1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: M everybody. I'm Robert Evans, and this is Behind the Bastards, 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: the show where we tell you everything you don't know 3 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: about the very worst people in all of history. And 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: this was the highest energy introduction I've ever done. Sophie 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: is laughing at me over in the corner. I don't 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: understand why I thought it sounded pretty cool, fonds esque. 7 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: This is a show where I read a terrible story 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: about history, about someone bad, or someone's bad, or usually 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: a bunch of bad people doing bad things to a 10 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: guest who is coming in cold and today that very 11 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: cold guest is Katie Golden. Might be Katie coming in 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 1: Colden anyway. She's birds rights activists on Twitter, where she 13 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: advocates for birds even though as I understand that millennials 14 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: are saying birds aren't real, those are lies, Those are 15 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: communist lives, communists lies. She's also the host of another 16 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: podcast on This Stuff Network, Creature feature great podcast about 17 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 1: animals doing weird ass shit science and stuffy science. Step. Yeah, 18 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: we talked about animals and drugs. It's great to do drugs. 19 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: It is great to do drugs. Uh. Speaking of drugs 20 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 1: that are great to do today we're talking about insulin, 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: which is not a well, I mean, it's fun and 22 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 1: that if you need to take it, you die not 23 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: taking it, right, I think it's fun not to die. 24 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: It is fun not to die, relatively fun not to die. 25 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: Yet it was fun not to die of insulin shock 26 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: or diabetic comas and stuff. Not fun. So I'm just 27 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: going to get into it. On November seventeen, several parents 28 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: brought the ashes of their dead children to the doorstep 29 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: of the offices of Santa Fee, a pharmaceutical company that 30 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: produces insulin. Sanofie and other insulin producers like Eli Lily 31 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: have been steadily raising the prices of their insulin for years. 32 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: Because of this, insulin can cost as much as a 33 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a month for people without decent insurance. Oh 34 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: my god, that's I I can't imagine spending a thousand 35 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: dollars a month on anything of there than like rent, 36 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: I guess, but even even a pretty expensive town. So 37 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: you're essentially renting your own body, like you want to 38 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: keep living in your body. A thousand bucks rent, yeah, 39 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: get you a decent place like in Culver City. I 40 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: feel like when I lived in Culver my rent was 41 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: about thousand months. Yeah, so it's it's frustrating, right, it's 42 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: a little frist It's a little frustrating because clearly, I mean, 43 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: no country on Earth can afford something like single pair 44 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: of healthcare anywhere. It never be done. Um, and our 45 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: government needs its money for stuff like I did you 46 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: hear about when that hurricane hit the East coast the 47 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: military forgot to remove like eleven two and they all 48 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:44,839 Speaker 1: got destroyed. That was one point four billion dollars. Well, 49 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: they gotta could have bought a lot. They gotta put 50 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: another billion dollar coin in the f twenty seven vending machines. 51 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: The funniest thing is there's no vending machine. We can't 52 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: make the parts for them anymore, stop manufacturing any of 53 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: the things that they are placeable. So, oh good, but 54 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: we can't afford to help people with here. I'm sure 55 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: we'll find a way to dig deep into the earth 56 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: and find things that will destroy our planet that can 57 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: make new airplanes. Yeah, I'm sure we will. Now, people 58 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: with type one diabetes do not naturally produce insulin, which 59 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: is a magical substance that lets sugar not kill us 60 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: instead of be delicious. I'm a fan of insulin yeah, 61 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan. Now, when insulin costs as much, 62 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: if not more than rent, many people stopped taking it 63 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 1: as often as they should and ration their precious supply 64 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,239 Speaker 1: so that they can afford to do things like exist 65 00:03:32,320 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: in a capitalist society and pay the aforementioned rent that 66 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: we've been talking right. Also, um food, because here's the thing. 67 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: Here's the thing is like insulin is basically useless if 68 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: you don't eat, if right, because then you don't get 69 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: any sugar, which without insulin. You know, it's like, well, 70 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: I mean, Katie, I was really sympathetic with these people, 71 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: but I think you've identified a way that they could 72 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: not need insulin, which is the no eat diet. And 73 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: you won't of insulent shock. You'll just die of starvation. 74 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: I do think they'll die. Oh yeah, you're right, probably 75 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: medically speaking. Yesterday, Well, neither of us are doctors. No, 76 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: you're not a doctor. No, I'm not a doctor. Fantastic, 77 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: but I do read web and b like a lot. Well, 78 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: then you're basically a doctor, fantastic now. Alec Rashawn Smith 79 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,279 Speaker 1: was one of the young people who got caught in 80 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: this deadly dance with a necessary drug. When he was 81 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: twenty six, he aged out of his mother's health insurance. 82 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: One month after his birthday, he died of diabetic shock. 83 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: Smith's mom, Nicole, was one of the grieving parents who 84 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: brought her son's ashes to Santa Fee that November day. 85 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: She told the Boston Globe she wanted the company to quote, no, 86 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: the price of their product is killing people when it's 87 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: intended to save lives. Antoinette Worsham, whose twenty two year 88 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: old daughter Antavia died last year while rationing insulin, told 89 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: another interviewer that for people like her daughter, it's either 90 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: pay your rent, pay your car payment, or get your medication. 91 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: Diabetes is currently the seventh leading cause of death in 92 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: the United States. I heard this story of this guy 93 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: who because like I've heard this thing where people say, well, 94 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: just go fund me if you can't afford your medication 95 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: instead of healthcare. Yeah, there was a guy who did 96 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: that very thing and he short, yeah, fifty dollars short 97 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: of reaching his goal in the way. It was his 98 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 1: monthly calls, right, and he needed insulin to survive, and 99 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: he didn't have the money to pay for it, and 100 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: he was like taking care of his ailing mom too. 101 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: So that's part of the reason. He didn't have that 102 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 1: high of an income, so like he tried to get it. 103 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: He was fifty dollar short of reaching his goal. So 104 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: you know how go fund me works. Then you get 105 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: none of that money and he died. Yeah he should. 106 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: We will be talking about him a little bit later. 107 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: Oh good. So clearly this situation is fucked right that 108 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: it seems fun. Seems like we can all get on 109 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: the same page. There, it's like a little like just 110 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: maybe a smidge fun the old F bomb. Yeah, so 111 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: what is fun? Why is this so messed up? People 112 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: are dying? Well, I'm saying that that's why it's messed up, 113 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: Like why why would because insulin is not a new drug. Usually, 114 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 1: when you've got like a case of this where something 115 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: is incredibly expensive, it's number one, a drug that very 116 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 1: few people need, and number two a drug that's really new. 117 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: Because then you know, that's the way that these patents work. 118 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 1: For most medicines, After about twenty years after their invention, 119 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: a generic patent comes out that's fairly affordable, right, right, 120 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: That's one of the ways our system is supposed to work, 121 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: so that that keeps drugs affordable for normal people, but 122 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: also gives an incentive for companies to invest in research 123 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: and whatnot. Right, that is the promise in our capitalist 124 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: system is that you will get better medicine under this system, 125 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: because companies will find new medicines, you know, essentially due 126 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: to the profit motive, but because of the way that 127 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: this generic drug like that. That's the idea, Right, that's 128 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 1: the promise that we've all bought in this system. Otherwise 129 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: poor people are middle class people would never be able 130 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: to afford medicine exactly. Insulin has existed for nearly a century, 131 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: but there is no cheap generic insulin available in the 132 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: United States today. We're going to talk talk about why. 133 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: But first we are going to talk about the invention 134 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: of insulin as a medicine. Most cursory coverage of this 135 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: will give credit to Dr Frederick Banting, some mention a 136 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: small team of scientists who work with him. When I 137 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: decided to look into it this story, it's because I 138 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: ran across a tweet about Banting. It stated that he 139 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: had given the invention of medical insulin to the world, 140 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 1: put it in the public domain, essentially as a gift 141 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: to humanity, because he didn't want to profit off and 142 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: he wanted people to be able to get medicine, and 143 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: so the tweet was basically like this wonderful founder gave 144 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: insulin to the world and wanted people to have it 145 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: for free, and then the evil pharmaceutical companies fucked it up, 146 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: which is true, but not detailed enough. So I wanted 147 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: to know what that story was. Let's get the details. 148 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: So let's get the diets. That's what we are going 149 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: to be talking about today. Now, like most things you 150 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: find on social media, that version of events is not 151 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: quite accurate. Insulin did not have a single inventor, and 152 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: while pharmaceutical companies are the ultimate bastards here, the full 153 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: story is weirder, sadder, and more infuriating than that. In 154 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: Dr Frederick Banting was the first person to isolate secretions 155 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: from isolate cells, the cells that make insulin. He suggested 156 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: these might hold a treat for diabetes, and he was 157 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: basically right. He came up with a plan to tie 158 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 1: up the pancreatic ducts of laboratory dogs and make their 159 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:11,119 Speaker 1: pancreases overproduce the cells that contain insulin until everything else 160 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 1: in the pancreas dies. That was the idea, right, we 161 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: did dogs die. The hope was they wouldn't. This is 162 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: actually initially envision is like its beautiful one to punch 163 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: because we make these dogs pancreases overproduced the cells. They 164 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: didn't really know. Insulin was like insulin was a theoretical 165 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: substance they called, I think insuline. There was an e. 166 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: I don't know how they pronounced it, but it was 167 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: spelled insuline. And the theory was like, if we make 168 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: these dogs pancreases produce a bunch of these cells, we 169 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: can take the pancreases out and they will contain concentrated 170 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 1: versions that then we can extract whatever in the pancreas 171 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 1: shoot it into a diabetic It will make them better. 172 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 1: So the idea was, we gotta take these dogs pancreases 173 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: out in order to do this thing, but then we 174 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: can just give them what we make from it, and 175 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: if it works, it's a beautiful one too. Thing we 176 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: don't have to kill the dogs will know that we've 177 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,599 Speaker 1: got a treatment for diabetes because these dogs won't be 178 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 1: able to pre sinsulin. After we stuck up their pancreases. 179 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: Seemed like it was like a nice circle that they 180 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: had that they had developed um Now, the problem with 181 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: Banting's plan is that he was not up to date 182 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,760 Speaker 1: on the work other scientists were doing testing blood sugar 183 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: to find diabetes and patients Banting did urine testing to 184 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,079 Speaker 1: find out blood sugar levels, which is not just did 185 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: you just like taste it, because I know I just 186 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: tasting their well, one of the one of the things 187 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: is like, um, if you taste your urine or smell 188 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: your urine, it tastes sweet. It's a sign of diabetes 189 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: because it's like I think it's called hyperkalemia, and it's 190 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: because you're finding more sugars in your urine. You know, 191 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,199 Speaker 1: I've only drank my pea once. Uh for my book 192 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: A Brief History advice, because I was I was trying 193 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: an ancient Meso American treatment where you mix tobacco, garlic 194 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: and urine as a treatment for constipation. It works, it 195 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: makes you very ill, but functions and its intended purpose. 196 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: I was not paying attention to how sweet it was. 197 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 1: There was a lot of garlic in there too, right, 198 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: The garlic is well, the garlic is going to cut 199 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 1: the sweetness as it's cooking. You know it's gonna But 200 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: it sounds like what you're saying is that we should 201 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: all be drinking r P every morning to learn if 202 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: we are just a little bit a little bit. Just 203 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:14,439 Speaker 1: don't drink a lot of don't drink a lot of 204 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: your taste a sample. That's the new behind the bastard's motto. 205 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: Sample your own, sample your P, sample your P. Right, 206 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: this will be marketable. Let's get a T shirt going, 207 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: sample pie. Start that process. Okay, So if he's shaking 208 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: her head, she's not happy with that. All right, let's 209 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: move on to talking about diabetes some more. So. Banny 210 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: was the first guy to start isolating the slate cells 211 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: that contain the hormone insulin, but the amounts he was 212 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: able to get were too small to really be useful 213 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: in his His work had a bunch of holes in it. 214 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: You know, he was good at a couple of things, 215 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: but he was almost taking a lot of other areas. 216 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: So we had to partner with other scientists. Professor John 217 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: James Rickard McLeod was the head of physiology at the 218 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 1: University of Toronto. McLeod agreed to give him laboratory space 219 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: for his experiments, and he also served as sort of 220 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: the manager in over. So you're for the whole project 221 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: because Banting was an unstable personality of an asshole. So McLeod, 222 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: you means some scientists are assholes. Yes, really, the kind 223 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: of guy who would who would poison the dog's pancreas 224 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: in order to try to solve it as ease isn't 225 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: great at working with other people. Interesting, I mean er intuitive, 226 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: but you know you need to do the research. This 227 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: horrible thing has to happen. But the kind of guy 228 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: who's like, oh, yeah, what if we just toward your 229 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: dogs to figure this out, it's probably not fun to 230 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: work with. And he wasn't maybe just a little too. 231 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: He's got tunnel vision there. He's just so focused on 232 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: that insulin. Everyone else is like, but dogs, there's just 233 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: dead dogs everywhere. I know. I'm almost corpses, just crumpled 234 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: up dog. We get it right, the dogs won't die. 235 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: He's just at his desk and he's like, damn it, 236 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: and he crinkles up another dog and tossed it. Just 237 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: the trash can full of dead dogs. Sophie is really 238 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: not loving this conversation. There is a dog in the room, 239 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: but because Anderson is a dog, does not understand what 240 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: we're talking about which is the mercy of being a dog. 241 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: Now back to the story. Banting came to hate McLeod 242 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: because McLeod was good at talking and explaining their work 243 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: to other people at conventions. Uh well, Banting was an 244 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: introvert and a big old nerd. So Banting started to 245 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: worry that like McLeod was going to outshine him and 246 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 1: get credit, even though remything I've been able to read, 247 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: McLeod was just about, oh, yeah, this is a really 248 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: important cause. I want to do everything I can do 249 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 1: to make sure that this research gets completely He goes 250 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: like on Reddit to complain about him, like what a 251 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: stupid science child, Banting? Would a thousand percent be a 252 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: Reddit dude? Although we'll get to yeah a second. So 253 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: Banting had an assistant, a guy named Charles Herbert Best, 254 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: who did Charles Charles though I thought this is a 255 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: fancy form of you know, Charles Charlie char No, No, 256 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: not at all, plain old Charles like an American reading 257 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: podcast for three hours. So Charles Herbert Best was his assistant, 258 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: and Best did a lot of crucial work in the process. 259 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: And it seems fair to say in general that all 260 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: three men were critical parts of the development of insulin 261 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 1: as an effective medication. When they started their work, the 262 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: existence of insulin was still not a confirmed fact. We 263 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: knew that the islets of linger Hends, which is the 264 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: name of those little cells, produced something that helped regulate sugar. 265 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: Insulin was at this point still just the name of 266 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: a hypothetical substance scientist thought existed. So just as a 267 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: quick side note, the islets of Lingerham, imagine them as 268 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: like these little islands, that little British islands microbial size. 269 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: Langerham expedition goes out and discovers like little white blood 270 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: cells and naval hats. Sorry that I just had to 271 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,719 Speaker 1: get that image, Duke. Yeah, you're right, that's yeah, that's 272 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: how it was discovered. Tiny tiny explorers, tiny explorers. Banting, 273 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: McLeod and Best started work in May nine. It did 274 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 1: not go well at first. I found an article in 275 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: the Journal of Clinical Chemistry that went into the discovery 276 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: of insulin in exhausting detail. Here's how they described the 277 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: few months of work. After legation of the ducts, the 278 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 1: dogs were expected to recover from the surgery and live 279 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,719 Speaker 1: more or less normally. After several weeks, the pancreas and 280 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: able to secrete fluid into the duadendum would gradually atrophy 281 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 1: and would be removed in process to extract the internal secretion. 282 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: The extract would then be administered to other dogs made 283 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: diabetic by removal of the pancreas. It was a laborious 284 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: task for someone with no experience and animal work, and 285 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: it did not go well at first his Banting struggle 286 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: to improve his surgical technique. By the end of the 287 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: second week, seven of their tin dogs had died. To 288 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: resupply the animal cages, they resorted to buying dogs in 289 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: the streets of Toronto. The three dollars with no questions asked, 290 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 1: we need dogs, We need a lot of dogs. It's 291 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: just some guy with an overcoat, Like, hey, I heard 292 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: you was looking for dogs. This doctors never worked on dogs. 293 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 1: He's killing the left and right. It's just like opening 294 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: up the trench coat and I'll give you nine dollars. 295 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: Is that enough for three dogs? They're like off brand dogs, 296 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: Like no, no, these are dogs. Three of these are cats. 297 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: Sophie really not happy with me right now. We should 298 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: be good. We should be good. Sorry, we had to 299 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 1: deal with some noise. We also learned something that I'm 300 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: just coming into which is that the guy have been 301 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: calling McLeod is is McLeod So everybody have a good 302 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: real mcclaude, aren't you. Everybody have a good laugh, good 303 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: old laugh at old old Robert Evans's expense not knowing 304 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: enough about scotsman. Uh so, Um, you may have already 305 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: noticed that this is horrible because dogs are good, and 306 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: medically torturing them to death is bad. But the world 307 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: is a gigantic wheel of pain and brutal crush and cruelty, 308 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: and sometimes is sometimes necessary in order to save the 309 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: lives of billions of diabetics. Uh so, yeah, that's just 310 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 1: the way the world works. Sometimes dogs continue to diet 311 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: rapid rates throughout the research, but Banting and Best were 312 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: eventually successful in creating an extract that seemed to work 313 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: at regulating the blood sugar of dogs who'd had their 314 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: appendix is removed. They debuted their work to an audience. 315 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: It was one of those things you've seen on TV 316 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 1: where the doctors do their work in like a big 317 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,320 Speaker 1: pit surrounded by an auditorium full of other doctors and 318 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: pharmaceutical industry people. Old timey thanks they had like they 319 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: had instead of bags of popcorn was like bags dead dogs, 320 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: bags of dead dogs, and those little circle things on 321 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: their heads that old timey doctors wore. One man present 322 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: at this early insulin demo was George H. A. Cloud's, 323 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: a research director for Eli Lily, the pharmaceutical company. After 324 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: the presentation, he sidled up to McLoud and asked if 325 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: his company could work with the scientists in order to 326 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 1: get a product on the market sooner. McLeod turned him down, 327 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: claiming that the work was not far enough along yet. 328 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: This seems to have pissed Banting off, largely because McLoud 329 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: had spoken for the group. Banting was also frustrated by 330 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: the fact that McLoud was a much better presenter than 331 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: he was, which made Banting worry that other scientists would 332 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: get the credit and popular acclaim Banting felt he deserved. 333 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: So like Banting is like watching as McLeod is like 334 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: riding in on a skateboard and like hey dudes, and 335 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: like like he's just like curing and he's too nervous 336 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: to talk to anyone, so we can't answer the questions 337 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: which McLeod can. But then he's like he's taking credit 338 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: for me. He's getting shoved in science lockers. He totally 339 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: would be an in cell. I'm calling it now. The 340 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: inventor of insulin is an in cell. Yeah, yeah, perfect 341 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: involuntary cellular biologist. Nice, nice, nice, really good. Uh So 342 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: it took a lot more work and a lot more 343 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: dead dogs before Banting and his team made more progress 344 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: on insulin. By nine two, they were close to a breakthrough, 345 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: and Banting decided that McLeod was the center of a 346 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: gigantic conspiracy to steal the credit for their immediate breakthrough. 347 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: Banting and his team started to work with another scientist 348 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: named colep Colip had figured out how to actually purify 349 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 1: the pancreatic extracts that they were making and create usable insulin. 350 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: In January of n the group carried out a clinical 351 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,160 Speaker 1: test of their new extract that failed disastrously. The bad 352 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: results sparked a fight, and during a heated exchange, Colip 353 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: threatened to leave the band and take his purification method 354 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 1: with him. He threatened to patent it's that they'd have 355 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: to pay him to use it. So was Eli only 356 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: the yoko oh no of the situation or they were 357 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: just sparking a fight, Yes, but they didn't They hadn't 358 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: done anything yet. Calyp was kind of the well, no 359 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: Banting was, the Banting was the Yoko was both Yoko 360 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: and Lennon Ouch. That's a that's a harsh personality to have. 361 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: He seems like a rough guy to work with. So 362 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: uh yeah. Here's a quote from that journal article about 363 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: the invention of insulin. This was a breach of the 364 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,919 Speaker 1: agreement between Calyp, Banting, and Best to exchange all results. 365 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: Banting never showed a righteous anger or noted for meekness 366 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: or restraint. When he felt wronged, exploded with clinched fists, 367 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: and in a moment Calyp was laying dazed on the 368 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: floor of the laboratory. Fortunately he was not seriously hurt. 369 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 1: There are no contemporary records of this encounter, no reference 370 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: by Colip, and only two accounts, neither of which, according 371 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: to Bliss, should be considered entirely reliable. One was by 372 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: Banting and his unpublished nineteen forty memoir, the other by 373 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: Best in a letter to Sir Henry Dale dated February 374 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 1: twenty nine. So he like beat him with his fists, 375 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: but he didn't hurt him at all. He beat him 376 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 1: with his fist and I think it probably hurt pretty bad, 377 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: but calyp was too felt bashful about it and didn't 378 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: write about it. Banting is the only one who wrote 379 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,920 Speaker 1: about it, because I'm thinking maybe his fists were like 380 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: soft and small as apricots, and it's just like that, 381 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: like I solved as small as acot oh apricot apricot 382 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: handed Banting. That's it's possible too. It's possibly just sucked 383 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: it punching right, But either way, I just liked this 384 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: story of like these genius scientists creating one of the 385 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: most valuable medicines in history, fist fighting each other over 386 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: the credit at one point. It's beautiful. Now, the four 387 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 1: scientists did eventually work out their disagreements enough to allow 388 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: them to get back to work. Banting and Best would 389 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: de pancreatized dogs, Colip wouldn't extract insulin, and McCloud would 390 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: coordinate everyone's research, everybody doing playing to their strengths, play 391 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: into their strength, like you're great at deep pancretize deep pancretizing. 392 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: Is that he was the best to pancretizer. Nobody's questioning 393 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: Banting's ability to take out dogs. You can PANCRETI tin 394 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,119 Speaker 1: pancreas as a per minute. If you're if you've had 395 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: a dog with too many pancreai, this is your man. 396 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: He's got ten ppm. So um. Banting developed a hatred 397 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,080 Speaker 1: for the professor that made his life unbearable. Banting became 398 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: an alcoholic, regularly drinking himself to sleep. Since it was prohibition, 399 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,360 Speaker 1: he had to steal liquor hundred and ninety proof alcohol 400 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: from the laboratory. He later said, I do not think 401 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: there was one night during the month of March nineteen 402 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: two when I went to bed sober. Well, that seems 403 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,680 Speaker 1: like a not great practice. It just seems like March. 404 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: I mean, March is my birthday months, so I rarely 405 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: go to bed sober on March. And he says he 406 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: was making life like unbearable for the other scientists. Was 407 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: he like playing drunken pranks on them? Like, no, he's 408 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: just being a really angry as I throwing dogs at 409 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: the crossing dog corpses left and right. You sons of bitches. Yeah, 410 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: but their work bore fruit. On May third, Cloud presented 411 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 1: a paper to the Association of American Physicians The Effect 412 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: produced on diabetes by extracts of pancreas the paper described 413 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: their discovery of insulin and it's by now clear therapeutic 414 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: success on treating diabetes. The Cloud received a standing ovation, 415 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: the first one given in the entire history of the 416 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: society's existence. Banting and Best weren't there to see it. 417 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: Banting had refused to go because he's a caddy bitch 418 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: and badgered his colleague and not going as well as 419 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: a protest against McCleod. Yeah, it's it's pretty missed. That 420 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 1: rare scientist standing ovation, which are radical because they're just 421 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: like air horns. Belas so uh. At this point, via 422 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: the team reached out to Elit Lily for help figuring 423 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,959 Speaker 1: out how to produce insulin in large quantities. So they 424 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: figured out how to extract insulin, they could prove that 425 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: it was a thing that had a therapeutic effect, but 426 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: they were like, we don't actually know how to like 427 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: produce a medicine for a shipload of people were just 428 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: torturing dogs over here. Although at some point there's a 429 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: horrible note in the story. I was reading it like 430 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 1: they were using cows at one point and they needed 431 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 1: like the fetuses of young cows to get the pancreases out, 432 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: and they were like, thankfully, lots of slaughterhouses get the 433 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: cows pregnant before they kill them to make them fatter. 434 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: So there's tons of cow fetuses. Well, isn't that nice 435 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 1: worked out? We're swimming in cow fetuses who are eyeballs 436 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: and cow fetuses. Three dollar dogs. They just have cow 437 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: fetuses in the bullet like the front desk of these farms, 438 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 1: like take a cow, cow fetus, too many cow fetus. 439 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: Fetus just going to be going into sausage. It is sausages. 440 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: It's just cow fetuses and pig assholes. That does seem 441 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: like a like turn of the century movie like Too 442 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: Many Cow Too Many cow fetuses, starring Jamis and Jimson 443 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 1: speaking of cow fetuses. Uh, wonderful products that help people. 444 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: It's ADS time. We're back. We're back. ADS are done. 445 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: As has happened? ADS has happened back to insulin banting. 446 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: Call Up and Best were awarded a patent on January three. 447 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: They did not give their patent to the public domain 448 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: as a gift demand kind, but they did sell it 449 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: for a dollar each to the Board of Governors of 450 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: the University of Toronto. Their goal bargain. That's bargain, great 451 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: price for all of insulin solid. Their goal was for 452 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: the medicine itself to be used for the benefit of 453 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: mankind and not pure profit. They deserve credit for getting 454 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: all all getting on the same page about one thing, 455 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: which is that insulin is too vital to be something 456 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: that's purely a profit thing right now. They basically gave 457 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: the patent to the university so they could restrict the 458 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: production of insulin to reputable pharmaceutical companies. They wanted to 459 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 1: stop quacks from trying to make their own products and 460 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: then selling people poison Brandon as right, just like liquefied dog. Yeah, 461 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: we're just killing out. The pan also made it impossible 462 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,119 Speaker 1: for drug companies to produce a weaker version of the 463 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: drug and still use the name insulin, So that's good. 464 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,239 Speaker 1: As messy as they were, it does seem like these 465 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: guys Hearts were in the right place. Eli Lily got 466 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,400 Speaker 1: a non exclusive licensing contract and for a while insulin 467 00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: was a reasonably affordable medicine. After a couple of decades, 468 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: the University Toronto's patent expired and any pharmaceutical company was 469 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: allowed to produce it. This is the point at which 470 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: the market should have been flooded with cheap generic versions 471 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: of insulin, but something else happened instead, Eli, Lily and 472 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: other pharmaceutical companies started tweaking insulin, making minor improvements or 473 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: alteration through the delivery system, tiny changes that maybe maybe 474 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: it work slightly better here and there. Uh the time, 475 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,080 Speaker 1: these updates strategically so that insulin has remained for all 476 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 1: these different companies a patented medication from right today right 477 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: Because so I used to do medical learning materials for 478 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies, and one of the things I learned is 479 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: about the process of doing generic medications. So, if you 480 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 1: have a patent and you want to extend it beyond 481 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: what the law intake, right, what you do is you 482 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,440 Speaker 1: can tweak it very slightly, make like you said, minor improvements, 483 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: or you can even not tweak it, but say it's 484 00:24:54,200 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: useful for something else like um like antidepressant medication and 485 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: being used for postpartum depression or PMS. Well that's clearly different, right, 486 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: And then then you can cling on to that patent 487 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: long for a much longer than what is the spirit 488 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: of the law, which is right right, which is a 489 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 1: long time too. So it's and that prevents other companies 490 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: from creating biosimilars which are like, not the exact same formulation, 491 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 1: but kind of a similar one. And it's really terrible 492 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: because it can well, let's continue with your horrible story. Now, 493 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 1: it's not impossible. It's some point to say. One of 494 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: the differences with the case of insulin is that it's 495 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: not impossible for a company to go back to the 496 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 1: original recipe and make a generic version of insulin. That 497 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 1: is something that's totally possible. To what these companies are 498 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 1: doing is that they're just never releasing a generic. They 499 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: just keep tweaking their insulin. Every time it comes up. 500 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: It gets old enough. So basically, any pharmaceutical company could 501 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: try to make their own insulin, but any organization that 502 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: could afford to do so would be a pharmaceutical money 503 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: And in that case, why not just whip up their 504 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,400 Speaker 1: own kind of insulin? Twigg a little bit, the charge 505 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 1: a lot of money. Why make a generic? Why help people? 506 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: Why help people? As a pharmaceutical Now, this is the 507 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: conclusion reached by doctors Jeremy Green and Kevin Riggs, who 508 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: published a study in the New England Journal of Medicine 509 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: accusing the pharmaceutical industry of using a process called evergreening 510 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: to extend their patents, particularly the patents. For instance, this 511 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: is the name of what you were just explaining. I'd 512 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,359 Speaker 1: like to quote from a summary of their article in 513 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: Medicine Express. This keeps older versions off the generic market, 514 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: the authors say, because generic manufacturers have less incentive to 515 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: make a version of insulin that doctors perceived as obsolete. 516 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: Newer versions are somewhat better for patients who can afford them, 517 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: say the authors, but those who can't suffer painful, costly complications. 518 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,919 Speaker 1: We see generic drugs as a rare success story, providing 519 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: better quality at a cheaper price, says Green, an associate 520 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: professor of the history of medicine at Johns Hopkins University 521 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: School of Medicine and a practicing internist. And we see 522 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: the progression from patent to drug to generic drug is 523 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: almost automatic. But the history of insulin highlights limits of 524 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: generic competition. Is a framework for protecting the public health now. 525 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: Riggs and Green were both inspired to study this problem 526 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,360 Speaker 1: because so many patients were coming into their Baltimore area 527 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: clinics with blurred vision, weight loss, thirst, and other symptoms 528 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: of unmedicated diabetes. They realized that a ton of people 529 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: who should have been on insulin were opting to suffer 530 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: instead of go broke. Green and Riggs set out to 531 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 1: learn why generic insulin wasn't a thing, and they traced 532 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,920 Speaker 1: out a legacy of evergreening. In the nineteen thirties and forties, 533 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies developed long acting forms that allowed most patients 534 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,959 Speaker 1: to take a single daily injection. In the nineteen seventies 535 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: and eighties, manufacturers improved the purity of cow and pig 536 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: extracted insulin. Since then, several companies who developed synthetic analogs 537 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: biotech insulin is now the standard in the US. The 538 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: authors say patents on the first synthetic insulin expired in 539 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: two thousand and fourteen, but these newer forms are harder 540 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: to copy, so the unpatented versions will go through a 541 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,239 Speaker 1: lengthy Food and Drug Administration approval process and cost more 542 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: to make. When these insulins come off the market, they 543 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: may cost just less than the patented versions. Riggs and 544 00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: Green right now, generic versions of medication often bring the 545 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 1: price down to something like cheaper, so when cheaper insulin 546 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: comes in, it's going to be this kind of biotech 547 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: insulin that's just cheaper as opposed to so essentially still 548 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: twice as much as at least so like, so companies 549 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: could be making these generics, but there's just no monetary 550 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: incentive for them, so it's not profitable, right right, I 551 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 1: mean you might get a profit, is not as profit 552 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: right because if you're a small enough company that you 553 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: would want to maybe do it, like, then you couldn't. 554 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 1: You don't have the resources. You don't have the resources. 555 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: So if you're a bigger company, you're like, well, there's 556 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: more demand than would mean, like people wouldn't be voting 557 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: with their wallets, so they'll still sell it. Yeah, and uh, 558 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: you know, insulin has improved a lot over the years, 559 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: you know, to give some credit to the pharmaceutical companies. 560 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: We no longer have to torture dogs to make it. 561 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: It's not all derived from animals anymore. Human insulin can 562 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: be produced using recompetent DNA technology that basically turns bacteria 563 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: and insulin factories. It's pretty cool. The they deserve to 564 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: be rewarded for the innovations, or at least the scientists 565 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: do for the innovations that have been made to insulin. UM. 566 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 1: But with each innovation, essentially older but still working forms 567 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: of insulin UH stop being used as opposed to just 568 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: being sold as generics because it's not profitable to run them. 569 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: I read a Business Insider article on exactly this problem. 570 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: It notes that the number of Americans with diabetes has 571 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: tripled since nineteen eighty. You might expect that to make 572 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: insulin cheaper, since it's now easier to make and being 573 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: produced on an economy of scale. Instead, the prices sword astronomically. 574 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: Some insulin products have seen their price triple since two 575 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: thousand two. Yeah. Levi Mere, one popular medication made by 576 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: Novo Nordisk, cost a hundred and twenty dollars for a 577 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: hundred units two twelve. Today, the same amount costs three 578 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: hundred dollars. Now, as we know, a generic versions of 579 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 1: medication often helpfully, you could buy so many dogs with that. 580 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: You could you could buy three dollar dogs even, yeah, 581 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: even a three dollar dog, which is an expensive dog. 582 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: In the insulin, you could buy a hundred your own 583 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. Now, as we noted earlier, generic versions of 584 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: medication can lower the price by as much as eight percent. 585 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: This would be life changing for someone with diabetes. Struggling 586 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: to deal with an extra five hundred and seventy dollars 587 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: a month insulin bills. That's what the average diabetic American 588 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,480 Speaker 1: past Jesus Christ. So you're talking four hundred bucks that 589 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: could be back on the can be spent on dogs, 590 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: could be spent on dogs, or maybe food and your 591 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: or maybe food and rent. But yeah, there is no 592 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: generic insulin, and Riggs and Green suspect that this is 593 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: because no pharmaceutical company considers making such a product to 594 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: be a worthwhile investment. On February two thousand seventeen, Shane 595 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: Patrick Boyle posted a go fund Me to raise enough 596 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: money from one month of Inceland. For him. This meant 597 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: seven hundred and fifty dollars. As we already discussed, he 598 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: came up fifty dollars short, and he died a couple 599 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: of weeks later of diabetic keto acidosis. The current Secretary 600 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: of Health and Human Services, appointed by Donald Trump and 601 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: confirmed by Congress is Alex Azar. Before he got into politics, 602 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: Mr Azar had a different job. He worked for Eli 603 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: Lily from two thousand seven to two thousand seventeen. Starting 604 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: in two twelve, he was the president of Lily USA. 605 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 1: The company's largest division. I'd like to quote from an 606 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: article in the Nation. During Azar's tenure, Eli Lily raised 607 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: the prices on its insulence in the United States by 608 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: twenty point eight percent in two thousand fourteen, sixteen point 609 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: nine percent in two thousand fifteen, and seven point five 610 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: percent in two thousand and sixteen. Eli Lily's biggest seller, 611 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 1: humal log insulin, is now off patent, but rather than 612 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: becoming cheaper, Human Logue costs more now than when it 613 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: first came to market in nineteen ninety six. When Azar 614 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: started working at Eli Lily in June two thousand seven, 615 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: the list price for a vile of human Logue was 616 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: seventy four dollars. When he quit in January two thousand seventeen, 617 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: it was two hundred and sixty mine. So have they 618 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: made changes to human Logue. It's just they're just jacking 619 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: the price. Oh my god, It's like that's shouldn't that 620 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: be sort of like I'm murder I mean, the Health 621 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 1: and Human Service as secretary did it, So how could 622 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: it be that? Well, you know how people get so 623 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: worked up when they see stores jack up the prices 624 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: of water before disaster. This is like that every day, 625 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: every single year for twenty years, and then you become 626 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: a secretary at about Oh that is really depressing. It's horrible. Yeah, 627 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: oh that was That was a very sudden right into 628 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,959 Speaker 1: the wall in there. No, I mean, there's not much 629 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: to say. I read the story about those parents bringing 630 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: their dead kids ashes to a pharmaceutical company and read 631 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: about it, and it's fucked up. That is so terrible 632 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: heavy I mean alex asar and everyone else involved in 633 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: these companies and changing the prices of them as a 634 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,480 Speaker 1: piece of ship. Because I mean, so one thing is 635 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: to be clear about diabetes. There are two types. So 636 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:53,680 Speaker 1: there's childhood diabetes where there's no lifestyle. Yeah, Type one, 637 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: they're born with it. You just random chance. Should he 638 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: spend that big roulette wheel mother nature just dick and around. 639 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: But I mean that's not to say people type two 640 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,719 Speaker 1: deserve it or anything like that, because like I mean, 641 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: it's such an irony where we have such little restrictions 642 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: on all these foods that are high in sugar and 643 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: killing us with you know, just creating these high incidents 644 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: of diabetes, and then the medicine that can save your 645 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: life is also just the price is jacked of Jesus Christ. 646 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: That is, if that isn't an indictment of our society. 647 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it's pretty pretty horrible and gross. Yeah. 648 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: So if you're diabetic, so are you're dealing with this? 649 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: If you happen to know where alex Asar's car is. 650 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: I'm not going to say, commit a crime on alex 651 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: Asar's car, but maybe do crimes? Do crimes? Not? Maybe 652 00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: I'm just do crist generally, do cry generally do crimes? 653 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 1: I mean my goal is to train a flock of 654 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,880 Speaker 1: birds to follow them around and give those birds a 655 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: really healthy but very high in fiber diet and just 656 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: have them follow car a lot of a lot of 657 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: like wheat husks, yeah, chia seeds. If you train birds 658 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: and live in the d C area, we have a 659 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: gig for you. We got a job. Listen, well, crowd 660 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: fund this like we would crowd fund someone's insulin payment. Yeah. 661 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: And if we fall fifty short, though, we won't die. 662 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: We won't die. His car will just not be filthy. 663 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: Shirt will not be shipped on if you train birds 664 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: in d C. Right, if you drop a line, if 665 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: you practice falconry in the DC area, the greater metropolitan 666 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,080 Speaker 1: DC area. You know D M. Robert or if you're Oswald, Tomilkins, 667 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: the greatest car here in the East Coast. Everybody knows Oswald. Yeah, absolutely, 668 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: he's fantastic. Maybe key this guy's car, you know, to 669 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: do it the I don't know, maybe key. In an 670 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 1: image of an urn with a dead twenty seven year 671 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: old diabetic dashes in it. It's so heavy because it's 672 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 1: one of these things where we freaking found the cure 673 00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: to this. We found shouldn't be a problem. It shouldn't 674 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: be a problem. You know. We talk about things like 675 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,839 Speaker 1: how terrible cancer is and how we crave a cure 676 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 1: so much, and of course we do, because cancer is awful. 677 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: But then we have a freaking cure for diabetes that 678 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: will keep people from dying, from imminently dying, and just 679 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 1: to dangle it above them like, oh, oh you want 680 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: this cure, Oh, try and get it. Oh, and the 681 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,440 Speaker 1: people dangling and are only using one hand because they're 682 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: getting paid tens of millions of dollars and bonuses for 683 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:51,400 Speaker 1: doing the dangling. What a great system, I know, super 684 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: gonna last forever and not collapse in fire and death. Yet, like, 685 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: you know, does it feel good when you get your 686 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: like second luxury. Yah, like you might as well just 687 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: why not skip all of the middleman stuff and just 688 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,720 Speaker 1: make it out of dead diabet Just make a giant 689 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,240 Speaker 1: bone yacht made out of the bones of dead diabetic people. 690 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: If Alex Asar was sailing up to Kinnebunkport, Maine in 691 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: a bone yacht, well, okay, he's terrible, but like, this 692 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: guy at least has some pane, at least he's forth right. Yeah, 693 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,600 Speaker 1: he's honestly a bone merchant. Cut the metaphor. Hubbard would 694 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: have built a boat out of bones. Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, 695 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: either build a bone boat or I'm gonna keep telling 696 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: people to key your car, Alex has aer. That's my 697 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 1: threat to the Secretary of Human Services. We will train 698 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: a flock of birds. Train a flock of birds to 699 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:47,720 Speaker 1: ship on your car. Constant flow stream of ship flowing 700 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 1: as much as insulin should be flowing patients. The bird 701 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: ship will flow like insulin until the insulin gets cheaper. 702 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 1: That is the terroristic threat we are making on this episode. 703 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,360 Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards. Great cool. I'm glad you put a 704 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: label to it so it'll really make dhs. Uh. You's 705 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 1: gonna make it easy for those yes for their search 706 00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: engine to go like, oh, there we go. I'm gonna 707 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: get an interview like like how many birds are in 708 00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,160 Speaker 1: your birds? You have? What kind? Let me see your 709 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 1: keys because there was their paint on them. Katie, you 710 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 1: got any plug plug? Well, of course, my show Creature 711 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 1: feature where we talk about creatures who are more human 712 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 1: like than you expect in humans who act in animal ways, 713 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: like the freaking barbaric animals who deny people insulin. Well, actually, 714 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 1: animals would never do anything that sucked up. No, they wouldn't. 715 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: I mean, animals do some fucked up things, like they'll 716 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,960 Speaker 1: mind control of spiders into weaving them a little nest 717 00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: and then killing them and get behind right right, there's 718 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: something like metal about that. There's there's nothing cool about 719 00:37:55,719 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: just depriving people of insulin. Uh And So you can 720 00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: follow me at Katie Golden on Twitter. You can follow 721 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: my bird twitter at pro Burg writes uh and, Yeah, 722 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,320 Speaker 1: please do check out my show. There's a great episode 723 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: with Robert Innett called uh Re for Madness for Madness. 724 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 1: There we go from the name of that movie, Yeah 725 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 1: for madness, madness All rightert Evans. This has been behind 726 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: the Bastards. You can find me on Twitter at I right, okay. 727 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram and uh twitter at 728 00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,640 Speaker 1: at bastards pod. You can find us online with all 729 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: the sources for this article at behind the Bastards dot com. 730 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: We have a t shirt shop. You can buy cups there, mugs, 731 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: phone raps, and stuff with cool logos made up and 732 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: catch phrases and stuff from the show neat images. So 733 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: like taste your PA, sample your p that'll be coming 734 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: out soon, So go to t public, look up behind 735 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,919 Speaker 1: the Bastards public. Hello, maybe this week instead of buying 736 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: a shirt, donate some money to somebody's go fund me 737 00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:57,280 Speaker 1: if they're trying to buy Incelin or something they clearly 738 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,240 Speaker 1: need the help. Vote or vote. Hopefully you just voted. 739 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: There's no voting to do immediately. Well soon, keep voting, yeah, 740 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,440 Speaker 1: I keep voting constantly. Look out for your your diabetic 741 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:12,879 Speaker 1: friends because it's rough. Yeah, all right, I love about 742 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: three percent of you. H