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Speaker 1: Novel. On January six of two thousand and twenty, at

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Speaker 1: four pm, Ben Photor got a text message from a

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Speaker 1: number he didn't recognize. It was a single word. Ben

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Speaker 1: replied with two question marks, and the stranger responded with

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Speaker 1: a confusing series of messages about the weather and a

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Speaker 1: pair of missing glasses, until they seemed to realize that

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Speaker 1: they were texting the wrong person. Wait, ship is this Tommy?

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Speaker 1: And then things got strange. Instead of the conversation ending,

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Speaker 1: Ben asked the stranger what they were doing later that night,

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Speaker 1: and the stranger typed getting high and watching Netflix. How

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Speaker 1: about you, to which Ben replied, nice, We're going to

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Speaker 1: get high and go to the arcade I want to join.

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Speaker 1: They continued chatting until late at night. The stranger eventually

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Speaker 1: told Ben that her name was Laura. Ben told Laura

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Speaker 1: that he and his girlfriend were polyamorous and suggested that

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Speaker 1: they all meet up, and he sent Laura a photo

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Speaker 1: of him and his girlfriend. Laura replied, don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 1: you are both hot. A yes, but I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: make good decisions. But they kept texting over the next

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Speaker 1: few days, and eventually Laura agreed to meet up with

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Speaker 1: Ben and his girlfriend Andrea at the Silver Cloud Hotel

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Speaker 1: near downtown Seattle. Laura told Ben a few of her

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Speaker 1: friends were in town visiting from Los Angeles. She'd been

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Speaker 1: planning to pick up drugs for them, but her dealer

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Speaker 1: stood her up. Ben offered to bring some to the hotel.

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Speaker 1: That would make it even easier for pre party, Laura replied. Then,

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Speaker 1: on January nine, at five fifty pm, Ben texted, Hey,

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Speaker 1: so I was not able to get m but I

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Speaker 1: can get you c at eight U G or a

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Speaker 1: ball for two. Laura replied, that's cool. We have money

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Speaker 1: for a ball, meaning an eight ball or around three

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Speaker 1: point five grams of cocaine. Four hours later, a Seattle

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Speaker 1: Police Department detective held a meeting with members of her

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Speaker 1: department along with some agents from the Homeland Security Investigation Unit.

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Speaker 1: They were preparing for a narcotic takedown operation. At ten

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Speaker 1: fIF pm, officers observed Ben Fodor and his girlfriend Andrea

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Speaker 1: Bernstin parking orange smart car in front of the hotel

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Speaker 1: and make their way into the lobby. According to court documents,

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Speaker 1: Photor had a shiny gold backpack and was carrying a

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Speaker 1: blue tackle box. Andrea exited the South Lobby door to

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Speaker 1: smoke a cigarette at the point, the police moved in

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Speaker 1: and arrested Ben and Andrea. Back at the precinct, the

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Speaker 1: officers searched Ben and Andrea's belongings. Inside the tackle box,

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Speaker 1: they found seven separate bundles of suspected cocaine, weighing a

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Speaker 1: total of four grams. They also found a scale covered

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Speaker 1: in what looked like drug residue and another unknown white

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Speaker 1: powder substance weighing thirty one seven grams. Also inside the

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Speaker 1: tackle box were two passports belonging to Ben and Andrea.

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Speaker 1: There was, of course no Laura. It was a made

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Speaker 1: up name by an undercover cop. This whole sting operation

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Speaker 1: seems like a lot of work, and it appeared to

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Speaker 1: be a shift in Phoenix's relationship with the police. This

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Speaker 1: time they seemed to be taking the initiative to come

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Speaker 1: after him, unlike in the past where they were reacting

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Speaker 1: to his actions. According to Phoenix, he was under attack.

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Speaker 1: In January of Phoenix was charged with two counts violation

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Speaker 1: of the Uniform Controlled Substances Act, and in March he

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Speaker 1: pled guilty to the lesser charges of conspiracy. The self

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Speaker 1: proclaimed Guardian of Seattle was no longer standing his ground

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Speaker 1: against arm crack dealers. He was himself a convicted drug dealer.

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Speaker 1: The world would never see him the same way again.

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Speaker 1: I'm David Weinberg and from the Team's at Novel and

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. This is the final installment of The

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Speaker 1: Superhero Complex, Episode eight, The Hero We Deserve. When Phoenix

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Speaker 1: got busted, the rain City superhero movement was a distant

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Speaker 1: memory to most people in Seattle. They're fifteen minutes of

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Speaker 1: fame had long been up. And then came the news

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Speaker 1: of Phoenix's arrest for selling drugs to undercover cops. Phoenix

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Speaker 1: was back in the spotlight. How have you dealt with

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Speaker 1: the public perception of he was drug dealer? It's been terrible.

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Speaker 1: Some of the worst times of my entire life walked

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Speaker 1: me through. Like how you've dealt with it? I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's been really crazy, man, It's been really bad. So,

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Speaker 1: like after the indictment, everyone just turned their backs on

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Speaker 1: me and said that I was doing all this crazy stuff.

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Speaker 1: I had people spit on me on the streets. I

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Speaker 1: went to a weird little suicidal phase for a second

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Speaker 1: where I was feeling like I should just end everything,

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Speaker 1: and and then I came to the same conclusion how

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Speaker 1: he's come to you know, fuck you guys. If you

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Speaker 1: read the transcript of the text exchanges between the undercover

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Speaker 1: cop and Phoenix, he does not come across as a

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Speaker 1: drug dealer. He seems more like a guy who thinks

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Speaker 1: he's about to have a threesome and is only bringing

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Speaker 1: some drugs to the party as a favor. He does

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Speaker 1: mention drugs, but it's the undercover officer who brings them

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Speaker 1: up first. My takeaway from looking at the evidence provided

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Speaker 1: by the Seattle Police Department is that in this instance

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Speaker 1: with Laura, Phoenix looks a lot more like a middleman

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Speaker 1: and a drug deal than some kind of big time

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Speaker 1: dealer himself. But there's more to the story, because this

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Speaker 1: wasn't the first time Phoenix had been caught selling drugs

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Speaker 1: to cops. On November five, two months before his arrest,

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Speaker 1: the Silver Cloud Hotel, Phoenix got a text from Mike.

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Speaker 1: Mike was actually to uncovered police officers. According to court documents,

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Speaker 1: Mike and Phoenix texted back and forth for a few days,

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Speaker 1: and on November Mike texted Phoenix asking to buy some

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Speaker 1: M d M A. The cops say Phoenix asked for

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Speaker 1: payment upfront and sent them his Venmo, which had a

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Speaker 1: photo of him in profile. Also a fun fact I

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Speaker 1: learned from reading the court documents, Phoenix's Venmo user name

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Speaker 1: was Booty sweat Baby. Anyway, Mike and Phoenix agree to

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Speaker 1: meet at a Starbucks and the Wells Fargo building downtown

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Speaker 1: around noon. The next day, a team of officers met

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Speaker 1: for a briefing. Officer Amy Brownham was running the bust

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Speaker 1: and she showed everyone a picture of Phoenix. An officer

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Speaker 1: of pretending to be Mike, along with four other undercover

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Speaker 1: officers in plain clothes were stationed inside the coffee shop.

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Speaker 1: Officer Brownham was also there watching from outside. At one pm,

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Speaker 1: Phoenix rolled up dressed in a green tank top and jeans,

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Speaker 1: carrying a brown paper bag. The whole exchange took less

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Speaker 1: than a minute. Here's a condensed version of the police report.

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Speaker 1: Phoenix is referred to by his last name Photor. Photoor

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Speaker 1: and the undercover agent made eye contact with each other,

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Speaker 1: and the undercover agent gave him a head nod. Photoor

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Speaker 1: walked towards the undercover agent. They shook hands, and the

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Speaker 1: undercover agent asked photo Or if he was bent. He

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Speaker 1: replied yes, the undercover agent handed photo Or two d dollars,

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Speaker 1: and photo Or accepted the money. He placed the brown

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Speaker 1: paper bag that he was carrying on the table in

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Speaker 1: front of the undercover agent. Photor stated that it was

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Speaker 1: all there and packaged into separate baggies. He told the

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Speaker 1: undercover agent he could check it if you wanted to.

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Speaker 1: The undercover agent declined and told Photoor that he trusted him.

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Speaker 1: The undercover agent asked photo Or if he could hit

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Speaker 1: him up next week if he needed more. Photoor said

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Speaker 1: he could. Photo Or exited the Starbucks and jogged northbound.

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Speaker 1: The version of events laid out in the police report

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Speaker 1: is a pretty straightforward drug deal, But according to Phoenix,

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Speaker 1: the media weren't interested in his side of the story.

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Speaker 1: I got indicted, and people would not take my interview

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Speaker 1: to talk to them about my indictment. They didn't want

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Speaker 1: to go into the gritty of what happened. They wanted

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Speaker 1: to just basically slander my name, and they wrote all

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Speaker 1: these articles that were inaccurate. They wanted to go with

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Speaker 1: the falling hero line, and that's what they wanted to

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Speaker 1: go with. So if the story the rest of the

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Speaker 1: world heard is all wrong, what is the real story.

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Speaker 1: I think, UM, not holding my friends and people I

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Speaker 1: hang out with to the same standards of accountability that

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Speaker 1: I would hold myself to makes me guilty by association.

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Speaker 1: In both the hotel and the Starbucks drug busts, Phoenix

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Speaker 1: claims he was only facilitating other people's deals. He's basically

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Speaker 1: saying he was nothing but a middleman. In the M

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Speaker 1: d M A bust at the coffee shop, Phoenix says

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Speaker 1: his friend was the dealer, not him, but Mike. The

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Speaker 1: undercover cop told this friend he'd only accept the drugs

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Speaker 1: from Phoenix, So Phoenix agreed to deliver the drugs, and

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Speaker 1: then he says, here's a hundred dollar tip for being here.

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Speaker 1: Gave me a tip. I was like sweet, took that

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Speaker 1: money and then handed him the bag and I left like, dude,

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Speaker 1: I know what in the bag though, for sure? For sure?

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Speaker 1: So am I still guilty? Definitely? But the person you texted,

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Speaker 1: the person who showed up, the person who brought the drugs,

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Speaker 1: the person who bought the drugs, all of that wasn't me.

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Speaker 1: And as for the hotel bust, Phoenix says he was

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Speaker 1: only near the drugs, not using or selling them. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't on drugs. The Daily arrested us. I had no

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Speaker 1: drugs in my system. They checked my fingerprints. My fingerprints

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Speaker 1: were not anywhere on the drug paraphernalia. The drug parapetet

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Speaker 1: he wasn't found on me or near me. But did

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Speaker 1: I know they had it for sure? Just facts like yep,

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Speaker 1: and that's a crime, which it is. Conspiracy. Now there's

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Speaker 1: a lot to unpack here, but let's start with the

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Speaker 1: Starbucks bust. I have a very hard time believing Phoenix's

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Speaker 1: version of the story. Here's why. Phoenix is a guy

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Speaker 1: who believes that the Seattle police are out to get him.

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Speaker 1: He knows he has to be perfect and everything he

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Speaker 1: does because he thinks the police are chomping at the

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Speaker 1: bit to arrest him. And then this drug dealer friend

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Speaker 1: of his comes along and says, Hey, I'm about to

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Speaker 1: sell some drugs to this random guy to Starbucks. But

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Speaker 1: for some reason, he says he will only accept the

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Speaker 1: drugs if you deliver them, and Phoenix says, sure, no problem,

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to help. This all seems totally normal. For

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Speaker 1: Phoenix to agree to that, he would have to be

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Speaker 1: incredibly stupid, and Phoenix maybe many things, but stupid he

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Speaker 1: is not. Also, who tips a drug dealer a hundred dollars? Now,

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Speaker 1: as for the hotel bust, that one is a lot

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Speaker 1: more complicated. Again, Phoenix makes the claim that he was

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Speaker 1: merely the middleman, and I do think that the text

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Speaker 1: exchange seems like he isn't some drug kingpin. But if

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Speaker 1: he didn't have anything to do with supplying the cocaine,

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Speaker 1: why were his and his girlfriend's passports inside the tackle

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Speaker 1: box with the drugs. I still can't make sense of

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Speaker 1: that detail. And on the other hand, if the cops

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Speaker 1: had such a clear cut case against him, why did

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Speaker 1: Phoenix get off so easy? It seems odd to me

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Speaker 1: that the police would put so much money in manpower

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Speaker 1: into a sting operation to ultimately let him off with

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Speaker 1: a slap on the wrist. Maybe it's proof of Phoenix's

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Speaker 1: theory that their goal was simply to ruin his reputation

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Speaker 1: by making his arrest public. Or maybe Phoenix's lawyer just

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Speaker 1: did what lawyers do and got the charges reduced. Or

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Speaker 1: maybe Phoenix snitched on his supplier in exchange for a

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Speaker 1: lesser charge. Those all seem like plausible theories. What we

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Speaker 1: do know for sure is that when the charges were

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Speaker 1: first brought in January. There was account of cocaine possession

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Speaker 1: with intent to distribute and one of feloniously delivering M

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Speaker 1: d m A, but on March they were dropped to

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Speaker 1: conspiracy charges. And a conspiracy charge basically means that two

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Speaker 1: or more people agree to commit a crime at some

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Speaker 1: point in the future. I was with people who had drugs.

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Speaker 1: I was aware that there were definitely drugs involved, and

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Speaker 1: you know, as far as a conspiracy goes, it's just

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Speaker 1: knowing that someone was trying to do something illegal and

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Speaker 1: not stopping them. And I'm definitely guilty of that. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I believe in America, I believe the Constitution.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna plead guilty because I'm gilty of that. But

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Speaker 1: it's disingenuous the way that it was said. And Phoenix

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Speaker 1: did plead guilty to two counts of conspiracy to commit

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Speaker 1: violation of the Uniform Controlled Substances Act, one for the

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Speaker 1: M d M A bust and one for the cocaine.

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Speaker 1: He was sentenced to four days in jail, time served,

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Speaker 1: and find five dollars plus an additional one for the

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Speaker 1: DNA test. I feel like that detail gets lost in

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Speaker 1: the media narrative, like no one cares what the charges.

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Speaker 1: It's like, oh, you're a drug dealer, right, but they're

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Speaker 1: not accusing me of being a drug delar right. But

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Speaker 1: like what I'm saying is like, I know that's the

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Speaker 1: stories that I'm a drugular, but that's not what he

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Speaker 1: was accusing me of. How many days did you serve

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Speaker 1: in jail? Zero? They said they wouldn't delete my charge,

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Speaker 1: but if I pledged, which I had already done, they

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Speaker 1: would give me zero days in jail, and in four

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Speaker 1: years they'll delete my felony. But they just want me

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Speaker 1: to be guilty. Does that make sense? Like if I'm

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Speaker 1: a danger to society, why would you release me the

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Speaker 1: day that you I say that I'm guilty with no

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Speaker 1: release conditions, there's literally nothing, but they wanted to give

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Speaker 1: me like a felony tag. Phoenix claims that the Seattle

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Speaker 1: Police deviated from their own policies and an effort to

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Speaker 1: bring him down. So is what happened to Phoenix unusual

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Speaker 1: for Seattle? We should probably start by saying that the

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Speaker 1: Seattle Police Department is under a federal consent decree for

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Speaker 1: their history of biased policing. This is Rich Smith a

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Speaker 1: journalist at the Stranger local paper in Seattle. The Seattle

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Speaker 1: Police Department is a moribund institution that's overfunded. They'd spent

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Speaker 1: a lot more of their time responding to non violent

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Speaker 1: crimes than violent crimes. Lots of investment and new training strategy,

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Speaker 1: his new ways to get him to stop arresting black

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Speaker 1: and brown people at higher rates than white people for

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Speaker 1: the same crimes. There hasn't been a ton of progress

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Speaker 1: on that bias. That's the reputation of the Seattle Police Department.

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Speaker 1: The two main people in charge of prosecutions in Seattle

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Speaker 1: at the time of Phoenix's arrest were King County prosecuting

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Speaker 1: Attorney Dan Saderberg and Phoenix's old arch nemesis, former Seattle

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Speaker 1: City Attorney Pete Holmes. Pete Holmes's progressive era as a prosecutor.

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Speaker 1: He came in swinging a big bat and just stopped

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Speaker 1: prosecuting a lot of marijuana arrests. Pete Holmes covered misdemeanors

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Speaker 1: and Dan Saderberg was in charge of felonies. When Phoenix

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Speaker 1: talked to me, he directed a lot of his anger

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Speaker 1: at Pete Holmes, but it was actually Saderberg who was

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Speaker 1: in charge of his case. He first started making reforms

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Speaker 1: in the office related to drugs when he came on

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Speaker 1: in two thousand eight, where he reduced filing standards for

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Speaker 1: people who are caught simply possessing a certain amount of drugs.

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Speaker 1: So both prosecutors are viewed as being relatively liberal on drugs.

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Speaker 1: But the Seattle Police do have a track record of

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Speaker 1: questionable sting operations. Pete Holmes and the SPD came under

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Speaker 1: fire for sting operations they executed in massage parlors in

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Speaker 1: an effort to catch people paying sex workers. Those things were,

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Speaker 1: at least among public defenders, considered pretty wasteful uses of

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Speaker 1: city resources and pretty unsuccessful. A lot of the guys

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Speaker 1: ended up getting off because of shoddy police work. They

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Speaker 1: were pretty incompetently run. Examples like this lend credibility to

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Speaker 1: Phoenix's claims that the Seattle Police unnecessarily spent massive amounts

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Speaker 1: of public money on his relatively small crime. If they're

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Speaker 1: accusing him of being some kind of kingpin, then you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe some kind of sting operation would make sense like that.

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Speaker 1: But when I put it past the Seattle Police Department,

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Speaker 1: not at all. Putting too many recent sources into a

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Speaker 1: dubious sounding Let's say a case like this would cops

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Speaker 1: lie or waste a bunch of time and resources going

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Speaker 1: after a group or a person who was a thorn

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Speaker 1: in their side. I would not be surprised in the least.

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Speaker 1: Pete Holmes declined an interview, and Dan Saderberg didn't respond

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Speaker 1: to interview requests. The SPD also declined to put up

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Speaker 1: a spokesperson, and the undercover officers we reached out to

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Speaker 1: and former Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best all declined to

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Speaker 1: comment as well. We put all of Phoenix's allegations to

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Speaker 1: the SPD in writing and asked them about why so

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Speaker 1: much time and money was spent on an investigation that

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Speaker 1: ultimately resulted in two minor drug charges, six hundred dollars

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Speaker 1: in fines, and four days in jail. The Seattle Police

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Speaker 1: Communications Department responded that narcotics investigations routinely involved multiple officers

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Speaker 1: and detectives, both for investigative and safety reasons, and are

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Speaker 1: conducted over months and even years. In some cases, our

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Speaker 1: department arrested Mr Phodor for crimes he committed. Regardless of

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Speaker 1: what is true either, The Phoenix is a small time

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Speaker 1: coke and ecstasy dealer, or he simply has a soft

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Speaker 1: spot for helping out his drug dealer friends and as

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Speaker 1: the victim of an over zealous police force at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, he got off with a very

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Speaker 1: light punishment, and he knew very well the risks he

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Speaker 1: was taking when he agreed to get involved in the

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Speaker 1: legal drugs, So I don't have a lot of sympathy

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Speaker 1: for him. Everybody hates me already. I got split on

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Speaker 1: the street yesterday. Someone call me the drug dealers, but

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Speaker 1: I'm on the street to day in regular ass life.

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Speaker 1: Because you think I sold drugs for real, what I didn't.

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Speaker 1: And I don't care what you fucking think. Like people

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Speaker 1: don't like me. They've never liked me, that's not new.

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Speaker 1: But we're gonna talk about me showing up with literally

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Speaker 1: three point four grams of cocaine in a bag I

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Speaker 1: am not touching, while completely sober at a hotel trying

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Speaker 1: to meet a consenting adult to go play pinball. I mean,

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Speaker 1: go fund yourself. When Phoenix landed in trouble with the police,

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Speaker 1: he really wasn't in the superhero game much at all,

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Speaker 1: and now that most people in the city were convinced

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Speaker 1: that he was nothing but a drug dealing hypocrite. It

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Speaker 1: was starting to look like this was the end for

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Speaker 1: Seattle's most famous costumed crime fighter. But the year brought

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Speaker 1: unprecedented changes to the entire world, and in the midst

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Speaker 1: of a global pandemic and a wave of social unrest

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Speaker 1: in the streets, Phoenix would get his chance to rise

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Speaker 1: from the ashes and down his mask one more time.

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Speaker 1: That's coming up. By May of Phoenix Jones had basically

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Speaker 1: retired from being a superhero. No more shaky body cam videos,

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Speaker 1: no more railing against the police like he had in

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Speaker 1: the past. It looked as though Seattle police had finally

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Speaker 1: convinced Phoenix to hang up his super suit and leave

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Speaker 1: the crime fighting to the professionals. And then the world exploded.

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Speaker 1: Waves of peaceful protesters marched on bigger than ever before,

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Speaker 1: from Washington's newly named Black Drives Matter Plazia to Philadelphia,

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Speaker 1: turning violent in Portland, Oregon, Broo police clashed with protests

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Speaker 1: jes the world had spent months being locked down, and

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Speaker 1: then people in cities all across America and beyond erupted

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Speaker 1: in protests and clashes with police. After a white police

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Speaker 1: officer Derek Chauvin murdered George Floyd, a black man, in Minneapolis.

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Speaker 1: Rioters have taken over the shopping district in downtown Seattle.

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Speaker 1: They've set fire to multiple police vehicles. They have broken

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Speaker 1: into multiple businesses, including Nordstrom and Old Navy, and are

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Speaker 1: starting to loot. On May, four days after Floyd's death,

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Speaker 1: protesters marched through Seattle and gathered at hing Hay Park

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Speaker 1: in Seattle's International District to protest police brutality. Protesters laid

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Speaker 1: down the roads, chanting George Floyd's name. The windows of

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Speaker 1: a Ferrari dealership were smashed in, and some demonstrators curled fireworks.

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Speaker 1: By May, the police were launching flash bangs, tear gas,

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Speaker 1: and pepper spray at the crowds. Mayor Jenny Durkin and

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Speaker 1: stated a five pm to five am curfew. This is

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Speaker 1: a statewide emergency alert. The City of Seattle is asking

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Speaker 1: all residents to immediately disperse from downtown and then on mate.

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Speaker 1: Phoenix Jones resurfaced in his first tweet in over six months.

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Speaker 1: He posted in all caps the following message, if you're

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Speaker 1: in downtown Seattle and have been injured, need medical assistance,

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Speaker 1: or help evacuating. Tweet me see you in the streets.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps inevitably someone replies that they need help getting some

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Speaker 1: m d M A. But although Phoenix's reputation had taken

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Speaker 1: a dent, it seemed like he was serious about his comeback.

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Speaker 1: This is Phoenix Jones. I wanted to make a couple

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Speaker 1: of things straight before I start at the child today.

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Speaker 1: Later that day, Phoenix live streamed from a car decked

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Speaker 1: out in his super suit, though he changed up his

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Speaker 1: look a bit. Instead of his rubber batman style mask,

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Speaker 1: he had on a helmet. He announced that he was

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Speaker 1: heading into the fray. It was a full blown relaunch.

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Speaker 1: If you're injured and you need my help, give me

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Speaker 1: a call, hit me off on Twitter. I'll come help you.

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Speaker 1: Your buildings on fire, you've got something going on like

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Speaker 1: that and you need help and you have it called

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Speaker 1: nine one one already give me plus I'll come put

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Speaker 1: out that fire. He posts more videos that day. In

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Speaker 1: the next Guys, Jones make sybody stay safe through medical attention,

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Speaker 1: keeping everybody good. He live streams himself striding down the

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Speaker 1: streets of Seattle carrying a fire extinguisher, and he claims

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Speaker 1: he stopped to break it. I thought some people breaking

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Speaker 1: into a bartheuse, so I stopped breaking into the bartel

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Speaker 1: as much as I could. Otherwise, you know, the vandalism

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Speaker 1: will just continue. Phoenix is back. Meanwhile, the protests are escalating.

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Speaker 1: By June six, the police are firing blast balls into

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Speaker 1: crowds of demonstrators. On June seven, a man drives a

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Speaker 1: car into protests at Capitol Hill and shoots a protester

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Speaker 1: in the arm. The Seattle police use so much tear

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Speaker 1: gas against protesters that people in the neighborhood say it's

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Speaker 1: seeping into their homes, and then comes June eight. We

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Speaker 1: have to stand together and be one family pool. The

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Speaker 1: birth of the Chop or chas, the push to defund

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Speaker 1: and reform the Seattle Police Department, and the Black Lives

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Speaker 1: Matter movement is how six city blocks have been transformed

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Speaker 1: now called Chop. Officers retreated from the area to de

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Speaker 1: escalate the tension, effectively abandoning their station. Protesters say they

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Speaker 1: won't be intimidated by threats and say they planned to

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Speaker 1: stay as long as it takes to bring about change.

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Speaker 1: It started when the police boarded up the East Precinct

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Speaker 1: and vacated the property following clashes with protesters, so the

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Speaker 1: protesters rearranged the barricades and established a six block area

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Speaker 1: that included cal Anderson Park, a seven acre green space,

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Speaker 1: and Capitol Hill. Protesters pitched tents and dugout community gardens

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Speaker 1: in the park. They called it the CHOP, an acronym

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Speaker 1: that stands for Capitol Hill Occupied Protest, though some prefer

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Speaker 1: the name CHAZ Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone, and depending on

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Speaker 1: which news outlets you believe, the CHAS was either a

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Speaker 1: giant block party and safe space for protesters and community

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Speaker 1: activists to organize, or it's an anarchist stronghold full of

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Speaker 1: criminals and delusional hippies. One of the more fascinating things

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Speaker 1: about the chairs for the purposes of this story is

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00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: that the chairs unintentionally became perhaps the largest test case

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Speaker 1: for the work of real life superheroes because cops were

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00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: not allowed into the chairs, though I suspect the place

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00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: was crawling with plainclothes officers, but you know who was

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Speaker 1: allowed to patrol this newly founded urban experiment. Hey guys,

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Speaker 1: this is Phoenix Jones doing a day patrol the Capitol

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Speaker 1: Hill in downtown Always back. You guessed it Phoenix Jones.

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Speaker 1: On June twelve, four days after the birth of the Chairs,

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Speaker 1: Phoenix makes his comeback official. In a tweet in all caps,

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Speaker 1: of course, he proclaims, I'm out of retirement. Streets need

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Speaker 1: me Seattle, hold it together. I'm on my way. Two

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Speaker 1: days later, on Sunday, June, he's back live streaming from

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Speaker 1: the Chairs. He starts to film what he says is

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Speaker 1: going to be an interview with some of the CHAZ organizers. Hey, guys,

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00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: what's up. I'm live inside the chat zone. Obviously, I'm

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Speaker 1: just trying to find out one of the other people

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00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: that we're speaking with. So I should be right back

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00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: on in the next five or so minutes. But as

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Speaker 1: the night wears on, things take a turn. So uh,

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Speaker 1: sorry about that. In the middle of trying to give

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Speaker 1: an interview, and right in the process of giving this interview,

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Speaker 1: we hear this person saying that there's a guy with

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Speaker 1: a gun breaking into a place on twelfth Avenue. So

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Speaker 1: we take off towards twelve and we get there and

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Speaker 1: they have the suspect behind a car. There's a gathering

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Speaker 1: of people outside an auto repair shop called car Tender,

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Speaker 1: where Phoenix says he thwarted an attempted break in. I

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Speaker 1: took off on foot around the corner, jumped over the fence,

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Speaker 1: and went into the actual building itself to make sure

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Speaker 1: he didn't have any you know, backup of friends inside.

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Speaker 1: No one was in the building. I was able to

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Speaker 1: locate the box that had all the keys that he

430
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,280
Speaker 1: was planning to steal to come back and steal the cars,

431
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: and then in the parking lot, so I was able

432
00:26:56,760 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: to get the key, returned the key to the owner,

433
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: and then I hid in the parking lot while a

434
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,719
Speaker 1: mom decided to yell at I love him suck. According

435
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: to Phoenix, the crowd that has gathered is demanding that

436
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: the owner of the business let the suspected thief go free.

437
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: I'm out here the place. There's probably at people. I'm

438
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: gonna stop them from getting violence, and this is gonna

439
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: get shitty, so I'll see you in the streets. Something

440
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: clearly went down at the car tender, but from the

441
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: videos that Phoenix posted, it's not clear what he was

442
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: up to. We spoke to the owner of the store

443
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 1: to get their account of what happened, and he said

444
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: that Phoenix didn't jump the fence or save the car Keys.

445
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: He actually doesn't remember Phoenix being there at all. Anyway,

446
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 1: despite the negative reaction that Phoenix says he received, he

447
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: wasn't deterred. In fact, his ambitions seemed to be getting bolder.

448
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 1: That same night, he posts a picture of Batman with

449
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: the caption let's try and find a middle ground and

450
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: I'm bringing great ideas and solutions to this problem. And

451
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: the next day, Monday, June, it gets interviewed on local

452
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 1: radio by Jason Rants. Over the course of the last

453
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: couple of days, it sounds like you have this goal

454
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: of trying to bring people together. Take us through how

455
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: that's gone so far. Well, I mean that's funny, Like

456
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,479
Speaker 1: the last couple of days, my goal has not been

457
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 1: to bring people together. My goalp has bring people together

458
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: by a entire life. In spite of his recent running

459
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:28,159
Speaker 1: with the SPD, Phoenix expresses his frustration at what he

460
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: sees as their lack of policing. It's been incredibly challenging

461
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: because the Black Lives Matter movement is like a blanket word, right,

462
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: black Lives matter. Obviously everyone agrees with that, bec there's

463
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: a lot of other stuff in there that's kind of weird.

464
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: And then there's the Antifa angle and all these other

465
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: different things, but no matter what it is, taking over

466
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: six city blocks is just illegal. And when the police

467
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: decide could not respond to one calls in that area,

468
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: that is like name on you. And then, in one

469
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 1: of the craziest turn of events and the Phoenix Jones storyline,

470
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: Poenix shows up in the Chas that same night, claiming

471
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: that the Seattle Police Department have contacted him and basically

472
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: asked him to be a negotiator on their behalf with

473
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: the people leading the protests. The response on social media

474
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: is swift. How long has he been out of jail? Four?

475
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: This ship is excruciating with hilarious. I thought he hung

476
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: up the tights. It just keeps getting weirder. Is Seattle

477
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: Police actually set of Phoenix Jones to do this? I

478
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: will follow the dead from laughter and I hope you

479
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: will attend my funeral. He's a joke and I want

480
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: to be cop. Isn't his superpower selling ecstasy? It wasn't

481
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: quite the glorious comeback Phoenix had hoped for. But while

482
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: he was busy playing the Seattle Police Department's unofficial mediator,

483
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: a few streets away, another band of superheroes had arrived

484
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: to answer the call of their city in need. May

485
00:29:54,360 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: stay safe. We're here rendering a Okay, Red Ranger and

486
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: justin Service we met in the previous episode. We're also

487
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: hard at work in the Chaz with their team Echo,

488
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: the Emerald City Heroes organization. They were trying to represent

489
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: a different kind of real life superhero. You're welcome, but

490
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: please get the sat gotta staff. We're doing our best.

491
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 1: Please get. They were supportive of the protests and said

492
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: they wanted to be on hand to help anyone who

493
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: needed assistance. But in addition to tear gas and flash bangs,

494
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,479
Speaker 1: Red Ranger and the Echo crew also had to contend

495
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: with the fact that Seattle's superhero movement had sustained some

496
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 1: serious reputational damage. No, he's not a member of our organization.

497
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,560
Speaker 1: He's not No, no, no association. No we don't. You

498
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: want to make that very clear. There's you're not on

499
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: our Phoenix has always said that one of the main

500
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: reasons he created his superhero persona was to inspire others

501
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: to take on injustice in the world and to stand

502
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: up for those in need. But by the character he

503
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: created became a punchline a symbol of hypocrisy and absurdity

504
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: above all else, and as the most famous member of

505
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: the community, his fall from grace cast a shadow over

506
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: the whole real life superhero universe. While on patrol, Red

507
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: Ranger and Justin Service repeatedly distanced themselves from Phoenix. Phoenix

508
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: Jones is another not really not anymore. He's in a

509
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: bad what's the had we had? He's limitted criminal activities.

510
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: I'm not going to get into it. Yeah, he's not

511
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: a good example. At one point, they walked past a

512
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 1: poster of Phoenix that said Officer Jones Pepper Spray and

513
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: neighborhood near you. Holy take a picture of that. I can't. Oh,

514
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: no worries, I gotta get this holy crap. All through

515
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: June of clashes between the police and protest is continued,

516
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: and then on Saturday June, all hell broke loose and

517
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: the Seattle superheroes had to step into a deadly situation

518
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: where the police were nowhere to be found until it

519
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: was too late. Around midnight, Justin Service and Red Ranger

520
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: started their patrol of the Chaz Red Ranger, who was

521
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: a registered nurse, had been giving medical care to folks

522
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 1: and trying to de escalate some arguments. There was a

523
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: group of people setting off fireworks, but then around two

524
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 1: am they heard gunfire. Phoenix was also in the area.

525
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: At just after three am, he tweeted bullets and chaos.

526
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: I'm in chopped, stay away, seen confusing shoot her on

527
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 1: the loose. Red Ranger and Justin's Service ran toward the

528
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: sound of the gunfire and arrived on the scene of

529
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 1: the shooting. It was total chaos, and laying on the

530
00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: ground was nineteen year old Horace Lorenzo Anderson Jr. He

531
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: had been shot. Come on, everybody back here back. We

532
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 1: were doing CPR and trying to provide medical intervention with

533
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 1: the volunteer medics that were on scene, and we were

534
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: calling for an ambulance. Well, the ambulance wouldn't come in

535
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,120
Speaker 1: because they can't come in until the police cleared the scene.

536
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: Watch get out of here drive. The police claimed that

537
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: it was the protesters we prevented law enforcement from entering

538
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: the chaz But based on reporting by kow's Ashley Haruko,

539
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: who reviewed videos from that night along with the dispatch

540
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 1: recordings and eyewitness testimony, it was not the protesters it

541
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: caused the delay, but miscommunication between the Seattle fire and

542
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: police departments. Everybody, get back, get back, get back. I

543
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: get shot, get back, get back. Someone was shot. We

544
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: ended up losing a poor young man, you know, when

545
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,040
Speaker 1: we tried to save him. We didn't get the help

546
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: we needed that night, and I wish we had. There's

547
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: a lot of factors that went into that, but it's

548
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: still a regret that that young man lost his life.

549
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 1: Every Holy Cross Horace Lorenzo Anderson's father, currently has an

550
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: active lawsuit for wrongful death filed against the city of Seattle. Meanwhile,

551
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 1: Phoenix had apparently left the scene. He tweeted that he

552
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 1: hadn't been able to get a description of the shooter,

553
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 1: and I get the sense that he was reaching a

554
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: breaking point. Later that same night, in the early hours

555
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: of Saturday morning, he goes on to tweet too much,

556
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: too damn much. We need to do something now. People

557
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: are dying and my fucking city is under attack. I

558
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,240
Speaker 1: arrived on the scene after the shooting, directed via Twitter,

559
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 1: no police chaos, people grabbing the evidence and moving things,

560
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 1: and had no description of the shooter, and medical was

561
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: already there. I was drawing attention and with an active shooter,

562
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: I had to be back. I have no idea how

563
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: to combat this threat of real life ending magnitude and

564
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 1: at the same time protect people's right to protest. I

565
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,880
Speaker 1: am so angry. Why are the mayor, governor and police

566
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: standing outside an imaginary border when citizens of Seattle are

567
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: fucking dying? Then a long series of a's and h

568
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: ah okay. If the brief moment in time when the

569
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,439
Speaker 1: Chads existed was a test case for letting superheroes stand

570
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: in for cops in emergency situations, it did not go

571
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:44,280
Speaker 1: well for the superheroes. They had failed in their mission

572
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: to intercede in those moments before a crime takes place,

573
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: and when things did go horribly wrong, they weren't able

574
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: to prevent the death of Horace Lorenzo Anderson or catch

575
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: the person who killed him. And at the end of

576
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: the day, it is Phoenix him Health who is angrily

577
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,840
Speaker 1: demanding that the police show up and do something to

578
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: protect the people because he and his fellow superheroes have failed.

579
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: In the days that followed. He then got into a

580
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: Twitter beef with an account claiming to be the official

581
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: CHAS account. It posted that Phoenix was banned from the

582
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: CHAS and that the Chas Solidarity community had issued orders

583
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: for security to deny access to the chairs to all

584
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: members of superhero movements attempting to enter the area. Whether

585
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: the account was really representing CHAZ organizers is contested, but

586
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 1: Phoenix took it as the truth and railed against them.

587
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: In another all caps tweet, he said, I do not

588
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: respect your imaginary borders. Citizens are dying. Grow up. I'll

589
00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 1: see you to night in the streets, Jones out. Finally,

590
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: on Wednesday, July one, the city moved in and started

591
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: dismantling the CHAZ barricades. Protests and conversations about police abolition

592
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: and reform would continue, but one thing seemed clearer than ever.

593
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 1: In the city of Seattle. There seemed to be very

594
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: little appetite for our masked adventurer Phoenix Jones. His triumph

595
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: of return only seemed to make him more enemies in

596
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: the hometown he had sworn to protect. But even then,

597
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,399
Speaker 1: Phoenix Jones would not be deterred. He'd continue to take

598
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: to the streets in search of crimes to thwart, and soon,

599
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: at long last, I'd be going with him. That's coming up.

600
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: Phoenix Jones had become a running joke in Seattle, his

601
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: superhero squad was a distant memory. He pled guilty to

602
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: two drug conspiracy charges, and his relaunch at the Chas

603
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 1: had been a flop. At this point, most people would

604
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 1: probably decide to give up on the whole real life

605
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: superhero thing, but Phoenix Jones isn't most people. When I

606
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: visited Phoenix in Seattle, he agreed to take me on

607
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: one of his patrols so I could see firsthand how

608
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: he fights crime these days. I am here to pick

609
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: up Phoenix Jones at his apartment it is when I

610
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 1: am on the summer one, but to go on patrol.

611
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 1: I actually ended up going on three different patrols with Phoenix,

612
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 1: and every single time we had to use my rental

613
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: car because Phoenix was having various car troubles. On one

614
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: of those patrols, the plan had been to begin the

615
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 1: night by doing a homeless handout, which surprised me given

616
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: Phoenix has past disdain for this type of superhero work.

617
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: But in the end it never happened because Phoenix claimed

618
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 1: his car got broken into and someone stole all the

619
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,840
Speaker 1: stuff we were going to give out, so we had

620
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: to go with Plan B. What's the plan for tonight?

621
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: So we're going to Capitol Hill. We're gonna check that

622
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: out and safely have people on foot walking around. Then

623
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: if Capitohill's lame, we're going to check out the second

624
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 1: and third and Pike and Aaria. We're gonna get out

625
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: and walk around there a little bit. We never ended

626
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,840
Speaker 1: up getting out of the car that night. Phoenix was

627
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 1: just in superhero casual. He wasn't wearing his full super suit,

628
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 1: just the molded breastplate with the gold chevron and a

629
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: black leather trench coat and helmet so bullet proof. I

630
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: still got all my stuff on. I'm a little less

631
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 1: NiFe re sistant, but he had stuff time. We can

632
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: still go fight crime. The stakes were very high for Phoenix.

633
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: He told me because he's on probation, there can't be

634
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: any slip ups, pepper spray related or otherwise, because if

635
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: he gets into any trouble, he says, he will go

636
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: straight to prison for two years. You're a journalist, right,

637
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 1: so if we if we stopped and we stop a

638
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: crime and it goes badly, right, they're not going to

639
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: rescue you. There's no legal ramifications for you. But me,

640
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 1: I'm on probation. I've been asked to stop several different times.

641
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:09,879
Speaker 1: It's like every time I come out, my entire life

642
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:16,720
Speaker 1: could possibly be on the line. With Phoenix behind the wheel,

643
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: we made our way through the darkened streets of the city,

644
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: keeping our eyes peeled for signs of trouble. When you

645
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 1: start like a patrol and I'll like drive around and

646
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: sort of feel it out, and I'll hit a spot

647
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 1: like feels like this could be that spot, you know

648
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:32,720
Speaker 1: what I mean. But we weren't having much luck finding

649
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: any crime. What percentage of patrols would you say you

650
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: end up stopping a crap? Mm hm, So I would

651
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 1: say this on average, probably stop about two crimes a

652
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: week or do with citizens help, like where I do

653
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,280
Speaker 1: something that's like above helping, right, But it's not always

654
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: stopping a crime, and that's not always on patrol, right,

655
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 1: Like today I fixed that tire for that person dressed

656
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: up super suited up Phoenix Jones death right, But it

657
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: didn't have anything to do with patrol. Right. Phoenix told

658
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,240
Speaker 1: me the reason he was late to tonight's patrols because

659
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: he and his son had pulled over to help a

660
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: stranded motorist. Apparently he'd been wearing part of his supersuit,

661
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: and his son had worn a Batman mask. Phoenix had

662
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: lots of stories like this. He told me that the

663
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: day before he had another heroic encounter. This time he

664
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 1: had saved his neighbor's life. One of my neighbors overdosed

665
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 1: on drugs had a reaction that have CPR. Phoenix's need

666
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: to help people impact every part of his life, even

667
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 1: things like mundane trips to the grocery store. I went

668
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 1: to the check in scan and I was trying to

669
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: scan thing, and this thing would not scan my stuff. Now,

670
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: US civilians would probably just head over to another register,

671
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: but for Phoenix, this was his time to shine. He

672
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: told me that when the checkout clerk didn't know how

673
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 1: to fix the scanner, he got down on his hands

674
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: and knees to find the problem. He even called up

675
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: the manufacturer himself to get the reset code for the machine.

676
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: I popped it in, the machine worked, and I was like,

677
00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: They're problem solved, and I'm like, now, you don't do

678
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,560
Speaker 1: it next time, Phoenix said. His girlfriend, who was with

679
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: him at the time, did not swoon or look into

680
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 1: his eyes and say, oh, Phoenix, You're my hero. She

681
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 1: was more like, can we just get the hell out

682
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: of here and get on with our day. And like,

683
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 1: what what would you prefer me to do? You know?

684
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: She's like, well, I guess I prefer you just to

685
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: go another machine. I'm like, okay, so what besides obscating

686
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 1: my responsibility to help my people, what other than that

687
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: would you like me to do? I can see how

688
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 1: it would be hard to be with someone like Phoenix,

689
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: who seems to be addicted to being the hero. I

690
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,160
Speaker 1: think people love uncompromising characters, right, and just because I'm

691
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: an uncompromising character, people are drawn to that. But if

692
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 1: they really understood what that entails, I don't think they

693
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: would like it very much, you know what I mean.

694
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 1: Phoenix is well aware that fighting crime can damage his

695
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: personal relationships, but in another of our interviews, he told

696
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: me he couldn't quit even if he wanted to. I

697
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: think I have a compulsion to do the things that

698
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: I believe in, and I don't care about the cost.

699
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: Whatever makes me stop bad guys. It's a compulsion I

700
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: cannot fight. I don't know what it is. I can't

701
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: put my finger on it, but it's a compulsion that

702
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: could cost me everything that I could not stop doing.

703
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 1: I think that compulsion was one of the things that

704
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: made Phoenix as successful and as famous as he was

705
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: at his peak. But alongside that compulsion to take down

706
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 1: bad guys is Phoenix's compulsion to be better than everyone

707
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: around him, and I think his intense competitiveness and his

708
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: ego made it impossible for him to live up to

709
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: his own ideals of what a superhero is. And even

710
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 1: though I believe his heart is in the right place,

711
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,880
Speaker 1: there were moments when I was with Phoenix where I

712
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: came away thinking this guy is just an asshole. One

713
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: of those moments happened after we'd finished up a patrol

714
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: and I had to give Phoenix a ride to go

715
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: pick up a car he was borrowing. Sorry about this

716
00:43:53,760 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: going around circles. It's definitely not my fault. Hello, alright, cool,

717
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 1: I have to be on the right street, but the

718
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 1: address you gave me does not take me here. Frustration. Coincidentally,

719
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 1: the person he was borrowing the car from was his neighbor,

720
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 1: the one whose life he said he had saved from

721
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: a drug overtose. Anyway, this guy had texted Phoenix the

722
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 1: address where we were supposed to meet him, but the

723
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: guy was drunk and sent the wrong address. This was

724
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:29,560
Speaker 1: around three in the morning, and when we got to

725
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: where we were supposed to meet him, he was nowhere

726
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: to be found. So Phoenix started honking the car horn

727
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 1: so his friend could hear where we were and come

728
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: find us. Unfortunately, the batteries in my recorder had just

729
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 1: died and I was in the process of replacing them

730
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 1: when this sonically rich moment happened. We were parked right

731
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: outside of an apartment and I called Phoenix out for

732
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 1: what I thought was an asshole thing to do. I

733
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: remember saying, there are people all around us trying to sleep,

734
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: and blasting your horn outside their window at three am

735
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 1: is a dickhead move. By the time I was able

736
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 1: to start recording again, Phoenix was in the middle of

737
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: defending himself. So I don't know why that it's not

738
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: chill like. Even when it's explained to me, it still doesn't.

739
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: It still doesn't like change my mind on it. It

740
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: just makes me think, like, well, if you don't like

741
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 1: horn hawk, you shouldn't live in right next will road

742
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: like that. No one will ever convince me. But honking

743
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 1: your horn outside someone's home at three am so you

744
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,840
Speaker 1: can find your drunk friend is an acceptable thing to do,

745
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 1: but instead of Phoenix admitting that it's a dickhead move,

746
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: he blamed the people sleeping inside their homes. It's not

747
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: like this is a grave injustice or anything, but I

748
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: think Phoenix's attitude about it says a lot about who

749
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 1: he is. The thing I find so infuriating about Phoenix

750
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,360
Speaker 1: that he claims to be out here in the streets

751
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: because he wants to serve and protect the citizens of

752
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: his city, unless he needs to find a drunk friend

753
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 1: at three am, in which case, fun those people they

754
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 1: should go find another street to live on. I think

755
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: his willingness to disrupt these people those lives while also

756
00:46:01,719 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 1: claiming to care so much about them that he puts

757
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: his life in danger for them, it's hypocrisy. And this

758
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: is just one small example of many in which I

759
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: believe Phoenix is a hypocrite. That's the thing that bothers

760
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:18,479
Speaker 1: me the most about Phoenix. I don't think there's anything

761
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: morally wrong with using drugs, so I don't really care

762
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 1: whether or not Phoenix does drugs, and I personally believe

763
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: all drugs should be decriminalized and treated as a public

764
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 1: health issue, not a criminal one, so I don't have

765
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: a problem with Phoenix's small time coke and ecstasy deals

766
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: on their own. The thing I just like about Phoenix

767
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: is that he acts like he's better than everyone, that

768
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: he claims to live up to a higher moral code

769
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: than everyone around him, which I think is total bullshit.

770
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 1: I do think he does more than most to help

771
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 1: the people in his community, and I think he deserves

772
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: credit for that, But I found so many instances where

773
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 1: he lied to me that it makes it hard to

774
00:46:54,480 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: believe his endless tales of heroic deeds. Though. There was

775
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: this one moment when we were out on patrol and

776
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: we came across a concrete piece of evidence of at

777
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,759
Speaker 1: least one time when Phoenix really was the kind of

778
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 1: superhero you read about in comic books. We were doing

779
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: a U turn at an intersection when our headlights illuminated

780
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: a mural on the side of a fence. There, in

781
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: bright colors was a painting of Phoenix, drones and his

782
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: full supersuited glory. There, I am. Yeah, it's Purple over

783
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: there getting pushed on the swing by be right there. Yeah,

784
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: it's random. In the mural, Phoenix is pushing his ex

785
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: girlfriend purple rain on a swing. They're painted to look

786
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,720
Speaker 1: like kids. Behind the mural was a playground. The building

787
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: used to be a daycare. Phoenix had told me the

788
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 1: story of the mural during one of our interviews. I

789
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: stopped the building from catching on fire. I smashed in

790
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: the building and I put the fire out when the

791
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,160
Speaker 1: building was burning where the children's daycare is in the like, oh,

792
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: look at this cool mural of these little kids. Know

793
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 1: that mural is there because that building is there, because

794
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: I'm here, Like, you can't forget what we did, even midnight, Jack,

795
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,359
Speaker 1: even though Caballero, because that guy men, Jack was cool

796
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 1: enough to go run back to the car and if

797
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: you bring me back to the fire extinguisher, so I

798
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 1: only had to stomp out one floor of fires. He

799
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:21,320
Speaker 1: did that. It was real, So thanks Jack. I dedicated

800
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,399
Speaker 1: to a decade of my life to doing dangerous real

801
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 1: life ship. As we sat there staring at the mural

802
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 1: and the headlights, Phoenix was feeling reflective and seemed genuinely

803
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 1: sad that more people didn't talk about these moments in

804
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 1: his life when he was a real hero, rather than

805
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: focusing on his fall from Chris. I really did not

806
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: think that my life would turn out this way, you know.

807
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: I mean, like if I could have redrawn it, It's

808
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 1: not quite what I had in my mind. What did

809
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: you have in your mind? I mean I have I

810
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: have one drug charge, but I mean like nothing of

811
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,919
Speaker 1: any consequence. Right. I imagine that people would talk about

812
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: my work. It's shocking that people don't. It makes me

813
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: almost feel less. Uh well, I feel like your work

814
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: is too unconventional for people to wrap their heads around it.

815
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,439
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know what's unconvincaal about helping people

816
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: like it's people is one thing, but putting on a

817
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: superhero costume and calling yourself a real life superhero is

818
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: a totally different thing. Agreed, but it's still the same.

819
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: Suber often doesn't change the work. At the end of

820
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 1: the patrol that night, Phoenix apologized for not finding any

821
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: crimes to thwart. Sorry, we didn't find any crime. It's

822
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: a random conversations. Yeah, we never did come across any

823
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: crime during any of the patrols that he took me on.

824
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: We also didn't help anyone. We didn't administer any first

825
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,439
Speaker 1: aid or hand out any food or socks or water

826
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: like Justin's service, and Red Ranger had done on their patrol.

827
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: I said good night to Phoenix, and I assume it

828
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: was the last time I'd ever see him. This was

829
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 1: my last reporting trip to Seattle, and I was heading

830
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: back home to Los Angeles in a couple of days,

831
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: and we had no plans to meet up again. All right,

832
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: signing off, But then a funny thing happened. When I

833
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 1: got back to my hotel, I noticed that Phoenix had

834
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,800
Speaker 1: left his helmet on the backseat of my car. So

835
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: I texted him and he said he would stop by

836
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: the next day to pick it up. Just before the

837
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: sun came up, I got another text from Phoenix. It

838
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: said three to one, then another text that said three

839
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: minus two equals one. It was one of his number codes,

840
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: the kind he told me he sends to his friends

841
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 1: to let them know he's thinking about them. The next day,

842
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 1: Phoenix came over to my hotel. He was parked on

843
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: the street outside. I came out and opened the passenger

844
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 1: side door of his car and handed him the helmet.

845
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: And then I looked down and saw it plane his day,

846
00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:55,399
Speaker 1: just sitting there and the arm rest of the car

847
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,360
Speaker 1: door a small bag of drugs. At least I assume

848
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 1: it was drugs. It wasn't much, just a bit of

849
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: white powder inside one of those tiny zip blocked bags,

850
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: the kind only drugs come in. I held it up

851
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: and I looked at Phoenix and said, you should be

852
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: careful with this stuff. It's illegal and you're on felony probation.

853
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: He seemed very surprised and laughed nervously. Then he took

854
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: the bag from me throughout the window and drove off,

855
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: And that was the last time I ever saw Phoenix Jones. Now,

856
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,760
Speaker 1: the thing is, it wasn't Phoenix's car. He was borrowing

857
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 1: it from his neighbor. So there's a good chance that

858
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: Phoenix had no idea it was there, But that probably

859
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: wouldn't have mattered to the police. After I got back

860
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 1: from that last trip to Seattle, I looked into what

861
00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: Phoenix had said about his probation, and I wasn't able

862
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: to verify if it was true. According to the court documents,

863
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,720
Speaker 1: the sentence he received did not include commune any custody,

864
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: and the King County Community Corrections Division said he isn't

865
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,479
Speaker 1: under their supervision for the charges. But whatever the terms

866
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:11,320
Speaker 1: of his release are, if Phoenix got pulled over and

867
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 1: the cops found drugs in the car he was driving.

868
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: I don't think the outcome would be good at the

869
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 1: end of the day. I do think that Phoenix is

870
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: a liar, and maybe he conned a few of his

871
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: supporters and friends out of some cash. We have yet

872
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: to see the super suit the Phoenix said he would

873
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: build after reportedly collecting over three thousand dollars and go

874
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: fund me and sure, the guy is super arrogant, admittedly uncompromising,

875
00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: and also a total hypocrite. But there is no part

876
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: of me that thinks he should be in jail. I

877
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,439
Speaker 1: do believe there's a good chance that he might slip

878
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 1: up and end up serving time, largely because his personal

879
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 1: life seems so out of control. In one of our interviews,

880
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: he was telling me about the court mandated therapy sessions

881
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,919
Speaker 1: that he goes to. Do you feel like you've gotten

882
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 1: anything out of therapy? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I've learned what

883
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:08,640
Speaker 1: is wrong with other people a lot. Phoenix told me

884
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,720
Speaker 1: that his therapist had her own theory about why Phoenix

885
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 1: has so many struggles in his life. You feel like

886
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: you're out of control of your world because your family

887
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,319
Speaker 1: got rid of you. Maybe, but my family did get

888
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: rid of me. That's a real thing. And if I

889
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:22,960
Speaker 1: feel out of control, maybe you should talk to those

890
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 1: motherfuckers who put kids on a doorstep, not talk to

891
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 1: the kid who make sure other kids don't end up

892
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 1: on a doorstep. That ain't a problem to me. There's

893
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 1: no logic gap from me there. You're not gonna convince

894
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 1: me into feeling better. I'll never feel better ever, and

895
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 1: I don't want to. It's almost as if underneath his

896
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: super suit, Phoenix has this protective layer. This reflectsive attitude

897
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: that surfaces anytime someone challenges him. I'll leave it to

898
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 1: Phoenix and his therapist to figure out why Phoenix feels

899
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 1: this need to be above reproach. I do hope he

900
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 1: works it out. I think it would do him some

901
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 1: good to listen to criticism and think honestly about how

902
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: his actions affect other people. I think that would make

903
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: him better at crime fighting and improve his personal relationships.

904
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: And I know that's not just an important thing for

905
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 1: Phoenix himself, because he's also a parent. Which brings me

906
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:13,840
Speaker 1: to one last story that I'd like to tell you

907
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: before I bid farewell. It's a story that Phoenix told

908
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:22,759
Speaker 1: me about his twelve year old son. He was at

909
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,920
Speaker 1: the park one day after school, just hanging out with

910
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 1: some friends, and he noticed a suspicious looking guy standing

911
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: outside a liquor store holding a knife. The guy went

912
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 1: into the liquor store, and Phoenix's son walked over and

913
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 1: peered into the store through the glass door and saw

914
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,839
Speaker 1: this guy robbed the woman working behind the register. She's

915
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: an old middle Eastern lady. She's like seventy as a

916
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: mobility scooter. She's like defenseless. Sounds like, I don't think so.

917
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: So he goes over his store. He waits by the

918
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: door and the door slides both ways open right. I

919
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 1: love his ingenuity. So he pulls the door this way

920
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 1: so it's opening towards the front right, and when the

921
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,000
Speaker 1: guy tries to run out of the store, he just bang.

922
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 1: He hit the dude straight in the face with the door.

923
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:09,879
Speaker 1: The alcohol goes down, the knife flops out of his hand.

924
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 1: I said, Chase is this guy and now he's got

925
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: no knife, and he turns around to face off with

926
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: my son. My son just straight kicked him straight in

927
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:21,720
Speaker 1: the face. Matt. Shortly after the police arrived on the scene.

928
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 1: A cop show up and he's just karate and kicked

929
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:25,960
Speaker 1: this dude down the hill. And then the girl in

930
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,800
Speaker 1: the store said that, you know, he'd hit it with

931
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 1: the door, and they cracked the glass of the door

932
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: in the store. So the police were saying that they

933
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: were going to charge him with breaking the glass, and

934
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 1: the woman was like, absolutely not. That guy had a

935
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 1: knife and he came into my store. The store clerk

936
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: convinced the police not to charge Phoenix's son with a

937
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 1: crime for breaking the door, and instead, Phoenix says, the

938
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,239
Speaker 1: cops gave his son a token of their appreciation for

939
00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: his act of civilian heroism. The police gave him this

940
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: like little crime stopping pendant. It's really cool. I'll show you.

941
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 1: I'll pull it up. It's really cool. And as his

942
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 1: first crime he had ever stopped. You know, at the time,

943
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:06,759
Speaker 1: the cops didn't know it was Phoenix's son. They came

944
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:08,400
Speaker 1: by the house to give him the little pendant and

945
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,680
Speaker 1: talked to about it, you know. And when they came

946
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: by the house, I was there, and the cup was like,

947
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 1: oh man. He's like, I don't know what my boss

948
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: is gonna think of this, Phoenix says. The police told

949
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 1: his son he could keep the award, but that he

950
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 1: had to keep it a secret. There was a definite

951
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 1: conversation between the police and my attorney because they in

952
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: no way endorsed my behavior, which is hilarious because they

953
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,399
Speaker 1: endorsed my behavior entirely right, because my son used every

954
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 1: skill I've ever taught him. It's not that the fun crime.

955
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:39,680
Speaker 1: It's that he recognized the same thing that I recognized

956
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: and put the responsibility on himself. He's not the kind

957
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 1: of person that sees a problem and goes, oh, that's

958
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 1: for somebody else. For that person is not my person.

959
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 1: Like he sees something, takes responsibility for it, and fixes it.

960
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: That's what I love about it. It's not that he

961
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: stopped the crime, it's that he did it for someone else.

962
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Would you want him to have

963
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: the life that you do? No? I would never want

964
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: anyone to life I have. Was this the origin story

965
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 1: of Seattle's next great real life superhero? With this twelve

966
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: year old boy following his father's footsteps and grow up

967
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 1: to become a masked adventurer, a defender of the innocent

968
00:57:32,560 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 1: and protector of the downtrodden. Maybe he would even be

969
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:39,439
Speaker 1: better at it than his father because he'd had loving

970
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: parents who looked after him and was not burdened by

971
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 1: the baggage of being abandoned as a child. Maybe he

972
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 1: would build his own supersuit and find some like minded

973
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 1: friends and spend years training for a righteous goal. Maybe

974
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: he would become the hero that Seattle deserves. Or maybe

975
00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: this is just an they're made up story, like the

976
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: kind you'd read in a comic book. The Superhero Complex

977
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: is hosted and written by Me, David Weinberg and reported

978
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: by Me, Amalia Sortland and Caroline Thornhum. Production from Mamalia

979
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: Shortland and Caroline Thornhum. Sean Glenn, Max O'Brien and David

980
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: Waters are executive producers. Fact checking by Andrew Schwartz. Production

981
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:39,840
Speaker 1: management from Shari Houston, Frankie Taylor and Charlotte Wolf. Sound design,

982
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:44,320
Speaker 1: mixing and scoring by Nicholas Alexander and Daniel Kempson. Music

983
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 1: supervision by Nicholas Alexander and David Waters. Original music is

984
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: composed by Paul Housden. Special thanks to Peter Tangan, Willard Foxton,

985
00:58:55,760 --> 00:59:00,440
Speaker 1: Matt O'Mara, Katrina Norville, Beth and Macaluso, Rin Roe, Zimbaum,

986
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 1: Shelby Shenkman, and All the team at U t A.

987
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:09,880
Speaker 1: For more from Novel, visit novel dot audio m