WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: Cindy Blackman Santana 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.080 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:11.280 What's going on, y'all? This is another episode of Quest 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:13.800 Love Supreme. I'm your host Quest Love. We're here with 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:18.120 Team Supreme Laya. Hello, Hi, how are you this morning? 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.160 I'm so excited because it's two of my favorite drummers 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:21.720 of all time are on the same call. It's really 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:23.200 kind of mind blowing. I'm losing my ship. 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:24.279 Thank you all. 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:29.280 I'm Pete Bill. How are you from your weekend excursion? Yeah, 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:29.680 I'm good. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:31.280 I'm slick to be here too. I always feel like 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:33.680 the episodes where we get like real drummer heavy are 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:35.479 always kind of fun to watch. You sort of like 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:37.880 half sweat, half not sweat. The whole thing is great. 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:41.880 There's like lots of emulation, lots of it's awesome because 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:44.479 like we do with like real heavy chopping drummers and 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:46.519 like groove drummers, all kinds of drummers. 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:48.879 I'm excited about it. I'm into it. There you go, 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:53.680 all right? Yeah, Well, as Bill has already cuge you guys, 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:56.320 then we can call the Davy give the drummers some 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:01.920 Yaho episode. Our guest today, for four plus decades, has 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:05.560 been blown on my minds. Basically, it's only apropos that 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:08.240 we say give the Drummer sum because it's so weird. 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.120 That title has been such an important calling card for 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:13.959 people of our craft, but I've yet to see anyone 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:18.760 actually title their album give the Drummer some until now. 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:24.520 As I said, for legendary decades of drumming behind some 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.920 of the greatest acts of our time. I will say 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:32.200 that the majority of the earth might know her via 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:36.119 her tenure with Lenny Kravitz, but there's so much more. 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.240 Even though I've known of her legend for all my 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:44.080 professional life, we've never had a direct conversation, and it's 0:01:44.160 --> 0:01:46.560 time to break that ice. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, please 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:48.480 welcome to the quest Love of Supreme, the one and 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:52.080 only Cindy Blackman Santana. Thank you, what's going. 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.600 On so much? It's such an honor to be here 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:56.480 with you. I'm very excited. 0:01:57.440 --> 0:01:59.760 Were you located right now? What part of the world 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:00.080 are you? 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.200 And doing great? And I'm in Las Vegas right now? 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:04.960 Okay, you're in Vegas? 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.520 Okay, yeah, I just saw her. Tony Is that an 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.120 AMP back there to Tony Williams Play or Die? 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:15.280 Yes? Oh, yes, I believe that's album. 0:02:15.400 --> 0:02:16.520 That's an album album. 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:18.000 Yeah. 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:19.799 Do you reside in Vegas right now? 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:21.440 Or yes? 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:27.160 Yeah, explain to me, because you know, I literally like 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:31.560 just got off the plane an hour ago from Los 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.720 Angeles and that was the first time now even though 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:37.720 there was an event happening. Of course, this taping is 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:41.480 way after. But I was coming back from the Emmys, 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:47.240 and I'm seeming to notice that La is getting rather 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:53.480 uh empty, if you will, Everyone is relocating to Las Vegas. 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:55.880 What is it about Vegas that I don't know? Because 0:02:56.919 --> 0:02:59.840 or am I only visiting the Times Square of Vegas 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:02.360 not seeing the rest of Vegas? What is it about 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:06.800 Vegas that's calling the professional world? Because that's pretty much 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:07.959 where everyone's living now. 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:10.520 There's a lot going on in Las Vegas. I mean, 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:14.280 it's definitely the Times Square. It's lights and glitz and glamour. 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:18.040 But firstly, outside of Las Vegas, and we live like 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:23.239 thirty minutes from there from the Strip, it's very peaceful, 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:26.760 it's very calm. I think that, you know, a big 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:29.200 draw for a lot of people is that it's a 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:33.520 hub because you get people coming from all over the world, 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.760 you know, to come to Las Vegas for you know, 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:38.480 casinos and shows and whatever. 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:40.840 So you know, there's a big. 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:45.640 Chance to get a lot of exposure globally just by 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.560 being here because of the amount of people in traffic 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:50.680 and you know, the types of people that you're run into. 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:54.280 So for business, it's good for that. Also, the cost 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:59.560 of living is a lot lower, like significantly, right. 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.280 Yeahficantly lower, and so you know, if you want to 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.760 have like, you know, some space and get a building 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:08.760 and do something, it's much easier to do it here. 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.240 So a lot of people are flocking here, and it's 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:17.159 pretty amazing because you know it's I was thinking, you know, 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:21.320 recently and you akin this to Los Angeles, the traffic 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:24.279 is becoming like Los Angeles. 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.440 Yeah. I was going to say, is there a concern 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:31.640 that Vegas will soon like the property values will go up? Like, well, 0:04:31.680 --> 0:04:34.719 the gentrification effect hit Vegas, like at first it was 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:39.920 everyone's little secret and then everyone's moving there, So is 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:43.560 there a concern that this is no longer like the 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.920 little secret anymore? Or because even now I know that 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:53.040 there's two major movie companies that are absolutely like setting 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:57.320 up shop inside of Las Vegas. So for all intensive purposes, 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:01.800 I would think that by twenty twenty eight, Vegas will 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.080 pretty much just be Hollywood. So is there is there 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:09.000 a concern that that is what it's going to turn to? 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.440 Thus people will be like, all right, well let's let's 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.719 go to Arizona. Now that Vegas has been. 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:19.840 Arizona is already a plan B for some people they 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:20.599 call athletes. 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.279 Yeah, I was going to say, Arizona is the athlete. 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:25.720 So probably New Mexico. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.560 Well, New Mexico, That's what I was just about to say. 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:29.520 And Mayor during COVID, a lot of artists moved to 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.240 New Mexico, right trip, and Cindy, did you know about that? 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:34.520 A lot of people are moving to New Mexico and 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.040 things push out, you know, I mean I saw that 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.440 happen in New York City because you know, you had Manhattan, 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:42.080 which is a hub, and then you know, people started 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:45.760 pushing out into Williamsburg and to Brooklyn, other parts of 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.599 Brooklyn rather and other boroughs, and it just keeps pushing 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:49.960 out and pushing out and pushing out. 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:55.000 And that's what's happening here. I mean, it's becoming a real. 0:05:56.320 --> 0:06:01.640 Kind of collective space for some many people in so 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:06.120 many different areas. You know, of business, of arts, you know, 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:08.240 so that's probably gonna happen. 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.080 Are you in a Joshuita Tree kind of isolated place 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:14.680 or is it the city. 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.880 We're not Joshua Tree, but almost, you know, I mean, 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.400 because we're like, as I was saying, thirty minutes out 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:27.000 from the strip. So you know, we're enough far enough 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:30.359 away from that that we don't have to know about 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.280 any of that if we don't want to, you know. 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:36.040 And it's interesting because here there's a there's a community 0:06:36.200 --> 0:06:41.880 of people who want to help society, who want to 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:45.400 help raise consciousness level. Because you think of Las Vegas 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:47.680 as just this. I mean I used to, because I 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:49.720 would just like you, you know, I would come in and 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:52.960 show sick snow, see my hotel room. 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:54.280 Get on the bus or get on the plane and 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:55.400 get out and that would be it. 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:57.240 And I'm like, oh, I don't like this because I 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.800 don't like smoke, I don't like all that, you know, damblance. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:01.839 So for me, it's like, Okay, let me do my 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:05.280 show and get out of here. But living here, you 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:10.280 see another aspect, and you see a whole other level 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:16.880 of not only compassion but desire to really help people. 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.480 You know, there's an organization called Three Squares here which 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.040 feeds millions of people. 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:28.920 I think today they've fed over four million people, especially children, 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.640 like during the week and then on the weekends they 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.160 give them backpacks of food to take home in case, 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:35.360 you know, they need to eat. 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:41.720 There's another place called cassade Louse and this minister and 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:46.320 his wife, they started this kind of small little refuge 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.760 for children because it's in an area that initially was 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.400 very seedy area and the people that hung out in 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.320 those areas they were doing what human beings doing they do. 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.040 They still were having children. A lot those children were 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:06.480 either mentally physically neglected or just neglected because the parents 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:09.560 just weren't there, you know, and so what's going to 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:11.960 happen to those children? So these people opened up. 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.320 A space for them to It's not large enough for 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:17.200 them to live there, but they can go there and 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.160 get meals or just you know commune or you know, 0:08:20.240 --> 0:08:21.480 have a safe space. 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:24.160 To go to. And you know, there are several places 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:27.520 like that here, which is something that I didn't think 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:31.080 I would see in las I guess, but it's a 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:33.400 beautiful thing. So there are a lot of aspects here 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:34.440 to this area. 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:39.719 Yeah, anytime someone challenged me about, well, you know, next 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:41.320 time you come to Vegas, come to Da da Da 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:42.760 Da dah. I'll see the rot of it, you know 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:44.400 that sort of thing. And I'm like, all right, I'll 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.120 do it. And then I fall into that trap of 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:51.120 just staying in my hotel room until you get the 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:53.200 not where it's time to go to sound check, and 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:53.800 then you know. 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.439 It's probably a beautiful indigenous community there too, amir. 0:08:58.000 --> 0:08:59.920 I'm for it, man, I'm looking forward to this. 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:02.520 Let us know when you want to explore. We got 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:04.200 an area that you can come and check out. 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.439 Nice. Nice, Could you tell me what is your first 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:10.280 musical memory in life? 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.800 My first musical memory is when I was in Ohio, 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:15.840 which is where I'm from, Yellow Springs. 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:17.120 Yellow Springs. 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:21.960 Yeah, you know what I'll say that. You know Chappelle, 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.760 he could talk anybody into anything, because that's the type 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:29.480 of gift he has. But during the pandemic, those trips 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:33.120 of Yellow Springs, you know, it was such a welcome 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.559 relief to sort of the stress of what the pandemic 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:42.320 was in twenty twenty, so there was half a second 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:46.600 where I was considering getting a house in Yellow Springs. 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.880 I'm still not against the idea. You know, I know 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:53.160 that quality lives out there. I know Dave convinced a 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.720 few people in this community to buy property out there 0:09:55.800 --> 0:10:00.880 and whatnot. So was it always a hippie friendly town 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:04.920 since since the get or was that a recent development. 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:06.560 Oh no, it's always been that way. 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:11.280 It's always been a really cool little oasis in a 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:13.360 very conservative state. 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:22.040 Yeah. I was like those nine blocks exactly. Yeah, it's 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.840 like a taste of heaven. Like Oh, I was like, 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:26.760 I can get used to this. And then I took 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:30.760 the wrong Yeah. Yeah, and I saw the wrong president. 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.920 I was like right, yeah, I was like, uh no, 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:37.400 let me, let me get back to this, the blue 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:42.240 Blue section. Yeah. So what was your first musical memory there? 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:46.960 Well, there were a couple with my dad because he 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:50.760 didn't play an instrument, but he had a collection of 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.200 records because he liked jazz. So it was me sneaking 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.959 into his collection and listening and hearing the drums and 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:00.720 not knowing what that was because I was, you know, 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.959 like three and four, but really liking what I heard 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:06.439 and being drawn to that. 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:08.520 So you know, what were those records? 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.560 Yeah, he had a lot of Ama Jamal, he had 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:14.000 some and that was probably one of his favorite. 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:19.640 He had Miles records, He had some Coltrane records. Those 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:24.600 were his his like favorite three artists, you know, which 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:28.080 was a great introduction for me. He had modern jazz quartet. 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:28.480 You know. 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:32.240 He had a kind of a nice little niche of stuff, 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:34.800 and so I would sneak in there and you know, 0:11:35.040 --> 0:11:38.560 listen to probably scratch some of the albums because I 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:40.880 was too young to really you know, take care of 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:45.040 him well. But yeah, that's probably my first and you know, 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:50.120 maybe my second would would be taking a piano piano 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:54.360 lesson with my grandmother who was a classical pianist, and 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.240 hanging out with my uncle, who was a musician as well. 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.680 Were drums the first weapon of choice for you or 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:05.160 what was the first instrument that you gravitated towards. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:06.680 Oh, definitely drums. 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:11.200 Yeah, and I took a lesson on piano with my grandmother, 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.960 But yeah, drums was always the thing that attracted me. 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:18.520 Were you encouraged to pursue it, because I know that 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:24.840 around the early nineties, especially once you know this long 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.800 after Gina Shock and you and Sheila sort of like 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.000 forged the path. But there was a period when even 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.040 when I was a kid in which teachers would actually 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:38.559 kind of maybe not being aware of how toxic it was, 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:41.280 but you know, they would actually say like, well, you know, 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:44.200 wanted to do the drums, like that's a girl thing, 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:48.240 and you know that, well yeah, I mean not that, 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:50.319 not that explicit, but. 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:54.560 I would have never thought that about the opposite. 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.400 I remember, like in third grade, like someone wanting to 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.000 play the drums or whatever, and you know, kind of 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:03.680 joke like you should you want to do the drums, 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:05.880 like you know you want to come as in, like 0:13:06.040 --> 0:13:07.920 you should you want to come to the boys club, 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:11.920 and that I think you plan in my head that like, oh, 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:16.520 drums are just masculine only, which okay, is the opposite. 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:22.400 Yeah, you know what, I got lucky because my teachers 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:25.200 didn't say that in school, and I played in whatever 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:28.200 little bands I could play in in school, the speech band, 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.880 concert man, the pio orchestra, the orchestra, I did the 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:34.800 electronic music class, and I didn't hear that from from 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:39.240 those teachers. I didn't hear that from my immediate family 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:43.240 at home. All I heard was that drums are loud, 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.319 and they're expensive and we can't. 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:48.400 Afford them, and you know, you need a lot of 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.559 you know, I didn't. I didn't hear the antagonistic stuff 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:59.280 until I started going out and doing professional gigs. And 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.680 my first professional gig was when I was thirteen. I 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.840 remember I was playing with this kind of funk rock 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:09.400 trio and we. 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.960 Our first gig was in this bar. This was when 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.600 we moved. We had already moved out of Ohio. We 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.000 were living in Connecticut at that time, so now we're 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.080 on the East coast and were playing in this bar. 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.520 And I started to get these comments from older men 0:14:24.720 --> 0:14:26.760 who were in the in the bar, and they were like, 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:27.920 you know, why. 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:29.400 Are you doing this? This is this is not you 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:30.600 shouldn't be doing this. You're a girl. 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.120 And you know, I started hearing stuff like that. It 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.920 certainly affected me. You know, I was kind of like 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.640 tearing up. Why would they say that to me? And 0:14:38.720 --> 0:14:40.920 so but you know what, I had a big There 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:41.800 was a big lesson for. 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:45.120 Me because I went home and I. 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.480 Reset my drums up in the basement and I started 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.880 playing and I forgot all about it, and I said, oh, 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:53.360 so what they. 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:56.120 Think, Madam doesn't matter at all. 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.160 I got to ask, because it feels like you and 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.960 Terry Lynn Carr are not that far in age group, 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.000 So it seems like are things going parallel at the time, 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:08.960 because you said at thirteen, she started around twelve. 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.640 Was there ever, Were you aware of each other or yeah. 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.240 Not at all. Actually, I was not aware of her 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:17.600 until She's a little bit younger than me. But I 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.720 wasn't aware of her until I went to Berkeley and 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:26.120 I was sitting in the hallway waiting for my lesson 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:32.000 with Lenny Nelson, and she was not a college age 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:34.160 at this point. Maybe she was in high school. I 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.560 don't remember, but I know she wasn't in college. And 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.560 in walks this gentleman with this young young lady. I 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:44.080 don't think the mother was there. I think it was 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.920 just her and her father. I think they were coming 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:48.360 to see Lenny as well. 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.320 And the father introduced me and he said I was 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:55.000 a drummer, and you know, so that's how we first met. 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.880 Okay, that's what's upped. Well, you mentioned Miles earlier. When 0:15:59.880 --> 0:16:02.920 I first became aware of you, I was like, well, 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:07.080 she must be a Tony disciple because of your relationships 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:10.400 to the symbols, you know, Tony Williams being one of 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.480 the well, you know, I call this drum style of 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:21.440 drumming beautifully violent. He's yes, his relationships to crashings is 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:26.040 all this, Yeah, exactly Who was your north star in 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:30.600 terms of like your drumming top five if you will, 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.200 Like who'd you gravitate towards? Who were your favorite drummers? 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:39.280 My favorite drummers were Art Laky, Max Roach, Owen Jones, 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:45.560 Tony Williams, and then the Fifth at that point when 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.760 I was like thirteen, the fifth kind of shifted around 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.440 a little bit, but you know, those were certainly the 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:53.400 top four. 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:58.160 And then I started to come into knowing Ray Haines, 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:00.240 and then you know, I was listen. 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.440 And still still playing and looking like he's maybe sixty 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:06.119 eight or something. 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.080 My dad, I'm gonna tell y'all for my dad is 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:09.960 the drummers well Sandy and he's friends with Roy and 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:11.399 he's like, I don't know why y'all would take us 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:13.480 so long to have Royal on And I'm like, I 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:14.920 is he read it? Can? 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.919 Yes, he's fluent, like I saw Roy for his ninety 0:17:19.000 --> 0:17:24.480 ninth birthday, like it I think in five months, I believe. 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:29.480 I love It's incredible. Yeah, he's he's so amazing. Uncle Roy. 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.640 He's he's got so much. 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:34.480 I mean, he's just done so much in the music 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:39.400 and you know, influenced so many people. It's interesting because, 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:43.600 you know, when I first heard those drummers that I 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:48.480 that I mentioned, I heard Elvin first, and I heard 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.840 him before hearing Art Blakey, and as a child, I 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.760 thought it was swapped around in my head because I. 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:59.719 Thought, I thought that Blakey came from Elvin, you know. 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.199 And as I was listening more and as I was 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:09.240 as my social life was expanding to you know, other 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:14.320 friends who were also listening, they were like no. And 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:18.080 then I started studying when I'm like, oh, okay, and 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:23.320 then I saw that both Elvin and Roy came from Art, 0:18:23.680 --> 0:18:25.960 but they just like this, they did two different things, 0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:28.639 you know with that triplet, because Elvin played the closed 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.080 triplets and Whey played those open triplets, but they both 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:36.440 came from him and just went into kind of different 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:38.280 directions with that, you know. 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.040 So that was amazing thing to me too, to really 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.800 key in on that with those two drummers. And of 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:53.240 course I call her Blakey Everybody's daddy. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:55.680 I was really close with Art. He used to call 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.080 me his daughter. I called him Papa, and you know 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:03.280 I used to babysit for his children. So I was 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:06.160 at the house all the time. And when I first 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.320 met him, I had done a gig with two people 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:13.760 introduced me to Art, and one was Evelyn Laky, his daughter. 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.520 She was a singer and I was doing some gigs 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:19.480 with her and she taped some of the gigs and 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.359 she gave him a recording of one of the gigs 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.280 that we did together. So it was through that avenue, 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.480 and then it was also through Wallace Roni because Wallace 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:33.639 started playing with him, and Wallace mentioned him to me 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:37.960 and invited me to a record session that Art was doing, 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.760 and so that he was doing with Art, and it 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.160 was with this was two drummers. 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.919 George Kawasaki I think his name was was. 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:49.760 For a Japanese label, so it was George Kawasaki and 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.240 the Jazz Messengers, And so I went to this session. 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:55.480 I was hanging out and Art didn't even remember my 0:19:55.560 --> 0:20:02.480 name at that time. He just called me his redhead friend. 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.840 Oftentimes, on this show, especially when we talk to musicians, 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:17.680 if it's singers, usually the story is, you know, they're 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.760 in a gospel only household and they occasionally had to 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:27.119 sneak to listen to air quote secular music. But with 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:32.480 jazz officionados, were you strictly just gravitated to jazz and 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:38.240 jazz only or was anything pop having any effect on 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.639 you or anything soul having an effect on you? Or 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.040 was that just incidental background music for you and when 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:48.399 you were like practicing your craft, it was only jazz music. 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.119 The first stuff was kind of all the pop stuff. 0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:52.800 In fact, I was going to beat the drummer with 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:55.520 the Jackson five. In my head, I was the drummer 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.679 that I was going to be the sixth Jackson? Are 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:01.760 you kid? I was going to be that drummer. 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:06.000 But you know, I was lucky because I have a 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.879 senior sister who loved music. She was a singer at 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:11.800 the time. In fact, she even sang with the Brides 0:21:11.840 --> 0:21:16.800 of Funkenstein. She had like two hundred records in her collection, 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:24.639 everybody from James Brown to the Beatles to Coltrane, Miles Yes, and. 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:28.840 So I would raid her collection. So I grew up 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:32.720 hearing a whole bunch of stuff like and people say, well, 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:36.439 how can you as a jazz drummer, I want to 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:39.280 play pop or want to play rock or want to 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.240 play with Lenny or I like that music. I grew 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:44.720 up with that, you know. So for me, the first 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:49.159 stuff that I was practicing heavily was actually not jazz. 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:51.000 It was rock and pop stuff. 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:53.560 And then I started to you know, a friend of 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:55.520 mine who was an older drummer friend of our family, 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.360 he said, you know, you really got to check out 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.639 Max Roach, and so he wrote out this pattern on 0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:05.120 a piece of paper which was match playing a ride 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.800 symbol pattern two and four of sock symbol. He was 0:22:07.800 --> 0:22:10.320 feathering the bass drum on all fours and playing triplets 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:11.440 in the left hand. 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:13.480 I was like, whoa. 0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:18.760 Versus stew four? Yes, I was the only one that 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:19.480 had to go through that. 0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:22.080 Okay, should I ask that? Should I just leave this 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:22.760 moment in between? 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:27.119