WEBVTT - Session 457: Exploring Sober Curiosity 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:14.480 Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:19.320 conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.480 decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.600 of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:32.040 a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.600 to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.440 at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.479 love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.400 not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:57.360 a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:59.560 for joining me for session four fifty seven of the 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:02.600 Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:15.840 conversation after word from our sponsors. At the start of 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:18.240 a new year, it's coming to see people vow to 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.360 take a month long break from alcohol. But as research 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:24.039 continues to uncover the tool that alcohol can take on 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:27.320 our overall health Dry January, he has evolved from a 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:31.160 yearly challenge into a full on lifestyle change towards mindful drinking. 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:33.720 Now a lot more of us are seeing what does 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.680 it look like to invite more sober moments into everyday life. 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.400 This is where the idea of sober curiosity comes in. 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:44.600 It's not about adopting a complete anti alcohol mindset, but 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:46.840 about looking at it as more of an option rather 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:49.720 than a necessity. So whether you want to swap your 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:53.720 cocktail or a mocktail occasionally, or fully shift your habits, 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.080 the journey can look different for everyone. Here to dive 0:01:57.120 --> 0:02:00.720 into exploring sober curiosity with us as our returning Kristin 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:04.560 Fiememster as a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.800 personal trainer. She aims for wellness in both physical and 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:10.960 mental health in her work. Today we chat about what 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:14.680 sober curiosity really means and why this movement is resonating 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.440 so deeply for so many of us. We also talked 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:21.000 about practical ways to step into sober curiosity and how 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.840 to build a lifestyle that feels sustainable and rewarding for 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:27.440 your overall well being. If something resonates with you while 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.480 enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on social 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:34.760 media using the hashtag tpg in session, or join us 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.359 over in our patreons and talk more about the episode. 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:40.200 You can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:49.080 dot Com. Here's our conversation. It's so good to see 0:02:49.120 --> 0:02:50.040 you again, Kristin. 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:52.320 Yes, it's nice to see you as well. 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:55.520 Yeah, thank you so much for coming back to chat 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:59.000 with me. So, I have been seeing a term that 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.320 has been you online and maybe even in clients are gos. 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.360 I'm guessing maybe you have seen this in your practice 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:08.120 as well, sober curious, which feels like a newer term. 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:10.160 So what is that? What do you think people are 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.800 referring to when they talk about being sober curious? 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:16.680 Yes, I do think that sober curious is a new term, 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:19.480 a movement. I guess you could call it of people 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:23.880 who are basically reevaluating their relationship with alcohol, Like maybe 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.640 they don't feel like their habits are to the extreme, 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.800 but they're still wanting to just take a more curious 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:32.360 look at how it's showing up in their life and 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.840 so taking the steps to reduce their intake or to 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:38.920 stain for a period of time just to understand more 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.880 about how it shows up for them. 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:43.960 And when you've been on the podcast previously, you've talked 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.520 about your sobriety journey, right, so it has been probably 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:50.040 tenuous plus since you have been sober. Can you talk 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.400 about what was going on in your life then when 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:54.560 you started to think, like I need to reevaluate my 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:56.160 own relationship with alcohol. 0:03:57.160 --> 0:03:59.960 Yes, so I'm eleven years, eleven years and some change. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:04.840 So we are grateful for that journey. Every day I 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.000 have a different and maybe we'll talk about this so 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.720 today too. You know, I had a different experience of 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:13.040 coming to realize my relationship with alcohol. But I do 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.200 think that there were some moments in time early on, 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.159 maybe before it actually became a problem for me, that 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:23.360 I was I don't know if curious is the word, 0:04:23.360 --> 0:04:26.240 but questioning for sure how I was using it, What 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:28.680 were the triggers I guess you could say that would 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.640 lead me to drinking more or drinking less, or the environment, 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.520 that sort of thing, things that I just started to notice. 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:37.279 And so I think for me that journey has really 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:40.920 just been about journey. Early on was really just about 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.120 coming to terms with is this still fun? I think 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.360 we start to have more of a party lifestyle and 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:49.840 do things in a more social way. And I think 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.720 that through my sober curious portion of my journey, I 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.960 realized that I was functioning or using it in a 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.800 way trying to get back to something that had all 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.680 long past, which was the fun and the lighthearted, vironrant 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.320 part of just living life and maybe having a few drinks. 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:09.039 It started to take a turn for me, and I 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.480 think that's where I started to explore, you know, how 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.440 much am I actually drinking and it's this actually fun? 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:18.480 Am I just keeping it to social settings? Or do 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.480 I find that I'm drinking more in isolation? And how 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.360 do I feel when I wake up the next morning? 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.560 Am I able to function for my next day? Or 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:28.520 is this really impacting the way I'm able to show 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.719 up my career and my relationships and that sort of thing. 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:35.880 And so that questioning began my own journey to realizing 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:39.320 that it was time to take a long break from 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:40.200 it for myself. 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.039 Yeah, I think what you're talking about, and even the 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.400 fact that there is this conversation around sober curiosity right like, 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:50.240 speaks to this shift in our relationship to alcohol and 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.840 just societally what we think about alcohol. I think historically 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.359 it has felt like it was pretty harmless, you know, 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:58.720 it's something that everybody does, like it's okay to have 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:00.800 a few drinks. And it feels like we are now 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.159 looking at it much more seriously as a substance that 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.920 can be harmful depending on the quantities. Can talk a 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.280 little bit about like where we find ourselves, and like 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:14.560 the movement towards people really reevaluating their relationship to this substance. 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.479 I think that health trends. I hope that this one's 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.160 here to stay, and I hope I feel like similar 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:23.000 to how cigarettes has shifted for good as far as 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:25.440 how we cigarettes used to be a thing, you know, 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:30.799 like a fun, social, advertised marketed thing for a long time, 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.120 and then within recent years the advertisement and the culture 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.719 around it has changed. So I hope that something similar 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.080 is happening with alcohol, to really see the genuine impact 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:43.400 of it as being a substance, as being a toxin 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:46.880 for the body, and maybe some of the negative impacts 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:50.000 that we experience, such as hangovers and headaches and that 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.920 sort of thing, is from the impact of that. I 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:55.440 hope that it is here to stay. But I also 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:59.839 know that we are also experiencing an uptick in people 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.760 aware of their mental health, people pursuing fitness in a 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:07.279 balance way, people pursuing longevity in their health, and so 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:11.760 I think those two components are coming together to have 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.800 people realizing, particularly the mental health awareness, because I don't 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:19.280 think we've always if anything, maybe alcohol has been seen 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:21.640 as a way to escape your problems and to feel better. 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:23.800 But now we're starting to realize that, hey, that actually 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:28.400 makes anxiety worse, that actually exacerbates my depression symptoms, and 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:32.240 so maybe I don't necessarily need to just automatically buy 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:36.760 into the social culture of it. And so collectively, I 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:40.360 think we're starting to look at longevity and look a 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:43.800 little deeper underneath the surface as far as wellness is concerned, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.680 and so alcohol being so prominent, it makes perfect sense 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:48.960 that it would be the first thing that we would 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:50.800 start to look at and be like, and why are 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:53.440 we doing this so much on our weekends in our 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:54.280 social lives. 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:57.800 It's interesting that you point to wellness because I definitely know, 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.280 of course the mental and physical health, But you're right, 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.480 like the larger conversations around wellness I think are shining 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:07.720 a light on what we are doing with substances. Can 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.200 you talk about maybe some of those early symptoms like 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:13.960 sleep or the physical impact that alcohol can have, Like 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:16.640 some of those very early symptoms that might be a 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.960 sign that you want to explore your relationship to substances. 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.040 What we know about alcohol is that it's a diuretic, 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.680 and so it's also a toxin to the body. And 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.120 so when we adjust alcohol, our body, although we get 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:33.240 a bus or whatever feel good feelings we have, our 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:35.120 body is trying to get rid of it as soon 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:37.080 as possible. And so a lot of types people will 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.520 notice as soon as I start drinking, I can't stay 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.280 out of the bathroom, going to the bathroom over and 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:44.160 over again. It's actually your body trying to flush what 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.920 you put in it out, and that typically for most people, 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.439 if you're not careful with your water and your electrolytes 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.199 while you're drinking, can lead to dehydration. So a lot 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:57.679 of the symptoms that people notice are symptoms of dehydration, headaches, 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:02.480 mental fog, dry mouth, different things like that. Nausea, vomiting 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:06.040 even can still be related to that. And when it 0:09:06.040 --> 0:09:09.360 comes to sleep, sometimes people think that alcohol is actually 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.960 helping them to sleep, and although you are not awake anymore, 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:17.400 it's not necessarily the healthiest version of sleep, and so 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.320 it does depress your central nervous system, but that's only 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.960 a temporary that's not a rim sleep, a healthy sleep state. 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:29.120 It's more of a coming into and out of consciousness, 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.520 and so for a lot of people, they feel like, oh, 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:33.880 a glass of wine or something at night, it really 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.320 helps me to go to sleep. But then I don't 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:38.800 know the exact numbers with studies, but studies will show 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.560 that sleep is not exactly RESTful as it would have 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:45.000 been had they gotten the same amount sober and so 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.080 I think there's a lot of misconceptions around that that 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:51.080 people are starting to realize when you again pay attention, 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.400 when there's an increase in conversation around it, there's an 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.679 awareness that comes in and then you're able to assess 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:59.440 how am I actually sleeping? Do I actually feel rested 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.680 in the morning, no one went to sleep, do I 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:04.960 wake up rested? Is actually the question I think for 0:10:05.080 --> 0:10:08.000 me in my younger days, hangovers was just a part 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.520 of the norm. But now it's like, but do I 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:13.200 want to be hungover every Saturday morning or do I 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.440 want to have a different experience? And so I think 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.600 a lot of people are noticing that for themselves and 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:19.960 deciding to make a shift. 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:24.400 Yeah, you mentioned the misconception, and I think another misconception 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:27.200 around like alcohol and sobriety is that you have to 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:30.680 hit rock bottom before you start to like, seriously look 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:33.240 at your relationship to alcohol. Can you address that and 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.199 talk about why that may be a misconception. 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.480 Yes, so that is a common misconception rooted in like 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.200 the extremes of addiction and how it's been depicted. I 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.040 think to us and really, maybe you know, because we 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:46.880 haven't had conversations about what I like to call gray 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:50.480 area drinking. We usually don't come to understand an addiction 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:53.120 until we can visibly see it in someone's life, whether 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:56.680 it be their health, they're losing their job, losing their family, 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.800 then we could observe, oh, that addiction has caused them 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.240 those issues, right, And so that really leads out a 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:06.880 whole pool of people who are also consuming alcohol at 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:11.000 varying levels, but they just haven't hit that typical stereotypical 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:17.120 be homeless, isolated individual's lifestyle to really recognize it. And 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:19.760 so when it comes to the gift we have, I 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:23.880 guess now with having more conversations around our relationship with alcohols, 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.320 that we really can stop ourselves sooner. Whether it be 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.480 because you have know so physical dependence that hasn't necessarily 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.200 caused a lot of intense consequences, or if you find 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.480 yourself on the other side of the spectrum where you're 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.040 just not really sure why you're engaging with it. We 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.400 actually have the opportunity to not wait until it's that bad, 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.440 to actually start exploring yet and pulling ourselves back. I 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.360 would consider myself to be one of those people, and 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.880 that I got sober at twenty six, which was unheard 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.000 of at the time. But you're so young, you could 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:55.880 just you know, you don't want to just try and 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.640 see if you can manage it or whatever. And I 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.080 just decided this is probably the best chance I'm going 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.440 to have to address this and to live a full, 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:08.520 vibrant life is right now. And so I also think 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:10.760 that there were a lot more consequences that I could 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.760 have it probably would have experienced had I kept drinking, 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.760 But because of a healthy support system and knowing a 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.760 little bit about addiction already, I was able to gather 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.560 that together to take care of it sooner later. 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.040 Christ then you mentioned the term gray area drinking, and 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:29.920 I feel like we've talked a little bit about like 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:33.520 how alcohol has been socially acceptable and it's okay to 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:35.640 have a couple of drinks with friends, are happy hours right, 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.680 Like it really is like very it has become a 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.280 thing in so many of our lives, very pervasive, without 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.960 I think us even paying attention. And it feels like 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:45.880 there is a lot that has happened in pop culture 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:49.760 that has also normalized this idea of having a glass 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:52.160 of wine to relax, Like this is what I deserve 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.319 after a very difficult day. Right, So I think about 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.800 like Olivia Poope and her classic red wieline right with 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:01.199 the white couch, Well, I hate yeah, how to get 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:03.480 Away with Murder? Like it very much has been like 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.600 an idea that this is something that's very normal. What 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:09.120 do you think about like the ways that alcohol has 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:12.080 been glamorized in some ways and really connected to like 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:14.320 stress relief and how that leads to maybe this great 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:15.120 area drinking. 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.440 Yeah, it's a challenge. It's a challenge I think in 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.600 sobriety and as a clinician that works with people who 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.480 where it gets complicated and you can really see how 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.240 people wrestle with is this normal or is this a 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:30.840 problem for me? I get frustrated with the way alcohol 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.560 is marketed and just the lifestyle of it. I can't 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.000 help but see commercials during the Super Bowl or there's 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.839 a commercial with a beer right now, that is kind 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.640 of alluding to a guy having a better chance dating 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.560 a girl if you bring strengths over to her. And anyway, 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:47.800 you could just read into the underlying messages and a 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.439 lot of the marketing that we're fed and so sometimes 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:53.960 I don't even think we're actually choosing to participate into 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.400 the lifestyle. In a lot of ways have gotten conditioned 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.800 by way of commercial here an event there. Even in 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:04.560 the wellness space, I've sometimes seen wellness activities paired with 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.040 drinking when I think it's a way to try to 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.920 market and try to get as many people as possible 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.079 to see this as fun and inviting and a place 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:17.319 to socialize, and then in participating in that that becomes 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.960 the norm. So then maybe we seek them out more 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.640 than we actually should and center it in our lives 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.080 more than we actually should. But I think we could 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:29.600 also talk about how big alcohol is a I'm sure 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.680 a billion dollar company, and so anything that's going to 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.920 make money is going to be pushed on us, whether 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:41.000 the consequences of that are positive or negative for us personally. 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.600 So just being aware of those things at play and 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:46.240 having those conversations can really help us shift the. 0:14:46.280 --> 0:15:00.200 Narrative more from our conversation after the break, you know 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.360 a lot about like the more we hear about like 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:06.600 loneliness and epidemic, especially male loneliness, although we know generally 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.480 people are lonely in the continuing stresses where we find 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:13.280 ourselves post pandemic, just the state of the world right like, 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:15.200 I think it's led to a lot of stress and 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:19.120 people looking at alcohol as a way to relieve that stress. 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:21.720 Have you been having conversations or seeing things generally in 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:25.640 your circles around like increase alcohol consumption related to all 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.160 of these stressors I have. 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.640 I think naturally just for me personally getting sober early, 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:33.920 I think my awareness of what that's looked like and 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.280 conversations has kind of given me a clearer lens for 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:41.280 what I'm hearing from my own personal relationships or the 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.040 clients or with the collective. I definitely saw an increase 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.320 in I think when the pandemic came. I think everybody 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.000 was just sincere panic emotionally on how to cope with 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.040 something like that. And I do remember seeing a major 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.760 uptick in associating being able to stay and work from 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:03.200 home with drinking and letting loose and coping and rationalizing 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:06.360 the use of alcohol because of feeling out of control 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.360 and us not knowing what to expect and looking for 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.160 something to help us escape or feel better. I think 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:16.440 a lot of times around those stressors, we hear that 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.960 with mommy wine culture, we hear that a lot in 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.760 a lot of different ways. It just becomes normalized. And 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.240 when you're struggling, you don't want to always you never 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:29.960 actually want to feel judged, and so I think that 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.520 we then start to relate over the misery of it 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:36.360 through this coping skill that is ultimately not helping. But 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:38.280 I see that a lot with mommy culture, we can 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.760 bond and we can relate on our similarities here and 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.560 have this common coping for the relief of it and 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.520 the bonding that it promotes. And so it's definitely a 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:52.160 slippery slope of what's normal and what's not normal, because 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:56.400 everyone doesn't necessarily need to live a sober lifestyle. But 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:00.640 anytime you're associating drinking with those emotional chile lenges, I 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.560 think that it's a slippery slope for future issues. 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:06.560 So I'd love to stay there for a second. Because 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.639 you mentioned even earlier that when you were considering becoming sober, 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:11.480 like there were people like, oh, you're so young, is 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:13.720 this something that you really want to do? And so 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.359 for people who are thinking like, Okay, I'm not quite sure, 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.280 like I'm on the sober forever train, but I do 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:24.119 want to reevaluate or become more mindful around my relationship 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.879 to alcohol. Where should they start? What kinds of questions 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:28.600 should they be asking themselves? 0:17:29.040 --> 0:17:32.080 Well, first, I recommend getting an understanding of how much 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.359 you're drinking as is. I think if you're just living 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.280 life and assuming that, oh, I think I'm drinking too 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:40.160 much when I'm not exactly sure, I say, go ahead 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.040 and get the data. Go ahead and get the data, 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.320 and track you're drinking for a month, track you're drinking. 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.480 Some people for a week, they might have the information 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:49.600 they need. But track you're drinking to see what patterns 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.760 you notice, to see what the frequency is, to see 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.080 what the amount is, and then from there you can 0:17:56.119 --> 0:18:01.320 decide does this seem objectively speaking, this scene normal? Because 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:03.680 anybody's going to maybe think that they should reduce their 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.760 drinking or have thoughts and feelings about it when they're 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.280 experiencing a hangover, Right, that's going to be emotionally driven. 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.160 But when you can get that data on that baseline 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.280 understanding of your pattern, then you can start to look 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:20.240 and say is this normal? The CDC says it recommends 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.080 no more than one drink for women no more than 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.200 two drinks for men as being what they would call normal. 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.840 And so it's like, do I abide by that naturally? 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.000 Am I even hitting that norm or below? And if 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.920 you find that you're averaging two each time you drink, 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.080 then you can already know that, hey, maybe it's something 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.800 I need to further consider and ask other questions. I 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.480 would also say, in this tracking, you can also understand 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.720 what tends to coincide with your drinking, like is it 0:18:47.760 --> 0:18:50.520 a stressful week? Have you been going through a breakup? 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.320 Are you experiencing grief? So you might even do like 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.960 a mood log alongside, like when I am choosing to drink, 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.920 how am I typically feeling? Are these celebratory moments? Are 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.240 these isolated moments by myself where I'm dealing with a 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.120 mental health challenge? And then from there you can start 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:11.160 to better understand that emotional connection between the two. 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.560 So thinking about like the larger conversation around the wellness space, 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:17.960 I think that's something else that we have seen is 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:21.400 an increase in things that are like non alcoholic beverages 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.680 right or infused in other ways. I see you take 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.680 a little bit of a deep red there, So I. 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:28.760 Would lovelies about it. 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.040 I want to hit these feelings because I feel like 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.240 I don't quite know enough to know, like, Okay, where 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.959 do I really stand here? And so are you feeling 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:40.439 like these are helpful substitutes? Are they pretty neutral? Or 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:42.480 is this something that you also want to be paying 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:45.200 attention to, like your relationship to these other dreams. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.480 Yeah, I think definitely paying attention to. I don't think 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:52.359 it's neutral, and I will argue anybody down about that 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:55.920 clinically or personally. And I think it's important to say 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.480 that for most people that I do think that how 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:03.560 we're related, and it's again, it's the substance, it's the association, 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.200 it's the lifestyle itself too, you know what I mean. 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.119 So we can be addicted to anything, so it's not 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:11.679 about the substance itself all the time. It's about our 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:15.919 relationship and our engagement with it. And so for me, 0:20:16.200 --> 0:20:18.560 I think that it's important for everyone to assume that 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:20.720 it's not neutral. Maybe it ends up being something that 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:22.720 you can take or leave and there's nothing there, But 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:25.880 don't go in assuming that it's harmless when it may 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:30.520 actually have other implications for you. And so I struggle 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.240 with this question because there's different schools of thought and 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:36.719 there's like my personal experience with it, my professional experience 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.640 with helping people figure it out. And because the gray 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:42.359 area is so great, it does take time to figure 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:46.280 out what side of this youly on as far as 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:49.760 if alcohol is serving you well at all or if 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:53.119 you should abstain completely. And so when it comes to 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:56.840 the mocktails and the spirit free drinks and that sort 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.680 of thing, it's important to know that there's a difference 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:04.560 in those two drinks. They're not mutually exclusive. So mocktails 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.520 are my understanding and how I'd like to share with 0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:11.400 the audiences. Mocktails are drinks that have flavor to them, 0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:14.560 have a different texture to them, like carbonation and that 0:21:14.640 --> 0:21:17.679 sort of thing. They might have different tea's, different herbs 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:20.080 in them to get them flavor, but they may not 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:24.400 necessarily have an alcoholic alternative in them. So you might 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.000 have cranberry, you might have mint, you might have some lemon, 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:31.800 you might have a little decorative something with some club soda, okay, 0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:35.240 but there are also other drinks where there's a spirit 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:39.120