1 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 2 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 6 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 7 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 8 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 9 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 10 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 11 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: for joining me for session four fifty seven of the 12 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our 13 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:15,840 Speaker 1: conversation after word from our sponsors. At the start of 14 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: a new year, it's coming to see people vow to 15 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: take a month long break from alcohol. But as research 16 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 1: continues to uncover the tool that alcohol can take on 17 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: our overall health Dry January, he has evolved from a 18 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: yearly challenge into a full on lifestyle change towards mindful drinking. 19 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: Now a lot more of us are seeing what does 20 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: it look like to invite more sober moments into everyday life. 21 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: This is where the idea of sober curiosity comes in. 22 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: It's not about adopting a complete anti alcohol mindset, but 23 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: about looking at it as more of an option rather 24 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: than a necessity. So whether you want to swap your 25 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: cocktail or a mocktail occasionally, or fully shift your habits, 26 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: the journey can look different for everyone. Here to dive 27 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: into exploring sober curiosity with us as our returning Kristin 28 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: Fiememster as a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified 29 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: personal trainer. She aims for wellness in both physical and 30 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: mental health in her work. Today we chat about what 31 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: sober curiosity really means and why this movement is resonating 32 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: so deeply for so many of us. We also talked 33 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: about practical ways to step into sober curiosity and how 34 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,840 Speaker 1: to build a lifestyle that feels sustainable and rewarding for 35 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: your overall well being. If something resonates with you while 36 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on social 37 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: media using the hashtag tpg in session, or join us 38 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: over in our patreons and talk more about the episode. 39 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: You can join us at community dot therapy for Blackgirls 40 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: dot Com. Here's our conversation. It's so good to see 41 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: you again, Kristin. 42 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: Yes, it's nice to see you as well. 43 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for coming back to chat 44 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: with me. So, I have been seeing a term that 45 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: has been you online and maybe even in clients are gos. 46 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,360 Speaker 1: I'm guessing maybe you have seen this in your practice 47 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: as well, sober curious, which feels like a newer term. 48 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: So what is that? What do you think people are 49 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: referring to when they talk about being sober curious? 50 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: Yes, I do think that sober curious is a new term, 51 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 2: a movement. I guess you could call it of people 52 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: who are basically reevaluating their relationship with alcohol, Like maybe 53 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 2: they don't feel like their habits are to the extreme, 54 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 2: but they're still wanting to just take a more curious 55 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 2: look at how it's showing up in their life and 56 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 2: so taking the steps to reduce their intake or to 57 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 2: stain for a period of time just to understand more 58 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: about how it shows up for them. 59 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: And when you've been on the podcast previously, you've talked 60 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: about your sobriety journey, right, so it has been probably 61 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: tenuous plus since you have been sober. Can you talk 62 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: about what was going on in your life then when 63 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: you started to think, like I need to reevaluate my 64 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: own relationship with alcohol. 65 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: Yes, so I'm eleven years, eleven years and some change. 66 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 2: So we are grateful for that journey. Every day I 67 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: have a different and maybe we'll talk about this so 68 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: today too. You know, I had a different experience of 69 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: coming to realize my relationship with alcohol. But I do 70 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: think that there were some moments in time early on, 71 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 2: maybe before it actually became a problem for me, that 72 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 2: I was I don't know if curious is the word, 73 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: but questioning for sure how I was using it, What 74 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 2: were the triggers I guess you could say that would 75 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 2: lead me to drinking more or drinking less, or the environment, 76 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: that sort of thing, things that I just started to notice. 77 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 2: And so I think for me that journey has really 78 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: just been about journey. Early on was really just about 79 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 2: coming to terms with is this still fun? I think 80 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 2: we start to have more of a party lifestyle and 81 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 2: do things in a more social way. And I think 82 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 2: that through my sober curious portion of my journey, I 83 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: realized that I was functioning or using it in a 84 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: way trying to get back to something that had all 85 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 2: long past, which was the fun and the lighthearted, vironrant 86 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: part of just living life and maybe having a few drinks. 87 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 2: It started to take a turn for me, and I 88 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 2: think that's where I started to explore, you know, how 89 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 2: much am I actually drinking and it's this actually fun? 90 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 2: Am I just keeping it to social settings? Or do 91 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 2: I find that I'm drinking more in isolation? And how 92 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 2: do I feel when I wake up the next morning? 93 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: Am I able to function for my next day? Or 94 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 2: is this really impacting the way I'm able to show 95 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,719 Speaker 2: up my career and my relationships and that sort of thing. 96 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 2: And so that questioning began my own journey to realizing 97 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 2: that it was time to take a long break from 98 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 2: it for myself. 99 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think what you're talking about, and even the 100 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 1: fact that there is this conversation around sober curiosity right like, 101 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: speaks to this shift in our relationship to alcohol and 102 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: just societally what we think about alcohol. I think historically 103 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: it has felt like it was pretty harmless, you know, 104 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,720 Speaker 1: it's something that everybody does, like it's okay to have 105 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: a few drinks. And it feels like we are now 106 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: looking at it much more seriously as a substance that 107 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: can be harmful depending on the quantities. Can talk a 108 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: little bit about like where we find ourselves, and like 109 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: the movement towards people really reevaluating their relationship to this substance. 110 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 2: I think that health trends. I hope that this one's 111 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 2: here to stay, and I hope I feel like similar 112 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 2: to how cigarettes has shifted for good as far as 113 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 2: how we cigarettes used to be a thing, you know, 114 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 2: like a fun, social, advertised marketed thing for a long time, 115 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 2: and then within recent years the advertisement and the culture 116 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 2: around it has changed. So I hope that something similar 117 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: is happening with alcohol, to really see the genuine impact 118 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: of it as being a substance, as being a toxin 119 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 2: for the body, and maybe some of the negative impacts 120 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: that we experience, such as hangovers and headaches and that 121 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 2: sort of thing, is from the impact of that. I 122 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: hope that it is here to stay. But I also 123 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 2: know that we are also experiencing an uptick in people 124 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: aware of their mental health, people pursuing fitness in a 125 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 2: balance way, people pursuing longevity in their health, and so 126 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: I think those two components are coming together to have 127 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: people realizing, particularly the mental health awareness, because I don't 128 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: think we've always if anything, maybe alcohol has been seen 129 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: as a way to escape your problems and to feel better. 130 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: But now we're starting to realize that, hey, that actually 131 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 2: makes anxiety worse, that actually exacerbates my depression symptoms, and 132 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 2: so maybe I don't necessarily need to just automatically buy 133 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: into the social culture of it. And so collectively, I 134 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 2: think we're starting to look at longevity and look a 135 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: little deeper underneath the surface as far as wellness is concerned, 136 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 2: and so alcohol being so prominent, it makes perfect sense 137 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: that it would be the first thing that we would 138 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 2: start to look at and be like, and why are 139 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: we doing this so much on our weekends in our 140 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: social lives. 141 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: It's interesting that you point to wellness because I definitely know, 142 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: of course the mental and physical health, But you're right, 143 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: like the larger conversations around wellness I think are shining 144 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: a light on what we are doing with substances. Can 145 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: you talk about maybe some of those early symptoms like 146 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: sleep or the physical impact that alcohol can have, Like 147 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: some of those very early symptoms that might be a 148 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: sign that you want to explore your relationship to substances. 149 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 2: What we know about alcohol is that it's a diuretic, 150 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 2: and so it's also a toxin to the body. And 151 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: so when we adjust alcohol, our body, although we get 152 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 2: a bus or whatever feel good feelings we have, our 153 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: body is trying to get rid of it as soon 154 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: as possible. And so a lot of types people will 155 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: notice as soon as I start drinking, I can't stay 156 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: out of the bathroom, going to the bathroom over and 157 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 2: over again. It's actually your body trying to flush what 158 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 2: you put in it out, and that typically for most people, 159 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 2: if you're not careful with your water and your electrolytes 160 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 2: while you're drinking, can lead to dehydration. So a lot 161 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 2: of the symptoms that people notice are symptoms of dehydration, headaches, 162 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 2: mental fog, dry mouth, different things like that. Nausea, vomiting 163 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: even can still be related to that. And when it 164 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 2: comes to sleep, sometimes people think that alcohol is actually 165 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 2: helping them to sleep, and although you are not awake anymore, 166 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: it's not necessarily the healthiest version of sleep, and so 167 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 2: it does depress your central nervous system, but that's only 168 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: a temporary that's not a rim sleep, a healthy sleep state. 169 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: It's more of a coming into and out of consciousness, 170 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: and so for a lot of people, they feel like, oh, 171 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 2: a glass of wine or something at night, it really 172 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 2: helps me to go to sleep. But then I don't 173 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: know the exact numbers with studies, but studies will show 174 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 2: that sleep is not exactly RESTful as it would have 175 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 2: been had they gotten the same amount sober and so 176 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of misconceptions around that that 177 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 2: people are starting to realize when you again pay attention, 178 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 2: when there's an increase in conversation around it, there's an 179 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 2: awareness that comes in and then you're able to assess 180 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 2: how am I actually sleeping? Do I actually feel rested 181 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 2: in the morning, no one went to sleep, do I 182 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 2: wake up rested? Is actually the question I think for 183 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 2: me in my younger days, hangovers was just a part 184 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: of the norm. But now it's like, but do I 185 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 2: want to be hungover every Saturday morning or do I 186 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 2: want to have a different experience? And so I think 187 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 2: a lot of people are noticing that for themselves and 188 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: deciding to make a shift. 189 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned the misconception, and I think another misconception 190 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: around like alcohol and sobriety is that you have to 191 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: hit rock bottom before you start to like, seriously look 192 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: at your relationship to alcohol. Can you address that and 193 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 1: talk about why that may be a misconception. 194 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 2: Yes, so that is a common misconception rooted in like 195 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 2: the extremes of addiction and how it's been depicted. I 196 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 2: think to us and really, maybe you know, because we 197 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 2: haven't had conversations about what I like to call gray 198 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 2: area drinking. We usually don't come to understand an addiction 199 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 2: until we can visibly see it in someone's life, whether 200 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 2: it be their health, they're losing their job, losing their family, 201 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 2: then we could observe, oh, that addiction has caused them 202 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: those issues, right, And so that really leads out a 203 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: whole pool of people who are also consuming alcohol at 204 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 2: varying levels, but they just haven't hit that typical stereotypical 205 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 2: be homeless, isolated individual's lifestyle to really recognize it. And 206 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 2: so when it comes to the gift we have, I 207 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: guess now with having more conversations around our relationship with alcohols, 208 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 2: that we really can stop ourselves sooner. Whether it be 209 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 2: because you have know so physical dependence that hasn't necessarily 210 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 2: caused a lot of intense consequences, or if you find 211 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: yourself on the other side of the spectrum where you're 212 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 2: just not really sure why you're engaging with it. We 213 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 2: actually have the opportunity to not wait until it's that bad, 214 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 2: to actually start exploring yet and pulling ourselves back. I 215 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: would consider myself to be one of those people, and 216 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 2: that I got sober at twenty six, which was unheard 217 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 2: of at the time. But you're so young, you could 218 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: just you know, you don't want to just try and 219 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 2: see if you can manage it or whatever. And I 220 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: just decided this is probably the best chance I'm going 221 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 2: to have to address this and to live a full, 222 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 2: vibrant life is right now. And so I also think 223 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 2: that there were a lot more consequences that I could 224 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: have it probably would have experienced had I kept drinking, 225 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: But because of a healthy support system and knowing a 226 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 2: little bit about addiction already, I was able to gather 227 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 2: that together to take care of it sooner later. 228 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: Christ then you mentioned the term gray area drinking, and 229 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: I feel like we've talked a little bit about like 230 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 1: how alcohol has been socially acceptable and it's okay to 231 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: have a couple of drinks with friends, are happy hours right, 232 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 1: Like it really is like very it has become a 233 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: thing in so many of our lives, very pervasive, without 234 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: I think us even paying attention. And it feels like 235 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: there is a lot that has happened in pop culture 236 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: that has also normalized this idea of having a glass 237 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,160 Speaker 1: of wine to relax, Like this is what I deserve 238 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 1: after a very difficult day. Right, So I think about 239 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: like Olivia Poope and her classic red wieline right with 240 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 1: the white couch, Well, I hate yeah, how to get 241 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: Away with Murder? Like it very much has been like 242 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: an idea that this is something that's very normal. What 243 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: do you think about like the ways that alcohol has 244 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: been glamorized in some ways and really connected to like 245 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: stress relief and how that leads to maybe this great 246 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:15,120 Speaker 1: area drinking. 247 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a challenge. It's a challenge I think in 248 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 2: sobriety and as a clinician that works with people who 249 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 2: where it gets complicated and you can really see how 250 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 2: people wrestle with is this normal or is this a 251 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 2: problem for me? I get frustrated with the way alcohol 252 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 2: is marketed and just the lifestyle of it. I can't 253 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 2: help but see commercials during the Super Bowl or there's 254 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 2: a commercial with a beer right now, that is kind 255 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 2: of alluding to a guy having a better chance dating 256 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 2: a girl if you bring strengths over to her. And anyway, 257 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: you could just read into the underlying messages and a 258 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 2: lot of the marketing that we're fed and so sometimes 259 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 2: I don't even think we're actually choosing to participate into 260 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 2: the lifestyle. In a lot of ways have gotten conditioned 261 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 2: by way of commercial here an event there. Even in 262 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 2: the wellness space, I've sometimes seen wellness activities paired with 263 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 2: drinking when I think it's a way to try to 264 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 2: market and try to get as many people as possible 265 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 2: to see this as fun and inviting and a place 266 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 2: to socialize, and then in participating in that that becomes 267 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 2: the norm. So then maybe we seek them out more 268 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: than we actually should and center it in our lives 269 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 2: more than we actually should. But I think we could 270 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 2: also talk about how big alcohol is a I'm sure 271 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: a billion dollar company, and so anything that's going to 272 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: make money is going to be pushed on us, whether 273 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 2: the consequences of that are positive or negative for us personally. 274 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: So just being aware of those things at play and 275 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 2: having those conversations can really help us shift the. 276 00:14:46,280 --> 00:15:00,200 Speaker 1: Narrative more from our conversation after the break, you know 277 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: a lot about like the more we hear about like 278 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: loneliness and epidemic, especially male loneliness, although we know generally 279 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: people are lonely in the continuing stresses where we find 280 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: ourselves post pandemic, just the state of the world right like, 281 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: I think it's led to a lot of stress and 282 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,120 Speaker 1: people looking at alcohol as a way to relieve that stress. 283 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: Have you been having conversations or seeing things generally in 284 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: your circles around like increase alcohol consumption related to all 285 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: of these stressors I have. 286 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 2: I think naturally just for me personally getting sober early, 287 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 2: I think my awareness of what that's looked like and 288 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: conversations has kind of given me a clearer lens for 289 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: what I'm hearing from my own personal relationships or the 290 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 2: clients or with the collective. I definitely saw an increase 291 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 2: in I think when the pandemic came. I think everybody 292 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 2: was just sincere panic emotionally on how to cope with 293 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: something like that. And I do remember seeing a major 294 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 2: uptick in associating being able to stay and work from 295 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 2: home with drinking and letting loose and coping and rationalizing 296 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 2: the use of alcohol because of feeling out of control 297 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 2: and us not knowing what to expect and looking for 298 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 2: something to help us escape or feel better. I think 299 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 2: a lot of times around those stressors, we hear that 300 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 2: with mommy wine culture, we hear that a lot in 301 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 2: a lot of different ways. It just becomes normalized. And 302 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 2: when you're struggling, you don't want to always you never 303 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 2: actually want to feel judged, and so I think that 304 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 2: we then start to relate over the misery of it 305 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: through this coping skill that is ultimately not helping. But 306 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 2: I see that a lot with mommy culture, we can 307 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 2: bond and we can relate on our similarities here and 308 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 2: have this common coping for the relief of it and 309 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: the bonding that it promotes. And so it's definitely a 310 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: slippery slope of what's normal and what's not normal, because 311 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 2: everyone doesn't necessarily need to live a sober lifestyle. But 312 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: anytime you're associating drinking with those emotional chile lenges, I 313 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 2: think that it's a slippery slope for future issues. 314 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: So I'd love to stay there for a second. Because 315 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 1: you mentioned even earlier that when you were considering becoming sober, 316 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: like there were people like, oh, you're so young, is 317 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: this something that you really want to do? And so 318 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,359 Speaker 1: for people who are thinking like, Okay, I'm not quite sure, 319 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: like I'm on the sober forever train, but I do 320 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 1: want to reevaluate or become more mindful around my relationship 321 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: to alcohol. Where should they start? What kinds of questions 322 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: should they be asking themselves? 323 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: Well, first, I recommend getting an understanding of how much 324 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 2: you're drinking as is. I think if you're just living 325 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 2: life and assuming that, oh, I think I'm drinking too 326 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 2: much when I'm not exactly sure, I say, go ahead 327 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 2: and get the data. Go ahead and get the data, 328 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 2: and track you're drinking for a month, track you're drinking. 329 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 2: Some people for a week, they might have the information 330 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 2: they need. But track you're drinking to see what patterns 331 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: you notice, to see what the frequency is, to see 332 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 2: what the amount is, and then from there you can 333 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 2: decide does this seem objectively speaking, this scene normal? Because 334 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 2: anybody's going to maybe think that they should reduce their 335 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 2: drinking or have thoughts and feelings about it when they're 336 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 2: experiencing a hangover, Right, that's going to be emotionally driven. 337 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 2: But when you can get that data on that baseline 338 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: understanding of your pattern, then you can start to look 339 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 2: and say is this normal? The CDC says it recommends 340 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 2: no more than one drink for women no more than 341 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 2: two drinks for men as being what they would call normal. 342 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 2: And so it's like, do I abide by that naturally? 343 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 2: Am I even hitting that norm or below? And if 344 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,920 Speaker 2: you find that you're averaging two each time you drink, 345 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: then you can already know that, hey, maybe it's something 346 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 2: I need to further consider and ask other questions. I 347 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 2: would also say, in this tracking, you can also understand 348 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 2: what tends to coincide with your drinking, like is it 349 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 2: a stressful week? Have you been going through a breakup? 350 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 2: Are you experiencing grief? So you might even do like 351 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 2: a mood log alongside, like when I am choosing to drink, 352 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 2: how am I typically feeling? Are these celebratory moments? Are 353 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 2: these isolated moments by myself where I'm dealing with a 354 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 2: mental health challenge? And then from there you can start 355 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 2: to better understand that emotional connection between the two. 356 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: So thinking about like the larger conversation around the wellness space, 357 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: I think that's something else that we have seen is 358 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: an increase in things that are like non alcoholic beverages 359 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: right or infused in other ways. I see you take 360 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: a little bit of a deep red there, So I. 361 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 2: Would lovelies about it. 362 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: I want to hit these feelings because I feel like 363 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: I don't quite know enough to know, like, Okay, where 364 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,959 Speaker 1: do I really stand here? And so are you feeling 365 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: like these are helpful substitutes? Are they pretty neutral? Or 366 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: is this something that you also want to be paying 367 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: attention to, like your relationship to these other dreams. 368 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think definitely paying attention to. I don't think 369 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 2: it's neutral, and I will argue anybody down about that 370 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 2: clinically or personally. And I think it's important to say 371 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 2: that for most people that I do think that how 372 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 2: we're related, and it's again, it's the substance, it's the association, 373 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 2: it's the lifestyle itself too, you know what I mean. 374 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 2: So we can be addicted to anything, so it's not 375 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,679 Speaker 2: about the substance itself all the time. It's about our 376 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:15,919 Speaker 2: relationship and our engagement with it. And so for me, 377 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 2: I think that it's important for everyone to assume that 378 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 2: it's not neutral. Maybe it ends up being something that 379 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 2: you can take or leave and there's nothing there, But 380 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,880 Speaker 2: don't go in assuming that it's harmless when it may 381 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 2: actually have other implications for you. And so I struggle 382 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 2: with this question because there's different schools of thought and 383 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,719 Speaker 2: there's like my personal experience with it, my professional experience 384 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 2: with helping people figure it out. And because the gray 385 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 2: area is so great, it does take time to figure 386 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 2: out what side of this youly on as far as 387 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 2: if alcohol is serving you well at all or if 388 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 2: you should abstain completely. And so when it comes to 389 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 2: the mocktails and the spirit free drinks and that sort 390 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 2: of thing, it's important to know that there's a difference 391 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 2: in those two drinks. They're not mutually exclusive. So mocktails 392 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 2: are my understanding and how I'd like to share with 393 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 2: the audiences. Mocktails are drinks that have flavor to them, 394 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 2: have a different texture to them, like carbonation and that 395 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 2: sort of thing. They might have different tea's, different herbs 396 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 2: in them to get them flavor, but they may not 397 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 2: necessarily have an alcoholic alternative in them. So you might 398 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 2: have cranberry, you might have mint, you might have some lemon, 399 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 2: you might have a little decorative something with some club soda, okay, 400 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: but there are also other drinks where there's a spirit 401 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,120 Speaker 2: free liquor involved. So whether it be a vodka, tequila, 402 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 2: a gin, there's actually big alcohol. Companies are creating their 403 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 2: own version of liquors basically that have a very very 404 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 2: small percentage of alcohol content. And so if you look 405 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 2: at some of those bottles, you'll see where it might 406 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 2: be advertised as alcohol free, but if you look at 407 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 2: the back, you know where the nutritional value is, you 408 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 2: might see where it's as it actually contains point zero 409 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 2: five percent alcohol. And so those to me are not 410 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 2: necessarily traditional mark tails like you would think this is 411 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 2: completely alcohol free. Those drinks still have alcohol in them. 412 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 2: And so when it comes to deciding whether you are 413 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 2: super curious and just wanting to scale back for health reasons, 414 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 2: weight loss reasons, maybe you're studying for something you just 415 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 2: really want to lock in and focus, versus if you 416 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 2: have more of a problem drinking, I think that's a 417 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 2: big distinction to make as far as these drinks may 418 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 2: still have alcohol content in them, and so is that 419 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 2: really abstaining, Is that really allowing myself to have a 420 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 2: dry period? Or is that more of what we might 421 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 2: talk about in clinical terms being a harm reduction type 422 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 2: of approach rather than an abstin in space type of reproach. 423 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 2: And so I think it's important for people to be 424 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 2: informed about that because I think I've even had a 425 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 2: friend by alcohol free champagne for me one time, and 426 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,399 Speaker 2: she was like, yeah, I bought this for you. I 427 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 2: thought it was great, it was super cute. You could 428 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: do that and we'll have our regular champagne. I flipped 429 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 2: over to the nutritional facts on the back and I 430 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 2: was like, actually, this actually still has alcoholic She said, 431 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I didn't even realize that that was 432 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 2: a thing. And so I think it's good to be 433 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 2: informed on that to know what's best for you. 434 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm curious, Kristen. There it feels like they're 435 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: also like these class of drinks that are made with 436 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: maybe different kinds of like herbs or like plants, or 437 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: like maybe some of them more like THHC infuse. 438 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:29,679 Speaker 2: Would usually that. 439 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: And I have not looked enough to know even like 440 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: what's on the back of those if there is like 441 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: still some small percentage of alcohol there is that in 442 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: the same class, or is that like a separate class 443 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: of like in between my kills and you know, zero 444 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: point five percent spirit something. 445 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 2: Doctor Joy, I don't know. It's a lot. It's a lot. 446 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 2: And that's what happens when you have trends is that 447 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: it's like it starts in one way if then you know, 448 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 2: everyone puts their spin on it, and then it becomes 449 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: something else. And so for me, I go back to key. 450 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 2: It's simple. If you're wanting to take a break from alcohol. Gosh, 451 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 2: there's so many things to get into with this, but 452 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,199 Speaker 2: the idea of how alcohol shows up, it's physical and 453 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 2: it's emotional, and so it's not just about removing the 454 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 2: alcohol physically, it's about not using substances to manage your 455 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 2: emotions and dealing with life, you know what I mean. So, 456 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 2: in my opinion, and what I would probably recommend for anybody, 457 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 2: especially on the front end, give yourself a chance to 458 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 2: really experience what abstinence feels like. And then down the road, 459 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 2: if you decide that you want to experiment with something else, 460 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 2: you can do that from an informed place on what 461 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 2: sobriety actually feels like for you, and then as opposed 462 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 2: to doing it the other way, and then you don't 463 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,959 Speaker 2: know whether you don't crave alcohol anymore because you're drinking 464 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 2: this drink with THHC in it, or because you actually 465 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 2: can kind of muddy the water and make things more complicated. 466 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 2: So getting to my point of we have to understand 467 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 2: that part of this work is about being able to 468 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 2: sit with your emotions and manage your mental health in 469 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 2: a different way and doing that substance free, doing that 470 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 2: alcohol free. So to replace alcohol with another type of 471 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 2: substance it's mood altering, could potentially be getting in the 472 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 2: way of your original intent. And so I think that's 473 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: a conversation to have and a realization to come to 474 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 2: for yourself, Like why am I struggling to just have 475 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 2: a sober experience? Why do I feel like a little 476 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 2: of this and a little of that have a small 477 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: percentage of that it's necessary for me to actually do this. 478 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 2: I think that could lead to a whole other category 479 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 2: of questions around your relationship overall. 480 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned, you know, like that anything really could 481 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: become addictive, right, And so I think that that is 482 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: something to pay attention to if this is something you 483 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: struggled with, right, Like this idea that you might not 484 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: even be replacing your alcohol behavior with another substance, But 485 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: are you not replacing it with shopping or online scrolling 486 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: or right? Can you talk about like the need to 487 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: pay attention to everything that might be happening where you 488 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: might just be substituting one addiction or addictive behavior for another. 489 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that first and foremost. With my clients, 490 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 2: I try to tell them that you're human. You're a 491 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 2: human being dealing with get and sitting with your emotions 492 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 2: all at one time. When you've been used to coping 493 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 2: in a certain way, it's going to be hard. So 494 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 2: give yourself grace, Give yourself grace with this. In a 495 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 2: lot of time, when people are taking a break from alcohol, 496 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,399 Speaker 2: they might notice that their sugar cravings go up. Because 497 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 2: alcohol is a sugar when it's broken down the body, 498 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 2: it has the same function in some ways in the body, 499 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 2: and so once you reduce that have it you might 500 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 2: find I think I'm craving something sweet more than I 501 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 2: used to, and so you may notice that and may 502 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,920 Speaker 2: need to be mindful of that as well. But giving 503 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 2: yourself grace and time to figure out what that is 504 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 2: and to not be too too hard on yourself. But 505 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 2: I think ultimately, the concept and the mindset that you 506 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 2: have to wrap your head around is that I'm doing 507 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 2: this in order to live life on life's terms more 508 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 2: and to experience what it's like to deal with my emotion, 509 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 2: to deal with my life, to practice new skills in 510 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 2: a way that alcohol wasn't really allowing me to do. 511 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,120 Speaker 2: And so when I removed the alcohol, it's not about 512 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 2: replacing it with another compulsive, feel good dopamine kick, but 513 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 2: also maybe building out some other skills, some other hobbies, 514 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 2: some other outlets, some other supports, so that you don't 515 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,159 Speaker 2: fall into the trap of overly consuming social media or 516 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 2: overly consuming television, or overly consuming anything, because again that's 517 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 2: still the lifestyle of chasing something to feel better other 518 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 2: rather than just sitting in your experience. 519 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: You know, because I'm really curious to hear how this 520 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: might look in like the therapist's office, because we know 521 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: clients come in with like their checklist of things that 522 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 1: brings them to therapy, right, Like maybe it's communication, maybe 523 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: it's stress management, whatever. But if you are working with 524 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 1: a client and you recognize, like, huh, there's something going 525 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: on here, I feel like as a clinician around alcohol, right, 526 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: but that is not an express concern for them. How 527 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: might or would you introduce that as something to pay 528 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: attention to with a client if that's not something they 529 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 1: bring in as a concern for them. 530 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 2: Is there a way to do that? 531 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: And that doesn't feel like judging? 532 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I do, I do. I think for me, I 533 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,480 Speaker 2: kind of get a different I get a different experience 534 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 2: of that because I am public with my sobriety. So 535 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 2: a lot of my clients are aware that I'm sober, 536 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 2: and so they sometimes feel more inclined to have those 537 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 2: conversations or even seek me out because they know that 538 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 2: I have that background. So it does make having that 539 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 2: authority of gently mentioning it a little bit easier because 540 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 2: of that commonality or that understanding already. But I try 541 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 2: to work to question. We're not going to scapegoat anybody's 542 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 2: use over anything else, but start to do some motivational 543 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 2: interviewing and some questioning, just like I would do anything 544 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 2: that seems to be a problem, maybe helping them to 545 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 2: see a pattern in something. And it may take a while. 546 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 2: I say, in my personal and professional spaces, I have 547 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 2: experience having to wait for someone to come to their 548 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 2: own understanding of that, and that may take months, that 549 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 2: may take years. But what I'll do in the therapy 550 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 2: room is try to help them figure out what's the 551 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 2: pattern here? Okay, this happens, Okay, now tell me more 552 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,239 Speaker 2: about once the stressor trigger or something kids than what 553 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 2: you do, Well, that's when. And if it's not alcohols, 554 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 2: a lot of times it's food that I help my 555 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 2: clients with too, And they'll say, well, and then that's 556 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 2: when I end up drinking to feel better. And I 557 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 2: was like, okay, well, how long do you feel better for? 558 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: And then they'll say, oh, you know, a couple of hours, 559 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 2: and then I end up going to sleep and I'll 560 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 2: wake up the next day. I'll just ask more questions 561 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 2: out of curiosity about how that substance or whatever that 562 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 2: behavior is, just like we would with any other behavior, 563 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 2: to help bring it more gradually into the conversation, and 564 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 2: through that they may come to a realization. I noticed 565 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 2: that every time we do this, maybe I might even asked, 566 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 2: what are you noticing any consistencies between these three different 567 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,360 Speaker 2: events that we've discussed over the last couple of sessions. 568 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 2: Give them a chance to mention, and then I say, meg, 569 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 2: if it's all right, Can I share with you what 570 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 2: I'm seeing, and then I might find a way to 571 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 2: say I'm noticing that typically alcohol is involved in these 572 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 2: situations that you're having. Have you noticed that? Have you 573 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 2: thought about that? And that usually leads to a larger 574 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 2: conversation and a lot of times clients are already considered 575 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 2: exploring it, and so it can sometimes be helpful to 576 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 2: go ahead and lead them in that direction and break 577 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 2: the ice. 578 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: Something you've mentioned a couple of times is that a 579 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: lot of this work is around like sitting with your emotions. Right, 580 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: Like that, we are often turning to alcohol or some 581 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 1: other substance or activity because we're running from something or 582 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: not wanting to sit with something. What does that actually 583 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: look like? 584 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 2: Like? 585 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: What kinds of skills are you sharing or teaching clients 586 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,400 Speaker 1: around how to actually sit with whatever this discomfort is 587 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: so that they are not turning to alcohol. 588 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 2: What I typically start with is trying to help my 589 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 2: clients to name how they're feeling a lot of times 590 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 2: we'll have like a physical sensation of appointment or missing someone, 591 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 2: or grief or anger or depression, but we're not quite 592 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 2: able to give it language, and so I walk them 593 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 2: through the naming of using the feelings will look at 594 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,240 Speaker 2: all feelings will to help them connect with how they're 595 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 2: feeling physically with an emotion, you know. And once they 596 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 2: get in the habit of being able to recognize that 597 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 2: when I feel this in my chest, and when I 598 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 2: feel this ache over my right shoulder, you know, whatever 599 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 2: their indicators are, that usually lets me know that I'm 600 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 2: frustrated about something. And then once they understand that aspect, 601 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 2: we go into their skills of and what usually helps 602 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 2: me in that moment. We practice deep breathing. I go 603 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 2: for a walk, I journal, I call my friend, I 604 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,760 Speaker 2: sit and I let myself cry. I know that when 605 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: I feel that way, I need to release and let 606 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 2: myself be sad. Find out a lot of my clients 607 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: have a hard time eating in session, just letting themselves 608 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 2: sob and just really emotionally release. And then once they 609 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 2: do that the challenges they're having around something. It doesn't 610 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 2: take the issue away, but it just allows them to 611 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 2: kind of come back up to a more manageable place 612 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 2: where they can navigate it. And so, if you are 613 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 2: feeling some sort of way in your body because of 614 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 2: a stressful work day or an argument, and then you 615 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,840 Speaker 2: reach for alcohol, which is suppressing all of that. You 616 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 2: never really get to learn what that emotion feels like 617 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 2: and what it looks like to work through it in 618 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 2: another way. But oftentimes it's just letting to yourselfself cry. 619 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 2: A lot of times when clients have not really allowed 620 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 2: themselves to naturally like maybe they've solved after a few drinks, 621 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 2: but it hasn't been like a natural emoting situation where 622 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 2: they've allowed themselves to grieve something or to be sad 623 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 2: about something. And so sometimes because simply be practicing that 624 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 2: in session, We're not going to do anything else but 625 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 2: just let you let your tears fall and see how 626 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 2: you feel in about ten minutes and I'll hold space 627 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 2: with them five ten minutes and just let them feel 628 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 2: what they need to and then we debriefit afterwards. 629 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: You were talking earlier, Kristin, you mentioned that at some 630 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: point in the work you might move to a more 631 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: harm reduction strategy as opposed to like complete sobariety, which 632 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 1: it feels like maybe this sober curious kind of language 633 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: falls with and can you talk more about harm reduction 634 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: and like when you might have that kind of conversation 635 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:16,959 Speaker 1: with a client. 636 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, harm reduction For those who don't know, harm reduction 637 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 2: is a clinical term that we use primarily not only 638 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 2: in treatment centers, but primarily in treatment centers or as 639 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 2: a as an alternative for helping with the high risk 640 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,239 Speaker 2: behaviors that are around addiction. And so, for example, if 641 00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 2: we're talking about someone with a drug problem that is 642 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 2: using fitanol or heroine or something, that might be a 643 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 2: harm reduction practice might be to give them controversial but 644 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 2: to give them clean needles instead of them using ones 645 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 2: that could maybe spread disease and that sort of thing. 646 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 2: And so in the concept of exploring your relationship with alcohol, 647 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 2: if you've been drinking for drinks when you go out 648 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:04,480 Speaker 2: with friends, this harm reduction approach could be about reducing 649 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 2: that to two and then supplementing the other ones with 650 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,640 Speaker 2: the mocktail so that you can still have whatever social 651 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 2: lubricate you need as far as having a drink and 652 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 2: not feeling pressure to explain where you are your journey 653 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 2: and go too far into it, which sometimes can happen 654 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 2: in social settings. But you're also reducing the harm that's 655 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 2: causing to you to have four drinks in one sitting, 656 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 2: and that could tie into now you're not driving home. 657 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 2: If you've been driving, you can more so make healthier 658 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 2: decisions around how you handle your relationship with alcohol just 659 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:42,120 Speaker 2: by supplementing. But I will say that harm reduction isn't 660 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 2: a fix all for everybody, and so sometimes we can 661 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 2: justify or prolonged abstinence entertaining a harm reduction or just 662 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 2: management moderation type of approach when really it's time to 663 00:34:55,800 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 2: abstain and take ourselves out of straddling the fence on 664 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 2: our youth sober all. 665 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,320 Speaker 1: What's that line for you, Kristin, Maybe as a clinician 666 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:08,640 Speaker 1: and maybe even personally, if you think back to where 667 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: somebody is moving beyond just being mindful of their relationships 668 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,240 Speaker 1: to alcohol versus like this is now something more serious 669 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,760 Speaker 1: where we have to maybe get in treatment, impatient involved, 670 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: or like a higher level of care, Like what's that line? 671 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 2: When I think about the sober curious lifestyle, I think 672 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,720 Speaker 2: of it as being something light and fun and something 673 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,839 Speaker 2: to explore, you know what I mean, And something that 674 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 2: I'm not saying that it won't be hard, but there's 675 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 2: an element of ease it's supposed to come. You're supposed 676 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,480 Speaker 2: to be feeling better, doing better, moving better. All these 677 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 2: different things. And so if you find that you're really 678 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:48,040 Speaker 2: struggling with what that means for you to be sober 679 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 2: for a period of time, and you're not experiencing joy 680 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 2: and you're not maybe even if you are experiencing some 681 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 2: of the positive benefits, if you find emotionally you're not 682 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 2: enjoying it, then that might speak to your relationship with 683 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,760 Speaker 2: alcohol a little bit more like what it's been giving 684 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 2: you and what you've been using it for, And so 685 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 2: that could be an indicator. I would also say that 686 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 2: sometimes we might carry over the same behaviors into the 687 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 2: sober curious lifestyle. So let's say, for example, you are 688 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:19,399 Speaker 2: exploring sober curious lifestyle and you're going to try the mocktails, right, Well, 689 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 2: if you're still going into the same social environments and 690 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,360 Speaker 2: you're drinking four mocktails, there might be a sign that 691 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 2: there's still some preoccupations, some associations, something that that even 692 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 2: that just behavior is giving you, it's not going to 693 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 2: go away just because alcohol is in present, meaning that 694 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 2: if you add the alcohol back, that same type of 695 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 2: relationship is going to continue. So if you're finding it 696 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 2: hard to hold to your goal, say you set a 697 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 2: goal for thirty days and you find that by day fifteen, 698 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,240 Speaker 2: sixteen seventeen, you're like, okay, maybe i'll just make it fifteen, 699 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 2: and you're changing the goalposts. That could be another sign 700 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 2: that the sober curious journey, it's nothing wrong with it, 701 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 2: it's to gain it for me. So it's maybe just 702 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 2: assuming that it's telling you something more about how to 703 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 2: take it more seriously for yourself, right, And so it 704 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 2: could be that it could be if you're doing this 705 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,480 Speaker 2: two drinks, two normal drinks and then mixing in some mocktails, 706 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 2: if you find that that number, you start like bartering 707 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 2: that number, like say, okay, well maybe I'll just let 708 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 2: myself do three this time or maybe four this time, 709 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 2: and it keeps moving. I think that's another sign that 710 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,640 Speaker 2: your relationship with alcohol needs more attention. So anything that 711 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 2: is increasing the tolerance that you have, the amount and 712 00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 2: the frequency that you're engaging with either the mocktails or 713 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 2: regular drinks during this time, I think is something that 714 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,920 Speaker 2: would be at least a yellow flag, if not a 715 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 2: red flag. 716 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: More from our conversation after the break, I know the 717 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: last time that we tell on Kristen, and even today 718 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 1: you've talked about like support systems. How important that was 719 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: for you and just for anybody who's exploring sober curiosity 720 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,320 Speaker 1: or being sober or assident, all of those things. You 721 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,080 Speaker 1: if a friend comes to you and says, hey, you know, 722 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about becoming sober, I'm sober curious, I want 723 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: to do more exploration around my relationship to alcohol. What 724 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 1: does it look like to actually be a supportive friend? 725 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 2: I think that for my friends out there that are 726 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 2: wanting to be supportive, here's what I'll say is that 727 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 2: when someone is coming to you to talk about their 728 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 2: relationship with alcohol and sharing that information with you, that 729 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 2: means that they value your friendship and that they see 730 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,120 Speaker 2: you as a safe friend. And so the best thing 731 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,279 Speaker 2: you could do is embody that with your response, right, 732 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,880 Speaker 2: because it's hard to come and share vulnerably about a struggle. 733 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,879 Speaker 2: So someone's coming to you that's already speaking to how 734 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,480 Speaker 2: they see you and what they need from you, and 735 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 2: so avoid and stay away from judgment and guilty. I'm like, really, 736 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 2: you're gonna stop drinking before our birthday trip? How could 737 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 2: you like something like that? Keep that maybe you need 738 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 2: to grief some things about what your friend is. The 739 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 2: changes they're making maybe you need to, but don't put 740 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 2: that into that space. But they really see you as 741 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 2: a safe person. I would say, instead of judgment, instead 742 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 2: of guilting them around it, become curious yourself, like, okay, 743 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 2: well tell me more about how you came to this 744 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 2: conclusion and what does that look like for you. And 745 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 2: once you under have better understanding of that, you might 746 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 2: also try to support them in creating opportunities for you 747 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,760 Speaker 2: all to maintain your friendship that aren't surrounded by alcohol 748 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 2: or centered around alcohol. For example, I had a good 749 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 2: friend who had a birthday celebration and she did it 750 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 2: through a fitness class instead of a brunch with drinks, 751 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 2: and so she's currently not drinking. She knows that I'm sober. 752 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 2: I was like, this is perfect. I don't have to 753 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 2: worry about you know what I'm saying. I'm just in 754 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,760 Speaker 2: my environment. This is a great way to stay active, 755 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,600 Speaker 2: to have fun. We had music, we were moving, everything 756 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 2: else was good. It's just that alcohol was not the 757 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 2: center of that experience. And then the last thing I 758 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,320 Speaker 2: would say for friends is just celebrate your friend friends. 759 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,280 Speaker 2: If they tell you that, hey, I'm ten days sober, 760 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 2: thirty days sober, if they share a milestone with you, 761 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,320 Speaker 2: if they share anything that is moving them towards their goals, 762 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 2: even if you don't quite understand everything about it, celebrate 763 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 2: them because it's hard. It's hard to make that decision when, 764 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,840 Speaker 2: like we said, the world around you is promoting the 765 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:26,040 Speaker 2: alternative the other, and so be curious, create spaces for 766 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 2: them and celebrate them. 767 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: You know. One of the unfortunate things it feels like 768 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: that happens when somebody mentions that they are sober, is 769 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,400 Speaker 1: that there tends to be this like, oh my gosh, 770 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,440 Speaker 1: what a buzz killed. Oh I can't believe, Like you mentioned, like, oh, 771 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna do. 772 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 2: This before our birthday trip? Right? 773 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: What do you think that somebody else expressing their desire 774 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,760 Speaker 1: to be sober brings up such defensiveness in some people? 775 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:51,280 Speaker 2: I think because when you're drinking, it lowers your inditions. 776 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,280 Speaker 2: You know, you're not thinking with your brain fully online 777 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,319 Speaker 2: And so is it fun? Yeah, I mean we don't 778 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 2: have to make it seem like it's just all that. 779 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 2: I mean, there are some fun elements to letting loose 780 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,959 Speaker 2: and letting go and presumably being stress free for a moment. 781 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 2: That's why it catches a lot of people up right, 782 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,759 Speaker 2: so we can understand the grief around someone deciding to 783 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 2: do differently. But I also think that sometimes it can 784 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 2: hold up a mirror to things that person is not 785 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 2: there yet with And so sometimes it's like they can 786 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 2: even be supportive and but say yeah, but not for me, 787 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 2: or distance themselves, or they might outright say something. And 788 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 2: I think that might be something more of a projection 789 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,840 Speaker 2: of realizing that perhaps in a hypothetical scenario, without my 790 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 2: drinking buddy, now who am I going to drink with? 791 00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 2: Because I'm not ready to do that, to go down 792 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 2: that journey just yet. And so I think it can 793 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 2: come out of just being resistant to change. And so 794 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 2: by you changing, it's naturally going to change your friendships. 795 00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,560 Speaker 2: And so some of those friends may struggle with a 796 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,839 Speaker 2: change that they didn't necessarily opt into, and you might 797 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:57,799 Speaker 2: be hearing some of that frustration. 798 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: Isn't there any language that you can give our community 799 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: to borrow? Maybe you mentioned around and you find yourself 800 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: in situations where maybe you're with people who aren't really 801 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: close friends or like maybe they're coworkers, and you are 802 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: wanting to be sober, but you don't want to have 803 00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:13,879 Speaker 1: to go into your whole life story and talk about 804 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: why you're making this decision. Are there anything that you 805 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:18,279 Speaker 1: can offer for people to be able to stay in 806 00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: the moment, to set a boundary, but like, keep it 807 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:21,760 Speaker 1: moving kind of thing. 808 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,359 Speaker 2: Don't over complicate it. I think that when we get 809 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,839 Speaker 2: into explaining things, that's when we usually trip ourselves up. 810 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 2: And so my therapist taught me this, and I teach 811 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,880 Speaker 2: my clients this is that you're informing them of a decision. 812 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 2: You're not asking for their permission, You're not asking for 813 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,400 Speaker 2: them to agree or to make you feel better about it. 814 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,720 Speaker 2: You're informing them. And so Eden just that mindset shift 815 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,360 Speaker 2: from I'm not explaining to them, oh, I'm not drinking 816 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 2: because you know the headaches and I just couldn't do 817 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,680 Speaker 2: it anymore. You have to give them the whole story. 818 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,200 Speaker 2: You're just informing them, and even that can shorten what 819 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:56,880 Speaker 2: you feel like you need to say. Because I'm not 820 00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,359 Speaker 2: drinking tonight really is all you have to say. And 821 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,000 Speaker 2: even if they ask, well, really, why not I why 822 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,359 Speaker 2: don't you just have one? You can still reiterate, yeah, 823 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 2: I'm just not drinking tonight. Period. But when you go 824 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 2: into explaining I think that's where the burden of it 825 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 2: and the heaviness comes. It was just like, oh, how 826 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,799 Speaker 2: am I going to get myself out of this conversation? 827 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 2: So I would encourage people to go in and say, 828 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,200 Speaker 2: I'm going to inform my friends of my decision for tonight, 829 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 2: and it's going to be what it's going to be, 830 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,560 Speaker 2: it's final, as opposed to oh gosh, how am I 831 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 2: going to explain to them why I'm not drinking and 832 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 2: what happened last weekend and how that's a little bit 833 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,719 Speaker 2: more again giving them more than they really need to 834 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:38,319 Speaker 2: know about it. So I'm not drinking tonight, Eden's maybe 835 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 2: not sharing it with them, but explain it to the 836 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,799 Speaker 2: server can be helpful to have the server not continually 837 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,960 Speaker 2: come around and ask you you're letting him know it, 838 00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,160 Speaker 2: lets friends know all at one time, and then you 839 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 2: can lessen the pressure there. But honestly, if you can 840 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 2: really realize it, saying I'm not drinking tonight or today, 841 00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 2: or I don't want to drink as being all you 842 00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,239 Speaker 2: have to say, really lightens the burden of it in 843 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 2: social settings. 844 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 1: Thank you for that. I think that will be incredibly 845 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 1: helpful for people who have been struggling with like cause 846 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 1: you're right, like we get into like all of it 847 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,239 Speaker 1: explaining and like, how do I say this when it 848 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,279 Speaker 1: really could just be as simple as no, thank you, 849 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:14,520 Speaker 1: I'm not interested in that tonight. 850 00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:17,720 Speaker 2: I'm not interested yet. It's again, it's your confidence around it. 851 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 2: It's your shortness surrounded. I think that since people like, oh, okay, 852 00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:26,000 Speaker 2: well she's sure, she's just informing me, you know, when 853 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 2: you seem a little shaky, that it's just like, okay, 854 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:29,879 Speaker 2: tell me more. Why did it? You know? And then 855 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 2: but when you inform them, they're like, oh that okay, 856 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,840 Speaker 2: Well there's that moving on right right. 857 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: For somebody who may be enjoying our conversation and they 858 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:42,040 Speaker 1: are newly sober curious, is there one small step they 859 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,280 Speaker 1: can take this week to kind of go a little 860 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:45,520 Speaker 1: further on their journey. 861 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,640 Speaker 2: I would say, if you are drinking, still actively drinking, 862 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:53,879 Speaker 2: do the tracking, do the tracking of how much you're 863 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 2: drinking for the next week and just see how get 864 00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 2: an understanding of that. And if you're not active drinking 865 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,800 Speaker 2: and don't plan on it, give yourself maybe go ahead 866 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,799 Speaker 2: while you're in this space of being curious and give 867 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 2: yourself the gift of sobriety for a period of time. 868 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 2: Maybe just commit to something small, like just commit to 869 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 2: the week. You don't have to commit to the rest 870 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 2: of your life. I know when I got sober, I 871 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,279 Speaker 2: was not thinking about eleven years from that point at all. 872 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 2: Then even at this point, I'm not thinking about your 873 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:24,960 Speaker 2: twenty I'm just thinking about eleven years and however many 874 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,279 Speaker 2: months like staying in the day. But go ahead, if 875 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,280 Speaker 2: you're thinking about it, if you're listening to this podcast, 876 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 2: if you've been exploring it, that's all you really need 877 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 2: to just lean a little bit more and honor that. 878 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,279 Speaker 2: And so if you're still drinking, not ready to quit 879 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,120 Speaker 2: or take a break at all, I would say you 880 00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:45,000 Speaker 2: can just start out by tracking judgment free. Or if 881 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,600 Speaker 2: you're in a place where you're sober listening to this 882 00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 2: and you want to give it a go, go ahead 883 00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 2: and try a week of just full sobriety and mark 884 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 2: your mood and kind of journal a little bit about 885 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,040 Speaker 2: what that experience is like. And then from that place 886 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,960 Speaker 2: of information you can decide and warm your next steps 887 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,440 Speaker 2: after that. But start now, Start now with something that 888 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:05,759 Speaker 2: you can be consistent with. 889 00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,560 Speaker 1: Kristin what's one piece of advice that you would give 890 00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 1: your eighteen year old self. 891 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 2: Oh wow, oh wow, doctor Joy, I don't know just that. 892 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,760 Speaker 2: I mean I would, gosh, we could have a whole 893 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 2: yana fix my life with my eighteen year old self. 894 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:31,200 Speaker 2: But seriously, but I would just tell her, I think 895 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:34,440 Speaker 2: that this is a little bit longer than me what 896 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,719 Speaker 2: you asked for. But I think I was just so 897 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,600 Speaker 2: insure of myself and my skills and my gifts and 898 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,920 Speaker 2: my strengths. When I thought that I needed more. I 899 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,120 Speaker 2: thought I needed more courage and more intelligence and more. 900 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,360 Speaker 2: And when I think about the role alcohol played in 901 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,719 Speaker 2: my life even at that age, because I know we're 902 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,080 Speaker 2: not supposed drink till twenty one, that's another story. I 903 00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:57,480 Speaker 2: was trying to fill in the gaps of insecurity and 904 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,040 Speaker 2: feeling inadequate. It's like, gave me some wings, made me 905 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:02,960 Speaker 2: feel like I could be in this space and be 906 00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:06,000 Speaker 2: myself and that sort of thing. But if I could 907 00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 2: just somehow get to heard, say, the personality that you have, 908 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,480 Speaker 2: the quirkiness that you have, the silliness, the awkwardness, the 909 00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,239 Speaker 2: intelligence that you have is your strength. And don't dim it, 910 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,279 Speaker 2: don't dim it, don't be ashamed of it. I think 911 00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,080 Speaker 2: that would have really helped me along the way. 912 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: Thank you, Bill offer than that. I appreciate that, Chris. 913 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,160 Speaker 1: So Chris, it remind us where we can stay connected 914 00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,120 Speaker 1: with you. What is your website, any social media channels 915 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,560 Speaker 1: you are you'd like to share, and any new offers 916 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,840 Speaker 1: or new programming that you're offering through your practices. 917 00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,840 Speaker 2: Yes. So, my website is B three by Kristen dot com. 918 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:47,360 Speaker 2: That's the letter B, the number three by Kristen dot com. 919 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:51,400 Speaker 2: I'm on Instagram with my name at Kristin Feaster, TikTok, 920 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,759 Speaker 2: the same YouTube, the same so on other platforms. It's 921 00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,800 Speaker 2: my personal name. And right now I am accepting clients 922 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,080 Speaker 2: for therapy in North Carolina. In South Carolina, I can 923 00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:04,799 Speaker 2: see individuals and couples. I help individuals and couples with 924 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,600 Speaker 2: topics such as this, how addictions showing up in their life, 925 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:11,120 Speaker 2: other habits, other patterns, other cycles and things that they 926 00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,600 Speaker 2: are trying to work on, and so I can serve 927 00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:15,879 Speaker 2: people in both North Carolina and South Carolina. For that, 928 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 2: I also have a wellness community called the B three Crew, 929 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 2: and everyone in there are women over the age of 930 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,719 Speaker 2: thirty five who are really coming to terms with what 931 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,800 Speaker 2: wellness looks like for them, and so they are working 932 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,280 Speaker 2: on being consistent with their fitness journey, and they're working 933 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,319 Speaker 2: on improving their mental health through the courses and the 934 00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,680 Speaker 2: resources that I offer within my wellness community. So if 935 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 2: therapy is not quite a fit, or if you already 936 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:42,240 Speaker 2: have a therapist and you just need some more supplemental 937 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,480 Speaker 2: day to day, week to week resources, the B three 938 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,360 Speaker 2: crew community is that supplemental element to a lot of 939 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 2: people's therapy journey, and people in there are sober curious, 940 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:55,719 Speaker 2: they are working all their relationship with food. There's a 941 00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 2: lot of deeper work that's going on, so you'll find 942 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,759 Speaker 2: someone that looks like you and relate to what you're 943 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:01,880 Speaker 2: going through perfectly. 944 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:04,120 Speaker 1: Be sure to include all of those resources in our 945 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: show notes. Thank you so much for sending some more 946 00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: time with us today, christ and I really appreciate it. 947 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:09,600 Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, doctor Joey. 948 00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: Thanks of course, I'm so glad Kristin was able to 949 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,960 Speaker 1: join me for today's conversation. To learn more about her 950 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: and her work, be sure to visit the show notes 951 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,680 Speaker 1: at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com slash Session four fifty seven, 952 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:26,839 Speaker 1: and don't forget to text two of your girls right 953 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,719 Speaker 1: now and tell them to check out the episode. Did 954 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:31,480 Speaker 1: you know that you could leave us a voicemail with 955 00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,600 Speaker 1: your questions or suggestions for the podcast. If you have 956 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,440 Speaker 1: topics you'd like us to discuss, drop us a message 957 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,960 Speaker 1: at Memo dot fm slash Therapy for Black Girls and 958 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,200 Speaker 1: let us know what's on your mind. We just might 959 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,960 Speaker 1: feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a 960 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 1: therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory at Therapy 961 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:52,279 Speaker 1: for Blackgirls dot com slash directory. Don't forget to follow 962 00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,359 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls or join 963 00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,840 Speaker 1: us over in our Patreon community for exclusive updates, behind 964 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,759 Speaker 1: the scenes content, and more. You can join us at 965 00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:06,000 Speaker 1: community dot Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. This episode was 966 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,160 Speaker 1: produced by Alice Ellis, Indichubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was 967 00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,360 Speaker 1: done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y'all so much for joining 968 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,960 Speaker 1: me again this week. I look forward to continuing this 969 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,000 Speaker 1: conversation with you all real soon. Take good care,