WEBVTT - Marriage Evolution: Navigating Lifelong Partnerships and Self-Discovery with Sandra Tate AND Sade Parham 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:02.560 Hey, everybody, it's Tiffany D. 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:02.920 Cross. 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:05.000 You'r host of Across Generations, and I want to thank 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:07.800 you guys so much for tuning in every single week. 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:10.000 I want to take a moment to shout out those 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:11.880 of you who have taken the time to rate and 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:14.200 review the show. That really helps grow the platform and 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.120 I really really appreciate it. So I want to thank you. 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.680 Susie seven five seven. He said, you love this podcast, 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.080 and each and every episode has resonated with you, and 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:25.279 I just want to thank you for saying that, because 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:27.120 that's the goal of the show. We want to resonate 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:30.240 with you, So keep tuning in and hopefully we'll keep resonating. 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.840 Welcome to a Cross Generations where the voices of black 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:43.800 women unite. I'm your host, Tiffany Cross. Tiffany Cross. Tiffany, 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.320 We gather a season elder myself as the middle generation, 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:52.000 and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations. Prepared 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:55.680 to engage or hear perspections that no one else is having. 0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:59.640 You know how we do. We create magic, creates magic. 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.760 Hi, everybody, Welcome to another episode of Across Generations. And 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:10.080 today we have a very exciting topic to talk about marriage. 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:12.840 So before we get into the conversation, I want to 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:15.919 start with the marriage rates in America. They have actually 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:17.800 been on the decline since the latter half of the 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:22.360 twentieth century, and collectively, we're all marrying at a later age. 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:25.240 But here's the interesting thing. The decline of marriage and 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.600 delay are even more dramatic among us. Among Black folks. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.000 That's all according to the latest US Census. Now, in 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:33.959 nineteen seventy, just over thirty five percent of black men 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:36.360 and twenty seven percent of Black women were never married. 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:40.679 But by twenty twenty, these percentages had jumped to fifty 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:43.560 one point four percent for Black men and forty seven 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:45.600 point five percent for Black women. 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:47.080 Now why do we think that is. 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:49.400 I'll tell you personally, I didn't grow up looking at 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.360 bridal magazines or planning what my wedding would look like. 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:54.560 But I certainly desired a life partner. 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.760 And I wonder what the correlation is between marriage and 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.560 love because these are not the same. Things seem to 0:02:00.600 --> 0:02:03.640 be more elusive in our community, and that makes me sad. 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.320 People seem to desire it less and less. And we 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.000 know there are benefits to marriage. You can start building 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.640 wealth earlier. Having a life partner can enhance your health, 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:16.120 career and lifespan, and it can be beautiful. But I 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:20.280 do wonder now, with smartphones and Instagram scrolling and things 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.639 like pornography at our fingertips, does it erode the desire 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:27.919 for partnership actual partnership. The data shows that famous statistic 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.440 that everybody loves to quote that half of all marriages 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:32.640 and in divorce, and that is true, but that's the 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:36.160 first marriage, and the average length of that first marriage 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:39.040 before you get divorced is eight years. So I do 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:42.400 wonder why aren't people getting married, Why are those who 0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.320 do get married divorcing? What do the whise have to 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.040 teach us about marriage and what do the young have 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.000 to reveal to us about their views on partnership? And 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:54.880 for me, I've been contemplating, if you're not combining balance sheets, 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:57.720 if you're not trying to have children, if you're comfortable 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:00.239 in your own space, what does love and partner ship 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.720 look like at this age? I have some thoughts, and 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:05.200 quite frankly though, I'm really looking for some guidance on 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.240 some of these things. So please let's get into it. 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:11.680 I am so thrilled to be joined by Missus Shade. 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:16.120 She is a thirty one year old podcaster and an entrepreneur. 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.600 Very happy to have you here with Us Shade, and 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.640 we have Missus Tate now. Missus Tate is eighty one 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.440 years old, former software developer, proud mother of two. But 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:27.160 here's the most impressive thing. She's been married for sixty 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:32.040 one years. So amazing. You're not married, you're dating. Married 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:33.720 for sixty one years. I'm in the middle. 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:35.760 I'm looking for advice from you both. Missus Tate. 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.120 I want to start with you, because sixty one years, 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:40.560 I mean, that's amazing. When I was younger and people 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.520 would say how long they were married, and then the 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.720 audience would applaud. I never got that. Now that I'm older, 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:47.600 I understand why. 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.960 People look at it like an accomplishment. Tell us a 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.240 little bit about your marriage, well. 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:55.400 Person of I got married when I was eighteen, and 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:59.320 I think I mentioned before at Howard University. Back then, 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:02.680 I was pregnant when we got married. Those are things 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.240 that you really had to do or your parents would 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.360 try to work something out. So I was pregnant when 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.760 I got married. But I'd like to say my husband 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.680 and I were definitely in love, because there was a 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:17.680 thing about love at first sight with the both of us. 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:21.880 When we met at Howard University. I clearly remember I 0:04:21.920 --> 0:04:24.920 had gone to a party with my girlfriend and we 0:04:24.920 --> 0:04:28.720 were coming down the stairs and he was there, and 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.839 our eyes clicked, and for some reason it was something 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:35.640 was going on, and I walked down the stairs and 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:37.839 he walked over to me and grabbed my hand and 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:42.279 we just started dancing. And we left that party together. 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:46.000 We hadn't said a word to each other and we left. 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:47.640 I didn't have sex with him that night. 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:52.760 No judgment if you did. No judgment if you did. 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.359 I'm impressed mister Tate's game if you did, But no judgment. 0:04:56.960 --> 0:05:01.640 So being pregnant, you always wonder are we married because 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:06.040 I was pregnant or because we loved each other that much? 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:10.280 It always kind of lingers in your mind. And I 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:14.080 think after sixty one years, I think I we do 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.160 love you. I loved them more today than I did 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.680 back then, And of course we had our rough patches 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.200 along the way, like most marriages do. 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:27.800 That testimony, I started out by saying, you know, I'm 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:29.640 wondering what it looks like. But hearing you say that 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.839 It does make me desire a partnership even more to 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.360 hear you you talk about that sixty one years that's 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.840 a really long long time. This concept of love at 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.359 first sight. It makes me wonder about the correlation between 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.680 love and marriage, because I just said the two are 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:48.280 not always the same. In some marriages, I feel like 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:50.800 they're mutually exclusive. Some people just stay together. But it 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.080 sounds like you and your husband sixty one years later, 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:55.520 you make a conscious decision every day to still be 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:57.080 there and in love with each other. 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.800 In a set to us, a conscious decision because when 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:02.520 my daughters, I was working at the time, and then 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:03.520 we were young. 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:05.680 I was eighteen, he was twenty. 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:09.919 One and only child, a little kind of nuts boiled, 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.640 but you know, so some of the things. And I 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.800 remember sitting talking with my daughters and they were like 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:20.400 six or seven at the time, and he's done something crazy. 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:22.640 And I sat them down and I said, you know, 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:27.440 Janine diitre, I'm thinking about very seriously, I'm gonna. 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:28.039 Leave your father. 0:06:28.240 --> 0:06:32.839 And they looked at me and said what she said? Okay, mom, 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:35.920 And my older daughter Janine said, then who's going to 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.040 take care of daddy? And when she said that, I said, well, 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:41.120 there goes apart for better or worse. 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:43.560 So I said, okay, so. 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:45.880 I made am. I said, no, we're not going to 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.440 do that. We're just going to work past whatever it 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:49.280 is that we're going. 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.000 Wow, Yes there's a story there and I'm going to 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:52.960 get it. But I'm gonna come. 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:53.280 Back to that. 0:06:54.800 --> 0:07:00.440 I have so many more questions about that. I want 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:04.000 to bring Shida into the conversation. Our younger guest here now, Satday. 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.839 You're dating someone, right, you guys are in an exclusive relationship? 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:10.600 Yes, and do you want to get married? I do. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:12.800 It took me a while to kind of come to 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.960 that because I grew up with my mom really emphasizing that, yes, 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.080 marriage is beautiful, like my parents were married. But she's like, ultimately, 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:22.200 in this day and age, it's a business. It's like 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:24.360 a contract. So if you are getting into a situation, 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:26.800 you need to be mindful of like this person could 0:07:26.800 --> 0:07:30.320 get your assets, your home, like other things. And so 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:32.360 I've always been like, well, if I don't need to 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:35.800 get married on paper, maybe I won't. I've looked up 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:37.880 the you could be in like a long term agreement 0:07:37.920 --> 0:07:39.600 and then you can get paperwork that like if I 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:41.200 need to take care of them in the hospital or 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:43.000 something like that. I could do that. I've literally looked 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:44.840 into that and I was like, you know what, at 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:46.840 the end of the day, I think I'll I'll do it. 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.040 You do want to get married, yeah, But it's interesting 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:51.160 to hear you talk about it like it's like a business, 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:53.720 you know, like as a contract, yeah, and not a 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:58.360 life partnership in like a spiritual, mental, emotional connection. 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:01.920 I think that you can have that type of a 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.040 connection with so many people. It doesn't necessarily just have 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.360 to be the person you decide to marry. I think 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.840 when you do jump into marriage, at least from my perspective, 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.240 it is definitely a conscious decision that you are splitting 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.240 something from like a business perspective, because we could just 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.320 be together and it can be very casual and we 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:19.720 don't have to do go down to the courthouse and 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.480 have a piece of paper binding us. And so I've 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:24.320 really kind of gone back and forth. 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:24.800 On those thoughts. 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:26.880 But I think it is something that would mean a 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:28.280 lot more so to him. 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.200 It's interesting hearing the two of you your perspectives on 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:32.800 it and the way you describe it is very different. 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:37.000 And I want to get into how our collective perspectives 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:39.800 on marriage have changed through the decades and the generations. 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.680 We just talked about how it's a SETTI declined in 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:45.680 the Black community specifically, and I got to say, I 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.160 think our superpower has been that structure, our family unit, 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.640 our community. And so seeing those statistics, I'm questioning what 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.280 is happening with us that we are choosing to not partner. 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.840 We know that you were with childs, but you're saying, yeah, 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:02.960 I would still choose my husband today. What is it 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:07.280 about your partnership that has sustained over six decades. 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:12.480 To me, marriage is like a lifetime a compromise and 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:17.520 rearranged priorities. So that's something you have to always keep 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.920 in mind that it's not just you in this marriage. 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:24.040 You have a partner, so you have to come to 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:29.120 some common ground on things. I really I think that's very, 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.520 very important. It's a lot of compromise and a lot 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.280 of rearranging of priorities. You know. 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:36.319 It's an interesting quote. 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.120 Latasha Richardson is the wife of Sam Jackson, and someone 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:43.200 asked her how did you maintain your marriage all these years? 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.320 And she said, it requires a lot of amnesia and 0:09:45.360 --> 0:09:49.400 a lot of forgiveness. I think about that. Yeah, I 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:52.280 mean it's you know, there have to be times where 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:56.000 you wonder. And I know me personally, I don't have 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.920 a lot of either. I don't have a lot of amnesia, 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:00.160 and I don't have a lot of forgive And this 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.719 is something I need to work on obviously. I mean, 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:07.000 I date, I am not in an exclusive relationship, and 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.240 it just feels like both are slipping away from us, 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:13.920 you know, like it seems like your generation has a 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.839 different attitude. In my generation sometimes it feels like you 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:18.920 show up to the table with animus what does this 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.560 person want for me? Men have an attitude sometimes of 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:23.880 what are you trying to. 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:24.360 Get from me? 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:27.640 Or you know, it's there's history and like bitterness built up. 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:30.160 I think women come to the table like why won't 0:10:30.200 --> 0:10:32.640 you let me love you? You know, And I just 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:34.959 I'm trying to figure out how to bridge that divide 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:38.440 your generation though, I have to say, it does not 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.440 seem like a value partnership at all. 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.400 I really don't know what happened. 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.440 I talk about this a lot on our podcast, like 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.280 it seems okay, don't get me wrong, I know, I 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.680 said I think marriage, you know, Ultimately, it is a contract, 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:53.080 and you do need to be able to go into 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:55.200 a situation saying like are. 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:55.760 We going to do this? 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.320 Because if the i RS come and you donet does 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.640 something stupid like I don't want to be attached to it. 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.760 But at the same time, I think my generation specifically 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:08.319 is so obsessed with money and finances and it's unrealistic. 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.760 I'm like, what happened to just like a nice man 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.400 who had a stable job, But everybody want to be 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:15.880 a city girl and everybody wants to be taken care of. 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.160 They want a soft life, but no one's thinking about 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:19.720 the compromise. 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:20.880 I think that's the decline. 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.120 I think that's where the disconnect is happening, Like people 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:25.480 don't want to compromise. Everyone thinks it's going to be 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:29.760 this perfect situation, which we know it's not, and they're 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:33.400 looking for something that's unrealistic. Like I think Michelle Obama 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:35.000 was talking about this. She was like, people don't want 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:36.680 to do the work. They just want like the wedding 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:39.640 and the flowers and they're pretty and then they're done. 0:11:39.760 --> 0:11:43.000 And that's I think that's why my generation, unfortunately is 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:43.880 very confused. 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:45.440 They've gotten caught up in the material. 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.680 Well, one of my favorite books that I read, Finding 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:51.080 Me by Viola Davis. It was such an amazing book 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:55.000 and she talks about love and partnership and marriage and 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.880 how she had to love herself. And she quotes an 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.600 episode of Golden Girls in the book where Dorothy's Warnak 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.559 is saying she wants someone to grow old with. And 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:07.680 that's the part that so many younger people don't like. 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:10.240 We want the cute, we want the suite and the fun, 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.160 but you know, we all might not look like missus 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:17.120 State when we're eighty one. You know, your body changes, 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.680 your face changes, You gain weight, you lose weight, you 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.120 get sick, you lose your hair. When I had the 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.040 fibroid surgery, I was losing my hair and I dealt 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:26.239 with that by myself. 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:27.400 It grew back, thankfully. 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:29.920 So at the time you get moles and hair grolls 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:31.839 out of them, you know, like you just grow old. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.360 And I fear that this younger generation that chases people 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.040 who look like mannequins on Instagram, they are not even 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.800 prepared for that. Because we have such a seasoned, experienced 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:45.360 women here. What advice do you give us as young women, 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.200 Younger women who want to get married, but maybe we 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.040 don't know what we're signing up for. It's not a 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:52.800 long first date, it's a life commitment. 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:56.960 For young women today, they have a lot more optioned. 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.679 When I was young, you were expected to get at marriage, 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.720 you go to high school and not even necessarily go 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:07.720 to college if you get married and you have children. 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.640 And nowadays, I think one of the reasons why that 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:16.199 number is dwindling is because women, especially Black women, are 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:21.120 the most progressive in terms of graduating from college and 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.360 in their careers and everything. It's not like you have 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:28.520 to have a man to take care of yourself, whereas 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:30.440 when I was younger, there are a lot of women 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:35.240 to take care They needed a husband to financially exist 0:13:35.360 --> 0:13:38.880 in this world, whereas you don't have that now. And 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.360 also maybe when I was in my twenties or thirties, 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:46.040 the emphasis was on not me too. It was the 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:50.560 me generation looking out for number one. So I think 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.440 the whole mentality that had something to do with the 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:59.080 mentality of being married, and it has impacted that. Also, 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:01.720 that is not something that you have to do. 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.720 Yeah, but I don't feel like I have to get 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.640 married at this big age in life. But It is 0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:12.480 a desire I have and something that I've navigated in dating. 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:14.480 I'm sure you're going through this with the young man 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:16.400 you're dating, but we talked about. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:16.920 This a little bit before. 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:19.920 It's a whole other person, you know, It's a whole 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.560 other human being who has a whole different perspective. And 0:14:23.800 --> 0:14:26.960 the thing that surprises me most about intimacy with another 0:14:27.040 --> 0:14:30.920 person outside of physical intimacy, but this person can ruin 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.680 my whole day, you know, with a text message or 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:37.040 a phone call. This person can make a decision that 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:40.680 casts a dark shadow over my week. And that kind 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:46.600 of like open, raw access to me is intimidating, it's frightening, 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.600 and it's like I'm giving you every tool to hurt me, 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.400 and I'm trusting that you will not that it requires 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:54.120 a lot of trust. 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:55.760 Do you have that kind of trust with your man? 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:57.160 It's something that I'm working on. 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.680 And it's funny that you said that because I just 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.840 was talking to my therapist about this. It's a level 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.800 of vulnerability that I've never wanted to have and. 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.360 Be so open. I'll give you a little story, like 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:10.080 began to. 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:11.960 An argument over the silliest thing, like where we were 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:13.840 going to go on a date, and he like changed 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:15.160 where it was going to be, and I was like, 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:16.600 but I planned it, and now you're trying to do 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:18.800 something else, Like this is so unfair. You're not thinking 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:20.800 about how I'm thinking about it. And so I just 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.280 shut down completely and I was like, we're not going nowhere, 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:24.800 and I'm about to go out with my friends and 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:26.280 I'm not even going to come home. And I just 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.240 wanted to go straight to like anger and resentment and 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.640 to make him feel bad. And then I realized I 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:36.520 didn't have the vulnerability to say you hurt my feelings, 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:37.960 and that was really what it was. 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:38.680 Yeah. 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.560 I think that's very important because a lot of time 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.600 we take for granted women communicate differently with each other 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.760 than men and women, and a lot of time when men, 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.359 you have to be if it's something on your mind, 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.040 it's the last thing on their mind. You can't sit 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.040 there and be angry. You need to have a conversation 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:00.120 and in flint, if something bothers you, you need to 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.840 discuss it and talk about it and after a while 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:05.640 they get where you're coming from. But I think a 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.120 lot of time we just expect men to automatically be 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:13.120 perfect and maybe if they were single or on their own, 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:15.760 they behave you would be perfect. But then you have 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:19.000 to like, it's two of us here, so it's given thing. 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:22.840 But if it's something bothers, you just have the conversation 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.640 with them. And it's very surprising. 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.280 How a light bubble turn on and yeah. 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:32.240 You know that, and that issue may go away. 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.600 They made a good point though about hurt feelings, and 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.200 I'm curious from you after sixty one years, clearly there's 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.480 been some hurt feelings at some point in your marriage. 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.200 I'm sure if you can recall a time where you 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.880 were the most hurt by your husband. He hurts you 0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.240 the most, cuts you the deepest. How did you can 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.000 share what you want to about that time, but how 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:52.520 did you survive that pain? 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:54.000 How'd you get past it? 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.240 I would say when we were young, we went through, 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.800 but also when my daughters got older and they were 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.600 off to college and everything. And I remember clearly being 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.760 home one night and my husband wasn't there, and I 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.160 was just sitting in the bed and I said, wow, 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:13.760 it was like so quiet in here. It was just 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.480 me and my thoughts, and I said, wow, this is 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.200 a whole new phase of life. That I'm going through, 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.320 and so now it made me have to pay more 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:28.520 attention to my relationship with my husband, which when you're 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:30.960 raising children a lot of times you missed like a 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:35.200 lot of things. So things weren't running smoothly or anything. 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:37.560 And we hung in there for a while. But by 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.600 the time my daughters had graduated, he and I just 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:46.200 were not on the same page and we separated now. 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.040 And it took a while for him. He was supposed 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:49.000 to leave, but he didn't leave. 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.200 So I was the one that went and looked for 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:56.760 an apartment and I left. And to show you something 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.720 about my husband, he's very funny. Everybody loved him. He 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.720 has a great sense of humor and he is very, 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:06.879 very charming. So when I looked for an apartment, I 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.000 took my little grandson with me, Robbie. I was looking 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.000 at apartments and he was about three years old. And 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:16.920 then when we came back home, everybody was home. He said, Grandma, 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.479 and I found an apartment and we're moving. 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:23.760 It could be a sitcom. 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.600 But we were separated for a while, and I clearly 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.359 remember my husband calling me one day because my older 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:32.560 daughters were still with him. 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.360 The three they were living together, both. 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.840 Of them graduated for Kyle, all of their friends by 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:41.040 the house and everything. And then my husband he called 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:45.680 me on the phone and he said, Sandy, how come. 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:50.800 I got custody of the kids the phone? I said, 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.040 what kid did? Twenty four? 0:18:55.680 --> 0:19:00.240 But like with him, I think the humor after a while, well, 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:05.400 he is so funny and so charming, and today we 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:09.080 have the best relationship that we've ever had. We finally 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:11.880 found our way back to each other, and I think 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:13.800 it was through our grandsons had. 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:14.960 A lot to do with it too. 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:16.240 Did you ever do therapy? 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:23.439 No, no therapy, no therapy, you said, your grandkids. But 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:25.840 what was the conversation between you and your husband, like, 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.080 how did you reconnect? How did you find your way 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:28.840 back to each other? 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:32.320 Well, slowly, but surely we would run into because we 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.000 still did a lot of things together as a family. 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:38.800 We still did all of those things together. Through the years, it. 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:42.479 Seemed like he started recognizing he had more empty and 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:47.199