1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: And you're here. Thanks for choosing the iHeartRadio and Coast 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: to Ghost Day and Paranormal Podcast Network. Your quest for 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, and the unexplained ends here. 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: They invite you to enjoy all our shows we have 5 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: on this network, and right now, let's start with Chase 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: of the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain. 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 2: Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts and 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 2: opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and opinions 9 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 2: only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, Coast 10 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 2: to Coast, AM employees of Premiere Networks, or their sponsors 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 2: and associates. We would like to encourage you to do 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 2: your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. 13 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: Hi. 14 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, I've been 15 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 2: on a journey to prove the existence of life after death. 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: On each episode, we'll discuss the reasons we now know 17 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: that our loved ones have survived physical debt and so 18 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 2: will we Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. When we 19 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: talk about the afterlife, we talk about faith, we talk 20 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: about hope, We talk about the grief we have in 21 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 2: our hearts. When we lose someone we love. But today 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 2: I want to talk about logic, the things that can't 23 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 2: be explained by luck, by guessing, or even by reading 24 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 2: someone's mind. Today we're going to revisit our friends at 25 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 2: the Bigelow Institute for Consciousness Studies who held that massive contest, 26 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 2: and we'll discuss two more of the prize winning essays. 27 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: As you remember, the challenge was to write an essay 28 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 2: that proves, using logic and evidence, that the human soul 29 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: survives death. The website Bigelowinstitute dot org has all of 30 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: the full essays available if you wish to do some 31 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 2: great reading. In the past, we shared the top three 32 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: prize winning episodes, but today I'm going to introduce you 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 2: to two of the runner ups, although I hate to 34 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 2: call them that because their work is really great, each 35 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 2: one fifty thousand for their research. One is doctor Julie Bishel, 36 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 2: a brilliant scientist who tests mediums using strict conditions. The 37 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: other is doctor Stephen Browdie, a philosopher and former president 38 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 2: of the Parapsychological Association. We'll start off with doctor Browdie's 39 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: work with some rather ghost like stories to start, but 40 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: they're incredibly fascinating. Here's a story about a dinner party 41 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 2: in Iceland, a board medium and a very rude, uninvited 42 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: guest named Runky. So imagine if you will. You are 43 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: in Reikiavik, Iceland, in the year nineteen thirty seven. It's 44 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 2: a dark, cold winter's night. A group of friends have 45 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 2: gathered at a house for a seance. Now these aren't 46 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 2: people who are grieving, and they're not crying over law 47 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: loved ones. They are just curious people. They have a 48 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: medium there named Hafstein Bijornsen. The seance begins and for 49 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: a while it's pretty standard. The medium goes into a trance. 50 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: The control spirit comes through. Everyone is polite, but suddenly 51 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 2: the energy in the room changes. The medium's voice changes. 52 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: It becomes rough, angry and confused. A new spirit has 53 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: pushed his way into the circle. He doesn't introduce himself nicely. 54 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 2: He demands to know where he is. He says his 55 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: leg hurts. He's shouting about being wet and cold. The 56 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 2: people in the room ask who are you? The spirit grumbles. 57 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 2: He says his name is Runolfer Runolfsen, but everyone calls 58 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 2: him Runky. Now the people in the room look at 59 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 2: each other. They whisper, do you know a Runky? No? 60 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 2: Do you Nobody knows this guy. They ask him more questions. Runky, 61 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: when did you die? He says in the year eighteen 62 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 2: seventy nine, that was nearly sixty years before this seance. 63 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 2: He says he was fifty two years old. He says 64 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: he died by drowning while he was walking home. He 65 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 2: says he had been drinking a little too much and 66 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,799 Speaker 2: that he fell asleep on the beach and the tide 67 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,679 Speaker 2: came in and took him. And then he says something 68 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 2: very specific. He says, I was a tall man, very tall. 69 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: So the seance ends, the medium wakes up. Everyone is confused, 70 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 2: who was this angry, wet fisherman. Now this is the 71 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 2: part where a skeptical mind jumps in and can say, oh, 72 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 2: the medium was just reading the mind and one of 73 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 2: the people in the room must be telepathy. Or they 74 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 2: say the medium just researched a local story to trick 75 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 2: the sitters. But doctor Browdie points out why this case 76 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 2: is so important because nobody knew who Runky was. The 77 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 2: sitters didn't know him, the medium didn't know him. The 78 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: people at the seance were so curious that they decided 79 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: to play detective. They went to the National Archives in Iceland. 80 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: They started digging through old parish records from the nineteenth 81 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: century and guess what they found. In the records for 82 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 2: the year eighteen seventy nine, there was a death certificate 83 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,600 Speaker 2: for a man named Runolfer Runolfson. He was a laborer. 84 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: He was fifty two years old. He was known to 85 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 2: be a heavy drinker and the cause of death drowning. 86 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,559 Speaker 2: His body was found on the sand where the tide 87 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: had come in. But there is one thing missing. Remember 88 00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 2: how Runky bragged about being very tall. The records didn't 89 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 2: say anything about his height, so the researchers dug deeper. 90 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 2: They found his old bones. They actually located where he 91 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 2: was buried, and because it was an unmarked grave, they 92 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 2: had permission to measure the remains. They measured the femur, 93 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 2: the thigh bone, and based on the bone calculation, Runkie 94 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 2: stood well over six feet tall in Iceland in eighteen 95 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 2: seventy nine. That was a giant. So this man from 96 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 2: the seance was exactly who he said to be. Why 97 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 2: does doctor Browdie, a philosopher, a man of logic, love 98 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,799 Speaker 2: this story so much because it destroys the super psi theory. 99 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 2: Supersigh is the idea that mediums are just super psychic 100 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 2: spies who steal information from living brains. But in the 101 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: case of Runky, there was no living brain to steal from. 102 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: The people in the room didn't know the guy. The 103 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 2: only person who knew the combination of Runky plus drowning 104 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: plus tall plus fifty two years old was Runky himself. 105 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 2: This is what is called a drop in communicator. It's 106 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 2: like somebody crashing a party. He didn't come because someone 107 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 2: called him. He came because he saw a bright light 108 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 2: like an open door, and he wanted someone to listen 109 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 2: about his wet leg. It's funny, isn't it, think of 110 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 2: the afterlife as angels and harps. But doctor Browdie reminds 111 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 2: us that if we survived death, we take ourselves with us. 112 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 2: If you were a grumpy fisherman in life, you might 113 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 2: be a grumpy fisherman in the afterlife, well at least 114 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: for a little while. But Ronkie was just a guest. 115 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: He dropped in and then he left. But what happens 116 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 2: when his spirit drops in and decides to move in? 117 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 2: I have another story for you from doctor Browdie's essay 118 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: One That's not just about facts, It's about obsession. It's 119 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: the story of a man named Frederick Thompson. Now, Frederick 120 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: Thompson was not a medium. He wasn't a psychic. He 121 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: was a goldsmith living in New York City in the 122 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 2: early nineteen hundreds. He was a practical man who worked 123 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 2: with his hands. He had no interest in painting. He 124 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 2: had no formal training in art, aside from a few 125 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 2: lessons as a schoolboy. But in the summer of nineteen 126 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: oh five, something strange began to happen to Frederick. He 127 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,119 Speaker 2: started to feel a compulsion. It was like an itch 128 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: that he couldn't scratch. He suddenly felt an overwhelming urge 129 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: to paint pictures. And not just any pictures. He felt 130 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 2: driven to paint landscapes, misty, moody scenes of winds swept 131 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 2: trees and marshes. He tried to ignore it, but when 132 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 2: he did, the urge just got stronger. It started to 133 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: take over his life. He would neglect his work. He 134 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,119 Speaker 2: would drift off into a dream like state and find 135 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 2: himself sketching for hours. He told his wife, I feel 136 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: like I am someone else. Specifically, he felt like he 137 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 2: was a man named Robert Swain Gifford. Now get this. 138 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 2: Robert Swain Gifford was an American landscape painter, but Frederick 139 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 2: didn't know him personally. So Frederick went to an art 140 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 2: exhibition in January nineteen oh six where he learned the truth. 141 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 2: Robert Swain Gifford had died exactly one year earlier, right 142 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 2: before Frederick's painting obsession began. Frederick stood in that gallery 143 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 2: staring at a painting by this dead artist, and suddenly 144 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 2: he heard a voice. It wasn't in his head, it 145 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 2: sounded like it was right next to his ear. The 146 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 2: voice said, you see what I have done? Can you 147 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 2: not take up and finish my work? Frederick was terrified. 148 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 2: He thought he was losing his mind. He went to 149 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: see a famous researcher named James Highslop. He said, help me, 150 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 2: I am being haunted by a painter. Highslop was a skeptic, 151 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 2: so he decided to test this. He took Frederick's sketches, 152 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 2: the ones he had drawn into trance, and showed them 153 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,320 Speaker 2: to art critics who knew Gifford's work. The critics were stunned. 154 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 2: They said, this is most definitely Gifford's style. This is 155 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 2: his brushwork. This captures his misty atmosphere exactly. So remember, 156 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 2: Frederick was a goldsmith. He didn't know how to paint 157 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 2: like a master, but somehow he was channeling the specific 158 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: talent of a dead man. The story gets crazier. Frederick 159 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: kept having visions of a specific group of old, gnarled trees, 160 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 2: and he painted them over and over and over again. 161 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 2: He didn't know where they were, he just knew they 162 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 2: were real. Finally, following an urge, he traveled to the 163 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: coast of Massachusetts. He took a boat to a tiny 164 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 2: place called Nashon Island. He walked across the island like 165 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 2: he was being guided by an invisible GPS, and there, 166 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 2: standing on the hill were those exact trees, same ones 167 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 2: from his visions and the same ones that were in 168 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: his paintings. He sat down to sketch them, his hand shaking, 169 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: and while he was drawing, he heard the voice again. 170 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 2: The voice said, look on the far side of the trees. 171 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:54,599 Speaker 2: Frederick stood up. He walked to the other side of 172 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 2: the old oaks. He looked closely at the bark, and there, 173 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 2: carved into the woods were the initials RSG. Robert Swain Gifford, 174 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 2: and underneath the initials the date nineteen o two. Frederick 175 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 2: Thompson had found the secret spot where the dead artist 176 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 2: used to stand and paint. There was no map, there 177 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: was no guidebook, there was no Internet. The only way 178 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 2: Frederick could have known about those initials was if the 179 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 2: spirit of Robert Swain Gifford was standing right there beside him, 180 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 2: whispering in his ear, finished my work. Doctor Browdie calls 181 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: this the Thompson Gifford case, and he considers it one 182 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 2: of the most powerful pieces of evidence we have. Why 183 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 2: because it combines everything. It has skill. Frederick painted with 184 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: a talent he didn't possess. It has knowledge, Frederick found 185 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 2: a hidden location he had never visited, and it has 186 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: the motive. The dead artist wasn't ready to put down 187 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: his brush. He still had more beauty to create, so 188 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: he borrowed a pair of living hands to do it. 189 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 2: As I wrap up this first segment with you, think 190 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,319 Speaker 2: about Runky and Gifford. One was a simple fisherman who 191 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: wanted to complain about his leg. The other was a 192 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: brilliant artist who wanted to finish a masterpiece. They were 193 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: completely different people in life, but in death they proved 194 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 2: the same thing. We don't disappear. Our personality, our grumpiness, 195 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: our happiness, or our genius survives. And if the door 196 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 2: is left open, even a crack, we can still step 197 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 2: in and say I am still here. When we come 198 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: back from the break, I'm going to share another one 199 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: of doctor Browdie's favorite cases, and you'll meet a man 200 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: who died in nineteen fifty but came back thirty years 201 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: later to play a game of chess against a living 202 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 2: grand master. And here's the thing. The medium didn't even 203 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 2: know how to play chess. So we'll be right back. 204 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 2: You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on the iHeart 205 00:12:54,920 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 2: Radio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome 206 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 2: back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sanders Champlain. Doctor 207 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 2: Stephen Browdie, in his Bigelow Institute contest essay says, you 208 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,199 Speaker 2: can't fake a skill. You cannot accidentally start speaking fluent 209 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 2: French if you didn't know the language, and you certainly 210 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 2: cannot accidentally play chess at the level of a grand master. 211 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: I want to tell you the next story. It's the 212 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: story of a chess game. But this wasn't just any game. 213 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 2: This was a match that lasted seven years, and it 214 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 2: was played across two countries, and one of the players 215 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 2: had been dead for thirty four years. The story began 216 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 2: with a man named doctor Wolfgang Eisenbeiss. He was a 217 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: Swiss researcher who wanted to test this exact question, can 218 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 2: a high level intellectual skill survive death. He didn't want 219 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 2: a ghost who could just tap the table once for 220 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 2: yes and twice for no. He wanted to know if 221 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 2: an afterlife friend could think, so he set up an experiment. 222 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: He found a medium named Robert Rawlins. Now this is important. 223 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 2: Robert Rollins did not play chess. He knew the basic moves, 224 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 2: but he had no strategy. He was a complete novice. 225 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 2: Then doctor Eisenbeiss needed an opponent. He managed to recruit 226 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 2: one of the greatest chess players alive at the time, 227 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 2: Victor Korchnoi. I don't follow chess, I have to be honest, 228 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: but if you do, you'll know that name. Korchnoi was 229 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 2: a legend. He was a Soviet defector, a brilliant strategist, 230 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 2: and he was ranked as one of the top players 231 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 2: in the world. He was a grand master, which is 232 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 2: the highest title a chess player can achieve. So doctor 233 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 2: Eisenbeiss had a medium who knew nothing about chess and 234 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 2: a living legend who knew everything. Now he needed a 235 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 2: participant from the afterlife. Through the medium, Doctor Eisenbeiss reached 236 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 2: out to the spirit world. He asked if there was 237 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: a deceased grand master who would be willing to play 238 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 2: a game against Victor Korchnoi. After a while, a spirit 239 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 2: came forward. He introduced himself as Gaza Marazzi. Gaza Marazzi 240 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,280 Speaker 2: was a Hungarian grand master who had ranked the third 241 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 2: best player in the world back in the year nineteen 242 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 2: hundred and he had died in nineteen fifty one. So 243 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 2: the game began. The setup was simple. Victor Korchnoi, the 244 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 2: living player, would make a move on his board in Switzerland. 245 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 2: Doctor Eisenby would send that move to the medium. The medium, 246 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 2: Robert Rollins, would go into a trance. The spirit of 247 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 2: a Marazzi would communicate the counter move, usually through what's 248 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: called automatic writing, So the medium would write down something 249 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 2: like pawn to King four. Then that move would be 250 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 2: sent back to Korchnoi. Because of the difficulty of the mediumship. 251 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: Sometimes it took days, sometimes it took weeks to exchange 252 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 2: a single move. For seven years and eight months, this 253 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 2: ghost versus grand master battle raged on. Korchnoi told the 254 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 2: researchers that the opponent was not playing modern chess. You 255 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 2: see chess evolves. The strategies used in the nineteen nineties 256 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 2: are different from the strategies used in the eighteen nineties. 257 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 2: Kortchnoui said, this player is using the Marazzi bind. That 258 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,440 Speaker 2: is a specific defensive strategy that Gaysa Marazzi invented in 259 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 2: the early n nineteen hundreds. It relies on slow, careful 260 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 2: maneuvering rather than aggressive attacks. Korchnoi said it felt like 261 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 2: playing a ghost from history. The style was old fashioned, elegant, 262 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 2: and incredibly strong. In fact, this ghost played so well 263 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: that he actually beat Korchnoi. In the early stages of 264 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 2: the game, the living legend was losing to a dead one. Eventually, 265 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 2: after forty seven moves, the game ended Victor Korchnoi won, 266 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 2: but just barely. He admitted that he had to play 267 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 2: his absolute and highest best to beat this spirit. When 268 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 2: asked about it, Korchnoi said I was playing against a 269 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 2: grand master. There is no doubt. Now let's bring this 270 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 2: back to doctor Stephen Browdie. Why does he include this 271 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 2: story in his fifty thousand dollars winning essay, Well, because 272 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 2: it destroys the skeptic's favorite argument, which is SUPERSI again 273 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 2: supersized the idea that the medium isn't talking to the dead, 274 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 2: but it's just using super telepathy to steal information from 275 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 2: living people. So let's apply that logic to the chess game. 276 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,800 Speaker 2: If the medium Robert Rollins was faking this, how could 277 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 2: he do it. He didn't know chess. So to fake 278 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: a grand master level game, the medium would have to 279 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,360 Speaker 2: one use telepathy to scan the entire world to find 280 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 2: a living chess expert, two telepathically show that expert the 281 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 2: current board position, three telepathically extract the best move from 282 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 2: that expert's brain. And if this all wasn't impossible enough, 283 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 2: he would have to make sure that he was playing 284 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 2: the exact outdated style of playing chess of a Hungarian 285 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 2: man from nineteen hundred. Doctor Browdie argues that this is 286 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 2: crippling complexity. It's like saying a child who has never 287 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 2: taken a piano life sat down and played a perfect 288 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 2: Mozart concerto. By telepathically borrowing the skills of a concert 289 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 2: pianist in the next town doesn't make sense, and it 290 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,479 Speaker 2: doesn't happen. A skill like this requires a mind. It 291 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 2: requires active thinking. It requires looking at the chess board, 292 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 2: analyzing the trap, and planning five steps ahead. You cannot 293 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 2: fake thinking. The fact that forty seven moves were played 294 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 2: over seven years with a consistent, identifiable personality and style 295 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 2: proves the mind of Gaza Marazzi was still intact. He 296 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 2: was still thinking, he was still strategizing, and he was 297 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 2: still competitive. But the chess case isn't the only one. 298 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,959 Speaker 2: Doctor Browdie shares one more story in his essay that 299 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 2: involves music. I want to introduce you to a woman 300 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 2: known in the research simply as Missus B. Missus B 301 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 2: was a simple woman living in the American Midwest. She 302 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 2: had an elementary school education. She had never traveled, She 303 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 2: had no interest in classical music. She preferred her church hymns, 304 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 2: and she certainly didn't speak any foreign languages. But one 305 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 2: day a researcher sent her a watch. He didn't tell 306 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 2: her who it belonged to. He just mailed it to 307 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 2: her and asked her what she picked up from it. 308 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 2: Missus B held the watch, went into a trance like state, 309 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 2: and suddenly her voice changed. She started speaking with a 310 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: heavy Scandinavian accent, and then she started speaking a language 311 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 2: that nobody in the room understood. They recorded it and 312 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:56,200 Speaker 2: sent it to a linguist. It was finish, fluent, perfect finish. 313 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 2: Missus B claimed that she was channeling spirit of Junis 314 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 2: cocanan a famous Finnish composer who had recently died. Now remember, 315 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 2: missus B is a housewife in the Midwest. She doesn't 316 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 2: have a passport, she doesn't have a library card. But 317 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,479 Speaker 2: for the next year she channeled this man. And it 318 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 2: wasn't just that she spoke his language. She possessed his 319 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 2: musical genius. In one session, the spirit of Cocanin said 320 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 2: he wanted to finish a piece of music that he 321 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: had been working on when he died, a piano quintet. 322 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 2: Missus B, who couldn't read music, grabbed a pen and 323 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 2: started scribbling musical notation. She wrote out the final bars 324 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: of the quintet that he had started. Then she told 325 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 2: the researchers to send it to a specific man in Finland, 326 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 2: a colleague of Cocanan's named ALUs Salinin. She said he 327 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 2: has the original score, tell him this is the ending. 328 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 2: The researchers tracked down this colleague. He did have the 329 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 2: unfinished score, and when he looked at what Missus B 330 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 2: had written, he was stunned. It matched the style, the key, 331 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 2: and the complexity of the dead composer perfectly. But the 332 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 2: spirit wasn't done. He wanted to gossip. He started talking 333 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 2: about his other musician friends. He critiqued their performances. In 334 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 2: one session, he talked about a specific recording of his 335 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 2: cello concerto. He debated which version was better, the one 336 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 2: on his record label or the Finlandia label. So to 337 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 2: fake this, Missus B would have needed to learn finish. 338 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 2: She would have needed to study advanced music theory. She 339 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 2: would have needed to memorize obscure record labels from a 340 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 2: country she had never visited. And she would have needed 341 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 2: to do all of this while pretending to be a 342 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 2: simple housewife. Doctor Browdie asks us, is it more likely 343 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 2: that Missus B was a secret genius, a linguist, and 344 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 2: a mass or spy who fooled everyone for years, or 345 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 2: was it more likely that Coconin was simply still Junis Coconin. 346 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 2: These two cases, the Chess game and the finished Composer, 347 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,239 Speaker 2: are what we call ideal cases. Doctor Browdie says they 348 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: are the cases that make the skeptics go quiet, because 349 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 2: you can explain a feather or a flickering light, but 350 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 2: you cannot explain away a symphony, and you cannot explain 351 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 2: away a checkmate. Doctor Browdie uses these cases to show 352 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 2: us that survival isn't just about memories. It's about what 353 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,199 Speaker 2: he calls agency. When we die, we don't just become 354 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 2: a recording of our past. We remain active agents. We 355 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 2: can still learn, we can still create, we can still play. 356 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: Think about what that means for your loved ones. If 357 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 2: your father was a carpenter, he still knows how to build. 358 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 2: If your daughter loved to dance, she's still dancing in heaven. 359 00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 2: The machinery of the brain might be gone, but the operator, 360 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 2: the one who actually possesses the skill, is still right there. 361 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 2: The Maranci chess case and the Missus b case are 362 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 2: what doctor Browdie calls ideal cases. It's a case where 363 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,919 Speaker 2: the unusual suspects things like fraud or hidden memory don't 364 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 2: just fit. The only explanation that makes sense is the 365 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 2: simplest one. The grand Master didn't die, he just moved 366 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 2: to a different table. The composer didn't die, he just 367 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 2: found a new instrument. So we've looked at the logical 368 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 2: side of the coin. We've heard the philosopher's argument, and 369 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 2: I'm sure you might be saying, Sandra, I love your stories, 370 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 2: but I want science. I want data. I want to 371 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 2: see what happens when mediums are put under a microscope. 372 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 2: Well you're in luck, my friend, because next we're going 373 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 2: to talk about the other fifty thousand dollars prize winner, 374 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 2: doctor Julie Bischel. She's the director of research at the 375 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 2: Windbridge Institute, and she doesn't deal and goes stories. She 376 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 2: deals in data. When we come back, I'm going to 377 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 2: tell you about the Windbridge Protocol, a scientific test so 378 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 2: rigorous and so controlled that it makes cheating absolutely impossible. 379 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 2: And in the middle of it all our spirit friends 380 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 2: still come through. You're going to hear exactly how they 381 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 2: did it and why it proves their survival of consciousness 382 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,199 Speaker 2: will be right back. You're listening to shades of the 383 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 2: Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 384 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 2: Podcast Network. Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm 385 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 2: Sandra Champlain. We've been taking a little time travel today, 386 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 2: visiting a sciance in Iceland in nineteen thirty seven and 387 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: a chess game in nineteen eighty five. And these stories 388 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,399 Speaker 2: tell us the philosophy of survival, that our consciousness goes 389 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 2: on into the afterlife. But if you want something that 390 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 2: can be measured, this next part is for you. I'd 391 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 2: like to introduce you to the work of another runner 392 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 2: up of the Bigelow Institute contest. Her name is doctor 393 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 2: Julie Bischel, and she did not start out looking for 394 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 2: evidence of the afterlife. She started out as a materialist scientist. 395 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,679 Speaker 2: She has a PhD in pharmacology and toxicology with a 396 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:40,919 Speaker 2: minor in microbiology in immunology. In her words, her life 397 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 2: was about bugs and drugs. She studied bacteria, she studied chemicals. 398 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 2: She believed that when the brain dies, the person is gone. 399 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,280 Speaker 2: Then something happened happens to so many of us. Her 400 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 2: mom died, and not only did she die, but her 401 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 2: death was tragic and common implicated it was a suicide. Now, 402 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 2: Julie was a scientist, but of course she was also 403 00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:11,479 Speaker 2: a grieving daughter. She was saturated with science, as she 404 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 2: puts it, but she needed comfort, so reluctantly she agreed 405 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: to sit with the medium. She walked into that room 406 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 2: expecting nothing. She expected a cold reading, she expected vague guesses. Instead, 407 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: she got her mother. She said it felt normal, it 408 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 2: felt like talking to mom. But doctor Bishaal didn't just 409 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 2: cry and go home. She's a scientist, and her brain 410 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 2: lit up. She thought, if this is real, if information 411 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 2: is actually coming from a dead person, we should be 412 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 2: able to test it. And that's exactly what she did. 413 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 2: She gave up a promising career in mainstream science to 414 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 2: found the Windbridge Research Center, and she created something that 415 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 2: is now the gold standard of afterlife research. It's called 416 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 2: the Windbridge Protocol. Now we know skeptics like to debunk mediums. 417 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 2: I was one of them myself, and to be fair, 418 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 2: they have some good points. They say, oh, the medium 419 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 2: could be just reading your body language. That's a cold reading. 420 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: Or they say the medium looked you up on Facebook 421 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 2: before you arrived, and that's called a hot reading. Or 422 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 2: they say the medium is just phishing. They say a 423 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,479 Speaker 2: common name like John or a m name and you 424 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,239 Speaker 2: say mom. Doctor Bishall knows all of these tricks, so 425 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 2: she designed an experiment that makes every single one of 426 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 2: them impossible. Let me take you inside the Windbridge Lab. 427 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 2: Imagine you are a medium who has agreed to be tested. 428 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 2: You want to prove you are real. So here's what 429 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 2: you have to go through. It's called a quintuple blind study. 430 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 2: It means that there are five levels of blindfolds preventing 431 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 2: any cheating. Level one the absent sitter and a normal reading. 432 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 2: You sit across from the client. You can see if 433 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 2: they are crying, you can see their wedding ring. In 434 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 2: the Windbridge Lab, the sitter, the client is not in 435 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 2: the room. They aren't even in the building. They might 436 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,960 Speaker 2: be in New York while the medium is in Arizona, 437 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 2: so there's no body language to read. There's no facial 438 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 2: expression to see. Level two the blinded medium. The medium 439 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 2: is even told the name of the person they are 440 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 2: reading for. They are just told, we need you to 441 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 2: contact the deceased relative of subject number forty two. So 442 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 2: the medium cannot look them up on Facebook, they can't 443 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 2: google their name. They have absolutely no information. Starting out 444 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 2: level three the blinded interviewer. Now, the medium has to 445 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 2: talk to somebody, right, They need someone to say, okay, 446 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 2: what are you seeing? But doctor Bischel doesn't even let 447 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 2: the sitter be on the phone. Why because the sitter 448 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 2: might gasp, they might sigh, Their voice might give away 449 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 2: their age or their gender. So the medium talks to 450 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 2: a scientist. But the scientist doesn't know who the sitter 451 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 2: is either. So if the medium asks does this make sense, 452 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 2: the scientist of course has to say I don't know, 453 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 2: so there's no feedback. The medium is pretty much talking 454 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 2: to a blank wall. So level four is the blinded scoring. 455 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 2: Let's say the medium produces a transcript. They say, I 456 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 2: see a father. He loved fishing, he died of a 457 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 2: chest problem. He passed in October. Well, we have to 458 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 2: wait and see if that's accurate. No one can ask 459 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 2: the sitter does this fit? Because people have something called 460 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 2: confirmation bias. We humans, well, we tend to make things 461 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 2: fit because we want them to be true. So doctor 462 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 2: Bischel sends the sitter two transcripts. One is a reading 463 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: that has done for them. The other is a decoy 464 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 2: reading that was done for someone else. Entirely, the transcripts 465 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 2: are stripped of all names. They just say reading A 466 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 2: and reading B. The sitter has to read both and 467 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,880 Speaker 2: score them item by item. They have to verify every fact. 468 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 2: Only after they return the scores does doctor Bischel reveal 469 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 2: which one was meant for them. Level five the statistical lockdown. 470 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 2: Doctor Bischelt doesn't just look for good hits. She uses 471 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 2: complex statistics to calculate the possibility. If a medium gets 472 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 2: the name Bob, it's not very impressive, is it, because 473 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 2: there are lots of Bobs. But if the medium gets 474 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 2: the name Archibald or Maurice and the specific cause of 475 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 2: death like it was a hang gliding accident, and the 476 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 2: specific shared memory, the statistics go through the roof. So 477 00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 2: what happened when doctor Bischel ran this protoco well, she 478 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 2: tested twenty highly credentialed mediums. These mediums couldn't see here 479 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 2: or google anyone, and by all the laws of materialist science, 480 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 2: they should have failed. Their accuracy should have been fifty 481 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 2: to fifty if they were purely guessing. But that is 482 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 2: not what happened. Over and over again, the mediums chose 483 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 2: the correct reading. They produced specific accurate details about dead 484 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 2: people that they had never met. For living people, they 485 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 2: couldn't see. The odds of this happening by chance were 486 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 2: calculated to be less than one in a million. But 487 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 2: doctor Bischel didn't stop there. She wanted to know what 488 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,479 Speaker 2: it felt like. You see, there is a theory called 489 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 2: somatic sigh, which we talked about earlier, the idea that 490 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,719 Speaker 2: mediums aren't talking to the dead, but are reading the 491 00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 2: minds of the living via telepathy. So doctor Bishell a 492 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 2: new experiment called UVO three. She had her mediums do 493 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 2: two types of readings. First, they did a psychic reading 494 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 2: for a living person. Then they did a mediumship reading 495 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 2: for a deceased person. The mediums were blinded. They didn't 496 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 2: know which was which. They were just given a first name. 497 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 2: Doctor Bishel measured their physiological and emotional responses and she 498 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 2: found something incredible. She reported that when the mediums were 499 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 2: reading for the dead, they reported significantly higher levels of love. 500 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 2: They didn't just know facts. They felt an overwhelming sense 501 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 2: of connection, warmth, and expansion. When they were reading for 502 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 2: the living, well, it felt colder, It felt like they 503 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 2: were just looking at a book. But when they read 504 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 2: for the dead. It felt like seeing a play. It 505 00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 2: felt like a reunion. Doctor Bischel wrote a beautiful sentence 506 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 2: in her essay about this. She said, all the mediums 507 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 2: had was a first name, and dead people brought love 508 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 2: to the party. This is scientific proof of emotion. It 509 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 2: suggests that the signature of the afterlife isn't just information, 510 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,360 Speaker 2: it is love, feeling emotion. Now you might be thinking 511 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 2: is this new? Now you might be thinking, is this 512 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 2: kind of investigating new? Actually? Doctor Bischel is standing on 513 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 2: the shoulders of giants. And this brings us back to 514 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 2: doctor Browdie's essay because he highlights the grandmother of all 515 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 2: scientific mediumship cases. Her name was Leonora Piper. Missus Piper 516 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 2: was a medium in Boston in the late eighteen hundreds, 517 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 2: and just like the Windbridge mediums, she was tested by 518 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 2: the absolute best scientists of the day. Specifically, she was 519 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 2: tested by doctor Richard Hodgson. Now, Richard Hodgson was not 520 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,919 Speaker 2: a believer. He was known as a fraudbuster. He had 521 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 2: exposed fake mediums all over the world, and he came 522 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 2: to Boston specifically to expose Missus Piper. Doctor Browdie tells 523 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 2: us that Hodgson had detectives follow Missus Piper and her 524 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 2: husband for weeks. He wanted to see if they were 525 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 2: digging through people's trash, or looking at obituaries or talking 526 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 2: to servants. The detectives came back with nothing. Missus Piper 527 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 2: was just a simple housewife. She didn't research anyone. But 528 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,800 Speaker 2: Hodgson wasn't satisfied. He thought, maybe she has a network 529 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,719 Speaker 2: of spies in Boston. So he took her out of 530 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 2: her element. He put her on a boat and shipped 531 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 2: her all the way to England. She arrived in a 532 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 2: country where she knew no one. She stayed in a 533 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 2: stranger's house. Her luggage was searched, her mail was read. 534 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 2: And then Hodgson brought in strangers off the street, people 535 00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 2: she had never met, whose names she wasn't told. And 536 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 2: guess what happened. Missus Piper went into a trance, and 537 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 2: she started telling these strangers their deepest secrets. She told 538 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 2: them the names of their deceased children. She told them 539 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 2: about items in their pockets. She told them nicknames that 540 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 2: only their dead spouses knew. One of the most famous 541 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 2: scientists of all time, William James, the father of American psychology, 542 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 2: sat with her. He was a skeptic too, but after 543 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 2: watching Missus Piper work, he made a famous statement. He said, 544 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 2: if you wish to upset the law that all crows 545 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,720 Speaker 2: are black, it is enough if you prove one single 546 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 2: crow to be white. Missus Piper was his white crow. 547 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 2: She was the one exception that proved the rule was broken. 548 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,400 Speaker 2: So whether it is Missus Piper in eighteen ninety or 549 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 2: the Windbridge mediums in twenty twenty, the results are the same. 550 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 2: The controls are tight, the detectives are watching, the numbers 551 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 2: are crunched, and the answer is always the same. Our 552 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 2: loved ones are still here. So we've covered the logic, 553 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,399 Speaker 2: We've covered the data, we have covered the love. There's 554 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 2: one final piece of the puzzle for today. We have 555 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,640 Speaker 2: talked about spirit's visiting, but what happens when a spirit 556 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 2: moves in? When we come back for our final segment together, 557 00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 2: I'm going to share a story that doctor Stephen Browdie 558 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,120 Speaker 2: calls the perfect case for survival. It's the story of 559 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 2: a thirteen year old girl named Rancy Venom. One morning 560 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 2: she woke up, but Rancy wasn't there anymore. Instead, a 561 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 2: girl named Mary Roth, who had been dead for twelve years, 562 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 2: opened her eyes, and what she did next convinced an 563 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,359 Speaker 2: entire town that death is not the end. So don't 564 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 2: go anywhere. We'll be right back. You're listening to Shades 565 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 2: of the Afterlife on the iHeart Radio and Coast to 566 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:24,480 Speaker 2: Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. Welcome back to Shades of 567 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 2: the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain. Doctor Stephen Brownie calls this 568 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,040 Speaker 2: next story the Watsika Wonder and even though it happened 569 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 2: back in eighteen seventy eight, it remains one of the 570 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 2: most perfect untouchable cases in history. It takes place in 571 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 2: a small town called Watseka, Illinois. They lived a family 572 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,719 Speaker 2: called the Venoms. They had a daughter named Rancy now 573 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 2: Rancey was just thirteen years old. She was a normal, 574 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:56,839 Speaker 2: healthy girl until one day she started slipping into trances. 575 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 2: She would faint, she would wake up claiming that she 576 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 2: was someone else. Her parents were terrified, as you can imagine, 577 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,800 Speaker 2: They thought she was going insane. They were actually preparing 578 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 2: to send her to an asylum. But mediumship was big 579 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 2: back in those days, and a neighbor told them, wait 580 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 2: before you lock her up, take her to a spirit medium. 581 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 2: So they brought in a man. He sat with Rancy. 582 00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 2: He realized she wasn't crazy, she was just open to spirit. 583 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 2: He told Rancy, or the spirit inside her, that she 584 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 2: needed a guide. She needed a good spirit to take 585 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,720 Speaker 2: control and stabilize her. The voice coming out of Rancy said, 586 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 2: her name is Mary Roff. Now, the Venom family didn't 587 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,239 Speaker 2: know the Roff family very well. They lived on the 588 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 2: other side of the town, but everyone knew of them 589 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 2: because twelve years earlier, the Roths had lost their daughter, Mary, 590 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 2: Mary Roff had died at the age of eighteen. When 591 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,120 Speaker 2: Mary died, Rancy Venom was just a one year old baby. 592 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 2: They had never met, and Rancy knew nothing about her. 593 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,319 Speaker 2: But the next morning, the thirteen year old girl woke up. 594 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 2: She looked around the room and she said, where am I? 595 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 2: I want to go home. Her parents said, you are home, Rancy. 596 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 2: She said, I am not Rancy. My name is Mary Roff. Finally, 597 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,280 Speaker 2: the Rof family heard about this. Mary's mother and sister 598 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 2: decided to visit the Venom house to see this impostor. 599 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 2: As they walked up the path, Rancey, who was inside 600 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 2: looking out the window, started jumping up and down. She 601 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 2: screamed Here comes my Ma and my sister Nervi. Nervy 602 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 2: was the secret family nickname for Mary's sister Minerva. When 603 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 2: they came inside, the girl ran into their arms. She cried, 604 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 2: she hugged them. It wasn't the awkward hug of a stranger. 605 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,000 Speaker 2: It was the desperate, familiar hug of a daughter who 606 00:40:55,000 --> 00:41:00,080 Speaker 2: had been gone for twelve years. The Roths were definitely skeptical. Well, 607 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 2: they agreed to let this girl come and stay with 608 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,720 Speaker 2: them for a while. As they walked to the Roth house, 609 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 2: the girl didn't need directions. She knew exactly where they 610 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,359 Speaker 2: were going. When they got inside, she knew where everything was. 611 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,439 Speaker 2: She asked about an old velvet hat she used to wear. 612 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 2: The mother said, we don't have that anymore. The girl said, yes, 613 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 2: you do. It's in the attic, in a specific box. 614 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 2: They went to the attic, they opened the box and 615 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 2: there was the hat. So for the next three months, 616 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,840 Speaker 2: this girl lived as Mary Roth. She didn't just know facts. 617 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,479 Speaker 2: She knew people. Neighbors would walk by and she would 618 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,479 Speaker 2: wave and call them by their names. She would ask 619 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 2: about their kids. She would say things like, remember that 620 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 2: time we went on the sleigh ride. These were memories 621 00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,320 Speaker 2: from twenty years ago, long before Rancy Venom was even born. 622 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,239 Speaker 2: This girl loved the Roths. She treated them as her 623 00:41:56,280 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 2: true parents. She had zero interest in the Venom family 624 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,880 Speaker 2: for biological parents. When the Venoms came to visit, she 625 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 2: was polite but distant. She treated them like they were strangers. 626 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,600 Speaker 2: Doctor Browdie says the only explanation that fits the data 627 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,160 Speaker 2: is that Mary Roffs came back. She borrowed a body 628 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 2: so she could spend three more months with her parents 629 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 2: that she missed. Eventually, the time came for Mary to leave. 630 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,280 Speaker 2: She told her parents the Roths that Rancy was healed 631 00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 2: and ready to return. The goodbye was heartbreaking. She hugged them, 632 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 2: she promised them that death was not the end, and 633 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,800 Speaker 2: then she closed her eyes. When she opened them again, 634 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 2: she was Rancy. Of course, she didn't know where she was. 635 00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 2: She didn't know the Roths. She asked for her mother. 636 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,440 Speaker 2: The Watsika wonder it was over, but the proof remained. 637 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 2: With these old stories, it's easy for us to say, well, 638 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 2: that sounds good, Sandra, but it happened in the eighteen hundreds. 639 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 2: What about today? Can we prove that mediums are actually 640 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 2: feeling a spirit, not just imagining it. So let's bring 641 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:10,880 Speaker 2: doctor bischelback in the Windbridge Institute. One of the most 642 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,720 Speaker 2: interesting parts of her essay is when she talks about 643 00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,520 Speaker 2: the sensation of the correction. Again, she doesn't just test 644 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,480 Speaker 2: for accuracy. She interviewed her mediums about what it feels 645 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 2: like to talk to the dead versus what it feels 646 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,839 Speaker 2: like just to be psychic, and she wanted to know 647 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,520 Speaker 2: if it feels different bringing in a deceased loved one, 648 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 2: and the answer was a definite yes. One of her 649 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 2: Windbridge certified research mediums described the difference perfectly. She said 650 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 2: there is a heaviness around the sensation of living people, 651 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:49,960 Speaker 2: like air compared to helium. She explained that reading a 652 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:55,880 Speaker 2: living person feels dense or static, it feels grounded, but 653 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,520 Speaker 2: when she connects to a deceased person, it feels like helium. 654 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:04,520 Speaker 2: It's a floating sensation. It feels lighter, faster, and higher 655 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 2: in vibration. Another medium described it as a physical supercharge. 656 00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 2: She told doctor Bischel, physically, mediumship charges me up. It's 657 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,080 Speaker 2: like I've had eight cups of cappuccino. The physiology changes, 658 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,359 Speaker 2: the energy changes, and the emotion changes. Doctor Bischel found 659 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:28,880 Speaker 2: that mediums consistently report feeling deep love when talking to 660 00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 2: the dead, a love so strong it sometimes makes them 661 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 2: feel like they lose themselves. One medium said, I feel 662 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 2: like I don't know who I am anymore. I'm at 663 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 2: one with a spirit person. I'm part of their energy. So, 664 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,760 Speaker 2: whether it's Rancy Venom hugging her mother in eighteen seventy 665 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 2: eight or a modern medium feeling that loving helium buzz 666 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six, the evidence is consistent. There is 667 00:44:55,080 --> 00:45:00,319 Speaker 2: always a presence, and that presence brings love. We have 668 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 2: these incredible stories, we have the science, we have the sensations, 669 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 2: but does it count as proof? In her essay, doctor 670 00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,839 Speaker 2: Bischel moves away from the science lab and steps into 671 00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 2: the courtroom. She asks a very powerful question, what constitutes 672 00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:20,320 Speaker 2: proof in a criminal trial. You don't need one hundred 673 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,200 Speaker 2: percent absolute certainty. You can't travel back in time to 674 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 2: see the crime happen. What you need is proof beyond 675 00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,360 Speaker 2: a reasonable doubt. That is the standard we use to 676 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 2: make life and death decisions. Doctor Bischel actually interviewed one 677 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,240 Speaker 2: of her Winbridge certified research mediums, a woman named Tracy, 678 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,440 Speaker 2: who used to work in law enforcement. She knew the 679 00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,319 Speaker 2: legal system in sign and out. Doctor Bischell asked her, 680 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 2: based on the evidence the quintuple blind studies, the accuracy rates, 681 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,440 Speaker 2: and the impossibility of cheating, if this were a trial, 682 00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,879 Speaker 2: how would you vote. Tracy didn't hesitate, She said, where 683 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,920 Speaker 2: I presented this question in a courtroom, I would vote 684 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,359 Speaker 2: along with beyond a reasonable doubt. In court, you look 685 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 2: at the facts, You look at the reliability of the witnesses, 686 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,680 Speaker 2: you look at the impossibility of the alternative explanations. In 687 00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,200 Speaker 2: the case of the afterlife, the alternative explanations involve things 688 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,359 Speaker 2: like super telepathy that someone could read someone's mind and 689 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,920 Speaker 2: steal chess strategies from a living brain, or mass hallucinations 690 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,640 Speaker 2: that allow blind people to see. Doctor Bischel argues that 691 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:39,400 Speaker 2: these alternative explanations have become unreasonable. It is unreasonable to 692 00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,120 Speaker 2: believe that a housewife in the Midwest learned and spoke 693 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,919 Speaker 2: fluent Finish just to trick a researcher. It is unreasonable 694 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 2: to believe that a thirteen year old girl faked being 695 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,279 Speaker 2: someone else for three months without slipping up once. And 696 00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,440 Speaker 2: it is unreasonable to believe that twenty mediums in a 697 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 2: lab all guests the exact same details by chance. When 698 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,520 Speaker 2: the odds are one in a million. When the doubt 699 00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:13,200 Speaker 2: becomes unreasonable, the verdict must be guilty or in this case, alive. Yes, 700 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,240 Speaker 2: the dead are alive, we just can't see them. Doctor 701 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 2: Bischel concludes her essay with a powerful statement. She says 702 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:25,839 Speaker 2: that the scientific evidence she has collected meets, if not surpasses, 703 00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 2: what is required in a court of law. The most 704 00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:33,800 Speaker 2: logical explanation, the only explanation that fits all the facts, 705 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 2: is that human consciousness survives death. So, my friend, the 706 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,759 Speaker 2: jury is in. The verdict has been read. But here's 707 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,000 Speaker 2: the problem. The court of public opinion hasn't heard the 708 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 2: evidence yet. Most people in the world still think all 709 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,480 Speaker 2: this afterlife talk is just wishful thinking. They don't know 710 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,880 Speaker 2: about the Windbridge Protocol, they don't know about the Watsiko Wonder. 711 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:02,719 Speaker 2: They don't know that we're approaching almost three hundred episodes 712 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:06,359 Speaker 2: of Shades of the Afterlife, with so many stories from 713 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,319 Speaker 2: professional and incredible people. It's one of the reasons we 714 00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,440 Speaker 2: have a new film out called Evidence of the Afterlife, 715 00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:18,760 Speaker 2: Saving Evidential Mediumship. It's My Way, along with filmmaker Robert 716 00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,960 Speaker 2: Lyon and Mediums Carrie McLoud and Phil Dykes of taking 717 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 2: this courtroom verdict and putting it on the big screen. 718 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,319 Speaker 2: In the film, we take you inside the laboratory. We 719 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 2: show you the history. We show you the science that 720 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,240 Speaker 2: doctor Bischel and others have fought so hard to uncover. 721 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,000 Speaker 2: We show you why Mediumship is under attack and why 722 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 2: skeptics are trying so hard to bury it. Of course, 723 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,640 Speaker 2: we humans grieve, and I'm going to continue to give 724 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,239 Speaker 2: you every bit of information so that you know that 725 00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,400 Speaker 2: the afterlife is real. Your loved ones are still alive 726 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,320 Speaker 2: and you will see them again. So if you enjoyed 727 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:59,439 Speaker 2: this episode today, why not check out our film. There's 728 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,520 Speaker 2: a link to it on my main page at We 729 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:05,040 Speaker 2: Don'tdie dot com. Just scroll to the bottom and while 730 00:49:05,080 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 2: you're there, if you don't yet have a copy of 731 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,279 Speaker 2: my book and need like a free PDF copy of 732 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,440 Speaker 2: We Don't Die, a Skeptics Discovery of Life after Death, 733 00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,360 Speaker 2: just enter your name and your email address. There's some 734 00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,759 Speaker 2: other free goodies there as well. I invite you to 735 00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 2: join our free Sunday gathering on zoom. Starts two o'clock 736 00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:26,719 Speaker 2: New York time, and we have hundreds of people from 737 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:30,160 Speaker 2: all over the world join us. There's a medium demonstration 738 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:35,560 Speaker 2: included in every single service, and they are empowering, inspirational 739 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,719 Speaker 2: and fun. I want to thank doctor Stephen Browdie and 740 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,799 Speaker 2: doctor Julie Bischel for their incredible research. They are true 741 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,480 Speaker 2: pioneers and we get to benefit from their work. So, 742 00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:51,040 Speaker 2: my friend, the verdict is in. The logic holds up check, 743 00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:55,000 Speaker 2: the science holds up check, and the love holds up check. 744 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,560 Speaker 2: You are not a body that has a soul. You 745 00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,799 Speaker 2: are a soul that has a body. We really are 746 00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:04,160 Speaker 2: as a divine, eternal being and we're all here to 747 00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:07,799 Speaker 2: learn to grow and to love and to forgive and 748 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,959 Speaker 2: be kind and help others. And when this life is over, 749 00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,560 Speaker 2: the game isn't finished. It's just time to move to 750 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,680 Speaker 2: a different board. I'm Sandra Champlain. Thank you from the 751 00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:22,279 Speaker 2: bottom of my heart for listening to Shades of the 752 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:27,400 Speaker 2: Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal 753 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:28,960 Speaker 2: Podcast Network. 754 00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,319 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost 755 00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,359 Speaker 1: Ay and Paranormal Podcast Network. Make sure and check out 756 00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 1: all our shows on the iHeartRadio app or by going 757 00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:52,080 Speaker 1: to iHeartRadio dot com