WEBVTT - Bonnie and Clyde 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:11.280 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:14.000 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:18.040 and Jerry's here too, machine Gun Jerry Rowland and this 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:22.279 is Stuff you Should Know about Bonnie and Clyde. A 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:24.959 true crime edition but also a folk hero edition. 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.600 That's right, and it's given me an opportunity to get 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:31.120 that Bonnie and Clyde song stuck in my head all day, 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:35.040 which is great because I've never heard that song, Bonnie 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:40.960 and Clyde. Bonnie and Clyde, I think you're just making 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.159 that up now, it's for real. I think it was 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.680 Serge Gainsbourg, but I know the Luna version. 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.400 I came across that mention of that, so yeah, it 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.040 was Serge Gainsburg and Brigie Bardot. 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:58.600 Yeah, but Luna covered it. And speaking of Luna leader, 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:02.000 Dean Wareham's brother Anthony as a listener, So hello Anthony. 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:04.520 Wow, we finally got to Anthony. 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:08.800 I tried to buy Dean's guitar off of Instagram a 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.520 few weeks ago. How did he go, Well, he put 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:13.920 his guitar up and it's the one that's on the 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:17.200 cover of his book Black Postcards. And he's used in 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:19.000 the studio and on tour. And I was like, huh, 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.480 let me just see how much he wants and he said, 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.600 I missed it by a day, so it stinks. 0:01:25.640 --> 0:01:27.760 Well, maybe Anthony can pull some strings for you. 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.039 Yeah, like steal a guitar from Dean and just send 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:30.480 it my way. 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.720 Yeah. And if Anthony did that, he'd be a lot 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:35.600 like Clyde Barrow or Bonnie Parker. 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.160 Yeah. Man, these guys like to steal stuff. 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.640 So yeah, I did you see the PBS documentary, the 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:47.000 American Experience documentary on him. No, just it, it's worth watching. 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:48.680 I haven't seen the movie. So you put the two 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:51.120 of us together, we have a full comprehension, right. 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:51.640 That's how it works. 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:57.840 But they kind of they basically got across that they stole, 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:01.040 or Clyde stole just literally a way of life, like 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:04.480 he stole cars to get around, he stole money to 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:08.000 buy food with, like he that's just how he lived. 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:11.040 And they make the point. And I think Lvia Olivia 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:12.760 helped us with this. I she kind of makes the 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.640 point too, like these were the options that were open 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:20.000 to them, especially Clyde because he was raised dirt poor 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:23.680 during the depression, and like a lot of people were 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:25.960 poor during the depression. So if you were dirt poor 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.280 during the Depression, you were really really poor. And that's 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:31.640 the life that that Clyde Barrow was born into. 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:35.320 Yeah for sure, and you know, not to excuse crime, 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:38.320 but that was just his background and not to you know, 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.480 they've been glorified over the years, but kind of reading 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:44.120 through this, it was like, oh, man, they like just 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:48.079 would murder people at will, again usually to get out 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:51.800 of a scrape, but still just like killing people left 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:53.760 and right, just you know, to not get caught. 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.480 Yeah, particularly cops. And there's some disputes over there's a 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:02.280 pair of patrol men that were killed, and it's disputed 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:06.040 whether Bonnie was one of the gunmen or not. There's 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.799 some other crimes that they have had attributed to them 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.720 that may or may not have been there doing, but 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:18.800 there are definitely there's a the path behind them was 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:23.600 littered with dead cops that they definitely murdered. They were 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.320 known to like if a cop came up to him, 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:27.160 even if they had no idea who they were and 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:29.800 were trying to help, they just opened fire and killed 0:03:29.840 --> 0:03:33.240 the guy. Like that was definitely their mo typically with 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:36.880 cops though, and this isn't like justify it, but this 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.960 was also the era where the cops would just open 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.320 fire on you too. There wasn't like I put your 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.880 hands up kind of stuff. It was like, you're an outlaw. 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.600 I'm going to start shooting at you first, ask questions later. 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:50.480 Yeah, not like these days where cops and ice never 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:57.760 just kill people, right, bad joke? Yeah, all right, well, 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:00.839 and you know it. And maybe I'll make this point 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.720 later too. But and again it doesn't justify it. But 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:10.480 after Clyde's prison stent early on, like he was to 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.640 me like clearly killing people, so he would never ever 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:16.120 have to go back to prison, right you know. 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.440 Yeah, and you can kind of get that after you 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:20.680 hear about his time in prison and how much he 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:21.200 hated it. 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:25.159 Yeah, so let's get going and talk about Clyde first. 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.360 I know it's Bonnie and Clyde, but we're going Clyde 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:28.240 and Bonnie initially. 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:29.000 Ooh. 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:32.039 He was born in Texas in nineteen oh nine, in 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.279 Teleco And you know, when he was a kid, he 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:37.760 I don't think this necessarily means he was set for 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:39.600 a life of crime. So a lot of kids played 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:42.280 gangster play outlaw and that's but that's what he did. 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.200 And in the twenties they moved to a very very 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:49.880 very poor neighborhood in West Dallas and we're homeless as 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:53.679 a family for a while. And his brother Buck Barrow 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.680 and Clyde started you know, early on, like stealing food, 0:04:57.760 --> 0:05:00.640 like you mentioned, stealing turkeys, and then that graduated to 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:03.680 robbery and car theft and stuff like that, to the 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.600 point where he was eventually arrested for the first time 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:08.719 when he was seventeen for car theft. 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.760 Yeah. This was not him boosting a car, which was 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:15.320 basically how he got every other car. He actually went 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:18.880 and rented a car and then a girlfriend and then 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:20.279 didn't take it back. 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.320 Yeah, that's stealing, though, you know, no, it definitely ok. 0:05:23.480 --> 0:05:26.320 Death by taking I think, But I think also you 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.640 can implicate the car rental place for renting a car 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:29.840 to a seventeen year old. 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:33.200 Yeah. I was also quite frankly surprised to learn that 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:35.360 they had car rental services in nineteen twenty six. 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.680 Yeah, although it was probably just some dude in town 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:40.640 who'd let you take his car for ten. 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.800 Bucks or something, but you got to be thirteen. 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:47.160 Right, So yeah, that was his first brush with the law, 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.920 and that was certainly far from his last. And that's Clyde. 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.160 His middle name was Chestnut, by the way, which I 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:57.279 thought was pretty cool, very cute. Bonnie's middle name was Elizabeth. 0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:01.240 Her name was Bonnie Elizabeth Parker. She was born into 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.599 different circumstances than Clyde. Her mom was a seamstress, her 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:09.960 dad was a bricklayer, but she was born in Rowena, Texas, 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.000 and after her father died, the family had very little 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:18.280 means of supporting themselves, and her mom was I think 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:21.359 her mom's name was Emma. She was basically left to 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.920 raise three very little kids on her own. So they 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:28.040 ended up in the same area roughly where Clyde and 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:31.480 his family were. Basically, I saw it put that they 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.320 were both from the same side of the tracks, despite 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:39.920 Bonnie's mom raising her and her siblings to be respectable 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:43.400 and up to feel that they were above their circumstances 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:47.000 rather than you know, part of their circumstances for sure. 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.800 So you know, this was the early nineteen hundred, so 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:53.960 a lot of times you would find kids dropping out 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:55.960 of school or getting married at very young ages, and 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.680 that's what happened with Bonnie. At fifteen, she married a 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:02.320 guy named Roy Thornton who was a criminal, so that 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.680 kind of gave her a taste of that lifestyle. They 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.599 weren't together too long, I think about four years, even 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:13.720 though they never officially legally got divorced, and finally hooked 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:16.760 up with Clyde in nineteen thirty when he was twenty 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.360 and she was nineteen. And it wasn't long after they 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:24.880 got together that Clyde went to prison for car theft 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:29.200 and burglary again just sort of doing the same fairly 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:34.080 low stakes crimes at the time, and she got him 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.960 out of jail. She smuggled in a gun and helped 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.480 him escape basically with two other inmates. They were all 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:44.120 three recaptured though, and that's when he got his kind 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:45.800 of really tough stint in prison. 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.600 Yeah, they send him to fourteen years hard labor on 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:52.160 the East of Prison farm, which was a notorious farm 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:55.400 in the Texas pedals system where you would just get 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:58.240 beaten for no reason by the guards who were just 0:07:58.280 --> 0:08:02.840 completely beyond the law. And he was also he had 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.640 been taken remember he's still pretty young at this time. 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.960 He was basically claimed by another inmate who raped him 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:14.480 repeatedly and beat him repeatedly, and he essentially was like, 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.680 this is my life now for at least the next 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:22.080 fourteen years. And there he finally was tired enough of 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:26.400 it that he smuggled a galvanized pipe into the cells 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:28.760 with him and he walked to the showers, knowing that 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:31.080 this guy was going to follow him, and the guy did, 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.760 and Clyde suddenly turns on him and beat him over 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:36.480 the head until he was dead with the lead pipe. 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:40.240 And I think one thing that really kind of gets across, 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.000 like how Clyde was. He was kind of a likable 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:47.760 person throughout his life, but especially at this time. Another 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:49.960 inmate who already had a life sentence he was never 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.040 getting out, he took the blame so that Clyde wouldn't 0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:57.280 basically ruin his future for killing the man who'd been 0:08:57.360 --> 0:08:57.960 raping him. 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:02.640 Yeah. I mean, hey, it's a pretty stand up thing 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:04.480 to do for that guy in prison. 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:07.400 It totally is. It's like I donated a kid need 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:09.840 to a stranger. Oh yeah, well I took a murder 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.760 rap so a kid wouldn't who was doling out his 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:14.400 own justice wouldn't ruin his life. 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:16.720 Yeah, So you know that's what I was referencing when 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:19.440 it You know, it seems that Clyde did everything, including 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.040 killing cops, that he could to stay out of jail. 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:26.360 Again again, not excusing to killing a police, just kind 0:09:26.400 --> 0:09:29.439 of kind of lay down the reality of being assaulted 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:30.240 in prison like that. 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.640 I think you're explaining his mindset. That's legitimate. 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.360 Yeah, okay, So one of the other things. I don't 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:39.400 think Clyde was ever accused of being like the smartest 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:43.400 guy in the world, because at one point he cut 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.559 off two of his toes to avoid the hard labor 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:50.319 part of the hard labor prison, and less than a 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.000 week later he was freed when in his mother petitioned 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.959 for parole. So I didn't time that one out quite right. 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:00.520 No, he was also, I guess, not known as the 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.120 luckiest guy around too. Yeah, he spent so he spent 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:06.800 less than two years in prison. But in that time 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:13.040 he changed like fundamentally before, like you said, fairly light stuff, 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.960 boosting cars, stealing truckloads of turkeys, that kind of stuff. 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:20.520 But there was another guy that he was in the 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:23.000 prison with who said that before his very eyes he 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:27.280 saw Clyde change from a schoolboy to a Rattlesnake, and 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.160 even Bonnie. Later on, in a poem that she wrote 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:34.320 she used to write poetry, she mentioned that that Clyde 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:41.920 was basically a victim of unfair institutionalization. Basically that that's 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.240 what that's why he was the way he was. 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:46.839 I gotta say, every time you say boosted a car, 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:48.720 it makes you sound super street. 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:53.400 It sound like a fifties greaser in the seventies. 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:55.600 Yeah, instead of stealing a car, Like I'm not cool, 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:56.760 I don't say boosting a car. 0:10:57.120 --> 0:10:59.240 I guess you could say stealing. Yeah, I was gonna say, 0:10:59.280 --> 0:11:00.720 I don't know any other way to put it. But 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.520 I mean, I guess it's just because I'm from the streets. 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:03.800 You know. 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.160 It's about to say, you're like, oh wait, there's a 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:11.640 word for boosting a car, stealing steel. Yeah, they don't 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:13.320 teach that on the street. So I don't blame you. 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:17.120 So Clyde was released, like we said, when his mother 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.200 petitioned for that release, and he went right back to robbing, 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.480 you know, gas stations, convenience store stuff like that. He 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.600 had his first sort of partner in crime. His name 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:33.200 was Ralph Foltz, and Bonnie was kind of joined up 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.800 with them as the first version of the Barrow Gang, 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:38.840 just the three of them, even though like you know, 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.360 parents on both sides were like, Bonnie, you can't join 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:44.400 up with this criminal gang, Like please, don't do it, 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:46.280 and she's like, I love my man. 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.080 Yeah, she said, I like the bad boys for sure. 0:11:49.240 --> 0:11:49.720 Yeah. 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.360 But you know, one of the reasons why we still 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.720 know about Bonnie and Clyde not just because they became celebrities, 0:11:55.720 --> 0:12:00.880 but also because they were just totally in love with 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:01.480 one another. 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:01.840 Yeah. 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:06.040 Like basically every single outlaw romance or love story that 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:10.240 you've ever seen, and the movies are on TV, is 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:14.320 in one way or another based on Bonnie and Clyde. 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:18.480 Oh yeah, that's my theory. Yeah. I should probably say 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.880 this is not you know, something from an academic journal 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:22.480 I read, but. 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:24.599 A white paper, as Emily would say. 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.719 Yeah, exactly right, it's it's something I'm working on. 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:28.520 Emily. 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:30.760 Emily's got one for everything, doesn't she. 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.000 Oh yeah, when I like, you know, when she'll just 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.199 sort of make a claim or something else and not 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.440 to its challenger, I'll just be like, are you sure 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:38.760 about that or something, and She'll be like, well, I 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.960 don't have a white paper. On it all right, I 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:42.760 know that's the time. 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:44.240 To back off, Thank you, Emily. 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.560 So in April of thirty two, and you know, we 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:50.320 should point out this is over just a couple of 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.480 years that all of derrib shenanigans took place. Yeah, so 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.080 we're gonna be spitting out dates kind of Fast and Furious. 0:12:56.080 --> 0:13:00.800 But in April of speaking of boosting cars of thirty two, 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:01.719 did you get that one? 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:03.400 Hm? 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.080 Hmmm, Fast and Furious? 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:07.959 Oh oh, did they boost cars? I thought they There 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:12.720 were extensive, lengthy scenes of them negotiating at car dealerships. 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:14.440 Actually they're purchasing. 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:18.559 I think saw you got to sell me this car? 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:22.439 It's about family. I only know that line about family 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:24.720 as a reference because I've only seen one of that. 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.120 I think I saw that very first movie, did you. 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.960 I'm not familiar with the Fast and the Furious verse, 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.600 But were they even Carthy's I think they were right. 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.400 I probably, I mean they were definitely. I get the 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:38.520 impression that they were on the wrong side of the law, 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:39.719 the right side. 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.640 Of Justice's man, that's the log line. Did you you 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.959 didn't see any of those? No, not even the first one. No, 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:48.960 you say that like you have that I know I'm 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:50.240 starvage movies before. 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:54.680 Sorry, but it's also the highest grossing movie franchise in 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:55.560 the world ever. 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:57.720 Well it's because there's thirty seven of them. 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.000 I mean, that's definitely part of it. But also people 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.079 prettily like car movies. 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.760 They do, they're supposed to be good, all right. So 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.880 back to after pointing out my dumb pun. April of 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.600 thirty two, Bonnie and Ralph Fultz, who was the guy 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:13.959 who he initially hooked up with and then gang they 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:18.000 were arrested trying to rob a hardware store and she 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.320 got out, was never indicted at least, and Ralph was convicted, 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.000 and while she was sort of being investigated for indictment, 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:28.640 Clyde and his other boys are still out there again. 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:33.360 Robin banks, Robin stores, gas stations, all pretty And this 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.040 is one reason they got away with it for so 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.120 long is they never did like these huge things. They 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:40.440 were kind of in small towns Robin, you know, kind 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.120 of backwater grocery stores and stuff. 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:42.640 It's key. 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:47.560 But it was at one of these robberies where the 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.480 first murder happens when a store owner and one of 0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.400 the only non cops, a guy named John Butcher, was killed. 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:56.880 Yeah, and it's also not clear whether it was Clyde 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.040 that did it. Yeah, I don't think anyone thinks it 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.360 was Bonnie. I'm yeah, she was in jail, I think, 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:03.840 like you said at the time, Yeah, definitely wasn't her. 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:07.880 There was. He was with an associate named Raymond Hamilton, 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.400 and Raymond Hamilton and Floyd Hamilton would kind of come 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.360 in and out of the Barrow gang, and I got 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:16.440 the impression that, like Clyde was definitely one of the 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.560 more stand up gangsters, of the people in his gang, 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:25.040 that he ran with some shady, shady dudes that were 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:29.000 way more murderous than him, and that it was just 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:33.120 basically him being pragmatic, like he just had a small 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.440 pool of people who he knew could help him rob 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.080 a store at any given time, so he had to 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.680 kind of hang out with these shady people. I get 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.080 the impression the otherwise wouldn't have necessarily. 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.640 Yeah, I sort of do too. Yeah. So that was 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.040 in April of the first murder. The second murder was 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.600 in August of that year when Clyde and Raymond and 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:57.040 another you know guy that they was sort of in 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.920 and out of the gang killed an undershare if I guess, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:02.240 which is sort of like a deputy named Eugene Moore 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:07.960 in Stringtown, Oklahoma, and then went back to Dallas around 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:13.320 Christmas and Clyde talked to a kid, basically a sixteen 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.400 year old named w D. Jones into joining up with 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:19.440 the gang. And on Christmas Day, which was the next day, 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.560 they killed another guy named Doyle Johnson while stealing his car, 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.600 and Clyde was like, all right, kid, like, you got 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.040 to stay with us now otherwise like they're going to 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:30.000 get you for this murder. 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:34.760 Yeah, and w D being sixteen at the time, was like, 0:16:34.840 --> 0:16:37.200 oh God, I have no choice. I have to turn 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:39.320 to a life of crime now. I'm in too deep. 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:44.360 As Phil Collins would later saye so he did. He 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:49.680 stuck around and he and Bonnie and Clyde were essentially 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:53.520 the first cohesive Bonnie and Clyde gang, Yeah, because they 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:55.160 stuck together for quite a while. 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:55.960 A member. 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.880 She did a lot of stuff. Everything we're talking about here, 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.600 every signify thing, which is usually the murder of a cop. 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:08.320 They're in between those, there's handfuls and handfuls of robberies 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:10.720 and you know, shootouts and stuff like that that they 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:14.040 engaged and they were on the run and on the 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.600 move and under the gun. Yeah, every moment from the 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:20.399 start to their death. Over the course of this two 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:24.400 something years, they were just constantly in action. Even when 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:28.080 they took a vacation, as we'll see in Joplin, Missouri, 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:29.679 they ended up in a shootout. 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.960 Yeah, there was a lot of gunplay. I mean that 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:38.280 was at Christmas when the second murder happened. In January, 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.240 there was another murder and this was just a sort 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.960 of an unlucky circumstance when they walked into an ambush, 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:47.879 but it wasn't for them, it was for a different target, 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:51.639 but it was an ambush nonetheless. So they killed the 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.720 deputy sheriff named Malcolm Davis. And for the next couple 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:59.200 of months, basically early thirty three through the spring, it 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:07.480 was Zora, Arkansas, Oklahoma, stealing boosting cars how to say it, right, Yeah, 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:12.080 boosting cars. And you know, if you've ever seen the 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:16.240 very famous photos that looks like, hey, this looks sort 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.400 of like a photo shoot of these criminals, that's kind 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:21.160 of exactly what it was. It was during this time 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.200 that w D took these photos of them, these very 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.520 famous photos. One of which I'm sure you saw this 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:31.399 one online. Somebody did a really good job colorizing the 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:35.639 one where he's kind of lifted Bonnie up and like 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:38.960 colorized and retouched to where it looks like a modern photo. 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.680 There's like a lot of clarity because otherwise they're sort 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:45.080 of grainy black and white. But yeah, you get your 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:47.280 with this color photo. You get a really good look 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:50.520 at like who they were, and they they you know, 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:52.919 Fade Dunaway and Warren Batty played them for a reason, 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:55.679 like they were both like pretty attractive people. 0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:01.359 Yeah, and I didn't know this, but Bonnie was really Dnkham's. 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.600 Like she was under what is that she was under 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:06.640 five feet tall and weighed eighty five pounds. 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:07.480 That's a Dnkham's. 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.680 Yeah, that's a dnkham Never heard of that. I guess 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:16.200 it's it's mine. Oh okay, like being white papered. It's 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:17.840 on archive right now. 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:19.840 Well you means it to a small person, do you say, 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:21.520 come here, little Dinkams? Is that where it comes from? 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:26.040 Yeah? Drives her crazy, She's like, put me down, all right? 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:27.840 Yeah, she was a Dnkhams. That's why he was just 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:29.120 sort of holding her up with one arm. 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:32.240 I guess yeah. And also it would come in handy 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.199 later when she injures her leg, right, because she had 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.359 to be carried quite a bit. But so around this 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.720 time those photos, like you said, they'll they'll come back 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:46.439 in again. But around this time, I guess in March. 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:50.280 This is January when they started shooting at the cops again. 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.400 December and January art shooting at the cops again, right, 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:57.480 so this is this is March. And when Clyde's brother 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.879 Buck shows up, and Buck had been in pre remember 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.480 he basically taught his little brother Clyde how to be 0:20:03.520 --> 0:20:07.159 a criminal, but not a murderous criminal. Clyde learned that 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:10.720 on his own, remember, Yeah. And Buck's wife Blanche came along. 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.359 So now they had a two couple gang with a 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:17.800 fifth wheel in WD Blanche and Buck and Bonnie and 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:21.000 Clyde in poor little w D, who again is like sixteen, 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:25.760 maybe seventeen by now, and after like this at least 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:30.120 a year of just constant crime, they're like, let's take 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:35.320 a vacation in Joplin, Missouri, Missouri, right, that's how they 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:40.040 say it. Yeah, And they were there for thirteen days 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:42.720 before the cops got called on them because they were 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:47.880 basically being noisy drunks in a neighborhood, and the neighbors 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:52.199 were like, these are probably bootleggers because this is you know, 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:57.240 I guess it's after prohibition, shortly after prohibition, but still, 0:20:57.680 --> 0:21:00.399 these bootleg operations were so successful. I'm sure they just 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:01.840 didn't go away immediately. 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:06.200 Yeah, they're like, whoever's at this airbnb is really dragging 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:07.080 the neighborhood down. 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:09.359