WEBVTT - Why is the U.S. so dependent on cars? 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.600 It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:16.360 from House Stuff Works dot Com? Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.400 --> 0:00:19.320 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me as always as 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:23.720 the lovely and effervescent Charles W. Bryant. I'm invescent. I'm 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:26.200 not effervescent. Your effervescent, whether you like it or not, 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.280 doubt how you doing, sir? Do you seem like you 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:32.360 were in the best move today? It's Monday morning. Yeah, 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:36.040 compared to Friday afternoons when usually record, there's a like change. 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.960 But hey, I'm part up. You sound like it's the 0:00:40.960 --> 0:00:46.200 first week of the rest of our lives. Yeah, sadly enough. Um, Chuck, 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:49.600 how did you get to work this morning? I drove 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.120 to the subway, then took the subway to work. You 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.680 took the subway, terrible. I drove to work, so let's 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:58.600 go with me. Good for you. I'm like the vast 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:03.600 majority of at Lantin's driving to work. Yeah. Um, I 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:07.640 remember there's the there was this huge This is ultra local, 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.400 but I'm sure it happens all over the United States. 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.520 There's this proposed rail line from love Joy way down 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:17.920 south in this in the southern suburbs of Atlanta that 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:22.759 was gonna come up to Atlanta proper city. Uh. And 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.920 the people who came out against this came out against 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.200 it like it was a proposal to murder every one 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.560 of everybody's kids, people who live in love Joy. No, 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:34.880 it wasn't just a love Joy people in every county 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:36.520 that this rail line was going to go through. I 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:39.760 mean they were elected representatives that were coming out against it, 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:45.560 like everybody was arguing against this public transportation. And simultaneously 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.320 they were throwing their support between because there's horrible congestion 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:54.400 below the city. It's probably the worst in Atlanta. Yeah, 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:57.800 they fought the Marty going too far north to I know, 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:00.280 and and always the the and by the way, everyone 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:04.120 Martha is our public rail system are sad. Sad public 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:07.240 rail system it forms in in Atlanta is one of 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.840 the major cities in the country. We have a cross 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:13.839 we have a plus sign for a transit system. There's 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.360 a couple of little UH lines that spur off of 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.400 it now, but not much. I've never seen them. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:19.720 --> 0:02:23.400 but yeah, north northeast and then straight north. And I 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.800 should say in my defense. There's I could drive, I 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.360 guess to you know, Art Center stop or something like that, 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.640 and then hit the railness to right. Exactly. It's great 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:37.120 for me though, it is, Chuck, you are well served 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:40.560 by our transit system. But yeah, generally the argument against 0:02:40.600 --> 0:02:46.040 transit is, um that you know, the poor will use 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:48.720 it to go No, No, they'll use it to go 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.720 rob houses in the suburbs. Oh I thought they thought 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:55.320 they'd start living along the line. No. The argument I've 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:57.560 always heard is that it will increase crime. So can't 0:02:57.560 --> 0:02:59.880 you just see people, you know, laden with flat screen 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:02.680 t vs and you know all sorts of others. You know, 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.359 they have the the burglar mask on and that money 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.720 sack with the dollar sign on it. That they just 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:11.399 came from some wealthy suburbanites house and now they're using 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:15.040 public transit to make their getaway. Right. Um. So yeah, 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.560 that's one reason that it's stalled. But as I was 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.360 saying this, to solve this congestion problem down south, the 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:26.480 proposal is to make seventy five by seventy five, I 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:30.239 think from five lanes to eleven lanes in each direction. 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:33.520 You know, I I wish I had a stat to 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.440 back this up. But I've always heard that making roads 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.160 wider does not do much to East congestion. No, I've 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.000 heard that as well. Cars will fill it. Yeah, it's 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.720 kind of like, um, if you build it, they will 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.880 come right. It's like giving condoms to teenagers. They wouldn't 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.440 have sex if you didn't give them condoms, but once 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:54.320 you do, they're just like rabbits, you know. Ridiculous. Um, 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:58.440 so chuck the the The debate continues, and I'm actually 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:01.960 surprised after reading this article we're about to talk about, 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:05.040 written by our esteem colleague, John Fuller of Stuff from 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:10.120 the B Side. Yeah, very hip, young, soft spoken man. Um, 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:14.240 that rail is even alive these days. Yeah. Have you 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:17.640 ever taken a train ride at like an Amtrak I have. Yeah, 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.080 it's awesome. I think I went. I don't remember where 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:21.440 I went. I was kind of young, but it was 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:23.440 pretty cool. It's really cool. Yeah, I wish it were 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.400 a little more comprehensive and cheaper and expensive. It is, 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:31.560 and you also realize it's federally subsidized. Oh yeah, Amtrak 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.960 is is subsidized by federal money, so you can pay 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.480 for Amtrak pal. Yeah, I should take a do I 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:41.239 get free tickets? Or anything catch on that you can't. 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.080 But let's talk about it. Man. If you look around, 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:48.039 we take for granted just how much we rely on 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.280 the car. Yeah. Like Fuller points out in this article, 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:56.240 the very designs of our cities, of our shopping malls, 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.840 and everything is made with the car and mine. It's 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:02.279 hard to imagine a life without parking lots. And what 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.080 if everything were street cars and subways and you know, 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.800 trains and things. I can't even conceive it. What if 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.200 parking lots were green space, like you still had your 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.200 shopping mall right, but it was just surrounded by like 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.719 a park. That'd be awesome. It would be awesome. But 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.520 it's too late. Not necessarily. There's a movement from mixed 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:25.479 use development in walkable cities Atlanta. We have our own 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:29.200 thing going yeah with the uh yeah, the belt line proposal, yes, 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.359 which I got really excited about when I first started 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:33.359 hearing it, and then I read the finer points. It 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:35.200 is great, but it's going to be finished when I'm 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.240 like seventy. Yeah, it's like cool, Maybe I can have 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:41.160 kids and grandkids will enjoy it. Hopefully it'll be wheelchair 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:45.080 accessible for you. Yeah. Um, so well, let's do. Let's 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:50.760 give a little background, right, okay, eighteen thirty two, New York. Okay, 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.080 let's do it. We're in New York in eighteen thirties. 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:58.760 There's newses everywhere. Um, there's the Irish are fighting one another. 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.520 It's crazy, so let's not spend too much time here. 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:07.040 It's eighteen thirty two, and New York has just installed 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:11.279 the first street rail line and it's horse drawn. So 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.240 we see the little horsey right there, can you hear it? Yeah? Alright, 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.279 let's get out of here. Chuck, Yeah, I see Daniel 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:22.480 deay Lewis is come. Okay, So now my friend were 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:29.480 in New Orleans only slightly less dangerous eighty five? What 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:33.600 do you mean slightly? And New Orleans has just opened 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:37.279 its first street rail line, and Chuck, if you want 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:39.240 to go ahead and flash forward with me to two 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:43.280 thousand nine, take my hand. Okay, all right, here we are. 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.080 The same rail line is still in use in New 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.320 Orleans and it's just as dangerous here. Let's go back 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:55.280 to the studio. So rail line have been around a 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:59.200 little while, a long while actually, and longer than the car. Um. 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:04.039 Apparently there was a what is it called zeitgeist when 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:05.799 a bunch of people come up with the same idea 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:10.000 at the same time. That happened with the automobile Germans 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:14.080 mainly well, yeah, and a guy named Gottlieb Daimler was 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:18.520 the first. He is widely viewed as the first to 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:22.200 come up with the real functioning automobile. Right, the kild 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.840 gets you from point A to point b uh. And 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:30.280 he named the car after his daughter, named Mercedes. Yep. 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.760 He hooked up with a guy named Carl Carl Benz 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.560 and hold on, I've got to say, Chuck, hats off 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.239 to you for your extra dedication to throwing that little 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:45.120 German exci what was Yes, I thought it was interesting 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:46.560 to think if it would end up being called the 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:50.520 Daimler Benz said of the Mercedes Benz good name, Yeah, 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:56.000 but certainly not now it's the iconic Mercedes ben so uh. 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:57.640 They were the first ones, like you said, to come 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.840 up with a working car four right, uh huh. And 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.040 years later they looked to America because we kind of 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:07.560 perfected that that scene and started building highway. So they 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:09.679 looked at us in there, how to build an auto 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:13.080 bonn super highway. Yeah, And there was a guy who, 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:16.720 again by historians is widely considered the man who did 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.840 perfect that scene. As you put it, a guy named 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:26.120 Henry Ford, industrialist, fascist, eugenicist, well at the very least 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:30.640 supporter of eugenics, dentist. Why not. Probably in his fare 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.320 time he was something of a renaissance man um. And 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.280 the reason he's credited is perfecting the automobiles because he 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.640 applied the principle of the assembly line. A lot of 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:42.080 people needed that term. Actually he did. He didn't come 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.680 up with the assembly line itself. He did coin the term, 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:49.559 but he applied that to car manufacturing and all of 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.560 a sudden, you know, making one car by hand by 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:56.240 one person, which took forever. They just popped it on 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.000 a line and each person had their own job, and 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.960 he cranked out I think fourteen million cars. Yeah, between 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:06.640 nineteen thirteen and nineteen twenty seven they built fourteen million 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:11.040 Model Ts, which is a huge jump because just in uh, 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:14.920 nineteen fifteen, there were only two million cars, and that 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.320 was when there were about a hundred million people in 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:20.520 the United States. Yeah, that's that's a lot of cars. Yeah, 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:24.560 that's a that's especially for it having been considered um 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:27.800 kind of like a plaything of the rich. Yeah, it 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:30.359 was almost like a toy and like a personal submarine 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:35.000 is today. Sure, maybe so. And they weren't even uh 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:37.600 that well liked at first because they were clunky and 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:39.439 they smell bad. I know. John said that one of 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.720 the early names nicknames for a car was a stink chariot, 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:46.480 which I thought was pretty funny. Yeah, couldn't stink worse 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.439 than horse manure? Or could it could? I guess it's 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.400 a different kind of thing. I kind of like the 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.080 smell of horse manure. Yeah, but what if it was 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:57.240 coming out like that was the emissions of the time, 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.400 I'd be in heaven. How do you control the emissions? 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:04.079 I wonder? With the corks right or like, don't do 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.520 like a Kramer did in Seinfeldwani and Ernie fed the 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:12.319 horse rabby all the years. Um, that was a tangent 0:10:12.880 --> 0:10:16.560 u Chuck. Let's talk about rail lines. Yes, we can't 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:19.040 forget about rail and say actually opened up the country. 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:22.280 You know, back before then, John Candy was in a 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.400 covered wagon and that's how you really got around. You 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:29.119 ended up devolving into cannibalism. It was nothing but hardship. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:31.360 There were no roads. Really, basically, you had to have 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:33.440 a murder rap on your back east to take a 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:37.000 covered wagon. Uh out west. Well, there were no inner 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:39.240 states and freeways, there were no local roads. You were 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:45.079 literally a trailblazer, which is why Portland has that name Trailblazer. Interesting. Yeah, 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.880 well that's an assumption of mine of facts. So, um, 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:53.679 the railways open this up and actually they're wildly successful. 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:59.280 They actually are are are considered to have created the 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:02.240 modern and austrial state of the United States that we 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:05.920 view it totally right. Um, they opened up the continent 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:10.440 and uh, I think one point two billion people were 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.679 using rail lines every year by and that was at 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:17.880 its peak, peaked in and that's what that's about a 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:20.480 hundred and six million people living in the United States 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:23.640 then carrying one point two billion. So it's pretty clear 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:27.480 that you know, every American was probably traveling by rail 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:31.240 several times a year or maybe several times a week 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.800 or day, who knows. And it also opened up the 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:39.719 rest of the country too, ordinary everyday people. Um, they 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:44.200 before it was pretty much horse drawn carriage, maybe a 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:47.160 Model T but with with the absence of roads in 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:51.040 between towns, not very comfortable now no, and they were bumpy, Um, 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:55.360 people just kind of stuck around their town. Yeah, people 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:57.720 didn't even leave it where they were born their entire life. 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.520 There are people who do that still today, which is 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.120 just weird. Yeah. I remember when I took my grandmother, 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:06.320 who lived to be a hundred and one and passed 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:08.160 away a couple of years ago, when we took her 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:09.880 to the ocean for the first time. Dude, she was 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.520 like in her seventies, Yeah, what do you think of it? 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.840 She walked out and forget it was like twelve. She 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.839 walked out to the ocean and stood there and went, well, 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:22.280 it's big, I swear to God, that's all she said. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.360 Granny Bryant's famous quote, and that we actually called her 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.320 Granny brand That's funny, did you? And she pretty much 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.480 turned around and was like, all right, let's let's go home. 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:34.800 That was it, go back to Tennessee. Yeah. Yeah. And 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.319 once you've seen one ocean, you've seen them all pure Yeah. Um. 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.839 So rail lines are really making a huge impact, but 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.400 they kind of fell to the wayside, even though cities 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:48.640 like New York and Boston um started offering commuter stops, 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:51.240 but it was still it was a train. It wasn't 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.640 all that convenient. It was really good for long distances. 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.520 But with the some some refinement of the automobile and 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:04.760 some huge marketing campaigns and lobbying and some unholy alliances. Yeah, 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.360 we'll get into that. Um, the automobile started to take 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:10.720 on more play, more and more and more of a 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:15.000 role streamline into the manufacturing they of course, like any 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.959 manufacturing process, I got a little cheaper too. That's huge 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:22.520 consumer once prices started coming. Ultimately, no matter how played 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.320 upon your brain is by by pr firms, UM, no 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:30.040 matter how little of a choice you're given by huge monopolies, 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.640 Ultimately it comes down to the consumer's choice. It's something 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:35.920 that's really easily forgotten. Yeah. We talked about that in 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:40.839 our econ audio. Yeah, definitely. Um. And when consumers are 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:44.560 given a choice, they almost invariably choose the cheaper options. 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:49.280 So when cars started to become competitive price wise with 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:52.680 maybe rail service that kind of thing, Uh, people started 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:54.720 buying more and more cars, right, And you didn't have 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.200 to depend on the rail services schedule. Of course, all 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.440 of a sudden you were in control of when you 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:03.440 went somewhere and how far you traveled, and you didn't 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.240 have to worry about what the rail line said about it, yeah, 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:11.200 which is still a criticism today of public transit. Cars 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.440 offer freedom. It's as simple as that. They also offer 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:17.280 more privacy, to which I think a lot of people value, right, 0:14:17.320 --> 0:14:20.080 and an ability to h engage in road rage, a 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.960 national pastime here in the United States, which is a 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.120 little more removed than subway rage. If you remember, what 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.160 was that girl's named soldier girl? Yeah, who went off 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.400 again on Marta or beloved Marta. Yeah, you can find 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.760 that on YouTube. Still ensure what what would they type 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.400 in chuck Soldia girl? I think s O U L 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:41.640 j A if you want to watch a nice subway rant. 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.640 Nothing like road rage though. Um so, rail lines is 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:48.760 kind of fading into the background as far as public 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.120 transportation goes and taking on more and more of a 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:56.400 role as um, you know, goods, good transportation, commodities, transportation 0:14:56.520 --> 0:15:00.480 right right. But there's also those street rail lines that 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:04.520 we were talking about. They were actually most cities, whether 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.840 huge or not, had public transportation in the form of trolley's. 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.320 L A Dude was one of the big I had 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.120 one of the biggest trolley and street car lines, the 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.320 red cars and the yellow cars what they were called, 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:19.560 and man they connected and This is way back then. 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.760 They connected like five counties and it was really vast 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.320 and they were pretty much squashed. But that's what we're 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:31.000 getting to now. This is arguably the death the death 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:36.240 blow of public transportation. National city Lines, National city Lines. 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:37.600 This is where I think it really comes down to. 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:40.320 Let's go ahead and say that we found in our research, 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:44.280 um two views of this. There. I read an article 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:49.400 by a guy who says that this this the scandal 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:53.440 is so not everybody is is on board that this 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:57.280 actually happened the way that it's said, but that we 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.920 do have some facts. Let's do it, chuck. National city Lines. Yes, 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:04.080 National city Lines was a group that formed made up 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:06.680 of I think it was about eight companies, but that 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:12.440 included General Motors, Firestone, Standard Oil of California, Phillips Petroleum, 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:15.960 so clearly the big hitters and what would be the 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:21.520 burgeoning auto business. And they basically what they wanted to 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.680 do was buy up the street car systems and replace 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:25.960 them with busses. They did, and they did it quietly. 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.280 What they did was, um, it wasn't just busses, but 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:33.280 like all the tires on these buses were Firestone, all 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.200 of the gas put into these buses with standard oil 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.560 and all the busses were manufactured by GM. Yes, so 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.680 basically all of a sudden automobiles, whether it was a 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:45.640 bus or a model TS, that was the way to 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.400 get around. Yeah, the trolley line was dead and it's 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.840 called is referred to as the Great American street car Scandal. Right. 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.840 And also if that sounds vaguely familiar, Um, you may 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:57.960 have seen who framed Roger Rabbit. I was going to 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.280 mention that that informed one of the sub plots loosely, 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.879 loosely masked, but definitely based on that that whole scene. 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.680 So back in seven there was a guy um who 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.080 was actually a trolley enthusiast. I guess he was a 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:17.160 wealthy He was from a wealthy family. His name was E. J. Quinby. Uh. 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.439 He was a naval officer. He sounds wealthy. He was, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.240 but he bucked the family trend of just being wealthy 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.360 uh and took a job managing trolley lines in New 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:33.359 Jersey after as his first job after college. Right. I guess. 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:35.520 Then he went into the navy after the war or 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:39.960 during the war, um, and he noticed what National City 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.440 Lines was doing because he was right there, he'd been 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:44.960 there while you know, they were buying up all these 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.640 trolley services. So he figured out what was going on, 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:53.520 and he wrote, um this letter with all this detailed 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:58.040 evidence to every person he could think of had anything 0:17:58.080 --> 0:18:03.600 to do with federal, state, municipal elected officials and transportation. 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:05.560 Anybody who had any kind of thing it got a 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.680 letter from this guy across the country. He started this 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.720 whole thing for people to start paying attention to this. Yeah. Really, 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:12.200 I didn't know that. Yeah, a lot of people say 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:15.080 that he would have it may not have ever been 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.439 noticed that he not brought it to everyone's attention, and 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:22.240 he wasn't. Remember he was from a wealthy family. But 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:26.560 um he he did such a thorough job that National 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:30.000 City Lines was indicted by the federal government or the 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:34.400 Justice Department for um anti trust for breaking anti trust laws. Yeah, 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:39.320 the Sherman Anti Trust Act, right, So okay, now we've 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:43.920 got him by the short and curlies. Obviously National City 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.720 Lines is going to go under. These people are going 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:48.560 to all be taken out behind the wood shed and 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:50.480 shot in the back of the head for trying to 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.840 One of the charges was monopolized ground transportation in the 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:57.000 United States, which is pretty huge very huge. They were 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.520 actually acquitted of that charge, Yes they were, and they 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:04.480 were found guilty of a lesser charge of guilty of 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:09.720 monopolizing the sale of buses, which which, let me come on, Yeah, 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:12.400 they were found guilty. What happened, Chuck? They were fined 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.160 five thousand dollars. The whole thing, the National City Lines 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.560 was just owned by GM. This firestone in standard oil 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:22.880 was find five thousand dollars, which in seven even wasn't 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.480 that much for corporate, not for all these corporations at all. 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:28.840 The executives surely had to pay, right, Chuck, they did, dude, 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.879 how much? One dollar? One dollar piece a symbolic fine 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:36.040 of one dollar, and from an outsider looking in, you 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.160 would see this lesser charge quote unquote, it's pretty much 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:42.359 the charge, and they just I don't know how they 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:44.080 got around it. I don't know if there was some 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.199 nefarious bribes or anything like that. I know so that 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:51.000 some conspiracy folks think so, but it's still hasn't been 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:55.119 found out. Really, So the the fact that that case was, 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:59.720 you know, tried and convicted in ninety seven, it's still 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.280 it didn't catch the public eye all that much. It 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:06.760 was actually a district attorney or federal attorney I think 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:11.400 named Bradford Snell, who in nineteen seventy four testified before 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:16.119 the Senate and really drummed up public ire about this occurrence. 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:18.879 That it happened, uh, you know, a couple of decades before, 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:22.800 so that it wasn't really considered a scandal or a 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:27.399 huge nefariest plot until Bradford Snell came about, right, and 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.560 again still not everybody's on the same page about whether 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:34.480 this was a nefariest plot. No one actually disputes that 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:38.280 GM and in National City Lines were trying to sell 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:41.920 busses across the country. But they're saying monopolized ground transportation 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:46.240 prove it. Uh, you can't really prove motivation like that, 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:50.520 or clearly the federal prosecutors couldn't. But as as one 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.760 guy pointed out in a Mountain Express, which is a 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.000 paper out of Asheville, and I read a cool article 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.080 in there about this um, the result was still the 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:02.280 same for the trolley car. So whether that was the 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:06.199 intent or not, that was still the result. And I 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:10.760 think one of the reasons why this became such a 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:14.360 point of or source of irritation among the public when 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.840 Snell came out because that was nineteen seventy four, which 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.119 was kind of right in the middle of the energy crisis, 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:21.760 wasn't it. Well, that was part of it, but also 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:24.680 it was around the birth of the the environmental protection 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:28.080 movement we have like the Nasson e p A. And 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:31.520 people are starting to think about that kind of thing. Yeah, 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:34.240 and I think also faith in corporations that had been 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.040 lost time and time again. People were kind of getting 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.800 fed up with it. Right, Yeah, it's a good point. So, Chuck, 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:44.080 we were talking about public transportation and cars being in 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:47.199 a horse race, uh, to see who was going to 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:50.760 serve or which was going to serve the United States. Right, 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.200 there's also another sub race going on between what exactly 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:58.680 would fuel those cars. Yeah, oil or gasoline or ethanol? Right. 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.000 Henry Ford design in the Model T to run on 0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.439 either one, which is pretty interesting to think back, this 0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:06.480 country could have gone in a whole different direction. Man, 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:09.160 it totally could have. Ford was actually a huge proponent 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:13.440 of ethanol. He called it the fuel of the future. Uh, 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:15.280 and it was, which was kind of weird because it 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.080 had been around for several decades already. It used to 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:23.000 power all sorts of equipment I think Ford also said that, um, 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:28.280 one one year's yield of an acre of potatoes can 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:32.840 be used to fuel the machinery to cultivate that acre 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:35.840 for the next century. But we went with gas. We 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.680 did go with gas. And do you know why, I'm 0:22:38.720 --> 0:22:40.320 not sure. I know that gas was just kind of 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:43.800 a dirty byproduct at the time of oil crew to 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:47.720 oil production. Yeah, they were looking for kerosene because they 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:51.040 wanted kerosene to light things. Um, and no one really 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:53.120 had any use for gas right right at the time. 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:57.000 But once some oil fields opened up. You ever heard 0:22:57.040 --> 0:22:59.600 of a little movie called There Will Be Blood. Once 0:22:59.640 --> 0:23:04.480 some oil fields opened up in Texas around that time, Uh, 0:23:04.680 --> 0:23:08.639 oil suddenly became cheaper, Gas became cheaper, advances in the 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:13.879