Speaker 1: A Zone Media.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the final episode of Better Offlines coverage of
Speaker 2: the Consumer Electronics Show. I love you all, all right,
Speaker 2: so we've made it everyone, we're on. The final day
Speaker 2: is Saturday, January eleventh. We have all we conferenced ourselves
Speaker 2: out a bit. We had a wonderful positive masculinity day,
Speaker 2: went out and got brunch, we went got massages. Tonight
Speaker 2: we're going to go get dinner. But we're here for
Speaker 2: kind of a kind of an epilogue episode because yesterday
Speaker 2: I thought was going to be less of a close,
Speaker 2: but it turned out to be a real finale. So
Speaker 2: really this is just about what we've learned at the CES.
Speaker 2: So Phil, what have you learned at the CS? What
Speaker 2: is it?
Speaker 3: It's an ergonomics thing.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: So we just got massages, and man, I feel so
Speaker 3: much better than I did five days standing on my
Speaker 3: feet on marble in my multi decade career of gambling
Speaker 3: in this fine city, and it's many beautiful slot machines
Speaker 3: that we've previously discussed. I've gotten a sample a lot
Speaker 3: of rooms, a lot of decor, and one of the
Speaker 3: things that I've picked up is the more high end
Speaker 3: your room is, the less carpet you get, so you
Speaker 3: get a lot of marble to stand on, which is
Speaker 3: awful on your feet. And I came back and I
Speaker 3: earlier today I went looking at the pit bosses and
Speaker 3: the dealers and realized they're standing on marble too. I
Speaker 3: cannot imagine trying to work an entire day standing on
Speaker 3: that outside.
Speaker 2: So what was the lesson you learn?
Speaker 3: Though, Auci, the richer you are, the more you're going
Speaker 3: to hurt for style.
Speaker 2: Hm hmm. Yeah. The problem is people keep thinking about
Speaker 2: rich and hurt a little too much at the moment,
Speaker 2: and I don't really want to fuel that conversation. So
Speaker 2: the thing is more comfortable shoes. I guess you need. Possibly, Yeah,
Speaker 2: we need to get you like a little kitchen pad.
Speaker 2: Actually that might I'm saying that facetiously when that actually
Speaker 2: might be the solution to the problem. Because Phil has
Speaker 2: been tending bar. If you're for some reason choosing the
Speaker 2: epilogue episode to start with, right, you're my kind of freak.
Speaker 2: By the way, I am joined by, of course, health
Speaker 2: physicist and bartender Phil BroadOn, who has been I think
Speaker 2: you've served well at least one hundred drinks this week.
Speaker 3: Oh well, based on the stacks of my cups well more,
Speaker 3: we're probably in the two hundred range.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you've seen most of the tech media. It's
Speaker 2: been lovely. Phil has been working his ass off and
Speaker 2: we're all very grateful. And most of the tech media
Speaker 2: is grateful. I say that as if some of them
Speaker 2: wouldn't be, And well, maybe.
Speaker 3: Like at eighty six from my bar, if they were.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I don't think that's the case. We've
Speaker 2: had like an unrelenting horde of very pleasant, lovely people.
Speaker 2: And talking of that, mister Edward and Grazo Junior joins
Speaker 2: us for our last day here. Hello, Hello, how you
Speaker 2: feeling ed fighting the itis? You got the itis?
Speaker 4: I mean, I have an unconscionable amount of food in
Speaker 4: my belly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we fed, we fed. Just to be clear, I
Speaker 2: fed the boys up being gorged and we're only doing
Speaker 2: more of it tonight.
Speaker 4: This morning and more. Yeah, you can do it. Did Yeah.
Speaker 4: I woke up with heartburn in a slightly collapsed look
Speaker 4: to inflate again.
Speaker 2: But other than that, you know, average better offline lessener,
Speaker 2: just one step closer to the end. I just want
Speaker 2: to be clear, by the way, I feel great. My
Speaker 2: Masseuse told me that my body is actually doing pretty
Speaker 2: well and that I need to keep doing yoga. So
Speaker 2: the answer here is that the more you speak on
Speaker 2: the mic, the better you feel, more powerful you become,
Speaker 2: the more power you accumulate over it over the course
Speaker 2: of this. But I think it's been a very It's
Speaker 2: been my favorite CS ever, and Phil at this point
Speaker 2: has been to eight with me. It's the eighth YEP.
Speaker 2: And I think what was really fun about it, other
Speaker 2: than the fact that I got to just do a
Speaker 2: weird radio show for like thirteen hours, is that it's
Speaker 2: given me a lot of hope about the tech media.
Speaker 2: And not that it was like blackpilled or anything, not
Speaker 2: that I was like, oh, this is all bad, but
Speaker 2: you talk to people, the people d Gadget. We have
Speaker 2: three people from n Gadget or that Max Journey from
Speaker 2: Reuter's and all of these people who are like so
Speaker 2: passionate and actually rave. They gave a shit, and they
Speaker 2: gave a shit, and they were strategic about how they
Speaker 2: gave a shit and the way they talked about it.
Speaker 2: And I think you listeners can kind of agree with me.
Speaker 2: It's it's really heartening to hear others talk about this
Speaker 2: because I feel like the byelines that some people arounder
Speaker 2: they kind of rob them with that passion.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The actually some of the best talks talks interviews for
Speaker 3: our reporters that came to visit to talk about the
Speaker 3: things where you I'm not going to say you crowbarred
Speaker 3: out of them for tell me the best thing you saw,
Speaker 3: the thing that made you happiest when you were on
Speaker 3: the floor. The thing they saw that invariably made all
Speaker 3: of them happiest seemed to be when they found a
Speaker 3: presenter on the floor with a booth who also gave
Speaker 3: a shit. Yeah, so it's not people do love tech.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: If you have come here and you hate what you're offering, uh,
Speaker 3: we're gonna notice.
Speaker 2: And we're going to talk about it and we will
Speaker 2: talk about it.
Speaker 3: But we love tech, yeah they if you're selling it,
Speaker 3: you need to love tech.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think it's easy to give into the kind
Speaker 2: of cynicism of the moment because the people run in
Speaker 2: the tech industry and no edge. You feel this strongly.
Speaker 2: It's like the people running it don't give a shit
Speaker 2: about tech. Mark suck Book doesn't give a shit about Facebook.
Speaker 2: He's talking about how oh yeah, we need more masculine energy,
Speaker 2: just mescalin, mask escaline. I'm sure masculine.
Speaker 4: Pushing mescaline down there.
Speaker 2: And it's just sad because it's this kind of repressed,
Speaker 2: toxic masculinity where it's about dominance, even though his platform
Speaker 2: only dominates by being a monopoly of sorts. It's just
Speaker 2: very sad, and I realize we've been very male weighted
Speaker 2: this week. It's like it's been positive masculine experience. We've
Speaker 2: had good friendships here, but also just people have all
Speaker 2: genders who have been here. I've had a great time
Speaker 2: because it's been about hanging out and actually talking about
Speaker 2: the stuff that intrigued or made you happy or made
Speaker 2: you very angry of course, and I think that it's
Speaker 2: cool that we got to encapsulate that. It feels like
Speaker 2: collecting years of cs into one.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So traditionally, everyone who's come to get a drink, I've
Speaker 3: always asked them, tell me the thing that scared you.
Speaker 3: Tell me the thing that you thought was dangerous to
Speaker 3: see if I needed to call the fire marshal or
Speaker 3: more likely, in the case of this show, drop a
Speaker 3: line to the FDA. But the thing that I had
Speaker 3: never asked, and I'm glad you were asking everyone on
Speaker 3: the podcast is what what made you excited? What made
Speaker 3: you happy? Because that's something I never did, and I
Speaker 3: realized that may have been not great energy I was
Speaker 3: bringing to the bar in past years.
Speaker 2: I think within the and as the real ED heads, No,
Speaker 2: the real Zitron Law people, they'll know. But the previous
Speaker 2: form of this was a p offen thing. Me. Look, Kevin,
Speaker 2: what we'd come out here, would have journals over, wouldn't
Speaker 2: do any pitch in, but we'd have them in and
Speaker 2: have a good laugh with this. It felt like we
Speaker 2: were actually building something cool and so Ed you had fun?
Speaker 4: Right, mm hmm?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Did you actually like finding? And it's okay if
Speaker 2: the answer is no, Did you actually find anything that
Speaker 2: gave you any hope? No, that's fun, I mean no,
Speaker 2: But talk to me about that, because there's nothing wrong
Speaker 2: with that. Answers just yeah, what was it?
Speaker 3: I mean?
Speaker 4: I think you know, I am not the market demographic
Speaker 4: for a lot of these things. I have little to
Speaker 4: no interest in filling my home with gizmos, gadgets or toys.
Speaker 4: I'm not really Also, as a result of that, in
Speaker 4: need of souping up the grid in my home, the
Speaker 4: appliances right, adding smart layers to them. I'm not too
Speaker 4: interested in healthcare management. I mean, most of the things
Speaker 4: that I like and I'm interested in there are things
Speaker 4: that like I can make myself hands on, don't really
Speaker 4: require the intervention of smart or algorithmic enabled.
Speaker 2: Wi Fi, various apps and such, you know, and so
Speaker 2: on that front, I'm not too interested.
Speaker 4: And then there's the other you know, there's a part
Speaker 4: of me that though, is very interested in tech just
Speaker 4: to see what is being developed and offered to other people,
Speaker 4: especially people who are in need of things, people who
Speaker 4: are disabled, people who are makers, people are inventors, right,
Speaker 4: they are just interested in creating something and offering it
Speaker 4: to other people.
Speaker 2: Cool.
Speaker 4: But you know, I think CS is also not the
Speaker 4: place for me to find hope, and that because of
Speaker 4: how much of the tech either it simply does not
Speaker 4: exist or is in a prototype form that, as I
Speaker 4: talk to more people, is synonymous with like perpetual delay
Speaker 4: and times not even like a not even a release
Speaker 4: or release in a pair of back form. So I
Speaker 4: feel like it's more so I come here. I didn't
Speaker 4: come here looking for magic. I am surprised by how
Speaker 4: much offered just did not connect with.
Speaker 2: Me, right because you weren't coming in here just as
Speaker 2: a po height. When we talked about this rich and
Speaker 2: that you were like, I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I literally didn't like you know. I was like,
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, is the ces. How much of
Speaker 4: CS is, like here's an actual product I can pick
Speaker 4: up try, and how much of it is like we
Speaker 4: are selling so that another business can notice and buy
Speaker 4: it from us, or an investor can back us. And
Speaker 4: so learning that the division and the amount in which
Speaker 4: any many of these tech products fell or the category
Speaker 4: in which many of these tech products fell was interesting.
Speaker 4: I mean the best part was for me just like
Speaker 4: conversations with people as a chance to both reflect on
Speaker 4: what we were being seen or what we were being
Speaker 4: shown and what we saw on the floor and one
Speaker 4: had been seen by other writers, and then also just
Speaker 4: talking about the tech industry and media coverage in general.
Speaker 4: I feel like that was the part that actually having
Speaker 4: analogously gave hope in the sense that it's affirming to
Speaker 4: hear other people, even if they are excited about things
Speaker 4: that I'm not talk about the limitations of the shortcomings
Speaker 4: of something that you know, when I was presented it
Speaker 4: as an object, felt like something that was like a
Speaker 4: staple in the industry that everyone loved and came to
Speaker 4: and understood, had its own integral role that was not
Speaker 4: to be two nice too much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's a weird show as well, I
Speaker 2: imagine for the first time, because it's like when you
Speaker 2: don't know this format, this place is kind of insane.
Speaker 2: Just to map this out for the listeners. So we're
Speaker 2: in the Venetians, so we have one of the best
Speaker 2: places to be as far as the regular show goes
Speaker 2: in that we have a hotel, the Venetian that has
Speaker 2: the connected Sans ex Post Center, which is now called
Speaker 2: the Venetian Expost Center. This is where a chunk of
Speaker 2: it is. Then to get to the LVCC, you have
Speaker 2: to either take an uber and then walk a mile.
Speaker 2: When your uber guy goes, I'm not dry, I'm not
Speaker 2: gonna wait, man, it's gonna be two hours. You then
Speaker 2: walk probably a quarter of a mile to a door
Speaker 2: and at that point you realize it's the wrong door,
Speaker 2: so you have to then walk another probably point one
Speaker 2: miles to the badge person who will then tell you
Speaker 2: now you make it's the other badge person inside. Then
Speaker 2: so at this point you spent like an hour and
Speaker 2: a half getting there, and now you can get your
Speaker 2: badge of other places. Perhaps you arrived with it. Well,
Speaker 2: now you can walk through like a what's probably about
Speaker 2: three miles of walking a day just minimum in the
Speaker 2: main hole just.
Speaker 3: To no, it's three miles walking just to get to it.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, okay, but I mean like just spending
Speaker 2: the day in there. And so after this you just
Speaker 2: see like either the largest television or the biggest lie,
Speaker 2: depending on the room you're in. And it's I imagine
Speaker 2: it's kind of strange for me.
Speaker 4: I think I'm just.
Speaker 2: Kind of numb to it at this point.
Speaker 3: Do you remember the advice that I gave you for
Speaker 3: you asked you've been You've done this before. I feel
Speaker 3: what should I go look for? And I haven't done
Speaker 3: this in a while, But just one of those when
Speaker 3: you see the hall of TVs unless you really want that,
Speaker 3: know that you've this is nothing but that keep moving
Speaker 3: through to look for something else. Because a giant TV
Speaker 3: is a giant TV. And we've talked about a human
Speaker 3: who exists only to wave behind the transparent one but
Speaker 3: the odd take us back to erconomics. The thing that
Speaker 3: Robert Evans said to me at the bar for the
Speaker 3: best thing about the TV pavilion was not the TVs
Speaker 3: with incredibly cushy floor so that he could actually rest.
Speaker 2: His feet from a pile carpet is pretty sweet. But
Speaker 2: just to give you an idea, if you have never
Speaker 2: done this before, a good.
Speaker 4: Chunk of it feels like being in a best Buy
Speaker 4: on Black Friday.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's actually it. But if no one's shopping, they're
Speaker 2: just loitering. Yes, yeah, and it's so weird as well.
Speaker 2: But I wouldn't have done it with anyone else. It's
Speaker 2: just interesting to see cees bounce off of someone, not
Speaker 2: because they're not trying, but because they've realized the edifice
Speaker 2: of cees, which is, hey, check out all the stuff
Speaker 2: we won't make.
Speaker 4: I would have driven a test off the bridge if
Speaker 4: I had to come here myself with.
Speaker 2: With like an outlet, yeah, you know, like a real person.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Especially because the mode of engagement to
Speaker 4: be much more different. I mean here had felt like
Speaker 4: I got the chance to kind of drift around each day.
Speaker 4: I felt like I was focusing on a different part
Speaker 4: of the floor based on what I did or didn't
Speaker 4: get to do, based on conversations I have with people,
Speaker 4: They're like, oh, I actually was really interested in this,
Speaker 4: and I think coming in with less preparation than an
Speaker 4: outlet might have had for me in the sense that
Speaker 4: like wasn't honed in and hunting for and prepping over
Speaker 4: how to how to think about and how to engage
Speaker 4: with like the fintech. It was more like I stumbled
Speaker 4: upon them. Oh, what a pleasant surprise. Oh they're talking
Speaker 4: about AI agents. Let's talk for a little bit.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: It was it felt like I got to experience it
Speaker 4: both as like maybe a consumer might and also a
Speaker 4: bit as in my capacity as someone who's wondering, Okay,
Speaker 4: if the presentation of this is for the consumer, then like,
Speaker 4: if you're walking around in it and you happen to
Speaker 4: know a bit about the industry or various products, what
Speaker 4: would you think about it if you're also if your
Speaker 4: if your intention is not just to like reported back
Speaker 4: to consumers so that they can get like a repackaged
Speaker 4: form of what's been presented here.
Speaker 3: This is one of the things I was really excited
Speaker 3: to hear yesterday from Cherylyn about the process that n
Speaker 3: Gadget does for how they prepare to go to the show,
Speaker 3: which right, it's fun with clean eyes to have none
Speaker 3: of that just to encounter it face first, smack into
Speaker 3: the wall. But that process from any gadget very cool.
Speaker 3: Y I had no idea, and I'm happy I heard it,
Speaker 3: and I'm happy that.
Speaker 2: The listeners had it as well, because gone back to
Speaker 2: the black pill thing, like, it's very easy to get
Speaker 2: cynical about the tech media, and I have been extremely
Speaker 2: critical of the tech media, but then you look at
Speaker 2: the people we've brought in. We had Kyushanod from Las
Speaker 2: Vegas some for example, such a delightful surprise, that guy,
Speaker 2: young guy. But also getting into the labor stuff, the
Speaker 2: fact you've got someone who writes about tech because they're
Speaker 2: not because they're a tech report. But then you look
Speaker 2: at and Gadget, a place that people myself, it was
Speaker 2: just a gadget blog, and they actually really tried, and
Speaker 2: it's interesting to see them. There's so much personality in
Speaker 2: the tech media that just we had no I really
Speaker 2: I knew some of these people, but I didn't know
Speaker 2: how bad they cook. A lot of them, like all
Speaker 2: of we didn't have one bum guest.
Speaker 3: Also in terms of the eight years we've done this
Speaker 3: from my point of view, in terms of providing respite
Speaker 3: two journalists journalists, and indeed it's sketching, had journalists getting
Speaker 3: respite in the suite for a chance to breathe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3: For the first time in all these years, I had
Speaker 3: had people one saying I'm so happy to be back.
Speaker 3: I'm so happy to get another drink for you. The
Speaker 3: five years of COVID, I've missed you. And also Gere just.
Speaker 2: Relaxed and get I just want to say I can get.
Speaker 2: Evis is just insanely talented. I am so happy we
Speaker 2: got them on so many episodes.
Speaker 3: I saw geras fairly high energy you might have noticed
Speaker 3: from some podcast, But I watched Garrett just sort of
Speaker 3: take a breath and slump into a chair for a moment.
Speaker 2: They could be off and I think that's nice, and
Speaker 2: I think of better Offline is such a bizarre podcast.
Speaker 2: Looking at Mattasowski's like, yeah it is. My producer heard
Speaker 2: one from Mattasowski. It's funny. This show started off as
Speaker 2: a joke and then it became something. You know, It
Speaker 2: started off as a thing where I was talking about
Speaker 2: how pissed off I was about wet brothers like the
Speaker 2: winkle Uses or the rot economy and everything. But as
Speaker 2: we get to see, well, well, well if it isn't
Speaker 2: the winkle Us brothers, but it's it's interesting how it's
Speaker 2: growing because I've been thinking about CEOs quite literally for
Speaker 2: a year. So Robert Gare and I were sitting around
Speaker 2: at Spego where we were actually going tonight taking my
Speaker 2: boys out. Got to treat them. That's the one thing, like,
Speaker 2: I'm lucky enough to have this podcast. I've been treating them,
Speaker 2: treating everyone. It's lovely. But in all seriousness, I was
Speaker 2: sitting there with ROBERM and Get and just kind of
Speaker 2: like slightly worried both about the podcast. But I got
Speaker 2: that done. We don't need to belabor that. I really
Speaker 2: should stop repeating that. In fact, anyway, I sat there
Speaker 2: and like, shit, how am I gonna do? Cees? And
Speaker 2: I spent the year in phil and I have talked
Speaker 2: about this many many many times, and the thing that
Speaker 2: I think that we needed to do, which I think
Speaker 2: we mostly did, was not just be like, hey, here's
Speaker 2: all the shit that you see at the show. Your
Speaker 2: hogs but it also try and capture, even though people
Speaker 2: kind of hate it, try and capture the fact that
Speaker 2: there is a week long thing in the tech media
Speaker 2: where everyone comes to one place kind of parties together.
Speaker 2: Then does journalism ostensibly, but like there's this whole thing
Speaker 2: that's been virtually uncovered. It's just this is like Aspen
Speaker 2: for tech media, except you. Really, I don't think as
Speaker 2: many dark thoughts when I think of it, and it's
Speaker 2: and I think we successfully got that. And listeners, I
Speaker 2: would love to hear you feedback. You've been quite generous
Speaker 2: with it so far. Nineteen nine percent of it loved it,
Speaker 2: one percent Calm down. But it's in I think we
Speaker 2: have successfully captured phil what we have always captured here,
Speaker 2: which is, hey, here's just one fucking place you can
Speaker 2: sit down and like try and like process the things
Speaker 2: you have been hit with over the last week.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Also, I just remembered it as I took
Speaker 3: a sip of black Ludden Energy courses through me Again.
Speaker 3: I want to take a moment to give special thanks
Speaker 3: to someone who almost never gets thanked, that has made
Speaker 3: sure that this suitet worked.
Speaker 2: Mothers give it up.
Speaker 3: Thanks mom, But also twenty eighth floor housekeeping staff at
Speaker 3: the Venetia and Venetian. Big up, particularly Alice. Alice, you
Speaker 3: have made sure that I've been able to keep the
Speaker 3: filthy pig style that I keep making of the place
Speaker 3: and people walking through look nice. I could not have
Speaker 3: done this without you, Alice.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 4: Alice is that who wrote the note?
Speaker 2: No, that was okay. There was a note in here
Speaker 2: that said their old dead head run and that would
Speaker 2: be Robert Evans the the like like the tricks to
Speaker 2: God that I work for, mister Mixey is the world? Yeah,
Speaker 2: actually yes, Robert has missed the world exactly like a
Speaker 2: Crisp and Glover figure that shows up to be like
Speaker 2: podcast time.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: Alice is the one who gave me the extra ice bucket.
Speaker 3: Alice gave the welcome note to this room.
Speaker 4: Okay, because it said because I noticed it, it said Alice.
Speaker 3: That's because I wrote her name down, okay, to make
Speaker 3: sure I did not forget right.
Speaker 2: Please don't kill me, Alice. But in all seriousness, now
Speaker 2: the Venetian's been lovely. It's been so weird as well,
Speaker 2: just like standing up this thing. I don't know if
Speaker 2: everyone listening to this is like, look at my Instagram
Speaker 2: or my Blue Sky. I hope you have I need attention,
Speaker 2: but also I want you to know how great this
Speaker 2: setup has been. We've had this recessed area in the
Speaker 2: Venetian and honestly, it's just been extremely heartening for two reasons.
Speaker 2: One having some solidarity in this fucking tech media. It
Speaker 2: has been such a rough year for so many people.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenty four was an insane year. But also right
Speaker 2: now the tech media feels and I say this having
Speaker 2: done a thing where I yelled at them, but Lord almighty,
Speaker 2: I've never seen less solidarity, but I kind of saw
Speaker 2: it this week. Everyone seemed happy to see each other
Speaker 2: when they got on the mic together. They were generous
Speaker 2: with their time. They were excited to vibe off of
Speaker 2: each other. There was no like vacuous competitiveness or anything
Speaker 2: like that. Everyone was so giving with their time, not
Speaker 2: just with me, but with each other. They were shooting
Speaker 2: the shit. They were happy to see each other. It
Speaker 2: was great, And I think that this is a time
Speaker 2: where as things get a bit rough with big tech
Speaker 2: and within society, this is the time to pull together.
Speaker 2: And I'm happy that whatever this week has been, which
Speaker 2: is insane, by the way, just the entire idea. I
Speaker 2: hope that that has created that, and I hope that
Speaker 2: you the listener have heard that. And I was about
Speaker 2: to say, you appreciate that, I don't believe. I mean,
Speaker 2: I hope you've got that vibe.
Speaker 3: So you you talked about the vibe people together here,
Speaker 3: talking and happy. So effectively, I'm with the bar, I'm
Speaker 3: running the green room for what you're getting to hear
Speaker 3: over here. When people leave here and the next crew
Speaker 3: rotates in for your listening pleasure, the old crew does
Speaker 3: not immediately bolt for the door. They actually sat down
Speaker 3: with each other and they enjoyed each other's time.
Speaker 2: I did notice that, And it's cool when we like
Speaker 2: cycle out people like ed like you go back to
Speaker 2: have a chat with them, and I realized, like, you've
Speaker 2: been like somewhat unimpressed with the actual stuff, but you
Speaker 2: seem to have had a good time with everyone.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I had a great time with everyone. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I had a great time with the people.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that it's it's about the people,
Speaker 2: but it kind of is like I'm here to see
Speaker 2: the dude AD's gizmos and the apps. No, it's to
Speaker 2: pull together the tech media to have a conversation with
Speaker 2: people and try and actually talk about what happens here,
Speaker 2: because as of what was kind of getting earlier, this
Speaker 2: place like Vegas is a fascinating place in and of itself,
Speaker 2: so we see us even if the stuff is kind
Speaker 2: of the same as last year, even capturing that mood
Speaker 2: is kind of important and bringing you fresh was I'm
Speaker 2: really happy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, I'm really happy you brought me in. I mean,
Speaker 4: this was definitely an imprint experience. It's definitely left its
Speaker 4: mark on me.
Speaker 3: Would you have even dreamed, coming into the getting on
Speaker 3: a plane coming to Las Vegas that you were about
Speaker 3: to meet the cryt readers for two of your favorite authors.
Speaker 4: No, a lot of crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was.
Speaker 4: That was such a wild turn of events for listener
Speaker 4: who don't know they are. Father Gabriel and Phil are
Speaker 4: krit readers for Christopher Rock Casino and Charles Strauss, who
Speaker 4: are two of my you know, favorite writers right now.
Speaker 4: Charstrusta sci fi Christopher Rock Casino does is doing like
Speaker 4: a science fantasy series Sun Eater, which you should definitely
Speaker 4: check out if you are interested in romans in space. Yea,
Speaker 4: but yeah, space romans that are in the deconstruction of
Speaker 4: Dune and Star Wars, and also without like the turgent
Speaker 4: pros of Foundation and the Foundation series.
Speaker 3: These are the happy surprises that happened when you just
Speaker 3: sit down start talking.
Speaker 2: There was a great moment where Robert Evans and Father
Speaker 2: Gabriel and Edim graz So Junior was sitting around for
Speaker 2: like twenty straight minutes and they were having the They
Speaker 2: were like, yoh, but hegel and they were like, no,
Speaker 2: naming all these philosophers. And I was just sitting there
Speaker 2: and I think I understand what Babo my cat feels
Speaker 2: like when I can talk to it, because I was
Speaker 2: just looking at it, just like wow, I know these names,
Speaker 2: but they're connecting them in ways that clearly involve knowledge.
Speaker 2: And then after twenty minutes, I just said, fuck, is
Speaker 2: this what is like? What's it like being smart? Anyway,
Speaker 2: that's the experience I bring to the sweep. But honestly,
Speaker 2: it's been kind of fun watching everyone just talk. I
Speaker 2: want this to be and I want you the listener,
Speaker 2: to be pulled into this and to kind of feel
Speaker 2: this because putting aside the very obvious and well documented
Speaker 2: side of CS of that it's full of shit that
Speaker 2: never goes anywhere, and everyone's kind of annoyed. The taking
Speaker 2: full of people. It's also full of people sorry for
Speaker 2: you were there. No no, no, I'm yeah. Ed is
Speaker 2: a well drank and well fed as we all are.
Speaker 2: But also we have had five straight days of just
Speaker 2: like our brains being punished.
Speaker 3: No really, I think this might be a massage recovery
Speaker 3: as all the tensions holding me together, they removed it.
Speaker 3: And I'm feeling real.
Speaker 4: Good being my stomach for five hours and I was
Speaker 4: rubbing into thought you.
Speaker 2: Were just accumulating wealth.
Speaker 4: I ran to this like the Buddha booth. I mean
Speaker 4: I ran to the sweet last night because I was
Speaker 4: gonna because.
Speaker 3: No, there was a crisis. It had to be addressed.
Speaker 2: Moving on, we're talking about how nice the solidary where no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: there was solidarity there.
Speaker 4: No, I will not.
Speaker 2: I was just about to do a whole thing about
Speaker 2: how like We've had a bunch of guys in the suite,
Speaker 2: and I think for the most part we've done good
Speaker 2: positive masculinity without talking too much about our bowel movements.
Speaker 2: I've got in his way talk beginning and then the
Speaker 2: beginning with the vulnerable. I'm glad that we've got rotors
Speaker 2: quotation on the Horny check like, but also I'm tired
Speaker 2: of people on the Reddit asking to well for one,
Speaker 2: but I think for the most part, we've I hope
Speaker 2: we've shown like a bunch of guys hanging out have
Speaker 2: don't don't have to be like nasty assholes. Just we've
Speaker 2: not been tearing each other down. And I want this
Speaker 2: because this industry is very male dominated, and something we
Speaker 2: do want to do better next year is I want
Speaker 2: more woman in this more diverse voice is like this thing.
Speaker 2: And I know some of you have brought this up,
Speaker 2: and it's a fair criticism we had. We really only
Speaker 2: had like three woman on there, and it's not enough.
Speaker 2: And so we're going to do a much better job
Speaker 2: next year. And we've already like making plans for this
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six. We are going to improve this show
Speaker 2: on that level. But also I think we are going
Speaker 2: to try and in as much as we can sync
Speaker 2: up on coverage with these outlets and actually bring them in.
Speaker 2: Because the big thing is is like better Offline's pretty big.
Speaker 2: Now I can't even say how big because I am
Speaker 2: told not to, but it's big. We have a real
Speaker 2: audience now. And the thing I think we can do
Speaker 2: with this show is, first of all, show you, the
Speaker 2: wonderful listener, what's going on in the tech industry. And
Speaker 2: what's going on in the tech industry is not just
Speaker 2: the thing you see on the page. Even people have
Speaker 2: criticized those people behind the byline are held by these
Speaker 2: restraints of editorial bullshit. But on top of that, there's
Speaker 2: only so much do If you're like writing about laptop,
Speaker 2: how much we know about that person. So I want
Speaker 2: this show to be that now. And when it comes
Speaker 2: to things like CES, I don't know where else they go.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to.
Speaker 4: South By, No, yeah you will. You gotta do it.
Speaker 4: You gotta see how Crypto's taking it over.
Speaker 2: Don't want to That sounds awful, It is awful. My
Speaker 2: friends aren't there. It's the people.
Speaker 4: Wholly white will go.
Speaker 2: Maybe Molly White's great, but I would rather just like
Speaker 2: fly to Boston or whatever. Yeah, but nevertheless, this show
Speaker 2: is important to the tech industry. Yeah, and yet it's
Speaker 2: completely uncovered what actually happens here. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff about this robot does this, and this vacuum has
Speaker 2: an arm now, but not the actual vibe, not the
Speaker 2: actual feel, and it's interesting to finally capture that and
Speaker 2: put it in a bottle. Yeah.
Speaker 4: No, that's interesting because when I was trying to look
Speaker 4: over covered to get a sense of what to expect,
Speaker 4: it really was just people talking about past products and
Speaker 4: not like actual morale, energy, enthusiasm, lack thereof impact too.
Speaker 3: Larger society and programs.
Speaker 2: As well, But even then, the tech industry and the
Speaker 2: tech media, it's full of these weird, wonderful people we've
Speaker 2: had all week. And I feel like, and if you
Speaker 2: the listener disagree with this, please let me know, but
Speaker 2: it feels like people have responded really well to just
Speaker 2: hearing the people behind these bylines and actually talking about this,
Speaker 2: and that.
Speaker 3: Those people got a chance to expand on what they
Speaker 3: saw and what they felt in a way maybe they
Speaker 3: even constrained from doing for a while, and not.
Speaker 2: Even for malevolent reasons. It's just that, Yeah, if you
Speaker 2: are writing a gadget blog and you write about gadgets,
Speaker 2: there's not really much space for editorializing someone. We didn't
Speaker 2: get on with. Michael Fisher, one of my favorite YouTubers,
Speaker 2: and he has done a really good job of expanding
Speaker 2: his YouTube I sound one hundred years long. He's got
Speaker 2: one of those YouTube channels with the videos now Utebliss.
Speaker 2: One of the light boxes captures his form. But he
Speaker 2: was here. Sadly missed him going to see him for dinner.
Speaker 2: I think next week. Nevertheless, he has done a really
Speaker 2: good thing of explaining kind of the effema around his travel,
Speaker 2: how like travel weighs upon him, how there are emotional
Speaker 2: contexts to places he goes, the societal parts. He did
Speaker 2: a great thing where he was in India talking about
Speaker 2: the smog, for example. You can do more with this medium,
Speaker 2: and I think that there's so much more interesting things
Speaker 2: that we could do even with this show, because let's
Speaker 2: be honest, you've got I don't actually know how many
Speaker 2: actual reporters are here because the list includes every single
Speaker 2: possible person who could ever mention words. But I would
Speaker 2: say there's at least one hundred members of the tech
Speaker 2: media here, like died in the Wall, actual tech media.
Speaker 2: And the fact is there isn't a damn place where
Speaker 2: other than like Twitter and Blue Sky, whether actually you're
Speaker 2: actually able to get to know these people. I want
Speaker 2: better offline to be that on some level it's not
Speaker 2: just going to be that it's not just the kind
Speaker 2: of mix of stuff, but I think it's a helpful
Speaker 2: function of what the show could be in the future.
Speaker 3: So something I've while I don't go to the floor
Speaker 3: because I'm attending something that I do get to do
Speaker 3: at Defcon and at Photonics West is watching for governmental
Speaker 3: entities that are actually attending the show as well. And
Speaker 3: it's a tradition at Defcon to play the game spot
Speaker 3: the Nark, which is if you can find the member
Speaker 3: of a given government agency and they've started playing with
Speaker 3: it and actually having official booths and saying, can you
Speaker 3: guess which agency.
Speaker 2: I work for?
Speaker 3: If you do, they'll give you a challenge coin or
Speaker 3: a pin. But conversely, the deaf Con people will give
Speaker 3: them a shirt for the narc Right to wear. But
Speaker 3: our governmental agencies, our regulators are actually just like me,
Speaker 3: interested in what's coming that I should be prepared for.
Speaker 3: I like finding them and seeing what are you looking for?
Speaker 3: If I could find on one willing to represent the agency.
Speaker 2: That we talk to the FEDS inside here, though we
Speaker 2: don't let them in here. I mean I will not
Speaker 2: allow we're not having the government agencies in here. I
Speaker 2: will not You can talk to them outside. But if
Speaker 2: you if you remember, if the Feds, please don't come
Speaker 2: to my show. I don't think that's going to be fun. Now,
Speaker 2: if they turn up, I'm gonna have a word with
Speaker 2: them and then say please don't, please, don't keep me well.
Speaker 3: Actually, the hard part is the ones that are actually
Speaker 3: doing the things that are of interest. They can't talk.
Speaker 3: They're constrained by a public affairs office.
Speaker 2: Perfect, wonderful. Then they have no reason to be here then,
Speaker 2: but but.
Speaker 3: Their their interest is actually the public interest.
Speaker 2: I should listen to the show. Then they do.
Speaker 3: Well and are generally happy.
Speaker 2: Okay, I hope they are, because at least the ones
Speaker 2: I talked to, I really don't want to get a
Speaker 2: put in the goo lag, but putting aside the FBI's
Speaker 2: clearly active interest than me, that's a great phrase to
Speaker 2: say out loud. I do want this place to be
Speaker 2: without the feeds, an actual place where journalists come. And
Speaker 2: I know that there are some people who've reached out
Speaker 2: to me and they've said they weren't able to make
Speaker 2: it as such, We're going to remove We're going to
Speaker 2: move stuff around next year. I want to make sure
Speaker 2: there's more room for people, and mister Anguezo Junior sounds
Speaker 2: like he will come back.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would love to.
Speaker 2: Mister Roth will as well. I will be here and
Speaker 2: Phil is stuck with me. But I think that the
Speaker 2: thing I want to do differently as well is I
Speaker 2: want to really plan out the groups because and I
Speaker 2: must be honest to the listeners how much of this
Speaker 2: came together in real time. But also I think you'll
Speaker 2: indulge me because what an insane thing I did here
Speaker 2: like this has been very crazy and I cannot believe that.
Speaker 2: I cannot believe how well it worked, and it's thanks
Speaker 2: to you guys, And of course i'll produce in Matasowski
Speaker 2: who built this whole setup. But it's interesting because something
Speaker 2: like this could actually be useful for people to understand
Speaker 2: the mechanism power within tech, because I want people to
Speaker 2: realize how much of it's bullshit. Sure, but how You've
Speaker 2: got journalists coming out here who are actually trying to
Speaker 2: find a way to cover it within the boundaries of journalism,
Speaker 2: which can be quite difficult because most people can't come
Speaker 2: on here and say, yeah, most of the shit I
Speaker 2: saw was bullshit and that was broken and this is
Speaker 2: shit not necessarily because of the byline, but also how
Speaker 2: do you write that story? How do you actually put
Speaker 2: that together? How do you actually say CS was full
Speaker 2: of dog shit?
Speaker 3: And please read the rest of my words after this.
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you the way you don't do that.
Speaker 2: Being sponsored by Delta Airlines, I will I will voice
Speaker 2: my displeasure about mister Nilla, mister Nilla Pattel.
Speaker 3: He is a dirty, dirty man.
Speaker 2: Some management questions aside, Nill had a chance to do
Speaker 2: something interesting at CES and somehow I did the more
Speaker 2: interesting thing, which is disappointing. But also if you're being
Speaker 2: if you bother SEO of Delta Vacations, who what are
Speaker 2: you doing? Like? Or sorry, you're interviewing them to what end?
Speaker 2: To what point? And I feel like the people covering
Speaker 2: this show have got such a shit deal. But the
Speaker 2: ones with the largest microphones other than my own don't
Speaker 2: seem to be.
Speaker 3: Full disclosure as a Platinum medallion member for Delta Man.
Speaker 3: Those are the emails the delete the fastest.
Speaker 2: It's just frustrating because people at the Verge. And I'm
Speaker 2: not attacking the writers because Victoria's song was amazing on
Speaker 2: this it feels like the people covering this show. Some
Speaker 2: of them have potentially given up a little. The Verge
Speaker 2: should not have a live show where the summation of
Speaker 2: it starts with a fucking interview with the CEO of
Speaker 2: the worst part of the Delta experience.
Speaker 3: The Mini CEO.
Speaker 2: And I saw people covering the Delta stuff just blandly,
Speaker 2: and it's.
Speaker 4: Like, did you check out the interview? What was the
Speaker 4: interview itself?
Speaker 2: I have not listened to the Verge cast in some time.
Speaker 3: Well, I think, how you can cover that excitedly?
Speaker 2: I think that No, actually, let me check my notes.
Speaker 2: I did listen. It was let's see, it was James Tayklett,
Speaker 2: the CEO of Lockheed Martin and who said that I
Speaker 2: love the Verge. It's my favorite publication. And then they
Speaker 2: were surprisingly joined by Handword chairman Sung and Kim, who said,
Speaker 2: how the Verge is the best place to find out
Speaker 2: about bombs. That is all the joke. I apologize, but nevertheless,
Speaker 2: it's I've had that written down for a week. It's
Speaker 2: just frustrating because it's like Leapatel, he can fucking do
Speaker 2: a better job, And honestly, they could be better things
Speaker 2: done at CES. The thing we've proven in the last week.
Speaker 2: Not trying to put myself on the back or anything,
Speaker 2: but I don't even need to say that. The people
Speaker 2: who have come on have been really interesting, and I
Speaker 2: think there's more that we can do. I don't even
Speaker 2: know what whether to call myself part of the tech
Speaker 2: me You're on a fucking pr film during the day,
Speaker 2: write a newsletter where I regularly make typos that really
Speaker 2: shouldn't be there. I just I don't know, man. But nevertheless,
Speaker 2: it's like, there is more to be done, and there's
Speaker 2: more to be done in the next year. And I
Speaker 2: think the way everyone needs to go right now is
Speaker 2: this move towards the question we've been asking a week,
Speaker 2: which is why does this have to exist? Who is
Speaker 2: it for? Why is why? And I think ed your
Speaker 2: frustration with this place is that question is so often
Speaker 2: not answerable somehow, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, deeply so. I feel like or it is a
Speaker 4: constructed individual that's not necessarily real as the tech industry is.
Speaker 2: Like so far, Yeah, they're solving for an imaginary or
Speaker 2: are that.
Speaker 3: Search for an investor? The product is them?
Speaker 4: I mean, I think you know, the the tech industry
Speaker 4: has got and better in the years of constructing the
Speaker 4: constructing the image that there is the person that wants
Speaker 4: what they are offering. I mean, I think the most
Speaker 4: recent example of this that was pretty bloigant was the
Speaker 4: construction of the crypto voter, as facilitated by fair Shake,
Speaker 4: and they're pretty massive lobbying campaign to punish any candidate
Speaker 4: that seemed remotely anti crypto, to resounding success. I think,
Speaker 4: like almost like a ninety plus percent hit rate for
Speaker 4: winning races where they put up ads against or against
Speaker 4: anti crypto or obstensibly anti crypto or insufficiently pro crypto candidates.
Speaker 3: And that latter one is the really dirty one. You
Speaker 3: don't love us enough, kiss the.
Speaker 2: Boot in the imaginary customer, and.
Speaker 4: The imaginary customer there's this is the idea of a
Speaker 4: crypto voter. Someone who is motivated by a desire to
Speaker 4: have a safe home for their crypto assets. They wanted
Speaker 4: bank with, they wanted in a bank that they would
Speaker 4: typically use. They want their dollars to be more easily
Speaker 4: transferable between or to these things. They want to have
Speaker 4: more assets that can be you know, that they can
Speaker 4: trade in their dollars or their tokens for right. And
Speaker 4: I think similarly, sometimes when I see, you know, I
Speaker 4: think about, like especially the Global Pavilion for Crypto right
Speaker 4: where it's like these people are sitting here talking about
Speaker 4: how you know, for your brand, one way to increase
Speaker 4: its authenticity has objectified, the company said, is to offer
Speaker 4: a limited edition goods that will add an air of
Speaker 4: rarity to your brand.
Speaker 1: Yah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're all tokens right and you know these The
Speaker 4: idea here is also when you listen to them closely,
Speaker 4: they're not saying like they're not actually saying there's any
Speaker 4: use value. What they're saying is that we realized we
Speaker 4: have a use case for justifying our service, which is
Speaker 4: that you can make it more your thing, more exclusive
Speaker 4: in partnership with us if you cut us a fee
Speaker 4: and you generate a useless token. I feel like there
Speaker 4: is a lot of this where, you know, solution in
Speaker 4: search of a problem, or a business in search of
Speaker 4: an opportunity to cut to extract a.
Speaker 2: Fee rather than solving a need.
Speaker 3: Someone once asked me if I was willing to do
Speaker 3: limited n F n FT coded release labels on Black
Speaker 3: Blood of the Earth bottles so that they could have
Speaker 3: someone could have their very own NFT run of Black Blood,
Speaker 3: and that would be an email I would delete it.
Speaker 2: I would I would take such pleasure from watching you
Speaker 2: enter the blockchain.
Speaker 3: That was the point they wanted black block, black blockchain, coffee.
Speaker 2: Block, Blood of the Earth.
Speaker 3: I hate you.
Speaker 2: So slightly different, slightly different direction. Do you actually like
Speaker 2: any technology? I don't mean this in like anything. You
Speaker 2: seem to enjoy your phone and such, like you enjoy
Speaker 2: connecting with people.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I like, I like my phone, computers, screens.
Speaker 4: But most things I'm just like, I'm not really a
Speaker 4: cool Yeah, trains are cool. I mean if we're talking about,
Speaker 4: for example, non digitally mediated, I mean, of course we're
Speaker 4: talking about digitally mediated. I really have to be because
Speaker 4: I'm not interested in like productivity hacks or saving time
Speaker 4: person Yeah, you know, for me, like it's like the
Speaker 4: things I'm interested in software and programs you know that
Speaker 4: have helped me. I'm interested sometimes in you know, I
Speaker 4: have a friend who I you know, I have a
Speaker 4: friend who I learned coding with the you know what
Speaker 4: was in there like maybe ten years ago. What in like, Well,
Speaker 4: I don't talk about it because I don't like, uh
Speaker 4: doing it, because I don't really care for much and
Speaker 4: because of the reason I don't talk about it is
Speaker 4: because it's always fun when I have when a tech
Speaker 4: and gets a little mad at me, and I was like,
Speaker 4: why is this guy who doesn't even code? And I'm like,
Speaker 4: what about me makes you think? I can't tell me?
Speaker 4: That's cool though, So, you know, especially with the more
Speaker 4: the more recent wave of tools of generative tools for
Speaker 4: coding supplements, I mean, you know, I've kind of been
Speaker 4: inspired by like writing from like Brian Eno and you
Speaker 4: have getny more is off to try and create like
Speaker 4: small applications that help us learn other languages because I've
Speaker 4: been trying to learn Mandarin for a long time, right,
Speaker 4: you know, And so stuff like this is fun and interesting,
Speaker 4: like little trinkets, little little you know, short desktop apps
Speaker 4: or you know, all small little programs that helped me
Speaker 4: in my daily life. But I do I'm not really
Speaker 4: interested in like some overhaul.
Speaker 2: It feels like what you're describing is the purest form
Speaker 2: of technology, which is why do we use the computer
Speaker 2: to connect with people or connect with ourselves a bit
Speaker 2: more to actually true love what we want to do
Speaker 2: more to enhance ourselves. Because the reason I'm asking these
Speaker 2: questions is because there are some fucking idiots I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna skip to that part. Who would just be like, well,
Speaker 2: it's just a hater. Yeah, and I've got the same
Speaker 2: thing as an heir to his hatter m Otherwise, can
Speaker 2: I say a terrifying that he might finish his point
Speaker 2: and then we'll get to you. Don't worry I am
Speaker 2: a hater in that.
Speaker 4: I think that a lot of times.
Speaker 2: The greatest hate is love. Yeah, right, please continue.
Speaker 4: When someone is talking to me or trying to convince
Speaker 4: me to integrate some algorithm or digital program into my life,
Speaker 4: what they're usually talking about is a way to like
Speaker 4: offload some of the cognitive burden and not actually cut
Speaker 4: through a stupid task or to not come up for example,
Speaker 4: like you know, me and my friend we've you know,
Speaker 4: you've getting more is an inspiration for this what he
Speaker 4: talks about in one of his essays about how he
Speaker 4: uses generitive tools to try to create a group of
Speaker 4: language programs so that he'll try to talk in another
Speaker 4: language or answer questions another language, and then based on
Speaker 4: the weaknesses, it will generate kind of questions and exams
Speaker 4: and stories that will test what he has shown a
Speaker 4: deficiency in.
Speaker 2: You know, there's like elements of how one structure is
Speaker 2: a sentence.
Speaker 4: Maybe, yeah, grammar, sentence structure, ambiguities of descriptive language. I mean,
Speaker 4: and this is stuff that interest us more than the
Speaker 4: way in which we typically have been trying to learn
Speaker 4: the languages, especially you know, because I'm doing I'm trying
Speaker 4: to do Swahilia as well, so Swahili and Mandarin, and
Speaker 4: he's doing Spanish and Pastrin, and so it's like there
Speaker 4: are a lot of the apps that are offered in
Speaker 4: a lot of the programs, a lot of the methods,
Speaker 4: or we simply either don't have the time to do them,
Speaker 4: or the the gamification that's presented is bullshit.
Speaker 2: Will do a lingo style, you know.
Speaker 4: So I'm if you can figure out a way to
Speaker 4: do it that is more closer resembling how a human
Speaker 4: human interaction does it without trying to convince me that
Speaker 4: I need to offload onto some sort of platform and
Speaker 4: or some ecosystem. Sure, I mean, I'm interested, right, but
Speaker 4: most of the time you have to make you have
Speaker 4: to make the case, and it has to be a
Speaker 4: convincing case for why an algorithm needs to be introduced
Speaker 4: into something that I'm interested in using. And I think
Speaker 4: that most of times, if you actually spend time talking
Speaker 4: with the people about it and interrogating it, it doesn't
Speaker 4: past the sniff test.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: This is where the solving the language problem and the
Speaker 3: human interaction level. This is where I have to say
Speaker 3: the terrifying words. I love Uber mm hmmm, because it
Speaker 3: did one thing that they are not proud of, that
Speaker 3: they do not tout as a thing they can do.
Speaker 3: In general, Uber is tals and to regulated right environments.
Speaker 3: It destroys taxi networks, never mind adoption of tech technology
Speaker 3: that taxi should have done to approof service. Uber obliterates
Speaker 3: that good ecosystem. However, in unregulated markets or ones that
Speaker 3: are highly corrupt and barter based where I don't know,
Speaker 3: such as such as Ukraine and most of Eastern Europe.
Speaker 2: Now your experience with this was pre war, though right.
Speaker 3: It was pre war in Kiev. I do not speak Ukrainian,
Speaker 3: although my feeble language skills of I speak English. I
Speaker 3: have technical Spanish, I can have commerce Spanish, but don't
Speaker 3: ask me to talk about poetry and art.
Speaker 2: If you make two Spanishes, I call back to another anyway.
Speaker 3: But when I got done playing in the Great Patriotic
Speaker 3: War Museum, and it was snowing, the first snow of
Speaker 3: the season in Kiev, and I did not feel like
Speaker 3: doing my normal thing of walking all the way across
Speaker 3: the city just to enjoy and absorb the city and
Speaker 3: on international data rates. I downloaded Uber on the principle
Speaker 3: of I just want to get back to my hotel.
Speaker 3: Uber was able to, within its app allow me to
Speaker 3: arrange a ride negotiate. Well, I didn't even negotiate set price.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then negotiating for you.
Speaker 3: It negotiated for me for a set price that is firm,
Speaker 3: and get my destination correct with a driver. Neither of
Speaker 3: us spoke each other's language, and it was seamless. That
Speaker 3: is a thing they never tout, they are not proud of,
Speaker 3: but they do everywhere in the world, and with time,
Speaker 3: I did that in twenty sixteen. Their language translation on
Speaker 3: either end of their app has only gotten better.
Speaker 2: But the problem is that you're completely right, except for
Speaker 2: the fact that Uber also had a bigger opportunity they
Speaker 2: didn't do, which was if they'd have grown sustainably and
Speaker 2: set real labor rates and demanded benefits, Uber could probably
Speaker 2: be a fifteen trillion dollar company.
Speaker 3: Oh you mean, actually be profitable.
Speaker 2: No, I mean beyond that. If uber had slowly grown
Speaker 2: and done it more than minimum wage and use their
Speaker 2: scale to actually commit themselves to getting real benefits rates
Speaker 2: for employees and grown like that, they could have actually
Speaker 2: grown to be probably the largest employer in the world
Speaker 2: and actually given people benefits. So they chose the other.
Speaker 2: And what sucks is that the reason they did what
Speaker 2: you just described, which is genuinely good, is so that
Speaker 2: they could find new people that spoke other languages to
Speaker 2: extract from.
Speaker 3: That was the first time I called an uber of
Speaker 3: my own.
Speaker 2: I remember, and it sucks that they didn't do it
Speaker 2: to make sure that you could do the thing you did.
Speaker 3: It was just like we had to get that extracion.
Speaker 3: Fuck it makes me mad with the sign of the
Speaker 3: simultaneous You made a human experience I couldn't have otherwise had.
Speaker 2: But is this not CS A lot of ideas that
Speaker 2: are made up that could could be for ostensibly good reasons,
Speaker 2: But I've really done for the investor, for the theoretical customer.
Speaker 2: Everything we've describing that's good here is about actually connecting
Speaker 2: the smart cane as glib as I might have been
Speaker 2: about it. People genuinely will find good in that I'm
Speaker 2: excited about.
Speaker 4: The medical devices. These are all good. And I mean,
Speaker 4: and we've also you know, we've talked before about huh.
Speaker 4: There are lots of algorithmic things I have nothing to
Speaker 4: do with the consumer that are helpful, you know, that
Speaker 4: are on the back end of helping test things or
Speaker 4: discover or do trials for various compounds. Right, as long
Speaker 4: as you don't put you know, I'm very skeptical of
Speaker 4: the generative tools that are being deployed for this, but
Speaker 4: you know, more traditionally, when they're done for this, this,
Speaker 4: you know, is something that's interesting. I mean, there's a
Speaker 4: host of applications that we wanted to sit down, we
Speaker 4: could talk about. But you know, for me, the thing
Speaker 4: I don't hate, I mean, the thing I don't like
Speaker 4: and the stuff I just like kind of informs my
Speaker 4: my antipathy towards it. My ludism is like, you know,
Speaker 4: usually when we have a venture capital firm, a private firm,
Speaker 4: or well capitalize individual, hedge fund, whatever pushing a certain
Speaker 4: type of technology innovation, it's because they're interested in prioritizing
Speaker 4: the startup form, which itself already closes a lot of
Speaker 4: doors because you have to adopt a certain product, you
Speaker 4: have to adopt a certain value structure so that you
Speaker 4: can pay the software tax or the you know, the
Speaker 4: cloud tax, or you have to you have to figure
Speaker 4: out a way that you're going to you know, organize
Speaker 4: labor so that you can have contractors and employees and
Speaker 4: all of these limitations. There's more energy being spent on
Speaker 4: or the barriers to maximizing potential valuation and profitability in
Speaker 4: market share instead of the actual technological innovation itself.
Speaker 2: So we are at the end, I'm afraid, And yesterday
Speaker 2: you got my kind of teary goodbye to everyone, and
Speaker 2: to give you an idea of what the room was
Speaker 2: like yesterday, it was full of people and everyone was
Speaker 2: yelling and it was very fun. That's where you got
Speaker 2: the yes chef from. We have had an insanely cool
Speaker 2: crew of people, of course led by mattis Houski, our
Speaker 2: producer here, but we've really gone through a lot of
Speaker 2: the tech media and the thing I'll say for next
Speaker 2: year is I'm going to have more of them. We
Speaker 2: had twenty guests on this damn show, including the people
Speaker 2: in front of me as well.
Speaker 3: I have more liquor to serve.
Speaker 2: Indeed he does, and it's fun. It's also it seems
Speaker 2: like the listeners. I want this to be an active
Speaker 2: conversation with you. You're on the redditch, you email me.
Speaker 2: I love it. Please get in touch on Blue Sky,
Speaker 2: you get in touch on Threads. I am not listening
Speaker 2: like I just want to be clear, like I look
Speaker 2: down on you, Instagram, DMS, Absolutely, Threads not so much
Speaker 2: why I'm a hypogram. Anyway, this has been an amazing
Speaker 2: show and I want to hear from you. But next
Speaker 2: year we're going to be a bit more structured, but
Speaker 2: also it's probably going to be the same format. We're
Speaker 2: going to have what diverse voices, and we're also going
Speaker 2: to get into more definitive subjects. I think the one
Speaker 2: thing I could have done, but there are a few
Speaker 2: things I could have done better. One thing I could
Speaker 2: have is subject matter and having the subject matter experts.
Speaker 2: We have people like Max Cherney and Da Vinda Hardware
Speaker 2: who really knew their chips, for example, we can wrangle
Speaker 2: that coverage far more specifically. But also there was something
Speaker 2: fun about having the Slop of the Week just kind
Speaker 2: of wash over us because I wanted all of you
Speaker 2: listening do kind of get an idea of how obtuse
Speaker 2: a conference is. And I know some of you go
Speaker 2: to a weird conference is and such and thus you
Speaker 2: have this experience. But Phil, thank you for being up bartender,
Speaker 2: thank you for serving everyone. I'm I really treasure your
Speaker 2: hard work. And let's do nine next year.
Speaker 3: Hell Yeah's something I'm very proud of that I started
Speaker 3: trying to kick in the sixth and seventh time we
Speaker 3: did this was making sure I had non alcoholic options
Speaker 3: available for people. I had more than ever available this year,
Speaker 3: and I'm glad I got to give it to people.
Speaker 2: Who yeah, because this is not a place where you
Speaker 2: have to drink.
Speaker 3: Because most people who don't drink can't drink.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: They usually feel very asked out when they go to
Speaker 3: events at conventions like this, and I want people to
Speaker 3: feel welcome.
Speaker 2: And you are here, like, I don't care if you
Speaker 2: don't have any substances. Maybe you don't even have food.
Speaker 3: You don't need even gas station mushrooms.
Speaker 2: Want to say thank you Robert for the gas station
Speaker 2: mushrooms you bought. And I didn't take them because I
Speaker 2: don't just eat food.
Speaker 3: Off the floor or gas stations.
Speaker 4: I mean, but it was that I introduce you to
Speaker 4: some of my friends. Yeah, I drug of freakins. We
Speaker 4: would call some of them.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's that's a new term. That is a series
Speaker 2: of words that I will be unpacking for some time.
Speaker 3: But a pleasure. It's real fun.
Speaker 2: And this is kind of the I was about to say,
Speaker 2: the end of the rope. It's quite the opposite, the
Speaker 2: beginning of something cool, because Phil and I have been
Speaker 2: doing this for so long and some of you have
Speaker 2: got in touch and like asked, it's this was a
Speaker 2: sweet where we brought our friends in from the tech media,
Speaker 2: and now it's turned into something really cool that I
Speaker 2: look to grow and turn into something weird and fun
Speaker 2: every year. If you're a remember of the tech media
Speaker 2: who was not on here listening to this, get in touch.
Speaker 2: If you're in New York, for example, we will be
Speaker 2: doing what you heard this week very regularly. Every other week.
Speaker 2: I would say, get in touch. Maybe it's not the
Speaker 2: next episode, but I want a chunk of the tech
Speaker 2: media on there. I want I want this. The tech
Speaker 2: media is full of such insanely fun and weird and
Speaker 2: wonderful voices, tons of people so good on the mic
Speaker 2: that you wouldn't know. I want to help with that.
Speaker 2: I want this to be something Phil.
Speaker 3: And if you're coming to the Bay Area for some reason,
Speaker 3: I'm always happy to give the Phil Broughton Tour where
Speaker 3: I point at Manhattan Project things that aren't there anymore.
Speaker 4: Oh you're on the bay.
Speaker 2: Yeah wow, wait died how many hours and we just
Speaker 2: didn't reveal that?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well yeah, I live in the Bay Area
Speaker 3: and I work at a university that is somewhere in
Speaker 3: the Bay Area.
Speaker 4: I'll be I'll be there twenty eight to thirty first. Also,
Speaker 4: if you're in the Bay Area twenty to thirty first,
Speaker 4: you should come to my co host Jathan Sadowski's book
Speaker 4: launch at City Lights.
Speaker 2: Jathan Sadowski, of course, the inventor of the Habsburg AI term.
Speaker 4: Yes, I got the air appand of the Absburg embardy
Speaker 4: yell at him and say this is a stereotype.
Speaker 2: A man. I am so jealous of that that happened.
Speaker 2: I am so upset that I've not had like AI
Speaker 2: and and AI very nice. Those are my two favorite kinds.
Speaker 2: Right but also ed on Gwaiso Junior, thank you so
Speaker 2: much you have battled through this week for your first
Speaker 2: ces in. I would say the conditions have been chaotic,
Speaker 2: but I made it. He made it.
Speaker 4: My stomach made it.
Speaker 2: He cooked. But also you're going to see in the
Speaker 2: next year exactly how much mister Gwayso Junior does. He
Speaker 2: is incredible and we've been so lucky to have him.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I got to meet one of my favorite writers.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 3: I've been enjoying your work for so long.
Speaker 4: I really appreciate that.
Speaker 3: It's been awesome.
Speaker 2: And I will say this as I say every time
Speaker 2: when I meet you. Man, I also got to have
Speaker 2: drinks some of my favorite writers. Thank you so much
Speaker 2: for your time. It's been a genuine pleasure, I imagine
Speaker 2: for the listeners, but selfishly for me mean too.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't have done it with anyone else. Guys.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, and this is the thing, like this has
Speaker 2: been very guy way too. But also I want all
Speaker 2: the fellows to listen to remember that you can love
Speaker 2: your male friends and talk about how fucking rockin they
Speaker 2: are and how much they've supported you all week. You
Speaker 2: don't have to be so fucking self conscious. You fucking
Speaker 2: cowards compliment each other. Also, Ed is like the best
Speaker 2: dressed man I've ever fucking every fucking day. I'm just
Speaker 2: swearing too much. Ed looks just amazing. I look pretty
Speaker 2: good too. Don't say it jealous of a suit. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he actually has like the most wonderful I wish I
Speaker 2: was this cool, but nevertheless, we've had an incredible crew
Speaker 2: of people. I want to start by thanking Jared Newman
Speaker 2: the Freelancer, Henry Casey of CNN underscored Ednie Demeyer of
Speaker 2: the Autono Cast, Father, Gabriel Mosher of course of the Church,
Speaker 2: Jesse Ferra and Michael Hale of your Kickstarter Sucks, Tom
Speaker 2: McKay of It Brew, of course, David Roth of Defecta,
Speaker 2: Matt Binder of Mashable, Max Journey of Reuters, Gara Davis,
Speaker 2: and Robert Evans of course if it could happen here,
Speaker 2: Phil Broughton, who's sitting across from me, of what I've
Speaker 2: just written as miscellaneous, Devendra Hardowa, Carissa Bell and of
Speaker 2: course shirln Lowe of ng Gadget Victorious Song of the Verge,
Speaker 2: Kyl Shnard of the Las Vegas Sun, and of course
Speaker 2: Mattasowski are incredible. God damn producer, you have been an
Speaker 2: absolute legend this entire time. We couldn't have done it
Speaker 2: without you, but we also could not have done it
Speaker 2: without iHeartRadio, Sophie Lichtermann and of course Ian Johnson, who
Speaker 2: has been He is literally dealing with the wildfires at
Speaker 2: the moment, and he is we like, we didn't hear
Speaker 2: from it. It's like, oh crap, shit, And actually I
Speaker 2: want to do a shout out to Miles Gray of
Speaker 2: the Daily Zeitguy's the iHeart Radio show. He literally lost everything.
Speaker 2: I'll be dropping a link in there. Don't feel obligated to,
Speaker 2: like many people going through many things, but if you
Speaker 2: can donate, please do and thank you for me. This
Speaker 2: has been a very personal podcast, a little too personal,
Speaker 2: and I have no idea if it's good or bad.
Speaker 2: I really don't know. You seem to be happy, but nevertheless,
Speaker 2: this is you've all kind of witnessed my own personal
Speaker 2: journey with technology and technology has been part of my
Speaker 2: love since I was ten. I think and you've all
Speaker 2: been wonderful, and I think you like this and I
Speaker 2: like doing this. I love doing this. We will be
Speaker 2: back in a year, and I'll get to that in
Speaker 2: a second. We'll also be back next week. We're going
Speaker 2: to have better offline radio in New York. I get
Speaker 2: on a plane to New York on Sunday. It's going
Speaker 2: to be a complete nightmare, but no exciting. It's an adventure,
Speaker 2: it is, and I just love cooking. I could probably
Speaker 2: do another hour of podcasting, but you're thinking, please, please,
Speaker 2: no more, no more. So we've had too much. But
Speaker 2: in all seriousness, we're going to be back immediately with
Speaker 2: Paris Martineau and of course Jeff Jarvis of twit and
Speaker 2: their various associations. But we are going to be back
Speaker 2: in a year. And I've learned so many ways to
Speaker 2: do this. But the biggest lesson I've learned, and that's right,
Speaker 2: it's friendship, is that everyone came together to support this show.
Speaker 2: Every single goddamn person who walked into this suite walked
Speaker 2: in here in ten I'm actually discussing what happened, and
Speaker 2: everyone was so fucking wonderful. And I think now, of
Speaker 2: all times, it's really easy to be kind of cynical
Speaker 2: and definitely pessimistic about the tech industry and say that
Speaker 2: there's nothing to redeem it really and everything is growth
Speaker 2: of all costs. But I think that's reductive. I think
Speaker 2: it's something where you can look at the most powerful
Speaker 2: people and the things being talked about and lose the magic,
Speaker 2: which is as fucked up as the algorithms are making
Speaker 2: things as detached as we might be from whatever social networks.
Speaker 2: This week has proven, at the very least, that there
Speaker 2: are human beings that truly love the computer and love
Speaker 2: the things that they can do with it and the
Speaker 2: people it connects with. I hope I've given you something
Speaker 2: in this week, and that's proof of solidarity with your
Speaker 2: fellow human being and seeing that within this extremely boring,
Speaker 2: arduous show, at times where most people are lying to
Speaker 2: you or thinking about ways they could put you in
Speaker 2: a position to lie to you more egregiously, there are
Speaker 2: people coming in here who are slightly excited or very
Speaker 2: excited about a smaller laptop because they're able to use
Speaker 2: the computer in a different place, so they're able to
Speaker 2: do more with their lives. And as Ed said, the
Speaker 2: algorithms he used it he could potentially use for more
Speaker 2: accurate linguistics, he could learn more about a language. There
Speaker 2: are many wonderful things that technology can do. And I've
Speaker 2: been quite emotional, and I think you like it, and
Speaker 2: I fucking love him, but I'm emotional because I'm surrounded
Speaker 2: by people who really give a shit. Emotional because every
Speaker 2: single person that's come through this door, that people running,
Speaker 2: even the people visiting, have shown that there's not a
Speaker 2: single half asser in them. There's not a person that
Speaker 2: I've spoken to who has not deeply and meaningfully cared
Speaker 2: about something in technology. And there's nothing wrong with you
Speaker 2: if you truly love what technology has done for you.
Speaker 2: Nothing about this podcast is about trying to fracture you
Speaker 2: from the things that you love about it. If you're
Speaker 2: pissed off, I'm with you about the way it's being done.
Speaker 2: But what I hope I've shown you in the last
Speaker 2: week is that there are people that care as much
Speaker 2: as you do, if not more, people that love it
Speaker 2: as much as you do, and people who share your
Speaker 2: frustration with the way things have gone. We will be
Speaker 2: back next week, and we will be back in twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six for the Consumer Electronics Show. If you listen
Speaker 2: this long, I do love you all, and I'm so
Speaker 2: grateful for you listening to Better Offline. Thank you for
Speaker 2: listening to Better Offline. The editor and composer of the
Speaker 2: Better Offline theme song is Matasowski. You can check out
Speaker 2: more of his music and audio projects at Mattasowski dot
Speaker 2: com m.
Speaker 1: A T T O.
Speaker 2: S O w Ski dot com. You can email me
Speaker 2: at easy at Better offline dot com or visit better
Speaker 2: offline dot com to find more podcast links and of
Speaker 2: course my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to
Speaker 2: chat dot where's youreaed dot at to visit the discord,
Speaker 2: and go to our slash Better Offline to check out
Speaker 2: our reddit. Thank you so much much for listening.
Speaker 1: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media. For
Speaker 1: more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com,
Speaker 1: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.