1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,600 Speaker 1: We celebrate in love and we danced. 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:05,279 Speaker 2: Then it was amazing. 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: Then the rockets started in gunshots everywhere. 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 2: We managed to escape, but. 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:14,920 Speaker 3: There are a lot of friends that didn't. 6 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 4: What we will do to our enemies in the coming days, 7 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 4: will reverberate with them for generations. 8 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 2: A missile hit in the square and there was rubble 9 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: hitting us. As we were walking. There was glass metal. 10 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: It was like doomsday. 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 5: There are civilians here whom are not our enemy, and 12 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,240 Speaker 5: we do not want to target them. We are asking 13 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 5: them to evacuate. 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: There are fifty people in the house without any food, drink, water, 15 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: or electricity. 16 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: I don't know how we'll provide food for our children. 17 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 6: War isn't what we're looking for, but war was forced 18 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 6: upon us by a bloodthirsty terrorist organization. 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 5: On the seventh of October, Hamas attacked Israel. One two 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 5: hundred people were killed and more than two hundred others 21 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 5: taken to Gaza as hostages. It was the largest loss 22 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 5: of Jewish life since the Holocaust. Israel's military response was swift. 23 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 5: At the time of this recording, Gaza's Hamas run government 24 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 5: says more than fifteen thousand people have been killed there, 25 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 5: including thousands of children a moment ago. You heard from 26 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 5: some of those at the heart of this story in 27 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 5: Israel and in Gaza, but the impact of the conflict 28 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 5: is being felt far beyond the Middle East, from Cape 29 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 5: Town to Paris, London and New York. Reports of hate 30 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 5: crimes have risen dramatically. It's a difficult evolution to measure, 31 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 5: but our global team of Bloomberg journalists have been collating 32 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 5: the data, allowing us to build a unique picture of 33 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 5: rising anti Semitism and anti Arab, anti Muslim sentiment. For 34 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 5: this special program, we've brought together some of the journalists 35 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 5: who worked on this project to hear what they found 36 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 5: out and some of those affected. Let's start in New York, 37 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 5: and our bureau chief, Katia Poorzakanski is with us for this. Katia, 38 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 5: what's changed in New York for the Jewish and Muslim 39 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 5: communities since the seventh of October. 40 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 4: I'd say New York is on edge. The city is 41 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 4: a home to the largest Muslim population in the United States, 42 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 4: but also the largest Jewish population outside of Israel. We've 43 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 4: had demonstrations in the streets starting the day after the 44 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 4: attacks in Israel and seemingly haven't stopped it's been a 45 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 4: constant flow of demonstrations in the streets and on campuses, 46 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 4: and it's putting all the communities on edge. 47 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: Kati. 48 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 5: A lot of this discourse has been playing out, as 49 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 5: you've said, in universities. What is the conversation that's being 50 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 5: had there? What sorts of things have we been hearing 51 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 5: from from people attending those universes. 52 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: So in the. 53 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 4: United States, universities are in large part bound by freedom 54 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 4: of speech, which means you can say a lot, you 55 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 4: can protest, of course, you can hold signs, you can 56 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 4: say hateful things. In large part, universities, however, are also 57 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 4: bound by the Civil Rights Act. They have to protect 58 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 4: students from discrimination. So you're having this kind of strange 59 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 4: situation happening on campuses where the bounds of free speech 60 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 4: are really being tested, but at the same time administrators 61 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 4: are being scrutinized to make sure that they're not allowing 62 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 4: for discriminatory environments. The Anti Defamation League has seen a 63 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 4: tremendous surge in anti Semitism incidents in the country and 64 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 4: says a large bulk of them are happening on campuses. 65 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 4: You have assaults, threats in Cornell University a student was 66 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 4: arrested for making threats to kill Jews on campus and 67 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 4: to shoot up the Kosher dining hall. But then you 68 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 4: also have, you know, the perceived anti Semitism that students 69 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 4: are feeling, for example, from some of the signs that 70 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 4: are being held at some of the demonstrations on campus. 71 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 4: And that's where you get into kind of this gray 72 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 4: area where one student is saying, look, this is a 73 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,680 Speaker 4: direct threat on my life, and another student I say, 74 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 4: you're misinterpreting what I'm saying here. I spoke with two 75 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 4: individuals who are trying to bring the two communities together, 76 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 4: Rabbi Mark Schneider and Imam shamzi Eli, and they met 77 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 4: with a Jewish community of students from different schools in 78 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 4: the New York area, and then they met with a 79 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 4: community of Muslim leaders similarly from the schools in the area. 80 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,799 Speaker 4: And you know, one of the first things that happened 81 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 4: in their meeting with the Muslim leaders was the Muslim 82 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 4: students that we are not pro Hamas, and we are 83 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 4: being conflated as being pro Hamas. We are trying to 84 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 4: demonstrate for the city of Gaza that are being killed. 85 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 4: When you talk to Jewish students. You know, they're saying 86 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 4: you have signs that are saying from the river to 87 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 4: the sea, and that is a direct threat for the 88 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 4: eradication of Israel and a threat on my life potentially. 89 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 4: So these are the nuances that are appearing. But then 90 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:24,040 Speaker 4: they're also very blatant acts of hate that are really 91 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 4: concerning to leaders. 92 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 5: We'll come back to New York in a moment, but 93 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 5: I want to go next to Paris and Bloomberg's Jenny 94 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 5: Chain and France's home to the largest both Jewish and 95 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 5: Muslim communities in Europe. That's numbers based though on survey evidence, 96 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 5: because official statistics in France don't include religion due to 97 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,559 Speaker 5: the seculers and principles and trined in French low Jenny, 98 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 5: I want to talk to you about how much we 99 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 5: know about how much hate crime has increased in France 100 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 5: since the seventh of October. 101 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 7: It's really hard to quantify the change in a number 102 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 7: of hate crimes in France since the start of the war. 103 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 7: The French government has been very vocal about the rise 104 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 7: of the anti Semitic acts in the last few weeks, 105 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 7: but authorities have not been very good at providing comparative data, 106 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 7: particularly about the number of acts totaling Muslims in the 107 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 7: same period, and you have seen the government is taking 108 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 7: a different approach to these two different communities. There was 109 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 7: a cross country march against Scientism held earlier in November 110 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 7: that drew one hundred and eighty thousand people and several 111 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 7: government officials, including the Prime Minister, Elizabeth Won. 112 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: Obviously, it was important for me to be here with 113 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: my government to say that France must protect all of 114 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: its citizens who may be worried because of their origins, 115 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: all their religion. The government and all ministers want to 116 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: say to all our fellow citizens of the Jewish faith 117 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: that we are at their sides, we are alert, and 118 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: we will not let anything pass us by. 119 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 7: On the other hand, a few days after the war, 120 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 7: the government tried to issue a blanket ban on pro 121 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 7: Palestinian demonstrations. Later a court rule that it was up 122 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 7: to regional authorities to decide on a case by case basis. 123 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 7: But we're seeing this uneven data in this different approach 124 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 7: to the communities, and that's it's made it hard to 125 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 7: track the difference in acts targeting Jewish people here and 126 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 7: Muslim people here. 127 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 5: France has seen several high profile anti Semitic attacks in 128 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 5: recent years, the attacks on a Jewish school and Toulose 129 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 5: in twenty twelve, the supermarket attack in twenty fifteen as well. 130 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 5: How have the community been responding to this latest rise 131 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 5: in anti Semitism? 132 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 7: So the government has given numbers on Antisemitic acts since 133 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 7: the start of the war, and there have been more 134 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 7: than fifteen hundred and that's more than three times all 135 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 7: of two thousand and two. But it's partial data, so 136 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 7: they haven't produced data on anti Muslim acts. But the 137 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 7: result has been that there is more concern within the 138 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 7: Jewish community and Juna dan Ashi, the president of Kreef, 139 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 7: which is an umbrella organization for Jewish groups in the country, 140 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 7: said that some Jewish people have changed their day to 141 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 7: day behaviors and that may include a notably kind of 142 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 7: removing outward religious symbols such as taking the star of 143 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 7: David Arthur Nicholas or changing their names to a lesser 144 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 7: Jewish stunding name when they're putting in in order on 145 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 7: food delivery apps. 146 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 5: Let's go to South Africa next. Michael Cohne is our 147 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 5: South Africa government reporter in Cape Town, of course, Michael. 148 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 5: The history of racial division as well known as South Africa. 149 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 5: But this is a conflict that's created a very different 150 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 5: kind of schism. The government's position on the Israel Hamas War. 151 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 5: How is that effect during the Jewish community there. 152 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 8: Traditionally relationships between the Jewish community and the government have 153 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 8: been pretty cordial. We've seen the Rebbils being invited to 154 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,200 Speaker 8: speak at major nationally ben So, You've seen the president 155 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 8: going to the synagogue and so on. Since startbreak of 156 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 8: the war, the relationship has really gone down the tube, 157 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 8: and the Jewish community is really really unhappy about the 158 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 8: position that the government has taken of Africa. Is one 159 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 8: of five Developing Nathans that's called on the Criminal Court 160 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 8: to investigate where the Israeli authorities are guilty of war crimes. 161 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 8: They are really very disappointed at the government's failure to 162 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 8: express their sympathies about all the people that were killed 163 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 8: in southern Israel. The relationship really is at an all 164 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 8: time and low. Incidance of anti Semitism here I've also 165 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 8: spiked We've seen a number of protests on a weekly basis. 166 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 8: We've seen protests from both sides. The situation really is 167 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 8: at its lowest ever. 168 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 5: Michael I wanted to bring in one of the interviews 169 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 5: that our team has conducted for this piece. Karen Milner 170 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 5: is the national chairperson of the South African Jewish Board 171 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 5: of Deputies. Let's take a listen to what she has 172 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 5: to say about this. 173 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 3: And we've seen over eighty incidentss of antisemitism in the 174 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 3: last month, and the severity of those. 175 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 8: Are much much worse. 176 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 3: We've seen a rabbi who was a TechEd in his car, 177 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,439 Speaker 3: there was an attempt to drive him to put him 178 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: off the road that he was subject to gross into 179 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 3: Semitic abuse, and there was an. 180 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: Attempt to raim his car. 181 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 3: So that's one example of the level of fun and 182 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 3: anti Semitism that we're starting to see unfortunately. 183 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 5: So that's Karen Milner from the South African Jewish Board 184 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 5: of Deputies. We've also been speaking to Roshan Dado, who's 185 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,199 Speaker 5: the coordinator of the South African Boycott, Devestment and Sanctions Coalition. 186 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 5: Let's take a listen to her position. 187 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 8: Well, I would. 188 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 3: Question the fact that there's been a search of anti 189 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 3: semitism because again, I think people who are opposing what 190 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 3: the States of Israel is doing opposing this genocide and desigonists. 191 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 3: It's against designs projects. 192 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 5: Of course, that's a very strong language that some people 193 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 5: would find offensive, and Jewish people would in d say 194 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 5: is representative of the sentiment that they're experiencing in many 195 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 5: parts of the world as well. Michael, how complex is 196 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 5: this relationship in terms of its evolution and how we 197 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 5: can consider how serious this increase in anti sim incidents 198 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 5: has been. 199 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 8: The Jewish community is a really very small component of 200 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 8: the population, less than zero point one percent, but they 201 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 8: have quite a prominent role in the legal fraternity, in 202 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 8: business and so on. I think it's a really tricky 203 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 8: time for the Jewish community here. We've seen leaders saying 204 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 8: that the government is not standing up for them and 205 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 8: that they're really concerned about their future here. Most of 206 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 8: the protests that we've seen have been recently peaceful. We 207 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 8: had one pro Israel protest that was broken up by 208 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 8: some pro Palestine supporters and four people were arrested. I 209 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 8: think there are concerns that things could spiral out of control. 210 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 5: Of course, the Muslim community in South Africa is much larger. 211 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 5: The country home to almost a million Muslims. Have there 212 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 5: been a rise in incidents of Islamophobia as well. 213 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 8: I haven't picked that up in any meaningful way. I 214 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 8: think partly because the Jewish community is so small. But 215 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 8: there'll be no incident of anything in that direction. I mean, 216 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 8: we've seen security at schools and synagogues being intensified. I 217 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 8: don't think them get Muslim schools and mosques. 218 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 5: Okay, let's come back to London next. Our reporter aim 219 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 5: and Firehat is here with me now. London, aiming like 220 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 5: New York, is somewhere where there is a significant amount 221 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 5: of data that can help us to understand what's happened 222 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 5: since the seventh of October. What numbers are available first 223 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 5: of all, and what have they told us about the trend? 224 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 9: So according to the Metropolisan Police, on average is about 225 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 9: sixty cases of ant Semitic crimes in London every month, 226 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 9: but in October, just after the attack, there have been 227 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 9: five hundred and thirty three. That's almost nine times more 228 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 9: than usual. And for ssymophobic attacks it's the same thing. 229 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 9: It's about two to three times as much as the norm. 230 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 9: So definitely been a huge surge of it. It's also 231 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 9: what we hear we talk to people in the street. 232 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 9: I spoke to different community leaders. I spoke to rabbiosmams 233 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 9: and they're saying that tensions are very, very high. You know, 234 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 9: we've had mass protests on the street basically every Saturday, 235 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 9: and this culminated in the eleventh of November. We had 236 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 9: this big protest that kind of came to clash with 237 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 9: some far right groups. So the eleventh of November is 238 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 9: remembering today in the UK, remembering the fallen soldiers across 239 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 9: different wars, but specifically for World War One, and lots 240 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 9: of people from the far right decided to call on 241 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 9: their supporters that conduct to London to protect the monuments 242 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 9: and this did cause some clashes with the police. Eighteenth 243 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 9: police officers I think were injured, lots of violence there. 244 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 9: The protesters were mostly peaceful, but there is a lot 245 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 9: of tension around this. 246 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 5: One of the interviews that you have conducted around this issue, 247 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 5: Merian Berger, is the senior rabbi of the Finchally Reformed Synagogue, 248 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 5: and you spoke to her just before that demonstration in London. 249 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 10: I think it's a really difficult time to feel safe after. 250 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 9: June in London. 251 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 10: At the moment, I don't think that cancelling the rally 252 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 10: would have been something that would have made us feel safer. 253 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 10: It would have potentially made more people more committed to 254 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 10: doing something that you know, this way comes under the 255 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 10: auspices of the police to be able to patrol, to 256 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 10: be able to work in dialogue with the organizers, and 257 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 10: to be able to be in dialogue with the Jewish 258 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 10: community to say how can we help them make you 259 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 10: feel safe at this time. So, you know, I think 260 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 10: everyone's doing what they can do and hoping for the 261 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 10: bests that extremists don't win out. But actually the nuance 262 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 10: and moderate voice is the one that we hear going 263 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 10: forward and the one that's able to bring people together. 264 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 5: And it was the question of policing that was central 265 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 5: to the political debate around that particular protest. Is there 266 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 5: a sense that authorities have moved on from that response? Now, 267 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 5: how are they approaching this issue given the rise and 268 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 5: incidances that you've told us about. 269 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 9: You exactly right, politicians, some call for these marches to 270 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 9: be banned. At the end of the day, the met 271 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 9: police they have you know, plans in place to keep 272 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 9: people safe and all that, and when you talk to 273 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 9: the different community groups, whether it is you know, Miriam 274 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 9: who you just had the clip there, or to different 275 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 9: people in the Muslim community. 276 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 4: They do. 277 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 9: You see that they are working constantly with the police 278 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 9: to make sure the people are safe on public transport 279 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 9: and these marches, and most of the time it works 280 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 9: very well. You know, that has been quite a positive message. 281 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 9: And Sidi Khan, who's a mayor of London, he's also 282 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 9: really put an emphasis on this kind of bringing communities together. 283 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 9: You know, at the remembrant service for this that was 284 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 9: just before this march, he had a multi faith element 285 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 9: where he had people from different communities giving prayers and 286 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 9: he really really tries to get people to work together 287 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 9: on this issue and really not talk about the divisive 288 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 9: topics but more bring people together. 289 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 5: Let's take a listen to some of that interview with Citi. 290 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 11: Can you know these things have happened in the past. 291 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 11: This is the worst I've known it. I used to 292 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 11: be a communities minister in two thousand and nine when 293 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 11: Israel was involved in a military altercation with Gaza. I 294 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 11: think to Selle's really serving to the middle of January 295 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 11: and I remember then as a community of minister the 296 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 11: impact of communities across the country. But this is worse 297 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 11: than that. 298 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 5: That was the Mayor of London City can there aim 299 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 5: And I wonder when we look at the response from authorities, 300 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 5: from the likes of Citi can as well. Does this 301 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 5: give the communities in London a sense of safety in 302 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 5: somewhere where we have seen the rise and incense like these. 303 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 9: I mean, right now, safety is not worth that most 304 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 9: people talk about. I mean people do feel unsafe, you know, 305 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 9: at the moment. I think a lot of people say 306 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 9: that as this war goes on, if this will continuees 307 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 9: for however long these tensions will continue. There is a 308 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 9: realization that London is a good place for different communities 309 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 9: and eventually things will get better. But right now people 310 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 9: do not feel safe. 311 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 5: But let's go back to Paris and our reporter Jenny Chay. 312 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 5: We talked earlier about the French government's attempt to ban 313 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 5: some of these demonstrations and the subsequent legal cases that 314 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 5: came around. Is there a sense the French government has 315 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 5: come with a coherent response to this problem. 316 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 7: I'm not sure they have. I spoke to Abdella Zecre, 317 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 7: president of the French Council of the Muslim Bates Observatory, 318 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 7: on Islamophobia, and you told me that it would have 319 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 7: been better to have a march for peace, because when 320 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 7: you have government officials, of course, joining a march against antisemitism, 321 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 7: it can leave the impression that the government is mainly 322 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 7: supporting Israel, and some people in the Muslim community might 323 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 7: feel alienated. At the same time, the government has also 324 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 7: not really been able to provide coherent data on the exacts. 325 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 7: I mean, they're obviously speaking a lot about the rise 326 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 7: of anti Semitic acts since the war, but the fact 327 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 7: that they haven't given comparative data for acts against Muslims 328 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 7: over the same period it raises questions about the kind 329 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 7: of data that is being compiled and whether it's being 330 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 7: compiled in a way that makes it easy to analyze 331 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 7: so that the country can track these racists and discriminatory 332 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 7: acts during times of conflict, but also during normal times. 333 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 5: Katia Poisikanski in New York, you talked to through the 334 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 5: debates that are happening in universities, the demonstrations that are 335 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 5: happening in the streets of New York City are communities 336 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 5: both Jewish and Muslim, feeling comforted by the actions taken 337 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 5: by authorities. 338 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,159 Speaker 4: In terms of school authorities. No, I think everyone is 339 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 4: displeased on both sides. The Department of Education has now 340 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 4: opened seven investigations into schools in the United States. Three 341 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 4: of those schools are in New York for discrimination, so 342 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 4: the pressure is on for them to kind of get 343 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 4: the situation under control, but both sides are disappointed. For example, 344 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 4: in Columbia University, they suspended temporarily two of the pro 345 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 4: Palestinian student groups for repeated violations when it comes to 346 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 4: their demonstrations, including one that proceeded against the rules that 347 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 4: included intimidation. But by shutting down those groups, they've now 348 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 4: spurred all sorts of accusations of shutting down free speech, 349 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 4: chilling criticism of Israel, and faculty and students have written 350 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 4: in protest against the school for doing that. From the 351 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 4: Jewish community, they want to see more action taking place. 352 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 4: They want to see quicker responses to acts of anti Semitism. 353 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 4: A few students at Columbia University gave press conference a 354 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 4: few weeks ago about anti Semitism that they've faced at 355 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 4: the school and how there has been an unsatisfying response 356 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 4: from administrators to investigate those accusations. 357 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 12: My Jewish sisters and brothers and I are on the 358 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 12: receiving end of death threats from our peers. Undergraduates who 359 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 12: have filed reports about these intents have been left with 360 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 12: no emotional support, no feedback, and no consequences for the 361 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 12: perpetrators of these hateful actions. As a result of this 362 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 12: in action, there are Jewish students who do not feel 363 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 12: physically safe on campus. 364 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 4: At Cooper Union, several students came out and said they 365 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 4: felt completely unsupported by the school. When there was a 366 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 4: protest that got intimidating and there was some students that 367 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 4: entered a library. There were some Jewish, visibly Jewish students 368 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 4: in the library behind a glass wall and the protesters 369 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 4: were banging on the wall. That was a very intimidating 370 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 4: moment for those students. So there was a lot of 371 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:44,159 Speaker 4: scrutiny on that event, like what happened? Did the school 372 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 4: not have control over that protest? So there's an investigation 373 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 4: there too, So that is something that administrators are currently 374 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 4: grappling with. There's also been a tremendous scrutiny from alums, donors, 375 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 4: and employers. We reported about a list of dozens and 376 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 4: dozens of law firms that wrote to the top law 377 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 4: schools in the country, saying you have to do more 378 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 4: to protect against anti Semitism on your campuses with kind 379 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 4: of you know, a veiled threat there. If you don't know, 380 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 4: we're going to be thinking twice about hiring from your schools. 381 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,360 Speaker 5: Indicative of some of the high profile attentions that's being 382 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 5: paid to this issue in New York Michael Cohen and 383 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 5: Cape Town. Is there a sense that that same attention 384 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 5: is being paid to this issue where you are. 385 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 8: I think there have been recent attempts by the government 386 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 8: to kind of cool things down, But we had a 387 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 8: prison sam up of the writer a weekly letter to 388 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 8: the nation in which you was saying there's no place 389 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 8: for violence or threats or threats of violence against those 390 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 8: who hold country reviews, that South Africa's painful history must 391 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 8: be a reminder about the cost of a divided society. 392 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 8: And there have been meetings between Jewish organizations and the government, 393 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 8: but at the same time, the government's actions are clearly 394 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 8: reiterating its extremely pro Palestinian and anti Israel stant I 395 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 8: don't think while the Judicia organizations that said they appreciate 396 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 8: that the meetings with the government and so on, and 397 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 8: don't they through the authorities are taking any kind of 398 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 8: steps to defuse the situation in a way, and they're 399 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 8: still really unhappy at the stunts of the government to take. 400 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 5: Okay, I want to come back here to London and 401 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 5: bring you one more clip of another interview. This is 402 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 5: with imman Ata, who's the director of tel Mamma, which 403 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 5: is the national Anti Muslim Hater, Islamophobia Monitoring and support service. 404 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,400 Speaker 6: Listen, as long as the conflict is right, Palestini is going, 405 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 6: I don't think things will stop here, although it's thousands 406 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 6: of miles away from us, by impacting our communities here heavily. 407 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 6: Unless that conflict stops, that's when things maybe would start 408 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 6: coming back to normal. And I wouldn't say it would 409 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 6: come back to normal as you'll see everyone happy and 410 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 6: everyone talking with each other. No, it will take a 411 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 6: lot of time, and there are bridges that must probably 412 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 6: have been broken through our bridges that are shaken. Certain 413 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 6: ones almost probably can get back to reconnecting, but there's 414 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 6: many bridges unfortunately got broken this time because people are 415 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 6: just too angry, people that have got too many emotions going, 416 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 6: People are grieving, people lost loved ones, and people just 417 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 6: don't seem to see the humanity in each other. 418 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 5: That's a Manuta of Tealmama speaking to Aim and fire 419 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 5: house Aim and I wonder we've heard this from various interviews, 420 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 5: there being a sense of breakdown among the community's. London 421 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 5: prides itself on being this multicultural city that welcomes communities 422 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 5: from all over. Is there a sense that the damage 423 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 5: that has been done can be repaired. 424 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 9: I think what happens in the Middle East is a huge, 425 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 9: huge impact on what happens in London. Even though it's 426 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,440 Speaker 9: thousands of miles away, it still affects people here. There's 427 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 9: just so much trauma. You know, as you said in 428 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 9: that clip, you know, people have lost loved ones and 429 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 9: people are very angry with you know, on both sides. 430 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 9: The politician's rhetoric doesn't help either. You know, some people 431 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 9: have been flaming things. Social media as well is a 432 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 9: huge issue. I think, is this whole debate tell mom Actually, 433 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 9: in their own data, they showed that more than half 434 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 9: of hate crimes is online. I think the online community, 435 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,479 Speaker 9: the online space, is helping stick a lot of this hate, 436 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 9: keep people angry, keep people in these echo chambers, and 437 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 9: so right now it seems very very difficult until things 438 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 9: get resolved in the Middle East. 439 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 5: Bloomberg's aim in Farhat in London, Katti of Porzikanski in 440 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 5: New York, Jenny Chay in Paris, and Michael Cohen in 441 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 5: Cape Town. Thank you to you all. After we recorded 442 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 5: this conversation, three college students of Palestinian descent were shot 443 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 5: and seriously injured near the University of Vermont's campus in Burlington, 444 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 5: or Police said they have no additional information to suggest 445 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 5: a motive. They noted that two of the victims were 446 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 5: wearing traditional Palestinian scarves known as cafeas at the time 447 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 5: of the assault. I'm Stephen Carroll. Thank you for listening. 448 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 5: This is Bloomberg.