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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight. From Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you.

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Speaker 2: Captain Paul Watson back with us, co founder of the

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Speaker 2: Greenpeace Foundation and the founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about that in the moment. Paul is currently

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Speaker 2: a director for the Sea Shepherd France where he is

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Speaker 2: right now, and the Sea Shepherd Brazil. He's a writer

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Speaker 2: of children's books as well poetry books, history books and

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Speaker 2: books on environment. His latest work is The Only Flag

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Speaker 2: Worth Flying. Captain Paul Watson back on Coast to Coast. Paul,

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Speaker 2: how are you doing out there?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Pretty good? Thank you.

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Speaker 2: You've been in France for a couple of years now, haven't.

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Speaker 3: You, yes, three years now, It's good.

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Speaker 2: How'd you get interested in the oceans? Well?

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Speaker 3: I was raised in a fishing village on the east

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Speaker 3: coast of Canada, so it's something I've spent my entire

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Speaker 3: life around. I ran off to see at seventeen to

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Speaker 3: join the Norwegian Merchant Marine and the Swedish Merchant Marine

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Speaker 3: and the Canadian Coastguard, and then I was a co

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Speaker 3: founder of green.

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Speaker 2: Peace good for you. Good for you. Defending the oceans

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Speaker 2: is admirable.

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Speaker 3: Is it difficult, Oh, it's extremely difficult. We have all

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Speaker 3: the rules and the regulations we need. The problem is

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Speaker 3: there's a complete lack of enforcement. For instance, last year

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Speaker 3: in July, the High Seas Treaty to Protect Biodversity beyond

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Speaker 3: national jurisdiction was ratified and it is law, but it's

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Speaker 3: a piece of paper without enforcement. So it's our job

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Speaker 3: to go out there and test it, get it into court,

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Speaker 3: set precedence, try and make it work.

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Speaker 2: Captain, you've been doing this for more than fifty years.

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Speaker 2: Have things changed since you started?

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Speaker 3: Oh? A lot of good things have happened. Then a

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Speaker 3: lot of bad things have happened. You know what, We

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Speaker 3: were able to shut down whaling in international waters. As

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Speaker 3: of twenty eighteen, no whaling has taken place in international waters.

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Speaker 3: And over the last fifty years, we managed to shut

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Speaker 3: down whaling in the Soviet Union now Russia, of course, Spain, Chile,

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Speaker 3: Peru around the world, leaving only Japan and Norway and

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Speaker 3: Iceland as the remaining whaling nations in their own territorial waters.

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Speaker 3: But we managed to stop Iceland for the last three years.

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Speaker 2: Is the whaling continuing secretly? Do you think?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: We monitor where it's going. There's a lot of whaling

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Speaker 3: in the off the coast of Japan and off Norway,

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Speaker 3: and those are the two places. There might be illegal

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Speaker 3: poaching here and there, but it's nothing significant. We're very

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Speaker 3: much opposed or working against the killing of pilot whales

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Speaker 3: and dolphins and the Danish Faroe Islands. And also we

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Speaker 3: have a team in Japan opposing the slaughter of dolphins

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Speaker 3: in Taiji and southern Japan. So those are two the

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Speaker 3: last primary projects involving cetaceans that we're working on.

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Speaker 2: As of right now. Paul, what is the environmental state

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Speaker 2: of our oceans?

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Speaker 3: I think it's a pretty bad shape. And one of

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Speaker 3: the things that people don't even know about, don't even

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Speaker 3: think about, is the fact that since nineteen fifty there's

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Speaker 3: been a forty percent dimni in phytoplankton in the sea,

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Speaker 3: and phytoplankton provides up to seventy percent of the oxygen

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Speaker 3: in the air we breathe and sequesters enormous amounts of

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Speaker 3: CO two. And on top of that, there's massive hob

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Speaker 3: exploitation of krill in the Southern Ocean, which is one

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Speaker 3: of our projects right now. Krill is pretty much the

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Speaker 3: foundation for the food chain in the Southern Ocean, feeding

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Speaker 3: the whales, of penguins, of fishes, and seabirds. And why

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Speaker 3: this is taking place is that Norwegian and Chinese companies

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Speaker 3: are extracting the krill six hundred and twenty five thousand

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Speaker 3: metric tons last year. They want to take one point

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Speaker 3: two million metric tons this year, and it's being converted

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Speaker 3: into a cheap protein base for salmon on salmon farms

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Speaker 3: around the world. So we're literally starving the penguins and

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Speaker 3: the whales so that we can have cheap salmon.

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Speaker 2: Back in two thousand and seven, a scientist by the

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Speaker 2: name of Robert Lanza proposed the theory of biocentrism. What

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Speaker 2: does that mean.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's what I've been promoting for many many years now.

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Speaker 3: I wrote a book recently called Biocentrism, and what it

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Speaker 3: means is that most of the human species has an

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Speaker 3: anthropocentric codelook. It's all about us. We're number one, where

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Speaker 3: the dominant species. It was all created for us. Biocentrism

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Speaker 3: is the idea that we're part of the ecosystem not dominant,

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Speaker 3: that we're equal to all other species, and that we

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Speaker 3: need each other. We have to live in harmony with

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Speaker 3: all of these other species. It's based on the fact

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Speaker 3: that there are three basic laws of ecology. The first

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Speaker 3: is the law of diversity, the strength of an ecosystem

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Speaker 3: is dependent upon diversity within it. The second is the

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Speaker 3: law of interdependence, that all species with an ecosystem are

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Speaker 3: interdependent with each other. And the third the law of

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Speaker 3: finite resources. That there's a limited growth because there's a

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Speaker 3: limited carrying capacity, and when one species steals the carrying

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Speaker 3: capacity from other species, that leads to diminishment in both

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Speaker 3: diversity and interdependence, and that leads to ecological collapse. So

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Speaker 3: I think if we're going to survive, we have to

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Speaker 3: learn to live in harmony with all other species and

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Speaker 3: understand just how valuable we are. You know, we do

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Speaker 3: not live on a planet without worms and bees and

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Speaker 3: trees and whales and fishes. We simply can't. And so

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Speaker 3: in fact, in many ways are more important than we are,

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Speaker 3: because they can live here without us, but we cannot

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Speaker 3: live here without them.

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Speaker 5: And I know you're going to want them after hearing this.

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Speaker 5: This is an amazing story.

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Speaker 1: We've got Stephen and Malachi Gregory in Nelson, New Zealand.

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Speaker 5: I understand that Malachi, who's eight almost nine years old now,

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Speaker 5: was suffering with not just one or two warts, but

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Speaker 5: I mean as significant outbreak of warts all over his body,

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Speaker 5: so significant it impacted his ability to really function.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he was having trouble even holding a pencil to right.

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Speaker 4: It was Ty's book actually that got me thinking about it.

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Speaker 3: I'm not surprised.

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Speaker 5: It is an amazing immuno modulator, and so I can

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Speaker 5: see that it would work. And so at what point

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Speaker 5: did you see that there was actually improvement it's really

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Speaker 5: going to work.

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Speaker 4: Well, look, we really started to notice it around twelve weeks.

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Speaker 4: You can see these things actually getting smaller and smaller

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Speaker 4: and then going down to with just little red marks.

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Speaker 4: The whole things are gone, and we're talking about what's

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Speaker 4: you know one that size the wanner. I thought, no way,

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Speaker 4: that's gonna Wow. That's just been miraculous to say them

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Speaker 4: get into a pair of shoes.

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Speaker 3: Yes, how wonderful. It's great to see. I'm so happy

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Speaker 3: and yes, uli absolutely wonderful for instead of seen it

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Speaker 3: that is blown away. Hi, this is awesome. Yeah, this

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Speaker 3: is awesome.

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Speaker 6: Another amazing story. Why we're talking about Carnivora. Call them

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Speaker 6: to awaken your immune system and protect yourself now called

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Speaker 6: one eight sixty six eight three six eighty seven thirty five.

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Speaker 6: That's one eight six six eight three six eighty seven

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Speaker 6: thirty five. Or visit carnivora dot com c A r

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Speaker 6: niv O r A carnivora dot com.

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Speaker 2: Are most countries, Paul trying to protect the environment.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think the problem is is that governments are

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Speaker 3: incapable of solving these problems. I've been to you know,

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Speaker 3: just recently in Brazil at the Climate change conference. There's

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Speaker 3: been thirty climate change conferences, nothing that has come out

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Speaker 3: of any of them over the last three decades. And

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Speaker 3: the reason for that is that it's political suicide for

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Speaker 3: any world leader of politicians to actually do anything because

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Speaker 3: it was going to it's going to offend a lot

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Speaker 3: of people. It's going to offend the corporations and the

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Speaker 3: media and everything, because well it's going to change. You know,

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Speaker 3: everybody wants change, but nobody wants to change, and that's

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Speaker 3: the problem. So I don't really count on any solutions

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Speaker 3: coming through governments. But I I am, you know, encouraged

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Speaker 3: by the passion, the courage, and the imagination of individuals

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Speaker 3: around the world who are driving this movement and making

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Speaker 3: people aware and changing laws and getting things done, especially

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Speaker 3: amongst young people right now, because young people today are

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Speaker 3: in the situation that us older people really haven't experience,

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Speaker 3: is that they have no idea what the future is

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Speaker 3: going to be thirty forty fifty years from now is

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Speaker 3: so unpredictable. You know, when I was younger, we had

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Speaker 3: a pretty good idea, but not anymore. So it's a

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Speaker 3: scary situation for them, and it's motivating a lot of

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Speaker 3: people to get involved. And they're also realizing that they're

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Speaker 3: not getting any answers through through governments, and therefore they

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Speaker 3: have to go out there and get answers themselves. And

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Speaker 3: you know, the strength of an ecosystem is in diversity.

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Speaker 3: Therefore the strength of any movement is in diversity, and

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Speaker 3: that it includes education and litigation and legislation and activism.

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Speaker 3: Those things, four things working together is what makes a movement.

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Speaker 2: If the oceans die, Captain, what happens to us.

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Speaker 3: Well, very simple, the oceans die, we die. Well, you know,

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Speaker 3: we can't live on this planet with a dead ocean

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Speaker 3: and with the demise of phytoplankton. If phytoplankton disappears from

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Speaker 3: the ocean, then we don't survive. Phytoplankton is the foundation

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Speaker 3: of life on this planet for the most part, is

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Speaker 3: out of sight and out of mind. But why has

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Speaker 3: phytoplankton been diminished forty percent since nineteen fifty And the

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Speaker 3: reason for that is a diminishment of whales and seals

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Speaker 3: and seabirds and other marine creatures that provide the nutrient

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Speaker 3: based for the phytoplankton. Because phytoplankton is dependent upon magnesium, nitrogen,

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Speaker 3: and iron especially, and those elements are provided by the

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Speaker 3: feces of all of these animals. I mean, one day,

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Speaker 3: every day, one blue whale dumps three tons of manure

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Speaker 3: into the ocean heavily, all those three those three elements.

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Speaker 3: And when you diminish whale populations, you diminish that nutrients supply.

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Speaker 3: That's why every species is interlinked, it's interspecies connections. And

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Speaker 3: so we need a healthy whale population if we're going

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Speaker 3: to have a healthy phytoplankton population. We need healthy marine

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Speaker 3: mammal populations. If we're going to have healthy fish populations

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Speaker 3: and seabirds and so on and so on, because everything

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Speaker 3: is interconnected.

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Speaker 2: When a female whale drops a whale, how many do

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Speaker 2: they normally carry? Just one?

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Speaker 3: Usually just one? Yes, just one. And they say they

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Speaker 3: have a long gestation period and it takes a few

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Speaker 3: years to raise a calf before they become pregnant again,

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Speaker 3: so it's a very slow reproduction.

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Speaker 2: The biggest whales you've ever seen are how big.

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Speaker 3: Blue whales tend to be, can be up to one

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Speaker 3: hundred feet in length, you know, sper The biggest one

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Speaker 3: I've ever seen, the sperm whale, is seventy feet. The

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Speaker 3: big animals.

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Speaker 2: Are they dangerous to people?

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Speaker 3: No, even the orcas, you know which the orca is

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Speaker 3: the most powerful predator on the planet. I've swum with them.

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Speaker 3: There's not a single case of an orca ever killing

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Speaker 3: a human being in the world. In captivity, three people

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Speaker 3: have died. But then then again, I look at captive

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Speaker 3: orcs as almost being in you know, psycho because they're

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Speaker 3: in this confined area and they just go crazy. But

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Speaker 3: in the wild, no orca has ever attacked a human being,

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Speaker 3: and the same with other whales or they don't harm people.

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Speaker 3: And in fact, in nineteen seventy five, one of the

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Speaker 3: things that changed my life is that of Orca of

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Speaker 3: sperm whale spared my life. It could have killed me

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Speaker 3: easily and chose not to do so. And why I

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Speaker 3: say it chose not to do so. This was a

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Speaker 3: wounded sperm whale that had just been harpooned by a

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Speaker 3: Soviet whaling vessel, and it was thrashing about on the

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Speaker 3: surface of the water and agony. And I caught its

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Speaker 3: eye and he dove, and this time he came out

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Speaker 3: of me real fast. Underwater. I saw this trail of

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Speaker 3: bloody bubbles coming towards us, and he came up and

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Speaker 3: out of the water an angle so that the next

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Speaker 3: movement was to fall straight down on our boat. There

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Speaker 3: was two of us in the boat, and that would

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Speaker 3: have crushed us. But as his head rose up in

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Speaker 3: the water, I'm looking into this eye the size of

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Speaker 3: my fists, and I'm looking into that eye so close

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Speaker 3: I could see my own reflection in that eye. God,

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Speaker 3: That's when I saw something that changed my life, because

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Speaker 3: I felt understanding the whale, understood what we were trying

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Speaker 3: to do, because I could see the epity made to

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Speaker 3: pull himself back. His head began to slide back into

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Speaker 3: the sea as eye disappeared beneath the surface, and he died.

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Speaker 3: He could have killed us, chose not to do so.

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Speaker 2: There's an intelligence there right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, whales are extremely intelligent. But the problem is is

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Speaker 3: we've been conditioned to equate intelligence with a tool manipulation.

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Speaker 3: You know, if a blob of protocols and steps out

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Speaker 3: of a spaceship with a raygun, all no arguments must

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Speaker 3: be intelligent because it has technology. We don't understand non

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Speaker 3: manipulative intelligences, intelligent life, ones that don't need tools or

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Speaker 3: things like that. The biggest brains on this planet, the

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Speaker 3: most complex brains on this on it or orcs and

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Speaker 3: sperm whales. I mean, the human brain is about approximately

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Speaker 3: seventeen hundred qv excentimeters, the orca six thousand cubic centimeters,

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Speaker 3: and the sperm whale the largest brain, most complex brain

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Speaker 3: on the planet is nine thousand cubic centimeter brain. They're

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Speaker 3: extremely intelligent, but they're not an intelligent in the way

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Speaker 3: that we appreciate intelligence and we define what intelligence is.

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Speaker 3: I always say to students, you know, if you're in

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Speaker 3: biology one O one and they show you a rat's

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Speaker 3: brain and compare it to a dog's brain, and then

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Speaker 3: to a chimp brain, and then a human brain. The

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Speaker 3: teacher will say, well, you can see by the increasing

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Speaker 3: size of the brain and the convolutions on the neocortex

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Speaker 3: area that people are smarter than chimps, and chimps are

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Speaker 3: smarter than dogs. But they never ever put an orca

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Speaker 3: or sperm whale brain up there because it makes us

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Speaker 3: look really stupid, and we don't like to do that,

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Speaker 3: so we just admit it.

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Speaker 2: How would you weigh the intelligence of a dolphin?

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Speaker 3: I think that they're equal intelligence to people. We know

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Speaker 3: they communicate. Right now, we're actually doing some very exciting

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Speaker 3: research on the possibility of communicating with whales and dolphins,

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Speaker 3: and hopefully we'll be able to translate their language. We

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Speaker 3: know it's a very complex language and you know, on

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Speaker 3: levels higher and lower than frequencies we understand, and also

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Speaker 3: that they communicate a lot of information in short sound bites.

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Speaker 3: We've actually we actually found that dolphins referred to each

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Speaker 3: other by names. They have names for each other, which

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Speaker 3: is incredible. So there's so much we can learn, and

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Speaker 3: I hope one day that we'll be able to read

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Speaker 3: a book that's written by a dolphin or an orca.

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Speaker 3: I think it's quite possible. I know it sounds fantastic,

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Speaker 3: but I think that it could happen, And a lot

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Speaker 3: of scientists are an agreement with us on that.

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Speaker 2: I exposure the dolphins, of course, was Flipper, and that

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Speaker 2: was one heck of a dolphin, wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Flippers actually a couple of dolphins. You know, a

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Speaker 3: few actors going on there, But the Flipper actually was

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Speaker 3: the animal that motivated Ricobert to spend his entire life

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Speaker 3: protecting dolphins. He was a trainer on the Flipper program

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Speaker 3: and ever since he's been the leading one of the

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Speaker 3: leading advocates for the protection of dolphins.

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Speaker 2: And after the break, let's talk a little bit more

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Speaker 2: about the oceans and these plastic islands that seem to

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Speaker 2: be accumulating. How big are they?

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Speaker 3: Well, they could be the size of you know, the

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Speaker 3: state of New York in some places. But they're not

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Speaker 3: really islands in the surface. I mean you don't really

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Speaker 3: see them. They're sort of just under the water. You

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Speaker 3: could actually sail over them and not even see them.

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Speaker 3: But we're looking at literally hundreds of billions of particles

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Speaker 3: that are in the ocean and floating around.

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Speaker 2: And they accumulate. Somehow they stick together, don't they.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they accumulate because of ocean currents or what they

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Speaker 3: call gyrs that keep them moving into circular motion in

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Speaker 3: various parts of the ocean. In the Pacific, there's two,

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Speaker 3: I think, in the Atlantic and the Caribbean, different places.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern and go to Coast to coastam dot

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Speaker 1: com for more