1 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work Today to New 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: York City Icons, a hotelier and the brains behind Studio 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: fifty four, Ian Schrager and Sarah Jessica Parker, actress and 7 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: purveyor of all things fabulous Sunday nights. In the late 8 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: nineties and early two thousand's, this sound could be heard 9 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: in homes all over the country. Over six television seasons 10 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: and two feature films, Carrie, Miranda, Charlotte and Samantha navigated 11 00:00:54,840 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: the complexities of single life in New York City. When 12 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 1: HBO's Sex in the City wrapped in two thousand four, 13 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: it left millions of empty Cosmopolitan glasses in its wake 14 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: and changed the conversation at brunch forever Do we want 15 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: another round? What do you think? It also made stars 16 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 1: of all four of its actresses, most notably the show's 17 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: narrator and my first guest to this hour, Sarah Jessica Parker. 18 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: I am someone who is looking for Love, before Carrie 19 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: Bradshaw transformed Parker into a celebrity fashion icon television producer. 20 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica Parker was a working actress and work was 21 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: actually an escape for her. She was one of eight 22 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: siblings growing up. You know, it was insane in our 23 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: homes and your childhood. You started working very young, you 24 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: were your child. You're eight, and what do you remember 25 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: about your childhood. I'm not certain how we sort of 26 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: recreate how we felt about our childhood, because I wouldn't. 27 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: I wouldn't to sort of fix the things that were painful, 28 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: or change the disappointments to triumphs or the struggles to ease. 29 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: I remember everything about my childhood, and I think the 30 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: memories are vivid because it was a very vivid life. 31 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: It was a colorful, energetic, unpredictable, exciting, scary, sad, ebulent life. 32 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: And um, I think I benefited from that in countless ways, 33 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: far more than I would have if it had been easy. 34 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: I think I loved working because it allowed me something 35 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: of my own time, to myself, something that I felt 36 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: was mine. Were your siblings performers, any of them? My 37 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: brother Toby was an actor, UM, and was started working 38 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: before me, and then we eventually worked together a number 39 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: of times. And I think he would also say that 40 00:02:55,000 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: he loved this independence from his siblings money. Knowing that 41 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: we had this, we were creating like a past. Remember 42 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: your past book at the bank, You and I have it, okay. 43 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: So all of those were wonderful. Going home was a 44 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: little dreary after a day of independence. But I think 45 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: about days that I didn't want to be in my home, 46 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: and I think about days that I got to be 47 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: out working as an actor, that you know, getting through 48 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: the days that that I found not always super pleasant. Um, 49 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,079 Speaker 1: I earned those days away. I earned the five dollars 50 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: they gave me from my dinner money or this opportunity 51 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,840 Speaker 1: to pretend to be somebody else. So I liked the 52 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: balance of the suffering and the reward. Is that crazy? No? No, 53 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: I think that I remember when when I worked and 54 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: I got a job, and I remember I just felt strange. 55 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: I mean they I did a television soap opera in 56 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: New York. There was the lowest rated soap opera which 57 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: I did the Doctors before they were canceled. Were you 58 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: a doctor? No? I was the bastard son. I was 59 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: a swindling son of a doctor, the scion, and I 60 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: get this job they pay you for I was twenty 61 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: and I get the job and they pay me the 62 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: minimum and I get a check for whatever, like stars. 63 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: The first year, I remember sitting there thinking I make 64 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 1: more money than my dad. We've been teaching for twenty 65 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: eight years at a public school. And I felt funny. 66 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: I felt weird, like people will always sometimes smack you 67 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: or swat you and say, what do you know? You're 68 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: out of touch because you old you. People are so overpaid. 69 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: And there's a part of me sits here and go, yeah, 70 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: I mean it is kind of crazy, but but I 71 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: have to ask you a question. Wait, let me just 72 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: go back, because I think it is curious when you're 73 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 1: criticized or or there's a conversation around sort of that 74 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: you might be out of touch or you're not you know, 75 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 1: you don't recognize what it means to work hard. On 76 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: one hand, you can say it is true, um, lots 77 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,159 Speaker 1: of people make absurd amounts of money and none of 78 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: it's just none of it makes sense and none of 79 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: it's fair and it's but I think the accusation of 80 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: your being out of touch or you're not aware of 81 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: what it means to work hard. That's the part of 82 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 1: that kind of charge that I am most frustrated by, 83 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: because a lot of people I know who work in entertainment, theater, 84 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: show business didn't come from anything and simply worked incredibly hard. 85 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: And we're willing to work hard and earn nothing, and 86 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 1: every now and then a job comes along that does 87 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 1: pay and that you know, that's wonderful, and almost everybody 88 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: I know is thrilled and appreciative. So the idea that 89 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: you know, we're sort of blithely going through life, you know, 90 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: not aware of um out of whack it is and 91 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: how lucky we are to to and then and the 92 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: other part of that I find is that other people 93 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: have jobs where there's a meritorious system of a sentencing. 94 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: You go to high school, you do well, you get 95 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: the good s, A t s, you get the gp A, 96 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: you get the right scores, you go to Harvard, and 97 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: in our business you can be great and do great work. 98 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean anything. The mean you're gonna move up. 99 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: Sometimes the most successful people are not the most talented 100 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: people in terms of the kind of complexity they're acting. 101 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: If you will, yeah, and I think I'm predictable nature, 102 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: I mean, and it's it's impossible, you know, to compare 103 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: career trajectories and paths and choices. But there are things 104 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: that are you know, obviously very unstable about making these 105 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: life choices. And and most people, you know, really everybody 106 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: I admire basically has not really you know, hit the 107 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 1: pay dirt the way that I think they should have. 108 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: And so, you know, I'm particularly sensitive to the idea 109 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: that I that I'm not aware of what it means 110 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: to work hard, and that I'm not aware of the 111 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: imbalance of you know, the sort of It's not you know, 112 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: for me, what is interesting is you and men. Eventually 113 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,000 Speaker 1: you become very famous. It's you, it's Mary Tyler Moore, 114 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: it's Gene Stapleton. You become one of the most prominent 115 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: women in the history of television. Before Sex in the City. 116 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: When someone hired you, what were they hiring you for? Well, 117 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: they were usually hiring me to play uh. For a while, 118 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: I was the cerebral best friend of the pretty lead girl. 119 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: Subversive or UH could be a clever person, witty, um, 120 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: maybe bitter, uh, you know, funny, buoyant, um wise, cracking, 121 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: but not overly confident. Those were the roles, never the lead, 122 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: you know, foot loose. I was the spirited best friend 123 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 1: of Lorie Singer. She was the beautiful, withholding, I don't know, 124 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: desirable lead. And but what once again I will say 125 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: and I couldn't mean this, And it's not that I'm 126 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: looking back on it fondly and kind of creating affection 127 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: for a time or a place. I really I thought 128 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: I had it all. I would work in the theater 129 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: all the time. I would play these smaller parts in movies. 130 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: I would do television shows. Um. I assumed that the 131 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: leads were really only made for a particular type of 132 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: girl and then woman, and I understood that I just 133 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: wasn't going to ever be that person. And I talked 134 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: myself into believing that the roles that I got to 135 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 1: play were more complex people. They were more nuanced, they 136 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 1: were more interesting. Sometimes that was the case, not always. 137 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: But the opportunity to work, to move from job to 138 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: job was the best because I was constantly figuring out 139 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: new relationships, new people. How did they work, How do 140 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: I work? What do I want to do? Like they do? 141 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: What I mean? You make a lot of films. I 142 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: remember that, but all the people those days of like 143 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: running to a pay phone, checking your voicemail, I mean sorry, 144 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: checking your answering machine. It was like you're like, oh, 145 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: there's a lot of calls. It's a lot of calls. 146 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: You have thirty nine messaging messages, just the potential of 147 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: that next job. And then what happened? And then, um, 148 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: Kevin Euvane, my agent of or thirty years now, rang 149 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: me and said, there's this pilot script a guy named 150 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: Darren Starred. You know who, Darren Starr. As I said, yes, 151 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: I know, certainly do Melrose Place, UM, Beverly Hills nine 152 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: two one oh. He he said he's written this pilot. 153 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: He says he's written it with you in mind. So 154 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: Starr told you Vane, he wrote this with you in mind. Correct. 155 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,920 Speaker 1: Kevin Euvane told me that that's what Darren Starr had 156 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: had shared with him. What I read the script, Um, 157 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: I read the script right away. I was really kind 158 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: of confounded by the idea that I was a voice 159 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: that would have come to mind because she was so 160 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: this part of Carrie Bradshaw was so like anything I'd 161 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: ever played before. Um, I would say maybe a year 162 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: and a half two years prior to the script, and 163 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: so I met with Darren. He said to me, you know, 164 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: I would love for you to consider this. We met 165 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: at eat on the Upper east Side, which I thought 166 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: was kind of a fancy place. It's expensive, you know, 167 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: the menu is pretty deer like everything on the menu, 168 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: and uh, I said, you know, I don't feel comfortable 169 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: doing nudity. I don't. I think we can be more 170 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: thoughtful about this language. She's a writer. Does she have 171 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: to use the F for it? Isn't she more thoughtful about? 172 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: You know? He kept just saying to everything, every possible 173 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: obstacle I can throw it his way to talk him 174 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: out of hiring me. He had a relatively great convincing 175 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: and have you been successful at talking people out of 176 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 1: hiring you previously? I think I'd given people lots of 177 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: other ideas, like don't you think Patty Clarkson the same one. 178 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: I'm always offering up Patty Clarkson because I don't know 179 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: about you, but I always have these actors in my 180 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: head that I think are more deserving or better, frank 181 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: simply better. I always I always think that. And I 182 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: always think that there were like four or five other 183 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: three named actresses that either they may be meant to 184 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: go to first and that when I showed up there, 185 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: like we didn't mean that, we meant Mary Louise Parker. 186 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 1: But anyway, he was very convincing and um and really, 187 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: uh just so tenation. He just never let the idea go. 188 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 1: And and I said, oh, and by the way, between 189 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: you and me and I'm actually getting married, I think 190 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: next week. It was, I think I'm getting married next 191 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: week on my night off. He got the day off 192 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: and we're gonna get married. So I don't want to 193 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: start shooting until after we get married. And he said, 194 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: that's fine, we'll figure it out. We'll push it a 195 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 1: few days. And so I went and did this pilot 196 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: and um, you know you ready to do a TV show? No? 197 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 1: And to be honest, at the time, HBO is a 198 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: very different network. It was a place that was a 199 00:11:55,760 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: primarily male dominated um uh net work. It was there 200 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: was heavy on the sports and boxing. There were a 201 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 1: few scripted shows dream on, Um a football show. Yeah, 202 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: um there was a football show about a football team. 203 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: You know, it was skewed towards the male audience that 204 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: existed for the for their sports, their great special sports events, 205 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: and so I thought, you know, I'll do this pilot 206 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: and I loved I thought the script was spectacled, and 207 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: actually I gave it to Matthew and my oldest brother Pippin, 208 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: and they both read it and said, without a doubt, 209 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: you should do this. So I did the pilot, went 210 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: on with my life and one day I was walking 211 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: down the street and I ran into Merrill poster and 212 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: she said to me, I think I was on my 213 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: way to see a play and she said, oh, I 214 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 1: I saw your television show. And I said her, what 215 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: what television show? And she said did you do a 216 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: pilot called Sexton City. I was like and I literally said, oh, 217 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: that's right, I did, and she said it's good and 218 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: I said it is. I haven't seen it and she said, 219 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: oh no, I just thought I think it's really good. 220 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: I said, okay. So after Merril post the pilot, what 221 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: happens next? I think eventually I saw it or was 222 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,119 Speaker 1: forced to see it, and um, there was this discussion 223 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: of it, you know, going to series. And I then 224 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: tried to get out of it, called a meeting and 225 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: said to them, gentlemen, you have to help me get 226 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: out of this. I don't want to do a television series. 227 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: I've rethought this. I would like to offer myself up 228 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: to HBO basically free. I will work for them for 229 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: the next four years. I'll do any television movie they want. 230 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: But I just don't think I want to be caught 231 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: up and tied down in intelligence series. This is after 232 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 1: you've seen the pilot. After i'd see the pilot. I 233 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: might not have seen the pilot yet, and I just 234 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: sort of rethought my future and panicked, And eventually they 235 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: producer ended up coming on the show who I did 236 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: a movie with, Miami Rhapsody. They said to me, look, 237 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: this is We'll tell you about this kind of home. 238 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: HBO is a place where it doesn't feel good after 239 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 1: season when we don't do season two, don't worry about that. 240 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: Just let's try that hostage. I went to the set 241 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,720 Speaker 1: on the first day and I never looked back, and 242 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: every day I got in the shower to go to work, 243 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: I was I was gobsmacked by the idea that I 244 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: didn't want to be anywhere else. There wasn't a day 245 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: that I spent on that set that I didn't want 246 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: to be there. When I think of that show, because 247 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: it was a lot of practical locations, and when you 248 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: guys were on the streets a lot, you weren't on 249 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: the stage much. We weren't, And I always think of 250 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: you like four chicks in a trailer changing your clothes 251 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: and outside of you you here. Yeah, yeah, he loved it. 252 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: I loved it. I loved the work. I love the people, 253 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: I love the storytelling, I love the character I loved it. 254 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: When did you know you guys had gotten it? Though? Well, 255 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,359 Speaker 1: I felt at the end of the first season, Um, 256 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: we produced the whole first season without being on the air. 257 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: We went on the air, I think while we were 258 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: already into our second season shooting, and even though there 259 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: wasn't a terribly large audience at that time, I just 260 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: felt that the stories we were telling, we're successful. And 261 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: I think it became really necessary for us as we 262 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: started to face a second and possibly third season that 263 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: it had to get You couldn't hang your hat on 264 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: being titillating. You couldn't hang your hat on, you know, 265 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: nor did we want to on the story of clothes 266 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: and carry in the story that told. But rather she 267 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: had to start revealing why she was floundering, Why why 268 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: was she a mess? And Michael just had some innate, 269 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: sort of preternatural instinct about Carry Bradshaw and how to 270 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: tell her story, and he was superior. I think Michael 271 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: was you know, grew up with a lot of bunch 272 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: of sisters, a lot of important women in his life. 273 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: He is deeply curious about women's stories. He can write women. 274 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: It doesn't really make any sense, although there have been 275 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: some great, great screenwriters who have written I mean, we 276 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: know them, but he just was very, very First of all, 277 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: he loved Carrie Bradshaw. He loved telling her story and 278 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: was as invested in it as I was. And I 279 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: think that's why we were such great partners and producing partners, 280 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: because we were both bitter enders. We will work until 281 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: we were bloody and bloody crossing the finish line. We 282 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: cared about it being as perfect as possible. But he 283 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: loved that girl and he loved those stories. And I 284 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: think when you were that interested and curious about when 285 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: you're a writer like that, it just makes the writing 286 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: that much richer. So King's the head writer, and he's 287 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: a guy with an eye and an ear towards women's stories. 288 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: Was the writing staff a lot of women or was 289 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: mostly women. The top of each season, they would meet 290 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: in a writing room Los Angeles, where a lot of 291 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: them lived at Michael Patrick's you know, home base was 292 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: when he wasn't you know, shooting our show, and every 293 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: now and then a fellow would come along and he 294 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: would sit in the writing room. I think at the top, 295 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: you know, when they're breaking story and just um kind 296 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: of give a perspective that was important for people to 297 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,880 Speaker 1: be familiar with because there was such a strong female sensibility, 298 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: and a couple of scripts were written by men. We 299 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: had one young man for a while, but they weren't 300 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 1: as consistent year to year as as our women were. 301 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: At what point was the teeny staff too very tiny 302 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: relative for television, considered quite small? Yeah, you know, at 303 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: some point the show becomes this huge hit, And at 304 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 1: what point in the process did they start to turn 305 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: to you and say, well, now you're a producer, Well, 306 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: now we're going to factor in your inborn When I 307 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: first met with Darren, he said to me, why don't 308 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: you be a consulting producer on the show or consultant, 309 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: And I said, you know, he said it would be 310 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: good for you. You could learn about television, you could 311 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: learn about producing television. So I said, well, who would 312 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,719 Speaker 1: say no to an opportunity to learn? And so I 313 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: was very devoted to that idea. And second season they said, 314 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: do you want to start producing? And I did, and 315 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: I I said yes if they continued to let me learn, 316 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: and that sort of the understanding was that I kind 317 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: of laid out was up. I would only contribute if 318 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: and when I thought I had something valuable to say. Really, 319 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:06,159 Speaker 1: it was an opportunity for me to now sit and 320 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: be more part of the conversation and learn about producing. 321 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: And I just did and loved it and loved it. 322 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: And one aspect of that that I comes to mind 323 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: for me, is it in your career prior to this, 324 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,919 Speaker 1: number one on the call sheet is a guy and 325 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 1: you're the girl. So Nick Cage approves you, and Bruce No, 326 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: I was hired before Nick. What I mean? But for 327 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: many times in your career you're the girl, and now 328 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 1: you're number one of the call sheet and you get 329 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: to decide who the men are that are coming in 330 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: the door. How did that work with you? You know? 331 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: I mean you have like kind of um tastes and 332 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: you react in ways that you didn't even know you 333 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: would I would have no feelings about certain names, and 334 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 1: and Michael would have feelings. And that was, you know, 335 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: sometimes hard because he would write it so he imagined things, 336 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 1: and so I couldn't argue with what what he saw 337 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: in his head. My problem was that I knew what 338 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: I was going to have to do on screen with them, 339 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 1: and I think there's something very interesting about that which 340 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: is hard to explain to people. But you and I 341 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: can get into it now. So you know, when they've 342 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: given you somebody to play opposite, and everybody wanted them 343 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: but you because what and what you know, I would 344 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: allow it under dress when someone's holding me down and saying, 345 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: you have to trust me, you have to trust me. 346 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: I know you haven't seen this out of this person. 347 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: I think he or she can do is perfect for 348 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: this part of your boyfriend. So what I think it's 349 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: hard to explain to these people, right the Senate that 350 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: believes in their choice, is that you know what they 351 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: won't bring, and you know what you will then have 352 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: to do is tell the story for two people on camera. 353 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 1: And I think what's really really dangerous about that is 354 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: you end up projecting onto the other person what you 355 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: wish they were bringing into the scene. And what I 356 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 1: think happens is you become a bad actor. You overacting. 357 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: You try to create chemistry and romance and love and 358 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: you imbue the scene with everything, and you can't because 359 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: when you feel it, even if you're not in love 360 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 1: with this person. I've worked with countless actors who I'm 361 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: not in love with them. I really mean it. But 362 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: I love working with them and I can. I don't 363 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: care what they look like, smell like, where they come from, 364 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,359 Speaker 1: who they are, how tall, how short, if they're smart 365 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: and interesting and talented. I do not the greatest act 366 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: it's but then this is the weird part, right, This 367 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: is the fork in the road, is that I don't 368 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: need to I don't even care if I don't want 369 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: to have sex with them. You just want to feel 370 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: some friction, some kind of exciting sword player love, some 371 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 1: capturing of something I did street carent Name Desire with 372 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: Amy Madigan and Amy Madigan's real Antiochley flinty cow girl. 373 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: Usually this really kind of tough little girl. And I 374 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: loved Amy every night. I was in love with her, 375 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: and I've got to have that some feeling. It's just 376 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: so wonderful, to have that, and when you don't, it's 377 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: it's a kind of hard work. What would you do? 378 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,160 Speaker 1: I would be you know, it would be very hard 379 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: and earn your money that week. I guess, so, I mean, 380 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know. I think it would be hard, 381 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: and it would be a different kind of hard work. 382 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: Like I would work so hard on that show. I 383 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: worked hours. I would do a hundred hundred ten hour weeks. 384 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: I didn't care this kind of hard work shows. It 385 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 1: made me a bad actor because I would try to 386 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,960 Speaker 1: keep it alive and around for both parties. And I 387 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: think it makes you over animated, surface and fake and 388 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: it's just awful, and it would upset me and it 389 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: would make me pouty. It's really bizarrely hard. It was 390 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: not hard for Sarah Jessica Parker to work with Chris Noah, 391 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: who played Mr. Big on Sex in the City. She'll 392 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: talk about their collaboration in a moment. I would never 393 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: have predicted that we would have become that close. Take 394 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: a listen to our archives if you want to hear 395 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: other conversations with longtime New Yorkers, like the late Elaine 396 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: Stretch about a month ago, I really said, I want 397 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: out of here. I want out of New York. I 398 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: shouldn't live in New York anymore. It's not for me anymore. 399 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: It's too fast for me. Or no, it's not too fast. 400 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: And I changed my mind about that. It's not this, 401 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: it's not that, it's just not for me. Take a 402 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: listen at Here's the Thing dot org. This is Alec 403 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Sex in 404 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: the City centered around the girls, but it was Carrie 405 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: Bradshaw's love life that was the main focus, and it 406 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 1: was her on again, off again relationship with Mr Big 407 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 1: that fans could not get enough of. Have you got 408 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 1: a smoke? I quit? Oh? We always used to share 409 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 1: a cigarette together. We did a lot of things that 410 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: were bad for me together. Chris not played Big, and 411 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: he was there from the very first episode. I knew 412 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: Chris and uh so we did this table read and 413 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 1: I knew. After the table read, I thought, Wow, this 414 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: could be good, This carry Big thing could be really good. 415 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: And my greatest concern was that I was going to 416 00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 1: appear like a twinkie, that he was so earthbound and 417 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: so so masculine, so virile and um kind of truculent 418 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 1: and that I was going to my voice would somehow 419 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: go up, you know, two octaves higher. And um, but 420 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: I loved the story. I said, oh this is good. 421 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: The last you know, these last three four lines of 422 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: the script were perfect. And um, but he but he 423 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: is a so so special and we'll get back to 424 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: the girls in a second, or the women, I should say, 425 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: But since we got on to Chris, you know, the 426 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: thing that surprised me most about Chris was, um, how 427 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: I would never have predicted that we would have become 428 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: that close, that he and I would have become so 429 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: reliant upon one another, that it would be my job 430 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: to take care of him on more than you know, 431 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: four or five, six dozen occasions, that I was really 432 00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: responsible for keeping him happy, that I could negotiate his 433 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: worst moments and and bring him out of them. That 434 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 1: that was that he was my charge in some way. 435 00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: I love fellow actor and always and wouldn't have wanted 436 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: to see anybody else do it play it, um and 437 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: all these people we meet and you can have love 438 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: with them. And Tony Hopkins, I did a movie. I mean, 439 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: I can't tell you, like every day I was around 440 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 1: and I was like Oh my god, I want to 441 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: enjoy every minute this. So I mean he's I won't 442 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 1: be doing this forever, you know. And it's funny because 443 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: you just can't maintain those relationships. It's such a lesson 444 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,439 Speaker 1: to learn when you're first starting out and you're on 445 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: a movie set and it's all done and everybody goes home, 446 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: and you think, these are the people I'm going to 447 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: know for the rest of my life, and you know, 448 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: write long letters and longhand and and page after page 449 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: of you know, the documentation of your day and friendships 450 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: and yeah, the lake house would be nice and um. 451 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: But the truth is someone said, if you leave and 452 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 1: you stay in touch with one person from a job, 453 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: that's like a miracle. You know, people just go on 454 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: and um. So these relationships are are funny and very unusual, 455 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: and therefore I think more special because they are this 456 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: kind of um finite little and how we have to 457 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 1: pick up where we left off. I'd be in an 458 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,919 Speaker 1: award show and I'd see someone go, oh my god, Cynthia, 459 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: hug Cynthia, kiss Cynthia. My daughter would say, when was 460 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: the last time you saw I go, I don't know, 461 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: three years ago. You got to just pick up right 462 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: where you left, the gypsy kind of transient thing. I 463 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: call them the girls because I once to joke with 464 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: Christen that the four of you were like the Beatles. Actually, 465 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: any quartet I compared to the Beatles. You all had 466 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: distinct personalities and distinct idiosyncrasies, and even the imperfections were 467 00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:56,479 Speaker 1: kind of perfect too, because we were all really different 468 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: and and we had to figure it out and create 469 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: friendships on screen, you know, kind of prematurely before it 470 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: meant anything in our real lives. You know how you 471 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 1: kind of go backwards. You know, there's a whole history 472 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: that brought these women together, and we eventually caught up 473 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: with our characters. Basically, Um, we were together for ten 474 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 1: eleven years telling these stories, and you know, by the end, 475 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: the kind of feelings that we had for one another, 476 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: we're like what we were doing on screen. It was 477 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: very weird, and it took a long time to figure 478 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: out who we are with one another. But I remember 479 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: sitting in Morocco for the last movie. We all had trailers, 480 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: but we preferred to share a hotel room, and I thought, Wow, 481 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: this is um, this is the best it could be. 482 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: Kim might be lying down for a minute, or Cynthia's 483 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: lying down and I'm reading a book or eating some 484 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: some eating something more likely and not, and we're all 485 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 1: just in a room, completely comfortable, the very thing you 486 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 1: hope for in romance. You're like, I just want to 487 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: get to that time with this fellow where I can 488 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: eat in front of him, or where I can just 489 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 1: read a book and I don't I'm not worried about 490 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: entertaining him or And that's where we were as women 491 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,479 Speaker 1: and friends and fellow actors, and a lot had been 492 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,760 Speaker 1: written that was untrue and it had been painful for 493 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: all of us, and we've been all through it. We 494 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,719 Speaker 1: had traveled to this other side together and without trying 495 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: that hard, because you can't really try that hard in 496 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 1: real relations, Like you can't focus it that way, you 497 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: can't be that result oriented because there are people, they're human. 498 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: You know, what are you gonna do? You can't force it. 499 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: But I really thought at that moment, Wow, like if 500 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: this is it, this is the best, this is the best, 501 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 1: and honest and just wave it's I always tell people 502 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: it's like that moment in West Side Story when he 503 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: says to her at the dance he says, you're not lying, 504 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: are you? And she said, I have not yet learned 505 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: to lie about such things. Oh yeah, and it has 506 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: to be those people. Yeah, you know, I have a 507 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: very strange metaphysical feeling about those. Like McCartney said to 508 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: me about the Beatles, he said, everyone was pressuring them 509 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: to hire the guy that was the best drummer in London. 510 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: And the guy came and played a few tracks for them, 511 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: and they didn't really like him very much. And Ringo 512 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: Star was off fulfillming other commitments he had to other 513 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: bands and he was associated with, and he came back 514 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: to record with them, and they all said, it's got 515 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: to be him, or we're not doing it anymore. It 516 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: has to be us four now for you. Well, the 517 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: fifth Beatle for you guys, was the designer who was UM. Well, 518 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: there was a toss up. Was it was it the 519 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: City of New York or was it Pat Field? The 520 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 1: clothes were such a huge Yeah, the clothes were Was 521 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: that presented to you you upfront that she was going to 522 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: become this style master. Actually we brought her in after 523 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,719 Speaker 1: the pilot because she had designed Um. She had designed 524 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,120 Speaker 1: Miami Rapsody, a movie I shot with David Frankel that 525 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: he wrote and directed in Miami. We knew we were 526 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,400 Speaker 1: going to um rehire the costume design, and he said 527 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: Pat Field, and I was like, of course, it's Pat 528 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: of course. And I had loved working with her, like 529 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: fallen in love she had. Remember when I went to 530 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,680 Speaker 1: n y U. She had a very very idiosyncratic boutique 531 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: on eight Street which was still open, and I did 532 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: had many meetings with her there. And only later, well 533 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: into this life of the series or even the movie, 534 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 1: did did she have to leave that It was the 535 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: landlord forced her out after all those years, I think 536 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: thirty some years. There she with you, all the seasons 537 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: of the show, all the seasons and the movies. And 538 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 1: at what point does it come to you? Do you 539 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: become We're really kind of getting further and further untethered 540 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: from the mothership here of fashion, because obviously wore a 541 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: lot of very stylized clothing. Well, she she would have 542 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: always told the story the same way, no matter what 543 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: I think, the only difference being that in the very 544 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: beginning we couldn't get our hands on anything. Nobody wanted 545 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 1: to give us a thing, nobody, And we had a 546 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: teeny teeny teeny. We talk about in Emick. We had 547 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: a tiny, tiny budget for the whole per episode, and 548 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: so that's why I wore so many thrift clothes from 549 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: thrift stops, and that was the only way to fulfill, 550 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: you know, something unique. So so she was very clever. 551 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: Thrift stores by necessity, thrift stores by necessity. We went 552 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: to some rental houses in Miami, in New York, she 553 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: had apartment in Miami, she had resources in Miami and 554 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: frankly all over and we just pulled and pulled and pulled. 555 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: And it was about I think towards the end of 556 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: the second or even the beginning of third season, I 557 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: can't remember which. Someone will correct me that it was 558 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: Fendi that loaned us a baguette, and that was like 559 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: the gateway. That was, you know, the floodwaters. Everything shifted. 560 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: We were able to get our hands on pieces that 561 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: could help us tell the story maybe a little bit 562 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: more clearly. That so the woman who starred in the 563 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: show that had a that wore thrift store closed because 564 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: you had a thrift store budget for the show. As 565 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: soon as Sex in the City really started to conquetize 566 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: in the culture, and Maureen Dowdalls. Do you have people 567 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: coming to you going, we're gonna do this and this 568 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: and this and this. How are we going to monetize 569 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: or did all of it come to you slowly? I 570 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: think the world was really different than so all of 571 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: that didn't really exist in the same way. I wanted 572 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: to do a fragrance and that it was that that 573 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: was mine. I long dreamed of doing a fragrance for 574 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: lots of reasons. I won't warri your listeners with so 575 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: I actually eventually had the courage to say this to somebody. 576 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 1: But this was in the days before actors were doing it. 577 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: There was one. There was the great Elizabeth Taylor signature 578 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,239 Speaker 1: Fragrance White Diamonds, and really wasn't And Jennifer Lopez had 579 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: very been really smart about business and fragrance business in particular. 580 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,120 Speaker 1: But all of that stuff, anything that came to me 581 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: because of the show, I was super vigilant about not 582 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: doing what was easy just because it was lucrative. I 583 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: mean that's always a great challenge. Yeah, not be ingredient. 584 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: What is the real connection to it? And I would 585 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 1: have had them name a donut after me, a Duncan 586 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: Donuts if they would have written me a seven figure 587 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,840 Speaker 1: I'm not like you. You have a lot of integrity 588 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 1: and sex. And the Carrie Bradshaw is this iconic figure me. 589 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: I would have let them name like a tie with 590 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: whales on it after me at Brooks Brothers. Well, that 591 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: would have been actually really cute. Actually that's a word 592 00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,240 Speaker 1: for it. That's a connection that isn't so ridiculous. Actually 593 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: I was ready to cash in. I was ready, let's 594 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: let's have a Jack Donaghee. I wasn't right, okay, but 595 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: but you've remember thirty Rock came after. But the time 596 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 1: thirty Rock was on the air and the time you're 597 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: talking about people presenting you with crazy opportunities, the world 598 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: had shifted. When Garnier came to me Tina's now that 599 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: spokes first and four and said to me, we want 600 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: you to do hair care commercials. I was like and 601 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: and actually this actor who I adored and admired and 602 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: thought like hung the moon and I will not say 603 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: his name, Sad just said to me, well, you know 604 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: you're being really smart. At least you're not doing hair 605 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: care commercials. And then they came to me with this 606 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: crazy offer and I said no, immediately, No, because this 607 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: actor I admired said to me, well, at least you're 608 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 1: not well version an American version of Colin Firth. Let's 609 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: put it that way. And then I said to Kenny Lonergan, 610 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: who's my husband's best friend, I said, you know the 611 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: top of this? An ex actor said no, he said 612 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 1: are you? Are you? And I was like, is it 613 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,759 Speaker 1: too late to collect? I not? Wasn't practiced that. Do 614 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: you actually pick up the phone and say I've been thinking? 615 00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: So I called Richard love It and I said I've 616 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: made this. I think this grave error and he said, 617 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: oh was interesting? Is it interesting how you go from 618 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:44,959 Speaker 1: talking people out of hiring you talking them back into 619 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: high You come full circle? Sarah Jessica Parker fill circle? 620 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 1: Is you calling up the fructist people saying I fructiasted 621 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: up here? Yeah? Exactly. Anyway, they were nice and um 622 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 1: forgiving and but I want to talk to you about 623 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: um Is it kind of not ruined? But does it 624 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: affect you? Does it? Because I think it does? It 625 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: can't Does it affect you in terms of um acting 626 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: and acts? To be married to? Who you're married to, 627 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: who's so talented and so polished and so smart, and 628 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: so elegant, and do you sit there sometimes and go 629 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: I always have an image of you, like lying and 630 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,240 Speaker 1: there with your husband's very romantic Woody Allen movie images. 631 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: You're in bed and you have especially squeezed grapefruit juice 632 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 1: in the times who squeezed it? And your son, of course, 633 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: his parents are start the paper ironed gers butler, of 634 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: course by a butler named James, Wilkie James, that juice 635 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: isn't gonna walk over here by itself, son, And you're 636 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: in bed, and the sun brings you the tray to 637 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: keep start trotting, as they say, and he brings you 638 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: the juice, and you're sitting there and your husband and 639 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: you were just giving each other notes about scripts, and 640 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 1: don't you don't want to work with it? Who do 641 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: they want you to work with? No? No, no, no, 642 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 1: you really can. I mean, I'm so flatter, do you you? 643 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 1: I actually picture that in other people's lives, and perhaps 644 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: even yours, but including yours, would be a physical class 645 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: of some sort of yeah. Um no, I mean we 646 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: don't have that kind of leisure time. And no, none 647 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,040 Speaker 1: of that has ever happened, although I will say there 648 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: was a time before we had children. Do you remember 649 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: that where we would sleep? I mean, do you remember 650 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: not being in bed with us? But do you remember 651 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: that time before you had children where you were I'm 652 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 1: trying to envision being in bed with you? Go, go go. 653 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,280 Speaker 1: You woke up like eleven, You're like crack of twelve. 654 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: It's eleven and eight and um. Then you would get 655 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,720 Speaker 1: the paper and you would sit with someone you liked 656 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 1: or loved hopefully, and you would read and you talk 657 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: about coffee and put another log on the fire, Go 658 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: to cinema the village and watch a movie. Yeah, go 659 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: to you know, film forum, or go to Chinatown on Sunday's. Um, 660 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,879 Speaker 1: you know all of that. I'm so glad we did that, though, 661 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: you know, as much as I think, wow, that was 662 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 1: sometimes I miss it a lot. At least you did it. 663 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: You did it. One thing I always never ceased to 664 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: amaze me was that in my single days, when I 665 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: was married, got divorced, I was single for several years, 666 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,560 Speaker 1: and whenever I would date women, regardless of whether they 667 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: had law degrees, they worked in biotech, whatever they were doing, 668 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: we would talk about their television viewing and they would say, well, 669 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 1: I don't watch television, don't real enough time to telesion. 670 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I think you can disconnecting my cable. Well, 671 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,800 Speaker 1: I watched Sex in the City. That's storytelling, that's the writing, 672 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:27,680 Speaker 1: that's the stories we got to tell. We were just 673 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:33,760 Speaker 1: the repository. We were the lucky enough series. Again. Um, 674 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: I used to say never. Now I think would they 675 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,400 Speaker 1: let me do six or eight episodes if I could 676 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: do it the way I like to do things, which 677 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: is splitting the atoms the bitter ender and still be 678 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: a good parent and wife. Yeah, I think I would. 679 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 1: You know, it's just about timing and choices. Now that 680 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: I have kids, that's the thing. But it's you know, 681 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: like Strasburg says in The Godfather, this is the life 682 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: that we've chosen. It's a dream. Really. Sarah Jessica Parker. 683 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: Coming up, I talk with another legendary New Yorker whose 684 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,720 Speaker 1: job makes dreams come true for others. He opened Studio 685 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: fifty four in the late nineties seventies and many boutique 686 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: hotels and condominiums since then. The nightclub does. Your primary 687 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,720 Speaker 1: goal is to look after people, make sure people have fun, 688 00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: elevate the experience, make them comfortable, same going all tops, 689 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: same going, you know, and so there is a common 690 00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: denominated there were differences in it, you know, like the 691 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: people that work in the nightclub business. Most of the 692 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 1: time they look like vampires in the day. Ian Schraeger 693 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,760 Speaker 1: describes his years in the nightclub business. Next, you're listening 694 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:55,399 Speaker 1: to Here's the Thing. This is Alec Baldwin and you're 695 00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: listening to Here's the Thing. Come with me as I 696 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 1: take you back to the nineteen seventies. The Vietnam War 697 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: was over, the AIDS epidemic had not yet begun, and 698 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 1: one night club will forever symbolize the glamor and debauchery 699 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: of the time. If you managed to get through the 700 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,400 Speaker 1: doors of Studio fifty four, you'd find yourself among the 701 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:25,720 Speaker 1: biggest stars of the day. Warhole, Liza Minnelli, Calvin Klein, Share, 702 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: Mick Jagger. The midtown Manhattan hotspot was the epicenter of 703 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:37,800 Speaker 1: sexual experimentation, drug culture, and yes, true disco fever. Ian 704 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: Schraeger opened the studio nine seven. He had started out 705 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,719 Speaker 1: as a lawyer, but that didn't last long. I got 706 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 1: bored by it, so I wanted to nightclub business. I 707 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: read an interview where you said you were driving by 708 00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: and you saw people lined up out in front of 709 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,319 Speaker 1: a club, and you thought, that looks like a good 710 00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: business to me. Yeah. I mean, do you remember what 711 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: club le j Dan where it was one? It was 712 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,799 Speaker 1: on forty third Street between um sixth Avenue and Broadway. 713 00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 1: At that time, the whole social millennium was being set 714 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: by gay clubs, not blacks, the way it is now 715 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: and the way it was before then. But then it 716 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,839 Speaker 1: was gay because everything was just emerging sexually, and if 717 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 1: you had a successful gay club, you were trying to 718 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: keep all the straight people out because once the straight 719 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: people came to gay people left. And that was one 720 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: of the first clubs that I call a fusion club 721 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: that they're really It was gay, and it had that 722 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: kind of sexual electricity in the air that gay clubs at. 723 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,840 Speaker 1: But there was a lot of straight people there and 724 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: and there were people waiting in lines, and all these 725 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,359 Speaker 1: straight people were being insulted and tried to be turned 726 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: away because everybody just wanted to get in there. That 727 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: was a business I wanted to get into because you 728 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: were giving nothing, offering nothing, and people are paying to 729 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: get in now. For people my generation, when I say 730 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 1: your name, all you have to do is say uh 731 00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,640 Speaker 1: Ian and Steve, and people will know who the Steve 732 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,280 Speaker 1: is for for those who don't know in our listening audience, 733 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 1: Steve Rebel, who was your the late Steve Rebel? Who 734 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,880 Speaker 1: was your partner? How did you hook up with him? 735 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,279 Speaker 1: And how did you meet him? We both worn in 736 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: Brooklyn and different they were Jason neighborhood, but you know, 737 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,440 Speaker 1: different school districts. We didn't know each other. Middle class Brooklyn. 738 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 1: You know, his his dad was a mailman, his mother 739 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: was a teacher. We went up to school. He was 740 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,600 Speaker 1: a few years older than I. He was up in Syracuse, 741 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,120 Speaker 1: and we just became fast friends from from when we 742 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,160 Speaker 1: when we met. You know, I left after four years. 743 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: He stayed on because it was the Vietnam War. Everybody 744 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: was trying to stay in school. And and when he 745 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: ultimately came back to New York, you know, we stayed 746 00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 1: friends obviously, and and and I represented him. He went 747 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 1: into the state business taching, like for five dollars you 748 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,000 Speaker 1: could have all the steak and beer you wanted. And 749 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,319 Speaker 1: he went into the restaurant own. Yeah, what was it 750 00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: called steakloft stick. It's like unsuccessful undercap for people who 751 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: want to go have steake and soho saft and so uh. 752 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,279 Speaker 1: And I represented him, keeping the credits off his back 753 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 1: because it was on the capitalized And then it was 754 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: during that time that I saw like the nightclub thing 755 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: was just emerging. When it was kind of shifting away 756 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 1: from you know, going into a nightclub and trying to 757 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 1: meet people and meet girls and it was pick up 758 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,359 Speaker 1: places and things like that. It was kind of evolving 759 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,040 Speaker 1: into it like a gay club kind of scene where 760 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,879 Speaker 1: it was serious, sweaty dancing, you know, and and and 761 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: that's the kind of club that I liked. What was 762 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,200 Speaker 1: the other places that were the top clubs? Then you 763 00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,480 Speaker 1: guys opened Palladium a couple of years later, and that 764 00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:47,000 Speaker 1: on fourteen Street when we opened up, when we when 765 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,759 Speaker 1: we had Studio fifty four, there was a kind of uh, 766 00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,520 Speaker 1: there was a place called Zeno with a knockoff. Knockoff 767 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,360 Speaker 1: was where you went because you couldn't get into the 768 00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: studio exactly you said it. Yeah, but but there was 769 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: some some great, great, great great gay places. Flamingo, very creative, 770 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 1: twelve West. Uh. This is a cliche obviously, but when 771 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,879 Speaker 1: the early eighties roll around, did aids kill that culture today. 772 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,839 Speaker 1: It's uh, it didn't kill it, but it change things 773 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 1: because all of a sudden, before age, there wasn't anything 774 00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:28,320 Speaker 1: you couldn't do at night and went up there. It 775 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 1: was carefree, It was different things. Things, things were different. 776 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: But but I think the nightclub business got killed not 777 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: because of age, but but but because I think government 778 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: when they started to regulate it, it became so expensive 779 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,800 Speaker 1: to do a nightclub to comply with all that. What 780 00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: you said that we're a nightclub. To open it up, 781 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,960 Speaker 1: of course to you, tens of thousands of dollars, now 782 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 1: somebody a million because of why because if it was 783 00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: because of exists and things like that. So all of 784 00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: a sudden, young people didn't franchise. I did my personal 785 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 1: club for twenty seven dollars. You know, you didn't have 786 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:03,719 Speaker 1: to know anything, You didn't have to have a lot 787 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,840 Speaker 1: of money. It was like you roll up the carpet, 788 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:07,320 Speaker 1: you put on a record player when you have a 789 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 1: nightclub and did that stopped? That kind of raw energy stopped. 790 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:14,360 Speaker 1: That happened in rock and roll, and it happened with 791 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,040 Speaker 1: technology too, when appleca invented in the garage and so 792 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: it changed. The business evolved and so young people can't 793 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 1: do it anymore. And that's why now in the nightclub business, 794 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,239 Speaker 1: nobody owns anything anymore. They have promoters going around from 795 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 1: clubs to clubs because it's just too expensive. When you 796 00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: and Rubel decided to go into business, what did you 797 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,759 Speaker 1: think he brought to the table and what did he 798 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: think you broke to the Was it kind of in 799 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,000 Speaker 1: front of the house, back of the house battery? No, 800 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:40,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't that simple. It's just like with a husband 801 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 1: and a wife, nobody really knows what goes on except 802 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: the husband and a wife. With partners, you're not going 803 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 1: to say a fifty percent with someone that's not making 804 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:54,279 Speaker 1: a fifty percent constitution. You know. They weren't mutual exclusive 805 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,440 Speaker 1: fears of influence. I mean, he was more of the 806 00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,320 Speaker 1: people person and I was more of the creative person. 807 00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:01,799 Speaker 1: You know. But but like, for instance, I might be 808 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:03,879 Speaker 1: in the nightclub and I would see Steve go get 809 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 1: friendly with Austin over there, you know, And if I 810 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,319 Speaker 1: was wanting to do something, I would go to Steve 811 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 1: and he'd be like my instant one man sample serve 812 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,080 Speaker 1: act that he had had good instincts and and and 813 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: it's just so funny that the vision of responsibility happened naturally. 814 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,399 Speaker 1: You know. We we had a we had a first 815 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 1: nightclub was in Queens, which was about six months before 816 00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,880 Speaker 1: studio and got killed by Son of Sam. I remember 817 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,399 Speaker 1: the first night we opened, Steve went to hang out 818 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,160 Speaker 1: with the kids at the bar and Queen's and I 819 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: went up into the d J booth the play with 820 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: the lights. It just kind of happened. And that club 821 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,080 Speaker 1: was called What Enchanted Garden, and then that died after 822 00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:43,640 Speaker 1: the Son of Sam shops. It was hard to get 823 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,400 Speaker 1: people to come in to a nightclub when someone was 824 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,320 Speaker 1: out there killing it on the streets in parked cars. Yeah. Now, 825 00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,440 Speaker 1: when you open up the studio and you were you 826 00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:55,480 Speaker 1: married at the time, when you come to your first wife, 827 00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,160 Speaker 1: how soon after studio now for quite a while, so 828 00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,000 Speaker 1: you could live that for none of different. Boy, But 829 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 1: you were letting somebody down, crawling in the door at 830 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:06,759 Speaker 1: eight o'clock in the morning, so it was long night's view. 831 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,879 Speaker 1: You were in it. You weren't somebody who was turned 832 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:11,719 Speaker 1: into somebody and blowing them a kissing Sam, I'm going 833 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,440 Speaker 1: home and you were in bed by one o'clock. No, 834 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: but Steve used to say he stayed too long and 835 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,400 Speaker 1: I left too early. You know what would really happen 836 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,839 Speaker 1: is I stay two one, two o'clock till the night 837 00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 1: to thirty, sometimes until the night turned the corner and 838 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,320 Speaker 1: I knew it was stable, and then I would grab 839 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: somebody and go home. Now back stairs, Now, back then, 840 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,080 Speaker 1: is it safe to say? Another risk of businesses back 841 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:39,319 Speaker 1: then with the credit cards were not that big back 842 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,600 Speaker 1: in the late It's a cash business. And ultimately that 843 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:44,080 Speaker 1: was part of the problem, was that it was a 844 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,200 Speaker 1: cash We didn't have any money. You know, there was 845 00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:49,520 Speaker 1: a movie once was to Good, The Brents Robbery, and 846 00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,920 Speaker 1: after they robbed the truck and they were in the room, 847 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:53,799 Speaker 1: they're throwing the money up in the air. Was one 848 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,680 Speaker 1: of the scenes in the movie touched the way it 849 00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,000 Speaker 1: was with Steve and I. We didn't have any money. 850 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,480 Speaker 1: All of a sudden we were the toast the town 851 00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,719 Speaker 1: and all this money was coming in and it was 852 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,200 Speaker 1: it was, you know, like you couldn't believe it, right, 853 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,200 Speaker 1: it wasn't. We went in and we we weren't motivated 854 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,719 Speaker 1: by the money. It was just the kind of byproduct 855 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,400 Speaker 1: to kind and I'm trying, I'm trying to be generous 856 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,320 Speaker 1: here insofar as that when you get yourself into trouble 857 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,759 Speaker 1: with taxes and so forth and eventually led to some 858 00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:23,600 Speaker 1: tough consequences. Was it did you find that there was 859 00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,759 Speaker 1: more difficult back in the day when things weren't computerized 860 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:28,560 Speaker 1: and things weren't credit cards and you have to handle 861 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,200 Speaker 1: that much cash. We were the gang that couldn't shoot straight. 862 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 1: You know, we were just it was kind of very 863 00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 1: spontaneous and impulsive. It was like a kind of silly, 864 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,759 Speaker 1: stupid thing. Everybody in the whole world knew what was 865 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 1: going on, and you weren't the only ones. Well, I mean, 866 00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:50,480 Speaker 1: I know this has been brought up to you added 867 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,800 Speaker 1: infinitum about going to prison. You're you're there for thirteen months, 868 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,280 Speaker 1: and where did you go? We were in the mcc 869 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 1: here for six months, and then we were in Montgomery, 870 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,640 Speaker 1: Alabama for six months. So you say, we who's we 871 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,279 Speaker 1: Steve and I so you get to see him pretty regularly. Yeah, 872 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,480 Speaker 1: what was that like? Oh, it's the worst. I mean, 873 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: you know, we were the only one that was guilty. 874 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: Nobody else and jail was guilty. Uh, it was. It 875 00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,680 Speaker 1: was terrible. I mean, you know, like even I mean 876 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,000 Speaker 1: if I would take you and put you in the 877 00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,400 Speaker 1: grandest suite in the grandest hotel for a year and 878 00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,000 Speaker 1: let you have room service, it's still gonna hate it. Yeah, 879 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,520 Speaker 1: maybe it's just you you arrived, you are robbed of 880 00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,040 Speaker 1: your discretion as a human being a terrible What got 881 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,040 Speaker 1: you through that? I mean, you're young, so you're still 882 00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:39,440 Speaker 1: pretty tough. But what did you keep telling yourself to 883 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,239 Speaker 1: keep yourself together? You know? Uh, we would read a 884 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,480 Speaker 1: lot and dream a lot. It was a very very 885 00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,120 Speaker 1: tough thing. Being with Steve made it a little bit easier, 886 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,600 Speaker 1: you know, someone who could understand. Yeah, I mean, and 887 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,279 Speaker 1: someone I mean when you're in there with a lot 888 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,879 Speaker 1: of psychopaths, and and and it's just it's just kind 889 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,759 Speaker 1: of difficult. Life cheap, and you know, and and and 890 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,000 Speaker 1: it was just a very difficult thing. And you know, 891 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,759 Speaker 1: you you try and not let them rob you of 892 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:12,040 Speaker 1: your enthusiasm for life and your verb for life. You know, 893 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,480 Speaker 1: you know when you succeeded at that, So by the 894 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,160 Speaker 1: time you're ready to get out of there, by the 895 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:20,040 Speaker 1: time were you both released at the same time, And 896 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,040 Speaker 1: when at the same time we released the same time, 897 00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:23,799 Speaker 1: we went to a halfway house here and I think 898 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: it was in on seventy something and on the website, 899 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,480 Speaker 1: and you were there for how long? Three months? And 900 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,600 Speaker 1: then you're free, right, And when you were even then 901 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,319 Speaker 1: very tentative and very you know, very tentative, couldn't even 902 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 1: open a bank account. It was kind of re entry 903 00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,880 Speaker 1: and it's tough. So three months you're done with the 904 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,440 Speaker 1: halfway house. So what does the team of Schraeger and Rebel, 905 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:52,560 Speaker 1: what's the first thing that comes to hotel hotel? Why? 906 00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,560 Speaker 1: You know, when we were in jail, first of all, 907 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,560 Speaker 1: I was reading all these great books, you know, you 908 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:01,800 Speaker 1: know David Applestram, you know, the best and the brightest, 909 00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 1: and you know, and and which was a kind of 910 00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 1: study of the rise of the media empire, and and 911 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,160 Speaker 1: and in there there's a lot of those guys had 912 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:14,480 Speaker 1: interludes in their life the war, and and and after 913 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,719 Speaker 1: those interlude they all did game changing switches in their lives, 914 00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,359 Speaker 1: and one open to different directions. Well, you know, the 915 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,839 Speaker 1: Bill Pilly decided to do do CBS after the war, and 916 00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:28,440 Speaker 1: the New York Times up the anti and so are intoludlespost. 917 00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,920 Speaker 1: But but that's when when Harry Helmsley and and and 918 00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:38,200 Speaker 1: Donald Trump. The newspapers were playing up this big rivalry. Uh, 919 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,000 Speaker 1: Harry Helmsley was doing a hotel and fifty one to 920 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,479 Speaker 1: Madison that was called the Palace, and Donald was doing 921 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:48,799 Speaker 1: the one on on Street and they were playing up 922 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,720 Speaker 1: the rivalry and that kind of rivalry, and the papers 923 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:53,759 Speaker 1: sucked me in, boy, and I said, well, we can 924 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: do a better hotel than than both of them. And 925 00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,120 Speaker 1: when you say better hotel, weren't you're actually doing just 926 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,120 Speaker 1: a completely different hotel. They're doing big, are they? Is 927 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,239 Speaker 1: it safe to say they're still doing the old style? 928 00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:09,640 Speaker 1: And you wanted to do what we liked. We went 929 00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,680 Speaker 1: to a hotel that was that that that it wasn't 930 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,000 Speaker 1: rocket science, was just what kind of hold we did 931 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,359 Speaker 1: a club we liked, and and and and we want 932 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,879 Speaker 1: to do a hotel that manifested who we were all 933 00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,120 Speaker 1: popular culture and not my parents, but but but but 934 00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:29,560 Speaker 1: what we liked. So no rules start from scratch. And 935 00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,480 Speaker 1: the Morgan was the first hotel and that was on 936 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,399 Speaker 1: what street A thirty eight and Madison and so when 937 00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,400 Speaker 1: and why that property good story. When we sold Studio 938 00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 1: fifty four, we took back promisory notes. You know, it 939 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,319 Speaker 1: took a very meager down payment and promissory notes, and 940 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,200 Speaker 1: we were helping the person run the clubs. We get 941 00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:51,960 Speaker 1: a promisory notes paid well, he couldn't pay the promisory notes. 942 00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:54,120 Speaker 1: So when he couldn't pay the promisory notes, we traded 943 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,440 Speaker 1: his promisory note for his interest in at which happened 944 00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,360 Speaker 1: to be Morgan's. And so it was. It was a 945 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,160 Speaker 1: hotel before. It wasn't like a private mansion or something before. 946 00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:06,440 Speaker 1: What had it been before? It was hotel? It was 947 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 1: a dump. It was called executive hotel, and it was 948 00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,719 Speaker 1: a dumpy hotel looming house, you know, you know, in 949 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,759 Speaker 1: a kind of very many floors, uh fourteen. And you 950 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:18,480 Speaker 1: took it over. You just hand gratted the whole thing. 951 00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,640 Speaker 1: I read, did the whole thing. We we we We 952 00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:26,040 Speaker 1: didn't bang on the walls because once you start doing 953 00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,560 Speaker 1: that in an old building, you can't have a definitive budget. 954 00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:32,000 Speaker 1: So you know, the rooms are very small. So we 955 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,319 Speaker 1: took the rooms the way we found them, and we 956 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,560 Speaker 1: try to have good design, come up with solutions, and 957 00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 1: we did a lot a lot of tricks. You know. 958 00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,520 Speaker 1: We made the furniture, always scaled the furniture down ten 959 00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,480 Speaker 1: percent to make the room feel bigger and etcetera, etcetera. 960 00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,880 Speaker 1: And it was a natural hit. Light to a studio 961 00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,359 Speaker 1: was a natural hit. It just it resonated with people 962 00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,880 Speaker 1: to day one and we were Now, So after you 963 00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:57,600 Speaker 1: do the Morgan, do you find now that people are 964 00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,920 Speaker 1: taking you seriously because they are trying to squeeze you 965 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,399 Speaker 1: when they're intersonly just just recently, you know when when 966 00:53:04,760 --> 00:53:10,080 Speaker 1: W came out. Up until then, it was still thought 967 00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,680 Speaker 1: of that only people who wear black and live in 968 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:18,319 Speaker 1: Soho come to my hotels. It wasn't until W came out, 969 00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,319 Speaker 1: you know, whenever that was it was a while ago 970 00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:26,480 Speaker 1: that it gave real credibility. Hey, this is a real idea. 971 00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:31,160 Speaker 1: Now there isn't a hotel company in the world that 972 00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:34,040 Speaker 1: doesn't want to do a boutique hotel. And it's the 973 00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,800 Speaker 1: fastest growing segment. There are thousands and thousands of versions 974 00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,719 Speaker 1: all over. But it was treated with absolute skepticism and 975 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,080 Speaker 1: dismissively by by because you know why, they couldn't he 976 00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,440 Speaker 1: couldn't put it in the box. They couldn't understand what 977 00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:51,040 Speaker 1: it was. Uh So, do you find that the major 978 00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,400 Speaker 1: hotel companies not only want you because you're doing additions 979 00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,520 Speaker 1: now is that with Marriott and that you're partnering with 980 00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,919 Speaker 1: Marriott to do this addition series. It's it's a style 981 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,279 Speaker 1: of hotel you're gonna do with them. Do you find 982 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,800 Speaker 1: out with that that you wouldn't call that a bouktique hotel? 983 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,839 Speaker 1: I would? You? Would? You know? Like to me, I 984 00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:09,840 Speaker 1: you know, because it's so over you. Steve is the 985 00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,680 Speaker 1: one that came up with the name boutique. By the way, 986 00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,200 Speaker 1: because we were in New York. The fashion business is 987 00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:19,279 Speaker 1: probably a central most important business here and uh, and 988 00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,080 Speaker 1: when he was trying to explain to people what we 989 00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,719 Speaker 1: were trying to do, he said, look, all the other 990 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:26,680 Speaker 1: hotels are like the Popping Scores. They try and be 991 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,640 Speaker 1: all things to all people. That's kind of generic. We 992 00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:33,400 Speaker 1: have a specific thing to say, were very specific of 993 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:37,000 Speaker 1: a specific attitude, will like a boutique. And that was 994 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,160 Speaker 1: the invention and the use of that name, which we've 995 00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,680 Speaker 1: lost ownership of. It become part of the English language. 996 00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,239 Speaker 1: But Steve really was the first one to use that 997 00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:49,640 Speaker 1: when he tried to when when we were promoting Morgans 998 00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:51,080 Speaker 1: and we're trying to explain to people what we were 999 00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:54,600 Speaker 1: trying to do. Were you closer through bell. Yes, where 1000 00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:57,480 Speaker 1: were you when he died? By his bed? You were 1001 00:54:57,760 --> 00:54:59,759 Speaker 1: so you were still that close right to the end. 1002 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,160 Speaker 1: You were best friends with him, and you were there 1003 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,719 Speaker 1: he We took him to the hospital. We watched the 1004 00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:14,719 Speaker 1: monitor numbers sink. He died in nineteen nine. Who's been 1005 00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:18,120 Speaker 1: your mentor or who's been your trusted advisor for the 1006 00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,359 Speaker 1: last five years? You know, by myself now, you don't 1007 00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:25,040 Speaker 1: have my wife, you know, and have some good friends, 1008 00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:28,040 Speaker 1: but you know that it's it's a it's a lost 1009 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,560 Speaker 1: when you're by yourself. You know, it's good to have 1010 00:55:30,719 --> 00:55:33,680 Speaker 1: somebody to bounce things off of. It. It keeps the 1011 00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:39,000 Speaker 1: moral compistrated. It almost operates like a conscience. You know, 1012 00:55:39,120 --> 00:55:42,080 Speaker 1: it's it's tough. You know, I'm by myself now, don't 1013 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,520 Speaker 1: You don't have a partner. Who's you someone you consulted? 1014 00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,200 Speaker 1: You don't have friends that I asked questions, but no 1015 00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,759 Speaker 1: one replaced rebel. No, you never have a friend or 1016 00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:56,480 Speaker 1: a bottle like that. Lucky to have that, Ian Schraeger, 1017 00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,120 Speaker 1: And at least for now, he hasn't returned to his 1018 00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:04,320 Speaker 1: own geographical roots. You know, I came from Brooklyn. My 1019 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,239 Speaker 1: my dream was to come and be in Manhattan. Now 1020 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,879 Speaker 1: everybody to Manhattan, and everybody's dream is to go back 1021 00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,319 Speaker 1: to Brooklyn. Did you did you repredict that was possible? Dad? 1022 00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,160 Speaker 1: I had no idea, You had no idea? And did you? 1023 00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:16,600 Speaker 1: Did you? I mean, I hate to see use this 1024 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,480 Speaker 1: kind of slang with did you get it on that? 1025 00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:20,560 Speaker 1: Did you? Did you head out to Brooklyn Queen's in 1026 00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,240 Speaker 1: a timely way to develop? Did you develop? I totally 1027 00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,560 Speaker 1: missed it because I thought I left. I had never 1028 00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,480 Speaker 1: gone back, but I I But you know, it's so 1029 00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:30,920 Speaker 1: funny the way these things happened every generation. That's what 1030 00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,000 Speaker 1: happened to Brooklyn hundred fifty years ago, and well women 1031 00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:35,960 Speaker 1: started to go to go over there. You got two 1032 00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,520 Speaker 1: crowded here, what's two expensive? People went to Brooklyn's happening 1033 00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:44,399 Speaker 1: again and for now without Ian Schrager's imprint. We'll see 1034 00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:49,839 Speaker 1: how long that lasts. This is Alec Baldwin and you're 1035 00:56:49,880 --> 00:57:00,760 Speaker 1: listening to here's the thing you unt