WEBVTT - Steph Paynes 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:13.400 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Podcast. My 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:18.279 guest today is Steph Payne, guitarist and leading force of 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:22.400 the band les Zeppelin. Steph, good to have you on 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:23.759 the podcast. 0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:27.840 Hey, thanks, Bob, it's fantastic to be here. Thanks for 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:28.280 having me. 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:31.800 Let's start from the beginning. Is Steph Payin's your real name? 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.839 Yes, it's my real name. But there is a small 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:41.199 little difference, and that is there's a why in it. 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:44.720 When when I was born there was no why, so 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:47.320 it was P. A. N. E. S. And that's the truth. 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:50.479 And you're the first one to hear it. But it's 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:52.880 a funny story, which if I go into it. 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:54.840 Well tell the story. We're here, We're here. 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:58.520 This is all right, Okay, okay. It sort of ties 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.600 in because I put the Y in my name after 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:06.120 I moved to England the first time, which is a 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:12.560 long time ago, right after college, and I had found 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:17.200 myself working, you know, trying to be a big rock 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.800 star and make it and do all this stuff because 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:24.679 you know, British Invasion rock was my favorite thing. So 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.039 I thought I have to go to England. And while 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.919 I was here, at that point, I started to write 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:36.160 for the music press, and I was writing for the 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:40.640 NME actually, and when I got my first story published, 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:45.760 I realized, because I was paranoid about working without a 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:49.480 work permit, that if I put a Y in the name, 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:54.200 they could not prove that it was me, because there's 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:56.520 a why in the name and all my passport there isn't. 0:01:57.480 --> 0:01:59.840 So that was my thinking and ever since it became 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:04.520 my name and it stuck. So there's a wine. 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:07.920 Okay, there's a lot to unpact there, but I'm going 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:12.239 to go back to original theme. Les Zeppelin would imply 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:16.120 that it's an act of lesbians. What is the truth? 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:19.800 Oh, I knew you were going to get there. I 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:22.200 didn't think it would be second. I thought it would 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:27.240 be first. We have always had a don't ask, don't 0:02:27.280 --> 0:02:33.000 tell policy since the beginning of the band. Lots of 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.800 reasons for that, but I figured I basically, in a nutshell, 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.680 I'd get into trouble either way, So don't ask, don't tell, 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:46.800 and we welcome speculation. We're fine with whatever anybody thinks. 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.520 And people actually like to guess, so it's fun. 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:55.840 Okay, you yourself have been married, have children, You certainly 0:02:55.840 --> 0:03:01.560 have lived a heterosexual lifestyle, So the question because naming 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:05.720 it led Zeppelin, was that to gain attention or was 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.240 that because that was the easiest play on the name 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.840 led Zeppelin? How did you come up with it? Long? 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:15.919 Okay, I will tell you my mother came up with it. 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:24.520 Believe it or not. My mother, this is true. She 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:29.440 was an English professor, and she was fantastic with puns 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:34.680 and you know, writing. I mean, it was wonderful. She 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:36.880 used to write poetry and everything. But she was the 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:40.320 quickest person with a pun that I'd ever met. And 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.080 we were sitting around the table and I had already 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.880 started this, I mean, had this idea to start this band, 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.000 and I was gung ho, and we were trying to 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.800 think of names, and there were all sorts of really 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:55.320 bad names being put on the table as bands, do 0:03:55.520 --> 0:04:00.280 you know, cover your tablecloth with bad names? And she 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:06.520 just turns to me and says, lez Zeppelin. Now, I 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.920 had never heard my mother even say the word lesbian 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.960 okay out loud. But it was the most brilliant thing 0:04:14.000 --> 0:04:17.000 I ever heard. I just that was it. There was 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:19.760 no question in my mind that that had to be 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:22.520 the name of the band. And I think, honestly, I 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:26.760 think it's like the best band name ever. Maybe not ever, 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:27.600 but it's up there. 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:31.000 Okay, for those people unfamiliar with les Zeppelin, how would 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:32.200 you describe the band? 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:42.159 Okay, it's you mean trying to describe led Zeppelin in 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:42.920 and of itself. 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:48.040 And someone goes to a led Zeppelin show, someone listens 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:49.880 to your music, what are they getting? What is the 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:52.160 ethos of the band? What is it you're selling? 0:04:53.240 --> 0:05:04.279 Okay, they will get a powerful, very passion very spontaneous 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:11.000 show that is all around the songs of led Zeppelin. 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:15.159 We play the songs as they are written most of 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:19.200 the time, but we improvise where they used to improvise. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:25.400 And it's kind of an amazing thing because we focus 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:32.159 more on the spirit of the band, i would say, 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:40.240 and the incredible combination of musicianship that made them who 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.040 they are, which is why this band has to be 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:47.800 so organic, because we are playing together as musicians like 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:52.479 they were and trying to achieve that special sort of 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:57.919 magical moment of intensity, and that really is our goal. 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:02.880 And you know, sometimes I'll play a solo. I mean 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.320 a lot of the solos I play at this point 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.599 are you know, in Jimmy Page's style, but they're not 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:12.279 exactly what Jimmy played, and my hope is maybe he 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.560 would have played it at some point, but it's much 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.680 more evocative, I think, to. 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:20.240 Go for. 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:26.080 That essence of the band, and I think people react 0:06:26.120 --> 0:06:28.280 to it feeling like they've really been to a led 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:32.680 Zeppelin show, much more than if we just copied everything 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.800 they played, which is frankly no interest to me. 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:40.279 However, having seen the act, it's not like going to 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.719 see Bob Dylan today and saying, you know, he played 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:46.279 a song that's famous and I didn't recognize that. The 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:50.840 songs generally speaking, are very faithful to the originals. 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.760 Yes, because you have to be. I mean, it's brilliant 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:58.240 music and you have to be faithful, like, for example, 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:02.000 the Ocean. Well, let's take that song. It's kind of 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:06.080 such a perfect package. I never changed the guitar solos 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:09.000 for that. We never change the arrangements. But you know, 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:12.560 we're only four people, so we play it live like 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.360 they played it, So our renditions are how they played 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.920 it live. We don't have extra people on stage to 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.280 fill all the guitar parts. We're not trying to replicate 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.120 the albums. But you know, a song like the Ocean 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:30.440 is very, very true to form. It'll sound like it 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.560 sounds on the record without the extra guitar tracks. It 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.160 sounds like they played how it sounded when they played 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:36.520 it live. 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:40.760 But just to nail this down, what is different is 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:45.240 primarily is solos, etc. You're going to the show, You're 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:47.880 if you close your eyes, theoretically you say, okay, this 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:52.920 is led Zeppelin live. Yes, would you agree with that? 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:57.360 Yes, that's my goal. It works, though it succeeds. 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:00.520 How'd you come up with the idea? 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:05.040 Pow? Oh gosh, it's really kind of boring. It's boring, Bob, 0:08:05.040 --> 0:08:09.120 It's really boring. I mean, frankly, I just love the 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.560 music of Led Zeppelin. I mean it was a pure 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:17.080 act of indulgence. And I was between gigs. I had 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:22.480 spent a time playing with Ronnie Specter. That had been 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:27.480 my last gig, I guess, and I was in the 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:32.920 mood to really dig down and get intense with the guitar. 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:38.000 I frankly hadn't really studied Jimmy Page. Before i'd studied 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.360 Jimmy Hendrix, I'd studied a lot of jazz, I'd studied 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:46.120 other players, but Jimmy was fascinating to me, and I 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:52.400 really wanted to see if I could get into his zeitgeist, 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.560 you know, So I thought, this will be fun. Why 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:57.679 don't I just you know, if I could be in 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.200 any band in the whole world, what would it be 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:05.240 led Zeppelin? So I thought, you know, I took the 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:08.840 leap like a little bit of an idiot and said, 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:14.440 why not, let's just play led Zeppelin? And I sort 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.040 of set off to do it, and that was really it. 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:21.880 Just I figured, we'll play a gig once a month. 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:26.000 I'll get a couple of girls together, because I knew 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:31.240 that it would be better with all girls, and maybe 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:34.240 we'll make fifty bucks and have a beer and it'll 0:09:34.280 --> 0:09:36.960 be really fun and kind of get all rocks off. 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.680 But once I started the band, it turned out to 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:47.960 be a much more work than that, way much more work. 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:54.160 And then the level of interest in the group was immediate. 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:59.040 This is twenty twenty four. I'm sorry, two thousand and four. 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:04.520 It's been twenty years actually, and I realized I was 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:05.760 onto something. 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.320 Let's start with the work. You say it was much 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:11.040 more work? Can you go deeper there? 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:17.360 Oh? Yeah, okay. First I had to find three other 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:21.080 people girls I wanted, girls I had been in one 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.760 other all girl band that was amazing and very powerful, 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.280 so I had no doubt that girls could do it 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.079 and probably better. Where were they? 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:33.680 Oh well, we just have to stop there for one second. 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.679 Why probably? Why probably better? Or was that just an 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:38.640 offhand comment? 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:41.600 It was kind of offhand, but it was kind of 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.920 the way I felt. I just my latter The one 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.880 all girl band I had been in was called one 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:52.920 nine hundred Bucks, and it was in the nineties, so 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.559 it was kind of like a Jane's Addiction kind of band. 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.400 We were compared to them a lot, and we were 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.920 compared to and I'm telling you, Bob, it was the 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:06.840 most powerful band I've ever played in. And I've played 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.480 in a lot of bands with a lot of guys, 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.360 not that they can't do it. There was just something 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:18.679 about that band and the intensity of it, So in 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.000 my mind, I had no doubt girls could do it. 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.520 Can they do it better? Well? Now I think that, 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:29.800 But then you know, I think my band does it better. 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.680 I'm going to stop you for one second. Since led 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:37.280 Zeppelin is an all male band, macho males here that 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:41.240 they can't use the word girls. They must use the 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:45.959 word women. From your perspective, What is your take on that. 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:51.080 Girls is fine with me? I don't. I have no 0:11:51.240 --> 0:11:57.000 interest in that kind of semantic volleyball. And I would 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.720 take you to task on saying that led Zeppelin were macha, 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.920 because I think they were pretty far from macho. I 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:10.360 think there was a lot of posturing and a lot 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:14.960 of sort of you know, peacock feathers, strutting and all 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:19.800 the rest, and it was very sexual. But if you 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:25.760 think about how led Zeppelin looked like girls kind of. 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:31.800 If you think about the beautiful texture and dynamics of 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:37.360 their music, from gentle sort of Celtic folk through to 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.200 a whole lot of love or something like that, it 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:46.120 runs the spectrum. And I never consider it cock rock, 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:51.640 as many people have said, or particularly macho, but somehow 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:55.000 it has that reputation. I mean, maybe you can explain it. 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.120 No, I think those words came out of my mouth 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.120 and I was doubting. I'm good for you for calling 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.800 me on it. But let's go back to the narrative. 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.280 So you say, Okay, I'm going to do this. First, 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:07.600 I have to find three other girls. So what did 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:07.920 you do? 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.360 I just word of mouth. I just asked everybody and 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:17.240 I mean everybody, like people who were bankers, people who 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:22.840 were in restaurants. I was like hairdressers. I just figured 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:25.640 if I put the word out, someone will know somebody. 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:29.320 And in fact, that's exactly how that band came together. 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:34.440 Somebody saying, oh, my friend, my hairdresser in fact plays drums, 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.800 and my brother went to a party and called me 0:13:37.880 --> 0:13:41.000 up and said, I think I found your singer like that, 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.440 and that the drummer. I knew what the drummer from 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:49.520 the all girl band that I mentioned, and I called her. Initially, 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.719 her name was Chip English, and she went off to 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:56.160 play with the Luna Chiics, if you know who they are. 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:02.080 But Chip is an incredibly intense drummer, and she joined up. 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.360 She was gung ho for about a month and a 0:14:05.400 --> 0:14:08.800 half until she realized how much work it was, and 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.120 then it was I'm not doing this. This is too 0:14:12.240 --> 0:14:17.720 much practicing. So I then, you know, found another drummer 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.480 word of mouth. But yeah, it was all sort of. 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.680 It was a little magical, Bob, I got to tell 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.120 you a little bit dark and magical. 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.280 From the moment you say I'm going to start looking 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.200 till you find the other three players. How long a 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:34.360 period of time is that. 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.040 I would say about a month and a half, two months. 0:14:39.520 --> 0:14:42.040 Okay, So do you find the players? What's the next step? 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:52.920 Practice? Practice, practice, practice. It's kind of like location, location, location, 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:58.440 I mean, and this is the thing. It's not can 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:03.040 you play it technic glean? Okay, that's I mean, there 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:04.840 is some of that. There is a lot of that too, 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:07.520 because it's crazy, some of some of Jimmy's riffs. I 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:11.680 mean they're insane, right, So there is that, But when 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.840 you begin to play the music, you realize how much 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:23.640 else there is, how many other little details and in 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:28.360 you and sort of musical innuendos and the feel and 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.640 the way you have to lay back in all of 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:35.600 those things and then play together. I mean, it's it's 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:43.560 a lot. And you know, I think once we started going, 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:51.120 because we're girls and I'll say girls because we were girls. Yeah, 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:56.080 because we were girls, I knew that we had to 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:01.600 be twice as good as any guys, no question, because 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.480 we would be met by instant skepticism, which we were, 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:13.320 so we really you know, wood shedded is that the term. 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:17.880 We just practiced for six months until we dared to 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:18.520 play a gig. 0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:23.120 Wow, So how did you decide you were ready. 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:29.880 Well, I think we got through a set list the 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:34.360 songs we could play. There was power in the band. 0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:37.640 I mean we'd go to a rehearsal studio and people 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:41.960 would sit outside the door and listen in, you know, 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:45.320 including the guys that worked there. So we started to feel, Okay, 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.960 this is cool. We got it. You know. We just 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:54.000 had to jump off at some point. So there was 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:57.520 also another little detail, and that is I was nine 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:04.520 months pregnant for our first gigs. Okay, yeah, so you 0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.000 know how Jimmy holds the guitar sideways like I have 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:11.000 a side saddle. I was doing that. So I figured, 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.119 let's let's get in a couple of gigs before I 0:17:14.200 --> 0:17:17.920 get this little creature out, and then we can go 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:22.000 gung home. So that we had to be ready at 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:28.359 some point to play a few gigs. 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:35.199 Okay, you do a couple of gigs, you have a child. 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:38.119 How long until you start playing again? 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.639 About a month and a half. 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:49.080 Oh, very quickly. Okay, so yes, let's go back before 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.720 you have the baby. Tell me about the first couple 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:55.199 of gigs, how you get them. But the reaction is 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:56.960 how you experienced it. 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:04.040 You know, we were a bit. It was a bit scary. 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:08.720 But we played out of New York City because I 0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:13.240 didn't want to play in New York City yet. And 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:17.240 there were these small clubs up in Connecticut because our 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:21.800 singer at the time was from Avon, Connecticut. So we 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.840 played this place called Sully's, and we played this place 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:29.960 called the Hungry Tiger, and they were small clubs, and 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:36.639 people went nuts, I mean instantly. And I'm telling you 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:39.040 those gigs were not very good. I mean, you know, 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:42.800 by standards now, I mean there was a lot that 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:46.920 was wrong with the sound, if I'm going to be 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:51.240 picky and playing it correctly. But there was this energy 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:56.040 and there was a desire to see four girls playing 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.960 led Zeppelin. I mean it was just like everyone wanted 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:06.000 didn't see it. So the clubs were full and people 0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:07.399 went nuts. 0:19:09.280 --> 0:19:13.280 Okay, especially today you're talking two thousand and four. That's 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:15.800 you know, when things really start to change from the 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:19.320 old music business to the new music business. Hey, you 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.080 formed the band, b rehearsed the band, See you're ready 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.440 to do it. How'd you get the gigs? Did you 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:29.800 personally call? Was there an agent? Was there a manager? 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:31.760 How did you get the gigs? 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:40.240 Right? So? None of the above. Yes, I personally called 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:45.000 the singer called because she knew the guy at Sully's 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:50.919 or whatever. We had no agent, no manager, just the 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:57.359 four of us with lots of opinions, and it was 0:19:57.640 --> 0:20:00.120 it was just like that, like any kind of baby 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:05.439 band starting out, super fun. We were so excited, you know, 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:09.640 when a hundred people showed up and we made two 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:11.879 hundred and fifty bucks, I mean it was a lot, 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:17.480 three hundred dollars or something. And within I would say 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:25.720 a year, we had an agent, and shortly after that 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.600 we were approached by managers the whole gamut, and it 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:33.080 was one point we had a business manager, we had PRP, 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:36.520 we had everything. You know, it just sort of snowballed. 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:38.399 But at first, now. 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:44.080 Okay, you have the baby, you start playing again, Walk 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.520 me a little bit slower. How many gigs you're playing, 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:48.920 How you get the agent, and how it starts to develop. 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:56.399 So mostly at the beginning, it was maybe one gig 0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:01.640 on a Saturday or Friday. Occasionally we would play. As 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:05.240 we progressed, we would start to play match them up, 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:07.840 you know, maybe we could play here and there. But 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.280 that really started to come a little later once we 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:15.159 had an agent. So they were kind of one offs. 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:18.320 Sometimes we'd have to stay in a hotel or something, 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:23.760 but they were all fairly local. So we rented a van, 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.840 you know, you know, like a mini van. I don't 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:32.560 even know if they exist anymore. It's an suv or something. 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:38.040 But and we piled our stuff in and drove ourselves up, 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:43.520 played this crazy intense music for an hour and a half, 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.840 then packed it up and drove home. So it was 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:53.320 a lot. It was a lot, but it was so rewarding. 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:57.879 Okay, it started as a lark. When in your brain 0:21:58.040 --> 0:21:59.720 did it turn into more than a lark? 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:10.760 I think that pretty quickly. I realized that I had 0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:17.960 something on my hands. You know, I've spent years previous 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:22.840 to this, early on in trying to crack the music business. 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:27.600 I had a million original bands. You know. For a 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:31.800 while I was out as a singer songwriter, I was 0:22:31.800 --> 0:22:36.080 playing another bands, and everyone was just trying to get 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:41.000 to that point where they'd even get an agent. When 0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:47.080 les Zeppelin came out, everyone wanted to hear it. The 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:51.520 promoters did not even ask when I mean, they just 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:56.359 it was an automatic. Yes, it was sort of like 0:22:56.560 --> 0:23:02.760 the easiest thing. And that was unusual. It was you know, 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:05.800 when things are meant to happen, they just happened. There 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:11.040 was no resistance. So I realized pretty fast, Wow, this 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:16.439 is different. This has potential to grow a bit larger. 0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:21.000 Did I think it would become what it actually became. No, 0:23:21.080 --> 0:23:24.240 not in a million years. I mean it's been twenty 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:29.439 years I've been doing this, and we've had unbelievable experiences 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:33.680 doing stuff that bands like ours should never have done. 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:36.560 I think, but what are you talking about? 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:40.160 Not never have done, not never have done? But would 0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:43.280 ha had never done? Is what I meant? Like playing 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:47.879 major festivals like we played at the Metropolitan Museum of 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:56.200 Art for the Play It Loud exhibit. We toured all 0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:59.640 over the world, Japan, we released records in Japan. Eddie 0:23:59.680 --> 0:24:05.000 krane Or produced our first record. You know, crazy surreal 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:07.480 stuff like that. And of course Jimmy came to our gig. 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:13.639 It's just a lot of you know, Bonneroo. We played 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:16.520 at Bonnaroo and it was I don't think there had 0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:21.600 been a cover band like ours at Bonnaroo ever, and 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:23.800 it was tens of thousands of people. 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:27.600 Okay, so you start in two thousand and four, it's 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:33.280 twenty twenty four. Has this been a continuous forgetting COVID 0:24:33.280 --> 0:24:37.119 which is its own world? Has this been a continuous upswing? 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:40.200 Have there been ups and downs? And what is the 0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:41.760 status of the act today? 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:47.080 Ah? How much time do we have? 0:24:47.640 --> 0:24:48.680 Time? 0:24:49.160 --> 0:24:54.439 Okay, No, it's lots of ups and downs, lots, you know, 0:24:54.560 --> 0:25:03.439 like anything. I mean, various things happened that that involved 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:07.840 just dips in the you know, we were soaring for 0:25:07.880 --> 0:25:10.800 a while, and then it just seemed to settle down. 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:14.920 And then I had a complete lineup change, and that 0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:20.840 stopped me in my tracks. And I could have just 0:25:20.880 --> 0:25:24.560 stopped at that point, except I didn't think we were finished, 0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:26.919 so I had to get a whole new band together. 0:25:27.720 --> 0:25:30.159 That band was great. That continued for a while, So 0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:35.040 I've had lineup changes along the way, and you know, 0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:40.720 I think generally speaking, we've been very lucky to be 0:25:40.800 --> 0:25:46.840 able to tour for twenty years and have audiences and 0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:52.320 make money and continue in that, and that's never really dipped. 0:25:52.600 --> 0:25:56.040 It's just that it's sometimes it may have been a 0:25:56.040 --> 0:26:02.640 little more you know, crazy and maybe popular than others, 0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:06.679 but a lot of stuff changed during the life of 0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:10.520 the band, Like where you used to have newspaper articles 0:26:10.560 --> 0:26:13.480 in radio, which we did a lot of. All of 0:26:13.480 --> 0:26:18.200 that disappeared, and I think it took there was some 0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:22.480 time to get used to how to operate in this 0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:28.159 new sort of music business paradigm with online stuff and 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:31.320 social media, and you know, I think a lot of 0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.480 people struggled. But we went through that change and it 0:26:36.640 --> 0:26:38.560 you know, it was a little bumpy here and there, 0:26:38.600 --> 0:26:43.240 but generally speaking, we managed to work. Right now, this 0:26:43.400 --> 0:26:47.200 band that's together has been together about six years, so 0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:53.240 it's it's an incredible group. And you know, every lineup 0:26:53.320 --> 0:26:59.600 had its beautiful qualities. I think this lineup was, without 0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:04.680 doubt that best musicianship, no question, and it's very sophisticated. 0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:09.600 Okay, bands have arcs. Was the fall off in publicity 0:27:09.640 --> 0:27:13.720 and radio because it was no longer a novelty or 0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:15.800 was it a change in the marketplace? 0:27:17.760 --> 0:27:21.640 Change in the marketplace? There were no radio stations. They 0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:26.600 were dropping, dropping like flies. And if you toured somewhere 0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:28.840 in the country, you know, used to try to set 0:27:28.880 --> 0:27:33.320 up a studio radio thing you'd play, you know, going 0:27:33.359 --> 0:27:36.720 to California or something and then talk about it. But 0:27:37.119 --> 0:27:41.800 all of that stuff disappeared, you know, and newspapers it's 0:27:41.880 --> 0:27:46.119 sort of nobody if they did stories. Nobody was really 0:27:46.160 --> 0:27:53.680 reading newspapers much. So I think it was it wasn't us. 0:27:53.760 --> 0:27:56.119 We just had to figure out a different way to 0:27:56.440 --> 0:27:57.359 market ourselves. 0:27:58.040 --> 0:28:01.280 Okay, so you coasting at this point or are you 0:28:01.400 --> 0:28:05.359