Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, and welcome to the show. I'm joined today
Speaker 2: by Gordayen, who's a journalist from Kurdistan who's based in Germany,
Speaker 2: and we're going to discuss the bombing of Iran. How
Speaker 2: you got in.
Speaker 3: Hello, Thank you again for inviting me, and yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: ready to talk about what's happening in Iran right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's a lot, a lot is happening. I
Speaker 2: mean we should begin, I suppose by if someone happens
Speaker 2: to have been avoiding the news and has somehow managed
Speaker 2: to avoid learning what is happening, can we give like
Speaker 2: a small summary of the events that have happened since
Speaker 2: Friday night US time.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was early morning, around eight nine in
Speaker 3: the morning in Iran time, that the Israeli army attacked
Speaker 3: the center of Tehran where Alikamani's house, which is known
Speaker 3: as Beraberti, the Leader's house, was located and apparently the
Speaker 3: Iranian officials were having a very important meeting there. And
Speaker 3: following that there were more attacks across Tehran and other cities.
Speaker 3: And by night as the attacks were going on. As
Speaker 3: the strikes were going on, Benna Montanio came on TV
Speaker 3: and he said that I have some news, I have
Speaker 3: some information that confirms that Alikamani is dead, which caused
Speaker 3: a lot of panic and excitement among the people, and
Speaker 3: everybody was really excited and they were waiting for this
Speaker 3: to be confirmed. And then some people came out and said, no,
Speaker 3: it's not true. But after some hours the Iranian state media,
Speaker 3: the TV channels all started confirming that. So following that
Speaker 3: the attacks did not stop. They were still going on,
Speaker 3: and then the American Army also joined. This is a
Speaker 3: completely coordinated cooperation between US and Israel. So as they
Speaker 3: were attacking different IIERGC bases and the facilities belonging to
Speaker 3: the government, the Iranian government started attacking the neighboring countries.
Speaker 3: They attacked UAE, they attacked Katar, they attacked Bahrain, they
Speaker 3: attacked Iraq, and they attacked also Iraqi Curtistan region. And
Speaker 3: they were just mainly targeting the US basis or facilities
Speaker 3: belonging to the US, but soon after they started attacking
Speaker 3: civilian buildings like hotels, like just randomly attacking different directions.
Speaker 3: And at the same time they also started sending missiles
Speaker 3: and drones towards Israel, which majority of them were intercepted.
Speaker 3: So they've been attacking these neighboring countries since the beginning
Speaker 3: of this war, and they have been specifically targeting Iraqi
Speaker 3: Curtistan because first, the US has a lot of big
Speaker 3: military bases there in Iraq and Iraqi Kuddistan region. And
Speaker 3: at the same time they are the Kurdish parties from
Speaker 3: Iran who are based there and the regime has been
Speaker 3: seeing them as one of the major threats since decades.
Speaker 3: So since the beginning of this whole war, they have
Speaker 3: been targeting these Kurdish parties a lot, and they also
Speaker 3: attacked there is a refugee base that the families of
Speaker 3: the Kurdish forces basically lived there. They also attacked there,
Speaker 3: but luckily nobody was killed or injured, but some buildings
Speaker 3: were damaged, and they attacked erville with drones and missiles
Speaker 3: several times, which were all mainly intercepted by the US
Speaker 3: air defense systems because of the remainings of the missiles
Speaker 3: and the drones that were falling down from the scuise.
Speaker 3: Some people were lightly injured or some buildings were damaged,
Speaker 3: but yeah, still it's a crazy thing to see because
Speaker 3: previously in the past years, Iran had attacked or built
Speaker 3: several times and also other regions, but the US or
Speaker 3: the other countries that were there, they didn't really intercept
Speaker 3: the drones or the missiles. There's also something new that
Speaker 3: we're seeing. It's also important to know that Iran has
Speaker 3: also attacked Cypress, like British military bases were targeted there,
Speaker 3: but the drones or the missiles were sent from Lebanon.
Speaker 3: What's going on right now is the full scare war,
Speaker 3: and I think when you look at it, it's nothing
Speaker 3: like what we've seen before. If you want to compare
Speaker 3: it to what happened in Iraq the US invasion, this
Speaker 3: is completely different. I think it's even larger than that
Speaker 3: because Iran is a very big country and there are
Speaker 3: hundreds or maybe thousands of points across the country that
Speaker 3: have been targeted with heavy bombings inside Tehran, around Tehran.
Speaker 3: It's also really incredible to know because the amount of
Speaker 3: intel that you need for this is also really a lot.
Speaker 3: I've seen videos, I've seen footage, I've seen reports that
Speaker 3: some random checkpoints on some remote places, especially in Curtison,
Speaker 3: we're targeted. So this is also something that shows that
Speaker 3: how really coordinated and well planned this attack and this
Speaker 3: war is I want to jump into something because a
Speaker 3: lot of people are really focused on these major attacks,
Speaker 3: major developments like yeah, they're attacking Dubai, they're attacking Doha.
Speaker 3: These are all happening, and of course the civilians they're
Speaker 3: also in danger. I think somebody in Doha was killed
Speaker 3: in the first day. It was just a civilian that
Speaker 3: was killed by the remainings of a massoul or a drone.
Speaker 3: And this has made things really hard for the people
Speaker 3: on the round. Many people are trapped in the airports
Speaker 3: on the borders, so this is this is something that's
Speaker 3: happening to the people outside of a round, but inside
Speaker 3: Iran there is massive bombings everywhere wherever the IERGYC or
Speaker 3: the intelligence service has a facility. And at the same time,
Speaker 3: the regime has cut off the internet, even though the
Speaker 3: normal phone lines barely work, and it's just so hard
Speaker 3: and almost impossible to get really precise information about what's
Speaker 3: happening in the cities in the and the towns around,
Speaker 3: just like what happened in the in the early January,
Speaker 3: like during the process. Only a few people have access
Speaker 3: to the internet and it's very limited. Yeah, they share
Speaker 3: some videos with channels and like with news agencies, but
Speaker 3: it's very limited. For example, in my hometown today, some
Speaker 3: of the major iergycy bases and intelligence facilities that were
Speaker 3: some of the most important ones in western side of Iran,
Speaker 3: or as we call it, Iranian Critisonal or Rochalot, they
Speaker 3: were all bombed and I've been trying to contact people
Speaker 3: to see what happened exactly. I'm sure that there are
Speaker 3: civilians killed because the regime also has put all these
Speaker 3: bases inside the cities, near parks, near hospitals, near schools,
Speaker 3: near just random houses in the city, So a lot
Speaker 3: of people are possibly killed, but we don't know how
Speaker 3: many who are they. So this is this is also
Speaker 3: like not just in my city, in other cities to
Speaker 3: it's it's the same. This is also something that a
Speaker 3: lot of people are not talking about. But again, this
Speaker 3: is war, and the bombings are so heavy, and they're
Speaker 3: all being carried out with really advanced weapons, and it's
Speaker 3: just so hard. And when I talk to the people
Speaker 3: outside of Iran, the people in Europe, like some of
Speaker 3: my friends relatives, everybody's worried that what if one of
Speaker 3: my relatives, what if one of my one of my
Speaker 3: friends get get killed randomly on the street. But because
Speaker 3: of this that people are seeing this also on the news.
Speaker 3: At least I know this from my family because I
Speaker 3: was able to talk to them two nights ago. Everybody's
Speaker 3: staying home, they have enough food for a few weeks,
Speaker 3: and they're just watching the news. They don't go out. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they're just trying to stay safe. But at the same time,
Speaker 3: in major cities like for me, for example, the people
Speaker 3: who have a house outside of the city or in
Speaker 3: a village, or if they have relatives outside of the city,
Speaker 3: they have moved out because it's generally safer. There are
Speaker 3: not many IRGC bases or like government government buildings or
Speaker 3: whatever in the villages and smaller towns, so this is
Speaker 3: also happening, and people are trying to stay safe as
Speaker 3: much as possible. And yeah, this is something that's going on.
Speaker 3: And at the same time, when I talk to the people,
Speaker 3: I mean I haven't been able to properly talk to
Speaker 3: anyone because the internet is really bad. But like I
Speaker 3: talked to my family and they told me that the
Speaker 3: food prices are really, really, really high, and it's really
Speaker 3: hard to buy food now because everybody's panicking and there
Speaker 3: are shortages, like there's some items cannot be found, some
Speaker 3: like essential items like I don't know, oil, meat and
Speaker 3: rice and things like that. It's it's too hard to
Speaker 3: find in the market. And a lot of people are
Speaker 3: going to the to the gas stations to get some
Speaker 3: gas and to be prepared if something happens. But yeah,
Speaker 3: so this is also something that's going on, and people
Speaker 3: are worried about that what if it's it's going to
Speaker 3: get bigger, if it's going to scale it, so, like
Speaker 3: how are they going to deal with all these shortages.
Speaker 3: There is one more topic that I want to talk about.
Speaker 3: I also wrote about it a little bit earlier. I
Speaker 3: published some text. It's the topic of or soldiers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, explain that to people.
Speaker 3: The civilians who are forced into the military service. This
Speaker 3: is also like a very sensitive topic because there are
Speaker 3: probably thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of young men
Speaker 3: who are about eighteen years old that are forced into
Speaker 3: the military service because it's mandatory in Iran, and they
Speaker 3: are forced into the service. And there are also in
Speaker 3: these military bases, and the military bases are being targeted
Speaker 3: non stop, and there is a possibility, I mean not
Speaker 3: the possibility of course, it's surreal today. One person, a
Speaker 3: young man from Curtison, was confirmed that he was killed,
Speaker 3: but I'm sure that there are more because we don't
Speaker 3: have a proper internet connection so we cannot like get
Speaker 3: all the information. But these military bases are being also targeted,
Speaker 3: and of course I think a lot of them might
Speaker 3: get killed or injured. And just from my own family,
Speaker 3: one of my cousins who is twenty four, he was
Speaker 3: also forced into this because he wanted to open a business.
Speaker 3: And like in Iran, a lot of people also maybe
Speaker 3: I should give a little bit of context, like in Iran,
Speaker 3: if you want to open a business, if you want
Speaker 3: to have a passport or things like that, you have
Speaker 3: to serve in the army and we'll give you that.
Speaker 3: So yeah, he just he was listed, like I don't know,
Speaker 3: about five months ago or so, and then he wasn't
Speaker 3: in a military base between Tabriz and Urmia, and their
Speaker 3: base was targeted. Luckily, the slipping quarters were not targeted.
Speaker 3: It was just where the commanders were I think staying.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean I couldn't talk to him, but
Speaker 3: he told my cousin who I called like two days ago,
Speaker 3: he said that the moment they was bombed, everybody just
Speaker 3: ran out, and then everybody went back in and they
Speaker 3: took all their belongings and backpacks and they just left
Speaker 3: the military base and they went home without telling the
Speaker 3: wiser or something, and they were not they're they're not
Speaker 3: going to go back there anyways. So this is also
Speaker 3: something that I am personally worried about. All those young
Speaker 3: men who are forced to be in the military basis,
Speaker 3: and they are absolutely not a part of the regime.
Speaker 3: There are just civilians who are forced into this, So
Speaker 3: that that's also something that I think it's it's not
Speaker 3: really discussed because the whole focus right now is just
Speaker 3: on the major attacks. Which place was targeted or like
Speaker 3: which I don't know commander was killed or things like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's take a little break for advertisements and we'll
Speaker 2: come back, because I'd like to discuss more of that,
Speaker 2: like the structure of the Iranian state and who is
Speaker 2: and it's not like part of it. Okay, we are back,
Speaker 2: So I think that will be a really good place
Speaker 2: for us to do some deep dives. Would be people
Speaker 2: understand this part of the world through the lens of states,
Speaker 2: because they understand the world through the lens of states
Speaker 2: because they have been raised in a state system. But
Speaker 2: I don't think that that it's a particularly it's not
Speaker 2: useful to see everybody who lives in the Iranian state
Speaker 2: as part of the Iranian state. It doesn't actually give
Speaker 2: us a good grasp on reality. So perhaps you could explain,
Speaker 2: first of all, perhaps explaining the structures of the Iranian
Speaker 2: state when it comes to like, there are pro regime
Speaker 2: militias right there are the ILGC, and then we have
Speaker 2: like the leadership, many of whom are now dead, some
Speaker 2: of whom we know, some of whom we think are dead.
Speaker 2: But then we also have and I know you and
Speaker 2: I have spoken about this before, but it's worth explaining again, right,
Speaker 2: Like Iran is the ethnically diverse country, so we have
Speaker 2: people who are ethnically excluded from power. We also have
Speaker 2: people within the majority ethnicity Persian, people who are not
Speaker 2: pro ratime. So could you perhaps explain like those structures
Speaker 2: that exist. And then you and I spoke about this
Speaker 2: a little bit before we were recording, But many of
Speaker 2: the facilities of the regimes, armed forces and repressive forces
Speaker 2: are right in the middle of town, right right next
Speaker 2: to civilian building. So perhaps we could explain the consequences
Speaker 2: of that for civilians as bombs of falling on these facilities.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so if I want to explain how the Iranian
Speaker 3: state system is, I would simply compare it to a
Speaker 3: full monarchy, but with a different label. Yeah, there's kink
Speaker 3: who owns all of the power, and there are the
Speaker 3: people who are around him m hm that also share
Speaker 3: some bits of power with him. And there is the
Speaker 3: army that is a full amount of the leader or
Speaker 3: the people around him. So this is simply something like
Speaker 3: that if I want to make it very very simple.
Speaker 3: But the Iranian state structure is actually quite complicated. You know.
Speaker 3: They follow some sort of religious hierarchy that the Supreme
Speaker 3: Leader is the representative of God on earth and he
Speaker 3: is leading the Muslim nation until the Ima Mahti, the
Speaker 3: savior of the world, comes from the skies and saves
Speaker 3: the world and brings peace. So this is what they
Speaker 3: actually believe. So the Supreme Leader is actually the person
Speaker 3: who approves everything. Yeah, there is normal parliament with the
Speaker 3: representative of the people, but at the same time there
Speaker 3: is another type of religious parliament that decides on the
Speaker 3: interests of the regime, which consists of some high level
Speaker 3: clerics or the molas, who are on a higher social level.
Speaker 3: And at the same time, there is also a council
Speaker 3: of twelve people, six of them are molas, six of
Speaker 3: them are like lawyers and jurists that they are monitoring
Speaker 3: the let's say, the whole political process in the government.
Speaker 3: But whatever happens when you see that, Yeah, this is
Speaker 3: on paper and theory, this is a system that could
Speaker 3: possibly work. But all of these organizations or these parts
Speaker 3: of the regions or layers of the regime that I mentioned,
Speaker 3: all of them they follow the supreme leader and whatever
Speaker 3: they do has to be approved by him. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about like I don't know, the things
Speaker 3: that are decided in a city council or like very lolol.
Speaker 3: I'm talking about the national interests or things like that,
Speaker 3: or who's going to be the next president for example.
Speaker 3: But basically that parliamentary system or those counselings are basically
Speaker 3: non functional. They're just there for a show. And at
Speaker 3: the same time, especially in the past decades, the iergy
Speaker 3: see it's not only a military force that it's not
Speaker 3: a militia that follows the leader. It's a whole organized
Speaker 3: and complicated structure that owns the economy, owns all the
Speaker 3: institutions in Iran and controls all of them. We're talking
Speaker 3: about the oil sector, we're talking about industry, we're talking
Speaker 3: about agriculture. I mean, almost everything is owned by them.
Speaker 3: And I ergy is a network of countless high level
Speaker 3: commanders or even let's say non military person that are
Speaker 3: that are all working together and they are running the
Speaker 3: country somehow, and of course even if the leader is dead,
Speaker 3: they still have some structures to continue to carry carry on.
Speaker 3: And this is how how the structure is in Iran.
Speaker 3: And I think I think this is what makes Iran
Speaker 3: very very different from other states and in the Middle East.
Speaker 3: And it's something that makes run also very different from
Speaker 3: what for example, if you want to compare it to
Speaker 3: Sudamhossein system or in in Libya or in Syria, it's
Speaker 3: it's very different because the IRGC has put its hands
Speaker 3: and roots everywhere in every institution. We're talking about schools,
Speaker 3: we're talking about universities, we're talking about hospitals, we're talking
Speaker 3: about anything that you can imagine even in a post
Speaker 3: office like we were talking about this earlier, So that
Speaker 3: there is like in every governmental institution, from universities to
Speaker 3: schools and hospitals. Ii ERGC always has a specific office
Speaker 3: in every facility. It's supposed to recruit people to join
Speaker 3: the resistance, but in fact it's just a it's just
Speaker 3: an office to observe the people who are there or
Speaker 3: the people who are going there for their daily matters.
Speaker 3: So they have control over everything, and that's what makes
Speaker 3: this regime very very structured and very hard to just
Speaker 3: topple in two nights. So that's why they are still resisting.
Speaker 3: There are still fighting back. There are still even though
Speaker 3: Israel and America have destroyed majority of their military basis
Speaker 3: and facilities, but they are still fighting back. This is
Speaker 3: also important to understand, I think, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like with it being a little bit unclearly,
Speaker 2: like who is still alive, especially in that top end
Speaker 2: of the pyramid, right, Like we know hamah and I
Speaker 2: is dead, or we know we're pretty sure he's dead.
Speaker 2: Ran has announced he's dead. We know that other people
Speaker 2: within that religious leadership and political leadership structure are dead.
Speaker 2: We know that they struck the Assembly of Expert today,
Speaker 2: which could have removed a good number but more of
Speaker 2: those religious leaders. Like what they did in Venezuela was
Speaker 2: that they found somebody who was no less repressive, but
Speaker 2: was amenable to doing what they wanted right specifically with resources,
Speaker 2: specifically with oil. You know, we run the risk of
Speaker 2: a similar thing happening in it Ran, right of like
Speaker 2: someone within the IRGC being like, we will do what
Speaker 2: you need us to do with oil as long as
Speaker 2: you allow us to continue murdering the Iranian people as
Speaker 2: much as we wish. Like, that's a real worry. They
Speaker 2: will find someone who they think they can do business
Speaker 2: with that that's what they wanted in Venezuela, right, Ran
Speaker 2: in Venezuela are different. They are both allied, but they're
Speaker 2: the very different countries. Yeah, but that's a real worry
Speaker 2: for people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's also like with Venezuela, it's completely
Speaker 3: different right now because with Venezuela, America had like a
Speaker 3: clear person as you said that, yeah, he or she
Speaker 3: is going to be the next leader or whatever, yeah, WROTEZ.
Speaker 3: But with it Ron it's not really clear yet. You know,
Speaker 3: the so called Prince Pahlavi, he is he is always
Speaker 3: on TV, always on on his social media saying that
Speaker 3: I'm gonna come back. I'm going to do this and that.
Speaker 3: But it's not really clear if USA and America have
Speaker 3: made a deal with him, because he doesn't really have
Speaker 3: that social base that he claims to have. And on
Speaker 3: the other side, there are the ethnic groups, especially Kurts,
Speaker 3: Balucci's and Aquasi Arabs. They're they're like better organized compared
Speaker 3: to other ethnic groups. And then today we just saw
Speaker 3: that Trump has made phone calls with the Kurdish leaders
Speaker 3: of these parties and the other parties in Iraqi curtism,
Speaker 3: this means something, and so yeah, it's it's not really
Speaker 3: clear that they're going to have a similar plan like
Speaker 3: Venezuela or they're gonna have something completely different for Iran.
Speaker 3: We're just waiting to see what's going to happen in
Speaker 3: the in the upcoming weeks, because it's just a few
Speaker 3: days that the war is going on. The entire region
Speaker 3: is in a shock. It's it's it's still not clear
Speaker 3: that how people are going to decide on their future
Speaker 3: now because the war is still going on and it's
Speaker 3: a very very high level. So of course it's it's
Speaker 3: also like even when I when I was talking to
Speaker 3: my family the other day, they were telling me, I
Speaker 3: mean most people in Kurdistan. I would say, majority of
Speaker 3: the people in in Kurdistan, they don't want monarchy back
Speaker 3: of course, they don't want another form of dictatorship. And
Speaker 3: they would say, yeah, we want anyone to be installed,
Speaker 3: but not this Sky, not not this Razapala. We don't
Speaker 3: want him. Anyone is better than him. So this is
Speaker 3: also something and I think probably if they want to
Speaker 3: install Raza Palavi, the ethnic groups will not accept it
Speaker 3: and there's going to be more resistance and therefore more wars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's take another break and we'll talk a little
Speaker 2: bit about that, maybe specifically the Curdis situation, as I
Speaker 2: know of interest in both of us.
Speaker 3: All right, we're back.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, you mentioned this piece, right, There was an article.
Speaker 2: It was a very poorly written article. I will say,
Speaker 2: for instance, it seemed to think that Talabani and Barzani
Speaker 2: were Iranian. But nonetheless the central thrust of it was
Speaker 2: correct that Trump has communicated with the KDP and the
Speaker 2: p UK. I understand this is like a lot of
Speaker 2: acronyms coming at people, and so maybe we can just say,
Speaker 2: like political parties in Iraqi, Kurdistan, Southern Kurdistan, but that
Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily tell us anything. I think it's very easy. Again,
Speaker 2: like there's this American media frame of analysis which sees
Speaker 2: groups in the Middle East as monolithic, right, the Kurds,
Speaker 2: as if they're like an entirely homogeneous entity with one
Speaker 2: political interest, which is not the case. But like, for
Speaker 2: America to fully remove this regime and Israel, it needs
Speaker 2: either a partner force or to be willing to commit
Speaker 2: thousands of its own soldiers to fight and know that
Speaker 2: hundreds of them will die, right, like like they'd in
Speaker 2: a ruck, I guess, like knowing what we know and
Speaker 2: knowing that there are these groups, right, and maybe it
Speaker 2: would be good to give people a primer on the
Speaker 2: Eastern Kurdistan resistance groups and the alliance that they've recently formed,
Speaker 2: Like where are they standing right now? And know they
Speaker 2: released a statement yesterday, but can you explain that to
Speaker 2: a little bit to people.
Speaker 3: There are several parties across Eastern Kurdistan or as they say,
Speaker 3: Irenian Kurdistan, and of course they were very diverse and
Speaker 3: each of them have a different ideology. That's that's very normal. Yes,
Speaker 3: what happened in the past few months was that it's
Speaker 3: also a very great development for our people at least
Speaker 3: because they have been also calling for a form of
Speaker 3: cooperation between these parties, and they finally announced that. Of course,
Speaker 3: two parties like the Komala and another branch, they did
Speaker 3: not join it because they had some disagreements, but that
Speaker 3: is also normal. So the thing is that these parties
Speaker 3: would definitely work together if the things are going to
Speaker 3: escalate more. For example, if I want to say about
Speaker 3: a week ago, the Riza Palavi, he published a statement
Speaker 3: and he threatened Kurdish people that if they think about
Speaker 3: autonomy or I don't know, thinking about taking quote unquote
Speaker 3: parts of Iran's oil, We're going to use the army
Speaker 3: against them in the future. It's incredible that the first
Speaker 3: Kurdish official who answered to that statement was Abdullah Mortardi
Speaker 3: from the Komala, who was not a part of the coalition.
Speaker 3: So that means that even though they have disagreements, but
Speaker 3: they are still trying to work together and help each other.
Speaker 3: I have talked to some people in the Kourtish parties.
Speaker 3: They are fully prepared for anything that could happen in
Speaker 3: the upcoming weeks or days or even months. I don't know.
Speaker 3: They're fully prepared, And what I know is that they
Speaker 3: are telling me that they are prepared that the Israeli
Speaker 3: army and also the American army would bomb or destroy
Speaker 3: the military bases on the border and also the checkpoints
Speaker 3: so that it would be easier for them to enter.
Speaker 3: And probably if it's going to be bigger than that,
Speaker 3: then maybe they could take over the controls of the cities.
Speaker 3: And what's really interesting is that they yesterday, these five
Speaker 3: parties the coalition, published a statement and there were several points,
Speaker 3: but one of the points was that was really interesting
Speaker 3: for me was that they were calling on people to
Speaker 3: not damage any public buildings like banks, goals, I don't know, offices,
Speaker 3: and that means that probably there is a movement that
Speaker 3: they want to come back and take over all these
Speaker 3: buildings and try to control the cities better. So this
Speaker 3: is also something and there is a lot of discussion
Speaker 3: on social media and people are all saying that, yeah,
Speaker 3: we are ready that if something happens, we will go in.
Speaker 3: And I think right now the situation is really complicated
Speaker 3: and like we don't know how people can actually enter yet.
Speaker 3: And you said that, yeah, if there is going to
Speaker 3: be a force that's ready, to sacrifice thousands of its members.
Speaker 3: I think there are the Kurts are ready to fight.
Speaker 3: They have been ready to fight for forever, for decades. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so this is also like something that the Courtish people
Speaker 3: already know that if we want to get rid of
Speaker 3: this regime, we have to sacrifice more. For me, it's
Speaker 3: very painful to say this, but I think our people
Speaker 3: have to sacrifice a little bit more more than that.
Speaker 3: They have been sacrificing for over one hundred fifty years,
Speaker 3: and I think maybe they have to sacrifice more. But
Speaker 3: one point here is that when I see what's happening,
Speaker 3: when I see that what is being said, that Trump
Speaker 3: is talking to the Kurdish parties, to the Kurdish organizations
Speaker 3: about the situation, one thing that I think about is
Speaker 3: that given the history of at least fifteen sixteen years
Speaker 3: of cooperation between America and the Kurds in Rajava, in
Speaker 3: in Syria and the fight against ISIS, which was which
Speaker 3: was a great opportunity for Kurdish people, but at the end,
Speaker 3: Trump just let Kurts down and didn't really support them
Speaker 3: against Turkey, against all these Jadist groups that are supporting Seria.
Speaker 3: So the question is that what if we fight against
Speaker 3: this regime, we we destroy the regime. I mean, it's
Speaker 3: not just us. I have to mention that the other
Speaker 3: ethnic groups are also ready. But what if all these
Speaker 3: ethnic groups fight this regime, they destroy this regime. And
Speaker 3: what if Trump just brings someone really bad and someone
Speaker 3: really useless, like Rizopaalavi or other Iranian figures that of
Speaker 3: course are not after Kurdish people's interests. What if somebody
Speaker 3: likes that comes in power and then the same situation
Speaker 3: goes on, and then we have to fight that system
Speaker 3: over and over again. So this is also something that
Speaker 3: I that I also think about it, but we still
Speaker 3: don't know what will happen is America's exact plan. It
Speaker 3: could be something like Iraqi Curtisan, which could benefit the
Speaker 3: ethnic groups a lot. Of course, there's still gonna be
Speaker 3: civil war, probably there's gonna be instability, but at least
Speaker 3: the ethnic groups might be able to self determine, you know,
Speaker 3: like might might be able to control their areas and
Speaker 3: get rid of that Iranian control to some extent, maybe
Speaker 3: not fully, but that is also something that could be possible.
Speaker 3: And of course there's going to be killing, there's going
Speaker 3: to be a lot of civilians killed, and we know
Speaker 3: that already during all these bombings, many civilians are killed.
Speaker 3: We don't know how many exactly because there is no
Speaker 3: internet connection to make sure about the numbers or to
Speaker 3: investigate that. But of course all these Iranian government buildings
Speaker 3: are RGC bases, intelligence offices or facilities that are all
Speaker 3: located in civilian areas in the cities, in the city
Speaker 3: centers all over Iran and also Kurtistan. So there's always
Speaker 3: going to be some civilians who are living, were walking
Speaker 3: around there and they get killed. So this is also
Speaker 3: something that's that's really painful. But I think our people
Speaker 3: really had have had enough and they were ready for this,
Speaker 3: and they were they knew that this is this was
Speaker 3: this was going to happen, and yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's uh, it's such a difficult thing because
Speaker 2: like it's what four or five weeks ago that we
Speaker 2: saw the STG and groups affiliatory and Transitional government and
Speaker 2: groups affiliated with it like live streaming them killing and
Speaker 2: mutilating the remains of captured Kurdish men and women in
Speaker 2: their resort right like a place where maybe it wasn't
Speaker 2: a desire to liberate Kurdish people that took the SDF there.
Speaker 2: It was the battle against Isis and and this idea
Speaker 2: of brotherhood of people's right that they would liberate the
Speaker 2: Arab people who lived there. Obviously that has resulted in
Speaker 2: these horrible things that we've seen over the last month.
Speaker 2: And then the thought of like, oh, well, you just
Speaker 2: sent ten thousand more of your children to die so
Speaker 2: you can liberate people in Tehran and then we'll leave
Speaker 2: you again. I was just thinking about like a four
Speaker 2: years ago, I was in the Solomonia and I went
Speaker 2: to the museum. You know that they have the Red
Speaker 2: Security Building and they have like a very good history
Speaker 2: of the Amphile, the genocide against the Kurdish people committed
Speaker 2: by the Bathist state, and then they have the nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety one uprising, and then they have a lot of
Speaker 2: commemoration of the battle against the Islamic State. And like,
Speaker 2: for my entire life, like the Americans have been leaving
Speaker 2: Kurdish people to die and then urging them to rise
Speaker 2: up again. And it's just it's an incredible like revolutionary
Speaker 2: capacity and capacity for sacrifice. But it's also just very
Speaker 2: sad that Americans constantly expect Kurdish people to continue to
Speaker 2: sacrifice and then never fill up their end of the bargain.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's unfortunately true. And yeah, this has been
Speaker 3: evident in the past few years as well, like in
Speaker 3: in Syria when when when America gave the green light
Speaker 3: to Turkey to invade Rajava, and also recently that how
Speaker 3: they just abandoned Kurts. Of course they are still saying, no,
Speaker 3: we didn't abandon curse, but but but they did, and
Speaker 3: we basically lost almost everything that we had gained in
Speaker 3: in Rajava. And there is also like a threat against
Speaker 3: the Iraqi Curtism region right now from Turkey and also
Speaker 3: from Iraq, and it's it's just the bitter truth that, yeah,
Speaker 3: apparently Curts are not considered as a long term partner
Speaker 3: for the us R and also the other Western countries.
Speaker 3: But like all these horrible things that are that have
Speaker 3: been happening to our people in the past one hundred years,
Speaker 3: I mean, a part of it is of course the
Speaker 3: result of the Western countries and colonization from the European
Speaker 3: countries Great Britain, Russia and also America. But at the
Speaker 3: same time, it's it's it's really important to not forget
Speaker 3: that the majority of this tragedy that our people are
Speaker 3: are living in is also caused by by by Turks,
Speaker 3: Arabs and Persians. And by that I just don't mean
Speaker 3: the state. I also mean the whole structure in the
Speaker 3: Middle East that has been prosecuting the Kurts. It's it's
Speaker 3: been centuries that are our people are trapped between these powers,
Speaker 3: the Turks, Prisions and Arabs that are also fighting each other.
Speaker 3: But then they bring all of their wars inside or homeland,
Speaker 3: and then our people get killed and displaced and face
Speaker 3: all the tragedies. So yeah, this is also our situation
Speaker 3: right now, and I don't know if it's going to
Speaker 3: be changed to a better situation because it's just so
Speaker 3: unclear that how the superpowers, how the major powers, the
Speaker 3: original powers are are planning for these things, and how
Speaker 3: their interests actually matter. Like we talked about, if America,
Speaker 3: if Turkey or NATO and other Arab countries were not
Speaker 3: backing the new Syrian government, I would call it Syrian
Speaker 3: Arab government because that's how they identify themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's still the Syrian Arab Republic even a year
Speaker 2: and a bit later.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if it was only British forces and the new government.
Speaker 3: Trust me, they would not be able to enter all
Speaker 3: the territories controlled by SDF because STF is way more
Speaker 3: advanced and more powerful than them, like military wise. But
Speaker 3: STF was left alone, and there was so much pressure
Speaker 3: on STF from all the Arab countries, Turkey and also
Speaker 3: Western countries and America. So this this whole thing, like,
Speaker 3: maybe this is a little bit unrealistic, but a lot
Speaker 3: of people ask me that what's going to be next.
Speaker 3: I think the next is going to be what America
Speaker 3: and Europe want. Like I'm sure that they don't care
Speaker 3: about what the people in Kurdistan or the people in
Speaker 3: Iran want. They just want to do whatever they want,
Speaker 3: whatever that benefits them. And of course the neighboring countries
Speaker 3: will also follow, from the Arab countries and definitely Turkey,
Speaker 3: they will follow the plan that benefits them. So the
Speaker 3: people are trapped between these decisions. If the Iranian structure
Speaker 3: also remains, probably they would also change course and then
Speaker 3: cooperate with the with America or Israel or NATO or
Speaker 3: Arab countries only to remain in power and maintain their interests.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really difficult time if people are looking
Speaker 2: to stay informed on this right. Coverage in the US
Speaker 2: has been poor in the English language. Where would you
Speaker 2: suggest what people follow your work and where would you
Speaker 2: suggest people people look to stay informed of what's happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I personally don't post a lot. I'm just trying
Speaker 3: to gather information and like be updated and then share
Speaker 3: it with other media that are asking me about and
Speaker 3: other journalists. But there are several pages that I can suggest.
Speaker 3: One of them is definitely our organization hang Out and
Speaker 3: our Organization for Human Rights. I would also suggest to
Speaker 3: follow news channels like Rudolph, which they have been working
Speaker 3: really good on this war. It's a Kurdish TV channel
Speaker 3: based in Iraqi, Curtistan. I would also suggest to follow
Speaker 3: the social media pages belonging to the Kurdish parties like
Speaker 3: KDPI or Comala, just like their official pages on Twitter
Speaker 3: or It's for example, they post a lot of really
Speaker 3: good information. I would also suggest, I think I also
Speaker 3: suggested in our last talk, there is this person and
Speaker 3: called Vahit online. He is an independent journalist and he
Speaker 3: has like some really big platforms and he posts a
Speaker 3: lot of reliable information and videos about the locations and
Speaker 3: the things that are happening. And I would also suggest
Speaker 3: to follow some other journalists like Ali Jawan Mahrdi. He
Speaker 3: is the manager and supervisor of the Voice of America.
Speaker 3: He also like he has several platforms and they post.
Speaker 3: He posts a lot of updated information about what's happening.
Speaker 3: But here's also something that I want to warn about.
Speaker 3: I would suggest people to not really believe in what
Speaker 3: they see on TV channels or media like Iran International, MANOTO, TV, BBC,
Speaker 3: Persian because all these media have turned into a platform
Speaker 3: to do the propaganda for the monarchists, and they have
Speaker 3: been posting a lot of fake news, a lot of
Speaker 3: AI generated content, and it's been really damaging the whole
Speaker 3: course of the if I want to call it the
Speaker 3: revolution or the war or whatever like that's happening inside
Speaker 3: Iron and Curtiston. So yeah, these are the things that
Speaker 3: I can suggest so far.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great suggestion. Thank you well, thank you
Speaker 2: very much for joining us today. We'll get this out
Speaker 2: as soon as possible because I know people are very
Speaker 2: interested to know more about it.
Speaker 3: Thanks Cody, thanks for inviting me. The next time.
Speaker 1: It could happen here is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media. Visit our website
Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1: You can now find sources for It could happen here
Speaker 1: listened directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.