1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: I've never told you protection of I Heart Radio. Today. 3 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: We're so thrilled to be joining the virtual studio space 4 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: by our friend and colleague Bridget Todd. Hello, Bridget, Hello, 5 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be back here with you all. 6 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: Say we missed you. Welcome back, thank you, thank you. 7 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: I missed you too. As always, we know, we know 8 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: you're constantly going. Well. I can always make room for 9 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: my two favorite ladies. Yeah, we were discussing before this. 10 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: We're very excited for this topic, particularly because we have 11 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: different levels of experience when it comes to computers and technology, 12 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: and in this case, Samantha, you're saying you don't know 13 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: Mac very well. No, I am so not in the loop. 14 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: I've never used the Mac. I don't have an iPhone. 15 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: I'm so far away from those products. And I'm a 16 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: little scared of it because every time I've been on Friends, 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: I literally look at it and touch a button, something 18 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,119 Speaker 1: goes around and I hand it back. I'm like, I'm sorry, 19 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: You're like I launched a missile. I don't know what. 20 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm pretty sure I just started to war 21 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: somewhere I'm so sorry because my phone is a swipe. 22 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: And one time my friend handed me her her phone 23 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 1: and was like, can you textas message? And it was 24 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: not a swipe and I stared at it, like, this 25 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: makes no sense to me. I cannot figure this. Yeah, 26 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: when it becomes like technology, when you're used to one 27 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: way and then you try to figure out something else, 28 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: I feel like it's a trap. It's so true. It's 29 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: so true. So I use an iPhone. Most of my 30 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: friends do not use iPhones that use like Google pixels. 31 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: When I am handed at Google pixel, it does not 32 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: matter how many times I have been schooled and how 33 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: to do the most the most basic stuff. I'm not 34 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: talking about anything advance. I have to ask that, wait, 35 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: is it this? Is it that? Every time? Whatever? Right? 36 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: Which actually relates really well to what we're we're talking 37 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: about today. So who did you bring for us to 38 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: discuss bridget to today? We're discussing Susan care I'm so 39 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: excited to talk about her, mostly because so it's Women's 40 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: History months, and so I think it's a good time 41 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: to honor women who you know, maybe don't always get 42 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: a lot of the loud public support, and also the 43 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: fact that Susan Care, despite being very much part of 44 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: tech history, she's still alive. She's still with us. I'm 45 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,679 Speaker 1: a big believer in giving people their flowers while they're 46 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: still alive to smell them, and so not waiting until 47 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: someone is no longer here to be like, oh, I 48 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: loved their work, I loved their work, but celebrating their 49 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: achievements and their legacy while they're still here. She's very 50 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: much still in tech, making tech history as we speak. 51 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: And I also just feel like sometimes I come on 52 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: the show and I bring topics that are a little 53 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: negative because let's face it, sometimes being a woman on 54 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: the Internet is not that fun. But there's also lots 55 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: of fun, joyous, cool, perky aspects of it as well. 56 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: So I'm super excited to talk about Susan Care. Yes, 57 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 1: and I never heard about her story, and I loved 58 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: it so much because, um, I know we've talked before 59 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: on the show a lot about women in technology space 60 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 1: and now there is often that these negative aspects to 61 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 1: it are being intimidated off of it in various ways, 62 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: and as somebody who's really creative, like we're in my 63 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: cosplay closet as I call it, in here, but like, 64 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: I love the application of how she got into technology. 65 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: I think it is such a great story. Yes, yes, 66 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: so let's get into it. I mean, so, if you've 67 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: ever spent any time around not just Max but computers 68 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: in general, you have probably encountered Susan Care's work for 69 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: her legacy. So first and foremost, I should say, if 70 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: you have not seen a picture of her, there's an 71 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: iconic picture of her with this like awesome eighties blown 72 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: out curly hair and a sweatshirt and these like amazing 73 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: new Balance sneakers, with her sneakers kicked up on her 74 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: desk at her old school computer. Y'all please google a 75 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: picture of her, because it is iconic and truly just 76 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: this one picture. I saw it on the subreddit old 77 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: school Cool. I was like, who is this woman? I 78 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: have to look her up and find out everything about her. 79 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: She's amazing. Yes, it's so effortlessly cool in a way 80 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: that I will never achieve. Like I saw it and 81 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: I was like wow. I mean, like I'm looking at 82 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: it right now, I have to google it, and I'm like, 83 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: this is kind of what people want to look like today. 84 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: I saw the outdated computers in the background which, by 85 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: the way, I use those in elementary school, so don't 86 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: start with me like she I'm like, no, you are. 87 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: She is exactly what people are like, Oh we want 88 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 1: to look like this. This is such a great throwback, 89 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: and she looks so comfortable, so relxed and ridiculously cool. 90 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 1: I want to be this cool. Yes, she is like 91 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: an advertisement forever Lane, Like I feel like that norm 92 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: core like vibes of like oh baggy, baggy sweatshirt and 93 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: like like relaxed fit. Geez, she's rocking it. Honestly, you 94 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: could wear the outfit that she's wearing in like nineteen 95 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 1: eighty whatever this photo was taken. You could work today 96 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: and people will be like, oh, cool outfit, That's what 97 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like this outfit looks so comfortable. But again, yeah, 98 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: she looks so freaking stylish, and I'm like, I don't 99 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: want to be back here in this fashion because I 100 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: did wear that once upon a time, and that was 101 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: when it was supposed to be cool, when I was 102 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: a young baby. So I love that. So Susan care 103 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: She defined a huge part of the digital infrastructure of 104 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: using a Mac computer back in the eighties, and so 105 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 1: I'm talking all of the fonts, all of the typography, 106 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: and all of the little icons. And so if you 107 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: ever remember the little happy Mac when you booted up 108 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: a computer, like the little computer with a smiley face, 109 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: that was Suson Care the concept of the icons for 110 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: your computer sort of matching up with the thing that 111 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: you were going to do. Even if you don't use 112 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: a Mac, even if you use a PC, that's still 113 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 1: a con up that we used today. So she really 114 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,039 Speaker 1: was an early architect of how being online sort of 115 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,360 Speaker 1: looked and felt, and then also just sort of the 116 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: concept of it, sort of how we conceptually move around 117 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: and we're using a computer. And it's funny because I 118 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 1: had also never heard of her. I then using a 119 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: Mac for most of my life. It was like the 120 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: first computer that we had in our home when I 121 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: was a kid, like in what my parents called the 122 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: computer room, where like you couldn't you could never bring 123 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: a snack or a drink or my my dad would 124 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 1: kill you. Was a Mac. And I had never even 125 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: heard of her, even though she had shaped such a 126 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: big part of my online experiences both as a child 127 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: and today. So I really excited to be, you know, 128 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: giving her a little bit of shine, because that's that's 129 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: so iconic that she, you know, was that architect of that. 130 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 1: The whole story that I had about this like this 131 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: happy Mac and the one reason I kind of know 132 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 1: what that is now I've seen the other things. I've 133 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: seen the watch well icon before. I feel like a 134 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: lot of these are associated to me as something bad 135 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: is about happened because I did something wrong. Signs usually 136 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: because the one episode that I remember with in Sex 137 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: in the City, Yeah, we're gonna go, You're we're talking 138 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: about where her mac crashes and she gets a sad 139 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: Mac and the dude keeps telling her you got the 140 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: sad Mac, Sorry, you can't fix it in this whole 141 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: conversation about the sad Mac, and I'm like, why does 142 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: it have to be a sad mag? And then the 143 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 1: dead Man because I've got the exs all that I 144 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: said about how angry it looks, I was like, yeah, 145 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: that does not make me want to get a mac. Yeah, 146 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: if I feel like that episode probably scared a lot 147 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: of people. Also a fun fact that is how deep 148 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: my Sex in the City knowledge goes the guy who 149 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: tells her that at the computer store. Assume Mandy from 150 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: the Daily show. Yes, yes, yes, So it's like, oh, 151 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: he's a comedian. I love it when they bring in 152 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: comedians that you really know, but you you always know 153 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: their face. Love it, love it, and you gotta hop 154 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: on board. This is what you're missing out when you 155 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: haven't seen Sex in the City and he's never seen it. 156 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: She's seen like two episodes. I've seen one of the 157 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: first episode, and that's it. Really girl, girl, what are 158 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: you putting on in the background while you're like doing 159 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: something else? Like, what are you putting on in the 160 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: background when you're doing the dishes? Come on, I'm ready, 161 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: I want to I want to embark on this journey. 162 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: I'm just a little nervous, but so Bridget. When we 163 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: have our Sex in the City, we're gonna do a 164 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: watch and like kind of live watching, live viewing party. 165 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: You will join us, yes, of course, you know, and 166 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: they're getting ready to make another view viewing of a 167 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: movie which I mean, I have a love hit relationship 168 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: with Sex in the City and that you look back 169 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: and you're like, well this was problematic or like well 170 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: this is not good, but there's just something about it 171 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: where I'm like, I know, I'll probably watch it, like 172 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: I know they're they're they're like, you'll take this like 173 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: problematic movie with like a bunch of lazy puns, Like 174 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: we're just taking it, Like I think that's what I want. 175 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 1: But I mean, like Sarah Jessica Parker's character Carrie that 176 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: mac at the very beginning, like at all of the things, 177 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 1: like the fact that she carries it around, likes her treasure, 178 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: like she like she in the Mad go hand in 179 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: hand the show her work. I feel it is grounded 180 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 1: around the Mac. Like you kept watching the episode towards 181 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: the end, when she moves to Paris, she leaves her 182 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: Mac in her apartment to like Charlotte goes to her 183 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: apartment and she's like her computer was just sitting there, 184 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: Like it's like such a big deal. And it's actually 185 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: funny that you say this, because when I was thinking 186 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 1: through this episode, I didn't think about this. But now 187 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, how many different times have 188 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: Max been Like I'm thinking of um legally blonde. When 189 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: mel Woods goes to get her like orange mac and 190 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,559 Speaker 1: all of her like stuffy law students are on their 191 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: black laptops and she's on the orange Mac. I guess 192 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: I had never really thought about how many times Max 193 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:50,680 Speaker 1: have been sort of part of popular culture. Left hands, 194 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: it kind of goes into like being a designer piece. Almost. Yeah, 195 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: I think I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure 196 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: you don't have to get a shinto show Mac. Like 197 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: normally you have to get the companies and pay. But 198 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: they wanted people to think, like, oh, this is a 199 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: cool style, is ubiquitous technology. I think the only time 200 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: you have to check is if it's something like real 201 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: real bad, like real bad bear for yeah, you're like 202 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: beating a man to death with it the only time. 203 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: But I mean, like I remember as I'm looking at 204 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: some of these things, and I remember seeing little bomb 205 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: icon as a part of the show as well. And again, 206 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: like I said, that to me is like a big 207 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: warning sign. I mean, yeah, I don't know what the 208 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: bomb means, but the bomb means something bad. Yeah, the 209 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: bomb you see the bomb designed by Susan care. Hopefully 210 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: you never have to see it, but if you, if 211 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 1: you put in a command that like doesn't work and 212 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: it's like oh no, good bad, you know. And also 213 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: I mean even the even the different icons that you're 214 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: describing the sad Mac the bomb, one of the things 215 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: that that Susan Care really um architect was this idea 216 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: of the interface being super user friendly. So when you 217 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: do something that is bad, it is very obvious that 218 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: it is bad, it is a bomb, it is a 219 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: sad face, like it could not be more clear that 220 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: you have done something incorrect. Or when something is good, 221 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:14,599 Speaker 1: you know, when you would boot up a Mac, you 222 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: would see a smiley face. All of that was intentionally 223 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 1: designed by Care to make people who you know, might 224 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: have been using a computer for the first time, who 225 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 1: might have been a little bit skinnish about using a computer, 226 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: help them sort of shepherd them through the experience in 227 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: ways that are like super easy to understand, which I 228 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: really appreciate as someone who, even as someone who enjoys tech, 229 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 1: has to be a little bit like tech challenged, shall 230 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: we say, as I am, it definitely tells me what 231 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: I'm doing something wrong. Definitely, I'm like, oh, I'm just waiting, 232 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: great and look at that happy face exactly. Yes, And 233 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: those are things you take for granted, right, Like somebody 234 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: had to think through that process and design those things, 235 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 1: especially when computers were so new and people were like, 236 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: what is this huge, bicky miss thing that's expensive. I 237 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: don't want to wreck it by press the button exactly 238 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: what I mean, what's funny is it? Like some people 239 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:09,199 Speaker 1: who are a bit younger might be thinking, oh, what's 240 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 1: the big deal, but truly, like keep in mind that 241 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: back then, in the early days of personal computers, like 242 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: most people did not have a personal computer in their 243 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: home at that point, and so computers were these big, clunky, 244 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: boxing nightmares that were really inclined forward mathematicians or engineers, 245 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: not just like your regular user. And so somebody had 246 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 1: to take the time to design ways of like illustrating 247 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: what you were doing in ways that would be simple 248 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: and user friendly and not scary, not intimidating, because if 249 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: you know, if the whole idea is that you want 250 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: people to feel the freedom of having a personal computer 251 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: like in their house, it has to feel like something 252 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: they can really master themselves. And so Susan Kerre's design 253 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: I think was a big part of why personal computing 254 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: leader took on took off. Her hustory is pretty interesting. 255 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: Why don't you tell us how he even Scott started 256 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: into this industry. So this is my favorite thing. So 257 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: her background was in art, right, so she was a sculptor, 258 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: she worked in visual arts, and so she is not 259 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: someone who has hard technical skill. She described herself as 260 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: completely non technical and the reason that she first got 261 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:16,959 Speaker 1: involved in graphic design in the first places because her 262 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: mom taught her these these skills that we, I guess 263 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: commonly associate with femininity, so like needle point and embroidery, 264 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: which luckily those two skills work in small grids. So 265 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: if you've ever done needle point, you know you're moving 266 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: a thread through like a tiny box. And so when 267 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: she was designing things on a computer for Apple, it 268 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: also was a small box. And so if it wasn't 269 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 1: for her mom teaching her these highly kind of like 270 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: domestic tasks, we might not like personal computing, might be 271 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: might have gone a completely different direction. And so I 272 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: just love that because it's such a good reminder that 273 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: you don't have to be a coder, you don't have 274 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: to be a hacker to make an impression in tech 275 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: or to have ownership of right. And so I always 276 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: like to remember that that if it wasn't for her 277 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: mom teaching out how to sew and do needle point, truly, 278 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: I might not be recording this podcast on my Mac 279 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: look pro Right now things might look different when you're 280 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: thinking about people you do associate with, particularly mac but 281 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: like technology and computers in general is often men, and 282 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: you do often have this assumption that, oh, there must 283 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: be like really technically minded and gotten a lot of 284 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: education in those fields, and like the names we remember 285 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: are them. But this is a huge part what Susan 286 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: care did is a huge part of how the technology 287 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: we use it in particularly with Max, but in other things. 288 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: Um and it is what you like, a non traditional 289 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: route and this sort of feminized skill set and this 290 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 1: kind of traditionally masculized or seen as a very maculine field. 291 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: And I just love it. I love it so much. Yeah, 292 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: it makes me. It's it's a good reminder for all 293 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: of us. You know. I did an interview on my 294 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: own podcast with this really amazing historian and technologist Claire Evans, 295 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: and she has this book all about like the history 296 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: of women in computing, and I guess the thesis would be, 297 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: you know that we are often told that technology is 298 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: a boys club and that women and other marginalized people 299 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: are trying to like break break their way in, but 300 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: actually women have been at the start of computing. Sin's 301 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: the beginning, and so it's like, rightfully our domain. We 302 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: are not trying to break in anywhere, like it is 303 00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: our landscape. And that some of the reasons why women 304 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: kind of get pushed out of tech, both you know, 305 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: in terms of like careers, but also just in terms 306 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: of like who gets remembered, who doesn't, who goes over looks. 307 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: First of all, just to be clear, a lot of 308 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: it is just good old fashioned sexism, like nothing, nothing 309 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: special about that. But then another aspect of it is 310 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: exactly what you were saying, is that a lot of 311 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: times the contributions that women have made to computers and 312 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: technology are things that are a little bit harder to preserve. 313 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: And so you know, if you if you make an 314 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: actual computer that can go in a museum, that's that's 315 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: a solid tangible thing. If you design a concept or 316 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: you know, do something cool on a message board or 317 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: develop an icon or you know something graphic that is 318 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: that is less tangible, those things are harder to preserve 319 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: and sort of more ephemeral. And so a lot of 320 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: that work throughout the years has been associated with women 321 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: and and feminization, this idea that like women are a 322 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: lot of the times the ones who are building the 323 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: things that are a little more difficult to hold onto, 324 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: and thus these contributions can really go overlooked and less 325 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: we make intentional efforts to preserve them, to highlight them, 326 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: to amplify them, all of that. So completely agree, completely agree. Yes, 327 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: I mean here we are talking about it, and because 328 00:16:57,840 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: I'll take every opportunity to bring it up. I do 329 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: think too if you look at something like fan fiction 330 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: the website AO three was one of the biggest coding 331 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: projects of its time, and it was women who did it, 332 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: but it doesn't get a lot of respect because it's 333 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: women in marginalized people who did it, and it's seen 334 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,360 Speaker 1: as this kind of weird corner of women fandom and 335 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: not therefore not worth the respect as something else more masculine. Right, 336 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: technology is nothing without people using it for something right 337 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:30,160 Speaker 1: without users, and so have those people who were who 338 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: were building that there were architects of something important and 339 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: and like that, we would not even see that as 340 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 1: worthy of preservation or like mentioning is a real crime. 341 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 1: And I think we really do have to go back 342 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: and look at history and say, well, where are the 343 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: times where because this was associated with women or marginalized 344 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: people just doing something geeky on the internet. You know 345 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: how women are, whether it's fan fiction or you know, 346 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: recipe blogs or anything like that. Why do those things 347 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: not deserve to be remembered in the same way that 348 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 1: some of the other more obvious contributions to computing and 349 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: technology in our digital landscape. Like, I completely agree that 350 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: we need to have a whole scale sort of rethinking 351 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: of what what is worthy of preservation because I'm not 352 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: down to just live in a world where the stuff 353 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: that we make, that marginalized people, that women make, it's 354 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 1: just not worthy of preservation. No way. Yeah, absolutely not. 355 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: Thank you for letting me bring up fan fictioneral the time. 356 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: I'm gonna not help myself. But I also think it's 357 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: a good like correlation to Susan Care's story, where there 358 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: is this sort of like creative, non technical thing that 359 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: she was involved with and she was able to translate 360 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: that into technology because there was this need and I 361 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: think also like again having to kind of predict what 362 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: people's concerns would be and like predict what would soothe 363 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: those concerns and be clear, like coming perhaps coming from 364 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: a different background actually helped her with that. I think. 365 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: So I love that point, I think so. So. She 366 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: said that when she first got the call to design 367 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: things for Apple, she was just like, I don't know 368 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 1: what any of this is. I love this little detail. 369 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: She was in the middle of working on a life 370 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: size sculpture of a hog when she gotta which, like, 371 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: if that doesn't, if that doesn't tell you all you 372 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 1: know about care? I feel like that really? Oh I 373 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: want to Yes, that's a good question. I want to know. 374 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: I want to see this picture of what she was 375 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: working on. Did she get to finish it? Yes? I 376 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: need please elbow deep and hog right like. She gets 377 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 1: this call from Andy Hertzfield, she had gone to high 378 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: school with and he was a member of the original 379 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: Apple McIntosh development team during the eighties, and he asked 380 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: her to hand draw some icons and bonds to help 381 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,719 Speaker 1: inspire what was going to be this like Mac Interdaze, 382 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 1: this was a completely new co up. To her, She's like, 383 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: I had no idea what I was doing. But luckily 384 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: Andy had an idea because he knew that she worked 385 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: with design and graphics. He told her to go out 386 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 1: and buy the smallest, tiniest graph paper that she could 387 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: find and then use it to block out thirty two 388 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: squares and filled them with color to kind of come 389 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: up with the designs because what she would be designing 390 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: would be a matrix that was essentially a grid. So 391 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: again back to that sort of needle point embroidery um 392 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: upbringing that she had, which really helped her work in 393 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: this grid function. Like truly probably could not have provided 394 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: a better basis or education for the work that she 395 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: would go on to be doing that she had no idea, 396 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: you know, that she would be so foundational in and 397 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,160 Speaker 1: luckily these skills really came to her rescue. She says. 398 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,199 Speaker 1: Bit map graphics are like mosaics and needle point and 399 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: other pseudo digital art forms, all of which I had 400 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: practiced before going to Apple. This is what she told 401 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: somebody to an interview in two thousand. So again like 402 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: you never know what skill is going to apply later 403 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: in your life. Like I'm sure when her mom was 404 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: teaching her needle point to probably was like this is 405 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: really fun and awesome. She probably was not thinking and 406 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: I will go on to revolutionize personal computing because you 407 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: have taught me how to do needle point moms. Right, Yeah, 408 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: So I I run a Dungeons and Dragon's campaign, and 409 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: I use Python coding to uh run it. So basically 410 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: Python is a bunch of if then statements. But I 411 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: think you can you can take like a really creative, 412 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: non technical thing and you can construct it in a 413 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: way where you can like make it work in that sense, 414 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: because if you think about like conversation, if X then y, 415 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: like you can I don't know, It's something I find 416 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: really interesting that you can take those things and you 417 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: can experiment with them in that way. You could take 418 00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: needle point and think about it in this way of 419 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: like coding, like I I love that stuff. Are there 420 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: other things that you learned that you feel might help 421 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: you when you're doing when you're coding and Python, like 422 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: other other skills that you're like, oh, I wouldn't have 423 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 1: thought that this would be, um, something that would help 424 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: me think about Python, but actually has been helpful. So 425 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: something that helps me like use Python more or just 426 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 1: in general in in the work that you do when 427 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: you're building out these things. The reason I started doing 428 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: that is because essentially it's almost exactly like this. You 429 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: have to when you're running a game. You have to 430 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,360 Speaker 1: predict what people are going to do, and that could 431 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: be anything, right, like that could be literally anything. And 432 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: so you it's like project management where you have to 433 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: analyze a person and then try to make that work 434 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: in a game system, right, like in a kind of 435 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: technical rule based games. So you've got this like really 436 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 1: I logical chaotic person. Now I've got to make that 437 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: work in a way where I can say, like if X, 438 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: then Y so the game doesn't break. So I would 439 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: say like reading people and project management because again a 440 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 1: lot of interactions in life. It's almost cold to think 441 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: of it this way, but you can see in a 442 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 1: like technical sense of like person, why needs this? Therefore 443 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: these actions happen, like you can map out to a 444 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: certain extent people and their behavior. That's so fascinating. It's 445 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: a whole theo. You have to do all these little 446 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,239 Speaker 1: like hypothesis of this may happen. So you have two 447 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: problem solve ahead of time. Which I know nothing about 448 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: dungeons and dragons, just what she tells me. It's wild. 449 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,520 Speaker 1: I mean it completely, and I think if you take 450 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: that to its logical next step like in tech workplaces 451 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: and stuff. This is why I always say, if you're 452 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,119 Speaker 1: someone who's listening and you're like, I want to be 453 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 1: more involved in tech. I want to work in a 454 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: tech space. You do not have to have tech card 455 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,440 Speaker 1: skills to be someone who makes your living or takes 456 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: off a big foot print in text. People need to 457 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 1: have people reading skills, problem solving skills, critical thinking skills. 458 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: Those are not, you know, necessarily what we think of 459 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: as like tech hard skills, but these are all things 460 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: that go into you know, working, like being able to 461 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,639 Speaker 1: think in this way. And so I just love this 462 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 1: example because I think it really does illustrate how all 463 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: of these different skills that aren't necessarily the the hard 464 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: skill or knowing Python or knowing you know, knowing the code, 465 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,719 Speaker 1: they will help you when you're when you're doing these 466 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: kinds of things. It's like a whole way of thinking. 467 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: I love that example. I mean, there's definitely a whole 468 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: correlation between art, music, and math, and we know that 469 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 1: that's been proven to be linkage, and which is why 470 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: would people talk about losing arts and losing music is 471 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: really detrimental for a lot of kids learnings and just 472 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: um overall development. And this is one of those more 473 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 1: things because not only what she's doing art, but she's 474 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: an amazing at which I saw some of the pieces 475 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: that she's selling. Now, I'm like, wow, it's gorgeous. But 476 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:58,360 Speaker 1: that that translated into yeah, these little squares and dots 477 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: in which also equals numbers and such. This is me 478 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,400 Speaker 1: knowing all this stuff obviously, but the fact that it's 479 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 1: a greater picture of how it's all correlated and it 480 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,639 Speaker 1: is linked. Oh absolutely, And I mean that's why I 481 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: obviously am such a big advocate for young people going 482 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,200 Speaker 1: into stem and steam fields and get and getting that 483 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: kind of education. But I also think you're exactly right there. 484 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: You have to have a well rounded approach. And so 485 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: if we lose the art, if we lose music and 486 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: the funding for these things, when people are like, oh 487 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: well just learn to code and get a job like that, 488 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: it'll be so much harder if these students are not 489 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,360 Speaker 1: well rounded students who do not have a well rounded 490 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: art education. And so you know, I am an English major, 491 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: right like, I did not have a hard skills background. 492 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: So many people who made it a big splash in 493 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: tech had arts degrees, humanities degrees, you know, studied music, 494 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: studied literature, and so I definitely I am a big 495 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: advocate for a well rounded approach. I am not someone 496 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: who was like, Oh, just learned to code. That will 497 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: solve all your problems, because we do need all kinds 498 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: of skills to have, you know, young people who are 499 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: really equipped to go into these fields. Yeah. Absolutely. And 500 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: one of the things in this story, and Susan Carey's 501 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: story is one of my favorite kind of random I 502 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: guess it's a good tell of when you grew up 503 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,240 Speaker 1: in terms of technology when you're talking about your legacy, 504 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: because if you examine some of these symbols, like my 505 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: ex boyfriend used to argue so hard, like we need 506 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: to redefine what these mean because they don't mean the 507 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: same thing anymore. Right, One is the icon for saving. 508 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,199 Speaker 1: If you could talk about that, Oh, it's such a 509 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: good one. So Susan care came up with that concept 510 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,679 Speaker 1: of the icon being an association or an illustration of 511 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: the thing that you were doing. So like the paint 512 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: bucket being used to phillosurpence with color, or like this 513 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: isn't as being used to be the cut function, So 514 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: when you think about the save function, right, So if 515 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: you are a contemporary of me, and I think Annie 516 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,479 Speaker 1: and Samantha, I think you've got you all as well. 517 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 1: When you were saving something, you had to save it 518 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: on a floppy disk. You can put a floppy disk 519 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: that square with the metal thing on it into your computer. 520 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: And not only that, you had to manually hit save 521 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: every I don't know, twenty minutes. Otherwise it wouldn't save. 522 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 1: Now here, you're probably working on Google Docs for some 523 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 1: other kind of interface. It saves automatically. You don't have 524 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: to put any kind of external thing into your computer 525 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,160 Speaker 1: for to save. This. The concept is so different, Yet, 526 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: the little disc it's still the image for save, and 527 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: so I almost wonder, like, I don't know that young 528 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 1: people know what that. I like, they're probably not as 529 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: innately familiar with like the floppy disc as they are. 530 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: Yet that is still the icon for save, even though 531 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,959 Speaker 1: you don't even really have to say that they used to, right. 532 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: It's funny how it's endured. Oh my god, you just 533 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: reminded me. We did a time capsule I think in 534 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 1: my eighth grade, sixth grade year, and I think I 535 00:27:55,359 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: put in a thing of floppy disk. Yeah. I have 536 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: a lot of floppy disk memories. I remember, Oh my god, 537 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: if he's listening to this, he's gonna kill me. My 538 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: older brother he had to do a class project, and 539 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: at the time we were fighting, and I remember he 540 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: had it on a floppy desk that he left on 541 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: the computer, and I swapped it out with a blank one, 542 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: so like I put his put his in my backpack, 543 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: and put a blank one on on the computer. So 544 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: when he got to school he was like, wait, where's 545 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: my project? That's met It was very fatty. It was 546 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: very fatty. If he's listening to this, I apologize, but 547 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: you know you're deserved it. Yeah, but yeah, no, I 548 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: just remember that because I knew that it would be 549 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: outdated by that point. You were right, you were you 550 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: were like prophetic here right, I'm trying. It costs a 551 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: lot of money, so I can't believe I did that. 552 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: Oh they used to be hella expensive, was like thirty dollars. Yeah, 553 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: I'm trying, Like why maybe I put one. I just 554 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: remember putting something to do with the floppy does so, like, 555 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna put this in here, guys, It's gonna make 556 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: it dumb. I love it. It's like one of those things, 557 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: you know how. I think some comedian has this this 558 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: line and is stand up where when you're driving and 559 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: you want someone to roll down their window. Even though 560 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: most cars no longer have the crank, that's still the 561 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: motion that you do to tell someone, even though you're like, well, 562 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: the cars haven't really had this for a while, why 563 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: am I doing this? That's still the enduring motion that 564 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: you do, but it keeps it. Yeah, that's the things 565 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: like she created this in the eighties and it's still 566 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: iconic and it's still used today. And even though I 567 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 1: may not have known what a mac was, it was 568 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: definitely universally used. Well, And that's funny to think about 569 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: to you, because there's some technologies like the floppy disk 570 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 1: that did just go by the wayside. And that's one 571 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: of my favorite things. Back to the future too, when 572 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: they thought the fax machine was going to be the thing, 573 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,479 Speaker 1: um but like the you have a story in here 574 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 1: about like the copy machine, right what she so, she 575 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,400 Speaker 1: was initially going to have the copy function be a 576 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: little illustration of a copy machine that you would drag 577 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: and drop your file that you wanted to be duplicated 578 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: onto the copier. But copy machines are like kind of 579 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,239 Speaker 1: complicated and like difficult to render at that size, and 580 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: so that didn't work. And then she got this idea 581 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: to try an illustration of a cat in a mirror, 582 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: which I feel like that really tells me a lot 583 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: about how she was thinking about these illustrations, Like that's 584 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: a really like using a cat looking into a mirror 585 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: as a way to illustrate the copy functionality. I don't know, 586 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 1: I just want that to be a very interesting manifestation 587 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: of what the copy function does, you know what I mean, 588 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,239 Speaker 1: because it started with the se but I approved that. 589 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: I want that now. I know. I wish that was 590 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: the case. That's the direction we've gone. And I can 591 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: just imagine, I mean, that would be iconic if that 592 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: is what it was like today. That'd be on shirts 593 00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: like the cat, the cat just staring into the mirror. Yeah, 594 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 1: the copycat. I think you don't get it. Yeah, yeah, 595 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: I love it. I'm so good. That is a creative mind, 596 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: like perhaps not the most intuitive like that, Like I 597 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,760 Speaker 1: think that what she ended up going with was like 598 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: much better. But it's like I can sort of see 599 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: her her logic. I guess in what she was going 600 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: for with the with the copycat in the mirror. It's 601 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: so good. I'm good with it. I would have approved 602 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 1: it immediately. So at the top you said that cares 603 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: still alive today, what's she's up to. So that's my 604 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: favorite thing about this story is that I feel so 605 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: often when we're talking about somebody who had a great impact, 606 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about them after they have, you know, aged 607 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: out of whatever they're doing, or they passed away. Not care. 608 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: Car is still very much alive and very much involved 609 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: in tech. So today she works at Pinterest, where you 610 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: are probably familiar if you use Pinterest with some of 611 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: her current designs. She designed the image on Pinterest that 612 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: is modeled after the pushpin that symbolizes pinning an item, 613 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: So again that kind of idea of having the icon 614 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: be kind of a visualization of what the user is 615 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,959 Speaker 1: supposed to be doing, and the spinning button that appears 616 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: on Pinterest when you refreshed. So very much still a 617 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: person involved in imagining what tech looks like today, the 618 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: tech that we use all the time. If you use Pinterest, 619 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: she's in your Her designs are in your pocket. You 620 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: know which I just I just love. You can also 621 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: find her notebooks today. They're part of the permanent collections 622 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: that the New York and San Francisco Modern Art Museum, 623 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: which the one in New York is my favorite art 624 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: museum on the planet. It's so cool. Cannot wait to 625 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: get back there when COVID is over. And one was 626 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: included in the recent London Design Museum exhibit called California 627 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: Design Freedom. So yeah, she still is this, you know, 628 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: representing this past and present and perhaps future of design 629 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: when it comes to tech, you know, still out there, 630 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: still shaping how we conceptualize the tech that we use 631 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: every day. I love that so much, and I just 632 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: realized that. I guess if you look at movies or 633 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: TV show that's another application where it's not necessarily a 634 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,600 Speaker 1: real world application. But if you were a designer and 635 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: you're designing like something sci fi, what will this look 636 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: like in the future, What does this like technology or 637 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: button or whatever represent and then being able to communicate 638 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: that two audiences. So yeah, there's a lot of applications here. Definitely. 639 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: Did you say, Samantha she has art you can still 640 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: get Oh? Yes, she uh had a collection where some 641 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: of the and I don't know, Samantha, I don't know 642 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: if this is what you're referring to. But if you 643 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: go to care prints dot com you can find her 644 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: limited edition prints and they include like the like little 645 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 1: logos and things that she designed. You can get like 646 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: the sad mac on a poster or the time bomb 647 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: on a T shirt. Right, So, like some of herself 648 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: is really nice, Like I really wouldn't mind one of 649 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: these blankets that had all these different icons on it 650 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: that she designed. And what's funny is that when you 651 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: go to Caraprince dot com, they talked about how she 652 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: was one of the original originators of what we think 653 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: of today is you know, emojis, And so I hadn't 654 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 1: even really thought about that that her designs as why 655 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: and I'm emoji obsessed if you ever text me get 656 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 1: ready to get a million emojis? But yeah, just how 657 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,160 Speaker 1: how fundamental that is in terms of how we think of, 658 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: you know, representing things online. Yes, and that's another great 659 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: example of what we were talking about earlier, where emojis 660 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: filled a gap that was missing, right, and we had 661 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: to like kind of envision what are these emotions? What 662 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 1: is this trying to convey? And like that is another 663 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: example of something that's kind of artistic but being in 664 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: this very kind of technical world. Right. Also, Annie, I 665 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: don't know this is what I read earlier. It has 666 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: something that is related to your superpower, one of your 667 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:17,320 Speaker 1: useless superpowers, which is including fonts or face? Are you 668 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: getting recognized emotions when I was calling you out, um, 669 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: which I'll I don't know, you could be lying to 670 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: me just randomly naming a font and I'm just believing you. 671 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, because like Chicago was one of them. I 672 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:33,719 Speaker 1: know that was one of her first type face is 673 00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,760 Speaker 1: what it called. And then the emojis, which was cairo. 674 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,520 Speaker 1: So how do you say that? C I r oh, 675 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 1: But that's the blanket, right, So she went even further 676 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: into the world of computer stuff. I'm so officially all 677 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,919 Speaker 1: I'm amazing. But the fact that she actually created type 678 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: face that actually created like fonts is an interesting thing 679 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,720 Speaker 1: because I've always wondered who does this? And also, Annie, 680 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: why do you know these? Could you recognize what Chicago 681 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: looks like? For the for the listeners who don't know this, 682 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: I have a very useless superpower. It's not as good 683 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: anymore because I used to edit video all the time, 684 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: and I actually would because a font does convey an emotion, 685 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: all right, it does help shape work. Everybody loves comic sands, right, sure, 686 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: that's what everybody loves and so I can recognize a 687 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 1: font like it is one of my most annoying. You 688 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 1: get a little alcohol in me and I'll be like, 689 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:37,839 Speaker 1: there's Nancy's chalkboard. I apologize that anyone I've ever done 690 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: that too. Do you have a favorite font? That's a 691 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: good question, because I used to really love I loved 692 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: the ones that looked like people's handwriting. So I did 693 00:36:50,080 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: really like marker felt one with a very little bit 694 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: of drop shadow very little, or like Nancy's. I like 695 00:36:58,120 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: Nancy's chok work, but I don't know if I would 696 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: say those are my favorite, but they were once I'd 697 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,680 Speaker 1: turned to a lot because they I wanted those videos 698 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,839 Speaker 1: to feel very approachable, which is actually the stuff I've 699 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 1: never told you videos. So they're on YouTube and you 700 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,400 Speaker 1: can go look at all my chalk and marker based fonts. 701 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: I need to do this right away. I also love 702 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 1: a good fun, you know, like I'm not even someone 703 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: who is technical in this way, but like good design 704 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: is really important, like bad design. I can't tell you 705 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: how many times I've been on like a restaurant website 706 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: page where I'm like, this is so infuriating, the fun 707 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: is terrible, and this user experience is terrible. I don't 708 00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: even want to go to this restaurant anymore. Like good 709 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: like good design can really open some doors and bad 710 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:42,399 Speaker 1: design can really close them. I'll just put it that way. 711 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: You are completely correct, But no, I did like that. 712 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: I just I was like, Oh, look she did this 713 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,000 Speaker 1: and this, and then that blanket. I was like, Oh, 714 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:53,840 Speaker 1: I love this blanket. Just has all those essentially emojis 715 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: that's all over her blankets that she designed. I was like, 716 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: that is so cool. And then I thought about the 717 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: fight of it and loves talking about how she has 718 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: a superpower. So you're welcome for telling everyone your superpower. 719 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: It's a good power. It's probably my most useless one, 720 00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:20,760 Speaker 1: but also the safest one. I'm glad. Wait, okay, Finn 721 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: think I killed the sun killed that conversation? Real good. Um, Well, 722 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: when it comes to to Care, uh and these icons 723 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: she's going to have, like her legacy is a lasting legacy, 724 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 1: it is a lasting legacy, And I guess yeah, as 725 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: I said, I think it's important to highlight. You know, 726 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: what she did was important. You know, I couldn't tell 727 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: you whether or not personal computing would be the same 728 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: if not for Care. But I know that she had 729 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: an impact, and I think it's important to recognize. And 730 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: I also just think it's important to again underscore that 731 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: she did all of this as a non technical person. 732 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 1: She told the smith Sony in a better time at Apple, 733 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: I loved working on that project. I always felt so 734 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 1: lucky for the opportunity to be a non technical person 735 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,839 Speaker 1: in a software group. I was all by being able 736 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: to collaborate with such creative, capable and dedicative engineers. And 737 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: I yeah, I think it's really awesome that she was 738 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: holding it down on this group of engineers as a 739 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: non technical woman, doing her thing and really building out 740 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,279 Speaker 1: a lasting, enduring legacy in a field where things don't 741 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: often last and don't often endure in this way. So 742 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: I think it's really important to recognize her work. I 743 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,799 Speaker 1: do too, And I think, you know, even looking back 744 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,759 Speaker 1: at the time when she was doing this and being 745 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,279 Speaker 1: a woman in this non technical space and I don't know, 746 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 1: creating these things that have lasted, it's just very very 747 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: inspiring and I'm glad. I'm glad that you brought this 748 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 1: story to our attention. Bridget Thank you for giving me 749 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: the space to nerd out on this honestly, it truly 750 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: is because I saw that badass picture of her on 751 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: Old School Cool and Reddit. So whoever put that on Reddit, 752 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: thank you listeners. Please if you have not seen that picture, 753 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: look it up. She is amazing. Yes, yes, it's so cool. 754 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:16,319 Speaker 1: Just I had goals, that would be one of them. Yeah, yes, 755 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 1: you can achieve this, Samantha. Now I don't think so. 756 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: I would fall out, Like, there's so many levels are 757 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,919 Speaker 1: cool that I couldn't head and one of them would 758 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: be actually sitting like that. Yeah, I'm worried for her back. 759 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: Help She's like, really lean back? Well, thanks as always 760 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: for being here, Bridget. Where can the listeners find you? Well, 761 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,799 Speaker 1: if you want more nerd ing out on all things 762 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: tech and the Internet and things of that nature, you 763 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,760 Speaker 1: can definitely check out my podcast on I Heart Radio 764 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: called there Are No Girls on the Internet. We would 765 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 1: love to have you there, and you can follow me 766 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 1: on social media. I'm at Bridget Marie on Twitter and 767 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,320 Speaker 1: at Bridget Marie in DC on Instagram. Yes, so go 768 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,680 Speaker 1: out that podcast and followed Bridget if you don't already, listeners, 769 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 1: and we can't wait to have you again, Bridget. Oh, 770 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 1: I can't wait. I cannot wait to sex in the city. 771 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: I bet, and just like that, and just like that, 772 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,399 Speaker 1: and you don't get that job because you don't want 773 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,800 Speaker 1: I don't want to be left out of the conversation. 774 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: And I couldn't help, but wonder, I couldn't help, but wonder. Alright, 775 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,400 Speaker 1: Alright to watch it. I'm just a little nervous, but 776 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 1: I'm down to watch it. I guess, yes, it will be. 777 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,760 Speaker 1: It will be. And if you'd like to contact us listeners, 778 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: you can or emails Stuff du mom Stuff at I 779 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,840 Speaker 1: Hurt meia dot com. You can find us on Instagram 780 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,520 Speaker 1: at stuff I Never Told You or on Twitter at 781 00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 1: mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina. 782 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,400 Speaker 1: Thank you Christina, and thanks to you for listening Stuff 783 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 1: One Ever Told You. Protection of I Heart Radio. For 784 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,399 Speaker 1: more podcast from my Heart Radio, I Heart Radio app, 785 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,439 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite show. 786 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: You the mod