1
00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,160
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

2
00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

3
00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,440
Speaker 1: today's best minds and House Democrats will force a Flora

4
00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,920
Speaker 1: vote this week on the Matt Gates Ethics Report. We

5
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,080
Speaker 1: have such a great show for you today Bloomberg Opinions.

6
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,680
Speaker 1: Tim O'Brien talks about what we can expect from Trump

7
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,800
Speaker 1: two point zero. Then we'll talk to pro public as

8
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:30,440
Speaker 1: Molly Redden about how Trump plans to take powers from

9
00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 1: Congress to change the federal government.

10
00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,120
Speaker 2: But first the news, So.

11
00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 3: Molly, our mayor, our mayor. He has got a lot

12
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,280
Speaker 3: of charges against him, which a lot of people don't realize.

13
00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,280
Speaker 3: And I'll be shocked to tell you he's sucking up

14
00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:45,080
Speaker 3: to the guy who gives lots of pardons out, mister

15
00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 3: Donald Trump.

16
00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:47,800
Speaker 2: None of this should come as a surprise.

17
00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:54,480
Speaker 1: Mayor Adams indicted, has more federal investigations swirling around him.

18
00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:59,640
Speaker 1: Many people from his administration have resigned or married each

19
00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,760
Speaker 1: other or both. He is really in political danger. And

20
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,360
Speaker 1: when someone is in political danger for influenced trading with

21
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,440
Speaker 1: Turkey or doing crimes, they tend to find a way

22
00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,800
Speaker 1: to mister Trump. Because for mister Trump, and he's said this,

23
00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,880
Speaker 1: ethical problems are not necessarily disqualifying, or in fact, they

24
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,480
Speaker 1: may in some cases be qualifying. So here we have

25
00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:29,680
Speaker 1: my man Eric Adams saying that he will basically deport

26
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,319
Speaker 1: migrants and this is the way he's trying to curry

27
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,360
Speaker 1: favor with Trump. Mayor Adams incorrectly asserted, by the way,

28
00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 1: this is the guy who said that cheese is like Heroin.

29
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,840
Speaker 1: He's not factually always completely accurate. May Or Adams on

30
00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,880
Speaker 1: Tuesday incorrectly asserted that undocumented immigrants are not entitled to

31
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,880
Speaker 1: the right of due process under the US Constitution. He said,

32
00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,040
Speaker 1: the Constitution is for Americans.

33
00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:58,720
Speaker 2: That is not true.

34
00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,240
Speaker 1: By the way, the Constitution is for America, but it

35
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 1: does not limit itself to just citizens. And this phrasing

36
00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,280
Speaker 1: the Constitution is for Americans reminds me a whole lot

37
00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,440
Speaker 1: of Stephen Miller, who said America is for Americans, and

38
00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,959
Speaker 1: America is for Americans is a line that was used

39
00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:24,200
Speaker 1: during really darkest times in anti civil rights movement, the

40
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,480
Speaker 1: anti civil rights, the white supremacist movement in this country.

41
00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 1: So it is a really dark that he said this.

42
00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,040
Speaker 1: He continued at a press conferencing I'm not a person

43
00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,680
Speaker 1: that's snuck into this country. My ancestors have been here

44
00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,200
Speaker 1: a long time. Again, not how any of this works

45
00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 1: a country built on immigrants. Legal experts disputed Adam's claims.

46
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 1: They claims have no basis in law. I would add

47
00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,080
Speaker 1: the Mayor's claims have no basis in anything, and never have.

48
00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 1: We're going to have a legal fight that is going

49
00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,480
Speaker 1: to be mind bending here in New York City when

50
00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,800
Speaker 1: Donald tries to start deporting people from a city that

51
00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,959
Speaker 1: has been long a sanctuary city. This is going to

52
00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,960
Speaker 1: get really ugly. And again, I hate this so much,

53
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,400
Speaker 1: and no one wanted this, and it's going to get

54
00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,880
Speaker 1: really ugly, and maybe voters won't care, but I hope

55
00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,560
Speaker 1: that they can see how this serves no one at all.

56
00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. I can't wait for Mayor Adams to roll out

57
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,360
Speaker 3: the red carpeting of the key to the city. These guys. So,

58
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,520
Speaker 3: in speaking of other people who continually disappoint us, we

59
00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,320
Speaker 3: have more fun at the Supreme Court.

60
00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:31,959
Speaker 4: Yeah.

61
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,520
Speaker 1: So Supreme Court today is Wednesday. They're listening to a

62
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,120
Speaker 1: very big oral argument. Again. They won't come out with

63
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:44,040
Speaker 1: an answer until they go on vacation in June because

64
00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,120
Speaker 1: you know never it's important to not have to have

65
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,840
Speaker 1: accountability for your legal decisions. And this is not should

66
00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,560
Speaker 1: not be surprising. Is a state lawn Tennessee is blocking

67
00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,680
Speaker 1: minors from accessing gender affirming care in the state.

68
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,920
Speaker 2: This is just like spaight right in Texas.

69
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,640
Speaker 1: The idea here is that state level law tries to

70
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 1: enact a ban, then you know it'll either get it'll

71
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,680
Speaker 1: either go through or it won't. And then if it

72
00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,480
Speaker 1: goes through, you can see this enacted.

73
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,360
Speaker 2: On a national level.

74
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,920
Speaker 1: And I think it's important to remember, like Republicans are

75
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 1: about to control the Senate, the House, and the presidency.

76
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,760
Speaker 1: So even though they would need sixty votes to enact

77
00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,440
Speaker 1: a federal law, they are working on all sorts of

78
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,599
Speaker 1: complicated legal maneuvering, using laws that are out of date

79
00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:42,040
Speaker 1: or rarely used, doing different kinds of things like that

80
00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:47,880
Speaker 1: to enact different laws to hit different legal loopholes. So

81
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:53,160
Speaker 1: I would be shocked if there was not if there

82
00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:57,320
Speaker 1: was not some kind of you know, this is part

83
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:01,679
Speaker 1: of a larger plan to make things inaccessible. And whether

84
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:07,120
Speaker 1: or not you believe in trans healthcare for children, I

85
00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,760
Speaker 1: think it's worth thinking about whether or not you want

86
00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,919
Speaker 1: the federal government to make choices like this for your children,

87
00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:17,040
Speaker 1: and I think larger than that. This is not necessarily

88
00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,320
Speaker 1: about that. It's about what is the federal government's place

89
00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,200
Speaker 1: in your life and in my life.

90
00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:25,880
Speaker 2: This is very scary.

91
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,840
Speaker 3: I agree, this is not looking good.

92
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,159
Speaker 1: Speaking of the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court has been

93
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,760
Speaker 1: tasked with an ethics code, right, because I don't know

94
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,640
Speaker 1: if you know this, but last year there was quite

95
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,880
Speaker 1: a lot of reporting, and I think it's worth remembering.

96
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,520
Speaker 1: This is why the right hates reporters so much. There

97
00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,919
Speaker 1: was a lot of reporting about Justice Alito and Justice

98
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:53,919
Speaker 1: Thomas getting pressed, taking trips, drinking fine wines and champagnes.

99
00:05:54,400 --> 00:06:00,120
Speaker 1: It was really blockbuster reporting. So the court's three last liberals,

100
00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:05,720
Speaker 1: Kegan Sodamayar and Katanji Brown Jackson, want some kind of

101
00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:10,400
Speaker 1: enforcement of an ethics code, but the Trump judges are

102
00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:11,400
Speaker 1: not fans.

103
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:15,120
Speaker 2: Justice Gorsich objects.

104
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,520
Speaker 1: To the idea of a code that's anything more than voluntary.

105
00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,640
Speaker 1: You'll be shocked to hear that Thomas and Alito benefit

106
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:26,880
Speaker 1: fisuaries of numerous private jet trips also back him up.

107
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:32,160
Speaker 1: So the conservative majority, Gorsa, Chamath Alito do not want

108
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:33,839
Speaker 1: enforcement mechanisms.

109
00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:35,280
Speaker 2: We're sort of seeing.

110
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:36,800
Speaker 1: This play out, and at the end of the day,

111
00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:41,479
Speaker 1: Scotis placed no restrictions on taking gifts, accepting travel, or

112
00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,120
Speaker 1: real estate deals.

113
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,640
Speaker 2: All of which Justice Thomas.

114
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,000
Speaker 1: Has come under fire for doing, which is incredible, right,

115
00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,480
Speaker 1: like just one circuit down, you know this stuff would

116
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,400
Speaker 1: be career ending, but at the highest court in the land,

117
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,840
Speaker 1: you good. So they placed no restrictions on taking gifts,

118
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:03,400
Speaker 1: and the Justice gave themselves a broad carve out for

119
00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,560
Speaker 1: book deals, just as so to my Air received three

120
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,279
Speaker 1: point seven million for her memoir and her children's books

121
00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,640
Speaker 1: came under fire for using court staff for book events.

122
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:16,880
Speaker 1: I mean, these guys could really use an ethics code.

123
00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,280
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously so to my Year. It's not anything

124
00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,240
Speaker 1: like what the situation was with Thomas. But I think

125
00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,040
Speaker 1: it's a really important point that there should be an

126
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:29,720
Speaker 1: ethics code for the Supreme Court and it should be enforceable,

127
00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:35,200
Speaker 1: and instead the code just states that justices should not

128
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,520
Speaker 1: be swayed bipartisan interests. And Michael Wallman, the president of

129
00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 1: the Brenett Center for Justice, who has been on this

130
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,960
Speaker 1: podcast and will again be on this podcast, said these

131
00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,640
Speaker 1: rules are more loophole than law, and I think that's

132
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:53,760
Speaker 1: a really important point. These guys really need to have

133
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:59,239
Speaker 1: ethical guardrails. And it's just as we say a Shonda.

134
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 1: Tim O'Brien is an editor at Bloomberg Opinion. Welcome Back,

135
00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 1: Too Fast Politics, Tim O'Brien.

136
00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 4: I'm Molly, how are you? Oh, I'm Marvi. Everything's normal

137
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,000
Speaker 4: in America right now.

138
00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:24,200
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this because you're so smart. It's true,

139
00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,880
Speaker 1: and we're so fucked as a country. But it's like

140
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:30,880
Speaker 1: one of these moments where it feels like it's sort

141
00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,720
Speaker 1: of a little bit beyond reality. I always feel like

142
00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:36,680
Speaker 1: before a new administration comes in, there's always a sense

143
00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:40,400
Speaker 1: that perhaps everything we thought about them was wrong, and

144
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,720
Speaker 1: maybe they will be this, you know. I feel like

145
00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,800
Speaker 1: this happened before the first Trump admin too, that perhaps

146
00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,600
Speaker 1: all of us are overreacting. Discuss so one.

147
00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,040
Speaker 4: You sort of want to, like Q Rod Serling right

148
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,760
Speaker 4: to say, like, right, imagine the country, you know, governed

149
00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:02,000
Speaker 4: by an unhinged individual with no object expertise or Pollo's interest.

150
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,559
Speaker 1: Elected because he was afraid of going to jail.

151
00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,920
Speaker 4: Well, I think that's why he was passionate about running.

152
00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,640
Speaker 4: For sure, you wanted to get out of jail free card.

153
00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:14,040
Speaker 4: I think Trump one point zero had real consequences. There

154
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,960
Speaker 4: wasn't the kind of institutional wrecking ball impact that people

155
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,640
Speaker 4: were concerned about them that I think could very well

156
00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,960
Speaker 4: happen in Trump two point zero. But the Supreme Court

157
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,000
Speaker 4: had a generational change that is affecting people's lives. You

158
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,280
Speaker 4: just need to look at reproductive rights as one example

159
00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:34,200
Speaker 4: of that. I think the US is standing in the

160
00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,480
Speaker 4: world as a kind of enforcer of democratic norms when

161
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 4: it's behaving well has been diminished and people took advantage

162
00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,280
Speaker 4: of that. And then I think domestically, just the what

163
00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:50,360
Speaker 4: is now considered acceptable kind of public dialogue about really

164
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,079
Speaker 4: important issues has gotten degrade it and we're in the

165
00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,120
Speaker 4: midst of kind of a frat party populated and hosted

166
00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,640
Speaker 4: mainly by white guys.

167
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, the one cold comfort is that he has this

168
00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:10,199
Speaker 1: insane coalition that I think will be very hard to please.

169
00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,480
Speaker 4: Well, because you know, the coalition both parties have spent

170
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,120
Speaker 4: I think since really since the late nineteen seventies and

171
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:22,120
Speaker 4: the nineteen eighties. They're working. Americans in fairly broad numbers

172
00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,880
Speaker 4: have bounced between the parties because their standing in the

173
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,520
Speaker 4: world has been diminished living wages for average Americans has

174
00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,800
Speaker 4: declined significantly since the nineteen eighties, and you have a

175
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:40,880
Speaker 4: big portion of Americans who feel adrip and I don't

176
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:45,360
Speaker 4: think either party has come to their aid with constructive

177
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,440
Speaker 4: long term solutions. And I say that as well with

178
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,960
Speaker 4: the idea that they're it will be hard for anyone

179
00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,320
Speaker 4: to provide constructive long term solutions to some of this

180
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,840
Speaker 4: because we've been in the midst of this epic technological

181
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,400
Speaker 4: change and the old economy got undermined by it. And

182
00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,720
Speaker 4: it's not the first time it's happened in US history.

183
00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,920
Speaker 4: It'll happen again. But our fellow Americans get buffeted and

184
00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,320
Speaker 4: really ruthless and undignified ways on the waves of those things.

185
00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:16,320
Speaker 4: I also think alongside that has been a growing desire

186
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:21,079
Speaker 4: for disenfranchised Americans to become more franchise, and that expresses

187
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,320
Speaker 4: itself in a lot of unmanageable ways, whether they're voters

188
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,400
Speaker 4: of color, or women or new immigrants. You can just

189
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,319
Speaker 4: pick off all the boxes. And historically people will look

190
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,440
Speaker 4: back at this as not twenty sixteen to twenty twenty four,

191
00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 4: but we'll look at it as you know, nineteen eighty

192
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,840
Speaker 4: to twenty twenty four and beyond, and we're just in

193
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,920
Speaker 4: the midst of it, and some of the bigger patterns

194
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,079
Speaker 4: are hard to see, but it's a really we are

195
00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,520
Speaker 4: living in a really intense epoch.

196
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,120
Speaker 1: You've opened the door to me doing something really annoying,

197
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,840
Speaker 1: which is I have been you never do that, and never.

198
00:11:54,240 --> 00:12:00,040
Speaker 1: I've been rereading the paranoid style in American Offseutter. He

199
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,720
Speaker 1: talks about these status elections, elections that are based on

200
00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:12,360
Speaker 1: status anxiety and not necessarily on material more nuanced.

201
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,960
Speaker 4: That it's more about anxiety than financial well being.

202
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:20,439
Speaker 1: And in some ways twenty sixteen, you had voters voting

203
00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,880
Speaker 1: in a much more clear way. Right, you had Hispanic

204
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,720
Speaker 1: and black voters voting for the Democrat. You had white,

205
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,679
Speaker 1: non college educated, white college educated, more of a coalition

206
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,440
Speaker 1: going for Trump. Now that has sort of flipped on

207
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:41,080
Speaker 1: its head in twenty twenty four. So you had Hispanic voters,

208
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,280
Speaker 1: you had some black voters voting for Trump. Was not

209
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,160
Speaker 1: on race and class was a subtext that we have

210
00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,200
Speaker 1: not talked about very much or written about for any

211
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:52,080
Speaker 1: number of reasons.

212
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:54,720
Speaker 2: And I'm wondering if you could just talk about that.

213
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,920
Speaker 4: Well, the other thing I would say, is the other

214
00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:01,040
Speaker 4: kind of great companion book to the paranoid style is

215
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,280
Speaker 4: intellectualism in American life, which, you know, he identified the

216
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 4: kind of resentment of elite that has always run through

217
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:10,559
Speaker 4: American history. You know, it used to be getting a

218
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,280
Speaker 4: college degree was a badge of honor that you were

219
00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,600
Speaker 4: trying to better yourself on the world, and in recent

220
00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:18,000
Speaker 4: years it's become this sort of symbol that you live

221
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 4: in a bubble and you're not solving real world problems

222
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,000
Speaker 4: and you only care about yourself. I never think there

223
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,640
Speaker 4: is one explanation of big voting changes. I think a

224
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,720
Speaker 4: lot of things went into this election, but I think

225
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,920
Speaker 4: you can't ignore basic pocketbook issues and that are so intense.

226
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:34,680
Speaker 4: And when I say, I think, I would, you know,

227
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,240
Speaker 4: inflation became this barometer for like the bogeyman that was

228
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,880
Speaker 4: haunting consumers because they were seeing higher gas prices and

229
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 4: higher growthcery prices. I just think it's actually the straw

230
00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,800
Speaker 4: that broke the camel's back. I think the larger issue

231
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,720
Speaker 4: has been affordability. Average Americans feel like they can't afford houses,

232
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,640
Speaker 4: and they can't afford college for their kids, and they

233
00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:58,439
Speaker 4: can't stay for the retirements in total, they actually can't

234
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,800
Speaker 4: get a piece of the American dream, and that ties

235
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,280
Speaker 4: into people's dignity and their sense of themselves in the world,

236
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,160
Speaker 4: and I think that does play out as anxiety, and

237
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,080
Speaker 4: I would dive from that off fetterish analysis in that regard,

238
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,200
Speaker 4: and that I think that the reason Latino voters and

239
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,200
Speaker 4: black voters moved in meaningful ways along with white women

240
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 4: towards Trump, which I think that's a different cohort why

241
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,400
Speaker 4: white women landed where they did, But for black and

242
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,000
Speaker 4: Latino voters, to me, I read that as yes, they

243
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,480
Speaker 4: care about race, and yes they care about their own

244
00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,480
Speaker 4: cultural identities, but first and foremost, they want to put

245
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,760
Speaker 4: bread on the tables for their families, and they will

246
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,480
Speaker 4: ally themselves with whoever presents a path through prosperity to them.

247
00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,880
Speaker 4: And the thing about Trump that is damning in that

248
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,240
Speaker 4: mix is he has no real interest in doing that.

249
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,160
Speaker 4: He just rides on this historic brand of the Republicans

250
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:52,160
Speaker 4: is being better for business than Democrats, when if you

251
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,880
Speaker 4: look at the data, democratic presidents that presided over bigger

252
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,680
Speaker 4: GDP growth far more often than Republicans. And then Trump

253
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:03,240
Speaker 4: has this like the host of The Apprentice Mojo and

254
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,520
Speaker 4: I think the anxiety that comes out of economic uncertainty

255
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 4: of cruised to Trump in this moment because he's seen

256
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,600
Speaker 4: as a better economic steward. But I think that's how

257
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,360
Speaker 4: I'm built on stand says, I ask your question and

258
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:16,680
Speaker 4: I go in a completely different direction.

259
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,520
Speaker 1: Well, it just got me thinking about something else, which

260
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,760
Speaker 1: is Trump. He ran for election on this idea that

261
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,040
Speaker 1: he would make things cheaper, right, which was people were

262
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,560
Speaker 1: upset about inflation. Some of that inflation it was transitory,

263
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:35,080
Speaker 1: but longer than we thought. Some of that inflation was because,

264
00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,040
Speaker 1: like the inflation when it comes to mortgages, was because

265
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:43,280
Speaker 1: the Fed raised interest rates, so everything was more expensive

266
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 1: when it came to money, monetary stuff. You know, to

267
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,680
Speaker 1: be able to borrow money. There is no way to

268
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,960
Speaker 1: make things less expensive except to regulate prices, which no

269
00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,240
Speaker 1: one wants to do in a capitalist country.

270
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,440
Speaker 4: But you know what, you can make them more affordable

271
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:00,200
Speaker 4: by paying people a better way.

272
00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,400
Speaker 1: Which is what Democrats were trying to do. But Trump,

273
00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:05,960
Speaker 1: I just want you to address this fundamental problem that

274
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 1: Trump has, which is he has promised to do something.

275
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:09,960
Speaker 2: It's undoable.

276
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:13,680
Speaker 4: It's not only undoable, it is he's actually in pursuit

277
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:17,239
Speaker 4: policies that maya words right. He wants to impose tariffs

278
00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,440
Speaker 4: on Mexico and China that would cause import prices despite

279
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,400
Speaker 4: and the cost of those would all get passed along

280
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,280
Speaker 4: to consumers. He also wants to deport a mass deportation

281
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:31,080
Speaker 4: of eleven million immigrants who are central. A large portion

282
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:35,120
Speaker 4: of them are central through the construction business and to

283
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:40,040
Speaker 4: hotels and farming and restaurants and home services, et cetera,

284
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,800
Speaker 4: et cetera. And if they disappear, the labor prices are

285
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,120
Speaker 4: going to go up. And if labor prices go up,

286
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,479
Speaker 4: the cost of living's going to go as wealth for Americans.

287
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:53,920
Speaker 4: Trump is a profoundly ignorant man. He latches onto ideas

288
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 4: that he will, as he said his first term, only

289
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,200
Speaker 4: I can fix it, and he presents absurd fixes to

290
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 4: complicated But the real thing he benefits from is that

291
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 4: his cult believes him.

292
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,239
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm wondering if you can talk about sort of

293
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:12,400
Speaker 1: like the tension here. For example, Trump has nominated Basant,

294
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:17,200
Speaker 1: who is a pretty sort of I would say, largely.

295
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,320
Speaker 4: Normal mainstream Wall Street god.

296
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:24,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, made money managing for George Soros discussed.

297
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,960
Speaker 4: Gave money get a Democrat back in the day. I've

298
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,040
Speaker 4: sort of wondered, like when the Trumpies are going to

299
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,240
Speaker 4: discover this Soros thing and really decide that George Soros

300
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,520
Speaker 4: is taking over the world now that he's put an

301
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,639
Speaker 4: acolyte inside the Treasury Department. You know, that's like Taylor

302
00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,400
Speaker 4: made for a Trump World conspiracy, but it hasn't really

303
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 4: surfaced yet. I have to wonder what Scott Besson said

304
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,400
Speaker 4: to Donald Trump to get nominated for this job, because,

305
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 4: you know, the Treasury secretary, unlike the iffse secretary, Secretary

306
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,560
Speaker 4: of State, some of the other cabinet roles, it's not

307
00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,760
Speaker 4: that powerful a position in the White House, and Fed

308
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,879
Speaker 4: Chairman economically is much more powers than treasury secretaries. The

309
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 4: Preasury secretaries often become a spokes person for the economic

310
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,040
Speaker 4: goals of an administration, and when they're really good, they're

311
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 4: super effective, like Bob Rubin was, you know, or Jim

312
00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:20,359
Speaker 4: Baker with different administrations. And so Besson's going to have

313
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,399
Speaker 4: this tension which between what he knows actually works around

314
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,119
Speaker 4: economic fixes and economic growths and the malarkey that flows

315
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 4: out of Donald Trump's mouth like a fire hydrant. And

316
00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,840
Speaker 4: he cannot have gotten this job without I think saying

317
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,200
Speaker 4: to Trump, I will be pro pare, and I will

318
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 4: be pro deportation, and I will be pro strong dollar,

319
00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,919
Speaker 4: all these things that have economic impact that Trump backs

320
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,639
Speaker 4: and which bessn't if he's still thinking the fact pattern

321
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 4: can't really believe. So will he continue to sort of

322
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,040
Speaker 4: say these things Trump wants him to say, is the

323
00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:58,280
Speaker 4: economic megaphones for the administration or will he actually start

324
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,439
Speaker 4: talking about what he really believes and then you know,

325
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,000
Speaker 4: his life span within the Trump administration shortens dramatically.

326
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 1: It does seem like there's a lot of behind the

327
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 1: scenes stuff happening with Republican senators and these cabinet appointments.

328
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 1: It seems like they're sort of articulating their views to

329
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 1: Trump and his people, and then there's kind of back

330
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,120
Speaker 1: and forth playing out in front of us. We see

331
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 1: this right now with the DoD hegsats. It seems like

332
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 1: they're sort of hit a moment with reporting where people

333
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:33,399
Speaker 1: have decided.

334
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,920
Speaker 4: Too many Trump parties, right, too many strip clubs. One

335
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,160
Speaker 4: strip club was okay, but by the time it got

336
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,800
Speaker 4: to like the tenth strip club or.

337
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 5: Whatever, it's the fourth adulterous affair, And you know, the

338
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,800
Speaker 5: mother's email was problematic, but I guess he was on

339
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,240
Speaker 5: as we record, he had, I think, done a fots

340
00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 5: interviewed this morning with them to try to rehabilitate him.

341
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 4: I think the interesting thing to me about the Senate

342
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,919
Speaker 4: is you have Republicans there trying to stand up for

343
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 4: their institutional prerogatives that are historic and well beloved by

344
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,639
Speaker 4: senators themselves at both parties, and I think there's a

345
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 4: meaningful number of Republican centators who don't want to get

346
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 4: steamrolled by Trump. And that obviously first surfaced with Gates,

347
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,199
Speaker 4: but actually it surfaced before Gates. It surfaced with the

348
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,080
Speaker 4: tussle over the Senate Majority leader, right where there was

349
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 4: obviously pressure by the MAGA Lonis to have Rick Scott

350
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:25,760
Speaker 4: the in the Senate Majority leader.

351
00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the richest man in the world, Leon Musk.

352
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 4: Yes, And there was a social media pressure for that,

353
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,879
Speaker 4: and within Marlo Lago there was pressure for it, and

354
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,159
Speaker 4: the Senate said no, John Thup, And I think that

355
00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 4: was an important moment. Whether or not that means they

356
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,240
Speaker 4: have the kind of backbone you would want for them

357
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,400
Speaker 4: to stand up for core American values for the next

358
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 4: four years, we'll have to see, but they certainly felt like, no,

359
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 4: we will run our house the way we want, not

360
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,480
Speaker 4: the way Donald Trump wants to. And then Gates got punted.

361
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,399
Speaker 4: And you know you saw Stusan Collins and some others

362
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,400
Speaker 4: early on say yeah, I don't know, this one makes

363
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 4: me nervous. That started to happen around Haig step. But

364
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 4: when you look at the list, we still have Tulcy

365
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,840
Speaker 4: Gabbert in there, and on and on, and you know,

366
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 4: Robert Kennedy Jr. You know, these aren't confident people with

367
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 4: long track records. And Trump is flooding the zones. So

368
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 4: the Stenate really to play a meaningful role here is

369
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 4: going to have to stand up repeatedly. And I don't

370
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 4: know if they've got the appetite or interest in doing that.

371
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 4: Will have to see.

372
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 1: I wrote this piece this week where I said, you know,

373
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,400
Speaker 1: the Senate must be forced to stand up because Article two,

374
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:34,400
Speaker 1: Section two, this is our job, Timothy Snyder, protect institutions.

375
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: This is an institution in the Senate protecting a really

376
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,800
Speaker 1: important institution, the President's cabinet.

377
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 2: I wrote this, and then I thought, you're such an idiot.

378
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:46,160
Speaker 2: They're not going to protect the institutions.

379
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 1: Like and a lot of pundits were saying, well, you know,

380
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,159
Speaker 1: they only can take one scalp, so this means everyone

381
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 1: else is going to get through.

382
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 4: That is the test of the Trump era is whether

383
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 4: or not people will transcend their narrow electoral interests or

384
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,679
Speaker 4: of being sliined by Donald Trump. To simply say, I

385
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 4: believe in that. You know, everyone remarks on Abraham Lincoln

386
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 4: for good reason as a sort of standard bearer for

387
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,920
Speaker 4: doing the right thing. But he had a moral code

388
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 4: that he lived by and it governed his decisions his

389
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 4: entire left, and he was fallible, but he died for

390
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 4: those values, and he oversaw a war for those values.

391
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 4: And we've done that throughout our history. Whether or not

392
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 4: you know this Republican Party right now is willing to

393
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 4: stand up for stuff that is baked into the Constitution

394
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 4: is going to be tested with Trump in a way.

395
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,280
Speaker 4: It wasn't an administration because this first administration, he was

396
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 4: in preschool. And I'm not prepared to say he's in

397
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 4: college now because he needed help to get into college,

398
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 4: as you recall. But he's in high school and he

399
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 4: knows enough like to get the car keys and take

400
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 4: the car somewhere from We'll have to see.

401
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 1: But the central tension is still the same, right Trump

402
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 1: with the aid of this Heritage Foundation, anti government wing

403
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,919
Speaker 1: of the repub Party. So it'll be there's going to

404
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: be real tension between what Trump wants, which is to

405
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 1: be popular and to spend money, and what this Heritage

406
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 1: world wants.

407
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 4: Right totally, and what they actually are prepared to absorb

408
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 4: in the service of that vision. You know, the lion's

409
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 4: share of government spending is entitlement programs, you know, Medicare, Medicaid,

410
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 4: social Security plus defense. That's basically the whole mcgillo. They're

411
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 4: not going to take anything out of defense spending. And

412
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 4: by the way, Elon Musk benefits from big contracts as

413
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 4: companies get through the Defense Department. So are they going

414
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 4: to take out Social Security and alienate seniors while they're

415
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 4: cutting taxes that make it harder to fund Social Security.

416
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 4: The mathematics here are daunting, and the impact of what

417
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 4: they're going to do, if they really intend to carry

418
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 4: it out, is daunting. And that comes back to how

419
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 4: much of a bomb thrower is Donald Trump? Is he

420
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 4: willing to sort of detonate his parties alone actual prospects

421
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 4: because he's only going to stay for one term. In theory,

422
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 4: or are they going to start to look at what

423
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 4: blowback they get when they try to implement some of

424
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 4: these things and they'll back down again. I feel like

425
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,240
Speaker 4: it's hard to predict which way that's going to go.

426
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,840
Speaker 1: No, no, exactly, and I think that's a really good point.

427
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: It's also a lot is at stake here. Thank you,

428
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: thank you, Thank you, Tim.

429
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 4: O'Brien, Thank you, Molly. It's always a treat talking rule.

430
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: Molly Redden is a reporter of Pro Publica. Welcome back

431
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: to Fast Politics.

432
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 6: Molly, thank you so much for having me.

433
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 2: I'm glad to be here. I'm really excited to have you.

434
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: Before we start this interview, I just want to be

435
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: very annoying here to.

436
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 2: Our listeners for a second. You right, for Pro Publica.

437
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 1: There's like a new, very scary phenomenon where the left

438
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: is also mad at.

439
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: The mainstream media.

440
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: And I know that a lot of listeners' podcast are

441
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 1: slightly on the left, varying degrees, some center left, some

442
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: center center. But without reporting like what you do, all

443
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,760
Speaker 1: of Trump's nominees would have sailed through all of the

444
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,120
Speaker 1: things that Trump is doing behind the scenes to undermine

445
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: the federal government. Would work, and so it's just so

446
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,880
Speaker 1: important that we support organizations like Pro Publica.

447
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 2: Okay, anyway, it's done.

448
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: Sorry, that's very annoying, but you wrote this great piece,

449
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: really important about how Trump plans to seize the power

450
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: of the person from Congress. This is like not getting

451
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 1: nearly as much attention as the sexy nominees who are

452
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: you know, alcoholic lunatics. But this is the sort of

453
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: russ Vat kind of stuff that's happening behind the scenes

454
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: and so important.

455
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: So can you talk to us about this?

456
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 4: Yeah?

457
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 6: Thanks, So okay. At its very most basic impoundment is

458
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 6: this theory that the president does not have to actually

459
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 6: spend the money that Congress appropriates, so spending bills, the

460
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 6: federal budget, it starts in Congress, it gets negotiated in Congress,

461
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 6: and then they pass a budget or they pass budget bills,

462
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 6: bills funding programs and services that we're all familiar with,

463
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 6: and then the president signs them and you know, executive brand,

464
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 6: the president has a lot of power to decide how

465
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 6: the money gets spent in order to accomplish the goals

466
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 6: that Congress spelled out. But under our constitution, the president

467
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 6: doesn't get a line item veto. The president doesn't get

468
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 6: to say, no, I don't like that program, so I'm

469
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 6: not spending the money. And what Trump and some of

470
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 6: his very close budget advisors the theory that they're pushing

471
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 6: is actually, yes, he does. He does get to say

472
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 6: that if he simply doesn't like a program, if he

473
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 6: thinks it's wasteful, he can impound the funds or simply

474
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 6: refuse to spend them.

475
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 1: That seems like a very big shift in the way

476
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 1: Congress operates. How would mag a world be able to

477
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 1: do this.

478
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 6: It would be a huge shift, you know. Right now,

479
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,919
Speaker 6: the executive branch, as I said, they do have some

480
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 6: control over how money gets spent. They get to decide

481
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 6: what are the parameters for a program getting this grant

482
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 6: for example, again a very basic example, but yeah, it

483
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,360
Speaker 6: would be an enormous shift. It would essentially say Congress

484
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 6: doesn't have the power of the person anymore. Congress can

485
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 6: never tell a president to spend money. It can only

486
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 6: give him the option. It would take an Act of

487
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 6: Congress to one overturn a law that they passed in

488
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 6: the seventies after Richard Nixon tried to pull this off

489
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 6: and Ah clarified, no, we think the Constitution says that, like,

490
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 6: you absolutely cannot do that, and then it would probably

491
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,719
Speaker 6: also take a Supreme Court challenge because not only is

492
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 6: there this law, and the law at its most basic

493
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 6: says it's called the Impolment Control active nineteen seventy four,

494
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 6: and it clarifies that the president can't just kill programs

495
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 6: he opposes or are exceptions, but it clarifies that we beleep.

496
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 6: The Constitution says you can't do that. But also this

497
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,719
Speaker 6: is a really radical reading of the Constitution, and so

498
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 6: there would probably be a court challenge. There would probably

499
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 6: be multiple federal court challenges if they tried to defund

500
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 6: certain programs using impoundment, and you know, it would probably

501
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 6: ultimately wind up at the Supreme Court. And just a

502
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 6: note too on overturning this Impoundment Control Act, they're essentially

503
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 6: asking Congress to give up one of their very core duties.

504
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 6: And I think that's really important to emphasize. I mean,

505
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 6: you talked about some of Trump's planned nominations for his

506
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 6: cabinet that are now facing trouble, and I think it's

507
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 6: really important to understand that doing this this would really

508
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 6: take Congress just sort of rolling over and giving Trump

509
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 6: exactly what he wants, and that that is a real

510
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 6: step here and a real open question. Trump has said

511
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 6: he wants to see the Senate go into recess so

512
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 6: he can make recess appointments and his various nominations don't

513
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 6: have to face public scrutiny. And so far senators have said,

514
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 6: we're not really interested in giving up one of our

515
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 6: horror jobs here. And so I think it's really important

516
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 6: to think about, you know, there are actors here who

517
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 6: are going to face choices if he tries to pick

518
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 6: this fite over impoundments.

519
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Trump again and again comes back to the Nixon playbook. Right,

520
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: he did this in his first administration. He's trying to

521
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: undermine some of the legal anti corruption stuff put in

522
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: after Nixon. Like, we really do see how democracy could

523
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: have gone off the rails after Nixon. But there were

524
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: Republicans who weren't complete partisans.

525
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 2: Now that is not the case.

526
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: One of the things that I struck by is that

527
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: there's a lot of use of these unusual or just

528
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: sort of not typical, you know, things that are not

529
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: you know, haven't been used in a long time, like

530
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: the Comstock Act or the Alien Enemies Act, things that

531
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 1: were not repealed but really are not in practice, and

532
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: then also sort of taking away acts like this act.

533
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: So talk to me about this sort of weird way

534
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: they're going through legislation and picking and choosing.

535
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, so, okay, some of the history here, there are

536
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 6: some historical examples of presidents saying I'm not going to

537
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 6: spend the money that Congress appropriated for this program.

538
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: Ooh, excellent, tell me.

539
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I had to learn about gunboats on

540
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 6: the Mississippi for this story. And this is sort of

541
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 6: like the original or example for constitutional scholars who are

542
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 6: into this debate. Thomas Jefferson eighteen oh three said he

543
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 6: was not going to spend some money that Congress appropriated

544
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 6: to place gunboats on the Mississippi River. And the debate

545
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 6: over this is the law in the text of the

546
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 6: law itself said we're giving you money for no more

547
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 6: than fifteen gun boats and no more than fifty thousand dollars.

548
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 6: And what that meant was Jefferson essentially had discretion to

549
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 6: decide whether or not this money was necessary to spend,

550
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 6: and that was written down in the text of the law,

551
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 6: and he said, I don't think this is necessary, and

552
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 6: those are the kinds of examples you see throughout history

553
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 6: is presidents taking these like really narrow exceptions that Congress

554
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 6: actually allowed them to make. You know, Congress said like, hey,

555
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 6: they're almost all in the military context. So Congress is

556
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 6: essentially saying like, hey, we understand this is a military situation.

557
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 6: Things shift rapidly on the ground, more rapidly than we

558
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 6: Congress can respond to, and so we're giving you, like

559
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 6: we're actually writing down that you do have the option.

560
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 6: And so throughout history, when you see presidents exercising their

561
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 6: impoundment ability or claiming they have that ability, it's usually

562
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 6: in that context, and sometimes they get challenged and sometimes

563
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 6: they back down. What Nixon did was take this theory

564
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 6: to a new extreme and tried to use the concept

565
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 6: of that he had this impoundment power to gut billions

566
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,400
Speaker 6: of dollars from programs he simply didn't like water treatment,

567
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 6: drug rehabilitation programs, and local communities disaster relief for farmers.

568
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 6: He thought this was wasteful spending. But in these budget bills,

569
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 6: Congress never said, hey, up to you. These standard appropriations

570
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 6: that Congress was making for programs that they had a

571
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 6: baited felt represented their constituents and Nixon just didn't like them.

572
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 6: Organizations and programs took Nixon took court about a half

573
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 6: dozen federal judges rules that just on the text of

574
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 6: the law, you can't do this. The Supreme Court ultimately waited,

575
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 6: and not on the constitutional issue of when he could

576
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 6: do this, but again reading the text of the law

577
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 6: and saying, no, these laws don't give you the flexibility

578
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 6: to cut these programs. So he lost almost across the

579
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 6: board in federal court when these were decided on the merits.

580
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 6: And then also Congress stepped in to pass a law

581
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 6: after Watergate saying just to clarify, you cannot do that.

582
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 6: That's sort of where we are. And since then generally

583
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 6: presidents have understood, like, I don't get a line item

584
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 6: veido when they've sort of tried again and they've gotten

585
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 6: shot down in various contexts. And that's the fight that

586
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 6: Trump wants to pick. One way he wants to do

587
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 6: that is through Listeners are probably familiar with the Vidic

588
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 6: Gramaswami and Elon Musk committee that's going to propose about

589
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 6: two trillion in cuts, they say, doze or the Department

590
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 6: of Government Efficiency. There are lots of tools that they

591
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 6: could use to try to those cuts. But this is

592
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 6: one of the ones that they have talked about. They've

593
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 6: talked about sort of being the Supreme Court last case.

594
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 6: In a recent Wall Street Journal op ed.

595
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, it strikes me that it seems like the crew

596
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: addoge wants to work with the sort of heritage crew,

597
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: the Russ spot at omb that these are two separate

598
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: groups that have interest that collide. Is there more connection

599
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: here than we're seeing.

600
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, this idea, this impoundment idea, comes from a man

601
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 6: who you and I have talked about poor named Russ Vote.

602
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 6: He was the Office of Management and Budget director in

603
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 6: Trump's first term, and that is the office that that

604
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,959
Speaker 6: has that power I was talking about earlier to sort

605
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 6: of decide, Okay, Congress wrote us the check, how do

606
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 6: we get the money out the door in a way

607
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 6: that aligns with our politics, our ideology. That's essentially what

608
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 6: the Office of Management and Budget does under any president.

609
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 6: They're the gatekeeper for the flow of money, and it's

610
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 6: a political appointment, so you can make political decisions about

611
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 6: it to some extent. So after the first Trump administration,

612
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 6: he found a think tank that really tried to spread

613
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 6: this idea, but Vote, who Trump has now said he

614
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 6: wants in this role again in his second administration. He

615
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 6: is really skilled at finding other ways that don't pick

616
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 6: this high level impoundment fight to control the flow of

617
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 6: money in a way that achieves the MAGA goals. And

618
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 6: you know, that's something that Muska and Ramaswami have also

619
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 6: talked about, that they don't want to just use this

620
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 6: impoundment power. They want to change the classification for lots

621
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 6: of civil servants. This is another idea that Vote and

622
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,279
Speaker 6: his think tank, which is called the Center for Anew

623
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 6: in America, that they've popularized that Trump can reclassify tens

624
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 6: of thousands of civil servants so that they can be

625
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 6: fired more easily to schedule effs, and Vote was instrumental

626
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 6: and putting that partially in place at the very very

627
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 6: tail end of the Trump administration for his department. The

628
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 6: Biden administration rolled that back, but there are all signals

629
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,960
Speaker 6: that when the Trump administration gets into office again that

630
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 6: they are going to reinstate that they're going to reinstate

631
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 6: that for a really broad class of civil servants. Fifty

632
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 6: thousand is a number that gets thrown around a lot,

633
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 6: and so that's another way that they can cut the budget,

634
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 6: not only through you know, those civil servants salaries, but

635
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 6: the programs they oversee, the things that they execute exactly.

636
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: This is like one of these things where it seems

637
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: like it's going to be very hard for them to

638
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: do this, But it also seems like these are the

639
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: smartest people in Trump world. Not Elon or Leon as

640
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,760
Speaker 1: Trump calls him in vague but vaugh seems very very smart.

641
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: And so I'm wondering, you just talked to me through

642
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 1: the legal challenges that this would would hit, but like, politically,

643
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: don't you think this is going to be hard for them?

644
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 6: I think it will be very difficult for them. Part

645
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 6: of the way that I predict, based on the first

646
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 6: Trump administration, they will try to get around that difficulty

647
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:33,919
Speaker 6: is that even impoundment, if they choose not to pick

648
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 6: the fight very publicly, can be done subtly or secretly,

649
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 6: or moves that achieve the same thing as impoundment without

650
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 6: being technically impoundment, that achieve the goal of we just

651
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 6: don't want to spend this federal money for you know,

652
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 6: whatever reason. That can be done very quietly and subtly.

653
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 6: The federal government is big, dense. The number of people

654
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 6: who like understand what technical impoundment looks like, what a

655
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 6: change and a grant rule looks like. That is achieving

656
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 6: a political goal. It's small, it's technical. It's annoying to

657
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,799
Speaker 6: figure out. I mean, the best example we have of

658
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 6: Trump using his impoundment powers or trying to is at

659
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 6: the end of his first term when he held up

660
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 6: about four hundred million dollars in military aid to Ukraine.

661
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:30,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

662
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, as a way to try to pressure President Zelenski

663
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:38,840
Speaker 6: and opening your corruption Investigationiden, right, Yeah, part of that money,

664
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 6: not all four hundred million. But a US Government Accountability

665
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 6: office later ruled that that violated the Impoundment Control Act,

666
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 6: the seventy four Nixon Law, and that only came to

667
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 6: light because of whistleblowers. Some of it was reported at

668
00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 6: the time, but sort of the extent and the ask,

669
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 6: the corrupt ask involved the fact that it was for

670
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 6: ideological reasons, not for you know, oh, technically we feel

671
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 6: we don't need to spend this money reasons. Part of

672
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,560
Speaker 6: that came to light through a whistleblower, and so you know,

673
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 6: even that it took time, it took investigation to establish

674
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 6: that that's what was going on here. And in the meantime,

675
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 6: Trump has lots of other lovers that he legally can

676
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 6: pull to just not spend money or maybe arguably legally.

677
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 6: One example somebody pointed out to me is after some

678
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 6: really devastating wildfires in California and Washington during his term,

679
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 6: Trump just refused to sign Master deck Work.

680
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 2: Right I remember this, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

681
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 6: Like in one case, indefinitely. In one case he eventually

682
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 6: did do it, but that's because he didn't want to

683
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 6: unlock federal relief aid for states that hadn't voted for him.

684
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 6: And that is a power that the president has whether

685
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 6: or not to sign a federal disaster declaration, and it

686
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 6: unlocks about of money if he does, so, you know,

687
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 6: those are there's a huge range of things he can

688
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,840
Speaker 6: do to simply stop money going out the door. And

689
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 6: it's going to you know, it's complicated, it's subtle. It's

690
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 6: going to take investigation to find out.

691
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 2: That is wild. I mean, I shouldn't say wild.

692
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: It's really really insane and scary and also just something

693
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: that we need to be doggedly following.

694
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,720
Speaker 2: I really appreciate you, Molly, thanks so much.

695
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 6: For having me.

696
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 2: No moment full Jesse Cannon.

697
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 3: Oh Molly, there's going to be so much more. This

698
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 3: isn't there So a court and Idaho has ruled that

699
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 3: they can ban interstate abortion travel for minors. What are

700
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 3: you seeing here?

701
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,279
Speaker 2: We know this was coming right.

702
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: This is the thing where Trump said he wasn't going

703
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: to ban abortion on a federal level, and then here

704
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: we are with these little kind of chip away on abortion.

705
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: So here is another idea here that Idaho wants to

706
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 1: keep minors from being able to travel for an abortion.

707
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 2: This is not okay.

708
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: It supposedly states rights that now you can't travel to

709
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: a different state. I mean, it's just this is where

710
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: this is all going. This is all going to a

711
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: federal band. This is all going to you know, women

712
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: having less and less rights. The Idaho Attorney General, a

713
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,760
Speaker 1: vocal opponent of abortion, called the ruling a tremendous victory.

714
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more dystopia. That's it for this episode

715
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:48,239
Speaker 1: of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and

716
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make sense

717
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, please

718
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

719
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening,