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Speaker 1: Why from our nations this budget thing is going to

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Speaker 1: do nothing space forts. I still think it's interesting President

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Speaker 1: Trump not playing his cards yet. Headlines Policy and politics

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Speaker 1: colliding Floomberg Sound On, the Insiders, the influencers, the insides.

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Speaker 1: I would rather see a congressional solution. It's part of

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Speaker 1: my DNA. The Senate map in looks a lot different

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Speaker 1: than it looked in. You really have a divide within

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Speaker 1: Team Trump. The president has to do exactly what people

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Speaker 1: send him here to do, which is to get it done.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Shirley on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: and point seven h D two. US stocks tumble on

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Speaker 1: economy as DAL falls the most in two thousand and nineteen.

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Speaker 1: Mohammed Allerion checks in to guide us through what many

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Speaker 1: are saying could be the start of another recession. Will

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Speaker 1: get the latest on the wild ride on the markets,

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Speaker 1: and Matt Whittaker is here. He is going to also

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Speaker 1: have He is also going to tell us about what

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Speaker 1: life has been like following his time as the former

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Speaker 1: acting Attorney General inside of the Trump White House. We

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Speaker 1: dive into all of that, plus his take on Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 1: Will bring you the latest I'm joined in studio by

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Speaker 1: Matthew Whittaker. He has general counsel now a PCE matic

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Speaker 1: and he, of course is the former acting Attorney General.

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Speaker 1: Matt thanks so much for being here, appreciate the time.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with China because the markets have

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Speaker 1: been on a wild roller coaster today, the US stocks

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Speaker 1: suffering one of the deepest sell offs of the year

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Speaker 1: and treasury surging as mounting signs of a global economic

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Speaker 1: slowdown stoked fears for a potential recession. I'm reading my

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Speaker 1: colleagues reporting on the Bloomberg terminal. You've negotiated with China

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Speaker 1: when you were a member of the Trump administration. What

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Speaker 1: do you say to folks who are wondering when is

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Speaker 1: this going to get back on tracks? Yeah, I was

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Speaker 1: over in China a year ago in August, went to Beijing,

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Speaker 1: met with UM very high ranking UM Ministry of Justice

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Speaker 1: and other UM law enforcement departments in their and their deputies,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we were trying, we were really working

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Speaker 1: hard on the fentanyl trade and trying to get them

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Speaker 1: to an agreement where they would schedule fentanyl and make

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Speaker 1: it a crime to produce fentyl in China. And and

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Speaker 1: then there, thereby reducing the amount of importation into the

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Speaker 1: United States. And I don't want to interrupt it, but

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Speaker 1: just for folks who aren't familiar with fentanyl, this is

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Speaker 1: a mathe This is a massive piece of solving the

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Speaker 1: addiction crisis in the United States now it is, and

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Speaker 1: it's also what's causing the overdose deaths of opioids because

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Speaker 1: people get a hold fentanyl laced in some other drug

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Speaker 1: and it's it's so powerful that it oftentimes leads to

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Speaker 1: death if in the wrong amount. So I remember this

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Speaker 1: because President Trump was thrilled about this. My colleague, my

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Speaker 1: friend Jen Jacob, she had reported on this saying that

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Speaker 1: this was a massive sign of of US China tensions

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Speaker 1: potentially de escalating. Then the other week we get this

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Speaker 1: news that the Chinese are going back on their word.

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Speaker 1: And now, of course we were in this heightened environment

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Speaker 1: of the administration labeling China currency manipulator tariffs. We're getting

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Speaker 1: the word this week at half of the three billion

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Speaker 1: dollars worth of tariffs will actually be implemented December. So

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Speaker 1: there's been all of these mixed signals, all of these

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Speaker 1: mixed messages. From your vantage point, again, how do we

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Speaker 1: get the ship back on course. Well, so if you

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Speaker 1: if you talk to the experts on China, and in

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Speaker 1: my experience as well, the Chinese love talking, but it's

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Speaker 1: hard to get them to change course. UM. They have

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Speaker 1: obviously a relationship with the American economy that has taken

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Speaker 1: advantage of our of our open markets and has to

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Speaker 1: some extent used it against US UM in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways. And one of the ways is in the

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Speaker 1: drug trade with fentanyl. Another way is in you know,

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Speaker 1: with sort of the cheap products that they've sent over UM.

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Speaker 1: And I think fundamentally the President of the United States

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Speaker 1: is doing the right thing here by by bringing more

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Speaker 1: pressure to bear. It's obviously not without ancillary um UH

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Speaker 1: challenges as we see with these tariffs UH. And but

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Speaker 1: at the same time, I think the President's right that

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Speaker 1: it's the time was now to confront the Chinese and

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Speaker 1: to make sure that we have a level playing field

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Speaker 1: UM into the future. And the Chinese are obviously unwilling

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Speaker 1: UH to meet us there and to and to truly

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Speaker 1: open their markets and to truly trade fairly on the

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Speaker 1: world stage. Not what akers here. He's the former acting

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Speaker 1: US Attorney General in the Trump administration. What have you

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Speaker 1: been up to since you left? By the way, So

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm I've had announced two affiliations, one with Axiom

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Speaker 1: Strategies or Cloud Public Affairs, uh as kind of my

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Speaker 1: Graves Garrett Law Firm, and as part of that, I've

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Speaker 1: picked up a client as their outside general counsel. And

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Speaker 1: that's PC Manic you mentioned before. It's one of my

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Speaker 1: UM several clients, and I'm really am excited to be

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Speaker 1: working with them as part of my law practice and

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Speaker 1: helping helping them with their business related legal issues. And

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Speaker 1: it's you know, I have several other clients and I'm

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Speaker 1: helping with similar types of issues. But but you know,

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Speaker 1: in PC maddox case, UM, you know, on the cybersecurity

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Speaker 1: front is something that as Attorney General, I got a

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Speaker 1: daily cybersecurity uh uh briefing and it was it was

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Speaker 1: very enlightening to understand kind of how our systems are

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Speaker 1: under assault by both nation states and organized crime. Was

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Speaker 1: it enlightening or was it terrifying? It was more terrifying

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Speaker 1: than But as as as a law enforcement official, UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, you're always looking for information to inform where

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Speaker 1: you can deploy your assets, as that you have limited

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Speaker 1: resources of the FBI and then the other law enforcement

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Speaker 1: agencies at d o J and where you deploy those

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Speaker 1: it's very much informed to use where the threats are

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Speaker 1: very well aware where the threats were coming from and

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Speaker 1: trying to address those um with the FBI and other

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Speaker 1: makes I mean, it's just the tragedy of the of

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Speaker 1: the mass shooting, of the massacres and you mentioned information

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Speaker 1: and when you get those briefings, having the information about

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Speaker 1: Democrats has been on the issue of information sharing. Information

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Speaker 1: sharing between companies like Facebook, Amazon, um, Instagram, Twitter, and

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Speaker 1: whatnot to share with federal agencies but also local law

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Speaker 1: be making threats. And when you share that information that

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Speaker 1: to prevent maybe some of these horrific tragedies from happening. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that public private partnership is so important and I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, law enforcement needs to do its role uh

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Speaker 1: you know, this is this is a vulnerability to our

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Speaker 1: person that's on our platform that that probably needs some

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Speaker 1: we're seeing as we're seeing it more. I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: the social media platforms, especially um are just so new

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Speaker 1: and and and and are not um and disruptive to

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Speaker 1: some extent as to how humans interact that I think

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Speaker 1: that I think law enforcement had to catch up to

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Speaker 1: where these you know, where the twitters and the facebooks

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Speaker 1: how we can both work together to not only strengthen

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Speaker 1: the American economy, but keep that, you know, keep American

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Speaker 1: citizens safe. Are we better prepared from Russia? Hackers and

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Speaker 1: Russian interference and bad actors, you know, hijacking social media

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Speaker 1: have that they've done. Can can we head into twenty

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Speaker 1: I know you were just at the Iowa stay Fair

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Speaker 1: you bumped into like three Democratic presidential candidates. Can we

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Speaker 1: Can we actually feel that we're better prepared? And what

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Speaker 1: do you say to folks? And I've interviewed a lot

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Speaker 1: of Democrats. You tell me that they don't think we're

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Speaker 1: better prepared? Yeah, actually I have without a doubt, I

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Speaker 1: can say unequivocally that we are better prepared than we

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Speaker 1: more to disrupt any misinformation or disruptive campaigns implemented by

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Speaker 1: foreign actors. You know, I think I think in ten

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Speaker 1: we learned a lot of lessons. As you know, though

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Speaker 1: it's an asymmetrical war. I think we did pretty good

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Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen. And I you know, I can't talk

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Speaker 1: And in I think we're gonna be We're gonna be ready.

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Speaker 1: The question is what are they going to do in

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Speaker 1: response for that? Because it's a it is a chess game,

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Speaker 1: and every move we make, they're gonna respond in a

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Speaker 1: different way. And so UM, we should fully expect and

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Speaker 1: we're always going to have Russians and the Chinese and

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Speaker 1: UM and and the republic that we've established under the Constitution.

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Speaker 1: But at the same time, I think UM law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: want to know what you ate at the Ivas State Fair,

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Speaker 1: but more importantly, I want to get your take on

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Speaker 1: other policy and political issues of the day. Matt Whittaker's here.

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Speaker 1: He's the former acting Attorney General. Now he's outside General

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Speaker 1: counsel at PC Matic. You can download the Bloomberg Sound

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Speaker 1: On podcast on Apple iTunes, Bloomberg dot Com, or by

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Speaker 1: downloading the Bloomberg Business App. You can also find us

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Speaker 1: on Radio dot Com, I Heart Radio, and Spotify, Wild

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Speaker 1: Day on Wall Street. Muhammadal Arian checks in coming up

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Speaker 1: later on as well. I'm Kevin CURRELLI Chief Washington correspondent

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Speaker 1: for Bloomberg Television, Bloomberg Radio. And you're listening to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound Dawn with Kevin Surley on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: one and one or five point seven h d two Wednesday, Folks,

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Speaker 1: beautiful day, Beautiful day in the neighborhood. I'm Kevin CEREALI

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Speaker 1: Chief Washington correspondent from Bloomberg Television, Bloomberg Radio. I'm here

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Speaker 1: with Matt Whittaker. Remember him, Matt Whittaker. He's the former

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Speaker 1: acting Attorney General Iowa guy, the guy that said, Mr Chairman,

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Speaker 1: your five minutes are up. What was that like? Uh?

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Speaker 1: So that hearing was surreal and uh I'll never forget it.

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Speaker 1: And you know it was not. Most of the things

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Speaker 1: They were just in the moment I was experiencing it.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the fundamentally, UM Democrats were convinced that

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Speaker 1: I didn't. UM. And they were also convinced that the

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Speaker 1: bad and the various things which you know, he didn't,

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Speaker 1: to that. After that was mostly I mean, I'll never

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Speaker 1: forget one of the you know, I think Congressman Jeffreys

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Speaker 1: asked me, Um, he said, you know, we're trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out, you know, who are you, where did you

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Speaker 1: come from, and how the heck did you become attorney

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Speaker 1: because I mean, this is listen, I mean, according to

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Speaker 1: the Mueller report, they say maybe and correct me if

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Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing in a way that you disagree with, I

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Speaker 1: know you will for that McDon McGann, Trump says, for

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Speaker 1: Trump directs McGann to lie and create a false record,

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Speaker 1: saying Trump never asked him to fire Mueller. Do you

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Speaker 1: think that rises to the level of instruction of justice? Now?

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Speaker 1: I don't think any of those The part part two

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Speaker 1: is very troubling to me. First of all, I think, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of you lay out one side of

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Speaker 1: the evidence without any sort of defense or otherwise, and

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Speaker 1: then you also have this standard that we can't exonerate

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Speaker 1: the president. We can't convict them either, but we can't

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Speaker 1: exonerate him. And I think I think that really UM

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Speaker 1: was a dangerous precedent, and I think it it came

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Speaker 1: out of UM what what Jim Comey did related to

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Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton when he came out and laid out the

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Speaker 1: evidence but said we're not going to charge. And I

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Speaker 1: think this is just sort of what we get in

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Speaker 1: that environment. I wish the Muller team had not done that.

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Speaker 1: I think it's ill advised. And and now it sets

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Speaker 1: a new standard that there are certain people that even

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Speaker 1: though you typically either charge people with the crimes or

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Speaker 1: you decline to prosecute, we now have this third class

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Speaker 1: of people where we get a full read out of

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Speaker 1: all the evidence that was discovered, even though we're not

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Speaker 1: going to charge some me with a crime. And I

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Speaker 1: think it's incredibly dangerous and it's it's it's it's bad

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Speaker 1: for the American system of justice. And now there's this

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Speaker 1: d J Department of Justice I G report and they're

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Speaker 1: investigating the origins of Trump Russia investigation. Are you involved

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Speaker 1: in that? They asked you anything or what can what

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Speaker 1: can you tell us about that? I mean, where do

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Speaker 1: you think even the Trump Russia investigation actually started. So

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Speaker 1: I wasn't at the Department of Justice. I joined in

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Speaker 1: October UM and so I wasn't there when when everything started.

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Speaker 1: And then um, I wasn't involved until he became the

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Speaker 1: acting Attorney General and so and by that time, Um,

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Speaker 1: how would you say that the horse was out of

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Speaker 1: the barn? I mean, you know, sort of we were.

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Speaker 1: We were waiting for the report to be produced. You know,

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Speaker 1: the charges had all been made and and I think

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Speaker 1: the only person that was charged while I was there

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Speaker 1: was it was Roger Stone, if I remember right, And

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Speaker 1: so you know, the the investigation was was over for

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Speaker 1: all intents and purposes. Um. So I really don't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of I don't have any visibility as to

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Speaker 1: what the Inspective General was looking at and and certainly

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't have any information for him. AOC. How Sjudiciary

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Speaker 1: Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler in his district AOC is calling

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Speaker 1: for an investigation into Jeffrey Epstein. What's been going on

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Speaker 1: with him? I mean, he's committed suicide in jail. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you and your old job, you had oversight over all

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Speaker 1: the prisons and what was going on there? What the

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Speaker 1: heck happened with Jeffrey? What's going on? I don't even

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Speaker 1: know where to begin. What should there be an investigation?

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Speaker 1: Do you agree with AOC agree that there should be

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Speaker 1: not only an investigation, but it should be fully transparent

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Speaker 1: as to what happened. So you see what I did,

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Speaker 1: So I saw what you did there. But you know,

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Speaker 1: so this, this investigation and and this um crime is

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Speaker 1: not going to go um. It's not over. It's not

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Speaker 1: gonna go be swept under the rug. And when I

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Speaker 1: say this crime, I mean these horrific human traffic, terrible events.

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Speaker 1: And so there's co conspirators that I know. General Barr

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Speaker 1: has said that, you know, are not h off the hook,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I you know, I think it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be very interesting as well. They just executed search warrants

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Speaker 1: down in the Virgin Islands at this private compound on

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Speaker 1: a private island, and I think that's going to generate

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Speaker 1: a ton of new evidence. And it may it may

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Speaker 1: generate unfortunately new victims can be identified, but more importantly,

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Speaker 1: it could identify some additional perpetrators that could be prosecuted.

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Speaker 1: And so I don't think there's any exoneration based on

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Speaker 1: his death. Um for anybody that was that was with

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Speaker 1: him or did things with him. Um, you know what,

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Speaker 1: My heart breaks for these victims that are not going

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Speaker 1: to get full justice because he's not going to be

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Speaker 1: held to account. President Trump rea tweeted into this thing

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Speaker 1: about the Clinton conspiracy. Do you think there's a Clinton conspiracy?

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Speaker 1: Do you you know? I've learned long ago not to

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Speaker 1: comment about the President's tweets, not about his tweets necessarily,

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Speaker 1: but but the Clintons. I mean, listen, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of speculation about that. There's a lot of questions. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you you told me that, I'm yeah on Bloomberg Television.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of questions here, so, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: there's more questions every day. UM, but you know, sort of,

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Speaker 1: I always wait till the facts come out and the evidence.

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Speaker 1: As an old prosecutor, UM, we'll just see where that leads.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know what happened. I don't know who

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Speaker 1: was involved, but if anybody was involved, We're just gonna

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Speaker 1: have to wait and see. And I just don't have

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Speaker 1: any evidence one way or ANOTHERA uh, do you have

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Speaker 1: to have a Campbell's corn dog. Um. I got an

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Speaker 1: argument with Pete heck Seth Fox News because he's from

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Speaker 1: Minnesota and he likes Toronto pups, which are inferior. Uh

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Speaker 1: So I had a corn dog. I always love having

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Speaker 1: the tender one. And the pork on a stick is

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Speaker 1: pork choler. Come back. You are the former acting Concerney

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Speaker 1: General now General Council of PC MATIC appreciate you coming on.

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Speaker 1: Coming up, Muhammad al Arian, wild day on Wall Street.

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Speaker 1: I'm Kevin Severi. You're listening to Bloomberg. We're joined now.

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Speaker 1: I want to welcome our national Bloomberg radio audience and

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Speaker 1: joining us on the phone. Muhammad Alarian, he is chief

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Speaker 1: economic advisor at Alian's and of course also a Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: opinion column, is also a Jets fan. I understand, which

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Speaker 1: is something we can get to hit a second. But

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Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining us. All right,

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Speaker 1: Are we headed for another recession? I don't think so,

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Speaker 1: but Kevin there with that we may talk ourselves into

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Speaker 1: one is high. Let me explain what happened to the

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Speaker 1: yolk curve today has more to do with what's happening

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Speaker 1: in Europe and the distortions of monetary policy than it

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Speaker 1: does with our economic outlook. Having said that, this type

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Speaker 1: of behavior in the Yolker in the past has signaled

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Speaker 1: high likelihood of recession, and there's a worry that I

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Speaker 1: share that we may end up in a situation where

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Speaker 1: people read these alarmist headlines, they get concerned, they stopped spending.

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Speaker 1: As they stopped spending, a company stop investing, and then

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Speaker 1: we get a major slowdown. So it doesn't necessarily signal

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Speaker 1: a recession, but it increases the risk cover recession. So

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Speaker 1: in terms of how to right the ship, so to speak, Muhammadalarian,

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Speaker 1: how do we get out of the alarmist headline fadder

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Speaker 1: in order to ease some of the concerns. What are

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Speaker 1: the market's craving So the market eqraving economic growth or

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Speaker 1: better fundamentals, and that has to come first and foremost

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Speaker 1: from Europe which has a really high riskovery sssion, second

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Speaker 1: from China and third from US. And that requires pro

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Speaker 1: growth policies. It requires hard work on improving the tax structure,

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Speaker 1: on increasing infrastructure spending UM. And it doesn't require shortcuts

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Speaker 1: UM like relying more on central banks. This this requires

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Speaker 1: fundamental policy work in order to generate genuine drivers of

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Speaker 1: economic growth. It is not an engineering problem, Kevin as

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Speaker 1: much as it is a political one. So meanwhile, all

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Speaker 1: of them, I mean, there's so much we could we

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Speaker 1: could go on with this. But from my lens here

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Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. The President earlier this week announcing

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Speaker 1: that he's gonna split off impacting raising some of the

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Speaker 1: terriffs until mid December. What do you think that President

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Speaker 1: Trump now has to make an important calculation as as

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Speaker 1: the the recession headwinds appear to be maybe not growing,

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Speaker 1: but the warning signs at least are there. So it's

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Speaker 1: a complicated equation because undoubtedly, um he looks at the

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Speaker 1: stock market, and the stock market doesn't react well to tariffs.

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Speaker 1: Undoubtedly he's worried about the economic outlook, and again the

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Speaker 1: risk of recession is higher. But don't forget that's a

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Speaker 1: third issue that's as important, if not more important, and

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Speaker 1: that is national security. The tariffs with China have become

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Speaker 1: much about much more than just economics. They've expanded to

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Speaker 1: cover national security issue. So the White House has got

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Speaker 1: to weigh these different considerations when it decides what to

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Speaker 1: do next. China isn't helping because they haven't made the

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Speaker 1: sort of concessions that people expect given genuine and I

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Speaker 1: see genuine complaints not just by the US but also

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Speaker 1: by Europe about intellectual property theft and force transfers of technology.

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Speaker 1: Muhammadalarian's joining us on the phone line. He's the chief

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Speaker 1: Economic advisor at Alliance. He's also a Bloomberg opinion columnist.

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Speaker 1: Part of my must read. Literally I'm constantly hitting refreshed

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Speaker 1: to see when year new pieces are published. I want

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Speaker 1: to get your take about whether or not you think

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Speaker 1: President Trump actually maybe doesn't want but actually a deal

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Speaker 1: is in the cards with China on trade, or if

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Speaker 1: you're convinced that maybe there won't ever be a deal.

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Speaker 1: So I think the most likely outcome is what I

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Speaker 1: call a ceasefire um, not a deal. And by a deal,

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Speaker 1: I mean something that lasts for years. Why Because a

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Speaker 1: deal requires China to accept things that are politically difficult

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Speaker 1: to sell domestically UM. And it's asked to expect it

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Speaker 1: to accept this at a time when it is worried

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Speaker 1: about Hong Kong and it's got other concerns. So I

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Speaker 1: don't see China making the making the needed concessions. Neither

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Speaker 1: do I see the US relaxing on his demands. So

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Speaker 1: the best that you can get is a cease fire

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Speaker 1: for a few weeks a few months. The highly likely

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Speaker 1: if you get a big changes that we get an

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Speaker 1: escalation of trade tensions rather than a durable resolution. What

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Speaker 1: do you think of the Fed's going to do? If

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Speaker 1: you're Fed Chair J. Powell? How what are you? What

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Speaker 1: are you thinking about as you sit down for dinner tonight? UM,

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Speaker 1: I've probably have an upset stomach because I'm getting put

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Speaker 1: into a corner. Not just h is J. Powell, the

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Speaker 1: Chair of the Federal Reserve, but central banks in general,

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Speaker 1: the European Central Bank, UM, the Bank of Japan, and

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Speaker 1: of course the fat Why the market is screaming, give

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Speaker 1: me more interest rate cuts, Give me more interest rate cuts.

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Speaker 1: Political pressure on me is intense for more interest rate cuts,

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Speaker 1: but I now have evidence that interest rate cuts do

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Speaker 1: nothing to durably promote economic growth. At this stage, it's

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Speaker 1: like pushing on a string. My credibility with the market

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Speaker 1: is being undermined by the fact that the market is

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Speaker 1: seemed to be pushing me around, and I may inadvertently

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Speaker 1: contribute to future financial stability. So I find myself in

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Speaker 1: a loose, loose situation. Either I do what the what

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Speaker 1: the markets are forcing me to do and it has

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Speaker 1: no beneficial economic outcome, but it undermines my credibility, or alternatively,

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Speaker 1: I don't and I risk fueling more market instability. Kevin

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Speaker 1: is a really tough position to be in the final

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Speaker 1: question for you, you have been so generous with your time.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate you calling in muhammadal Arian. He is, of course

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Speaker 1: the chief economic advisor at Alliance. He's a Bloomberg opinion

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Speaker 1: columnists as well. If you're getting in your car on

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Speaker 1: your way home from work tonight and you're looking at

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Speaker 1: all of the market news and you're worried about a recession,

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Speaker 1: and you're worried as a member of the middle class

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Speaker 1: about the prospects of having to live through another recession,

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Speaker 1: what's your message to those people? So my message is,

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Speaker 1: first of all, let's not talk ourselves into one because tragedy, yes.

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Speaker 1: And then second, remember that you need free things to

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Speaker 1: be able to manage um this very uncertain outlook. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I love the phrase that Ben bernanke once he was

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Speaker 1: unusually uncertain. It's not just uncertains unusually one is you

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Speaker 1: need balance. It resilience. You need the ability to have

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Speaker 1: the money, the savings who go through this. Two is

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Speaker 1: you need optionality. You need to be able to change

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Speaker 1: your mind about the outlook as you get more information.

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Speaker 1: And finally, you need a trility. Okay, move quickly once

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Speaker 1: you see clarity as to what's coming. And I think

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Speaker 1: these three attributes are going to be more and more

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Speaker 1: important as we navigate a very uncertain and fluid global environment.

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Speaker 1: Muhammad Dalarian, thank you so much. This has been a

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00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: treat for me. Uh He of course is the chief

433
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: economic advisor at Alians and a Bloomberg opinion columnists. Appreciate

434
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 1: you calling in. You can download the Bloomberg Sound On

435
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: podcast on Apple iTunes, at Bloomberg dot com, or by

436
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: downloading the Bloomberg Business app. You can also find me

437
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 1: on Radio dot com, I Heart Radio and Spotify and

438
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: Kevin Cereli, Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg TV, Bloomberg Radio.

439
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg's Sound On with

440
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: Kevin Surrele on Bloomberg and one oh five point seven

441
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: of m HD two Baltimore. I'm Kevin Cerelli, Chief Washington

442
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 1: correspondent from Bloomberg Television Bloomberg Radio, Tyler Pages here is

443
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: about to go play baseball I think with Bernie Sanders

444
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: staff and Iowa on the field of Tyler at the

445
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 1: Field of Dreams. He's a Bloomberg National political reporter. You're

446
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: gonna go to the field of dreams in Iowa. Has

447
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: your mic on one? Try? Now? Sorry, that is true.

448
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: It feels like a bucket list item to play baseball,

449
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 1: not only at the Field of Dreams, but with presidential candidate.

450
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 1: You know that is that is pretty intense. All right?

451
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,400
Speaker 1: So you were back and I I saw you had

452
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: this great story on the Bloomberg terminal. You were on

453
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: the bus with Senator Kamala Harris. How is she gonna

454
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: turn this around? Because she she soared at the debate

455
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: at uh down in Miami, but then she's kind of uh,

456
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 1: you know it a little yeah. I think that's that's

457
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: her big challenges. She had that big moment she saw

458
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: her rise in the polls, and then it kind of

459
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: disappeared after the second to page where she was put

460
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: on the defensive by by Tulci Gabberd and was the

461
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: subject of the attack. So now she's trying to pictureself attack.

462
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,320
Speaker 1: I love what we call that, the Tulca Gabbard attack.

463
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: I mean, essentially they just gotten a want war over

464
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: medicare for all, and also her background as a prosecutor,

465
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: that's what and then and then the criminal justice. But

466
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 1: I actually was more struck by Biden's takedown of her

467
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: medicare plan. Yeah, and that's something that I think that

468
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: and that follows into what to what I talked to

469
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 1: her about is that she's trying to pitch herself as

470
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: a non ideological politician. So someone that isn't Biden as

471
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: a moderate, someone that isn't Bernie Centers or Lizard Warren

472
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: as a progressive, and she's trying to be the pragmatic one.

473
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: And her campaign Sagan is the three am agenda, So

474
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: the issues that Americans wake up in the middle of

475
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: the night worried about, and she wants to pitch herself

476
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: as who want to solve those issues. She's the melitonein candidate.

477
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: That's good. But but so what I think she's trying

478
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,360
Speaker 1: to do is say, look, I I have progressive ideas,

479
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: but I'm a little bit moderate as well, and I'm

480
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: here to solve the issues that you care about healthcare, education.

481
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 1: But I think what what some of the criticism she's

482
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: getting is people are saying, well, what do you really believe?

483
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: And and are you just but pull Like some of

484
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: the criticism that that's in the story is are you

485
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 1: just a poll tested candidate who's gonna say whatever it

486
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: takes to win, or do you have core values and

487
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: belief Like there's no debate whether or not you agree

488
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: with Bertie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. You're not going to

489
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: debate that they really do believe what they what they're

490
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: saying is because they've they've thought that and argued for

491
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: that for so long. And Joe Biden has pitched himself

492
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 1: as a moderate someone that can work across that with Republicans,

493
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: whereas Kamala Harris is trying to thread that needle. All Right,

494
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: you mentioned Senator Elizabeth Warren, uh and she just she

495
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: was in New Hampshire on earlier today. Take a listen

496
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: to what she had to say about the stakes for

497
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: presidential election. Here's Elizabeth Warren. What happens in won't just

498
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: determine the direction of our country for the next four years,

499
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: So the next eight years, this is going to be

500
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: the direction of our country for generations to come. I

501
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: was talking about this earlier today with the Democratic strategist type. Uh,

502
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: just about how the candidates are making various pitches to

503
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: millennials on an economic standpoint. And and by the way,

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00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: millennials under the age of thirty six, I mean homeownership,

505
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: uh four oh one case savings. What are you hearing

506
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: when you're out there on the trail for how the

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00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 1: candidates like Elizabeth Warren are making their pitch on millennial

508
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,640
Speaker 1: economic issues. Yeah, that's telling that. I mean student debt

509
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: comes right to mind. That's something Elizabeth Warren said she

510
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: would cancel for of people. Bernie Sanders have has put

511
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,360
Speaker 1: that in his platform. So I think that's one key

512
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: way that they're not to put you on the spot.

513
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: But here's the five percent that wouldn't be impacted by

514
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: Warren's people, she says, wealthy people that that don't need

515
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: depends Yeah, it depends on whom kind of your financial situation.

516
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: There's a calculator on her website that you can go

517
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: to and and calculate how much how much of your

518
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: should twa that the t i AD three plus and

519
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,959
Speaker 1: then like Elizabeth exactly calculator out there that I want

520
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: to know if you're student that would be canceled checked out.

521
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders said he would cancel for a hundred percent um.

522
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 1: But if you want an economic argument for millennials, people

523
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: to judge his framing his whole campaign around that, saying

524
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: that he is best at the best position to address

525
00:28:57,760 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: those issues because he has student ted and he's a

526
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: Neil also, I mean talk about gun control, that's something

527
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: that that he talks about, and they all talked about

528
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: about the school shooting generations. So you're in Iowa, you're

529
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: eating a zombie burger. I mean, if I if I'm

530
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: an Iowan, we just have that Whittaker on. He's a

531
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: local Iowa Republican. But I mean, if I'm an Iowan,

532
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh my gosh, we're like six months

533
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: how many months until the until the January caucuses. I mean,

534
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: there's like twenty million presidential candidates and they're all hovering

535
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: around When you talk to voters, are they are they

536
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: bored of this yet? So I have a very funny story.

537
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: I was standing at the soapbox at the Iowa State

538
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 1: Fair and for people who don't know what the soapbox

539
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: is what is the soapbox? Soapboxes the Dorain Register of

540
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: the local newspaper there sets up this little stage shouted

541
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: by Hay Bales, and all the presidential candidates are invited

542
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: to come give a twenty minutes stump speeches. For me,

543
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: it's my worst nightmare because I'm like, I have severe allergies,

544
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: so I'm not I'm not kidding, like, so this is

545
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: literally Kevin and hives. Anytime, anytime there's like politicians with

546
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: farm animals or hey, I just breakout so that anyone cares.

547
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: So Senator Christian gila Brand is up there and she's speaking,

548
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: and someone walks by and says, who's up there, and

549
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 1: in Christian Giliburn. Gilbren organizers right there and says it's

550
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: Senator gilla Brand, and the person goes Senator Jill Brown

551
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: and then just kept walking. And I think that's just

552
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 1: indicative of just how many people there are on the field,

553
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: and how even Iowans, who are really usually tapped into

554
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: this process at a very early stage because they take

555
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: the responsibility of being the first caucus tate very very

556
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: very seriously, that they can't even keep up with all them.

557
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: I mean the same thing, Tim Ryan. I wrote this story. Um,

558
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: the headline is low polling Democrats breakout moments at the

559
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: Io State Fair is with twenty four candidates, depending who

560
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: you count and who you don't. Um, they're all trying

561
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: for their breakout moments. And and some of them, I

562
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: mean Tim Ryan went up there and he said, in

563
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: direct quotes, you may not know who I am. I'm

564
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: Tim Ryan. And in August is still trying to be

565
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: introducing yourself to the electorate when there's so many other candidates.

566
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: I think I think it poses some challenges. So on

567
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: a daylight today where the markets are just wild, uh,

568
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: and you know, and Tom King's asking both of us

569
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: just about how much volatility there is and fears of

570
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: an economic recession. When you talk to voters out in

571
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: Iowa and South Carolina and New Hampshire, are they worried

572
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: about a recession? So I think so, I mean, that's

573
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: that's not something that Yeah, it's surprisingly nothing that comes

574
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: up immediately. UM. I think Democrats, That's Trump's strongest tissue

575
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: for his re election is he's running in part on

576
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: on a strong economy, and if that starts to falter

577
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: as as we saw the market volatility today that could

578
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: handicap his re election effort. Um. But I think Democrats

579
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: are also talking about not just about like GDP and

580
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: traditional economic measures. But you'll hear Elizabeth Warren say things

581
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: on the campaign trail like the economy is working for

582
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: a thinner and thinner site of people, and and and

583
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: even though the unemployment rate is low, people are working

584
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: two or three jobs. So they're talking about structural facets

585
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: of the economy as well rather than just kind of market.

586
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: And so Kamala Harris will say, well, the market's working

587
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: well if you own stocks, but what if you don't

588
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: own stocks? Um. So, I think there's a lot of

589
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: different ways that Democrats are trying to address the economy

590
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: in preparation for a general election against Trump, where that

591
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: could be his strong issue if if we don't see

592
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: our recession. Biden will keeps saying, Okay, well he's the

593
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: only one that could be Trump. Do you voters feel

594
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: that way right now? Yes, that is a lot of

595
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: voters we're seeing in the polls. Biden, despite the gafts,

596
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: despite what people say is he's too older, or criticisms

597
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 1: of past comments or his record, he's still leading in

598
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: the polls and voters seemed to feel that they at

599
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 1: all costs they want to be Trump and and if

600
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: Biden's the best person to do that, that's who there criticism.

601
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: Tyler Pager, Bloomberg News national political reporter, joining us to

602
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: break down all of these candidates. We've got like less

603
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: than six seven we have like a minute left. Who's

604
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: on your radar? That or what is on your radar?

605
00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 1: And that no one is talking about. So I think

606
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: there's two things. One is the people are talking about this,

607
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: but the August deadline to qualify for the debates. So

608
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: if you don't qualify for these debates, and only nine

609
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: have qualified so far to Tom Syron, Julian Castro are

610
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: are close. They need one more poll at two percent,

611
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: what happens? Are you dropping out? And that? And that

612
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: turns into the second thing, So who's qualifying and then

613
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: who's dropping out? I think the field is really unwieldy.

614
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: Voters are are getting a little anxious about trying to

615
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 1: pick who they who they want to support or learn

616
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: more about, and there's just too many candidates. Maryann Williamson

617
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: does she make it? You know what, I'm an optimist.

618
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 1: I think Maryann Williamson makes it. She needs four, she

619
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 1: needs three or four polls, and there's only like two

620
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: weeks left. I don't know if there's enough polls even

621
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: even to get her to the four that drop out. No,

622
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: I don't think they drop out, because again the DNC

623
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: extended the deadline, and if you don't make September, you

624
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,959
Speaker 1: can still make October. Mary Ann Williamson, all right, I'm

625
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: telling you, she's captivated an entire following. All Right, Tyler

626
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: pager Breaking get down, Winberg News, national political reporter. We

627
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: covered it all today, Matt Whittaker, Mohammed Alarian, and Tyler Pagrit.

628
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: Download the sound on podcast on iTunes, Bloomberg dot Com,

629
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app. That's it for me, Kevin Cilli,

630
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: you're listening to Bloomberg