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Speaker 1: So the big question is this, how do investors like

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Speaker 1: us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly,

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Speaker 1: the right people that give us the tools and information

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Speaker 1: we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success.

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Speaker 1: That is the question, and this podcast will give us

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Speaker 1: the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get

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Speaker 1: this started. Go and welcome to another episode of the

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Speaker 1: Market Disruptors podcast. Today, I'm sitting down with Jon Prinzer.

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Speaker 1: He has the author of the new book Inventing Bitcoin,

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Speaker 1: and we had such a great conversation. He comes from

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Speaker 1: a technology background and it was interesting to get his

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Speaker 1: take as to how he learned about bitcoin and what

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Speaker 1: compelled him to write this book. We get into how

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Speaker 1: new people should be looking at the market, how they

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Speaker 1: should be looking at bitcoin, the technology, and then we

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Speaker 1: dig into the technology and talk about a lot of

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Speaker 1: things like the consensus, UH, the security, and so many

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Speaker 1: other good things. It's a great conversation I really enjoyed,

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Speaker 1: so let's go ahead just jump right into it. So

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Speaker 1: welcome onto the show. Thanks Market Things for having me on.

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Speaker 1: It's a great pleasure. Yeah. I love reading books. I

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Speaker 1: read a ton of books. I love reading books about bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: And so this was it was a nice addition to

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Speaker 1: the collection. For those that haven't seen it or don't

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Speaker 1: know who you are, why don't you just give us,

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Speaker 1: like a little background on on who you are, what

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Speaker 1: you've been doing, and how you got to this point

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Speaker 1: of writing the book. Sure, So I've basically been involved

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Speaker 1: in technology for the last twenty years. My background has

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Speaker 1: been in early stage startups. UM. I myself am an

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Speaker 1: immigrants from former Soviet unions, so I came to the

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Speaker 1: States with my parents UM, and so I basically spent

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Speaker 1: my my childhood growing up learning about computers and and

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Speaker 1: got into startups. UM it's built a few sort of

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Speaker 1: smaller startups. I wasn't involved in an early stage engineer.

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Speaker 1: And then in twelve UM was involved in the starting

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Speaker 1: of reverb dot com, which is kind of the last

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Speaker 1: thing that I was involved with before I get into bitcoin. UM.

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Speaker 1: Reverb was a marketplace where people to buy and sell

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Speaker 1: music gear and became sort of the number one destination

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Speaker 1: for musicians. So from eighteen I was the CTO there,

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Speaker 1: the chief technology officer, building out the tech team and

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Speaker 1: building out the technology UH and the infrastructure, and Reaver

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Speaker 1: grew to be about a half a billion dollar in

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Speaker 1: sales company and just recently was sold to et S,

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Speaker 1: So very exciting. Um, there was a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of fun doing that. But throughout

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Speaker 1: my time in the last couple of years, I started

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Speaker 1: really sort of falling down the bitcoin rabbit hole. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I actually decided to leave Reverb. Even though I really

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Speaker 1: loved my job and I loved my team and it

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Speaker 1: was a super exciting company, I decided that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to focus on bitcoin full time because I just couldn't.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't have a job, you know, building a company

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Speaker 1: and being involved bit quoin at the same time. I

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Speaker 1: feel like it's a very um It's something that really

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Speaker 1: sucks you in, and once you get into it, it

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Speaker 1: just felt like it was the most important thing I

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Speaker 1: could be doing. UM. So I decided to leave and

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Speaker 1: focus on bitcoin. Uh. And So I actually heard about

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Speaker 1: bitcoin back in the day inn I read about it

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Speaker 1: and slash Dot, and um, I didn't know what it was.

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Speaker 1: I never really bothered its researcher or understand it. I

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Speaker 1: actually did end up buying some around thirty dollars in

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Speaker 1: eleven and then I watched that thirty dollar investment that

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Speaker 1: was the top of that bubble, by the way, thirty

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Speaker 1: dollars at the top of the bubble. UM, I watched

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Speaker 1: it go down to about two dollars and essentially just

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Speaker 1: forgot about it. I think I sold at the bottom

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Speaker 1: UM or lost my keys, I'm not really sure, and

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Speaker 1: then basically forgot about it. It was a mount gas

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Speaker 1: about places everybody knows m mont gx UM later became

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Speaker 1: until disaster was hacked or who knows what. Um so anyway,

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Speaker 1: basically forgot about the bitcoin for a couple of years,

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Speaker 1: was focusing on startups. Heard it about again again. It

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Speaker 1: was another media hype cycle we had, you know, a

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars was hit and everybody was talking about it.

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Speaker 1: So I bought them again and again didn't research it

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Speaker 1: at all, which is really embarrassing now for this second

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Speaker 1: time having heard of it and not really understood what

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Speaker 1: it was UM and again saw I go down from

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Speaker 1: a thousand to like, you know, three two hundred level,

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Speaker 1: and basically UM again was like, okay, so fool me twice,

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Speaker 1: you know, shame on me. Forget about it and sort

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Speaker 1: of focused on my startups and UM. It wasn't really

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Speaker 1: until until I started really learning about it again. And

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Speaker 1: it was my cousin actually, who was working for Microsoft too,

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Speaker 1: UM was was working at my shoft blockchain strategy, came

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Speaker 1: to me and told me about ethereum, and I started

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Speaker 1: looking at ethereum and researching it and sort of I

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Speaker 1: thought it was pretty interesting, um, and then realized that

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Speaker 1: there was this connection between ethereum and bitcoin, and the

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Speaker 1: light bulb went off in my head and I started

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Speaker 1: sort of researching that side of things and just completely

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Speaker 1: fell down the bitcoin rabbit hole and realized that this

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Speaker 1: was the most important thing, um, possibly the most important

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Speaker 1: invention of my lifetime for sure, um after the Internet

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Speaker 1: force um and the Web, but something that I really

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Speaker 1: wanted to be involved in and helping bring to the world. Yeah. Wow, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: she fool you twice, right, chame on you. Well, but

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Speaker 1: you're butcher, battle hardened and it gives you that perspective

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Speaker 1: that you need now. So UM, that's good. Yeah. UM,

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Speaker 1: I'm curious. So you said, uh, you know, you said

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Speaker 1: that it was the most important invention that you've seen

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Speaker 1: since the Internet. Why is that? Why do you think

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Speaker 1: it's the most important invention? Well, so it's interesting because

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Speaker 1: my background you know, having come from the former Soviet Union. UM,

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Speaker 1: I actually was sort of living in a country that

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Speaker 1: experienced the exact problems a bitcoin is purported to solve. Um.

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Speaker 1: So for a lot of people who are maybe you know,

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Speaker 1: in the United States or a pretty sort of like

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Speaker 1: first World regulated type of economy, they don't really see

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Speaker 1: the value of bitcoin right away. Um, for them, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's harder sell. For me, it was pretty obvious. One. Um,

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Speaker 1: in the former Soviet Union, the government had complete control

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Speaker 1: over the economy. Prices were fixed, um, all that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. But also, um, you were not allowed to

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Speaker 1: own any foreign currency. So if you wanted to own

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Speaker 1: you as dollars, that was legal was considered speculation. A

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Speaker 1: speculation was legal, So you had no way of storing

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Speaker 1: your wealth. And something that wasn't basically under complete control

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Speaker 1: of the government and was constantly being devalued, the Ruble.

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Speaker 1: Soviet Ruble went through devaluations of factors of a hundred

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Speaker 1: and a thousand multiple times throughout his lifetime. Ah, it

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Speaker 1: was you know, there's shortages of goods everywhere, There's lots

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Speaker 1: and lots of problems, So what does that look like?

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Speaker 1: So that you're you're the ruble is the currency that

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Speaker 1: you had at the time. You're devaluing it, which we

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Speaker 1: hear about devaluing all the time. So basically they're taking

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Speaker 1: the value out right, the value they're they're essentially printing

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Speaker 1: more and more of it in order to quote unquote

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Speaker 1: fund you know, social programs. But if you look at

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Speaker 1: like you know, if you Wikipedia the history of the ruble,

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Speaker 1: you'll see like at some point, you know, they Chad

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Speaker 1: they issued a ne rouble because the old one was

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Speaker 1: so inflated where people were you had had to carry

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Speaker 1: to thousand, a hundred thousand rubles all of a suddenly

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Speaker 1: chopped up. Zeros issued a new rouble, trying to create

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of price stability, but it's it's not

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Speaker 1: possible to create price stability because prices are really set

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Speaker 1: by market participants, and when the government's interferes and the

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Speaker 1: pricing mechanism, it doesn't really let the courtesy to his job,

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Speaker 1: and so over time, people whose faith in and becomes

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Speaker 1: a problem. Yeah, that's a it's it's just a it's

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Speaker 1: really fascinating to talk to someone who has that perspective

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Speaker 1: that's living in it. As you said, right, A lot

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Speaker 1: of people in the United States, which is the majority

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Speaker 1: of the market that I that I talked to, Um,

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Speaker 1: we do get caught up in there, or a lot

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Speaker 1: of people get caught up in this kind of vision

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Speaker 1: where like, oh the dollar strong, the dollar this, but

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Speaker 1: in other countries they see the value as you said.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just curious, like having kind of witnessed that firsthand,

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Speaker 1: like what does that look like to see your currency

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Speaker 1: being devalued? Like for example, Um, there was a book

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Speaker 1: that was written about kind of like a biography about

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Speaker 1: some of the people that lived through UH in Germany.

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Speaker 1: Why our Germany when it happened? And they said that, Um,

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Speaker 1: they said that they thought when what they didn't really

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Speaker 1: think of their currency at losing value. They just saw

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Speaker 1: like other currencies were stronger and that connection. How was

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Speaker 1: how what was your perspective on it? I mean for me,

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Speaker 1: you know, to be clear, I was a kid. I

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Speaker 1: was seven years old when I was in Russia, and

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Speaker 1: so most of what I know is through my parents

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Speaker 1: stories and through research. Um. What I do remember, though,

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Speaker 1: is that we had to stand in line for goods,

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Speaker 1: doing basic stuff like bread or whatever. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: had shortages of goods everywhere, and people were just like

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Speaker 1: getting in line. You saw a line somewhere, you just did.

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Speaker 1: You stood in it. You didn't know what they were

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Speaker 1: giving out, but you stood in and you got whatever

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Speaker 1: they gave you, and then you try to trade it

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Speaker 1: for other stuff. Um So that the value of the

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Speaker 1: currency wasn't even so much an issue because basically there

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Speaker 1: was nothing to you could buy with it anyway. Um So,

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Speaker 1: what what that really meant is the government was trying

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Speaker 1: to um control the entire economy and reallocate resources and

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Speaker 1: say we want this much bread, and we want this

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Speaker 1: much milk, and this is the price for an apartment,

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Speaker 1: you know, and all that kind of stuff screwed up

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Speaker 1: the market so badly that there were shortages everywhere. UM So,

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Speaker 1: you're seven years old and you're leaving that. So at

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Speaker 1: that time, seven years old, you're pretty young. You're not

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Speaker 1: really getting it, but you have the visions of that.

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Speaker 1: As you said, I'm sure you've heard the stories from

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Speaker 1: your family and whatnot. Like you said, you've researched it. Um.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's pretty it's it's a pretty big impact.

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Speaker 1: I mean a lot of what we learned up until

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Speaker 1: seven is done through like hypnosis, right, we learned through

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Speaker 1: what we see. Um. So I'm sure that had to

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Speaker 1: leave an impression. Um. But were you interested in like

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Speaker 1: economics and how money works at all kind of growing

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Speaker 1: up or was it not until you got down the

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Speaker 1: bitcoin rabbit hole that you started to think about it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean really, it wasn't until very recently because I

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Speaker 1: sort of I grew up. I had a happy childhood

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Speaker 1: here in America. You know, we had a nice life.

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Speaker 1: We came in as immigrants. We we came in with

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Speaker 1: very little. Um. That's one of the interesting things that

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Speaker 1: I learned about asking my appearance about it is when

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Speaker 1: we left Russia, they basically exchanged only one dred dollars

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Speaker 1: worth of currency for person like gu's how much we

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Speaker 1: were able to take at the government's exchange rate. Because,

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Speaker 1: like I said, the ruble it wasn't worth anything on street.

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Speaker 1: Nobody actually wanted it. So the government gave us a

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars worth of currency, and then we left, you know,

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Speaker 1: the Russia with four hundred dollars in our project, with

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Speaker 1: the family of four. We came here, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I grew up, you know, with with computers and my

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Speaker 1: dad buying me a computer when when I was eight,

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Speaker 1: and I started learning all that stuff. So I didn't

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Speaker 1: think about sort of Russia until much later, which was

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Speaker 1: when I get into bitcoin, and I started realizing that

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Speaker 1: all these things that bitcoin was claiming, like one, uh,

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Speaker 1: the government cannot interfere in the issues of this money

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Speaker 1: to nobody can take it from you, right, you can.

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Speaker 1: You can store your wealth and you can take it

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Speaker 1: with you. It's portable, it's not seasible. Like these things

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Speaker 1: turned those wheels in my head, and I started thinking

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Speaker 1: back to how it was when we were left Russia

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Speaker 1: and I asked my parents about it, and he told

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Speaker 1: me these stories about how much we were able to

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Speaker 1: keep and all this kind of stuff, and I was like, wow,

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Speaker 1: this is this is exactly why bitcoin needs to exist, right,

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Speaker 1: we need to prevent these these disasters, and we need

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Speaker 1: to allow people to put a check on their governments

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Speaker 1: from doing crazy things like this. Yeah. So, um, I'm curious. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I mean what you're saying, right, what bitcoin is censorship resistant, immutable, right,

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Speaker 1: not seizable, non inflatable. Um, it's revolutionary, right, I mean

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Speaker 1: this potentially has the ability to save hundreds of millions

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Speaker 1: of people that live in these oppressive regimes, but people

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Speaker 1: in the United States still don't get why that's important. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I like, I like to think about the why.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious. As you've talked to your parents, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you have right, and I talked to them about bitcoining

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Speaker 1: obviously wrote the book. Um do they seem to get

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Speaker 1: it sooner or easier than a lot of people maybe

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Speaker 1: that are your age, that are in the United States.

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Speaker 1: I think so, yeah. I mean my dad is also

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Speaker 1: a computer person, so for him, he also sees it

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Speaker 1: as a technology, and that's kind of how I approach

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Speaker 1: it a first, explaining that this is a new type

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Speaker 1: of system that doesn't have anybody in charge, and it's

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Speaker 1: a very interesting innovation in that sense where there's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of computers that are coordinating and there's nobody that's

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Speaker 1: telling them what to do. They're just all enforcing the

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Speaker 1: rules of bitcoin by themselves, and that that was interesting

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Speaker 1: to him. But I do think that they see the

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Speaker 1: value uh quicker because and so do any really any immigrants,

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Speaker 1: let's come from from a place like Soviet Soviet Union,

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Speaker 1: They see that value quicker because they understand what it's

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Speaker 1: like to live in a regime which has absolute economic

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Speaker 1: control um and basically oppresses its people through the economic system. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's not something that's happening in America. Even though a

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Speaker 1: lot of American bitcoiners are sort of focused on the

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Speaker 1: dollar losing its value over time and inflation and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. That's all true, but it's very very slow, right,

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Speaker 1: And in the United States that process is so slow

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Speaker 1: that it's hard for you to see a day to

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Speaker 1: day Whereas if you come from UM, a place that

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Speaker 1: really had a bad economic system, you you have seen

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Speaker 1: it happen before your eyes. You've seen the shortages, you've

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Speaker 1: seen the currency the value, You've seen this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: So it's definitely easier to get from from that perspective. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you know, with with with the u SSR

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Speaker 1: or or we see in venezuel Argentina and and then

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Speaker 1: compared to United States, like you said, it's happening slowly,

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Speaker 1: so it's hard to see it. But as we've seen

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Speaker 1: in Venezuela and Argentina and back to the USSR, I

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Speaker 1: think it happens slowly and then it happens fast. It's

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Speaker 1: like you're not it's happening slowly, you're not really paying attention,

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Speaker 1: but then once it starts happening, it's like it's almost

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Speaker 1: too late. Um. But I was curious, you know, just because,

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Speaker 1: like I think for me, and you wrote the book,

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Speaker 1: so I'm sure you've grappled with this. But bitcoin is

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Speaker 1: hard for most people to understand because it's multifaceted, right,

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Speaker 1: So there is the technology piece, there's the money piece,

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Speaker 1: there's the privacy piece, the like there's all these different pieces.

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Speaker 1: There's philosophy and all these things, um and so um.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, it always seems

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Speaker 1: to come down to why, Like why should I care? Like, okay,

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Speaker 1: so it's like a technological revelation, innovation, but why why

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Speaker 1: do I need something that can do that? But when

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Speaker 1: you've just come from Russia and had your life taken

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Speaker 1: from you all of a sudden, you're like, I know

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Speaker 1: exactly why I need that. So that's why I was

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Speaker 1: just curious about that. Um, definitely, Yeah, it's it's that

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Speaker 1: was for me. I almost worked back to the why

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Speaker 1: because when I came into the bitcoin, I came in

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Speaker 1: from such a tech angle where I was like, wow,

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Speaker 1: this is such a cool idea just from a technology standpoint,

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Speaker 1: and then I started researching it and then I started

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Speaker 1: like sort of getting red pilled in all the economic

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Speaker 1: aspects of it. And that's something that I never really questioned,

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Speaker 1: you know, like what is money? Right? Like money? Is

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Speaker 1: this the stuff that the government prints? And like I

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Speaker 1: use it, it's fine, um. And then I get into bitcoin,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, there's all these deeper questions

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Speaker 1: to be asked, like well, why does the government get

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Speaker 1: to print money? Is that a good thing that they

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Speaker 1: get to do that? Um? Has that been abused in

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Speaker 1: some fashion? And like when you get to those wise,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you realize that we do have problems.

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Speaker 1: And these problems are not obvious to the everyday person

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Speaker 1: who's just like using their money and generally work, especially

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Speaker 1: in America or Canada or any kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: even in Europe, like largely speaking, people don't see a

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Speaker 1: day to day But then you get into the wise

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Speaker 1: of this, and then you see like the Equifax tack,

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Speaker 1: see people losing their identity information, and you see China

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Speaker 1: and you see the sort of the talentari and control

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Speaker 1: they have over over spending that how people are spending

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Speaker 1: their currency and then watching what people are doing, it's

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Speaker 1: like scary stuff and you start to see that, um,

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Speaker 1: that we're not living in the same financial system that

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Speaker 1: we were living in even fifty years ago, even twenty

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Speaker 1: five years ago. We're digitizing extremely rapidly, and that digitization,

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Speaker 1: like the money everywhere is going digital. Right, there's no

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Speaker 1: doubt in my mind that that's happening. Um, it's going

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Speaker 1: to happen within our lifetimes for sure, maybe a hundred

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Speaker 1: percent or maybe, but it will be good enough as

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Speaker 1: a right. And once that happens, you're you have to

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Speaker 1: then realize, Okay, do we want money that's completely controllable

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Speaker 1: at the press of a button, where somebody can go

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Speaker 1: and print more of it or take it away from

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Speaker 1: you or shut down your account because you're, you know,

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Speaker 1: an enemy of the state. Do we want that to

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Speaker 1: live in that society? Or do you want to live

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Speaker 1: in a free society? And that's why I think bitcoin

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Speaker 1: is the most important invention of this of this century,

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Speaker 1: because it literally is the thing that can stop that

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Speaker 1: from happening, and stop this process from happening and give

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Speaker 1: us a digital money that's actually free from totalitary and control. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's awesome with bitcoin is that as you as you

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Speaker 1: mentioned red pilled, So that's a that's a reference to

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Speaker 1: the movie The Matrix, which I just heard they're making

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Speaker 1: a new matrix or I think, but it's a reference

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Speaker 1: to that where um, he was offered, hey, red pill

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Speaker 1: to see what's really going on or blue pill to

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Speaker 1: stay in your dream, right, and so um, red pilled

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Speaker 1: is a term that we use where like your eyes

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Speaker 1: are opened. And what's amazing with bitcoin is um, as

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Speaker 1: you said, red pilled. You you get your eyes open

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're started to ask questions is

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Speaker 1: money like as you said, all those things that you

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Speaker 1: run down and then even the question as to like philosophy,

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Speaker 1: like why is privacy even important? Like a lot of

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Speaker 1: people don't even think why I don't need privacy? What

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Speaker 1: I have nothing to hide? Right, But yeah, you have

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Speaker 1: to understand like philosophically what privacy means to a to

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Speaker 1: a society. Right. So, Uh, it's it's awesome him, it's

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Speaker 1: awesome to see that. Um. Jumping into the technology side

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Speaker 1: of it, Um, maybe if you want to talk about uh,

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Speaker 1: because I know there's a lot of people that have

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Speaker 1: covered the why so we have you know, bitcoin standard

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Speaker 1: or what what Andrea's and topless is done, which I think,

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Speaker 1: by the way you said, Andreas kind of shifted your

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Speaker 1: mind a little bit, right, Yeah, Andreas was definitely like

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Speaker 1: my gateway into bitcoin. I think for several months they

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Speaker 1: had like a bene where I watched pretty much every

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Speaker 1: Andreas video I could find on YouTube, and uh, he

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Speaker 1: what I really like about him is he actually does

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Speaker 1: cover the y really well as well as the technical side.

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Speaker 1: And um, I actually watched all the videos before I

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Speaker 1: even looked at the Bitcoin white paper and really understood

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Speaker 1: sort of like the code side of things and what

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Speaker 1: the nuts and bolts are because he does that's such

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Speaker 1: a good job explaining it. I felt like I already

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Speaker 1: knew advice time I get into the primary sources. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I always recommend a videos to people who are new.

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Speaker 1: So let's get into the technology side, because your book

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Speaker 1: kind of covers that part, right, I mean, is is

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Speaker 1: that what you're kind of intending is to like kind

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Speaker 1: of explain it better so like people understand how it

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Speaker 1: works and why it's like unique and important. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean to me, when I because I'm a tech person, Um,

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Speaker 1: when I sort of started in the space. I saw

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Speaker 1: a THEORYUM, and it was a very shiny and well

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Speaker 1: marketed piece of technology, and it looked like it was

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Speaker 1: friendly for developers and and so I easily understood what

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Speaker 1: they were trying to do. Whereas with bitcoin, I think, UM,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the actual innovation isn't for state technological,

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Speaker 1: but it is economic UM, and you have to understand

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Speaker 1: the economics. Definitely, if understand sort of like why they're

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Speaker 1: trying to do these things, but um, in order to

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Speaker 1: understand the claims that bitcoin makes, such as that it's

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Speaker 1: scarce and there's only twenty one million of them, it

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Speaker 1: can't be seized from you, there's nobody in charge of visuals.

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Speaker 1: You have to understand the nuts and bolts of the technology.

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Speaker 1: And I found that when getting into this book that

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Speaker 1: most of the resources out there were very They were

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Speaker 1: either highly economic, high level, or they were super deep

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Speaker 1: on the technology. Like Andreas is a book. I mean

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Speaker 1: it gets into code, it gets into really really deep stuff,

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Speaker 1: and that's great if you want to be a developer UM,

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Speaker 1: but I think for the everyday person that would be

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Speaker 1: useful for them to understand how bitcoin works without actually

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Speaker 1: getting so deep and admired into sort of the code

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Speaker 1: that side of things. So I think in your book

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Speaker 1: one of the points that you really made is like

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Speaker 1: the technological masterpiece or the big piece of the technology

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Speaker 1: of bitcoin is they solved away or or they solved trust.

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Speaker 1: And so I think with computer systems um that we've

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Speaker 1: had previous to bitcoin, we always have to trust a

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Speaker 1: database essentially controlled database to keep that ledger up to date.

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Speaker 1: And so Bitcoin has solved trust. Maybe you can just

408
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,959
Speaker 1: kind of talk about that. Yeah, So I think, um,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that we need to understand about

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Speaker 1: bitcoin is that we're we're creating a new banking system effectively. Right,

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Speaker 1: So in a traditional banking system, we have one central

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Speaker 1: entity that's the bank, and that bank uh is in charge.

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Speaker 1: Just to simplify, that bank is basically in charge of

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Speaker 1: issuing the money as well as transferring that money between

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Speaker 1: you know, point A and point B. Now, the actual

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00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,399
Speaker 1: banking system is much more complicated than one bank, but

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Speaker 1: nonetheless there's always some central party that's sort of doing

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Speaker 1: these transfers. So, um, what I talked about is how

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Speaker 1: do we go from a system where if I want

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Speaker 1: to move money from you know, Jhan to Mark that

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Speaker 1: I have to call my bank and say I'm yan

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Speaker 1: and moving Mark uh some money to Mark, and here's

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Speaker 1: my account number and so on. How do we move

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Speaker 1: from that system to a system where there's no central

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Speaker 1: person or a party to call. And the way that

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Speaker 1: we do that is we first have to give a

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Speaker 1: copy of that ledger, so that what the bank has

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Speaker 1: is essentially just a ledger with everybody's account balances and

429
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 1: and how much money is being moved from one point another.

430
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 1: We need to move that system to be owned by everybody,

431
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 1: essentially democratizing that sort of ledger. And so the first

432
00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,159
Speaker 1: thing we do is we give everybody a copy of it, right,

433
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,080
Speaker 1: And so that's pretty simple. Everybody can have a copy

434
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:55,880
Speaker 1: of the ledger. We don't need to have a bank anymore.

435
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 1: But then you start to get into an issue of well,

436
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,280
Speaker 1: if I want to move money, then instead of calling

437
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,320
Speaker 1: the bank, I'm going to basically tell everybody else who's

438
00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 1: got a ledger that I'm doing that, and everybody has

439
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,520
Speaker 1: to write that uh information into their ledger. And if

440
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 1: we have that kind of system, well, how can we

441
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,199
Speaker 1: actually trust that people are going to do the right thing?

442
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 1: How are they going to write the right information into

443
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 1: their ledgers, and who can we actually trust about the

444
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,639
Speaker 1: state of the world. And that is the that is

445
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,119
Speaker 1: the fundamental problem the bitcoin solves because prior to bitcoin,

446
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 1: there was no way for us to coordinate a bunch

447
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,840
Speaker 1: of computers or people or what have you that that

448
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,719
Speaker 1: where we didn't know who they were. Right, with Bitcoin,

449
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 1: we don't need to know who any of the participants are.

450
00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 1: We don't need to know, um, whether they're honest or

451
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,199
Speaker 1: malicious or what they're trying to do. We put our

452
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 1: faith in the algorithms. Or it's not even faith, it's mathematical.

453
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,959
Speaker 1: You know, it's mathematical, right. We we use mathematical algorithms

454
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: to make sure that um the information that's going into

455
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 1: the ledger is correct, and that is all done through

456
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 1: this kind of lottery process. So really the problem that's

457
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,159
Speaker 1: been solved, as you said in the book, is trust.

458
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 1: And so the whole world revolves around trust. You've talked

459
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 1: about like a new banking system, but really, if we

460
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 1: want to get into it, it's way bigger than that.

461
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 1: Um right. It's kind of like a movie with like

462
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: a drug deal, right, like give me the give the drugs, No,

463
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 1: give me the money, right, and they don't trust each

464
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 1: other even when they're face to face. But now that

465
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: the world is connected, you know, via the Internet, we

466
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: have this massive global trust problem and we've seen like

467
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: our institutions, Facebook and whatnot, we can't trust them, um

468
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: and so trust is breaking down, um and really so

469
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: so bitcoin is like a trust layer, right, like a

470
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: like a like a trust system. So maybe it's maybe

471
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,399
Speaker 1: maybe the money aspect is just the first killer application,

472
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: and then we'll see lots of other new ways that

473
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: trust is being used. Maybe through bitcoin, it could be.

474
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure yet. I mean, I think it's

475
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: it's hard to say because one of the things about

476
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 1: bitcoin that's interesting is that the whole security model of

477
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: bitcoin depends on bitcoin, the asset itself. Right. The way

478
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: that the bitcoin works is that miners, which are essentially

479
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: people that want to participate in maintaining this ledger for us,

480
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: they can participate freely. They don't have to ask any

481
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 1: way for permission. The way they do that is they

482
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: burn energy, and they burn electricity. When they burn that electricity,

483
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,959
Speaker 1: they play a lottery system, and that lottery rewards them

484
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: with with some bitcoin. So that lottery system, um, ensures

485
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 1: that that miners behave sort of honestly, because if they don't,

486
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 1: they do something that's malicious, then they will have burned

487
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: that electricity, they will have expended that that effort in mining,

488
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: and then their entries won't actually be written into the

489
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,959
Speaker 1: ledger because everybody else will reject them. So bitcoin as

490
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 1: a trust system, all of that, it's doings that's enforcing

491
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 1: that people, um spend energy to write to create bitcoins

492
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 1: and to write transactions into the bitcoin ledger. So that's

493
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: kind of the primary thing that's enforcing. Whether there's any

494
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: additional applications beyond money, it's hard to say. Um, there

495
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 1: may be other things that we can do with it,

496
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm skeptical right now. Um, because the asset,

497
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,520
Speaker 1: the bitcoin asset itself is so key to the actual

498
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,719
Speaker 1: security model. Well, it's definitely a mechanism to transfer that value.

499
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: I think it just goes into a bigger conversation of

500
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: what is money? Money is communication of value, um, and

501
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,640
Speaker 1: what and so what is value? Will values all types

502
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: of things, right, So, UM, anyway, you get into some

503
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: philosophical stuff there, but UM, so it does that, um,

504
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: And as you said, these miners are burning energy. They're

505
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: buying electricity, so they're having to spend the money, so

506
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: they have this economic uh, the skin in the game,

507
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 1: if you will, right, So they're they're having to spend

508
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: money on equipment to burn energy in order to produce

509
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: the bitcoin and transfer the bitcoin, and that's basically what

510
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: secures the network. Everyone's kind of economically incentivized to keep

511
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: it up. Yeah, I mean, the idea of bitcoin is

512
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: essentially like this. So there's a there's a lottery system.

513
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: We need to be able to create bitcoins. But we

514
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: can't just give that power to the government or to

515
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: some singularity, right, So the way that we do it

516
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 1: is we're distributing that effort to anybody in the world,

517
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: anybody at all who wants to do that can. The cost, though,

518
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: is that they have to burn electricity. And the reason

519
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: we have this cost is that this is kind of

520
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: one of the cool innovations of bitcoin, although it's not

521
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: technically bitcoins innovation. This is the idea of proof of

522
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: work um. It came before bitcoin um. But the idea

523
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: of proof of work is that we can have a

524
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 1: mathematical proof that you've us like you've achieved the statistically

525
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: improbable result. Right. So, so the way that you can

526
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: think about it is that we're playing a lottery. Okay,

527
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: everybody who wants to participate in bitcoin mining or security

528
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,159
Speaker 1: ex playing a lottery. They're tossing a random die and

529
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 1: they're rolling a die and they're generating really really large numbers,

530
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,680
Speaker 1: and they're taking transactional data, which is basically stuff that

531
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: people like people want to be moving bitcoin from point

532
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 1: to point B, and they're applying a mathematical function to

533
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: it called the hash function, which basically makes it into

534
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: one giant blob of numbers um. And this giant blob

535
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 1: has to land on a number line that's that's very

536
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: very large from zero to the number of atoms in

537
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 1: the universe roughly um. And they're trying to hit a

538
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 1: very very small space on that number line. And so

539
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: by doing this lottery and by actually finding that little

540
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: space on the number line, what they're doing is there's

541
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 1: essentially proving to everybody else that they've expended a certain

542
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: amount of energy, or that the probability of them hitting

543
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: that little space is so small. Without having expended in energy,

544
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: that would have been impossible. So when they do that,

545
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: they show that skin in the game, right, they show

546
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: that they've spent that energy, and they still have to

547
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: produce something that will that is considered a valid Bitcoin

548
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: transaction at the end of the day. Because even if

549
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: they spent all that time mining and then try to,

550
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: for example, give themselves a thousand bitcoins, everybody else will

551
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: look at that transaction and say that it's invalid. Right,

552
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: So every computer on the bitcoin network enforces those rules.

553
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: So if you wanted to cheat and sort of like

554
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: take over bitcoin there, it's very difficult. Right. First of all,

555
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 1: you would have to have more than half of the energy,

556
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: half of the mining energy um to yourself, right, so

557
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 1: you have to have we call it attack, you have

558
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:18,400
Speaker 1: to have just over half of the of the total

559
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: energy expenditure of bitcoin. And all that would let you

560
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: do is just mine bitcoin. You wouldn't actually be able

561
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: to uh violate the rules of bitcoin, because all the

562
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: other notes that receive your quote unquote money that you've

563
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 1: generated this this bitcoins, they would reject anything that doesn't

564
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: look like a real Bitcoin transaction. So all that would

565
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: let you do is effectively a sense or transactions to

566
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: prevent certain transactions from happening, or mine empty blocks and

567
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: prevents the bitcoin chain from moving forward. But you can't

568
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: really like cheat the system in a sense because the

569
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: the enforcement of the of the of the rules of

570
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: bitcoin is done by every note in the system, right

571
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: and the the This gets into a little bit of

572
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,920
Speaker 1: a philosophical piece. But money. For money to be good,

573
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: it has to have a true cost of capital. So

574
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: like with gold, for example, it costs me money to

575
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 1: get gold out of the ground. I have to spend

576
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: money in order to produce it, and I'm expending energy,

577
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: time capital to get that. The problem is, like with

578
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: the dollar or any other feet currency, is there's no

579
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: true cost of capital, and so it perverts the entire system.

580
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: There's no uh, there's no feedback loop, right, and so

581
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: bitcoin you have to spend money there and there's a

582
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: cost to produce that, and it keeps the system in check. Yeah,

583
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: I think that that. Um, you know, the government money

584
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: has really screwed up our perception of how money should work.

585
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: Because if if there was no government, right and we

586
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: were just you and me on an island or something,

587
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: and we had to pick something to use his money, um,

588
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: we probably wouldn't pick grass or tree leaves or something

589
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 1: that was extremely abundant, right, because then we would have

590
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: no real way of of transferring value with each other.

591
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: And and and being certain that you're not just gonna

592
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,239
Speaker 1: go and pick a bunch of grass, know, and all

593
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: of a sudden you're twice as riches me. Right, it

594
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: makes the money useless. So in order for for the

595
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: money to be valuable, it has to have a certain

596
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: amount of scarcity. It has to and and the scarcity

597
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: comes from cost to produce. Right. Um, if it was

598
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: air or grass or tree leaves, there's a very little

599
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: cost to produce it. It would be very easy for

600
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: for for us to keep making more of them. Um.

601
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: Whereas with something like gold or something like precious metals

602
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: that were historically used as money, or even things like

603
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 1: jewelry beads, uh, glass beads, shells that were found from

604
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: far away places, all these things had a certain cost

605
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 1: of production. Um. When we got into sort of government's

606
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: fiat money, all of a sudden that went away. Because

607
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: now we've replaced that cost of production with just trusting

608
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: the government that they're not going to produce more than

609
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: they should. Um. But as we've seen that trust has

610
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: been abused um time and time again. All over the world. Yeah,

611
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody trust the government not to print more.

612
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: We just we just know what's happening, and and everybody

613
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: just kind of step step. Um. So this proof of

614
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: work is is also this big invention that bitcoin kind

615
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: of perfected. As you said, it wasn't the first to

616
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: use it, but um, really so bitcoin was able to

617
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: assemble multiple pieces together, uh, to make it new. So

618
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,239
Speaker 1: would you agree that maybe, uh, people like to use

619
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: the analogy of MySpace and and uh Facebook, which I

620
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: know you talked about in your book, and and uh

621
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: how that's not really applicable to this situation, but uh

622
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: in that in the way that people try to use

623
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: it is that Facebook was the first generation. I'm sorry,

624
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 1: my space was the first generation. Facebook was the second, um,

625
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: which was better. Um, but Bitcoin wasn't my Space. Actually,

626
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: Bitcoin was a better version of other ones that had

627
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: come out before it. So if you wanted to use

628
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: that analogy apples to apples, I mean, Facebook is a

629
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 1: better iteration where it took pieces of of other things

630
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: before it and kind of put it together. I think. So. Yeah,

631
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: First of all, Bitcoin was not really the first. It

632
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: was it was assembling of many other pieces of work

633
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: that had come before, and a lot of ideas that

634
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: came before. UM. But more importantly, within my Space and

635
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 1: Facebook analogy, there's a flaw in the analogy and that Um,

636
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: you can have MySpace account and a Facebook account at

637
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: the same time. And that's how Facebook was able to

638
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: steal cheer from my Space because people just there was

639
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: no cost to create a Facebook account, right, you could

640
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: have both of them at the same time. UM. With bitcoin,

641
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: it's more of a money. So you have one dollar

642
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: bill and you have to decide are you going to

643
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: buy one dollar bill worth of the coin or one

644
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: dollar bill of something else. So you're making that decision,

645
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: and you're really hoping that everybody else around you makes

646
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 1: the same decision. Because money is only good if it's

647
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: extremely liquid and extremely salable. Meaning like if I go

648
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: to trade, you know, to a random person on the street,

649
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: are they going to actually accept my money? If I

650
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: have a U. S dollar anywhere in America, I know

651
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: that they will accept the US dollar, right. UM. If

652
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: I have a Venezuelan Bolivar, nobody here wants it. Even

653
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: in Venezuela, very few people want it, and most of

654
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: the time they're going to try to go for the dollars, right.

655
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: If they can't, there's a black market like that. So

656
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: in any situation where there's for a sort of a

657
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 1: money that's dying, people prefer the better money now here. Uh,

658
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: bitcoin is still very early, right, it's still very early,

659
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: but it's already got a tremendous lead over every other

660
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: competitor in terms of its liquidity, salability UM, in terms

661
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: of its UH security model being proven. I mean, it's

662
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 1: been ten years that bitcoin has been running, so uh,

663
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: it's securing hundreds of billions of dollars of value. And

664
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: now we're talking about any new competitors coming out. People

665
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: have to make that conscious decision of selling their bitcoin

666
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: and buying the competitor with the hope that everybody else

667
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 1: will do the same thing. Because of a strong liquidity

668
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: and network effective money, it's really really hard to shift.

669
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 1: You know, it's called the Shelling point. Right. Everybody sort

670
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: of agrees that bitcoin is that is that most important asset,

671
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: and everybody is already in it, so it's very tough

672
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: to shift everybody over UM. But that's only like one

673
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: of the things about bitcoin it's important. I mean, there's

674
00:32:58,400 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: lots of other things that are going to be very

675
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 1: difficult for us to ever reproduce, such as sort of

676
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: the mysterious founder that disappeared that nobody knows, right, like

677
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: every other coin has got some founder that the government

678
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: can go after, co worse and so on. Um, you know,

679
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: you've got any other coin that comes up has to

680
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: compete with bitcoins existing network of minors, which is a

681
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of hash power that's out there. Um, you know,

682
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: there's there's all this kind of stuff that it's very

683
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: difficult for anybody to compete because they're trying to catch up.

684
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: But they're catching up. They're trying to catch up with Bitcoin.

685
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: They're trying to be a better technology, which is already

686
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 1: hard because Bitcoin's got better developers. They're trying to attract

687
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: all that liquidity away from Bitcoin, which is hard because

688
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: of the monetary effect. You know, there's it's just compounded.

689
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: And then there's also the time aspect. Bitcoin has been

690
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: around for ten years now. You're trying to catch up

691
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: to something that's already ten years old with something new,

692
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: and you're trying to do that in a decentralized way,

693
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: without a founder, without somebody in charge. I mean you're

694
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: gonna have a hard time, you know. It's that's kind

695
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: of where we're at. Yeah. Yeah, And you make a

696
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: really good case for that in the book. So everyone

697
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: should go read the book for sure. I'm curious being

698
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: a technology guy, and and as you said, you kind

699
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: of got into Ethereum in the beginning and said, oh,

700
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: I kind of get this right, I understand what you're

701
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 1: trying to do. Um, Now you're kind of really focused

702
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: on bitcoin. How do you, um, how do you look

703
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: at the rest of the ethereum but also just the

704
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: crypto space compared to a bitcoin. I mean, obviously you've

705
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: already said the best money kind of wins. What you

706
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: think is bitcoin? Do you think there's other applications or

707
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: just kind of what's your overall thought about that. You know,

708
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: when I first got in, and like I said, I

709
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: did get in through the theorium door. Um. Ethereum has

710
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: a really good marketing campaign and you know, their website

711
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:38,800
Speaker 1: basically said here you can create a bank at a

712
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: hundred lines of code. You can make your own coin.

713
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: That was really cool, right, because if you come from

714
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: a technology background, you know how hard it is to

715
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,439
Speaker 1: build distributed systems. Financial systems like that stuff is really

716
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: really tough. Um Ethereum sort of democratized that, or at

717
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 1: least purported to democratize that, and we see a lot

718
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: of activity and Ethereum right, there's tons of tons of

719
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: people building stuff. Um, My question is whether any of

720
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: that stuff actually has true long term staying power because

721
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of the ethereum uh use

722
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: cases predicated on this like giant ecosystem of things running

723
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: on this Ethereum block chain. The problem with block chains

724
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: is that in order to be decentralized and to actually

725
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: be like censorship resistance, they have to be um super

726
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: lean because they can't just like attract more and more gunk.

727
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: And that's what's happening with the Theoreum is it's like

728
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,919
Speaker 1: it's growing out of control and that's reducing the number

729
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,400
Speaker 1: of those that can actually validate thethereum Um system. And

730
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: so in order to solve this, they're building Etheroreum two

731
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: point o, which like even me as a technology person,

732
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: like I've looked at some of that stuff and it's

733
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 1: completely mind blowing how how insanely the complex it seems,

734
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: and how like probably none of it will work because

735
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: like there's a fundamental there's a fundamental problem here, Like

736
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: I'm not as smart as Vitalic or or Ladder are

737
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 1: these people who are working in ethereum. But there's but

738
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: you know, there's some intuition here where like there's there

739
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: are computers and they need to share data, right, they

740
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: need to They need to send data across the world

741
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: from US to China. There's latency issues, right, There's things

742
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: that you just can't solve unless you keep that data

743
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: really really small. And that's not the direction Ethereum sided.

744
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: In order to support all this crazy stuff that they're building,

745
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: they're gonna have to figure out very complex ways of

746
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 1: splitting it up. And at the end of the day,

747
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: it's going to turn into a system that's not really

748
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 1: especially decentralized. Now, is there a world where like ten

749
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: companies share some database and like benefit from that. I

750
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: don't know. Sure, whatever, that's fine, I don't care, But

751
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't like it doesn't UM for me. The reason

752
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 1: I work on bitcoin is because what we need is

753
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 1: a society is not like a fancier way to settle

754
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 1: trades between banks. It's it's a new monetary system that's

755
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: not UM. That censorship resistance and that's uh, you know,

756
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 1: not in the control of the government. And I just

757
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,919
Speaker 1: don't have any faith that Ethereum can execute that part

758
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: of it um and let alone any other coin. I mean,

759
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: everything else is like I said, there are problems in

760
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: terms of the deaf teams, the founder, centralization and all

761
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, um and and so I think

762
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: we only get one chance to getting sort of this

763
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: new monitory system. Right, We've already got it with bitcoin.

764
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: It's attracting more and more of the right people, of

765
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: the right developments, um, the right uh financialization systems. I mean,

766
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 1: look at like the you know, the Chicago more cantilic

767
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: changes in trading theorym I mean maybe they will one day,

768
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: but everybody's doing bitcoin, Bitcoin become bitcoin, right. Their brand

769
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: is there, the meme of money, the bitcoin is money

770
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: is there, and it's it's spreading um and ultimately it's

771
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: network effects. Yeah, I I I loved what you just

772
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: said there, and I probably couldn't said it any better myself.

773
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: But it's it's it's it's really it's a revolution. I mean,

774
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: bitcoin is here to change the monetary system. That's what

775
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: I'm that's what I'm watching for. That's what I'm that's

776
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 1: what I want. That's what I'm trying to help usure

777
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: in UM. Whether a company comes up with a better

778
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: software to control their supply chain, that doesn't really matter

779
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: to me. Like you know, like I think it's been

780
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 1: a weird conflation and it's caused like you know, if

781
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: you go on Twitter, there's all these wars of like

782
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 1: bitcoin versus block chambers is etheroryum. It's it's a weird

783
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: war to be having because it's like you want to

784
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 1: work on money, then you work on bitcoin. If you

785
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: want to work on you know, distributed databases, go work

786
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: on this other stuff. But nobody knows if any of

787
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 1: it's going to be successful because by and large, these

788
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: things only work in small sort of private one data center. Right.

789
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: There's there's issues of scalability there, Like if you want

790
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 1: to have something that competes with like a traditional database,

791
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,280
Speaker 1: you've got to be doing thousands of actions a second

792
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: at minimum, It's not tens of thousands. And that stuff

793
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: is just not what block chains are built for. That's

794
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: not like their sweet spot. Um and and the only

795
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: block chain that actually works, you know, UM to its promise,

796
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 1: which is to be immutable and to be decentralized is bitcoin,

797
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 1: and the ethereum is maybe close to that, but because

798
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,919
Speaker 1: of all the founder centralization that's there, Like, I would

799
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 1: never trust it to be my money, right, I would

800
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: never trust Etherorium to have Like the monetary policy of

801
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 1: ethereum is not credible to me, even though um. I

802
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: I listened to one of your recent UH podcasts with

803
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: Ryan Shawan Adams who was saying that, like the theoryum

804
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 1: is gonna have one percent issuance or something, but that's

805
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: not a credible monetary policy because like the talent could

806
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: be course, like Joe Lubin could be coerced, these people

807
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: could be told by the government or by some shadow

808
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: entities to make changes. Like I'm I'm not a conspiracy theorist, right,

809
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 1: this is just the reality. If we're gonna build a

810
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: new money, we're gonna come up against state resistance and eftherorium.

811
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 1: It's going to fold under state resistance guaranteed. Yeah, And

812
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: that's the big thing, right, is it is? I don't

813
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think there's such a thing as

814
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: immutable ish, right, It's not like kind of like it

815
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: is or it isn't and so that that's definitely a

816
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,279
Speaker 1: good point to bring up, um, you know, uh, and

817
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 1: and having having a monetary policy or even just comp

818
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 1: you know, having the code fixed that everybody knows exactly

819
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: what the rules are and then people can start to

820
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: build on that makes sense as opposed to having this

821
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 1: shifting policy where people aren't aware of what's going to happen. Right,

822
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: And that's another thing with other coins Etherorium and any

823
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 1: other coin really is you see a lot of like

824
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: hard fork governance, meaning like, uh, they pretty much change

825
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: their system every year with a hard fork, and it's

826
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: kind of expected, like everybody's on board with this. This

827
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: is like an ecosystem wide acceptance that like ballic is

828
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: going to tell us that then you upgrade is coming.

829
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: We're all just gonna upgrade. So that in and of

830
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 1: itself is the thing that undermines any credibility as a money.

831
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: Just because it has some monetary premium today doesn't necessarily

832
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: mean it we'll retain them in the future, especially if

833
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: like bitcoin catches on more and more and more people

834
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 1: start to realize, well, like I have a choice, Am

835
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: I going to buy the thing that's going up or

836
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: hold the thing that's going down. It's gonna be like

837
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 1: tough for people to keep punishing themselves, right, Yeah, for sure,

838
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: Um so maybe we can just uh that's that's really

839
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: good stuff. And again I just recommend everyone read the

840
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,479
Speaker 1: book because you getn't get into so much detail on app.

841
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: But you say that now you know you want to

842
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: be building on bitcoin. Uh, you want to talk about

843
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: what you're doing? Now? Is there something like that you're

844
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 1: working on that you want to talk about? Sure? Um

845
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: so I'm I'm working in a couple of different efforts.

846
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:18,800
Speaker 1: I love to keep a lot of balls in the

847
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: air at the same time. So, first of all, the

848
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 1: book is being translated into a number of different languages.

849
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 1: Have Spanish coming out very soon, maybe the Sweet hopefully, um.

850
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: And then I have a Russian translation in the works,

851
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: of course, gotta get one from my people. Yeah, and

852
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 1: um I've realized more more and more as I get

853
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: into the space that like, I want to be more

854
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 1: of an educator even though my backgrounds and technology. So

855
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 1: one of the things I'm gonna be working on next

856
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: is a bitcoin site called Bitcoin Answers. Uh. It's going

857
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 1: to be really really short form content for people are

858
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: just getting in dispelling some common myths, answering some really

859
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 1: basic questions. Um. And then I've sort of been toying

860
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: with the idea of building an app that helps people

861
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: buy bitcoin triggered by certain events. Um. But there's a

862
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: lot of complexity and doing that without making a custodial

863
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: So that's something that I'm slowly researching, trying to figure

864
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: out the best way of going about doing that. But yeah,

865
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: I mean to me, the current space is very new,

866
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: so we need more education, need more onboarding. UM. I'm

867
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: involved as an adviser to a company called give Bitcoin,

868
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: which is a really cool effort. They're going to be, um,

869
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: helping people gift bitcoin to other people, but then also

870
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: timelocking it, so basically enforcing people to become Hoddler's right away, uh,

871
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: and then the timelock. During the timelock, they will be

872
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: offering educational content, which I think is super important because

873
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: bitcoin is not currently something trivial to get into. Uh.

874
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:45,759
Speaker 1: There's a lot of questions people have when they're getting

875
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: into it, and UM, we need a better onboarding process.

876
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: So that's the stuff that I'll be working on because

877
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 1: I think that's the most important thing we could be

878
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 1: doing right now is just helping more people understand bitcoin,

879
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: get bitcoin um and learn how to use it. Yeah,

880
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,320
Speaker 1: I was. I I've been been a full time investor

881
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: for for a long time, over twenty years, and I

882
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: still invest in a bunch of different assets and um.

883
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: I I have a part ownership of oil field And

884
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: I was talking with with one of the other GP

885
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: members yesterday and we're and he's also getting into bit

886
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,359
Speaker 1: when we're talking about the ability to mind bitcoin off

887
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 1: of the oil fields from the natural gases flaring and whatnot.

888
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: You're familiar with upstream data, Uh yeah, yeah, Okay, Yeah,

889
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: they're there. That's uh something that I'm really excited about

890
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 1: as well. That's a cool company that they're doing exactly that. Yeah,

891
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: So we actually have we're working oil wells and we're

892
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: going to be talking about trying to convert some of

893
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: it over. But anyway, we're just kind of talking about

894
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 1: how bitcoin is really now. I I believe it's kind

895
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: of become its own asset class. And just like you

896
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: would see gold, or just like you'd see oil, you

897
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: have all these antilla businesses that are built around oil, right,

898
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: companies that are making equipment to drill oil and companies

899
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: that are making pipelines to move oil, and companies that

900
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: are like refining or with gold, same thing, right, companies

901
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: that are getting it out or making equipment to get

902
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,040
Speaker 1: it out or to refine it. And so bitcoin and

903
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: maybe now bitcoin is that asset and now all the

904
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: ancillary businesses can be built around bitcoin. Um. So whether

905
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: that's transferring bitcoin, story and bitcoin, moving bitcoin, educating, right,

906
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 1: and so like you can kind of build all that

907
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: out around it. Yeah, I totally agree. I think we're

908
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: just very early in that ecosystem where a lot of

909
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,279
Speaker 1: businesses we're gonna see a lot of churn, right, We're

910
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:18,719
Speaker 1: gonna see a lot of things that are just too

911
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 1: early to market. Um. And you know, some of the

912
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: stuff that's just coming out, like bitcoin loans is interesting,

913
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: but it might be a little early, might be just

914
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 1: the beginning of that. Um. It's just gonna be about

915
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: market timing and figuring out what the right time to

916
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 1: be investing these things is. But I do think that

917
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: there's a flourishing ecosystem and there's gonna be a lot

918
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: of interesting opportunities in the space. Um. You know, for me,

919
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: it's like there's there's two aspects of bitcoin. One is,

920
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: if you're an American, you know, person and investor whatever

921
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 1: in your your life is fine and you're not worried

922
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 1: about government seature of your money. Like bitcoin is just

923
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,520
Speaker 1: a good way to help the rest of the world.

924
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: Like you can invest in bitcoin, and that in and

925
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: of itself helps other people that are in struggling economies

926
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: because it helps stabilize the valuable coin, helps them get

927
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,919
Speaker 1: out of the out of poverty. And we're talking about

928
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: people like in Venezuela and Iran and all that kind

929
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: of stuff. So I like that bitcoin has um an

930
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 1: aspect to it that's both selfish, where like we can

931
00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: invest in into it and make money, but it's also

932
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: a global good where when when we're helping bitcoin, we're

933
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 1: also helping it spread across the world and become I'm

934
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 1: honesty good that people can actually you know, used to

935
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: escape their sort of horrible um screwed up economies and

936
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: deitillarians totalitarian states. With I love it. I love it.

937
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: We'll wrap it up with that. We're gonna leave it

938
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,919
Speaker 1: with John says that buying bitcoin is helping to save

939
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 1: the world, and I agree, save yourself and save the world.

940
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,839
Speaker 1: At the same time. I love it. Good stuff. Hey

941
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,839
Speaker 1: yeahn So, UM, where can people find the book? Where

942
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 1: can people learn more? Keep up with you and so forth? Yeah? Absolutely,

943
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: so you can find a book on Amazon just type

944
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: in inventing Bitcoin. Um. You can also buy it at

945
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: inventing bitcoin dot com. You can pay with bitcoin there

946
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: if you like, or Lightning Network. But then I have

947
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: to process the orders manually. So please don't I have

948
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: an Amazon if you can. If you can't, then I'll

949
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: be happy to help you out. Also, if you are

950
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: listening to this podcast and you are in an economy

951
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: where you you don't have Amazon or you can't you know,

952
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 1: get stuff like, just contact me. I'm always happy to

953
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: um send out books to places that are hard to reach. UM.

954
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: Also very interested in talking to any educators or people

955
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 1: like that who want to have books for the classrooms. UM.

956
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,160
Speaker 1: I've done a number of high school talks, so I'm

957
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,880
Speaker 1: really excited to bring bitcoins to younger people as well. UM.

958
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: You can also find me on Twitter. U s k

959
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: w P as my handle. It's pronounced scoop um, so

960
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: ask WP and uh yeah, hit me up on Twitter.

961
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: My my dms are open. I'm I'm happy to have

962
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: a chat with anybody. Yeah, we'll link to all that

963
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,120
Speaker 1: in the show notes. H yeahn. Thank you so much.

964
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: It has been It's been great. Um. I love what

965
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 1: you're doing. Keep it up and we'll talk again soon.

966
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Marco's a pleasure. Hey. If you like

967
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 1: this episode of The Market Disruptors Podcast, please help us

968
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: take this to the top of the podcast charts. Just

969
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: please do me a favor and rate, review and subscribe.

970
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,399
Speaker 1: Taking fifteen seconds to just leave a quick review goes

971
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,719
Speaker 1: a long way in helping us reach more people and

972
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: disrupt more markets. I really appreciate you listening and I'll

973
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: see you next time on The Market Disruptors Podcast.