WEBVTT - The Author Of The Book: Inventing Bitcoin 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.680 So the big question is this, how do investors like 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.800 us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly, 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.840 the right people that give us the tools and information 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:19.000 we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success. 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.360 That is the question, and this podcast will give us 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.479 the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:27.520 this started. Go and welcome to another episode of the 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:30.680 Market Disruptors podcast. Today, I'm sitting down with Jon Prinzer. 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.239 He has the author of the new book Inventing Bitcoin, 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:35.559 and we had such a great conversation. He comes from 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.040 a technology background and it was interesting to get his 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:40.720 take as to how he learned about bitcoin and what 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.680 compelled him to write this book. We get into how 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.360 new people should be looking at the market, how they 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:48.720 should be looking at bitcoin, the technology, and then we 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:51.080 dig into the technology and talk about a lot of 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.400 things like the consensus, UH, the security, and so many 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:57.080 other good things. It's a great conversation I really enjoyed, 0:00:57.120 --> 0:00:59.400 so let's go ahead just jump right into it. So 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.320 welcome onto the show. Thanks Market Things for having me on. 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:05.720 It's a great pleasure. Yeah. I love reading books. I 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.480 read a ton of books. I love reading books about bitcoin. 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:10.760 And so this was it was a nice addition to 0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:13.560 the collection. For those that haven't seen it or don't 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:14.840 know who you are, why don't you just give us, 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:16.920 like a little background on on who you are, what 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:19.080 you've been doing, and how you got to this point 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:23.520 of writing the book. Sure, So I've basically been involved 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.480 in technology for the last twenty years. My background has 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:30.480 been in early stage startups. UM. I myself am an 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:33.480 immigrants from former Soviet unions, so I came to the 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:38.319 States with my parents UM, and so I basically spent 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.760 my my childhood growing up learning about computers and and 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:45.360 got into startups. UM it's built a few sort of 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.440 smaller startups. I wasn't involved in an early stage engineer. 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:52.080 And then in twelve UM was involved in the starting 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:54.760 of reverb dot com, which is kind of the last 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.720 thing that I was involved with before I get into bitcoin. UM. 0:01:57.880 --> 0:02:00.600 Reverb was a marketplace where people to buy and sell 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:03.240 music gear and became sort of the number one destination 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:07.480 for musicians. So from eighteen I was the CTO there, 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.840 the chief technology officer, building out the tech team and 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.959 building out the technology UH and the infrastructure, and Reaver 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.280 grew to be about a half a billion dollar in 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:20.200 sales company and just recently was sold to et S, 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:22.960 So very exciting. Um, there was a lot of fun. 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.560 I had a lot of fun doing that. But throughout 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.880 my time in the last couple of years, I started 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:33.720 really sort of falling down the bitcoin rabbit hole. And uh, 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.960 I actually decided to leave Reverb. Even though I really 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.040 loved my job and I loved my team and it 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.480 was a super exciting company, I decided that I wanted 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.280 to focus on bitcoin full time because I just couldn't. 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.120 I couldn't have a job, you know, building a company 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.120 and being involved bit quoin at the same time. I 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:52.240 feel like it's a very um It's something that really 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.040 sucks you in, and once you get into it, it 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:55.880 just felt like it was the most important thing I 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.239 could be doing. UM. So I decided to leave and 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:02.080 focus on bitcoin. Uh. And So I actually heard about 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.160 bitcoin back in the day inn I read about it 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.840 and slash Dot, and um, I didn't know what it was. 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.160 I never really bothered its researcher or understand it. I 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.320 actually did end up buying some around thirty dollars in 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.400 eleven and then I watched that thirty dollar investment that 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.000 was the top of that bubble, by the way, thirty 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:23.519 dollars at the top of the bubble. UM, I watched 0:03:23.520 --> 0:03:26.280 it go down to about two dollars and essentially just 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:28.760 forgot about it. I think I sold at the bottom 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:31.480 UM or lost my keys, I'm not really sure, and 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.000 then basically forgot about it. It was a mount gas 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:38.000 about places everybody knows m mont gx UM later became 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:42.760 until disaster was hacked or who knows what. Um so anyway, 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:45.480 basically forgot about the bitcoin for a couple of years, 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:49.680 was focusing on startups. Heard it about again again. It 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:52.440 was another media hype cycle we had, you know, a 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.440 thousand dollars was hit and everybody was talking about it. 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:57.640 So I bought them again and again didn't research it 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.240 at all, which is really embarrassing now for this second 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:02.200 time having heard of it and not really understood what 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:04.800 it was UM and again saw I go down from 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.680 a thousand to like, you know, three two hundred level, 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:11.080 and basically UM again was like, okay, so fool me twice, 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.960 you know, shame on me. Forget about it and sort 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:16.400 of focused on my startups and UM. It wasn't really 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:22.240 until until I started really learning about it again. And 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.040 it was my cousin actually, who was working for Microsoft too, 0:04:26.520 --> 0:04:28.960 UM was was working at my shoft blockchain strategy, came 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.520 to me and told me about ethereum, and I started 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.600 looking at ethereum and researching it and sort of I 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.320 thought it was pretty interesting, um, and then realized that 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:39.880 there was this connection between ethereum and bitcoin, and the 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:41.520 light bulb went off in my head and I started 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.120 sort of researching that side of things and just completely 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:46.800 fell down the bitcoin rabbit hole and realized that this 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.160 was the most important thing, um, possibly the most important 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:53.560 invention of my lifetime for sure, um after the Internet 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:57.480 force um and the Web, but something that I really 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:03.240 wanted to be involved in and helping bring to the world. Yeah. Wow, Yeah, 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.920 she fool you twice, right, chame on you. Well, but 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.719 you're butcher, battle hardened and it gives you that perspective 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:13.440 that you need now. So UM, that's good. Yeah. UM, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.960 I'm curious. So you said, uh, you know, you said 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:20.440 that it was the most important invention that you've seen 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.320 since the Internet. Why is that? Why do you think 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:27.240 it's the most important invention? Well, so it's interesting because 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.600 my background you know, having come from the former Soviet Union. UM, 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.960 I actually was sort of living in a country that 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:38.280 experienced the exact problems a bitcoin is purported to solve. Um. 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.600 So for a lot of people who are maybe you know, 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.000 in the United States or a pretty sort of like 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:46.120 first World regulated type of economy, they don't really see 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.680 the value of bitcoin right away. Um, for them, it's 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.480 it's it's harder sell. For me, it was pretty obvious. One. Um, 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:55.119 in the former Soviet Union, the government had complete control 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.760 over the economy. Prices were fixed, um, all that kind 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:00.760 of stuff. But also, um, you were not allowed to 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.040 own any foreign currency. So if you wanted to own 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.920 you as dollars, that was legal was considered speculation. A 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.680 speculation was legal, So you had no way of storing 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:13.320 your wealth. And something that wasn't basically under complete control 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.279 of the government and was constantly being devalued, the Ruble. 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:19.719 Soviet Ruble went through devaluations of factors of a hundred 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:23.320 and a thousand multiple times throughout his lifetime. Ah, it 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:25.640 was you know, there's shortages of goods everywhere, There's lots 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.600 and lots of problems, So what does that look like? 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.000 So that you're you're the ruble is the currency that 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.200 you had at the time. You're devaluing it, which we 0:06:34.320 --> 0:06:37.119 hear about devaluing all the time. So basically they're taking 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:40.320 the value out right, the value they're they're essentially printing 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.200 more and more of it in order to quote unquote 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:45.680 fund you know, social programs. But if you look at 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:47.640 like you know, if you Wikipedia the history of the ruble, 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:49.960 you'll see like at some point, you know, they Chad 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:51.720 they issued a ne rouble because the old one was 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.080 so inflated where people were you had had to carry 0:06:55.120 --> 0:06:56.920 to thousand, a hundred thousand rubles all of a suddenly 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.920 chopped up. Zeros issued a new rouble, trying to create 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.600 you know, sort of price stability, but it's it's not 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:07.080 possible to create price stability because prices are really set 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:11.160 by market participants, and when the government's interferes and the 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:14.880 pricing mechanism, it doesn't really let the courtesy to his job, 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.200 and so over time, people whose faith in and becomes 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:19.520 a problem. Yeah, that's a it's it's just a it's 0:07:19.560 --> 0:07:22.320 really fascinating to talk to someone who has that perspective 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:24.240 that's living in it. As you said, right, A lot 0:07:24.320 --> 0:07:26.240 of people in the United States, which is the majority 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:28.320 of the market that I that I talked to, Um, 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:29.960 we do get caught up in there, or a lot 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:31.920 of people get caught up in this kind of vision 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:34.640 where like, oh the dollar strong, the dollar this, but 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.120 in other countries they see the value as you said. 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.880 But I'm just curious, like having kind of witnessed that firsthand, 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.280 like what does that look like to see your currency 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:48.200 being devalued? Like for example, Um, there was a book 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:50.440 that was written about kind of like a biography about 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:52.640 some of the people that lived through UH in Germany. 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.920 Why our Germany when it happened? And they said that, Um, 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:58.760 they said that they thought when what they didn't really 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.920 think of their currency at losing value. They just saw 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:07.120 like other currencies were stronger and that connection. How was 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.320 how what was your perspective on it? I mean for me, 0:08:09.800 --> 0:08:11.200 you know, to be clear, I was a kid. I 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.280 was seven years old when I was in Russia, and 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:15.520 so most of what I know is through my parents 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.480 stories and through research. Um. What I do remember, though, 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:19.960 is that we had to stand in line for goods, 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:22.920 doing basic stuff like bread or whatever. I mean, you 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:25.120 had shortages of goods everywhere, and people were just like 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:27.720 getting in line. You saw a line somewhere, you just did. 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:29.080 You stood in it. You didn't know what they were 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.240 giving out, but you stood in and you got whatever 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:32.800 they gave you, and then you try to trade it 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.839 for other stuff. Um So that the value of the 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.800 currency wasn't even so much an issue because basically there 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:42.280 was nothing to you could buy with it anyway. Um So, 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:44.640 what what that really meant is the government was trying 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.760 to um control the entire economy and reallocate resources and 0:08:47.840 --> 0:08:49.640 say we want this much bread, and we want this 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.160 much milk, and this is the price for an apartment, 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.560 you know, and all that kind of stuff screwed up 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:57.559 the market so badly that there were shortages everywhere. UM So, 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.080 you're seven years old and you're leaving that. So at 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.160 that time, seven years old, you're pretty young. You're not 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.040 really getting it, but you have the visions of that. 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.240 As you said, I'm sure you've heard the stories from 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:10.480 your family and whatnot. Like you said, you've researched it. Um. 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.880 I mean, it's it's pretty it's it's a pretty big impact. 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:15.520 I mean a lot of what we learned up until 0:09:15.600 --> 0:09:18.320 seven is done through like hypnosis, right, we learned through 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.240 what we see. Um. So I'm sure that had to 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:24.520 leave an impression. Um. But were you interested in like 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.160 economics and how money works at all kind of growing 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.959 up or was it not until you got down the 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:33.720 bitcoin rabbit hole that you started to think about it? Yeah, 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.160 I mean really, it wasn't until very recently because I 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:39.000 sort of I grew up. I had a happy childhood 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:40.880 here in America. You know, we had a nice life. 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.160 We came in as immigrants. We we came in with 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:45.599 very little. Um. That's one of the interesting things that 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:48.200 I learned about asking my appearance about it is when 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.319 we left Russia, they basically exchanged only one dred dollars 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:54.640 worth of currency for person like gu's how much we 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:57.959 were able to take at the government's exchange rate. Because, 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.280 like I said, the ruble it wasn't worth anything on street. 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.640 Nobody actually wanted it. So the government gave us a 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:05.760 hundred dollars worth of currency, and then we left, you know, 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:07.880 the Russia with four hundred dollars in our project, with 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:10.719 the family of four. We came here, and you know, 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:13.679 I grew up, you know, with with computers and my 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:15.480 dad buying me a computer when when I was eight, 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:17.480 and I started learning all that stuff. So I didn't 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:20.559 think about sort of Russia until much later, which was 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.559 when I get into bitcoin, and I started realizing that 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:28.200 all these things that bitcoin was claiming, like one, uh, 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.160 the government cannot interfere in the issues of this money 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.240 to nobody can take it from you, right, you can. 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.079 You can store your wealth and you can take it 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.800 with you. It's portable, it's not seasible. Like these things 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.320 turned those wheels in my head, and I started thinking 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.600 back to how it was when we were left Russia 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:45.440 and I asked my parents about it, and he told 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:46.880 me these stories about how much we were able to 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.240 keep and all this kind of stuff, and I was like, wow, 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.679 this is this is exactly why bitcoin needs to exist, right, 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.320 we need to prevent these these disasters, and we need 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.079 to allow people to put a check on their governments 0:10:58.120 --> 0:11:02.920 from doing crazy things like this. Yeah. So, um, I'm curious. Uh, 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.480 I mean what you're saying, right, what bitcoin is censorship resistant, immutable, right, 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:11.840 not seizable, non inflatable. Um, it's revolutionary, right, I mean 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.200 this potentially has the ability to save hundreds of millions 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.640 of people that live in these oppressive regimes, but people 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:21.319 in the United States still don't get why that's important. Um, 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.199 so I like, I like to think about the why. 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:25.959 I'm curious. As you've talked to your parents, I'm sure 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:27.680 you have right, and I talked to them about bitcoining 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.280 obviously wrote the book. Um do they seem to get 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.120 it sooner or easier than a lot of people maybe 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.240 that are your age, that are in the United States. 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.079 I think so, yeah. I mean my dad is also 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.319 a computer person, so for him, he also sees it 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:43.480 as a technology, and that's kind of how I approach 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.160 it a first, explaining that this is a new type 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.240 of system that doesn't have anybody in charge, and it's 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:51.319 a very interesting innovation in that sense where there's a 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.400 bunch of computers that are coordinating and there's nobody that's 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.319 telling them what to do. They're just all enforcing the 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:59.080 rules of bitcoin by themselves, and that that was interesting 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.439 to him. But I do think that they see the 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:05.760 value uh quicker because and so do any really any immigrants, 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.880 let's come from from a place like Soviet Soviet Union, 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.000 They see that value quicker because they understand what it's 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.720 like to live in a regime which has absolute economic 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:20.080 control um and basically oppresses its people through the economic system. Right, 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.800 that's not something that's happening in America. Even though a 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.800 lot of American bitcoiners are sort of focused on the 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.040 dollar losing its value over time and inflation and stuff 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.320 like that. That's all true, but it's very very slow, right, 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:34.600 And in the United States that process is so slow 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:36.199 that it's hard for you to see a day to 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.599 day Whereas if you come from UM, a place that 0:12:38.679 --> 0:12:41.440 really had a bad economic system, you you have seen 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.040 it happen before your eyes. You've seen the shortages, you've 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:46.679 seen the currency the value, You've seen this kind of stuff. 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.680 So it's definitely easier to get from from that perspective. Yeah, 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:51.959 I think you know, with with with the u SSR 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.640 or or we see in venezuel Argentina and and then 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.080 compared to United States, like you said, it's happening slowly, 0:12:57.720 --> 0:12:59.920 so it's hard to see it. But as we've seen 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.400 in Venezuela and Argentina and back to the USSR, I 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:08.439 think it happens slowly and then it happens fast. It's 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:11.080 like you're not it's happening slowly, you're not really paying attention, 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.320 but then once it starts happening, it's like it's almost 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:16.439 too late. Um. But I was curious, you know, just because, 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.240 like I think for me, and you wrote the book, 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:22.400 so I'm sure you've grappled with this. But bitcoin is 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:26.360 hard for most people to understand because it's multifaceted, right, 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:28.880 So there is the technology piece, there's the money piece, 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:32.400 there's the privacy piece, the like there's all these different pieces. 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:36.719 There's philosophy and all these things, um and so um. 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.080 But at the end of the day, it always seems 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:43.240 to come down to why, Like why should I care? Like, okay, 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.480 so it's like a technological revelation, innovation, but why why 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:50.200 do I need something that can do that? But when 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:52.720 you've just come from Russia and had your life taken 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:54.520 from you all of a sudden, you're like, I know 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.280 exactly why I need that. So that's why I was 0:13:57.320 --> 0:14:01.880 just curious about that. Um, definitely, Yeah, it's it's that 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.360 was for me. I almost worked back to the why 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.719 because when I came into the bitcoin, I came in 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:08.680 from such a tech angle where I was like, wow, 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.720 this is such a cool idea just from a technology standpoint, 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.600 and then I started researching it and then I started 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:16.480 like sort of getting red pilled in all the economic 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.520 aspects of it. And that's something that I never really questioned, 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.960 you know, like what is money? Right? Like money? Is 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.240 this the stuff that the government prints? And like I 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.520 use it, it's fine, um. And then I get into bitcoin, 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.080 and all of a sudden, there's all these deeper questions 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.240 to be asked, like well, why does the government get 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:35.320 to print money? Is that a good thing that they 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.280 get to do that? Um? Has that been abused in 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:40.760 some fashion? And like when you get to those wise, 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:43.760 all of a sudden, you realize that we do have problems. 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:47.040 And these problems are not obvious to the everyday person 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.200 who's just like using their money and generally work, especially 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.880 in America or Canada or any kind of you know, 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.880 even in Europe, like largely speaking, people don't see a 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.080 day to day But then you get into the wise 0:14:58.120 --> 0:14:59.800 of this, and then you see like the Equifax tack, 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.000 see people losing their identity information, and you see China 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.880 and you see the sort of the talentari and control 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:09.360 they have over over spending that how people are spending 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:12.040 their currency and then watching what people are doing, it's 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.120 like scary stuff and you start to see that, um, 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.320 that we're not living in the same financial system that 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.720 we were living in even fifty years ago, even twenty 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:25.400 five years ago. We're digitizing extremely rapidly, and that digitization, 0:15:25.600 --> 0:15:28.480 like the money everywhere is going digital. Right, there's no 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.080 doubt in my mind that that's happening. Um, it's going 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.680 to happen within our lifetimes for sure, maybe a hundred 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:36.680 percent or maybe, but it will be good enough as 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.920 a right. And once that happens, you're you have to 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:44.600 then realize, Okay, do we want money that's completely controllable 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:46.600 at the press of a button, where somebody can go 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.200 and print more of it or take it away from 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:50.200 you or shut down your account because you're, you know, 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:52.360 an enemy of the state. Do we want that to 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:54.760 live in that society? Or do you want to live 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.000 in a free society? And that's why I think bitcoin 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.760 is the most important invention of this of this century, 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.440 because it literally is the thing that can stop that 0:16:03.560 --> 0:16:06.080 from happening, and stop this process from happening and give 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:10.600 us a digital money that's actually free from totalitary and control. Yeah, 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.560 what's awesome with bitcoin is that as you as you 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.680 mentioned red pilled, So that's a that's a reference to 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:18.560 the movie The Matrix, which I just heard they're making 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:21.240 a new matrix or I think, but it's a reference 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.800 to that where um, he was offered, hey, red pill 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:25.680 to see what's really going on or blue pill to 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.680 stay in your dream, right, and so um, red pilled 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:30.160 is a term that we use where like your eyes 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.080 are opened. And what's amazing with bitcoin is um, as 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.000 you said, red pilled. You you get your eyes open 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.640 all of a sudden you're started to ask questions is 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:40.400 money like as you said, all those things that you 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.680 run down and then even the question as to like philosophy, 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.360 like why is privacy even important? Like a lot of 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.120 people don't even think why I don't need privacy? What 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.880 I have nothing to hide? Right, But yeah, you have 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.080 to understand like philosophically what privacy means to a to 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:00.400 a society. Right. So, Uh, it's it's awesome him, it's 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:04.640 awesome to see that. Um. Jumping into the technology side 0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:07.719 of it, Um, maybe if you want to talk about uh, 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:09.399 because I know there's a lot of people that have 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.720 covered the why so we have you know, bitcoin standard 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.080 or what what Andrea's and topless is done, which I think, 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.679 by the way you said, Andreas kind of shifted your 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.720 mind a little bit, right, Yeah, Andreas was definitely like 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.439 my gateway into bitcoin. I think for several months they 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:26.200 had like a bene where I watched pretty much every 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:29.800 Andreas video I could find on YouTube, and uh, he 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.640 what I really like about him is he actually does 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.320 cover the y really well as well as the technical side. 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:39.040 And um, I actually watched all the videos before I 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.879 even looked at the Bitcoin white paper and really understood 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.119 sort of like the code side of things and what 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.159 the nuts and bolts are because he does that's such 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:47.919 a good job explaining it. I felt like I already 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.280 knew advice time I get into the primary sources. So yeah, 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.679 I always recommend a videos to people who are new. 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.960 So let's get into the technology side, because your book 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.480 kind of covers that part, right, I mean, is is 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:01.800 that what you're kind of intending is to like kind 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.040 of explain it better so like people understand how it 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.159 works and why it's like unique and important. Yeah, I 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.959 mean to me, when I because I'm a tech person, Um, 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.120 when I sort of started in the space. I saw 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:15.760 a THEORYUM, and it was a very shiny and well 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.680 marketed piece of technology, and it looked like it was 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.520 friendly for developers and and so I easily understood what 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:24.639 they were trying to do. Whereas with bitcoin, I think, UM, 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:27.800 a lot of the actual innovation isn't for state technological, 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.800 but it is economic UM, and you have to understand 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:34.120 the economics. Definitely, if understand sort of like why they're 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.800 trying to do these things, but um, in order to 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.920 understand the claims that bitcoin makes, such as that it's 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:42.440 scarce and there's only twenty one million of them, it 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:44.959 can't be seized from you, there's nobody in charge of visuals. 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:47.960 You have to understand the nuts and bolts of the technology. 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.359 And I found that when getting into this book that 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.119 most of the resources out there were very They were 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.320 either highly economic, high level, or they were super deep 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.719 on the technology. Like Andreas is a book. I mean 0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:01.200 it gets into code, it gets into really really deep stuff, 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:04.159 and that's great if you want to be a developer UM, 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:05.800 but I think for the everyday person that would be 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:09.199 useful for them to understand how bitcoin works without actually 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.040 getting so deep and admired into sort of the code 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:14.680 that side of things. So I think in your book 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:16.680