1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of My Heart Radio's Elizabeth Donne. 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: Oh you know what's ridiculous? Oh yes, I'm so glad 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: you asked me. You know, the phrase blowing smoke up 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: your okay, So that comes from a historical medical treatment. 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: I just found out that that used to be like 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: back in the seventeenth and eighteen centuries, that was a 7 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: way that doctors would like cheer things. They were like, oh, yeah, 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: you know what, you need some smoke up your butt. 9 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: And so they had like what was called the resuscitator kit, 10 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: and it was like a rubber rectal tube and like 11 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: a bellow and then they get some dude with like 12 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: a pipe or a cigar getting that thing heated, like 13 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: just fired up, and then they would pump all the 14 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,279 Speaker 1: smoke into the bellows and they go all right, we're 15 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: gonna put this in your button now. And then they 16 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: would put the tube in there and they put smoke 17 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: and they they puff it into your body. And the 18 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: reason why they did this was to beat the cold, 19 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: a flu, a headache, you know, rheumatism, collard, pretty much, 20 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: whatever you had. They're like, smoke in your butt, that's 21 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: what you need. We can't put any cocaine in your blood, 22 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: so we're gonna put some smoke in your butt. The 23 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: reason why you may be wondering is because tobacco animals 24 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 1: were considered very powerful because they're basically a stimulant. You know, 25 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: anything is a stimulant, So they were even trying to 26 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: fight death with this. That's how strong they thought these were. 27 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: And the reason why you've never ever heard of a 28 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: doctor telling you need to put some tobacco in your 29 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: butt is because by eighteen eleven, scientists had finally discovered 30 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: that nicotine in sufficient doses is a poison. They're like, oh, 31 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait a minute, everybody put down the 32 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: resuscitator kits. We need to stop blowing smoke on each 33 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: other's butts. This is not good for people. So then 34 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: they stopped and thus ended the tobacco animal. Wow. Not 35 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: ridiculous medicine. See, that's why people say madern medicine. I'm 36 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: totally into it, but I'm also going to be remained 37 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: just a little skeptical because of tobacco animals and things 38 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: like that. Well, what is today's booty smoke? Yes? And 39 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: you know what, Well, I'm not trying to be like 40 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: all anti vax. I'm just saying, is that I'm not 41 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: going to think that just push them and being has 42 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: come up with something that it's like, oh, this is 43 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: cutting edge. I'm like, is this the tobacco animal or not? 44 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Is there something you know that 45 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: in fifty blood boys are like when you have like 46 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: a person in a chair, it's like who's hooked up 47 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 1: to like a tube and they have their good, healthy 48 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: young blood their body and pumped into your body. You're 49 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: sitting there all like vampire vampire style. I'd say that 50 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: that kind of counsel. Yeah, the blood bag boys are 51 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: the blood Okay, we'll put that on her life. That 52 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: is that's ridiculous. That is ridiculous. Do you want to 53 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: know what else I'm here for it? Uh, it's it 54 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 1: is ridiculous how easy it is to get what over 55 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: on people as long as you drop a big enough name. 56 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: You mean, like a celebrity name. Yeah, not just like 57 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: a big name like Benjamin Cumberbatch. Well maybe it is 58 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,239 Speaker 1: a celebrity that doesn't really count. So like John Jacob 59 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: Jingleheimer Schmidt. Yes, yes that's not a big name, but 60 00:02:50,800 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: his name is my name too. This is Ridiculous Crime, 61 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: a podcast about absurd and outrageous capers, heists and cons. 62 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 1: It's always murder free and ridiculous. Zen. I've told you 63 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: about Soapy Smith, the Frontier Conmen. We've talked about Yellow 64 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: Kid top of the con Man Game. Um, both of 65 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: these guys committed multiple ridiculous crimes in their times. And 66 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: that's you know what, That's the great thing about con 67 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: artists well as far as content for the show goes. Yeah, 68 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: like sometimes we can look at one specific con and 69 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: then maybe someone who pulls off a couple of jobs, 70 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: Like remember the Dog Show ladies. She was a good 71 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: con artist. She had a couple of them. I love 72 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: the ones who just make it their life's work to 73 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: swindle every possible person in every possible way. These actually 74 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: blanket Yeah, they're just carpet bombing the world with their cons. 75 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: So today I have one like that. Um. This woman 76 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: was known as the patron Saint of Confidence women. Her 77 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 1: name was Elizabeth Bigley at birth from her yes, yes, Um, 78 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: we'll have that in our merchandise someday, the Ridiculous Crime 79 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: rch Um. So she's born Elizabeth Bigley, but she later 80 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: for her. She's better known as Cassie Chadwick. Check Cassie Chadwick. 81 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:36,679 Speaker 1: She's born in eighteen fifty seven in Ontario, Canada, and 82 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: she was the fifth of eight children, so she's from 83 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: this big family. Um she uses throughout her career. She's 84 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: just like a dozen different names. But um, when she's 85 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: a kid, she had a speech impediment because she lost 86 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: her hearing in one ear, so it wasn't something that 87 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: she was born with. She develops the speech impediment and 88 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: in order to overcome it, she starts to really speak 89 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: in a super precise way. She's really mindful and focus, 90 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: puts a lot of energy into how she talks. And 91 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: she then, because she's focusing so much on how she talks, 92 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: she focuses on how other people talk and she gets 93 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: really good at imitating people. Interesting. Yeah, you can see 94 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: how this kind of shapes who she's going to be. 95 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: She has this gift, she decides to use it. Her 96 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,559 Speaker 1: classmates growing up, they all thought she was really weird. 97 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: She was an introvert. She could like sit by herself 98 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: totally quiet for hours and hours. Um. Some people said 99 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: it was kind of like she was in this trance 100 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: like she's not aware of anything around her. So, um, 101 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: she'd come out of it and be like a little disoriented, 102 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: but she wouldn't want to talk about what she was 103 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: thinking about. It kind of sounds like absence seizures a 104 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: bit um, But she was just she was fine. Just 105 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: oh yeah, she's just like in her own world. Um. 106 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: She would practice the signatures of the people in her 107 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: family a lot like she forgery. Although when I was 108 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: reading about this, I was my grandma used to make 109 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,559 Speaker 1: me practice her signature because when I was like seven 110 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: or eight, she got tired. She's like, you know what, 111 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 1: you balance the checkbooks, you pay the bills, here's my checkbooks. 112 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: Signed the check. Yeah, I'd pay like utility bills and stuff, 113 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: and I'd sign her checks. And so it's like I 114 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: got really good at signing her name. Anyway, my sister 115 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: trying to do the same thing. But we practiced our 116 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: mother's signature. We just didn't do the checkbook part. We 117 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: just practice her signature and then we got really good 118 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: at it and we did our own notes. So yeah, 119 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: same idea. So the same idea. So she's she's there, 120 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 1: she's like making sure she can sign everyone's name. That 121 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: she meets Um. She's thirteen years old when she pulls 122 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: her first scheme. She wrote a letter that said that 123 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: her uncle had died and left her a small inheritance, 124 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: and it was looking look a super convincing letter. And 125 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 1: so she takes it and goes to a local bank 126 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: and says, look, I'm come, I've come into this inheritance. Um, 127 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: can you open an account for me? So they issue 128 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: checks that allow her to spend that money in advance 129 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: on the account that doesn't even exist yet. So she 130 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: gets arrested just thirteen, She's just cutting checks like, you know, 131 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: I'm so sad about my uncle. Um. And then they 132 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: but they she gets arrested and they just tell her 133 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: don't ever do this again. They get her a warning, UM, 134 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: so you know, don't ever do it again. And when 135 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: she's twenty two in eighteen seventy nine, she does, in 136 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: fact do it again. That nine year I mean yeah, well, 137 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: I mean she honed she thought about it. Um. First, 138 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: she she saves up her money and she buys expensive 139 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: letter head and then she writes a letter to herself 140 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: using a fake name and address for like a fake 141 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: attorney in Ontario that an unnamed philanthropist has died and 142 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: left her fifteen thousand dollar inheritance, making her an heiress. 143 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: That's like four forty dollars today. So she perfects her 144 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: first crime in a sense, Yeah, exactly, she and she 145 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: ups it. She has a much nicer letter head, and 146 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: you know, she makes it. She puts all this like 147 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: fake information to make it seems so a girl, then 148 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 1: I am a woman. She's come of age in her criming. 149 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: So she's got to like announce her fortune now, right, 150 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: she's got the letter. The best way, she felt, was 151 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: to have business cards printed up. And apparently real heiresses 152 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: in high society would do this like calling cards, right, 153 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: but hers said, miss Bigley airiss to fifteen thousand dollars. 154 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: It's like a dot com business card, so instead of 155 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: you know, having it low, it's associated with the name 156 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: of like oh, the Ontario big Leies. Well, no, she's 157 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 1: heiress to fifteen thousand dollars. So from there she she 158 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: like takes advantage of all the business practices of the day. 159 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: She'd go and buy something really expensive and write a 160 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: check on this fake account and then have it exceed 161 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: the price of the item, because businesses back then would 162 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: be willing to give you the cash difference. Do you 163 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: remember when stores did that like a check over? And yeah, 164 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: they give you the changes for like walking around money? So, UM, 165 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if you can still do that. I 166 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know people write checks anymore? What 167 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,439 Speaker 1: are you? You write checks? Right? I do have a checkbook. 168 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: I take it back, I do know someone who writes checks. Um. 169 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: If anyone, though, was like bold enough to step up 170 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 1: and be like, oh, can you really afford this? Then 171 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: she throw down her calling card like, um, hello, dollars 172 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: got to be true. So the shopkeepers like, well, you 173 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: know what, if she didn't have the money, she wouldn't 174 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: carry that card around with her, so okay, and you know, 175 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: and and they're also like how could anyone be so 176 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: crazy to lie about something like that, just so blatantly. 177 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: So that con comes to the to an end. She 178 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: gets arrested in March of eighteen seventy nine. UM. At trial, 179 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: she gets declared both insolvent because they're like, you're not 180 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: an arress to anything, um, and also insane so um. 181 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: She gets released to her sister, Alice York in Cleveland. 182 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: So are like, you you need someone watching over you 183 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: don't asylum. They're just like, well, let your family take 184 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 1: care of this. UM. And she said, you know, I'm 185 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: not going to do it again, but then she immediately 186 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: did it again. So she this time she just makes 187 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: much better calling cards, perfecting everything totally. You know, try 188 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: try again. So she makes these really great calling cards 189 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: that really look legit. UM. Banks attorneys like, everyone's convinced 190 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: that she has this fortune. So they're giving her all 191 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: this money with zero collateral. And the thing is is 192 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: that she they would say, Okay, we're going to make 193 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: a loan to you, and they're insane interest rates, like 194 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 1: horrible UM. And so you know they're they're they're getting 195 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: what they think they're getting one over on her, and 196 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, sure, okay, and then she'd say, you 197 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: know what, because you're doing this for me, I'm also 198 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: going to give you a huge bonus that she would 199 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: then pay them out of the money they just gave her. UM. 200 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: So her sister, Alice york Um this is how she 201 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: described Bigley's arrival from Ontario to Cleveland. About that time. 202 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: I was compelled to leave the city to go to Woodstock, 203 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: Ontario for my health. I left my sister Elizabeth in 204 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: charge of the house, and during my absence, she mortgaged 205 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: all the furniture, giving her name is Mrs Alice M. Basteto. 206 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: I came home and learned of her doings, but did 207 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: nothing in the way of prosecuting her. She went to 208 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: live in several rooming houses, and even there borrowed money 209 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: by mortgaging furniture that did not belong to her. From 210 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 1: one house to another, she went and repeated the operation 211 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: using different names. I paid many of her debts and 212 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: squared matters for her. At that time, I began to 213 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: think that she was unbalanced. She told me that she 214 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: did not know what prompted her to do the things 215 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: she did. So she's going out, it's like, you know, 216 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: using this this furniture is collateral. While her sister was 217 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: out of town, like you know, Elizabeth Bigley, She's like, 218 00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna go out and look for a job. 219 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: She's not going out to look for a job. Um, 220 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:03,959 Speaker 1: what she was really doing was going bank to bank 221 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: using the contents of their house as collateral to get loans. 222 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: So she's like, this is my here's my new name, 223 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: whatever name she thought that I brought in exactly, let 224 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: me get take a loan out. Um. So the husband 225 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 1: Alice's husband finds out and kicks her out. It's like, 226 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: you gotta, you gotta get out of here because now 227 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 1: that you know, everything in his home is leverage. So 228 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 1: she gets kicked out. She moves to one Garden Street 229 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: in Cleveland, and she rents the lower floor of this house. 230 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: She tells the landlady Mrs Brown, that she's a widow, 231 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: and she uses funds from one of her fake bank 232 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: loans against her sister's furniture. She takes the identity of 233 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: Madame Lydia da Vere and she starts a business as 234 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: a clairvoyant. I was waiting for this, just like she 235 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 1: is so like, she's so tireless in her cons like 236 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: she's just a shark. She's got to keep swimming. So 237 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: shortly after she opens up, she meets this guy, Dr 238 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: Wallace Springsteen. They get married December of three. She takes 239 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: the name Mrs Lydia Springsteen and they moved to his 240 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: house on Garden Street in Cleveland. UM the Cleveland Plane Dealer. 241 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: They run a story and a photograph because like, now 242 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: you know she's married a wealthy doctor. So he's not 243 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: a mark. I mean, he's not a he's not a complice. 244 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: He's a mark. He's a market. So a few days 245 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: after her her pictures all over the paper, people start 246 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 1: showing up. They want payment for all of these loans. 247 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: They're like, oh wait a second, that's that lady that 248 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: hold on. I haven't been able to find her. So 249 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: the husband right, like he verifies all their stories, Like 250 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: he discovers that all the furniture that was given given 251 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 1: his wedding gifts were being repossessed because she had already 252 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: mortgaged them. It's like, they get all these gifts. She 253 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: turns around, she's just getting cash for it, writing, making 254 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: a list. Dr Springsteen pays off his wife's debts because 255 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: he needs to fix his own credit, and then he 256 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: divorces her. He's like, I wash my hands. So she 257 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: gets divorced from him. She starts continues to reinvent herself. 258 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: That's just what she does for a while. She goes 259 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: to Erie, Pennsylvania, and she calls herself Marie Rosa, and 260 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: she convinces all the locals there in Pennsylvania that she 261 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: um is the frail and sickly niece of William to 262 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: come to Sherman Civil War General odd choice, very odd. 263 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: I love this part so much, so Witness of just says, quote, 264 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: through a trick of extracting blood from her gums, she 265 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: led persons to believe she was suffering from a hemorrhage. 266 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: I have no idea what this has to do with 267 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: General Sherman, but they're saying, I'm General Sherman's niece and 268 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: my gums are bleeding. She's like, my face is bleeding. 269 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: I need to get back to Cleveland. So all the 270 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: locals they take up a collection to get her money 271 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: to go back to Cleveland. Off she goes, and so 272 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: they wrote, she gave them this forwarding address, this is 273 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: where I'm going to go. And the townspeople right to them, saying, hey, 274 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 1: you said you were going to repay us, you know, 275 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: to get your bloody gums out of here. And she 276 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: writes back, I am so sorry to tell you, but 277 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: Marie died. And then she writes this wonderful tribute to 278 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: how great Marie was, you know, and like she was 279 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: just some tragedy and she loved you so much for 280 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: helping her. So thank you so much. I'm going to 281 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: ask God to bless it personally, so as Marie as 282 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: Madame Marie La Rose. She gets married again, this time 283 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: to a farmer whose named John Scott, and he's in 284 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: Trumbull County, Ohio. Poor John Scott. Um. She's like, guess what, 285 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: I'm being abused at home. Um, I need someone to 286 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: help me. And he's thinking, oh god, okay, you know, 287 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: like this poor woman. She also wants him to sign 288 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: a prenup. So it's not a big deal these days, 289 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: but at that time, prenups were only used for the 290 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: super wealth super wealthy. Yeah. Yeah, So they get married. 291 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: They're full of charm. Oh living on a farm. Right. 292 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: This goes on for four years, but she starts getting 293 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: bored right, Like she's kind of settled down. She's like 294 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 1: more creating anymore. Yeah, she misses the thrill of the hunt. Um. 295 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: So she goes to a lawyer and she writes up 296 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: a sworn statement confessing to adultery, which is not true. Um. 297 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: And then she tells the lawyer file for divorce. I'm 298 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 1: out of here. Um. Now. I think based on kind 299 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: of like synthesizing all the snippets of information about this 300 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: part of her life from all these various sources. Um, 301 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: I think that she got the prenups so she could 302 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: just bust out the divorce quickly and cleanly when the 303 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: time came. So it wasn't about money. It was like 304 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: cutting the red tape and moving on. She was sharking again, 305 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 1: like to keep moving. But then why even need the paperwork, 306 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? It seems like there must 307 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: have been some leverage for her. It doesn't really make sense. 308 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: So she divorces him. Um. She marries a businessman by 309 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,000 Speaker 1: the name of C. L. Hoover, and they have a 310 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: son named M. L. And she sends Emil to live 311 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: in Canada with her parents and her siblings, like right away. 312 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: And then in Hoover died and he leaves Bigley his 313 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: entire estate and that's fifty thousand dollars worth, which that's 314 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: some cash then, because that's like one point five million today. Yeah, 315 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,239 Speaker 1: So she marries, well, she has a kid, gets rid 316 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: of him to go off to her family. He dies. 317 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: Now she's an actual heiress. When we come back from 318 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: this break, I'm gonna tell you what old Bigley did 319 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: with all that loot. All right, we're back. I like 320 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: that it's working out for her She's like followed that, like, 321 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,920 Speaker 1: dress for the job you want, but her job was 322 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 1: girls exactly. She's like, if you see it, be it. 323 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: So we have Elizabeth Bigley budding con artists. She has 324 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: a son. She sent him off to live in Canada 325 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: with her family. The old Hoover will M. L. Hoover 326 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: Um Hoover dies, she gets the chunk of cash. She 327 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: takes the money and moves to glamorous Toledo, Ohio. Oh good, 328 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: and it's there that she gets back into the clairvoyant business. 329 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: So she resumes that old alias Mademoiselle Lydia da Vere 330 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: and in in Toledo, she was living it up. She 331 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: had all these wealthy men as clients and she just 332 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: soaked them like she's just running hard cons of being 333 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: a clairvoyant. There loving what she does. That's where she 334 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:52,000 Speaker 1: meets this guy, Joseph Lamb. Lamb believed in her and 335 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 1: not just all her magical powers and her clairvoyance, but 336 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: thought she was incredibly financially savvy. Little did he know, 337 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: I'm hoping that she finds some partner and that's what 338 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,080 Speaker 1: I want for her. Well, he hires her as his 339 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 1: financial advisor and he pays her ten tho dollars money. 340 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: Then big Lee in turn, she got to forging. Right, 341 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: She draws up a fake promissory note from a rich 342 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: guy in Cleveland for thousands of dollars. She tells Lamb, Hey, 343 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: can you cash this for me your bank here in Toledo. 344 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: If you can't, like, I'm going to have to travel 345 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: out of state and get it cashed at my bank. 346 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: It's going to be really confusing. Lamb straight arrow, right, 347 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: everyone trusts him. He wants to help his new gal. 348 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 1: He winds up cashing about forty dollars in forged checks 349 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: for her huge amount of money. Then Lamb Bigley. Of 350 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: course they get arrested. There's no way to do what 351 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: she does and not get busted. So the problem is 352 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: that she doesn't. She didn't pull the con and disappear 353 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: into the watch was the way to do this. You 354 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: just can't keep doing it. You do want pulls it 355 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: and sticks around. So it's like no surprise and they're 356 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: like they come after her. Um. The San Francisco call 357 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: said that Lamb was innocent as he was quote held 358 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: in the woman's power and did not knowingly commit a crime. 359 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: So like the fact that the clairvoyant right now the 360 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: Cleveland Plaine Dealer. UH. They reported at eight o'clock tonight 361 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: Joseph Lamb and Madame de Vere the clairvoyant, who have 362 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: figured so prominently in the Brown forgeries, were arrested and 363 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: lodged in the Central station. The warrant was sworn out 364 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: by the First National Bank officials, who, it would be remembered, 365 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: had the note presented to them for collection. This morning, 366 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: the bank officials held a meeting to take action on 367 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,959 Speaker 1: the matter, and it was the first move they had 368 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: taken since the matter had been made public. It is 369 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: claimed that Madame Dever forged the notes and then gave 370 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: him to the Lamb for disposal. For some time past, 371 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: Lamb and the Madam have been intimate friends, and many 372 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 1: strange stories have been afloat as to their actions. On 373 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,600 Speaker 1: account of Lamb's high standing in the community and the 374 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: responsible position he held in the employee of the United 375 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: States Express Company, very little reliant was put in the stories. 376 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: It appears that the Madam has quite a romantic history 377 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: and has been known as Lydia d Scott, Mary Hoover, 378 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: Lizzy Hoover, Lydia Klington, and several other aliases and whose 379 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 1: right name is given as Louise Bagley. During her lifetime, 380 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: she has had a most remarkable career, and one too 381 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: that has a history. So it sounds like the Cleveland 382 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: plane dealer was suggesting that he was not such an 383 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:28,160 Speaker 1: innocent Lamb. Yeah, but Lamb gets acquitted of all charges 384 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: big lely though convicted of forgery and sentenced to nine 385 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: and a half years. Yeah, that was rough. So a 386 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: lot of her victims, including Lamb, they called her the 387 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: Lady of the Hypnotic Eye. So there are a lot 388 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: of people that really did think she had hypnotic powers. 389 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 1: And that was a really you know, a lot that 390 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: was a big thing at the time, respute and appeal. 391 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: He well, you know, people believed that spirits could be conjured, 392 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:56,159 Speaker 1: conjured from the dead. That hypnotism was accepted as a 393 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: way um for a lot of transgressions. Though like you know, oh, 394 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: I it wasn't me. I was hypnotized, Sir Arthur Conan 395 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: Doyle and all that right. The Boston Sunday Harold said 396 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: in nineteen o four, Cassie L. Chadwick or Madame de 397 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: vere for that was the name I knew her under 398 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: was the most remarkable woman I ever met in my life, 399 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: and her escapades since she left the penitentiary do not 400 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: surprise me in the least. And that was quoting Mrs 401 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: Flora kissing Her, matron of the Ohio Penitentiary, who was 402 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: in charge during Big Lei's incarceration from She was possessed 403 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: of wonderful hypnotic powers, could foretell the future, and even 404 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: as a convict, could bring to her men who were 405 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,479 Speaker 1: the cream of society and force of her power compel 406 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: them to do her bidding. Now, I know you don't 407 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: go for the woo woo, but like, do we think, okay, 408 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: do we think that she had a touch of the 409 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 1: woo woo or that she was just really good at 410 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:53,719 Speaker 1: tricking both men and women, Because it sounds like she 411 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 1: didn't just apply her wears on men who were amorous, 412 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: but it worked on women with equal measures. So it 413 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: wasn't just purely stry to have a touch of a gift. 414 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: That there's something about her. It is um, she Mrs 415 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: kissing her, The um, the one who you know was 416 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: in charge of the prison. Um, she said. As for 417 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: the female department, she ran to that certain extent and 418 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: we could do nothing with her mind. You I didn't 419 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: say she hypnotized me, but I know she did others, 420 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,640 Speaker 1: and I was afraid of her. She occupied the assistant 421 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: matrons quarters, held receptions for her gentleman friends, and she 422 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: would appear in the finest silks, practiced her arts at 423 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: her own free will. In fact, did everything to suit herself. 424 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: She always played the aristocrat, held herself above the other prisoners, 425 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: and her power over the board of managers and other 426 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 1: public men was so great that I was glad to 427 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: get away from her. At times. She was as fine 428 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: a woman as one could meet, Polite, kind and sociable. 429 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: She had the most remarkable eyes I ever saw in 430 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: a human being, in a beautiful mouth. One moment she 431 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: should be all smiles, and the next her face would 432 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,680 Speaker 1: light up with anger. Then she carried on dreadfully. She 433 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: would lose control of herself in the presence of the 434 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: men who called, and they were afraid of her. So 435 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: she is like, she's basically captivating everyone. Yeah, some women 436 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: like like an eighteen nineties Madonna, you know what I mean, 437 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: We're just everybody's like. Oh, and while she's in prison, 438 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,639 Speaker 1: she works as a clairvoyant. She told the Warden that 439 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: he'd lose five thousand dollars in a business deal, and 440 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: he did. And then she also said, guess what, You're 441 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: going to die of cancer and he did well, So 442 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: I think she may have had like a little bit also. 443 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: I mean, okay, let's if we're going to go down 444 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: this road, let's say you do have a little touch 445 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: of the woo woo. Wouldn't you then go into crime 446 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,159 Speaker 1: in the eighteen eighties and eighteen nineties if you're a 447 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 1: woman and you could be able to guess, like all 448 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: this person is like I gotta read, I gotta feel 449 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: like I would use that angle totally, totally, And I 450 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: think about it. It's like, you know, you always have 451 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: like family lore, old stories told by older, older relatives 452 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: about people who go into a trance. And you know, 453 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: um is a girl. Yeah, she goes into these trances. 454 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 1: She doesn't want to talk about it. And you know, 455 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: we can expl in it away, like I said, with 456 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: like absence seizures and stuff like that, but um, it is. 457 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: You know, it's curious to me. I I allow a 458 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: little bit of the woo woo into my life because 459 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 1: a porous boundary between what we know and what we 460 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: don't know, and she seems to go to cross exactly. Yeah, 461 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: she steps back and forth. So she starts this letter 462 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: writing campaign to the parole board. When she's in prison, 463 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 1: she promises, look, I'm never going to do I've changed everybody. 464 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've heard this before. Well, so she does 465 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: three and a half years and then you know, after 466 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: all these letters that she's writing, the governor of Ohio, 467 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: William McKinley, future president at the United States, he paroles 468 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,080 Speaker 1: her in. So she gets herself a job. She's working 469 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 1: as a hat sales lady, and then soon enough though, 470 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:47,719 Speaker 1: goes back into the clairvoyance game. Um, she works as 471 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: a seer. She sent a letter to McKinley warning him 472 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 1: about like his future. I don't know what's in the letters. Like, 473 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: so she she's not only working as a seer. She 474 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,479 Speaker 1: works as a madam in a brothel that she opened 475 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: up on the city's west side. She used the synonym 476 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: Cassie Hoover for that one. That's when she starts going 477 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,880 Speaker 1: by Cassie. So Cassie Hoover. She's taken like a little 478 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: bit of different parts of her life. She meets Dr 479 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: leroy S Chadwick. No, that's a name right there, Dr 480 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: Dr Leroy Chadwick. Um he comes from one of Cleveland's oldest, 481 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: richest families. Um he lived on Euclid Avenue, which was 482 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: also known as Millionaires Row. And Leroy met Cassie Hoover 483 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Bigley as a client for her clairvoyance service. Um 484 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: he had recently become a widower. Kind of makes him 485 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 1: a vulnerable mark. Um. So so Cassie made Larroy believe 486 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: that she believed she was just a proper widow running 487 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 1: a proper boarding house. And then Learoy broke into attractive 488 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: women who only wear long but it's a boarding and 489 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,479 Speaker 1: have a lot of gentleman callers. Um, They're like, no, 490 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: that's it's a brothel. What your boarding house is actually 491 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: a brothel? And then she faints, she pretends to faint. 492 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: So when she comes to, she begs, she begs, Leroy, 493 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,239 Speaker 1: take me away from that den of sin. I've been 494 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: pulled into a life of corruption unwittingly. And oh yes, 495 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: so he does. He, you know, gently cradles her off 496 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: and then he marries her. So Cassie Hoover became Cassie Chadwick. 497 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: And that's like her big name for her career. Um, 498 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: she called herself Cassie L. Chadwick. No one has any 499 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: idea what the L stands. Oh, it's not like e 500 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: L like Spanish like Cassie the Chadwick L Chadwick. Um, No, 501 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: it's L like take the L. So um she so 502 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: now you know she's in the big time because Leroy 503 00:27:53,440 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: Chadwick is rich, rich, right, famous family from so she said, 504 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: ends for a meal. She sends for her son to 505 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 1: come live with him. Everyone forgets about a meal, right. Um. 506 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: So she's living in a mansion on the fanciest street 507 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: in the city. One of her neighbors was a relative 508 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: of John D. Rockefeller. Don't forget that Rockefeller, the world's 509 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,199 Speaker 1: first self made billionaire. He was also the son of 510 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: a literal snake oil sales. So you know, simpatico. So 511 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: Cassie she goes on serious shopping spreeze. Right if she 512 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: feels like buying something, she did. She never checked price tags. 513 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: This raging unchecked consumerism bought her the nicknames the Queen 514 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: of Ohio and the Queen of frenzied Finance. That's a 515 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: strange nickname, you know. Right, So during the Christmas season 516 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: of three, she gave out eight grand pianos as gifts. 517 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: She's just slaying pianos post oh yes, people like you know, 518 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,040 Speaker 1: someone down the street and one of their man and 519 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: opens it like their servant opens the door and it's 520 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: a piano delivery, pushing figure out where to put this 521 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: one um. She bought like drapes, oil portraits, glass encased 522 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: perpetual motion clock. She bought a nine thousand dollar pipe 523 00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: organ made of gold. She bought a musical chair that 524 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: played a tune when someone sat on it. She got 525 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 1: all these like fancy closed from Sheshion. She bought Asian sculptures, 526 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: European furniture. She bought eight trays of diamonds and pearls 527 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: that were inventory at thousand dollars at the time. She 528 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: bought an ash tray in the shape of Texas that 529 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: was the size of Texas. In from the bar Times Leader, 530 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: a Pennsylvania newspaper, this is August, and this is regarding 531 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,360 Speaker 1: a pearl necklace being purchased by a famous ballerina. After 532 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: later on down the line, after Cassie's con falls apart, 533 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: jewelry was among the fads of Cassie Chadwick of frenzied 534 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: finance fame. Among them was a pearl necklace worth twenty dollars, 535 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,480 Speaker 1: which for many months reposed in a safe of Chas 536 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: f Leach, collector of Customs at the Port of Cleveland. 537 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: It was held for duty, and after the crash, when 538 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: creditors big and little jumped on the woman who pulled 539 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: the wool over the eyes of expert male financiers, the 540 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: pearl necklace was seized with the rest, and the Baltimore 541 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: Jeweler finally bought it. It is now owned by La 542 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: Petite Adelaide, the toe dancer who does her stunts nightly 543 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,479 Speaker 1: at both at the American Music Hall and in quote 544 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: up and down Broadway at the Casino New York. The 545 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: den SEUs exhibits her treasure at the Hotel Flanders, and 546 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: incidentally upon her neck she says she paid twenty tho 547 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: dollars for it. In the press, agents say a men 548 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: and swear to it. The necklace contains two pearls, each 549 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: weighing three and a half greens, and a hundred and 550 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: forty small diamonds aggregating ten carrots. Why don't newspapers write 551 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: like this anymore. For first of all, newspapers are dying. 552 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: R I P. I don't journalist like this ann the 553 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 1: press agents say amen and swear to so she this 554 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: is one of the things she bought us, this ridiculous proment. 555 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,400 Speaker 1: You said the crash was that like the crash of No. 556 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: This is the crash of her, like crash of Cassie Chadwick, 557 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: because you'll see what she didcial. So she's not just 558 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: buying jewels, she's also smuggling them. Um. This is from 559 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: the fort Worth Telegram in She's made it and she 560 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: still can't help herself, can't help it. She can't help. 561 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,800 Speaker 1: Throughout the erratic and varied criminal career of Mrs Cassie L. Chadwick, 562 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: whose persuasive eloquence caused some of the shrewdest financiers of 563 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: the country to part way with their money, there was 564 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: never a hint that she was a smuggler. The singular 565 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: woman whose vast swindling operations in other respects attracted the 566 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: attention of the entire world was a smuggler of diamonds 567 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: and other jewelry on a most colossal scale. According to 568 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: revelations now made during her lifetime, she is declared to 569 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: have smuggled into the United States merchandise mostly jewels worth 570 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: two million dollars. With the six tariff added, the value 571 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 1: will would be swelled to over three million. Back then, 572 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: she's running jewels, she's got hot rocks, and yet she's 573 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,640 Speaker 1: married to one of the most wealthy people in America. 574 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: So exactly, she's compulsion at this point, Oh yeah, totally. 575 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: And her like Larroy's friends and family are onto her immediately. 576 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: This is not right. None of them had ever heard 577 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: of Hoover before. She like she was introduced, so they 578 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: have no idea who she is. They don't her family 579 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: is what you're saying, yeah, and or just her like 580 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: all of a sudden. But the first time he introduces 581 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: him is like, this is my wife, like, oh you 582 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: got oh you got married. He said he fell in 583 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: love with her compassion when she gave him an impromptu 584 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: massage after he complained about rheumatism pains in his back. 585 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: So compassion, that's what he calls it. One unders did 586 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: this happen at her compassion, her very compassionate hands, her 587 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: warm embrace. So Cassie, you know she's she's used her compassion. 588 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: Now she's taken control of le Roy's finances once their 589 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,920 Speaker 1: husband and wife. His money was in real estate and 590 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 1: real estate values in late Cleveland, We're on a real 591 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,959 Speaker 1: dip um. But Cassie wouldn't let that interfere with her 592 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,840 Speaker 1: new lifestyle. She had standards to maintain, so she cooked 593 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: up a con for the ages, A real doozy and 594 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: it would be her ultimate downfall. When we get back 595 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: from the spreak, I'm gonna let you know all about 596 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: it until then. Here's a hint. It involves one of 597 00:33:40,560 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: the richest men in the world at the time. Okay, 598 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: a little bit, we're back. Did you like those ads 599 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: so good? Are you going to buy all the stuff? 600 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 1: I got? Put my wallet away one second? Okay, for 601 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,439 Speaker 1: I'm going to buy all the stuff, Just just saying, 602 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:24,440 Speaker 1: So that's planning right there. What am I? Cassie Chadwick. 603 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: When we left off Cassie Chadwick, the real estate market 604 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: in Cleveland taken a hit. Cassie can't let that get 605 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: in the way of her luxurious lifestyle. Time to run 606 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: another con. So in two Cassie Chadwick took a train 607 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:44,239 Speaker 1: from Cleveland to New York City. New York City get 608 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: a rope um zaren close. Yes, I want you to 609 00:34:50,080 --> 00:35:01,359 Speaker 1: picture it. You are sitting in the law You're sitting 610 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,240 Speaker 1: in the lobby of the Holland House, a luxury hotel 611 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: on the corner of Street and Fifth Avenue. The building 612 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,320 Speaker 1: is a magnificent reproduction of the Holland House in London, 613 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: a palatial estate. The main entrance in the stairs are 614 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: all marble bronze. The wine cellar alone is worth three 615 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: dollars um. The hotel brags of using the hurt Zog 616 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 1: tellson A And I don't know if I'm saying that right, 617 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: but it's an electric indicator system where guests can like 618 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 1: set a dial in their room to an item that 619 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: they need, food, drink, whatever, newspaper. There are a hundred 620 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: and forty options, and so you turn the dial and 621 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,280 Speaker 1: you press a button and the office gets the request 622 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,080 Speaker 1: and then they send it whatever it is, right up 623 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 1: to the room, lifting your the receiver and having to 624 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: speak to a pleab. So it's a big deal that 625 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:54,279 Speaker 1: they had the old hurt Sog. Yeah, so this is 626 00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: dh yes, nineteen o two whatever, door dash, but it 627 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,759 Speaker 1: is it's the same. So there you are in this 628 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: opulent lobby Um, you're waiting for your business partner to 629 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,600 Speaker 1: join you for lunch in the grand restaurant at the hotel. 630 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: While you wait, you're enjoying people watching. The cream of 631 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: the crop is coming and going. You notice a woman 632 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: also waiting in the lobby. She seems a little anxious, 633 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: like she's waiting on someone in particular. You see her 634 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: get up. She approaches a man. You don't recognize him, 635 00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: but he's James Dillon. He's a lawyer and a friend 636 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: of the woman's husband. She walks his way and sort 637 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: of brushes against him, and when he apologizes, she turns. 638 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: What a coincidence, she says, But you clearly saw her 639 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: see him before she walked over. Weird. Um. So she 640 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,320 Speaker 1: tells the man that she's only in New York for 641 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: a little bit on private business. Actually, she tells him 642 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 1: she's headed over to her father's house and would love 643 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,280 Speaker 1: for someone to escort her there. The man James Dillon. 644 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 1: He agrees, and he heads outside to flag down an 645 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: open carriage. You, Zaron, are gloriously nosy, so you slowly 646 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: make your way outside to the front of the hotel. 647 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,319 Speaker 1: You're pretending to look at your pocket watch as you 648 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: listen to their conversation. You hear the woman give the 649 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: driver an address to East ninety one Street at Fifth Avenue. No, 650 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: you're thinking that cannot be right. And the woman she 651 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: said she was going to see her father. So you 652 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: watch as the carriage rolls away and James Dylan and 653 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: Cassie Chadwick a k a. Elizabeth Bigley chat happily away 654 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: in the back. It isn't until they reach their destination 655 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: that James Dillon realizes whose house this is? Zaren you 656 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 1: native New Yorker? You knew when you heard the address address. 657 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: It's the home of Steele Magnet Andrew. I'm like, Dylan Stunt, 658 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: this is her father's house. Are you kidding me? So 659 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: Cassie says, hold on, wait, wait here with the driver. 660 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: I'll be right back. I just gotta running quickly. I 661 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: won't be but a moment. So she knocks on the door. 662 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: The butler answers, and Cassie, you know she's addressed to 663 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: the nines. She is well mannered, she can speak in 664 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: in in the way that Sam makes her sound like 665 00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: a true heiress. He invites her into the foy a um. 666 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 1: She asks to speak with the head housekeeper. So now 667 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: Dylan has seen her go into the house and the 668 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:17,720 Speaker 1: door closes. The headhouse here keeper comes out and Cassie says, 669 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,560 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about hiring a maid. Her name is Hilda Schmidt. Um, 670 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: she said that she worked for you. I just want 671 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: to check on her references. So the housekeepers like, no, 672 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: I've never heard that name before. Um, no one has 673 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,399 Speaker 1: ever worked here under that name. So Cassie's like, oh, 674 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 1: that's so strange. Are you sure she she you know, 675 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,800 Speaker 1: Cassie describes this woman like, you know, height, hair, color, everything, 676 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: what you know, her composure is gives her all the details. 677 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,319 Speaker 1: This is where she was born, blah blah blah. No, 678 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: housekeepers like, I have no idea what you're talking about. 679 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,439 Speaker 1: There must be some mistakes. So Cassie's like, oh my god, 680 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: I am so sorry. I have taken your time and 681 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,400 Speaker 1: caused any inconvenience. I want to thank you. She she 682 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: pulls off this conversation with the housekeeper for like half 683 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:08,359 Speaker 1: an hour. She's okay, and then she's stretching time. So she's, 684 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna let myself out. Thank you 685 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: so much. So she leaves as she turns towards the street. 686 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: She pulls out this large envelope from her coat and 687 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 1: then she's holding it out. So she gets back to 688 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,400 Speaker 1: the carriage and Dylan's like, oh hey, what's up. Um. 689 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 1: He says to her, Okay, so, um, who exactly is 690 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: your dad? Because we just pulled up to this house. 691 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,760 Speaker 1: Cassie's like, okay, I'm gonna tell you, but you cannot 692 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: tell any of you. Promise, please promise, And she knows 693 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,360 Speaker 1: that it's not a promise he can keep. I'm Andrew 694 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: Carnegie's illegitimate daughter. Iimate smart. She shows him the envelope. 695 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,960 Speaker 1: She hands him the envelope and inside or two promisory notes, 696 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 1: one for two d fifty thousand dollars and one for 697 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: five hundred thousand dollars, both signed by Carnegie himself, plus 698 00:39:55,719 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 1: five million dollars in securities. Sky like she's got paperwork 699 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 1: with Like yea, she has all the paperwork. So she 700 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: says to Dylan, my dad gave me these because he 701 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,760 Speaker 1: feels a sense of duty to me, and he feels 702 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,400 Speaker 1: really guilty that he can't acknowledge that I'm his daughter, 703 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: so he gives me this money. All the time. Most 704 00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: mets like cheap skate of all the robber barians. I've 705 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: got a ton of these envelopes back home, and I've 706 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 1: just you know, I've hidden them in my stuff. I 707 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: don't know what to do. Um. And so she said, 708 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,120 Speaker 1: you know, my relation to him is currently secret certainly 709 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: not public, um, but I am in his will and 710 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to inherit a lot of money when he 711 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,720 Speaker 1: passes away, like four million dollars, which today is fourteen billion. 712 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: So she's like, I'm sitting on fourteen billion dollars, But 713 00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:52,840 Speaker 1: isn't that wild? Please don't tell anybody. So she's like, please, 714 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:54,840 Speaker 1: you know, I'm begging you. Just keep it a secret. 715 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 1: He's like, of course, of course he's lying. And that's 716 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,440 Speaker 1: what she's counting on. So word gets out to the 717 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 1: financial sector back in Cleveland, and the banks come calling. 718 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,000 Speaker 1: They want to get in on this and offer her 719 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:10,720 Speaker 1: financial services. She kept this con going for eight years. 720 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: What she pretended to be his daughter for eight years. 721 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: She had people thinking that they were in the know 722 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 1: that she was the secret daughter, and she kept and 723 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,759 Speaker 1: she's still married at oh yeah, nobody's going to be like, hey, 724 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 1: you're going to get lucky. No, because no one like 725 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 1: they're all kind of like whispering about it, but they 726 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 1: don't want to talk directly to anyone. Yeah. So she 727 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 1: takes out one loan after another under the guise of 728 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: having this huge inheritance, which is what she's going to 729 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: pay him off. She's using those Yeah, she's using those 730 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: forged securities as collateral. And everyone she dealt with thought 731 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 1: that they were like an insider on like a major 732 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:55,520 Speaker 1: society secrets. Yeah, they issue these loans. Um, they think 733 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,520 Speaker 1: that they're operating under discretion. They never mentioned it to 734 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: anyone else. Um. They thought that they were saving Carnegie 735 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: embarrassment and the banks that are charging these outrageous interest rates, 736 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 1: and they don't want anyone to know that that's what 737 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: they're doing. They're taking advantage. We've gotten to the reason 738 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 1: for secrecy. They were like, oh, we're going to make 739 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: a ton off this. Four. So it starts to fall 740 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: apart in nineteen o four when Herbert Newton Brookline, Massachusetts, UM. 741 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,240 Speaker 1: He brought a suit against her UM when she failed 742 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: to repay a loan, and he learned that all the 743 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: other loans that she had. He tallies them all up 744 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: and it comes to like way over a million dollars. 745 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 1: At that point, Cassie Chag can't pay him back, so 746 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:42,320 Speaker 1: he sued, and everyone else who loaned her money started 747 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,879 Speaker 1: to call in their loans. Sorry, pals, you're not getting paid. 748 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: They looked at the securities and the promisory notes and 749 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,040 Speaker 1: they realized that they're like a little bit hanky. And 750 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,239 Speaker 1: then this winds up breaking havoc on all of the 751 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: banks in Cleveland. Um. They splashed out all this money. 752 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,160 Speaker 1: They had nothing to show for it. Sit is in 753 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,799 Speaker 1: the National Bank of Oberlin, which had loaned her eight 754 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars. Um. They had a run on their 755 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 1: cash reserved and they went into bankruptcy because of her. Yeah, 756 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,640 Speaker 1: she's like destroying it. So the police are contacted. They 757 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 1: questioned Carnegie. He has no idea who she is, of course. 758 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,239 Speaker 1: Um Bigley flees to New York to an apartment that 759 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,800 Speaker 1: she kept the Hotel Breslin. She gets caught, arrested, hauled 760 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,920 Speaker 1: back to Cleveland. Um. She had over a hundred thousand 761 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 1: dollars in cash at the time of her arrest, like 762 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 1: shoved into a money belt, and then that's like three 763 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: point three million dollars today that she's running around but 764 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 1: that's difficult to store. I mean that's a lot. Yeah, 765 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 1: that's something like the bulk of it. She's got like 766 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,520 Speaker 1: a puff coat on. Remember. Okay, So her husband, Leroy, right, 767 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 1: he files for divorce and um, they go. Then he 768 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,560 Speaker 1: takes his daughters from a previous marriage and they go 769 00:43:52,640 --> 00:43:54,440 Speaker 1: on a grand tour of Europe. He just got the 770 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,920 Speaker 1: hell out of Dodge. She's like, I can't, I want 771 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: to divorce. I'm leaving. Um. It goes to trial in 772 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:06,240 Speaker 1: nineteen o five media sensation, so even Carnegie himself appears 773 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 1: in person. When he later examined the forged promissory notes. 774 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: This is what he said. If anybody had seen this 775 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,120 Speaker 1: paper and then really believed that I had drawn it 776 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,359 Speaker 1: up and signed it, I could hardly have been flattered. Uh. 777 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,640 Speaker 1: He noted that there were spelling errors and improper punctuation. 778 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 1: Why I have not signed a note in the last 779 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:27,920 Speaker 1: thirty years. So there's just if anyone had thought for 780 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: just a second about this, Um, everything could have been avoided, 781 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,800 Speaker 1: he said, if anyone bothered to ask him. But you know, 782 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: they all think that they're inside on a secret, and 783 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,160 Speaker 1: I think what it was. They're all like, oh, I'm 784 00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: gonna get mine, So why should I go ask him? 785 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,839 Speaker 1: He's not given it, Jimmy exactly exactly. Um. They all 786 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,359 Speaker 1: they thought they'd be like, you know, too embarrassed, right, 787 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,440 Speaker 1: Like they didn't want to embarrass him. Um. So Carnegie 788 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 1: gave money to the citizens of Oberlin who were affected 789 00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:02,880 Speaker 1: by the scam. He gave money to Oberlin College. Well, no, 790 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:05,400 Speaker 1: they lost. They was a college already, but they lost 791 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,440 Speaker 1: almost all their savings. And so he pays them back 792 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 1: and then through in a library of course. Um for 793 00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:16,239 Speaker 1: their trouble. He asked if he would press charges against her, 794 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,480 Speaker 1: and he said, why should I wouldn't you be proud 795 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,200 Speaker 1: of the fact that your name is good for loans 796 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,919 Speaker 1: of one point to five million dollars even when someone 797 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,440 Speaker 1: else signs it. It's glory enough for me that my 798 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: name is so good even when I don't sign it. 799 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,279 Speaker 1: Mrs Chadwick has shown that my credit is a one. 800 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: Like all you've done is I'm a baller. Um. This 801 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,239 Speaker 1: is you know I've said in the past about how 802 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,040 Speaker 1: you know it's it's you read these old newspapers and 803 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 1: they're like poems and them and stuff, and you think, man, 804 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,880 Speaker 1: like it'd be cool if we still had, you know, 805 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,960 Speaker 1: poetry as part of an everyday life. And then I 806 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: always think, no, probably not. And here's why it's probably not. 807 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,920 Speaker 1: Um So that someone wrote a poem about her that 808 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: was published in nineteen o four. Um it's a doozy. 809 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: It's called On the Pecuniary Collapse of Mrs Chadwick. I'm 810 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,000 Speaker 1: gonna start reading, and I may give up part way through. 811 00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 1: Cassie Hoover. Cassie Hoover whales the Buckeye in distress. Cassie 812 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: Hoover moans the come on. Cassie Hoover howls the press. 813 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,200 Speaker 1: Cassie Hoover, Cassie Hoover brookline swells, the doleful sound, and 814 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:23,240 Speaker 1: the Goldsmithson Hotelman Holler Hoover all around. I can't do anymore, 815 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,840 Speaker 1: so that it goes on like that and on like that. 816 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,920 Speaker 1: The last line, Uh, Cassie Hoover says Carnegie. Who is 817 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,799 Speaker 1: she never heard of? Cassie Hoover, never had a note 818 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 1: of me? Potry, I know, I don't, I really don't know. 819 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:43,800 Speaker 1: I hate it because of this, um So. Cassie maintains 820 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,399 Speaker 1: her innocence to the very end. She gets right. She's 821 00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,600 Speaker 1: like no, I swear I am. She gets found guilty, 822 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 1: Um sentenced to fourteen years in prison and a fine 823 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:57,880 Speaker 1: of seventy thollars. Because of her celebrity shod they let 824 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:04,279 Speaker 1: her bring in personal items to p and so, like clothes, furniture. 825 00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:06,880 Speaker 1: I don't know she pulled this last time she went 826 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,719 Speaker 1: to jail, like they she went to prison and they 827 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,759 Speaker 1: let her like have guys over do like saying if 828 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,400 Speaker 1: they don't, what is she going to cry? Real like 829 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 1: every night? Like what do they care? It's a prison. 830 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, but you know it's like the name, right, 831 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:23,200 Speaker 1: She's got the name at this point. But even though 832 00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,320 Speaker 1: she had all those creature comforts, she couldn't hold on. 833 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,680 Speaker 1: Her health suffered immediately when she went to prison. She 834 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:32,040 Speaker 1: rapidly lost weight. She had a nervous breakdown on September 835 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:36,680 Speaker 1: sevent nineteen o seven that left her blind. Um do 836 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,040 Speaker 1: we think it's hysterical blindness or actual? Probably? So she 837 00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: writes to m l Um and she says, I have 838 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,480 Speaker 1: money hidden away and that's what I want you to 839 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,880 Speaker 1: use to buy a tombstone for the family plot. Emma 840 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,279 Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, Um, she she did just 841 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:52,960 Speaker 1: a year in jail, and then she died at the 842 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:57,760 Speaker 1: age of fifty one on October seven. Now Tory Telfer 843 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,520 Speaker 1: is a writer. She wrote a book, Confident Women. Um. 844 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: This is what she had to say about Cassie Chadwick 845 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,920 Speaker 1: a k a. Elizabeth Bigley. She swindled a bunch of 846 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 1: bankers in America, and people were obsessed with her. They 847 00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: made fake twenty dollar bills with her face on them. 848 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:14,759 Speaker 1: One pharmacist actually sold a snake oil called Cassie Cha 849 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,759 Speaker 1: Chadwick nerve Tonic, which supposed to make you bold like 850 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:22,280 Speaker 1: she was. So it's like she gets. She gets she's 851 00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: hitching onto fame in order or you know, no notoriety, 852 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,000 Speaker 1: in order to get her own notoriety, and now everyone's 853 00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,880 Speaker 1: trying to hitch onto hers. Um In the Trent and 854 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,560 Speaker 1: Leaving News in nineteen eight, they said the printing of 855 00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,560 Speaker 1: Cassie Chadwick money must be discontinued. Chief Wilkie of the 856 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,880 Speaker 1: Government Secret Service will request District Attorney Baker to suppress 857 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,360 Speaker 1: the local enterprise. The Federal Book Company of this city 858 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,480 Speaker 1: prints the money and sells it to stores dealing in novelties. 859 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:50,400 Speaker 1: The Cassie Chadwick currency bears a likeness of the celebrated 860 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:53,320 Speaker 1: easy Monday adventurous, as well as photographs of a quote 861 00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 1: busted bank. So like the even the secret services, like, 862 00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: please stop printing Cassie Chadwick books. It's not funny. Um, 863 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:04,879 Speaker 1: she didn't have any formal education, she never had any 864 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,319 Speaker 1: financial training, and think at the time she can't even vote. 865 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,480 Speaker 1: But she out maneuvered the entire banking industry in Cleveland. 866 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:15,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well she turned their greed against them and 867 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,120 Speaker 1: made them all think like, oh, we're gonna go wet 868 00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: our beaks. And then she's like, oh, surprised, there's no right. 869 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,360 Speaker 1: And they do say that it's possible that she scammed 870 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,600 Speaker 1: even more money out of you know, the upper crust 871 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 1: in the in the United States, and out of more banks, 872 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,360 Speaker 1: but like historians believe that, um, a lot of the 873 00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,799 Speaker 1: male victims were hesitant to come forward to depped by 874 00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:39,400 Speaker 1: this by this broad as they would say, So, um, 875 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,200 Speaker 1: that is her story. What's her ridiculous takeaway? Sarin, Well, 876 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,400 Speaker 1: you know how you get to Carnegie Hall, It's the 877 00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:51,399 Speaker 1: same way you steal a fortune like this practice. That's 878 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 1: what I like about her. She's like, look, she worked before. 879 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:55,600 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna I'm gonna tweak it and I'm gonna 880 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:56,960 Speaker 1: turn it up here, I'm gonna dial it in there, 881 00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:58,680 Speaker 1: I'm trying it again. So the wait, I'm gonna do 882 00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:02,399 Speaker 1: it again. Do it. Her commitment. She's like a skateboarder 883 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 1: of crime. She's just gonna land that no matter what happened, 884 00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:07,839 Speaker 1: no matter how many times she gets hurt. A matter 885 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,560 Speaker 1: of time, she's gonna land the trick. And I persistent. Yeah, 886 00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:15,000 Speaker 1: she's persistent. And like the thing is, she could she 887 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,840 Speaker 1: could have gotten away with it, not if the meddling kids, 888 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,560 Speaker 1: but if she just moved on or just took a 889 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,080 Speaker 1: score and said that was the score, took the score 890 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:30,799 Speaker 1: she never stops doing was the score. Yes, she could 891 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:32,880 Speaker 1: have taken that and ridden it to Europe said I'm 892 00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:37,319 Speaker 1: divorcing your dumb chunk of a But no, he said, 893 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,279 Speaker 1: she's like I gotta have some like a string of 894 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,399 Speaker 1: pearls or whatever the hell I mean, Like, I Shane 895 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,440 Speaker 1: Ether nice, but I don't think it's about the pearls, girl, 896 00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,239 Speaker 1: So let's talking about something else. Maybe we can get you. 897 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,319 Speaker 1: It was it was compulsive. She could not stop. Well 898 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,560 Speaker 1: that's it, that's enough. A Cassie Chadwick, What did you 899 00:50:54,640 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 1: like about her ridiculous Thank you my Ridiculous takeaways? That 900 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,200 Speaker 1: she is just persistent, she will not stop, and that 901 00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,560 Speaker 1: the compulsion is interesting to me. That there are periods 902 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,560 Speaker 1: where she's able to kind of dial it down and 903 00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:10,719 Speaker 1: she doesn't do anything, she lays low, but then it's 904 00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,279 Speaker 1: like it's just this itch and she's got to keep going. 905 00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,840 Speaker 1: She's got to keep doing it. And that's that fascinates me, 906 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,000 Speaker 1: that you know, she doesn't have the the logic to 907 00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,640 Speaker 1: override it, that it's just this total compulsion for her. 908 00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,000 Speaker 1: It's like she's a criminal animal and it's like time 909 00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,359 Speaker 1: for her to mold her her antlers. You know, it's 910 00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,920 Speaker 1: like these are coming off sorry well and so wise 911 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,200 Speaker 1: to take advantage of people in the way that she does, 912 00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:35,040 Speaker 1: like by using big names and social embarrassment as a 913 00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,719 Speaker 1: as a factor in things. And she understood her time, 914 00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,800 Speaker 1: She definitely did. So, you know, I'm sorry for the 915 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,239 Speaker 1: people who lost their money, but she's she's pretty interestingly. 916 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,000 Speaker 1: You can find us online at Ridiculous Crime on both 917 00:51:50,040 --> 00:51:52,520 Speaker 1: Twitter for the talking and Instagram for the cock in 918 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:55,839 Speaker 1: email us at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. If 919 00:51:55,840 --> 00:52:04,719 Speaker 1: you feel like it, tune in next time. Ridiculous Crime 920 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,600 Speaker 1: is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zarin Burnett, produced and 921 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,240 Speaker 1: edited by Dr Dave Kusten of the Cleveland Coustons. Research 922 00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,200 Speaker 1: is by a Suspicious Lone agent Andrea Song sharpen Tier. 923 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,319 Speaker 1: The theme song is by Missing Carnegie twins Thomas Lee 924 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:21,359 Speaker 1: and Travis Dutton. Executive producers are Oberlin College librarians Ben 925 00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:34,360 Speaker 1: Bollen and Mel Brown. Say It one More Time. Ridiculous 926 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,240 Speaker 1: Crime is a production of iHeart Radio. Four more podcasts. 927 00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:40,320 Speaker 1: To my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 928 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,240 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,