Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean I feel like we've let go of timelines
Speaker 2: so hugely in this past year and a half, Like
Speaker 2: the idea of deadlines and timelines and time has just
Speaker 2: been so elastic. I've had to create discipline that I
Speaker 2: didn't have previously. And I also like react badly when
Speaker 2: people are like, Okay, this has to be done by this.
Speaker 3: Time, and it's like, well, why if time is elastic?
Speaker 1: Is that what you say? How does that go?
Speaker 3: Over's? Literally as like I wish i'd said that. I'm not.
Speaker 3: I didn't say that to anybody except you.
Speaker 1: Start I'm going to start saying that to my manager.
Speaker 1: Time is elastic?
Speaker 3: What do you mean? Eleven thirty? Time is elastic?
Speaker 2: Hello, I'm Mini driver and welcome to Mini Questions. I've
Speaker 2: always loved Pruce's questionnaire. It was originally an eighteenth century
Speaker 2: parlor game meant to reveal an individual's true nature, but
Speaker 2: with so many questions, there wasn't really an opportunity to
Speaker 2: expand on anything. So I took the format of Prus's
Speaker 2: questionnaire and adapted what I think are serve one of
Speaker 2: the most important questions you could ever ask someone they
Speaker 2: are when and where were you happiest what is the
Speaker 2: quality you like least about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized,
Speaker 2: defines love for you? What question would you most like answered,
Speaker 2: What person, place, or experience has shaped you the most?
Speaker 2: What would be your last meal? And can you tell
Speaker 2: me something in your life that has grown out of
Speaker 2: a personal disaster. The more people we ask, the more
Speaker 2: we begin to see what makes us similar and what
Speaker 2: makes us individual. I've gathered a group of really remarkable
Speaker 2: people who I am honored and humbled to have had
Speaker 2: a chance to engage with. My guest today is musician, author,
Speaker 2: and poet in my estimation, Michelle's Honor. Michelle records as
Speaker 2: the band Japanese Breakfast, and her new record Jubilee is
Speaker 2: now one of my favorite albums. We have both lost
Speaker 2: our mothers and listening to the last three of her
Speaker 2: album's tracks an extraordinary journey through patience, rage, and grief.
Speaker 2: My favorite song on her new album is called Posing
Speaker 2: in Bondage, and there's a line that I think about
Speaker 2: a lot in it. It goes those who run from
Speaker 2: pain those who have yet to. I felt intensely comforted
Speaker 2: by her purview of loss, and the music is like
Speaker 2: this awesome low fi, nimble, pop funk. It's just excellent.
Speaker 2: And she's also written an extraordinary book that was on
Speaker 2: the New York Times bestseller list called Crying in h Mart,
Speaker 2: which is deft and hilarious and heartbreaking all at the
Speaker 2: same time. I'm such a fan of hers, and I
Speaker 2: feel like I owe her for showing me that there
Speaker 2: is at least some of light at the end of
Speaker 2: the tunnel of grief. What person, place, or experience has
Speaker 2: most altered your life.
Speaker 1: I feel like my entire life right now feels very
Speaker 1: folded in half around this moment of losing my mom.
Speaker 1: I'm a very different person after that. My whole life changed.
Speaker 1: I mean, my whole family just dissolves when my mom
Speaker 1: passed away. My dad moved to Thailand and we don't
Speaker 1: speak anymore. And you know, this person that represented my
Speaker 1: entire family is gone, but lives on in me in
Speaker 1: this new way.
Speaker 3: So I lost my MoMA a month and a half ago.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3: But I've I've got to tell you.
Speaker 2: I didn't know the stories behind your albums. And when
Speaker 2: I went back and I listened with this new purview,
Speaker 2: when I got listened to posing in bondage.
Speaker 3: I was like, this is where I'm gonna get.
Speaker 1: M so lovely to hear thank you so much.
Speaker 3: The fact that your record do you believe? Like what
Speaker 3: that means in.
Speaker 2: Terms of like the word itself, and the idea that
Speaker 2: there is celebration. There is celebration beyond death. There is
Speaker 2: celebration in the relationship that develops with your parent after
Speaker 2: they die that nobody really talks about, and that energetically
Speaker 2: right now, even though I'm not there, the idea that
Speaker 2: I'm going to get to this place, because when I
Speaker 2: read parts of Crying in h Mart, it was realizing
Speaker 2: it was so familiar. Obviously the whole it's so familiar,
Speaker 2: but the idea that there is a journey that even
Speaker 2: though it feels like life stopped, it goes on and
Speaker 2: you carry on and do you believe in me? Felt
Speaker 2: like the emergence of life again, life after loss, real
Speaker 2: life after death was so beautiful and so amazing, and
Speaker 2: I'm so I'm so grateful because it's been so comforting
Speaker 2: to listen to your music.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you so much. That means so much to me.
Speaker 1: I feel like you've just put into words that I
Speaker 1: am still wrapping my head around trying to explain, and
Speaker 1: so it hits me so hard that I feel like
Speaker 1: you've just gotten completely what I meant to say, and
Speaker 1: it's the first time I'm hearing it back to me.
Speaker 1: So I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2: How great that it is meaningful? How great that what
Speaker 2: you're doing as an artist, because surely work quite self
Speaker 2: regarding as artists, you know we're in our process. But
Speaker 2: to create something that not only touches people but genuinely
Speaker 2: helps them, I think is very It's rare. Sorry, I've like,
Speaker 2: you know, we've been on for two minutes.
Speaker 3: I've cried.
Speaker 1: I've told you no, that's so moving, Like it's nuts.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a rare, precious thing to get to
Speaker 1: be vulnerable and impacted deeply by art. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: no greater gift to get to share with you. So
Speaker 1: I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: You're welcome. I think you're right.
Speaker 2: Artists don't often know how they've impacted the people who
Speaker 2: are who are metabolizing their aret.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's why you do it too. I feel
Speaker 1: like so much of the past couple of months has
Speaker 1: just been the rush of like running to make force
Speaker 1: people to like interact with your art, you know, so
Speaker 1: you forget when it actually hits someone, and like why
Speaker 1: you actually do it in the first place, because you're
Speaker 1: so convinced sometimes that your art is hitting because of
Speaker 1: like a marketing scheme or something. So it's nice to
Speaker 1: be reminded that the actual thing is doing something much
Speaker 1: more important, I think. I also, you know, there's a
Speaker 1: line in that new song posing in Bondage and ASO
Speaker 1: expanded up on in the book, where I say, you know,
Speaker 1: when the world divides into two people, those who have
Speaker 1: felt pain in those who have yet to.
Speaker 3: I've wrote it down. I have it written right here.
Speaker 2: Oh well, those who run from pain, those who have
Speaker 2: yet too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like that's how I see the world now.
Speaker 1: And it's endless, like frustrating when you know people who
Speaker 1: haven't gone through this experience, and it feels like such
Speaker 1: an unfair hand to be dealt. But I also found
Speaker 1: I have a much deeper sense of compassion to other people.
Speaker 1: It was almost like I was invited into this new club.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be part of it, that's exactly,
Speaker 1: that's exactly. Yeah. But I remember after my mom died,
Speaker 1: I was sitting at a kitchen table with my mother
Speaker 1: in law and her mother, my husband's grandmother, and they
Speaker 1: were telling me about, you know, my mother in law's
Speaker 1: brother died when she was in college. They were in
Speaker 1: college together, and you know, she was telling me about
Speaker 1: this experience, and then her mother was saying, you know,
Speaker 1: I used to cry every day on the way to
Speaker 1: work in the car and every day when I came home.
Speaker 1: And now it was a strange feeling because I don't
Speaker 1: know if they would have told me that story if
Speaker 1: I hadn't sort of gone through this type of grief,
Speaker 1: and I don't know if I would have felt it
Speaker 1: so deeply, such an intense understanding, or even the way
Speaker 1: that I feel towards you right now, that when you
Speaker 1: just know that someone has gone through that you're understanding
Speaker 1: and your feelings of closeness to a person really alters
Speaker 1: after you go through something like that. And even though
Speaker 1: it's really hard and it's not necessarily a club you
Speaker 1: want to be a part of, there is some like
Speaker 1: deeper connection to people. I think that you do start
Speaker 1: to feel after you go through something like that that
Speaker 1: is actually really beautiful one hundred.
Speaker 2: It moves from being I was angry, it's so awful
Speaker 2: to say it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Then you then feel isolated in like you're this total pariah.
Speaker 2: And then when you start talking to people who actually
Speaker 2: have lost their moms and you realize that it's such
Speaker 2: a particular club, it's such a particular journey. You are
Speaker 2: very young to lose your mama. I mean, I'm one
Speaker 2: hundred and forty, you know, I was. I'm older in it,
Speaker 2: you know, but like it's still it was still too soon.
Speaker 2: It was still too soon. What relationship, real or fictionalized,
Speaker 2: defines love for you.
Speaker 1: I have a really wonderful relationship with my husband, and
Speaker 1: I'm really lucky because we had dated for about a
Speaker 1: year and a half when my mom got sick, and
Speaker 1: when we found out her cancer was terminal, I called
Speaker 1: him from a hospital in Korea and I was like,
Speaker 1: if this is something that you are thinking of doing
Speaker 1: in the next five years and you don't just do
Speaker 1: it now, I don't think I'll ever be able to
Speaker 1: forgive you. And so we threw together a wedding three
Speaker 1: weeks before my mother passed away.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Because I was an only child, and you know, for me,
Speaker 1: you know, getting married was never really that important of
Speaker 1: a thing. For me, but I knew it was a
Speaker 1: tremendously important thing for my mom and that if I
Speaker 1: ever got married and she wasn't there, it would just
Speaker 1: destroy me. I could never enjoy myself at a wedding.
Speaker 1: So we were really lucky that she was able to
Speaker 1: go to the wedding, and she went into a coma
Speaker 1: two weeks after we got married. We got married in
Speaker 1: my parents' backyard. I talked about it in the book,
Speaker 1: and I am so lucky that it worked out. I mean,
Speaker 1: I told him, you know, well, just get divorced if
Speaker 1: it doesn't work out, you know, like we'll be like
Speaker 1: young hip divorces. And you know, we can refer to
Speaker 1: our first marriages in this like very you know, mature way,
Speaker 1: you know, in our late twenties. And it just I
Speaker 1: got so lucky because I think it worked out so
Speaker 1: well because my family was able to fold him into
Speaker 1: ours so seamlessly, and his family was able to embrace
Speaker 1: me in such a deeper way because we got married,
Speaker 1: and I think maybe subconsciously I could feel my nuclear
Speaker 1: family apart and sort of needed to recreate that with someone.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean I just I never knew that
Speaker 1: I could feel this way about someone, and I feel
Speaker 1: like we are very perfectly matched in this way that
Speaker 1: you know, seemed realistically impossible, and so I can't think
Speaker 1: of a I can't think of a greater love than our.
Speaker 1: It's honestly, I truly feel that way. I'm very lucky
Speaker 1: to have found that in my life.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Also, I think in a way, backing into these things
Speaker 2: like it not happening in a traditional way, often it
Speaker 2: destroys all of our previous ideas about it. The hearing
Speaker 2: that you called him up and were like, listen, we
Speaker 2: got to get married, or like or i'll hate you
Speaker 2: or I hate you, just so you know, and the
Speaker 2: fact that he could go this ritual is so important
Speaker 2: to this person that I love. And not only that,
Speaker 2: but like to her mother, I will do this as
Speaker 2: an experience, but I love that the pressure is taken
Speaker 2: off because it's like, yeah, and if we get divorced,
Speaker 2: then maybe we'll get married again when we're like thirty.
Speaker 1: Five, marriage right, exactly, like observing.
Speaker 2: The traditional desire of your mum to see you married,
Speaker 2: but getting rid of the expectation it doesn't have to
Speaker 2: work out. It's okay, And then that defines love.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he. I mean, I wrote that song Till
Speaker 1: Death about him, and you know, I don't know if
Speaker 1: I could have honestly been there for someone so selflessly
Speaker 1: the way that he was there for me during that time,
Speaker 1: because you're just I mean, you know, like when you
Speaker 1: go through the grief of losing someone so monumental to
Speaker 1: your life, you become.
Speaker 3: So useless, totally and utterly useless.
Speaker 1: For a year, I felt like I was relearning how
Speaker 1: to walk, you know, relearning how to feed myself, relearning
Speaker 1: how to you know, breathe, and to have someone just
Speaker 1: stand by you because there's absolutely nothing they can do
Speaker 1: but just wait it out with you and wait for
Speaker 1: the person they love to come back. I was really
Speaker 1: lucky that I had someone like that, you know, to
Speaker 1: just wait it out with me.
Speaker 2: I love I love that because you're right, it's standing
Speaker 2: and waiting it out. And I felt that way when
Speaker 2: when my mom was dying, was that all all we
Speaker 2: could do was to be with her, was to hold
Speaker 2: her hand and to be there and to love her.
Speaker 2: And that's exactly what my boyfriend is doing for me now.
Speaker 2: It's just standing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's not.
Speaker 2: Trying to fix it because it's unfixable. It's kind of
Speaker 2: like it's like standing by a really beautiful, really old tree.
Speaker 2: It feels he's not old. He's actually much younger than me,
Speaker 2: but it's he's an old tree in my in my life. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's funny, that, isn't it, Particularly when I don't know
Speaker 2: about you. But I am such a doer. I want
Speaker 2: to fix stuff. I want to make you know, I'm
Speaker 2: a mom. I want to fix stuff for my kids.
Speaker 2: I want to I want to make it better. And
Speaker 2: you simply cannot make this better. You just have to
Speaker 2: stand and witness it with as much compassion as you can.
Speaker 1: I guess totally. And there's just no skipping steps. I mean,
Speaker 1: it is it's like a you know it is. It
Speaker 1: is something that you just have to let take you
Speaker 1: like a current, Like it's not it's not going to
Speaker 1: wait for you, and when you think you've conquered it,
Speaker 1: it's going to kick your ass in a totally new way.
Speaker 1: I feel like.
Speaker 2: It's so true, and that by the way, it is
Speaker 2: process like we are being forced or we are forced
Speaker 2: to process this. There's no getting around it. There's no
Speaker 2: jumping to the end of the alphabet. You have to
Speaker 2: go through every step, and that felt suffocating to begin
Speaker 2: with for me in the early days of grief, but
Speaker 2: now it's sort of more of a this is.
Speaker 3: What we do.
Speaker 2: We wake up every day and you meet your grief
Speaker 2: and you don't know how it's going to take you,
Speaker 2: but you go with the current of it. You allow
Speaker 2: that because fighting it is actually so much worse.
Speaker 1: Are you do you mind? If I ask her, are
Speaker 1: you having a lot of dreams?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: The strangest thing and that this is the part that
Speaker 2: I've actually apart from her not being here, the thing
Speaker 2: I've found hardest is that I have not dreamt. I've
Speaker 2: been I've dreamt my whole life, like vividly, like write
Speaker 2: them down dreams. I have not had a dream since
Speaker 2: she died. And it's been it's been devastating. It's been
Speaker 2: devastating to me that I haven't seen her in a dream.
Speaker 1: It'll happen. It'll happen when you're not at this place
Speaker 1: where you're like where are you?
Speaker 3: You know, That's exactly it.
Speaker 1: Because my aunt, I'm pretty sure, was like, are you
Speaker 1: dreaming about her? And I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm not, you know, like is that wrong?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I think it must have been because I was
Speaker 1: like searching for it. But I feel like they they'll
Speaker 1: come like when you aren't thinking about wanting them so badly,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: I wonder if they think it would make it worse,
Speaker 2: if they're like, it would actually make it so much
Speaker 2: worse if you do so. I don't want you to
Speaker 2: wake up thinking that you've been with me. You need
Speaker 2: to you need to have that little time path.
Speaker 1: You know. It was so frustrating because you see them
Speaker 1: and then it's like trying to call your way back
Speaker 1: to sleep and you can never do it. And it's
Speaker 1: a really interesting part though. I mean, it's so interesting
Speaker 1: because you think that all of these things are very
Speaker 1: unique to you, but every person that goes through it
Speaker 1: goes through the same thing. Even when I got married,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I did this weird thing. And
Speaker 1: I heard so many stories about people who put weddings
Speaker 1: together when their parents were sick. Because there's a natural
Speaker 1: you know, all human beings are kind of made up
Speaker 1: of the same.
Speaker 2: Stuff, exactly in the Venn diagram of our experiences, these
Speaker 2: you know, matter made visible. There is so much that
Speaker 2: is fundamental to all of us. We'll do the same
Speaker 2: things in the same situations. I kind of love that
Speaker 2: it feels tribal. Hmm, what is the quality that you
Speaker 2: least like about yourself.
Speaker 1: I'm incredibly impatient in everything, and I can forget to
Speaker 1: enjoy things sometimes.
Speaker 2: Because you want the result like you, so you don't
Speaker 2: pay attention to the journey of it as it were.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, that's my issue with art making. And sometimes
Speaker 1: it's the great thing. But I'm not one to dwell
Speaker 1: in the process, and I envy my husband's like that.
Speaker 1: He is all processing sometimes never gets anything done because
Speaker 1: he can learn something, can really take his time and
Speaker 1: have full understanding of something, whereas I often tend to
Speaker 1: skip steps and not in relish the process of things.
Speaker 1: But I also can be really impatient with people too,
Speaker 1: and I wish I wasn't like that.
Speaker 2: What triggers you about a person, like if they take
Speaker 2: too long telling a story or what is it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that's definitely yeah, yeah, yeah, there's that. And
Speaker 1: also if I think I'm quick to cut people out
Speaker 1: of my life or like snap to judgment in a
Speaker 1: way I don't suffer fools, Well.
Speaker 3: I know I'm exactly the same.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of it comes from my though,
Speaker 1: because my mom raised me in this way where sometimes
Speaker 1: my friends will confide in me about something, and you know,
Speaker 1: my natural desire is to fix it. But I think
Speaker 1: that when your friends confide in you, they're not asking
Speaker 1: you to fix something. They just want to let it go,
Speaker 1: you know, and they want someone to listen to them.
Speaker 1: I want, I mean, I really want to get better
Speaker 1: at like not being like, well, obviously you do this,
Speaker 1: and then when they don't do that, you get naturally
Speaker 1: kind of upset about it. And as I get older,
Speaker 1: I'm realizing like, they're going to do whatever they want
Speaker 1: to do. You can be you can offer some sound advice,
Speaker 1: but I think largely what your friend really wants you
Speaker 1: to do is just to be quiet and to listen
Speaker 1: and offer up support. And I think sometimes I get
Speaker 1: confused and I'm like, well, clearly this is like these
Speaker 1: are the steps you need to take. And then if
Speaker 1: they don't take them, because they're human and they have
Speaker 1: their own interests and desires, like I have gotten frustrated
Speaker 1: in the past, and that's like totally unfair and uh,
Speaker 1: something that I just need to work on.
Speaker 2: I think, well, we all have stuff to work on.
Speaker 2: But wait, so, because you write a lot about traditional
Speaker 2: Korean cooking, and it feels to me that there is
Speaker 2: an enormous amount of process in that, in the process
Speaker 2: of cooking, in the process of like shopping for the
Speaker 2: ingredients and.
Speaker 3: The whole thing.
Speaker 2: So is that an area where you're not focused on
Speaker 2: the result, you really are in the journey. Would you
Speaker 2: say that there's a lot of flow when you're making food.
Speaker 1: I do think so. I think it is like this
Speaker 1: really tactle intuitive thing where you don't I'm not after
Speaker 1: anything really when I'm doing I am like sort of
Speaker 1: in the process of that, and I enjoy it and
Speaker 1: I don't have to mentally like go after something in
Speaker 1: the same way that I go after it in other
Speaker 1: parts of my life. And I think that that's something
Speaker 1: that I've really enjoyed about cooking, is because I'm such
Speaker 1: analytical in my head person and there's none of that
Speaker 1: really when you're cooking. It's all you know, very You're
Speaker 1: very present and not thinking about the future really at all,
Speaker 1: and your mind kind of unbusies itself in this beautiful way.
Speaker 2: That's so interesting. So it's like that's a that is
Speaker 2: a meditation. I mean, that would be my description of
Speaker 2: meditation or the meditative quality of absolutely. Yeah, that's so funny.
Speaker 2: I think I read in something. I think it was
Speaker 2: in the New Yorker in the excerpt from your book,
Speaker 2: where you were like, somebody said, you just add enough
Speaker 2: something until it tastes like mom's.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, sesame oil, Are things enough?
Speaker 3: Samele? Did it taste that your mom's? That was excellent?
Speaker 3: Thank you?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's this meal that my mom would make for me
Speaker 1: every time I came home from college. She would marinate
Speaker 1: this short rib it's called Colby, this sweet Korean short
Speaker 1: rib with white rice, this white radish kimchi in this
Speaker 1: really tart brine with sesame oil and red piper flakes
Speaker 1: and then this radish kimchi just the way that my mom.
Speaker 1: It just is like a feeling, you know, it like
Speaker 1: sits like here.
Speaker 3: Do you ever make that meal? Now?
Speaker 1: Not often? Not often, because it doesn't taste as good
Speaker 1: when you make it for yourself. Part of it is
Speaker 1: that you don't have to do anything, and it's just
Speaker 1: this person has gone through this whole process of like
Speaker 1: marinating this thing two days before and buying all the
Speaker 1: ingredients like weeks before. You arrive and just knowing that
Speaker 1: there was so much thought that went into it. It
Speaker 1: doesn't taste as good or mean as much when you
Speaker 1: make it for yourself.
Speaker 2: It's so true. But okay, hold on, I've got a plan.
Speaker 2: So is your your is your husband? Is your husband
Speaker 2: a good cooke?
Speaker 1: No, he's adorable, he's hoorable.
Speaker 2: Okay, forget him. Do you have a friend who you love,
Speaker 2: who you could say, okay.
Speaker 1: Can you pick a day?
Speaker 3: Don't tell me what it's gonna be.
Speaker 2: And I'm going to teach you and teach them how
Speaker 2: to make it and then just have them, like on
Speaker 2: your birthday, surprise you with this meal. And I think
Speaker 2: that's a very good plan to see how I'm to
Speaker 2: see how I'm trying to fix your You're not a problem,
Speaker 2: Like you didn't have a problem.
Speaker 4: But I'm going to find a way to fix you're
Speaker 4: not a problem.
Speaker 2: Where and when were you happiest? It's so funny because
Speaker 2: it's such a childlike question to me, and when that
Speaker 2: could be really be quantified by an actual moment, because
Speaker 2: I know that happiness is like lots of different things
Speaker 2: as we grow up, but like, if there is a
Speaker 2: time that you can think of what would it be.
Speaker 1: The thing that comes to mind first, I guess is
Speaker 1: I think that when you're a child, there's just such
Speaker 1: like unadulterated feeling in this way that you never get back.
Speaker 1: I think I could certainly say moments with my husband
Speaker 1: or when I feel the greatest joy. But I grew
Speaker 1: up in Eugene, Oregon, which is a really beautiful place
Speaker 1: to grow up, and my friends and I used to
Speaker 1: visit this little hole in a fence where we would
Speaker 1: go through and have access to the Willamette River, and
Speaker 1: we would sort of jump off these rocks and let
Speaker 1: the current take us down maybe a quarter mile before
Speaker 1: frantically swimming to shore and then scrambling back up to
Speaker 1: do it again. And that is maybe one of my
Speaker 1: favorite memories of just riding my bike in the summertime
Speaker 1: and not worrying about much and being in nature and
Speaker 1: the beautiful Pacific Northwest.
Speaker 2: God, that's amazing. That's a good image climbing through a
Speaker 2: hole in a fence, jumping in a river and like
Speaker 2: letting the current take you.
Speaker 1: That's like childhood in general, you know.
Speaker 2: But it is when there wasn't the same risk assess
Speaker 2: month that certainly for me as a mother goes with
Speaker 2: everything to do with my kid. I think our parents
Speaker 2: were just so much freer with us. You know, I'd
Speaker 2: freak out if I saw my son doing there, but
Speaker 2: then I'd probably jump in and do it with him.
Speaker 1: I don't think my parents were too excited about it,
Speaker 1: but they frequently didn't know, I think, or they just
Speaker 1: gave up. There are certainly worse things that you can do,
Speaker 1: I guess as a kid.
Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely.
Speaker 2: But it's so funny how that taking that risk, that
Speaker 2: the risk assessment risk metric, which doesn't exist as a child,
Speaker 2: where you are just where you're free. You're free of
Speaker 2: second guessing, and so happiness is innate in a way
Speaker 2: because it's not clouded by worry or irritation or judgment
Speaker 2: or anything other than that present moment. I wish I
Speaker 2: could be a bit more like that now.
Speaker 3: Me too.
Speaker 1: I don't know when that changed for me, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that when my mom passed away, my relationship
Speaker 1: to death changed a lot, and similarly, my risk aversion
Speaker 1: and increased in this strange way, because I think once
Speaker 1: you're really close to how fragile life can be and
Speaker 1: how real death is in a way. I found myself
Speaker 1: really afraid in this new way. Like I used to love,
Speaker 1: you know, jumping off of high places into water, and
Speaker 1: now after that's happened, I don't know if it's necessarily
Speaker 1: because of that, or I also just got older and
Speaker 1: became more afraid. I don't know if I would do
Speaker 1: it anymore, or like even if I'm on a plane
Speaker 1: and there's turbulence, that's something that I never was worried about,
Speaker 1: and now I'm just certain I'm gonna die all the time.
Speaker 3: I'm certain I'm gonna die. Oh my god. It's so
Speaker 3: it's so funny because like it is certain that we're
Speaker 3: going to die.
Speaker 2: Yeah, say it like that, Like I'm certain we're going
Speaker 2: to die in this moment. Losing someone you love so much,
Speaker 2: it does. It makes you hang on to life life
Speaker 2: really tightly. But there must be a version of that
Speaker 2: where you can love life with looser hands.
Speaker 3: You know that.
Speaker 2: Actually it's like no, no, no, just just be here,
Speaker 2: just be here now and be in this life because yeah,
Speaker 2: it is over way quicker than it's. One thing my
Speaker 2: mom said it right as she was dying, was you know,
Speaker 2: even if I had another another ten years, she was
Speaker 2: eighty four. If I had another ten years, it still
Speaker 2: wouldn't have been enough. Like it goes by in an instant,
Speaker 2: it's so quick.
Speaker 3: Just love it. Maybe remembering the immediacy. It's so funny.
Speaker 2: I'm going to be thinking of that. If you crawling
Speaker 2: through a hole on the fence and jumping and moving
Speaker 2: water like it's so good, bike skidding and crawling through holes.
Speaker 2: I think that was pretty much my whole childhood as well.
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, I wish that there was more of that
Speaker 1: type of play incorporated into adult life, but I do
Speaker 1: think that that is fair. I mean, I think I
Speaker 1: lived my life. I'm just so aware of how limited
Speaker 1: my time is in a way that I've accomplished so
Speaker 1: much more in the past seven years because I think
Speaker 1: I have so much to say before it's over. I
Speaker 1: got married, I became successful as an artist for the
Speaker 1: first time, I developed this incredible career, and really great
Speaker 1: stuff happened also, you know, and it felt almost like
Speaker 1: she was looking out for me in this way, and
Speaker 1: I feel like it really lit a fire in me
Speaker 1: to make those things happen in a way that I
Speaker 1: didn't have before. And that is a more positive way
Speaker 1: of looking at this these things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean the rare gifts that come with
Speaker 2: things that are hard that we don't incorporate into the
Speaker 2: narrative often because we're too busy. We're too busy saying
Speaker 2: that they're hard. You know, there's you know that quote
Speaker 2: that Helen Keller. We only ever really say half of it,
Speaker 2: where one door closes, another one opens. But what she
Speaker 2: said was where and one door closes and another one opens.
Speaker 2: I'm paraphrasing, we're so busy looking at the door that closed,
Speaker 2: we forget to see the one that has opened. That's
Speaker 2: actually the whole thing that she said. And I feel like,
Speaker 2: since losing my mar I want to look at the
Speaker 2: door that is opened. I felt every second of that
Speaker 2: door closing, and I really just so firmly want to
Speaker 2: look at the opening and to be in this moment because,
Speaker 2: you know, to carry on, maybe to carry on the analogy.
Speaker 2: The door closes really, really fucking quickly. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: it has been such a pleasure. I'd say I'm sorry
Speaker 2: about crying at the beginning of warranty, but I'm actually
Speaker 2: not sorry that all. I'm so grateful to have connected
Speaker 2: with the art that you're making. It's brilliant and thanks
Speaker 2: for being here.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. You're so welcome.
Speaker 2: Michelle's new record, Jubilee, is out now and I strongly
Speaker 2: suggest that you have a listen and dive into the
Speaker 2: world that she creates and her book Crying in h
Speaker 2: Mark has just had the film right sport, so you
Speaker 2: should read the.
Speaker 3: Book before you see the movie. But I'm sure the
Speaker 3: movie will be awesome.
Speaker 2: Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me Mini Driver,
Speaker 2: supervising producer Aaron Kaufman, Producer Morgan Levoy, Research assistant Marissa Brown.
Speaker 2: Original music Sorry Baby by Mini Driver, Additional music by
Speaker 2: Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3: Executive produced by Me Mini Driver.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Jim Nicolay, Will Pearson, Addison, O'Day, Lisa
Speaker 2: Castella and Aniice Oppenheim, a WKPR, Dala Pescador, Kate Driver
Speaker 2: and Jason Weinberg, and for constantly solicited tech support, Henry Driver.