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Speaker 1: Happy Monday. Welcome to another episode of the Chuck Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for watching, for those of you on YouTube

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Speaker 1: or watching as a video podcast on Spotify. Those of

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Speaker 1: you listening, also, thank you for tuning in. Always appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: So I had to check my watch for the year

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Speaker 1: again over the weekend make sure we were still in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, because we kind of had one of

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Speaker 1: these news Joe Biden news cycles over the last seventy

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Speaker 1: two hours that was quite rare, meaning it was a

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden. You might be forgiven if you thought Biden

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Speaker 1: was still president versus Trump, because it's rare for Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump to ever get overshadowed, particularly when he's actually president.

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Speaker 1: But for the last seventy two hours, all things Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden has very much overshadowed Donald Trump. Now some of

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Speaker 1: it is intentional by Trump, and I'm going to get

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Speaker 1: into that, but let's unpack this Biden news cycle. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: the most recent news being his office announcing that he

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Speaker 1: is an aggressive form of prostate cancer. So obviously it

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Speaker 1: goes without saying that that is not good news to hear,

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Speaker 1: and he is there is nobody that knows how to

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Speaker 1: fight and rebound from health challenges more than Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: I feel like he's been doing it off and on

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Speaker 1: his whole life. The guy is tough, he's resilient, and

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Speaker 1: I have no doubt he's going to make it through

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Speaker 1: this and likely thrive after they make their decision on

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Speaker 1: where to go with treatment. Obviously, that news came in

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Speaker 1: the middle of what's been a pretty negative set of

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Speaker 1: headlines for Joe Biden and for the Democratic Party as

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Speaker 1: a whole. As you've had the book Jake Tapper Alex

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Speaker 1: Thompson's book about what happened inside the West Wing, what

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Speaker 1: happened inside the Democratic Party that that led to what

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Speaker 1: was a disastrous summer, if you will, the disastrous last

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Speaker 1: eighteen months of the Biden presidency. Was it a cover up?

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Speaker 1: Was it not? You don't think there's any proof that

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Speaker 1: it was a cover up of anything other than it

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Speaker 1: was either a lot of wilful blindness by the staff

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Speaker 1: perhaps making themselves feel better because it was Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: that was on the other side, and had it been

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Speaker 1: anybody else, maybe they would have had clear set of

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Speaker 1: eyes and thinking. But that book got supercharged over the

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Speaker 1: weekend with the Trump administration's decision and the timing of that,

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Speaker 1: and again I'm going to get into that in a minute.

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Speaker 1: To release the full audio recording, and this was a

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Speaker 1: Justice department decision. They did it, So it's Trump's Justice

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Speaker 1: department that did this. Just keep this in mind, and

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Speaker 1: we're going to ask some questions in a few minutes

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Speaker 1: about why did they choose this moment, why are they

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Speaker 1: choosing to do this, But we'll get into that in

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Speaker 1: a minute, But let's not beat around the bush. The

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Speaker 1: release of the Robert herbick has certainly I think put

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Speaker 1: that entire episode in a different light. What Robert Hurr

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Speaker 1: wrote about his interview when he said that no jury

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Speaker 1: would convict him, is that he was going to be

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Speaker 1: that his memory of an was a bit forgetful, but

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Speaker 1: it would be something that a jury would forgive considering

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Speaker 1: his age. Well, when that report came out, there was

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Speaker 1: immediate denunciations because remember when when it came out, he

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Speaker 1: was still running for reelection at the time when this

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Speaker 1: report came out, so it was obviously something that they

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Speaker 1: feared would only sort of bring back the news cycle,

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Speaker 1: bring back the chatter that he shouldn't run for reelection,

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Speaker 1: that the party should go in a different direction. So

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Speaker 1: there was a very forceful pushback attacks on her personally,

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Speaker 1: accusations that he was somehow doing the bidding of the

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Speaker 1: Trump campaign when he was doing it, just personal and

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Speaker 1: vicious attacks by some people who are not journalists but

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Speaker 1: are considered members of the media. And I do make

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Speaker 1: this distinction because I do think reporters and journalists were

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Speaker 1: trying to do a story and we're trying to be

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Speaker 1: honest about what the heck was going on with Biden

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Speaker 1: in the White House. But there were certainly pundits and

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Speaker 1: analysts and hosts of cable TV shows that we're trying

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Speaker 1: to protect their access to the president and use talking

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Speaker 1: points that were hand delivered to them by Biden supporters

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Speaker 1: and Biden defenders to attack Robert Hurr. We'll see if

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Speaker 1: those folks decide to apologize, decide to do a mega

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Speaker 1: Kalpa on that, because clearly, now when you listen to

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Speaker 1: the recording, her was not an antagonist here. Her was

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Speaker 1: not trying doesn't seem like he was at all trying

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Speaker 1: to lead the witness and some sort of negative territory

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Speaker 1: that he was willfully misinterpreting the conversation that he had

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Speaker 1: and how the interview went. I think it was pretty

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Speaker 1: clear that her was a professional in the during the

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Speaker 1: whole time, behaved very professionally and certainly was even empathetic

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Speaker 1: at times when the president, who of course, it turned

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Speaker 1: out it was the President that brought up his son's death,

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Speaker 1: not Robert Herr. So that recording has only I think

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Speaker 1: taken and certainly, let's remember the Trump Justice Department released

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Speaker 1: the recording to one of the two authors of the book,

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Speaker 1: to the news organization Axios, which of course employs one

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Speaker 1: of the two authors of the book. So the Trump

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Speaker 1: White House knew exactly what it was doing here. They

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Speaker 1: saw an opportunity to take a news cycle that was

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Speaker 1: growing and developing and really was more of a Washington

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Speaker 1: news cycle about the Democratic Party, and essentially ad an

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Speaker 1: accelerant it. Right the release of this recording, which is

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Speaker 1: not in the book. Okay, this was not something that

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Speaker 1: they were able to get for the book, but they

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Speaker 1: sort of giving it to the author only seemed to

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Speaker 1: supercharge the attention and it certainly now created a much

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Speaker 1: bigger news cycle and has forced a lot of Democrats

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Speaker 1: to have to answer for this because at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, the Democratic Party did turn a blind eye,

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Speaker 1: not just to Joe Biden, but they turned the blind

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Speaker 1: eye to the voters. Ultimately, what they did is they

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Speaker 1: we the voters were the ones that were telling Paul

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Speaker 1: after poll that they had more concerns about Joe Biden's

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Speaker 1: age than they did Donald Trump's character. And it was

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Speaker 1: Paul after Paul after poll that would show that. And

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Speaker 1: it was amazing to me how often Democrats would dismiss

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Speaker 1: those numbers and say, oh no, you know, once, once

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Speaker 1: the public sees Joe Biden in action, that will go away.

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Speaker 1: But Donald Trump's character is built in, and the issues

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Speaker 1: and the fear of his presidency will kick in and

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Speaker 1: people will focus on that. Well, that didn't happen because

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden wasn't able to reassure folks that he was

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Speaker 1: able to do the job. The debate, obviously, the infamous debate,

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Speaker 1: ended up being the moment that only reinforced what the

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Speaker 1: voters were already telling us. And that's what I think

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Speaker 1: is the biggest problem the Democratic Party has right now

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Speaker 1: in this moment in dealing with this Biden situation. Look,

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Speaker 1: it does appear that Joe Biden is about to experience

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Speaker 1: what Jimmy Carter experienced starting in nineteen eighty one, which

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Speaker 1: is the Democratic Party is going to do everything it can.

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Speaker 1: Anybody that's currently active in the party is going to

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Speaker 1: do everything they can to find a way to distance

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Speaker 1: themselves from him in some form. Maybe they will say, well,

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Speaker 1: I thought, you know, you'll hear. Richie Torres, who I'm

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Speaker 1: interviewing today, is one of the rising stars in the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party. He may be a candidate for New York governor,

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Speaker 1: a primary challenger to the New York governor there, Kathy Hochel.

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Speaker 1: He will admit that, hey, it turns out we were wrong.

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Speaker 1: We should have had a deeper conversation about this is

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Speaker 1: essentially his message. But I want to read something Chris

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Speaker 1: Murphy said on Meet the Press to my friend Kristen Welker,

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Speaker 1: and he said this, because I think this gets it

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Speaker 1: to the heart of the challenge for the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: going forward, if they're going to ever convince voters to

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Speaker 1: trust them. In retrospect, Chris Murphy says, you can't defend

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Speaker 1: what the Democratic Party did because we are stuck with

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Speaker 1: a madman, a corrupt president in the Oval office, and

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Speaker 1: we should have given ourselves a better chance to win.

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Speaker 1: So what is he saying there. What he's saying is

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Speaker 1: to voters, it's okay to blame the Democratic Party for

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Speaker 1: Trump's election. That if the Democratic Party had behaved more responsibly,

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Speaker 1: had the Democratic Party put the wishes of the voters

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Speaker 1: ahead of the wishes of the establishment, they may have

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Speaker 1: gone somewhere. They may be in a different place. Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump may not be president, you know, the Republican Party.

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Speaker 1: If Donald Trump ends up a failed president and sets

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Speaker 1: the democracy back decades and sets American exceptionalism back decades,

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Speaker 1: not only will you have the Republican Party to blame,

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Speaker 1: because they've willfully gone down this road and they've looked

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Speaker 1: the other way on character, and they've looked the other

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Speaker 1: way on sort of the historical nature of what he's

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Speaker 1: trying to do here. But the Democratic Party did the

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Speaker 1: same thing. They didn't put the interests of the country

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Speaker 1: ahead of the interests of the party or the interests

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Speaker 1: of themselves. And what really makes it, I think even

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Speaker 1: more damning for the Democrats and why this recovery is

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Speaker 1: going to be so much harder no matter how unpopular

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump and the Republicans are in this moment, because

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Speaker 1: it's a trust issue, right, there was this this lack

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Speaker 1: of being able to of being able to see, and

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Speaker 1: the rhetoric was Donald Trump's an existential threat to the democracy. Well,

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Speaker 1: if you believe that, then you had to make sure

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Speaker 1: you were doing everything you can as a party to

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Speaker 1: put that front and center, that that issue would be

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Speaker 1: front and center. So if you had a sitting president

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Speaker 1: that wasn't up to the challenge, then that he needed

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Speaker 1: to be he needed to be primary or he needed

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Speaker 1: to be convinced not to run again. And it should

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Speaker 1: have happened a heck of a lot sooner. The party

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Speaker 1: never seemed to take the Trump threat as seriously as

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Speaker 1: the rhetoric. They would utter because their actions didn't back

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Speaker 1: up the rhetoric. How do we know that, Just look

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Speaker 1: at how they handled the Biden situation in the last

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Speaker 1: two years of the Biden presidency. So the question is

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Speaker 1: how many people in the Democratic Party are going to

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Speaker 1: be tainted with this? So let me go back. I

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Speaker 1: want to go back to the experience of the last

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Speaker 1: time that the Democrats had sort of this. They had

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Speaker 1: sort of an era of defeat that called into question

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Speaker 1: whether the Democratic Party was strong enough to lead in

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Speaker 1: this country. The Democratic Party had got blown out in

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Speaker 1: seventy two by George McGovern. They narrowly win the White House,

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Speaker 1: even though they should have won it by a lot.

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Speaker 1: But they narrowly win the White House in seventy six

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Speaker 1: post Watergate, essentially because Ford pardons Nixon and that was

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Speaker 1: an unforgivable sin. Carter gets blown out in eighty Walter

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Speaker 1: Mondale gets blown out in eighty four, and Michael Ducaccus

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Speaker 1: gets blown out in eighty eight. So four landslides in

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Speaker 1: five elections. And after that eighty eight election, there were

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Speaker 1: serious there were serious debates about what was the Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party going to do with itself. There was books that

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Speaker 1: were put out that's a permanent minority party. The Democratic

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Speaker 1: parties headed for permanent minority party status. And what happened.

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Speaker 1: Somebody decided to pick a fight and take the Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party in a whole new direction. And that's somebody was

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Speaker 1: Bill Clinton. And I've gone through this a few times before,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not going to re talk about this moment,

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Speaker 1: but that was a cathartic moment for a party. And

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Speaker 1: Bill Clinton confronted the establishment. Bill Clinton confronted the very

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Speaker 1: basic issues that swing voters were saying they didn't trust

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Speaker 1: whether it was law and order issues, national security, or

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Speaker 1: the economy. Right, he came out and was centered the

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Speaker 1: party as being more pro business, more pro free trade, tough. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: when he got elected president, he basically adopted half of

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Speaker 1: the national defense policy that George H. W. Bush had kept.

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Speaker 1: Colin Powell kept a bunch of holdovers at the time

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Speaker 1: and essentially preserved much of this of the status quo

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Speaker 1: in the national security, and of course he projected himself

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Speaker 1: as much tougher on law orders, even famously leaving the

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Speaker 1: campaign trail to oversee the use of the death penalty

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Speaker 1: when he was governor of Arkansas late in the campaign,

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Speaker 1: just to reinforce the message that he was a different

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Speaker 1: type of Democrat. It was all about him making contrast

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Speaker 1: that he wasn't Jimmy Carter, that he wasn't Michael Ducacas,

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Speaker 1: and that he wasn't Walter Mondale. And the one thing,

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Speaker 1: and he actually had to push back that he wasn't

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Speaker 1: George McGovern. That was a little harder for him, why

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Speaker 1: because Bill and Hillary Clinton ran Texas for McGovern back

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Speaker 1: in seventy two. But still, you see my larger point,

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Speaker 1: he had to not just run against the party, but

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Speaker 1: contrast himself and put those previous Democratic leaders in a

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Speaker 1: negative light. That's likely the situation the Democrats are in now.

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Speaker 1: Right if you put the grouping of candidates together of

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Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and Kamala Harris. We've had three

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Speaker 1: elections and two of them lost, and the Joe Biden

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Speaker 1: victory turned out to be probably more of an accident

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Speaker 1: in hindsight than we all realize. I think that one

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Speaker 1: of the fundamental problems Democrats I think have made and

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Speaker 1: why they may have chosen not to confront the Biden

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Speaker 1: age issue when they should have, is I think they

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Speaker 1: misinterpreted both what happened in twenty twenty and twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: I think the Democrats mostly believe that their success in

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Speaker 1: twenty and they're doing and they're better than expected showing

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Speaker 1: in twenty two was due to a rejection of Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump and trump Ism, when it looks like if you

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Speaker 1: actually dig in and now sort of see how voters

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Speaker 1: behaved in twenty four, now we can look back and realize, oh,

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Speaker 1: in twenty this was simply about COVID, and that Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump managed COVID better heat of one reelection, and oh,

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Speaker 1: by the way, he almost won reelection anyway. And in

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Speaker 1: twenty two it was simply superior Democratic candidates running against

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Speaker 1: terrible Republican nominees. And if there weren't those terrible Republican nominees,

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Speaker 1: the twenty twenty two midterms go differently. And perhaps it

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Speaker 1: actually motivates the Democratic Party to say, hey, they've got

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Speaker 1: a pivot from Joe Biden. Something is wrong here, this

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Speaker 1: isn't working. But they believe the voters that the message

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Speaker 1: the voters were sending was a full on rejection of Trump,

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Speaker 1: when really it was just a rejection of the specific

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Speaker 1: policy of the moment, and of that moment in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty was covid. And I also think what happened on

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Speaker 1: January sixth really clouded the judgment of a lot of Democrats.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of Democrats believe the country would

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Speaker 1: never forgive Republicans for what happened on January sixth, not

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Speaker 1: realizing that what the conservative media machine had done a

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Speaker 1: great job building an alternative ecosystem, and Donald Trump supercharged

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Speaker 1: that alternative ecosystem. When Facebook and Twitter decided to deplatform him,

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Speaker 1: he was forced to have to go find a new

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Speaker 1: way to communicate. And all that did was, I think

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Speaker 1: less in whatever impact democrats thought January was going to sick,

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Speaker 1: January six was going to have on the electorate as

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Speaker 1: a whole. So look, I think you're going to continue

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Speaker 1: to see more Democrats try to distance themselves. I think

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Speaker 1: it's going to be really tough for some of them.

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Speaker 1: I saw James Carvill just attack Pete Bootajige the other

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Speaker 1: day saying, oh, now you're saying because Botajige went in Iowa,

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Speaker 1: essentially said yeah, maybe we should have gone in a

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Speaker 1: different direction rather than Biden seeking reelection. And of course

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Speaker 1: Carvel's first answer was because Carvel was out there early

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Speaker 1: on saying Biden shouldn't seek reelection. He was saying it

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three when many Democrats were not saying

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Speaker 1: it then, or certainly weren't saying it publicly. And he

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Speaker 1: basically said, where were you, Pete Bootagige. Why didn't you

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Speaker 1: say anything then? And so I think that that's going

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Speaker 1: to be It's going to be an albatross that every

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Speaker 1: single Democrat that runs for office. The closer you are

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Speaker 1: to Biden, the more questions you're going to have to

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Speaker 1: answer about what you saw and what you didn't see,

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Speaker 1: and if you didn't see it, the question is going

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Speaker 1: to be why didn't you see it? Why didn't you

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Speaker 1: ask questions about why you weren't allowed to meet more

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Speaker 1: often with the president if you were a cabinet secretary

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Speaker 1: for instance, or why did you say what you said?

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Speaker 1: Some of these defenses, Oh, you know when people it

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Speaker 1: was it was always you know, all these quotes are

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Speaker 1: coming back to haunt so many Democrats because they'd be

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Speaker 1: out there saying I was with Biden and he was amazing,

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Speaker 1: and he was this. It was almost like over the

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Speaker 1: top rhetoric and trying to defend Biden, which after the

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Speaker 1: release of the her tapes and after the release of

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Speaker 1: this Tapper book is only makes those quotes age really

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Speaker 1: really poorly. So, look, I suspect you're going to have

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Speaker 1: to that the Democrats are not anywhere near answering the

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Speaker 1: question that voters are going to end up asking them

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Speaker 1: at some point, because I go back to what I

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Speaker 1: to what Chris Murphy said on Sunday. The more unpopular

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Speaker 1: Trump gets, the more unpopular the decisions he makes, the

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Speaker 1: worse our economy is. Some of that blame isn't all

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Speaker 1: going to go to the Republicans. There are going to

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Speaker 1: be some voters who do blame the Democratic Party for

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Speaker 1: not focusing on the task in hand back in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four, for looking the other way on Biden. And

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Speaker 1: so what does that mean? Right? I've posited here that

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Speaker 1: if we didn't if they're if the duopoly of ballid

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Speaker 1: access didn't exist, I do think the Democratic Party's major

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Speaker 1: party status would be in real jeopardy. But because of

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Speaker 1: how embedded, and because there's only one vehicle to guarantee

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Speaker 1: ballid access without having to go around gathering partition signatures

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Speaker 1: and things like that in many states, it gives them

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Speaker 1: essentially a chance to try to reinvent themselves. But they

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Speaker 1: have to reinvent themselves. Make no mistake, if you're thinking

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Speaker 1: about leading this party in twenty six or twenty eight,

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Speaker 1: go spend some time watching what Bill Clinton did in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, in nineteen ninety, Go take a look

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Speaker 1: at the DLC. It doesn't mean you have to move ideologically.

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Speaker 1: I do think that sometimes strength can be projected without

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Speaker 1: shifting your ideology left to center or center to left.

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Speaker 1: What you've got to do is project strength whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: either if it's strength on an issue, strength on character.

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Speaker 1: But these mealy mouthed answers, and this sort of attempt

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Speaker 1: to try to try to sort of vaguely blame others

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Speaker 1: or blame the establishment is is, I think a fool's

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Speaker 1: Errand I do want to remind folks why is the

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Speaker 1: her tape public? The her tape is only public because

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Speaker 1: the Trump White House chose to make it public. Now

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Speaker 1: you ask yourself, why do they choose? Why Why is

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump so so enamored with constantly bringing up Joe Biden?

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Speaker 1: Because in many ways, you know, if you think about it,

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Speaker 1: like how a poker player might analyze somebody at a table,

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Speaker 1: why is he doing this? Well, to me, it's a tell.

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Speaker 1: What's the tell? He knows he's not popular. He knows

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Speaker 1: many of the things he's doing are not popular. That

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Speaker 1: Middle East trip, there were he did a few things

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Speaker 1: that that may pay dividends long term. I think Syria

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Speaker 1: and Iran could pay some long term dividends and some

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Speaker 1: stability in the Middle East. But the stinkiness of the

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Speaker 1: business transactions and the clear sort of intent of his

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Speaker 1: personal businesses and his sons profiting off of the government's

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Speaker 1: businesses with those three golf countries UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Katar,

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Speaker 1: plus the whole plane business. Right, there's some stinkiness to it,

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Speaker 1: So what was the best way to get people to

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Speaker 1: ignore that stinkiness for about twenty four to forty eight

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Speaker 1: hours release the Biden her tapes. Anyway, it's obvious that

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is pursuing a strategy that Joe Biden might

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Speaker 1: actually might admire, which is Donald Trump doesn't want you

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Speaker 1: to judge him by the Almighty. He wants you to

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Speaker 1: judge him by the alternative that he chooses to compare

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Speaker 1: himself to, and constantly bringing up Biden he thinks is

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Speaker 1: a net positive for him. But it does lead to

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Speaker 1: a curious question that I have in watching the full response,

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Speaker 1: if you will, over the weekend, and where the anger

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Speaker 1: was coming up when the first clips of the her

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Speaker 1: it came out. It was interesting to me that it

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Speaker 1: fears as if the right conservative media Republican elected officials,

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Speaker 1: all of them seemed to be angrier about this, about

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Speaker 1: Biden's about the attacks on her, about Biden's appearance on there,

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Speaker 1: and how it was clear that he was certainly, if anything,

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Speaker 1: had a bad day when he did that first interview,

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Speaker 1: But there was more anger from Republicans than there was

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Speaker 1: from Democrats, and that's been a head scratcher to me.

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Speaker 1: I think the release of the her tapes should be

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Speaker 1: making Democrats a heck of a lot angrier than Republicans.

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Speaker 1: You would think Trump allies are ecstatic that Democrats did

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Speaker 1: nothing about Joe Biden for as long as they did.

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Speaker 1: You would think Republicans should be celebrating that Democrats essentially

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Speaker 1: didn't put their best foot forward in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: But if anything, they're attacking. They seem to be angrier

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Speaker 1: about the development and angrier that Aha, see, they were

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Speaker 1: right in their minds, they were right Biden wasn't up

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Speaker 1: to the job. Now. I know that some on the

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Speaker 1: right they think this is going to be some sort

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Speaker 1: of vindication for them, that this will reinforce that you

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Speaker 1: can't trust the left on anything. I think there are

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Speaker 1: some on the right that believe this Biden cover up,

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Speaker 1: if you want to call it that, as akin to

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Speaker 1: the no weapons of mass destruction that sort of saddled

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Speaker 1: Republicans for over a decade, if you will, And so

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Speaker 1: I think that's what the right things but I will

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Speaker 1: say this, I don't understand why Democrats aren't angrier. It

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Speaker 1: was a lot of hiding a little bit in response

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Speaker 1: to the hur tapes when it and while the Republicans

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Speaker 1: seemed to be venting and frustrated, it was almost as if,

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Speaker 1: why couldn't the Democrats have put up a better candidate

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Speaker 1: so that Donald Trump didn't become president. Now they didn't

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Speaker 1: say the second part, but that the anger is so

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Speaker 1: palpable on the right that it's like, wow, why did

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Speaker 1: you make us nominate Donald Trump? As almost what they're

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Speaker 1: saying without saying it anyway, just something to think about

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Speaker 1: into the motivation into why Trump's doing this. And I'll

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Speaker 1: say this, it says a lot to me that the

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Speaker 1: Trump White House feels the need that they have to

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Speaker 1: do this because guess what, they've had a bad ninety

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Speaker 1: six hours Russia is clearly Trump has no influence over Putin.

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Speaker 1: He continues to snub Ukraine, snub an he ceasefire and oh,

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Speaker 1: they just bombarded him with one of the larger drum

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Speaker 1: strikes that Ukraine has experienced in a while. All in

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Speaker 1: the run up to where Donald Trump says He's going

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Speaker 1: to engage talk to putin and see if he can

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Speaker 1: talk him into this. You also have House Republicans shooting

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Speaker 1: at each other, unable to get this one big, beautiful

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Speaker 1: bill onto the floor for a vote. Donald Trump's probably

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Speaker 1: going to have to play Speaker of the House again.

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Speaker 1: I mean, as we've learned, Mike Johnson is not his

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Speaker 1: speaker and title only whenever he actually has to get

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Speaker 1: a vote across the finish line. He desperately needs Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump to make individual phone calls, individual threats. And let's

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Speaker 1: just say, Donald Trump has a lot of work to

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Speaker 1: do this week playing House speaker. And that again, when

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Speaker 1: you have all that on your plate, it's no wonder

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Speaker 1: They said, Hey, let's throw up the distraction shiny metal object,

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Speaker 1: and let's release the her Biden tape. All right, let

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Speaker 1: me sneak in a break here, and for those of

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Speaker 1: you that are listening on audio when we come back,

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Speaker 1: you're going to hear from one of the fascinating rising

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Speaker 1: stars of the New York City Congressional delegation. And he

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Speaker 1: could be a future candidate for governor of New York One,

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Speaker 1: Richie toires New York City Democratic Congressman Richie Torres. Richie,

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Speaker 1: it's good to see you. You're in some ways, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of the folks that listen to me

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Speaker 1: and are watching me do know who you are. You're

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Speaker 1: a progressive Democrat who's really pro Israel. Been one of

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Speaker 1: the been one of the more important voices for those

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Speaker 1: that support Israel in the New York City area. But

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Speaker 1: I miss the old Stephen Colbert days of get to

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Speaker 1: know your district. So I've made I made Goldman do this.

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Speaker 1: So I'm gonna make you do this because this you know,

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Speaker 1: tell me about your district, like I've never been to

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Speaker 1: New York City. Describe this district to somebody that lives

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Speaker 1: in Rolla, Missouri.

433
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 2: So I represent one of the few congressional districts that's

434
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: wholly contained within one county. I represent about half the Bronx.

435
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 2: So my district is home to the New York Yankees,

436
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: and it's it's really known for its int intitutions. We

437
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,959
Speaker 2: have the New York Botanical Garden, we have the Bronx

438
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: SIOU at Fordham University. The largest employer in the Bronx

439
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:13,639
Speaker 2: is the monsterra House System. And it's just an ethnically

440
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: and racially very district, Dominican and Latino and Puerto Rican

441
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 2: and Mexican population in the South Bronx, an African, American

442
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: and Caribbean population in the Northeast Bronx, a Jewish population

443
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 2: at Riverdale, Irish population, and Woodlaw. And so I have

444
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 2: Little Italy, little Ireland, Little Yemen. It is remarkable for

445
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: its diversity, and I have a special reverence for Arthur Abu. Literally,

446
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 2: there may be no community in New York City that

447
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: has a greater concentration of businesses that have been owned

448
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 2: by the same family for more than one hundred years.

449
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 2: So it's one of the most I would argue it's

450
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 2: the best congressional district in America, But of course I

451
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: have a bias.

452
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: You better, you better say that. So you bought up

453
00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: against AOC in her district? Yes, yes, And what's the

454
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: difference between hers and yours? Is it beyond geography? Beyond

455
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 1: just butting up against I mean what her district is.

456
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: It's not all contained in the Bronx, right.

457
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'm exclusively in the Bronx, whereas AOC represents

458
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 2: both the Bronx and Queens. I split the South Bronx

459
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 2: with AOC, I split the West Bronx with Adriano s

460
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 2: Bayot and I split the Northeast Bronx with George Latimer,

461
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:32,239
Speaker 2: and AOC primarily represents the East Bronx, which happens my

462
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: mother happens to live in her districts.

463
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: Oh, well, there you go. It's just she can't vote

464
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: for you. Mom can't vote for you.

465
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 2: She cannot vote right now. She votes for me in spirit,

466
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 2: but not in practice.

467
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: You served on the New York City Council, and I

468
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: don't think people are fully appreciate how enormous the New

469
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: York City Council is. I mean every time I hear like, wait,

470
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: one hundred and how many members?

471
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: Yes, so I might have had more staff as a

472
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: New York City Council member than I did as a

473
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 2: member of Congress. Unlike most local legislators who operate with

474
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: volunteer staff with part time staffers, New York City has

475
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: a full time, professional legislature. It's about fifty one members,

476
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 2: one of whom is the speaker, and each member of

477
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: the City Council represents about one hundred and sixty to

478
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,479
Speaker 2: one hundred and seventy thousand people and have enormous power

479
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 2: over land use development within their districts. I was in

480
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 2: charge of investigations. I had not only my own personal staff,

481
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 2: but the investigations and oversight division of the City Council

482
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 2: reported to my committee. So it was great preparation for

483
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 2: my role in Congress because I feel like, as a

484
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 2: former city council member, I have an on the ground

485
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: knowledge of how federal policies and programs operate at the

486
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: local level because so much of what we did locally

487
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 2: was essentially the administration of federal programs and for our

488
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: So look.

489
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,479
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with uncapping the House. I think we need

490
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: to double the size of Congress. And you have a

491
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 1: unique You have a nique window here. You went from

492
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: a constituency of about one hundred to one hundred and

493
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: fifty thousand. You just said right, to a constituency of

494
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: approximately eight hundred thousand. Talk to me about those challenges

495
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: and is eight hundred thousand too much? Should it be

496
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: four hundred thousand?

497
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 2: I would maintain the status quo. To be honest with you,

498
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: I can. I mean, the House has trouble functioning with

499
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 2: four hundred and thirty five members. Not to mention the

500
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 2: representatives of territories, the thought of doubling the size of

501
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 2: the House. I mean there is a point at which

502
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: just operationally becomes overwhelming, So I would maintain the status quo.

503
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 2: The greatest concern I have about the House is just

504
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 2: running every two years. That the moment you've won your election,

505
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 2: you're beginning a new election cycle. And I feel like

506
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 2: they're members of Congress who's just spend too much time fundraising,

507
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 2: too much time campaigning. It has a crowding out effect

508
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: on governing. You know, we have two year terms, the

509
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 2: president is four year term, Senators have six year terms.

510
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 2: The Supreme Court as a lifetime appointment. So the House

511
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: got the short end of the stick. Well did it?

512
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: Or is it supposed to be the most small d

513
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 2: democratic right? Like?

514
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: You know, this is where I do think it. I

515
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: think in this case, more is better. If the if

516
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: the founders were here, they would say that.

517
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: It's a good it's a fair point. I would if

518
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 2: I have to choose between a world in which both

519
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: the Senate and the House have four year terms or

520
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 2: the status quo, I probably would prefer both to have

521
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 2: four year terms.

522
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: Interesting, what was the term length on the city council

523
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: four years? Four years and same four years? Or did

524
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 1: they stagger it.

525
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: To your your term limited, so you you're confined to

526
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: two terms. And when I actually, when I entered the

527
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 2: New York City Council, I was in favor of term

528
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: moments because I felt to create space for a new

529
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,479
Speaker 2: generational leadership. But since then, I've become a skeptic because

530
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: the mass exodus of members from the City Council has

531
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 2: led to a real brain train and and it, you know,

532
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 2: has the effect of shifting power from elected officials to

533
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 2: the unelected staff, the permit diet, the so called deep

534
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 2: state of the City Council.

535
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: I am. I believe this every single state legislative capital,

536
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: okay that has done this. The lobbyist run the legislature

537
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: because they have the institutional memory. By the way, some

538
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:40,200
Speaker 1: very well meaning lobbyists. Just because your lobbist doesn't mean

539
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: you're you're only out for the you know, standing up

540
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: for bad guys. It just doesn't. But they're not termalmenting, right.

541
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 2: And I you know, and it's even more so at

542
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: the federal level. You know, the the issues that I

543
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: tack was a member of Congress are so immensely complicating,

544
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: complicated that you cannot learn them? Will you can only

545
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 2: learn them over time by osmosis, and so there is

546
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 2: something to be said for institutional memory. I feel creates

547
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: a much more democratic government.

548
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 1: So I went on a bit of a rant the

549
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 1: other day about the lack of bipartisanship these days. In

550
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: this respect, here you had Donald Trump, who was in

551
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 1: favor of a couple things that they are a majority

552
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: of Democrats that are in favor of raising. He wants

553
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: a tax rate for millionaires as one way. He floated

554
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: it out there. We know that there's Democratic support for that,

555
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: yet he didn't go and seek it. He did an

556
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: executive order on prescription drugs that has no teeth whatsoever.

557
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: If he had worked on finding Democrats to help him,

558
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: you could suddenly probably get some bipartisan legislation. He's not alone.

559
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: The last Democratic president didn't make much. But I don't

560
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: feel like Biden made much of an effort to reach

561
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: out Republicans, and we could say Republicans didn't want to

562
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: be outreached to. Barack Obama had to do Obamacare. So

563
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: George W. Bush basically passed his prescription drug benefits solo.

564
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: What does it take And if Donald Trump came to

565
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: the House, Democratic House, Democratic Caucus and said, hey, I

566
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: want to raise tax I want to create a tax rate,

567
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, a higher tax rate for those that make

568
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 1: two million or more. Are we in a space where

569
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: there could be a bipartisan agreement on that, or is

570
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: the toxicity of Trump himself now make it impossible for

571
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 1: bipartisanship in this current conference.

572
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 2: I feel the appearance of DC is much more partisan

573
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 2: than the reality. Particularly so I want to take issue

574
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: with something you said with Biden. I actually felt, you know,

575
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 2: for all the partisanship, particularly in the wake of January sixth,

576
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 2: that he had a bipartisan and productively bipartisan presidency. Veteran healthcare,

577
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 2: gun safety, chips ack, infrastructure, all of which were passed

578
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 2: on a bipartisan basis. And those are significant pieces of legislation.

579
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 1: Not all of them were. A lot of them were

580
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: in the party line vote, but some of it was

581
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: in the body.

582
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 2: The Inflationial Reduction Act was party line, but ships ack

583
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 2: was bipartisan. Yeah, kind safety was bipartisan. Veteran healthcare was bipartisan,

584
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 2: Infrastructure was bipartisan. And those are four significant pieces of legislation.

585
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: And I'm and Trump one point, oh was with somewhat bipartisan. Right,

586
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 2: you had the trade bill, you had a criminal justice

587
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 2: reform which was actually directly negotiated with Leader Jefferies.

588
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: Right.

589
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 2: Trump two point zero is quite different. I mean, he's

590
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 2: just much more vindictive and aggressive and emboldened than ever before,

591
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 2: and he is poisoning the well and has made it

592
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 2: increasingly impossible for Democrats to have anything resembling a working

593
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 2: relationship with him. So I felt like there were a

594
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 2: prospect for bipartisanship with Trump one point zero. But he's

595
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 2: a radically different person.

596
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: Look, you have a reputation for being incredibly reasonable. Have

597
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: you heard from his congressional liaisons.

598
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: I've had no communication with Trump. I mean I have

599
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 2: relationships with congressional Republicans.

600
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: Sure, No, I'm talking about the Trump White House, you know,

601
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: because I remember stories about the early Reagan days where

602
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: they specific now granted they had a Democratic House they

603
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 1: were dealing with, so there was they certainly they had

604
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: to have relationships if they were going to pass legislation,

605
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,919
Speaker 1: but it was a day one priority. And you're right,

606
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: Trump one point zero did want to you know, there

607
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 1: would be days where it felt like, hey, he brought

608
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: in Democratic lawmakers to have a conversation about this or that.

609
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,840
Speaker 1: There seems to be no demand, no interest in that whatsoever.

610
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,399
Speaker 1: Even as he again, I this prescription drug Executive Order,

611
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: you get three hundred votes in the House for it.

612
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 2: It just suits me as contempt for Congress. He expects

613
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 2: the Republicans to fall in line, and they largely do.

614
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: And he's in vindictive mode. I mean, he's just intent

615
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 2: on dismantling what, you know, the bureaucracy of the government

616
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 2: and higher education. Like everyone including Democrats, seemed to be

617
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 2: on his Nixsonian enemies list. So I see no appetite

618
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 2: for bipartisanship in either direction.

619
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 1: What is that going to I mean, that's a pretty

620
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: ugly next two and a half years we're going to spend,

621
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: is it not.

622
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: It bolts poorly for the country. And look, I think

623
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: a few weeks ago I wrote something to the effect

624
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 2: if a superpower we're planning the seeds of its own decline, right,

625
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: it would paralyze the global economy with a certainty of uncertainty.

626
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 2: It would erode confidence in the reserve status of the dollar.

627
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: It would discard due process, it would defund scientific and

628
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 2: medical research, It would sabotage advanced trip making, and it

629
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: would grow the deficit until debt service becomes the largest

630
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 2: expense in the federal budget, and that is in twenty

631
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 2: twenty five under Donald Trump. But I feel like we're

632
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: in a dangerous place.

633
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: So what do you do as a lawmaker? You're a Democrat,

634
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 1: You're a lawmaker. You in theory, you you're in the

635
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: you're in the arena. What do you what role can

636
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 1: you play to get us out of this?

637
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: Well, well, first we have to I mean I have

638
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 2: to resist, you know, so take Medicaid. There's no congressional

639
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 2: district in America that has a greater stake in Medicaid

640
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 2: than mine. Sixty seven percent of my congressional district is

641
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 2: a role to Medicaid. In my district, more than seventy

642
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 2: percent of troldren, more than eighty percent of nursing home residence,

643
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: more than ninety percent of baby deliveries are covered by Medicaid.

644
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: And so I have to spend much of my political

645
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 2: capital fighting this unprecedented assault on the social safety upon

646
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: which the BRONX is heavily heavily dependent. The largest employer

647
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 2: in the BRONX is the Montafuer Health System, which employs

648
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 2: tens of thousands of people and depends heavily on Medicaid.

649
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: And Medicaid matter not only the districts like mine, but

650
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 2: to Blue states and Red states urban communities.

651
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 1: Well, you saw Josh Holly, Republican senator from Missouri. He's

652
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: well aware of majority of his constituents love Medicaid or reliable.

653
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 2: And it's you know, Medicaid is not only health insurance

654
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: for the lowest income. It has become long term care

655
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 2: for the elderly and the disabled and richie.

656
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: Both my grandmother and my wife's grandmother the end of

657
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,399
Speaker 1: life care that they needed we couldn't have afforded without

658
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: the help of Medicaid both instances.

659
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 2: I feel Medicaid is every bit as vital to senior

660
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 2: citizens as medicare. Like in New York State, the elderly

661
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 2: and the disabled account for twenty percent of the enrollees

662
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 2: but make up sixty percent of the expenses. And so

663
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 2: an attack on Medicaid is ultimately an attack on the

664
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,479
Speaker 2: elderly and the disabled. And that's the case we're making.

665
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:02,280
Speaker 1: Do you take any so the way they're right this bill,

666
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 1: and guys like Chip Roy are unhappy with it. It

667
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: feels as if all of the potential cuts to medicate

668
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: or reforms, whichever side of the ale you want to

669
00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 1: be on on this don't kick in for a few years,

670
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: which means it feels as if they're going to get

671
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: their hamburger today, they'll pay for it down the road,

672
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: and by the time down the road comes, there'll probably

673
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: be a different Congress that make sure those either work

674
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: requirements don't kick in or those cuts don't kick in.

675
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 1: You do you think that's Do you take any sort

676
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: of solace in the fact that that's probably what this

677
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: legislation may end up looking like.

678
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 2: It's not clear and the only issue is not the legislation.

679
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 2: So you know, under Donald Trump, you know, thirteen point

680
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 2: seven million people are in danger of losing their healthcare.

681
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 2: So the Republican Reconciliation Bill could cause eight point six

682
00:40:57,640 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 2: million to lose the healthcare. But then you have the

683
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 2: exp of the Affordable Care Acts premium tax credits, which

684
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 2: might cause four point too many people to lose their healthcare.

685
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 2: And then there's a Trump regulation that could cause one

686
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: point eight million. So those numbers are staggering. That's comparable

687
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 2: to the number of people would have lost their healthcare

688
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 2: during the initial attempt to repeal the Affordable Care Acts.

689
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 2: So I do feel the impact will be felt. Republicans

690
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 2: are going to message that their targets are not the

691
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 2: elderly and the vulnerable, it's undocumented immigrants or its work requirements.

692
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,440
Speaker 2: But you know it's deceptive if you're reducing money for

693
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: the overall system, which will not only kill people's lives

694
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 2: but also livelihoods. And the work requirements are essentially paperwork requirements.

695
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 2: There's no evidence the work requirements lead to actual work.

696
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,400
Speaker 2: It simply causes people to lose their health insurance. So

697
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 2: Arkansas was the first state to implement a work requirements program.

698
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 2: It did not boost employment. It simply led eighteen thousand

699
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 2: people to lose their health insurance in the first five

700
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 2: months of the program, and the majority of those people

701
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 2: were eligible for Medicaid.

702
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 1: What is there a Can you split Medicaid eligibility between say,

703
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: children who are citizens versus maybe one parent who may

704
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: not be.

705
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't, I don't know how you could.

706
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: That's what I'm trying to figure out. I don't know

707
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,080
Speaker 1: how you I get the thesis, but I don't know

708
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: how you do it. And that's what I was curious.

709
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 2: Look, if you are well, if you a seven and

710
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 2: fifteen billion dollars, defunding a Medicaid is going to reduce

711
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: funding for every safety net hospital, for every hospital in America,

712
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 2: which means must care for everyone, not simply for the

713
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 2: population you're targeting. You're reducing funding for the overall system.

714
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,720
Speaker 2: And I also feel like we should be a compassionate society.

715
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 2: If you're an undocumented immigrant and you have a heart attack,

716
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 2: are the Republicans suggesting that you should not get emergency

717
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 2: care and that care should not be covered by the

718
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 2: federal government. Is that the kind of society that we

719
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: want to live in, that we want people to be

720
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 2: left to die because of their immigration status or because

721
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 2: of their income. Like, the consequences of what they're proposing

722
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 2: are barbaric.

723
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 1: So when you is there any so you don't even

724
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: see a feasible way of even if you were trying

725
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 1: to do this and say, well, children who are citizens

726
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: are eligible for Medicaid but their parents are not.

727
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 2: I do not buy that you can surgically target undocumented

728
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 2: immigrants without destabilizing the overall system. I mean, even today

729
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: we are underinvesting in long term care right there, are

730
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 2: eight hundred thousand people on the waiting list for MEDICAI

731
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 2: funded long term care. And we're in aging society, so

732
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:56,760
Speaker 2: more and more people are going to be living longer

733
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 2: and longer their health can needs will become more complex,

734
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 2: The need for long term care will rise over time,

735
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 2: and most of the hospitals and places like New York

736
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 2: are either teetering on the brain core underwater.

737
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: Ritchie, let me tell you on this long term care try.

738
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 1: Even if you think you can afford your own long

739
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: term care policy, you can't get one to sell you.

740
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,840
Speaker 1: My wife and I got our long term care policies

741
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: when we were in our early thirties. We're now in

742
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 1: our fifties. Do you know how many times this insurance

743
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: company has tried to buy us out. They're desperately trying

744
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 1: us to get us off their books. They don't want it.

745
00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: And we got it because she lost her parents early

746
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 1: in life. And you know, it was more of a hey,

747
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: this is our and this is something that we were

748
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 1: concerned about. But there's not even a marketplace for long

749
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 1: term care that's realistic. And I feel like government has

750
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: been dropping the ball on this one for a long

751
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: period of time. Now I don't know what long term care,

752
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 1: government funded insurance looks like here. Do you have a thought,

753
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: do you have a blueprint in your head about how

754
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: you would help to because this is increasingly people are

755
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 1: my age. Right, we've got kids in college, and we've

756
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: got aging parents. Right, We're in this sort of we're

757
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: caught in this. Is there a realistic policy here that

758
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: can help out? Is it all just through medicators or

759
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: something else?

760
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 2: I mean medicaid is what we have. It's inherently expensive.

761
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,320
Speaker 2: I mean, nursing homes are expensive, the siste living is expensive.

762
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: You know, I think we should be advocating for home care,

763
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 2: allowing people to age at home and agent place. But

764
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 2: there's no uskeeping the course. You know, the problem in

765
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: America is not that we're investing too much in long

766
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 2: term care. The problem is that we're investing too little.

767
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: Look, I've got a grandmother. She's all there, she's physically

768
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: just has to be in an assisted living facility. And

769
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: she tells me all the time, She's like, yeah, they're

770
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 1: always understaffed, especially on weekends. They never have enough staff.

771
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: And this is universal and so we have a healthcare

772
00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: worker shortage in this country as well, you.

773
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 2: Know, innovations like telehealth can make a difference. So you know,

774
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,919
Speaker 2: I have a constituent who is caring for her father

775
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 2: who has Alzheimer's, and she would have to wake up

776
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 2: five hours before his appointment in order to pick him

777
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 2: up from his bed and bathe him and feed him

778
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 2: and close him and then bring him down the stairs.

779
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 2: Like the process of bringing him to the hospital was arduous.

780
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 2: And then telehealth is a game changer, right. It allowed

781
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 2: him to receive medical care from the comfort of his

782
00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: own home. So there are innovations that can dramatically lower

783
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:44,399
Speaker 2: the cost of health care and make it more personalized.

784
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: Let me switch to national security. This is also in

785
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,879
Speaker 1: the Middle East and the president's trip. We're speaking here

786
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: when a timestamp is Thursday, May fifteenth, presidents just wrapping

787
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 1: up his trip to the Middle East. I want to

788
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: get your reaction to something he said in a speech

789
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: he gave us Saudi Arabian sort of his version of

790
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: real politique. He said, far too many American presidents have

791
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,319
Speaker 1: been afflicted with the notion that it is our job

792
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 1: to look into the souls of foreign leaders and use

793
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: US policy to dispense justice for their sins. It is

794
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: God's job to sit in judgment, My job to defend

795
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: America and to promote the fundamental interests of stability, prosperity,

796
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: and peace. It's sort of a real polity. Hey, you know,

797
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 1: we're not going to tell Saudi Arabia how to run

798
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 1: their society. We're not going to tell Qatar, We're not

799
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 1: going to tell I assume this also means we're not

800
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: going to tell Germany how they should manage their politics.

801
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 1: But I'll get to that. It is sort of selective here,

802
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: I think a little bit. But in theory what he's saying,

803
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: where are you on that issue? You know, what, should

804
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: America conduct its foreign policy always through this prism of realism?

805
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: How much aspirational pro democracy morality should we also be preaching.

806
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 2: So I'm not a Jacksonian like Donald Trump, but nor

807
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 2: am I Wilsonian. I am skeptical about the use of

808
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:11,720
Speaker 2: American power to spread democracy throughout the world. I thought

809
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 2: both the counterinsurgency in Afghanistan and the decision to invade

810
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 2: Rock was a grave miscalculation, was a grave, colossal waste

811
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: of American resources and lives. I saw one study indicating

812
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 2: that the cost of every post nine to eleven war

813
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 2: is eight trillion dollars when you factor in the cost

814
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 2: of disability benefits and veteran healthcare, and that's eight trillion

815
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 2: dollars not spent on meeting the domestic needs of the

816
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 2: American people. So there is a sense in which his

817
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 2: critique loss.

818
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: Of prestige, lost soft power, things like that that you

819
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 1: can't really put it price on.

820
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:54,800
Speaker 2: There is a sense in which his you know, critique

821
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 2: of neo conservatism resonates widely, including with me and my

822
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 2: My generation, which came of age during the Iraq War

823
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 2: and during the Afghanistan War, is suspicious of the establishment,

824
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 2: and it is suspicious of the whover zealous use of

825
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: American power. But I'm more of a Hamiltonian. I do

826
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: feel like we have to build relationships with countries based

827
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 2: on shared economic interest, but also values do matter. But

828
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 2: you know, someone once made an observation, Someone said to me,

829
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 2: you know, China goes to the Global South and gives

830
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 2: us infrastructure, and America goes to the Global South and

831
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 2: gives us a lecture.

832
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: And one hundred percent there's.

833
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,800
Speaker 2: Something to that. I think, you know, people want to

834
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 2: have a relationship with the United States. They want us

835
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 2: as a security partner. They want us as a trading partner,

836
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 2: and we should have a Hamiltonian focus on winning their

837
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: goodwill rather than lecturing people about their about their government.

838
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 1: All right, well we established that, So let's talk about

839
00:49:54,840 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: Cutter because I've been I've been uh a Cutter skeptic

840
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 1: for some time. The amount of money they throw at Washington.

841
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: I've I'd like to think I've worked really hard to

842
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: make sure it didn't infuse in anything I was working on.

843
00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: But you know, whether it's purchasing a minority stake, and

844
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: are some sports franchises in DC too. It's hard to

845
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: go to an event in Washington that isn't somehow partially

846
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: funded by Cutter. And now this airplane business. How do

847
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: you view them and what they're doing, because they might say, hey,

848
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,440
Speaker 1: we're doing We're doing what Saudi Arabia did in the

849
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:41,160
Speaker 1: seventies and eighties and it worked for them. Why shouldn't

850
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: we use the same playbook.

851
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,720
Speaker 2: I feel like there are two models in the Middle

852
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 2: East right there. There's the Ammaradi and now Sauty model

853
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 2: of pursuing modernization and moderation. Uh, you know, we want

854
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,360
Speaker 2: to we want to put it for you mean on prosperity,

855
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:03,320
Speaker 2: you want to actually, frankly, be more like the West.

856
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 2: And then there's the Iranian and Katari model of sponsoring

857
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 2: terrorism and destabilizing the region. But unlike Iran, the United

858
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 2: States does not treat Qatar like the pariah. It should.

859
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: I feel like Qatar has been a destructive force in

860
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,879
Speaker 2: the world. It is a state sponsor of Hamas, which

861
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:29,120
Speaker 2: committed the deadliest day, you know, October seventh, the deadliest

862
00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 2: day for juic since the Holocaust. So I feel like

863
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 2: there should be a re examination of our relationship with

864
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 2: Qatar and the ties that the Trump administration has to

865
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 2: Qatar or Corus Bohlan.

866
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I look not to be super cynical here,

867
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:46,880
Speaker 1: but I'm going to be for a second. So if

868
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:50,759
Speaker 1: Joe Biden accepted an airplane from Qatar, what do you

869
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 1: think the Republican response would be among your congressional colleagues.

870
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:59,120
Speaker 2: If if Joe Biden were promoting his personal mean coin,

871
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: or selling access to the White House to the two

872
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,959
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty eighes bidders, or receiving two billion dollars

873
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:10,040
Speaker 2: in foreign deposits in exchange for his personal stable coin,

874
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 2: or we're accepting a four hundred million dollar palace in

875
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: the sky. The Republicans would be pursuing his impeachment.

876
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,839
Speaker 1: By the way, would that be outrageous that they were

877
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:22,840
Speaker 1: in your mind.

878
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 2: They would be grounds for doing so?

879
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, you know this is.

880
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 2: Or even if Joe Biden, we're imposing a global tariff regime.

881
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean the out going to Congress without without

882
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,719
Speaker 1: Congression support powers of Congress.

883
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 2: The organizing principle of our politics is no longer policy,

884
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 2: it's personality. Like Donald Trump has completely reversed the diet

885
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 2: ideological dynamics of the two parties. He has made Republicans

886
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 2: the party of protectionism and price controls. I've heard Democrats

887
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:58,720
Speaker 2: quoting Ronald Reagan and Milton Friedman while critiquing Donald Trump's

888
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 2: tariff policy. It's the world has been inverted.

889
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: There's like a there's but now there's small ways that

890
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 1: he's taken advantage of this that might be in net positive.

891
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: He's going to cut a deal with Iron that Joe Biden.

892
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 1: He's literally the same deal that Barack Obama cut. It's

893
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 1: like us MCA versus NAFTA. Right, He's just going to

894
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 1: change the name. I cut the deal. So it's different Syria.

895
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,360
Speaker 1: I'm not sure a democratic president would have any Republican

896
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: support for doing what he did with Syria this week,

897
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,040
Speaker 1: am I am I being overly cynical here.

898
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 2: I think if Biden had done it, there would have

899
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 2: been Look, if Biden had given the speech that Trump

900
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 2: gave in told Arabia, they would have been the same

901
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,360
Speaker 2: outreage against Biden that we saw against Obama when he

902
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,080
Speaker 2: delivered his speech in the Middle East.

903
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,920
Speaker 1: Which also was very similar that Cairo, strikingly some ways

904
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 1: thematically saying hey, look, this is a different culture, these

905
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 1: are different you know, we've got to be careful when

906
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 1: we impose. And yeah, it was a it was deemed

907
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:02,760
Speaker 1: by some unpatriotic, Unamerican.

908
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 2: Or going on an apology tour, right, the apology tour.

909
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: Yes, although it sounds like that this would be that

910
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,959
Speaker 1: he's basically apologizing to our allies in the MIT least.

911
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: What should that teach us about where we're headed with

912
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:22,399
Speaker 1: our politics? And because I sit here, look, eighty five

913
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: percent of what he's doing I think is very damaging.

914
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: But then there's that fifteen percent, Well, look it is

915
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: I think this is healthy that we're trying to move

916
00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:32,879
Speaker 1: to a different place with Iran. It's healthy that we're

917
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,799
Speaker 1: trying trying to your reward, Seria. Look, we had a

918
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 1: policy of getting rid of a sad this guy got

919
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 1: rid of him. Let's give him a chance, right, So

920
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: what does that tell you about maybe how Democrats ought

921
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:48,360
Speaker 1: to use power when they're in charge.

922
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:51,240
Speaker 2: You know, full all, aren't you perfections?

923
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 1: You know?

924
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 2: The Democratic Party, he continues to be a normal political party,

925
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 2: like we are a wide we're an ideologically very coalition

926
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 2: and ranging the squad to the blue deb dogs. The

927
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 2: Republican Party is no longer a normal political party. It's

928
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 2: become a cult to personality around Donald Trump. I mean,

929
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 2: he is a singular phenomenon in American history. I'm aware

930
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,200
Speaker 2: of no political figure who has had as much control

931
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 2: over political party as Donald Trump has had over the

932
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,800
Speaker 2: Republican Party. I mean, it's close.

933
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 1: FDR came close, but that was also he at the

934
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:26,439
Speaker 1: time that the era on his side, if you will, enough,

935
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:29,319
Speaker 1: it was a crisis. But but but then there were

936
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 1: certain Democrats he didn't have control over.

937
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 2: It just feels like the Republican politics has become a

938
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:42,200
Speaker 2: religion and the devotion to Donald Trump has a religious

939
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 2: quality to it.

940
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it does. So let's talk about the Democrats.

941
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:52,319
Speaker 1: What should be the first of all? Do you do

942
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:56,880
Speaker 1: you think Rocanna said that it's time for Democrats to

943
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 1: admit we were wrong about Biden. We should have said

944
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: something sooner. Where are you on the Biden question?

945
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,359
Speaker 2: No course, sure. I mean I think there's no point

946
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 2: in denying that we made a great mistake in thinking

947
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 2: that Biden was remotely capable of running again. So that

948
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: was a mistake that we made as a party and

949
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 2: we should own up to it. I feel like we

950
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 2: should level with people, right.

951
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: I take your point. There is there someone to blame

952
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 1: outside of Joe Biden? Or is this a Joe Biden issue?

953
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 2: I think it's principally Joe Biden and his team. And

954
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 2: keep in mind, you know, one thing I noticed about

955
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 2: Donald Trump is that he's extremely accessible to even the

956
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 2: most rank and file Republicans in the House. Joe Biden

957
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 2: was the exact opposite. He rarely met with members of Congress,

958
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 2: particularly in the House. Maybe his first year he had meetings,

959
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 2: but he was insulated by his staff.

960
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 1: And do you have a meeting with him? Did you

961
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 1: how many times did you have pace.

962
00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 2: I met with him once or two. I was part

963
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,160
Speaker 2: of a small group of people who met with him

964
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 2: early on in his first year, but then he became

965
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:03,920
Speaker 2: less and less accessible over time.

966
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't just members of Congress. Apparently it was

967
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 1: the cabinet as well as far as credibility, I mean,

968
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:13,959
Speaker 1: do you think do you think your leadership because both

969
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 1: Akim Jeffreys and Chuck Schumer have just steered clear of

970
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: this now. I've been critical. I think they should have

971
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 1: sounded the alarm sooner as as leaders of the party

972
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: at the time, but they've not wanted to confront this

973
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,959
Speaker 1: question at the moment. And I get it. On one hand,

974
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,400
Speaker 1: it's like, hey, let's not that's the past. We need

975
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: to deal with what we have now. But what posture

976
00:57:38,520 --> 00:57:39,800
Speaker 1: do you think they should be taken?

977
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 2: I feel like the party collectively shouldmit that we made

978
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:47,439
Speaker 2: a mistake and we're paying a price in the form

979
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 2: of a second Donald Trump presidency, which is far worse

980
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,160
Speaker 2: than even his first. And keep in mind, and look,

981
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 2: I ultimately felt we lost because of inflation and to

982
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 2: a lesser extent, immigration, the migrant crisis. But keep in

983
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,480
Speaker 2: mind the shift of two hundred and fifty thousand votes

984
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 2: in the industrial Midwest could have handed the election to

985
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,840
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris. So maybe if we had an open primary, maybe,

986
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 2: if we had a stronger candidate, Maybe if Joe Biden

987
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 2: has stepped down earlier, the result of the twenty twenty

988
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 2: four election could have been different. And for those reasons,

989
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:23,680
Speaker 2: we should acknowledge that we made a terrible mistake and

990
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 2: not frushing Biden to seek a second term.

991
00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 1: When you see these polls where Democrats are sour on

992
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:36,040
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party right, where they have an unfavorable view

993
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: of the party at the moment, and there's this brand issue,

994
00:58:40,240 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 1: do you think the party has an ideological issue? Is

995
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 1: this a generational issue? What do you see as the

996
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: problems that should be addressed right now?

997
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 2: Look, I do feel we're well positioned to win in

998
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six, but it has more to do with

999
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's weakness than it does with our strength. I mean,

1000
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 2: he's self destructing in real time. But I feel like

1001
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,040
Speaker 2: we should know if there are I do sense to

1002
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 2: be blind among rank and file Democrats, widespread dissatisfaction, and

1003
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 2: we should take that to heart and we should do

1004
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 2: our best to improve and I sense when I'm meeting

1005
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:24,479
Speaker 2: with constituents is a real hunger for more information. People

1006
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 2: want to know, like what is happening, what a we

1007
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,440
Speaker 2: as Democrats doing to resist Donald Trump? And there's a

1008
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 2: hunger for a qual to action. People want to be

1009
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 2: part of something. People want to belong to something greater

1010
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 2: than themselves. And I feel like, as a party, it's

1011
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 2: not enough for us to stand against Donald Trump. We

1012
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 2: have to stand for something. We have to put forward

1013
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 2: a vision that will inspire not only our base but

1014
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 2: the country. Nu Gingridge had the contract with America in

1015
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties. You know, maybe we should have our

1016
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 2: own contract with America. Donald Trump has Project twenty twenty five.

1017
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 2: We ought to have Project twenty twenty nine. So I

1018
01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 2: think my constructive self criticism of my party is that

1019
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 2: we should do more to put forward an affirmative vision

1020
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 2: for moving the country forward.

1021
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton likes to say wrong and strong will always

1022
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: defeat weak and right, and the point being that there's

1023
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:23,840
Speaker 1: a strength. You know, sometimes projecting strength can overcome people

1024
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 1: not liking some of your ideas, and it does. The

1025
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 1: thing that struck me about one survey I saw recently

1026
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,960
Speaker 1: to give a word or phrase, and among Democrats they

1027
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:37,880
Speaker 1: kept saying weak. So what this tells me some people

1028
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: are going to interpret and say, oh, the Democrats need

1029
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:41,880
Speaker 1: to move left or the Democrats need to move right.

1030
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,479
Speaker 1: I'm not sure it's a left right issue. I think

1031
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: it is a strength issue. But you know that's sometimes

1032
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 1: that's eye of the beholder stuff.

1033
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 2: Well, I do feel like if you swing the pencil

1034
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 2: too far to the left, you were all any most

1035
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 2: Americans as we did on immigration, and so I do

1036
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 2: feel like ideology does matter, but but it's it's a

1037
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:09,840
Speaker 2: necessary but insufficient condition. Like we need to have compelling

1038
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 2: messengers on the party, and we need to offer a

1039
01:01:11,560 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 2: compelling visual.

1040
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,560
Speaker 1: Is it? Are you a thousand flowers bloom? Right? Now,

1041
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 1: get everybody into the arena and let's see. Let let's

1042
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: see who rises or is there? Do you want to

1043
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 1: see a little more structure to this, fewer people trying

1044
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: to determine the future of the party.

1045
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 2: What did Will Rod What did Will Rogers say, I'm

1046
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 2: not a member of an organized political party. I'm a Democrat.

1047
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 2: I don't know. Let the let the cream rise, Let

1048
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 2: there be a free marketplace of debate. And you know

1049
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 2: that's what we were lacking in twenty twenty four is

1050
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 2: it was a sense that the political establishment had put

1051
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 2: its thumb on the scale in favor of one cant.

1052
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:55,880
Speaker 1: Don't you feel like it's three nominees in a row. Actually,

1053
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: when you look at the sixteen, twenty and twenty four,

1054
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 1: do you really think Democrat primary voters feel like they

1055
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 1: had to say?

1056
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 2: You know, in British politics, the race for prime minister

1057
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,560
Speaker 2: plays out in a matter of weeks. Our presidential primary

1058
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 2: plays out over the course of a year or more.

1059
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 2: But I feel like it's a character building experience. I mean,

1060
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 2: if you met think about I remember Barack Obama was

1061
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 2: the first president I voted for her, and I felt

1062
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 2: like at the end of the process he was a

1063
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 2: far better candidate. Oh and he was in the beginning.

1064
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: True, I'm a big defender of the long campaign. I

1065
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 1: know I'm a total polar opposite on this. I think

1066
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: the long campaign, by the time you actually become president,

1067
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: it's almost feels easier than the slog I mean, you know,

1068
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: the decisions are weightier, don't get me wrong, right deciding

1069
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 1: how much TV should we put on in Wisconsin or

1070
01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 1: what trips, But the grueling punishment, the David Aswell calls

1071
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: it an MRI for the soul running for president, which

1072
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: I believe in. So it's you think the lung campaign.

1073
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 2: Actually, I see it as a character building experience. And

1074
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 2: it could have been the case that it would have

1075
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 2: resulted in Vice President Harris as the nominee, but she

1076
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 2: would have been a better and stronger nominee because of

1077
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:16,320
Speaker 2: the process. That the process matters as much as the substance,

1078
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:19,120
Speaker 2: and in fact, it improves the substance the.

1079
01:03:19,120 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 1: Ten thousand hour effect, right, welcome Gladwell's ten thousand hours.

1080
01:03:22,160 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 1: You campaign for two years. You've done your ten thousand

1081
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:28,760
Speaker 1: hours of stupid interviews with people like me, you know,

1082
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 1: glad handing whatever it is, the roundtables, and you sort

1083
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 1: of you learn, you just figure it out. No, it's

1084
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 1: an interesting point. Why aren't you running for New York

1085
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: City mayors? How many members I could tell you this,

1086
01:03:49,720 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: I will just I'm gonna I'm gonna make you blush here.

1087
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 1: I got a lot of friends and family in New

1088
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:57,160
Speaker 1: York City and they're very disappointed you're not running.

1089
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 2: Them. How do I answer your question without diminishing the

1090
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 2: role of mayor? I have a few thoughts. First, it's

1091
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 2: probably Michael Blomberg has described it as the best job

1092
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:12,840
Speaker 2: I've heard him described it as the best job you

1093
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:13,600
Speaker 2: ever had.

1094
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,760
Speaker 1: But I'd argue it's one of the five most powerful

1095
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: elected positions in the globe.

1096
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 2: I feel is second. It is the second most demanding

1097
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 2: executive position in America, second only to the presidency and

1098
01:04:28,040 --> 01:04:31,160
Speaker 2: the New York City Press Corps is notoriously aggressive and ruthless,

1099
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 2: but I feel the prestige of the position exceeds the

1100
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,040
Speaker 2: actual power The mayor cannot.

1101
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 1: Well, you are on the council, you would know this

1102
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 1: better than most.

1103
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:47,280
Speaker 2: So explain that cannot install speak cameras without the approval

1104
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 2: of the state legislature. That the most important questions on

1105
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 2: matters of housing and healthcare and public safety are often

1106
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 2: decided at the state level by the state legislature and

1107
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,400
Speaker 2: by the governor. And so I just feel the state

1108
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:04,840
Speaker 2: has a much greater systemic impact in advancing the issues

1109
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 2: that I care about. And then one more point. You know,

1110
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 2: historically the mayor's office has been a graveyard where a

1111
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 2: political careers go to die. Uh So, if I were

1112
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 2: looking to retire prematurely, then that would be the right

1113
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 2: place for me.

1114
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:20,120
Speaker 1: To go. I guess the reason why. I think some

1115
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 1: of my well connected friends they see you as somebody

1116
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 1: that might be able to bring the city together, and

1117
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: they're just nervous about having a retread politician. You know,

1118
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,880
Speaker 1: they don't love the choice here make them feel better.

1119
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 2: Uh, look, I I'm going to vote for Andrew Cravoo

1120
01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 2: and and I'm gonna you know, share, share, share what

1121
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 2: I respect about the debtor. And I'm sure you've been

1122
01:05:50,680 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 2: following there's a new movement on on the left known

1123
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 2: as the Abundance. Who've been mm hmm and and it's

1124
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 2: you know, it's based on a recognition that America is

1125
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:03,000
Speaker 2: no longer a nation of builders. We've become a nation

1126
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 2: of bureaucrats. And to his credit, Andrew Cromo was one

1127
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 2: of the few executives in the twenty first century who

1128
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 2: was a genuinely great builder. Laguardier Airport, moyni Hen Train Hall,

1129
01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 2: Mario Cuomo Bridge. You know, that's a rarity. You know,

1130
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 2: it was once common in the early twentieth century. But

1131
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 2: you know, he's one of the few executives who have

1132
01:06:26,240 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 2: proven ability to execute on grand infrastructure projects. And so

1133
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 2: that to me represents Governor Cloma at his best, and

1134
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:35,960
Speaker 2: that's why I would vote for him, because I see

1135
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:37,760
Speaker 2: him as the most experience of everyone in the field.

1136
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 1: Does he need to do more on the on sort

1137
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:42,640
Speaker 1: of acknowledging the character flaws?

1138
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 2: I feel I think we all benefit from acknowledging our failings.

1139
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:50,240
Speaker 2: I think when you level with people and say I

1140
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 2: made mistakes and I have failings, people appreciate him.

1141
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: I have resistance to that tone. I've not heard that

1142
01:06:58,680 --> 01:06:59,400
Speaker 1: tone from him.

1143
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 2: There is something to be set for humility and acknowledging

1144
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 2: your own fallibility. That's just human. People want their elected

1145
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:15,920
Speaker 2: officials to be vulnerable and authentic and humble and acknowledge

1146
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:16,480
Speaker 2: and like them.

1147
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:18,880
Speaker 1: It's a representative democracy.

1148
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,360
Speaker 2: It will all work in progress, right. You know, I've

1149
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 2: made decisions that I regret, but you live and you learn.

1150
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:28,439
Speaker 1: So it sounds like to me you've made the case

1151
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: that if you want to make life better in New

1152
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:32,480
Speaker 1: York City, the best place for you to do that's

1153
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 1: an Albany and you've been floated. They've been rumored about that,

1154
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: So let me ask you directly. You know, is that

1155
01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:42,120
Speaker 1: something you've thought about for twenty six or not yet.

1156
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 2: I'm exploring a run for governor. I will make a

1157
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:49,360
Speaker 2: final decision in the summer after the mayor's race. I'll

1158
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 2: conduct polling. But but if you ask me what would

1159
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 2: I prefer? Would I prefer to be one of four

1160
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:57,160
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty five or one of five hundred and

1161
01:07:57,160 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 2: thirty five in Congress, or an executive with a uni

1162
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 2: lateral domain of action. I would prefer to be an

1163
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 2: executive because you could have a far greater impact in

1164
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:05,440
Speaker 2: improving people's lowed.

1165
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:07,520
Speaker 1: Let's talk about housing. This is a passion of yours.

1166
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 1: You grew up in public housing, you see, you know

1167
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:16,839
Speaker 1: housing is essential. We have a housing crisis in this country.

1168
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: And it's not just in New York, it's everywhere. You know.

1169
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 1: It's the biggest argument in the county that I live

1170
01:08:22,400 --> 01:08:24,799
Speaker 1: in Arlington County, how are we going to get more housing?

1171
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:27,880
Speaker 1: And it's you know, ymbi's versus nimbi's and all of that. Right,

1172
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,680
Speaker 1: what do you think you could do as governor of

1173
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:39,320
Speaker 1: New York to supercharge the availability and the affordability of

1174
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 1: housing for everyday New Yorkers?

1175
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 2: And so at the core of the affordability crisis is

1176
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 2: a gap between supply and demand. Like the demand for

1177
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 2: affordable housing for exceeds the supply. There's a need for

1178
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 2: both deeper housing subsidy and greer housing supply. So we

1179
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 2: have to expand the supply of housing so that we

1180
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 2: can meet the demand. But we also have to ensure

1181
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 2: that the housing we do create is affordable to the

1182
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 2: lowest income families. One of the criticisms of affordable housing

1183
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 2: in New York is that much of the affordable housing

1184
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 2: we create is unaffordable to the poorest New Yorkers. And

1185
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:15,799
Speaker 2: so I'm in favor of a concept known as housing vultures.

1186
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 2: Fall like every family either who's homeless or struggling with

1187
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:24,080
Speaker 2: with housing and security should have access to a voucher

1188
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 2: which ensures that you pay no more than thirty percent

1189
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 2: of your income towards your rent. Universalizing access to vultures

1190
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 2: would radically reduce the amount of homelessness and housing and

1191
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,920
Speaker 2: security in American society. So that's one piece. But second,

1192
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 2: we have to expand housing supply. I do feel are

1193
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:45,000
Speaker 2: in public review process. Our environmental review process is so

1194
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 2: cumbersome that it stifles affordable housing creation in blue cities

1195
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,680
Speaker 2: and blue states like New York and those processes have

1196
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 2: to be reformed so that we can build, We can

1197
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:57,839
Speaker 2: re establish our country as a nation of builders.

1198
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:02,720
Speaker 1: So your campaign for governorce, if it happens, housing I know,

1199
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 1: is going to be in the top of that list.

1200
01:10:04,040 --> 01:10:06,559
Speaker 1: What else is on on the top of your agenda

1201
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:08,960
Speaker 1: that the voter's going to think? No, if you do

1202
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 1: run the focus of your campaign.

1203
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 2: Lower cost, lower crime rates.

1204
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 1: That simple. And you feel, as governor, how do you

1205
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:22,719
Speaker 1: impact the crime right? As governor?

1206
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 2: Well, public safety policy is ultimately set at the state level,

1207
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,760
Speaker 2: and I would submit to you New York has the

1208
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:35,680
Speaker 2: most dysfunctional criminal justice system in the country. We have

1209
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 2: a practice of releasing repeat violent offenders, which has led

1210
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 2: to a cycle of recidivism. So since twenty nineteen, there's

1211
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:46,640
Speaker 2: been a one hundred and fifty percent rise in the

1212
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 2: number of repeat offenders for felony assaults, more than eighty

1213
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 2: percent for robberies, more than sixty percent for burglaries and shoplifting,

1214
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 2: more than one hundred percent for grand larcity auto, more

1215
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 2: than seventy percent for grand larsity. And I'll cite one example.

1216
01:11:02,520 --> 01:11:04,720
Speaker 2: There was a gentleman by the name of a man

1217
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:08,559
Speaker 2: by the name of Jamar Banks who stabbed to people

1218
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:11,839
Speaker 2: on New Year's Day, and he had fifty four priors,

1219
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 2: including an attempt shooting, a murder, multiple stabbings, multiple acts

1220
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 2: of domestic violence. And despite his extensive criminal history, he

1221
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:23,519
Speaker 2: was released back onto the streets, where he proceeded to

1222
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:27,200
Speaker 2: commit more violence against more innocent New Yorkers. And here's

1223
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 2: the problem. New York is the only state in the

1224
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:34,559
Speaker 2: country that prohibits judges from considering the public safety risks

1225
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:39,680
Speaker 2: of repeat violent offenders. You can only consider flight risks

1226
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:42,839
Speaker 2: and the question of whether judges should have the authority

1227
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 2: to consider public safety risk. If I were to present

1228
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 2: that question to the people of New York in the

1229
01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:51,759
Speaker 2: form of referendum, it would be an eighty twenty issue.

1230
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 2: Eighty percent of New Yorkers would vote for it. Why change?

1231
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,759
Speaker 1: Is this a legislative legislative It's going to take legislation, yes.

1232
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 2: But the trouble with City Hall, the trouble with City Hall,

1233
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:07,639
Speaker 2: Albany and Washington d C. Is that common sense has

1234
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 2: become dangerously income. And one of the criticisms that I

1235
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:13,639
Speaker 2: have of my own party is that there are times

1236
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 2: when when more responsive to special interest groups than we

1237
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,759
Speaker 2: are to everyday people on the ground, particularly on issues

1238
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:20,519
Speaker 2: of public safety.

1239
01:12:21,120 --> 01:12:26,360
Speaker 1: On if Governor Holcal is there anything she could do

1240
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:28,800
Speaker 1: to convince you not to challenge her?

1241
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:32,920
Speaker 2: I mean, if she becomes an effective governor, then certainly

1242
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 2: that could persuade me to.

1243
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:36,679
Speaker 1: Is there an issue you could see if she took

1244
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:39,240
Speaker 1: up it would be persuasive or unlikely?

1245
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:42,839
Speaker 2: At this point, the issue, it's not a failure of conception,

1246
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 2: it's a failure of execution. Like, there are issues in

1247
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 2: which I agree with the governor, but I just feel

1248
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:53,000
Speaker 2: like she's fundamentally and effective at governing the state. And

1249
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:56,719
Speaker 2: I'll be blunt, I'm not aware of any New Yorker

1250
01:12:56,720 --> 01:13:00,639
Speaker 2: who's like a passionate Kathy hocal supporter, Like when when

1251
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 2: Andrew Coromo was governor, he had a deep reservoir support.

1252
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 1: Hundred percent and up to some people.

1253
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm aware of no one who's like a passionate

1254
01:13:10,280 --> 01:13:15,160
Speaker 2: champion of Kathy Hochl. She simply benefits from the power

1255
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 2: of incumbency. And but look, the broken system is deeper

1256
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 2: than one governor, and it long predates the incumbent governor.

1257
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 2: You know, in twenty fifteen, New York had a one

1258
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 2: hundred and forty two billion dollar budget twenty twenty four

1259
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:39,360
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty four billion dollar budget. I am

1260
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:41,920
Speaker 2: not aware of a single New York who has seen

1261
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:44,880
Speaker 2: a one hundred and ten billion dollar improvement in the

1262
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:46,600
Speaker 2: delivery of state services.

1263
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:52,679
Speaker 1: So, you know, your challenge to her. It's not easy

1264
01:13:52,720 --> 01:13:54,640
Speaker 1: to say, are you challenging her from the left or

1265
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 1: the right? You're not. Really, It's not really an ideological challenge.

1266
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:00,240
Speaker 1: If you end up doing this, this is really more

1267
01:14:00,280 --> 01:14:01,080
Speaker 1: of a competency.

1268
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 2: I feel like transcend those I feel like I transcend

1269
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 2: those categories.

1270
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:07,760
Speaker 1: Well, no, it's why, it's why so many of my

1271
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:09,320
Speaker 1: friends in New York wish you would be the next

1272
01:14:09,320 --> 01:14:13,120
Speaker 1: mayor because of that, the idea that you're not easily

1273
01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 1: pigeonholed and that you have a broader, a broader perspective.

1274
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 2: Some would think of my advocacy for public safety as

1275
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,439
Speaker 2: challenging from the right. I would disagar that characterization because

1276
01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:26,040
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah.

1277
01:14:25,880 --> 01:14:28,400
Speaker 1: But you you know that that's how it'll look as

1278
01:14:28,439 --> 01:14:29,719
Speaker 1: far as the polling is concerned.

1279
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 2: Right, we're concerned about affordability. I mean, that's argued, you know,

1280
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 2: that could be argued that that's a challenge from the left.

1281
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:38,320
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm I'm someone, for example, who believes that

1282
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:43,000
Speaker 2: our public utilities, particularly our gas and electric utilities, should

1283
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:46,400
Speaker 2: be owned by the pension files so that people pay

1284
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:52,080
Speaker 2: a far lower rate. I mean, every every year my

1285
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 2: constituents have seen double digit increases.

1286
01:14:56,479 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 1: The government pension fund should be should own the elect Yeah,

1287
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:03,760
Speaker 1: that's an interesting.

1288
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:05,680
Speaker 2: Because I don't want to get too complicated.

1289
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 1: But no, no, no, no, but I find this a fascinating idea.

1290
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:13,680
Speaker 2: Go. Yeah, So the Public Service Commission regulates utilities like

1291
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 2: con Edison, and the trouble with the Public Service Commission,

1292
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 2: which is ultimately accountable to the governor, is that it

1293
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 2: authorizes a rate of return that's far above the actual

1294
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 2: cost of capital, the actual cost that you would need

1295
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:31,599
Speaker 2: to operate the utility. And I'm convinced if those utilities

1296
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:35,160
Speaker 2: were owned by pension funds, which would which would demand

1297
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:40,040
Speaker 2: lower returns than shareholders because their patient capital. Like if

1298
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:43,479
Speaker 2: you tell them we guarantee you six percent returns for

1299
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 2: the next fifty years, they're happy with six percent. They

1300
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:48,760
Speaker 2: don't need nine percent, they don't need ten percent. So

1301
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:52,479
Speaker 2: I'm convinced that public ownership of these utilities to the

1302
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:57,160
Speaker 2: pension funds would actually lower cost utility cost for everyday

1303
01:15:57,200 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 2: New Yorker's.

1304
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 1: I'll tell you I had not heard an idea like that.

1305
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:05,880
Speaker 1: That makes it especially when you think about the cost

1306
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,720
Speaker 1: of pensions and all of this. It is, it's a

1307
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 1: it's an to me, that's a that's an interesting idea

1308
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:15,439
Speaker 1: to sort of solve two problems, if you will.

1309
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 2: But is that left wing or right wing? You could

1310
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:20,080
Speaker 2: argue that's an attack from the left, but I just

1311
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:21,959
Speaker 2: think that's common sentence. It's good policy.

1312
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:24,400
Speaker 1: No, you could sit here, I could make a right

1313
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 1: wing argument against it or left wing argument against it

1314
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:30,479
Speaker 1: right which is the beauty of the idea. Sometimes sometimes

1315
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:32,840
Speaker 1: you just have good ideas or bad ideas. You know,

1316
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:35,000
Speaker 1: it's okay to be a technocrat. And I say that

1317
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 1: with with I mean Michael Bloomberg problem.

1318
01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:41,360
Speaker 2: My core criticism of the progressive is that it's become

1319
01:16:41,439 --> 01:16:45,559
Speaker 2: more concerned with ideological purity and with the actual functioning

1320
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:49,519
Speaker 2: of government. And what I appreciate about the Abundance movement

1321
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:53,479
Speaker 2: is that it sends the message, no competence matters, the

1322
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 2: functioning of government matters.

1323
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 1: This is what concerned It's funny you say that's about

1324
01:16:57,439 --> 01:16:59,400
Speaker 1: the progressive. But this is what concerns me about the

1325
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:03,759
Speaker 1: reactionary nature of what we've the so called successful rise

1326
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 1: of Trump, and that there are folks on the left

1327
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:10,599
Speaker 1: that look at what MAGA was successful, it was able

1328
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 1: to do, and they see that as a blueprint.

1329
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,879
Speaker 2: It's the wrong lesson. Yeah, the I feel the American

1330
01:17:17,880 --> 01:17:23,200
Speaker 2: people have a pattern of punishing incompetence. When George W.

1331
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:28,360
Speaker 2: Bush catastrophically mismanaged the response to Katrina, he never recovered,

1332
01:17:29,040 --> 01:17:33,600
Speaker 2: Right When when when Joe Biden sloppily with true from Afghanistan,

1333
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:36,400
Speaker 2: he never recovered, you know when?

1334
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 1: I don't know if Trump's going to recover. Yeah, I

1335
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:39,680
Speaker 1: don't think that's recovering from this.

1336
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,840
Speaker 2: When he missed, I would argue, but for the mismanagement

1337
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:44,680
Speaker 2: of COVID, Trump would have been re elected to a

1338
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:49,560
Speaker 2: second Yeah, butt for the mismanagement of the migrant crisis

1339
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 2: as well as inflation, a Democrat would be in the

1340
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 2: White House. So competence matters. And the people ask me,

1341
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 2: you know, how should we we structure the Democratic Party?

1342
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:04,160
Speaker 2: And for me, the key to restructuring the Democratic Party

1343
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:09,760
Speaker 2: is restructuring democratic governance. Good governance is good politics, Delivering

1344
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:10,800
Speaker 2: is good politics.

1345
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 1: I've held you longer than I promised your staff that

1346
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 1: I would, so uh, not a bad way to end competence.

1347
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:20,960
Speaker 1: That is, I always say I'm not people like to

1348
01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 1: understand my politics, and I'm always like, I'm just who's

1349
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 1: going to get stuff done? Excuse my language, right, Who's

1350
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 1: just going to get stuff done? That that's kind that's

1351
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:34,320
Speaker 1: sort of in the rational middle, the folks that live

1352
01:18:34,360 --> 01:18:35,719
Speaker 1: between the thirty five yard lines.

1353
01:18:37,560 --> 01:18:39,000
Speaker 2: So I'm on that scene.

1354
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:41,439
Speaker 1: So it is. It is good to see are you

1355
01:18:41,720 --> 01:18:44,599
Speaker 1: are you? Are you fired up about the Knicks. By

1356
01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:46,679
Speaker 1: the time this airs will know whether they didn't blow

1357
01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:48,400
Speaker 1: it in Game six or not. I hope they don't.

1358
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:52,040
Speaker 1: It's fun to I hate rooting for New York teams.

1359
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:54,200
Speaker 1: It's fun to root for this next team.

1360
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:57,920
Speaker 2: No, it's it's long overdue. And I know my chief

1361
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:00,320
Speaker 2: of staff is fanatical about the next He is even

1362
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 2: more excited than I am.

1363
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:04,080
Speaker 1: Is Well, yeah, Jalen Brunson could maybe be the next

1364
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:09,400
Speaker 1: mayor of New York City if things go right. Richie Torres,

1365
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:17,720
Speaker 1: congressman from the Bronx, good to see it, Thank you well.

1366
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:19,880
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Richie Torres, how

1367
01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:23,200
Speaker 1: about that he does not think much of Kathy Hokeel

1368
01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:28,400
Speaker 1: he is and also believes there is more power to

1369
01:19:28,560 --> 01:19:31,720
Speaker 1: fix New York City as governor of New York than

1370
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:34,920
Speaker 1: it is to be mayor of New York, which I

1371
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 1: think introduces an interesting set of questions for Andrew Cuomo,

1372
01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:42,240
Speaker 1: who is the front runner to be the next mayor

1373
01:19:42,280 --> 01:19:45,320
Speaker 1: of New York City. How often is he going to

1374
01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:49,080
Speaker 1: say certain things he can't deal with because he's got

1375
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:51,800
Speaker 1: a it's it's up to the it's up to the

1376
01:19:51,840 --> 01:19:55,920
Speaker 1: democratic governor. So a fascinating set of analysis there from

1377
01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:58,720
Speaker 1: Richie Torres. I think that is somebody to pay attention to.

1378
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:03,080
Speaker 1: And if he she does challenge her in a primary,

1379
01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:05,679
Speaker 1: you know the problem. The one thing she could benefit

1380
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:09,160
Speaker 1: from is if there's multiple candidates in her former lieutenant

1381
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:12,080
Speaker 1: governor's challenge, possibly she could end up having two or

1382
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:16,559
Speaker 1: three primary challengers, which would guarantee her renomination. The question

1383
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:19,439
Speaker 1: is going to be can she win a one on

1384
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:22,840
Speaker 1: one if it ever gets down to being a one

1385
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,360
Speaker 1: on one? And I think with the anger that is

1386
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:29,719
Speaker 1: out there among Democrats, I think incumbent democrats in general

1387
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:33,400
Speaker 1: are all going to be have targets on their back

1388
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:36,519
Speaker 1: from voters. I think you're going to have to prove

1389
01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:39,599
Speaker 1: to voters that you're willing to go in a different direction,

1390
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:43,559
Speaker 1: that you're willing not to sort of to sort of

1391
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:47,280
Speaker 1: be a part of whatever this democratic establishment has been

1392
01:20:47,320 --> 01:20:52,160
Speaker 1: the last decade. So being an incumbent politician is going

1393
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:56,719
Speaker 1: to be tough. I think a tougher road in Democratic

1394
01:20:56,800 --> 01:21:02,040
Speaker 1: primaries than maybe some incumbents are prepared, are prepared to

1395
01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 1: believe in. Speaking of that, it does look like and

1396
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:10,360
Speaker 1: you heard it from Rocanna. I love the fact that

1397
01:21:10,960 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 1: podcast listeners heard it here before CNN reported it, which

1398
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:18,599
Speaker 1: was Rocanna said that she's been doing. The stuff she's

1399
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:21,680
Speaker 1: been doing in California are what candidates for governor do,

1400
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:25,040
Speaker 1: meaning she was going to events that only statewide candidates

1401
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 1: go to. Essentially, what Rocanna was saying me, the guy

1402
01:21:28,439 --> 01:21:30,479
Speaker 1: is thinking about running for president. It's not going to

1403
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:34,440
Speaker 1: those events. But she is now. Of course, news circulating

1404
01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:38,160
Speaker 1: that she appears to be leaning more towards running for

1405
01:21:38,280 --> 01:21:40,920
Speaker 1: governor of California and twenty six and obviously if she

1406
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:44,799
Speaker 1: makes that decision, she's taking herself out of the presidential

1407
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 1: sweepstakes in twenty twenty eight. You've heard me say this before,

1408
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 1: but for those that haven't heard this, I think this

1409
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:54,680
Speaker 1: is going to be a tougher campaign for her than

1410
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:58,960
Speaker 1: she realizes. And if she does run, she is going

1411
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:03,080
Speaker 1: to that the shadow, the five o'clock shadow that is

1412
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:08,040
Speaker 1: Richard Nixon, is going to be hovering over her. Richard

1413
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:11,400
Speaker 1: Nixon loses a close race as a sitting vice president

1414
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:15,280
Speaker 1: for the presidency in nineteen sixty, decides to go home

1415
01:22:15,280 --> 01:22:19,479
Speaker 1: to California run for governor, and he loses to Jerry

1416
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:25,519
Speaker 1: Brown's father Pat Brown. It was after the infamous you

1417
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:28,439
Speaker 1: won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore, as he

1418
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:31,720
Speaker 1: yelled at the press Corps after losing in sixty two.

1419
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:35,599
Speaker 1: That's where that quote came from. And then he spent

1420
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:38,599
Speaker 1: the next six years preparing to see if he could

1421
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 1: come back and win the presidency in sixty eight, which

1422
01:22:41,080 --> 01:22:45,519
Speaker 1: of course he did. I do think there are some

1423
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 1: lessons here for Harris in the Nixon campaign. I think

1424
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:52,160
Speaker 1: a lot of voters saw Nixon in sixty two. Is

1425
01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:56,160
Speaker 1: somebody that he was running for governor as a consolation prize. Well,

1426
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:59,200
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris, if she's running for governor in twenty six

1427
01:22:59,320 --> 01:23:02,760
Speaker 1: has to explain she never planned on being available to

1428
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:05,000
Speaker 1: run for governor twenty six. After all, I don't think

1429
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 1: anybody believes that she was going to run for governor

1430
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 1: of California in twenty six as the sitting president, So

1431
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 1: it's a consolation prize. She also is going to have

1432
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:18,719
Speaker 1: to It's pretty clear, and it's going to be interesting.

1433
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 1: Later this week, you're going to hear an interview that

1434
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:25,160
Speaker 1: I conducted about last week with another candidate for governor,

1435
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 1: a wealthy developer who was close to Harry Reid for

1436
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:32,160
Speaker 1: a long time named Steve Klueback. And Steve Kluebeck is

1437
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:35,040
Speaker 1: quite the personality. And look, I don't want to take

1438
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 1: away from the interview itself, but when you hear it,

1439
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:40,559
Speaker 1: you may be one part entertained, in one part scratching

1440
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:43,559
Speaker 1: your head, and one part liking what you hear, in

1441
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:46,160
Speaker 1: one part a little uncomfortable. The point is is that

1442
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:50,240
Speaker 1: he's a big personality, and he is some he's not

1443
01:23:50,280 --> 01:23:52,760
Speaker 1: a big fan of Kamala Harris, and he will not

1444
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:57,519
Speaker 1: will not hold back, and I think that that's going

1445
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:00,200
Speaker 1: to be she is going the minute she gets in,

1446
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:02,960
Speaker 1: there's gonna be a whole bunch of people who are

1447
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:06,240
Speaker 1: going to target her in a negative way in all

1448
01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 1: sorts of directions. Her connection to Biden is going to

1449
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:12,240
Speaker 1: be an issue. What did she see? What didn't she see?

1450
01:24:12,240 --> 01:24:16,599
Speaker 1: Why didn't she say something? Perhaps she's going to take

1451
01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:20,160
Speaker 1: heat for not for the campaign that she ran for president.

1452
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:21,880
Speaker 1: I think for the most part, she ran a pretty

1453
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:25,320
Speaker 1: good campaign for president given the situation she was in.

1454
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:29,080
Speaker 1: But she's got an answer for the fact that she

1455
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 1: didn't sound the alarm that sooner about Joe Biden that

1456
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:34,840
Speaker 1: she you know, You've even had some some on the

1457
01:24:34,920 --> 01:24:37,320
Speaker 1: right say how come she didn't push to invoke the

1458
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:40,880
Speaker 1: twenty fifth Amendment and things like that. So while I

1459
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 1: think that's a bit extreme, she still has to provide

1460
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:47,720
Speaker 1: an answer that isn't snarky and that isn't defensive, and

1461
01:24:47,760 --> 01:24:54,439
Speaker 1: that is believable. So look, I'm I'm a skeptic. On

1462
01:24:54,439 --> 01:24:57,000
Speaker 1: one hand. Look, if she's in the top two, she's

1463
01:24:57,080 --> 01:25:01,559
Speaker 1: probably the next governor. But I think this is an

1464
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:05,840
Speaker 1: awfully risky decision because what's interesting if she decided not

1465
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:09,479
Speaker 1: to run in twenty six for any office and chose

1466
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:12,880
Speaker 1: not to run in twenty eight for any office, I

1467
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:17,759
Speaker 1: think she could have sort of preserved herself to possibly

1468
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:20,799
Speaker 1: run for governor in twenty thirty or run for president

1469
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 1: in twenty thirty two. But she's putting herself in a

1470
01:25:24,160 --> 01:25:29,320
Speaker 1: situation where she loses a governorship in twenty six and

1471
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:32,519
Speaker 1: she can't get and she can't win that race, her

1472
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 1: political career is over. There's no comment back from that.

1473
01:25:35,479 --> 01:25:39,080
Speaker 1: Not in this era. Maybe Richard Dixon could pull it

1474
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:44,559
Speaker 1: off back in an era of three television channel and

1475
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:48,880
Speaker 1: no internet, no communications system like we have today. So

1476
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:53,080
Speaker 1: I will say this, I think it's an awfully risky decision,

1477
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:58,320
Speaker 1: and I just don't know if I'd be making a

1478
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 1: decision like this for an office I hadn't thought about

1479
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:04,080
Speaker 1: running for before. I mean, that's a real question I

1480
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:07,559
Speaker 1: have for her. Have you thought about being governor? When? When?

1481
01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:09,920
Speaker 1: You know? When was when was the first time you

1482
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:13,679
Speaker 1: ever thought about being governor of California? Did it only

1483
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:20,439
Speaker 1: start after you lost the presidents Anyway, it's a it's

1484
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:22,280
Speaker 1: going to be interesting to watch and it certainly will

1485
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:25,880
Speaker 1: become one of the premier races that national media covers

1486
01:26:26,040 --> 01:26:30,360
Speaker 1: if she does indeed run. All Right, that's the end

1487
01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 1: of my Monday, big kind of praise my Gnats. They

1488
01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:38,840
Speaker 1: swept the Orioles and the Big Beltway Series. I think

1489
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:42,320
Speaker 1: the Oriols firing their manager after Game one tells you

1490
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 1: everything you need to know about the state of the Orioles.

1491
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:48,160
Speaker 1: But man paging my friend David Rubinstein, a bunch of

1492
01:26:48,240 --> 01:26:51,840
Speaker 1: US NATS fans were upset. David Rubinstein is this wealthy industrialist.

1493
01:26:51,880 --> 01:26:54,400
Speaker 1: He's the owner of the Orioles. He's also the guy

1494
01:26:54,400 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 1: that Donald Trump fired from the Kennedy Center. I will

1495
01:26:58,120 --> 01:26:59,479
Speaker 1: just tell you a lot of US NATS fans were

1496
01:26:59,479 --> 01:27:01,559
Speaker 1: disappointed and when he chose to buy the Orioles, when

1497
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:04,799
Speaker 1: I was hoping he'd be the person to buy the Gnats,

1498
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,519
Speaker 1: but he's a Baltimore native and he want to. He's

1499
01:27:07,560 --> 01:27:10,519
Speaker 1: going to become a reviled owner pretty quickly. Forget Donald

1500
01:27:10,520 --> 01:27:13,720
Speaker 1: Trump not being his biggest fan. He's going to have

1501
01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:17,400
Speaker 1: the entire Orioles fan base angry with him because before

1502
01:27:17,439 --> 01:27:20,080
Speaker 1: he was owner, they were winning one hundred games and

1503
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:23,720
Speaker 1: ninety one games. Since he's become owner, they didn't have

1504
01:27:23,760 --> 01:27:26,559
Speaker 1: any big free agent signings. In fact, they lost a

1505
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:30,800
Speaker 1: big free agent in Corbyn Burns, and now they have

1506
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:32,720
Speaker 1: a worse und I'll tell you this. I never thought

1507
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:35,640
Speaker 1: they'd have a worse record than the Nats at this

1508
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:38,679
Speaker 1: point in the season, but they do. This was supposed

1509
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:40,280
Speaker 1: to be an Oriols team on the rise. They've got

1510
01:27:40,360 --> 01:27:44,800
Speaker 1: some amazing young talent. So kudos to my Gnats, my

1511
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:48,040
Speaker 1: man James Wood, Dylan Cruz even got a Homer was

1512
01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:51,360
Speaker 1: Homer have it on Sunday? So look, if I can't

1513
01:27:51,880 --> 01:27:54,880
Speaker 1: take this opportunity to use my own podcast to praise

1514
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 1: the Gnats, and what the hell do I have my

1515
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:59,840
Speaker 1: own podcast for, right, So with that, I'll take the

1516
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:02,800
Speaker 1: twenty four hour break of sorts and I'll talk to

1517
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Speaker 1: you the next time we upload to you again. M