WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend-January 16, 2021 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:05.119 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg 0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:09.160 Quick Takes. Tim Steinovic from Bloomberg Radio. Hi, I'm Carol 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:12.119 Masser and I'm Tim Stenovick of Bloomberg Quicktake. Welcome to 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.239 the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week. Alright, Tim, Week 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:17.759 forty four working from home? Okay, but who's counting, Carol? 0:00:17.920 --> 0:00:20.680 I know, I apparently am. We've been in our studio 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.720 though in New York City, at Bloomberg headquarters. It's a 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.439 week full of anxiety and questions of what's to come. 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:29.880 We watched virus numbers ticking higher, the vaccine rollout continuing 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:32.159 to frustrate, and for the first time in history, a 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:35.279 U S President was impeached for a second time. With 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:37.560 that in mind, we'll hear from the author of kill Switch, 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.080 The Rise of the Modern Senate and the Crippling of 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:45.080 American Democracy. Also, its primary motivation was his anger at 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:49.840 government shutdowns to coronavirus, the US Capital writer that has 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.240 No Regrets. This was among our most read stories this week. 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:53.720 For me, it was a must read. Yeah, it was 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:56.480 a fascinating story. And in the meantime the business world, 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:59.040 Carol it marches on I p O s off and 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.200 running as Petkoe went public again. We've got the CEO, 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.960 but Tim, We're gonna begin with the top story this week, 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:09.480 big tex social media giants Facebook, Twitter, Google, Amazon banning 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:12.399 President Trump, Parlor and others in an effort to prevent 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.040 for the riot organizing. We caught up with Bloomberg News 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.520 technology reporter Sarah Fryer, author of No Filter, the inside 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:21.880 story of Instagram, along with Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe Webber, 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:24.720 who gotta say, kicked it off with a little levity 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.200 in an already stressful I was looking forward to that 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.080 didn't look anything like I don't think I'll be so lucky. 0:01:32.319 --> 0:01:35.080 Um and and obviously UM with sort of the social 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:40.160 media platforms UM basically basically you know, not only blocking 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.920 Trump and and perhaps permanently banning him in the case 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.560 of Twitter. But then I think the parlor conversation has 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:51.360 become the one that's even more interesting because um, both 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:54.840 the Apple App Store and and Google's play Store have 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:57.960 taken restrictions there. But then I thought the big move, 0:01:58.000 --> 0:01:59.520 in the one that I was actually most eager to 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:01.920 talk to Sara about, was sort of the the Amazon 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:08.800 move awus coming in and basically blocking it. Yeah, but 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:10.760 it does show you know, like not only are the 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.560 social media companies able to wield a stick, but like 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:17.040 Amazon's got the biggest stick of all. So so Sarah 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.200 kind of there's this is just a fast moving story. 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:23.200 But I want to understand, like how you're thinking about 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:28.200 where this conversation goes from from here. Well, it dove 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.280 tails right in with the tech power conversation that we're 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.600 going to have a lot more of this year as 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:38.800 these anti trust of battles with Washington rage on, and 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:42.000 I expect that to continue during the Biden administration. And 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:46.560 that tech power conversation is both about because the power 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:50.000 to restrict as as much as it is about the 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:54.240 power to allow UM. And so the companies are grappling 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:58.320 with this, allowing Parlor to be on the App Store, 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:04.080 allowing Parlor to have UM posting by Amazon. That's the 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.880 thing that employees are looking at, Critics are looking at 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:10.239 and saying, well, why don't you just cut them off? 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.079 You have the power to do that. You're a private company, 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:16.040 And the companies are saying, you know what, Yeah, we 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:17.919 don't want to be dealing with this. This We don't 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:21.960 want this headache and and it's really interesting to see 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.560 that evolution because we've we've talked about it a lot, 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.959 like you said, with the social media companies, UH, it's 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:31.320 a lot of conservatives are concerned about too much cutting 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:35.080 off of people who have accounts. A lot of people 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:38.360 on the democratic side are concerned about the hosting of 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:43.600 illegal activity and UM people who are inciting violence, and 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:49.000 in the balance is really what is is UH an 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:52.160 issue here to look and Valley companies have a reputation 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.360 for being really mission driven, and I think a lot 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:59.000 of employees have had of a personal reckoning over the 0:03:59.040 --> 0:04:01.840 last few years. Is it ethical to work for Facebook? 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.040 Is it ethical to work for Google if they're working 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:09.040 with the Defense Department on you know, UM, putting people 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:10.800 in cases of the border. There have been a lot 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:15.839 of new debates about what it means if you work 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:19.960 for a company that has certain suppliers, certain vendors, certain contracts, 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.760 and host certain voices. And so we have seen employees 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.680 the almost the more forceful voice against their leaders and 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:32.640 even the government because the government can't can't really be 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:36.080 clear about what they want. Everyone's scrutinizing tech power, but 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:39.640 they don't necessarily have a clear direction of what would 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.839 be a good resolution. Whereas employees, you know, they're mostly 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.360 they're mostly liberal, they're well educated, and they're saying, hey, 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.480 I don't want to work for a place that supports 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.280 something like this. And we saw an open letter from 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:56.839 Twitter employees to Jack Dorothy asking for a bigger ban 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.320 on Trumps. They had previously only banned him for twelve hours, 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.320 and now that he's permanently banned. And we've seen we've 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:08.680 seen Amazon employees right to their employer about parlor, saying, 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.160 why are we hosting parlor? We should we should kick 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:14.560 them off. And I think that that power should not 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:18.520 be underestimated because of how hard it is to recruit 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.360 Untilicon Valley the best talent. Well, and what's to stop 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:25.960 I don't know, Like, I don't know whether there's oranges 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:28.920 to oranges, apples to apples, but another company from saying 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:31.839 I don't like Well, I guess companies do that, right 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:33.320 if they don't want to work with a supplier, or 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.240 if they don't want to work with something, they have 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:37.560 that opportunity to do it. Sarah, I'm just trying to 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:42.000 understand the differences or not differences from another company kind 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:45.560 of banning something, you know, whether they don't sell to 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.960 a certain customer. Um, they do that all the time, right, 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:54.640 Well sometimes so okay, a few years ago, companies, we're 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:57.440 happy to just work within the bounds of the law. 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:02.120 There are sanctions against Iran, we won't sell two around that. 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.640 That was like, you know, if it's illegal, we won't 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.279 do it. Um. And that was how Facebook and Twitter 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.520 thought about content a lot in the early days. You know, 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:13.919 remove as little as possible, all right, tim safe to 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.680 say social media really rethinking some of its playbook. We 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.120 saw that this week, right, no, no doubt about it. Yeah, 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:21.200 that's right. I mean I was really surprised to see 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:23.799 big moves from the biggest tech companies essentially de platform 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.640 in the president. Really remarkable, all right. That was Bloomberg 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.520 News technology reporter Sarah Fiar. She joined us along with 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:32.480 Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe Weber. Still the come as 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:34.520 social media band, the president of the U S House 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.840 voted to impeach him for historic second time. We'll hear 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.440 from a top aide to former Democratic Majority Leader Harry 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:42.960 Reid of Nevada and the author of kill Switch. The 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:46.280 rise of the Modern Senate and the Crippling of American Democracy, 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:49.640 timely book. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:01.480 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol and Bloomberg Quick 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.480 Takes Tim Stinovy from Bloomberg Radio. This past week will 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:07.920 go down in US history as the U S House 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:10.680 of Representatives impeach President Trump for a second time, ten 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.400 Republicans voting in favor. Tim. It was kind of a 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.720 reminder of the division and dysfunction we're seeing definitely throughout 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:18.560 the GOP. Yeah, I mean, only the future will tell 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:22.000 if this is a splintering. For seven years, Adam Gentlesen 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.200 had an up close view of growing Senate dysfunction as 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.840 a top aid to former Democratic Majority leader Harry Reid 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.160 of Nevada, and writes about it in his new book, 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:32.520 Kill Switch, The Rise of the Modern Senate and the 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.920 Crippling of American Democracy. Switch It's a great title. Adam 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.960 is public affairs director of Democracy Ford. It's a legal 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:43.240 advocacy group against corruption in the executive branch and government. 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:45.560 We began with the news of the last two weeks. 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:47.200 There was a lot of it. We talked about the 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.240 capital ride and the second impeachment of President Trump. I 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.680 hate to say it, but I'm not surprised. I think 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:57.480 this is the logical result of what the president has 0:07:57.520 --> 0:08:01.640 been soaking for the last four years. Um, And you 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:03.240 know something I talked about in the book. I mean, 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.560 you know, the rise of these forces predates him. Um. 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:10.800 He took over the GOP in terms of assuming its leadership, 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.400 but a lot of the forces that propelled him to 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:16.640 office existed before he even stepped into the political arena. 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.360 So I think that it's horrible to see what we've 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.920 been seeing over the last week, but it is sort 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:24.960 of sadly the culmination of a lot of trends of 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.960 extreme partisanship that have been building for decades now. So 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.880 explain your title to kill switch. What do you mean? So? 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:34.400 When I worked in the Senate, one of the things 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:36.320 you hear a lot is that the Senate that's supposed 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.959 to act as a cooling saucer. Uh. This is dates 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.640 back to an apocryphal story about George Washington explaining to 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.120 Thomas Jefferson as they were drinking some tea, that the 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:47.720 Senate was supposed to act like the saucer under Jefferson's tea. 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:50.440 He would splash out of the saucer, cool on the 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:52.960 splash off the cup, and cool on the saucer before 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.080 I was ready to drink. Uh what that was true 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.839 at a time? Um The founders created the Senate to 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:02.319 be a liberative and thoughtful. They also created it to 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.959 not have a filibuster and to not have a supermajority 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.760 threshold for passing legislation. They created it as a majority 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.640 rule institution. It was designed to be thoughtful, but also 0:09:11.679 --> 0:09:14.880 to get things done and for debate to be thorough 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.920 but limited. What we see today in the modern center 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.120 is a body that allows the party that's out of 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.440 power to use the rules of they as they have 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:28.800 come to evolve, to stop everything that comes before the chamber. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:32.040 This combines with the forces of partisanship that are dominating 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:34.760 our politics today to turn the Senate from what was 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.599 once a cooling saucer now into a kill switch that 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:41.040 shuts down everything that the federal government tries to do. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.240 And a big reason for that is in something that 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.000 you really dig deeply into in your book is the filibuster. 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.840 That's right, and so the book explains the historical evolution 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:55.000 of the filibuster. Um. This is something that you know, 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.440 if folks know anything about the Senate, they tend to 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.920 know about the filibuster. And when they think of it, 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.280 I tend to think of Jimmy Stewart in Mr Smith 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:07.439 cost to Washington, right, holding the floor, talking at length, uh, 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.120 sort of using it as an underdog against the forces 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.960 of corruption and entrenched power. Um. The thing is, this 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.600 is not really what the filibuster has ever truly been 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:21.239 in practice. UH. And even though it is directly associated 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:23.840 with the Senate in the popular imagination, it was not 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:25.800 part of the Senate and was not meant to be 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.240 part of the Senate. Um. When the Framers created the Senate, 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:32.000 they did not include the filibuster. And not only did 0:10:32.000 --> 0:10:35.920 they not include it, they argued against ever creating something 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.680 like it. They were writing the Constitution in the shadow 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.120 of the Articles of Confederation, which had established a super 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:46.360 majority threshold for most bills to pass Congress. The Framers 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:50.040 saw that that was a disaster, and they argued very 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:54.120 clearly in the Federalist Papers and other writings that establishing 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.040 a supermajority threshold would have the direct effect of giving 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:00.640 what they called a pertinacious minority, the ability to bring 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.439 everything to a halt for the sole purpose of embarrassing 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.439 the majority. You know, they were realists. They understood this 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.679 essential fact of politics that you give the party that's 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:12.360 out of power of this ability to throw a monkey 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:14.840 engine in the system, they're going to use it. It 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.800 took basically two centuries for that power to evolve in 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:20.360 the way that it has today. But that is what 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:22.440 we've come to scene. That's what we've come to see 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.600 happen in the Senate is the minority use that power 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:27.960 and that monkey wrench, and exactly the way that the 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:29.840 Framers warned us they would. One thing I want to 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.120 ask you, um, take us back to the first time 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:33.720 you got to the Senate. What was it like? What 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:37.240 was your first experience of it? The first start I 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:38.920 got to the Senate, I was I was brought up 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:42.679 to meet my boss, Senator Harry Reid. And it's an 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.200 incredibly ornate building. I mean, unfortunately, a lot of scenes 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:48.480 are on display this last week of the inside of 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.160 the Capital for the wrong reasons, But when you're there 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.839 and able to appreciate it, it is incredibly dramatic. You've 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:58.439 got painted walls, you've got arched ceilings, you've got giant chandeliers, 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.120 you've got historic portraits everywhere. It's overwhelming. Uh. It feels 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.360 a little bit like vers I uh in a little 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.360 bit uh, a little fancy for a democracy, more than 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:11.120 you might expect. Um. But it's an incredibly intimidating place. Uh. 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.040 And then the leader's office is they they nicknamed at 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.240 the taj Mahal for a good reason. It's got these 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:22.040 huge views of them all, dramatic feelings, huge fireplaces. It's 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:24.680 it's a lot to take in is as a young staffer. Um. Yeah, 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:26.480 And I think it's interesting when we read about, right, 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:29.079 we grew up reading about history. We read about the capital, 0:12:29.120 --> 0:12:30.680 and it is something. It's got it. It must have 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.560 just been something to actually be kind of part of it. 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:37.599 Then Uh, and didn't live up to your expectations? Did it? 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.720 Did it go beyond your expectations or did it start 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:48.080 to disappoint how quick? My big yeah, pretty quickly. My 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:52.120 big takeaway was the big, massive gap between what you 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:55.480 expect from such a grand institution and what it was 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.320 able to produce. Uh. You know, I was there during 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.240 a period of historic gridla one of the defining experiences 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:03.000 for me. I talked about us in the book was 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.240 after the murder of twenty first creators in Newtown, Connecticut. Uh. 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.719 The absolute failure of the Senate to pass any kind 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.320 of policy solution, even in the middle of the road. Uh. 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.760 Some might argue, not even not even strong enough policy 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:19.520 like background checks. Um it. It is stunning. You know, 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.839 this institution that has a reputation for being slow and 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.200 has a reputation for working in a deliberative fashion. But 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:27.800 I think that in many ways has been used as 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.360 an excuse for it to simply do nothing. And I 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:32.400 think that's the problem that we're seeing today. We as 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:34.960 we as a federal government are simply unable to operate 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.120 in an intelligent way to meet the policy challenges that 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.199 we face. And and part of what I argue in 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:41.640 the book is that we need to find ways to 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:43.920 restore the Senate, to keep what's good about it, to 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.720 can let it continue to be a deliberative body, but 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.480 actually make it be a place where good ideas don't 0:13:50.480 --> 0:13:52.840 just go to die. Good ideas go there to be 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.439 developed and perfected and then actually passed. No one has 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.640 done more to increase good luck in dysfunction in Congress 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.120 than it's tunnel. When he took over as leader, there 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:04.280 was a historic rise in the use of the filibuster 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.160 under his watch and at his direction. I should be 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:09.280 clear about that. Um. It was explicitly a strategy of his. 0:14:10.640 --> 0:14:13.360 Adam Gentlesen, author of kill Switch, The Rise of the 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:16.240 Modern Senate and the Crippling of American Democracy, also a 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.440 former deputy chief of staff to Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid. 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:21.320 Kind of hard to believe all the political news we've 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:25.720 already had this week. You thought was full of action, right, Yeah, exactly. 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.600 Get ready, everybody check out to a story about the 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:32.200 book by Bloomberg Business Week National correspondent Josh Green, someone 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.040 we love to talk to about all things politics. Find 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.920 that on the Bloomberg and Bloomberg dot Com. Still ahead, 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:39.960 a story that was among the most read on the 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:42.440 Bloomberg tim this week. Yeah, it was about the Capitol 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.520 Hill rioter that isn't actually sorry about what he did. 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.240 That's coming up on Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. 0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:01.760 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol and Bloomberg Quick Takes. 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:05.800 Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. This story gotta say many 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.040 of us were drawn to I was because I believe 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:09.840 that in kind of figuring out what was wrong at 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.160 the capital this year, what happened the riots and the 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:15.440 breaching of the US capital, we need to understand those 0:15:15.440 --> 0:15:17.920 who did it, ask why, and we need to talk 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.000 to them. And I think that's why this next story 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:23.040 resonated with so many people. It was among the most 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:25.520 popular on the Bloomberg this week. It's exactly what our 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:28.920 own William Turton did. He's a Bloomberg News cybersecurity reporter, 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.640 and his story among the most read on the terminal 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.360 right about the Capitol rioter telling his story from the 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.600 inside that rider. By the way, he's got a name. 0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:39.280 Brendan Fellows is a twenty six year old from upstate 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:41.760 New York who decided to go to the Trump rally 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.320 when he saw a tweet from President Trump in December 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:45.760 he said there's going to be a big rally on 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.520 the sixth and DC. He said, to be there. It 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.440 will be wild. So when when Fellows saw that tweet, 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:53.640 he decided to go to DC. And you know, something 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:55.720 really revealing that he told me is that, you know, 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:58.080 while he does believe the election was rigged, and he 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.440 has been you know, consuming a lot of said about 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:05.120 electand fraud. His primary motivation was his anger at government 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:09.040 shutdowns due to due to coronavirus, which I thought was 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.720 really kind of fascinating. Yeah, that part was really interesting, William. 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.120 And I wonder to what it says about the idea 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.080 of you know, there's so much psychology here right, like 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.080 why were these people who many of whom are now apologizing, 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:25.440 What what sort of sparked them to to actually make 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.960 this move to to do something? Um? And and what 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:32.400 did he tell you about that? Well, something fascinating about 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:35.040 Brandon iss that, um, he had never been to a 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:39.360 Trump rally before, and when he came to this U rally, 0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:41.640 he didn't even know that there was a march. He 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:45.080 simply came to see see Trump speak. So he quite 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:48.720 literally got swept up into the mob um when he 0:16:48.880 --> 0:16:51.320 joined this march. And by the time he had already 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:54.920 reached the Capitol, the outside perimeter had been breached. So 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.880 you know, he walked onto the Capital law and scaled 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:00.560 a wall and eventually climbed through a window to get 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:03.400 into the Senate, And once inside, he got into the 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.919 office of Senator Murkley at Democrats Oregon Um where he 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:09.000 put his feet up on the table and smoked to joint. 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.520 Why did he did he understand he was breaking the 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:16.120 law by doing that? You know, it's it's hard to know. 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:21.600 He claims that because he wasn't being arrested while inside 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:24.480 and in fact, the police officer gave him directions to 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:27.840 the statue hall inside the capitol, that you know, he 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:30.919 was under the assumption he wasn't doing anything wrong. Um, 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.840 you know, of course the kind of it's difficult to believe, 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.359 but but you know, I think it's revealing he he 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:38.879 did not think that he was going to get in 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:40.920 trouble for for doing this based on the reaction of 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.919 the police officers. You know. You you talk about in 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.240 the piece that he's had some friction with his family 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:51.480 over this and over his beliefs. Like yeah, and I 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.720 think it's it's it's probably something that we're a lot 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.000 of us can relate to with the way that disagreements 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:01.840 politically are are happening right now. Um, I'm wondering, after 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.800 talking to him, UM, take us through like what he's 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:09.240 planning to do moving forward? I mean, how do how 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:13.280 does one move past an inflection point like this, Well, 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.560 you know, I'm not sure in speaking to him if 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:19.840 he's actually grappled with the fact that he's done something wrong. Um. 0:18:19.880 --> 0:18:21.480 You know, and and you know, one of the reasons 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:23.880 we know that is because he's planning actually to return 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:27.399 to d C for for more events on the twenties 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.560 surrounding the inauguration. You know, some people will say that 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.040 that we shouldn't listen to people and and that by 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.120 talking to them is platforming them. But I think they're wrong. 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.720 It's actually really important to understand the psychology and motivations 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:42.080 of these people. And there's a really good example of that. 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.240 I mean, these folks said that they planned to storm 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.680 the capital on the sixth, no one listened to them, 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:49.680 no one took them seriously, and then they actually did it. Um. 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.440 So you know, I think just in general, we need 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.920 to we need to actually listen to what these people 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.160 are saying. I mean, you tell his story. He lives 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.600 in a converted school bus, he stopped working last spring 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:03.560 because if fears of COVID nineteen um, and you said, 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:05.760 you know, he became a disillusioned when New York State 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.800 denied him unemployment benefits. I mean, we have we talked 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.480 about the opioid epidemic in the past, that people who 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:14.720 were just kind of lost in society. I mean, we 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:17.479 really need to understand these stories in these individuals who 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.520 feel like there is no voice for them, and this 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:23.719 is where the President in many large ways, you know, 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:26.800 did speak to them, right. But I think it's also 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:29.960 important to understand that these people are becoming radicalized by 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.000 the Internet. I mean, he told me that he gets 0:19:32.040 --> 0:19:34.760 the majority of his news from YouTube. He pointed out 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:38.320 Ben Shapiro and Stephen Crowder. He also said he's recently 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:41.520 started watching news Max and One American News, which have 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:45.280 both promoted false claims of a rigged election. So, you know, 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:49.280 the culpability of platforms like YouTube and Facebook, um and 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.240 Twitter are are a parent in this In this riot, 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:54.879 it's no different than forgive me because I'm hearing radicalized 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.479 by the Internet. It's no different than we talked about terrorists. Right, 0:19:57.520 --> 0:19:59.480 we think about nine eleven and after nine eleven that 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:02.639 individual who being radicalized by the internet, we saw that 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.119 as a bad thing. Yes, I mean a lot of 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.760 folks who ended up joining the Islamic State were radicalized 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:10.960 by YouTube. Well, social platforms certainly playing a big role 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.840 in the organization of the rallies that we've seen recently. 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:16.600 And I love that William really talked about YouTube there, 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.440 because it's Facebook, it's Instagram, it's Twitter that I've gotten 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:22.000 so much for the attention parlor too. But YouTube has 0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:23.800 a big role in this, right exactly. And I don't 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.560 think we thought about that instantly, but you're right to 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:30.400 point that out. That was William Turton, Bloomberg News Cybersecurity reporter. 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:32.960 All Right, you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Even though 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:34.960 it felt that way, this week was not just about 0:20:35.000 --> 0:20:37.200 news out of the nation's capital. That's right. The I 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:39.600 p O market also often running with a couple of 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.600 new issues this week, including one that was a reminder 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.960 that pets are big business. You talked to Petco CEO. 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:49.520 We did. Indeed, that's coming up next. This is Bloomberg. 0:20:56.280 --> 0:21:00.320 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bomberg 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:04.280 Quick Takes Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. We're gonna go 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:06.280 switch gears. We got to talk about some of the 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.600 market activity that we're already seeing this new year, including 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:13.520 once again an active market to take companies public amazing. 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:15.840 Just a couple of weeks in right tim I p 0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:19.480 O market often running, we caught up with Bloomberg News 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:23.080 deals reporter Crystal Seed here about the activity. We we 0:21:23.119 --> 0:21:26.560 really are selling the year UM with very, very sizeable 0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:29.240 and hype profile I p o s. Just this week 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.639 we have seen at least six companies when public in 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:35.720 New York and that includes Petco and that includes a 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:39.200 firm posh Mark. A lot of them are consumer facing companies. 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:42.159 We have seen a bunch of technology companies when public 0:21:42.640 --> 0:21:46.119 laid in the quarter, but let it be consumer or 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.320 a tech is going to be a year of another 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:51.720 record year potentially for I p o s. We already 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:54.920 have seen, you know, certain companies come out and say 0:21:54.960 --> 0:22:00.800 that they have either confidentially filed or engaging advisors on listenings. 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.720 So not only that, we are potentially going to see 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.720 more direct listing given they are now able to raise 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:11.800 the companies I would raise UH proceeds from from these transactions. 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:13.200 So all know it's going to be a big year 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:16.360 for a CN for capital markets and UM it's it's 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:18.240 the best, it's one of the best starts in the 0:22:18.320 --> 0:22:21.679 year that we've seen. UM so yeah, pet Petco and 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:26.400 the adoption really helped them in terms of growth. And 0:22:26.480 --> 0:22:29.880 it's not just a short term um a short term 0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:32.800 um boosting revenue or in business that they're going to see. 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:35.639 People who adopt during the pandemic are going to have 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:38.520 the pet for the next decade or so, and that 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:40.680 really helped them. And it's the same trend that they 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:45.320 see in suburbs and in cities. UM So in terms 0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:49.560 of expansion, UM millennial is getting pets and COVID definitely 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:52.439 have been a driver. Peco a name that's going public 0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:55.080 for a second time and with a great ticker. We're 0:22:55.119 --> 0:22:58.320 talking about Petco Health and Wellness, which follows the pop 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:01.879 prints of Chewi, which went public last year and Bark 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.760 expected this year via Spack. Let's not forget that Chewi 0:23:05.880 --> 0:23:07.719 was a cover story at Bloomberg Business Week. I mean, 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:10.280 it's all about everybody's pets. I do want to say though, 0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:12.760 that the owner of the animal supply chain store Petco 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:16.080 man they raised eight D sixty four million in that 0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:18.720 I p o Yeah a lot, right, and it returned 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:21.879 the retailer to the public market fifteen years after it 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:24.720 was taken private. The company which is changing its name 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.679 to Petco Health and Wellness Company. In conjunction with the listing, 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:31.280 sold forty eight million shares for eighteen dollars each. Now 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:33.320 after the I p O, Petco will continue to be 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:37.280 controlled by its current owners that include CBC Capital Partners 0:23:37.320 --> 0:23:41.360 and Canada Pension Plan Investment Board. They acquired Petco four 0:23:41.600 --> 0:23:44.159 four point six billion from TPG and Leonard Green in 0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:47.600 two sixteen, a decade after those two firms took Petco private. 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:50.880 It's one of those Harvard businistical scale studies. I gotta say, yeah, 0:23:50.880 --> 0:23:54.400 absolutely is. It also speaks to the cycle of this 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:57.880 stuff right, public private, private, public, right, which we see 0:23:57.920 --> 0:23:59.720 a lot and in the process, everybody's making a lot 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:02.159 of money. Along the way, we caught up with Petco CEO, 0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:05.160 Ron Coglin and oh that ticker by the way, let's 0:24:05.200 --> 0:24:08.200 get back to that. It's w O O F. Let 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:10.399 me start with what hasn't changed. What hasn't changed is 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:13.240 the mission of the company to really improve the lives 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:15.280 of pets pet parents has always been in the hearts 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:19.200 of the folks who work at PETC. But what's changed 0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:23.200 is we've really retooled the business um. Instead of being 0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:25.800 a big bag of dog foot in a cart type company. 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:29.040 Were really become a complete partner for the health and 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:32.040 wellness of a pet parent. We're really the only ones 0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:34.680 that can do that because we're the only ones who 0:24:34.720 --> 0:24:40.760 have a veterinary hospitals, training grooming that the online and 0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:44.400 the mass players don't have. We have the highest end food. 0:24:44.440 --> 0:24:47.320 We're only retailers said, we're getting rid of artificial ingredients, 0:24:47.359 --> 0:24:50.080 getting rid of shot callers. And then we have strong 0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:52.880 e commerce and our stores which are now called pet 0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:56.639 care centers that more and more are working together. So 0:24:56.920 --> 0:25:00.479 here's an amazing fact for you eight. We're e commerce 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:04.639 orders are getting fulfilled through our pet care centers, which 0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:07.920 just gives us faster to the customer and lower cost 0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:10.440 versus competition. Right, so you don't have to have these huge, 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:14.280 massive distribution centers. Yeah, we call it that's right. We 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:17.879 call these micro distribution centers, and it really gives us 0:25:17.920 --> 0:25:21.880 a competitive advantage. We talked about it as forward deployed inventory. Ron. 0:25:21.920 --> 0:25:24.560 I gotta say I love dogs. Got my dog Scout. 0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:28.080 She's quite the spoiled little critter um. But what's interesting 0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:30.359 is that I've talked with the CEO of Chewy follow 0:25:30.440 --> 0:25:34.800 this sector because it has really exploded. We have definitely 0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:37.200 seen it take off. Where's the most growth? Is it 0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:39.600 the health care side of it and the pet care centers? 0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:43.880 Is that it? Is it merchandise? What is it? Yeah, 0:25:43.920 --> 0:25:47.320 So you're seeing explosive growth and services. So that's where 0:25:47.359 --> 0:25:49.520 we're putting a lot of effort. We're building out the 0:25:49.560 --> 0:25:54.000 fastest vet network build out in history, really focused on 0:25:55.200 --> 0:25:59.040 the affordable vet care. Don't get the care they need 0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:03.359 because of affordability, So we're rolling out seventy um that 0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:06.720 hospitals a year. So that's a big growth area. And 0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:09.920 the other growth area is around digital and that's where 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:13.920 you know, we were growing before covid and we're growing 0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:17.480 last quarter and our digital offerings, so you're seeing that 0:26:17.560 --> 0:26:21.800 competitive competitive advantage come through. Listen, we know the pandemic. 0:26:22.240 --> 0:26:24.560 I'm sure you've asked me, asked this question a million times, 0:26:24.560 --> 0:26:27.679 so forgive me. The pandemic led to people adopting a 0:26:27.680 --> 0:26:29.760 lot of pets. I know, as I walked my dog 0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:32.440 over the last year, the streets were kind of littered 0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:36.520 with you could see the various you know, pet retailers, 0:26:36.560 --> 0:26:39.840 E tailers, boxes. Everybody was buying things for their pets, 0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:43.320 argue at all concerned that as we all eventually get 0:26:43.359 --> 0:26:49.240 back to work that maybe that focus on our pets changes. Yeah. So, so, first, 0:26:49.320 --> 0:26:52.400 we have three points three million new pets in America 0:26:52.440 --> 0:26:55.920 today based upon what happened in COVID and people needing 0:26:55.920 --> 0:26:59.280 a little more joy in their lives, and those adoptions 0:26:59.280 --> 0:27:01.200 and those need to be said, they need to be groomed, 0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:03.040 they need to be trained, and then they need to 0:27:03.040 --> 0:27:06.200 be vaccinated. So that provides a lift to the entire 0:27:06.760 --> 0:27:11.200 category in terms of change of behavior. The good news 0:27:11.359 --> 0:27:14.080 is more and more companies and plays are talking about 0:27:14.080 --> 0:27:16.879 working from home, so that should be good. And more 0:27:16.880 --> 0:27:21.520 and more employers are becoming dog friendly. So we don't anticipate. 0:27:21.600 --> 0:27:25.000 And his history says there's not a lot of you know, 0:27:25.119 --> 0:27:29.000 returns if you will with live pets. Um so, and 0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:32.760 if if you know, we're we actively try to make 0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:36.359 sure that pets are put in homes or Petco Foundation 0:27:36.760 --> 0:27:41.160 saves four hundred thousand thousand lives a year from euthanasia, 0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:44.560 and we're dedicated trying to eliminate euthan asia. So um, 0:27:44.600 --> 0:27:47.199 we're going to be a catalyst for making sure that 0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:50.320 nothing bad happens on the back side of responsible pet ownership. 0:27:50.359 --> 0:27:52.359 That's the thing that I think, you know, everybody needs 0:27:52.359 --> 0:27:55.760 to know about because, um, that is going to help 0:27:55.760 --> 0:27:57.919 you in your cause. There. Hey, brick and mortar, how 0:27:57.920 --> 0:28:00.160 important is that? Like I do, do you guys think 0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:02.879 about that? You need to have to some extent, some 0:28:02.960 --> 0:28:05.720 saturation almost like a Starbucks where people if they're moving around, 0:28:05.720 --> 0:28:07.440 they need something for the pets that they see pet 0:28:07.440 --> 0:28:10.960 cos everywhere. How important is that to the business story 0:28:10.960 --> 0:28:14.960 for you guys? You know, we're comfortable with our footprint, 0:28:15.000 --> 0:28:17.399 but what I will tell you is our brick and 0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:21.360 mortar pet care centers are absolutely sources of competitive advantage. 0:28:21.560 --> 0:28:24.399 You think about it, right, they are the salons for pets, 0:28:24.520 --> 0:28:27.800 they're the hospital for pets, or even the schools for pets. Um. 0:28:27.840 --> 0:28:30.720 So our services make you know, we get much more 0:28:30.800 --> 0:28:35.520 utilization than your traditional retailer. But secondly, now their micro 0:28:35.600 --> 0:28:39.800 distribution centers and they are providing competitive advantage for e commerce. 0:28:40.240 --> 0:28:43.120 So you know, people think of us in the past 0:28:43.520 --> 0:28:45.840 as a traditional retailer, but that's not where we are. 0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:49.440 We're services center and we're an eCOM fulfillment center. So 0:28:49.600 --> 0:28:52.840 they are providing strategic advantage for us. Just got about 0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:55.080 fifty seconds left here. Investors paid up big here a 0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:57.960 lot of enthusiasm. Um ron, let me ask you. You 0:28:57.960 --> 0:28:59.800 guys had a net loss of twenty five million on 0:29:00.120 --> 0:29:03.320 sales of about three point six billion for the thirty 0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:08.000 nine week period ending October filings. When what's the problem? 0:29:08.120 --> 0:29:11.960 What's the path of profitability? And when does it happen? Yeah? So, first, 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:17.480 it's already happened. We grew net income the last two quarters. Uh. 0:29:17.520 --> 0:29:20.160 And the great thing is that all the proceeds are 0:29:20.160 --> 0:29:21.960 going to use to be used to pay down debt, 0:29:22.240 --> 0:29:24.760 which means our debt payments are going to get cut 0:29:24.800 --> 0:29:28.600 in half. So um, we were profitable in the last 0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:31.200 two quarters. And you know this will put us in 0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:33.680 even a better position. Okay, what kind of dog or 0:29:33.880 --> 0:29:37.360 cut do you have? Or what do you got? Yummy 0:29:37.560 --> 0:29:40.400 was at the ringing the bell today. He's a yellow 0:29:40.640 --> 0:29:43.200 lab twelve years old, the love of our family. And 0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:46.920 so he's actually sitting by my by my feet right now, 0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:50.000 patiently saying when are we going home? Dad? Because we've 0:29:50.000 --> 0:29:54.120 been here doing the uh, the New York City quarantine. 0:29:54.280 --> 0:29:57.680 So we've been here for a while. I gotta say yummy, 0:29:57.720 --> 0:29:59.400 my scout and the rest of us can't wait to 0:29:59.400 --> 0:30:03.000 get out of warrantine. Put go CEO Ron Coglin, that 0:30:03.120 --> 0:30:06.240 company going public just this past week. That wraps up 0:30:06.280 --> 0:30:08.360 the first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business 0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:11.400 Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanovik. 0:30:11.440 --> 0:30:13.800 Still to come in our next hour more on social 0:30:13.800 --> 0:30:17.239 media clamping down on thousands of accounts. We'll talk to 0:30:17.280 --> 0:30:21.440 a social media toxicity tracker, the CEO of Writer plus 0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:23.800 the keeper of more than a thousand patents partnering up 0:30:23.800 --> 0:30:25.960 with household names. We've got the co head of the 0:30:26.000 --> 0:30:30.600 Family Office, Nottingham's Spurk on the intersection of innovation and investment. 0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:33.520 And this week's cover story, it is a good one. 0:30:33.600 --> 0:30:37.720 Elon Musk loves China and China loves him back. For now, 0:30:37.960 --> 0:30:40.480 time will tell of that one and try January. Yep, 0:30:40.680 --> 0:30:42.560 it's a thing, I'm doing it. I know you are 0:30:42.640 --> 0:30:45.480 the CEO and co founder of Athletic Brewing gets real 0:30:45.520 --> 0:30:48.760 and breaks news with us. You brought him to our attention. Tip. Yeah, 0:30:48.760 --> 0:30:50.760 I've been drinking this stuff, not just in January, but 0:30:50.800 --> 0:30:53.200 it actually tastes pretty good and non alcoholic beer. It 0:30:53.320 --> 0:30:56.120 has a bad rap, but it's pretty hot right now, Carol. Yeah, 0:30:56.160 --> 0:30:58.720 it helps with those morning schedules, right, It certainly does. 0:30:58.720 --> 0:31:00.320 I need all the help I can get, all right, 0:31:00.360 --> 0:31:02.960 So grab a non alcoholic beer, a coffee, or whatever 0:31:03.000 --> 0:31:05.840 your beverages of choice. More to come on Bloomberg Business Week. 0:31:05.880 --> 0:31:20.720 This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:31:20.760 --> 0:31:25.120 Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. 0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:29.760 Hi'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanovka Bloomberg Quick Take 0:31:29.840 --> 0:31:32.240 plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition 0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:36.000 of Bloomberg Business Week, including John Nottingham on how his 0:31:36.080 --> 0:31:40.000 family office is taking disruptive innovation and partnering with companies 0:31:40.040 --> 0:31:43.320 to create new businesses and investment returns. Let's Tim, We've 0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:48.240 got this week's cover story. China has really given Tesla 0:31:48.640 --> 0:31:53.280 just an amazing amount of autonomy that most Western companies 0:31:53.520 --> 0:31:56.920 don't enjoy. The love affair between China and Elon Musk. 0:31:57.240 --> 0:32:00.680 So far, so good, so far. Andrew g Anuary, it 0:32:00.880 --> 0:32:03.520 is a thing. The CEO of Athletic Brewing on that 0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:05.960 and breaking some news with us as well on his 0:32:06.040 --> 0:32:08.960 investors and his plans moving forward. Let's kick things off 0:32:08.960 --> 0:32:11.920 this hour with may have Be, former vice president of Mubadala, 0:32:12.000 --> 0:32:14.560 one of the world's largest sovereign wealth funds. As we 0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:17.400 mentioned earlier, one of our big stories this week social 0:32:17.400 --> 0:32:20.200 media and big text shutting down and blocking the accounts 0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:23.680 of President Trump and others. May's co founder and CEO 0:32:23.760 --> 0:32:27.320 of Writer, which tracks toxicity on social media. A really 0:32:27.400 --> 0:32:31.080 timely conversation as President Trump's words and actions are behind 0:32:31.160 --> 0:32:34.760 this week's historic second impeachment. The conversation started off with 0:32:34.800 --> 0:32:37.240 more on what Writer does. We are an a I 0:32:37.320 --> 0:32:41.760 writing assistant, so we help correct language and in addition 0:32:41.840 --> 0:32:47.200 to stylistic and grammar type corrections, um, we will also 0:32:47.240 --> 0:32:51.400 correct on what we call healthy communication. And that's a 0:32:51.440 --> 0:32:54.680 lot of you know, uh, stripping out paths of aggressive 0:32:54.720 --> 0:33:00.520 language and toxic language, mainly for a a workplace use case. 0:33:01.280 --> 0:33:03.080 So if our company has got a website right and 0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:05.160 is doing things that that's what you're that's what you're 0:33:05.160 --> 0:33:07.680 going through. You're making sure that their message comes across 0:33:08.200 --> 0:33:11.800 in a you know, non toxic way. Yes, in addition 0:33:11.880 --> 0:33:15.840 to emails they may find their customers or chats in between, colleague, 0:33:16.400 --> 0:33:19.800 but we basically kind of pointed this very powerful technology 0:33:19.840 --> 0:33:24.200 at the Twitter stream to some interesting results. Yeah. And 0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:27.080 one thing that's really fascinating about this is you've been 0:33:27.120 --> 0:33:31.000 analyzing tweets since the election this fall, including the tweets 0:33:31.000 --> 0:33:35.000 from President Trump, from President Obama, and from President elect 0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:38.360 Joe Biden. And I was surprised to see UM that 0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:41.760 Obama's tweets, even though they have been relatively muted, they've 0:33:41.800 --> 0:33:44.400 come out strongly against the events on Capitol Hill. You 0:33:44.440 --> 0:33:49.000 said that his tweets were classified as toxic between compared 0:33:49.040 --> 0:33:50.800 to us a daily average of less than ten percent. 0:33:50.960 --> 0:33:52.400 I was surprised to see that because I don't I 0:33:52.400 --> 0:33:57.760 don't I wouldn't think of the President Obamas tweets as toxic. Explain, Yeah, absolutely, 0:33:57.760 --> 0:34:00.360 I mean what we tried to build was a data 0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:05.400 set where UM, inflammatory language on both sides of a 0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:10.480 debate is flagged, and you know, aggressive posturing, aggressive language 0:34:10.920 --> 0:34:16.120 is what gets UH flagged. And uh, you know, President 0:34:16.160 --> 0:34:20.279 Obama was absolutely very forceful in his condemnation and that's 0:34:20.320 --> 0:34:23.480 what we picked up on UM. And uh, you know, 0:34:23.560 --> 0:34:26.560 even even if you compare it to the ways in 0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:32.240 which uh biben condemned um. There was you know, different 0:34:32.960 --> 0:34:37.160 different words chosen. UM. Now, of course that makes sense 0:34:37.200 --> 0:34:40.040 politically right. One is a former president, one is an 0:34:40.080 --> 0:34:45.440 incoming president UM for whom UM Uniting both sides of 0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:47.759 the country is something that he's wanted to do, but 0:34:47.840 --> 0:34:50.840 and both are in stark contrast to the language that 0:34:50.920 --> 0:34:53.000 you know. Trump is a regular But I want to 0:34:53.040 --> 0:34:55.120 ask you about that. But what makes something toxic? Is 0:34:55.160 --> 0:34:59.000 it using caps? Is it using exclamation points? What you 0:34:59.000 --> 0:35:03.440 know makes something to toxic? Absolutely all of the above, Carol. 0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:09.759 So our models taken to account punctuations, addiction, since paths, UM, 0:35:09.880 --> 0:35:13.600 and then the actual words so UM, you know, stolen 0:35:14.400 --> 0:35:18.000 if it is in all caps, riggs regardless of how 0:35:18.040 --> 0:35:21.120 you write it, fite regardless of how you write it, UM. 0:35:21.280 --> 0:35:26.120 And then things that are you know, verifiably um, untrue, 0:35:26.719 --> 0:35:28.960 UM you know are also part of UM. Like it's 0:35:28.960 --> 0:35:31.399 flagged as as toxic. So what do you find when 0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:35.239 you tracted our you know, tracked what President Trump has 0:35:35.280 --> 0:35:39.040 put out there? So there were there were some interesting findings. 0:35:39.040 --> 0:35:43.000 The first overall, on January six, all of Twitter was 0:35:43.080 --> 0:35:46.799 quite toxic UM. So thirty two percent of all of 0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:52.520 Twitter um was contained inflammatory of all tweets contains inflammatory 0:35:52.760 --> 0:35:56.440 um language. It was really interesting is Trump's contribution to that. 0:35:56.640 --> 0:36:00.160 I remember he had eighty eight million followers, and and 0:36:00.200 --> 0:36:03.520 beyond just kind of his immediate reach, things were ample. 0:36:03.600 --> 0:36:06.920 Things that Trump tweeted were amplified by virtue of just 0:36:06.960 --> 0:36:10.600 the degree to which he gets liked in and retweeted UM, 0:36:10.680 --> 0:36:13.279 and so by by virtual those eight million followers. What 0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:17.760 we found was language amplified by him, which includes you know, steal, 0:36:17.840 --> 0:36:21.439 the steal, the word fight, the word rigged, um, we're 0:36:21.440 --> 0:36:24.880 actually president. And almost half of all toxic tweets on 0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:28.920 the six across the entire Twitter stream UM, which is 0:36:28.960 --> 0:36:31.480 which is really astounding. I mean, you know, there are 0:36:31.480 --> 0:36:34.000 a lot of ways that people are looking at his 0:36:34.080 --> 0:36:36.919 band from Twitter and and uh you knows being called 0:36:36.960 --> 0:36:40.319 his d platform ization across all of tech um, and 0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:42.960 the reckoning for a Silicon valley, and the First Amendment 0:36:43.000 --> 0:36:45.440 is is really just beginning, all right, that increasing level 0:36:45.480 --> 0:36:47.440 of toxicity. I think, tim, this is gonna be a 0:36:47.480 --> 0:36:48.880 problem that's gonna stick around for a while. And I 0:36:48.960 --> 0:36:51.399 think big big tech social media gonna figure it out. Yeah, 0:36:51.400 --> 0:36:54.120 and and terribly do think that after talking to May 0:36:54.160 --> 0:36:56.960 it's it's clear that this type of language is seeping 0:36:56.960 --> 0:36:59.440 into places that aren't just online. Right. I was kind 0:36:59.440 --> 0:37:01.120 of surprised by some of the numbers, she said, even 0:37:01.160 --> 0:37:04.400 among people that we thought would not have toxic tweets. 0:37:04.400 --> 0:37:06.560 But it's considered it once you do some analysis. Yeah, 0:37:06.560 --> 0:37:09.440 it's all about that natural language processing. I know exactly 0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:13.280 n LP. Is that what they call it? Uh an LP? Yeah, 0:37:13.320 --> 0:37:15.040 I had to do it in my head there all right. 0:37:15.080 --> 0:37:17.960 That was writer, co founder and CEO may have been. 0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:20.360 You can hear that full conversation on our podcast feed. 0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:23.759 You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week coming up. There's a 0:37:23.880 --> 0:37:26.960 big boom in home product We catch up with Nottingham Sparks, 0:37:27.040 --> 0:37:31.520 co president on business innovation and product design. This is Bloomberg. 0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:45.120 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg 0:37:45.239 --> 0:37:49.439 Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. We definitely said 0:37:49.480 --> 0:37:51.680 it a lot on air over the past twelve months, 0:37:51.680 --> 0:37:54.200 how disruption in times of stress and strain definitely lead 0:37:54.239 --> 0:37:56.560 to innovation. Yeah, I like the silver lining to what's 0:37:56.600 --> 0:37:59.040 happening now here And one of our guests knows all 0:37:59.080 --> 0:38:03.520 about that. He his family office hold over patents of 0:38:03.560 --> 0:38:08.680 which have been commercialized, including the Crestspin toothbrush and Swiffer 0:38:08.760 --> 0:38:11.360 sweeper vac. Come on, that's like a mainstain in everybody's 0:38:11.400 --> 0:38:13.560 homes or anything, especially during the pandemic when we're in 0:38:13.560 --> 0:38:15.839 our homes more than ever before. So we got up 0:38:15.840 --> 0:38:18.440 with John Nottingham. He's co president of the family office 0:38:18.440 --> 0:38:21.839 that specializes in innovation. It's called Nottingham Spurke. John also 0:38:21.920 --> 0:38:24.520 serves on the boards of the Cleveland Clinic Board of Trustees, 0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:29.200 Case Western Reserve University Technology Commercialization Board, and a lot more. 0:38:29.239 --> 0:38:31.440 He's a busy man. This past year though, to him tough, 0:38:32.080 --> 0:38:34.120 but as we heard from John, it also opened up 0:38:34.200 --> 0:38:37.560 doors for innovation. You look at the current events and 0:38:37.600 --> 0:38:40.840 you look at you look at the world at face value, 0:38:40.880 --> 0:38:43.480 and you say, look, how does that affect me? How 0:38:43.520 --> 0:38:47.400 does that affect my my partners, clients and and UH 0:38:47.520 --> 0:38:50.920 co workers, and and you look at you look past 0:38:51.080 --> 0:38:55.160 the noise, and you look for for opportunity, and you 0:38:55.200 --> 0:38:58.560 know there is opportunity and disruption. So that's what we're 0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:01.240 focused on. Well, tell me in terms of the disruption 0:39:01.239 --> 0:39:03.560 you're seeing and where that has led you in terms 0:39:03.600 --> 0:39:08.440 of innovation and opportunities. Well, you know, we have the 0:39:08.880 --> 0:39:11.839 core of our firm here is a product innovation firm. 0:39:11.920 --> 0:39:15.680 So we are vertically integrated to have you know, insights 0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:19.600 and design and engineers and prototypers all at one location 0:39:19.640 --> 0:39:23.640 in Cleveland, Ohio. And when we see an opportunity, we 0:39:23.760 --> 0:39:26.000 grab it. So give me. I'll give you an example. 0:39:26.040 --> 0:39:30.480 As soon as as soon as the pandemic hit, we said, okay, uh, 0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:34.640 where's the where's the demand for product? We saw a 0:39:34.640 --> 0:39:38.640 hand sanitizer. Well, great, hand sanitizer is great, but but 0:39:38.760 --> 0:39:40.880 one of the one of the problems is you have 0:39:41.000 --> 0:39:43.759 to touch it to dispense the product, so you know 0:39:43.800 --> 0:39:46.480 who has touched it before that. So what we did 0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:50.600 is we fast tracked a product into the marketplace that's 0:39:50.640 --> 0:39:53.520 hand sanitizer, but you don't have to touch it. It 0:39:53.680 --> 0:39:57.360 just dispenses it right in your hand. That's pretty amazing 0:39:57.880 --> 0:40:01.239 how we were able to quickly do that. Well, we 0:40:01.600 --> 0:40:04.640 because we're vertically integrated, we have all the we have 0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:08.440 all the engineers and designers and people, and we can 0:40:08.480 --> 0:40:11.880 just fast track it. We we grab a factory, we 0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:14.279 we get we get a launch partner and we just 0:40:14.360 --> 0:40:16.960 launched it. So if you go into Lows right now 0:40:17.000 --> 0:40:19.839 as an example, we we we launched it Lows. They 0:40:19.880 --> 0:40:23.279 bought everything that we could we could uh produce and 0:40:23.440 --> 0:40:26.080 uh you know the stack to the ceiling at Lows 0:40:26.160 --> 0:40:28.040 and then we're going to roll it out to other 0:40:28.080 --> 0:40:30.640 retailers as soon as we can. We can catch up 0:40:30.640 --> 0:40:33.880 with the band. But we've sold million we've made. This 0:40:33.920 --> 0:40:37.720 didn't exist in March, and we're making millions of product 0:40:37.840 --> 0:40:40.640 right today. Yeah, it's pretty fascinating because you know, we 0:40:40.719 --> 0:40:42.279 focus so much. You know, we've been talking a lot 0:40:42.280 --> 0:40:44.799 about t vs and a ton of his vehicles. Like 0:40:45.040 --> 0:40:48.880 it's innovation often leads you to very very high tech stuff, 0:40:48.880 --> 0:40:52.560 but sometimes it's just some very simple solutions like what 0:40:52.600 --> 0:40:55.439 you guys are working on. Oh, it could be low tech. 0:40:55.520 --> 0:40:58.600 For instance, we work with a number of portfolio companies 0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:01.600 that have product and you know they have they have 0:41:01.719 --> 0:41:04.480 margin issues. Well, we could go in and pick a 0:41:04.560 --> 0:41:07.640 look at that product, tear it apart and put it 0:41:07.680 --> 0:41:11.840 back together and uh delivered twice the margin they had before. 0:41:12.200 --> 0:41:16.200 Keep the price, but the margins multiplied. And so those 0:41:16.200 --> 0:41:18.160 are the kind of we have to react, we have 0:41:18.280 --> 0:41:20.799 to pivot we have to be nimble and we just 0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:23.400 have to react to the market as we see it 0:41:23.440 --> 0:41:25.960 today dot not not as we saw it yesterday. Your 0:41:26.040 --> 0:41:29.759 customer today is different today. They're they're thinking different, they 0:41:29.760 --> 0:41:32.680 have different pain points, and if we can react to 0:41:32.719 --> 0:41:36.120 that before anybody else, we win. You know what has 0:41:36.239 --> 0:41:38.920 changed about the consumer in the last year that you 0:41:38.920 --> 0:41:42.480 think really stays with us longer term? Oh my goodness, 0:41:42.560 --> 0:41:47.400 I mean yeah, we're I mean, first of all, that 0:41:47.480 --> 0:41:51.040 we're everybody's at home, all right. Guess what? There is 0:41:51.080 --> 0:41:55.959 a boom in home products. I can tell you specific Uh, 0:41:56.239 --> 0:42:00.520 there's a big booming home products, believing John Nottingham, President 0:42:00.920 --> 0:42:05.200 of Nottingham Spurk. It is a family office. It specializes 0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:08.600 in innovation. John still with us on the phone from Cleveland, Ohio. 0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:10.719 It is really fascinating to read about kind of what 0:42:10.760 --> 0:42:13.480 you're doing. John, and I think, you know, we think 0:42:13.520 --> 0:42:16.240 about investing in so many different ways. You know, obviously 0:42:16.280 --> 0:42:19.040 directly through the market you can go into a venture 0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:23.000 fund and angel fund. But you guys really are there, 0:42:23.000 --> 0:42:26.239 you know, in the thick of it creating the innovation. 0:42:26.840 --> 0:42:28.759 How does it all work? How long does it take 0:42:28.800 --> 0:42:31.360 for you to create something that ultimately a P and 0:42:31.400 --> 0:42:35.600 G or you know, another big company you know, sees 0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:37.040 it and says, okay, we want to run with it. 0:42:37.080 --> 0:42:40.920 There's a product here for us. Um how does it work? Well, 0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:43.120 you know, it all starts with a customer. You know, 0:42:43.200 --> 0:42:45.200 you look at you look at the customer and like 0:42:45.239 --> 0:42:48.960 we said, today's customers is thinking totally different than than 0:42:49.400 --> 0:42:52.120 than that customer was a year ago or six months ago. 0:42:52.600 --> 0:42:54.440 And you've got to sort of tap in. So we 0:42:54.520 --> 0:42:58.200 bring customers into our innovation hub, into our center. We 0:42:58.280 --> 0:43:00.200 have a focus group. We watch them through a two 0:43:00.200 --> 0:43:03.239 way mirror today and we say, what what is their 0:43:03.239 --> 0:43:05.640 pain points? What are they thinking about? What? What do 0:43:05.680 --> 0:43:08.759 they want? And then and then we have our engineers 0:43:08.760 --> 0:43:11.799 and designers watching them, what seeing the twiggle in their eyes, 0:43:11.800 --> 0:43:15.200 seeing their their body language. And then we run downstairs 0:43:15.239 --> 0:43:17.719 and we build it. We we you know, we design it, 0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:20.359 we build it, we put it together, we fast track 0:43:20.440 --> 0:43:22.840 it through a factory, and we get it in that 0:43:22.960 --> 0:43:26.240 customer's hands as quickly as possible. You've got to strike 0:43:26.239 --> 0:43:28.080 while that iron is hot and be the first one 0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:31.560 out there. I have to say, there's a listener who's 0:43:31.600 --> 0:43:35.360 hearing our conversation, said kind to ask him about Polar Delight. Um, 0:43:35.400 --> 0:43:37.239 I mean this is another thing that you guys were 0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:41.839 involved incorrect. Oh, yeah, so we've invented we've invented a 0:43:41.840 --> 0:43:46.440 new way to consume premium ice cream. Okay, it's not 0:43:46.560 --> 0:43:49.600 out there yet. We're working on it. We're fast tracking it, 0:43:50.120 --> 0:43:52.239 and it is going to change the way people think 0:43:52.280 --> 0:43:56.120 about ice cream the same way that carrig and espresso 0:43:56.360 --> 0:43:59.359 change changed the way people think about coffee. Just think 0:43:59.400 --> 0:44:03.240 about it is something we'll have in our homes potentially. Uh, 0:44:03.280 --> 0:44:07.239 you know, probably it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna go 0:44:07.320 --> 0:44:11.520 out for two convenience stores first. But it's a technology. 0:44:11.520 --> 0:44:15.480 It's a platform technology, and platform technologies you can just 0:44:15.560 --> 0:44:20.000 grow and grow and grow. It's fascinating. Another listeners saying, Okay, 0:44:20.080 --> 0:44:22.480 so are you guys manufacturing in the United States? Like, 0:44:22.880 --> 0:44:26.279 how do you kind of get your hands around some 0:44:26.480 --> 0:44:29.600 of the discussions we've had this year, whether it's supply chains, 0:44:30.080 --> 0:44:33.560 whether it's a thinking about kind of developing industries here, 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:35.840 and you guys are obviously working on a global scale, 0:44:35.880 --> 0:44:38.960 but uh, the need for sustainability, the impact on climate, 0:44:39.000 --> 0:44:41.319 Like how does that affect some of your innovation that 0:44:41.360 --> 0:44:43.080 you're doing. And obviously it sounds like, you know, you're 0:44:43.080 --> 0:44:46.240 looking at the consumer who now wants things like directly, 0:44:46.480 --> 0:44:49.440 maybe we want to cut out you know, e commerce 0:44:49.600 --> 0:44:52.520 just got kind of a kick in the pants over 0:44:52.560 --> 0:44:55.480 the last twelve months specifically, So how do you kind 0:44:55.480 --> 0:44:58.200 of work all of that in as well? Oh see 0:44:58.200 --> 0:45:00.879 if that see, that's what excites us. I mean, it's 0:45:00.920 --> 0:45:04.960 all about opportunity, right and so, uh so what we 0:45:05.080 --> 0:45:08.359 do is, you know, we have this partnership with Ernston Young. Look, 0:45:08.400 --> 0:45:10.279 I think it makes sense that they see themselves as 0:45:10.320 --> 0:45:13.280 sort of Albert Einstein like in in what they're doing. 0:45:13.560 --> 0:45:16.920 That's Nottingham Spirit co President of the Family Office, John Nottingham. 0:45:17.280 --> 0:45:19.279 Very cool the work that they're doing coming up someone 0:45:19.320 --> 0:45:22.920 who knows also a lot about innovation and apparently tim 0:45:22.920 --> 0:45:24.959 how to get things done in China. Well, that's because 0:45:25.000 --> 0:45:28.799 the world's largest market for electric vehicles loves elon Musk 0:45:28.880 --> 0:45:31.640 at least for now. TikTok. I'm just going to say 0:45:31.840 --> 0:45:34.080 that story coming up next, that's our cover story. This 0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:45.120 is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer 0:45:45.360 --> 0:45:49.879 and Bloomberg Quick takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. So Tim, 0:45:49.920 --> 0:45:52.360 this week's cover story. It's a smart one. It was 0:45:52.360 --> 0:45:55.000 a team effort. It's about the love affair between Elon 0:45:55.080 --> 0:45:58.279 Musk and China, and so far, so good, and yet 0:45:58.360 --> 0:46:00.640 we got more from one of the editors of this story, 0:46:00.680 --> 0:46:04.040 Bloomberg business Week Features editor Max Chafkin, who joined us 0:46:04.080 --> 0:46:07.319 along with Bloomberg business Week editor Joel Weber. Like many 0:46:07.320 --> 0:46:09.440 stories at Bloomberg, Carroll, you mentioned this, there were a 0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:12.160 lot of people involved to make it happen. The story 0:46:12.200 --> 0:46:16.680 is a real repeating, a real reporting, UM feat and 0:46:17.800 --> 0:46:23.080 the story is ultimately about how Tesla, UM and China 0:46:23.520 --> 0:46:28.640 find themselves in this little love affair. And UM hints 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:32.239 why our cover line is China's favorite capitalist and that 0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:38.240 refers to Elon Musk and China has really given Tesla 0:46:38.640 --> 0:46:43.279 just an amazing amount of autonomy that most Western companies 0:46:43.480 --> 0:46:47.640 don't enjoy UM when they do business in China. And 0:46:48.040 --> 0:46:53.400 it's been rewarded UM by being able to have this autonomy. 0:46:53.480 --> 0:46:57.600 And Tesla's behaved basically by by having its own Tesla 0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:04.440 Chinese operation basically become all autonomous within UM, within Tesla itself. 0:47:05.080 --> 0:47:07.440 UM but you know what what this really comes down 0:47:07.480 --> 0:47:10.040 to is, you know what's in it for China here 0:47:10.640 --> 0:47:12.400 and we'll bring Max in on that note. You know, 0:47:12.680 --> 0:47:15.360 one of the things that China has been able to 0:47:15.400 --> 0:47:20.080 accomplish here is to almost use Tesla as uh, you know, 0:47:20.120 --> 0:47:23.120 like almost like a whipping agent that it can kind 0:47:23.120 --> 0:47:26.880 of kick the rest of its ev aspirations into ligne 0:47:26.880 --> 0:47:30.600 with Max. What what is the in game, um, both 0:47:30.680 --> 0:47:33.919 for for Elon and for China, do you think so? 0:47:34.239 --> 0:47:36.680 On the China side, Uh, there are there are a 0:47:36.680 --> 0:47:40.240 few things. So so one, as you said, Chinese government 0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:44.240 is very committed to electric vehicles. So so that means 0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:47.719 that you know, there are a zillion sort of incentive 0:47:48.600 --> 0:47:51.640 for purchases of electric cars as well as sort of 0:47:51.719 --> 0:47:54.719 disincentive taxes and that sort of thing on those who 0:47:54.719 --> 0:47:58.640 want to purchase um, you know, conventional vehicles, gas power vehicles. 0:47:58.640 --> 0:48:00.680 So so China's got this I yeah, you know, this 0:48:00.719 --> 0:48:02.640 is just part of it. The sort of grand plan 0:48:02.840 --> 0:48:06.640 is is to create this gigantic um electric car industry. 0:48:07.160 --> 0:48:10.640 And you know, from the sort of Chinese economic policy 0:48:10.680 --> 0:48:13.600 maker point of view, having Tesla in this country especially 0:48:13.640 --> 0:48:16.440 and especially having a test of factory in the country, 0:48:16.480 --> 0:48:18.279 and that's that's one of the ways in which they 0:48:18.920 --> 0:48:21.920 really helped Tesla. You know, is a boon too to 0:48:22.440 --> 0:48:25.880 China because um, you know, it's it's not just the factory, 0:48:25.880 --> 0:48:28.600 it's the supply chain. So on one hand, like Tesla 0:48:28.640 --> 0:48:31.879 brings added competition, maybe that gives a sort of kick 0:48:32.200 --> 0:48:35.680 to the other Chinese electric car makers, but it also 0:48:35.880 --> 0:48:38.839 creates this supply chain where you have the people who 0:48:38.880 --> 0:48:41.719 supply batteries and people who supply breaks you know, uh, 0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:45.480 software whatever, like all of that gets set into this 0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:48.920 this factory in China, and that helps the local economy. Um. 0:48:48.960 --> 0:48:50.680 You know. On the Tesla side, it's kind of the 0:48:50.719 --> 0:48:53.239 same thing, which is that this is a big uh, 0:48:53.360 --> 0:48:56.560 this is a growth market. It's it's arguably, um, you know, 0:48:56.640 --> 0:49:00.920 the most important electric vehicle market. It's it's where right 0:49:00.960 --> 0:49:03.719 now at least you know, Tesla's growth is going to 0:49:03.800 --> 0:49:08.120 come from. And uh, what sort of makes this interesting 0:49:08.239 --> 0:49:10.719 is that, you know, Elon Musk has been able to 0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:13.359 really underappreciated. Part of about Elon Musk is that he's 0:49:13.400 --> 0:49:15.440 he's very good at politics. Um, you know, at a 0:49:15.480 --> 0:49:18.520 time when you know, there's been this trade war, when 0:49:18.560 --> 0:49:21.000 when lots of other companies have have struggled with China. 0:49:21.239 --> 0:49:24.440 He's been able to kind of figure out a way 0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:26.160 to work it so that he's able to to open 0:49:26.160 --> 0:49:30.120 this factory, make Beijing happy, uh, and and sort of 0:49:30.200 --> 0:49:32.360 do do a lot of business. That The risk, of course, 0:49:32.640 --> 0:49:35.239 is that really at any time, you know that the 0:49:35.560 --> 0:49:40.360 scales could change and China could create additional restrictions or 0:49:40.400 --> 0:49:42.600 do all sorts of stuff that would make Tesla's life 0:49:42.640 --> 0:49:46.320 not so great. Could do other companies? Can other companies 0:49:46.400 --> 0:49:49.480 learn from what Elon Musk has has done in China? 0:49:49.560 --> 0:49:52.319 How Elon Musk has been able to succeed in a 0:49:52.360 --> 0:49:54.759 place where so many American companies haven't been able to 0:49:54.800 --> 0:49:57.480 because they have to be so jealous Max, because it's 0:49:57.520 --> 0:50:00.080 been so hard for everybody else and it's taken a 0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:04.400 long time to kind of get any kind of foothold there. Yeah, 0:50:04.440 --> 0:50:07.600 I mean, I think that you know, Tesla had certain 0:50:07.800 --> 0:50:09.840 things going for it that that Ellen was able to 0:50:10.280 --> 0:50:12.400 take advantage of it. I don't know that this is 0:50:12.640 --> 0:50:15.319 I'm not sure there's a sort of like a how 0:50:15.400 --> 0:50:19.560 to lesson here, to be honest, because um, Joel kind 0:50:19.560 --> 0:50:23.800 of hinted at this, but having Elon Musk open a 0:50:23.880 --> 0:50:27.879 factory in China has not just economic value to UH, 0:50:27.920 --> 0:50:30.560 to Beijing, it has kind of propaganda value, you know, 0:50:30.600 --> 0:50:34.560 at a time when you know, when sort of American 0:50:34.600 --> 0:50:37.520 companies are dealing with you know, lots of hostility. When 0:50:37.600 --> 0:50:40.080 when when there's this trade war going on with Trump, 0:50:40.560 --> 0:50:42.520 um Elon Musk is able to sort of figure that 0:50:42.520 --> 0:50:45.200 out right. He was able to ask for more than 0:50:45.560 --> 0:50:47.880 pretty much anyone could ask for, and he he got 0:50:47.960 --> 0:50:50.880 something that no other car company had gotten, you know 0:50:51.000 --> 0:50:53.879 to date, which is trying to change the rules on 0:50:54.480 --> 0:50:58.040 sort of foreign ownership. UH and and Tesla use that 0:50:58.120 --> 0:51:00.480 to allow to to have a hundred percent ownership of 0:51:00.520 --> 0:51:02.560 it of its joint sensure. So I don't think this 0:51:02.640 --> 0:51:07.200 is a case of of of must doing something that 0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:10.040 you know, other companies that could could emulate. It's it's 0:51:10.080 --> 0:51:13.120 more a case of must having things that China wanted. 0:51:13.360 --> 0:51:16.239 That's our cover story, And as we heard several reporters 0:51:16.239 --> 0:51:19.440 on the story, including Hayes Fan, a member of Bloomberg 0:51:19.440 --> 0:51:23.120 News is Beijing bureau who contributed to this article before 0:51:23.120 --> 0:51:27.200 being detained by Chinese authorities in December. You're listening to 0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:31.160 Bloomberg Business Week. A new year often means new resolutions, 0:51:31.239 --> 0:51:34.080 like giving up alcohol. We'll hear from the CEO of 0:51:34.120 --> 0:51:37.520 Athletic Brewing on celebrating dry January. You gotta say, Tim, 0:51:37.560 --> 0:51:39.720 he got real with Us Brooks. Some news in fact, 0:51:39.920 --> 0:51:44.920 that story coming up next. This is Bloomberg. This is 0:51:44.920 --> 0:51:48.880 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes 0:51:48.960 --> 0:51:52.600 Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. So, Tim, we're gonna end 0:51:52.600 --> 0:51:55.279 our second weekend show together on a lighter note. Did 0:51:55.280 --> 0:51:58.319 you know I'm guessing you did dry January. It's a thing. Yeah. 0:51:58.320 --> 0:51:59.919 I mean I've heard about it over the last years, 0:51:59.920 --> 0:52:01.640 and it's getting more and more popular. It makes sense 0:52:01.640 --> 0:52:03.920 happening after the holidays when we tend to, how do 0:52:03.960 --> 0:52:06.120 you say, indulge a little bit, just a little bit, 0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:08.360 especially this year, this pandemic year. I feel like one 0:52:08.400 --> 0:52:11.319 of the big stories has just been about, you know, 0:52:11.480 --> 0:52:14.360 everybody kind of tapping into their favorite beverage. Yeah, I 0:52:14.400 --> 0:52:17.360 did it more alcoholic. Yes, at the beginning of the pandemic, 0:52:17.360 --> 0:52:19.440 there was a lot of wine consumed in our household. 0:52:19.480 --> 0:52:21.080 We've cut that quite a bit, though, And I gotta 0:52:21.120 --> 0:52:23.279 say we got to catch up with Athletic Brewing co 0:52:23.360 --> 0:52:25.719 founder and CEO Bill Schuefeld. This was somebody you brought 0:52:25.760 --> 0:52:28.000 to our attention, and he saw opportunity in the non 0:52:28.040 --> 0:52:30.960 alcoholic beer market and the timing is particularly right for 0:52:31.040 --> 0:52:33.319 his company. Check it out. Going into the new year 0:52:33.480 --> 0:52:36.080 such a great time for people to kind of hit 0:52:36.160 --> 0:52:40.000 pause gold and thinking about what they want to achieve 0:52:40.000 --> 0:52:43.200 in the year ahead. That could be professionally, it could 0:52:43.239 --> 0:52:45.560 be with their diet, it could be workouts, it could 0:52:45.600 --> 0:52:52.280 be sleep, mindfulness, relationships, anything. And there's one pretty consistent variable. 0:52:52.360 --> 0:52:56.239 If you pull alcohol and some unhealthy eating out of that, 0:52:56.480 --> 0:52:59.080 it makes it really easy to focus on what your 0:52:59.080 --> 0:53:02.120 goals are and like really kick start the year in 0:53:02.120 --> 0:53:06.320 a productive way. And it's a trend that's been increasingly popular, 0:53:06.560 --> 0:53:10.040 like exponentially so over the past few years. UM over 0:53:10.920 --> 0:53:15.000 US adults participated in dry January last year, and anecdotally 0:53:15.040 --> 0:53:17.319 it feels much higher this year. Bill. I know the 0:53:17.400 --> 0:53:21.560 company's in in sort of growth mode right now. Um 0:53:21.680 --> 0:53:24.720 do you see a big uptick in sales in January? 0:53:24.800 --> 0:53:30.400 Typically we do, um YEA. So the average uptick month 0:53:30.440 --> 0:53:33.480 over month from January to December the past two years 0:53:33.560 --> 0:53:37.359 has been about UM. I will say this year, our 0:53:37.400 --> 0:53:43.240 website traffic is up about month month over months even Wow. 0:53:43.280 --> 0:53:47.520 So what does that mean in real numbers? Um? Yeah, 0:53:47.560 --> 0:53:52.520 So in terms of so it's estimated that over fifty million, 0:53:53.320 --> 0:53:57.719 over fifty million Americans specifically participate in dry January. But 0:53:58.239 --> 0:54:01.360 in the broader population three percent of US adults have 0:54:01.480 --> 0:54:04.279 point one drinks or less per week. So there's a 0:54:04.360 --> 0:54:07.799 big misconception about the like the pool of adults who 0:54:07.880 --> 0:54:11.200 don't drink on any given week, UM, where non alcoholic 0:54:11.200 --> 0:54:14.160 beverages has always been thought about these really small penalty 0:54:14.200 --> 0:54:18.360 box markets like people in recovery, people who are currently 0:54:18.400 --> 0:54:22.040 not drinking for very specific medical reason, where really it's 0:54:22.080 --> 0:54:24.600 actually the majority of adults and the majority of the 0:54:24.640 --> 0:54:27.400 days of the week where not drinking may make sense. 0:54:27.880 --> 0:54:30.920 And then at the beginning of the year almost more 0:54:31.000 --> 0:54:35.839 south where like those markets triple basically UM in terms 0:54:35.880 --> 0:54:39.040 of the category growth for non alcoholic beer, non alcoholic 0:54:39.080 --> 0:54:42.960 gear as a whole, including all the big macro brands 0:54:43.000 --> 0:54:47.120 that have been up forever UM it for so Athletic 0:54:47.120 --> 0:54:50.239 Bring launched in two thousand eighteen. UM non alcoholic beer 0:54:50.280 --> 0:54:54.000 group six percent in two thousand in two thousand nine, 0:54:54.680 --> 0:55:00.239 and in it grew over across the country. UM. We're 0:55:00.800 --> 0:55:03.160 but like as our company grows, wrapping a bigger and 0:55:03.200 --> 0:55:07.520 bigger impact on those numbers. UM. The craft segments specifically 0:55:07.560 --> 0:55:11.200 grew three and nine percent last year, and craft non 0:55:11.200 --> 0:55:15.160 alcoholic beer an athletic kind of share of that market. Tim, 0:55:15.200 --> 0:55:19.600 you're a non alcoholic I am, and it's interesting. I'm 0:55:19.640 --> 0:55:22.320 not exclusively a non alcoholic beer drinker. But that's the 0:55:22.360 --> 0:55:24.880 reason why I wanted to get Bill on our show 0:55:24.960 --> 0:55:27.160 is because the way that my own habits have changed 0:55:27.239 --> 0:55:29.839 during the pandemic and also with with starting this new job, 0:55:29.880 --> 0:55:32.640 which requires me to get up so much earlier. So 0:55:32.680 --> 0:55:34.800 what I've decided to do is actually not drink alcohol 0:55:34.920 --> 0:55:37.000 during the week. A friend of mine made the recommendation 0:55:37.040 --> 0:55:39.520 to me, who hosts radio very early in the morning, 0:55:39.520 --> 0:55:40.839 and he said, that is the key to a good 0:55:40.920 --> 0:55:44.360 night's sleep. UM, and I actually drink. I do drink 0:55:44.400 --> 0:55:49.439 athletic athletic brewing beer. UM. But it's also interesting because 0:55:49.440 --> 0:55:54.200 I've noticed that the marketing is not traditional beer marketing, right. 0:55:54.360 --> 0:55:57.000 This is a company that that seems to embrace the 0:55:57.040 --> 0:55:59.480 idea of UM. It's sort of like you know, Bill, 0:55:59.520 --> 0:56:02.440 I think of out Agonia like the company Patagonia. When 0:56:02.440 --> 0:56:04.840 I see your marketing, it's very focused on like the 0:56:04.920 --> 0:56:09.360 outdoors and skiing and mountain biking. Um, what the environment 0:56:09.600 --> 0:56:11.480 tied to the environment. What is the message that you're 0:56:11.480 --> 0:56:13.680 going for, because, as you mentioned, it does seem like 0:56:14.160 --> 0:56:16.279 non alcoholic beer has has gotten a really bad rap 0:56:16.360 --> 0:56:21.439 because in the past, bad taste has been associated with it. Yeah, 0:56:21.480 --> 0:56:24.759 it's so funny, and it's like what the company was 0:56:24.800 --> 0:56:27.560 born out of. It's exactly the occasion set that you're 0:56:27.560 --> 0:56:30.919 talking about. I was a huge foodie, craft beer guy. 0:56:30.960 --> 0:56:34.319 I loved alforts of social family, every like all sorts 0:56:34.360 --> 0:56:37.560 of normal occasions. But I also had this very serious 0:56:37.560 --> 0:56:39.799 stage job at a large hedge fund. I loved waking 0:56:39.880 --> 0:56:42.640 up at five o'clock, working out, being on point all day. 0:56:43.120 --> 0:56:45.360 I was starting to run ultra marathons on the weekend 0:56:46.160 --> 0:56:49.440 and really in that alcohol had a smaller and smaller place, 0:56:49.719 --> 0:56:51.680 But I still wanted a great beer I could have 0:56:51.800 --> 0:56:55.400 during the week and wake up at five o'clock. And 0:56:55.440 --> 0:56:58.360 I quickly realized in cutting back on alcohol, I was 0:56:58.440 --> 0:57:00.800 sleeping right through the night for the first time in years. 0:57:00.880 --> 0:57:03.399 I was on point all day, my workouts were great 0:57:03.719 --> 0:57:06.279 and it was like the best life pack I'd ever uncovered. 0:57:06.440 --> 0:57:10.120 And so like my very normal modern adult lifestyle led 0:57:10.200 --> 0:57:13.920 us in this direction to discover non alcoholic beer. And 0:57:13.960 --> 0:57:16.560 then when I got there, I found out non alcoholic beer, 0:57:17.080 --> 0:57:19.600 if you take out the alcohol, which is a diuretic 0:57:19.600 --> 0:57:23.560 and super dehydrating, non alcoholic beer is actually full of electrolytes, 0:57:23.600 --> 0:57:28.080 it's anti inflammatory, it's super low in calories. Our flagship 0:57:28.080 --> 0:57:32.840 Goldenhil's fifty calories and removed um, so you can kind 0:57:32.880 --> 0:57:34.640 of have your cake and eat it too and get 0:57:34.640 --> 0:57:36.720 a great night sleep, not of all the calories in 0:57:36.760 --> 0:57:40.040 the weekend and stuff um. In terms of the brand 0:57:40.080 --> 0:57:44.080 ethos um, we really wanted to make non alcoholic beer 0:57:44.240 --> 0:57:48.320 positive and aspirational for the first time, and we're all about. 0:57:48.960 --> 0:57:53.360 The thing that made me go from like even considering 0:57:53.680 --> 0:57:57.200 quitting a very stable financial job was the positive impact 0:57:57.280 --> 0:58:02.360 we could have. And that's all positive impact on our stomers, health, activity, fitness, 0:58:02.400 --> 0:58:06.000 and ultimately then their communities in the environment. And yeah, 0:58:06.040 --> 0:58:08.080 we've donate two percent of all sales the trail and 0:58:08.120 --> 0:58:12.680 park cleanups, and it's like in terms of being all 0:58:12.720 --> 0:58:17.960 about being healthy active, outdoors and inclusive. Um, we only 0:58:17.960 --> 0:58:20.760 get one chance at this environment, and we are making 0:58:20.760 --> 0:58:23.600 a huge den as a company having it hard coded 0:58:23.680 --> 0:58:26.240 in our ethos from the start, and we'd really like 0:58:26.320 --> 0:58:30.400 to see more companies do that, honestly, Like two of 0:58:30.560 --> 0:58:32.960 sales isn't the biggest number in the world, but it 0:58:33.000 --> 0:58:35.680 makes a huge den But if you get enough people 0:58:35.680 --> 0:58:39.480 doing it, that two percent becomes something significant and impactful. Hey, 0:58:39.480 --> 0:58:41.040 But one thing I want to ask you. When I said, like, 0:58:41.080 --> 0:58:43.280 give me some more of the numbers, you said website 0:58:43.320 --> 0:58:47.560 traffic up month over month. So are you guys profitable? 0:58:47.560 --> 0:58:49.640 And I'm trying to just get an idea because the 0:58:49.720 --> 0:58:54.000 non alcoholic beverage market, um, whether it's beers in spirits 0:58:54.000 --> 0:58:56.280 and things like that or just water and juice is 0:58:56.320 --> 0:58:59.640 I mean, it's massive. We have so many choices now 0:58:59.680 --> 0:59:01.240 a day. So I'm just trying to get an idea 0:59:01.360 --> 0:59:03.920 of the financials for you. I'm thinking about our audience 0:59:03.920 --> 0:59:06.080 who are like certainly into this and they're looking for 0:59:06.160 --> 0:59:09.400 alternatives and disruptions, certainly in the beverage market. So give 0:59:09.400 --> 0:59:11.960 me an idea. Are you profitable? What kind of sales 0:59:11.960 --> 0:59:16.480 are you seeing, um, and where are you selling yeah, Um, 0:59:17.080 --> 0:59:20.640 so we are nationwise on our website. Um, we're pretty 0:59:20.680 --> 0:59:23.720 much the only true e commerce care platform there is 0:59:24.240 --> 0:59:26.720 because non alcoholic beer, we can ship direct the customer 0:59:26.800 --> 0:59:30.400 nationwide off our website, which is a huge advantage. And 0:59:30.560 --> 0:59:34.320 that's been soaring during covid UM and with everyone shopping 0:59:34.360 --> 0:59:40.760 from home in we grew over despite having pretty much 0:59:41.440 --> 0:59:46.600 of our marketing ideas taken off the table. Um. And yeah, 0:59:46.720 --> 0:59:50.200 we finished in the mid double digit millions in revenue 0:59:50.480 --> 0:59:52.880 UM and we're planning to do over three times that 0:59:53.040 --> 0:59:57.880 near ahead. UM. Yeah, so we're super excited that we're 0:59:57.960 --> 1:00:01.640 basically able to exceed our goals for the year, even 1:00:02.240 --> 1:00:05.880 even with the environment we're currently and and in terms 1:00:05.920 --> 1:00:09.720 of profitability, we weren't profitable last year, but a big 1:00:09.720 --> 1:00:12.560 part of that is we purchased a big facility in 1:00:12.600 --> 1:00:15.919 southern California where we could connect our production and really 1:00:15.960 --> 1:00:19.920 go national. Well let's talk about this production. UM, what 1:00:20.040 --> 1:00:21.760 are the what is the product lineup that you have 1:00:21.920 --> 1:00:26.439 right now? And how are you thinking about expansion? Yeah, 1:00:26.640 --> 1:00:30.240 so we have two flag three flagships that have won 1:00:30.320 --> 1:00:35.280 awards all over the US and internationally, UM, World Beer Awards, 1:00:35.320 --> 1:00:38.560 International Beer challenge. Our flagship Run Wild ip A just 1:00:38.600 --> 1:00:41.800 won the gold in the US Beer Championship. They're all 1:00:42.000 --> 1:00:47.280 very approachable. UM are so our upside don golden nails, 1:00:47.320 --> 1:00:51.120 fifty calories crafted to remove gluten. It's incredibly like drinking 1:00:51.280 --> 1:00:55.120 slightly hotty Pilsing are basically UM a great crisp beer 1:00:55.160 --> 1:00:57.920 for any occasion. Our run Wild i p A is 1:00:57.920 --> 1:01:01.800 a super approachable West Coast ip A, seventy calories crafted 1:01:01.960 --> 1:01:05.960 UM made with all organic grains. UM and that's probably 1:01:05.960 --> 1:01:09.560 our top selling beer. And then UM, probably our hardest 1:01:09.640 --> 1:01:12.160 to get beer is our Freeway Hazy i p A, 1:01:12.400 --> 1:01:14.920 which is now year round as well. UM that's available 1:01:14.960 --> 1:01:20.000 for subscription on our website. Capacity always was our biggest problem, 1:01:20.160 --> 1:01:23.600 especially in two that nineteen UM and through read that 1:01:23.800 --> 1:01:27.200 limited releases where they sell out online in thirty seconds 1:01:27.240 --> 1:01:33.320 and people would be extremely frustrated by that. Yeah, it's good. 1:01:33.520 --> 1:01:35.320 It's kind of a good problem to have. I think 1:01:36.840 --> 1:01:39.960 it's good, but it's super frustrating. Well, it's certainly something 1:01:40.000 --> 1:01:42.440 those big name investors want to hear, especially if and 1:01:42.480 --> 1:01:45.040 when the company moves forward with an I p O. 1:01:45.160 --> 1:01:47.440 I was surprised Carell to hear that I p O 1:01:47.600 --> 1:01:49.560 is the direction that he wants to go. You don't 1:01:49.600 --> 1:01:52.240 see a lot of independent beverage companies going public. There 1:01:52.320 --> 1:01:55.000 are examples, but oftentimes they're scooped up by the by 1:01:55.000 --> 1:01:57.120 the big guys. It's so hard because the network that's 1:01:57.160 --> 1:02:00.120 out there that's already established from the big play or 1:02:00.200 --> 1:02:02.600 is like they just dominate the world, and so it 1:02:02.680 --> 1:02:05.280 is tougher for the smaller guys. That's Athletic Brewing co 1:02:05.320 --> 1:02:07.400 founder and CEO Bill shoe Felt. You can hear that 1:02:07.440 --> 1:02:11.120 full conversation in our Bloomberg Business Week Extra podcast, and 1:02:11.160 --> 1:02:13.200 that wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week 1:02:13.200 --> 1:02:15.280 from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm 1:02:15.320 --> 1:02:17.720 Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanovk. Be sure to tune 1:02:17.720 --> 1:02:20.240 into the daily show Monday through Friday starting at two 1:02:20.240 --> 1:02:22.240 pm Wall Street Time, and be sure to check out 1:02:22.240 --> 1:02:25.160 our Bloomberg Business Week podcast feed wherever you get your podcast. 1:02:25.200 --> 1:02:28.000 You'll find other conversations from the week, including one with 1:02:28.040 --> 1:02:31.520 the Panasonic Corporation of North America Chairman and CEO Michael Moskowitz, 1:02:31.840 --> 1:02:34.440 who talked about some of the trends the biggest tech 1:02:34.520 --> 1:02:37.640 moments of the year, and don't forget. Bloomberg Business Week 1:02:37.720 --> 1:02:41.200 is also on YouTube. Just search Bloomberg Global News and 1:02:41.240 --> 1:02:43.360 you can also see me on Bloomberg Quick Take available 1:02:43.360 --> 1:02:46.920 on Bloomberg dot com, slash Qt and streaming platforms like Roku, 1:02:47.040 --> 1:02:50.280 Apple TV, Samsung TV, and more. 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