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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of You

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Speaker 1: Need Therapy Podcast. My name is Kat. Welcome if you're new,

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Speaker 1: welcome to our family. As always, I like to give

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Speaker 1: a little disclaimer that this is not therapy itself. This

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Speaker 1: is just a podcast about mental health and therapy and

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Speaker 1: all of the things. And although I'm a licensed therapist,

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Speaker 1: I cannot be your licensed therapist unless I know about it.

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Speaker 1: So this is more of just a space where we

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Speaker 1: get to really talk about some things that should be

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Speaker 1: talked about more in the world and get us thinking

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Speaker 1: so we can go out and live more joyful and

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Speaker 1: more full real lives. Let's get into it. So this

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Speaker 1: week I'm pomped so excited about the guest. The last

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks I did a couple episodes by myself

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Speaker 1: that were more educational, and then I had my friends

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Speaker 1: Savannah on last week, who was awesome talked about sobriety.

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Speaker 1: And this week I have an amazing human Her name

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Speaker 1: is Caitlin Craws to Be and she is an author,

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Speaker 1: a speaker, she is an entrepreneur and you may have

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Speaker 1: heard of The Giving Keys. She is the founder of

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Speaker 1: that which we talk about. She's also just like a

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Speaker 1: cool person, one of the easiest people probably to talk to.

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Speaker 1: When we recorded this, she started setting up um like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a professional, normal professional, I guess, and then

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Speaker 1: as we got more into the conversation, she slowly just

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Speaker 1: kind of ended up laying down on her bed, and

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Speaker 1: it was just a nice conversation with somebody that just

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Speaker 1: immediately felt like a friend and felt like I could

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Speaker 1: just have a little talk with and all. Not to say,

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Speaker 1: she's amazing and I'm so grateful for her honesty and

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Speaker 1: her willingness to talk about her personal life. She actually

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Speaker 1: had a new book just come out called Every Word Matters,

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Speaker 1: The Key to an Intentional Life, and we talked about

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Speaker 1: it in the podcast conversation, So I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: spoil that, but I'm just letting you guys know that

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Speaker 1: if you like some of the things that she's saying,

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Speaker 1: and if you're gravitating towards her energy, like that might

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Speaker 1: be something you want to look into. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: she's just awesome and really grateful for her to show

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Speaker 1: up and be vulnerable. We talked about grieving and transitioning

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Speaker 1: as the world opens up new opportunities. She was very

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Speaker 1: honest with some personal things that she's going through currently.

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Speaker 1: Thank you Caitlin for being here. Um, you are somebody's

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Speaker 1: that I want to keep in touch with and hopefully

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Speaker 1: have you back again. And I hope you guys enjoy

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Speaker 1: this and I will talk to you guys on Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: And for now, here's my conversation with Caitlin. So I've

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Speaker 1: known about the Giving Keys because I don't know when

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Speaker 1: you started it, but I first saw it at Philanthropy

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Speaker 1: in a store in downtown Franklin, and I just thought

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Speaker 1: it was like a thing that they were doing, and

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, it's everywhere. So can you

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Speaker 1: give us, like a cliff Notes version of the company

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Speaker 1: why you started it? And I mean, just tell us

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Speaker 1: about it. So started Giving Keys almost thirteen years ago.

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Speaker 1: And I used to do music and acting, so I

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Speaker 1: grew up in that world. And then I started a

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Speaker 1: website called love Your Flaws Dot Combat Body Image Issues.

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Speaker 1: And then my first album one hundred years ago was

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Speaker 1: called Flaws about kind of encouraging women to love all

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Speaker 1: of our imperfections and all that good stuff. And then

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Speaker 1: I was on tour passing through New York in the

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Speaker 1: hotel room Key I thought was really cool. It was

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Speaker 1: like kind of big and obnoxious, and I put around

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Speaker 1: my necklace chain and got compliments on it. And I

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Speaker 1: was at a locksmith and had him asked if he

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Speaker 1: can engrave love your flaws on the key, and then

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Speaker 1: I saw all these other old used keys, and I said, oh,

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Speaker 1: can you do hope, love, faith, dream, believe all these keys?

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Speaker 1: So he did, and I started making jewelry out of

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Speaker 1: them and selling them on tour at the merchandise tables,

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Speaker 1: and I started selling out more than my CDs, so

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Speaker 1: I knew there was a missing link. A little by little,

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Speaker 1: I came up with this pay it forward movement, like

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Speaker 1: get the word that you need, but it's not just

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Speaker 1: about us, right um, pass it on to someone you

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Speaker 1: feel needs it more than you. So it kind of

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Speaker 1: trains you to keep your eyes open for someone else

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Speaker 1: who's hurting and going through something and not just focusing

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Speaker 1: on ourselves all the time. And then people started writing

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Speaker 1: me all these stories like so and so I was

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Speaker 1: about to come in suicide. I gave them my key,

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Speaker 1: So and I was going through a divorce. I even

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Speaker 1: my key. These and So I lost their job. I

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Speaker 1: gave them my keys. So on my space so I

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Speaker 1: was like, I need to make a website to store

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Speaker 1: all these stories read them the website that I knew.

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Speaker 1: I wanted the money to go to some sort of charity.

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Speaker 1: And then I met a young couple that was experiencing

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Speaker 1: homelessness on Hollow Boulevard. They lived in a dumpster in

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Speaker 1: a cardboard box. I had my aha moment. I was like,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute, I should pay you guys to engrave

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Speaker 1: the keys. So then I hustled and got them into stores,

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Speaker 1: and then they saved up money to get their own apartment.

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Speaker 1: And then we started partnering up with a bunch of

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Speaker 1: other transitional homes and other nonprofits around the issue of

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Speaker 1: homelessness and been able to employ over a hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty people that are trying to transition out of homelessness.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it's crazy. Okay, So I'm hearing you talk

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Speaker 1: about this. Obviously, this company is amazing. How it grew

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Speaker 1: is amazing, And my brain is going to you're on

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Speaker 1: tour and you're an artist and a musician, and then

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Speaker 1: this is happening. What happens is that transition of like

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Speaker 1: life path are you like, oh my gosh, how is that?

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Speaker 1: It sounds very success, all fast and like a good

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Speaker 1: way because it's helping others, Like where are you going

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Speaker 1: when all this is happening. Because I grew up in

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Speaker 1: entertainment and my parents did entertainment in the entertainment industry

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Speaker 1: and all that, I think that was like always the goal,

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Speaker 1: and that was like the value system out here in

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Speaker 1: l A. Like everyone moves here to try and become

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Speaker 1: successful in those fields. And so that was kind of

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Speaker 1: like what I thought I was going to do too,

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Speaker 1: and that was those were my goals to whatever moderate

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Speaker 1: success or things that I did get to do, which

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Speaker 1: I'm so lucky that I got to do. It still

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Speaker 1: was like you know, the giving keys. It was like

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Speaker 1: open heaven on the giving keys. And it was such

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Speaker 1: a difference of you know, and I mean and I

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Speaker 1: great things happened in the other worlds too at different

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Speaker 1: seasons of times. But then it was like when I

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Speaker 1: was still doing music and I had a record deal

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Speaker 1: and and this team behind me and and they were

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Speaker 1: wanting me to do more and more and more and more.

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Speaker 1: But then I was like always busy doing giving keys

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Speaker 1: things because it was just opportunity after opportunity of opportunities.

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Speaker 1: So it was like, oh gosh, well I have to

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Speaker 1: focus on all this because I have so many responsibilities

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Speaker 1: now that I have to take care of and follow

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Speaker 1: kind of where this is leading. So I never would

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Speaker 1: have thought a million years like, oh, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be a jewelry maker, like a nonprofit, you're a giftback

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Speaker 1: social entrepreneur. Like that was the furthest thing from my

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Speaker 1: mind when it makes me think about because that's just

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Speaker 1: a big change. It's changed, and it's something you've never

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Speaker 1: thought about. And with every change, change can be exciting,

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Speaker 1: but also there's grieving, and every single change exciting is

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Speaker 1: that something could be. And so for you, was was

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Speaker 1: there a process of you grieving what you thought you

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Speaker 1: were going to do? Yes, I'm totally just like I

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Speaker 1: lay down. Yes, I don't know if this is like

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Speaker 1: I we started this podcast that I was sitting and

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Speaker 1: now I'm just getting more and more comfortable. I feel

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Speaker 1: like you're so personable, and I'm just like, well, I'm

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Speaker 1: sitting in bed and now I just wasn't comfortable and

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Speaker 1: now I'm just laying down and you can see it

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Speaker 1: and it's fun and not because it's cozy and it's

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Speaker 1: COVID and Um, I do have jeans on. I was

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Speaker 1: gonna say, you're gonna be like, hold on, the need

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Speaker 1: to put on my pajamas. Let me put some pants on.

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Speaker 1: I have jeans on. We're better than me because I'm

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Speaker 1: wearing leggings. So yeah, it just looks like I have

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Speaker 1: on real clothes. What was your question? Again, this is

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Speaker 1: important questions. It's gonna lead somewhere. But with the grieving

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Speaker 1: process with the change, was there aggrieving? Did you know

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Speaker 1: you were going through grieving when you transitioned into this

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Speaker 1: exciting thing. Oh? I never knew this was gonna be

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Speaker 1: a thing for me. This is great, but also to

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Speaker 1: do that, I'm letting go of something. And I think

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Speaker 1: that one of the reasons change is so hard for

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Speaker 1: so many people, it's because there's always a grieving process,

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Speaker 1: no matter how exciting what we're moving into can be.

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Speaker 1: Was there that for you? Did you notice it? Oh?

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Speaker 1: For sure, for sure it was. There was definitely a

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Speaker 1: sadness and even just seeing my music team and you know,

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Speaker 1: record label people and manager and like my manage or

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Speaker 1: at the time, like sold his farm because he was

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Speaker 1: kind of banking on me taking off, and you know,

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Speaker 1: and and then I didn't and I was doing giving

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Speaker 1: keys instead, and just you know, he couldn't afford his

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Speaker 1: home anymore. Like stuff like that was just all went

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Speaker 1: into the grief of feeling like I'm letting all these

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Speaker 1: people down that I wasn't as successful as they thought

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Speaker 1: that I was going to be in music, and I

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Speaker 1: think and even myself too, and and so there was

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Speaker 1: that tension of Okay, God, I trust you that you

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Speaker 1: have a plan, and I did all I could do,

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Speaker 1: so there's I can't force anything to happen, so I

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Speaker 1: have to surrender and accept that this is the way

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Speaker 1: that it's going. And but it was definitely hard, and

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Speaker 1: I was sad, and I kind of wished that I

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Speaker 1: could do both, and I tried multiple times to do both,

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Speaker 1: but it was like I felt like so meant to

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Speaker 1: be that these were the doors that just kept opening.

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Speaker 1: So I just kind of had to surrender and accept.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it was definitely but there was so much

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Speaker 1: good coming from it. It felt the worth that I

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Speaker 1: was like, well, a point of doing entertainment was so

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Speaker 1: I could Growing up, I always say like, oh, I

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Speaker 1: want to have like a platform to give back and

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Speaker 1: say certain things that I'm passionate about to help people

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Speaker 1: and write songs to help people or you know, blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. But now I'm doing it and

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Speaker 1: it's just a different way. Yeah, And I think that's

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Speaker 1: cool for you to be able to listen to that

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Speaker 1: and like, Okay, I'm just gonna go where it feels

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Speaker 1: like I'm being led and like not resist this because

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Speaker 1: obviously this is something's coming of this and that is

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Speaker 1: the essence of that, like both and of like this

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Speaker 1: is this is good, it's it's sad and this is

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Speaker 1: so good. And I'm curious to what that was like

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Speaker 1: for you success wise, And I'm curious to where did

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Speaker 1: that even drive You mentioned the body image stuff with

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Speaker 1: in the beginning. Where does that come from? Because a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who are passionate about certain platforms have

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Speaker 1: a reason. Yeah. In my first book, I have two books.

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Speaker 1: The second one just came out last year, so exciting days. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In the first book, my friend, his name is Mike Foster.

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Speaker 1: He has a podcast to which is really cool. It's

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Speaker 1: called fun Things. I love that podcast. Yeah, I like

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Speaker 1: cry it on that podcast. I cried listening to that podcast. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so you know, he he said, he said the

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Speaker 1: quote in my book you teach best what you need

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Speaker 1: to learn, and I love that and it's so true.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, with love your flaws. That was a way

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Speaker 1: for me to try and love my flaws. And I

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Speaker 1: had a lot of body image issues growing up and

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Speaker 1: a lot of surgeries that went wrong that I had

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Speaker 1: all these scars and like femininity issues from them and

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Speaker 1: just like deep shame and you know, and it's something

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Speaker 1: I'm still, i think forever working through. But it's it's

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Speaker 1: such a beautiful process of healing and learning and growing

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Speaker 1: and you know, and this is going to be I

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Speaker 1: think forever until the day the day that I die,

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Speaker 1: and they're just gonna be getting more and more wisdom

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Speaker 1: and healing and revelation about this particular subject and I'm

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Speaker 1: sure a lot of other ones. But yeah, body image

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Speaker 1: issues was was always like a big, a big topic

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Speaker 1: in my therapy sessions well, and my specialty is eating

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Speaker 1: disorders and body image. So that's why I'm like that

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Speaker 1: sparked my attention with the Giving Keys. A lot of

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Speaker 1: is about like words and the power of words, and

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Speaker 1: so for you, what has been helpful in that area,

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Speaker 1: So starting with body image, because you probably know this

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Speaker 1: by the work that you've done. The words that we

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Speaker 1: choose when we speak to ourselves are so powerful, And

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Speaker 1: how did you use that as a way to like

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Speaker 1: heal through any of the things that you were struggling

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Speaker 1: with with any of that? Yeah, I always say the

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Speaker 1: way that my mind automatically kind of defaults to the negative,

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Speaker 1: and so I have to write positive affirmations down, whether

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Speaker 1: it's about myself or my day or my perspective, not

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Speaker 1: to just get through, but like to enjoy life at all.

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Speaker 1: It's so important the words that we use in the

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Speaker 1: things that we tell ourselves and all the negative tapes

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Speaker 1: that are kind of ingrained from habits and promos, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: a lot of us do have that like automatic Like

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Speaker 1: where we Go is like the icky side of life,

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Speaker 1: and it's a muscle. They're writing the stuff down, the

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Speaker 1: saying that they're repeating it. It's like one of the

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Speaker 1: things that I dread having to ask clients to do

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Speaker 1: because I know what they're thinking, because I know they're like,

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Speaker 1: that's not gonna work. What's that going to do? I

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Speaker 1: have nothing nice to say, or that just sounds cheesy,

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Speaker 1: or that it's always that's usually what I get. So

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Speaker 1: I'm like almost waiting for that to come before I

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Speaker 1: even request it. But the only reason I asked people

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Speaker 1: to do that is because I know it works, and

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of power in repeating the same thing

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Speaker 1: over and over again. The reason we believe that icky

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Speaker 1: stuff is because it's what's been repeated over and over

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Speaker 1: and over again, and we have to write a new story.

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Speaker 1: And for you, do you mind sharing like what were

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Speaker 1: some of the things that you did need to kind

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Speaker 1: of rewrite, Like what were some messages or stories that

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Speaker 1: you needed to rewrite about yourself or the world. Well,

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Speaker 1: for myself, I think I grew up in the church

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Speaker 1: and I was always you know, the purity thing was

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Speaker 1: it was a big movement and something that was always

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Speaker 1: very important to me. But I think because I had

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Speaker 1: particular body image issues in like the feminine departments of

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Speaker 1: I think I kind of hid in church as like

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Speaker 1: an excuse to stay pure, But really it was because

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Speaker 1: I was embarrassed. And so the word and the phrase

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Speaker 1: that I believed about myself that had the most potent

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Speaker 1: negative belief was the word I'm just disgusting. And that

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Speaker 1: was and I and I really got to the bottom

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Speaker 1: of like that was like my core belief deep down,

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Speaker 1: and so this is kind of comical. But because I

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Speaker 1: felt like such a non sexy central person, like that

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Speaker 1: was so foreign, I mean so uncomfortable for me. I

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Speaker 1: went to an old therapist a long time ago and

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Speaker 1: she said, well, because you have this negative belief about

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Speaker 1: yourself that you are disgusting and the unsexy and not

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Speaker 1: sensual and not feminine and all these things, She's like,

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Speaker 1: you need to make theef the new healthy belief, the

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Speaker 1: complete opposite, and it has to be very extreme, and

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Speaker 1: you need to tell to yourself one million times a day.

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Speaker 1: So my so my sentence that I had to tell

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Speaker 1: myself was I am the sexiest woman I have ever

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Speaker 1: seen in my entire life. And I was like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, I'm so uncomfortable with that, Like, like nothing

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Speaker 1: feels more uncomfortable and more untrue than that. But she

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Speaker 1: was like, act that way in the car, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you listen to your music when you're ordering your coffee,

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Speaker 1: flirt with the barista and act like the sexiest woman

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Speaker 1: you've ever seen in the world, over and over over.

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Speaker 1: And I remember just doing it for a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks like and really doing it. It really did start

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Speaker 1: to work, and I really did start to feel like

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Speaker 1: it's sexy, sassy, little you know. But then I stopped

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Speaker 1: because I forgot or got lazy, or life gets in

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Speaker 1: the way and I wasn't being I wasn't a routine

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Speaker 1: or habit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe it was that. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad you're saying that, because it is so true that,

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Speaker 1: like we create these all these self fulfilling prophecies. If

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Speaker 1: we believe something about ourselves, we have the power for

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Speaker 1: that to be true. The air about you that changes

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Speaker 1: how people are perceiving you. If you walk in somewhere

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Speaker 1: with like your shoulders hunch and like your head down,

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Speaker 1: people are gonna be like, oh, she seems unapproachable and

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Speaker 1: kind of like timid and scary. If you walk in

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Speaker 1: a room with your shoulders back and your head up

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Speaker 1: and smile, people are gonna like, she looks kind of cool.

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Speaker 1: I want to go talk to her. Like, So we

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Speaker 1: do have the power to transform that either way. But

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Speaker 1: it is uncomfortable and hard, like it's awkward. It's awkward

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Speaker 1: until it's not. How have you seen it work? The best?

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Speaker 1: When you have your clients do it like where where

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Speaker 1: where have you seen like the real change? Like you

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Speaker 1: mean like what kinds of people or how they how

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Speaker 1: they do it or what they do how long they

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Speaker 1: have to do it? Well, it's forever, but I I

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Speaker 1: mean it's but it's like it's something that I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you have to wake up and say how I really

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Speaker 1: encourage people to start this as the first thing you

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Speaker 1: do when you wake up is you write something kind

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Speaker 1: down about yourself or something exciting that you're looking forward to,

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Speaker 1: Like that's how you're gonna start your day. And then

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Speaker 1: also you end your day with something, whether that's a

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Speaker 1: gratitude or one thing you're you're proud of or grateful for.

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Speaker 1: And you might not believe it a d don't lie

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Speaker 1: to yourself. So don't just make a complete lie that

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Speaker 1: you never think will ever ever, ever, ever, ever in

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Speaker 1: a hundred million years come true. Find a little bit

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Speaker 1: of something that you can grab onto and then every

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Speaker 1: day you can transition that into more and more and more.

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Speaker 1: But it starts with one little thing. And do it

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Speaker 1: when it feels weird, like look in the mirror. I

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Speaker 1: do a lot of body image work, so a lot

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Speaker 1: of it it's like desensitizing yourself to looking yourself in

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Speaker 1: the mirror. It's gonna be really awkward and weird the

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Speaker 1: first probably a hundred times you do it, maybe, but

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Speaker 1: the more you do it. I think of it as

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Speaker 1: a river that you're creating. Rivers get deeper and stronger

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Speaker 1: the more that you flow water down them, and if

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Speaker 1: you stop pouring water, that is its source of water

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Speaker 1: that's going to dry up. And so either way you

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Speaker 1: have the power to create a really deep river over

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Speaker 1: here or stop that river over there. And that's the

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Speaker 1: metaphor I give people to use, and that I find

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Speaker 1: really helps people understand that, like, oh it is the

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Speaker 1: more I'm giving something energy, the more it's going to

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Speaker 1: come true. So every time you went in somewhere and

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Speaker 1: you're like, I am the sexiest person alive, you started

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Speaker 1: to believe it a little more because also you're getting data,

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Speaker 1: like you're getting feedback from people and data and responses.

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Speaker 1: People aren't running away from you and being like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god. But we create those big stories in our

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Speaker 1: head that like I'm I'm disgusting. I create a story

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Speaker 1: about how people are going to look at me and

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Speaker 1: think certain things or won't talk to me or X

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Speaker 1: y Z, and then because of the way I walk

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Speaker 1: into a room, I'm like, see, I told you so.

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Speaker 1: But I will say it's as simple as affirmations. That's

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Speaker 1: why I wanted to ask you. It's simple as affirmation sound.

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Speaker 1: It's probably one of the challenging things, most challenging things

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Speaker 1: for clients to act really do consistently. Why do you

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Speaker 1: think that is for me? I I'm like this, this

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Speaker 1: is just my personality where I'm like, oh, like like

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Speaker 1: meditation or mindfulness or stuff like that. I'm like, an

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Speaker 1: affirmation is not gonna make that big of deal. It's

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Speaker 1: not going to change my world. It's not like doing

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Speaker 1: this like big experiential therapy and a group that's gonna

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Speaker 1: like rock my everything. They're very simple things. They're not radical,

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Speaker 1: And I think that's why. It's because we all want

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Speaker 1: these radical changes. And I know I feel this a

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Speaker 1: lot with with clients that come in, especially new to therapy.

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Speaker 1: They want me to change their life in three sessions,

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Speaker 1: and they want this big radical experience when it's like

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Speaker 1: really simple and slow and builds on things. And that's

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Speaker 1: my experience personally and as a professional. But I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you felt that like when I want something

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Speaker 1: to change and I'm like I need to change now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it sounds like for you it wasn't that. I

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Speaker 1: mean it was hard, but you were like, Okay, i'll

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Speaker 1: listen to my therapist, which is nice to forget. And

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Speaker 1: then life happens years later, and then you know, and

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Speaker 1: then different seasons happened too, and then I get married,

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Speaker 1: and then you have kids, and I mean not everybody,

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Speaker 1: but I then was like, Okay, now I'm worrying about

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Speaker 1: other things instead or other securities. Well, and that's hard too,

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Speaker 1: because I would love for you to speak on that.

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Speaker 1: It's like you got married and you had kids, and

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Speaker 1: then like your your priorities shift, and how do you

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Speaker 1: maintain that? Like how do you maintain yourself and your

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Speaker 1: self worth and what you think of yourself because you

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Speaker 1: can get lost and all that, Like how do I

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Speaker 1: spend time making sure I'm okay? Um? I think it's

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Speaker 1: still a daily weekly. I don't know if the words battle,

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Speaker 1: but more like goal that I don't always accomplish. I'm

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Speaker 1: really all about like letting ourselves fail and letting ourselves

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Speaker 1: be messy and imperfect. And sometimes I go the pendulum

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Speaker 1: swings a little bit too much to that side where

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Speaker 1: I'm not doing enough for myself and the self care

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Speaker 1: bit and all of that. Like you said, I I

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Speaker 1: like think, like, don't really need to do a meditation.

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Speaker 1: I'll be fine, you know. But I just started doing

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Speaker 1: this little daily devotional. It's like a five minute Judas

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00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 1: Smith that is this guy my my sister in law

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Speaker 1: sent me there a little app or whatever. And I've

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Speaker 1: just been doing that five minutes a day in the morning.

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Speaker 1: And I have my kids like plopped down in front

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Speaker 1: of the TV just because I'm like, I need my

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Speaker 1: coffee and a little something in my brain before I

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Speaker 1: can really go there. And they wake up so early,

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Speaker 1: like at five, that I cannot get up before them,

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Speaker 1: Like I just can't. Um So, so I'm like, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna watch Daniel Tiger on PBS or there are two

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Speaker 1: minutes and I'm going to make my copy and do

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Speaker 1: my little devotional and set my intentions for the day.

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Speaker 1: And it really and I've only been doing it for

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Speaker 1: the last few weeks maybe, and I and I can

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Speaker 1: really tell a difference. So we talked about this a

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Speaker 1: little bit before. You are going through a huge transition

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Speaker 1: now with the separation of you and your husband, and

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Speaker 1: I mean that has to be another whole thing for you.

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Speaker 1: The routine you might have had is now shifting, and

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Speaker 1: one how are you doing? And to well, first answer

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Speaker 1: that question, how are you doing? Oh man? I mean

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Speaker 1: every day, an hour is different. So you know, look

432
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 1: at sha, this was not what I wanted. This was

433
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 1: literally my worst nightmare. But now that it's happened, I

434
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,160
Speaker 1: feel hopeful for my future. But you know, you can't

435
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 1: control other people and what they decide. And my husband

436
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 1: decided he wants to go another path in another way

437
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,200
Speaker 1: in his life that I obviously won't get into. But

438
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,159
Speaker 1: you know, and I have to work on, yes, grieving it,

439
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: feeling the feelings. I was devastated when it first all happened,

440
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 1: and the transition has been devastating, not only for myself

441
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,439
Speaker 1: but for the kids, especially when older, when my four

442
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: year old. So I'm okay right now, but I have

443
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 1: you know, when I don't have the kids and they

444
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,439
Speaker 1: go with him for a night or two, I you know,

445
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 1: have my bawling, my you know, you just cried out,

446
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,760
Speaker 1: because I think that's really important to do that, to

447
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 1: let yourself agree. But then it's I'm trying to focus

448
00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: on the positive. And there are a lot of other

449
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: good benefits that are coming from this time and this

450
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 1: new season that I'm weirdly excited about. Yeah, so I'm

451
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 1: kind of trying to focus on that as well. So

452
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 1: I'm doing I'm doing as well as I possibly can

453
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: do it with the situation. I wonder for you how

454
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: long it has taken you to like accept that idea

455
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: of like this is sucks, like this is not something

456
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,160
Speaker 1: I would have ever chosen. And also there are some

457
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 1: good things that are coming from this that I imagine

458
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 1: was not the first thought in your head. Yeah, no,

459
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 1: not at all. It's a daily practice, and I think

460
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: it's what's helped me a lot is the work that

461
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 1: I have done in the past with I go to

462
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: alan On. Alan On is for those of you who

463
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: don't know, it's like a twelve step program for people

464
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 1: that are in relationships with addicts or people that are alcoholics,

465
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 1: or whether it's your family member, parent, sibling, spouse, friend, whatever.

466
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: So I've been going for about were years and I

467
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 1: have a sponsor and we worked the twelve steps. So

468
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: much of that work is which I've been lagging. I

469
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 1: need to get on my chapter five when I mean, sorry,

470
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,120
Speaker 1: my step five. When I moved, I still have boxes

471
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: in my garage, so I think my step book is

472
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: in the garage somewhere, so I need to maybe find

473
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: it online or something, because I just don't have it

474
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 1: in me to go through boxes anymore. Um So, yeah,

475
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 1: so that's been really helpful, just like putting into practice

476
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: accepting and detaching from someone else and their their stuff

477
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 1: and and um that serenity prayer has been a game changer.

478
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,119
Speaker 1: God grant me the serenity to accept the things I

479
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: cannot change for changing things I can, and the wisdom

480
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 1: to know the difference. So that's been my kind of

481
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,400
Speaker 1: like anchoring favorite prayer. I wonder if some of those

482
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 1: like old messages, no matter what they were, that you

483
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 1: thought to to relearn in a different way, did they

484
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: pop back up as this was happening. Did you have

485
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 1: to battle a lot of negative self talk, like what

486
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,719
Speaker 1: were the story worries all up in your head? It

487
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: doubled down On therapy, I've been quitted two different therapists

488
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 1: a week. I'm like, if not now then when now was? Yeah,

489
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: I've been going to and both of us used to

490
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: actually give us marriage counseling too, which is fun because

491
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,360
Speaker 1: they know the situation and they I mean they know him,

492
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 1: they know me and all that good stuff. But one

493
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: of them, Tim, I'm doing E M D R with him.

494
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 1: I've never done it before, is my first time. So

495
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: I've done like four sessions and actually really impressed. Like

496
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: I've I've done a lot of therapy my Licole License

497
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: I was really young, fortunately or unfortunately and not sure um,

498
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 1: and I feel like it's just wow, like really getting

499
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: to the stuff I thought I had like known everything,

500
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,560
Speaker 1: I knew all of my issues and I've already you know,

501
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 1: but it's like, oh wow, it's like really interesting the

502
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: things that are coming up and that I'm kind of

503
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: realizing that I want to work on and need to

504
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 1: work on. And then my other therapist and it's a

505
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,600
Speaker 1: very different type of there, but she's more like she's

506
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: like this amazing like Grandma Vibe. I love these Mama

507
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: Bear Grandma Bear like like Christian mystic but like so

508
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: smart and just like I just love her brain. She

509
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: does a lot of stuff, but one of the things

510
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: that she's been having me do recently is writing down

511
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: my dreams and like kind of analyzing my subconscious and

512
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: it's been so good. Like like, I had this one

513
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: dream where I was in my grandparents backyard and I

514
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 1: have a pool, but the pool was that bright blue color,

515
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: like a like toilet water when you're cleaning a toilet.

516
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: And I was carrying these heavy bags and my little

517
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: girl who's one years old, her name's Love, she fell

518
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: into the pool and I was a little too far away,

519
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: and she was like wanting to get to me, like mommy, mommy, mommy,

520
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 1: and I was like too busy quote unquote like doing

521
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 1: something on the other side, which is something I already

522
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: I do, like feel bad about that happens in her life.

523
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: And in my dream, I I thought to myself, like, oh,

524
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: my bags are so heavy, there's so much stuff in them.

525
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: So maybe on one handle, help me get to the

526
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: bottom of the pool faster to like rescue her because

527
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: it's so heavy. But then the other hand, I don't know,

528
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: it's going to be so heavy to get back up

529
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: and put, you know, push my feet up. But I did.

530
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 1: I jumped in after her with my heavy bags, got

531
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: to the bottom of the pool. I got her, and

532
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: I pushed my legs up and you know, with the

533
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,639
Speaker 1: bags on my back and her and we got to

534
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: the top of the pool and then I woke up.

535
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: So I mean there's a lot in there of the

536
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: symbolism of like her talking about like the cleansing of

537
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: the toilet bowl water, you know. Um. But then also

538
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: she gave me homework to clean out my bags, which

539
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: I've only done half of, which I need to do

540
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: because I sometimes I like hoard a little bit too much,

541
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: Like I really need some things out in my bags.

542
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: And then also just when I have gone through some

543
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: other things challenges are circumstances that were happening in life,

544
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 1: she was like she would text me things like I

545
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 1: know you have it in you to push yourself off

546
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: from the bottom of the pool. You know. She'll just

547
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: like use that language now to describe which to kind

548
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 1: of encouraged me, which is really special. The thought of

549
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: having those bags and like the question of like do

550
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: I need these or I not need these? Should I

551
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 1: drop them? Should I keep them with me? That I mean,

552
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 1: that whole idea is just a whole thing that somebody

553
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: could process for a whole session in therapy, because I

554
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: think a lot of times in our lives we'd want

555
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: to have this finite answer for everything where why people?

556
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: That's how humans work through stories, and we need a beginning,

557
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: middle and and things need to be clear. And then

558
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: it sounds like you're in the stage of life where

559
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 1: it's like you're learning as you go and things are

560
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: shifting and changing. And I'm assuming, which I probably shouldn't

561
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: do as a therapist, but assuming that you kind of

562
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: want to know how am I going to get through this?

563
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: What is this going to look like? And have a

564
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: lot and there might be some questions you even have

565
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: in the ending of that relationship that you want answers

566
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: to and that that's just what popped into my head

567
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 1: because you're in a lot of unknown right now, is

568
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: what it sounds like. And how do you deal with

569
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: the unknown? Like how are you coping with? Like this

570
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: is different. I can't plan out a lot of things

571
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: right now, and the plans I've had are changing, and

572
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to focus on the hope of what

573
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: I could have on the other side of this, which

574
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: is a better marriage with probably someone else, or you know,

575
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 1: if a miracle happens, But in just either way, it's

576
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: going to be better than what I had, So that's

577
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: exciting to me. I'm glad to hear you use that word.

578
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,439
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite words out there, and I

579
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: have a weird relationship with it. But I think the

580
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: idea of like I'm holding onto hope and in a

581
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,959
Speaker 1: mess like that saves a lot of people, which speaks

582
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 1: back to like, I mean, even just your company, and

583
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: it founded on words being important, and I imagining that

584
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: you are are leaning into a lot of that right now,

585
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: Like the whole idea of how your company started in

586
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: is now twofold coming back to you and it's helping

587
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: you in the same way. Yeah, it's true. Even this

588
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: book that I just wrote. Now, I was recording the

589
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: audio book at the studio and Colin and I were

590
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,719
Speaker 1: right in the middle of selling our house, going through

591
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: this ration, and he came to the studio for me

592
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,959
Speaker 1: to sign the papers selling a house that we had

593
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: boked together. Was the first time ever buying a house

594
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: and all that, and and it was such an emotional

595
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 1: moment of signing you know, a guy there and the

596
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: notary and all this paperwork, and I signed it and

597
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: we hugged in the parking lot and bald like pried

598
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 1: and bald and I went right back in to record

599
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: this audio book, and every word in the book that

600
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,160
Speaker 1: I had written months prior was everything that I needed

601
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: to here, and it was speaking to me and helping me.

602
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: And even right now, you know, I'm on this podcast

603
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: pretty probably sound pretty you know, I don't know the

604
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: word as negative, but just like you know in it

605
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 1: and it's a hard time, but it's like, I know

606
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: my book is not like negative, Nancy. It's very like

607
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: these are things that have worked and that do currently

608
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: help me right now. Well, I don't think you sound

609
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: negative at all. And the way that you're processing this

610
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: and talking about this now you mean that word hope.

611
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: You sound hopeful, which is not a negative thing. Like

612
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: I just think that's a cool thing that you wrote

613
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: something that like obviously you believe all that stuff because

614
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: now it's helping you, like, and I just think that's

615
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: so cool that we can be And this goes back

616
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: to what you said about the quote from my fosters.

617
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: We can be our best teachers if we let ourselves

618
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: think about how easy it is to give feedback to

619
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: friends and family. And I always ask the question to

620
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,479
Speaker 1: clients of like would you say that to yourself, like

621
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,719
Speaker 1: what would you say to a friend. We have the

622
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: best things to say to everybody else, but then we

623
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 1: can't say them to ourselves. And you're in this process

624
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: of like, Okay, I'm actually smart and I know what

625
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: I need to do. I just have to tell myself

626
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: those things. So I think that's very cool, and honestly,

627
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: like I feel for all of that, because it sounds

628
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: like it has been pretty hard and it will be

629
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: good and it can be good now in the middle

630
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: of all that. Now, speaking of all of that stuff,

631
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: and you mentioned the new book a couple of times,

632
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 1: can you just tell us a little bit about that.

633
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: Every chapter we dive into a core word, like a

634
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: Given Keys word hope, love, faith, dream, believe, fearless, let go, peace, love,

635
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: and then the last one is pay it Forward. So

636
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 1: I think you know, in all these words of the

637
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: Given Keys, you know, all the words that we've sold

638
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: for years and years, and all these words that people

639
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 1: are wearing around their neck, which is awesome, and I

640
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: know it means so much to them and to me

641
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: and to everybody who gets these keys. But but this

642
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: book really is just a deeper dive into these words

643
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: and focusing on you know, one chapter, one word each chapter,

644
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: and at the end having little journal prompt, which is

645
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: my favorite part, to be able to give us opportunities

646
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: to write down, like what our biggest fears are and

647
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: what makes us come alive and um encouraging. Encouraging the

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00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: readers too, you know, so into whether it's their creative

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00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: side or they're oh yeah it's it's it's just so

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00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 1: good and juicy and covers and what we all need,

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00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: which are all of these words. I think that's why

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Speaker 1: The Giving Keys has been so successful, because we do

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Speaker 1: sell all these different words. And no matter who you are,

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00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 1: everyone needs these words, whether you're rich, are poor, successful

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00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: in the movies, living on the streets, everyone needs everyone

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00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: needs love. I love that sentence. No matter who you are,

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Speaker 1: no matter I mean your success, you're not success, your money,

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00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 1: where you live. Especially in the climate of now, it's

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Speaker 1: like we are learning, like the most important things aren't

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00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 1: all of the things. It's like what you said, like

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00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: words and language, and so that does sound cool. I

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00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: love a good journal prompt. So I love that thank

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Speaker 1: you for doing this, thank you for thank you for

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Speaker 1: being here. How can people find you if they're like

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00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: I like what you're saying the best places Instagram. Um,

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Speaker 1: I mean if you're on Facebook, I'm there too. But

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Speaker 1: at Caitlin Crosby ce A I T L I N

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00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: C R O S B Y The Giving Keys, at

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Speaker 1: the Giving Keys, is there a best play used to

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00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: buy your book? It's available everywhere Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, Target.

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Speaker 1: But we do have a website lending page which is

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Speaker 1: every Word Matters book dot com. It's it's the link

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Speaker 1: in my bio. Okay, well, Caitlin, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for being here and having this conversation, and obviously I

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Speaker 1: look forward to reading your book and continuing to follow

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00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: along with you on Instagram and now in real life.

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Speaker 1: So thank you so much