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Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on.

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Speaker 1: Next year is going to be an ugly election year

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Speaker 1: in which you can expect very little to get done.

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Speaker 1: To death to want to become a Fernitas political tool,

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Speaker 1: which doesn't help be the party. Bloomberg Sound On Politics,

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Speaker 1: Policy and Perspective from DC's Top Names for confident at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day that the Senate is going

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Speaker 1: to put American families first. Thirty million Americans are expecting

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Speaker 1: and waiting for us to move the ball forward and

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Speaker 1: get stuff done. And when that doesn't happen, in his frustration,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Thursday afternoon to another sound on. I am Emily

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Speaker 1: Wilkins with Bloomberg Government. I am co hosting with my

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Speaker 1: colleague Jack Fitzpatrick filling in for Joe Matthew Today. Well,

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Speaker 1: we have a really great show coming up. We are

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Speaker 1: going to be speaking with New Jersey Congressman Josh Heimer

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Speaker 1: talking a little bit about that state and local tax

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Speaker 1: deduction that's holding up the President Joe Biden's social welfare

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Speaker 1: and tax plan. Right now, Jack, We've got had a

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Speaker 1: really busy day in Congress. We are headed towards the

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Speaker 1: Christmas break, but there's still a little bit that is

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Speaker 1: left to do. I know we've got the debt limit, Jack,

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Speaker 1: what you've been covering today, but we also have the

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Speaker 1: social welfare and tax plan that the House has passed

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Speaker 1: and is now in the Senate. And to talk with

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Speaker 1: us a little more about that, we have a Congressman

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Speaker 1: Josh Gottenheimer, a Democrat from New Jersey, who has been

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Speaker 1: particularly focused on one aspect of the bill that really

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Speaker 1: impacts his constituents. A Congressman, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: taking the time to join us today. Thanks for having me. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm just here. Well, I wanted to start off just

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Speaker 1: by talking about that state and local tax deduction action

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Speaker 1: is obviously now in the Senate, where senators are debating

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Speaker 1: allowing taxpayer to take the full deduction if their income

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Speaker 1: is below a certain level. Congressman, that's obviously different from

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Speaker 1: the House's proposal. Do you support the direction the Senate

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Speaker 1: is taking? Well, really is, you might imagine. I have

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Speaker 1: to see the details of what's being proposed. Ultimately, they're

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Speaker 1: still going back and forth and the impact it would

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Speaker 1: happen in families in my district. And that's what attend

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Speaker 1: to they able to decide how I how assess Let

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna vote for it and not vote for it.

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Speaker 1: And but I'll tell you this what we did in

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Speaker 1: the House, UM by massively increasing the cap and so

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Speaker 1: we can give actually a real tax cut to families

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Speaker 1: in my district where in Burton County, New Jersey, which

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Speaker 1: I represent one of the counties, and the median property

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Speaker 1: acts is fifteen thousand dollars um. And in the New

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Speaker 1: Jersey a nurse and a journeyman electrician will believe it

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Speaker 1: or not make enough money that when we reinstate solved, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they will get a thirty hour tax cut. So you

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Speaker 1: know what depends where you live, like like and everything

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Speaker 1: in life depends where you live and the impact it

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Speaker 1: has like your family where I live. Uh, salt is

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Speaker 1: critical to giving people a real tax relief so they

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Speaker 1: have more money in their pockets. Who afford everything, Congressman,

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Speaker 1: So the latest we've heard from the Senate side on

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Speaker 1: this is that Senator Sanders does not want this deduction

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Speaker 1: to end up benefiting the top one percent of earners,

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Speaker 1: which comes out to I believe about five hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars a year and above per family. Even if it's

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Speaker 1: that's just a rough ballpark figure. What do you think

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Speaker 1: about that kind of cap on the salt deductions? And

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Speaker 1: I I don't belief you in Vermont, and I understand,

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Speaker 1: And Bernie's from Center Sentators is from Vermont, right, the

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Speaker 1: medium property taxes and the median income is half what

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Speaker 1: it is where I live. And we're losing a lot

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Speaker 1: of people leave in New Jersey because they can't afford it,

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Speaker 1: you know, so I get it. In Vermont. Bernie's gonna

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Speaker 1: have a different view of things, as I said, you know,

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Speaker 1: uh if h if nurse and a journey and electrician

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Speaker 1: in New Jersey or making the two hundwo dollars as

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Speaker 1: a couple, that's a very different situation, and it might

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Speaker 1: be for Bernie. So he has, uh has a different

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Speaker 1: view on these things. But also like I believe, what

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Speaker 1: we need to do is help the middle class here

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Speaker 1: and help middle class families. And where I live, this

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Speaker 1: is about helping middle class families. And so it was,

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Speaker 1: and Bernie is, uh, you know, he's a socialist, He's

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Speaker 1: got it. He comes from any things from different perspective.

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Speaker 1: He's you know, he's and as I can't really speak

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Speaker 1: to the Socialist Party agenda, but I know what what

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Speaker 1: what we fought for here in the House, and when

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Speaker 1: we passed in the House as Democrats, and that raised

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Speaker 1: the sault cap the eighty thousand dollars from ten thousand dollars,

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Speaker 1: so we can give actually middle class families relief and

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Speaker 1: make sure that we don't keep losing people um who

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Speaker 1: are so important to ensuring that we've got the best

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Speaker 1: teachers and the best schools, and that we've got the

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Speaker 1: best firefighters and law enforcement and that where you know,

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Speaker 1: we've decided a state in New Jersey to invest in people,

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Speaker 1: uh and and take care of them and make sure

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Speaker 1: if you're hard pressed, there's a program for you. In Mississippi,

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Speaker 1: the media proper taxes five fifty dollars, they don't have

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Speaker 1: They don't stand by folks the way we do. And

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Speaker 1: you know, and I can't speak for Bernie and her

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Speaker 1: mop but I'll tell you here in Jersey what we

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Speaker 1: do is we take care of people, and we need

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Speaker 1: people to be able to afford things. You know, Congressman,

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Speaker 1: obviously that provision is a part of the larger social

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Speaker 1: welfare and tax bill from President Biden. The House has

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Speaker 1: cleared it. It is now in the bill. Can say

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Speaker 1: that you mean the build that you mean the recompilation,

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Speaker 1: build better? You know what you know? I Congressant. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate your commitment to making sure that you're selling that

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Speaker 1: bill at every possible turn, But I just don't know

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about. That that is, yes, that is

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Speaker 1: indeed the Build Back Better bill. I I try, I

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Speaker 1: try and spell out a little bit of what's in it,

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Speaker 1: but it's now there's childcare, there's help for childcare, there's

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Speaker 1: help pre k there's help fight climate change, and they're

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Speaker 1: salved sting, given tax cuts and lower prescription drugs. But

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Speaker 1: right now, oh, there's technically nothing because this is not

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Speaker 1: yet a law. It's stuck in the Senate. Uh. Senator

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Speaker 1: Chuck Schumers said that he wants us to pass by Christmas.

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Speaker 1: You mean when you say it's stuck, I mean we

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Speaker 1: sent it over three weeks ago and it's being debated.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but it hasn't moved yet, and it's time

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Speaker 1: is running out this year. I mean, if the legislation

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Speaker 1: doesn't pass the Senate, in the House and get to

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Speaker 1: Biden's desk in is that going to make this bill

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Speaker 1: harder or potentially completely impossible to pass later? No? No,

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Speaker 1: because we're still in the same Congress starting next year,

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Speaker 1: so the sessions go by two years, and so um

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Speaker 1: election years are hard to do. No, I'm not at all, Listen,

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Speaker 1: I'm not worried about if we do the right thing

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Speaker 1: fighting for people and getting what they need, and whether

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Speaker 1: we do it a week later. We literally just passed

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Speaker 1: it out of the House a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 1: The Senate is debating it. As you know. We did

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Speaker 1: the debt ceiling, which we're going to get done now,

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Speaker 1: and I think we all came together or we got

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Speaker 1: the bipartisans Stricture Bill done, which was Democrats and Republicans

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Speaker 1: coming together to fight for getting the Gateway tunnel built

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Speaker 1: in New Jersey and fixing our rows and our bridges

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Speaker 1: and our drinking water for our kids. So I mean

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Speaker 1: the action has been you probably have followed. We've done

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Speaker 1: a ton in the last month and these are including this,

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Speaker 1: But it takes time. You gotta let the Senate debate

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Speaker 1: the issues, so they haven't. Now they're going to debated

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Speaker 1: as soon as it's down the depth feeling they're gonna

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Speaker 1: bait this and and we'll get it done. I'm not

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Speaker 1: at all worried about um worried about that. When I

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Speaker 1: am worried about, though, is is making sure we fight

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Speaker 1: for the things that are important for the people I represent,

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Speaker 1: including reinstating the STABAB withaxtroduction and getting tax cuts for

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Speaker 1: families and making life more affordable for them. So Congressman,

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Speaker 1: I want to make sure we touch on redistricting. I

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Speaker 1: actually grew up just outside of your district. I'm from Sparta,

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Speaker 1: New Jersey. That doesn't quite count as your district, but

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Speaker 1: it is. It's very nice. We had one restaurant. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you've ever been to Crows, but they

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Speaker 1: had I don't know, an Okay burger. Um, what's going

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Speaker 1: to happen to your lot? Better than okay? Hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: from there, and I don't know of a is better

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Speaker 1: than I'll sell Crows on this show all the time

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Speaker 1: if you're in the area to go to Crows. Um.

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Speaker 1: I was looking at a map proposed, not proposed, but

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Speaker 1: it's sort of an idea by Dave Wasserman on maybe

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Speaker 1: some challenges for Democrats because the western area of North

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Speaker 1: Jersey is a little more conservative. Uh, And I guess

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Speaker 1: the idea is it's it's possible that some Democrat from

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Speaker 1: North Jersey, Uh, kind of gets thrown to the wolves.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it would be you or if

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Speaker 1: it would be Congressman Malanowski, but I'm just want to

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Speaker 1: get your take on do you expect there to end

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Speaker 1: up being a Republican leaning district somewhere in North Jersey?

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Speaker 1: And does that affect you? Well? You know, Frankly, what

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Speaker 1: I want to focus on right now is making sure

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Speaker 1: I do a good job at home, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the stuff is with us. You know, there's a

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Speaker 1: redistricting commission that addresses these issues and had all these issues,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure they'll they'll work it out. You know.

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Speaker 1: I'm optimistic in the end that it'll you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: hopeful it'll come out well for all of us, um

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Speaker 1: and so we can keep fighting for the people we represent.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, well know, I think soon how that

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Speaker 1: turns out, So I'll get back to you on how

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Speaker 1: it turns output. There's lots of different potential maps running around, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, but what matters is actually what the Commission

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Speaker 1: puts together and agrees to And I'm very proud. You know,

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Speaker 1: I get to represent southas County in Waren County to

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Speaker 1: say County, Burton County, New Jersey, And I'm very lucky.

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Speaker 1: And I don't care at the end of the day.

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Speaker 1: As long as I represented families in Jersey, I get

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Speaker 1: to fight for them and help them, I'll be happy. Well, Congressman,

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Speaker 1: obviously you held your seat and represented your district for

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Speaker 1: a number of years now, but I noticed this past

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Speaker 1: November on your district your constituents voted for the Republican

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Speaker 1: challenger for governor. Is your district getting harder for a

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Speaker 1: Democrat to win in? And I'm I'm I'm I've one

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Speaker 1: of three times, and I'm proud of it. I think

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Speaker 1: if you do a good job and fight for work

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Speaker 1: for everybody, that's what it matters. As you might know,

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Speaker 1: I coach of this group called the Problem Solvers Caucus.

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Speaker 1: It's twenty nine Democrats and twy nine Republicans. We get

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Speaker 1: together every week with one purpose, which is to get

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Speaker 1: things done for folks. We helped get the infrastructure built

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Speaker 1: on the bipartisansrans are built on with Democrats and Republicans.

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Speaker 1: And and last year we've got the COVID Package, which

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Speaker 1: President Trump signed at the end of the year, to

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Speaker 1: another round of PPP small business loans for folks, which

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Speaker 1: was critically important, and help with a vaccine. So you know,

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Speaker 1: to me, what matters if you do a good job

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Speaker 1: and you work with your mayors and your councils and

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Speaker 1: your counties and fight form and fighting claw back dollars

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Speaker 1: to the state, which the strict what I've done, um

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Speaker 1: uh to try to make life more affordable. That and

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Speaker 1: stand by your cops and your firefighters. You know this

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Speaker 1: from being from Jersey, so you get this importance and

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Speaker 1: making sure we we take care of folks and our veterans.

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Speaker 1: That's what people will grade you on. That's what people

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Speaker 1: grade you on, right And and to be uh, it's

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Speaker 1: less about party and much more about are you fighting

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Speaker 1: other country? And then you mentioned the Problem Solvers Caucus,

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Speaker 1: which actually played a role in getting together that bipartisan

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Speaker 1: infrastructure bill. Congressman, I'm curious what's the next big policy

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Speaker 1: for the problem solvers. We're very I'm glad you asked

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Speaker 1: about that, and you know we're we're very focused on

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Speaker 1: chips and uh, and and particularly competitiveness with China and

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Speaker 1: making sure that we have more domestic manufacturing here. We

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Speaker 1: saw during COVID UH the impact it's had in our

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Speaker 1: supply chain and how much it would help. Whether you're

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Speaker 1: talking about ventilators or maths or pharmaceuticals that are critical

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Speaker 1: that we have. We need to have more domestic production.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we're so reliant on ships from out

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Speaker 1: of the country that run everything from there's nearly a

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Speaker 1: thousand and f one fifty of course. Uh. We need

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Speaker 1: them for our ventilators, we need them for for pretty

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Speaker 1: much everything we operate these days, so farm equipment. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm I think it's there's good bipartisan legislation

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Speaker 1: to have to encourage and sentimus more domestic manufacturing of

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Speaker 1: chips and microchips, and so you know, that's a big

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Speaker 1: area where we're really focid. Well, Congressman Joshkotteimer, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us. We'll be keeping a close

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Speaker 1: on it. Coming up, we assemble the panel as to

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Speaker 1: discussed the agenda Congress has and the two mid terms.

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Speaker 1: Hi'm Emily Wilkins. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: you sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick from Bloomberg Government, co hosting today with

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Speaker 1: my colleague Emily Wilkins. We are in for Joe today

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Speaker 1: Big Show. We just had Congressman Josh Gottheimer, Democrat from

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Speaker 1: New Jersey on. We are now joined by our panelists

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Speaker 1: for the day, Genie she Inzano, Bloomberg Politics contributor, and

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Speaker 1: Amy Tarkanian, Republican strategist who is a former Nevada State

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Speaker 1: Republican chairwoman. Thank you both for joining us. Let's follow

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Speaker 1: up on the Gottheimer interview. Emily took the heat the

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Speaker 1: boy the Democrats really want us to say, it's the

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Speaker 1: Build Back Better Act. We can't call it a social

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Speaker 1: tax and spending bill, even though I think that's what

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Speaker 1: it is. Um. What what's the state of branding for

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Speaker 1: this for this bill, the b B B bill or

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Speaker 1: whatever we are required to call it. Jeanie, I loved

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Speaker 1: that portion, and thank you to Emily for standing strong

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Speaker 1: on that. Um. You know, I I think my read

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Speaker 1: of this is that Democrats have paying been paying particular

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Speaker 1: attention to what people have been saying, which is that

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Speaker 1: they had not been doing a very good job of

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Speaker 1: telling us what is in the bill, about talking about

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Speaker 1: the bill and what it's gonna mean for people. And

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Speaker 1: I think you see a really concerted effort, and Jack,

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Speaker 1: you and Emily no better than I do. I kept

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Speaker 1: thinking when Emily was having this back and forth, in fact,

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Speaker 1: did they have somebody come in with some focus group

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Speaker 1: and polling data and give them all a you know,

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Speaker 1: a shout out as to what they need to be doing,

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Speaker 1: because they seem to be on this page that we

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Speaker 1: heard from Gottheimer in this conversation. I mean, look, you say,

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Speaker 1: build back better. They complain that the media doesn't report

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Speaker 1: what's in the bill. You give it a name that

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Speaker 1: says what's in the bill, and then they complain you're

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Speaker 1: not using them back better. You can't win, Emily, but

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Speaker 1: I get it. You know, Democrats absolutely know that they

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Speaker 1: have to sell this. Josh Gottenheimer fully understands that I can't.

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Speaker 1: I can't blame him in the slightest. I mean, Amy,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to come to you a little bit on

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Speaker 1: this as well. I mean, Congressman Gotteneimer really played down

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Speaker 1: any sort of concerns UH that this uh spending package

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Speaker 1: wouldn't get done this year. And we've seen you know,

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Speaker 1: similar comments from the White House. But I'm wondering if

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Speaker 1: you can sort of take us take us seriality here,

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Speaker 1: how much difficult does it get to pass legislation in

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Speaker 1: an election year? Well, it's extremely difficult, especially during an

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Speaker 1: election year. I mean, I listened to this segment and

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Speaker 1: you were fought on with your assessment when you were

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Speaker 1: asking him, you know, is this going to be it possible?

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Speaker 1: Especially during an election year? And right, he did do

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Speaker 1: a good job of downplaying it, But I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: I think it's going to be extremely tough, and due

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Speaker 1: to the fact that the messaging has been so terrible

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Speaker 1: and so off. And I fully think that the majority

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Speaker 1: of the moves that this administration makes is due to polling.

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Speaker 1: So there there's no doubt in my mind that they

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Speaker 1: have not been looking at every single poll because there's

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Speaker 1: there are not at least I haven't seen there are.

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Speaker 1: There are no polls that show um that this is

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Speaker 1: favorable overall. Uh And a majority of the people don't

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Speaker 1: understand within it. And then when you're starting to hear

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Speaker 1: from say left leaning media outlets, you know, like the

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Speaker 1: Hill or The Atlantic, and they're starting to question on

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Speaker 1: the popularity or lack thereof on the bill. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're in trouble because now you I'm looking at an

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Speaker 1: article where actually the Hill talks about the spending cuts

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Speaker 1: that are in the bill back better Bill for hospitals,

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Speaker 1: and and these are actually happening in undeserved communities. And

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Speaker 1: so that's going to cause a problem when more people

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Speaker 1: start to find out what's actually in it. And I

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Speaker 1: found it interesting too that when you were speaking to

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Speaker 1: the Congressman that he wasn't able to rattle off really

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Speaker 1: what was what was in it, and it kind of

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Speaker 1: sounded like he still needed to do some more reading.

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Speaker 1: And that's concerning because I think the majority of the

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Speaker 1: House are probably in the same boat. Well, I'll give

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Speaker 1: him some credit for rattling off the key parts, although

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a big bill, so it's it can

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Speaker 1: be challenging to brand even if it is being made

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Speaker 1: clear what's in it. Now. We also talked a little

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Speaker 1: bit about redistricting, and Amy, I really wanted to ask you.

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Speaker 1: You know, we we touched on New Jersey, but your

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Speaker 1: home state is interesting because the last coverage I've seen

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Speaker 1: from the Nevada Independent Is. It looks like there's an

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Speaker 1: attempt to kind of try to solidify a three one

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Speaker 1: advantage for Democrats in the congressional delegation for Nevada, But

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Speaker 1: I'm curious if that can overcome what could be sort

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Speaker 1: of a wave year for Republicans. How do you think

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Speaker 1: things are going to play out in Nevada given that

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Speaker 1: Democrats have an advantage in the redistricting process. But obviously

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Speaker 1: a lot of polls are looking good for Republicans. They

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Speaker 1: are I still think we're going to have a very

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Speaker 1: tough time just because our state party apparatus is it's

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Speaker 1: chaotic and it's not I don't think functioning the way

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Speaker 1: that it should. But to be fair, I think our

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Speaker 1: Democrats on the other side are also a hot mess,

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Speaker 1: and they recently had a takeover of the Democratic Socialists

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Speaker 1: and so you've got their internal battles as well that

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Speaker 1: will actually benefit the Republicans. But I do feel that

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Speaker 1: a number of the Republican candidates are going to have

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Speaker 1: to do this on their own um without having to

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Speaker 1: lean so heavy upon the actual local state party um.

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Speaker 1: They will get help from from the national Party, which

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Speaker 1: is great, but you know, even though this redistrict seeing

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Speaker 1: benefits the Democrats for the most part, I find it

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Speaker 1: interesting that they really cut into congressional district one, which

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Speaker 1: has been a congressional district. UM actually have Dina Titus

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Speaker 1: who has been in that seat, and she's actually done

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Speaker 1: an extremely good job. Um. I don't agree with her

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Speaker 1: policy wise, but she has been a warrior and a

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Speaker 1: champion for the left, and she works extremely hard. And

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Speaker 1: they they did a number on her. And so now

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Speaker 1: you're going to see a couple of Republicans jumping on

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Speaker 1: over to the race because they're smelling blood. Well, a

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Speaker 1: little bit of news we have. We reported earlier today

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Speaker 1: that the Senate had taken that procedural vote to move

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Speaker 1: forward on the debt limit. Remember they're sort of getting

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Speaker 1: wonky here for a minute. They're doing it in two parts.

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Speaker 1: One the first part is to use an expedited process

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Speaker 1: that will allow only Democrats to raise the debt limit,

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Speaker 1: and that second part is a debt limit itself. We

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Speaker 1: got some news on that first part, the process part.

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Speaker 1: It has been announced that there will be a vote tonight.

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Speaker 1: Remember this is one I believe, Jack, correct me if

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Speaker 1: I'm wrong. But they only need Democrats to vote for this.

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Speaker 1: So the tough votes on the way this is finalizing

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Speaker 1: that fast track process. This is going to mean that

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Speaker 1: some of the pain Republicans could have caused Democrats bringing

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Speaker 1: up really toxic amendments for Democrats lengthen out the process.

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Speaker 1: None of that's going to happen. They're going to have

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Speaker 1: a ten hours of debate and then be able to

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Speaker 1: actually take a vote on raising the debt limit. And Jack,

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Speaker 1: I know you were in the Senate today watching all

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Speaker 1: of this unfold. Yes, So if it wasn't complicated and

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Speaker 1: convoluted enough, the tough vote was a procedural vote on

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Speaker 1: a procedural bill. They needed sixty votes to end debate

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Speaker 1: on a bill to then create a pathway for another

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Speaker 1: bill to increase the debt limit. Basically, they got sixty

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Speaker 1: votes when they needed it. There will be a few

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Speaker 1: votes remaining for them to actually update increase the debt limit. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And those votes can be done on a partisan basis

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Speaker 1: so that Republicans can say, hey, that that to vote

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Speaker 1: the Democrats took it has to do with their reconciliation bill.

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Speaker 1: We had nothing to do with it. But there are

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Speaker 1: some conservatives who are frustrated with the fact that they

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Speaker 1: had to effectively this procedural bill is blocking themselves preemptively

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Speaker 1: from filibustering the next bill. And I caught up in

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Speaker 1: the House on the House side with Congressman Chip Roy,

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Speaker 1: who's a Freedom Caucus guy used to work for Ted Cruz,

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Speaker 1: who was pretty frustrated. He's not the only one. And

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Speaker 1: he told me, amid a bunch of loud elevators to

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Speaker 1: excuse the background noise, what he thought of this, Let's

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Speaker 1: play the sound on that. Republicans just said, Oh, we

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Speaker 1: said a lot of saying we shouldn't vote for death

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Speaker 1: sailing injuries. So let's not vote for closure increase, but

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Speaker 1: instead let's give ten votes to change a rule one

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Speaker 1: so that we can employ voting for the deaths. So

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Speaker 1: we had to bleep out the last part. But that's

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Speaker 1: that's his view on it. So I want to ladies

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Speaker 1: and gentlemen, I want to ask our guest, Gordon Gray

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Speaker 1: of the American Action Forum about this and in particular

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Speaker 1: the convoluted nature of this. Gordon, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us. Can you explain to me why Republicans

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Speaker 1: are not voting to end debate but they're voting to

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Speaker 1: end debate on a bill to preemptively block themselves from filibustering.

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Speaker 1: What is the utility of all this? First, thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for having me, and uh, your your question is

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Speaker 1: is well taken, because it could uh certainly looks like

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Speaker 1: something of a pretzel that they've twisted themselves in two.

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Speaker 1: And I think this is a function of an evolving

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Speaker 1: political landscape. I think to resolve this the impast in

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Speaker 1: Congress and to get to the needed outcome, which is

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Speaker 1: raising the debt limit before uh potential or technical default. Um,

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Speaker 1: somebody was going to have to back off their um,

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Speaker 1: their position that they that they articulated earlier in the

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Speaker 1: fall when they were able to get a temporary dead

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Speaker 1: limit increase, and they were each they were all going

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Speaker 1: to have to try to save face, and that this

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Speaker 1: procedural bill has some face saving aspects for both parties

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Speaker 1: in here. And you know, that's that's what you need

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Speaker 1: to get to a compromise in the Senate. And notwithstanding

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Speaker 1: the the silliness of the procedure, um, the outcome is

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Speaker 1: a good one, which is avoiding the self imposed harm

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Speaker 1: of of monkeying around with the dead limit. You know,

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Speaker 1: Gordon We've had this debate on the dead limit so

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Speaker 1: many times, and it feels like it usually tends to

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Speaker 1: play out in a very similar way. I know there's

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Speaker 1: been some discussion in Congress about just getting rid of

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Speaker 1: the dead limit altogether, giving the power to the Treasury

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Speaker 1: Secretary to raise it, or raising it to such a

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Speaker 1: astronomic amount that they're not going to hit it for decades.

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Speaker 1: Is this something you think that Congress should be seriously considering. So,

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00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: the the utility in the debt limit in in history

431
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,439
Speaker 1: has itself evolved. So when it was first created, the

432
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: debt limit wasn't um a limiting feature at all. Rather,

433
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: it was actually designed to allow Congress excuse me, the

434
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 1: Treasury Department to issue debt without asking Congress for permission.

435
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: Before the debt limit, they had to go to Congress

436
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 1: to approve each individual debt auction. Now there's debt auctions

437
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 1: every week, so imagine if we had to if they

438
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 1: had to run to Congress every few days. So originally

439
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 1: it was actually just to let Treasury issue more debt

440
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: than otherwise, and then it became something of a political

441
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:45,160
Speaker 1: poison pill, and it became a catalyzing event to uh,

442
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 1: take on fiscal policy issues. And so in the nineties

443
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: in particular, you saw a lot of uh compromise negotiations

444
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: that a lot of compromises that led to deficit reduction.

445
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 1: Uh and and uh, you know, sort of deficit bargains

446
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: between the two parties. And it's evolved again where we

447
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,919
Speaker 1: don't do that anymore. We don't do fiscal policy on

448
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,199
Speaker 1: that limit bills. Um, we just try to blame the

449
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: other side for the nasty votes. And so I think

450
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 1: at this point it's losing its political salience and so

451
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: all that's left is the potential for economic harm from

452
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 1: a potential default. So I think the utility of it

453
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,640
Speaker 1: is certainly on the decline. Can I ask real quick

454
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,480
Speaker 1: in in thirty or sixty seconds or so on the

455
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: Build Back Better Act. Uh. There was a back and

456
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: forth in Congress with some of the people from Penn

457
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: Wharton who said, you know, this is probably only gonna

458
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: contribute about a quarter point uh next year to inflation.

459
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: What are you what are your thoughts on how what's

460
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: the inflationary effect if this becomes laws it actually significant?

461
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: So I uh, well, I think, um, uh, you know

462
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: the word significant there is is significant. So I think

463
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: the question is from the stand point of deliberate federal policy.

464
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: I don't want to overstate the inflate the potential inflationary effects,

465
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: but directionally they will increase aggregate demand next year and

466
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 1: so in in a context, in an environment where you

467
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: would imagine that, you know, you'd want to pull all

468
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: the policy levers um to minimize rising inflation, though't certainly

469
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: mindful of the employment situation. Um that you would question

470
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: whether or not the bill is currently structured, which is

471
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: really front loaded with definite financing up front, you'd question

472
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: why you would want to do that. Well, Gordon, we

473
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 1: are going to have to leave it there. Thank you

474
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 1: so much to Gordon, and great With American Action Form

475
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: coming up, we're gonna take a look at the fight

476
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: administration's latest informed policy. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to

477
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 1: Bloomberg you sound on with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Welcome.

478
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick with Bloomberg Government, subbing in for Joe.

479
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: Today we're closing it out. I'm I'm hosting solo now.

480
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: Emily Wilkins, my colleague who has been co hosting with

481
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: me yet she's going back and forth from the capital

482
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: to New York. You've heard her on balance of Power.

483
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: She's spending more time on Amtrak than President Biden ever

484
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: even has I am joined now by Jennie she in

485
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: Zano are regular Bloomberg Politics contributor, as well as any

486
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: Tarkanian Republican strategist out of Nevada former Nevada State Republican

487
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: Party chair. Let's start off with the foreign policy news today.

488
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,880
Speaker 1: This is a pretty big foreign policy day for President Biden.

489
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: They started with this democracy summit that rankled China because

490
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,640
Speaker 1: it included Taiwan. But I'm particularly interested in his calls

491
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: today regarding Russia. He made a call with Ukrainian President

492
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,679
Speaker 1: Vladimir Zelinsky and then followed up with some leaders in

493
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 1: the Eastern portion of NATO to discuss his video meeting

494
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 1: earlier this week with Russian President Vladimir Putin. So I'm curious,

495
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 1: especially with echoes of the end of the Janakovich regime

496
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: in mind, and and the Russian incursion at that point

497
00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: into Crimea and the build up of Russian troops near

498
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: the border with Ukraine. I think the key question here

499
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,199
Speaker 1: is how much can the US do preemptively? Is it

500
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: just a threat of of military intervention, which the President

501
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: has made clear he does not want to do unilaterally. Uh, Genie,

502
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you make of this and what we

503
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: should expect from a president to preemptively head off any

504
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 1: negative actions from Russia. What what can he actually do now?

505
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 1: The President, I think is on the right track here.

506
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: You know his as you as you mentioned, he has

507
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: taken the military options largely off the table. That leaves

508
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 1: him with sanctions. And while the administration has declared line

509
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: to specify what those sanctions might be, there has been

510
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: some speculation on that those have proven to be effective

511
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: in the past. They've also focused on something really critical,

512
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: which is this coalition building, something the President talked about

513
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: as a Canada and he has continued to talk about

514
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: and focus on. And you've seen a lot of engagement

515
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: by high level administrative administration of people from the United

516
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 1: States with Russians, with Ukrainians. And the President continued that

517
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: today and the combination of those three factors are things

518
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: that are likely, you know, you never know, you don't

519
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: know how Putin's going to respond, but they are likely

520
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: to be effective. And as many people have been talking

521
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: about in the last few days in recent past, they

522
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: have been when it comes to put in in places

523
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 1: like Georgia and the Ukraine. So I think he is

524
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: on the right track here, and I think the big

525
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: difference from the Trump administration, probably the main difference is

526
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: the coalition building as But now foreign policy I think

527
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 1: is a significant risk politically here. We we've talked so

528
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: much about the state of the economy, the recovery, uh,

529
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: the the reconciliation bill that the Democrats are trying to

530
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: get through, and how that plays into the public's perception

531
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: of the president. But I was looking back at the

532
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: polling averages for the approval rating for President Biden, and

533
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: really it switched and he became much less popular at

534
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: the end of August when the pullout from Afghanistan was

535
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 1: messier than a lot of people expected. Amy how how

536
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: significant a risk is foreign policy, especially with an ion Russia,

537
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: to Biden's standing with the American public, and how much

538
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 1: has that hurt him so far as opposed to the

539
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: economic stuff. I think it was definitely a major turning

540
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 1: point where the majority of folks no longer felt safe

541
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: and no longer felt that he had not just our

542
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: allies back, but our own that and so it was

543
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: a big letdown. Um. And you know, you can mention

544
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: the economic sanctions, which I think are important, and I

545
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: think that's that's a good route to take. What those

546
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: are going to be. I'm not sure, but I think

547
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: that's wise. However, I was a little uh confused on

548
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: why he would even say that militarily he was going

549
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: to take that off the table, whether if he was

550
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: going to or not. I was surprised that he wouldn't

551
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: just keep those cards close to his chest. Um. The

552
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 1: fact that he is now being viewed as such a

553
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: weak commander in chief, and we were now learning too

554
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: that possibly Divide administration plans on advising Ukraine to hand

555
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 1: over territory to Russia. That alone right there tells you

556
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 1: they really don't have the Ukraine in mind. So I

557
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: think the fact that he is being viewed as a

558
00:30:55,960 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: very weak individual is going to be troubling, um for America. Well,

559
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: that's you know, I think that's a key difference, as

560
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: as Genie touched on. Uh. And I'm curious how much

561
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: preemptively the president can do, how much of it is

562
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: coalition building, how much of it it may be a

563
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: bit of saber rattling the news from earlier today on

564
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: the terminal UH is that if the President underscored US

565
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: support for Ukraine and its standoff with Russia during a

566
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 1: call with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky. By the way, White

567
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: House Press Secretary Jen Saki addressed this, let's hear how

568
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: she described the exchange today. It was not meant to

569
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: be an indication of a deal, cut, concessions made, any

570
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: formal format, or anything along those lines. More about the

571
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: commitment to ongoing engagement. So that's the latest on today's

572
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: foreign policy news from the president, A pretty big one.

573
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: And you know we mentioned earlier the debt limit vote

574
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: that was supposed to happen shortly. I understand that is

575
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 1: actually happening now. The Senate is voting right now on

576
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: a bill to essentially fast track a future bill to

577
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: increase the debt limit avoid a federal default on payments. UH.

578
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 1: And again this is the easier vote than they had

579
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: earlier today. They needed sixty votes earlier today they got

580
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: sixty four as Republican leadership and some more moderate members

581
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: joined Democrats in allowing this expedited path forward on the

582
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: debt limit. This needs a simple majority, and then after that, uh,

583
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: this process bill can go to the President, he can

584
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: sign it, and then they can fast track an actual

585
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: debt limit increase through the Senate. Amy, I'm curious what

586
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: you make of the Republican strategy on this. We we

587
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: played sound from Congressman Chip Roy, who is pretty frustrated

588
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: with the convoluted nature of this, and in particular, I'm

589
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: curious Republicans are effectively voting or they just did vote

590
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: fourteen of them to preemptively block themselves from filibustering an

591
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: upcoming debt limit vote. Does this in your mind set

592
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: any kind of precedent? Is this going to lead to

593
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 1: rule changes? That this is kind of bending the rules?

594
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: What does that mean going forward? Right? Well, I wouldn't

595
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: use the same words as hip Roy, but I do

596
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: agree with him was exactly, Um, I don't think that

597
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: this was wise. I mean, this, this happens every time.

598
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter who is in charge, right, I mean

599
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: this seems to the blame game goes on no matter

600
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: who is in charge. Um, it's going to just continue

601
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 1: to harm. Be a copany we just do the same

602
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: thing over and over. But it was it was confusing

603
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: to me that those fourteen Republicans along with the majority leader,

604
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: would give in so easily without even a real discussion. UM.

605
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: I do think that it's such a dangerous precedent because

606
00:33:56,120 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: once you go down a certain path, um, it's going

607
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: to you know, just like with with any other um

608
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: uh social bill that you put into place, and you say, oh,

609
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: it's just going to last for this one time. No,

610
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's always going to be extended and it's

611
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: never going to be retracted fully. And that's what I

612
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: think we just witnessed. Well you I think you can

613
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: it can be taken essentially as a given that you're

614
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 1: correct on the next step is another extension after this.

615
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: This is to increase the debt limit, or rather, this

616
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: forthcoming bill will be to increase the debt limit. And

617
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 1: lawmakers Democrats in both chambers have told me they're aiming

618
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 1: for sometimes shortly past the mid term. Doing the math myself,

619
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 1: they haven't released this bill, it looks like they'll need

620
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: to add a couple of trillion dollars to the debt

621
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: limit to get it past the mid terms, Genie, can

622
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: you spell out why that's so significant? This this has

623
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: it been so politicized this time that maybe it will

624
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: be easier to raise or suspend it again in December

625
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: or January twenty twenty three. What would your expectations be there.

626
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: It's not going to be any easier to do it,

627
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,200
Speaker 1: but it's gonna be timed a lot better if it

628
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: comes after the election. For the Democrats, the last thing

629
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: they want to be doing next year before the election

630
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: is going through this you know, crazy process, as as

631
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: we've all been watching it again. So they want to

632
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: put it off as long as they can until after

633
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: the election. And they don't want what Mitch McConnell is

634
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: going to try to do, even though he's got hit

635
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: hard by this, and Amy was just talking about some

636
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 1: Republican pushback against what happened here, but they really don't

637
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: want to be accused of having recklessly spent and added

638
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: to the deficit. So they want to get as far

639
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: away from this talk about raising the debt ceiling as possible.

640
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: Because what McConnell feels like he's been able to do

641
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 1: is he even though they didn't do one on reconciliation,

642
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 1: he got them to raise it on their own, so

643
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,760
Speaker 1: he says, and he got them to get a number

644
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: out there that he's going to try to use over

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Speaker 1: this election season to hit them back, right, and so Amy,

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Speaker 1: let's let's play this out again. We don't have the

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Speaker 1: bill in front of us, but we have CBO projections

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Speaker 1: of what the debt is gonna be. Um, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be a major point again for Republicans on the campaign

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Speaker 1: trail on the debt and deficit going into Thank you

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Speaker 1: again to Amy Tarkanian out of Nevada. Republican strategist Jennie

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Speaker 1: she and Zano are are regular Bloomberg Politics contributor and

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Speaker 1: again Congressman Josh Gottheimer, Democrat from New Jersey, and Gordon

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Speaker 1: Gray from the American Action Forum. A lot of big

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Speaker 1: news today on the debt, limit, foreign policy, all of it. Again.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jack Fitzpatrick. This is Bloomberg