WEBVTT - Re-Release: Michelle Zauner 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:00.760 Yeah. 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:02.800 I mean I feel like we've let go of timelines 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:05.040 so hugely in this past year and a half, Like 0:00:05.080 --> 0:00:07.400 the idea of deadlines and timelines and time has just 0:00:07.440 --> 0:00:10.119 been so elastic. I've had to create discipline that I 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.560 didn't have previously. And I also like react badly when 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:15.480 people are like, Okay, this has to be done by this. 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:17.799 Time, and it's like, well, why if time is elastic? 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.560 Is that what you say? How does that go? 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.880 Over's? Literally as like I wish i'd said that. I'm not. 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:27.640 I didn't say that to anybody except you. 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:30.680 Start I'm going to start saying that to my manager. 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.280 Time is elastic? 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:37.000 What do you mean? Eleven thirty? Time is elastic? 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:43.800 Hello, I'm Mini driver and welcome to Mini Questions. I've 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.600 always loved Pruce's questionnaire. It was originally an eighteenth century 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:51.280 parlor game meant to reveal an individual's true nature, but 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.320 with so many questions, there wasn't really an opportunity to 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.200 expand on anything. So I took the format of Prus's 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:00.240 questionnaire and adapted what I think are serve one of 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.680 the most important questions you could ever ask someone they 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:08.040 are when and where were you happiest what is the 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:13.520 quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:18.000 defines love for you? What question would you most like answered, 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:23.240 What person, place, or experience has shaped you the most? 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.720 What would be your last meal? And can you tell 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.480 me something in your life that has grown out of 0:01:30.520 --> 0:01:34.760 a personal disaster. The more people we ask, the more 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.360 we begin to see what makes us similar and what 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.880 makes us individual. I've gathered a group of really remarkable 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:44.080 people who I am honored and humbled to have had 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:50.360 a chance to engage with. My guest today is musician, author, 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:56.280 and poet in my estimation, Michelle's Honor. Michelle records as 0:01:56.320 --> 0:02:00.520 the band Japanese Breakfast, and her new record Jubilee is 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:04.639 now one of my favorite albums. We have both lost 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.680 our mothers and listening to the last three of her 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:14.640 album's tracks an extraordinary journey through patience, rage, and grief. 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:18.400 My favorite song on her new album is called Posing 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:22.160 in Bondage, and there's a line that I think about 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.239 a lot in it. It goes those who run from 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:31.240 pain those who have yet to. I felt intensely comforted 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:34.680 by her purview of loss, and the music is like 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:40.639 this awesome low fi, nimble, pop funk. It's just excellent. 0:02:40.880 --> 0:02:43.200 And she's also written an extraordinary book that was on 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.600 the New York Times bestseller list called Crying in h Mart, 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:51.360 which is deft and hilarious and heartbreaking all at the 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:54.600 same time. I'm such a fan of hers, and I 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.799 feel like I owe her for showing me that there 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.720 is at least some of light at the end of 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:11.200 the tunnel of grief. What person, place, or experience has 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:12.560 most altered your life. 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:16.280 I feel like my entire life right now feels very 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.880 folded in half around this moment of losing my mom. 0:03:20.000 --> 0:03:22.440 I'm a very different person after that. My whole life changed. 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:25.520 I mean, my whole family just dissolves when my mom 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:28.399 passed away. My dad moved to Thailand and we don't 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:32.920 speak anymore. And you know, this person that represented my 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.360 entire family is gone, but lives on in me in 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:38.040 this new way. 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.040 So I lost my MoMA a month and a half ago. 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.000 Oh my god, I'm so sorry. 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:45.600 But I've I've got to tell you. 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.400 I didn't know the stories behind your albums. And when 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:53.560 I went back and I listened with this new purview, 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.080 when I got listened to posing in bondage. 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.600 I was like, this is where I'm gonna get. 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:03.119 M so lovely to hear thank you so much. 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:05.400 The fact that your record do you believe? Like what 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:06.440 that means in. 0:04:06.440 --> 0:04:09.000 Terms of like the word itself, and the idea that 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:14.440 there is celebration. There is celebration beyond death. There is 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:18.479 celebration in the relationship that develops with your parent after 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:22.640 they die that nobody really talks about, and that energetically 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.960 right now, even though I'm not there, the idea that 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.080 I'm going to get to this place, because when I 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.359 read parts of Crying in h Mart, it was realizing 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:36.719 it was so familiar. Obviously the whole it's so familiar, 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.160 but the idea that there is a journey that even 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.200 though it feels like life stopped, it goes on and 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:44.960 you carry on and do you believe in me? Felt 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:49.679 like the emergence of life again, life after loss, real 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.919 life after death was so beautiful and so amazing, and 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:58.680 I'm so I'm so grateful because it's been so comforting 0:04:59.080 --> 0:05:00.640 to listen to your music. 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.159 Oh, thank you so much. That means so much to me. 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:08.080 I feel like you've just put into words that I 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.200 am still wrapping my head around trying to explain, and 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:15.159 so it hits me so hard that I feel like 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.160 you've just gotten completely what I meant to say, and 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.760 it's the first time I'm hearing it back to me. 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.479 So I really appreciate that. 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.000 How great that it is meaningful? How great that what 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.600 you're doing as an artist, because surely work quite self 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:34.000 regarding as artists, you know we're in our process. But 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:38.280 to create something that not only touches people but genuinely 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:42.880 helps them, I think is very It's rare. Sorry, I've like, 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:44.400 you know, we've been on for two minutes. 0:05:44.440 --> 0:05:45.080 I've cried. 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.320 I've told you no, that's so moving, Like it's nuts. 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.560 I mean, it's a rare, precious thing to get to 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:56.720 be vulnerable and impacted deeply by art. I mean, there's 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:59.640 no greater gift to get to share with you. So 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:00.880 I appreciate it. 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:02.760 You're welcome. I think you're right. 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.479 Artists don't often know how they've impacted the people who 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.000 are who are metabolizing their aret. 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:09.800 I mean, that's why you do it too. I feel 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.120 like so much of the past couple of months has 0:06:12.160 --> 0:06:16.479 just been the rush of like running to make force 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.040 people to like interact with your art, you know, so 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:22.159 you forget when it actually hits someone, and like why 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:23.920 you actually do it in the first place, because you're 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:28.120 so convinced sometimes that your art is hitting because of 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.880 like a marketing scheme or something. So it's nice to 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:35.240 be reminded that the actual thing is doing something much 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:37.279 more important, I think. I also, you know, there's a 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.000 line in that new song posing in Bondage and ASO 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.240 expanded up on in the book, where I say, you know, 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:46.080 when the world divides into two people, those who have 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:47.440 felt pain in those who have yet to. 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.039 I've wrote it down. I have it written right here. 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.599 Oh well, those who run from pain, those who have 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:55.479 yet too. 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:59.320 Yeah. I feel like that's how I see the world now. 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:01.640 And it's endless, like frustrating when you know people who 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.400 haven't gone through this experience, and it feels like such 0:07:04.400 --> 0:07:07.800 an unfair hand to be dealt. But I also found 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.640 I have a much deeper sense of compassion to other people. 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.119 It was almost like I was invited into this new club. 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:16.680 I didn't want to be part of it, that's exactly, 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.160 that's exactly. Yeah. But I remember after my mom died, 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.680 I was sitting at a kitchen table with my mother 0:07:23.760 --> 0:07:27.560 in law and her mother, my husband's grandmother, and they 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.120 were telling me about, you know, my mother in law's 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:34.280 brother died when she was in college. They were in 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.960 college together, and you know, she was telling me about 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.120 this experience, and then her mother was saying, you know, 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:41.080 I used to cry every day on the way to 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.680 work in the car and every day when I came home. 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.600 And now it was a strange feeling because I don't 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:48.440 know if they would have told me that story if 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.960 I hadn't sort of gone through this type of grief, 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:52.560 and I don't know if I would have felt it 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:57.720 so deeply, such an intense understanding, or even the way 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.200 that I feel towards you right now, that when you 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.560 just know that someone has gone through that you're understanding 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:07.680 and your feelings of closeness to a person really alters 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.360 after you go through something like that. And even though 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:12.520 it's really hard and it's not necessarily a club you 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:16.760 want to be a part of, there is some like 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.600 deeper connection to people. I think that you do start 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:21.680 to feel after you go through something like that that 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.920 is actually really beautiful one hundred. 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:30.120 It moves from being I was angry, it's so awful 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:30.600 to say it. 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:31.600 Yeah. Yeah. 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.439 Then you then feel isolated in like you're this total pariah. 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.679 And then when you start talking to people who actually 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.400 have lost their moms and you realize that it's such 0:08:40.400 --> 0:08:44.840 a particular club, it's such a particular journey. You are 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.440 very young to lose your mama. I mean, I'm one 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:55.880 hundred and forty, you know, I was. I'm older in it, 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.640 you know, but like it's still it was still too soon. 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:19.760 It was still too soon. What relationship, real or fictionalized, 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:21.400 defines love for you. 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:26.520 I have a really wonderful relationship with my husband, and 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.040 I'm really lucky because we had dated for about a 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.360 year and a half when my mom got sick, and 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.800 when we found out her cancer was terminal, I called 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.200 him from a hospital in Korea and I was like, 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:43.320 if this is something that you are thinking of doing 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:45.800 in the next five years and you don't just do 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.600 it now, I don't think I'll ever be able to 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:52.320 forgive you. And so we threw together a wedding three 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:54.079 weeks before my mother passed away. 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:55.360 Oh my god. 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:58.280 Because I was an only child, and you know, for me, 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.280 you know, getting married was never really that important of 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:03.280 a thing. For me, but I knew it was a 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.480 tremendously important thing for my mom and that if I 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:07.679 ever got married and she wasn't there, it would just 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.280 destroy me. I could never enjoy myself at a wedding. 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.560 So we were really lucky that she was able to 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.440 go to the wedding, and she went into a coma 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.320 two weeks after we got married. We got married in 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.679 my parents' backyard. I talked about it in the book, 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.800 and I am so lucky that it worked out. I mean, 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.600 I told him, you know, well, just get divorced if 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.080 it doesn't work out, you know, like we'll be like 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:36.439 young hip divorces. And you know, we can refer to 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.560 our first marriages in this like very you know, mature way, 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.400 you know, in our late twenties. And it just I 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.560 got so lucky because I think it worked out so 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.920 well because my family was able to fold him into 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.120 ours so seamlessly, and his family was able to embrace 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.160 me in such a deeper way because we got married, 0:10:55.520 --> 0:10:59.360 and I think maybe subconsciously I could feel my nuclear 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:04.000 family apart and sort of needed to recreate that with someone. 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.400 And yeah, I mean I just I never knew that 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:09.360 I could feel this way about someone, and I feel 0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:13.880 like we are very perfectly matched in this way that 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:19.960 you know, seemed realistically impossible, and so I can't think 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.559 of a I can't think of a greater love than our. 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.840 It's honestly, I truly feel that way. I'm very lucky 0:11:25.880 --> 0:11:27.160 to have found that in my life. 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:27.840 Yeah. 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:31.240 Also, I think in a way, backing into these things 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.720 like it not happening in a traditional way, often it 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.120 destroys all of our previous ideas about it. The hearing 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.200 that you called him up and were like, listen, we 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:43.040 got to get married, or like or i'll hate you 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:46.120 or I hate you, just so you know, and the 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.280 fact that he could go this ritual is so important 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:51.680 to this person that I love. And not only that, 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.160 but like to her mother, I will do this as 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.120 an experience, but I love that the pressure is taken 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:57.720 off because it's like, yeah, and if we get divorced, 0:11:57.760 --> 0:11:59.880 then maybe we'll get married again when we're like thirty. 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.199 Five, marriage right, exactly, like observing. 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:05.280 The traditional desire of your mum to see you married, 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.240 but getting rid of the expectation it doesn't have to 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.000 work out. It's okay, And then that defines love. 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.600 Yeah, and he. I mean, I wrote that song Till 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.000 Death about him, and you know, I don't know if 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:20.520 I could have honestly been there for someone so selflessly 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.160 the way that he was there for me during that time, 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.679 because you're just I mean, you know, like when you 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:31.080 go through the grief of losing someone so monumental to 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.320 your life, you become. 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:37.280 So useless, totally and utterly useless. 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.600 For a year, I felt like I was relearning how 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.600 to walk, you know, relearning how to feed myself, relearning 0:12:44.640 --> 0:12:49.040 how to you know, breathe, and to have someone just 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.600 stand by you because there's absolutely nothing they can do 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.040 but just wait it out with you and wait for 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.760 the person they love to come back. I was really 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.120 lucky that I had someone like that, you know, to 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:03.400 just wait it out with me. 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.720 I love I love that because you're right, it's standing 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.760 and waiting it out. And I felt that way when 0:13:11.080 --> 0:13:13.920 when my mom was dying, was that all all we 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:17.240 could do was to be with her, was to hold 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.920 her hand and to be there and to love her. 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:25.160 And that's exactly what my boyfriend is doing for me now. 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:26.240 It's just standing. 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:27.360 Yeah, he's not. 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.320 Trying to fix it because it's unfixable. It's kind of 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:35.440 like it's like standing by a really beautiful, really old tree. 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.320 It feels he's not old. He's actually much younger than me, 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:43.920 but it's he's an old tree in my in my life. Yeah, 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:46.920 it's funny, that, isn't it, Particularly when I don't know 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:49.280 about you. But I am such a doer. I want 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:50.920 to fix stuff. I want to make you know, I'm 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:52.800 a mom. I want to fix stuff for my kids. 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.079 I want to I want to make it better. And 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.800 you simply cannot make this better. You just have to 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:02.240 stand and witness it with as much compassion as you can. 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:06.280 I guess totally. And there's just no skipping steps. I mean, 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.280 it is it's like a you know it is. It 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:11.520 is something that you just have to let take you 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.800 like a current, Like it's not it's not going to 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.160 wait for you, and when you think you've conquered it, 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.400 it's going to kick your ass in a totally new way. 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:20.240 I feel like. 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.160 It's so true, and that by the way, it is 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.960 process like we are being forced or we are forced 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.280 to process this. There's no getting around it. There's no 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:33.560 jumping to the end of the alphabet. You have to 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.760 go through every step, and that felt suffocating to begin 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:41.320 with for me in the early days of grief, but 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.200 now it's sort of more of a this is. 0:14:44.160 --> 0:14:44.640 What we do. 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:48.160 We wake up every day and you meet your grief 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:50.360 and you don't know how it's going to take you, 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:52.600 but you go with the current of it. You allow 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.080 that because fighting it is actually so much worse. 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:57.240 Are you do you mind? If I ask her, are 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:58.480 you having a lot of dreams? 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:01.960 You know? 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.600 The strangest thing and that this is the part that 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.880 I've actually apart from her not being here, the thing 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.840 I've found hardest is that I have not dreamt. I've 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.640 been I've dreamt my whole life, like vividly, like write 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:17.200 them down dreams. I have not had a dream since 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:21.160 she died. And it's been it's been devastating. It's been 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.480 devastating to me that I haven't seen her in a dream. 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:28.080 It'll happen. It'll happen when you're not at this place 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:29.400 where you're like where are you? 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.240 You know, That's exactly it. 0:15:31.360 --> 0:15:33.280 Because my aunt, I'm pretty sure, was like, are you 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:35.160 dreaming about her? And I was like, oh my god, 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.120 I'm not, you know, like is that wrong? 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:38.920 Yeah? 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:40.440 And I think it must have been because I was 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.600 like searching for it. But I feel like they they'll 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:47.200 come like when you aren't thinking about wanting them so badly, 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:47.520 you know. 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.040 I wonder if they think it would make it worse, 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.440 if they're like, it would actually make it so much 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.160 worse if you do so. I don't want you to 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:56.120 wake up thinking that you've been with me. You need 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.120 to you need to have that little time path. 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.080 You know. It was so frustrating because you see them 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.160 and then it's like trying to call your way back 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.360 to sleep and you can never do it. And it's 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.640 a really interesting part though. I mean, it's so interesting 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:10.440 because you think that all of these things are very 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.160 unique to you, but every person that goes through it 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.200 goes through the same thing. Even when I got married, 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.440 I was like, oh, I did this weird thing. And 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:22.120 I heard so many stories about people who put weddings 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.440 together when their parents were sick. Because there's a natural 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.720 you know, all human beings are kind of made up 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:27.280 of the same. 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:32.360 Stuff, exactly in the Venn diagram of our experiences, these 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.320 you know, matter made visible. There is so much that 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.520 is fundamental to all of us. We'll do the same 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.840 things in the same situations. I kind of love that 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:51.160 it feels tribal. Hmm, what is the quality that you 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:52.920 least like about yourself. 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:59.800 I'm incredibly impatient in everything, and I can forget to 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:02.640 enjoy things sometimes. 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.960 Because you want the result like you, so you don't 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.000 pay attention to the journey of it as it were. 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:12.120 Absolutely, yeah, that's my issue with art making. And sometimes 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.000 it's the great thing. But I'm not one to dwell 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.840 in the process, and I envy my husband's like that. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:22.199 He is all processing sometimes never gets anything done because 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.119 he can learn something, can really take his time and 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.359 have full understanding of something, whereas I often tend to 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:33.400 skip steps and not in relish the process of things. 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.400 But I also can be really impatient with people too, 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:38.199 and I wish I wasn't like that. 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.680 What triggers you about a person, like if they take 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:43.520 too long telling a story or what is it? 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:48.560 Yeah? Yeah, that's definitely yeah, yeah, yeah, there's that. And 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.000 also if I think I'm quick to cut people out 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.600 of my life or like snap to judgment in a 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:56.400 way I don't suffer fools, Well. 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:58.560 I know I'm exactly the same. 0:17:58.640 --> 0:18:00.720 I think a lot of it comes from my though, 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:04.000 because my mom raised me in this way where sometimes 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.439 my friends will confide in me about something, and you know, 0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.200 my natural desire is to fix it. But I think 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:12.359 that when your friends confide in you, they're not asking 0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:14.880 you to fix something. They just want to let it go, 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:16.840 you know, and they want someone to listen to them. 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:18.760 I want, I mean, I really want to get better 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.560 at like not being like, well, obviously you do this, 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:24.080 and then when they don't do that, you get naturally 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:26.160 kind of upset about it. And as I get older, 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.560 I'm realizing like, they're going to do whatever they want 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.520 to do. You can be you can offer some sound advice, 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:33.760 but I think largely what your friend really wants you 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:35.760 to do is just to be quiet and to listen 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:40.640 and offer up support. And I think sometimes I get 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:43.200 confused and I'm like, well, clearly this is like these 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:44.840 are the steps you need to take. And then if 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.359 they don't take them, because they're human and they have 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:53.840 their own interests and desires, like I have gotten frustrated 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.439 in the past, and that's like totally unfair and uh, 0:18:56.680 --> 0:18:57.960 something that I just need to work on. 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:01.760 I think, well, we all have stuff to work on. 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:07.800 But wait, so, because you write a lot about traditional 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.560 Korean cooking, and it feels to me that there is 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:15.520 an enormous amount of process in that, in the process 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.080 of cooking, in the process of like shopping for the 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:19.920 ingredients and. 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:20.640 The whole thing. 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.960 So is that an area where you're not focused on 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.879 the result, you really are in the journey. Would you 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.439 say that there's a lot of flow when you're making food. 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.199 I do think so. I think it is like this 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.879 really tactle intuitive thing where you don't I'm not after 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:41.879 anything really when I'm doing I am like sort of 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:43.879 in the process of that, and I enjoy it and 0:19:43.920 --> 0:19:48.080 I don't have to mentally like go after something in 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:50.240 the same way that I go after it in other 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:52.639 parts of my life. And I think that that's something 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:55.280 that I've really enjoyed about cooking, is because I'm such 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:58.840 analytical in my head person and there's none of that 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:01.480 really when you're cooking. It's all you know, very You're 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:04.960 very present and not thinking about the future really at all, 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:09.960 and your mind kind of unbusies itself in this beautiful way. 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.359 That's so interesting. So it's like that's a that is 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:15.639 a meditation. I mean, that would be my description of 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:21.399 meditation or the meditative quality of absolutely. Yeah, that's so funny. 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.240 I think I read in something. I think it was 0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:26.840 in the New Yorker in the excerpt from your book, 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:30.120 where you were like, somebody said, you just add enough 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:32.280 something until it tastes like mom's. 0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:35.040 Oh yeah, yeah, sesame oil, Are things enough? 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:38.600 Samele? Did it taste that your mom's? That was excellent? 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:39.520 Thank you? 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:40.080 Yeah. 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:40.440 Yeah. 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.200 There's this meal that my mom would make for me 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:46.760 every time I came home from college. She would marinate 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:51.520 this short rib it's called Colby, this sweet Korean short 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:57.440 rib with white rice, this white radish kimchi in this 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:02.120