Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's
Speaker 1: the Thing from My Heart Radio. Every other week this fall,
Speaker 1: we will be airing a rebroadcast of some of my
Speaker 1: favorite episodes from our archives. This week we're featuring two
Speaker 1: super novas from the world of classical music, acclaimed soprano
Speaker 1: Renee Fleming and the reigning virtuoso of the violin, Itzac Proman.
Speaker 1: First my interview with Itzac Proman from two thousand nineteen.
Speaker 1: This is it sac Perlman's exquisite vibrato on Bach's first
Speaker 1: violin Sonata. He was mature by the time he made
Speaker 1: this recording, thirty years into a career year that started
Speaker 1: before his bar Mitzvah. Perlman doesn't like the word prodigy,
Speaker 1: but it's hard to avoid. At three, he was practicing
Speaker 1: scales on a toy violin. At four, he was studying
Speaker 1: with a great master. At thirteen, he was whisked away
Speaker 1: from his native Israel to the United States to be
Speaker 1: on the Ed Sullivan Show. He won admission to Juilliard
Speaker 1: that same year. From prodigy to master and finally national treasure.
Speaker 1: For sixty years, his life was a blur of world tours,
Speaker 1: and TV specials, playing for the Queen, and given a
Speaker 1: place of honor on the program for Obama's inauguration. Yet
Speaker 1: it's not Perlman had a difficult childhood, stricken by polio
Speaker 1: in the war torn early days of israel statehood. Now
Speaker 1: he gives back at every opportunity, including through the proman
Speaker 1: music program founded by his wife Toby. The summer school
Speaker 1: is located on idyllic Shelter Island, giving talented kids of
Speaker 1: every background the chance to study with the world's greatest musicians.
Speaker 1: You'll meet Toby and a couple of former students at
Speaker 1: the end of the program. You'll even hear the students
Speaker 1: play a virtuoso movement from Mendelssohn's Actete. The whole crew
Speaker 1: joined me live on stage at the n y U
Speaker 1: Screwball Center in Greenwich Village. I always ask people who
Speaker 1: have a career similar to your career, if you understood
Speaker 1: they have career similar to Mike. Well, not really, I
Speaker 1: actually know there aren't many. There aren't many, but anybody
Speaker 1: but anybody who was a young person who especially in
Speaker 1: this world during where they cultivate them very young, and
Speaker 1: in sports too, where they get these kids when they're
Speaker 1: ten years old, and they kind of know that they're
Speaker 1: heading to the NBA or the NFL or whatever. But
Speaker 1: you're a very young child, and I'm wondering, do you
Speaker 1: know what you're going through when you're a young child,
Speaker 1: or you're too busy doing it to understand what you're
Speaker 1: inside of when you were getting shot through? This rocket
Speaker 1: did become the famous well when I would look when
Speaker 1: I was young, Uh, my parents thought that I had
Speaker 1: a good ear because I could repeat everything, you know,
Speaker 1: by singing it. And then I said I want to
Speaker 1: play the violin, and I think they told me that
Speaker 1: I had a nice sound. So that was the, if
Speaker 1: you want to call it, the unusual thing about the
Speaker 1: way I played. I had a nice sound. You were
Speaker 1: playing on what didn't you like? A toy violin? Or
Speaker 1: But I just started with a toy, which I didn't like,
Speaker 1: so I quit that, and then I was playing on something.
Speaker 1: I don't remember what it was. It wasn't anything spectacular.
Speaker 1: I started really when I was like almost five four
Speaker 1: four and three quarters almost. You know, why what made
Speaker 1: you do I want it? I wanted I like the sound.
Speaker 1: I love the sound of the violin. I heard it
Speaker 1: on the radio, and I said, that's what I want
Speaker 1: to do. Simple, that's what I want to do. And
Speaker 1: and there's no explanation. You know, everybody has a different
Speaker 1: thing that they hear and it sort of grabs their imagination.
Speaker 1: And violence sound was that and I think it was
Speaker 1: hyper So it was pretty good for grabbing the imagination.
Speaker 1: You know, at what age do you've started a little
Speaker 1: tougher with them with their how old? Well, look, everybody
Speaker 1: has their own sort of schedule of development. You know.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you hear somebody at the age of twelve who
Speaker 1: just sound basic, not very very good, but you hear
Speaker 1: something there, and so you have to know what's to
Speaker 1: say and what not to say. I'd like to just
Speaker 1: insert that. You know, what's the great secret of a
Speaker 1: good teacher is not only knowing what to say, but
Speaker 1: knowing what not to say, and especially what not to say.
Speaker 1: When somebody that has great gift and great musical musical
Speaker 1: natural nous and those that have that great gifts in
Speaker 1: that naturally leave them alone. Do you leave them alone? No? No,
Speaker 1: you don't want to hurt them. No, it's not their feelings,
Speaker 1: it's you don't want to fox around. You know, you
Speaker 1: don't want to, you know, just let the natural ability
Speaker 1: to natural talent develop and usually things get better as
Speaker 1: you grow older, you know, without having to really nitpick
Speaker 1: with everything. And that's that's I find is a danger,
Speaker 1: because you know, when the teacher has such incredible talent
Speaker 1: in front of them, you know, they want to give
Speaker 1: you their old so then they become too picky. Leave
Speaker 1: it alone, Just leave it alone. During what years did
Speaker 1: you study with gold Guard? I studied with her from
Speaker 1: the age of five until I was thirteen. You studied
Speaker 1: with for eight years, eight years, and then you came
Speaker 1: to the United States to do Sullivan when you were
Speaker 1: thirteen years old. Then when you came to do so
Speaker 1: I find that believing. When you came to do Sullivan
Speaker 1: and you're thirteen years old, did you have any idea
Speaker 1: who Sullivan was? That's what your first idea. It's a
Speaker 1: weird exactly. No. No, I didn't know how how you
Speaker 1: looked or anything. I just I just in Israel they
Speaker 1: talked about because when we came to Israel to audition
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of people to go on his show.
Speaker 1: They said there they didn't call him Sullivan. They called
Speaker 1: him Sullivan that's Sullivan. Sat Sullivan. Uh, that's Sullivan, that's Sullivan. Oh, television,
Speaker 1: I said, okay, television. At the minute I heard television
Speaker 1: said I mean so I so I auditioned, you know,
Speaker 1: and then I was chosen. You know that there was
Speaker 1: there was sent people over to audition musicians. Yes, Israel, Yes,
Speaker 1: because he wanted at Sullivan wanted a show only of
Speaker 1: the isra Eli pard of my accent, only of the
Speaker 1: isra Eli people. So it was a variety great Jew
Speaker 1: and coming back to the homeland and the kids. Ever, well,
Speaker 1: there's some people thought his name was at Solomon, but
Speaker 1: we changed to at Sullivan. It might have but but
Speaker 1: you know, so the whole show was an Israeli variety show.
Speaker 1: You've seen this show. You know he had everybody had
Speaker 1: a monkey dancing, and then he had somebody playing the violin.
Speaker 1: And so in this particular case, it was a pair
Speaker 1: of folk singers that there was to know that we
Speaker 1: didn't have topo and we didn't have them, but we
Speaker 1: had a ballet dancer was fourteen. We had a coloratura
Speaker 1: soprano from Yemen. I think I was in the Department
Speaker 1: of Human Interest. Story or chubby story I don't know
Speaker 1: what I was what I was, but I was cute,
Speaker 1: I think, sorry, very cute. I was cute. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much, Thank you so cute. I know when you
Speaker 1: come over you've never been to the US before, your
Speaker 1: mother comes with you. Yes, and you perform on Sullivan. Yes,
Speaker 1: you remember what that was like to win the show.
Speaker 1: It was slightly exciting. Uh, I didn't know, No, it
Speaker 1: was it was very exciting, you know, and so I
Speaker 1: I kind of played and it was very It was
Speaker 1: over very quickly, you know, because I did the last
Speaker 1: moment of the Medicine Concerto and they cut it down
Speaker 1: to about I think two two minutes and forty five
Speaker 1: seconds because that was it. And uh, and he introduced me.
Speaker 1: He was a lovely gentleman, really very very nice. Is
Speaker 1: that what happened after you did Sullivan? Uh? We went
Speaker 1: on a tour in the US, The entire group that
Speaker 1: did Sullivan. We went on a on a tour long months. Yeah,
Speaker 1: about three or three or four months. Yeah. Yeah. And
Speaker 1: at the end of the and at the end of
Speaker 1: the tour, I went well, the main thing the challenge
Speaker 1: was to get into the Juilliard School, and that was
Speaker 1: one of it it was it was it was that a
Speaker 1: plan for you to go to Juilliard. Yes, when you
Speaker 1: were back in Israel, before Sullivan, before before Slight, it
Speaker 1: was a dream to go to Juilliard, but Sullivan made it. Yes,
Speaker 1: it was a very Juilliard. And there was a teacher
Speaker 1: there who taught Julia that I heard about in Israel,
Speaker 1: by name of Galamian. And so we said, one of
Speaker 1: these days, maybe you'll study with glam and Ivan Glaman.
Speaker 1: Yet his assistant at that time was Dorothy Delay, and
Speaker 1: she came and heard me play, and she thought that
Speaker 1: I had a good chance, had a good sound. I
Speaker 1: had a good sound. You know that that was my
Speaker 1: forte is the sound. But then you were about fourteen
Speaker 1: thirting half fourteen run around the same sound. So what
Speaker 1: was it like for you? You never lived in New York.
Speaker 1: And again this idea of being like shot out of
Speaker 1: a cannon to have the spectacular career, this big ticket career.
Speaker 1: You want thirteen years old, you want Sullivan, You're touring
Speaker 1: the country, You're gonna go to Juilliard. What was your
Speaker 1: recollection that was it intimidating or you don't have time
Speaker 1: to think about that? I didn't really think about it
Speaker 1: because it wasn't really look it wasn't like a professional career.
Speaker 1: It was a specialized career, you know, in other ways
Speaker 1: to play for It was an Ed Sullivan concert. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like I was playing a recital someplace, you know,
Speaker 1: or I was making my debut in Carnegie Hall or
Speaker 1: anything like that. It was a specialized kind of concerts,
Speaker 1: you know. And used to play um also, I used
Speaker 1: to play for Jewish benefits, you know, for the u
Speaker 1: J And they knew about me, you know, because the
Speaker 1: whole organization, the Jewish organization knew about this Sullivan program.
Speaker 1: So they used some of the people for fundraising. And
Speaker 1: I was, you know, sometimes I was I would be
Speaker 1: called at the telephone. I would be hired to do
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes or ten minutes at the end of the fundraising,
Speaker 1: you know, and I would appear probably like eleven o'clock
Speaker 1: at night, you know, and I would play the Nygun
Speaker 1: Bay Block and the Flight of the Bumblebee and that
Speaker 1: was it. And then I would leave and and I
Speaker 1: would get I would get paid, you know, and it
Speaker 1: was it was great, you know. I played while the
Speaker 1: people were eating their desserts. And of kosher food and
Speaker 1: things like that. It wasn't the same people liked. One night,
Speaker 1: you do Flight of the Bumblebee, and somebody says he
Speaker 1: was better at Jerry's bar mitzvah, so much better. I
Speaker 1: never did bar mitzvah's. I never did bar mitzvahs, and
Speaker 1: I didn't and I didn't do weddings dding no Vedic's absolutely.
Speaker 1: You know, now, when you leave and you come to
Speaker 1: to the United States, when you left for the Sullivan trip,
Speaker 1: was it assumed you were going to go home? What
Speaker 1: did you kind of know? You knew you weren't going home.
Speaker 1: I knew that I was. I was going to stay.
Speaker 1: And my dad stayed for about a year in Israel
Speaker 1: and finished selling the apartment and thus in the business,
Speaker 1: and then he came and joined us. I even remember,
Speaker 1: you know, I did not see my dad for a year,
Speaker 1: and the only way to get in touch was through letters.
Speaker 1: And then a bit later on, you know, maybe after
Speaker 1: about five, six, seven, eight months, we actually were able
Speaker 1: to arrange for a long distance call from New York
Speaker 1: to Tel Aviv, you know. And at that time, so
Speaker 1: you're talking about nineteen fifty nine, so it was like
Speaker 1: ten o'clock in the morning, you know, on the phone
Speaker 1: rings and I hello, huh hello, that's the connection, you know,
Speaker 1: that was the connection. And you know we had absolutely
Speaker 1: and we had in our street where I lived, we
Speaker 1: had no phone. So what we had was there was
Speaker 1: a grocery store that had the telephone. So whoever want
Speaker 1: to make a long distance called, we'll go to the
Speaker 1: grocery store and we pick up. So that's that's what
Speaker 1: you knew you were going to stay. Yes, yes, I
Speaker 1: learned the language from watching TV and you know, listening
Speaker 1: to the Yankee baseball. Spoken very little English and now hardly.
Speaker 1: I took a class of English in Israel. I think
Speaker 1: I failed. But it's amazing how quickly you learned, you know,
Speaker 1: when you hear the language around you all the time,
Speaker 1: and you were you went to Julian without family years.
Speaker 1: Let's see, until I think nineteen or I was nineteen
Speaker 1: or twenty, I think, because I because I still I
Speaker 1: remember still uh doing answerts and having to go to class,
Speaker 1: and you know sometimes I was late to a class
Speaker 1: and I got hell to pay, you know, because I
Speaker 1: just took a flight from Los Angeles. Give me a break,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. But you didn't go an
Speaker 1: English class. You know you have to be there. So
Speaker 1: but I was, you know, so I did both things
Speaker 1: for a while and then I graduated. And where do
Speaker 1: you think your sound comes from? I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I really don't know. It's it's something that I hear.
Speaker 1: You had polio old. I had pol when I was
Speaker 1: four and three quarters. So do you find that music
Speaker 1: become you imbue that with even more of your being
Speaker 1: in your spirit because you were limited in the things
Speaker 1: you could do as a child. I don't think. So
Speaker 1: I'm getting everything wrong with you everything, but that's not it.
Speaker 1: But but you're batting the los good. But you're doing good,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, because you know no, it's no, seriously,
Speaker 1: I just I don't think so. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 1: I couldn't say to you, well, let me see how
Speaker 1: I'm playing without napolio, and now le's see how I'm
Speaker 1: playing with the polio. I can't. I can't see what
Speaker 1: I want. But I'm wondering if you that Okay, Sorry,
Speaker 1: I mean giving you such a hard time. So I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry. I mean, I knew this was coming. I've
Speaker 1: been around you a few times, it's always it's always
Speaker 1: an obstacle. Course, but anyway, the the but but you know,
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is is that do you think the
Speaker 1: spirit of the person is that relevant? No? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I love to watch people who are famously like whether
Speaker 1: it's there actors or or people in sports, and sort
Speaker 1: of try and guess what kind of people they are
Speaker 1: in private, you know, and uh, being good and being
Speaker 1: a wonderful person and being a sort of an agreeable
Speaker 1: sympathic a kind of person is not necessarily together. You know.
Speaker 1: I remember my wife always, you know, sometimes we go
Speaker 1: to a concert and we hear somebody who's absolutely amazing,
Speaker 1: and I said to become on, let's go backstage and
Speaker 1: say hello, and she said, I'd than not. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be disappointed all the way this
Speaker 1: person plays. Just let's let's not do it. Let me
Speaker 1: just relax and just enjoy it. Uh. You many many
Speaker 1: people who conduct, and I'd love to get your opinion
Speaker 1: of this. Many people who conduct are people who have
Speaker 1: good careers as a soloist. They played typically the violino,
Speaker 1: the piano, but they don't necessarily have great careers. And
Speaker 1: then but someone taps them on the shoulders there, or
Speaker 1: you keep time very well, and they moved them on. No.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I mean, every every one that I
Speaker 1: would talk to would say that. To me, I'd say, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, doti this one they say. Somebody walked up
Speaker 1: to me when I was like ten years old and said,
Speaker 1: you keep time very well, and they moved them into
Speaker 1: the conducting program. What happened, They moved into the viola section.
Speaker 1: M that's our ad for the show. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I might study that. Viola jokes are no longer applicable
Speaker 1: because the level of viola playing has really risen seriously,
Speaker 1: so that you said should be that too. No, it's
Speaker 1: really viola jokes. You know, used to be that the
Speaker 1: level was a little bit below, but right now it's brilliant.
Speaker 1: I mean, so many brilliant viola players. So it's not
Speaker 1: but it's still funny, you know, violin legend. It's a
Speaker 1: Pruman has a special place in his heart for the
Speaker 1: New York Pilharmonic. He and then music director Alan Gilbert
Speaker 1: teamed up for the Phil's opening Galla a few years ago.
Speaker 1: Here films our guest soloist. It's a filman followed by
Speaker 1: music directors an filmat Alan Delbert Gilbert found out he
Speaker 1: got the job from the Phil's president, Zarin Meta, after
Speaker 1: a particularly miserable bedtime for his toddlers. We had had
Speaker 1: a torturous night and they'd finally fall on sleep, and
Speaker 1: I got a call from Zarin Meta just after they
Speaker 1: had fallen asleep, and he said, I'd like to invite
Speaker 1: you to be our next music director. I said, my
Speaker 1: kids just fell asleep. I can't talk to him. But
Speaker 1: then I called him back and we had scene in
Speaker 1: a movie where guys like more than being the music
Speaker 1: director of the Philharmonica, I want my kids to go
Speaker 1: to sleep. Clink totally. He will. We all know the
Speaker 1: madness of that. The rest of my conversation with Conductor
Speaker 1: Alan Gilbert at Here's the Thing dot Org coming up.
Speaker 1: It sucked Perman on Alan and Gilbert's art, what makes
Speaker 1: a great conductor? Plus his wife Toby Perlman on their
Speaker 1: music school and the next generation of great masters, takes
Speaker 1: on Mendelssohn and my questions. This is Alec Baldwin and
Speaker 1: you were listening to Here's the Thing. It sacked. Perlman
Speaker 1: didn't bring his famous Strata Varius. He says playing takes
Speaker 1: more effort now than it used to. As you get older,
Speaker 1: everything becomes more difficult than more demanding. Uh oh, are
Speaker 1: you kidding me? But you know, if you do a
Speaker 1: great piece, you can do it over and over again
Speaker 1: and no matter how I mean for me. I mean
Speaker 1: a perfect example is debatedpen Violent Concerto, which is not
Speaker 1: getting any easier as you get older, because but it's not,
Speaker 1: but it's very, very difficult when you're young as well.
Speaker 1: It's I call it when when my students start the piece,
Speaker 1: I say welcome to the lifetime journey, because that's what
Speaker 1: it is. You know, you start to play and it's
Speaker 1: pretty good, and then you played again, and you played
Speaker 1: again and you grow up with it. So that's that's
Speaker 1: what music is about. In the minute you think musically
Speaker 1: like that, especially when you repeat something you're on the
Speaker 1: right track. Instead of saying, oh, I have to do
Speaker 1: that again, but you know, you have to look at
Speaker 1: the music and you have to say, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be yet another experience. You know, it's it's gonna be
Speaker 1: one way or one or another way, but it's not
Speaker 1: going to be a repetition of what I did a
Speaker 1: week ago or a month ago. When you want to
Speaker 1: sit down, assuming that you do this, I don't want
Speaker 1: to assume. But when you want to listen to someone
Speaker 1: else play the violin that you admire and you admire
Speaker 1: their sound, give us an example of somebody you listen
Speaker 1: to for pure tone. The first person that comes to
Speaker 1: mind is Friz Chrysler. You know. You you listen to
Speaker 1: old recordings of of his and you think, you know
Speaker 1: those days that you know, there wasn't there wasn't the
Speaker 1: great advancement in technology and so and that it's that
Speaker 1: you you hear scratches, you hear the tone, and you say,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that is something unbelievable, you know, or
Speaker 1: you know, menu And had a fantastic sound. I mean,
Speaker 1: everybody had a different kind of sound, but sometimes sounds
Speaker 1: it's apples and oranges, you know. I mean, but that
Speaker 1: the first person that that I hear of that kind
Speaker 1: of sound is his. You conduct, yes, and the when?
Speaker 1: When when did that they? And why it began? I
Speaker 1: tell her it's very funny. It began with the Proman
Speaker 1: Music program. Uh my wife who started this whole thing.
Speaker 1: She said to me, we're going to have a string orchestra,
Speaker 1: could you coach them? So I didn't think of myself
Speaker 1: as a conductor. I thought myself as a coach. So
Speaker 1: I picked up at pencil and conducted with the pencil,
Speaker 1: you know, because if you conduct with the baton, you're
Speaker 1: a conductor. With a pencil, you're more of a teacher,
Speaker 1: you see that, I think. And anyway, so that's actually
Speaker 1: when it started and I got some interesting again. I
Speaker 1: got some nice sounds from the orchestra. Conducting I find
Speaker 1: very mysterious, you know, because you can have four or
Speaker 1: five conductors who are absolutely excellent, and each one gives
Speaker 1: you a downbeat, and the orchestra will sound different with
Speaker 1: each What do you attribute that to? I have no idea,
Speaker 1: Thank god, what do you think makes a good conductor?
Speaker 1: Oh well, obviously knowing the score and knowing all of
Speaker 1: this things, but in the final analysis, there is a
Speaker 1: mystery as to what makes somebody conductor phrase in the
Speaker 1: orchestra play a certain way. I don't understand that. You know,
Speaker 1: a great conductor should understand what he or she wants
Speaker 1: to hear from the orchestra. So if I do, let's
Speaker 1: say a bit of a Brahms symphony. What do you
Speaker 1: say to a great orchestra who have performed that hundreds
Speaker 1: of times? How do you get the orchestra to hear
Speaker 1: pop up up and say, hey, that's really good stuff,
Speaker 1: as as as opposed to I again, you know, So
Speaker 1: that's that's that's the difference. Well, it's your it's my
Speaker 1: own rendition of what I want, what I want to hear. Now,
Speaker 1: tell everybody the idea. How did the school started? It
Speaker 1: was Toby's idea, my wife Toby's idea. It was her
Speaker 1: dream because we met in a school in a summer
Speaker 1: program during during Juliard, sure, of course, and so she
Speaker 1: started this whole thing, you know. And it was actually
Speaker 1: twenty five years ago. So this are on fifth anniversary
Speaker 1: for the program music program, and yes and uh and
Speaker 1: it was it was basically for strings, and I think
Speaker 1: we had kids come to our house in Long Island
Speaker 1: and practice scales and you know, like at eight o'clock
Speaker 1: in the morning, you said, Toby thought that was the
Speaker 1: greatest alarm clock. And but we are now in Shelter Island.
Speaker 1: The people, whether whether it's the young program or the
Speaker 1: eighteen program, are they is it free of charge? And
Speaker 1: you're raising money to pay for the whole people. We
Speaker 1: never we never, we never refused, We never refused for
Speaker 1: lack of funds. We give a lot of people scholarships
Speaker 1: and scholarships and some uh some more some lessons so on.
Speaker 1: Then some if they want to pay, they can pay.
Speaker 1: But it really doesn't matter because, you know, the the
Speaker 1: expense of the program is so that even if we
Speaker 1: were to charge everybody equally, will still be in the
Speaker 1: in the red severely, severely, believe me, severely. But it's great.
Speaker 1: And the program has not grown on purpose. You know,
Speaker 1: we started with about thirty eight thirty nine kids and
Speaker 1: we still have thirty a thirty nine kids for the
Speaker 1: little program. And it's and and it's amazing, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: It's very difficult to describe unless you go there and
Speaker 1: just give the experience. We have kids playing twice a
Speaker 1: week works in progress we call it whips, you know,
Speaker 1: where they try new pieces in front of an audience
Speaker 1: and so on. It's it's it's great and I've been
Speaker 1: listening during the summers. I don't play concerts. I just
Speaker 1: teach there and with with other great, great faculty, and
Speaker 1: we have you know, the philosophy of a lack once
Speaker 1: you're in that program, a lack of competition between the kids.
Speaker 1: You know, they all support each other, and for me,
Speaker 1: that's so important. You know that that you know when
Speaker 1: somebody plays well, they're truly happy for them, and when
Speaker 1: somebody messes up, they go and they console them and
Speaker 1: they really feel for them. It's it's it's a it's
Speaker 1: a real Family's so important, it's a great father. It's
Speaker 1: our problem's wife, Toby Proman, please come and join us, Toby,
Speaker 1: and please welcome Rachel Lee Friday and Mandal Gooseby. No, no,
Speaker 1: we're gonna bring out six other people who've been playing
Speaker 1: the violin since they were eighteen months old. Let's get
Speaker 1: them out here, and then when we're done performing, we're
Speaker 1: gonna end. We're gonna end with this music. Can they come? Great?
Speaker 1: That was itsa Proman, his wife and Proman Music program
Speaker 1: founder Toby and their brilliant violin students Rachel Lee Priday
Speaker 1: and Randal Gooseby. The Artists who made up the octet
Speaker 1: were Rachel and Randall, plus Stellick Shan and Kenneth Renshaw
Speaker 1: also on violin, Charley Smith and Joshua Chale on viola,
Speaker 1: Nico Olarte Hayes and iach N Sue on cello. The
Speaker 1: piece was the presto from Mendelssohn's arctet Opus twenty in
Speaker 1: E flat major, recorded live at n y US Screwball
Speaker 1: Center in Manhattan, and now My Conversation with Renee Fleming
Speaker 1: from two thousand twelve. Renee Fleming has a powerful effect
Speaker 1: on people. Conductor Sir George Shoalty described the opera singer's
Speaker 1: voice as double cream. Garrison Keeler said she made his
Speaker 1: nostrils twitch. New York chef Daniel Blue created a signature
Speaker 1: dessert to honor her. But Renee Fleming is down to earth.
Speaker 1: When the People's Diva, as she's been called, went to
Speaker 1: Paris to rehearse Handle's Alcina, one of her favorite roles,
Speaker 1: she spent most of the first week looking for playgrounds
Speaker 1: for her two young daughters. Renee grew up in Rochester,
Speaker 1: New York, where both her parents were high school music teachers.
Speaker 1: During the first two years of her life, while in
Speaker 1: her playpen, Renee would listen while her mother gave singing lessons.
Speaker 1: A few years later, Renee organized a barbershop trio with
Speaker 1: her younger sister and brother. One might say Renee Fleming
Speaker 1: was born into music. Often refer to myself as an
Speaker 1: indentured servant because we grew up with it. My parents
Speaker 1: were both We all sang all the time. You take
Speaker 1: a family cross country trip and be singing the road
Speaker 1: signs and in harmony, and I thought everybody did that.
Speaker 1: I just like, oh, well, this is what families do.
Speaker 1: Your friends would get in the car with your family
Speaker 1: and was like, with these crazy Flemings exactly singing to
Speaker 1: the trees, missing to the exit signs. And we talked
Speaker 1: about singing. Did you feel like this was your way
Speaker 1: to communicate with your own parents? Well, interestingly, my dad
Speaker 1: was a big jazz fan. My mother didn't bring music
Speaker 1: home much at all. She wanted to break from it
Speaker 1: when she came home. Other than when we performed, she
Speaker 1: prepared us. You know. I think her idea was that
Speaker 1: we would be the next one traps. You know. My father,
Speaker 1: thank god, put the kabashion then and said, I don't
Speaker 1: think so. Um. Let me guess your mother was the
Speaker 1: competitive one. She she was very type AI, you know,
Speaker 1: she's check and my my grandmother and my aunts were
Speaker 1: all like this. I mean, they would come over and
Speaker 1: they just the work ethic was unbelievable. I think I
Speaker 1: work hard. No no, no, no no no. They used to
Speaker 1: look at me and say, you know, and a you're
Speaker 1: you really need to step it up. And I see
Speaker 1: myself doing the same thing with my two daughters. So
Speaker 1: I can't. I sort of can't help it. But the
Speaker 1: music thing, you know, it was just so natural for us,
Speaker 1: and my way of rebelling against it was to find
Speaker 1: my own music. So I became a composer in middle school.
Speaker 1: I started writing songs and then play piano, played piano,
Speaker 1: I played guitar. And what kind of music did you write?
Speaker 1: You're like Johnny Mitchell was sort of singer what we
Speaker 1: call now singer songwriter, But I also wrote art songs
Speaker 1: that I actually notated and wrote out that other people sang.
Speaker 1: In that time, women weren't particularly encouraged to be composers.
Speaker 1: In a different setting, that might have been the direction
Speaker 1: I would have gone in, because I loved it and
Speaker 1: it suited my temperament much better than performing. I was
Speaker 1: so shy. Performing was so far away from whoeverly was
Speaker 1: um A specific opera, the first opera if you can
Speaker 1: recall because I remember the first movie I went to
Speaker 1: see in a movie theater. What was the first opera
Speaker 1: that you became a you know, I would say, gosh,
Speaker 1: sure Angelica. This is what I remember because my mother
Speaker 1: performed it and we were in the first row, and
Speaker 1: this is the Eastman Theater. So first of all, I
Speaker 1: was incredibly impressed by the theater, this massive chandelier, you know,
Speaker 1: all the velvet. I mean I took up violin because
Speaker 1: of the velvet in the case. So we were nothing
Speaker 1: if not superficial. I guess, you know. I didn't really
Speaker 1: know anything about the story, but she was crying, and
Speaker 1: she was crying because she was singing about, you know,
Speaker 1: her her dead baby and wanting to be joined with
Speaker 1: her baby again, and looking at her three children in
Speaker 1: front of her. Somehow, I think that really impressed me.
Speaker 1: Did you ever imagine at that time, it in the
Speaker 1: middle school and you're seeing this piece, that that would
Speaker 1: be a path for you, that you would end up
Speaker 1: where you are now. Gosh, No, nobody really asked kids
Speaker 1: in those days, what do you want exactly? What would
Speaker 1: you like to do? You just went along. I know
Speaker 1: so many people in my generation who applied to three
Speaker 1: colleges and never gave it much thought. And really, you know,
Speaker 1: the way we raised children now is world's apart from
Speaker 1: how we were raised. How do you feel, we said,
Speaker 1: how do you feel? My parents couldn't give a damn
Speaker 1: how I felt. No, Really, the only thing I thought
Speaker 1: that I wanted to be was the president. So there
Speaker 1: was i'd say, a colonel of ambition there in the
Speaker 1: world I was in. It was, you know, doctor lawyer,
Speaker 1: or a few of a more working class background, a
Speaker 1: job that gave you a security and a pension, the
Speaker 1: Long Island Railroad, the police department, the fire department. You know,
Speaker 1: you learned very quickly to choose from the menu actor
Speaker 1: was not on the menu that was submitted to me. Well,
Speaker 1: I wanted to muse again, like my parents, So that's
Speaker 1: another thing you did. You followed your parents because you
Speaker 1: couldn't think of anything else to do. And then when
Speaker 1: the singing became more interesting, and particularly jazz um, when
Speaker 1: I really found myself through singing with it in a
Speaker 1: club every weekend for two and a half years, then
Speaker 1: my parents got nervous. Oh, it's so hard, it's too competitive.
Speaker 1: What happens when you're you're writing songs, popular music. And
Speaker 1: whenever you know where you said singer songwriter, whether it's
Speaker 1: Carol King or what have you, and you're singing jazz
Speaker 1: in nightclubs, in Rochester clubs, they're knowing Potsdam where I
Speaker 1: went to undergraduate. Score is Potsdam a hotbed of jazz.
Speaker 1: It's a college hotbed. And the drinking age was twenty one.
Speaker 1: So yes, so we all spent a lot of time
Speaker 1: in clubs. In this particular Algiers Pub had very high
Speaker 1: quality jazz all the time. And the guys that I
Speaker 1: worked with are are all working musicians. It was an
Speaker 1: extraordinary education for me in many many ways. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's how we learned. That's how I was able to
Speaker 1: embrace performing. Because Illinois Jacked heard me sing in pot
Speaker 1: Salmon said why don't you come on the road, but
Speaker 1: come to New York and yes, it's great tenor saxophone
Speaker 1: player was really going to put me on the map
Speaker 1: as a jazz singer. And I just knew I didn't
Speaker 1: have the courage. You could have been a popular singer.
Speaker 1: You could have what where do you take the term
Speaker 1: you're just saying, I'm going to operate? Is it now?
Speaker 1: What happened. Had I grown up in New York City,
Speaker 1: the singer songwriter thing might have opened. Doors might have opened.
Speaker 1: I mean, I sang on television in high school winning
Speaker 1: some talent show, literally playing a song that I wrote.
Speaker 1: Making the decision to go on undergraduate school. That's sort
Speaker 1: of solidified. Graduate school was where so you went from costom,
Speaker 1: you went back home. Then I tried to pursue jazz,
Speaker 1: and and that didn't work. Despite the fact that Eastman
Speaker 1: had a phenomenal jazz department, I just couldn't get in.
Speaker 1: I couldn't break in. So, you know, it was really
Speaker 1: circumstance that pushed me towards classical music, and eventually I
Speaker 1: really embraced it. And the other thing is I realized
Speaker 1: it was much more suited to my temperament. I liked
Speaker 1: being in the practice room. I liked studying. I enjoyed
Speaker 1: wrestling with this instrument harder. I don't know that it
Speaker 1: was harder, but it was more internal, kind of cerebral work.
Speaker 1: You know. The interesting thing about jazz or anything popular,
Speaker 1: you see, it was a very personality driven and I
Speaker 1: just didn't have that. I think I do now. Interestingly,
Speaker 1: I've come out of my shell. I mean when I
Speaker 1: tell people I was extremely shy that nobody believes me
Speaker 1: now to overcome yes, exactly. You know. I found a
Speaker 1: lot of comedians to be extraordinarily serious and and draws
Speaker 1: withdrawn sometimes, So yeah, I think sometimes we overcome things
Speaker 1: by going after the very thing that really a loud
Speaker 1: to us. So certainly my case that was it. I
Speaker 1: would observe friends who were comfortable performing and I would
Speaker 1: just try to act like them, So that was that worked.
Speaker 1: It's an impersonation. Someone said to me, how do you
Speaker 1: perform in the theater, like why is the theater so
Speaker 1: soothing to you? And I say, because I know that
Speaker 1: for two and a half hours and know exactly where
Speaker 1: I'm going to be, exactly what I'm going to say,
Speaker 1: exactly what you're going to say, and exactly how a
Speaker 1: roomful of people are going to react to what I say.
Speaker 1: And you don't feel performance pressure because I had terrible stage, right.
Speaker 1: I do feel the pressure in rehearsal. I feel the
Speaker 1: pressure to unearthed, to get down to it and get
Speaker 1: the work done. And if I feel that we got
Speaker 1: the work done, then it's orgasmic, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: go out there in front of the only thing. I'm like, well,
Speaker 1: how's everybody doing? You know, I'm like, really, I'm very happy, comfortable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they're gonna like it if I go out there.
Speaker 1: And I'm a little bit hesitating because I'm thinking, I
Speaker 1: don't think we got it. But you do two years
Speaker 1: at Eastman and graduate degree there, then what happens? And
Speaker 1: I went to Juilliard, Uh did postgrad. I could be
Speaker 1: a doctor or a lawyer as long as I was
Speaker 1: in Juilliard at the time the American Opera Center so
Speaker 1: now the Juilliard Opera Center, I believe it was a
Speaker 1: post graduate program. I was cast as Mozetta in Labo
Speaker 1: m So I came here to sing a role. You
Speaker 1: get free lessons, coaching, all of the support that we
Speaker 1: couldn't otherwise afford. You know, you're a beginner. And I
Speaker 1: worked in Rocket Feller Plaza for a law firm, pay
Speaker 1: my rent and everything, and it was a great year.
Speaker 1: It was a phenomenal year. Say to yourself, why didn't
Speaker 1: I do this sooner? Yeah? Yes, because I was so happy,
Speaker 1: and I was running around the city like a maniac,
Speaker 1: so active. And then I took a full right grant
Speaker 1: and studying in Germany and that was hard. How were
Speaker 1: you there in Frankfort. It was important. It was probably
Speaker 1: one of the most crucial pieces in my education because
Speaker 1: it was so challenging. Number one challenging. I didn't speak
Speaker 1: a word of German when I went there. I was
Speaker 1: in the whole chield for musique and was not accepted
Speaker 1: into the opera department, which was very disappointing to me
Speaker 1: at the time. I cried the whole way there, literally
Speaker 1: sobbing yes, And my boyfriend at the time, who became
Speaker 1: my husband, said well, you know, don't not go because
Speaker 1: of me, And I remember thinking, God, that would be
Speaker 1: the furthest thing from my mind. I was so kind
Speaker 1: of self possessed, but also clueless about the choices I
Speaker 1: was making. That's why I wrote a book for young singers,
Speaker 1: because if young singers are any one of them like
Speaker 1: I was, you just don't know what you're getting into.
Speaker 1: But I was also very lucky because that year turned
Speaker 1: out to be a very formative experience. I mean, learning
Speaker 1: to speak fluent German. How many languages do you speak fluent? Well,
Speaker 1: I studied French in high school like many of us did.
Speaker 1: That was, you know, the language. Paris is my second home,
Speaker 1: and I sang there every year for a long time,
Speaker 1: so my French is when I'm there, it picks up
Speaker 1: again and it's but German is even more fluent and consistent.
Speaker 1: During that year. You learned to speaking fluently in that
Speaker 1: one year. You know, I love the study of learning
Speaker 1: and of memory, because what I've discovered is that at
Speaker 1: the end of that year my German was okay, was good,
Speaker 1: you know. But every year, every time I go back,
Speaker 1: it gets better and I don't have to speak a
Speaker 1: word of German in between. So the brain, those neurons
Speaker 1: keep firing. Then you come back to Julliard. Yes, then
Speaker 1: I come back to Juilliard. I tried to stay in Germany.
Speaker 1: I tried to stay there and get work. No one
Speaker 1: would have me, so I came back in my career
Speaker 1: started here. Then, how well, I had a rough couple
Speaker 1: of years of sort of no man's land, which is
Speaker 1: very common with singers between education and the start of career.
Speaker 1: It's very common for all of us, really, all musicians,
Speaker 1: you know, And there's this catch twenty two where you
Speaker 1: can't get management unless they can go here. You perform,
Speaker 1: but you can't get a job. Don't get managed in
Speaker 1: the acting world. Okay, call me when you're in a
Speaker 1: show and welcome here. That's the manager you're trying to get.
Speaker 1: So competitions were the thing that helped me. And one
Speaker 1: of the competitions exactly for me. It was the met competition,
Speaker 1: and it took me three times, but I finally won.
Speaker 1: All of a sudden the doors opened. But it took
Speaker 1: about a year and a half. I'd say things went slowly.
Speaker 1: The first and the first and the first paid, legit
Speaker 1: professional job you have was doing what the first real
Speaker 1: engagement was in the Houston Grand Opera and it was
Speaker 1: the Marriage of Figaro, and that really put me on
Speaker 1: the map, and that described so important. I had never
Speaker 1: sung the opera in Italian, I had singing in English.
Speaker 1: So I went to rehearse with really seasoned professionals, I
Speaker 1: mean people who were big opera stars already, and I
Speaker 1: was a beginner, you know. The first day of rehearsal
Speaker 1: Thomas Allen, in particular, Sir Thomas Allen, He's got such
Speaker 1: an intelligence and a sophistication about his portrayal of all
Speaker 1: of these mozart in here herees he's still performing I
Speaker 1: think at the World Opera, I was just jelly at
Speaker 1: the end of the first rehearsal because I thought I
Speaker 1: can't even keep up with him. MOLTI Reachativa is really hard.
Speaker 1: Imagine doing very quick dialogue in a foreign language that
Speaker 1: you don't speak, really and I learned. You know, when
Speaker 1: you're young, you just you just you do what you
Speaker 1: have to do to keep up. I lifted the car
Speaker 1: off my baby because I had to lift the car.
Speaker 1: And when you get these opportunities, you have to rise
Speaker 1: to the occasion and take a risk and get out
Speaker 1: there and really make it work, or you don't get
Speaker 1: the opportunity again. You know, it's so competitive the field.
Speaker 1: I think all my horseback riding and doing horse shows
Speaker 1: as a kid really prepared me for that. And when
Speaker 1: when the curtain, I don't need to be so plodramatic,
Speaker 1: but the world you live in that kind of lends itself.
Speaker 1: That's when the curtain comes down and the shows, the
Speaker 1: first shows, ever, how did you feel? Well? You know,
Speaker 1: it's unfortunately too long ago from me to remotely remember that,
Speaker 1: but you know, I can tell you there was a
Speaker 1: euphoria in those early experiences, a sense of happiness and
Speaker 1: relief when I would go from one engagement to the other.
Speaker 1: You know, our world, we never stop, so there's no
Speaker 1: sort of you do the project and then you take
Speaker 1: a break. It's a big blur. It's just after that,
Speaker 1: it's a blur, and it's like it's all one big
Speaker 1: episode of a TV show. To me, now two things.
Speaker 1: One is more tangible than the other. Someone Melanie Griffith
Speaker 1: Yers have I said to me that every role you
Speaker 1: play is the chance to bury that part of yourself
Speaker 1: that you don't like. And the other thing I find
Speaker 1: is that when God wants to make fun of me
Speaker 1: and to mock me, I'll get a script and what's
Speaker 1: going on with that character is exactly what's going on
Speaker 1: right right, And I'll read the script and it's almost
Speaker 1: God to say to me, see right, stupid it looks
Speaker 1: when it's on paper. I have felt that a lot
Speaker 1: of times when I've been in any kind of conflict
Speaker 1: or struggle, somehow the repertoire that I'm performing has just
Speaker 1: coincidentally mirrored it in a way that's been healing. Let's
Speaker 1: say healing. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to
Speaker 1: here's the thing today with Renee fleming in your work,
Speaker 1: because in my work it's not this way. You can't
Speaker 1: do what you do unless you summon up some reservoir
Speaker 1: of the deepest, deepest passion to sing these roles effectively.
Speaker 1: Think of a role you've you've performed where even you
Speaker 1: sat there and go, God, this is killing me. We
Speaker 1: just came out of you like you couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1: Kim out of it, you know there, Well, there are
Speaker 1: two sides of it. One is the vocal. One one
Speaker 1: is this feeling that you know I'm in the right
Speaker 1: place at the right time to be singing this, and
Speaker 1: you know your voice well. The voice is such an
Speaker 1: evolving instrument. So when I sang Tais, for instance, at
Speaker 1: the met some years ago, and had these spectacular costumes
Speaker 1: from Christian Loqua, you just thought the stars have aligned
Speaker 1: to make this role of suit me perfectly right now.
Speaker 1: I love singing in French. I love Massine the way
Speaker 1: it lies, the character, the fact that you know, the
Speaker 1: psychological drama and this opera where these two people completely
Speaker 1: changed places with each other. That was a case certainly
Speaker 1: where I just thought, you know, and I was going
Speaker 1: to do it again and somebody stopped and said, do
Speaker 1: you want to sing it again in five years if
Speaker 1: it's not as good as it was this time? And
Speaker 1: I said, you're right, I'm not going to I'm not
Speaker 1: going to risk that it was It was perfect. I
Speaker 1: mean it was. I couldn't do it better. So it's
Speaker 1: not very often I can say that I couldn't do
Speaker 1: it better. Someone else maybe could do it better. Different
Speaker 1: It was the best that I could do. How have
Speaker 1: opera audience has changed during your career at all? I
Speaker 1: think the challenge we face in opera in general, and
Speaker 1: I would say forget opera and classical music is really exposure.
Speaker 1: It used to be that we had exposure obviously in schools.
Speaker 1: We had exposure through churches and through our families. Every
Speaker 1: socially climbing family got a piano, uh and and felt
Speaker 1: that a musical education was part when arts education was
Speaker 1: part of their children's, you know, the betterment of their lives,
Speaker 1: and that you know it is what it is. It is.
Speaker 1: It is gone. It's just simply people don't feel it's
Speaker 1: relevant anymore. It makes my heart when you say that,
Speaker 1: But it's true when you do a show, when you're
Speaker 1: performing a piece what's the day like for you? You
Speaker 1: go to the theater and do you have us do
Speaker 1: do people in your future of like a warm up?
Speaker 1: You do? Is there a well I know nothing about
Speaker 1: vocal I try to vocalize earlier in the day because
Speaker 1: I find that it's better for me a little bit.
Speaker 1: Just kind of see where it's at. You know, some things,
Speaker 1: Drinking certain things I have to be careful about. I
Speaker 1: love caffeine, you know. I would drink coffee all day
Speaker 1: and I have to be careful about that because it's dehydrating.
Speaker 1: So I have my typical so and you have to
Speaker 1: force fluids a little bit, which I hate too. So
Speaker 1: these are the boring things, but not really good people
Speaker 1: I think are just interested in what kind of the
Speaker 1: discipline is complex? Yea, most people can't control what they
Speaker 1: eat and drink. There's a little bit of that, having
Speaker 1: the humidifier on, making sure it's a lot about you know, moisture.
Speaker 1: These are all mucous membranes. The vocal folds are very sensitive,
Speaker 1: and you want to go in to that performance with
Speaker 1: them being super healthy and not dried out. We're the
Speaker 1: Olympians of singers, really, and you will have a three
Speaker 1: to five hour long performance and that takes a lot
Speaker 1: of physical stamina. Yeah, it's a lot of physical stamina.
Speaker 1: Plus you're emotionally all over the place, you know, as
Speaker 1: you said it to very But it's mainly the amount
Speaker 1: of sound we have to produce to be heard over
Speaker 1: the orchestra and the chorus in a huge hall. That's
Speaker 1: the thing that that is different. And if we sing well,
Speaker 1: if we sing technically well, we should be able to
Speaker 1: get up the next day and sound normal. You know,
Speaker 1: people will go to sports events and scream at you know,
Speaker 1: the other team or even there if the people they
Speaker 1: like and their horse. The next day. We can't do that.
Speaker 1: We're doing the same thing, but we're doing it in
Speaker 1: the trained way, and you know, it is a hard
Speaker 1: art form to get right. There are all these elements
Speaker 1: and it's live. But when it's right, it's it's amazing. Oh.
Speaker 1: Renee Fleming says she's looking forward to getting some rest,
Speaker 1: although it's not clear when that will come. In addition
Speaker 1: to her busy performance schedule, she recently became the creative
Speaker 1: consultant for the Lyric Opera in Chicago. They just announced
Speaker 1: an upcoming world premier opera based on the bestseller Bell Conto,
Speaker 1: and she's been advocating for more arts education in schools.
Speaker 1: It's not just for people to be consumers of the artists,
Speaker 1: for them to also participate, find the creative voices, and
Speaker 1: build confidence through participation. My thanks to it's a promin
Speaker 1: at Renee Fleming. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing that's
Speaker 1: brought to you by my Heart Radio.