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Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: What's going on, y'all? This is another episode of Quest

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Speaker 2: Love Supreme. I'm your host Quest Love. We're here with

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Speaker 2: Team Supreme Laya. Hello, Hi, how are you this morning?

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited because it's two of my favorite drummers

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Speaker 3: of all time are on the same call. It's really

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Speaker 3: kind of mind blowing. I'm losing my ship.

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Speaker 4: Thank you all.

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Speaker 2: I'm Pete Bill. How are you from your weekend excursion? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm good.

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Speaker 5: I'm slick to be here too. I always feel like

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Speaker 5: the episodes where we get like real drummer heavy are

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Speaker 5: always kind of fun to watch. You sort of like

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Speaker 5: half sweat, half not sweat. The whole thing is great.

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Speaker 5: There's like lots of emulation, lots of it's awesome because

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Speaker 5: like we do with like real heavy chopping drummers and

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Speaker 5: like groove drummers, all kinds of drummers.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited about it. I'm into it. There you go,

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Speaker 2: all right? Yeah, Well, as Bill has already cuge you guys,

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Speaker 2: then we can call the Davy give the drummers some

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Speaker 2: Yaho episode. Our guest today, for four plus decades, has

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Speaker 2: been blown on my minds. Basically, it's only apropos that

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Speaker 2: we say give the Drummer sum because it's so weird.

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Speaker 2: That title has been such an important calling card for

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Speaker 2: people of our craft, but I've yet to see anyone

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Speaker 2: actually title their album give the Drummer some until now.

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Speaker 2: As I said, for legendary decades of drumming behind some

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Speaker 2: of the greatest acts of our time. I will say

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Speaker 2: that the majority of the earth might know her via

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Speaker 2: her tenure with Lenny Kravitz, but there's so much more.

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Speaker 2: Even though I've known of her legend for all my

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Speaker 2: professional life, we've never had a direct conversation, and it's

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Speaker 2: time to break that ice. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, please

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Speaker 2: welcome to the quest Love of Supreme, the one and

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Speaker 2: only Cindy Blackman Santana. Thank you, what's going.

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Speaker 4: On so much? It's such an honor to be here

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Speaker 4: with you. I'm very excited.

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Speaker 2: Were you located right now? What part of the world

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Speaker 2: are you?

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Speaker 4: And doing great? And I'm in Las Vegas right now?

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Speaker 2: Okay, you're in Vegas?

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Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I just saw her. Tony Is that an

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Speaker 3: AMP back there to Tony Williams Play or Die?

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Speaker 2: Yes? Oh, yes, I believe that's album.

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Speaker 3: That's an album album.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Do you reside in Vegas right now?

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Speaker 4: Or yes?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, explain to me, because you know, I literally like

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Speaker 2: just got off the plane an hour ago from Los

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Speaker 2: Angeles and that was the first time now even though

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Speaker 2: there was an event happening. Of course, this taping is

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Speaker 2: way after. But I was coming back from the Emmys,

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Speaker 2: and I'm seeming to notice that La is getting rather

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Speaker 2: uh empty, if you will, Everyone is relocating to Las Vegas.

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Speaker 2: What is it about Vegas that I don't know? Because

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Speaker 2: or am I only visiting the Times Square of Vegas

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Speaker 2: not seeing the rest of Vegas? What is it about

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Speaker 2: Vegas that's calling the professional world? Because that's pretty much

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Speaker 2: where everyone's living now.

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Speaker 6: There's a lot going on in Las Vegas. I mean,

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Speaker 6: it's definitely the Times Square. It's lights and glitz and glamour.

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Speaker 6: But firstly, outside of Las Vegas, and we live like

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Speaker 6: thirty minutes from there from the Strip, it's very peaceful,

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Speaker 6: it's very calm. I think that, you know, a big

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Speaker 6: draw for a lot of people is that it's a

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Speaker 6: hub because you get people coming from all over the world,

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Speaker 6: you know, to come to Las Vegas for you know,

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Speaker 6: casinos and shows and whatever.

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Speaker 4: So you know, there's a big.

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Speaker 6: Chance to get a lot of exposure globally just by

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Speaker 6: being here because of the amount of people in traffic

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Speaker 6: and you know, the types of people that you're run into.

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Speaker 4: So for business, it's good for that. Also, the cost

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Speaker 4: of living is a lot lower, like significantly, right.

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Speaker 6: Yeahficantly lower, and so you know, if you want to

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Speaker 6: have like, you know, some space and get a building

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Speaker 6: and do something, it's much easier to do it here.

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Speaker 6: So a lot of people are flocking here, and it's

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Speaker 6: pretty amazing because you know it's I was thinking, you know,

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Speaker 6: recently and you akin this to Los Angeles, the traffic

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Speaker 6: is becoming like Los Angeles.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I was going to say, is there a concern

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Speaker 2: that Vegas will soon like the property values will go up? Like, well,

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Speaker 2: the gentrification effect hit Vegas, like at first it was

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Speaker 2: everyone's little secret and then everyone's moving there, So is

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Speaker 2: there a concern that this is no longer like the

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Speaker 2: little secret anymore? Or because even now I know that

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Speaker 2: there's two major movie companies that are absolutely like setting

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Speaker 2: up shop inside of Las Vegas. So for all intensive purposes,

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Speaker 2: I would think that by twenty twenty eight, Vegas will

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Speaker 2: pretty much just be Hollywood. So is there is there

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Speaker 2: a concern that that is what it's going to turn to?

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Speaker 2: Thus people will be like, all right, well let's let's

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Speaker 2: go to Arizona. Now that Vegas has been.

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Speaker 3: Arizona is already a plan B for some people they

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Speaker 3: call athletes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, Arizona is the athlete.

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Speaker 2: So probably New Mexico.

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Speaker 3: Well, New Mexico, That's what I was just about to say.

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Speaker 3: And Mayor during COVID, a lot of artists moved to

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Speaker 3: New Mexico, right trip, and Cindy, did you know about that?

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Speaker 6: A lot of people are moving to New Mexico and

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Speaker 6: things push out, you know, I mean I saw that

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Speaker 6: happen in New York City because you know, you had Manhattan,

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Speaker 6: which is a hub, and then you know, people started

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Speaker 6: pushing out into Williamsburg and to Brooklyn, other parts of

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Speaker 6: Brooklyn rather and other boroughs, and it just keeps pushing

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Speaker 6: out and pushing out and pushing out.

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Speaker 4: And that's what's happening here. I mean, it's becoming a real.

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Speaker 6: Kind of collective space for some many people in so

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Speaker 6: many different areas. You know, of business, of arts, you know,

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Speaker 6: so that's probably gonna happen.

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Speaker 2: Are you in a Joshuita Tree kind of isolated place

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Speaker 2: or is it the city.

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Speaker 6: We're not Joshua Tree, but almost, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 6: because we're like, as I was saying, thirty minutes out

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Speaker 6: from the strip. So you know, we're enough far enough

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Speaker 6: away from that that we don't have to know about

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Speaker 6: any of that if we don't want to, you know.

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Speaker 6: And it's interesting because here there's a there's a community

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Speaker 6: of people who want to help society, who want to

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Speaker 6: help raise consciousness level. Because you think of Las Vegas

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Speaker 6: as just this. I mean I used to, because I

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Speaker 6: would just like you, you know, I would come in and

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Speaker 6: show sick snow, see my hotel room.

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Speaker 4: Get on the bus or get on the plane and

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Speaker 4: get out and that would be it.

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Speaker 6: And I'm like, oh, I don't like this because I

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Speaker 6: don't like smoke, I don't like all that, you know, damblance.

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Speaker 6: So for me, it's like, Okay, let me do my

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Speaker 6: show and get out of here. But living here, you

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Speaker 6: see another aspect, and you see a whole other level

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Speaker 6: of not only compassion but desire to really help people.

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Speaker 6: You know, there's an organization called Three Squares here which

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Speaker 6: feeds millions of people.

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Speaker 4: I think today they've fed over four million people, especially children,

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Speaker 4: like during the week and then on the weekends they

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Speaker 4: give them backpacks of food to take home in case,

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Speaker 4: you know, they need to eat.

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Speaker 6: There's another place called cassade Louse and this minister and

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Speaker 6: his wife, they started this kind of small little refuge

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Speaker 6: for children because it's in an area that initially was

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Speaker 6: very seedy area and the people that hung out in

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Speaker 6: those areas they were doing what human beings doing they do.

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Speaker 4: They still were having children. A lot those children were

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Speaker 4: either mentally physically neglected or just neglected because the parents

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Speaker 4: just weren't there, you know, and so what's going to

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Speaker 4: happen to those children? So these people opened up.

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Speaker 6: A space for them to It's not large enough for

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Speaker 6: them to live there, but they can go there and

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Speaker 6: get meals or just you know commune or you know,

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Speaker 6: have a safe space.

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Speaker 4: To go to. And you know, there are several places

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Speaker 4: like that here, which is something that I didn't think

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Speaker 4: I would see in las I guess, but it's a

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Speaker 4: beautiful thing. So there are a lot of aspects here

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Speaker 4: to this area.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, anytime someone challenged me about, well, you know, next

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Speaker 2: time you come to Vegas, come to Da da Da

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Speaker 2: Da dah. I'll see the rot of it, you know

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Speaker 2: that sort of thing. And I'm like, all right, I'll

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Speaker 2: do it. And then I fall into that trap of

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Speaker 2: just staying in my hotel room until you get the

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Speaker 2: not where it's time to go to sound check, and

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Speaker 2: then you know.

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Speaker 3: It's probably a beautiful indigenous community there too, amir.

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Speaker 2: I'm for it, man, I'm looking forward to this.

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Speaker 4: Let us know when you want to explore. We got

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Speaker 4: an area that you can come and check out.

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Speaker 2: Nice. Nice, Could you tell me what is your first

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Speaker 2: musical memory in life?

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Speaker 6: My first musical memory is when I was in Ohio,

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Speaker 6: which is where I'm from, Yellow Springs.

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Speaker 4: Yellow Springs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I'll say that. You know Chappelle,

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Speaker 2: he could talk anybody into anything, because that's the type

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Speaker 2: of gift he has. But during the pandemic, those trips

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Speaker 2: of Yellow Springs, you know, it was such a welcome

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Speaker 2: relief to sort of the stress of what the pandemic

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Speaker 2: was in twenty twenty, so there was half a second

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Speaker 2: where I was considering getting a house in Yellow Springs.

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Speaker 2: I'm still not against the idea. You know, I know

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Speaker 2: that quality lives out there. I know Dave convinced a

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Speaker 2: few people in this community to buy property out there

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Speaker 2: and whatnot. So was it always a hippie friendly town

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Speaker 2: since since the get or was that a recent development.

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Speaker 4: Oh no, it's always been that way.

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Speaker 6: It's always been a really cool little oasis in a

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Speaker 6: very conservative state.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I was like those nine blocks exactly. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: like a taste of heaven. Like Oh, I was like,

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Speaker 2: I can get used to this. And then I took

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Speaker 2: the wrong Yeah. Yeah, and I saw the wrong president.

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Speaker 2: I was like right, yeah, I was like, uh no,

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Speaker 2: let me, let me get back to this, the blue

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Speaker 2: Blue section. Yeah. So what was your first musical memory there?

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Speaker 6: Well, there were a couple with my dad because he

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Speaker 6: didn't play an instrument, but he had a collection of

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Speaker 6: records because he liked jazz. So it was me sneaking

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Speaker 6: into his collection and listening and hearing the drums and

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Speaker 6: not knowing what that was because I was, you know,

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Speaker 6: like three and four, but really liking what I heard

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Speaker 6: and being drawn to that.

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Speaker 2: So you know, what were those records?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, he had a lot of Ama Jamal, he had

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Speaker 6: some and that was probably one of his favorite.

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Speaker 4: He had Miles records, He had some Coltrane records. Those

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Speaker 4: were his his like favorite three artists, you know, which

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Speaker 4: was a great introduction for me. He had modern jazz quartet.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 6: He had a kind of a nice little niche of stuff,

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Speaker 6: and so I would sneak in there and you know,

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Speaker 6: listen to probably scratch some of the albums because I

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Speaker 6: was too young to really you know, take care of

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Speaker 6: him well. But yeah, that's probably my first and you know,

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Speaker 6: maybe my second would would be taking a piano piano

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Speaker 6: lesson with my grandmother who was a classical pianist, and

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Speaker 6: hanging out with my uncle, who was a musician as well.

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Speaker 2: Were drums the first weapon of choice for you or

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Speaker 2: what was the first instrument that you gravitated towards.

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Speaker 4: Oh, definitely drums.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and I took a lesson on piano with my grandmother,

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Speaker 6: But yeah, drums was always the thing that attracted me.

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Speaker 2: Were you encouraged to pursue it, because I know that

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Speaker 2: around the early nineties, especially once you know this long

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Speaker 2: after Gina Shock and you and Sheila sort of like

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Speaker 2: forged the path. But there was a period when even

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Speaker 2: when I was a kid in which teachers would actually

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Speaker 2: kind of maybe not being aware of how toxic it was,

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Speaker 2: but you know, they would actually say like, well, you know,

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Speaker 2: wanted to do the drums, like that's a girl thing,

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Speaker 2: and you know that, well yeah, I mean not that,

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Speaker 2: not that explicit, but.

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Speaker 3: I would have never thought that about the opposite.

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Speaker 2: I remember, like in third grade, like someone wanting to

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Speaker 2: play the drums or whatever, and you know, kind of

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Speaker 2: joke like you should you want to do the drums,

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Speaker 2: like you know you want to come as in, like

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Speaker 2: you should you want to come to the boys club,

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Speaker 2: and that I think you plan in my head that like, oh,

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Speaker 2: drums are just masculine only, which okay, is the opposite.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, you know what, I got lucky because my teachers

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Speaker 6: didn't say that in school, and I played in whatever

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Speaker 6: little bands I could play in in school, the speech band,

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Speaker 6: concert man, the pio orchestra, the orchestra, I did the

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Speaker 6: electronic music class, and I didn't hear that from from

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Speaker 6: those teachers. I didn't hear that from my immediate family

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Speaker 6: at home. All I heard was that drums are loud,

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Speaker 6: and they're expensive and we can't.

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Speaker 4: Afford them, and you know, you need a lot of

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Speaker 4: you know, I didn't. I didn't hear the antagonistic stuff

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Speaker 4: until I started going out and doing professional gigs. And

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Speaker 4: my first professional gig was when I was thirteen. I

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Speaker 4: remember I was playing with this kind of funk rock

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Speaker 4: trio and we.

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Speaker 6: Our first gig was in this bar. This was when

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Speaker 6: we moved. We had already moved out of Ohio. We

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Speaker 6: were living in Connecticut at that time, so now we're

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Speaker 6: on the East coast and were playing in this bar.

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Speaker 6: And I started to get these comments from older men

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Speaker 6: who were in the in the bar, and they were like,

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Speaker 6: you know, why.

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Speaker 4: Are you doing this? This is this is not you

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Speaker 4: shouldn't be doing this. You're a girl.

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Speaker 6: And you know, I started hearing stuff like that. It

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Speaker 6: certainly affected me. You know, I was kind of like

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Speaker 6: tearing up. Why would they say that to me? And

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Speaker 6: so but you know what, I had a big There

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Speaker 6: was a big lesson for.

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Speaker 4: Me because I went home and I.

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Speaker 6: Reset my drums up in the basement and I started

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Speaker 6: playing and I forgot all about it, and I said, oh,

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Speaker 6: so what they.

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Speaker 4: Think, Madam doesn't matter at all.

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Speaker 3: I got to ask, because it feels like you and

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Speaker 3: Terry Lynn Carr are not that far in age group,

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Speaker 3: So it seems like are things going parallel at the time,

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Speaker 3: because you said at thirteen, she started around twelve.

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Speaker 2: Was there ever, Were you aware of each other or yeah.

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Speaker 4: Not at all. Actually, I was not aware of her

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Speaker 4: until She's a little bit younger than me. But I

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Speaker 4: wasn't aware of her until I went to Berkeley and

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Speaker 4: I was sitting in the hallway waiting for my lesson

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Speaker 4: with Lenny Nelson, and she was not a college age

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Speaker 4: at this point. Maybe she was in high school. I

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Speaker 4: don't remember, but I know she wasn't in college. And

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Speaker 4: in walks this gentleman with this young young lady. I

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Speaker 4: don't think the mother was there. I think it was

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Speaker 4: just her and her father. I think they were coming

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Speaker 4: to see Lenny as well.

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Speaker 6: And the father introduced me and he said I was

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Speaker 6: a drummer, and you know, so that's how we first met.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's what's upped. Well, you mentioned Miles earlier. When

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Speaker 2: I first became aware of you, I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: she must be a Tony disciple because of your relationships

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Speaker 2: to the symbols, you know, Tony Williams being one of

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Speaker 2: the well, you know, I call this drum style of

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Speaker 2: drumming beautifully violent. He's yes, his relationships to crashings is

300
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Speaker 2: all this, Yeah, exactly Who was your north star in

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Speaker 2: terms of like your drumming top five if you will,

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Speaker 2: Like who'd you gravitate towards? Who were your favorite drummers?

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Speaker 4: My favorite drummers were Art Laky, Max Roach, Owen Jones,

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Speaker 4: Tony Williams, and then the Fifth at that point when

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Speaker 4: I was like thirteen, the fifth kind of shifted around

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Speaker 4: a little bit, but you know, those were certainly the

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Speaker 4: top four.

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Speaker 6: And then I started to come into knowing Ray Haines,

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Speaker 6: and then you know, I was listen.

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Speaker 2: And still still playing and looking like he's maybe sixty

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Speaker 2: eight or something.

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Speaker 3: My dad, I'm gonna tell y'all for my dad is

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Speaker 3: the drummers well Sandy and he's friends with Roy and

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Speaker 3: he's like, I don't know why y'all would take us

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Speaker 3: so long to have Royal on And I'm like, I

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Speaker 3: is he read it? Can?

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Speaker 2: Yes, he's fluent, like I saw Roy for his ninety

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Speaker 2: ninth birthday, like it I think in five months, I believe.

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Speaker 4: I love It's incredible. Yeah, he's he's so amazing. Uncle Roy.

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Speaker 4: He's he's got so much.

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Speaker 6: I mean, he's just done so much in the music

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Speaker 6: and you know, influenced so many people. It's interesting because,

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Speaker 6: you know, when I first heard those drummers that I

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Speaker 6: that I mentioned, I heard Elvin first, and I heard

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Speaker 6: him before hearing Art Blakey, and as a child, I

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Speaker 6: thought it was swapped around in my head because I.

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Speaker 4: Thought, I thought that Blakey came from Elvin, you know.

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Speaker 4: And as I was listening more and as I was

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Speaker 4: as my social life was expanding to you know, other

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Speaker 4: friends who were also listening, they were like no. And

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Speaker 4: then I started studying when I'm like, oh, okay, and

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Speaker 4: then I saw that both Elvin and Roy came from Art,

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Speaker 4: but they just like this, they did two different things,

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Speaker 4: you know with that triplet, because Elvin played the closed

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Speaker 4: triplets and Whey played those open triplets, but they both

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Speaker 4: came from him and just went into kind of different

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Speaker 4: directions with that, you know.

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Speaker 6: So that was amazing thing to me too, to really

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Speaker 6: key in on that with those two drummers. And of

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Speaker 6: course I call her Blakey Everybody's daddy. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Speaker 6: I was really close with Art. He used to call

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Speaker 6: me his daughter. I called him Papa, and you know

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Speaker 6: I used to babysit for his children. So I was

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Speaker 6: at the house all the time. And when I first

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Speaker 6: met him, I had done a gig with two people

346
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Speaker 6: introduced me to Art, and one was Evelyn Laky, his daughter.

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Speaker 6: She was a singer and I was doing some gigs

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Speaker 6: with her and she taped some of the gigs and

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Speaker 6: she gave him a recording of one of the gigs

350
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Speaker 6: that we did together. So it was through that avenue,

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Speaker 6: and then it was also through Wallace Roni because Wallace

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Speaker 6: started playing with him, and Wallace mentioned him to me

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Speaker 6: and invited me to a record session that Art was doing,

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Speaker 6: and so that he was doing with Art, and it

355
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Speaker 6: was with this was two drummers.

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Speaker 4: George Kawasaki I think his name was was.

357
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Speaker 6: For a Japanese label, so it was George Kawasaki and

358
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Speaker 6: the Jazz Messengers, And so I went to this session.

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Speaker 6: I was hanging out and Art didn't even remember my

360
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Speaker 6: name at that time. He just called me his redhead friend.

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Speaker 2: Oftentimes, on this show, especially when we talk to musicians,

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Speaker 2: if it's singers, usually the story is, you know, they're

363
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Speaker 2: in a gospel only household and they occasionally had to

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Speaker 2: sneak to listen to air quote secular music. But with

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Speaker 2: jazz officionados, were you strictly just gravitated to jazz and

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Speaker 2: jazz only or was anything pop having any effect on

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Speaker 2: you or anything soul having an effect on you? Or

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Speaker 2: was that just incidental background music for you and when

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Speaker 2: you were like practicing your craft, it was only jazz music.

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Speaker 4: The first stuff was kind of all the pop stuff.

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Speaker 4: In fact, I was going to beat the drummer with

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Speaker 4: the Jackson five. In my head, I was the drummer

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Speaker 4: that I was going to be the sixth Jackson? Are

374
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Speaker 4: you kid? I was going to be that drummer.

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Speaker 6: But you know, I was lucky because I have a

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Speaker 6: senior sister who loved music. She was a singer at

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Speaker 6: the time. In fact, she even sang with the Brides

378
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Speaker 6: of Funkenstein. She had like two hundred records in her collection,

379
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Speaker 6: everybody from James Brown to the Beatles to Coltrane, Miles Yes, and.

380
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Speaker 4: So I would raid her collection. So I grew up

381
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Speaker 4: hearing a whole bunch of stuff like and people say, well,

382
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Speaker 4: how can you as a jazz drummer, I want to

383
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Speaker 4: play pop or want to play rock or want to

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Speaker 4: play with Lenny or I like that music. I grew

385
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Speaker 4: up with that, you know. So for me, the first

386
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Speaker 4: stuff that I was practicing heavily was actually not jazz.

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Speaker 4: It was rock and pop stuff.

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Speaker 6: And then I started to you know, a friend of

389
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Speaker 6: mine who was an older drummer friend of our family,

390
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Speaker 6: he said, you know, you really got to check out

391
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Speaker 6: Max Roach, and so he wrote out this pattern on

392
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Speaker 6: a piece of paper which was match playing a ride

393
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Speaker 6: symbol pattern two and four of sock symbol. He was

394
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 6: feathering the bass drum on all fours and playing triplets

395
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Speaker 6: in the left hand.

396
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Speaker 4: I was like, whoa.

397
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Speaker 2: Versus stew four? Yes, I was the only one that

398
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Speaker 2: had to go through that.

399
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Speaker 3: Okay, should I ask that? Should I just leave this

400
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 3: moment in between?

401
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 2: Y'all? It's an exercise in which you can divide your brain,

402
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,840
Speaker 2: and most drum teaper teachers do this. So I was

403
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 2: going to say, like in my era of drumming, well,

404
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 2: it was the worst one. You go to this place

405
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 2: and you see this drum set in the corner and

406
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 2: it's sort of like, let me at it, let me

407
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,120
Speaker 2: add it, and the teacher be like no and then

408
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 2: turns over there. It's like a practice pad. No, and

409
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 2: then you gotta sit there and do put you know,

410
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 2: your siny jump set over there. But he's like in

411
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 2: the year you get to play on that. And so

412
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,360
Speaker 2: there's an exercise that can teach you how to do

413
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 2: different polyrhythms and so in other words, there's this exercise

414
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: where your foot is doing a four to four meter

415
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,880
Speaker 2: left right left right left, right, left right. So while

416
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 2: you're doing that left right left, your hands are doing

417
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 2: three one two two one two three, want two three,

418
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 2: want two three, And it's it's teaching your limbs, your hands,

419
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 2: and your feet to have yeah, yeah, and muscle memory

420
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: also at the same time. So but I would have

421
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 2: to do that for an hour. Literally, he would just

422
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,199
Speaker 2: read the paper. It's like, all right, go do you

423
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 2: think for an hour? Literally left right right, right, right,

424
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 2: right left left right left left right left left right

425
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 2: left left, and your foot's doing right left, right, left

426
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 2: right left right left right left at the same time.

427
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: So it's allegedly supposed to make you a better drummer.

428
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: House burning down. What five albums would you say, like,

429
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 2: what albums define your childhood?

430
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Speaker 4: They would be supreme, they would be four and more.

431
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 2: M Miles Davis four more, Yes, Miles.

432
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,200
Speaker 4: Davis four more. And if I go back a little further,

433
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Speaker 4: I'd have to say probably I used to listen to

434
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 4: Chaka Khan and Rufus a lot. So which album what's

435
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 4: the one would tell me something good on it? X

436
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 4: Rufus Rax to Rufus.

437
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 6: And there were a couple of Betty Davis albums that

438
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 6: I used to listen to.

439
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 4: All the time.

440
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 2: You to Betty Davis at the time, and oh yeah.

441
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 4: Because my sister, like I said, she was a singer

442
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 4: and that was one of her favorites. So I was

443
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 4: listening to Betty Davis all the time.

444
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 6: I'm a huge Betty Davis fan, Love love Betty Davis.

445
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there'll be a few. And then I used

446
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 4: to listen to Sometown Power Records a lot.

447
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 2: Dave all right, David.

448
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 4: David Gal used to listen to earth Wind and Fire

449
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 4: a lot. Okay, I saw them live actually a little

450
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 4: a little bit later. But you know, those were some

451
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 4: of the records that I listened to. And of course

452
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 4: I listened to every single Jackson Fire record, you know,

453
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 4: when I was really young. Those were some of the

454
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 4: records that I listened to in the very very very beginning.

455
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 2: Right, Sure, when did you leave Yellow Springs?

456
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 4: When I was eleven?

457
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 2: Okay, where did you move?

458
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 4: Connecticut? We moved to Bristol, Connecticut was the first place.

459
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 4: And at that point I had had little toy drum.

460
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,680
Speaker 6: Sets, never a real drum set yet, you know, just

461
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 6: getting these little kids that would justinege yeah, just break

462
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 6: up in like a day or two, and then I

463
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 6: have to beg for another one and have to wait

464
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 6: until my parents would give me another one.

465
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 4: And then when we moved to Connecticut, that's when I

466
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 4: got my Eventually, that's when I got my first student

467
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 4: model kit. But before that, when I didn't have a

468
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 4: drum kit, I found a little friend who was a drummer,

469
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 4: and I used to go to his house.

470
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 6: He lived across the fence from us, and there was

471
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 6: a hole in our fence in the fence of separating

472
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 6: these two neighborhoods, and seed to crawl under that fence

473
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 6: and go to his house, and we would put on records.

474
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 6: Like he was really into David Garbaldi, so we would

475
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 6: put on Tower Power records and we both plays.

476
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 4: Yes, he played to.

477
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 6: The song, and then I would play to the song,

478
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 6: and then you know, we would go and you know,

479
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,640
Speaker 6: it was really cool. He was pretty cool young kid

480
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 6: because he was already studying with Tyrone Lampkin and and

481
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 6: he was telling me, you know, like you know what

482
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 6: they were going through rudimentally. And then I joined a

483
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 6: fife and drum corps. So that actually was the first

484
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 6: band that I played in, was a fife and drum corps.

485
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 4: What is that, Cindy?

486
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 3: A fife and drum call?

487
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 4: Is that like a drum corp? You know, little little flutes, jones,

488
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 4: you know, the marching stuff.

489
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, gotcha.

490
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 2: Got So that's not like Florida A and N level right,

491
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 2: Austin the six up in the air and turn around

492
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: and playing. That's the way I like it. It's more

493
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:17,880
Speaker 2: like reenacting of of the Forefathers. Okay, wow, you're an anomaly.

494
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 2: So you've not mentioned the word church yet, so you've

495
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 2: had no beginning or foundation, like playing in your church choir,

496
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 2: none of those things. Like, yeah, it's very unusual to

497
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 2: find a black musician that somehow I didn't have to

498
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 2: go through that path of that journey, So you never

499
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 2: like were a player in a church or any of

500
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 2: those things.

501
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 4: I did play a little bit in my church.

502
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 6: And I started out in the choir and we were

503
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 6: singing something and I was belting out something so loud,

504
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 6: and the guy was like hey. He was like, hey, hey,

505
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 6: you know, and I said, usually i'd really rather played drums.

506
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 6: And he said you play drums and I said yeah.

507
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 6: So they let me bring my drums down and I played.

508
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 6: And so I did that for a little bit. I

509
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 6: didn't do that too much, but I did that a

510
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 6: little bit, just myself.

511
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 4: And and the and the organist. But also I played

512
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 4: a team bit with my grandmother because she's played pipe

513
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 4: organ in her church, which was in a different town.

514
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 4: So I wasn't, you know, doing that a lot.

515
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 6: But you know, she she would bring me in like

516
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,400
Speaker 6: for these special events, like you know, for Christmas.

517
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 4: You know the drummer little drummer boy. Now it's the

518
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 4: drummer girl. You know, stuff like that. So I played

519
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 4: with her in her church as well.

520
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 3: Wait, we didn't ask where are people from city? I know,

521
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 3: y'all you're from Ohio, but where are your people from?

522
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 4: Ohio, Kentucky, Okay, all mid Midwest basically, also.

523
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: The entire families from Yellow Springs or the Midwest.

524
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, Midwest like Chicago.

525
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 3: Oh, y'all don't have any Southern roots.

526
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 4: Okay, okay, no, no Southern roots.

527
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 3: No wow, yeah right.

528
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 2: This is the first for everything. I like when we

529
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: get musicians from no church, no South, this is awesome.

530
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: Is insane. At what point do you find other musicians

531
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: that you want to play with.

532
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 4: I started in junior high school playing with the stage band.

533
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 4: We had a concert band. And in high school I

534
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 4: played with this again, the stage band, the concert band,

535
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 4: the orchestra, and then I played also in the pit orchestra,

536
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 4: which you know, we played for performances, you know, they

537
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 4: would do like like Broadway type performances, but high school level.

538
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 6: So I played in that, and in high school is

539
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 6: probably when I started, you know, finding other people who

540
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 6: were my age. At thirteen, really, the first band that

541
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 6: I played with was all older musicians, you know, a

542
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 6: guitarist and bassist who were friends with my older sister.

543
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 6: I met them through through her and started playing with them.

544
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 6: But right after that I started finding.

545
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 4: Young cats who were my age.

546
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 6: But there was definitely a difference in my taste for

547
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 6: music and then kind of their taste for music. Because

548
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 6: we had so many records and so much music that.

549
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 2: Was you were way more evanced.

550
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 4: Well, the music was you know, on the cusp of

551
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 4: of you know, certainly it was adventuresome and you know,

552
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 4: innovative because I was able to be exposed to the innovators,

553
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 4: you know, Art and Max and Roy and Miles and

554
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 4: Coltrane and all these incredible people, and a lot of

555
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 4: my peers, you know, they were into Kansas and Chicago

556
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 4: and Tower of Power and stuff like that, which was

557
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 4: all cool, and you know, we used to play those songs.

558
00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 4: There was a bass player who was heavily into that stuff,

559
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 4: and we became friends, really best friends, and he would

560
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 4: leave his amp and his base at my house and

561
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 4: so we would play, like especially in the summer, every day.

562
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 4: That's what we were doing.

563
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 6: We put on records and then we would play put

564
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 6: on records and play play to the record. Okay, now

565
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 6: we got that, let's play it ourselves, you know. So

566
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 6: we were doing that all the time. And then there

567
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 6: were some scattered musicians around the area that I lived

568
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 6: in who were also into jazz and also into you know,

569
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 6: like pushing the envelope a little bit. But I really

570
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 6: didn't get into that kind of community that was full.

571
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 4: Of cats my age that wanted to do that until

572
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 4: I went to Berkeley.

573
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: So at one point did you think, like, wow, like

574
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: I'm the only young person I know that plays like

575
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 2: how an adult plays, because I went through that kind

576
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: of all my life. Like my dad was an old

577
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: these duop singer, so I grew up with them, all

578
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: of his musicians, and you know, I started playing with

579
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 2: my dad when I was twelve, and you know, they

580
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 2: make a big deal of it in concert, like, oh

581
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: my god, a twelve year old wonder gun like, so

582
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 2: I kind of you know, by fourteen fifteen, I had

583
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 2: the swagger like, yeah, I'm the only young kid that

584
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: sounds like you old cats. And then my first day

585
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 2: of school at Performing Arts in Philadelphia, you know literally

586
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: the no, not the first day, the second day, the

587
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 2: second day already like Miles Davis is calling for like

588
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: Christian McBride and Joey Francesco to like giggle with him.

589
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: And you know the day that Kenny Kirkle and I

590
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: think got into a situation in Joey Francisco at the

591
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: likely out to me like literally come to my school.

592
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: I thought I was hot shit. And then by the

593
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 2: first week and you know, mind you like boys to

594
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 2: men also go to this school. Like suddenly I'm getting

595
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: a wake up call, Like, uh, not only are people

596
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,959
Speaker 2: your age and younger like musicians, but they're like dusting

597
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: your ass right now. You can't rely on you being

598
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:11,239
Speaker 2: Lee Andrews's little kid like at Radio City Music all

599
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: like my little thirteen year old son, like, hey dad,

600
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: you know, like so it was a wake up call. Actually,

601
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 2: you know what, this is an apropos episode. I've had

602
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: two wake up calls courtesy of Cindy Blackman and just

603
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: hitting me right now. I went to that part later

604
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 2: because I as I was saying about my experiences in

605
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 2: high school, like thinking out I was hot shitting you know,

606
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: suddenly real musicians are dusting me. It gave me a

607
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 2: wake up call. But then it just hit me that

608
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: you're responsible for two wake up calls for me.

609
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 7: But I'll he's not going to tell us, no, no, no, no, Okay, storyteller,

610
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 7: All right, Number one, do you remember the first time

611
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 7: we played together?

612
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 2: Okay, So I always wanted to ask you. So there

613
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 2: was this thing. This had to be maybe three months

614
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 2: after nine to eleven. I remember this being like, so

615
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,439
Speaker 2: you remember that that two month three month post nine

616
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 2: to eleven. Are we in the Book of Revelations? Is

617
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 2: this the apocalypse? Is this you know that feeling that

618
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: we also said in twenty twenty, like, oh, is this

619
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 2: the end of the world. But there's a really surreal

620
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,959
Speaker 2: period after nine to eleven. New Yorkers were real nice

621
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 2: to each other and hey, how are you making? You

622
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: know that sort of thing. It was a very surreal

623
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 2: feeling in the air. Someone had said it might have

624
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 2: been there's two fashion weeks in New York, so this

625
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 2: might be February of two thousand and two. But they

626
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 2: wanted you and I to just do a one on

627
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 2: one drum thing at this boutique thing and I just said, yeah, sure,

628
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 2: you know, and didn't prepare for it. And I remember

629
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 2: we briefly spoke backstage, like so what are we supposed

630
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 2: to do?

631
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 3: They're like, y'all briefly spoke before you went on.

632
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 2: And it was I mean, liyah, like even before position

633
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 2: it's not I'm sorry, right, just act like that's quest

634
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 2: love Supreme, Like literally I show it like minister, like, hey, yeah,

635
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 2: you do it, like that's kind of And I was like,

636
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: so what do we do and she's like, uh, we

637
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 2: just play And I was like, uh okay, yeah I

638
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 2: could do that.

639
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 3: And man, okay, y'all need to talk to us through this,

640
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 3: like I need to.

641
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 2: She went from zero to autobone two hundred miles an hour.

642
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 4: No cheap.

643
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: Could you not keep up? Happen? Giant steps? You went

644
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 2: to baby steps?

645
00:35:58,960 --> 00:35:59,200
Speaker 4: Have it?

646
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 2: Do you remember the do you remember the first time

647
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 2: in life like out of shape where like you're like

648
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: you went jogging, you remember the first time like you

649
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 2: jigged your first mile? Do you want to die? And

650
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: it was like you've It was like some Gi Jane

651
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 2: basic training thing like dog.

652
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 4: There was a second at the end of you got

653
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 4: me like, all right, fuck it, dude.

654
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 2: There was a digital clock that was in the corner

655
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 2: and that was the slowest I ever saw seconds go by,

656
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 2: and like forty three seconds went by, and I was like, oh,

657
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 2: I'm gonna die like she it was the fastest. It

658
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: was the loudest, fastest thing ever. And that night, I

659
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: will say, was the night. And that night, yeah, I

660
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,760
Speaker 2: was four thirty eight at my most weight. Oh okay,

661
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 2: and I got through that gig by the skin of

662
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,320
Speaker 2: my teeth and I remember going back to my hotel

663
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 2: and just looking at it was one of the moments

664
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: where you look yourself in the mirror and you're just like,

665
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 2: it's not gonna work. It wasn't a rock bottom lowe place,

666
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 2: but I definitely remember by like minute six, I don't

667
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 2: know how she does this, Like I've never gone this.

668
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: Like my level of drum solo is like maybe two minutes,

669
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 2: maybe three minutes and that's it. But I was like, one,

670
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: my drumming technique is way under advanced, under cooked. I

671
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:41,400
Speaker 2: gotta work on that.

672
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 3: And seeing that it looks like Cindy gives more of

673
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 3: her body too in the as she's drumming, like she

674
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 3: just the your whole body, all your limbs.

675
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was watching just like, oh wow, she puts

676
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: her Like are there times where it's just like you

677
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 2: feel this pressure that you have to go from zero

678
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: to nine hundred bounds per hour every show you've ever

679
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 2: done in the rest of your life, Like, is there

680
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 2: a pressure where you just don't feel like doing that? No,

681
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 2: not for me.

682
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 4: I loved ninety an hour.

683
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 2: I love it therapeutic.

684
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 4: I loved the velocity of all of that. But you know,

685
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 4: before we get into more of that.

686
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,720
Speaker 6: I just want to say that when we played together,

687
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 6: I was like, man, this dude, I mean, and I

688
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:30,320
Speaker 6: heard you on record.

689
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 4: I loved your playing, but to play with you your

690
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 4: groove was so intensely beautiful, and so in the pocket

691
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, yes.

692
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 2: That's all I had. Pocket. I didn't have velocity or

693
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 2: strength or dynamic.

694
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 4: Got let me tell you something. I loved it. I

695
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 4: thought it was was awesome, you know, so that was

696
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 4: You're very kind, thank you, No, it was It's the truth, man,

697
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 4: I loved it. I thought it was so great. So

698
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,800
Speaker 4: for me, it was really really great to play with

699
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 4: you and feel where you're feeling it.

700
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 2: You know.

701
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 6: It's interesting because I went to see Tony at the

702
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 6: Vanguard one time, and you know you've been to the Vanguard,

703
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 6: you know that little bench that they have, so that's

704
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 6: drummer's row. So of course early so I could be

705
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 6: as close to Tony as possible on drummer's row.

706
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 4: So drums are here and I'm right here. So I'm

707
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 4: just watching Tony, not paying attention to anything else.

708
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 6: That's going on in the room because I'm focused on him.

709
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 6: Of course, you know, as we all would be and

710
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 6: there were people sitting next to me, but I don't

711
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,440
Speaker 6: know who they are, you know, just somebody.

712
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 4: I don't know who it was. There's somebody on my

713
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 4: left and you know, I'm watching him, and all of

714
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 4: a sudden, there's like a little commotion on my on

715
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 4: my left side. I didn't know what it was. Somebody

716
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 4: pushed the person out of the way who was sitting

717
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 4: next to me and sat down next to me, just

718
00:39:54,880 --> 00:40:00,800
Speaker 4: plopped down and I looked and his art blaky, I

719
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 4: tell you, it was already my papa. He sat down

720
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 4: next to me and he put his arm around me,

721
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 4: and so he's listening.

722
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 6: He's watching Tony like I'm watching Tony, and he's patting

723
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 6: on my shoulder, you know, where he's feeling the beat,

724
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 6: and Tony's playing where he's feeling the beat.

725
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 4: And Tony was, you know, like, so you got the

726
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 4: middle of the beat, you got behind the beat, you

727
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 4: got above the beat. You know, you got all these

728
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 4: little areas where you can push. You know where that

729
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 4: that center is, and you can push the center, be

730
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 4: in the center, you can be behind it. And we

731
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 4: know the cast that we love kind of where they go.

732
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 4: So Tony is like you know either center or pushing,

733
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,320
Speaker 4: and so he was pushing and Art was feeling it

734
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 4: back here. So for me to feel Art tapping on

735
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 4: my shoulder where he felt the one was yes and

736
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 4: where he felt the time and where Tony was playing,

737
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 4: it was mind blowing.

738
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 2: It was like, I'm always that person where my one

739
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 2: is where someone's one is not. And then you're always

740
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 2: You're always behind the ba of mere. That's your thing,

741
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 2: that's always your thing. Yeah, and I'll be that Meedley.

742
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 2: I mean like that's your whole. Wow, that's my wheelhouse.

743
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:17,600
Speaker 2: Can I ask a.

744
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 5: Question to two of the greatest drummers that ever lived?

745
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 5: Like when are you timekeeper? And when are you musician?

746
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 5: When are you melodic instrument? When are you rhythmic instrument?

747
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 5: I feel like that to be always in drummers who

748
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 5: do a lot of it, Like how do you feel

749
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 5: yourself as a musician? I guess it's the question.

750
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 2: So this is weird, and this is coming right off

751
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: the residency. I did a blue Note this year. I'm

752
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 2: about crossing the boundaries or whatever it makes me uncomfortable

753
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:49,880
Speaker 2: and dive into it and you know, getting out of

754
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: my comfort zone. And it's been a minute since I've

755
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 2: done a jazz gig. So I did like a week

756
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 2: of gigs with David Murray. Also, the third lesson I

757
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 2: learned was I'm never doing a duo sho ever again.

758
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 2: So I did a trio show, you know, David Murray

759
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 2: and very angry, and I realized that being in a

760
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 2: situation where you know, you only have three musicians and

761
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 2: it's a saxophone and a keyboard player, I'm less a

762
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,399
Speaker 2: heart drummer more of a brain drummer because I'm literally thinking, okay,

763
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: so we don't have a guitar player or a bass player,

764
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:25,560
Speaker 2: so my foot's going to have to keep the pace

765
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:29,720
Speaker 2: on bass and the like. I'm a very calculating drummer

766
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: because I'm used to being a traffic cup for the roots,

767
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 2: and I know that drumming is purely a heart or

768
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: a gut thing, and it's gut. We say the heart

769
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: better marketing to say heart. But I'm not necessarily a

770
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 2: heart drummer. So you know, I'm also wondering that same

771
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 2: question that you just asked, Bill, because I'm gonna do

772
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 2: a set of gigs with glasper as a duo, right,

773
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 2: and again it's it's I think to be a drummer

774
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 2: is also to be like super vulnerable because you don't

775
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 2: know what's gonna happen next. It's not like you can

776
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: calculate exactly what you're gonna do. So just from a

777
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 2: psychological aspect, I'm trying to do more jazz gigs. So

778
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: that I because you said you.

779
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 3: Don't like duos and you want to do another one

780
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:19,239
Speaker 3: with Robert Okay.

781
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 2: Well, because I can't preach the gospel and then don't

782
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 2: practice what I preach, and I'm all about getting out

783
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: of your comfort zone. Yeah, it scares me to death

784
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 2: and I freaked out on glass for one night, like,

785
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: oh no, it's gonna work, man like, because I'm thinking,

786
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 2: you know, I'm I'm thinking, and I think to really

787
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: be an effective musician, you have to stop thinking and

788
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 2: just do. And it's so hard for me to just

789
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 2: trust not being in control, like not planning the map

790
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 2: out days beforehand. So do you feel as though you're

791
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 2: the traffic cop that controls everyone or are you part

792
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,240
Speaker 2: of the color making of music?

793
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 6: You know, I think it's kind of situational, depending on

794
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:05,320
Speaker 6: you know, what the situation is that you're playing. But

795
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 6: for me, I think you're everything because you know, if

796
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:14,760
Speaker 6: you keep for me, when I keep my options open,

797
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 6: then I have all these different pathways that I can

798
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 6: go down, and you know, always thinking about giving the

799
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,320
Speaker 6: music what it needs at that time. You know, so

800
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 6: some situations and every situation is different. I learned that

801
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,279
Speaker 6: from Ron Carter. You know, one situation might need you

802
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 6: to be a certain thing, one situation might need you

803
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 6: to be something else, and then there are some situations

804
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 6: where you can just be kind of everything.

805
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 3: Can you give us some examples of the people are thinking, Like,

806
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 3: so when you're doing your jazz thing or when you're

807
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 3: doing it with with Lenny, Like when you're with Lenny, are.

808
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,919
Speaker 2: You free or are you like all those things?

809
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 6: Lenny's thing is is it's rock funk, and it's you know,

810
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 6: you're playing that group. You're gonna slam that groove and

811
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 6: play that until cows come home with some exciting things

812
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 6: that you're doing feiel wise around that when it's needed,

813
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 6: but you're basically playing the groove. And and you know,

814
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 6: Lenny's thing is is parts. You know, you're playing the

815
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 6: parts from the records that he's recorded. So for me,

816
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 6: I just made those parts my own as you know,

817
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 6: I own them.

818
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 4: You know. Okay, you played it on the record, but

819
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 4: this is mine right now, you know.

820
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,759
Speaker 6: So that's the way I approach that. And then I

821
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 6: would add little things, you know, kind of just to

822
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 6: lift the music because now we're playing live, and also

823
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 6: to satisfy myself, you know, to interject something. But that

824
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 6: situation where you know the end game and the goal

825
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 6: is the groove and to be exciting.

826
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 3: That's coloring. So in the mirrors terms, that would be

827
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 3: when you're in that situation, you're doing more of the coloring.

828
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 3: You don't have to be traffic copping.

829
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,399
Speaker 6: No, you're traffic copping because you're playing. You're playing the groove,

830
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 6: you know, and basically sticking to that. But there are

831
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 6: situations where so like when I play with Carlos, you

832
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 6: have that because every music has to feel good, right,

833
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 6: so you have that, but also you're allowed to expand

834
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 6: and expound and be a little more free. And so

835
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,919
Speaker 6: then that means you can interject. With my own band,

836
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,960
Speaker 6: I do a combination of stuff because I love grooving,

837
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 6: but I also love interjection. I love having conversation. I

838
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 6: love stating the groove, but I also love hearing it

839
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 6: in my head and playing around it, you know, and

840
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 6: I think, you know, it's important to understand that the

841
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 6: groove is not just up to the drummer. It's up

842
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 6: to everybody. So you know, there are times when you

843
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 6: swap roles with people. You know, you pass the ball around,

844
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 6: you know, like maybe bass player is the one who's

845
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 6: who's holding it down and you're kind of flowering around,

846
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 6: and then maybe you're both doing it at the same time.

847
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 6: There's a lot of different ways to approach the music

848
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 6: when you're playing in situations that are i'll say freer

849
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 6: or you know, able to allow interjection and and you know,

850
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:24,440
Speaker 6: kind of freedom of conversation and some situations that's not

851
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 6: apropos for but in other situations is.

852
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 4: So that's what I was saying earlier.

853
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 6: It's kind of situational depending on you know, what you're playing,

854
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 6: who you're who you're playing with. You know, like let's

855
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 6: say you're dating someone you know, and you're dating this

856
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 6: guy and and he likes sci fi movies, so with him,

857
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 6: you're going to go see sci fi movies. But then

858
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 6: if you're dating some other person following year, and you

859
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 6: know they don't like movies, they like opera, So then

860
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 6: maybe you're going to go to an opera with this person.

861
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 6: It's just situational, So it just depends on you know,

862
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 6: what situation is and what you do, what you like

863
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,839
Speaker 6: as a combination, you know, in terms of a group.

864
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're just.

865
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: Question because I think the very first album of yours

866
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: in which I became aware was the Code writ project

867
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 2: with Steve Coleman. At any point, were you being wooed

868
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 2: by the the em Bass collective at all to to

869
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 2: to join them in based being a Steve Coleman or

870
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 2: a Gosby uh, Jerry Allen Cassandra, I guess is a

871
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 2: member of Embass basically the jazz, the jazz, native tongues,

872
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 2: the like. Were they were they trying to recruit you

873
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 2: to be part of their click or you know I

874
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 2: talked to.

875
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 6: Steve about that a little bit at one point, but

876
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 6: you know I had a different click. I was in

877
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,320
Speaker 6: another click who was Click then Wallace, you know his

878
00:48:57,480 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 6: whole team. That was kind of my click Wallace, and

879
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 6: you know that that kind.

880
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 4: Of took because we were just so into Miles and Tony,

881
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 4: you know, that was our thing. So that was kind

882
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 4: of where my head was at and you know, I

883
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,359
Speaker 4: didn't really want to know about much else at that point.

884
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Man wilesce fn that I got to work with

885
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:26,760
Speaker 2: him briefly on Commons Electric Circus album. Man incredible player,

886
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:31,439
Speaker 2: like he even the moment in March of twenty twenty

887
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 2: where we were trying to figure out whether or not,

888
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,439
Speaker 2: like if COVID was going to be like a real

889
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:38,399
Speaker 2: thing or just like a thing where it's like, Okay,

890
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 2: we're just in the house for a couple of days

891
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 2: and they'll spray some raid outside and then we'll be

892
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 2: cool and you know, like that sort of thing. While

893
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: its was one of the first casualties of COVID that

894
00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 2: made me know that instantly this is this is serious.

895
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,840
Speaker 2: Can you describe your years of playing with them? Like

896
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 2: what was he like?

897
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 4: He was a true musician, a true student of the music,

898
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 4: and somebody who was unrelentless in wanting to push his

899
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 4: own envelope in terms of a player, a musician, and

900
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 4: push the envelope of the music. You know, he was

901
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 4: really incredible. Like, you know, we were in a relationship for.

902
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 6: Like eleven years and it would be a race in

903
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,320
Speaker 6: the morning to see who got to their instrument first,

904
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:38,840
Speaker 6: Who got to the piano first, Who got to the

905
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 6: record player first? You know, it was incredible because this

906
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 6: guy was just really, really so inspired.

907
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 4: You know, he just lived the music.

908
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 2: You know.

909
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,759
Speaker 4: It was really amazing to see. And you know, he

910
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:57,120
Speaker 4: was such a genius, you know, his harmonic knowledge, his

911
00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 4: knowledge of the drums. I don't know if you ever

912
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 4: talked to him about drums, but his knowledge of the

913
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 4: drums was incredible.

914
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 6: I could talk to him about drumming in more depth

915
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 6: and detail than I can talk to most drummers about.

916
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 6: I mean, this guy was really into the music music, okay.

917
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And I learned so much from him.

918
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 6: I learned harmony from him, I learned, you know, about

919
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 6: playing in an ensemble to him from him. You know,

920
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:28,960
Speaker 6: it's just so many things that he was. She's already

921
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 6: very advanced at at such a young age, you know.

922
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 6: So for me, you know, for for my peer group,

923
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 6: to me, he was like the genius of.

924
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 4: Of of my peer group.

925
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 2: Okay, you said something, and it quasi triggered me, and

926
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 2: I gotta ask you this. Okay, So I purposely, purposely

927
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 2: in my professional life, in my romantic life, was like

928
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 2: I'm never ever dating a creative Yes, in my same field. Yes,

929
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 2: And you know because I've watched like singers together they

930
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 2: harmonized in twenty four to.

931
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:21,440
Speaker 8: Seven, And like, there's one rule I've ever had, like

932
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 8: I don't care how fun yeah the individual is.

933
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, like no, and seriously, there there have been some

934
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 2: conversations had recent like well what was it about me? Like,

935
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 2: and I've always had I've always had an anti musician

936
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:44,400
Speaker 2: creative policy.

937
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 3: I mean, all human beings do not to mention musicians,

938
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 3: and me are keep in mind that all girls get

939
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,880
Speaker 3: told not to date musicians. I'm a door of oh

940
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:56,319
Speaker 3: because we're dogs, right, So exactly, so I'm saying yes,

941
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 3: all of that, and I.

942
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 2: Think a lot of that had to do with it

943
00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 2: because there have been some times where like I would

944
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 2: always gun for like adjacent, like the assistant, you know,

945
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:11,440
Speaker 2: someone that's kind of someone that understands the industry, not

946
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 2: a total civilian, but just not What is it like

947
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 2: to be in a relationship on purpose? Yeah, on purpose

948
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 2: with a creative because to me, I feel like that's

949
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 2: that's oil and water. I feel like that's church and state.

950
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:40,879
Speaker 2: Like when I come home, I want to And it's

951
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 2: weird because you know, I'm seeing someone right now that's

952
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 2: like a movie head, and I actually like discussing movies

953
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 2: with her and those sort of things, and like we

954
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 2: have movie nights and all the discussions and depth and

955
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 2: listen to podcasts together about filmmaking techniques and all those things.

956
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 2: But yeah, with music though, oh man, I will feel

957
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 2: so claus tophobic being a relationship where like first thing

958
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:13,440
Speaker 2: in the morning you want to talk music and but

959
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 2: for you, how does that work? Like?

960
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,359
Speaker 3: And you make it look good, she makes it look

961
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 3: at ud.

962
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 4: You're tracking me up right now. I gotta tell you, man,

963
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 4: you're making me laugh so hard.

964
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 6: The relationship that I had with with with Wallace was

965
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,759
Speaker 6: incredible because you know, we were so young. We were

966
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 6: like twenty you know, we got together and we were

967
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 6: just going for it all the time, and so.

968
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 4: It was very inspiring to me. The issue became when

969
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,320
Speaker 4: the relationship split.

970
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 6: It's like, okay, now we do you know and not

971
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 6: only did you know we split as a couple, but

972
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 6: you know my music partner we split, and okay, this

973
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:00,640
Speaker 6: is not happening to I'm never.

974
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:04,080
Speaker 4: Doing that again. I am never dating a musician ever again,

975
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 4: because you know, when if it does split then.

976
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 6: You know, it's like, well wait a minute, Okay, this

977
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 6: is not happening, you know. So at that point I

978
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 6: was like, okay, this is I'm not gonna do that

979
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,360
Speaker 6: again ever ever. And so the next person that I

980
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 6: diated was not a musician at all. You know, I

981
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:23,800
Speaker 6: loved music, but was not a musician.

982
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 2: Was that weird?

983
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:29,200
Speaker 6: No, because the person was this person was was very supportive,

984
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,920
Speaker 6: you know, so that it wasn't weird because he loved.

985
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 2: Music, you know, but I'm weird in terms of like,

986
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,759
Speaker 2: you know, if you want to talk about Tony Williams's

987
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,720
Speaker 2: uh you know net for TD you know what I mean, She's.

988
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 6: Those conversations didn't happen, not like that, because it would

989
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 6: it would be like the way that he would describe something,

990
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 6: you know, it would it was interesting to me to

991
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:57,760
Speaker 6: hear his take.

992
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,520
Speaker 4: On stuff because he was so not a musician. You know.

993
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:04,720
Speaker 6: He would say, well, that person sounds like would sounds

994
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 6: like would that sounds like what?

995
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 3: You know?

996
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 4: So it was just kind of funny to me. You know.

997
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 4: So my my end depth music conversations were with my friends,

998
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 4: my music friends. They were not with that person because

999
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,719
Speaker 4: that just didn't happen, which is okay too, which is

1000
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:23,120
Speaker 4: okay too. That was okay.

1001
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 6: But you know then when I when I met Carlos,

1002
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 6: I was like, there's a lot in common, but it

1003
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 6: wasn't you know. It was more the spiritual path that

1004
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 6: he was on that grabbed me because I hadn't.

1005
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:41,439
Speaker 4: Been with some time and I was missing that. That's

1006
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 4: what I was looking for most. The fact that he

1007
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 4: was a musician was secondary.

1008
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 6: The spiritual path one one for me because that's what

1009
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 6: I was looking for, somebody on a spiritual path.

1010
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 4: I needed that, you know, right. And the music thing

1011
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:00,080
Speaker 4: with him.

1012
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 6: Is there and we talk about it all the time,

1013
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 6: but he's such a sage with other things that is

1014
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 6: just a whole another level of stuff that goes on.

1015
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 6: So sometimes we're not talking about music. We're talking about philosophy,

1016
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 6: we're talking about spirituality. We're talking about you know, things

1017
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 6: that we both want to do, you know, uplifting the.

1018
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 4: Consciousness of humanity. So it's a whole nother thing, and

1019
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,400
Speaker 4: we do it through music, yes, but we also do it,

1020
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 4: you know, he does it through streams and through talking

1021
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 4: to people in different ways. You've spoken to him, you know,

1022
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 4: So it's a whole other level. Now with him, it's

1023
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 4: a whole other level of depth and dimension in what

1024
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:51,840
Speaker 4: we talk about.

1025
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know this is an outline question

1026
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 2: or whatever, but assuming that your life partner is Carlo Santana,

1027
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:04,919
Speaker 2: I would always imagine that, like, for me, the most

1028
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 2: ideal situation. So yeah, it kind of when I had

1029
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:14,920
Speaker 2: my first conversation with him, was also a little bit

1030
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:18,960
Speaker 2: past the pandemic where I have my spiritual waking as well,

1031
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 2: and you know, got into the things I used to

1032
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 2: laugh at. I used to look at cats like Carlos,

1033
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 2: like burntal hippie and you know, all that stuff. And

1034
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 2: then suddenly I morphed into the person I used to

1035
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 2: laugh at. I you know, like started doing yoga and

1036
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 2: started meditating, and started sound baths and like all those

1037
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 2: things I used to laugh at people. And for me,

1038
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 2: when I went to my first sound bath, I was

1039
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:52,200
Speaker 2: just like, yo, this is like, this is an ideal

1040
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:57,200
Speaker 2: musical situation. I wouldn't mind being in. That's not a

1041
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 2: job or me playing a gig, but like the idea

1042
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 2: of watching people play. You know, there were Klimba's there,

1043
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:10,560
Speaker 2: there were various bells and koshy bells and all those

1044
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 2: things or whatever. Do you guys like routinely do circles

1045
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 2: of music together as a couple or like with groups

1046
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 2: of people or not like that, you know, No, never, Okay,

1047
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 2: I was having a romantica.

1048
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 4: We don't do any of that stuff.

1049
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 6: I mean, we listen to stuff, you know, and you know,

1050
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 6: he comes up with all these playlists and we go

1051
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,919
Speaker 6: through that kind of stuff. And of course he loves

1052
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 6: the drums, so we talk about the drums, and but

1053
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:49,880
Speaker 6: it's not like we're doing music circles or even jamming

1054
00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:52,960
Speaker 6: all the time. That's you know, like I have drums

1055
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 6: in the house, but I really play in the house.

1056
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 6: I go to the studio to play because I like

1057
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 6: to focus and be and he likes to sit in

1058
01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 6: the living room and play, so he plays there.

1059
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:04,919
Speaker 4: And I go to the studio and play.

1060
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 6: So which is actually good because then you're giving the

1061
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 6: person their own space, you know. So we have this

1062
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 6: stuff where we come together, and then we also have

1063
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 6: our own space to explore the way we want to

1064
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 6: or you know, just be alone with our instruments, which

1065
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 6: is something that as you know, you're a musician too,

1066
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:29,920
Speaker 6: and you know, we need that that's it's part of

1067
01:00:29,960 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 6: the deal.

1068
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,560
Speaker 2: I was asking because like there's a period where Don

1069
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 2: Cherry would often involve all this family into recordings. Like, yes,

1070
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 2: he recorded it and released it, but I know that

1071
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 2: the genesis of a lot of those recordings were just

1072
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 2: like being at home doing chanting around the house and

1073
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 2: you know that that sort of thing. So in my mind,

1074
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 2: I don't know, I just imagine you two as this

1075
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:57,800
Speaker 2: utopian couple.

1076
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:04,800
Speaker 6: I'll tell you actually, and you're you're sparking a memory.

1077
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:09,479
Speaker 6: We only did we did do something like that one time,

1078
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 6: and it was Carlos's idea.

1079
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 4: We had a bunch of family over. This is when

1080
01:01:15,080 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 4: we lived in California. We had a bunch of family

1081
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 4: over and you know.

1082
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,120
Speaker 6: Without getting into detail, there was something that needed to

1083
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 6: be kind of healed, and so Carlos' suggestion was that

1084
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 6: we everybody started playing kunga's and playing drums, and so

1085
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 6: everybody was was playing a drum or, you know, picked

1086
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 6: up a percussion thing. That's the only time we've ever

1087
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 6: done that, and it was kind of like a very

1088
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:46,880
Speaker 6: healing experience because that was what was needed. But you know,

1089
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:51,479
Speaker 6: we're not like the music circle, you know, kumbaya people.

1090
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 2: Sorry, because my next question was, so we're gonna come.

1091
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was totally an invite for a dress that

1092
01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,200
Speaker 5: they drop circle invice like so bad.

1093
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 4: Wait, wait, it needs to happen. It looks like if

1094
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 4: you if you came over to the house, we'd probably

1095
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 4: do it with you.

1096
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's it. I specifically said to him that

1097
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 2: when I decide or make the decision to do my

1098
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 2: first ayahuasca journey, I wanted him to be present to play.

1099
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 3: I thought you hadn't already done that a mirror.

1100
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, no, I'm not there. I'm still

1101
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 2: I'm still in the shallow part of the okay, the shallow.

1102
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 3: On that note, though, can I ask Cindy, like on

1103
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:33,960
Speaker 3: a daily as far as like a routine of what

1104
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 3: it takes spiritually and physically for you to present what

1105
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 3: I see right now? Is there something that you.

1106
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:42,280
Speaker 2: By the way, yeah, like, but I need to know

1107
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 2: this is a very thing, yes for sure. Yeah.

1108
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 4: I do a lot of different stuff.

1109
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 6: So I've always been into Like, through school, my thing

1110
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 6: was sports and drums, So I've always been into being healthy.

1111
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 6: My again, my older sister who had all those records,

1112
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 6: she also got me into juice singing at a very

1113
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:07,800
Speaker 6: young age and to you know, eating a healthy way.

1114
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 6: So I do a lot of exercise. I was into

1115
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 6: yoga a lot at one point. I haven't been into

1116
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,240
Speaker 6: yoga lately, but you know, at this point, I do

1117
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,080
Speaker 6: tai chi. You know, I've done other martial arts too.

1118
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:26,280
Speaker 6: Right now it's tai chi. I do supplements. I drink

1119
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 6: a lot of water, you know, I try to rest.

1120
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 6: I get into meditation. I'm a vegan.

1121
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 3: I saw you perform at the VMAs, and I was

1122
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 3: wondering in those situations, you know, twenty years later, there

1123
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 3: are a lot of baby Cindy Blackman's now, Like folks

1124
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 3: were very purposeful in having a female drummer and their

1125
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,200
Speaker 3: bands and things of that nature. So I'm wondering, like,

1126
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,480
Speaker 3: in those situations like the VMAs, do you get a

1127
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:52,479
Speaker 3: lot of the young female drummers coming to you and saying,

1128
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:53,960
Speaker 3: oh my god, you're my hero. How do you do

1129
01:03:54,120 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 3: the things that you do and all of that?

1130
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 4: Or not?

1131
01:03:58,040 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 3: Literally? I had that thought of the VMA's. I was like,

1132
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 3: there should be fan a fan out for Cidy Blackman

1133
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 3: right now behind stage?

1134
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 4: Was it, Oh, thank you?

1135
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 6: I've had some of that, you know, And it's always

1136
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 6: an honor if if if somebody says that they were,

1137
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 6: you know, inspired by you or influenced by you or whatever,

1138
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:18,760
Speaker 6: because you know that's part of it. You know, you

1139
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 6: want the music to grow and you want the music

1140
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 6: to live on, and you want people to have no

1141
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:30,840
Speaker 6: fear with going for some a young a young boy.

1142
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:33,280
Speaker 4: Or a young girl or or you know, a person

1143
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 4: who just feels that they've been disallowed to get into

1144
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 4: some sort of creative endeavor that they're inspired by. You know,

1145
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,920
Speaker 4: you want you go for it. So that's always an

1146
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,560
Speaker 4: honor to know that and get any of that. And

1147
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:54,800
Speaker 4: if that's the case, I feel good about that.

1148
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 2: How easy was it for you? Because I do know

1149
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 2: that if one thing's that that jazz musicians are known

1150
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 2: for are their seriousness or their earnestness. And you know,

1151
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 2: Branford told me how his life had to adjust once

1152
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,200
Speaker 2: he had to let his community know that he was

1153
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 2: going to play with Sting. You know, certain people felt

1154
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 2: betrayed and you know that sort of thing. But you know,

1155
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:25,600
Speaker 2: Branford is also kind of in the zero fox lane

1156
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 2: in playing with Lenny. Did your community ever sort of

1157
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 2: scoff at you, like, well, you're a serious musician, why

1158
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 2: would you want to do these things? Or whatever? Like

1159
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,439
Speaker 2: what was the general was there resistance on your part

1160
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:45,520
Speaker 2: or how did Lenny convince you to even play? Because

1161
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 2: I know that for the first part of Let Love Rule,

1162
01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 2: Zorro was Lenny's original drummer, and then you came in

1163
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:55,520
Speaker 2: shortly thereafter.

1164
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, some people kind of scoffed at it, you know,

1165
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 4: at why would you want to do that? You know?

1166
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 6: But as I was saying before, I grew up with

1167
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 6: a lot of different musics in my house, so I

1168
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 6: like a lot of different musics.

1169
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:13,760
Speaker 4: I liked playing in these stadiums with him, and I

1170
01:06:13,840 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 4: could see.

1171
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:17,840
Speaker 6: Everybody dancing and everybody groove, and I liked being responsible

1172
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:21,360
Speaker 6: for making people feel that good from making people want

1173
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 6: to dance, making people want to move.

1174
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,480
Speaker 4: I like being in that seat, you know.

1175
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 6: And when I first played with him, I actually didn't

1176
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:32,520
Speaker 6: even really know who Lenny was because I hadn't I

1177
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 6: know his music, Yeah, I didn't. I mean I was

1178
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:37,959
Speaker 6: I wanted to play with Miles Davis, and I wanted

1179
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 6: to play with Freddie Hubbard.

1180
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:42,000
Speaker 4: You know, this is that was my focus. I was like,

1181
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 4: how can I I want to do that. That's what

1182
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 4: I want to do.

1183
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 6: And so I was not thinking about playing rock or

1184
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:51,320
Speaker 6: playing pop or funk or anything like that at that time,

1185
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:57,840
Speaker 6: because I was just focused on doing that. And Antoine turned.

1186
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:00,160
Speaker 4: Me on to Lenny, you know, and it was like, Oh,

1187
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:03,760
Speaker 4: I have this this this friend who's he's a rock

1188
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:09,200
Speaker 4: and roll guy who likes Gretz drums and caslogion symbols.

1189
01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 6: Do you want to meet him? I'm like, wow, he's

1190
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:12,920
Speaker 6: got ears. Okay, I'd love to meet him.

1191
01:07:13,040 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 4: And he likes that that I know.

1192
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 6: And he's like, yeah, he likes Miles and he likes Coltrane.

1193
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 6: I'm like, okay, that sounds like a cool person. You know,

1194
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 6: I'd love to meet him. And he said, well, he's

1195
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:24,480
Speaker 6: been looking for a drummer for like a year and

1196
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 6: a half. You know, maybe I don't have his number,

1197
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 6: but he calls me every once in a while, and

1198
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 6: if he's still looking, you know, would you be interested

1199
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:34,360
Speaker 6: in talking to him? And I said, yeah, he sounds cool.

1200
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:37,320
Speaker 6: And at that point I still.

1201
01:07:37,240 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 4: Hadn't heard his music and he and he said, well,

1202
01:07:39,720 --> 01:07:41,800
Speaker 4: you know, he's the guy who he was.

1203
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:44,000
Speaker 6: Married to to Lisa Bone and I'm like, okay, yeah,

1204
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 6: I know Lisa because I know the Cosby Show.

1205
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 4: We grew up on that.

1206
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 6: And I actually just played for him on the phone,

1207
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:54,160
Speaker 6: you know. Like some months later, Antonine called me just

1208
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:56,880
Speaker 6: like I got Lenny. I got Lenny on the line

1209
01:07:57,440 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 6: and and so he kind of did a three way

1210
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 6: or oh, let me said do you have drums in

1211
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:05,320
Speaker 6: your house? And I said yeah, and he said, well

1212
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 6: play something.

1213
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:09,600
Speaker 4: So I said okay, and I got on and I

1214
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 4: started playing. I played for a long time, like maybe

1215
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 4: long time for a phone call, like.

1216
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 6: Maybe five minutes, and then I got off and I said,

1217
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,679
Speaker 6: this one speaker is small, and I wasn't playing soft.

1218
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 4: I could you hear it? You know, was the clear?

1219
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:26,640
Speaker 6: And he said, yeah, I'm in La. Can you fly

1220
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 6: out here right now? And I said okay, I wasn't

1221
01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,759
Speaker 6: doing anything. And so next morning, at like six am,

1222
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,519
Speaker 6: I had a flight and he said, you know, pack

1223
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:39,760
Speaker 6: for two days, come out, no strings attached, just playing

1224
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:41,400
Speaker 6: with my band, see how it feels, and then I'll

1225
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:41,920
Speaker 6: send you home.

1226
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 4: And I said, oh cool, I've never been to La.

1227
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 4: This would be a chance for me to meet some

1228
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,720
Speaker 4: new musicians. I'll go and just play and then I'll

1229
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:50,120
Speaker 4: come home.

1230
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 6: And I went out, and his manager or somebody, when

1231
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 6: they found out that I was coming, they made an

1232
01:08:58,560 --> 01:09:02,960
Speaker 6: announcement and called like an audition. So when I got there,

1233
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:05,680
Speaker 6: we went to the place where he was staying and

1234
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,680
Speaker 6: there were no instruments there, like they were getting some

1235
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 6: rental gear from sir somewhere and they hadn't showed up yet.

1236
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 6: And I'm sitting there waiting and I see it can't

1237
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 6: come in with like, you know, a base rom pedal.

1238
01:09:18,000 --> 01:09:19,680
Speaker 6: I saw somebody else come in with a stick bag,

1239
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 6: and first I was thinking, well, that's an odd way

1240
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:22,680
Speaker 6: to bring in the drums. And I was like, wait

1241
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:24,040
Speaker 6: a minute, No, no, these are drummers.

1242
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:30,800
Speaker 4: Like forty drummers showed up to audition for him, and

1243
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:33,559
Speaker 4: I had jet like so I was like, okay, still

1244
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,320
Speaker 4: no gears here. I'm gonna go outside and just chill

1245
01:09:36,360 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 4: out for a minute. So I went outside on a launcher.

1246
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 6: And I fell asleep and the assistant. Lenny's assistant came

1247
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,720
Speaker 6: and she was like, Cindy, Lenny started the auditions. He

1248
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:48,799
Speaker 6: wanted you to play first, but you know he couldn't

1249
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 6: find you, so he already started. You gotta come now,

1250
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 6: So I was okay, I came and you know, I.

1251
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:58,640
Speaker 4: Auditioned and played, and fortunately for me, he said, okay, no,

1252
01:09:59,120 --> 01:10:00,120
Speaker 4: this is the auditions over.

1253
01:10:00,160 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 6: I'm gonna tell yeah, and which was for me. But

1254
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:06,200
Speaker 6: but then his manager was like, yeah, but you got

1255
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:10,680
Speaker 6: like thirty nine other people out there. Kind of not

1256
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:13,240
Speaker 6: cool if you don't hear them. So you know, he

1257
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:15,479
Speaker 6: heard them, and he heard one other guy in there

1258
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:18,400
Speaker 6: that he liked. And then there was a drummer coming

1259
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:23,439
Speaker 6: from London, Michael Lee. He arrived the next day. So

1260
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:28,160
Speaker 6: the following day Lenny had me play and other drummer play,

1261
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 6: and me play other drummer play.

1262
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 4: He still chose me.

1263
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:32,200
Speaker 6: Then he had me do the same thing with Michael

1264
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:35,720
Speaker 6: Lee and he still shows me, which was you know,

1265
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:39,639
Speaker 6: an honor and got you know, rest in peace.

1266
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:41,840
Speaker 4: Michael Lee. He was a great drummer. He ended up

1267
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 4: playing with.

1268
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 6: Robert Plant and he passed really early, so that's why

1269
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 6: I say rest in peace. He was really fantastic. But

1270
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 6: at any rate, you know, at that point, it had

1271
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 6: already been the two days, so I already used up

1272
01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:59,679
Speaker 6: whatever clothing I had for my little two day stay.

1273
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:01,680
Speaker 3: I was about to ask you what you were.

1274
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 4: I ended up staying for for two weeks and learning

1275
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 4: his music, and at the end of that we did

1276
01:11:08,360 --> 01:11:10,559
Speaker 4: are you Gonna Go My Way? Was the esthetic?

1277
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:14,680
Speaker 3: Was y'all aesthetic just natural? I'm just saying visually, was

1278
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 3: the aesthetic always just natural? Y'all walked in with whatever

1279
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:18,880
Speaker 3: you look like, and this is it was?

1280
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, yeah, it was. It was.

1281
01:11:20,920 --> 01:11:23,639
Speaker 6: It was really pretty natural because you know, I had

1282
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 6: my little astro and my little yeah, you know, that

1283
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:28,760
Speaker 6: was kind of his vibe, and so it was it

1284
01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 6: was pretty natural right away.

1285
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:33,920
Speaker 2: He knew of you already because I remember reading a

1286
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 2: write up and Vibe magazine about you before you joined Lenny.

1287
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:41,760
Speaker 2: I think Tate interviewed you. Either Tate or Dreamhampton interviewed it.

1288
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,600
Speaker 2: I forget who it was, but like, did he not

1289
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 2: know about you already or was that the first time

1290
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:49,760
Speaker 2: both of you were kind of getting into each other.

1291
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:52,720
Speaker 4: I remember that that Vibe interviewing, and I don't know,

1292
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 4: I don't to my recollection, he didn't know of me

1293
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:00,919
Speaker 4: beforehand before Antoine mentioned me, you know, to my recollection,

1294
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:02,400
Speaker 4: you know he did, he didn't.

1295
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 2: But can you talk about Antoine who used to play

1296
01:12:06,439 --> 01:12:07,559
Speaker 2: on that Letterman still correct.

1297
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:12,280
Speaker 4: No, no, no, Antoine Roney Wallace's brother an Okay, I

1298
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:13,200
Speaker 4: thought you knew Antoine.

1299
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:17,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, okay, but yeah, Antoine his brother, who's a saxophone player.

1300
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 6: That's the person who hooked Lenny and I up together.

1301
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:25,720
Speaker 4: But you know, you know, we we did that. We

1302
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 4: did that video.

1303
01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 6: And then after he and the bass player, the guitar player,

1304
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 6: and his manager and assistant, they walked me outside and

1305
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:39,800
Speaker 6: Lenny said, so you want to join my band?

1306
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 4: And I said, yeah, when does it start? And he

1307
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:45,400
Speaker 4: started laughing. He said it started two weeks ago.

1308
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 2: So you never went home, you know, not really?

1309
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:50,680
Speaker 4: I mean I went I went home.

1310
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 6: We actually rehearsed in New Jersey, and I was living

1311
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:56,360
Speaker 6: in New York at the time, so I kind of

1312
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:57,919
Speaker 6: did go home, and then we just rehearsed.

1313
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 3: I don't want this to sound reductive, but this is

1314
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 3: commonality between y'all cannot just be overlooked.

1315
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:08,600
Speaker 2: Okay, outside of.

1316
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,760
Speaker 3: The drum thing, y'all have been the most consistent afrowares

1317
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 3: of our time. Can we talk about this? Can we

1318
01:13:17,160 --> 01:13:19,680
Speaker 3: talk about why we've been so consistent, Cindy, Can we

1319
01:13:19,720 --> 01:13:21,560
Speaker 3: talk about how hard it is to maintain this in

1320
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 3: a sweaty drum environment where things are shrinking, cans are shrinking. Yeah,

1321
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,120
Speaker 3: the Afro strengths in the water people.

1322
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 2: I too wanted to know, like, did that gig also

1323
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:39,639
Speaker 2: come complete with your because it's not until working here

1324
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 2: at thirty Rock in which pretty much every day is

1325
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 2: a day at a high ends line.

1326
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,320
Speaker 3: Because that hair did not always look like that's beautiful

1327
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:48,680
Speaker 3: on that head right there, right now about you here?

1328
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:54,120
Speaker 2: Oh thank you changes it's ways and jes th Rock. Yeah,

1329
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 2: I was about to say, where was your Why.

1330
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:59,640
Speaker 4: Stay so consistent? I like the Jesus and barries. You know.

1331
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:03,519
Speaker 6: It's funny because and not many people know this, but

1332
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 6: when I did that video, Lenny wanted me to shave

1333
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:12,160
Speaker 6: my head for that video, and I you know, there

1334
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:15,640
Speaker 6: was probably a couple of reasons, but he wanted me

1335
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:16,400
Speaker 6: to shave my head.

1336
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 4: And I was like, oh no, I can't do that,

1337
01:14:20,280 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 4: you know. And I called my mom, I'm saying and

1338
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 4: we were at the video and they were waiting on

1339
01:14:26,320 --> 01:14:29,840
Speaker 4: me to shave my head. Oh my god, I want

1340
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 4: to change everything. And the manager was like, hey, this

1341
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:36,360
Speaker 4: video is expensive. You gotta get this head shaved so

1342
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 4: we can move on. And I went found a phone

1343
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,000
Speaker 4: and I called my mom. I said, Mom, they want

1344
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:43,559
Speaker 4: me to save my head. And she said, Cindy, if

1345
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:46,559
Speaker 4: you shave your head, your grandmother were rolling her grave.

1346
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 4: You cannot, you cannot shave your head. I'm like, okay,

1347
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:55,040
Speaker 4: and I said, you know, I can't do it. I

1348
01:14:55,080 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 4: can't shave my head. And you know, in Lenny's defense.

1349
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 6: You know how we go through and this is really

1350
01:15:01,479 --> 01:15:04,439
Speaker 6: kind of a full disclosure that I've actually talked about.

1351
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 6: Uh So, meir, you gotta blame you for this, this

1352
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 6: me saying this, you know, you're bringing something out of me.

1353
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:11,439
Speaker 4: In other words.

1354
01:15:11,760 --> 01:15:16,120
Speaker 2: Okay, but yeah, you know how we we do with

1355
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:16,599
Speaker 2: our hair.

1356
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:18,760
Speaker 6: You know, we we put stuff in our hair, you know,

1357
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:21,080
Speaker 6: chemical and stuff. And I put some chemical on my

1358
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 6: hair and it really messed my hair up. So I

1359
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:25,800
Speaker 6: think that's why he probably wanted me to shave it.

1360
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 6: I don't know, but you know he liked that look,

1361
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:30,679
Speaker 6: you know, and he he showed me there was one

1362
01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:33,759
Speaker 6: woman in the video, a sister.

1363
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,840
Speaker 4: Who had kind of my complexion, and she had a

1364
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 4: shaved head. Was look at her, see how beautiful she is.

1365
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:41,439
Speaker 4: You'll be beautiful like that. I'm like, yeah, let's go

1366
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 4: on her, but it's not you know, my head looks

1367
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:44,639
Speaker 4: like on the air.

1368
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 9: But yeah, so I you know, for that for that video,

1369
01:15:51,240 --> 01:15:54,680
Speaker 9: I actually wore like a little afro wig, you know,

1370
01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 9: because yeah, and then we started with just my my hair.

1371
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:05,120
Speaker 6: As it became more of the afro that you know,

1372
01:16:05,479 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 6: I liked. It was just my afro, you know, I

1373
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:10,040
Speaker 6: would just let my hair out and just you know,

1374
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:14,439
Speaker 6: be be that. But I was always into an afro,

1375
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 6: like from when I was young, you know, I always

1376
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 6: had my afro out just because I liked that style.

1377
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 6: And one of my heroes, who was my older sister,

1378
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:26,840
Speaker 6: she was like the first person in Yellow Springs who

1379
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 6: got an afro.

1380
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:30,479
Speaker 4: She was like an innovator with the pioneer.

1381
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:31,680
Speaker 2: Okay, she was.

1382
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:32,160
Speaker 3: She was.

1383
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:33,200
Speaker 4: I remember the day that she.

1384
01:16:33,360 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 6: Let her hair just you know, be free, and she

1385
01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:39,880
Speaker 6: came home walking down the street and all I saw

1386
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:45,879
Speaker 6: was this hair, one like this, and I was like, whoa, she's.

1387
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:48,639
Speaker 4: The coolest thing I've ever seen. Look at that hair.

1388
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:49,679
Speaker 2: Wow.

1389
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:51,400
Speaker 4: I thought it was awesome.

1390
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 3: Another musician didn't answer on your side of me, but

1391
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:54,960
Speaker 3: that's fine.

1392
01:16:55,920 --> 01:16:59,280
Speaker 2: Both when I did the Motown Philly video, when boys

1393
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:02,320
Speaker 2: men asked me to be in Motown Philly video. You know,

1394
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:04,759
Speaker 2: my hair was out, but it was like it wasn't

1395
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:08,519
Speaker 2: short like a box or whatever, you know, like I

1396
01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:12,040
Speaker 2: couldn't stop this from growing. It always grew. So night

1397
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:14,960
Speaker 2: before I was like, I'm gonna braik my hair and

1398
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 2: believe it or not, that was super radical. That was

1399
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:23,599
Speaker 2: like walking down fifty second Street West Philly, people look

1400
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 2: like them snakes in your head.

1401
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 3: Like man, because you have plats, not cornrows. You have

1402
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:32,919
Speaker 3: flat plats, right, And it was like I was Medusa,

1403
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 3: like yeah, I see yeah, right.

1404
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:39,759
Speaker 2: But for nineteen ninety one, that was such a radical,

1405
01:17:40,479 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 2: rebellious hairstyle, So I did you know it's weird. The

1406
01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 2: day that we had to shoot the album cover for

1407
01:17:47,040 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 2: Do You Want More? I wanted to pick my afro out,

1408
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 2: but the girl that does my hair wasn't home at

1409
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 2: the time because she was a student at Temple University,

1410
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:01,599
Speaker 2: and we shot in the more like that that album

1411
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 2: cover for Do You Want More? I think was shot

1412
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:06,439
Speaker 2: like maybe like one in the afternoon or whatever. We

1413
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 2: just made the photo dark. But it wasn't until she

1414
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:13,800
Speaker 2: got out of school at five pm that she ran

1415
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,439
Speaker 2: the Sigma to take my afro out. So the back

1416
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:18,320
Speaker 2: of do you want more? When we're in the alleyway,

1417
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:21,479
Speaker 2: I'm my afro out, but the front cover I my

1418
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:28,920
Speaker 2: my plaid. So nah, I figured it was a new beginning.

1419
01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 2: I thought I was pioneering something. And then two weeks later,

1420
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:37,439
Speaker 2: Snoop wore his afro out at the American Music Awards.

1421
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 2: I was like, damn it, that's what I said.

1422
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:44,400
Speaker 3: Most consistent, y'all are the most consistent. I appreciate y'all.

1423
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:45,640
Speaker 2: I'm just hard to hit it, thank you.

1424
01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:46,800
Speaker 3: But I like it.

1425
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:49,240
Speaker 4: I like it. I like the afro and you know,

1426
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:54,519
Speaker 4: I liked the afro pick. You know. I was like, okay, yeah,

1427
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:56,760
Speaker 4: you go, brother like you. Yeah.

1428
01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:01,840
Speaker 2: You know one musician that is fun of sort of

1429
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:06,040
Speaker 2: elevating women who play instruments. Of course, not with us,

1430
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:10,920
Speaker 2: brother brother Nelson Princes. Has he ever asked you to

1431
01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:11,920
Speaker 2: play for him ever?

1432
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 6: I never played with Prince well, I mean the only

1433
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 6: time I played with him was was when he sat

1434
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 6: in with Lenny.

1435
01:19:19,439 --> 01:19:22,160
Speaker 2: Wow, that's crazy because I know for him, like his

1436
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:25,120
Speaker 2: wheelhouse is elevating women who play instruments.

1437
01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:28,880
Speaker 4: And so we almost did, but it didn't happen.

1438
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:33,840
Speaker 6: It was right around you know, It was actually we

1439
01:19:33,960 --> 01:19:38,600
Speaker 6: were supposed to play together in an audition setting, you know,

1440
01:19:38,680 --> 01:19:41,200
Speaker 6: me auditioning for him, But it was the day that

1441
01:19:41,520 --> 01:19:42,719
Speaker 6: Michael Jackson passed.

1442
01:19:43,960 --> 01:19:47,000
Speaker 4: Oh that just crashed the whole groove. You know, that

1443
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:49,160
Speaker 4: just crashed the whole vibe. And then it never happened

1444
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:51,560
Speaker 4: after that, you know, but it was that day and

1445
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:55,000
Speaker 4: I just never forget the look on his face because

1446
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:56,360
Speaker 4: if you were there with him.

1447
01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 2: When he found out, mm hm shit, how did I

1448
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 2: affect them?

1449
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:06,200
Speaker 4: Yeah? It was it was the energy was not good.

1450
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:09,639
Speaker 4: It was like, oh my god, it was like a shock.

1451
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:12,759
Speaker 4: It was like complete sadness.

1452
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:17,680
Speaker 6: It was like, you know, probably I would imagine and

1453
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:20,120
Speaker 6: I didn't he didn't say it, but I would imagine

1454
01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:25,080
Speaker 6: it was probably like him looking at himself because his

1455
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:26,680
Speaker 6: own mortality.

1456
01:20:27,080 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 4: It happened, and you know, when he passed, it was

1457
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:33,720
Speaker 4: like all I could think of was like, wow, you know,

1458
01:20:34,200 --> 01:20:36,840
Speaker 4: I wonder what was really going through his head that

1459
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 4: day that Michael Jackson passed. I mean that was a

1460
01:20:39,160 --> 01:20:40,559
Speaker 4: pretty that was a shocker.

1461
01:20:41,320 --> 01:20:44,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, they have been battling for so long, I bet ith, Yeah,

1462
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 3: like just in a friendly French like.

1463
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:54,000
Speaker 6: Hmm, but I mean inspired contemporaries, because you know, both

1464
01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:59,439
Speaker 6: were just so incredible and innovative in their in their

1465
01:20:59,479 --> 01:21:05,759
Speaker 6: own way. He's I mean, there's no way that anybody

1466
01:21:05,800 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 6: could ever listen to anything Michael Jackson and not say

1467
01:21:11,080 --> 01:21:13,680
Speaker 6: that he was not only a genius, but that he

1468
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:17,560
Speaker 6: was incredible, you know, from the dancing to you know,

1469
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 6: the obviously that incredible voice. You know, and when you

1470
01:21:22,160 --> 01:21:25,360
Speaker 6: listen to him as a child, it's like Smokey Robinson

1471
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:27,680
Speaker 6: said it, he said, you know, man, are you a

1472
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:29,080
Speaker 6: child or I don't think so.

1473
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 4: I think you're a midget.

1474
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:32,040
Speaker 2: Exactly.

1475
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:33,519
Speaker 4: I know.

1476
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 2: He was a massive fan of Lenny's, Like, has he

1477
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 2: ever seen you guys in concert? Like, did you ever

1478
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:40,479
Speaker 2: get to meet him, Michael or Michael Prince?

1479
01:21:41,439 --> 01:21:43,800
Speaker 4: I never got to meet him, unfortunately, and I don't

1480
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:46,120
Speaker 4: think he's ever been to He's he never went to

1481
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 4: a concert.

1482
01:21:46,840 --> 01:21:49,400
Speaker 6: Because we would have known if he was there, like

1483
01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:53,640
Speaker 6: a big figure. So yeah, he never Prince, yes, he

1484
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 6: said him with us a couple of times. A few

1485
01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:03,040
Speaker 6: times actually at some some gigs and then at a rehearsal.

1486
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:07,840
Speaker 6: We were rehearsing for the Rock and Roller Is Dead

1487
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:16,160
Speaker 6: album and Lenny and Prince were hanging out and Prince came.

1488
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:25,320
Speaker 4: It was actually yeah, with his perfume. That was to

1489
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:29,200
Speaker 4: remember that his his valet came in to the studio

1490
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:30,960
Speaker 4: before he did and he was sprayed.

1491
01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 2: That's wild. I don't know that.

1492
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:39,679
Speaker 6: It was so funny. He was spraying this before Prince

1493
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:41,680
Speaker 6: came in. You know, I guess he's preparing the room.

1494
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:44,840
Speaker 6: And then Prince came in and he and he sat

1495
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:47,559
Speaker 6: in on organ. He played with us. It was really cool.

1496
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:49,720
Speaker 6: He brought his guitar, he had us all of his gear,

1497
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:53,760
Speaker 6: but he decided to play organ instead, so that that

1498
01:22:53,920 --> 01:22:54,680
Speaker 6: was pretty cool too.

1499
01:22:55,479 --> 01:23:00,200
Speaker 2: What I have to say that it's somewhere back then there.

1500
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 2: I still occasionally I'll wear it, but yeah, I saw Princess.

1501
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:09,439
Speaker 2: You can tell. This is a weird thing to admit.

1502
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:14,200
Speaker 2: You could tell a person's uh oil routine based on

1503
01:23:14,280 --> 01:23:18,600
Speaker 2: their bathroom where it again that I'm talking to you.

1504
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:22,360
Speaker 2: You know, a big part of my vanilla smell is

1505
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:26,720
Speaker 2: having gone in Lenny's bathroom once in Miami and saw

1506
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 2: Zoe's vanilla oil. And now we're the same thing. All

1507
01:23:36,120 --> 01:23:37,679
Speaker 2: all the oils that Prince wears.

1508
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:40,639
Speaker 4: That's a lie. Are you serious? Those are the oils

1509
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:41,160
Speaker 4: that he wears.

1510
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:44,960
Speaker 2: I know, I know the combination of oils.

1511
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:49,759
Speaker 3: So what you got from Bergamot and Paul, what you got.

1512
01:23:50,160 --> 01:23:52,040
Speaker 2: You know, just the best of Harlem, you know, some

1513
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 2: petulias and uh no, no, no, not Money in the

1514
01:23:57,439 --> 01:23:59,439
Speaker 2: Street and Blue Nile. Now that's that's a little two

1515
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:00,439
Speaker 2: fifty secon street.

1516
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:06,000
Speaker 3: But was there ever a situation where there was a

1517
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 3: jam session with you and Sheila on the stage at

1518
01:24:08,160 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 3: the same time with me? Yeah, well not really.

1519
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:19,560
Speaker 4: I was playing with Lenny at one point in we

1520
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:22,920
Speaker 4: were playing at the House of Blues in l a

1521
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:26,920
Speaker 4: and she she sat in, but that was on drums,

1522
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:28,120
Speaker 4: so we weren't playing together.

1523
01:24:28,600 --> 01:24:29,120
Speaker 1: That's what I meant.

1524
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:31,840
Speaker 4: Lennie invited her to sit in and I was cool

1525
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 4: with it.

1526
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:37,639
Speaker 6: So she sat in on something recently last year playing

1527
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 6: at again in the House of Blues. But here in

1528
01:24:39,960 --> 01:24:44,760
Speaker 6: Las Vegas, she was in the audience and I think

1529
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:49,720
Speaker 6: Carl Parasso brought her up and she was at the

1530
01:24:49,760 --> 01:24:56,560
Speaker 6: percussion his station, playing you know, some percussion, and I

1531
01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:58,800
Speaker 6: think that's the that's the closest it's ever been.

1532
01:25:00,960 --> 01:25:05,320
Speaker 2: Who's the most challenging musician that you've played with? Because

1533
01:25:05,360 --> 01:25:07,560
Speaker 2: I know that going into different situations. You don't know,

1534
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:10,200
Speaker 2: this is more laid back, like, there's more groove, there's

1535
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 2: more aggressive sounding. This soft sounding like for you, who's

1536
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:19,800
Speaker 2: like probably the most challenging project that you've you've played with.

1537
01:25:20,880 --> 01:25:24,799
Speaker 4: Most challenging. That's interesting from.

1538
01:25:24,680 --> 01:25:29,320
Speaker 2: The roots, that'd be really funny, No, don't.

1539
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:33,080
Speaker 6: Don Pullan was was challenging for me because.

1540
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:37,600
Speaker 4: It was also a great learning experience. I've played with

1541
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:42,960
Speaker 4: him for three years and before he passed, and it

1542
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:45,880
Speaker 4: was incredible because he was so strong on the piano,

1543
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:47,559
Speaker 4: so it gave me a.

1544
01:25:47,680 --> 01:25:54,280
Speaker 6: Chance to use volume and you know, intensity, but it

1545
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:58,679
Speaker 6: still had to be under the acoustic piano. He wasn't

1546
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 6: the electric instruments, so you know, you had to be

1547
01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:08,400
Speaker 6: able to figure out how to be intense at every

1548
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:09,800
Speaker 6: dynamic level.

1549
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:14,080
Speaker 4: That was a pretty amazing experience for me. That was

1550
01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:15,679
Speaker 4: one one, just one.

1551
01:26:18,280 --> 01:26:21,719
Speaker 2: For you, Like this journey that you've had in music

1552
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:25,439
Speaker 2: and creativity, Like, what is there left that you want

1553
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:28,839
Speaker 2: to achieve as far as your life's work is concerned.

1554
01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:35,560
Speaker 4: More explorations with my composition. I'm in the process of

1555
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:39,640
Speaker 4: recording a record now and we're adding strings to it,

1556
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:45,880
Speaker 4: which the strings are done by someone else. Eventually I

1557
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:47,960
Speaker 4: would like to do the strings. I mean, you know,

1558
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 4: we're getting into that kind of area where I mean me,

1559
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:54,760
Speaker 4: I'm getting into that kind of area where I want

1560
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:59,360
Speaker 4: to expand on not only what I'm playing, but you know,

1561
01:26:59,520 --> 01:27:03,000
Speaker 4: composition and then what I'm adding to those compositions, like

1562
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:04,920
Speaker 4: with strings or different things.

1563
01:27:04,720 --> 01:27:08,920
Speaker 6: For the arrangements. That's somewhere that I that I want

1564
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:13,240
Speaker 6: to go. And you know, I want to keep pushing

1565
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 6: the envelope of raising my my level. I mean, and

1566
01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:19,760
Speaker 6: not to compete with anybody, but just for me, you know,

1567
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:23,080
Speaker 6: to keep getting better and better. Yeah, just keep pushing

1568
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:24,280
Speaker 6: myself because.

1569
01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:26,360
Speaker 2: I have to.

1570
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:30,080
Speaker 4: You know. It's just it's kind of just embreded me

1571
01:27:30,479 --> 01:27:34,800
Speaker 4: to want to better myself at every turn.

1572
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 6: You know, so little things that I see, you know,

1573
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:40,280
Speaker 6: you really need to you know, up your game in that.

1574
01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:42,439
Speaker 6: You know, you really need to upgrade this. You know,

1575
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:45,880
Speaker 6: how about pushing the level of this or making that better.

1576
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 6: Oh you know I heard that, and that's okay, but

1577
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:50,680
Speaker 6: it can be so much better, you know.

1578
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:53,240
Speaker 4: So I'm really kind of hard on myself.

1579
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:57,280
Speaker 2: Well you know, even when you're not trying, you're pushing people.

1580
01:27:57,600 --> 01:27:59,040
Speaker 2: I was going to say in the story for the end,

1581
01:27:59,120 --> 01:28:01,800
Speaker 2: but I told already, But no, I thank you for

1582
01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:04,280
Speaker 2: even a role that you know you played in my

1583
01:28:04,360 --> 01:28:05,519
Speaker 2: life and in my health.

1584
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:09,760
Speaker 4: Mm hmm, wow, you know what, I love you so

1585
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:13,519
Speaker 4: much that I am overwhelmingly honored to hear any of that,

1586
01:28:13,760 --> 01:28:18,280
Speaker 4: because you know, I really think you're You're amazing.

1587
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:21,960
Speaker 6: You're you know, your your groove and your whole focus

1588
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:25,040
Speaker 6: when you play is awesome. You know, the different projects

1589
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:28,439
Speaker 6: that you get into doing, the films that you're doing,

1590
01:28:28,560 --> 01:28:32,320
Speaker 6: the books, it's just you know, you're just really like

1591
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:38,720
Speaker 6: very inspiringly all rounded in the stuff that you're doing.

1592
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:43,960
Speaker 6: So it's it's wonderful because we need we need influences

1593
01:28:44,439 --> 01:28:49,640
Speaker 6: that are positive, not just for right now and right

1594
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:52,760
Speaker 6: now is always important, but for for the generations coming up.

1595
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 6: You know, they need people to look up to and

1596
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:57,479
Speaker 6: to look at and and kind of be able to

1597
01:28:57,560 --> 01:29:00,280
Speaker 6: trace steps of who have done things that push the

1598
01:29:00,400 --> 01:29:02,960
Speaker 6: envelope in in many ways. And and you're one of

1599
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:05,720
Speaker 6: those people. So you know, I really appreciate it.

1600
01:29:07,439 --> 01:29:08,000
Speaker 4: What are you doing?

1601
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:13,120
Speaker 2: Thank you? And yes, yeah I took that compliment. She knows, No,

1602
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:23,760
Speaker 2: I love compliments anyway, No that I'm taking it in

1603
01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:27,880
Speaker 2: I didn't cringe. Thank you Sidney Blackman Santana for joining

1604
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:31,639
Speaker 2: us today Course Love Supreme. I'm paid Bill, Thank you, Lia,

1605
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:34,519
Speaker 2: thank you, I'm quest Love. Shout out to the crew

1606
01:29:35,080 --> 01:29:38,559
Speaker 2: Jake and uh Britt, Sugar Steve missed a good one

1607
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 2: and we'll see you next to go around y'all.

1608
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:44,719
Speaker 3: Thank you, Hey, Thank y'all be listening to cust Love Supreme.

1609
01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 3: This podcast is hosted by an Afro, a mouth, an engineer,

1610
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:50,880
Speaker 3: and a man with too many jobs aka a Mere

1611
01:29:50,960 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 3: quest Love Thompson, Why You Saint Clair, Sugar, Steve Mandel

1612
01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:58,479
Speaker 3: and unpaid Bill Sherman. The executive producers who get paid

1613
01:29:58,520 --> 01:30:01,640
Speaker 3: the big bucks a mere Ques Thompson, Sean g and

1614
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:05,800
Speaker 3: Brian Calhoun asked them for money. Produced by the people

1615
01:30:05,840 --> 01:30:08,840
Speaker 3: who do all the real work Britney Benjamin, Jake Payne,

1616
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:11,960
Speaker 3: and Yes, why are you a Saint Clair? Edited by

1617
01:30:12,000 --> 01:30:15,280
Speaker 3: another person who does the real work, Alex Conroy and

1618
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:18,320
Speaker 3: those who approved the real work. Produced for iHeart by

1619
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:19,080
Speaker 3: Noel Brown.

1620
01:30:20,680 --> 01:30:27,479
Speaker 1: West Slop's Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For

1621
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:30,679
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

1622
01:30:30,920 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,