1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,880
Speaker 1: Today's episode of the metsub podcast is sponsored by Anchor.

2
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:04,840
Speaker 1: If you haven't heard about Anchor, it's the easiest way

3
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,880
Speaker 1: to make a podcast. Let me explain. It's free. First off,

4
00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:09,880
Speaker 1: that's huge, and that's what we use here on the

5
00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,559
Speaker 1: met stub podcast. I highly suggest there are creation tools

6
00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:14,760
Speaker 1: that allow you to record and edit your podcast right

7
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,320
Speaker 1: from your own phone or computer. Anchor will distribute your

8
00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,240
Speaker 1: podcast for you so can be heard on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,

9
00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,400
Speaker 1: and many other streaming services, and you're allowed to make

10
00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,160
Speaker 1: money from your podcast from day one with no minimum listenership.

11
00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:27,720
Speaker 1: It's literally everything you need to make a podcast in

12
00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:29,880
Speaker 1: one place, So make sure you guys download the free

13
00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,519
Speaker 1: Anchor app or go to anchor dot fm to get started.

14
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,480
Speaker 1: What is up, metsub listeners? Back here for episode number

15
00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,160
Speaker 1: sixty five of the metsub podcast. Of course, I'm one

16
00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,520
Speaker 1: of your co hosts, Draftneckmark Mark Luino alongside Jamie Shiato

17
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,400
Speaker 1: Jeter had no range talking about the New York Mets. Now,

18
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 1: as we all know, we are in a lockout, so

19
00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,800
Speaker 1: the news and the stories are a little bit slow.

20
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,000
Speaker 1: But since the last episode, which we talked about Max Schurzer,

21
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,760
Speaker 1: there actually has been some stuff to talk about. Jave

22
00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 1: and Stroman they're gone, They've gone elsewhere to you know,

23
00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,520
Speaker 1: different pastures of life. We got manager talks. We got

24
00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,119
Speaker 1: to you know, figure out who's gonna be the manager

25
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,120
Speaker 1: of this team because we still have no idea and

26
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,720
Speaker 1: the list of candidates seems to be growing. Some good,

27
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,399
Speaker 1: some bad, some crazy names that don't even make sense

28
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,240
Speaker 1: have been thrown out there. So we'll talk about all

29
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:33,320
Speaker 1: those guys that are included as well. Gil Hodges, quick

30
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,280
Speaker 1: shout to him. He finally made the Hall of Fame.

31
00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,840
Speaker 1: Huge shout to Gil Hodges, A long time coming. So know,

32
00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:39,759
Speaker 1: a lot of met fans, especially the older ones, are

33
00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 1: super happy about that. And then we're also gonna talk

34
00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,160
Speaker 1: a little bit about the CBA because I saw some

35
00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:45,680
Speaker 1: people reach out to us on Twitter and wanted to

36
00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:47,680
Speaker 1: hear our thoughts on the lockout and the whole Collective

37
00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:50,520
Speaker 1: Bargaining Agreement and the negotiations what's going on there. So

38
00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,440
Speaker 1: that's what you're gonna get here on episode number sixty

39
00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,640
Speaker 1: five of the mets Up Podcast. Make sure you're following

40
00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,440
Speaker 1: us on all our social media Twitter, Instagram, TikTok at

41
00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 1: Metstup Podcast no, just at metstup. I'm sorry. On the

42
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,400
Speaker 1: YouTube channel Mets Up Podcast, where the video content goes.

43
00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 1: Listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, wherever

44
00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,000
Speaker 1: you can find them, you can find us, drop us

45
00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,160
Speaker 1: a five star rating and review. And also we want

46
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,120
Speaker 1: to give a quick shout out to our monthly supporters.

47
00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:15,919
Speaker 1: You can do this through anchor Matt Franklin and Graham Hickson.

48
00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,080
Speaker 1: You guys are legends four ninety nine. Really do appreciate

49
00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,720
Speaker 1: you guys supporting monthly. If you feel like supporting the

50
00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:22,880
Speaker 1: podcast as well, there should be a link somewhere in

51
00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,400
Speaker 1: the description of this episode wherever you listen to it,

52
00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:27,120
Speaker 1: so big shout out to all those guys out there

53
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,480
Speaker 1: supporting as well as well as the viewers who just listen.

54
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:32,400
Speaker 1: We love you. Let's bring in James. How you feeling, James?

55
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,799
Speaker 2: I feel great. It was a great another great week

56
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,200
Speaker 2: for the Messed Up Podcast. Last week, our last episode

57
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,400
Speaker 2: was one of our highest streamed ever, which was amazing,

58
00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:41,720
Speaker 2: So shout out to all listeners out there.

59
00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:42,160
Speaker 3: It's great.

60
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:44,640
Speaker 2: It's fun that we're really feeling good about the Mets

61
00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,080
Speaker 2: until this lockout kind of swept our legs from underneath

62
00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,440
Speaker 2: us this past week, and it is really just blue

63
00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,079
Speaker 2: ball the entire baseball community after two of the most

64
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,120
Speaker 2: exciting weeks that we've ever seen in an off season period.

65
00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, we were like the off season was so sick.

66
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 1: It felt like an NBA or NFL offseason, which always

67
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,359
Speaker 1: happened so fast, it's in the blink of an eye,

68
00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:04,320
Speaker 1: and it felt like baseball was having that direction. But

69
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,959
Speaker 1: of course this lockout hit and that changed everything and

70
00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 1: some of the moves that happened, you know, we got Surezer,

71
00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,720
Speaker 1: Mark Tee cana Escobar, but we did lose a couple

72
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:13,600
Speaker 1: guys and some guys that we thought had a realistic

73
00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,920
Speaker 1: chance going back to the Mets, which were Marcus Stroman

74
00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:16,600
Speaker 1: and Hobby Bias.

75
00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:17,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

76
00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, those these were two of the last moves, like

77
00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,600
Speaker 2: two of like the proverbial buzzer be theres right before

78
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:22,440
Speaker 2: the deadline hit.

79
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:23,919
Speaker 3: Really Stroman was the buzzer be there.

80
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 2: He kind of came out of completely nowhere and was

81
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,560
Speaker 2: like a little bit shocking, and we found out afterwards

82
00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,520
Speaker 2: that he kind of signed his deal again. For all

83
00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,480
Speaker 2: the listeners at home, he signed a three years, seventy

84
00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,680
Speaker 2: one million dollar contract with the Cubs that has escalators

85
00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,440
Speaker 2: up to being three years seventy five million if he

86
00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,000
Speaker 2: throws one hundred and sixty innings each of the next

87
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,760
Speaker 2: two years. He turns out that he was negotiating this

88
00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 2: like a little bit in secrecy and actually flew to

89
00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,480
Speaker 2: Chicago a day before any of these reports came out

90
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,240
Speaker 2: so he could be ready for his physical next day

91
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,320
Speaker 2: when Penn was getting to paper, which I thought was

92
00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,320
Speaker 2: pretty interesting in this like age of like hyperinformation, the

93
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,840
Speaker 2: fact that they were able to keep that under wraps. Eventually,

94
00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:57,760
Speaker 2: Marcus Stroman did break his own deal, which is also

95
00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:58,960
Speaker 2: something that was pretty unique.

96
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was interesting, like the Cubs, you know, their

97
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,360
Speaker 1: whole mentality moving forward as an organization that still seems

98
00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:07,960
Speaker 1: to be up in the air. But it was also

99
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,120
Speaker 1: interesting to see that Marcus Stroman's market seemed to not

100
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 1: really develop much, which was shocking because at the beginning

101
00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,560
Speaker 1: of this offseason on the podcast, we were talking five

102
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,240
Speaker 1: for one to twenty five and that seems like a

103
00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:18,679
Speaker 1: pipe dream based on what he got paid.

104
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think it's just because Marcus Stroman was

105
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 2: much more concerned with that aav rather than longer years

106
00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,520
Speaker 2: of longer guarantees like we mentioned in a couple of

107
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,039
Speaker 2: shows episodes ago, and we broke down how we thought

108
00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,039
Speaker 2: his negotiation would go. That twenty five million dollars threshold,

109
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:34,080
Speaker 2: we said, being the top ten average annual values of

110
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:35,440
Speaker 2: all starting pitchers in baseball.

111
00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:37,800
Speaker 3: So clearly it was more important.

112
00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,160
Speaker 2: Than Marcus Stroman to guarantee more money right now than

113
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,720
Speaker 2: longer term money. Is slightly less of a value because

114
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,240
Speaker 2: I think he's a guy who just believes in his

115
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,479
Speaker 2: own conditioning and his own talent and thinks that if

116
00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,320
Speaker 2: he had the open market in two or three years,

117
00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,680
Speaker 2: depending on if he exercises his opt out, he'll be

118
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,640
Speaker 2: able to get a contract with a similar value, which

119
00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:54,719
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know if I would do it,

120
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,160
Speaker 2: but all the power to him for that.

121
00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:58,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, And seeing that contract too, I was a little

122
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,560
Speaker 1: bit shocked that the Mets weren't in on that for

123
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,800
Speaker 1: the for the short term deal twenty five million dollars

124
00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:04,600
Speaker 1: a year, when it seemed like the five for one

125
00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,640
Speaker 1: to twenty five was realistic, So why not take the

126
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,960
Speaker 1: twenty five million a year on the shorter term. I

127
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,480
Speaker 1: was shocked that the Mets at least didn't have more

128
00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,920
Speaker 1: of a push for Stroman, but it seems like from

129
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,599
Speaker 1: the start he wasn't coming back based on all the reports.

130
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,400
Speaker 2: Definitely, especially after the spending free it felt like neither

131
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:20,880
Speaker 2: of these guys were actually going to come back. Like

132
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,440
Speaker 2: it seems like they negotiated with Baiez like for a

133
00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,320
Speaker 2: brief instance before everything went crazy last weekend last Friday,

134
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:29,839
Speaker 2: and then the money was too much in the years

135
00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,279
Speaker 2: were too much, which clearly ended up being evidently true,

136
00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 2: and then Stroman, it just seems like they had really

137
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:37,240
Speaker 2: other other thoughts the entire time. I have to think

138
00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,720
Speaker 2: that there's at least possibly some kind of way that

139
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,600
Speaker 2: he did maybe alienate himself with some people either in

140
00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,720
Speaker 2: the front office or in the like some of the

141
00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,960
Speaker 2: team executives, or even possibly in the clubhouse at the

142
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,080
Speaker 2: point where it was always kind of clear they weren't

143
00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:52,160
Speaker 2: going to make him a serious offer to come back.

144
00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, And one of the things that you know, Billyeppler's

145
00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:55,919
Speaker 1: talked about since coming in is that he wants to make,

146
00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 1: you know, a culture change, and that was the thing

147
00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:58,760
Speaker 1: that Sures Are harped on to a lot in his

148
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 1: press conferences, that there's going to be a changing of

149
00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,120
Speaker 1: culture in New York. Maybe this doesn't include Marcus Stroman

150
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:05,880
Speaker 1: and that could be part of the reason why they

151
00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:06,920
Speaker 1: didn't want to bring him back.

152
00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,800
Speaker 2: But that Eppler sound bite came out right before the lockout,

153
00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 2: like right after the Stroman contract. Again, that was the

154
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,159
Speaker 2: night that the Mets did all their press conferences. But

155
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,520
Speaker 2: I think it was funny and a little bit ironic

156
00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,320
Speaker 2: that that all came out at the same time.

157
00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:19,839
Speaker 3: And there's no.

158
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,080
Speaker 2: Doubt that, like from a baseball perspective, Marcus Stroman' is

159
00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,039
Speaker 2: a massive loss to this team, like especially a team

160
00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,599
Speaker 2: that needs consistent, reliable innings in a way as badly

161
00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,240
Speaker 2: as the Mets with a very talented top of the rotation.

162
00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,719
Speaker 2: But two guys were pretty old, so just based on

163
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,080
Speaker 2: like logic and probability, like more likely than most other

164
00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 2: guys to get injured. Then another guy across Carrasco who's

165
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,760
Speaker 2: old and very likely to get injured, then a guy

166
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,560
Speaker 2: like Taiwan Walker who's young but still very likely to

167
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,279
Speaker 2: get injured. It would help to have a guy like

168
00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:44,880
Speaker 2: Marcus Stroman to give you, like a bon to five

169
00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,880
Speaker 2: two hundred innings, So that does hurt. But again it

170
00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,559
Speaker 2: just feels like they never really made a serious push

171
00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,559
Speaker 2: to retain him now and then with the Hobby stuff.

172
00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,120
Speaker 1: Like you said, they were a little more engaged in

173
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,280
Speaker 1: talks from the beginning of the offseason when they didn't

174
00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:58,840
Speaker 1: have a GM. And it seems like as soon as

175
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:01,520
Speaker 1: Eppler came in, value for Hobby went right down for

176
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,960
Speaker 1: the Mets, like it just they were still talking to him, apparently,

177
00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:05,800
Speaker 1: but it didn't seem like the Mets were gonna come

178
00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 1: anywhere even close to what the Tigers gave him, which

179
00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:08,720
Speaker 1: came out to what six for.

180
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,360
Speaker 3: One forty I believe it was six for one fifty.

181
00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,840
Speaker 2: I'm looking it up right now, six for one forty,

182
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,080
Speaker 2: which comes out to like a clean twenty three about

183
00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,960
Speaker 2: million dollars a year for the next six years until

184
00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,200
Speaker 2: Hobby Bias is thirty four years old. For someone who

185
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,960
Speaker 2: already struggles a lot with plate discipline and reaching for

186
00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:27,600
Speaker 2: the ball. It's not like the Mets were gonna be

187
00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:29,680
Speaker 2: out of Hobby. He signed the Stroman contract, you know

188
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,840
Speaker 2: what I mean. And I figured these two guys basically

189
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,480
Speaker 2: because their average no value was similar, kind of just

190
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,760
Speaker 2: like swapped in what I thought they were gonna get

191
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,720
Speaker 2: in what I think their real value is closer to like,

192
00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:41,480
Speaker 2: if Hobby could have been the three for seventy five,

193
00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 2: I think the Mets might have jumped.

194
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:43,480
Speaker 3: And I thought Stroma was.

195
00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:44,760
Speaker 2: Gonna be a guy who walked out five for one

196
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:45,240
Speaker 2: twenty five.

197
00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,800
Speaker 3: But I don't know, tough to predict these things.

198
00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:49,560
Speaker 2: It only really takes one team to blow that the

199
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:51,760
Speaker 2: water to lose a guy like Hobby Bias, and that

200
00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:52,880
Speaker 2: is eventually what happened.

201
00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, we will miss these guys. They

202
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,840
Speaker 1: were pretty you know, big pieces and Hobby less because

203
00:07:57,880 --> 00:07:59,320
Speaker 1: of how much time he was with the Mets, but

204
00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,000
Speaker 1: he did have an impact in the second half of

205
00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:02,880
Speaker 1: that team. He was really really good with the Mets.

206
00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 1: So we are going to miss that bat, We're gonna

207
00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,680
Speaker 1: miss those arms. But we have made some really good

208
00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,560
Speaker 1: acquisitions and we've got a new team to be thinking

209
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,960
Speaker 1: about moving forward here. And part of that entire conundrum

210
00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,080
Speaker 1: with this team is that we don't have a manager now.

211
00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,040
Speaker 1: We don't know who's going to be leading these guys,

212
00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 1: and the names are being thrown out there. I mean,

213
00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,200
Speaker 1: it goes from book show Walter to Bruce Bochie to

214
00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,840
Speaker 1: Curtis Granderson and David Wright. It's all over the place.

215
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:28,880
Speaker 2: That Churis Granderson report was insane A friend night, but

216
00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,520
Speaker 2: I want to literally say one more line about Hobby

217
00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,200
Speaker 2: Bias because I think it's just pertinent because a lot

218
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,760
Speaker 2: of Mets fans are at least were at the time

219
00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,720
Speaker 2: of set that the Mets laws Hobby because they traded

220
00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:38,839
Speaker 2: a big prospect to get him. And while let those

221
00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:40,320
Speaker 2: feel bad that you got like a what one hundred

222
00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,120
Speaker 2: and twenty Hobby Bias at bats for like the first

223
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,640
Speaker 2: round pick from the year before, the only thing that

224
00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,920
Speaker 2: would have made that worse would have been compounding the

225
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:49,839
Speaker 2: issue and giving Hobby Bias a six year, hundred and

226
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,040
Speaker 2: fifty million dollars contract. Like it's bad that the Mets

227
00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,200
Speaker 2: guy or not bad. It's not good that the Mets

228
00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,160
Speaker 2: gave up a high draft pick to acquire Hobby byas

229
00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,079
Speaker 2: for not that much time. He didn't really make any

230
00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,200
Speaker 2: kind of difference besides making our draft pick better or worse,

231
00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,240
Speaker 2: which actually fucked us up with qualifying off for stuff.

232
00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,280
Speaker 2: But it would have compounded the problem if they would

233
00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:06,800
Speaker 2: have given him too much money for a guy who

234
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,120
Speaker 2: I think skills will could deteriorate quickly, not that they

235
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,640
Speaker 2: will not that they are bad right now, but there

236
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,319
Speaker 2: could there's there's a world where hobby buy is like

237
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,680
Speaker 2: becomes Eric Cosmer. You kind of have to avoid those

238
00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,520
Speaker 2: type of consequences at all costs. High variance is what

239
00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:19,959
Speaker 2: you like to say, right, Yeah, and a guy who

240
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,400
Speaker 2: just could deteriorate quickly because he doesn't really have skills that

241
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,439
Speaker 2: age particularly well, Yeah.

242
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,200
Speaker 1: He's a guy who's his youth is almost one of

243
00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 1: his best tools.

244
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,480
Speaker 2: It's his vibrance, his exuberances, like his athleticism's edge. Yes,

245
00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,000
Speaker 2: and they're thirty five k rate at thirty two years

246
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,120
Speaker 2: old would be just unmitigated disaster for a guy who

247
00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:37,040
Speaker 2: can't play shorts up anymore with it like a three

248
00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:39,640
Speaker 2: percent walk rate, Yeah, it would see hitting twenty seven

249
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,000
Speaker 2: home runs in the cavernous confines of city Field to

250
00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:42,560
Speaker 2: be really bad.

251
00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,679
Speaker 1: So this is okay, Yeah, this this is okay. We're

252
00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:46,880
Speaker 1: gonna be fine. We do have a nice group of

253
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,439
Speaker 1: guys and a really solid roster that looks better, way

254
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:50,600
Speaker 1: better than last year's.

255
00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,080
Speaker 3: Going into the seat, especially on the offensive side.

256
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:53,280
Speaker 2: I think they add a lot of depth. I think

257
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:53,800
Speaker 2: this is okay.

258
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's okay. And now we got to talk about

259
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,760
Speaker 1: who's gonna be leading us, because if you look at

260
00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,760
Speaker 1: Mets Twitter, there seems to be one clear and obvious

261
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,320
Speaker 1: guy that anybody wants. And it blows the living hell

262
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,080
Speaker 1: out of my mind here that Buck Showalter seems to

263
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,960
Speaker 1: be the clear odds on favorite by every single person

264
00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:13,080
Speaker 1: in New York Mets World.

265
00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:13,640
Speaker 3: It's crazy.

266
00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,880
Speaker 2: Every single poll that goes up, Buck Showalter wins the

267
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,400
Speaker 2: like he's been trending a few different times.

268
00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:20,120
Speaker 1: By a landslide.

269
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,640
Speaker 2: It's not seven, it's like him furst the field. It's

270
00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:26,319
Speaker 2: not even a competition. And then you hear like Steve

271
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,440
Speaker 2: Cohen say things like we would like to have someone

272
00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,040
Speaker 2: here with experience. You've heard that word beat, that phrase

273
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,440
Speaker 2: beat th rown around a lot. Somehow the old people

274
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,760
Speaker 2: have affected some people from our generation to thinking that

275
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,120
Speaker 2: you need a proven commodity, a winner like Buck Showalter,

276
00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:40,880
Speaker 2: which is crazy. But we should talk about the rest

277
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,959
Speaker 2: of the short list. I think there are some pretty interesting.

278
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:43,319
Speaker 3: Names on here.

279
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,120
Speaker 2: The other guys are Joe Aspada, the Astros bench clothes coach,

280
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:51,280
Speaker 2: Don Kelly the Pirates bench coach, and Matt Quatiraz raise

281
00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:51,800
Speaker 2: bench coach.

282
00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,800
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, I like I like hearing anything with the Rays,

283
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:55,520
Speaker 1: let me tell you.

284
00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,959
Speaker 2: But again you the Rays, you have to think of

285
00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,440
Speaker 2: bench coach on the Rays does probably not significantly less,

286
00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:03,880
Speaker 2: but definitely like probably a portion lest and some other

287
00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,680
Speaker 2: bench coaches because they're all it's all numbers anyway. And

288
00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:08,360
Speaker 2: like I didn't, I didn't even know this guy existed,

289
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,439
Speaker 2: Like I at least heard of Espada before Don Kelly.

290
00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,240
Speaker 2: Just he could be anybody if Don Kelly, like if

291
00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:14,840
Speaker 2: you walk by me right now, wouldn't even have close

292
00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:15,360
Speaker 2: to a clue.

293
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,079
Speaker 1: Don Kelly had that little spell with the Tigers I

294
00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:20,040
Speaker 1: think in like the late twenty early twenty tens.

295
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know that at all, because really I

296
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,280
Speaker 2: just from this list. I focused specifically this episode about

297
00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,000
Speaker 2: Espada and show Walter because I think those two seem

298
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,760
Speaker 2: to be emerging as the two front runners, along with

299
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:32,959
Speaker 2: Brad Ostmas, who's not formally linked yet but I just

300
00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:34,360
Speaker 2: can't imagine him being far away.

301
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 1: And Bruce Bochi got added to that list apparently tonight.

302
00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,040
Speaker 1: Guys that the Mets are seriously considering, and that is

303
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,600
Speaker 1: kind of an interesting name for me. If yeah, we'll

304
00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,400
Speaker 1: talk about it, we'll get there. We will get there. Well,

305
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,680
Speaker 1: let's talk about Buck show Walter and Joe Spoti first, because,

306
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,560
Speaker 1: like you said, and I agree with you, these are

307
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,240
Speaker 1: probably the guys that's between right now.

308
00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:53,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like these are at least the two

309
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:55,480
Speaker 2: front runners in the pack. Spot is a guy I

310
00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,560
Speaker 2: like a lot. I think there's a lot of good

311
00:11:57,559 --> 00:11:59,400
Speaker 2: things you could say about joe'spata as to how he

312
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,360
Speaker 2: could be a very effective manager of this team. Just

313
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,319
Speaker 2: to give a run through of his credentials, he was

314
00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,320
Speaker 2: a player in the major leagues and different major league

315
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,679
Speaker 2: systems from the late nineties through the early two thousands.

316
00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,560
Speaker 2: He retires a player two thousand and five, immediately jumped

317
00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:13,840
Speaker 2: into coaching with the Miami Marlins at the time floor

318
00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:14,880
Speaker 2: of the Marlins, the team.

319
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,280
Speaker 3: He was last associated with as a player.

320
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,080
Speaker 2: Immediately was the hitting coach for their A ball team

321
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,400
Speaker 2: in two thousand and six, the Greensborough Swarm or Horns

322
00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,760
Speaker 2: or some other stupid minor league city has been tossed

323
00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,960
Speaker 2: around twelve times. He ended up being upgraded to the

324
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,760
Speaker 2: full minor league infield coordinator between two thousand and two

325
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:31,440
Speaker 2: thousand and nine, and from there he was picked up

326
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,240
Speaker 2: by the Marlins to be the third base coach of

327
00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,120
Speaker 2: the major league team in twenty ten. So there's a

328
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,720
Speaker 2: guy who immediately knew we wanted to be a manager.

329
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:40,200
Speaker 2: He never wanted to leave the game of baseball, and

330
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,520
Speaker 2: kind of rose up the ranks of a team pretty

331
00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,200
Speaker 2: quickly that was doing some i'd say some generally positive

332
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,280
Speaker 2: things in terms of player development. This time not great,

333
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,679
Speaker 2: but the Marlins weren't like a shit show at this point.

334
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,240
Speaker 1: We all like to, you know, poke fun at the Marlins,

335
00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,760
Speaker 1: but they have developed players pretty well throughout the history

336
00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,080
Speaker 1: of their organization. I mean, the whole thing is just

337
00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 1: that they got rid of them as soon as they

338
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,440
Speaker 1: were any good. But you can name a list of

339
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,320
Speaker 1: about twenty guys that are legitimately good Major League Baseball

340
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,600
Speaker 1: players that came from that organization. And I'm sure Joe

341
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,079
Speaker 1: Spotta had a little bit of hand in that.

342
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,360
Speaker 2: Or maybe not, because maybe you have to look specifically

343
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,280
Speaker 2: in field, there's a guy who's came specifically from these teams.

344
00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:15,760
Speaker 2: There's no way of telling, but it's just the fact

345
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,760
Speaker 2: that he rose quickly and people around baseball kind of

346
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,360
Speaker 2: started to take notice that this guy was an emerging talent.

347
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,160
Speaker 2: Just also as in the side he coached the team

348
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,640
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico twenty thirteen twenty seventeen.

349
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:27,560
Speaker 1: In the World BA Rico.

350
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that stint right there is the Marles third

351
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,600
Speaker 2: base coach and twenty thirteens with Puerto Rico. The Marles

352
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:34,960
Speaker 2: kind of saw him as a bit of a manager

353
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,280
Speaker 2: in waiting and just wanted to send him back down

354
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,920
Speaker 2: to a A plus ball Jupiter to be their manager

355
00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,720
Speaker 2: for twenty fourteen. He immediately said fuck that and actually

356
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,240
Speaker 2: took a job to win the Yankees' front office that

357
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,720
Speaker 2: season instead, which is a pretty interesting move I think

358
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,040
Speaker 2: for a guy who seemed to be being groomed as

359
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,800
Speaker 2: a manager who instead saw that after front offs experience.

360
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then not only that, he then like finds

361
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,800
Speaker 1: his way back into like a not manager role because

362
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,480
Speaker 1: he still hasn't had that yet, but he's bench coach,

363
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,640
Speaker 1: which the Astros I mean, well, he's found his way

364
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,000
Speaker 1: back into being that manager and waiting again.

365
00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely if he took that front office job with the

366
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:13,080
Speaker 2: Yankees for two years, walked directly with Cashman and uh

367
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,680
Speaker 2: Eppler and then they yeah, I mean there's a reason

368
00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,400
Speaker 2: all these guys are here. It's still a boys club

369
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,720
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, connections are everything. So

370
00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,680
Speaker 2: then from that point, the Yankees actually brought him back

371
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,480
Speaker 2: onto the field for a couple of years to be

372
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,400
Speaker 2: their infield coach and third base coach until twenty seventeen,

373
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,640
Speaker 2: where the Astros hired him away from them to be

374
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,960
Speaker 2: their bench coach. So this is the guy who was

375
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,400
Speaker 2: hand picked by the Yankees and Astros only a few

376
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:36,440
Speaker 2: years apart. And at the time these were probably the

377
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,760
Speaker 2: two most cutting edge organizations all at baseball, which I

378
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,240
Speaker 2: think is pretty important, and.

379
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,360
Speaker 1: The Astros are definitely still one of the most cutting edge,

380
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, organizations in baseball for sure.

381
00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:45,680
Speaker 2: The Yankees are still up there too, but they're not

382
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,600
Speaker 2: as probably advanced as they were during this time, which

383
00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,040
Speaker 2: is ironically some of the worst baseball they've ever played,

384
00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:52,840
Speaker 2: which is kind of funny, but seemed like they were

385
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,360
Speaker 2: ahead of certain things before other teams were, like player development,

386
00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:00,400
Speaker 2: signed stealing, breaking ball, breaking ball development, things like and

387
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 2: then he also, in the last couple of years interviewed

388
00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,440
Speaker 2: for openings with the Rangers and Cubs, didn't get them.

389
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,880
Speaker 2: But there's a lot of strange connections that Joe A.

390
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,240
Speaker 2: Spotta has to this team. I mentioned though WBC stuff

391
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,400
Speaker 2: for Puerto Rico. He coached Edwin Diaz Seth Lugo and

392
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,960
Speaker 2: I'm blanking right now, Francisco Lindor, Francisco Jesus Christ. I

393
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,480
Speaker 2: forgot it was Perto Rican. And also that's interesting because

394
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,400
Speaker 2: Steve Cohen's wife is Puerto Rican. That's something that also

395
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,000
Speaker 2: cannot be forgotten ever. And then he's connected to Eppler

396
00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,600
Speaker 2: from those Yankee days. And shockingly, I think I texted

397
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,160
Speaker 2: you this the other day. You might have forgotten it.

398
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,800
Speaker 2: But he was drafted in the second round in nineteen

399
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,880
Speaker 2: ninety six MLB draft Joe Aspata by the Oakland A's

400
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,280
Speaker 2: who were being run by Sandy Alderson. So there's a

401
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,680
Speaker 2: lot of deep connections that run with Joe Aspoty. Here

402
00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,240
Speaker 2: it seems like it's pushing him towards the front runner

403
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:42,720
Speaker 2: for this job.

404
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:45,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I like the idea of bringing in Joe

405
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,160
Speaker 1: Aspata because of who the other guy is now. I

406
00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,000
Speaker 1: don't necessarily know if Joe A. Spotta would be my

407
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,400
Speaker 1: number one pick in general, but when you're putting up

408
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,320
Speaker 1: against Buck Show Walter, I definitely lead more in the

409
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,160
Speaker 1: Espata camp for manager of the New York Mets. I

410
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,760
Speaker 1: just liked the idea that he seems to be a

411
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,120
Speaker 1: guy that one of the smarter organizations in baseball valued

412
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,520
Speaker 1: and had a part of their managerial staff ra coaching

413
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,000
Speaker 1: staff grabbed him. They said, we want you, and you're

414
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:10,840
Speaker 1: gonna be with us.

415
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 3: Hands picked.

416
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was hand picked. He stayed there for a bit,

417
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,560
Speaker 1: and whether it was between Hinch and you know now

418
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,920
Speaker 1: Dusty Baker, he was able to stick around. So that

419
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,960
Speaker 1: means that this is a guy who's got some information,

420
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:24,200
Speaker 1: People value his opinion. People clearly understand, or I should say,

421
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,000
Speaker 1: people care about what he has to say. I like

422
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 1: the idea of Joe Espada. I know a lot of

423
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,360
Speaker 1: people are gonna get super super turned off by the

424
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 1: idea of a first time manager again, but I can't

425
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,440
Speaker 1: stress this enough. Everybody at some point has to be

426
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:38,240
Speaker 1: a first time manager. And I went to war with

427
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:40,280
Speaker 1: a guy on Twitter the other day about this because

428
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:43,040
Speaker 1: for some reason, first time managers, it's because we had

429
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,960
Speaker 1: Mickey Collaway and Louis Rojas are considered to be almost

430
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:49,680
Speaker 1: like they're just incompetent, that they're morons. But if you

431
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:51,320
Speaker 1: go through the list of managers right now in Major

432
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,080
Speaker 1: League baseball, especially some of the more successful ones. A

433
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,560
Speaker 1: lot of their success came as first time managers. Just

434
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:58,720
Speaker 1: to rattle off some names here, Aj Hinch with the

435
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,640
Speaker 1: Astros won World Series. Was a first time manager. Brian Snicker,

436
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 1: don't care how long he's been in the organization, he

437
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,600
Speaker 1: was a first time manager with this Atlanta Braves team

438
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,600
Speaker 1: won a World Series. Dave Martinez, first time manager, won

439
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,320
Speaker 1: a World Series. I'm forgetting a couple names, Greg Counsel,

440
00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 1: Craig Counsel, Alex Cora, Kevin Cash. I mean, just because

441
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,359
Speaker 1: you're a first time manager doesn't mean you're at a

442
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 1: disability or at a disadvantage. Some of the best managers

443
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,560
Speaker 1: in baseball came for first time managers, even Dave Roberts

444
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,160
Speaker 1: first time manager with the Dodgers. And if you look

445
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,280
Speaker 1: at some of the managers in baseball who have been

446
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:32,200
Speaker 1: considered good at least in their past, they were objectively

447
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,120
Speaker 1: much better when they were closer to being first time managers. Specifically,

448
00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,280
Speaker 1: a guy like Joe Madden, he had his best run

449
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:39,240
Speaker 1: of his entire career when he was a first time manager,

450
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:41,400
Speaker 1: not his second stint or his third stin second state.

451
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,199
Speaker 2: Was still good, I say it was obnestly pretty good.

452
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 2: But yeah, Buck Schaalter is not like a second stint guy.

453
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 2: This is a guy who just a transition now managed

454
00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,119
Speaker 2: most of his games like close to the turn of

455
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:52,240
Speaker 2: the millennium, Like this is now the guy who should

456
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:53,160
Speaker 2: really even be involved.

457
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:55,040
Speaker 1: Well, I like you bringing up Joe Madden, because Joe

458
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,520
Speaker 1: Madden was one of the guys who was a forward

459
00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,040
Speaker 1: thinking guy. He was kind of ahead of the.

460
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,920
Speaker 3: Curve, oh way ahead of the curve.

461
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,199
Speaker 1: It blew by him so fast when he got to

462
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,320
Speaker 1: the Angels. That guy, I don't even know if he

463
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,480
Speaker 1: understands what's going on in the field anymore. He looks

464
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,399
Speaker 1: lost out there. But Joe Madden was. He was forward thinking,

465
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,480
Speaker 1: He was ahead of the curve, and he got blown by.

466
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,400
Speaker 1: This is what scares me about Buck Showalter's. Buck Showalter

467
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,520
Speaker 1: was never ahead of the curve. Buck Showalter was even

468
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,840
Speaker 1: with the curve whatever, you know, he was steady with

469
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 1: what everyone else was doing in Major League baseball. The

470
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,399
Speaker 1: game's changed a ton. I don't know if he's ready.

471
00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,760
Speaker 2: Buck Showalter has almost never managed in a baseball where

472
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 2: the curve existed. There was never a curve when Buck

473
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 2: Showalter has been a part of this game. It was

474
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 2: just a lot of guys like spitting tobacco and figuring

475
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 2: things out. Like that's what baseball was for the first

476
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,920
Speaker 2: one hundred years, one hundred and thirty years of his existence,

477
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:42,800
Speaker 2: and that was a great sport.

478
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:43,720
Speaker 3: Don't get me wrong.

479
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:45,720
Speaker 2: Sometimes I think if we could go back to a

480
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,399
Speaker 2: world where there was no data in baseball at all,

481
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 2: there would be some kind of like natural fun to

482
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,600
Speaker 2: it still, but that's just simply not the reality we

483
00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,680
Speaker 2: live in. There's no world where Buck show Walter really

484
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,560
Speaker 2: improves your team to the point where I think he

485
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,720
Speaker 2: should be considered over people who you know, like data

486
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,640
Speaker 2: and assume data have been parts of organizations that use data.

487
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,080
Speaker 1: I don't mean to interrupt you here, but I was

488
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,080
Speaker 1: going through like old videos on Twitter just trying to

489
00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:07,960
Speaker 1: find takes of Buck show Walter because I want I

490
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:09,639
Speaker 1: want to catch this guy in the act. There's not

491
00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 1: that many great videos of him out there, just because

492
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 1: I don't think really people care too much about what

493
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,400
Speaker 1: he has to say. But I did find one where

494
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,040
Speaker 1: he was talking about Tony LaRussa coming in and taking

495
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,320
Speaker 1: over for the White Sox, and he had a lot

496
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 1: of high praise, but it also felt like a little

497
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:22,639
Speaker 1: bit of a pitch for himself as to why he

498
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,880
Speaker 1: would be a good manager in Major League Baseball nowadays.

499
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,080
Speaker 1: Buck show Walter, you know, he is not a guy

500
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 1: that probably uses a computer too often. And I know

501
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 1: that's a little that's a little like you know, Jokish,

502
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,920
Speaker 1: a little meme here and there. But Buck show Walter

503
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 1: still calls managing. He says, it's an art and it's

504
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 1: not a science. And right now, the teams that are

505
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,360
Speaker 1: doing it the best are treating it like a science.

506
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,479
Speaker 1: And whether you want to believe that or not, it

507
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:47,840
Speaker 1: doesn't matter because it's.

508
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 2: Fact, definitely. And if you really want to dissect the

509
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,240
Speaker 2: most of the talented managers that we listed, they all

510
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,280
Speaker 2: come from organizations who do treat the game of baseball

511
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,000
Speaker 2: like a science because that's what it's been reduced to.

512
00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 2: For better or worse, that's the game we play, and

513
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,439
Speaker 2: those the team that win, that's how they approached this sport.

514
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,280
Speaker 1: Like let me give you an example, like a guy

515
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,360
Speaker 1: like Max Munsey. Let's just go ahead and talk about

516
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,440
Speaker 1: him real quick. A guy like Max Munsey for the Dodgers.

517
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,399
Speaker 1: You don't watch he wasn't you know, discovered by the

518
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 1: Dodgers because of a feel that was discovered because of

519
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,920
Speaker 1: data and information and statistics that they had on this guy.

520
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,879
Speaker 1: But the fact is like that the numbers really don't lie.

521
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,880
Speaker 1: And while there is some feel necessary, I don't even

522
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 1: know if Buck Showalter has good.

523
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:26,159
Speaker 3: Feel definitely not.

524
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:27,919
Speaker 2: But like the point I was trying to get to

525
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 2: before and I completely lost the thoughts in my brain

526
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,640
Speaker 2: is that a guy like Buck Showalter could probably still

527
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,160
Speaker 2: have value with the right organization in baseball, like an

528
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,119
Speaker 2: organization that is completely one hundred thousand percent all the

529
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 2: way a headfirst into day, the years into the process,

530
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 2: successful foundation, adequate staff around. Like that's okay, Like I

531
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 2: kind of said this a month ago, and you jumped

532
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 2: down my throat that if you were a trillion percent

533
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,399
Speaker 2: data team, a guy like Buck or Clint Hurlole and

534
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 2: now like Dusty Baker with the astros could add something

535
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 2: that that all the numbers in the world can't add.

536
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,400
Speaker 2: And like, while you do have to tell that guy

537
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 2: like you have to cut your balls off at the door,

538
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:02,040
Speaker 2: like you can't push back, like you could be the

539
00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 2: guy's guy. You can keep everybody loose you can have

540
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:05,439
Speaker 2: your feel but at the end of the day, like

541
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,760
Speaker 2: we are making ninety nine point nine percent of these decisions,

542
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:08,920
Speaker 2: and if you're okay with that, you want to be

543
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 2: the dug guy, you want to be the master of culture.

544
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:11,359
Speaker 3: That's okay.

545
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,159
Speaker 2: I just don't see the Mets organizational infrastructure able to

546
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 2: do that right now, or Buck Showalter being a guy

547
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 2: who would even listen to that claim, because he's been

548
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 2: like a bit of a maverick his entire career.

549
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a bit of a he's a bit of

550
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,919
Speaker 1: a character himself, and honestly, at the manager position right

551
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 1: now with the Mets, I don't really want a character either.

552
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 1: I don't want a guy who's trying to steal headlines.

553
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: It feels like Buck Showalter's gonna be stealing some headlines

554
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 1: every once in a while, which is not something that

555
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 1: we really want to hear. And that shocks me so

556
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 1: much even more that these you know, a lot of

557
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 1: Met fans out there are proclaiming from the top of

558
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 1: their lungs that they want Bucks show Walter. I mean,

559
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 1: you go through the history of him as a manager

560
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: and it is just mediocrity.

561
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 3: It really is really bad.

562
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,159
Speaker 2: Overall, Like you can dissect, most of the things that

563
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 2: Buck Shoalder has ever done in the baseball field have

564
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 2: been like, this guy's not really that good of a manager.

565
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 3: This field isn't that great.

566
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 2: The Zach Britton decision in twenty fourteen goes Down or

567
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,960
Speaker 2: fifteen fifteen goes Down is probably one of the worst

568
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 2: pitching decisions that's ever been made in a baseball game.

569
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 3: Ever.

570
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, I'm sure you know from some obscure game,

571
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: maybe there's one worst.

572
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 2: Let's describe situation for everyone, just in case they forgot

573
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 2: or weren't aware of it at the time.

574
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 1: So twenty fifteen wild Card game, they're playing the Blue

575
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 1: Jays and it's an extra innings too, right.

576
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 2: He's a ninth of the tenth eleven something like that

577
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,880
Speaker 2: was very it was with the game was very much

578
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:21,399
Speaker 2: in the balance.

579
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 1: The game was on the line, and the Orioles had

580
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: a chance to either keep it closer win the game,

581
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: and instead of going to Zach Britton, who had one

582
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 1: of the best reliever years of all time untouchable, I mean.

583
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:34,160
Speaker 2: Mentioned him in the Loop episode to two episodes ago.

584
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 1: He was literally disgusting on another planet.

585
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,360
Speaker 3: He was so Oha though era in the season so.

586
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: Insanely good, and instead of going to Zach Britain, who

587
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 1: again everyone around the league would have said, is one

588
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: hundred percent the best closer in the game, He's the

589
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 1: best pitcher in that rotation he needs to be in,

590
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,040
Speaker 1: he goes Ubaldo Jimenez. That's the guy I'm gonna call to.

591
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 1: We're gonna leave in Ubaldo Jimenez and the Eros get

592
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: knocked out of the playoffs. I mean, it's single handedly

593
00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: one of the worst decisions. And of course a manager

594
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: is not made by just one decision, but the idea

595
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,679
Speaker 1: is that the numbers there would have told you that

596
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,760
Speaker 1: Zach Briton comes in the game, and if Zach Briton

597
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: blows it, you lost because you made the right decision.

598
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 1: But no, Buck Showalter chose to lose this game because

599
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: he went with feel instead and his field was so

600
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 1: fucking bad.

601
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: You don't even need one number involved to be completely

602
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: aware that you should have a better picture in the

603
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 2: game when at any moment your season could literally end,

604
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 2: Like why would you want a bad picture to have

605
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 2: the ball in his hand?

606
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 3: Season?

607
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 2: As there's no numbers involved here, just you don't have

608
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: a next inning that's guaranteed, so you have to treat

609
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 2: every single inning like it's the last one. That is

610
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 2: something that I would want an old school manager to

611
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 2: really have in the forefront of his brain if I

612
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 2: was to bring him in.

613
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 3: That shows bad field.

614
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 2: That's not really a guy who fully understands to use

615
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 2: a word from how we rose the gravitas.

616
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: Of a moment, you know, yeah, like and you bald him.

617
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: And it is not even like he was dominant that

618
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,200
Speaker 1: year either. He was very mediocre. So, like, the decision

619
00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: is baffling on all fronts, and this is one of

620
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: the lasting memories we have a Buck Showalter in Yet

621
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: people are calling for this guy to be the definitive

622
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: manager of this team. After just being so critical of

623
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:09,080
Speaker 1: Luis Ross and Mickey Callaway and previous managers for the

624
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: decisions they make. We then want to go to a

625
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: guy who couldn't have been given an easier decision and

626
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: he still fucked it up.

627
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 2: And we could take these like single pitching decisions aside,

628
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: because everybody makes bad pitching decisions, Like everyone makes awful

629
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,920
Speaker 2: pitching decisions, every single manager across baseball, and what anyone

630
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 2: Twitter will lead you to belief even Alex cor fucks

631
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: up a pitching decision sometimes, even though he has such

632
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,920
Speaker 2: great feel past that, Buck Showalter is still just entirely mediocre.

633
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,439
Speaker 2: The guys managed three thousand games in Major League Baseball,

634
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 2: spanning from nineteen ninety two, so before most of you

635
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 2: guys listening, including Mark and I, were born up until

636
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen with the Orioles, and those last two seasons

637
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 2: with the Orioles were bad, and then one of the

638
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 2: worst seasons baseball history is a forty seven win team.

639
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 2: But of course that Orioles see by the end of

640
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: his tenure there was pis poor, pitiful team almost tank.

641
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 2: Buck show Walter's career five hundred the win percentage. Somehow

642
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,160
Speaker 2: this just actually shocked me. It made me stutter that sentence.

643
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: Buck Showalter is so old that he has a tie

644
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,359
Speaker 2: his record. Buck Showalter has tied the game nineteen ninety

645
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 2: five with the New York Yankees. Somehow there was a tie.

646
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 2: I don't I can't even fathom that. How'd that happen?

647
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: I have no clue how, really don't even have the

648
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: slightest how.

649
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 3: Could he have tied? Was that?

650
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: Because that was like a post strike year and it

651
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: was short, and they had a weird rule like seven

652
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 2: in double heathers or something.

653
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: Maybe those Fuck no, we should do a.

654
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 3: Hull up some one time.

655
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 2: Buck Shoalter's tie.

656
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: If he becomes the manager, we will.

657
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,199
Speaker 2: But so again, this guy's been just mediocre for three

658
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 2: thousand games, and some people, like my dad this morning

659
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 2: at brunch was like he never really had great teams. Well,

660
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people should realize that three

661
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,439
Speaker 2: times after Buck Shoalter left organizations, the team began a

662
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 2: run of success that was actually pretty significant. Twice he

663
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: left the team. The next year the team won the

664
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: World Series back to back jobs, the Yankees he left

665
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 2: in ninety five, and the Dimbacks he left in two

666
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 2: thousand and one. That is shocking shit, and he was

667
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: very good in the last couple of years with those teams.

668
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 2: The Yankees in nineteen ninety three win eighty eight games.

669
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: Nineteen ninety four season that ended in August, they went

670
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: seventeen to forty three, seen one of the best teams

671
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: in baseball, andineteen ninety five, his last year, another strike

672
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 2: short season, he won seventy nine to sixty five. The

673
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: Yankees had the wherewithal to get him out of the building,

674
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: bringing Joe Torrey sus stay in a dynasty with the Diamondbacks.

675
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 2: Took over the job in nineteen ninety eight. He didn't

676
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 2: have a very good season, did have a very good team,

677
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: won one hundred games in nineteen ninety nine. I don't

678
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: think anybody in God's Green Earth would think that the

679
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 2: Diamonbacks won one hundred games in the year nineteen ninety nine,

680
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,199
Speaker 2: and then there were eighty five and seventy seven the

681
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 2: next year, and then he was gone. And then the

682
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 2: next year they won the World Series, and he actually

683
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 2: was a manager of the Rangers.

684
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 3: I didn't even know this.

685
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 2: I was just about to bring that one up when

686
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 2: they traded a Rod. He left him in two thousand

687
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: and six after two straight years of hanging out of

688
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: the round five hundred. But two thousand and nine the

689
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: team was a perennial powerhouse with first time manager Ron Washington.

690
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: Yes, which back to back World Series as well.

691
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 2: Yes, so this guy seems to be not the best

692
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: manager either, as well as being old and curmudgety.

693
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 1: And listen, I'll play a little Devil's advocate here for

694
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: Buck show Walter, because I know we're going a little

695
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 1: hard on him, but as you can probably tell, we

696
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: don't want him as the man. Now, this is the

697
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,120
Speaker 1: reason we're trying to convince people. It doesn't really matter

698
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 1: at the end of the day what we think, because

699
00:26:58,280 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: the Mets will make their decision and they're not list

700
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: to us and they don't give a shit what we

701
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: have to say. But like to play devil's advocate. A

702
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: guy that is being mentioned, Bruce Bochi, who I would

703
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 1: prefer over buckshow Walter was probably of a similar type

704
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: of manager. Is also below five hundred for his career.

705
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: But here's the big difference. He won three World Series. Yeah.

706
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 2: The other thing with Bruce Bochi though, that was kind

707
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 2: of hinted that when he was like basically removed as

708
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: a San Francisco Giants manager a few years ago, the

709
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: mutual agreeing to part ways, which is the gentleman's firing.

710
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:28,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're either fired or you can step out.

711
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Because I mean, Bruce Bochi is a legend. He's

712
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: one of the most successful managers history of baseball. But

713
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 2: there were rumblings that he was pushing back against the

714
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: organizational philosophy and didn't necessarily believe in what they were doing.

715
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 2: And this is after the Giants were on the cutting

716
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: edge when they were winning those World Series. They were

717
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 2: a very early employer of analytics. But I guess only

718
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:45,959
Speaker 2: to a certain degree. And now I think we can

719
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,720
Speaker 2: all tell that the Giants' organizational philosophy is nothing short

720
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 2: of genius, and that if you're pushing back against it,

721
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you're ready for the modern game

722
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: of baseball. But maybe that Todd Bruce a lesson. He

723
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 2: realizes now that he could have made a gigantic mistake

724
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 2: leave that team before their second dynasty.

725
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I definitely think you know, that's also worth

726
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,239
Speaker 1: noting too that the pushback there because another guy that

727
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: Mets Twitter loves to here, although he's not connected, thank god,

728
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: Mike Shilt also fired because of pushing back against these

729
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: analytics things like, there's a reason, guys that we see

730
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: organizations constantly trying to get smarter people in there, not

731
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: going back to the old school. Remember when Tony Laruss

732
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 1: got hired, everyone was like, what in the world is

733
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 1: going on here? Jerry Reinsdorf is just an old, crazy

734
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: old man and he wants to remember the glory days.

735
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: But we all know that that's not probably not gonna

736
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: end up being the guy who leads them to the

737
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 1: Promised Land, just based on how things looked last year.

738
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: It's a great team, but Tony Larus really didn't make

739
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: them much better. And I feel like that's gonna be

740
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: the same thing that happens if Buck Showalter comes here.

741
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: Is I think the Mets will probably be just fine.

742
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: I don't think he makes them a team that's like,

743
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: all of a sudden terrible, But I don't want to

744
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: give him credit for when the Mets play well, because

745
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: I do think the team is good and has nothing

746
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: to do with him.

747
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:55,959
Speaker 2: I think that's also kind of the crux of what

748
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 2: everyone out there should be taking away from this discussion

749
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: in general, is that the manager in a baseball team

750
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 2: is really not the be all and end all or

751
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 2: the make or break at point of a team like

752
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: it probably once was in like the seventies, eighties and

753
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 2: points in the nineties. Like this is just gonna be

754
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: a guy who's like steering the boat, driving a nice boat,

755
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: and he's at the back of the ruther making sure

756
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 2: everything's going acred the plan. Like maybe he's an as

757
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 2: of chaos and just rips it all the way in

758
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: one way, you just spinning circles. Maybe he's not paying

759
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: attention steers you the wrong way. But generally there's not

760
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 2: the highest bar in modern baseball to manage successfully.

761
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: No, And I mean we've seen incompetent managers, you know,

762
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: win world series. We've seen guys have done less of

763
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: jobs that of one World series. So just because Buck

764
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: Showalter could possibly be here doesn't mean that the Mets

765
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: will be bad, and it doesn't mean that they would

766
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 1: be good. It still does come down to the players

767
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: on the field. They need to play to their best ability,

768
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: and they need to have good seasons, and there has

769
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: to be a lot of things that go right to

770
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: win a World Series. But it just feels like bringing

771
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: in Buck show Walter kind of is against the whole

772
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: philosophy that the Mets seem to be going for, which

773
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: is trying to be one of the smarter organizations, or

774
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: at least build to be one of the smarter organizations.

775
00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: And that feels like a step backwards.

776
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 2: That is just unless they decide to completely newther him.

777
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 2: If they knew the him, it could be it could

778
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 2: be okay, But.

779
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: I just don't and can Buck show Walter be neutered.

780
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:09,720
Speaker 3: I don't know. He's a wild man.

781
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: He's a big personality. I mean during the Astros White

782
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,480
Speaker 1: Sox playoff games, he was pissed off about the shift.

783
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: He was saying that the shift was costing team's hits

784
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: or costing teams runs, and it was like, no, if

785
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: if the White Sox actually actually shifted more, these games

786
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: would be a lot closer because they just choose to

787
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: play straight up. So like, if he's on board with everything, whatever,

788
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: how bad can it really be?

789
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 3: Right?

790
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: If he's on board with everything, not.

791
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 3: That bad, really not that bad.

792
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: But if he decides to be a cavalier and a

793
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 2: maverick to a certain extent that ends up being dangerous

794
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: to what the front office is trying to do, then

795
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 2: it could be an issue.

796
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: It definitely could be an issue, and that's what we

797
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 1: were trying to avoid, and that's why there is so

798
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: much pushback at least for me and James, as for

799
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: Buck show Walter for the manager. Now, of course, we

800
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: talked about Twitter a lot. Let's bring up a certain

801
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: tweet by Howie Rose because I think this really does

802
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: sum up how a lot of Mets fans on Twitter.

803
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 3: Feel, especially in that age range.

804
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you look at the replies on Twitter,

805
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: there's quite the brainwashing going on on Twitter right now

806
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: about Buck Showalter. But let's go ahead and read it

807
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 1: out and we'll give our thoughts and opinions on this,

808
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 1: all right.

809
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 2: So, how he Rose said, in this age of analytics,

810
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: it would be great if a manager had the gravitas.

811
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 2: So I alluded to this before using the word gravitas

812
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: because that's our SAT word of the week for everyone

813
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 2: at home.

814
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:22,479
Speaker 3: That'd be a crazy word to break out.

815
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,960
Speaker 2: Anyway, it would be great if my manager had the

816
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: gravitas to say, thanks for the data. Now, run along

817
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: point dexter and I'll make out the lineup. But that's

818
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 2: not reality to suggest that Buck could not be collaborative

819
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 2: and insulting to him and other veteran managers. That sentence

820
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: is legendary. Run along, point dexter, I'll make out the lineup.

821
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 2: I bet someone said that to how He Rose when

822
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 2: he was like eleven years old.

823
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: Oh, without a doubt, how he Rose would be the

824
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: dork in this scenarios to me.

825
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: And again other one is to be mistaken as bemoaning

826
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: how he Rose.

827
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 3: I love how He Rose.

828
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine my life without how He Rose

829
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 2: in it. I purposely listened to games on the radio

830
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 2: because I love how He Rose so goddamn much.

831
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: He's He's just an elder statesman. That's what it is.

832
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: With age comes these you know, crotchety takes which are

833
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: gonna happen.

834
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 2: But the take that how we here had here, which

835
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: is I'd say relatively fair, is that it is probably

836
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 2: not the coolest thing to suggest that Buck show Walter

837
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: could not collaborate with the data people, and that.

838
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 3: Is insulting to him.

839
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: But I just I would call it more of an

840
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 2: inference than a suggestion, Like I just think, based on

841
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: what we know about Buck show Walter, he probably would

842
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 2: be less likely to collaborate in a in an effective

843
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: and positive and open minded way than a guy like

844
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 2: Joe Spoto, who has made an emphasis in his career

845
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 2: to be around data and use it to the best

846
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: of his capabilities.

847
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: Which it seems like he would be. And that's why

848
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: I'm more willing to go with him, because he's been

849
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:45,920
Speaker 1: a part of organizations that have been doing this, and

850
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: he's been a part of it, and he sees how

851
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: it works. So therefore he understands how things are done

852
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: where Buck show Walter. The last time he managed was

853
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: with the Orioles, and that was many, many moons ago.

854
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: It wasn't even that long ago. I can't believe his

855
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: last year was actually twenty eighteen. That's shockingly reason.

856
00:32:58,560 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: Whoa hold on twenty eighteen.

857
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 2: Yes, that was the last time I managed with the Orioles.

858
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it feels like he's been at baseball

859
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 1: for ten years. Baseball's changed a lot in that time.

860
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 3: A ton.

861
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 2: He was imaginer of the team of twenty eighteen that

862
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: won forty seven games.

863
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: And I think it is fair to say that players

864
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 1: have had some good things to say about Buck. I mean,

865
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: Adam Jones came out and.

866
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: I'm sure Buck Sho Walter is a hell of a

867
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: baseball guy, a hell of a baseball mind. I'm sure

868
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,239
Speaker 2: there are a lot of things he can add. I

869
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:22,720
Speaker 2: just think there's other people could add more.

870
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: Yes, And I just I'm afraid of the worst case scenario,

871
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: which would be that Buck show Walter comes in bamboozled

872
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 1: us and does whatever he wants, and that's just not.

873
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 3: Gonna work, definitely.

874
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: And this is also coming from a place where I

875
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 2: don't think either of us are as afraid of this

876
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: concept of a first time manager coming in and kind

877
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 2: of getting a call with his pants down. I just

878
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,959
Speaker 2: don't see that as something that could happen. I think

879
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: that did happen to Mickey Callaway, but that was more

880
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 2: of the way he handled the media. I think Rojas

881
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: wasn't great, but I don't think he was the demise

882
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: of his team. And I think that some people just

883
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 2: kind of see a lot of similarities between a Spada

884
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 2: and Rojas and that scares them away, which is true

885
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 2: to a.

886
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 3: Degree, but I also don't think it really is at all.

887
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 2: No.

888
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it's comparing apples to oranges, like

889
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: they're both fruit. They're both first time managers, but they're

890
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 1: very different.

891
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, it's funny.

892
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: I also do think that in modern baseball, especially when

893
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 2: you look at the Mets, who they have two like

894
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 2: pretty prize jewels who you hope to be on this

895
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: team within the next twenty four months, who are, as

896
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 2: we know, much more comfortable speaking Spanish than English. I

897
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: think it helps to have multiple people inside of a

898
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 2: dugout that are fully and wholly fluently bilingual. Yeah, you

899
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 2: can't really understand how important that is. We couldn't talk

900
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 2: to Francisco Olverrez in English. I don't, I don't. I

901
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 2: don't think that buckshow Walter could either.

902
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: Yeah no, I'm gonna again. Maybe it's unfair of us

903
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: to assume this, but I I get.

904
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 2: Well like Buck Show Walter is fluent in Spanish. Someone

905
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: tweeted me, I will publicly correct my mistake and address

906
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:47,399
Speaker 2: address the gaff I've made.

907
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 3: But I just I'm just assuming he isn't.

908
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,720
Speaker 1: It doesn't Yeah no, I'm assuming the same thing. And listen,

909
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: we've been talking about the manager for like twenty minutes. Now.

910
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: What it comes down to is we just want the

911
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: best guy who's gonna give the Mets the best chance

912
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 1: to win. If that is Buck Show, Walter or any

913
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: proves that he can do it again, I'll be happy

914
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,040
Speaker 1: to be wrong, just like we weren't with Billion.

915
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 2: Yet thrilled if this is the way that we start

916
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 2: danking people from now on, like, that'd be okay too.

917
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 2: I just want to make sure someone who is ready

918
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 2: for the challenge and is gonna listen to everything that

919
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 2: people tell him.

920
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 1: Yep, and whoever it is, Uh, get the right guy

921
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 1: that's all I'm asking for. Get the right guy.

922
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: And take your time, because there's absolutely no fucking rush

923
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 2: at all right now, because everyone in the baseball world knows,

924
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,000
Speaker 2: and if you don't, we're about to tell you we

925
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 2: locked out last week and things are dead.

926
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,439
Speaker 1: No baseball activities. Players can't talk to coaches, they can't

927
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: talk to doctors, they can't talk to staff, they can't

928
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 1: do anything. Jameson ti own, I know he's not a met,

929
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: but Yankee tweeted about He's like, I guess I'll just

930
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 1: take off my boot now. I don't know what to do.

931
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 3: Like these are my doctors.

932
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,120
Speaker 1: He's like, I gotta go find a personal doctor.

933
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 3: Now.

934
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: That's crazy.

935
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 2: So like that would be such a pain in the

936
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 2: ass if these doctors take care of you every single

937
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 2: day for years and then you're like, can I have

938
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 2: my records and they're like, no, you don't exist.

939
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 3: It's gone. That's so brutal.

940
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 2: But we want to break this down a little bit

941
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,480
Speaker 2: because some people ask for it, and it's like pretty

942
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 2: convolute and complicated, and we're not gonna break it down

943
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 2: that much. One because this is all we're gonna have

944
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,480
Speaker 2: for a few months and two neither of us are

945
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 2: attorneys or like accomplished business professionals, so it's hard to

946
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 2: really fully understand what's happening besides what we're taking in,

947
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 2: specifically from journalists and what we can pull from quotes

948
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,319
Speaker 2: from guys like Tony Clark and Rob Manford. But we're

949
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 2: gonna try, and I think we're gonna do a kind

950
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: of a good job.

951
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,799
Speaker 1: Yeah. Basically, the way that this is working is that

952
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: the Collective Bargain Agreement expired on December second, right at midnight.

953
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: And for those who don't know, the Collective Bargaining Agreement

954
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 1: is essentially the set of rules that Major League Baseball

955
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 1: players and the owners agree to governs baseball.

956
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 2: It's like the laws for a society that those.

957
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 3: Are the laws for baseball.

958
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: Yes, and a big, big, big, big part of it

959
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: is revenue sharing. Because while the players, you know, do

960
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 1: get paid quite a bit of money themselves, the big

961
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 1: catching point or the big breaking point right now is

962
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: the revenue sharing. And that's why we're having this big

963
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: lockout on this big the stalemate is because owners, of

964
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: course want to get more money and spend less and

965
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: players want to get as much money as possible. This

966
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: is where we're having the big problem. This we're having

967
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: the big debate. There's minute things like the dh and

968
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: how many playoff teams and all this other stuff, but

969
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 1: really at the end of the day, there's a lot

970
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: of money on the table and both sides want as

971
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:18,440
Speaker 1: much as possible.

972
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 2: The other big deal that's being talked about a lot

973
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 2: that's kind of at the forefront of this negotiation is

974
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 2: service time. The fact that it takes players six years

975
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 2: to get to free agency and takes most players three

976
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 2: years to get to arbitration unless they're super too eligible.

977
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 2: And right now the players, like their firm demands, are

978
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 2: knocking a year off service tyber free agency, making it

979
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 2: five instead of six, knocking off a year until you

980
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,359
Speaker 2: get to arbitration, so every single player is a two

981
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 2: year arbitration guys. They just select ones of them depending

982
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 2: on service time, which is a conflut of equation. They

983
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: literally almost can't find anywhere, like it's just not really

984
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: even public. And then they want to bring up the

985
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 2: minimum salary because that's something that's been stagnant somehow for

986
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 2: ten years in terms of like in the face of

987
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,400
Speaker 2: like hyperinflation, and then so much more money being invested

988
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 2: into this game based on TVs contracts, everything.

989
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: Yes, and the owner's stance in Rob Manford is that

990
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: the way that the players are coming to the table,

991
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 1: baseball will no longer basically can't cease to It can

992
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 1: no longer cease to exist.

993
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 3: No, that's a double meganific. It will cease to exist.

994
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: It will cease to exist. There we go. This is

995
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: why we got you, Javid. You're the words guy where

996
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: even though I make videos every day, but the way

997
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: that the players are doing it, baseball can't exist. It

998
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: won't work. It's not possible that teams that are at

999
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 1: the bottom in terms of money and payroll and salary

1000
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: will not be able to compete with the teams like

1001
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 1: the Mets, which is a crazy sentence, like the Dodgers,

1002
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: like the Red Sox, like the Three Yankees. I can't

1003
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: believe I forgot that. But to me, like I don't

1004
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: know outside looking in again, I don't know everybody's financials.

1005
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 3: But that's bullshit. That is, it's definitely partially bullshit.

1006
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 2: I think the owners are doing a lot of posturing

1007
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 2: right now because the last talk that they had was

1008
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 2: last Tuesday, the day the afternoon before the last day

1009
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 2: before the deal was to expire, and it was a

1010
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 2: big meeting. It was a whole big like rigamarole where

1011
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: they all got take seven minutes they all got together

1012
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 2: I think was fifteen technically actually, but the owners, the

1013
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 2: shisty ass motherfuckers, came to the deal and offered the

1014
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 2: players a pre deal, so like a deal before the deal,

1015
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 2: a fake deal, a half of a deal.

1016
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 1: Really.

1017
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 2: They wouldn't even reveal the entire deal that they offered,

1018
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 2: and all conveniently, this happened during the flurry of moves

1019
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 2: that were going on, so it really went under the rug.

1020
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 2: I'm sure most baseball fans were even completely unaware of

1021
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 2: it going on, because this was like moments. This is

1022
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 2: like right around like I think was day after mextchers

1023
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 2: are signed, but Lyley Castle going on last Tuesday player movement.

1024
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 2: The owners wouldn't reveal the entire offer, but they would

1025
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,800
Speaker 2: guarantee no stoppage of the collective, like no work stoppage

1026
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: at all, an immediate like set to the table, basically

1027
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 2: signing a pre deal if the players agreed to drop.

1028
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 2: This is the list. The desire to raise the luxury

1029
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: tax threshold. They're wanting to knock a year each off

1030
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 2: a free agency and arbitration, and their claim to want

1031
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 2: to not their claim, and their request and their request

1032
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 2: to reduce revenue sharing by a clean hundred million on

1033
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 2: like off the top. So with all those things off

1034
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 2: the table, the players don't really have much at all

1035
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 2: talk about besides raising the minimum like the salary, like

1036
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 2: the minimum play salary. So they told the owners to

1037
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 2: fuck off, and actually Tony Clark said they don't even

1038
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 2: consider what that was as an actual proposal, and that

1039
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 2: seemed to be the point where it was very official

1040
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:11,919
Speaker 2: that the bad blood was going to begin.

1041
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 1: And the thing that's so frustrating too is that Rob

1042
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: Manford then in his letter to the fans, try to

1043
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 1: paint it like the players are unreasonable and will not

1044
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: negotiate and fair, and you know collectively when it's such nonsense,

1045
00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: when they're like, okay, so here's the deal, and if

1046
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 1: you don't take it, despite not having anything.

1047
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: That you want in there and not seeing the entire deal,

1048
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,239
Speaker 2: they still wouldn't have seen what day would have brought

1049
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 2: the table as news for revenue sharing, what day would

1050
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: have brought the table as a new salary minimum. So

1051
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 2: it was really just a complete I don't even know

1052
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 2: what to call it.

1053
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 1: It was just it was.

1054
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 3: It was disrespectful, was what it was.

1055
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: It seems like they did it so that when the

1056
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: players in nevitably did say no to it, they'd be like, well,

1057
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: we gave them an offer, and they said.

1058
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 2: We have this corniaque leather prepared, so we're gonna tell

1059
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 2: all the fans that you guys are being difficult, and

1060
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 2: Manfred clapp back with that leather, which, again I just

1061
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 2: I don't even think it was. It's worth the time

1062
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 2: of day if you haven't read. It's disrespect it's painful,

1063
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 2: it's mean. He had a couple of quick quo like

1064
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 2: publicly that have gone around since, and one really specifically

1065
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 2: stuck out to me, and he said that things like

1066
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 2: a shortened reserve period prior to the free agency, a

1067
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: one hundred million dollar reduction revenue sharing and salary arbitration

1068
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 2: for the whole two year class are bad for the sport,

1069
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: bad for the fans, and bad for the competitive balance.

1070
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 2: And I want to tell you, as a glimmer of

1071
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 2: hope for all of our pro labor, pro union and

1072
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 2: pro players out there, that that offers a just a lice,

1073
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 2: little like shot right through the owners where I could

1074
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 2: see them possibly faction and break this thing up after

1075
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 2: a few months. This will go on mind them for

1076
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,319
Speaker 2: a few months, like no one can get their hopes up.

1077
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 2: This will be done a second before February.

1078
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: Question. Yes, and I don't know if you have the answer,

1079
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,399
Speaker 1: but the one hundred million dollar reduction, so that would

1080
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: be amongst the team's revenue correct.

1081
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 3: I don't know exactly what that means.

1082
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: Three point three million dollars a team.

1083
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 2: I guess basically one hundred million dollars moves less because

1084
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 2: revenue sharing isn't like it all goes around like basically, yeah,

1085
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 2: the fifteen richest teams in baseball will money will flow

1086
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 2: from them to the fifteen poorest teams in baseball. And

1087
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 2: there's other things that flow from the rich teams of

1088
00:41:59,360 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 2: the pour teams.

1089
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 3: One knows this.

1090
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 2: But in also with the competitive balanced rules, the fourteen

1091
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 2: or twelve poorest teams in baseball get extra picks in

1092
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 2: the draft every single year and extra slot butt money

1093
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: for the international signing pool. That's how teams like the

1094
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 2: Rays and the A's are very consistently able to max

1095
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: out their pool and sign the best guys out there

1096
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 2: and be able to compete with teams like the Yankees

1097
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 2: because they'll have more of a budget to do so.

1098
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,879
Speaker 3: It's very interesting and something that's really swept under the ruck.

1099
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: And if you look at the end of the MLB

1100
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 2: drafts first and second round, they have what's called the

1101
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 2: competitive balance rounds, where a couple teams will get a

1102
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: couple picks sprinkled in seemingly for no reason, and it

1103
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 2: will kind of alternate whether by year, some teams will

1104
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:37,919
Speaker 2: get to pick at the end of the first round

1105
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: and those teams will get a bigger bonus of slot money,

1106
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 2: and some teams will get an extra pick at the

1107
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: end of the second roun those teams will still get

1108
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 2: slot money, but a little bit less. Precedent's already been

1109
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 2: set where the owners owners certain teams are getting certain

1110
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: benefits because of their lack of intrinsic lack of value

1111
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: that other teams do not.

1112
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,800
Speaker 3: So they're just really could be a way.

1113
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,839
Speaker 2: That the rich owners would love to reopen up those

1114
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 2: competitive balanced negotiations, give the players what they want, get

1115
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:04,919
Speaker 2: them the free agency quicker, and be able to sign

1116
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:06,719
Speaker 2: them for more money than the other teams have to

1117
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:08,919
Speaker 2: offer while they're still closer to their primes.

1118
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 1: Which especially is funny too now because you are seeing

1119
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,759
Speaker 1: some of the lower payroll teams become very very good,

1120
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,440
Speaker 1: like the Rays and the Brewers, And this competitive balance

1121
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: thing is supposed to help the teams that have lesser payrolls,

1122
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: but it's actually making them into the mega giants that

1123
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,759
Speaker 1: they're becoming right now and the tougher teams. So the

1124
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: rich teams are going, why are we helping one of

1125
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: our competitors who are getting this stuff because they're being

1126
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 1: told that they can't compete without it. Why are we

1127
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 1: helping them out when they're still one of the best

1128
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: teams in baseball?

1129
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 2: A team like the Rays, for example, last year, had

1130
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 2: almost a complete net zero between the money they pulled

1131
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 2: into revenue sharing and their team's payroll seventy six million dollars,

1132
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 2: so that every single dollar that the Rays actually made

1133
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 2: was house money at that point, and they could stash

1134
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 2: that into player development, into hiring more analysts, more data,

1135
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 2: more numbers, more engineers, like that is the kind of

1136
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 2: way that you can defeat the giants. And I just

1137
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 2: really think that some of these owners, like namely Steve

1138
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: Cohen want so badly to have a full season this

1139
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 2: year that's gonna be ready to rip and more time

1140
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 2: to run this through his free agency window, that there's

1141
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 2: really a pathway for the owners of the rich and

1142
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: poor team to fracture before the players do. Because if

1143
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 2: you've listened to Shirzer and Boris and Tony Clark talk

1144
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 2: even over the last few months, even if you go

1145
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 2: back the last few years, everyone was very clear since

1146
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 2: the twenty sixteen seed b a negotiation, this was gonna happen,

1147
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 2: and that.

1148
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 3: Year twenty sixteen.

1149
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 2: Also, I think it's kind of important because I feel

1150
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:29,799
Speaker 2: like was like kind of the crux of when more

1151
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,360
Speaker 2: information starts to flow into baseball, everyone starts to be

1152
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 2: more aware of their value and the value that people

1153
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 2: around them. Apparently the players have this gigantic trust that

1154
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 2: they've been building for the last five years that they've

1155
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 2: been paying into consistently. So if push comes to shove

1156
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 2: and this they do get locked out for a while,

1157
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 2: there is money to be dispersed to the guys making

1158
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,879
Speaker 2: the minimum, which I think is kind of a beautiful thing.

1159
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: No, it kind of does put a little bit more

1160
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: pressure on the owners and I think like a lot

1161
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 1: of stuff. It's a lot of he said, she said,

1162
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: it's a lot of name call it. It's like kind

1163
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: of in the ugly stages right now. But what you

1164
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,399
Speaker 1: were talking about with like these these owners maybe being

1165
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: split in guys probably pushing forward as it gets closer

1166
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: and closer. I do believe that the season is going

1167
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 1: to be on time. And I know that might be

1168
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: a hot take right now based on how things feel,

1169
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: but there's simply too much money on the table, and

1170
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: it really feels like the only person that lose besides

1171
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,759
Speaker 1: the fans are the owners because it hits them where

1172
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 1: it counts, and that's the wallet, definitely.

1173
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 2: And I could see both of these groups really posturing

1174
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 2: right now as probably is what's going on. Like I

1175
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 2: could see the players not really having as much money

1176
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 2: in that reserve as maybe they'd like people think. And

1177
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 2: I can see the owners being pretty willing to bend

1178
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 2: on a couple of those points. Like we said before,

1179
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 2: they wouldn't bend for it that final meeting.

1180
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 3: But you just have to think.

1181
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 2: Guys like Cohen, Housetein, Brunner, Magic Johnson, the fucking rich

1182
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: ass Guggenheim Group, John Henry.

1183
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 3: I could see those.

1184
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 2: Guys flaking giving the players everything they wanted, because at

1185
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 2: the ends of the day, that will make their teams

1186
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,959
Speaker 2: potentially stronger because they're willing to fork out more money

1187
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: and they'll be getting a more valuable portion of players'

1188
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 2: careers if they push arbitration and free agency a year earlier.

1189
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,240
Speaker 1: I also wonder if some of the like poorer teams,

1190
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: like Bob Castelani I think has the lowest net worth

1191
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 1: of any owner, and maybe he's not the team, but

1192
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: I want the Reds.

1193
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 2: I thought, I actually have a tweet I was gonna

1194
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: talk about later as the Marlins are the lowest, but.

1195
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I wonder if the fact that

1196
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: like this could be a huge way that these owners

1197
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: are these people who own these team actually accumulate their wealth.

1198
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:23,840
Speaker 1: They're not gonna want to miss out on that either.

1199
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 1: It feels like it would just be so foolish to

1200
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: really screw this thing up when there's so much money

1201
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:30,839
Speaker 1: and everyone's gonna make so much. Not that you're talking

1202
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: about petties on the dollar, but to these millionaires and billionaires,

1203
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,560
Speaker 1: it's really just it's nitpicking. At this point, it feels

1204
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: like definitely.

1205
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 2: And but the thing is with these billionaires, these are

1206
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 2: different classes of billionaires, and they have very different thoughts

1207
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:45,479
Speaker 2: and ideas. Like these poorer owners, poorer owners, these these

1208
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: guys were just a single billion They really don't want

1209
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 2: a salary floor, like really, really fucking badly. That's a

1210
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: critical point for a lot of these guys Steve Cohen, Helseeimer,

1211
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 2: magic Jack and don't care about salary floor. They can

1212
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 2: kind of hold that over an internal negotiation with the

1213
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 2: other owners as long as these they like leave in

1214
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 2: a revenue share to really ensure their own dominance. And

1215
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 2: like there's a chart that came out from at Is

1216
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 2: Rosenbum Rosenan Jordan Blum. He writes for Dynasty Guru, following

1217
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 2: each other for a while. He's a sharp he's a

1218
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 2: sharp young man. I think I'm assuming.

1219
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1220
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 3: It could be incorrect.

1221
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 2: And basically it just shows like how much these teams'

1222
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 2: valuations have increased since two thousand and four. It's a

1223
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 2: kind of an arbitrary start tape. I think seventeen years

1224
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 2: is a pretty good place to be. In two thousand

1225
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 2: and four, the average value of a franchise was half

1226
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: of a billion dollars less like four hundred thousand dollars

1227
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 2: four to twenty thousand dollars exactly a million.

1228
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, I wish it was four hundred

1229
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: thousand dollars.

1230
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 2: Yea, the average cost of franchise was four hundred and

1231
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 2: twenty million dollars, less than half a billion. Right now

1232
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 2: in the Lawyers year of twenty twenty one, the numbers

1233
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 2: nearly two billion, one point nine to one. And of

1234
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,800
Speaker 2: course that's a little bit skewed by a team like

1235
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 2: the Yankees, who's valued like five point two billion, or

1236
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 2: the Dodgers, the Red Sox, the Cubs, the Giants, the Mets,

1237
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 2: who are all valued clean over two billions, some of

1238
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: those other teams over three billion. But you look at

1239
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:56,919
Speaker 2: the teams that are the least valuable in the league

1240
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 2: right now is the Marlins, the Rays, the Royals, the Reds,

1241
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 2: the A's. All those teams are at or around a

1242
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: billion dollars clean, So that's a pretty decent spot to

1243
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 2: be where I'm sure you have some wiggle room to

1244
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: manage your baseball team in a way where you spend

1245
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 2: more than like forty fifty sixty or seventy million dollars

1246
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 2: a year.

1247
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: I was gonna bring up the Marlins because they had

1248
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 1: that you know, historic sale when they sold the team

1249
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 1: to the Jeter Group or whatever we're gonna call that.

1250
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 1: And this is an organization that has no branding, no

1251
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,839
Speaker 1: fan base, has a hard time generating revenue. There's the

1252
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 1: only thing that's worth or I guess has any value

1253
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: to the Marlins or of the Marlins, is that they

1254
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: are an established Major League Baseball franchise in a major sit.

1255
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 3: That's literally it. They're at the floor of value right now.

1256
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: It can't be worse, it can't get worse. And it's

1257
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: one billion fucking dollars.

1258
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 2: And that number is up from somewhere around like a couple,

1259
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 2: like a couple hundred million dollars just seventeen years ago.

1260
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 2: So that return on investment in a seventeen year window

1261
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 2: is something that people will literally like try to kill

1262
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 2: themselves over to get money like that in that period

1263
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:55,160
Speaker 2: of time.

1264
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: And I think owners like to throw around, you know,

1265
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: like operating out a loss right and it's like kind

1266
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 1: of that big business speak as well, these owners aren't

1267
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: losing money. We need to make that very very clear.

1268
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: There is no losing of money. Really with these owners,

1269
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: they're just making less than the year prior or less

1270
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 1: than the projective values. And that was a big thing

1271
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 1: with the whole twenty twenty block out from COVID as well,

1272
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: which I think is also playing to why these are

1273
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: super super hostile as well, is because the players got

1274
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 1: bent over a barrel. In that exact it's just like

1275
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 1: the way that they're speaking in the way that all

1276
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: the word and the jargon and stuff that's coming out

1277
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 1: right now, it's very much anti player and really, at

1278
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 1: the end of the day, the players are what make

1279
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,319
Speaker 1: major League baseball. The teams are just a vehicle to

1280
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: just monetize these players. It feels so crazy to me

1281
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 1: when I see people take the owner side and not

1282
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 1: the players.

1283
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:41,959
Speaker 2: Doesn't make any sense as fans, like we should want

1284
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 2: these players who are just simply worth less than these

1285
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 2: owners when push comes a shove to get everything they can,

1286
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 2: like the game becomes great because of them, the fact

1287
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,479
Speaker 2: they need to have every opportunity possibly become great baseball players,

1288
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 2: because that's at the end of day, all we want

1289
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 2: to see is great baseball players doing great things. And

1290
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 2: we should also make a distinction that when we say

1291
00:49:57,880 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 2: these teams are valued a billion dollars. Of course, these

1292
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,760
Speaker 2: guys don't have a billion dollars setting their bank account.

1293
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 2: It's not just like I can spend a billion, so

1294
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 2: let me spend a hundred million one hundred million, And

1295
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 2: that's not how it works. But basically, the fact that

1296
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 2: these guys have been so green for so many years

1297
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:12,280
Speaker 2: now that there's no reason to say that they can't

1298
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 2: be everyone can't be trying to win every single year,

1299
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 2: or at least tanking with a purpose rather than just

1300
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 2: tanking into oblivion, seeing if you can come up green

1301
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 2: and get lucky and compete when you're ready to again.

1302
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:25,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, which there have been a lot of franchises. I

1303
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: mean even there, there are some franchises that have some

1304
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 1: super rich owners that don't care about competing and spending money,

1305
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 1: namely the Indians and the A's.

1306
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:33,360
Speaker 3: The Guardians.

1307
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: Both of those yeah, oh yeah, the Guardians, I keep

1308
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,720
Speaker 1: calling them the Indians, the Guardians. Both of those owners

1309
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: I believe are in the top ten of net worth

1310
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: of Major League Baseball. And the A's shockingly, because I

1311
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: know the Dolan families just got endless money. We know

1312
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: that with the Knicks, but the A's guy, Bobby Fisher

1313
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: or whatever his name is, it sports like three point

1314
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: nine billion dollars or something like that. Two point nine billion. Again,

1315
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 1: like you said, it's not money that they can just

1316
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: spend two point John Fisher, he doesn't have like two

1317
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 1: point nine billion dollars that he's like, Okay, I could

1318
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: just start writing check. Yeah, But the idea that the

1319
00:51:01,640 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 1: A's operate is one of the lowest payroll teams every

1320
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,720
Speaker 1: year and trade away all this great talent. And granted

1321
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: they have been able to compete still, but they could

1322
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: put together some great teams and they're just okay with

1323
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: being good enough. And that's that's the problem. I think

1324
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: that players have a lot too, is that, really, if

1325
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: you are a player who wants to be on a

1326
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: winning team and get paid, you only have about a

1327
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: handful of teams that you can realistically go to. And

1328
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: the Royals and the Pirates and the Rats are the Reds.

1329
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 1: They're not any of those teams.

1330
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 3: No, they're not.

1331
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 2: And it's a shame because you would think that owning

1332
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 2: a baseball team, the number one thing in your mind

1333
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 2: would be competition. And just the fact that these guys

1334
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 2: are willing to completely flounder and just not even try

1335
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 2: to win baseball games. It should be the entire reason

1336
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 2: you're in this game at all. Is a little bit upsetting,

1337
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 2: and I think there needs to be measures taken that

1338
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 2: stop that. I think a salary floor is something that's

1339
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 2: very likely to happen, and I think that is something

1340
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:53,760
Speaker 2: that could turn the owners against one another and create

1341
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 2: some kind of victory for the players and the end

1342
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 2: of the day, a victory for Steve Cohen the Mets,

1343
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 2: which is really what I'm more care about here. I

1344
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 2: want the players to get their due, but the players

1345
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:02,960
Speaker 2: getting their due it means the Mets will be in

1346
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 2: a better spot, and I like that a lot.

1347
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh the Mets are, and the Mets are in

1348
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 1: the driver's seed here. There's kind of almost no way

1349
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: that they lose unless there's a salary cap put in place.

1350
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,959
Speaker 1: But even then we'd have to be grandfathered in or something.

1351
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: With how much money we spent. And I also wonder

1352
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: how much of Steve's Cohen's, you know, spending this offseason

1353
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,360
Speaker 1: and the fact that he's just blown through the luxury

1354
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: tax is going to rub off on the owners and

1355
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: how they're gonna feel about that too, knowing that holy shit,

1356
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: this thirteen this guy who's worth thirteen million dollars just

1357
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 1: came in and just said, I don't fucking care. All

1358
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: my money's gone.

1359
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 2: And a lot of the teams who were closer to that,

1360
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 2: to that what was previously known as a competitive balance tax,

1361
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 2: uh the luxury tax threshold, were the ones who weren't

1362
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,760
Speaker 2: very active during this window. Specifically the Astros, the Yankees,

1363
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 2: and the Red Sox three teams that were heaving up

1364
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 2: against that for a lot of years now and decide

1365
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 2: to kind of hold back and wait to see what

1366
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 2: the rules were. So I think I think Steve Cohen's

1367
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 2: going to have a pretty significant share of the headlines

1368
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 2: that come out of this negotiation. I think that there's

1369
00:52:57,520 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 2: a world where he can become a champion of the players.

1370
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,439
Speaker 2: I think that'd be rate for his gravitas. To bring

1371
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 2: this back to how we roseword.

1372
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 1: It would be sick if Steve Cohen became a champion

1373
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 1: for the players. He's got the most money in baseball,

1374
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 1: plays in the biggest market in all of sports.

1375
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,319
Speaker 3: Fuck these chief skates, and he's for.

1376
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:13,839
Speaker 1: The players because I'll pay you, which I just paid

1377
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: thirty seven year old max years or forty three million

1378
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 1: dollars a year. I don't fucking care. You're gonna help

1379
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 1: us win, you can play here.

1380
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 3: I think that's the world that could happen.

1381
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,439
Speaker 2: I think there is this faction of owners that could

1382
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:24,399
Speaker 2: turn this entire negotiation on his head. I think it'll

1383
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 2: be interesting to see if that happens. A fun storyline

1384
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 2: in a world where it's every other shread of logic

1385
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 2: points of the players just getting taken advantage of for

1386
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 2: the upteenth time, and sports and labor negotiations.

1387
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, really hope that the players get a w on

1388
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: this one. And really, at the end of the day,

1389
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 1: I just need baseball back. Just the fact that we're

1390
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: probably gonna go a month and a half two months

1391
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 1: of just literally nothing happening besides negotiations and whatever we

1392
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 1: actually hear goes on sucks and that's not good for

1393
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: the game baseball. That's a loss for the game of

1394
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 1: baseball because there was so much hype, especially after the

1395
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one season where we had young stars like

1396
00:53:56,719 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: Juan Soto, Tatis, Shoho, Tani, Vlaguerrero Junior do such great

1397
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 1: things for the game and grow the game so much

1398
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,280
Speaker 1: to have this black cloud that's been looming over baseball

1399
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 1: after the other cloud or the cheating scandals, and then

1400
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:11,280
Speaker 1: the black cloud of the cheating with the sticky stuff,

1401
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: and there's just like all these weird negative things that

1402
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball puts onto the sport that is trying

1403
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: desperately to break away from it.

1404
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 2: You can even pull like Bajor League Baseball scandals and

1405
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,839
Speaker 2: chaos all the way back up until the last strike

1406
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,200
Speaker 2: in the nineties. That last strike in nineteen ninety four

1407
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 2: killed baseball's popularity to a point's literally never gotten back,

1408
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 2: you know. Sarah's the most recent Rates and Barrels podcast

1409
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,800
Speaker 2: pointed out the fact that MLB still has not gotten

1410
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 2: back to their World Series ratings and like TV ratings

1411
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 2: that they were at in the late eighties and early

1412
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 2: nineties still to this day, they never recovered. A lot

1413
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 2: of people after that strike said fuck this sport, and

1414
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 2: that is something serious is gonna happen. It's just a

1415
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 2: shame that we're looking that down to barrel after one

1416
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 2: of the most popular years in the modern era of baseball.

1417
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it sucks. The way baseball artificially got it

1418
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:55,800
Speaker 1: back was let everybody cheat and take steroids, which we

1419
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 1: also know is another black cloud around the sport.

1420
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,200
Speaker 2: Like that still didn't get it back to those levels

1421
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:00,520
Speaker 2: though it' still think get back to where it was.

1422
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:02,439
Speaker 2: Even to this day, it still has never gone back

1423
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:02,960
Speaker 2: to where it was.

1424
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: Yep, and it's not a good look for baseball. I mean,

1425
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 1: any final thoughts here on this, because it's just we

1426
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,320
Speaker 1: want baseball back. I really feel like that's kind of it.

1427
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.

1428
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:13,600
Speaker 2: I mean we're gonna talk about this probably a little

1429
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 2: bit of each episode because it's gonna be not that

1430
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 2: much else to talk about it all besides like fun

1431
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 2: stuff that we're gonna do together. So maybe we'll save

1432
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:20,799
Speaker 2: some more of these facts and stuff. But I think

1433
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 2: this was a very good introduction if anyone didn't know

1434
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 2: anything about it, and it was fun to research, honestly.

1435
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,959
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I mean, like the labor negotiations while suck.

1436
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:30,120
Speaker 1: You know, from the outside looking in, there is a

1437
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: lot of nuances and intricacies to these things that are

1438
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,480
Speaker 1: quite fascinating, and hopefully as we learn them as well,

1439
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: we'll tell you guys all about it. We got a

1440
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:39,760
Speaker 1: weekly podcast right now, we got to come up with content.

1441
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: We will tell you anything that we know.

1442
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,040
Speaker 2: Literally, we're fine to talk on here for an hour

1443
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 2: every single week.

1444
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: That's easy, yes, which we basically have this episode. Do

1445
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: you want to talk about the Hall of Fame ballot

1446
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:49,399
Speaker 1: real quick? Because why not at.

1447
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 3: Least shout out. We got a shout out Kill Hodges.

1448
00:55:51,320 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, shout Gill Hodges finally made it. Long time coming again.

1449
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,440
Speaker 1: A lot of the Howie Rose type Met fans are

1450
00:55:56,480 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 1: super excited about that because he just you know, he

1451
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 1: deserved to be in there. The Mets did kill Gill Hodges,

1452
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 1: but they killed Gil Hodges.

1453
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1454
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: I had to bring that back from Donald Greca, Don

1455
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 1: dom Don, Don Mgreca legendary, legendary, but good to see

1456
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: Gill Hodges get in the Hall Fame.

1457
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 2: I like also a big day for a lot of

1458
00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 2: the former Negro League stars, Minyi Minoso, Buck O'Neill, there

1459
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 2: was another one, right.

1460
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: And then Tony o Leiva. I don't think he was

1461
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 1: a Negro League No, he was.

1462
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 2: A Reds guy. And Dick Allen didn't get in somehow,

1463
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 2: which is ridiculous, ridiculous. One of the better baseball players

1464
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 2: that was played in that era, like seventies, late seventies

1465
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 2: or sixties.

1466
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 1: He was awesome. He was awesome. Missed it by one vote.

1467
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 1: This is gonna be uh, you know, he'll get it eventually.

1468
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: That's the good thing here. But the Veterans Committee, they

1469
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 1: typically don't miss and they did a good job with this,

1470
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, group of four all four of these are deserving.

1471
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 3: Daryl Baines they let in, which was ridiculous.

1472
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hate that whole conversation because it's so awkward

1473
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 1: to like just you know, shit on a guy for

1474
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:50,719
Speaker 1: what is probably one of the most like proud achievements

1475
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: of his life. So it's like I always feel so

1476
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:54,799
Speaker 1: bad doing it. But like, yeah, guy's not a Hall

1477
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: of Famer.

1478
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 3: No, definitely not.

1479
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 2: And are we sure this wasn't a third another guy

1480
00:56:59,360 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 2: that was brought in.

1481
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 3: It was just Minyosa and Buck O'Neill.

1482
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: It was Minoso, Buck O'Neil, Jacott Minyosa. I think it's

1483
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: pronounced minosa. Well, and then well, I don't know what

1484
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: ny I really I've only ever heard it miny Minoso.

1485
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,400
Speaker 1: But you're probably right the na yeah, the way it

1486
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: spells mini Minyosa. Yes, but that guy in Jim Cott

1487
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 1: as well, who was out there on MB the show

1488
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 1: all the time. MB the show and lead network all

1489
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: the time. He was a good picture.

1490
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 2: Have you seen what's going on LB Network recently? No,

1491
00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,320
Speaker 2: they can't show highlights of players. They're no longer associated

1492
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 2: with the league, so they're just doing random shit.

1493
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,280
Speaker 1: You haven't seen this well, I mean, there's been no

1494
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: baseball to talk about, so why am I gonna watch? Everyone?

1495
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 2: After you listen to this, should tune into LB Network

1496
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 2: for just three or four minus because I'm sure it's

1497
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,360
Speaker 2: gonna be chaos. They're showing clips of guys from the eighties,

1498
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,920
Speaker 2: guys we are unaffiliated with Major League Baseball because they

1499
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:41,440
Speaker 2: can't show them.

1500
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 1: That's funny, I know, like they took off all the

1501
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: names and or all the pictures on MLB.

1502
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 3: Dot com and so petty, so petty.

1503
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 1: There's a thought that for MB, the show might not

1504
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 1: be able to release the game on time because all

1505
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: the player like this stuff.

1506
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 3: That's kind of insane honestly, which.

1507
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:57,320
Speaker 1: Would really suck. But I don't know. CBA is not

1508
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: going anywhere anytime soon. Hall of Fame Hobby bias Man.

1509
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: We talked a lot in this episode. I think it's

1510
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: a perfect place to wrap it up. Would you agree.

1511
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this was a great episode.

1512
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 1: If I'm gonna be honest with us, yeah, we we

1513
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:08,919
Speaker 1: always got great episodes. I'm gonna we're gonn I'm gonna

1514
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:10,480
Speaker 1: tooot our own horn here. We always have a great

1515
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,120
Speaker 1: episode and that's because you guys listen, and the listeners

1516
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: keep growing and we appreciate it. Thank you so much.

1517
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: We got up to the number what eight.

1518
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:20,920
Speaker 2: Eight ranked podcast number one independently produced, So shout out

1519
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 2: you guys for sticking with us through this first trying year.

1520
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 1: The big name, the big media name attached would be

1521
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: mine and I am definitely not a company of media

1522
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 1: by any sorts.

1523
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:30,120
Speaker 3: And we we got you got got my name on

1524
00:58:30,200 --> 00:58:31,560
Speaker 3: that thing. That's insane. It's rude.

1525
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 1: I know, I don't know how to do it, but

1526
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 1: I will look into it. We'll look into it. The

1527
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,520
Speaker 1: fact that it just says Mark Luido is disrespectful Unelie.

1528
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,000
Speaker 1: But hey, James is a big part of this. Follow

1529
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: James on Twitter at Jeter had no range. You just

1530
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: hit three k followers from Twitter spaces, so big time.

1531
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 1: Thanks to you guys for following James and supporting the

1532
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 1: podcast as well as the podcast. Twitter has been growing

1533
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: like crazy. Let's wrap it up now, episode number sixty

1534
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:55,400
Speaker 1: five of The Mess Up Podcast. That's all we got

1535
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,240
Speaker 1: for you, guys. Make sure you're following us on Twitter, Instagram,

1536
00:58:57,320 --> 00:58:59,959
Speaker 1: TikTok apt mess Up YouTube channel for the YouTube version

1537
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: of It Messed Up podcast. Listen to us on Apple podcasts, Spotify,

1538
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 1: Google podcasts. Wherever you can listen, you can find us.

1539
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: Drops a rating, drop us a review. We'll see on

1540
00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 1: the next episode of The mess Up Podcast, episode number

1541
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: sixty six.

1542
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 3: Peace Out guys, Peace out guys. Thanks for listening.

1543
00:59:15,120 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 2: Peas