WEBVTT - Sarah Jessica Parker and Ian Schrager 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:05.640 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:10.880 My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:15.400 hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:21.320 their careers, what relationships influenced their work Today to New 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:25.680 York City Icons, a hotelier and the brains behind Studio 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:30.320 fifty four, Ian Schrager and Sarah Jessica Parker, actress and 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:37.600 purveyor of all things fabulous Sunday nights. In the late 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.680 nineties and early two thousand's, this sound could be heard 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:49.280 in homes all over the country. Over six television seasons 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:54.800 and two feature films, Carrie, Miranda, Charlotte and Samantha navigated 0:00:54.840 --> 0:01:01.680 the complexities of single life in New York City. When 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.759 HBO's Sex in the City wrapped in two thousand four, 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.600 it left millions of empty Cosmopolitan glasses in its wake 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.440 and changed the conversation at brunch forever Do we want 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:15.280 another round? What do you think? It also made stars 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:17.959 of all four of its actresses, most notably the show's 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:22.040 narrator and my first guest to this hour, Sarah Jessica Parker. 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:27.400 I am someone who is looking for Love, before Carrie 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:32.959 Bradshaw transformed Parker into a celebrity fashion icon television producer. 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:36.880 Sarah Jessica Parker was a working actress and work was 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.680 actually an escape for her. She was one of eight 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.240 siblings growing up. You know, it was insane in our 0:01:43.280 --> 0:01:47.680 homes and your childhood. You started working very young, you 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:51.640 were your child. You're eight, and what do you remember 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:55.400 about your childhood. I'm not certain how we sort of 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:59.240 recreate how we felt about our childhood, because I wouldn't. 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:03.200 I wouldn't to sort of fix the things that were painful, 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:09.000 or change the disappointments to triumphs or the struggles to ease. 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:13.680 I remember everything about my childhood, and I think the 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.480 memories are vivid because it was a very vivid life. 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:26.680 It was a colorful, energetic, unpredictable, exciting, scary, sad, ebulent life. 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.840 And um, I think I benefited from that in countless ways, 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.760 far more than I would have if it had been easy. 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.120 I think I loved working because it allowed me something 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:40.720 of my own time, to myself, something that I felt 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.240 was mine. Were your siblings performers, any of them? My 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:47.280 brother Toby was an actor, UM, and was started working 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.560 before me, and then we eventually worked together a number 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:54.920 of times. And I think he would also say that 0:02:55.000 --> 0:03:00.400 he loved this independence from his siblings money. Knowing that 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:02.480 we had this, we were creating like a past. Remember 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:05.680 your past book at the bank, You and I have it, okay. 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.400 So all of those were wonderful. Going home was a 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:14.960 little dreary after a day of independence. But I think 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.200 about days that I didn't want to be in my home, 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:19.720 and I think about days that I got to be 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.280 out working as an actor, that you know, getting through 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:29.160 the days that that I found not always super pleasant. Um, 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:32.079 I earned those days away. I earned the five dollars 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.040 they gave me from my dinner money or this opportunity 0:03:35.080 --> 0:03:37.840 to pretend to be somebody else. So I liked the 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:42.440 balance of the suffering and the reward. Is that crazy? No? No, 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:46.120 I think that I remember when when I worked and 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.440 I got a job, and I remember I just felt strange. 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:51.800 I mean they I did a television soap opera in 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.720 New York. There was the lowest rated soap opera which 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.720 I did the Doctors before they were canceled. Were you 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.680 a doctor? No? I was the bastard son. I was 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.520 a swindling son of a doctor, the scion, and I 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:12.280 get this job they pay you for I was twenty 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:13.800 and I get the job and they pay me the 0:04:13.840 --> 0:04:17.600 minimum and I get a check for whatever, like stars. 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:19.560 The first year, I remember sitting there thinking I make 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.599 more money than my dad. We've been teaching for twenty 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:25.000 eight years at a public school. And I felt funny. 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:29.360 I felt weird, like people will always sometimes smack you 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.240 or swat you and say, what do you know? You're 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.680 out of touch because you old you. People are so overpaid. 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:37.080 And there's a part of me sits here and go, yeah, 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.160 I mean it is kind of crazy, but but I 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:41.719 have to ask you a question. Wait, let me just 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.960 go back, because I think it is curious when you're 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:49.240 criticized or or there's a conversation around sort of that 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.240 you might be out of touch or you're not you know, 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.680 you don't recognize what it means to work hard. On 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:57.520 one hand, you can say it is true, um, lots 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:01.159 of people make absurd amounts of money and none of 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:02.920 it's just none of it makes sense and none of 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:06.159 it's fair and it's but I think the accusation of 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.360 your being out of touch or you're not aware of 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:10.120 what it means to work hard. That's the part of 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:13.840 that kind of charge that I am most frustrated by, 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:18.159 because a lot of people I know who work in entertainment, theater, 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:24.320 show business didn't come from anything and simply worked incredibly hard. 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.920 And we're willing to work hard and earn nothing, and 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.280 every now and then a job comes along that does 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:33.600 pay and that you know, that's wonderful, and almost everybody 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:37.440 I know is thrilled and appreciative. So the idea that 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:42.600 you know, we're sort of blithely going through life, you know, 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.520 not aware of um out of whack it is and 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:48.880 how lucky we are to to and then and the 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:50.919 other part of that I find is that other people 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:55.200 have jobs where there's a meritorious system of a sentencing. 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:58.080 You go to high school, you do well, you get 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.080 the good s, A t s, you get the gp A, 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.000 you get the right scores, you go to Harvard, and 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.159 in our business you can be great and do great work. 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:07.200 It doesn't mean anything. The mean you're gonna move up. 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.520 Sometimes the most successful people are not the most talented 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:12.560 people in terms of the kind of complexity they're acting. 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:15.040 If you will, yeah, and I think I'm predictable nature, 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:18.400 I mean, and it's it's impossible, you know, to compare 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.839 career trajectories and paths and choices. But there are things 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:25.360 that are you know, obviously very unstable about making these 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:30.000 life choices. And and most people, you know, really everybody 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.320 I admire basically has not really you know, hit the 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:35.680 pay dirt the way that I think they should have. 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:39.719 And so, you know, I'm particularly sensitive to the idea 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:41.760 that I that I'm not aware of what it means 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:46.120 to work hard, and that I'm not aware of the 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:51.400 imbalance of you know, the sort of It's not you know, 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.200 for me, what is interesting is you and men. Eventually 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:58.000 you become very famous. It's you, it's Mary Tyler Moore, 0:06:58.279 --> 0:07:02.520 it's Gene Stapleton. You become one of the most prominent 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:06.920 women in the history of television. Before Sex in the City. 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:11.440 When someone hired you, what were they hiring you for? Well, 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:16.320 they were usually hiring me to play uh. For a while, 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:22.040 I was the cerebral best friend of the pretty lead girl. 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:29.600 Subversive or UH could be a clever person, witty, um, 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:40.200 maybe bitter, uh, you know, funny, buoyant, um wise, cracking, 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:45.520 but not overly confident. Those were the roles, never the lead, 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:48.640 you know, foot loose. I was the spirited best friend 0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:53.080 of Lorie Singer. She was the beautiful, withholding, I don't know, 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:58.360 desirable lead. And but what once again I will say 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.640 and I couldn't mean this, And it's not that I'm 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:04.000 looking back on it fondly and kind of creating affection 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:08.480 for a time or a place. I really I thought 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.160 I had it all. I would work in the theater 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.960 all the time. I would play these smaller parts in movies. 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.640 I would do television shows. Um. I assumed that the 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:21.720 leads were really only made for a particular type of 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:26.080 girl and then woman, and I understood that I just 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:30.920 wasn't going to ever be that person. And I talked 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.040 myself into believing that the roles that I got to 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:37.319 play were more complex people. They were more nuanced, they 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:41.920 were more interesting. Sometimes that was the case, not always. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:44.680 But the opportunity to work, to move from job to 0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:49.840 job was the best because I was constantly figuring out 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.400 new relationships, new people. How did they work, How do 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:54.120 I work? What do I want to do? Like they do? 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.160 What I mean? You make a lot of films. I 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.000 remember that, but all the people those days of like 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.920 running to a pay phone, checking your voicemail, I mean sorry, 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:07.240 checking your answering machine. It was like you're like, oh, 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:08.720 there's a lot of calls. It's a lot of calls. 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:13.280 You have thirty nine messaging messages, just the potential of 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:18.000 that next job. And then what happened? And then, um, 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.960 Kevin Euvane, my agent of or thirty years now, rang 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:26.160 me and said, there's this pilot script a guy named 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.240 Darren Starred. You know who, Darren Starr. As I said, yes, 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:31.840 I know, certainly do Melrose Place, UM, Beverly Hills nine 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.040 two one oh. He he said he's written this pilot. 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:36.240 He says he's written it with you in mind. So 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.960 Starr told you Vane, he wrote this with you in mind. Correct. 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:42.920 Kevin Euvane told me that that's what Darren Starr had 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:47.480 had shared with him. What I read the script, Um, 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:52.120 I read the script right away. I was really kind 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:54.800 of confounded by the idea that I was a voice 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.760 that would have come to mind because she was so 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.240 this part of Carrie Bradshaw was so like anything I'd 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:06.360 ever played before. Um, I would say maybe a year 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.120 and a half two years prior to the script, and 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:13.520 so I met with Darren. He said to me, you know, 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.679 I would love for you to consider this. We met 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:18.000 at eat on the Upper east Side, which I thought 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:20.240 was kind of a fancy place. It's expensive, you know, 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.920 the menu is pretty deer like everything on the menu, 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:27.679 and uh, I said, you know, I don't feel comfortable 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:29.600 doing nudity. I don't. I think we can be more 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.080 thoughtful about this language. She's a writer. Does she have 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.079 to use the F for it? Isn't she more thoughtful about? 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.280 You know? He kept just saying to everything, every possible 0:10:38.280 --> 0:10:40.600 obstacle I can throw it his way to talk him 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:45.040 out of hiring me. He had a relatively great convincing 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:47.080 and have you been successful at talking people out of 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:52.400 hiring you previously? I think I'd given people lots of 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.839 other ideas, like don't you think Patty Clarkson the same one. 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.240 I'm always offering up Patty Clarkson because I don't know 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.800 about you, but I always have these actors in my 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.360 head that I think are more deserving or better, frank 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:07.760 simply better. I always I always think that. And I 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.080 always think that there were like four or five other 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:13.280 three named actresses that either they may be meant to 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:15.160 go to first and that when I showed up there, 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:17.800 like we didn't mean that, we meant Mary Louise Parker. 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:22.760 But anyway, he was very convincing and um and really, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.679 uh just so tenation. He just never let the idea go. 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.679 And and I said, oh, and by the way, between 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:31.520 you and me and I'm actually getting married, I think 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.400 next week. It was, I think I'm getting married next 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.040 week on my night off. He got the day off 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:38.960 and we're gonna get married. So I don't want to 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.400 start shooting until after we get married. And he said, 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:43.080 that's fine, we'll figure it out. We'll push it a 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:47.120 few days. And so I went and did this pilot 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.360 and um, you know you ready to do a TV show? No? 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:52.840 And to be honest, at the time, HBO is a 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.720 very different network. It was a place that was a 0:11:55.760 --> 0:12:01.480 primarily male dominated um uh net work. It was there 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.040 was heavy on the sports and boxing. There were a 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:09.559 few scripted shows dream on, Um a football show. Yeah, 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:13.920 um there was a football show about a football team. 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.080 You know, it was skewed towards the male audience that 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.280 existed for the for their sports, their great special sports events, 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.360 and so I thought, you know, I'll do this pilot 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:24.680 and I loved I thought the script was spectacled, and 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:27.120 actually I gave it to Matthew and my oldest brother Pippin, 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.240 and they both read it and said, without a doubt, 0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:33.360 you should do this. So I did the pilot, went 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:35.920 on with my life and one day I was walking 0:12:35.960 --> 0:12:38.400 down the street and I ran into Merrill poster and 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:39.920 she said to me, I think I was on my 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.520 way to see a play and she said, oh, I 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:46.240 I saw your television show. And I said her, what 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:48.280 what television show? And she said did you do a 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:52.040 pilot called Sexton City. I was like and I literally said, oh, 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.840 that's right, I did, and she said it's good and 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.400 I said it is. I haven't seen it and she said, 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.000 oh no, I just thought I think it's really good. 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:03.160 I said, okay. So after Merril post the pilot, what 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.840 happens next? I think eventually I saw it or was 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.119 forced to see it, and um, there was this discussion 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:11.960 of it, you know, going to series. And I then 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:13.679 tried to get out of it, called a meeting and 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:16.120 said to them, gentlemen, you have to help me get 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.200 out of this. I don't want to do a television series. 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:21.800 I've rethought this. I would like to offer myself up 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.400 to HBO basically free. I will work for them for 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.760 the next four years. I'll do any television movie they want. 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:28.680 But I just don't think I want to be caught 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.840 up and tied down in intelligence series. This is after 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.240 you've seen the pilot. After i'd see the pilot. I 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.000 might not have seen the pilot yet, and I just 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:41.240 sort of rethought my future and panicked, And eventually they 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:43.600 producer ended up coming on the show who I did 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:47.200 a movie with, Miami Rhapsody. They said to me, look, 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:49.440 this is We'll tell you about this kind of home. 0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:52.560 HBO is a place where it doesn't feel good after 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.760 season when we don't do season two, don't worry about that. 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.960 Just let's try that hostage. I went to the set 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.720 on the first day and I never looked back, and 0:14:01.880 --> 0:14:03.560 every day I got in the shower to go to work, 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:08.880 I was I was gobsmacked by the idea that I 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.240 didn't want to be anywhere else. There wasn't a day 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:13.440 that I spent on that set that I didn't want 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.400 to be there. When I think of that show, because 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:18.439 it was a lot of practical locations, and when you 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.120 guys were on the streets a lot, you weren't on 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:22.720 the stage much. We weren't, And I always think of 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.400 you like four chicks in a trailer changing your clothes 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:32.720 and outside of you you here. Yeah, yeah, he loved it. 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.560 I loved it. I loved the work. I love the people, 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.160 I love the storytelling, I love the character I loved it. 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.280 When did you know you guys had gotten it? Though? Well, 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.359 I felt at the end of the first season, Um, 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.680 we produced the whole first season without being on the air. 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.720 We went on the air, I think while we were 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:53.920 already into our second season shooting, and even though there 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.040 wasn't a terribly large audience at that time, I just 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:01.160 felt that the stories we were telling, we're successful. And 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.240 I think it became really necessary for us as we 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.280 started to face a second and possibly third season that 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:10.040 it had to get You couldn't hang your hat on 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.880 being titillating. You couldn't hang your hat on, you know, 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:17.040 nor did we want to on the story of clothes 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:19.760 and carry in the story that told. But rather she 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:24.480 had to start revealing why she was floundering, Why why 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:28.880 was she a mess? And Michael just had some innate, 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.000 sort of preternatural instinct about Carry Bradshaw and how to 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:36.480 tell her story, and he was superior. I think Michael 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.000 was you know, grew up with a lot of bunch 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.880 of sisters, a lot of important women in his life. 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:45.760 He is deeply curious about women's stories. He can write women. 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.120 It doesn't really make any sense, although there have been 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:50.840 some great, great screenwriters who have written I mean, we 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:57.720 know them, but he just was very, very First of all, 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.320 he loved Carrie Bradshaw. He loved telling her story and 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.520 was as invested in it as I was. And I 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:06.400 think that's why we were such great partners and producing partners, 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:10.080 because we were both bitter enders. We will work until 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.800 we were bloody and bloody crossing the finish line. We 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:15.920 cared about it being as perfect as possible. But he 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:20.920 loved that girl and he loved those stories. And I 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.840 think when you were that interested and curious about when 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:27.400 you're a writer like that, it just makes the writing 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.880 that much richer. So King's the head writer, and he's 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.520 a guy with an eye and an ear towards women's stories. 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:35.520 Was the writing staff a lot of women or was 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:40.160 mostly women. The top of each season, they would meet 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.560 in a writing room Los Angeles, where a lot of 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.960 them lived at Michael Patrick's you know, home base was 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.280 when he wasn't you know, shooting our show, and every 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:51.720 now and then a fellow would come along and he 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:53.560 would sit in the writing room. I think at the top, 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.640 you know, when they're breaking story and just um kind 0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:01.040 of give a perspective that was important for people to 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:04.880 be familiar with because there was such a strong female sensibility, 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:07.760 and a couple of scripts were written by men. We 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:10.440 had one young man for a while, but they weren't 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.800 as consistent year to year as as our women were. 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:16.720 At what point was the teeny staff too very tiny 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:21.000 relative for television, considered quite small? Yeah, you know, at 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.280 some point the show becomes this huge hit, And at 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.120 what point in the process did they start to turn 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.679 to you and say, well, now you're a producer, Well, 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:30.720 now we're going to factor in your inborn When I 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:32.640 first met with Darren, he said to me, why don't 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.439 you be a consulting producer on the show or consultant, 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:36.840 And I said, you know, he said it would be 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:38.680 good for you. You could learn about television, you could 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.080 learn about producing television. So I said, well, who would 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.719 say no to an opportunity to learn? And so I 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.800 was very devoted to that idea. And second season they said, 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.919 do you want to start producing? And I did, and 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:55.840 I I said yes if they continued to let me learn, 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:59.240 and that sort of the understanding was that I kind 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.800 of laid out was up. I would only contribute if 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:04.280 and when I thought I had something valuable to say. Really, 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.159 it was an opportunity for me to now sit and 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.200 be more part of the conversation and learn about producing. 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:14.080 And I just did and loved it and loved it. 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:16.920 And one aspect of that that I comes to mind 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.520 for me, is it in your career prior to this, 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:22.919 number one on the call sheet is a guy and 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:28.000 you're the girl. So Nick Cage approves you, and Bruce No, 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:32.639 I was hired before Nick. What I mean? But for 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:36.560 many times in your career you're the girl, and now 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.200 you're number one of the call sheet and you get 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.000 to decide who the men are that are coming in 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.399 the door. How did that work with you? You know? 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:47.399 I mean you have like kind of um tastes and 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:51.040 you react in ways that you didn't even know you 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:55.280 would I would have no feelings about certain names, and 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.439 and Michael would have feelings. And that was, you know, 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:02.399 sometimes hard because he would write it so he imagined things, 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.720 and so I couldn't argue with what what he saw 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:09.360 in his head. My problem was that I knew what 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.240 I was going to have to do on screen with them, 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:15.040 and I think there's something very interesting about that which 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:16.879 is hard to explain to people. But you and I 0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:21.040 can get into it now. So you know, when they've 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:25.480 given you somebody to play opposite, and everybody wanted them 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:29.560 but you because what and what you know, I would 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.480 allow it under dress when someone's holding me down and saying, 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.080 you have to trust me, you have to trust me. 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:35.760 I know you haven't seen this out of this person. 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:38.560 I think he or she can do is perfect for 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.720 this part of your boyfriend. So what I think it's 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:47.800 hard to explain to these people, right the Senate that 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:53.320 believes in their choice, is that you know what they 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.159 won't bring, and you know what you will then have 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.800 to do is tell the story for two people on camera. 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:03.680 And I think what's really really dangerous about that is 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.679 you end up projecting onto the other person what you 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.359 wish they were bringing into the scene. And what I 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:14.400 think happens is you become a bad actor. You overacting. 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:18.800 You try to create chemistry and romance and love and 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.800 you imbue the scene with everything, and you can't because 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:23.880 when you feel it, even if you're not in love 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:27.680 with this person. I've worked with countless actors who I'm 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:29.560 not in love with them. I really mean it. But 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:33.440 I love working with them and I can. I don't 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:36.200 care what they look like, smell like, where they come from, 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:40.359 who they are, how tall, how short, if they're smart 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:45.080 and interesting and talented. I do not the greatest act 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:47.840 it's but then this is the weird part, right, This 0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:50.359 is the fork in the road, is that I don't 0:20:50.440 --> 0:20:53.400 need to I don't even care if I don't want 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:59.159 to have sex with them. You just want to feel 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:07.000 some friction, some kind of exciting sword player love, some 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.800 capturing of something I did street carent Name Desire with 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:14.680 Amy Madigan and Amy Madigan's real Antiochley flinty cow girl. 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:17.960 Usually this really kind of tough little girl. And I 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:20.760 loved Amy every night. I was in love with her, 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:23.960 and I've got to have that some feeling. It's just 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:30.200 so wonderful, to have that, and when you don't, it's 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:33.880 it's a kind of hard work. What would you do? 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.160 I would be you know, it would be very hard 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:40.920 and earn your money that week. I guess, so, I mean, 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:45.200 I don't, I don't know. I think it would be hard, 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:47.320 and it would be a different kind of hard work. 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:49.520 Like I would work so hard on that show. I 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.280 worked hours. I would do a hundred hundred ten hour weeks. 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:56.280 I didn't care this kind of hard work shows. It 0:21:56.480 --> 0:21:59.760 made me a bad actor because I would try to 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:04.960 keep it alive and around for both parties. And I 0:22:05.000 --> 0:22:09.879 think it makes you over animated, surface and fake and 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:13.520 it's just awful, and it would upset me and it 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:21.480 would make me pouty. It's really bizarrely hard. It was 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.080 not hard for Sarah Jessica Parker to work with Chris Noah, 0:22:25.400 --> 0:22:28.240 who played Mr. Big on Sex in the City. She'll 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:31.600 talk about their collaboration in a moment. I would never 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:35.560 have predicted that we would have become that close. Take 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.000 a listen to our archives if you want to hear 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:42.320 other conversations with longtime New Yorkers, like the late Elaine 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:47.359 Stretch about a month ago, I really said, I want 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.960 out of here. I want out of New York. I 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:53.280 shouldn't live in New York anymore. It's not for me anymore. 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.879 It's too fast for me. Or no, it's not too fast. 0:22:57.960 --> 0:23:00.480 And I changed my mind about that. It's not this, 0:23:00.680 --> 0:23:05.399