1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from works 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm to 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 1: Blinded Chuck Reporting and I'm fair. And there was a 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 1: very important historical anniversary earlier this year that we just 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: couldn't let go by without commemorating, especially since it's one 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: our listeners are still really intrigued by. And that's the 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: one hundredth anniversary of the sinking of the now legendary 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: passenger liner, the RMS Titanic, on April fourteenth, nineteen twelve, 9 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: after it collided with an iceberg during its maiden voyage 10 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: from the UK to New York City. And it was 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: one of the biggest non wartime maritime disasters ever. More 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: than fift undred people died, and so it really continues 13 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: to haunt people and fascinate researchers who are still examining 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: artifacts and unraveling the stories of the people who traveled 15 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: on this ill fated ship. And so of course there 16 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,040 Speaker 1: was a lot of coverage because of all that fascination, 17 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: even some news which we're going to be discussing in 18 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: a bit and events to commemorate this anniversary, to including 19 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: a memorial cruise aboard the MS Memoral Cruise ship which 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 1: retraced the Titanic's exact route and gathered on the deck 21 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: at eleven forty pm on April fourteenth, which was the 22 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: time the Titanic hit the iceberg a hundred years ago, 23 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: and held a memorial service, and according to the Daily Mail, 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: about fifty of the people who were aboard this memorial 25 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: cruise had a direct family connection to the Titanic, including 26 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: relatives of the ship's doctor and relatives of some of 27 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: the passengers. There was also the presentation of five bronze 28 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: plaques which includes all the names of the dead from 29 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: all the classes aboard the ship, first, second, and third class. 30 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: And it's said to be the first time that all 31 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: of these people are included together and one memorial. That 32 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: point was really striking to me that it took a 33 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: hundred years for that to happen. It's kind of amazing. 34 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: That is surprising, especially since there have been several memorials 35 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: and remembrances, and this is our own sort of memorial 36 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: that we have here today to the Titanic sinking. It's 37 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: another look at a classic episode of Stuffy Miston History 38 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: Class from two thousand eight on the Titanic by Candice 39 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:21,640 Speaker 1: and Jane. So we're gonna check that out first and 40 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: then talk a little bit more about it afterwards. Hello 41 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm editor Candice Gibson, joined 42 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 1: by staff writer Jane McGrath. Jane, I don't think that 43 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: there's anything as big and posh and attention catching in 44 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: the annals of naval history as the Titanic. That was true, 45 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: I don't think many people would not have. I guess 46 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: I should say a marine history rather than naval history. 47 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: So it was a seagoing vessel and it was almost 48 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: like a hotel on the water. And the idea behind 49 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: it was precisely that j Bruce is May and Lord 50 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: Pierie of Harlem and Wolf shipbuilders. They were at dinner 51 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: one night and they were talking about the Cunard lines 52 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: newest liners, the Mauritania and Lusitania, and they said to themselves, 53 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: we can make one or three. Even with their plan, 54 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: they were gonna have a triumvirate of ships that were 55 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: even bigger and better, the Olympic, the Gigantic and the Titanic. 56 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: That's right. And they wanted to make these not only fast, 57 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,239 Speaker 1: so like the Kuniard line, but but luxurious and attractive 58 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: for for the you know, the aristocratic passengers to spend 59 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: you know, a pretty penny to go on exactly the 60 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: idea of being that the more comfortable and luxurious the ship, 61 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: the longer distance people would be willing to travel. And 62 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: so they weren't just selling you know, a couple of 63 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: dollars worth of tickets to people. We're talking about a 64 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: first class ticket than in today's dollars is equivalent to 65 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: about forty three thousand dollars to about eighty thousand dollars, 66 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: which is a ton of money. I mean, I don't 67 00:03:57,920 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 1: even know people who spend that on airfare, you know, 68 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: flying halfway across the world. Maybe you do, if you do, 69 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: write me because I want to travel with you. So 70 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: then what made the Titanic so special? Well, it's interesting 71 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: because it was so incredibly lush, and you know, the 72 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: first class passengers, you know, they were they were used 73 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: to being treated nicely, but not as nicely as on 74 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: this as on this ship, I mean they had such 75 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: Uh they had a squash court, I think, and that 76 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: you mentioned in the article, and uh there's gem there 77 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: were Turkish bad Yeah, and these things are amenities that 78 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 1: people had to pay a little bit extra for. But 79 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: you bring up an important point about the first class 80 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: and what they had access to. And I'm sure that 81 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: all of you know this, but there were three distinct 82 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: classes on board the Titanic, first, second, and steerage, and 83 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 1: so it's really important to sort of go ahead in 84 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 1: your mind as you're picturing the Titanic and that I 85 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: think the nine different deck levels of it, that it 86 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: was very stratified. There were places that first class were 87 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: permitted to go. I mean, they could go anywhere they wanted, 88 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: really because they paid that much, but they weren't going 89 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,840 Speaker 1: to wander down to steerage cabins. But then the third 90 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: class was pretty much restricted to the bottom of about 91 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: second class sort of in the middle. And this was 92 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 1: such a gigantic ship that it required some really special 93 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 1: engineering to make it go. And I'm not gonna lie 94 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: to you. I'm no engineer. I'm not going to profess 95 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: to know everything about horsepower, etcetera, etcetera. But I do 96 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: know that it had two giant engines that were about 97 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: four stories tall, and these two three blade propellers that 98 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: were like twenty three ft across, and so that's big, 99 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: and it enabled the ship to go about twenty four 100 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: knots and that may sound slow to us today, but 101 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: back then it was really fast, that's true. And they 102 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: put it in the running against the Junior Line, which 103 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: was the ships that they wanted to compete against, and 104 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: it was faster than them. But it's sort of broke 105 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: down in the process. But we'll get to that in 106 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: a minute. Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned with the class distinctions, 107 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: you know that might strike our modern sensibilities, is classism, 108 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: which I yeah, it is. But it's interesting to notice 109 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: that UM the third Class were even treated, maybe even 110 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: better than other ships UM of the time because they 111 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: had their own enclosed rooms and that was kind of 112 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: a luxury in itself. It was a lot of them 113 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: didn't even have that where they were coming from. And 114 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: the White Star Line, which was the manufacturer of these 115 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: three ships, knew that many of the Steerage members were 116 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: European immigrants who were going to New York to start 117 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: a new life, and they really sort of approached this 118 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: with a delicate sensibility and they wanted to make this 119 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: a very special and memorable passage for them. And to 120 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: that end, the quarters they had aboard the Titanic were 121 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: so much nicer than anything they would have seen in 122 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 1: any other ship. For instance, there were real mattresses, whereas 123 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: on other ships Steerage would have had straw filled sacks 124 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: to sleep on. Now that's not to say that it 125 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: compared with the private and semi private baths of the 126 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: upper class ducks, but I think that there was sort 127 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: of a continuous design and feeling that pervaded the entirity 128 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: of the ship. But it wasn't just the third class 129 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: it had top of the line, it was everyone. That's true. 130 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: If you look at the on on and everything like 131 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: they had this the whole ship had the sort of 132 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: airy designed to it, with palm trees. Everything was lush, 133 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: and you know, they wanted to promote this this luxurious 134 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: atmosphere so much that if you look at like the decks, 135 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 1: they didn't want to clutter them up too much with 136 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: even safety equipment for instance. They yes, so we have 137 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: these wide open swaths of gleaming with decks. And Thomas Andrews, 138 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: who was the ship's designer, he designed the ship to 139 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: be unsinkable. And it's interesting too. I mean you look 140 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: at both the engineers and the passengers aboard were pretty confident. 141 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: Um just the sheer size of the Titanic. It was 142 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: so gigantic that they felt really comfortable there that you know, 143 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: it was a safe ride, sort of like when you're 144 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: an evolved station wagon. Yeah, nothing, nothing can harm you. 145 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:53,559 Speaker 1: It's just so large. And it wasn't just the size 146 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: of the ship that made people think it was unsinkable. 147 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: The ship's designer, Thomas Andrews, designed watertight doors to draw 148 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: down between each of the sixteen compartments and the bottom 149 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: of the ship, the idea being that if something happened 150 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 1: to the ship, up to three of those compartments could 151 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: flood and the ship wouldn't sink, and even in a stretch, 152 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: four could take on from water and the ship would 153 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: still stay afloats. And they'll make me feel pretty secure, 154 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: I mean, And we go back to the idea that 155 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: they didn't have a lot of safety equipment on the decks, 156 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: and that leads me to my question actually that I 157 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: have for you, is that is it true? A lot 158 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: of people say that if they did have enough lifeboats, 159 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: they would have been able to save a lot more 160 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: people from the sinking. That sadly is fiction. Really Yeah, 161 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: And it's funny because that's a point that people really 162 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: harp on and attached to it, that there were not 163 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: enough life boats to save everyone on the Titanic. I 164 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: think people really latch onto this idea because we would 165 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: like to think that history could be changed if there 166 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: were more precautions. But the fact of the matter is, 167 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: there were so many things that went wrong with the 168 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: Titanic even before I picked up passengers that I think 169 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: it was doomed to sink from the start. That's right, 170 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: even if you look at for a bay is the 171 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: construction of it. I mean people say that, um, the 172 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: constructors used substandard iron even in in the materials to 173 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: you to make to make the ship and uh, and 174 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: even the the technology, the Marconi wireless telegraphy, it was 175 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: seen as maybe two cutting inge because a lot of 176 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: people out there on the boats they didn't know how 177 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: to use it necessarily or to to decipher it right. 178 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: So when the Titanic was thinking and it sent out 179 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: it's distress called people couldn't interpret it. It was like 180 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 1: speaking a totally different language. And there's some information out 181 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: there about there not being enough rivets and the ship 182 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: or the rivets weren't tightened properly, and we know for 183 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: a fact that it only underwent about six or seven 184 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: hours worth of testing, and I think it turned once 185 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: or twice, but it was never even sailed at its 186 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: top speed. And what's more, a lot of the crew 187 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: didn't get on board until an hour or stay before 188 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: the passengers did, and they weren't even told what their 189 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: jobs were until after they got on the ship. So 190 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: how can you be a proper lookout for a ship 191 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: when you haven't been trained in that post? That sure, 192 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: it doesn't leave a lot of time for training. And 193 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: also if you look at the design of the ship, 194 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: even um I read that the rudder was actually kind 195 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: of an old fashioned design and it was smaller than 196 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: the even the competition's rudders, and so this made it 197 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 1: so the ship itself a little less maneuverable, and they 198 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: couldn't shift out of an emergency situation as fast as 199 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 1: they should have. So when you have something that large, 200 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: it's like if you're you're driving an RV and all 201 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: of a sudden you're you're nearing a stop sign. You 202 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: need to know ahead of time that you need to 203 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: go ahead and start breaking slowly. You can't just slam 204 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 1: on the brakes and expect things do okay. It's not 205 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: like you know, my idioty Honda Civic, where I have 206 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: time to do that. The Titanic was the same way. 207 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 1: If they saw something in the water that they needed 208 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: to avoid um and Iceberg, they had to think about 209 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: it a couple of miles ahead. And the same goes 210 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: for turning. You still need you know, a bigger radius 211 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: to turn something that large. And one of my favorite 212 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: points about how ill prepared the Titanic was for this voyage, 213 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: and it's just max of conspiracy, is that JP Morgan 214 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: was one of the big financial backers, and there's some 215 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: recent evidence lightly that he kept encouraging the shipbuilders to 216 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: use cheaper and cheaper materials because he wanted as much 217 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: bang for his buck as he could get. Scandalous scandalous. Well, 218 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: here's where it gets even juiced here. He was supposed 219 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: to be on the maiden voyage and then just a 220 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: couple of hours beforehand, Summa business came up and he 221 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: didn't ride. It's a little suspicious, I know, I know, 222 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: But all that aside back to the lifeboats in question. 223 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna give you guys some numbers just so 224 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 1: you can help visualize it. And I wanted to clarify 225 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,719 Speaker 1: too that there are so many numbers out there when 226 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 1: it comes to the Titanic, because Parliament conducted an inquiry 227 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: since it sets sail from England, but the US Senate 228 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: also conducted an inquiry. And that may sound kind of funny, 229 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: and it kind of is. One of the senators, Senator 230 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: William Smith, knew the captain of the Titanic, John Smith, 231 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: and he'd sailed with him before and thought, he said, 232 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: to get captain, how could this happened? And so the 233 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: Senate got involved to again kind of marking conspiratorial. So 234 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: did the different investigations come up with different different results? No, 235 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: just about the same thing, but the numbers are a 236 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: little bit different. So we know that there were enough 237 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,040 Speaker 1: lifeboats to hold one thousand, one seventy six passengers, and 238 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 1: that's only if they were filled to capacity. So on 239 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: board again numbers from the U. S Senate, we know 240 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: there were two thousand people and eight crew members. So 241 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: even if you're doing the math that fast, you know 242 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 1: that's not enough if you can't get all those people 243 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 1: into boats, and the reason why they had so few 244 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: lifeboats on board sixteen is that the Board of Trade 245 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: was the governing body that set the rules for ocean 246 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,719 Speaker 1: liners at this time, and the number of requisite lifeboats 247 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: for ships up to ten thousand tons was sixteen. Well, 248 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: the Titanic was forty five thousand tons, but no one 249 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: had bothered to sit down and do the math and say, 250 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: we need this many more lifeboats to combate that of friends. 251 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: So the Board of Trades regulations sort of went up 252 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: to it was sort of an old fashioned maximum. They 253 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: weren't sort of expecting something as big as a Titanic 254 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 1: needing the regulation exactly. And you hit on the point earlier, Jane, 255 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: when you were talking about not wanting to clutter up 256 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: the decks. I think that Titanics builders and designers conveniently 257 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: misinterpreted the guidelines. They could have filled in the number 258 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: they needed, but they didn't because they wanted their decks 259 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: to look shiny and open and clean. But okay, so 260 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: you asked, would everyone have been saved, that there have 261 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: been enough life But it didn't matter now, not really, 262 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: because when I was talking about how inefficient the crew 263 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: was and how ill prepared they were, and how little 264 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: testing this ship had undergone. I think vainly practice lowering 265 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: what two to four lifeboats? Is that right? I think? 266 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 1: I think I remember hearing those that. So they didn't 267 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 1: have an accurate time estimation for how long it would 268 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,400 Speaker 1: take to get that many people ever board. And if 269 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: you you look at the survivors talk about it, you'll 270 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: notice that not even all of the lifeboats, they weren't 271 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: filled to capacity, some of them, and that's pretty scandalous. Um. 272 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: There was one survivor who wrote um that the passengers 273 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: saw that these loath boats would have to take a 274 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: fifty ft drop, and I kind of scared them, and 275 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: they thought, well, I'm gonna stick on the unsinkable Titanic. 276 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: You guys can go ahead. And this one survivor claims 277 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 1: that he asked to be on this this on on 278 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: filled lifeboat, and they said women and children first, see 279 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: you later, and they lowered the boat. And so it's 280 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: a kind of testament to they didn't really know what 281 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: they were doing when they were lowering these boats. No 282 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: one did. And there were two evacuations on either side 283 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: of the ship, and one of the people conducting the 284 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 1: investigation on one side said women and children. First, the 285 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: guy on the other side was letting anyone who could 286 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: get in get in. But when we say anyone, we 287 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: mean first class and then second class. Third class wasn't 288 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: even told that the ship was sinking until well after 289 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: the fact. And it was such a quiet disaster when 290 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: the ship scraped the iceberg. It happened so quickly and 291 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: so quietly that no one really realized and damage had 292 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: been done until Thomas Andrews inspected and said, yeah, it's 293 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: certain it's going to sink. And it's sort of scary 294 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: to think about the panic that must have ensued down 295 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: in the steerage decks because even if people saw water 296 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: filling up their cabins, like we said, they weren't allowed 297 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: just free room over the ship like the other class 298 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: passengers were. Can you imagine them just getting lost in 299 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 1: the bottom as you know, imagine they'd be riots and 300 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: and you know, fights all over the place. It was crazy. 301 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: It was, I mean, it was essentially struggle to survive. 302 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: And later on when White Star Line sent out rescue 303 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: craft to search for the bodies or any survivors, they 304 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: got really confused because they saw so many corpses wearing 305 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: garments of first class passengers, but essentially crew and steerage 306 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: had raided the cabins and put on whatever they could 307 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 1: to stay warm. It's terrible. It sounds like they went 308 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: through a lot of havoc and panic the few moments. Yeah, 309 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: I can't even imagine how scary it was. And the 310 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: recovery efforts for disasters too. I mean, when the news 311 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: broke that the Titanic had sunk, the world was stunned. 312 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: I mean, this was the unsinkable ship, and I think 313 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: it took nearly a week to even compile a list 314 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: of all the survivors and all that deceased. So and 315 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: it sort of captures the imagination even to today. I mean, 316 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: people are obsessed with knowing what actually happened, you know, 317 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: um people they have deferring historical accounts, Who's to blame, 318 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: and it's a pretty intense debate all around the board. 319 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: And people are obsessed with the story of the titan 320 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: The Titanic. Yeah, and that's because there were so many 321 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: passengers on board and everyone had a different story, and 322 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: everyone had a different eye witness account. There are people 323 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: who said that the ship broke in half before you saying. 324 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: There are people who didn't report that. And later on 325 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 1: I think people called it a litigation nightmare because, like 326 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: we said, Parliament and the Senate conducted investigations, but any 327 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: lawsuits that were brought on the White Star line were 328 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,320 Speaker 1: brought on by families the individual passengers for either people 329 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: lost or property lost. And how I mean, how could 330 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 1: you even prove anything with all the different testimonies. That's right? 331 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: And one, uh, one scandal that people disagree on, uh 332 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,400 Speaker 1: is about the chairman and managing director of the Star 333 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: the White Star is that it the Star the White 334 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: Star lying. His name is bruce' is Mays, as you said, 335 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: and he actually jumped on one of these not quite 336 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:20,320 Speaker 1: filled lifeboats, and um, people say, oh, what a coward, 337 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,879 Speaker 1: like he took someone else's space when really like it 338 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: would not have been taken by by another person. At 339 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: least some organizations like the Titanic Crostoricals Society tried to 340 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 1: defend him and say, like he had a wife and 341 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 1: kids and no one else was around, and he just 342 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: took his opportunity to save his life and otherwise he 343 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: just would have been, you know, sunk with the ship. 344 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: And it was sad because after he he survived, and 345 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: after he got to America he was sort of ridiculed 346 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 1: by uh like William Randolph Hurst and his newspapers and 347 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: and England sort of they accepted him, but America he 348 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: got maligned. I'm sure he did. And if you look 349 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,959 Speaker 1: at the other two arguably other important figures on board 350 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 1: from like Thomas the Andrews, the ships just miner and 351 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 1: then the captain of the ship, Captain Smith, they both 352 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: sort of quietly waited on board and went down with 353 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,120 Speaker 1: the ship. And Thomas Andrews in particular. I mean, even 354 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: if you think about James Cameron's Titanic, that really poignant 355 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: scene where he says, I wish I could have builty 356 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 1: a better ship ms Rose, that really is sort of 357 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 1: how it happened. That was where is necessarily, but he 358 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,639 Speaker 1: didn't put on a life vest and he sat in 359 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: one of the first class lounges and just quietly waited. 360 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: And it's just so eerie even today if you go 361 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: and you look at pictures of artifacts that have been 362 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 1: um like photographed underneath the surface of the water, or 363 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: artifacts that have been brought up like one of the 364 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: most haunting things. I thought that, um, there's a traveling 365 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: Titanic exhibit called Titanic Aquatic, and you can see all 366 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: these things that r M. S. Titanic has recovered, that 367 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: particular society and they have sole ownership over the shipwreck. 368 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,679 Speaker 1: And one of them, it's just um. It was a 369 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: China hutch that went down and it was made of 370 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: wood and it had these porcelain of gratten dishes in it. 371 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: And over time the wood from the China cabinet disintegrated, 372 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: but the o Grattan dishes were left perfectly stacked and 373 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: neat Little Rose. And that's how they are right now 374 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: and the display they're stacked and neat Little Rose. And 375 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: it's so creepy. That is fascinating because like the rest 376 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 1: of the Titanic and you just see like even the 377 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: exterior of the ship underwater. It's it's really creepy to 378 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: see because of what what the pressure and the water 379 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: has done to it. Um. But to see something that 380 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: has survived that, that's really weird. It is and I 381 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. Like if you see pictures, 382 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: haven't you see this sort of like weird seaweed things 383 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 1: sort of waving the water off the ship's rail. Archaeologists 384 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: have a word for them. They're called rusticles because essentially 385 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: all these little tiny microbes underwater are just feasting on 386 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: the ship, and they suspect that in another I think, 387 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: like fifty to ninety years time, the ship is just 388 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 1: going to collapse and implode in on itself and it's 389 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: going to be over. So there's a lot of argument 390 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: right now about whether or not we should actually raise 391 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: what's left of the hall. That's really interesting because I mean, 392 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,120 Speaker 1: as someone who's fascinated with the story, I of course 393 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,280 Speaker 1: like I want to be in supportive like bring it up, 394 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,959 Speaker 1: because I don't want to see such an interesting artifact 395 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: of history destroyed just by you know, nature, And I 396 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: think I'm going to take a sham be on the 397 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: other side, really, and not even just to play Devil's advocate. 398 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: I really feel that that's where it belongs. Because even 399 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: in the recovery efforts of of those bodies, not all 400 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 1: of them are brought up, and a lot of the 401 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,959 Speaker 1: steerage and crew members that were recovered, their bodies were 402 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: actually tied to iron rods and thrown beneath the water, 403 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: so they were in essence buried at sea. And so 404 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: I think that you know that's where the ship belongs 405 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: to them. Yeah, that's true. So it's always interesting to 406 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 1: revisit a past topic, especially when it's one that we 407 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: still get requests for all your time I have. I mean, 408 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: I think since the beginning of this year, we've been 409 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: hearing what are you going to do for the hundred 410 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: of the anniversary? You guys should do a Titanic episode, 411 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: and we've all we said, well, we've got one in 412 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: our archives. But there is some new information to this story. 413 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: It's worth an update. Yeah, there is some recent news 414 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: to this, and I feel like we're always bringing that 415 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: up when we do these update podcasts. But we did 416 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: mention the news and the intro to this podcast, and 417 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: so we should deliver on it now. It was very 418 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: conveniently time to the anniversary, and it involves newly released 419 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: photos that were taken in two thousand four during an 420 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: expedition by Titanic reck discoverer Robert Ballard. They were originally 421 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: featured in Ballard's book about the expedition, but they were 422 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: cropped at the time when they were shown there. So 423 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: this was the first time that the uncropped versions of 424 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 1: the photos were released, and they show a coat and 425 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,959 Speaker 1: boots line next to each other on the ocean floor 426 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: at the shipwreck sites actually kind of poignant. Yeah, And 427 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,679 Speaker 1: James Decaldo, who is the director of Maritime Heritage at 428 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:56,679 Speaker 1: the National Oceanic and Atmosphere Administration Noah, told the Daily Mail, quote, 429 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: these are not shoes that fell out neatly from somebody's back, 430 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: right next to each other. And he went on to 431 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: say that the way these items are laid out into 432 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: the coach and the shoes right next to each other 433 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: makes a quote compelling case that it is where quote 434 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: someone has come to rest. Uh So, Yeah, you probably 435 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: saw a lot of headlines about that recently. And Delgado 436 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: was the chief scientists on a expedition that mapped the 437 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: entire wreck site, and he believes that these items do 438 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: point to the probable presence of human remains buried under 439 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: the sediment in that spot, and um so there could 440 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: continue to be new research and this could continue to 441 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: add insight to the stories of the people who were 442 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: lost aboard the wreck. He also said that this find 443 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 1: or this you know, this photo, they really points to 444 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: the need to preserve the wreck site, which has been 445 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: hard to do since it's an international waters although the 446 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,240 Speaker 1: site did come under UNESCO protection this year, so that's 447 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: good news. We also have some other random Titanic news 448 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 1: of a more romantic nature than human remains, if if 449 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: that strikes your fancy a little better. It's also interesting, 450 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,360 Speaker 1: especially for those who are fans of James Cameron's Titanic movie. 451 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: In April, Discovery News published an article about the real 452 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: Titanic love Story, which discusses the life of an Italian 453 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: immigrant named Emilio Portolupi, who might have provided part of 454 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: the inspiration for the character of Jack Dawson and Cameron's movie. 455 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: And incidentally, there is a grave for an actual Jay 456 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: douphin which people have speculated about. I mean, you can imagine. 457 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: But Porta Loupe's story is apparently quite similar to the 458 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: story of Dawson's character in the movie, and particularly in 459 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: the love department. So Porta Loupi, who was said to 460 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: be a well respected Stonemason who had immigrated to America 461 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: in nineteen oh three, was on his way back from 462 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,120 Speaker 1: a visit back home to Italy when he ended up 463 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,719 Speaker 1: totally by chance, on the Titanic. He was originally supposed 464 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 1: to have been on an other ship the Oceanic too. 465 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: How he got on the Titanic is sort of the 466 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: crux of the matter. He was invited aboard the ship 467 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: by the Asters, a famous wealthy American couple. John Astor 468 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: the fourth was a millionaire from one of America's wealthiest families, 469 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: and the couple apparently wanted wanted Porta Loupe to work 470 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: for them, wanted him to use his stonemasonry skills at 471 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 1: their villa in Newport, Rhode Island. Yeah, they were on 472 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: their way back from vacation in Egypt, I guess, and 473 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: they were kind of like, hey, hop on their honeymoon, 474 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: wasn't it. And he traveled first class as the couple's 475 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: guest and was invited to dinner with other first class 476 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: passengers the night the iceberg hit the ship, and he 477 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: went to bed that night and woke up when the 478 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,840 Speaker 1: ship hit the iceberg thinking that they had reached New York. 479 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: So some other details that might kind of fall in 480 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: line with what you know from the movie. But port 481 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: Loupi had Or developed a crush on Astor's young beautiful wife, 482 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: Madeline Talmadge Aster, but no one really knows the full 483 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: extent of their relationship. We know about the crush, though, because, 484 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: unlike the movie character he said to have inspired, poor 485 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: Lupie survived the Titanic sinking and lived to the ripe 486 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 1: old age of seventy three. He died in nineteen seventy four, 487 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 1: and no one really knows for sure how he survived, though, 488 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: because he gave different versions of his story sure did. 489 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: In In one, he put on a life belt and 490 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: jumped fifty feet into the water, where he swam to 491 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: a cake of ice and managed to stay afloat there 492 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: until he was eventually rescued by a lifeboat. And another 493 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: he fell in the water trying to board a lifeboat 494 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: and swam for two hours before he was rescued by 495 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: lifeboat fourteen, which was the boat that Lady Astor was on, 496 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: and I think one of the last lifeboats to get away. 497 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: This is probably unlikely, though a lot of people think 498 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: it's unlikely, just because it seems impossible that he would 499 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: have survived for lotter for two hours. Yeah, I see, 500 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: I see cold water. Uh. Some believe, however, that he 501 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: may have escaped by disguising himself as a woman because 502 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: of the Women and Children Edict, The Women and Children 503 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 1: First Edict that Candison Jane discussed a little bit. He 504 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 1: was first listed as Mrs Porta Loupi when the names 505 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: of the rescued were transmitted initially, So this is I mean, 506 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: maybe maybe see why people think this whatever happened with 507 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: Porta Loupie. Though lady ASTs husband did not survive, but 508 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: she and Porta Lupie never got together after the rack, 509 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 1: I mean that's understandable. I think a pretty dramatic experience. 510 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: She did remarry, and he may have married as well, 511 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: even though he was already married at the time. Yeah, 512 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: he was already married before the Titanic. True. Lots of 513 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: stories like this on fates of survivors um including the Iceberg, 514 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: And I saw an interesting news story this year also 515 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: about what people thought happened to the Iceberg and kind 516 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: of the background behind and whether there are little pieces 517 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,639 Speaker 1: of it left and right, or that it probably didn't 518 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 1: survive past nineteen because the water is around it in 519 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: the Atlantic were too warm. So always plenty of things 520 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: to investigate here about the Titanic sinking, and always new 521 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: things that are coming out about it. As we said, 522 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: I think there's even a Titanic to a new Titanic 523 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: ship that's being built, or at least a project that's 524 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: been conceived of. Yeah, so there might be a better, newer, 525 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: safer version of the Titanic that comes out by two 526 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: thousands sixteen. I think would it be marketed for cruising? 527 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: I think it is going to be a passenger ship. Wow. Yeah, 528 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: well don't quote me on that, but will certainly be 529 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: looking for more stories about that. Yeah. If you have 530 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: any favorite Titanic developments or discoveries that weren't discussed in 531 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: the classic podcast and weren't discussed today, feel free to 532 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: write to us. We're a history podcast at Discovery dot 533 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: com and you can look us up on Facebook and 534 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:56,920 Speaker 1: we're on Twitter at miss in History. And we also 535 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: have a Titanic article, Don't we Do? Written by Canada 536 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: Keena herself, and you can find that by visiting our 537 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: homepage at www. Dot how stuff works dot com mm 538 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:13,280 Speaker 1: HM for more on thiss and thousands of other topics. 539 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 1: Is it how stuff works dot com m