Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2: Tenacity is a talent because I never felt like I
Speaker 2: was super talented at anything, because I never had one
Speaker 2: skill that I can lean on. I couldn't sing, didn't
Speaker 2: have a great voice, wasn't super funny. I started to
Speaker 2: realize that being tenacious and not stopping being tenacious, that's
Speaker 2: a real talent.
Speaker 3: I am Bob Pittman, and welcome to this episode of
Speaker 3: Math and Magic. Today we're exploring the power of audio
Speaker 3: and the power of those hosts on the radio and
Speaker 3: podcasts who hundreds of millions of Americans call their friends.
Speaker 3: Our guest today is Bobby Bones, known the millions and
Speaker 3: millions for his morning show on country radio, and also
Speaker 3: for his stints as a mentor on American Idol, host
Speaker 3: of Breaking Bobby Bones on the National Geographic Channel, and
Speaker 3: a past winner of Dancing with the Stars. He's also
Speaker 3: authored two New York Times bestsellers, and it has the
Speaker 3: wildly successful podcast Bobby Cast and the Nashville Podcast Network.
Speaker 3: Bobby was born and raised in small town Arkansas, Mountain Pine,
Speaker 3: in what he has described as extreme poverty. He literally
Speaker 3: had no bed for himself until he finally got to college.
Speaker 3: He has had a life of driving to make his
Speaker 3: life a success. He's going to share some of those
Speaker 3: stories and insights and more.
Speaker 4: Bobby, welcome, Thank you for having me, Bob. This is awesome.
Speaker 3: Listen before we get into the meaty stuff, I want
Speaker 3: to do you in sixty seconds.
Speaker 4: You ready this? There? Do you prefer cats or dogs? Dogs?
Speaker 4: Early Riser night Out? I'm an Early Riser, but I
Speaker 4: hate it.
Speaker 3: Nashville or la oh, Nashville by far, City or Country.
Speaker 2: I'm going to surprise you and go city on this
Speaker 2: Coker PEPSI. I'm going to go coke, rock and roll
Speaker 2: er country. What's the difference? You know, they're basically the same.
Speaker 4: But I'll go Country, Coffee or tea. I'll go tea.
Speaker 4: As long as it's.
Speaker 3: Podcast or streaming TV out podcast by far, call her, text,
Speaker 3: don't call me, just text. All time favorite musical artist
Speaker 3: Counting Crows. First job doing maintenance on a golf course.
Speaker 3: Favorite TV show of all time, The Office, childhood hero
Speaker 3: David Letterman. Favored sport to watch college football, Arkansas Razorbacks.
Speaker 4: Most important piece of advice you ever got, just keep
Speaker 4: pushing regardless. Favorite city Oh you'll give me in trouble here.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go Fabel.
Speaker 3: Arkansas Final one secret talent.
Speaker 4: I can juggle really well. I can do turns and
Speaker 4: throws and it's awesome.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's jump in. Country music is on a real
Speaker 3: up swing in America, comes up and down sometimes. It is,
Speaker 3: by the way, the biggest music format on the radio.
Speaker 4: What's going on? Why?
Speaker 2: I think because one the music sonically has opened itself
Speaker 2: up a bit. And the one thing about country music
Speaker 2: is it's always progressing. And the other thing is there's
Speaker 2: always a group going that's not country. And so as
Speaker 2: long as country music has existed, you've had people saying, well,
Speaker 2: that's not real country. I think you've had a couple
Speaker 2: transcendent artists as well. So it doesn't hurt when you
Speaker 2: have big stars. And so guys like Morgan Waller and
Speaker 2: Luke Combs and Zach Bryan and then the guys like
Speaker 2: Chesney and Garth the Stadio Max are really ruling country music.
Speaker 4: And the fact that some of them are so young
Speaker 4: makes it cool.
Speaker 3: You know, you're talking about people saying that's not country.
Speaker 3: But the history of country music, country radio especially is
Speaker 3: the oldies always seem to be from rock in the seventies.
Speaker 3: The oldies were not Hank Williams. The old ones were
Speaker 3: Elvis Presley, the Eagles or whatever. Why does over the
Speaker 3: years country music attract the former rock and roll audience?
Speaker 3: What makes them switch and how does that work?
Speaker 2: I think the format itself is very traditional in nature. However,
Speaker 2: I think the format also at times will attempt to
Speaker 2: hold itself back, if not for real pioneer type artists.
Speaker 2: I mean, when you look at country music just in general,
Speaker 2: from the beginning of the format itself, at the genre
Speaker 2: you're talking about, the music was created by slaves coming
Speaker 2: over on the slave ship and Europeans coming over, and
Speaker 2: that's where you get the banjo on the fiddle. And
Speaker 2: the fact to where they live geographically is the roots.
Speaker 4: Of country music.
Speaker 2: And so when people will hear a song and go, well,
Speaker 2: that's not country, you know, my response often is, well,
Speaker 2: nothing is unless you go back to the very beginning.
Speaker 2: You can look at any of the artists like Bob
Speaker 2: Wills and the Texas Playboys. The first time they amp
Speaker 2: to steal guitar, it was like Dylan going electric, Like
Speaker 2: people flipped out, and that has happened over and over again.
Speaker 2: Garth Brooks doing concerts, touring like a rock star. You
Speaker 2: have people put in eight to eights in songs now,
Speaker 2: and I think what's happening is when you're young, you
Speaker 2: like the edgy music, and then what happens is that
Speaker 2: edgy type music isn't so edgy anymore, and what was
Speaker 2: the rock back in the time really has settled into
Speaker 2: what is now country music ten fifteen, twenty years later.
Speaker 3: So let's talk a little bit about the country music community.
Speaker 3: You touched on it, about who these people are, how
Speaker 3: are they different from other audiences.
Speaker 2: They are far more loyal to the artist than any
Speaker 2: other format.
Speaker 4: Country music.
Speaker 2: From before I got in it until today, there were
Speaker 2: artists that I love and it did not matter what
Speaker 2: they put out.
Speaker 4: I loved it.
Speaker 2: When I worked in pop, you could have a song
Speaker 2: and go away forever. That almost never happens in country
Speaker 2: music even today. So once you establish who you are
Speaker 2: and you build a fan base, they don't go anywhere.
Speaker 2: And I think that's really like a lot of people
Speaker 2: in this country like, if you can actually prove your
Speaker 2: worth and there's a reason to like you, and you're
Speaker 2: not going to really change fundamentally who you are, like,
Speaker 2: we're gonna.
Speaker 4: Roll with you.
Speaker 2: We're real loyalists to folks, and I think that's what
Speaker 2: this format is really known for, and I think it's
Speaker 2: why it thrives.
Speaker 3: You know, you started in top forty pop hits and
Speaker 3: you moved the country radio.
Speaker 4: Why.
Speaker 2: I think I wanted to talk to the most people.
Speaker 2: That's the selfish answer. But when it comes to where
Speaker 2: did I even fit, Like how I sound, I mean,
Speaker 2: I talk like a guy from and I want to
Speaker 2: say Middle America, probably a little south of Middle America.
Speaker 2: Like I talked like a guy from Southeast America. And
Speaker 2: so when I was doing pop, I had Willie Nelson
Speaker 2: on and Derek spentleyon and I had all these country acts.
Speaker 2: And what was funny was the word on the street
Speaker 2: then was he's too country for pop. But then once
Speaker 2: I got the country, it was he's too pop for country.
Speaker 2: So I kind of never really had a place to
Speaker 2: fit in. But that's exactly how and why I fit,
Speaker 2: because nobody really fits anywhere. And the fact that I
Speaker 2: just embraced that, like, yeah, I don't fit into one
Speaker 2: specific hole. I think that is what endeared me to listeners.
Speaker 4: I hope. I hope it still does.
Speaker 2: But that's why I'm here now, because I talk to
Speaker 2: people that grew up like me, have sensibilities like me,
Speaker 2: and have loyalties like me.
Speaker 3: So how has Nashville managed to hang on to its
Speaker 3: dominance in the country scene.
Speaker 2: And invests a lot of money? I mean, it is
Speaker 2: a industry. It's billions and billions of dollars, and you
Speaker 2: know where it's an art and it's fun and it
Speaker 2: makes you happy and sad. It is also a cutthroat business.
Speaker 2: It just reminds me of sports, right, Like I have
Speaker 2: my favorite teams and I love them. But behind the
Speaker 2: guys playing on the field for nine innings getting dirty,
Speaker 2: that there are people making really difficult decisions, and there
Speaker 2: are people that are paid a lot to judge and
Speaker 2: gauge talent and scout talent. I think Nashville is really
Speaker 2: prioritized one investing in technology and also investing in really
Speaker 2: great people to live here and cultivate the music. And
Speaker 2: you often see a lot of the producers from Los Angeles,
Speaker 2: a lot of the songwriters from Los Angeles. They're in
Speaker 2: Nashville a lot because they want to write with Nashville
Speaker 2: songwriters so I think it's really just the investment of
Speaker 2: the people and the technology and both are doing the
Speaker 2: job of letting the strongest survive.
Speaker 3: So you're also a musician performer on the stage. You've
Speaker 3: got the Ragie Idiots. Tell us about your history as
Speaker 3: a performer and where that fits into what you do.
Speaker 2: The Raging Idiots are a comedy duo. It's how we started,
Speaker 2: and we were just raising money for charity. Honestly, I
Speaker 2: was just looking for ways to tour around, do some
Speaker 2: funny songs and make a little bit of money to
Speaker 2: donate to dog shelters and Saint Jude, which.
Speaker 4: Is a hospital for kids.
Speaker 2: And I was in the hospital a bunch as a kid,
Speaker 2: and I know that if people didn't help me, like
Speaker 2: my church and the community, that I don't think I
Speaker 2: would have been able to actually get the care that
Speaker 2: I got because we didn't have a whole lot of money.
Speaker 2: So Saint Jude they don't have people pay that you
Speaker 2: show up there. If you have the kind of cancer,
Speaker 2: they take care of you.
Speaker 4: So that was it. That's why we started at.
Speaker 2: Me and my buddy Eddie, and we tore our and
Speaker 2: honestly we were just okay. But The great thing is
Speaker 2: if you're okay and you work hard enough, you get
Speaker 2: to be pretty good. And that's what we did. From
Speaker 2: pretty good, we got to a little better than pretty good,
Speaker 2: and our shows got bigger and we were playing theaters.
Speaker 2: We've been able to raise millions of dollars for the hospital.
Speaker 2: But it really just started off as two guys playing
Speaker 2: in like a barbecue restaurant. So it's a comedy band,
Speaker 2: but we've been able to do a lot of really
Speaker 2: serious stuff with them.
Speaker 3: You're big on social too. How does that tie together
Speaker 3: all you do? Is it sort of like the listen
Speaker 3: line used to be at the radio station? How does
Speaker 3: it keep you tuned into your audience in real time?
Speaker 2: It's where they are, and I want to be where
Speaker 2: the people are. I want to be where the people are.
Speaker 4: It sounds like.
Speaker 2: I'm a little mermaid or something, but you know, it's
Speaker 2: where the people are. It's where I can talk to
Speaker 2: them twenty four hours a day. The great thing about
Speaker 2: the radio show is like I'm their friend. If they're
Speaker 2: driving in, I'm their companion. Hopefully they trust that I'm
Speaker 2: going to give them something compelling to listen to. If
Speaker 2: it's happier set if it's funny or not, that I'm
Speaker 2: their buddy that's going to be with them.
Speaker 4: Same with podcasts.
Speaker 2: The thing about social media is I can be on
Speaker 2: it constantly, over and over and over again, saying different things,
Speaker 2: but also directing them to the longer form media.
Speaker 4: Right it's in the end.
Speaker 2: It is a wonderful promotional tool for what I feel
Speaker 2: I do best, which is mid and long form audio.
Speaker 3: You know, I want to go back in time a
Speaker 3: little bit, get a little context on you, especially for
Speaker 3: people who really know you and you're interested in how
Speaker 3: you got to be Bobby Balenes, you have an amazing,
Speaker 3: tough yet inspiring personal story. Teenage mom who had some
Speaker 3: abuse issues for her whole life. Your grandmother's stepped down
Speaker 3: as an important figure in your life, and it seems
Speaker 3: that poverty dominated your early life. Can you share that story.
Speaker 2: I was born to a mom who got pregnant at fifteen.
Speaker 2: She had me right after her sixteenth birthday. And having
Speaker 2: a mom that got pregnant at fifteen, it was very
Speaker 2: difficult for her because she also didn't come from money.
Speaker 2: So she's again in a situation where she didn't have advantage.
Speaker 2: And now we're all at a big disadvantage, and so
Speaker 2: my biological dad was seventeen when she was fifteen. He
Speaker 2: left when I was four or five years old. I
Speaker 2: was in the hospital for a long time. He kind
Speaker 2: of skipped out. Then.
Speaker 4: I don't have a relationship with him. I never really
Speaker 4: knew him.
Speaker 2: I chased him down a few years ago just to
Speaker 2: kind of get some closure in my life. But my mom,
Speaker 2: being a teenage mom, she wasn't super consistent. She was
Speaker 2: gone a lot. I was adopted by my grandmother. I
Speaker 2: was in and out of trailers and apartments, and then
Speaker 2: it was so normal, you know, looking back as an adult,
Speaker 2: you kind of admire the tenacity that little sucker who
Speaker 2: just continued to read books and go to school. You
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, I didn't have a bed. I never really
Speaker 2: thought about not having a bed. I knew I never
Speaker 2: had a bedroom, but I never had a bed. So
Speaker 2: I slept on the couch every night. My closet was
Speaker 2: underneath the couch and just got by.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 2: Luckily, I was pretty good at school, and so from
Speaker 2: a very young age, I knew that I did not
Speaker 2: want to be where I was, which was just a
Speaker 2: place of complete inconsistency.
Speaker 4: If that was food if that was where we were living.
Speaker 2: We moved around a bunch as a kid, But I
Speaker 2: think there was a lot of time struggling with Because
Speaker 2: my mom ended up dying in her forties with addiction issues,
Speaker 2: there was a lot of struggling with, like even me existing,
Speaker 2: there was a bunch of guilt that my mom wouldn't
Speaker 2: have had me, that her life would have been a
Speaker 2: whole lot better. So it was just a lot of inconsistency,
Speaker 2: And I think that's probably now why if there's anything
Speaker 2: I'm good at, it is being consistent and it's tenacity.
Speaker 2: I think those are really the skills that I've developed.
Speaker 2: My grandmother was the saving grace. Anytime my mom would leave,
Speaker 2: and she would leave for months at a time, a
Speaker 2: couple of years at a time, I would just go
Speaker 2: live with my grandmother and she was that consistency. It
Speaker 2: just sucks she was so old. If Grandma's could be younger,
Speaker 2: that'd be way cooler. But yeah, like my grandma was
Speaker 2: what really gave me the idea that consistency even existed.
Speaker 3: What advice do you have for young people who've had
Speaker 3: a background like you and are trying to start their
Speaker 3: adult lives.
Speaker 4: What do you tell them?
Speaker 2: I will tell them that if you climb out of
Speaker 2: the hole, you're so much stronger when you get out
Speaker 2: of the hole, and once you're back to even you
Speaker 2: are so much farther ahead than anybody who didn't have
Speaker 2: it as hard as you to weaponize whatever background you
Speaker 2: come from and whatever way you can. And that's generally
Speaker 2: the advice. I don't say it's easy. I will say, yeah,
Speaker 2: it sucks. I didn't go to a good school. I
Speaker 2: didn't have a good education. You don't either. But that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean we can't use that to our advantage, because again,
Speaker 2: that's sharpening a different iron that we get to use
Speaker 2: that other people don't use unless they have to.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: I think perspective is such a gift that nobody wants
Speaker 2: to get until they have it, because perspective is hard.
Speaker 2: You don't get perspective unless you go through something hard
Speaker 2: like that's the gift that when you have it, you're like, man,
Speaker 2: this is an awesome gift to have, but it did
Speaker 2: not feel good while getting it. And I think real
Speaker 2: talk like that and that somebody liked this has done
Speaker 2: it that often helps as well.
Speaker 3: I'm sure there must have been some people along the way,
Speaker 3: in addition to your grandmother who helped you see beyond
Speaker 3: your circumstances and in the future possibilities. You mentioned you
Speaker 3: were a smart student. You read a lot who put
Speaker 3: you on that track. How were those people who influenced you?
Speaker 4: Were there people? Specifically?
Speaker 2: My head football coach in high school's name was Vic Gandolf,
Speaker 2: and he was really the first male influence that I
Speaker 2: had that was hard on me, and it was of
Speaker 2: extreme value because I knew he cared about me, and
Speaker 2: I knew he wanted to see me be better, and
Speaker 2: his way to do it was to be harder on me.
Speaker 2: It was the first time I'd experienced that, and I
Speaker 2: think a lot of people get that from a parent.
Speaker 4: I didn't get that.
Speaker 2: From a parent, So I think it was people providing
Speaker 2: that consistency that gave me the fundamental jump off point
Speaker 2: to even see that I could do more than what
Speaker 2: was being done around me.
Speaker 3: You've talked a little bit and places I've read that
Speaker 3: you actually one of your regresses that you didn't get
Speaker 3: to go to University of Arkansas, which, by the way,
Speaker 3: they just gave you an honorary degree, So congratulations. Tell
Speaker 3: me about that. Obsession with the razorbacks.
Speaker 2: In Arkansas. We don't have any pro teams in Arkansas.
Speaker 2: We don't have much, but we do have something that
Speaker 2: kind of galvanizes the state, and that is the University
Speaker 2: of Arkansas. Like that is pretty much everyone's pride and
Speaker 2: joy I did not get to go to school there,
Speaker 2: which was really hard for me because I always wanted
Speaker 2: to go, but I had to work. And I think
Speaker 2: you'll relate to this growing up in a small town
Speaker 2: and understanding what it's like growing up in the South
Speaker 2: and having to pay your own bills and insurance and food.
Speaker 2: And I had to work, and I was waiting tables,
Speaker 2: and I was begging for jobs. And I got a
Speaker 2: job at a radio station and the radio was forty
Speaker 2: five minutes away, and they hire me to switch out
Speaker 2: a Rick D's Countdown CD and clean the front office.
Speaker 2: And to me, that was like getting a job in
Speaker 2: Los Angeles. I was like, this is crazy. I cannot
Speaker 2: believe they're paying me to work at radio station.
Speaker 4: Which city was that? In Bobby The radio station.
Speaker 2: Was in Hot Springs, Arkansas, but I went to school
Speaker 2: in Arkadelphia, Arkansas, so it was about a forty five
Speaker 2: minute drive too.
Speaker 4: And back.
Speaker 2: But before my first shift on the weekend of cleaning
Speaker 2: and flipping a CD, somebody got fired and I was
Speaker 2: just there.
Speaker 4: So they put me on on the weekends.
Speaker 2: And as you know, my real name is not Bobby Bones,
Speaker 2: it's Bobby Estell. And they said, Okay, your name is
Speaker 2: going to be Bobby Bones or Bobby Z. And I
Speaker 2: was like, man, Bobby Z sounds terrible, so at least
Speaker 2: I'll sound like a pirate that sounds like a real human.
Speaker 4: And that's how I got the name.
Speaker 2: Working at that really small station in Hot Springs, Arkansas
Speaker 2: while I went to college and so yes, I was
Speaker 2: not able to go to the University of Arkansas, but
Speaker 2: they did give me an honor, a doctorate, and when
Speaker 2: I want campus, they have to call me doctor.
Speaker 4: And that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3: Moral Math and Magic right after this quick break, welcome
Speaker 3: back to Math and Magic. Let's hear more from my
Speaker 3: conversation with Bobby Bones. Tell us about your starting radio
Speaker 3: So you go, you do the weekend shift. Where did
Speaker 3: you go from there? What point did you begin to
Speaker 3: be the Bobby Bones we sort of know and love
Speaker 3: and appreciate today.
Speaker 2: I think that guy came years later, as I was
Speaker 2: trying to figure out what I could and couldn't do right.
Speaker 2: I didn't have the traditional cool or deep booming radio voice.
Speaker 2: I really tried to have it. I tried in every
Speaker 2: way possible. And so I went from weekends and I
Speaker 2: was doing weekend overnights, and then I would do weekend nights.
Speaker 2: And the key to my success, at least at the beginning,
Speaker 2: has always been to be exactly where I'm told to
Speaker 2: be and where I said i'd be when I was
Speaker 2: supposed to be there. And so I was really consistent
Speaker 2: and if you needed me, I was there. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of value in that. And so I went from
Speaker 2: doing weekend nights too, I got the night shift. I'd
Speaker 2: been at the station for about a year. I was
Speaker 2: nineteen years old, and I had some offers pretty quickly
Speaker 2: to move to like the tri cities like Johnson City,
Speaker 2: Tennessee had stations that were interested in me coming to
Speaker 2: do night shows and other markets. But no one in
Speaker 2: my family had graduated high school, much less college, and
Speaker 2: so my goal was to go and finish college. So
Speaker 2: I stayed my entire run at KLAZ in Hot Springs, Arkansas.
Speaker 2: I did nights. Looking back, it was awesome. I built
Speaker 2: a really big, cool, fun night show, especially for that area.
Speaker 2: From there, I went to Little Rock and I was
Speaker 2: there like six months. From Little Rock, went to Austin,
Speaker 2: Texas and never been to Austin in my life, and
Speaker 2: that's where I started to kind of find who I
Speaker 2: was and that I didn't have what was traditional. But again,
Speaker 2: my weakness ended up being my biggest strength because I
Speaker 2: didn't chase that anymore. I knew what I had was
Speaker 2: the ability to talk to people, not at people, and
Speaker 2: although I didn't sound like what was traditional, I did
Speaker 2: sound like people that were traditionally in the lives of
Speaker 2: the people that listened to my show, so it kind
Speaker 2: of sounded like a friend and that worked. I did
Speaker 2: nights in Austin, and they were going to flip the
Speaker 2: format of the station in Austin and I just got
Speaker 2: an offer to move to Seattle and do nights, and
Speaker 2: I remember they called me in the office and said, Hey,
Speaker 2: what can we do to keep you?
Speaker 4: And I said I'd love to do mornings.
Speaker 2: I was twenty two, and they were like, I don't
Speaker 2: think that's going to be able to happen. I went
Speaker 2: in that following Monday and they offered me fifty thousand
Speaker 2: dollars a year to do mornings, and I thought I
Speaker 2: was the richest. It was Beverly Hillbilly's, Bob. It was
Speaker 2: Beverly Hillbilly's Just you know, thirty years later.
Speaker 3: I love that You've done a number of high profile
Speaker 3: TV projects. Let's hit a few of them. How did
Speaker 3: you get on American Idol? What did you both contribute
Speaker 3: and learn from that?
Speaker 2: So everything that I've done in any other medium other
Speaker 2: than radio is based off of my success in radio.
Speaker 2: So you know, my hub of radio podcast has allowed
Speaker 2: me to get in places and then they realize how
Speaker 2: big the following is because of audio, and then they
Speaker 2: allow me to expand. But I had done a pilot
Speaker 2: for ABC at daytime talk show pilot with Deon Sanders.
Speaker 2: It did not get picked up. So that's very disappointing
Speaker 2: because we worked hard on it. But I had made
Speaker 2: a couple of contacts, and it's all about relationships, and
Speaker 2: I think if anything, they were able to see that
Speaker 2: I have a bit of talent. But I was super consistent.
Speaker 2: It's the key to my success. And they said, hey,
Speaker 2: we need somebody to come in for one episode on
Speaker 2: American Idol, and we want you to work with the
Speaker 2: contestants on how to be interviewed, how to be on camera.
Speaker 2: And it really was no more than that. It was
Speaker 2: one episode, and so I was like cool. They didn't
Speaker 2: know anything about me, the people that were running the show,
Speaker 2: So I didn't tell them I was from Nashville because
Speaker 2: I didn't want them to think that it was going
Speaker 2: to be difficult for me to get to set.
Speaker 4: So I do the job. I come, I crush it
Speaker 4: for one episode.
Speaker 2: But what they realized and what I was able to
Speaker 2: do was talk to these kids and young adults because
Speaker 2: a lot of them for the first time. I had
Speaker 2: never been to Los Angeles or New York, and here
Speaker 2: I am. I had the same story. I'd never been
Speaker 2: to a big city like that until work got me there.
Speaker 2: And as wide eyed as they were, that's what I
Speaker 2: was not too long before that, So being able to
Speaker 2: relate to their stories and situations, but also so having
Speaker 2: the knowledge of knowing music, knowing how to be good
Speaker 2: on Mike and on camera, knowing what songs to pick,
Speaker 2: having a history of just studying music and pop culture
Speaker 2: like all that helps. They put me on two episodes again.
Speaker 2: They didn't know that I didn't live there. So I'm
Speaker 2: making Union minimum, which is like two thousand dollars an
Speaker 2: episode for the first two episodes, but it's costing me
Speaker 2: about three thousand dollars an episode to be out there
Speaker 2: because I happened to fly both ways. I'm having to
Speaker 2: pay for my own hotel. I just didn't want to
Speaker 2: be anw sence therefore they wouldn't work with me anymore.
Speaker 2: In my mind, that's what happened. So they had me
Speaker 2: back for a third episode. I'm down like four grand
Speaker 2: at this point doing three episodes of American Idol, And
Speaker 2: finally I told them, Hey, just so you guys know,
Speaker 2: I've lost a bunch of money doing that. I love
Speaker 2: doing it, but I don't live in LA and would
Speaker 2: love to do more. But is there a way at
Speaker 2: that you could compensate? And they were like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: of course. So the final episode of the season one,
Speaker 2: they gave me fifty thousand dollars and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is awesome. I'd built a relationship with those guys.
Speaker 2: They trusted me where they would send talent with me,
Speaker 2: and Ryan was really starting to get busy doing Ryan
Speaker 2: and Kelly and so there were times when Ryan couldn't
Speaker 2: fly back to Los Angeles, so any of his junior
Speaker 2: varsity duties they would have me do. I haven't filled
Speaker 2: in his host for him once when he got sick,
Speaker 2: so I was basically Ryan's JV squad, which to me awesome,
Speaker 2: I'll take it. But they came back season two and
Speaker 2: they were like, hey, we want you to be a
Speaker 2: full time member. And I can tell you the pay
Speaker 2: was about fifty times what it was for that one
Speaker 2: final episode. And again it was because I showed up
Speaker 2: on time every time and had the ability to talk
Speaker 2: with people, not talk at them.
Speaker 3: So Dancing with the Stars, I've never thought of you
Speaker 3: as the amazing dancer, yet you won Dancing with the Stars.
Speaker 4: What's that story? Well, still was an amazing dancer even
Speaker 4: after I won.
Speaker 2: The real story is and God's honest truth, they told
Speaker 2: me after the final episode after I won the show,
Speaker 2: because I was not good. I'd never danced before. I
Speaker 2: was also the only person that had a job and
Speaker 2: was working the entire show because a lot of people
Speaker 2: on that are creatives and they cut off a time,
Speaker 2: or they're ex athletes and they cut out a time
Speaker 2: and they go and spend three months dancing on television.
Speaker 2: I couldn't do that because I had a radio show
Speaker 2: to do every single morning, and so I did the
Speaker 2: show because I was in La So I would be
Speaker 2: on at three am to eight am, and then I
Speaker 2: would go and train for six eight hours, no dance
Speaker 2: experience at all, and I am surviving. I am not thriving.
Speaker 2: I never got great scores, but I was never in
Speaker 2: the bottom three. It's a bit controversial because I wasn't good,
Speaker 2: but I took it very seriously.
Speaker 4: I trained really hard. I ended up winning the show.
Speaker 2: The executive told me at ABC, he said, hey, look,
Speaker 2: we knew about after episode one or two that nobody
Speaker 2: had the following you did.
Speaker 4: That.
Speaker 2: There were people with millions and millions on social media
Speaker 2: and I have a million, a couple million, but with
Speaker 2: like tens of millions that didn't have the following that
Speaker 2: you did. And it was because the people that listen
Speaker 2: to my radio show and podcasts came along with me.
Speaker 2: That was the whole reason I won. They saw I
Speaker 2: was serious about it. I was, and that's what allowed
Speaker 2: me to win that show. Was like, my people came
Speaker 2: along with me.
Speaker 3: So how does being on TV different from being on
Speaker 3: the radio.
Speaker 4: You got to put on more makeup. That sucks. You
Speaker 4: got to wait around a lot.
Speaker 2: I love doing audio, doing radio, doing podcasting more than
Speaker 2: anything in the whole world. TV is so fickle, and
Speaker 2: you go job to job again. I'll give some more
Speaker 2: credit to Ryan Seacrest. When we did Idle together, we
Speaker 2: would talk about that and he would go, hey, TV's fun,
Speaker 2: it's glamorous. It makes you cool for a second. But
Speaker 2: if you want a sustaining career and you want people
Speaker 2: to stay with you, it's audio. I've always felt that
Speaker 2: way too, you know, I always wanted to have a
Speaker 2: late night talk show. What's cool now is you can
Speaker 2: do that. You just turn some cameras on and you
Speaker 2: also record the audio for a podcast. And so television
Speaker 2: has been fun. It's allowed me to try things. I've
Speaker 2: gotten hurt a few times. I did a show called
Speaker 2: Breaking Bobby Bones, Let Me on Fire, through Me Off Buildings.
Speaker 4: Like all that's happened.
Speaker 2: I feel like I've been to have a pretty successful
Speaker 2: television career, but it doesn't feel as authentic, even at
Speaker 2: its most authentic, as audio does.
Speaker 4: Let's jump to podcasting.
Speaker 3: Some people call it radio on demand, like Netflix is
Speaker 3: probably TV on demand. How does podcasting differ from doing
Speaker 3: a live radio show.
Speaker 2: I think if you love long form like super long
Speaker 2: form media, which I do, podcasting is a plus. I
Speaker 2: think it just kind of depends what your schedule is, right.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to make content to fit everybody's schedule that
Speaker 2: has every different kind of schedule. So if you got
Speaker 2: thirty seconds, I got something for you on the YouTube
Speaker 2: channel or my social if you have an hour and
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes. I had Ringo Star over at the house
Speaker 2: and it was crazy, and we did an hour and
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes talking about the Beatles and talking about country music.
Speaker 2: Podcasting allows me to really get down in.
Speaker 4: The weeds a little bit. Even this conversation.
Speaker 2: We probably wouldn't get to have this on my morning
Speaker 2: radio show, mostly for time reasons. But sitting here with
Speaker 2: you now, we could do this for three hours with
Speaker 2: really no restrictions. Now that's not for everybody, but for
Speaker 2: the people it's four It really fills a need and
Speaker 2: I'm one of those people that need it.
Speaker 3: You're the host of the iHeart Country Festival in Austin
Speaker 3: each year. How does that fit with everything else you do?
Speaker 2: It's kind of the tent pole of everything else I do.
Speaker 2: All of my success has been because of the success
Speaker 2: and the investment in me with the radio show. You know,
Speaker 2: there's the wedding and the wedding reception, and so the
Speaker 2: iHeart Country Festival that's kind of the wedding reception of
Speaker 2: the job. And what's been really cool is I've played
Speaker 2: the festival four times. I've hosted it I think nine
Speaker 2: or ten times at this point. So I feel like
Speaker 2: I'm as ingrained as that festival is to just this
Speaker 2: time of year. And Austin is a great city for it.
Speaker 2: It's not Nashville. Nashville people tend to get a bit
Speaker 2: jaded because it's always here Austin.
Speaker 4: I lived there for twelve years.
Speaker 2: People love music, it's it's a great place to go
Speaker 2: and have this festival. The artists love it as well,
Speaker 2: and so for me is kind of the party and
Speaker 2: the celebration of what we've been able to do and
Speaker 2: also what we're doing.
Speaker 4: But also with my friends.
Speaker 2: Again, those guys, I think there are three acts that
Speaker 2: played my literal wedding. I didn't pay them. They're just
Speaker 2: my friends who were coming to the wedding anyway. So
Speaker 2: they got up there and sang songs.
Speaker 3: You've done some amazing interviews. What do you try to
Speaker 3: get each time you interview with someone?
Speaker 2: I try to feel what they're feeling when we start,
Speaker 2: because I can go into an interview with my goals,
Speaker 2: even an agenda, but if the person isn't feeling it,
Speaker 2: I think now I have the emotional intelligence to roll
Speaker 2: with them and trust that I will get us somewhere,
Speaker 2: if not just as good better. So I think silence
Speaker 2: is a massive weapon that I now am comfortable using.
Speaker 2: And it's hard to be silent interview. It feels awkward.
Speaker 2: Some people always want there to be sound. Some people
Speaker 2: that are doing interviews, if there's a gap, they want
Speaker 2: to fill it. I feel now comfortable enough in my
Speaker 2: own skin and interviewing skills to sit in silence for
Speaker 2: a second, because what happens is the person being interviewed
Speaker 2: often gives their best if there's silence, because they put
Speaker 2: the pressure on them to continue allowing you into their lives.
Speaker 2: More So, I think for me, I have an idea
Speaker 2: of what I want, I'll quickly change.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: It's like if you have an offensive plan, but they've
Speaker 2: got eight guys in the box. You're not going to
Speaker 2: run the ball, so you're now going to have to
Speaker 2: throw the ball, so you better adjust quickly. I think
Speaker 2: now I feel comfortable doing that, and that happens a lot,
Speaker 2: and when it doesn't, it's awesome, but when it does,
Speaker 2: there have been times where it's better than it would
Speaker 2: have been regardless. I think just being comfortable knowing that
Speaker 2: and trusting myself to modify on the move has been
Speaker 2: really great for me, and that just comes from reps,
Speaker 2: honestly doing it over and over again.
Speaker 4: Been intimidated by any of the stars interview.
Speaker 2: At first, I think I was because they were all rich.
Speaker 2: And what's weird is I'm rich now too, thanks to you,
Speaker 2: So that part's gone. So I was always like, man,
Speaker 2: people with money, I'm just so intimidated by them. But
Speaker 2: now it's there's an understanding with creatives that I'm talking
Speaker 2: to that we all kind of have a screw loose.
Speaker 2: It just happens to be the right screw we're able
Speaker 2: to create something really cool. And also, as I've been
Speaker 2: in Nashville and got to be friends with a lot
Speaker 2: of the men women that have come up around the
Speaker 2: same time, meaning they didn't have much success and now
Speaker 2: they're massive. They're just normal people. But it's easy to
Speaker 2: say that until you actually see that. You know, I
Speaker 2: did idol with Luke Bryan for four years and we
Speaker 2: would travel to and from and looks like a close friend,
Speaker 2: but looks like the most normal guy. And I mentioned
Speaker 2: Ringo Star earlier and I wasn't intimidated by him, but
Speaker 2: what I was intimidated by was the history of him.
Speaker 2: And I think my intimidation kind of rooted in I'd
Speaker 2: rather not screw this up because of the history of
Speaker 2: who I'm sitting with. So a moment can be intimidating now,
Speaker 2: I think way more than a person can, because in
Speaker 2: the end, we're all awesome and flawed. But it's taken
Speaker 2: me a long time to realize that.
Speaker 3: I think, of all the interviewers you've done, that's the
Speaker 3: only one you ever sent me a text about.
Speaker 4: With the picture then okay.
Speaker 2: And that's why, because I also know, I know you
Speaker 2: appreciate the history of it aside from it being Ringo,
Speaker 2: and that's cool. It was kind of like, hey, Bob,
Speaker 2: you're like me, You'll really appreciate this. This is real
Speaker 2: history that we're getting to be a part of right Now.
Speaker 3: Let's talk a little bit about ambition and expectations. When
Speaker 3: you're growing up in Mountain Pine, did you think you'd
Speaker 3: be successful as an adult? What kind of dreams of
Speaker 3: the future did you allow.
Speaker 4: Yourself to have.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I thought I'd be so successful, only because
Speaker 2: if I didn't believe that, I don't think I would have.
Speaker 4: Got out of there.
Speaker 2: So there was never a lack of confidence. At times,
Speaker 2: there was a lack of understanding how I was going
Speaker 2: to do it because nobody else around me was doing it.
Speaker 2: That was TV like moving out of your town, moving
Speaker 2: out of Arkansas. That was television only that wasn't real life.
Speaker 2: I was never told I couldn't do something. I think
Speaker 2: that's pretty cool. I was not shown how to do anything,
Speaker 2: But I was never told I couldn't. And so I
Speaker 2: was just naive enough and just confident enough to lean
Speaker 2: into it and really not have a plan B.
Speaker 4: And that's what I did. You know.
Speaker 3: It's interesting there's a lot of talk in America about
Speaker 3: people and living in poverty, etc.
Speaker 4: But all of us who.
Speaker 3: Were poor, I think, probably share one trait, as we
Speaker 3: all dreamed about doing really well.
Speaker 2: To me, it was more I just want to be
Speaker 2: fulfilled and not hate my job. Everybody hated their job,
Speaker 2: like my stepdad when my mom got married, he hated
Speaker 2: going to the mill. Anybody did it every day, and
Speaker 2: so I didn't want that, and I had crazy aspirations,
Speaker 2: and I knew they were crazy then, but also knew
Speaker 2: that every once in a while something crazy happens to
Speaker 2: people that have crazy dreams, and so it also didn't
Speaker 2: happen overnight. There's revisionist history that it was like all
Speaker 2: of a sudden, I'm born in Arkansas, Boom, I have
Speaker 2: a national radio show, Like there never really was this
Speaker 2: moment where everything changed. It was one rung of the ladder,
Speaker 2: sometimes falling down a couple of rungs, and slowly growing it.
Speaker 3: You know, this podcast is actually for marketers, Math and
Speaker 3: Magic stories from the frontiers of marketing. A lot of
Speaker 3: marketers don't listen to country music, and they don't really
Speaker 3: have an understanding of it. What advice would you give
Speaker 3: them about how they should use it.
Speaker 2: I think what happens with people who don't listen to
Speaker 2: country music is that they've probably been conditioned that country
Speaker 2: music is a cariacture of what it really is. I
Speaker 2: think if you were to go to somebody says, oh,
Speaker 2: do you listen to country, and they're like, no, they
Speaker 2: do an impression of country. They'd go battle, Lame, Dame down.
Speaker 2: And there is part of that and it's rooted in that.
Speaker 2: But what the country music is to me is just
Speaker 2: authentic lyrics, music with mostly real instruments, stories, and then
Speaker 2: loyalty to artists like I talked about earlier, loyalty to people,
Speaker 2: loyalty just like loyalty they want with their products.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: I think that's what country music is. It is based
Speaker 2: in loyalty. It's got to be good or people aren't
Speaker 2: gonna like it. There's a reason that these guys are
Speaker 2: selling out football stadiums, and it's not because there's a
Speaker 2: bunch of people in overall showing up, which by the way,
Speaker 2: I had many pair of overalls and God bless overalls.
Speaker 2: But it's normal people that are going to normal jobs
Speaker 2: that have money that spends just like anyone else's does,
Speaker 2: but oftentimes feel like they're not paid the attention to
Speaker 2: because they're not in La or New York.
Speaker 4: And I relate to that so much.
Speaker 3: So still a little advice here, if you could go
Speaker 3: back in time. What advice would you give your twenty
Speaker 3: one year old self.
Speaker 4: It's just tenacity is a talent.
Speaker 2: Because I never felt like I was super talented at anything,
Speaker 2: because I ever had one skill that I can lean on.
Speaker 2: It couldn't sing, didn't have a great voice, wasn't super funny,
Speaker 2: didn't have really one thing that I knew if all
Speaker 2: else went wrong, I could lean on this talent. But
Speaker 2: as I got older, I started to realize that being
Speaker 2: tenacious and not stopping being tenacious, that's a real talent.
Speaker 2: And I would just say, continue to be tenacious, continue
Speaker 2: to be curious, and it's all going to happen. It
Speaker 2: may not happen at the pace that you want. Sometimes
Speaker 2: it may happen faster than you want. Sometimes it may
Speaker 2: happen in a way that you're not ready for. But
Speaker 2: if you just keep pushing, eventually it'll happen.
Speaker 3: Bobby, it is a real honor and pleasure to work
Speaker 3: with you here at iHeart, and it's rewarding to watch
Speaker 3: the audience you've built on the radio and podcast and
Speaker 3: see how you take such great care of them. Thank
Speaker 3: you and thanks for the insights today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for having me and I'll just do
Speaker 2: the shameless. You can put a lot of touch on
Speaker 2: my fingertips right now. I literally wouldn't be here if
Speaker 2: it weren't for a guy from a small town in
Speaker 2: Mississippi who believed in a small town kid from Arkansas
Speaker 2: and going, we're going to invest in you. Therefore we
Speaker 2: believe in you and the guy his name is Bob,
Speaker 2: just like my name. So I would not be here
Speaker 2: without mister Bob Pittman. You're from a small town and
Speaker 2: it takes people like you to do things sometimes for
Speaker 2: people like me to go okay, someone else did it
Speaker 2: before me.
Speaker 4: I think I can really dial in as well.
Speaker 2: So without me being able to see that, and without
Speaker 2: you believing in me, I definitely wouldn't be here today.
Speaker 3: Well, you've been one of the great investments of our company.
Speaker 4: Thanks Bobby.
Speaker 3: Here are a few things I picked up from my
Speaker 3: conversation with Bobby. One, consistency can be everything. Bobby didn't
Speaker 3: feel like he had an especially deep radio voice. He
Speaker 3: actually didn't think he had any special skills, but early
Speaker 3: in his career, if stations needed him, he was there.
Speaker 3: Bobby's dependability continue. You need to benefit him for years to come.
Speaker 4: It still does.
Speaker 3: Being reliable and tenacious or talents in themselves.
Speaker 4: And they won't go unnoticed. Two. Own your story. Bobby
Speaker 4: has a strong sense of.
Speaker 3: Identity, shaped by the unique perspective he gained through his
Speaker 3: challenging childhood. Perspective is a hard won strength that you
Speaker 3: shouldn't take for granted. Bobby has used it to connect
Speaker 3: with his listeners and build an incredibly loyal fan base.
Speaker 3: He knows that the intimacy and authenticity of audio has
Speaker 3: allowed him to show up as himself. That's part of
Speaker 3: what makes him stand out.
Speaker 4: From the crowd. Three.
Speaker 3: Emotional intelligence is a muscle you can train. Bobby has
Speaker 3: a deep connection with his fans, but he also had
Speaker 3: to learn how to engage his guests. Conducting a great
Speaker 3: interview doesn't mean sticking to.
Speaker 4: A pre prepared script.
Speaker 3: It means listening and understanding where someone is coming from.
Speaker 3: Interviewing didn't always come naturally to Bobby, but he developed
Speaker 3: the skill by doing it over and over and over again.
Speaker 3: Whether you're in the studio, a conference room, or a boardroom,
Speaker 3: growing your emotional intelligence can make you more adaptable in
Speaker 3: any situation. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 4: That's it for today's episode.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a
Speaker 1: production of iHeart Podcasts. The show is created and hosted
Speaker 1: by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sidney Rosenbloom for booking
Speaker 1: and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no small feat.
Speaker 1: The Math and Magic team is Jessica Crimechich and Baheed Fraser.
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Ali Perry and Nikki Etour. Until
Speaker 1: next time.