WEBVTT - Nile Rodgers: Broken Record Classic 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:24.036 Pushkin. Hey everyone, Today we're revisiting one of the early 0:00:24.196 --> 0:00:29.316 great episodes of Broken Record with legendary producer Nile Rogers. 0:00:29.836 --> 0:00:31.756 Over the course of me more than half a century 0:00:31.756 --> 0:00:35.476 long career, Nile Rogers has played his signature guitar on, written, 0:00:35.596 --> 0:00:38.836 or produced some of the greatest dance songs of all time, 0:00:39.036 --> 0:00:42.676 including Dana ross As I'm Coming Out, Daft Punks, Get Lucky, 0:00:42.796 --> 0:00:46.356 and Madonna's Like a Virgin. Back in fall of twenty eighteen, 0:00:46.476 --> 0:00:48.276 now I met up with Bruce Hellum at the same 0:00:48.316 --> 0:00:51.596 New York City recording studio where thirty five years earlier, 0:00:51.796 --> 0:00:55.436 Now recorded the Let's Dance Album with David Bowie. But 0:00:55.556 --> 0:00:58.996 this time around, Nile brought his famed disco funk band 0:00:59.076 --> 0:01:02.236 Chic to the interview to perform live renditions of their 0:01:02.276 --> 0:01:07.876 classic hits, including Lafreak, Good Times and Everybody Dance. So 0:01:07.956 --> 0:01:09.996 all the music you will hear in today episode was 0:01:10.036 --> 0:01:15.036 recorded live one take, just for us. In between performances, 0:01:15.156 --> 0:01:18.356 Nile shares exhilarating stories from his life, including how he 0:01:18.396 --> 0:01:21.876 found salvation as a young jazz guitarist whose teenage mom 0:01:22.036 --> 0:01:25.876 struggled with heroin addiction. Nil also talks about the night 0:01:25.956 --> 0:01:28.556 he played old James Brown tunes with Prince and Rolling 0:01:28.636 --> 0:01:31.756 Stones guitarist Ron Wood at a small club in London, 0:01:32.196 --> 0:01:34.676 and Nile explains what it was like going out clubbing 0:01:34.676 --> 0:01:39.276 with Madonna as her star was exploding in the mid eighties. 0:01:42.076 --> 0:01:45.236 This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. 0:01:45.476 --> 0:01:49.156 I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Bruce Edlam and Nile Rodgers from 0:01:49.196 --> 0:01:53.356 New York City's Power Station studio in twenty eighteen. That's 0:01:53.356 --> 0:01:56.076 the original guitar. Yeah, this is it. You still only 0:01:56.196 --> 0:01:58.556 use one guitar? This is it? I only use one guitar. 0:01:58.916 --> 0:02:02.556 Do you only have one? Now? I have two hundred? Okay? 0:02:02.756 --> 0:02:07.436 Do you have nice hollow bodies? Mainly I have. I's 0:02:07.436 --> 0:02:10.996 going to make sure de Angelico d Pristos L five 0:02:12.196 --> 0:02:14.516 Super four hundreds. But this one was when did you 0:02:14.556 --> 0:02:19.516 buy that nineteen seventy three? Wasn't it wasn't an expensive one? 0:02:19.556 --> 0:02:21.396 You put on a no, it's cheap. I didn't, actually, 0:02:21.796 --> 0:02:25.556 So I traded my jazz guitar and they gave me 0:02:25.596 --> 0:02:29.236 this and three hundred dollars. So if in nineteen seventy 0:02:29.276 --> 0:02:32.196 to be imagine giving me three hundred dollars plus a strat, 0:02:33.196 --> 0:02:35.556 like what was the jazz guitar worth in those days? 0:02:35.556 --> 0:02:39.036 Who I mean, even though it's a strat, it's not 0:02:39.076 --> 0:02:42.356 like any other strat. Yeah, it's light, it's a feather. 0:02:42.476 --> 0:02:45.916 It's thinner than anything you've ever seen. It's the nineteenth 0:02:46.156 --> 0:02:49.156 strat that they made in nineteen fifty nine. Look at 0:02:49.196 --> 0:02:51.476 Look at the difference, and just look at look at 0:02:51.476 --> 0:02:54.196 the thickness. So the head stock there, just check it 0:02:54.236 --> 0:02:55.676 out at that, you can see it all the way 0:02:55.716 --> 0:02:59.596 from there. Look at this, Yeah, this one. You can 0:02:59.716 --> 0:03:01.556 big hands though you don't need a you don't need 0:03:01.596 --> 0:03:04.996 a thin Wow, No, I got small hands? You do? 0:03:05.316 --> 0:03:08.036 Oh man, Jesus, you ever see real guitar players like 0:03:08.036 --> 0:03:11.916 these guys like Steve Vy and Ship and Hendrix. Like 0:03:12.436 --> 0:03:15.436 for me when I'm when I'm playing classical guitar, I 0:03:16.036 --> 0:03:19.476 really have to to get this stretch in certain pieces 0:03:19.996 --> 0:03:22.356 that that's a big deal for me. I have my 0:03:22.556 --> 0:03:25.036 finger way down here. Most classical guitar players can still 0:03:25.596 --> 0:03:27.636 you can still see some of their thumb. But me, 0:03:28.756 --> 0:03:32.996 you still practice classical. Not really, there's no point. But 0:03:33.156 --> 0:03:37.956 I just did an orchestral version Let's dance, And I 0:03:38.116 --> 0:03:42.916 had an idea of playing classical guitar, but it felt 0:03:42.916 --> 0:03:45.956 better to have Bully singing with the strings. Was amazing. 0:03:46.076 --> 0:03:48.996 Oh yeah, it's unbelievable. I want to ask you about 0:03:49.036 --> 0:03:53.596 all the songs, but let's start with Let's Dance. I 0:03:53.636 --> 0:03:55.196 want you to tell me about the first time you 0:03:55.276 --> 0:04:00.196 heard the song. Yeah, the very first time David played 0:04:00.716 --> 0:04:04.436 Let's Dance for me. He walked into my bedroom. We 0:04:04.516 --> 0:04:09.596 were in Switzerland, and I believe that he had said 0:04:09.716 --> 0:04:12.316 he had just written it the night before, and he 0:04:12.636 --> 0:04:20.836 um walked into the studio and he played something, um, 0:04:20.956 --> 0:04:23.076 something that sounded like that. You know. I was like, 0:04:24.036 --> 0:04:27.796 and I was like, that was and he was into it, 0:04:29.316 --> 0:04:33.516 um and um. He had the lyrics as well well. 0:04:33.516 --> 0:04:38.876 He just he was singing very um, true to it, 0:04:38.916 --> 0:04:42.076 like he knew what it was. He was singing, Um, 0:04:42.196 --> 0:04:48.116 it's almost hard for me to do it. Um. What 0:04:48.196 --> 0:04:56.516 was he doing? No, I did that. That's what he said. 0:04:56.516 --> 0:05:11.476 He's going, let's stand on the radio nothing something like that. 0:05:11.796 --> 0:05:18.476 Way that's up your face. And then I asked him 0:05:18.476 --> 0:05:21.236 if I could do an arrangement. So I fooled around 0:05:21.276 --> 0:05:27.796 with it and I was going and I knew that 0:05:27.836 --> 0:05:29.996 he liked jazz, so I could put in the jazzy 0:05:30.076 --> 0:05:32.516 chord and I could tell that he would like it 0:05:32.596 --> 0:05:35.076 right away. But then when I moved it from A 0:05:35.236 --> 0:05:39.196 minor up to B flat, it actually had a different vibe. 0:05:39.196 --> 0:05:42.676 It got it got brighter in like and funkier sounding. 0:05:42.716 --> 0:05:46.276 So I started going, you can already hear it like. 0:05:50.156 --> 0:05:52.756 Oh and by the way, when I started playing it, 0:05:52.836 --> 0:05:57.996 I only imitated his just for a few bars. I 0:05:58.036 --> 0:06:07.636 started going, but that still sounded dark. So then I 0:06:07.676 --> 0:06:30.876 moved it up and oct him when I went. But 0:06:30.996 --> 0:06:33.756 because of the whole disco sucks back backlash, I didn't 0:06:33.756 --> 0:06:37.996 want to do chucking on David Poley's album, So you 0:06:38.116 --> 0:06:41.356 ended up slowing it down after that, Um yeah, and 0:06:41.516 --> 0:06:45.396 only playing like So, if you hear the demo that 0:06:45.436 --> 0:06:48.116 I did in Switzerland, I'm chucking. I'm actually playing, you know. 0:06:54.836 --> 0:06:57.916 When you hear the original demo, I'm doing then Rogers thing. 0:06:58.276 --> 0:07:01.716 But when we got to America, I made a conscious 0:07:01.716 --> 0:07:05.196 decision not to do that and had the horns sort 0:07:05.236 --> 0:07:08.596 of doubling me and giving it some punch. And when 0:07:08.796 --> 0:07:12.436 Bow and I walked into the studio, Um, Bob Clearmontain 0:07:12.636 --> 0:07:16.516 was getting the different delays that he was going to 0:07:16.676 --> 0:07:19.916 use on the various instruments on the drums, so we 0:07:19.956 --> 0:07:23.316 wound up having a multi tap delay happening on the guitar. 0:07:23.756 --> 0:07:28.836 So even though all I played was the rhythm that 0:07:28.916 --> 0:07:48.396 you here, winds up sounding something like what the song now, 0:07:48.876 --> 0:07:52.396 Let's Dance. As many fans, it has one very famous 0:07:52.436 --> 0:07:55.516 fan who always wanted to play with you. Um, oh 0:07:55.636 --> 0:08:00.356 my god, Prince is that? Oh my god? Yeah? So 0:08:00.516 --> 0:08:03.796 um for years, I mean, I can't even tell you 0:08:03.836 --> 0:08:07.636 how many years, maybe since the first time I met 0:08:07.716 --> 0:08:12.476 Prince Um. He had asked me to play Let's Dance 0:08:12.556 --> 0:08:16.876 live together somewhere. So we had played live together in 0:08:17.076 --> 0:08:22.396 London at a little club in Camden, and we did 0:08:22.436 --> 0:08:25.596 not play Let's Dance that night, I'm positive of that. 0:08:25.956 --> 0:08:30.196 We played a bunch of James Brown's songs and maybe 0:08:30.236 --> 0:08:33.636 the Ohio Players and some funk songs. When I walked 0:08:33.636 --> 0:08:36.316 into the club, he was playing with Ron Wood and 0:08:36.436 --> 0:08:38.676 I don't know what they were playing. I don't remember. 0:08:39.236 --> 0:08:42.796 I was really pretty high in those days, but they 0:08:42.796 --> 0:08:45.596 were probably playing the blues or jamming on a popular 0:08:45.676 --> 0:08:47.876 rock song Sunshine or Your Love or something like that. 0:08:48.356 --> 0:08:52.356 And then when I walked in, Prince said, whoa, now, Rogers, not, 0:08:52.476 --> 0:08:54.956 this man has the funk. And he gave me his 0:08:55.036 --> 0:08:57.396 guitar and he sat down on the keyboards and we 0:08:57.476 --> 0:09:00.036 just jammed for like I don't even know how long, 0:09:00.276 --> 0:09:02.596 but that felt like one of the most amazing nights 0:09:02.596 --> 0:09:07.116 of my life. And I remember calling the concierge at 0:09:07.116 --> 0:09:09.876 my hotel and asked him if they had purple roses. 0:09:10.276 --> 0:09:12.596 I didn't know if there was, if there was anything 0:09:12.596 --> 0:09:15.756 as a purple rose, if they existed, So I said, 0:09:16.076 --> 0:09:18.436 figure out a way to make them purple, either spray 0:09:18.476 --> 0:09:20.756 paint them or put food coloring in them and send 0:09:21.636 --> 0:09:24.156 I don't know, I was pretty absurd in those days. 0:09:24.596 --> 0:09:27.556 I may have sent like a hundred purple roses to 0:09:27.836 --> 0:09:31.836 Prince's room. Nice. That's crazy, But you ended up playing 0:09:31.876 --> 0:09:37.436 the song, yeah, eventually. So years later he tricked me 0:09:37.476 --> 0:09:41.996 a couple of times. We both were living sort of 0:09:41.996 --> 0:09:44.796 in Turks and Cacos a bit. He bought a house 0:09:44.836 --> 0:09:49.236 down there and I was part of a resort project, 0:09:49.756 --> 0:09:53.196 and one New Year's Eve we played and oh it 0:09:53.276 --> 0:09:56.916 was cool, and John bon Jovie came when John got 0:09:56.956 --> 0:09:59.676 his start here, so John bon Jovi and Prince came 0:09:59.676 --> 0:10:01.716 to the show, and Prince said to me, oh, wow, 0:10:01.756 --> 0:10:03.716 tonight is the night. Now I'll get the play Let's 0:10:03.716 --> 0:10:06.116 stance with you in the band. So we set up 0:10:06.116 --> 0:10:08.516 to set up his amp and everything, did the whole 0:10:08.596 --> 0:10:10.396 sound check. We're ready for Prince to come out and 0:10:10.436 --> 0:10:13.716 play New Year's Eve. The places crowded, everybody's having a 0:10:13.756 --> 0:10:16.676 good time, and we're doing our thing. And I get 0:10:16.676 --> 0:10:18.596 into the middle of the setting. I say, ladies and gentlemen, 0:10:19.556 --> 0:10:21.836 we have a special guest coming out tonight. I think 0:10:21.876 --> 0:10:25.516 you're gonna love this, Prince, and I introduced him and 0:10:25.676 --> 0:10:28.076 the band. We're just standing there, no print. He doesn't 0:10:28.076 --> 0:10:31.276 come out, and I keep introducing him. I go, Prince. 0:10:31.796 --> 0:10:35.356 I don't know if I started screaming press because I 0:10:35.476 --> 0:10:38.836 knew it was there, and someone told me that he 0:10:38.956 --> 0:10:43.316 actually ran and hid because he wouldn't come out. So 0:10:43.876 --> 0:10:45.876 after a while we just said to hell with him. 0:10:45.876 --> 0:10:47.996 We played the song, and then at the end of 0:10:48.076 --> 0:10:50.356 the night, I didn't even ask him. Maybe I asked 0:10:50.436 --> 0:10:52.116 him why he didn't come out or something I don't 0:10:52.116 --> 0:10:54.276 even remember, but we wound up playing. It was great, 0:10:54.276 --> 0:10:56.516 everybody had a good time, but I was embarrassed as hell. 0:10:57.076 --> 0:11:00.476 So now fast forward a year or two later and 0:11:00.636 --> 0:11:04.676 we're playing a show with him at the Superdome in 0:11:04.836 --> 0:11:08.436 Louisiana in New Orleans, and he told us that he 0:11:08.476 --> 0:11:10.556 was going to come out. Now we're in front of 0:11:10.596 --> 0:11:14.116 like seventy thousand people, and I'm not going to be 0:11:14.236 --> 0:11:17.436 this idiot and make the same mistake again. And ladies 0:11:17.476 --> 0:11:19.916 and gentlemen, we have a special guest for you tonight, Prince. 0:11:20.116 --> 0:11:21.756 And then he doesn't come out. And I'm standing in 0:11:21.756 --> 0:11:23.796 front of seventy thousand people and he doesn't come out. 0:11:24.076 --> 0:11:26.396 At least at the resort was only about two hundred, 0:11:26.996 --> 0:11:30.156 so I didn't I didn't introduce him, even though we 0:11:30.196 --> 0:11:32.236 went through the same steps we did sound check. He 0:11:32.276 --> 0:11:35.436 had his am there in the whole bit. So when 0:11:35.436 --> 0:11:37.156 we get into the part of the song where Ralph 0:11:37.236 --> 0:11:40.196 tells the whole crowd to jump, Jump, Jump, I'm standing 0:11:40.196 --> 0:11:42.276 on the stage and I'm jumping up and down, and 0:11:42.316 --> 0:11:46.476 then I hear this crowd like, give this loud roar wow, 0:11:46.796 --> 0:11:50.596 And I look to my left and there's Print jumping 0:11:50.716 --> 0:11:53.036 with me, jumping up and holding his hand up in 0:11:53.076 --> 0:11:56.076 the air, and the crowd freaks out. And then we 0:11:56.196 --> 0:11:58.196 go into the next bit and he takes over and 0:11:58.236 --> 0:12:02.156 starts sewing and it's just killing. It's so good. So 0:12:02.316 --> 0:12:04.156 he did a little bit of like the sort of 0:12:04.196 --> 0:12:06.436 Stevie ay Vaughan kind of thing, but then he went 0:12:06.476 --> 0:12:09.156 into like just chucking with me, and that's what I 0:12:09.276 --> 0:12:11.556 got nuts. And you can go online and see it. 0:12:11.556 --> 0:12:14.796 It's on YouTube. It's so great. We'll have more with 0:12:14.876 --> 0:12:21.956 Bruce Headlam and Nile Rodgers after the break. We're back 0:12:21.996 --> 0:12:49.356 with Bruce Headlam, Nile Rodgers and Cheek. Now. I looked up, 0:12:49.476 --> 0:12:51.596 and this is for the music nerds out there. I 0:12:51.636 --> 0:12:56.316 looked up the chords to Everybody Dance, and it's a 0:12:56.436 --> 0:13:00.476 C minor seventh, B flat eleven, B flat eleven. I 0:13:00.516 --> 0:13:02.196 should let you tell the chords. You know, the chords 0:13:02.916 --> 0:13:05.956 C minus seven, B flat eleven to C eleven A 0:13:06.116 --> 0:13:09.476 flat major seven. Now this chord, you can spell it 0:13:09.596 --> 0:13:13.116 a number of ways. I like to think of it 0:13:13.596 --> 0:13:16.276 as a minor seven with a raise five, or a 0:13:16.676 --> 0:13:22.556 minor a minor seven flat thirteen, but most people would 0:13:22.556 --> 0:13:25.196 probably call it a D minor eleven with an A 0:13:25.356 --> 0:13:29.636 in the base. UM to a B flat eleven, And 0:13:29.676 --> 0:13:33.796 the reason for that is because um, I wanted to 0:13:33.796 --> 0:13:42.396 have this chromatic movement. So right, so it goes to 0:13:42.676 --> 0:14:24.236 everybody dances, do do do do? Clap your hands. Okay, 0:14:24.276 --> 0:14:26.916 you're a serious jazz guy. Yeah, nobody else would do 0:14:26.916 --> 0:14:28.956 it that way. I don't do do do? You do 0:14:29.036 --> 0:14:31.036 all your songs that way? It is it that kind 0:14:31.076 --> 0:14:33.836 of chording I like to think. So, I mean, look 0:14:33.836 --> 0:14:35.756 at Let's dance? How cool that is? I mean that's 0:14:36.436 --> 0:14:39.636 um that. I guess that's somewhat of a trademark of mine, 0:14:39.716 --> 0:14:45.756 putting different types of jazzy chords and cool voicings. Um 0:14:45.756 --> 0:14:48.676 in pop songs, you know, look at Diana Ross and 0:14:48.836 --> 0:14:51.316 I'm Coming Out and all that stuff. And you also, 0:14:51.596 --> 0:14:53.956 was everybody dance the first time? You used to break down? 0:14:54.836 --> 0:15:00.916 And um, no, breakdowns were actually quite common in our 0:15:00.996 --> 0:15:05.596 live shows. Um, it was just the first time I 0:15:05.756 --> 0:15:08.476 did it when I was recording and I was the boss. 0:15:09.476 --> 0:15:11.636 Every other time that I recorded, I was not the boss, 0:15:11.676 --> 0:15:14.316 so I didn't have any control of it. Yeah, And 0:15:14.476 --> 0:15:16.356 was that from jazz? Like breaking it down like that 0:15:16.396 --> 0:15:18.596 head kind of rebuilding? That's an R and B thing. 0:15:18.676 --> 0:15:20.996 It's a it's an R and B disco thing. It's 0:15:21.036 --> 0:15:23.236 a common R and B move. You would hear a 0:15:23.276 --> 0:15:25.396 lot of R and B bands breakdown and go now 0:15:25.436 --> 0:15:27.476 I want to talk to ladies for me, or I 0:15:27.516 --> 0:15:29.356 want to talk to you, or like Earth when and 0:15:29.396 --> 0:15:31.236 Fire when you hear them say pop, I want to 0:15:31.276 --> 0:15:33.356 talk to you about things I see every day, you know, 0:15:33.356 --> 0:15:36.556 and they break down on the record. It's all about 0:15:37.276 --> 0:15:39.316 So it was very common in R and B to 0:15:39.396 --> 0:16:24.796 do that. I want to talk a bit about good times. 0:16:24.916 --> 0:16:28.436 You said in an interview once that all your songs 0:16:28.476 --> 0:16:32.116 are nonfiction, absolutely, and they're often about things that you 0:16:32.196 --> 0:16:35.956 want to see happen. Can you tell me what good times? Yes? 0:16:36.556 --> 0:16:42.076 So when we wrote Good Times in America, at the time, 0:16:42.116 --> 0:16:46.516 we were in the midst of the greatest financial recession 0:16:46.676 --> 0:16:50.116 since the Great Depression. We had gas rationing, you know, 0:16:50.236 --> 0:16:53.316 I mean if you lived in New York State, I remember, 0:16:53.396 --> 0:16:56.076 if you're a license plate ended with an even number, 0:16:56.116 --> 0:16:57.996 you can get gas on a certain day or an 0:16:57.996 --> 0:17:04.316 odd number a different day. So times were sort of hard, 0:17:05.036 --> 0:17:08.556 and we thought, well, what other period in American history 0:17:09.196 --> 0:17:12.796 seemed to feel like that? And we went wow, you know, 0:17:13.636 --> 0:17:16.636 the Roaring twenties and the you know, the the Great 0:17:16.636 --> 0:17:19.596 Depression and that sort of jazz era and the whole 0:17:19.636 --> 0:17:23.156 thing about dance marathons, and that's why we came up 0:17:23.156 --> 0:17:25.316 with the whole yas y'alls the thing on dance, dance dance. 0:17:25.476 --> 0:17:28.476 The whole concept of the first few Chic albums was 0:17:28.516 --> 0:17:33.796 all jazz era stuff and h on risque. When we 0:17:33.796 --> 0:17:37.276 finally did Good Times, we were confident enough in our 0:17:37.316 --> 0:17:41.396 band to now sort of expose our formula to the world. 0:17:42.076 --> 0:17:47.396 So the lyrics to Good Times were sort of ripped 0:17:47.436 --> 0:17:51.876 off from Al Jolson and the song that they used 0:17:51.916 --> 0:17:58.796 to sing after Prohibition when they were happy Day and 0:17:58.836 --> 0:18:03.796 then time and any dang about quarter to night. So 0:18:03.876 --> 0:18:08.636 we go, happy, happy Days are here again. Right, that 0:18:08.796 --> 0:18:11.436 was we start right with it. So we are obvious 0:18:14.196 --> 0:18:27.676 again times. Right, let's get together, Let's do it again. 0:18:30.436 --> 0:18:42.436 Because Good Times came out at a particular political time 0:18:42.956 --> 0:18:45.636 because the Disco Sucks movement had come they had the 0:18:46.116 --> 0:18:50.276 riot in Chicago. Yeah, um, summer of seventy nine. What 0:18:50.316 --> 0:18:52.676 did that feel like for you? Well, it was really 0:18:52.676 --> 0:18:57.116 interesting because it was sort of like a biphasic kind 0:18:57.156 --> 0:19:00.196 of feeling because when we found out about it, we 0:19:00.196 --> 0:19:04.556 were on an airplane flying from Europe back to America. 0:19:04.796 --> 0:19:09.476 So it happened while we were away, and we didn't 0:19:09.476 --> 0:19:11.556 think of ourselves as a disco band. I mean, listen 0:19:11.636 --> 0:19:15.356 to every chic album. We have ballads, everyone has an instrumental. 0:19:15.436 --> 0:19:19.436 It's always a jazzy, you know type of thing. The 0:19:19.636 --> 0:19:22.876 Diana Ross album is incredibly As far as the composers, 0:19:23.276 --> 0:19:26.316 I gotta say that that's really unique. There's nothing I've 0:19:26.356 --> 0:19:29.796 ever written that sounds like that before or after. That 0:19:29.916 --> 0:19:33.036 was purely written for Diana Ross. I mean, you listen 0:19:33.076 --> 0:19:35.916 to a song like I'm coming Out, and I mean 0:19:36.076 --> 0:19:43.116 I have a fanfare in there. I mean, we're When 0:19:43.156 --> 0:19:45.836 we first saw Diana Ross, Bernard walked with me and said, wow, 0:19:45.836 --> 0:19:48.556 look at that. She's like our black queen. So I 0:19:48.636 --> 0:19:51.876 kept that in my head and when I wrote that fanfare, 0:19:52.836 --> 0:19:54.996 I said to Diana, I said, look, you know, like 0:19:55.036 --> 0:19:57.196 when the President of the United States walked walks in 0:19:57.196 --> 0:19:59.756 the room, they go dad, Hail to the Chief. I said, 0:19:59.796 --> 0:20:04.596 this is your fanfare. And I told her, I says, 0:20:04.636 --> 0:20:07.876 you will never start a show without this song ever 0:20:08.196 --> 0:20:10.636 the rest of your life. And now we see thirty 0:20:10.636 --> 0:20:12.676 five years later, I was right. She would never start 0:20:12.756 --> 0:20:15.076 to show without playing out Coming Out at the beginning 0:20:15.076 --> 0:20:17.836 of her show. Although one of your most famous songs, 0:20:18.476 --> 0:20:21.996 the Freak, is actually about being rejected at a disco. Correct, 0:20:22.876 --> 0:20:25.916 Can you tell that story quick? Yeah? So our first song, 0:20:25.996 --> 0:20:30.476 Everybody Dance, was the real sort of super cool club 0:20:30.556 --> 0:20:34.956 song on our first album. Even though Dance Dance Dance 0:20:35.116 --> 0:20:38.636 was popular and was big on the radio and was 0:20:39.316 --> 0:20:42.916 platinum twelve inch, I mean it was huge, it was 0:20:43.036 --> 0:20:48.396 Everybody Dance that really secured our vibe as a cool, hip, 0:20:48.476 --> 0:20:52.876 underground dance group. And so Grace Jones had heard Everybody 0:20:52.956 --> 0:20:55.436 Dance and she was a fan of that song, and 0:20:55.556 --> 0:20:59.836 she was thinking about having these two young new producers 0:21:00.156 --> 0:21:03.756 do what would then be her next album. She said 0:21:03.796 --> 0:21:07.796 that the only way we could truly understand her artistically 0:21:07.956 --> 0:21:10.236 is to see her live show. Then we really would 0:21:10.356 --> 0:21:13.516 understand who Grace Jones is. But the problem was we 0:21:13.556 --> 0:21:15.996 had only spoken to her that one time. We never 0:21:16.076 --> 0:21:19.036 met her. We were on the phone. So Grace has 0:21:19.036 --> 0:21:21.996 a very unique accent. She's the only one on earth 0:21:22.036 --> 0:21:24.956 that sounds like that, and she says, so darling. But 0:21:25.116 --> 0:21:27.076 you go to the back door and you tell them 0:21:27.076 --> 0:21:29.436 your personal friends of miss Grace Jones, and they would 0:21:29.476 --> 0:21:32.516 let you in so we did that with that accent, 0:21:33.116 --> 0:21:36.516 and the guy slams the door in our faces. And 0:21:36.556 --> 0:21:39.036 while he's slamming the door, he's going, oh, fuck off, 0:21:39.516 --> 0:21:41.396 and we said no, no, no, no no, no, we're kicking 0:21:41.436 --> 0:21:43.556 the door again because now we had to be above 0:21:43.596 --> 0:21:45.716 the level of the music. Now once we finally got 0:21:45.716 --> 0:21:48.516 his attention, so we wanted to get him before he 0:21:48.676 --> 0:21:51.516 walked away from the door. So we kicked really hard 0:21:51.716 --> 0:21:54.796 and he said, you know, he reiterated what he had said, 0:21:54.796 --> 0:21:57.396 I told you the f off, so we knew we 0:21:57.396 --> 0:21:59.196 weren't going to get in. It was New Year's Eve 0:21:59.436 --> 0:22:05.356 seventy seven going into seventy eight, and we were walking 0:22:05.396 --> 0:22:08.196 back to my apartment, which is on fifty second Street 0:22:08.196 --> 0:22:10.636 between eight and nine, and to get there we had 0:22:10.676 --> 0:22:13.396 to pass a liquor store, so we bought two bottles 0:22:13.396 --> 0:22:15.476 of damper On, which in those days we called it 0:22:15.556 --> 0:22:19.116 rock and roll mouthwash. We bought two bottles of DP 0:22:19.836 --> 0:22:21.876 and went to my house and we downed them so 0:22:21.956 --> 0:22:25.756 fast we got really light headed, and we turned his 0:22:26.356 --> 0:22:45.596 rejection phrase f off into shriek out. We went, oh, well, 0:22:45.636 --> 0:22:47.516 when we first wrote it, we wrote a whole song 0:22:48.036 --> 0:22:52.556 using the original lyric and thinking of every situation where 0:22:52.556 --> 0:22:57.756 the appropriate response would be fuck up. So we're playing no, no, 0:22:58.036 --> 0:23:00.676 if a cab driver cuts you off, don't, don't fuck up. 0:23:03.316 --> 0:23:05.236 And I remember saying, if your mother asked you to 0:23:05.276 --> 0:23:08.956 do homework, fuck up. And we were into, were laughing, 0:23:09.116 --> 0:23:12.756 feeling great, and then finally my partner Bernard's I'm a man, 0:23:13.476 --> 0:23:16.676 you notice is happening and I'm like a Bernard. You know, 0:23:16.956 --> 0:23:19.796 this is two years before hip hop. We can't get 0:23:19.876 --> 0:23:22.556 you know, a radio record on the radio that's got 0:23:22.596 --> 0:23:27.916 the F bomb in it. But somehow we wound up 0:23:28.156 --> 0:23:57.396 with freak up. We have to take a quick break 0:23:57.516 --> 0:24:00.236 right here, but we'll be right back with Bruce Headlam 0:24:00.316 --> 0:24:06.956 and Nil Rogers. We're back with Bruce Headlam, Nil Rogers 0:24:07.156 --> 0:24:11.676 and Chic. You mentioned that you and Bernard didn't see 0:24:11.676 --> 0:24:14.836 yourselves as stars as frontman and you saw a chic 0:24:14.956 --> 0:24:19.156 very much as this organization. Yes, you've built this incredible career, 0:24:19.196 --> 0:24:22.756 You've had hits literally in every decade since you started 0:24:23.716 --> 0:24:28.396 by being this great collaborator. Why does collaboration seem to 0:24:28.476 --> 0:24:31.356 mean more to you than being the front man? Because 0:24:31.796 --> 0:24:36.036 as a composer, I write for ensembles. That's what I hear. 0:24:37.236 --> 0:24:39.996 The only time I could ever think of writing a 0:24:39.996 --> 0:24:47.476 composition that was actually recorded and performed for either a soloist, 0:24:48.196 --> 0:24:52.116 a solo instrument, or maybe a duet. It's just for films. 0:24:52.356 --> 0:24:55.476 I can coming to America write this queue where they 0:24:55.476 --> 0:24:57.836 go the Royal Penis is clean, your Highness, and it's 0:24:57.836 --> 0:25:02.116 just like a pan flute, you know, pan flute and harp. 0:25:03.476 --> 0:25:06.356 And then in the movie called Soup for One, I 0:25:06.636 --> 0:25:10.316 do this thing called Tavern on the Green and it's 0:25:10.396 --> 0:25:16.596 just me playing classical guitar along with a Yamaha CSAD 0:25:16.716 --> 0:25:19.916 synthesizer with my keyboard player. But those are the only 0:25:19.996 --> 0:25:22.836 duets that I've ever really recorded. Everything else is for 0:25:22.996 --> 0:25:25.356 a bunch of a room full of people. But in 0:25:25.396 --> 0:25:28.836 your autobiography, which I'm going to recommend everybody because it's 0:25:29.756 --> 0:25:33.076 it really is this incredible life story and it is 0:25:33.276 --> 0:25:36.036 it's sort of James Baldwin and Charles Dickens wrote a 0:25:36.076 --> 0:25:39.796 book together. It may start to approach your You know, 0:25:39.836 --> 0:25:43.196 you had a very you come back to this a 0:25:43.316 --> 0:25:48.276 very lonely life. Yeah, you're around your parents or your 0:25:48.316 --> 0:25:51.236 stepfather and your mother, whom you love dearly, but who 0:25:51.276 --> 0:25:53.956 would send you on bus rides across the country by yourself, 0:25:54.236 --> 0:25:57.476 who often left you alone. And they were heroin attics. 0:25:57.516 --> 0:26:00.916 I mean they were in pursuit of their number one love. 0:26:01.956 --> 0:26:04.316 And when when someone first tuned your guitar and you 0:26:04.396 --> 0:26:07.436 played I think a day Day life, right, and you 0:26:07.516 --> 0:26:09.396 thought I'm going to be Were you thinking I want 0:26:09.436 --> 0:26:10.636 to be a star? I want to be up on 0:26:10.756 --> 0:26:15.036 snow No, no, no no. Prior to that, I had 0:26:15.076 --> 0:26:18.796 only really played classical music, so I just wanted to 0:26:18.836 --> 0:26:20.516 be part of a symphony orchestra. I used to play 0:26:20.516 --> 0:26:22.916 the clarinet, which is funny now because if I tried 0:26:22.916 --> 0:26:26.276 to play the clarinet it would probably sound hysterical. But 0:26:27.036 --> 0:26:28.916 my dream when I was a kid was to be 0:26:28.956 --> 0:26:31.396 a part of Maybe that's what it's all about it 0:26:31.436 --> 0:26:33.356 because I've always wanted to be part of an orchestra, 0:26:33.436 --> 0:26:36.516 to be part of an organization, and because in a 0:26:36.516 --> 0:26:40.756 big symphony orchestra, basically you could hide, but you know 0:26:40.836 --> 0:26:43.116 every now and you might get a great solo, you know. 0:26:43.916 --> 0:26:47.396 So that was sort of my dream growing up. I 0:26:47.476 --> 0:26:50.436 wanted to emulate my biological father, who was always just 0:26:50.876 --> 0:26:54.036 a percussionist with bands. He was never like the guy 0:26:54.076 --> 0:26:57.636 out front, like Tito point there or something. But you 0:26:57.756 --> 0:27:01.116 like that sense of anonymity, yeah, because it was the 0:27:01.156 --> 0:27:05.836 way that I never felt attractive or anything like that. 0:27:06.916 --> 0:27:10.356 And when you looked at stars, stars were always like 0:27:10.396 --> 0:27:13.236 you know, they walk into the room. You know. I 0:27:13.276 --> 0:27:15.556 remember I used to walk into a club with Madonna. 0:27:15.676 --> 0:27:18.356 Now I'm born in New York, knew every club owner 0:27:18.556 --> 0:27:21.636 in town, and I'd walk into a club with Madonna 0:27:21.716 --> 0:27:24.996 and she was relatively unknown, and people go, hey, who's 0:27:24.996 --> 0:27:26.676 that girl with Now who's that girl? You hear it 0:27:26.796 --> 0:27:29.436 then like who's that girl? Who's that girl? Now? Who's 0:27:29.476 --> 0:27:33.476 that girl? And she was unknown, but that's because she 0:27:33.556 --> 0:27:35.836 was a star. She felt like a star from the 0:27:35.876 --> 0:27:37.956