Speaker 1: This is the me Eater Podcast, coming at you shirtless, severely,
Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening I'm Eating podcast,
Speaker 1: you can't predict anything. You guys really made me feel good.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, thanks for coming out everyone. Yeah. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna start out with a couple of introductions and then
Speaker 1: we'll dig into some deeper stuff down. Then we have
Speaker 1: our our produce, Sir Janice, who tell us we'll have
Speaker 1: an eagle and uh. Also joining us is outdoor Calumnists
Speaker 1: in general, outdoor writer Pat Durkin. You can't you can't
Speaker 1: see it. You can't see it, but Pat. Uh But
Speaker 1: but Pat Durkin has new tattoos. And I was asking him,
Speaker 1: like why now, and he said that he's old enough
Speaker 1: now where he doesn't have time to come to regret him. Also,
Speaker 1: today we're looking. We're behind Pat's car and Pat has
Speaker 1: what we thought was a vanity plate because his license
Speaker 1: plate is to seventy deer. But he said it just
Speaker 1: happened to happen that way. It's like a modesty plate.
Speaker 1: It's not a vanity plate. It's like, you know you're
Speaker 1: a true hunter when they send you a two seventy
Speaker 1: deer license plate, it's my wife's car. And uh we
Speaker 1: have Mark Ordman from Vortex Optics. And I don't know
Speaker 1: about you, but I, uh, you know, I've worked with
Speaker 1: and been friends with the guys a Vortex for forever.
Speaker 1: And when you have a problem you call up. It
Speaker 1: won't be you, but like genuine people answer the phone
Speaker 1: and you can call and ask for Mark. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: when you have an optics question, call this guy out
Speaker 1: and talk to him. And then we have a frequent
Speaker 1: podcast guests. Probably the most frequent podcast guest is Old
Speaker 1: cal forty six or Ryan Callahan at be six four
Speaker 1: oh six, Okal four oh six, o Califour O six. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I come like I come through here quite
Speaker 1: a bit because you guys are such a you know,
Speaker 1: like Minneapolis is such a hub and the thing I
Speaker 1: think about often, like when even when I knew we
Speaker 1: were gonna come here, because I think about this thing
Speaker 1: that happened to me years ago where I was flying
Speaker 1: into Minneapolis to go to a weird sound. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: I thought I was like, this is the end. Man.
Speaker 1: I was flying in Minneapolis to go to this this
Speaker 1: white buffalo's birthday party which was west here out in
Speaker 1: the Dakotas. But I mean me and my wife flew
Speaker 1: in we already married yet, and we flew into the
Speaker 1: airport and rented a car, started driving down the road
Speaker 1: and got on ninety four, and I saw like what
Speaker 1: I believed to be to this day. It was still
Speaker 1: velveted out, but what I still believed to be. I
Speaker 1: saw what I at the time believe to be the
Speaker 1: like still the biggest white tailed buck I've ever seen
Speaker 1: in my entire life standing. It was like there's a
Speaker 1: Walmart and there was a pond and a giant buck
Speaker 1: standing on the side of the road. And it was
Speaker 1: burned in my mind, you know, and when I when
Speaker 1: I fly over now, I still try to look down
Speaker 1: and make sense. I didn't think to, you know, put
Speaker 1: a label on him anything, but it seems always sticks
Speaker 1: in my mind. It was it was, uh the week.
Speaker 1: It was the week after fourth of July, and so
Speaker 1: we we had west out of Minneapolis. We start getting out,
Speaker 1: you know, you start transitioning out onto the prairie. And
Speaker 1: even though it's a week after fourth of July, people
Speaker 1: are still cooking off fireworks everywhere. At dusk, there's this
Speaker 1: big thunderheads coming in and against these thunderheads and all
Speaker 1: these small towns. You see all these fireworks going off,
Speaker 1: and it was kind of between that buck and then
Speaker 1: as as seeing that back in the evening that we
Speaker 1: went a little farther and seeing all that, it was
Speaker 1: sort of this combination of all things I like about America,
Speaker 1: which should be like great wildlife, this kind of infectious patriotism, right,
Speaker 1: a willingness to blow your fingers off in pursuit of
Speaker 1: a good time and natural beauty and the weirdness of
Speaker 1: it all, and also what the writer Ian Frasier kind
Speaker 1: of lovingly described as the trigger happiness of being an American.
Speaker 1: And uh so I think about that often coming through here.
Speaker 1: This time through we did two things like last night
Speaker 1: we we did a thing last night and I thing
Speaker 1: this morning. Last night we went out on Lake Minnetonka
Speaker 1: and tried for a little while to catch a muskie,
Speaker 1: which didn't work out for any of us. Joanna's called
Speaker 1: a large mouth bass that was as big as his plug. Um.
Speaker 1: They say it's the fish of ten thousand casts. Between us,
Speaker 1: we logged a thousand plus casts. So we have nine
Speaker 1: more trips to go and one of us to catch
Speaker 1: a big musky. But the thing I like, it's kind
Speaker 1: of weird because when you go somewhere and you you
Speaker 1: if you go from not knowing about something and then
Speaker 1: it quickly becomes your least favorite thing, it's disconcerting. But
Speaker 1: this thing of that you get a boat that you
Speaker 1: can fill the boat with water so that it sinks
Speaker 1: down and makes a gigantic wave, do you then surf
Speaker 1: on It's like the surfing version of shooting preserved pheasants,
Speaker 1: and and like, you know, God forbid that if this
Speaker 1: lake did have one stretch of natural show line where
Speaker 1: there was like some debris and reads and stuff, you
Speaker 1: can kiss Agobie with the whole lakes and you know,
Speaker 1: six ft waves. What's the problem. There wasn't a little
Speaker 1: park that we fished in front of. It'll be gone
Speaker 1: in a week. If this fad, it's just like making
Speaker 1: surfing waves fads. Thing goes. But then this morning we
Speaker 1: got up and did we visited the Federal Ammunition had
Speaker 1: World Headquarters plant. That was fascinating. I'm gonna run through
Speaker 1: a handful of things that I learned that I didn't know,
Speaker 1: and you guys can jump in and crack me where
Speaker 1: I might be wrong, but for starters, we were gonna
Speaker 1: ask this as a trivia question earlier. A belted magnum.
Speaker 1: The belt on a belted magnum serves no purpose, right,
Speaker 1: It used to, but it doesn't. Now it doesn't strengthen anything.
Speaker 1: It's just there for no reason. Um, it was just
Speaker 1: so everybody else a Originally it was there to measure headspace.
Speaker 1: The measure headspace, but now it's just there because people
Speaker 1: feel that it ought to be there does nothing. Um, Brass,
Speaker 1: why is it brass? Brass? Like that flash of heat
Speaker 1: right expands the metal, brass goes back when it cools,
Speaker 1: it goes back to the shape it was other metals.
Speaker 1: If you made a casing and it expanded, it would
Speaker 1: just conform to the contours of the thing. You never
Speaker 1: be able to jack the cartridge out. Hence brass. Uh.
Speaker 1: The color coding system with shotgun shells that it used
Speaker 1: to be all color coded out. Everyone got away from
Speaker 1: the different color coding systems, but the only one they
Speaker 1: stayed true on is the twenty gauge remains yellow. Everybody
Speaker 1: else kind of walked away from different ones, and in fact,
Speaker 1: Federal makes a pink twelve gage shell which is like
Speaker 1: breast cancer awareness, and some of the proceeds for that
Speaker 1: go to that. They make a box where you get
Speaker 1: it where it's all red, white and blue shot shells,
Speaker 1: which is the Patriot Box, and that goes to veterans things.
Speaker 1: But the rest we've just gotten rid of the whole thing,
Speaker 1: all of that lead. So all the lead in the shot,
Speaker 1: so everything, the lead bullets and all the shot pellets
Speaker 1: that all comes from recycled car batteries from near here.
Speaker 1: There's like Gopher what was it, I wrote it down,
Speaker 1: Gopher Resources. Car batteries China, Mexico, all over the world
Speaker 1: come here, and those lead batteries are what goes into
Speaker 1: So when you're out shooting federal shot, you're shooting recycled
Speaker 1: lead batteries, which I thought was pretty cool. Um trying
Speaker 1: to then you know, what are lessons am I missing? Here?
Speaker 1: He gets a drawn a blank. Oh, the plastic and
Speaker 1: the shot shells is all local from Imperial Plastics. Did
Speaker 1: you guys pick up anything you were on the tour?
Speaker 1: I fed you half that stuff that I was emailing
Speaker 1: myself during the tour of stuff that I didn't want
Speaker 1: it forgets. I wanted to remember they put clove and
Speaker 1: cinnamon in the ballistic gael yes, so it doesn't smell
Speaker 1: so bad when it starts to melt. I found that
Speaker 1: that was very interesting because clobe cinnamon has been used
Speaker 1: to take down the smell at DAFT for a thousand years,
Speaker 1: still in use today we're adding the federal ammunition. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The ballistic gel is like animal gellatson. I didn't know
Speaker 1: about that either. It's the most satisfying thing in the
Speaker 1: world to slap. It's just like wow, I loved it. Um.
Speaker 1: The biggest game changer, though, I thought, was this new
Speaker 1: tungsten combination steel and tungsten pellets. That was with a
Speaker 1: four ten shotgun. Now they're putting more kill shots into
Speaker 1: a turkey, more baby's in that turkey's neck area. I
Speaker 1: think we were like ten years ago with a twelve gauge. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought that was really cool. Your children will all
Speaker 1: hunt turkeys with four tens. Uh. But right now, like
Speaker 1: in most states, you can't because the laws are sort
Speaker 1: of lagging behind the efficacy of where they're at with
Speaker 1: the new materials. So we learned all about all that stuff. Um.
Speaker 1: First thing I want to get into outside of that
Speaker 1: is uh, a couple of clarifications that I want to
Speaker 1: run through from some other shows. Uh. We recently talked
Speaker 1: about our friend Doug during and how his deer and
Speaker 1: most of deer, like all the deer around here, like
Speaker 1: deer aren't organic, right because most crop fields today, like
Speaker 1: most agricultural as you go to the corn we lfel
Speaker 1: for this does not organic. And deer are free ranging,
Speaker 1: which is another thing we like about him and these
Speaker 1: free ranging deer, I want to walk all over and
Speaker 1: eat these crops. In fact, a lot of them feed
Speaker 1: on GMO crops, is certainly not organic crops. So most
Speaker 1: of the white tailed deer that we eat, we're not
Speaker 1: even organic deer. But Doug wanted to point out He's like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: my dear aren't organic, but my cattle are because they're
Speaker 1: not quite free ranging. So he's able to limit his
Speaker 1: cattle enough to keep him organic even though his deer aren't.
Speaker 1: Another guy wrote him, we're talking about road kill, and
Speaker 1: we were complaining about restrictive draconian roadkill laws here in America,
Speaker 1: and he says, man, the lunacy extends up to Canada.
Speaker 1: He does, Dear moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. One day's driving on
Speaker 1: the road and it hits the Hungarian partridge gets off
Speaker 1: his car, goes and grabs it. A police officer pulls up,
Speaker 1: thinking he's having car problems. The police officer, after while
Speaker 1: I was like, what's in the bag? He tells him
Speaker 1: what it is. The cop confiscates it, and the guy says,
Speaker 1: the Morald of the story, I keep my road kills secret.
Speaker 1: Another guy we're talking about, like, we're talking this thing
Speaker 1: that happens where let's see go out and you get
Speaker 1: a bad hit on a deer and you don't find
Speaker 1: the deer until later, and the meats not salvageable, but
Speaker 1: you find the deer and you want to keep the antlers.
Speaker 1: We're talking about, like what sort of happens. How does
Speaker 1: your relationship with those antlers change? Right? Because it wasn't
Speaker 1: like you got it got it. You kind of got
Speaker 1: it or not really got it. But now you have
Speaker 1: this thing, and so what are you do when you're
Speaker 1: looking at it? And this dude wrote in to say
Speaker 1: that he hit one. He hit a buck with his
Speaker 1: bowl and lost it and didn't find until the next
Speaker 1: spring hunting morrel's and by then a squirrel had gnawed
Speaker 1: off one of the main beams, and he was writing
Speaker 1: in about wondering if it would make sense for him
Speaker 1: to get a squirrel mounted chewing on his deer antlets.
Speaker 1: And I was saying that I think that it would
Speaker 1: better to ask me than to ask the squirrel this question.
Speaker 1: But I would say absolutely, I would go ahead and
Speaker 1: do it. Another clarification I think warrants some attention is
Speaker 1: we had a recent debate about like if you say,
Speaker 1: if you say I'm gonna thaw out a turkey breast,
Speaker 1: it opens up the question is do you mean both
Speaker 1: or does a breast refer to one? And someone says, like,
Speaker 1: if you say he gave me half a breast, does
Speaker 1: that mean he gave you half of the meat on
Speaker 1: a turkey or does that mean he took one side
Speaker 1: of a turkey and cut that in half and gave you,
Speaker 1: in fact, a quarter of the turkey. And this guy said,
Speaker 1: you can solve this whole thing by picking up the
Speaker 1: commercial poultry term of a lobe, and a chicken has
Speaker 1: two lobes, so if you were to give someone a
Speaker 1: loban you've give them half a turkey. If you were
Speaker 1: to cut a lobe and half that's a quarter of
Speaker 1: a turkey. And I'm gonna start adopting you will start
Speaker 1: hearing the term lobe all the time on this show. Um.
Speaker 1: Another thing on the subject of turkeys we talked about recently,
Speaker 1: talked about a bearded hen. Most states don't say male
Speaker 1: female wild turkey. They stipulate or specified that you're allowed
Speaker 1: to kill a bearded turkey. And it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: one in a hundred female turkeys have a beard. So
Speaker 1: it just so happens if you hunt turkeys long, if
Speaker 1: you're gonna wind up with a hen, have you you
Speaker 1: got one? I passed up, You've passed up to no
Speaker 1: negative negative. He was saying there's a hidden value in
Speaker 1: bearded hens is you can get the rare opportunity, which
Speaker 1: is otherwise illegal, to consume a wild turkey's egg. And
Speaker 1: he got a bearded hand and found an egg, and
Speaker 1: he reported the egg to be large, excellent in flavor,
Speaker 1: with an unusually thick shell. Uh. In response to nothing
Speaker 1: except maybe in response to my buddy Ronnie BAM's maximum
Speaker 1: that you should never wear a hat that has more
Speaker 1: personality than you do, a guy rolled in with the observation,
Speaker 1: it's a proven fact that a man's credibility is inversely
Speaker 1: proportional to the flatness of his hat brim. He I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't agree. I don't necessarily agree on his pointing
Speaker 1: out because Janni's for a while was running like kind
Speaker 1: of flat brim. Yanni almost went flat. He still kept
Speaker 1: his ears outside of the hat, but was he was
Speaker 1: like flirting with running flat. And I think you kind
Speaker 1: of pulled back, right. I just usually wear them how
Speaker 1: they come. I haven't been wearing hats as much of
Speaker 1: the last maybe ten years or so, only when I'm
Speaker 1: in the wood, so I'm not thinking too much about
Speaker 1: how they look, so when when I get them, they
Speaker 1: just go on my head. When I was a boy, uh, people,
Speaker 1: it was a fad for a while to take your
Speaker 1: hat and wrap the bill around a beer can and
Speaker 1: put a rubber band on to give it like a
Speaker 1: power curl. Yeah yeah, yeah, you guys aren't there, but
Speaker 1: you're you're running. Used I used to hunk mine in
Speaker 1: a in a pint glass. I just tramp it there
Speaker 1: and shove it down in the glassubber band just in
Speaker 1: a pint glass and curl it quite nicely. But you're
Speaker 1: you're you're flattening. It's evolved that as the Jersey Tunnel.
Speaker 1: Then another thing, uh, the journalist. I did an interview
Speaker 1: with the journalist Tony Jones, and afterward he rode into UH,
Speaker 1: He's wanted to send me this thing we talked about
Speaker 1: earlier today that UH, Minnesota has released its new management
Speaker 1: plan and they're figuring there's enough white tails on the
Speaker 1: ground where they have the goal of harvesting two hundred
Speaker 1: thousand white tails annually. And I remember seeing that and
Speaker 1: thinking like, man, if someone wasn't familiar with just how
Speaker 1: many deer there were and sort of where we're at
Speaker 1: and and deer recovery relative to where we were, you know,
Speaker 1: a hundred years ago, they would see that number and
Speaker 1: maybe have like a funny feeling about it. But then
Speaker 1: I thought it would I wanted to check and compare
Speaker 1: it to something. And if you think two hundred thousand
Speaker 1: deer is a lot, this country slaughters that many cattle
Speaker 1: every two days. So that kind of puts that deer
Speaker 1: harvest into perspective. Uh. Another thing to put into perspective,
Speaker 1: and this this is for Callahan here. Ryan, can you
Speaker 1: explain how you recently did some liaising like you did
Speaker 1: some liaising with are you comfortable talking about this? But
Speaker 1: I keep asking a thousand questions about yeah, okay, no,
Speaker 1: I mean there's when we set it up or do
Speaker 1: you want to go for it? Okay. Ryan Callahan had
Speaker 1: the audacity of hanging out with someone from the company Patagonia,
Speaker 1: who has had over the years some like the founder
Speaker 1: is a hunter, does some amount of hunting and fishing.
Speaker 1: The company itself has given voice to some individuals have
Speaker 1: decidedly anti hunting stance. And Ryan has been doing some
Speaker 1: hanging out in liaison liaising. That's a word, right, And
Speaker 1: we keep and people keep writing me to gripe about it,
Speaker 1: like how dare you know? How dare he do that? Right?
Speaker 1: And and and this is the last thing gonna say
Speaker 1: about the topic. I do not mind now the great
Speaker 1: I take. I'm starting to get kind of torked with that.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Well, that was all I would say, Like
Speaker 1: if if I was gonna say, you know, you remember,
Speaker 1: like Nixon, that Nixon was so anti communist, right, his
Speaker 1: anti COMMI credentials were so solidly established that old he
Speaker 1: and only he could go and interact with Red China. Right,
Speaker 1: So I'm like if I'm gonna send a hunting dude
Speaker 1: to go talk to some non hunting dudes like you're
Speaker 1: my Nixon's know what I'm saying. So I don't know
Speaker 1: why it Also it's like, oh, he's selling hunters out.
Speaker 1: He's not a true hunter now because he talked to
Speaker 1: a non hunter. Please. Yeah. So I have this very
Speaker 1: firm belief that we are not we're not doing ourselves
Speaker 1: any justice by only speaking like I can come out
Speaker 1: here and talk to you guys every night, all night,
Speaker 1: no matter rain shines, no whatever, and tell you how
Speaker 1: great hunting is and how much we do for wildlife
Speaker 1: and conservation and how we're supporting everything. And by doing that,
Speaker 1: I am not, sadly not going to ensure that we
Speaker 1: will have hunting, wildlife public lands access for the future.
Speaker 1: I'm just not because our group just isn't going to
Speaker 1: grow that fast. So speaking to lots of people who
Speaker 1: enjoy that public land and that access, but they don't
Speaker 1: necessarily hunt, they don't necessarily dislike hunting. That is the
Speaker 1: way I believe that we are going to ensure hunting
Speaker 1: public lands access long into the future of America does
Speaker 1: not hunt. But how are we going to grow that
Speaker 1: hunting number and ensure hunting because we have some you
Speaker 1: do it be hiding behind your middle finger. That's what
Speaker 1: some people would like to see happen. So you're not
Speaker 1: This isn't a thing. You're not gonna sell us all
Speaker 1: out all of a sudden, I've been a mole. Turns
Speaker 1: out you're covering the hunting world for a long time. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I appreciate you taking the time to set it there
Speaker 1: because I haven't had the energy to reply to the
Speaker 1: to the criticism, but it's been annoying me. What the
Speaker 1: gripe just annoys me. It's like, how dare you talk
Speaker 1: to somebody who doesn't think the way we think? He
Speaker 1: got an email to day from the guy that wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna buy a first light anymore because Callahan talked to
Speaker 1: a nine hunter. It's like, dude, I like, I saw
Speaker 1: I sleep with one. I haven't sold y'all out. You
Speaker 1: just lost your podcast, so betrayed all right? Here? Here
Speaker 1: here's a here, here's a conversation. I think more some discussion.
Speaker 1: This is a good one. It's from a dude um
Speaker 1: in California, non hunter, and I curiously to get you
Speaker 1: guys perspective on this. So he he has a garden,
Speaker 1: right and lo and behold, all kinds of rabbits come
Speaker 1: and start consuming his vegetables in his garden, and he
Speaker 1: gets to reading about how he or an appointee can
Speaker 1: harvest rabbits that are doing damage to his garden where
Speaker 1: he lives. Gradually he comes to that he likes the
Speaker 1: rabbits more than the vegetables because he starts eating the rabbits.
Speaker 1: So then he gets to thinking, I'm just gonna plant
Speaker 1: a lot more stuff that they like in order I'm
Speaker 1: really He's like realized, I'm really in this for the rabbits.
Speaker 1: But then he listens to us talk about different issues
Speaker 1: around legality, issues around baiting, So he's just trying to
Speaker 1: get like, ethically and legally, where am I? Like? Is
Speaker 1: this is this the baiting that everyone's always debating? And
Speaker 1: in my perspective, like I can't speak, I can't speak
Speaker 1: to the legal situation in California. My perspective that would
Speaker 1: be it's like it doesn't matter in my mind, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter that you've made a mental transition to perceiving it.
Speaker 1: It's like it is not the law would say, um,
Speaker 1: you could kill rabbits that are destroying your garden only
Speaker 1: if you're sad about it, like it would never like
Speaker 1: the law would never go there, you know. But on
Speaker 1: the on the legal end, I have no clue. Is
Speaker 1: it a game species California that yeah? And I think
Speaker 1: I think in California most states laws is doing damage
Speaker 1: to your personal property you can you can harvest it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I read that. I thought this is a guy after
Speaker 1: my heart. That's the kind of stuff most of us
Speaker 1: grew up doing. I remember being stuck out in the
Speaker 1: horse barn where I lived a little bit shock basically
Speaker 1: with the one little win doll and sitting out there
Speaker 1: on the pellet rifle protecting the strawberry crop. Anything that
Speaker 1: flew in there, I shoot. I usually miss it, but
Speaker 1: that was your purpose for being out there, and you're
Speaker 1: encouraged to do that. Never rabbit came, so you definitely
Speaker 1: shot it. And the thing of baiting if it's something
Speaker 1: that the human would eat anyway, you'll never know what
Speaker 1: they're going to bother you about that. No, if you
Speaker 1: if it was migratory waterfowl would be an entirely different story.
Speaker 1: But it's not. So I think he's probably he's like cool,
Speaker 1: he's cool. Llegally, I think ethnically, it's not like a
Speaker 1: it's a pop. It's an ethical positive, you know, because
Speaker 1: he's gardening. He's raising me and vegetables. Yeah, I could
Speaker 1: thought it sounded like a really good dual purpose garden.
Speaker 1: Dual purpose gardening. That's what you got to do a
Speaker 1: book about that. And the fact the fact he's eating its.
Speaker 1: Most people that kill an animal doing damage, they bury it.
Speaker 1: This guy is eating the stuff I think is to
Speaker 1: be commended. He's feeling good. I feel good about it.
Speaker 1: Another guy, so a Texan rode in was something similar
Speaker 1: that that I like a lot. Uh. But he's misreading
Speaker 1: his regulations because he's saying, you know, you're not allowed
Speaker 1: to use a mechanical like you're not allowed to use
Speaker 1: electronic things on on archery equipment. Whatever. Well, he discovered
Speaker 1: he's a vapor like VP pens. Okay, it's like a
Speaker 1: thousand thoughts about VP pens. But he's he likes to
Speaker 1: have a man's he's running a mango flavored vape pen
Speaker 1: while he hunts. And the first observation that this guy
Speaker 1: has about it is that what an amazing wind indicator
Speaker 1: it is. He says, there's something about like the way
Speaker 1: that smoke hangs in the air that it's like it
Speaker 1: gives a very nuanced read of what the wind's doing.
Speaker 1: But then he starts to realize he's starting to think
Speaker 1: that deer are liking that smell, and so he's struggling
Speaker 1: with is like I'm sort of doing a sort of
Speaker 1: electronic baiting by vaping out in the woods. He's like,
Speaker 1: you might wonder why it started. He says, I like
Speaker 1: the party, and so trying to do anything to this
Speaker 1: and I'm missing, oh you know, I know what I
Speaker 1: was gonna say about that. I remember think besides anybody
Speaker 1: else's opinion about it. So he's wondering, like, am I
Speaker 1: crossing him moral ground here by vaping out in the
Speaker 1: woods and luring and deer with mangoes sent but um,
Speaker 1: the same thing he was already vaping in ways. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, Doug Dern's piss is very attractive to deer.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't be like, yeah, buckman juice right right. You
Speaker 1: would never say like everyone could pee in the woods
Speaker 1: except dog because buckman juice draws in dear you know again,
Speaker 1: like it doesn't transfer over, Well, he wouldn't have you over. First,
Speaker 1: thanks for giving away my number one big buck secret.
Speaker 1: And second, seriously, I would think that if you are
Speaker 1: allowed to use sense and lures in your state, then
Speaker 1: that would just probably fall within that category. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think he's worried for no reason. I wonder if he
Speaker 1: goes through a smoke shop. Seems they have alfalfa alfalfa infused.
Speaker 1: We uh, okay, that was on the subject of baiting.
Speaker 1: Now we're rolling back into I want to say, like
Speaker 1: on the subject of rabbits, even though we have we're
Speaker 1: a step removed from rabbits, but a good one. And
Speaker 1: this is the one that comes in all the time.
Speaker 1: And this is all part like we keep hearing about.
Speaker 1: Our three is the three R R retention of hunters,
Speaker 1: retention and reactivation. So you'd get people to hunt, keep
Speaker 1: them hunting. If they quit, you get him back hunting again,
Speaker 1: the R three. So I think all of these things
Speaker 1: falling the R three. Like to take this one. And
Speaker 1: this guy is like talking about suburban squirrels and rabbits
Speaker 1: and how people keep telling them, oh, you can't eat
Speaker 1: those because there's never an answer. But there's this like
Speaker 1: prejudice against suburban They live amongst dirty people. It's part
Speaker 1: it's like part of self. It's like self loading and stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing right, that's what he's like. Do they eat
Speaker 1: stuff that that they eat stuff? Yeah, they eat the stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, nasty we are. I've looked into this endlessly,
Speaker 1: and the one the only one I ever heard. The
Speaker 1: thought was kind of interesting, like, let's start with the
Speaker 1: disease one. The disease ones, no, because like all these roads, um,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter wild suburban. Even though the suburban ones
Speaker 1: are quite wild. Uh, there's some like some of them
Speaker 1: can have mites that could feasibly carry bubonic plague. You
Speaker 1: can get tularemia from a rabbit. I don't think that
Speaker 1: tularemia discriminates between ones that live kind of buy a
Speaker 1: house and ones of really far away from the house.
Speaker 1: So the disease one is no. But the one compelling
Speaker 1: argument I heard one time would be that what if
Speaker 1: the squirrel had eaten some rat poisoning And I've asked
Speaker 1: around to a couple of doctors and they just like
Speaker 1: they're just they don't but not seeing it. It would
Speaker 1: be that so it ate it and then you got
Speaker 1: it right after it ate it and then you ate
Speaker 1: its stomach contents or something. It just isn't a isn't
Speaker 1: a thing. They would have to stay alive long enough
Speaker 1: for that poison to be absorbed into the meat somehow,
Speaker 1: and even then it's like an anti there's an anti
Speaker 1: coagulant in it. It just I don't think it's a
Speaker 1: problem I have I don't have in a pretty suburban setting,
Speaker 1: but certainly by my standards very I mean, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: an urban I'm an urban night and uh in a
Speaker 1: very teeny towne. Yeah. And I have rabbits that live
Speaker 1: in my woodpile and I don't is Lee Malone. And
Speaker 1: there's this older fellow that comes and walks by my
Speaker 1: place every single day and the only thing he says
Speaker 1: to me is how are those rabbits doing? And at
Speaker 1: this point I kind of remind him that they were
Speaker 1: likely not the same rabbits because he has a sense
Speaker 1: of ownership. Um, and I have a couple of bulls.
Speaker 1: I don't have space on the insides. I have a
Speaker 1: couple of bull heads hanging outside the fish no like
Speaker 1: uh yeah, and uh so I think maybe saying it like, hey,
Speaker 1: don't kill those rabbits. And I have pondered killing the rabbits.
Speaker 1: And it's not this like, oh they're dirty rabbits thing
Speaker 1: that's keeping me from killing them. It's the Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: the old like outfitter adage, like you don't take the
Speaker 1: timber next to camp because get snowed into camp. You're
Speaker 1: gonna need that. Yeah, it's part of your like you're
Speaker 1: like a prepper. Yeah, like one day those rabbits could
Speaker 1: come in real handy. I'm not exaggerating. I've eat like
Speaker 1: over the course of my lifetime, I've probably eaten Yeah, definitely, definitely,
Speaker 1: way in excess, like into the hundreds of squirrels and
Speaker 1: rabbits from the rural suburban interface and some quite a
Speaker 1: number of squirrels from the epicenter of the nation's largest megalopolis,
Speaker 1: which I don't want to go into great detail about.
Speaker 1: And all you've ever come down with is lime disease
Speaker 1: and tricks and yeah. And when I got trigger nosis,
Speaker 1: it was about as far away from a person as
Speaker 1: you can get, so no problems there um on the
Speaker 1: you see how I'm You see how I'm like the
Speaker 1: trans how good the transitions are. Check this one out
Speaker 1: on the subject of food safety. Dude's wondering, Uh, bon
Speaker 1: in neck rolls? So I like bon in neck rolls
Speaker 1: in c w D. Right, it's that used to like
Speaker 1: we used to just like cut up a deer, do
Speaker 1: you mind? I used to cut him right here at
Speaker 1: the jaw and I cut him right here and just
Speaker 1: take that whole thing and cook it. And and it's
Speaker 1: like as much as as much as there's no like
Speaker 1: there's no evidence, not no evidence that we know it
Speaker 1: hasn't happened. Like there's there's no one's no humans contracted
Speaker 1: c w D as far as we know, no Kayo
Speaker 1: has contracted CWD. No black bears contracted c w D. Um.
Speaker 1: That's probably just though, because it's a fake, uh that
Speaker 1: he's made up by the government. Then I learned, I'm
Speaker 1: glad you brought that up here because I wanted to
Speaker 1: touch about the new is it honestly new idea? Like
Speaker 1: the new idea that it's all that is. I've only
Speaker 1: heard about that new idea in the last couple of weeks. Yeah, that,
Speaker 1: in fact, it's not true. It's funny because one, I
Speaker 1: hope that those people are right. I would much rather
Speaker 1: have to deal with a large government conspiracy, then I
Speaker 1: would have to do with the potential contamination of my
Speaker 1: my preferred food source. So it's like I hope that
Speaker 1: it's I would love it to tomorrow realize it's all
Speaker 1: this big lie. But I also find it's funny that
Speaker 1: so much of the that that, like some of the
Speaker 1: people who don't believe that there's a disease called c
Speaker 1: w D happen to be involved in the captive servant industry.
Speaker 1: It's like, that's like too coincidental and sort of convenient
Speaker 1: to overlook. But to get back to the neck rols thing,
Speaker 1: it's like, even though there's no like it hasn't made,
Speaker 1: that hasn't jumped the barrier, right, so there's no predators
Speaker 1: that have gotten that, humans that have gotten it. Um.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of questions about how long it's been.
Speaker 1: There has certainly been there. Humans have absolutely certainly consumed
Speaker 1: thousands of pounds of c w D. In fact that
Speaker 1: venison absolutely um. But it's changed the way I look
Speaker 1: at it. It's changed like now I'm like still do it.
Speaker 1: But if I'm like, hone in Wisconsin, we had it's
Speaker 1: like a c w D area and you get free testing,
Speaker 1: so you get back to like negative. But I still
Speaker 1: can't help perceive it differently. Well, when they did a test,
Speaker 1: the first thing I tell you in your card you
Speaker 1: get back, it'll say to the something to the effect
Speaker 1: that we cannot find evidence of c w D in
Speaker 1: your sample. But that does not guarantee c w D
Speaker 1: is not present in that meat. You know, day I
Speaker 1: tell you that. Um, the thing that we're doing now
Speaker 1: the wing Wisconsin is the law changed now. If you're
Speaker 1: in a c w a c w D area and
Speaker 1: you kill a deer there, you cannot remove the bones
Speaker 1: from that deer in that area. It has to stay
Speaker 1: in that area. And then like dug her And wants
Speaker 1: to have a dumpster for the public to use right
Speaker 1: outside of his farm there and his driveways for people,
Speaker 1: and people can dump their dump their bones there be
Speaker 1: done with it and not discarded, not being started out
Speaker 1: in the landscape. You know, because right now, in the past,
Speaker 1: you could basically shoot a deer at Dougs farm or
Speaker 1: my uncle's farm ten miles down the road and go
Speaker 1: home with it, and no one ever got ticketed for
Speaker 1: bringing home a deer across out of the county. Even
Speaker 1: though it's putting against the law of for fifteen twenty
Speaker 1: years now. But to get back to the question, you know, personally,
Speaker 1: at sixty two years old, I'm not too worried about
Speaker 1: being the first human to come down with c w D.
Speaker 1: The same way you look at the tattoo, the same
Speaker 1: thing the tattoo, the same exact thing. Um, But I'll
Speaker 1: be damned from that. Make a neck roast and sear
Speaker 1: it's my grandkids. You know, I don't think, okay, if
Speaker 1: it comes to a c w D area or any
Speaker 1: deer um CWD area, I guess I'm just not getting
Speaker 1: that worked up about it when I go out to
Speaker 1: Idaho and shoot an elk out there Arizona or something.
Speaker 1: But I I guess if I were in the Midwest
Speaker 1: nol though, like right here in Minnesota too, and northern Wisconsin,
Speaker 1: northern Wisconsin, we phone to c D c w D
Speaker 1: deer on the Wisconsin River up by Ryan Lander, which
Speaker 1: is up in a northern forest, which they aren't They
Speaker 1: have been sampling, so we can't say where cw D
Speaker 1: is not anymore because we aren't haven't been checking for it.
Speaker 1: And if we're gonna complain about our states not doing
Speaker 1: their job. Our agencies, That's what I'd say, We're not
Speaker 1: doing our job. We aren't doing a good job of surveying.
Speaker 1: They have a big area periodically to just make sure real, kay,
Speaker 1: because we don't know right now. Well, you have you have, sorry,
Speaker 1: you have c w D within uh you know, a
Speaker 1: hundred air miles probably of where you hunt elk in Idaho, definitely,
Speaker 1: and and and definitely I'm not that far off of
Speaker 1: a lot of places where I hunt and Idaho, and
Speaker 1: certainly I have it m probably in the spots that
Speaker 1: I hunt in Montana. So I really want to know.
Speaker 1: How comfortable are you taking that whole altc roast? I well,
Speaker 1: there again, I'm not packing any meet my name, bones
Speaker 1: out is boning it out and taking taking just to meat.
Speaker 1: So I don't I don't worry about a whole lot.
Speaker 1: But there's something about leaving that bone in that neck
Speaker 1: neck roast. I think that had me a little bit
Speaker 1: more uneasy. Yeah, it just feels a little different, did
Speaker 1: you think. I don't know if you have folks follow
Speaker 1: all this, but the preons that they think caused c
Speaker 1: w D is in that's a lot of it's in
Speaker 1: the spinal column. That's where they find it in the
Speaker 1: heaviest concentrations, and so who, I don't know. I guess
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to do it. I feel like also
Speaker 1: it's one of the few recommendations that they actually make,
Speaker 1: like if you're not gonna do anything, like, don't do this,
Speaker 1: like like you said, stay away from the spinal column,
Speaker 1: don't saw through it. But then a legitimate question that
Speaker 1: I have about CWD is the deer aren't contracting it
Speaker 1: from one another by eating each other's spinal column. So
Speaker 1: it's like fluids or this that the other. So is
Speaker 1: it not even is it not necessarily even a hunter
Speaker 1: issue or I consume deer issue. Is it just it's
Speaker 1: in the landscape issue? Yeah, well it's a good question.
Speaker 1: But the thing you return to all the time is like,
Speaker 1: no one's gotten it. As much as I was goofing
Speaker 1: on people who I think, there's this big spectrum, like
Speaker 1: like when people are great about the c WD and
Speaker 1: the deniers, right, I'm using I'm making a little quality
Speaker 1: uh symbols of my hands right now, that's a spectrum.
Speaker 1: It's a spectrum of attitudes, Okay. And I think the
Speaker 1: ones who say like there's no such thing. I think
Speaker 1: is is goofy and kind of laughable, right, but there's
Speaker 1: a reasonable position to say, um, it's it's there. I
Speaker 1: agree that this is a thing that happens to deer um.
Speaker 1: It may have been here a long time. We weren't
Speaker 1: aware of it. We just we know when we identified it.
Speaker 1: But there could be this long window of existence where
Speaker 1: it was just we've just been having it. It's this
Speaker 1: thing that occurs naturally, not too long. No, you don't know. No,
Speaker 1: that the history that at disease, they would think based
Speaker 1: on what was first discovering Wisconsin, they thought it probably
Speaker 1: showed up probably somewhere between ten twenty years before based
Speaker 1: on the epidemiology or that disease could go back to
Speaker 1: the sixties. Yeah, when when folks say this disease has
Speaker 1: been around forever, that's not true. And you know, you
Speaker 1: don't want to just calm b users, but you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's just not true. It's it's just a really
Speaker 1: recent disease, and I just think we have to deal
Speaker 1: with it now. But yeah, when I go deer hunting, though,
Speaker 1: I you know where I hunt. You've been the farm
Speaker 1: where I hunt. Your cousin or aunt. My it's my
Speaker 1: cousin's farm. Now it's my my laid uncle and an.
Speaker 1: So that's where I yeah, yeah, And she always wants
Speaker 1: you guys to come back because she likes you guys
Speaker 1: all the gates. But it's still it's still for me
Speaker 1: as much fun as it's ever bend. It's something you know,
Speaker 1: our family gets together, sorry, one time a year hun
Speaker 1: the weekend basically, and that's it. It's still fun. But
Speaker 1: but I'm more careful about now as far as boning
Speaker 1: things out and as why as a person boning out anyway.
Speaker 1: But now I thought the new law is going in,
Speaker 1: I think, well, that's one of those laws that makes sense.
Speaker 1: It's a little more inconvenient if it makes sense, and
Speaker 1: I think, you know, you know, it's good public policy.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, that that's what what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: That that that like spectrum thing. I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: identify the point of the spectrum where my annoyance goes away.
Speaker 1: And the thing that I find is like people like
Speaker 1: I think I found about human beings is we tend
Speaker 1: to like easy ideas that make us feel good. So
Speaker 1: when I am talking to someone who's like, I don't
Speaker 1: see the big deal. I'm just gonna continue eating it.
Speaker 1: I'm like hell yeah, man, right for a couple of minutes,
Speaker 1: and then some other guys like, bro, do you want
Speaker 1: to be the one? And I'm like, oh no, And
Speaker 1: I get that sinking feeling, you know, its part is.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's what I struggle with too, because
Speaker 1: when and you know this, and I think you've I've
Speaker 1: heard you describe it this way, but when you pull
Speaker 1: that necrosed out and you do it correctly, you can
Speaker 1: basically take that spinal column and remove it, and it
Speaker 1: is so clean, and it instantly like drives. You can
Speaker 1: put it in the Smithsonian it is. It is so clean.
Speaker 1: And that is so deeply satisfying to look at that
Speaker 1: whitening bone that has zero meat on it, because I
Speaker 1: feel like I've just done my job as an appreciator
Speaker 1: of that animal, and that's what I potentially have to
Speaker 1: throw away because that neck is so hard to debone properly,
Speaker 1: Like you will never get at that clean in the field. No, no, dude,
Speaker 1: I don't care how nice your boning knife, you will not.
Speaker 1: It's wasteful to bone out of neck. You need to
Speaker 1: cook that some bitch down and yeah, times are changing, man,
Speaker 1: But again, I don't know if I'm gonna give up yet.
Speaker 1: On the subject of food safety, um health advisories in fish,
Speaker 1: so here we know like c W D Okay, it's theoretical,
Speaker 1: not theoretical, Like the idea that it was that a
Speaker 1: person can catch it has never happened. People eating thousands
Speaker 1: of pounds health advisories and fish, we damn sure know
Speaker 1: that heavy metals are no good for you. I eat
Speaker 1: that stuff like I eat fish out of health advisory
Speaker 1: lakes all the time. We eat big hall a bit,
Speaker 1: you know, without I never think about it. I try
Speaker 1: to hide the existence of health advisories to my wife
Speaker 1: because it's a conversation I don't feel like having where
Speaker 1: I live, Like where I live right now, they suggest
Speaker 1: that where I live right now, in fish yellow perchs,
Speaker 1: they suggest that you do not eat more than two meals.
Speaker 1: What is it, then, two meals of yellow perch out
Speaker 1: of this lake every month, but only yellow perch that
Speaker 1: are twelve inches Because at that point I think it's
Speaker 1: that at that point, when the yellow perches twelve inches,
Speaker 1: he becomes pisciferous, He becomes a fish eater, and so
Speaker 1: then he becomes a bioaccumulator um. But I don't pay
Speaker 1: attention to it because I just know that when I die,
Speaker 1: that's not gonna be what I die from. Like I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna die. And then they're do an autopsy and
Speaker 1: some dudees like was he eating perch? You know, It's
Speaker 1: just like it's just no way, man, And then this dude,
Speaker 1: I this dude I grew up around one of one
Speaker 1: of my one of my young fishing mentors, was this
Speaker 1: guy named Ron Spring, and they were trying to start
Speaker 1: the effects of heavy metals on mercury and other things
Speaker 1: on people who would consume fish, and everyone anywhere, everyone
Speaker 1: in a hundred miles of Ron Spring knew that if
Speaker 1: you want to talk to guy that eats a lot
Speaker 1: of fish, talk to Ron Spring. This guy's job he
Speaker 1: was a commercial bait fish, so he fished leeches, wigglers,
Speaker 1: dog worms, sane mentos, and supplied live bait to all
Speaker 1: the bait shops. But he also was a fish eating machine.
Speaker 1: So he starts going to Michigan State University for these
Speaker 1: batteries or no you of m they start having him
Speaker 1: out to do these batteries of tests where they say
Speaker 1: to him like, okay, check it out. You need to
Speaker 1: go to a grocery store and you gotta buy in
Speaker 1: a name like thirteen things he's supposed to buy. Then
Speaker 1: you have to go sit in the room by himself
Speaker 1: in a while later and like what are you supposed
Speaker 1: to buy? Again? And he came home from it once
Speaker 1: and said, Steve, I don't care if I ever a
Speaker 1: fish in my life, I wouldn't be able to remember
Speaker 1: that list. So but yeah, it's like I can't get on.
Speaker 1: I recognize, sure, but I just like catching neat and
Speaker 1: fish more than I feared out. There was a case
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin where a guy got really sick from I
Speaker 1: think as he a mercury or his mercury from he
Speaker 1: he took can pickled Northern Pike NonStop and ate it
Speaker 1: for I think he ate it daily and he did
Speaker 1: get sick. Was his name, Brody Henderson. I don't think so,
Speaker 1: but you know my my situation, I do. Actually they
Speaker 1: think he got sick. He definitely definitely got sick for him,
Speaker 1: But but then he was eating it in such quantities
Speaker 1: that he probably gotten sick of something. That's just he
Speaker 1: really lived on that stuff so and and it does accumulate,
Speaker 1: and it made him sick. That's a lot of it's
Speaker 1: a lot of pike, but he's eating it daily, well sick.
Speaker 1: We had to go to hospital. Did he get better?
Speaker 1: I think he survived it, but I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: have the whole history is it's probably ten years ago now.
Speaker 1: But the thing I think I was coming to when
Speaker 1: he when he was catching all these pike, did he
Speaker 1: have all the sinkers in his mouth? I did that
Speaker 1: for thirty years. I mean, you, okay, go on, But
Speaker 1: I should say though, that that is a freak a
Speaker 1: care and so I mean, when you eat that much
Speaker 1: fish where you actually make yourself sick from the build
Speaker 1: up of the heavy metals, that's such an unusual freak thing.
Speaker 1: I guess I just want I read that, but I
Speaker 1: thought I was just another freak story. Now that's where
Speaker 1: I write it off. I think for the average person
Speaker 1: to catch the kind of size pike and walleyes and
Speaker 1: and perch, whatever it might be, To catch enough of
Speaker 1: those those real heavy accumulated fish and then eat them
Speaker 1: on a regular basis enough to where you actually get
Speaker 1: sick is still take an awful lot of fish. So
Speaker 1: I guess I I read them, I pay attention to them.
Speaker 1: But then I started doing the math, and I think
Speaker 1: I'll never catch enough that fish to ever make a difference,
Speaker 1: you know. And so but but I think, for again though,
Speaker 1: that's for me, and when my wife was of a
Speaker 1: childbearing age, that we pay attention to that because I thought, well,
Speaker 1: again though, because I'm not the great of a fisherman,
Speaker 1: I look at how many wall as I caught three
Speaker 1: twenty inches long, that we're the ones you're supposed to avoid.
Speaker 1: To think what happens once a year? You know, where
Speaker 1: I catch your fish that big? And when that big,
Speaker 1: if you can keep tracking pretty easily and not feed
Speaker 1: it to her, and so so I think those kind
Speaker 1: of things that I think it's a good public information.
Speaker 1: I think we'd be bitching out our government if we
Speaker 1: weren't doing that. And so the fact, yeah, you can imagine, dude,
Speaker 1: if no one ever brought it up, and then someone
Speaker 1: some journalists unearthed these troves of research pieces about heavy
Speaker 1: metal contamination right Flint, Michigan on a fisherman level, and yeah,
Speaker 1: well not so it's a great analogy and that in
Speaker 1: the PCBs in fish on Lake Michigan. So I think
Speaker 1: it's a government's responsibility, you know, watching the public resource
Speaker 1: and publicly consumed fish has to do that, you know,
Speaker 1: it's I think it's a good responsibility. I think they
Speaker 1: should keep doing. And I'm always glad when it comes out.
Speaker 1: I I look it over and I got ah, I
Speaker 1: wanna affect me. I don't eat enough of them. I
Speaker 1: will say this. I grew up eating salmon about three
Speaker 1: days a week. You're from Pacific Northwest, and I'm still
Speaker 1: here to tell about it. I may not be I
Speaker 1: may not be the brightest, but I am sitting here
Speaker 1: right now. Uh. It's funny the way like people, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: go ahead, and you're still on the subject. Go ahead.
Speaker 1: I was gonna I was gonna move slightly off by
Speaker 1: something just occurred to me because I'm uh, for my
Speaker 1: tenth anniversary, my wife bought me one of these rubber
Speaker 1: rings instead of a metal ring ring. So you want
Speaker 1: to talk about like how we deal with risk, right,
Speaker 1: I've heard a couple isolated scenarios of dudes getting their
Speaker 1: ring hung up on something and sleeping their finger, and
Speaker 1: so for that it was enough for me to not
Speaker 1: wear my wedding game and switch to this. Okay, but
Speaker 1: I'll eat every contaminated fish that comes across my deep prior.
Speaker 1: We're all just like you're we're just like irrational. Yeah
Speaker 1: watch this. So you were worrying that when they're doing
Speaker 1: your autosic, they're like, fun of a bitch got sleeved
Speaker 1: and bled out. Yeah, like in some weird way enough
Speaker 1: to where I said to my wife, and I didn't
Speaker 1: ask for one, she didn't know what they were. But
Speaker 1: it's I've brought it up enough to the point where
Speaker 1: like at whatever point of spouse registers the idea for
Speaker 1: a gift, I've brought it up that number of times, like, man,
Speaker 1: you know, I sure hope I don't get sleeved by
Speaker 1: my ring. I think you need to describe sleeved. Well
Speaker 1: if if you ever want to see some terrible pictures
Speaker 1: if I happened to people who get sleeved, which is
Speaker 1: you know, uh, the ring catches like let's say you're
Speaker 1: screwing tree steps and you reach up and grab onto
Speaker 1: him and as you start stepping, you lose your you're footing,
Speaker 1: and it happens, and guys catch that wedding ring on
Speaker 1: the tip of that tree step. You want to see
Speaker 1: some gory. Just how many people start doing start? I wish,
Speaker 1: I wish. I remember the issue of Deer and Deer
Speaker 1: Hunting magazine when I was at Deer and Deer Running
Speaker 1: magazine back in the nineties. But we had a picture
Speaker 1: of a tree stand accident by Brad Herndon. He's a
Speaker 1: good writer and he's retired now down in Indiana, Indiana,
Speaker 1: and he had done one of those where he sleeped
Speaker 1: his his ring finger and we ran the picture in
Speaker 1: the magazine and I'll never get that image on my mind. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what turn. What would initially alarm me is I arked
Speaker 1: it on a boat battery and welded my finger to
Speaker 1: a boat battery. That's when I was like, how does However,
Speaker 1: I was holding the player and whatnot and messing with
Speaker 1: the boat battery and like leaning down, you know, and
Speaker 1: nothing like. Well then on there and I had to
Speaker 1: pop it off. And that's when I started my fear
Speaker 1: that I waited for. You here is the remedy with
Speaker 1: this here silicone, Well, I am convinced dangerous. Get this
Speaker 1: thing away from me. I'm gonna I'm gonna second follow
Speaker 1: up to that um because you're thinking about things that
Speaker 1: might get you in the end, Do you think about
Speaker 1: things that might get youander, like what the likely cause
Speaker 1: will be, what you'd like to be gotten by. I
Speaker 1: just go by, like I type in like what you know,
Speaker 1: like what kills American males. It's like the heart disease.
Speaker 1: So I just assume, like I picture dying from that,
Speaker 1: so you take comfort, You're just like, nopeart disease. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So like when I think of death, I picture be
Speaker 1: being very old surrounded by loving children, right, extremely old,
Speaker 1: very loving children, And I just like, that's that's just
Speaker 1: how I That's just how I imagine it going down there.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of scenarios. Every time I make a decision,
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of end up with, yeah, i'd be
Speaker 1: okay with that, and I haven't there. But there's those
Speaker 1: like you're in gridlocked traffic. I'm like not not not
Speaker 1: today is in one of those times. But the final
Speaker 1: thought on the health advisory thing, which I keep kicking around,
Speaker 1: uh is how many h how many shots of alcohol
Speaker 1: are you supposed to do in one night? Like not many?
Speaker 1: There's one that no one pays attention to remember, like
Speaker 1: there's like legit health advisories about drinking booze, right, Like
Speaker 1: no one thinks booze is good, but people just drink booze,
Speaker 1: you know, And like I used to, we used to
Speaker 1: like to light bottle rockets and have them in between
Speaker 1: your teeth, like let it go at the right moment.
Speaker 1: What's the health advised me on that? So but it's
Speaker 1: on my mind man, you know. Um, speaking of fish,
Speaker 1: someone wants to know. We get a lot of questions
Speaker 1: like this, how do you guys freeze freshwater fish? Did
Speaker 1: you grow up freezing in buckets of water? I've seen it, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we didn't, but most of our fish was
Speaker 1: you know, either if I guess freshwire like river you know, salmon,
Speaker 1: steelhead or the saltwater. But um, pretty much when Vacuum
Speaker 1: series came out, I mean that's when we really started
Speaker 1: putting up a lot of fish and and being able
Speaker 1: to keep it for a long time. But growing up, man,
Speaker 1: growing up, I remember fishing up north and put them
Speaker 1: in milk curtains and then I'm yeah, getting it in
Speaker 1: their kind where they're just kind of floating in that
Speaker 1: real pack tip together and freezing that and taking it home,
Speaker 1: and later I remember my mom would always um, I
Speaker 1: never quite understood this when she soaked them in milk
Speaker 1: and then freeze them all right, didn't didn't ever question that.
Speaker 1: But yep, still taste okay. I just did that with
Speaker 1: pick the Dungeoness crab frolls at milk. Let us sit
Speaker 1: in my freezer. Year thought at all. I thought it
Speaker 1: was as good, not as good as fresh, but good. Interesting.
Speaker 1: But we always frolls fresh water fish in like we
Speaker 1: take gallon. My old man to like take gallon milk
Speaker 1: jugs or butter tubs or peanut butter buckets, anything like that. Man,
Speaker 1: you put the fish in there, pour water on it,
Speaker 1: and freeze it. But your whole freezer gets so yes,
Speaker 1: it is full of water. Yeah, you couldn't bring it anywhere.
Speaker 1: And these days we just vacuum seal everything. That's what's
Speaker 1: that's when I switched to Then I had like a
Speaker 1: love hate with vacuum selers because I think I was
Speaker 1: using like really bad bags because you vacuum seal your
Speaker 1: bags and you dopen your freezer up and they wouldn't
Speaker 1: be sealed anymore. And then I slowly realized that it
Speaker 1: was like you can't jostle them. People that rub them.
Speaker 1: You're like, you know, you're banging around your freeze trying
Speaker 1: to find something. You're you're jostle in the bags and
Speaker 1: banging them on the wires and your freezer bang them together,
Speaker 1: and you make small abrasions. So that's why when you
Speaker 1: vaccine something, you open it later, it's no good anymore.
Speaker 1: But I've now I've vac seal all fish, act seal
Speaker 1: all ah anything, birds, a vac seal turtles frog. The
Speaker 1: only thing I like wrap is red meat double wrap.
Speaker 1: Why why do you make a difference there? Because it's
Speaker 1: just like it just feels like a sole bulletproof man
Speaker 1: and it's just fast for me to do. I just
Speaker 1: wrap it in plastic wrap and wrap it and freezer paper.
Speaker 1: I like the way it looks in my freezer, just
Speaker 1: like it looks like Fort Knox in there. You know. Well,
Speaker 1: the way we decided is that um, I do all
Speaker 1: the knife work. If my wife volunteers to help and
Speaker 1: gets the vacuum sealer out, I don't complain. I just
Speaker 1: let her do what she wants. And and if it's me,
Speaker 1: I'd probably I find a paper less troublesome but she
Speaker 1: likes the vacuum steeler, and I can't tell a difference
Speaker 1: to me. That's another thing is wrapping meat the double
Speaker 1: wrap way. You can you can eat it two years later,
Speaker 1: three years later. If you wrap that, if you get
Speaker 1: that plastic wrap tight tight tight, like all air out
Speaker 1: tight like a condom, and then you wrap that wax
Speaker 1: freezer paper, it never goes bad then. So I just
Speaker 1: pulled that chunk elk out. And we've talked about this before,
Speaker 1: but I do as little cutting as possible, big chunks,
Speaker 1: no trimming. Wrap it in paper, no plastic, no plastic,
Speaker 1: no plastic. Uh god, I'm anti plastic as much as possible.
Speaker 1: Just you don't need to. You don't feel the need
Speaker 1: to just pump more plastic out into the planet. Correct. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know it's like a freezer paper. I think technically,
Speaker 1: you know, it's got that little shiny there's only so
Speaker 1: much you can do. He's being inconvenience already. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: I'll figure it out one of these days. It's it's
Speaker 1: supposed to be used the way you're using it. I
Speaker 1: think when you when you look at the directions on
Speaker 1: the on that freezer paper, roll like right, there's a
Speaker 1: little diagram and they're like they have that weird roll
Speaker 1: that nobody I don't see every anybody ever. Do you
Speaker 1: know I'm talking about the roll Butcher's roll. No, I'm
Speaker 1: a corner to corner genuine Butcher's roll. I don't think
Speaker 1: that's how the Yeah, because there's like this weird like
Speaker 1: compressed air out of it where you roll up one
Speaker 1: end like you make a bag and roll it super tight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what that is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't use it. But like I put this elk
Speaker 1: away stinky. I was experimenting, which I often do, and
Speaker 1: and it aged and it had like I started to
Speaker 1: produce moisture again along with it a bit of a smell,
Speaker 1: and so you know, I just kind of squinted my
Speaker 1: eyes and rolled it up and got it in the freezer.
Speaker 1: And uh, I took that out last week and it
Speaker 1: was fantastic, Like it had got it still had that
Speaker 1: ripe odor. No odor was gone, trimmed off the outside
Speaker 1: like some cultures they like high. Like if you read
Speaker 1: old French cookbooks, they'll say hang it until it's high,
Speaker 1: meaning smells off. Yeah, and I've read that. I don't
Speaker 1: know that term specifically, but I've read that that kind
Speaker 1: of shiny slimy is like ultra enzyme action on the outside.
Speaker 1: And there's things in old French cookbooks to hang foul.
Speaker 1: I can't remember it by that. You remember this the
Speaker 1: neck or the foot until it falls. Tell us in
Speaker 1: the neck till the body weight pulls it off to
Speaker 1: the bod, till it decays enough of the body weight
Speaker 1: pulls it down to the ground. And as mentioned the
Speaker 1: hunter times my day, I would talk about hanging dear
Speaker 1: until it had a quarter inch of mold on it.
Speaker 1: But we just ate he ate some uh meat. We
Speaker 1: discussed this. We ate some meat that had been hanging
Speaker 1: for eighteen months, eighteen months, aged in the fridge at
Speaker 1: eight degrees yeah something. It was controlled, tastes like cheese. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But Steve, before you before you move on, can be
Speaker 1: transition back to your the urban diseases, because I thought
Speaker 1: with your background, you'd you'd tell us about your days
Speaker 1: of hunting that um pigeons up in the up in
Speaker 1: the bridges. I mean, that's about as urban as you
Speaker 1: can get. The days Yeah, yeah, yeah, eating street pigeons
Speaker 1: out of like not you know, everybody streeting, not everybody.
Speaker 1: A lot of people eat street pigeons from out in
Speaker 1: the farm country, but eating street pigeons from cities, no problem.
Speaker 1: I've eaten streets pigeons off the streets of New York.
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here right now. There's your proof. But I've
Speaker 1: had a lot of ailments. Man, I've had a lot
Speaker 1: of weird ailments in my day, but not like not
Speaker 1: related to that weird ailment. But then you think too many.
Speaker 1: I had to like return around because I thought of
Speaker 1: this to day when we were touring the Federal plant.
Speaker 1: You're some about that that they have that lead. Okay,
Speaker 1: they get you take lead from They take lead from
Speaker 1: car batteries, and they brought these like ing gets, some
Speaker 1: recycled lead, but they add like these small percentages of antimony,
Speaker 1: which is a lead hardener. When I was a little kid,
Speaker 1: we'd go down to the Twin Light Gun Club, which
Speaker 1: was a mile and a half from our house. We
Speaker 1: go down there, check to make sure no one was
Speaker 1: actively shooting, go far down to the other end without
Speaker 1: putting any kind of flag or notification out, and take
Speaker 1: a screen that our old man made us. He made
Speaker 1: us like an archaeologist screens like a box of the
Speaker 1: screen in the bottom, and we would sift the burn
Speaker 1: to get all the bullets out of it, take those
Speaker 1: home and take a torch, and we had like you
Speaker 1: know those pots you melt lead in, and we would
Speaker 1: take a torch and melt all that lead and get
Speaker 1: all the impurities off, and the lead would rise up,
Speaker 1: and we had a sinker mold to pour our own
Speaker 1: split shot. And I never and it wasn't until the
Speaker 1: day that I understood, like when you would tooth tightened
Speaker 1: that split shot, you'd always hear your tooth crunch in
Speaker 1: a way that you wouldn't hear was store bought split shot.
Speaker 1: And I realized now it's like the minute they said
Speaker 1: to them, like so that's what that was, because it
Speaker 1: always had like a disconcerting like a disconcerting like crunch noise. Man,
Speaker 1: those antimony in there, I can't see out of that.
Speaker 1: I had a slight touch of tooth. And I had
Speaker 1: to laugh at the Federal Plant today because we were
Speaker 1: walking through the shot area. Um about the time you
Speaker 1: probably had your same realization. But they had this huge,
Speaker 1: you know, uh barrel full of probably number seven shot,
Speaker 1: really fine shot and it's just it's brand new, and
Speaker 1: it's just kind of glistening there, and I think every
Speaker 1: single one of us kind of staring at it for
Speaker 1: a second, and then just like a bunch of little kids,
Speaker 1: you're just like hands in this big thing. A lad, yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't not do it. I just got to get
Speaker 1: in there. And but my my brother, he would like
Speaker 1: collect mercury out of old He'd collect mercury out of
Speaker 1: thermometers until he had like a big ball of it
Speaker 1: that he kept the thirty five millimeter film candister, and
Speaker 1: we get that mercury on this roll around. It's which
Speaker 1: I think was stupid even then. It was like, you know,
Speaker 1: thirty five years ago, still stupid, are already stupid. Um
Speaker 1: legal and ethical conundrums of bartering or trade being fishing game.
Speaker 1: It's illegal, right, it's illegal to formally it's illegal to
Speaker 1: barter fishing game. Like just way in the nineteen thirties
Speaker 1: and and earlier, we started to set up laws in
Speaker 1: this country though, to de commodify game, um to to
Speaker 1: destroy the economic incentive for market hunters to go out
Speaker 1: and kill North American game and sell it. And I
Speaker 1: was like the first most important step we had to
Speaker 1: take to recover American wildlife. Um and they came into
Speaker 1: and said, you can't barter it. But who it's kinda
Speaker 1: it's kind of funny. And I got a buddy who
Speaker 1: one time was down on a dock and he and
Speaker 1: a guy he was coming back from lincot fishing, another
Speaker 1: guy was coming back from uh fishing spots shrimp. They
Speaker 1: didn't know each other, and they struck up a conversation
Speaker 1: and struck up a deal by which they would do
Speaker 1: a swap and an undercover game. Warden right there really
Speaker 1: doing if they were doing a formal you know what
Speaker 1: formal barter, what they bartying? What was he buttering for
Speaker 1: link cod for shrimp, shrimp lin cod for sport called shrimp.
Speaker 1: Because they didn't know each other and it was a formal,
Speaker 1: they were making a formal arrangement. They were like applying
Speaker 1: sort of mentally applying value in trading. But like my
Speaker 1: brother who lives in Alaska, when he comes down, he
Speaker 1: brings me king salmon and I trade him contaminated perch fils, right,
Speaker 1: but we don't it's not. But he'll even say, like hey,
Speaker 1: man um or whatever else, say, you know, bring a
Speaker 1: cooler down when he come because he's from the Midwest
Speaker 1: and he misses perch. Do you know that they that
Speaker 1: that those guys challenge it, they go to court and
Speaker 1: challenge it. Any idea, No, because I would think it's illegal.
Speaker 1: It's but it's illegal. But it's one of those things
Speaker 1: where you talked to a sensible person and go, I
Speaker 1: don't think that's the intent of that law. That but
Speaker 1: your judgment agree with you that typically when people get
Speaker 1: busted that kind of stuff, they're doing something they're getting
Speaker 1: real value for it. You know, there's usual money at
Speaker 1: some point and they exchange you know, like he's going
Speaker 1: to do. Would be let's say, like I give my
Speaker 1: my auto mechanic some elk of a year as a
Speaker 1: thank you gift, you know, like some people might take flowers.
Speaker 1: I take him a roast. Okay, well, if he wrote
Speaker 1: you an invoice and exactly exactly if if you were
Speaker 1: if I were to say, hey, if I give you
Speaker 1: half an elk, but you fixed my transmission next week,
Speaker 1: that'd be illegal. You know, that's cut and dried. But
Speaker 1: you know, fish shrimp for fish. I would think any
Speaker 1: any reasonable person to say that's that's not right. But
Speaker 1: what if you were to say, Hey, I have this
Speaker 1: real nice lind cod play here. How about you give
Speaker 1: me ten pounds of spots, And then Rude said he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's only worth five pounds, and he goes,
Speaker 1: all right, how about we settle somewhere in seven a
Speaker 1: half pounds. I still think that, right, No, if he's like, dude,
Speaker 1: these spots shrimp tails are thirty bucks a pound, give
Speaker 1: me the whole damn link, right that you agree that
Speaker 1: there's a point at which but but I agree to
Speaker 1: in the in the spirit of the law thing, the
Speaker 1: spirit laws, the spirit of the law. I agree that
Speaker 1: my brother is saying, hey, I'm gonna bring down the
Speaker 1: king Sam Flay, and I'm like, that's great. Regardless I
Speaker 1: was gonna give you some yellow perch. No one's ever
Speaker 1: gonna I mean, yeah, like I see why that's in
Speaker 1: place and think it should be in place. But then
Speaker 1: also like on like a very basic human level, that's
Speaker 1: kind of like you do as a human being, like
Speaker 1: from the beginning of time, Right, it's hard to like toy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like you said, there's tears of it. It's like all
Speaker 1: of a sudden you're here and it's like, Okay, this
Speaker 1: seems like super meto normal like and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, escalates pretty quickly. I say, amongst friends,
Speaker 1: I've never been like, whoa, whoa, nah, give me some
Speaker 1: of that back you can only have. Oh, that's because
Speaker 1: I've never taken it to the like you never say
Speaker 1: to a guy where your body's gonna bring you, say,
Speaker 1: gonna bring you some some white tail meat, and you're
Speaker 1: gonna swap mouth some wallee. I've never seen someone take
Speaker 1: it to be like well how much? How much you
Speaker 1: bring it down? So I'm trying to figure out when
Speaker 1: I go into my freezer, how many my milk jugs
Speaker 1: full of calfish phlats. Yes, I guess I've never seen
Speaker 1: it get abusive, you know, in all the years that
Speaker 1: i've I never have kind of engaged in it, you know,
Speaker 1: honest I think, I mean, oh, you've seen it get abusive?
Speaker 1: Well no, I used to make sure laban smirk, You're like,
Speaker 1: you're like an illegal barter. I used to be go on,
Speaker 1: go on. That's when I was living in Colorado and
Speaker 1: in a ski town, you know, and I was whatever,
Speaker 1: making fifteen bucks an hour and um, I'd always have
Speaker 1: a lot of elp meat. So some of the main
Speaker 1: things that I constantly for I don't know, a half
Speaker 1: dozen years, I would barter forward the ski tunes ski
Speaker 1: passes because I had seasons you were buying ski passes
Speaker 1: with elk meat. Well, so anybody that works for the
Speaker 1: mountain gets like, well, you used to be this. It's
Speaker 1: not that way anymore. But back in the day used
Speaker 1: to get to say, I don't know, ten or twenty
Speaker 1: three ski passes, which if you're skiing at Vail or
Speaker 1: be Creek, those were like eighty or a hundred dollars
Speaker 1: value of peace. So if I had friends coming into town,
Speaker 1: I didn't have any of those if I wasn't working
Speaker 1: for them out and how you're gonna get them to ski,
Speaker 1: you know, like get them up on the mountain. So yeah,
Speaker 1: so I was very much calculating exactly how much that
Speaker 1: I around was worth because you're you know, you're writing
Speaker 1: it out on little re seats, you know. Um. And
Speaker 1: then I got a few oil changes too, so I
Speaker 1: don't remember time. It's are you now like repentant or
Speaker 1: are you like or? And I would do the same
Speaker 1: thing again. I wouldn't do it again. I mean, now
Speaker 1: I know better fact, and I didn't know. I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think any less of you hearing this. They
Speaker 1: probably I'm guessing that they're private a good hunter man
Speaker 1: like playing me for myself and plenty to barter with.
Speaker 1: You know, did you know at the time, did you
Speaker 1: know that it was that you were you were potentially
Speaker 1: crossing a while no idea. And I think too if
Speaker 1: you were like coming back from them, if you're going
Speaker 1: to the back door of a butcher's shop and meeting
Speaker 1: something in the back lot saying here, now give me
Speaker 1: your ski passes, that gets to be I think a
Speaker 1: little more questionable just because you know you're on site
Speaker 1: where you know that's their business and cutting up meat.
Speaker 1: Is this something about the um it's a term for
Speaker 1: that where you're in the context the context of it
Speaker 1: where I think when you go back to your apartment
Speaker 1: and it's now buddy the buddy, it's I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's hard to have to get you judge bent from
Speaker 1: for me on that. So especially college kids, you know,
Speaker 1: I can see that you get a citation right, and
Speaker 1: then you're like digging in your freeze. You're like, how
Speaker 1: much does that ticket? Again, you just happen to have
Speaker 1: a couple of tender loins, um, I guess to your point,
Speaker 1: we were having a dinner over at my house the
Speaker 1: other night and uh, you know, get you have buffalo
Speaker 1: skull up there and stuff and which came off a
Speaker 1: private land and I was explaining how, yeah, you know
Speaker 1: the rule is and and uh and we're talking away
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, one one. I have this
Speaker 1: regret where I was guiding in New Mexico and uh,
Speaker 1: I had found this rock that was, you know, the
Speaker 1: size of like a big medicine ball, and it's probably
Speaker 1: a seventy pound rock, but it had uh three uh
Speaker 1: fossilized centipedes in it. It was just incredibly cool. And uh,
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I'm gonna come back and grab that.
Speaker 1: And I had told these folks that I was cooking,
Speaker 1: uh cooking with that. I regretted not grabbing that and said, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you just told us that was illegal, and so
Speaker 1: well yeah, but then I didn't know, so it would
Speaker 1: have been fine. Now I can't go back down there
Speaker 1: and pick it up. Yeah, Like I wish I was
Speaker 1: the I wish I was the me that didn't know,
Speaker 1: but see that rock would be sitting next year woodpile
Speaker 1: and you'd look at it every day. Angle, man, I
Speaker 1: gotta get that rock back to where it rightfully belongs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you'd get caught by dude and you'd have to explain
Speaker 1: that you're actually returning. I know it sounds weird, but hey, Sonny,
Speaker 1: be like, well, I'm actually bringing this rock back to
Speaker 1: your property under the cover of darkness. Should a should
Speaker 1: a single species hunter be taken seriously? It's a good question.
Speaker 1: It's not an apparent question. I never thought of it myself,
Speaker 1: But is there really such a thing. There's definitely that
Speaker 1: kind of a single species hunter, single species nobody. It's
Speaker 1: not a real way. Okay, we're a single species a
Speaker 1: hunter or a single species fisherman, say yo, but we
Speaker 1: fished with the guy last night who is very definitely
Speaker 1: a single species fisherman. Okay. Someone wrote in to be
Speaker 1: like I just can't take them seriously, like something must
Speaker 1: be wrong with him. I just think it's kind of cute.
Speaker 1: It's like the dude loves muskies. He's never eaten one.
Speaker 1: He just likes to catch him, and he'll try. He'll
Speaker 1: catch him anywhere they can be found. It's like, I
Speaker 1: don't I like him better than someone that doesn't fish
Speaker 1: at all? No, certainly. So it's like, and that's that's
Speaker 1: the guy that you talk like, you know, I would
Speaker 1: consider like when it comes to like hunting or fishing,
Speaker 1: like like you say, a big in generalist, right, like
Speaker 1: do a lot of different things. But by that I
Speaker 1: should probably wear that t shirt that says like, world's
Speaker 1: okayst hunter, because like, I'm okay at a lot of things.
Speaker 1: But I mean those dudes that specialize like that, man,
Speaker 1: they're great at it, you know. I mean those are
Speaker 1: the guys that you look to from not like when
Speaker 1: you're really trying to sort something out, you know, those
Speaker 1: are the guys you want to talk to. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: trying to figure out wait till they don't call a
Speaker 1: guys like now and nin hunts a white tail. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I get it. I get what he's saying by
Speaker 1: thinking that it's goofy, but I disagree with them. I
Speaker 1: fished with a dude who's a really good guy in uh,
Speaker 1: South Dakota, and we were fishing for walleyes, and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and I am not a walleye. Fisherman at all.
Speaker 1: On Uh, you know, there's some subtlety to it that
Speaker 1: I wasn't really picking up on the fact that they
Speaker 1: they they sort of think about biting rather than biting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then you like gingerly pull them up. And he
Speaker 1: just ridiculed me every time I had would either bring
Speaker 1: in a fish that wasn't within the slot limit, or
Speaker 1: I would mention the fact that I liked to fish
Speaker 1: for anything else, and he would go as far as
Speaker 1: to say, that is not a fish, pike, Oh, that's
Speaker 1: not a fish. And I find it very hard to
Speaker 1: believe that there's in this area of the country that
Speaker 1: there's nobody that answered you from the fishing perspective, because
Speaker 1: he made it seem that he was not alone in
Speaker 1: his specificity. For Wally, I'd be I wish we could
Speaker 1: do it somehow where you could say how close to
Speaker 1: that single species are you? Are you like a deer
Speaker 1: hunter and ten percent duck hunter, that kind of things.
Speaker 1: I'd a lot of people in that category, myself included
Speaker 1: where I probably hunt deer when if I were to
Speaker 1: break on my hunting down and put a percentage basis on,
Speaker 1: I think that's probably deer and ten percent elk and
Speaker 1: earlier in life is pricing a five percent deer and
Speaker 1: percent goose or then then that's not counting spring turkey.
Speaker 1: I was thinking about when you have to make decisions
Speaker 1: in the fall, and I saw a survey one time.
Speaker 1: It was actually real scientific survey where they asked deer
Speaker 1: hunters if is there anything else out there that could
Speaker 1: replaced deer hunting if you could no longer do it?
Speaker 1: And it was like about overall, about forty nine percent
Speaker 1: of those deer hunting, About half the deer hunters said
Speaker 1: there's nothing else in my life that could replace deer hunting,
Speaker 1: like for that extent. And then they asked goose hunters
Speaker 1: if you could if is there something else out there
Speaker 1: that could replace goose hunting if you were cut off
Speaker 1: from it forever, And then thene of it dropped down
Speaker 1: to like, I think ten percent or something. They also
Speaker 1: is not a dedicated you know, there's something about I
Speaker 1: would go back to my expression, dear dear make people stupid.
Speaker 1: It's just something that it makes up so much a
Speaker 1: part of you that you just cut off all reason
Speaker 1: and just go with it. I might start a T
Speaker 1: shirt that says, dear make people stupid. Uh. Pat made
Speaker 1: me aware of another good quote their day. It was
Speaker 1: about leadership where he said every ship needs a captain
Speaker 1: and there's no such thing as a co captain, which
Speaker 1: is good. Um, you guys cool on that subject. Okay,
Speaker 1: there's a guy that wants to he's having a kid
Speaker 1: and he wants to know what to name it to
Speaker 1: make extra sure that it's a hunter. And I'll tell
Speaker 1: you what it's not. Hunter. I think a lot of
Speaker 1: people are just thinking it's as easy as calling them
Speaker 1: hunter and that's gonna get it taken care of. But
Speaker 1: I've been a boatload of hunters that don't hunt the
Speaker 1: name hunter, and I see people go the Mountain Man route.
Speaker 1: Dude likes the hunt a lot, and he's got a
Speaker 1: kid Jedediah or he's got a kid Boom. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that works or not. I name my kid,
Speaker 1: my newest kid. I named him after my brother Matt,
Speaker 1: who likes the hunt more than anybody on the planet. Um,
Speaker 1: no one knows that that that's my game. If you
Speaker 1: hear Matt, you think the dude from the New Testament, right,
Speaker 1: So I don't I don't have a good answer for him.
Speaker 1: All I can say is that when when when we
Speaker 1: were having kids, we picked out the boy's boy's name
Speaker 1: and girl's name, and I, for one kid, I picked
Speaker 1: up the name Bridger. If it's gonna be a son,
Speaker 1: because you wanted the person to be the kid to be.
Speaker 1: Always had this idea that you bring up your kids
Speaker 1: and the culture and teaching them about the Mountain men,
Speaker 1: that the famous Hunters real people, not fictional care to
Speaker 1: real people. Then, um, just saying, although I had three daughters,
Speaker 1: so anyway to use the boy's name, did you? But
Speaker 1: did you name any of them after the goddess of
Speaker 1: the hunt? Nope, nope, I M smart, but we didn't
Speaker 1: name um Diana, the goddess of the hunt. We did
Speaker 1: name my my third kid Carson. And if it had
Speaker 1: been a boy, if it'd been spelled c A R
Speaker 1: s o N, but she was a girl swinging spelled
Speaker 1: a k A R s y n, and presumably kick Carson,
Speaker 1: kick Carson. And just because I like history, I like
Speaker 1: all the all that kind of stuff. But um, you
Speaker 1: don't know though names are important. I really I'm big
Speaker 1: on names, and I evaluate people by what name their kids.
Speaker 1: But yeah, man, I don't take your kid's names. Well,
Speaker 1: the touch basically, it takes a little while for you
Speaker 1: need to figure it out. You can't be like all
Speaker 1: the people. Okay, go ahead. No, you don't want to
Speaker 1: put them on the spot. No, put him on the spot.
Speaker 1: I mean because what if he has to judge people
Speaker 1: out here in the audience. Oh, because they might have
Speaker 1: the same name and my daughter jump me afterward? Yeah,
Speaker 1: beat pass ass or some name is alright? Sorry, bad idea?
Speaker 1: Go ahead, I don't care on this doesn't matter. I'm
Speaker 1: not doing it. Pat, blood will be on my hand.
Speaker 1: Let's give it. I will tell you you may want
Speaker 1: to avoid naming your kid Cal. I've had a couple
Speaker 1: of friends go down that route and turns out there
Speaker 1: a little too much outlaw on that name. Is that right?
Speaker 1: Spins them off in a wild direction, on themselves on
Speaker 1: the wrong saddle off you too many times? Maybe already
Speaker 1: h question for you, though, Pat, You've got three daughters.
Speaker 1: One likes to hunt more than the other ones. Right,
Speaker 1: definitely was it Carson? No, it is Leah, Leah, my
Speaker 1: very first daughter. Um, this is this is one thing
Speaker 1: if you ever want to get insights into how kids
Speaker 1: think and who will be the hunter I took. I
Speaker 1: took all three of my daughters. I started them hunting
Speaker 1: at about age three. Take them along. I used to
Speaker 1: have a well we still have their wagon, their little
Speaker 1: red wagon. I was called the a t V. I'd
Speaker 1: put them in the red wagon and pull them out
Speaker 1: goose hunting. And Leah not kidney. By age three, she
Speaker 1: she understood the goose music when she get her geese coming,
Speaker 1: and her little head to just turn and start tracking.
Speaker 1: And I watched because she had really good hearing, and
Speaker 1: I watched her um. And then when the when the
Speaker 1: geese started to come in, and you know how they
Speaker 1: come in to setting their wings and tilting back and forth,
Speaker 1: she just watched like a like a like a retriever,
Speaker 1: watched those beasts until I shot. And then I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be happy if and if I missed, you know, she's
Speaker 1: just gonna stare at me. But then what what But
Speaker 1: it was really what was really instructive, you guys, is
Speaker 1: um as still as the other girls came along. Then
Speaker 1: behind her, I take all three of mouth goose hunting,
Speaker 1: and oh, garden is a coming in and all those
Speaker 1: all that honking, all that noise, and they're you know
Speaker 1: they're gonna set and setting your decoys. You finally come
Speaker 1: up and you raise a gun and I look over
Speaker 1: and Lee is watching the geese. There two are like this.
Speaker 1: They got their heads heads down and ears covered up.
Speaker 1: And all I could think was before I shot, they
Speaker 1: aren't going to be hunters, you know, And they weren't. No, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: That that that's the That's the fun thing about parenting.
Speaker 1: You really learn each one of those charms. I love it.
Speaker 1: I it's fun now as a as a grandparent to see, Um,
Speaker 1: what's it's sad to them because as a girls started
Speaker 1: having kids, you can't spend the kind of time hunting
Speaker 1: and fishing them as you did. Because like as time
Speaker 1: went on, Um Leah and Leah always hunted and fished
Speaker 1: Ellie where they would not want to get out of
Speaker 1: bed to go fishing. But once she's on the lake
Speaker 1: after breakfast, she fished. All data is fine, our youngest one.
Speaker 1: We're sitting the back of the boat, read cut up
Speaker 1: the worms. She'd do anything besides fish. And then now
Speaker 1: as an adult though, she just finished her master's degree,
Speaker 1: and I found it very interesting. Her master's degree in
Speaker 1: English was all based around the outdoors and getting back
Speaker 1: into the outdoors as an adult. And so now I think,
Speaker 1: as she's not having kids and go fishing with me,
Speaker 1: I find that really cool. You can she's the one
Speaker 1: named Carson, where I think, yeah, yeah, thank you. It
Speaker 1: takes great the name Carson takes gradual effect. Um. The
Speaker 1: thing I've been thinking about with kids lately, like kind
Speaker 1: of like with with the way exposing them to the
Speaker 1: outdoors as helping as I've been having this debate now
Speaker 1: that my wife about like teaching them use a hatchet
Speaker 1: right to cut kindling. If you come out the yard
Speaker 1: and there's a five year old with a hatchet, one
Speaker 1: might question what's going on here. So but a way
Speaker 1: that I want up selling it my wife and I've
Speaker 1: used as a couple of times now as I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to introduce them too, sort of in arena
Speaker 1: of consequence, and I find that that these sorts of
Speaker 1: activities are a way to bring people in. We're to
Speaker 1: bring people in a fun way, but we're decisions matter
Speaker 1: right where there's right ways and wrong ways to do things,
Speaker 1: and there's difficult questions to wrestle with, like why do
Speaker 1: we eat dear? But not unicorns, right, And it winds
Speaker 1: up being that it's like, it's just this thing of you.
Speaker 1: You're introducing this world where, yes, you can, this is
Speaker 1: a world in which one can be gravely injured if
Speaker 1: one doesn't learn how to master certain skills, where you
Speaker 1: will come up empty handed if things aren't done this way,
Speaker 1: where there's this morality at play in life and death
Speaker 1: is struggling out, it just winds up being really helpful.
Speaker 1: I think that it could be that you could raise
Speaker 1: you can. You can start off like trying to raise
Speaker 1: outdoor kids with outdoor sensibility and have them go off
Speaker 1: and not be interested at all, And you'd be tempted
Speaker 1: to look and be like, oh, I wasted my time.
Speaker 1: But perhaps not, because when you color with your kid
Speaker 1: and your kid doesn't wind up being a professional colorer,
Speaker 1: you're not bummed that you like, you're not bummed that
Speaker 1: you colored with them all the time, waste all the
Speaker 1: time color and sunshines, you know, it's like no one
Speaker 1: ever looks at that that way, so I do. But
Speaker 1: but yeah, I feel like I'm like setting them up
Speaker 1: to be cool people to hang out with, when maybe
Speaker 1: it's just there's value in nothing else, if nothing else,
Speaker 1: they will grow up into adults. And my kids all
Speaker 1: still like getting elk from me, dear from me, fish
Speaker 1: from me. They want they want that to be brought
Speaker 1: into the house and then they share it with us.
Speaker 1: I mean we share it with them, and to me
Speaker 1: that that's what's important to get them into that culture,
Speaker 1: but at least understand it. And when they can interact
Speaker 1: with their coal workers and they get talking about these things,
Speaker 1: there's someone in the office who can talk real intelligently
Speaker 1: about the hunting lifestyle. And they grew up in a
Speaker 1: house where that's where we ate the most part, and
Speaker 1: so I think that has great value. And because my
Speaker 1: kids didn't grow up out of the house and then go,
Speaker 1: oh dumb with that dumb son of a bitch, he's
Speaker 1: out of here. You know, they grew up in the
Speaker 1: they embraced the way they grew up, you know. So
Speaker 1: I think that's just great. Anything you can do with
Speaker 1: your kids that get small indoors eating the fish, learning
Speaker 1: how to prepare itish well. You know, like we were
Speaker 1: talking earlier today about the things that kids see, you
Speaker 1: know that could you know, make the hair snap the
Speaker 1: back of your neck, and they handle it this fine.
Speaker 1: I think so often we baby kids and make make
Speaker 1: they think you were telling each other that, oh, you
Speaker 1: can expose into that. And people worry about seeing a
Speaker 1: dead dur in the back of a car, and I think, well,
Speaker 1: there's somebody just went by with a full load of hogs.
Speaker 1: Where do you think they're going. You're talking to your
Speaker 1: kids about those kind of things, and make them understand that, yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot there is dead, but tomorrow all those hogs
Speaker 1: they won't be here anymore either, and make them I
Speaker 1: think those are opportunities for people to talk to kids
Speaker 1: and explain things to them. That's my thought. Marfa. You uh, Mart,
Speaker 1: do you feel like you guys are throwing some outdoors
Speaker 1: some outdoors women or no? Yeah, I think so. I mean,
Speaker 1: we didn't put any thought into their names, but I
Speaker 1: do put some thought. I mean put the thought in
Speaker 1: their names, but not in that regard. You know. I figured,
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully we'll introd do them to the outdoors
Speaker 1: and yeah, expose them, expose them those things. Actually, one
Speaker 1: of my daughters, Mara, which is kind of a unique name,
Speaker 1: is has the same name as your sister, which is
Speaker 1: kind of cool. But but yeah, I mean you talk
Speaker 1: about an arena of consequence um our oldest Yuh, it's
Speaker 1: pretty much a darribed devil. So she pretty much puts
Speaker 1: herself in arena of consequence constantly. Yeah. But and that's
Speaker 1: one thing that I had to learn, was like I
Speaker 1: just kind of let her do it. Now. It's like
Speaker 1: you want to climb to the top, all right sorted out?
Speaker 1: You know, if you fall down, you fall down, you know.
Speaker 1: And like what Pat said, I mean, I think we
Speaker 1: don't give kids credit for what they're capable of doing
Speaker 1: or oftentimes understanding or comprehending or you know you And
Speaker 1: I've thought about this myself as far as like exposing
Speaker 1: them to the hunting or death and are they ready
Speaker 1: for it? And we're even chatting but a little bit
Speaker 1: about that earlier and then. And the fact of the
Speaker 1: matter is those those are normal things. I mean, that
Speaker 1: is that is that is happens all day every day.
Speaker 1: And I think the sooner you realize that and accept it,
Speaker 1: you know, the better if you're gonna be so. But yeah,
Speaker 1: but anyway to answer, I'll go further than that to
Speaker 1: answer your questions. So we have been doing some uh
Speaker 1: some nature walks, so uh, the girls like to find
Speaker 1: find the deer walks. They like to look for rubs.
Speaker 1: Been picking some mulberries, been catching a lot of blue
Speaker 1: gills lately. The kids absolutely lose their mind when they
Speaker 1: have a fish on there. I think it's just it's
Speaker 1: it's one of the most amazing things to watch. It's
Speaker 1: like watching electricity shoot through their body. And I love
Speaker 1: its speaking electricity. You guys can answer this. My kids
Speaker 1: when they're small, most fascinated them and go scouting. Was
Speaker 1: was dear dear turds, bear bear coop Anthony came out
Speaker 1: of an animal. They had to go and check it
Speaker 1: out and ask questions about we're walking through the woods. Uh.
Speaker 1: I was out and we were looking for squirrels with
Speaker 1: their uncle Matt, and I turned around and my daughter
Speaker 1: was four, she was three or four, and she had
Speaker 1: a mouthful of deer droppings because we had apparently picked
Speaker 1: them up and talked about it, and she got the
Speaker 1: wrong like picked out the wrong detail about what we
Speaker 1: were saying about it. And she's like, and I realized
Speaker 1: that she hadn't shoot up a deer dropping but yeah,
Speaker 1: one of my favorite But you know what it's like,
Speaker 1: this whole reflection of yourself thing right, and and so
Speaker 1: I think that you could get The risk would be
Speaker 1: that you get overly invested in the idea that you're
Speaker 1: gonna make them, that they're gonna be a version like
Speaker 1: this version of yourself that you wish was the one
Speaker 1: that was true somehow. Like I have a picture of
Speaker 1: my little boy when he was so my eight year old,
Speaker 1: when he was five. It's like a picture of him
Speaker 1: nothing on but his underwear, cocked back with a sling
Speaker 1: shot and there's a black bear standing right in front
Speaker 1: of him up at our fish sh act And like
Speaker 1: I like that picture, probably because you're you're doing some
Speaker 1: game where you're like, you know, you're sort of saying
Speaker 1: like this it's this representative it's this literal representation of
Speaker 1: you where it's like half of your you know, genetic input.
Speaker 1: But you wind up like trying to isolate these moments
Speaker 1: and find these moments where this thing that you wish
Speaker 1: was true about you. And I think it could set
Speaker 1: kids up for failure in a way in your mind
Speaker 1: if you have these huge expectations, like people will ask me, like,
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do if your kids don't like
Speaker 1: to hunt like you do? Probably like him, probably won't
Speaker 1: hang out that much on the subject of families. Dude
Speaker 1: from Michigan, he's an engineer by training, and he's going
Speaker 1: out to Idaho. All people should go hunt Idaho, right
Speaker 1: count he's going out. He's going out to Idaho, and
Speaker 1: he's wanting to know what can I tell my wife?
Speaker 1: And he's going out by himself. So he's doing a
Speaker 1: solo wilderness hunt. What can I tell my wife that
Speaker 1: will make her stop worrying? You can rest assured he's
Speaker 1: got the smallest details worked out. Yeah, the little bit,
Speaker 1: the little engineering bits worked out. I think the thing
Speaker 1: he could tell her is he could say I've arrived,
Speaker 1: because it's more dangerous to drive to your hunting location
Speaker 1: than it is the hunt I've done. I've done solo
Speaker 1: hunts like that, and I I think just makes sense. Anywhere.
Speaker 1: I carry one of those personal located beacons that you
Speaker 1: know you can Basically you have flip one switch hut
Speaker 1: and it sends a beam up to the satellite and
Speaker 1: next thing you know, but they always tell you that
Speaker 1: when you hit that switch, you better be in trouble
Speaker 1: because they are sending help. And it also you can
Speaker 1: also do pre program texts every day say everything you
Speaker 1: just said it, So it just does that no matter what. Yeah,
Speaker 1: three years later, she's still getting Yeah, some bits still okay.
Speaker 1: But you know, in these days too, it's often the case,
Speaker 1: even where I hunt out west, um, where you get
Speaker 1: up on the mountaintop once a day or whatever might be.
Speaker 1: I'm not on the phone in everyday people as I
Speaker 1: have to be though. I just my wife and I
Speaker 1: just don't need that constant reassurance. But I think it
Speaker 1: is good to have cell phone communication if you can,
Speaker 1: if you can arrange it to where she knows you're
Speaker 1: there every day. But I'm like you, I always think
Speaker 1: the odds of getting hurt on that one week or
Speaker 1: two weeks out there out west, compared to the daily
Speaker 1: risk of routine risk you run by driving to work,
Speaker 1: all those kind of things falling down the back stairs,
Speaker 1: all the crazy things that happen to people in life.
Speaker 1: One are the odds that the bad things that happened
Speaker 1: to you during that one time out there. Now I
Speaker 1: could see I'd be a lot more worried if if
Speaker 1: this is the guy who is going out off the
Speaker 1: coast of Alaska in a boat every day for two
Speaker 1: weeks to himself. But on land, yeah, I I feel
Speaker 1: like you should do some safeguards over she'll never stop
Speaker 1: worrying completely, and she'll never stop worrying until you're back home.
Speaker 1: But I I found like last year, I had a
Speaker 1: guy bell on me. I was hunting up in Arizona.
Speaker 1: Right before I was leaving from my hunt, my buddy
Speaker 1: billed on me. So I was gonna be going out
Speaker 1: there by myself. But luckily Randy Newberg happened to be
Speaker 1: hunting the same area. So I email Randy and said, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be hunting this you know nine I hear
Speaker 1: you know. I knew you're gonna be there too. Could
Speaker 1: just be my emergency backup in case Penny has to
Speaker 1: reach me and you can't reach me. I'll tell you
Speaker 1: where I'm parked, you know, give him a GPS. You know,
Speaker 1: I worked out fine. There's always things you can do
Speaker 1: to at least to maintain a link somehow, And that
Speaker 1: the link, though, is important, just that satisfaction or knowledge
Speaker 1: that they know where you are, that you're okay. I
Speaker 1: think that that where I'm gonna be, where I'm parking
Speaker 1: my vehicle, and I think another thing that's helpful is
Speaker 1: if I'm not back by this day, something's definitely not right.
Speaker 1: It's helpful for people. And then the beacons. I bought
Speaker 1: one of those beacons for an Alaska hunt. But now
Speaker 1: like I packed when I go tree stand hunting by myself,
Speaker 1: like until I keep that in my pack every time too,
Speaker 1: because I'm like getting though out of the stand you
Speaker 1: might not have self reception. Well yeah, fall stand, you
Speaker 1: got an arrow through your gut, hopefully not like you're sleeved.
Speaker 1: That's not a problem anymore. I'm clear. I want to
Speaker 1: hit one more, two more, say the same. Dude is
Speaker 1: always wondering, Um, when is it? When should you bring
Speaker 1: a spotting scope? When you factor in or weight issue?
Speaker 1: First off, you need seven spotting scopes maybe eight? Um.
Speaker 1: I think it just depends. It depends on the right mark.
Speaker 1: I mean, well actually, I mean, yeah, fifteens or twelves.
Speaker 1: It depends on the hunt though, like open landscape hunt,
Speaker 1: or if you are going to be doing a lot
Speaker 1: of vehicle scouting. I mean then you're not really packing anyway.
Speaker 1: But you know, if you're talking about packing it, I
Speaker 1: think it depends on the hunt. It depends on you know,
Speaker 1: how you know what a what a person is looking
Speaker 1: to find. You know, if you're just looking to find
Speaker 1: a deer or locate something, then you know, maybe your
Speaker 1: vinal will get you through. But if you're you know,
Speaker 1: trying to be a little bit more discerning, or you're
Speaker 1: on a sheep hunt where you know, maybe you are
Speaker 1: really really trying to pick apart. Is this a full
Speaker 1: coral ram? You know, I think I'd let the hunt
Speaker 1: dictate it. But they're definitely handy, you know, and I wouldn't.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't rule him out for the Midwest either, because
Speaker 1: you can do a lot of really good long distance
Speaker 1: scouting around here without being intrusive on you know, an
Speaker 1: area that you want to hunt. Yeah. Yeah. Are you
Speaker 1: so honest? Have you ever you when you get a
Speaker 1: call at Bortex? Are you so honest that you've ever
Speaker 1: said talk someone out of buying a product? Like means
Speaker 1: you're honest? No? Yeah, I would. I definitely had point
Speaker 1: a person that I mean, you need to set a
Speaker 1: binos and absolutely, yeah. I mean that's just like I'll
Speaker 1: never I'll never say that you don't need to set
Speaker 1: a binos. But you know, if your rifle hunting, you know,
Speaker 1: seeing it a rifle scope too, But I mean I
Speaker 1: think this was binoculars. I mean I just bring binoculars
Speaker 1: around with me all the time, you know, when I
Speaker 1: will I do anything outside, Like I get if I
Speaker 1: forget my binoculars, which happens occasionally or actually oftentimes I
Speaker 1: drive to work and sometimes I don't have in my
Speaker 1: truck and I see you on the way to work.
Speaker 1: Then I get, I get super annoyed because I'm like
Speaker 1: my first my first instincts like, yeah, you know, I
Speaker 1: did it to myself. I want to get like on
Speaker 1: the spotting scope thing. Um you know there, what's like
Speaker 1: what's the razor sixty five way? Do people know what
Speaker 1: we're talking about? Approximately about three pounds? So when you
Speaker 1: when you got like when you got people and I
Speaker 1: used to do this where you're actually cutting your toothbrush
Speaker 1: handle in half in the interest of reducing pack weight.
Speaker 1: Three pounds is a big deal. But if it's if
Speaker 1: it's any kind of hunting where there's any sort of
Speaker 1: legal antler restriction, so will be like identifying growth rings
Speaker 1: on a sheet because he's got to have a minimum age,
Speaker 1: or whether or not it describes the sixty degree circle
Speaker 1: that for sure, Like with moose, it needs to have
Speaker 1: if it you're in a unit that where the thing
Speaker 1: has to have four brow times that level of detail,
Speaker 1: or it's that you have a personal goal of like
Speaker 1: identifying a X, like a big, huge, giant one. Um.
Speaker 1: I find that it's helpful, but also I just like
Speaker 1: to have I like to look at stuff, so I'll
Speaker 1: cut the handle off a toothbrush safe, but then also
Speaker 1: just stick the three pound tripod or the three pound
Speaker 1: spotting scope and then a tripod because I just like
Speaker 1: to look around. Like when I factor in, like the
Speaker 1: comfort of having a light pack juxtapoles with the comfort
Speaker 1: of you know, look really carefully at things in the
Speaker 1: natural world that are far away, I'm just gonna lean
Speaker 1: in that direction well totally, and then you gotta look
Speaker 1: at what it's what it could be saving you too,
Speaker 1: right Like it's like, okay, I've tott it this three
Speaker 1: pounds or you know, give or take up the mountain,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it took some space in my pack, but
Speaker 1: it could also be saving you several miles of walking
Speaker 1: per day. So you know, you're kind of like weighing
Speaker 1: those two things. And I mean, my opinions huge asset.
Speaker 1: So this feller, the idahole feller, should um uh tell
Speaker 1: his wife the do or die day. He's gonna be
Speaker 1: back and probably bring a spot scope. That's it. One
Speaker 1: last one. I think we got time for one last one.
Speaker 1: Um guy rode in. He's out turkey hunting, and lo
Speaker 1: and behold he's turkey hunting another guy and he's a
Speaker 1: new hunter, and our guy's a season hunter, and lo
Speaker 1: and behold they're calling in and here comes two times
Speaker 1: coming at him and his hunting partners like, we're gonna
Speaker 1: do the old one too. Three okay, I'll count, and
Speaker 1: he says that things are coming. They get close and
Speaker 1: he goes one, two and and then the other bird
Speaker 1: flies away. And later the guy is like, what's up?
Speaker 1: He says, well, everyone knows you don't say three, you
Speaker 1: shoot on him three, but I feel that you shoot
Speaker 1: down three just after three, right, you'd be like, that's
Speaker 1: what I'm saying without playing it out. How do you
Speaker 1: make it work? I remember, like I remember some of
Speaker 1: my my late friend Eric Kern, and we're laying down
Speaker 1: calling us. Some turkeys kind of bosted us, but Kains didn't,
Speaker 1: and we're calling and he wants to do the old
Speaker 1: one to three, like the old double up, which usually
Speaker 1: means no one gets anything. And so we're lined up
Speaker 1: and I'm waiting for him to do the count, and
Speaker 1: pretty soon we got hands past us, you know, and
Speaker 1: he never does the count, and we realized we never
Speaker 1: clarified the rule even who was it just haven't fast.
Speaker 1: We missed a chance. But I feel like you'd say, um, one, two,
Speaker 1: three on what would have been the four? Does that
Speaker 1: make any sense? I would? I think I would agree
Speaker 1: with I think that is what I would anticipate eight
Speaker 1: in the heat of battle of trying to coordinate. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that this dude he was hunting with intentionally
Speaker 1: screwed There's no doubt in my mind that that dude
Speaker 1: intentionally screwed him over. He got the counting, and then
Speaker 1: he's like, you know, what if he goes what if
Speaker 1: he his read on this is he's gonna blouch before
Speaker 1: I blouch. And he made a judgment called the last
Speaker 1: second just to shoot game hog and then later tried
Speaker 1: to cover his tracks. It had better long I've only
Speaker 1: done it in a couple of times, but it seems
Speaker 1: it worked where we just both said yes, we have
Speaker 1: the animal in our site you shoot for, so you
Speaker 1: sort of can let the animal you're about it. Whoever's
Speaker 1: gonna shoot second, can let the animal react to that shot,
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. And you're not gonna be startled
Speaker 1: by the shot of your body and then take a shot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because the most animals, I don't think in that like
Speaker 1: split second that's gonna take for you to you know,
Speaker 1: reacquire the target by slightly moving your gun. It's not
Speaker 1: like they're just gone. I also feel like it's difficult
Speaker 1: to get a good trigger squeeze when you're trying to
Speaker 1: like you know that that's that's the solution. We've hit
Speaker 1: on it, like a version. What you're saying is like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: just do your thing. I'm ready if it works out afterward,
Speaker 1: it works out afterwards. But hunting elk with Remy recently
Speaker 1: where he was really eager to try to do the
Speaker 1: old three and I was like, let's just you just
Speaker 1: get your situation squared away here and we'll see if
Speaker 1: I can pick up some sloppy seconds right which didn't
Speaker 1: work out. But have we tried to do the one too,
Speaker 1: threes wouldn't happen. Communication is is the the main takeaway
Speaker 1: here right right? This buddy mine read Dixon, and I
Speaker 1: just bumped into and Denver earlier in the week. He uh,
Speaker 1: we were out for his very first turkey hunt. It
Speaker 1: was actually on his ranch in Oregon. And I still
Speaker 1: take a little bit heat for this, But the communication
Speaker 1: was very clear for the first half of things, not
Speaker 1: so clear for the second half of things. They were
Speaker 1: calling birds and these two Jake's are coming in and
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, you take the one on the left,
Speaker 1: I'll take the one on the right. I'm gonna shoot
Speaker 1: as soon as you shoot, So no one to three right,
Speaker 1: and so it's gonna be like bus bout yes, when
Speaker 1: in fact it was bud bunch bouch. Point of contention
Speaker 1: comes in on that third one, whereas these birds were
Speaker 1: so close and I was so positive that he obviously
Speaker 1: hit the first bird and rolled it, but now it
Speaker 1: was up on its feet running away that I was
Speaker 1: just doing the good guy thing and taking it care,
Speaker 1: taking care of it before it runs off. Now, years later,
Speaker 1: there's some question as to whether or not he shot
Speaker 1: the burden for a shell. He's like, you remember my turkey, right,
Speaker 1: cal He's like, yeah, you remember when you felt my
Speaker 1: turkey tag for me? Uh? Anyone last final thoughts. I
Speaker 1: think when you try to coordinate a shot based on counting,
Speaker 1: So this isn't your concluder. Oh no, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: not waste have a completing thought though. Yeah you can
Speaker 1: final thought. You can final thought and then concluding could
Speaker 1: rip a concluder on the one to three. We'll jump
Speaker 1: over to Yanni for a concluder and then we'll come
Speaker 1: back to your regular concluder. Okay, yeah, my father my
Speaker 1: first concluder. Then um to do the timed thing where
Speaker 1: you go one to three. It has to be something
Speaker 1: you practice. You read about these idea that the sniper teams,
Speaker 1: if you if you read that the account of these
Speaker 1: um pirates that were shot off the back end of
Speaker 1: when these a navy, they did one three, yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's something they practice. And I think it's a silent
Speaker 1: thing though they going then pop, So it's it's all
Speaker 1: it's it's something that eliminate the count. You go one, yeah,
Speaker 1: once the stook the count. I think I can't say
Speaker 1: that's exactly how it goes, but there is something where
Speaker 1: it's sync with these guys work together so much or
Speaker 1: when they get down to doing it, most people are
Speaker 1: done and it's not something that was invented on that.
Speaker 1: In that case, it was you know, this is sniper
Speaker 1: work that's been going on for five decades and you
Speaker 1: know longer. Anyway, that was my other thought. That's a
Speaker 1: good one, really good. So many things talk about like
Speaker 1: like big high level concluders or you mean about the
Speaker 1: one too three and no not I'm over that. Um
Speaker 1: it's not really high level either. But I was gonna
Speaker 1: bring up we were gonna talk about possibly what we've
Speaker 1: been eating lately while a game abo use that from
Speaker 1: my concluder, like what you're hot on right now? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I canned a whole bunch of elk in
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, and we really haven't been
Speaker 1: eaten that much. And then your car broke down. That
Speaker 1: was a bartering joke that went over my head. M
Speaker 1: But my house is actually kind of broke him down
Speaker 1: right now. It only has three walls one walls VisQueen
Speaker 1: as we're doing a little remodel work and uh, I'd
Speaker 1: like to do a shout out to camp Chef and
Speaker 1: Trigger because without them, I wouldn't be doing any kind
Speaker 1: of cooking because I don't have a kitchen right now.
Speaker 1: Camps at his house now, man, Yeah, yeah, it's kind
Speaker 1: of cool. I'm gonna actually miss there's a bird and
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I don't. I haven't. It's been on my
Speaker 1: list of things to do to identify the species. He's
Speaker 1: got a beautiful morning song. And our houses uh it's
Speaker 1: a cabin and he's been actually kind of coming. He's
Speaker 1: about two feet in the house in the morning and
Speaker 1: just like we've got a high ceiling that going and
Speaker 1: goes to this loft where we sleep, and um, I
Speaker 1: mean his song stills the whole house every morning, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna miss that because it's all it's like you're camping, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, the trees are right there that you're just
Speaker 1: flying back and forth. Woman. It's been great anyways, going
Speaker 1: off on a tangent here, but the canned elk has
Speaker 1: been really coming in handy, right, because I come home
Speaker 1: and you're like looking at how many dishes you gotta do? Again,
Speaker 1: no kitchen at all, so we're just doing bust up
Speaker 1: dishes in the backyard. And when you look at Candell,
Speaker 1: it's not the most advertising thing. No at all. But
Speaker 1: I just want to say that if you haven't tried
Speaker 1: it yet, try it and don't go through the hassle
Speaker 1: of browning it, seizing it, anything like that. Do what
Speaker 1: they call raw pack, which you just cube it up,
Speaker 1: packing into the can. Can it. Some people have like
Speaker 1: a teaspoon of salt. I think maybe for a whole
Speaker 1: quart something like that. It might just be a half
Speaker 1: a teaspoon. Can you put it up? And then we've
Speaker 1: been just doing barbecue sandwiches with it. Uh sloppy Joe's
Speaker 1: style sandwiches. Uh tacos um. Oh yeah, making a stew,
Speaker 1: just like quickly blowing some carrots and potatoes, dumping it
Speaker 1: in there. And it's been a it's been awesome and
Speaker 1: it's been a savior. So now I don't want to
Speaker 1: look at him. Not I'm not quite so like I
Speaker 1: don't detest the books of it so much because I
Speaker 1: see the value in it. Though. Is the thinking on
Speaker 1: raw packing um is the thinking that one you can
Speaker 1: pack more in because it hasn't gotten rigid, so you
Speaker 1: get a higher you just get higher meat the liquid.
Speaker 1: But is there something too abount the way it expels
Speaker 1: water doesn't expel water is this ringing a bell at all?
Speaker 1: It's hard to say. I just feel like when you
Speaker 1: cook it first in the pan, you're losing a lot
Speaker 1: of moisture, probably fat, you know, and you put that
Speaker 1: back in the jar, right, yeah. Put. I feel like
Speaker 1: when you if you you're just saving yourself a step
Speaker 1: because when you brought back and cook it, it's all
Speaker 1: just just there in the in the jar. When I
Speaker 1: was a kid man, in hunting season was coming on,
Speaker 1: my old man would uh take a milk crate and
Speaker 1: he would like rig a milk crate out so we
Speaker 1: could just have lunches out tailgate lunches out in the woods,
Speaker 1: you know, are out of farms where we hunted. And
Speaker 1: if he would buy I remember he'd buy coffee drops,
Speaker 1: like the coffee candy, and he'd buy bags of prunes,
Speaker 1: and you put mustard in there, and you put a
Speaker 1: bunch of those jars of canned venison, jarred venison, and
Speaker 1: then we'd have uh and you'd have rye bread or
Speaker 1: whatever to spread it on. And it was like an
Speaker 1: early connection I made to be It's like always the
Speaker 1: last thing left from last year's deer will be the jars.
Speaker 1: And then you're eating the last bit of last year's
Speaker 1: deer while trying to get this year's one. And there's
Speaker 1: sort of a continuity to it that couldn't be missed
Speaker 1: even to a kid. And I still kind of have
Speaker 1: that like feeling of it. You know. My brother bought
Speaker 1: one of those things to make steel cans. We can
Speaker 1: make your own steel cans, not glass, and he started
Speaker 1: putting whole ducks in there, and then the duck would
Speaker 1: fit the can and then can the whole damn duck.
Speaker 1: But if you drove around it within your car for
Speaker 1: a while, by the time you pulled out, it was
Speaker 1: just like bones laying in the bottom there and duck
Speaker 1: meat floating on top. Remember being out one time my
Speaker 1: brother's neighbor had died and he cleaned out his house
Speaker 1: for some reason. He had a ton of slim Fast
Speaker 1: they'll slim fast cans. Remember being out hunting and um,
Speaker 1: we're just all we're doing is drinking slim Fast and
Speaker 1: eating those canned dogs. And my buddy Pooter was my
Speaker 1: Boddy Pooter was with us, and he says, man, I
Speaker 1: just feel like we're gonna be skinning bones. But this
Speaker 1: pat you got a concluder yeah. I um, I have
Speaker 1: to say it's I can't see you folks real well
Speaker 1: because the lights, but it's to me, it's really cool
Speaker 1: to think that this many people could come in here,
Speaker 1: listen to five people just talking about hunting and fishing.
Speaker 1: And I really want you to think about something Carl
Speaker 1: Malcolm brought up in the tempee Um podcast about making
Speaker 1: a conservation effort not just between the hunting community, but
Speaker 1: outside the hunting community. Build this big effort, just big
Speaker 1: coming together at a moment basically, and you know it's
Speaker 1: not gonna happen big, some big campaign, some big public
Speaker 1: relations effort. These kind of things happen slow but sure,
Speaker 1: and they happened around these kind of venues where you
Speaker 1: folks can kind of come in here. And the reason
Speaker 1: you hear I have no thought about this, it's because
Speaker 1: of Steve Ronnella. It's because of the way he can
Speaker 1: express great thoughts about hunting, not in a defensive way,
Speaker 1: but in an explanatory way that makes people have fun
Speaker 1: and think about things in a fun way, entertaining way.
Speaker 1: And so, like I mentioned earlier about the idea I
Speaker 1: need your parents I mentioned earlier, you know, the idea
Speaker 1: driving on the highway and seeing, uh, you know, the
Speaker 1: whole comparison between a dead deer in the back of
Speaker 1: the truck and load full of pork or college, whatever
Speaker 1: it might be. And the thing I wanted to think
Speaker 1: about is you guys becoming the face of hunting. Where
Speaker 1: are your blaze orange? Where are your camouflage? And when
Speaker 1: people talk to you, be polite, explain things, don't be defensive.
Speaker 1: Just reach out the folks in a fun way, in
Speaker 1: a in a friendly way. Because I found a number
Speaker 1: of times over the years, people see a dead deer
Speaker 1: in the back of my truck or something and they'll
Speaker 1: come over and just want to talk, and they don't
Speaker 1: know about this and that in the case I can
Speaker 1: think of as fishing out of Milwaukee one time, and
Speaker 1: is in McKinley Park in Milwaukee, catching sam. We brought
Speaker 1: in some salmon, and people walking by people have never
Speaker 1: seen a fish brought off a lake before in your lives.
Speaker 1: This is not something they do every day. And they
Speaker 1: were so fascinated that you could go out in this
Speaker 1: lake and catch a fish that big, bring it back,
Speaker 1: cut it up, and take up home and eat it.
Speaker 1: And I think that's kind of the image you should
Speaker 1: have some time and people you come across the mountain,
Speaker 1: out at a gas station, at a convenience store, lob
Speaker 1: don't know what they're really looking at here, So be
Speaker 1: patient with them and take those opportunities to just open
Speaker 1: up a little bit about what a great thing that
Speaker 1: we're doing. Because this is we're not doing it for um.
Speaker 1: I don't do it to keep populations in control or
Speaker 1: control disease, all these bullshit excuses people give for hunting.
Speaker 1: I do because it's fun and it's something I loved.
Speaker 1: I loved bringing meat home, processing that stuff, getting in
Speaker 1: the freezer, bringing out later. My wife's a great crook,
Speaker 1: My daughters are getting gonna be great crooks. I just
Speaker 1: find that aspect of it just so enriching and so
Speaker 1: to me exciting that I think that's hard to miss
Speaker 1: when when you're sincere about So just keep that in mind.
Speaker 1: Be the face of hunting. It was an altruistic population
Speaker 1: control hunting specialists. Um, It's like, I hate hunting, but
Speaker 1: if I didn't do it, we're just all gonna die
Speaker 1: from deer. But no, Pat, I was just gonna say
Speaker 1: a lot of the same things you said, mostly because
Speaker 1: I've been going off your notes the whole time. But um,
Speaker 1: but no, I just wanted to say thanks, thanks for
Speaker 1: everybody that's showed up here tonight. And and I guess
Speaker 1: the one of the big reasons I say that is
Speaker 1: because just the fact that you're here, you know, shows
Speaker 1: me that you care about hunting and care about fishing
Speaker 1: and care about our wild places on on a very
Speaker 1: deep level. And um, like like Pat said, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean it's on us to be a voice for that,
Speaker 1: um and and to and to communicate with people that
Speaker 1: maybe are outside our circle and and help them understand
Speaker 1: and and hopefully bring them into the fold. And uh.
Speaker 1: And also thanks to Steve and meeting her crew for
Speaker 1: having me here tonight and letting me sit with you
Speaker 1: guys and and being the voice that you guys are
Speaker 1: because I mean, I truly believe this, man, when when
Speaker 1: we are all long gone, people are gonna be sitting
Speaker 1: around campfires telling stories about you guys. So appreciate you guys.
Speaker 1: UM a little hurt, I guess I didn't ask my
Speaker 1: opinion on if you're gonna be away from lady for
Speaker 1: a long time. Oh okay, what would you do well?
Speaker 1: Not from personal reference, say you were in a situation,
Speaker 1: say you're in a situation where you love someone. Um M,
Speaker 1: I do listen to a lot of old country music
Speaker 1: when I'm working on the house. Charlie Pryett said, Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, tell her that you'll love her even when
Speaker 1: you're gone. I love her like a devil when you
Speaker 1: get back home. That seems it seems to make sense
Speaker 1: to me. And uh switch gears. Yeah. I think we
Speaker 1: all have to recognize that that we all have a
Speaker 1: platform and we can use it, uh in a lot
Speaker 1: of different ways. We know from looking at YouTube and uh,
Speaker 1: my grandma and my mom said always says, you know,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna be around that long. So if you
Speaker 1: get a shot at you know, talking to somebody that
Speaker 1: you want to talk to, it doesn't matter who it is,
Speaker 1: if they're the President of the United States and are
Speaker 1: right there, don't regret it, but utilize your time and
Speaker 1: and talk to him and let him know what you're thinking,
Speaker 1: because that may be the only shot you get. And Uh,
Speaker 1: I think we got to realize that. And when we have,
Speaker 1: you know, these interactions we had uh, you know, in
Speaker 1: person or socially, we needed uh. And I'm absolutely guilty
Speaker 1: of this as well, but we need to uh take
Speaker 1: take advantage of that time and make the best impression possible.
Speaker 1: And uh and make sure that hunting and fishing that
Speaker 1: we love is around for a really long time. And uh,
Speaker 1: I really got to thank everybody in here's uh you know,
Speaker 1: wearing those public landowner shirts and b h A shirts
Speaker 1: and the TRCP shirts and um, and thank you very much.
Speaker 1: But you know that's not enough. You gotta you gotta
Speaker 1: go a little bit further. You gotta get a public
Speaker 1: water t shirt, which doesn't exist yet. But uh, and
Speaker 1: if issues come up, not only in your state but
Speaker 1: in others, you know, take advantage and and uh pick
Speaker 1: up pick up the phone and call your duly elected
Speaker 1: officials and let them know that you appreciate what you
Speaker 1: do and the places that you can go and and
Speaker 1: enjoy those things. All right, my my concluder, are you cool? Uh? First,
Speaker 1: you uh wish a happy anniversary to our friend Mitch
Speaker 1: Petrie from Sports Channel is here with his wife Kristen,
Speaker 1: and presumably it's probably a large package of experiences that
Speaker 1: he's lavishing upon her this week. He chose to make
Speaker 1: this one of them, so happy anniversary, and also Uh,
Speaker 1: there's an active duty Air Force serviceman here named Craig Quinnett.
Speaker 1: Flew here to be here tonight and probably not in
Speaker 1: the Air Force jet. Are you here, Craig? Great? You
Speaker 1: made it all right, guys, Thank you very much. Oh.
Speaker 1: A couple quick announcements. Uh, we got our steam breathing,
Speaker 1: our steam breathing anthem turkey posters for sale out front.
Speaker 1: You saw those blouert shirts, Metior podcast shirts. Until we
Speaker 1: get kicked out, which happens when eleven. Yeah, so until
Speaker 1: we get kicked out of the leven will mosey up
Speaker 1: that that a way there, and we'll be there to
Speaker 1: take pictures and sign stuff and hang out until they
Speaker 1: tell us that we can't anymore. Thank you very much
Speaker 1: for coming out tonight. It is great and I love
Speaker 1: you all. Thank you. Let's try and hate a fre