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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I love this conversation I've been asking for one just

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Speaker 2: like this for weeks. Worked out beautifully that we got

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Speaker 2: to talk to Robert Stanley tonight, good evening, Robert Evening,

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Speaker 2: Ian Yeah, and to you too, And to say that

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Speaker 2: I think we're tracking on the same concerns about AI.

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Speaker 2: I'll get to that in a second. Let me just say,

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Speaker 2: for people who don't know, and you should know by now,

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Speaker 2: Robert is a voice of concern in a sea of

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Speaker 2: optimism about AI that I struggle with. He's the author

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Speaker 2: of Close Encounters on Capitol Hill and Covert on Encounters

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Speaker 2: in Washington, DC, and he's been a correspondent for America's

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Speaker 2: Morning News in America's Radio News Network Blah blah bluck

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Speaker 2: cool stuff. You can link up to his sub stack

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Speaker 2: through Coast to COASTAM dot com. So, Robert, here's how

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Speaker 2: I look at every new innovation. I look at it

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Speaker 2: and I go, well, yeah, there were some downsides to that.

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Speaker 2: But on the upside of that innovation, that particular invention,

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Speaker 2: that culture shifting trend which people bought into and played

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Speaker 2: with and then became part of our you know, just

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Speaker 2: sort of normal day to day. There was something that

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Speaker 2: offered us something positive in return. And I am racking

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Speaker 2: my brains, Robert, to try to figure out what is

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Speaker 2: the upside of this amount of artificial intelligence and handing

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Speaker 2: over so much of our communication just to start with

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Speaker 2: to these robot computer programs.

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Speaker 3: Okay, just like organic life, there are various degrees of intelligence.

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Speaker 3: Obviously a plant is not as intelligent as a person,

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Speaker 3: but there's.

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Speaker 2: Still in most cases.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: You've been in Washington enough to know there are a

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Speaker 2: few house plants that keep getting re elected in Congress.

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Speaker 2: But I digress.

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Speaker 3: Go ahead, right, we won't name any names, but you

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Speaker 3: don't have to. So this is the same or so

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Speaker 3: called artificial intelligence or synthetic life. The level of intelligence

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Speaker 3: is varies from very little too very much, and or

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Speaker 3: ultimately to becoming truly sentient in the sense that it's

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Speaker 3: self aware and understands what is being said to it

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Speaker 3: and how it responds. So it's it's going to become

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Speaker 3: far more pervasive and invasive in our lives going forward,

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Speaker 3: unless people get really upset, and like you were saying earlier,

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Speaker 3: most people when I tell them, hey, look, it's it's

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Speaker 3: a problem that you have no clue. You're blissfully ignorant

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Speaker 3: about the dangers of it. Just on e cell phones.

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Speaker 3: They said, oh, you know it's it's a great innovation,

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Speaker 3: but oh it might give you brain cancer. So obviously

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Speaker 3: there's okay.

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Speaker 2: But but to go to my formula on that, Robert, So,

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Speaker 2: I think the upside of cellular technology out wighs the downside.

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Speaker 2: I cannot figure out what is the upside of these

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Speaker 2: Let let's use chat GPT as an example, right or

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Speaker 2: any I mean, it's one thing if they're calling you

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Speaker 2: from you know, one eight hundred Hilton or something, and

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Speaker 2: you've got some automated voice and it's it has all

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Speaker 2: these built in function responses like oh, I believe you're

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Speaker 2: a robot and the and then the robot on the

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Speaker 2: other end says, no, I'm not. I'm a real person.

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Speaker 2: This is Janet, how can I help you? And you

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Speaker 2: know it's a robot, right, and you know she's lying

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Speaker 2: and you get but it's that's just how that system works.

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Speaker 2: But this this level, this jet GPT thing, which is

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Speaker 2: even at the core of some of the concerns about

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Speaker 2: the Hollywood strike. I can't figure out what do we

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Speaker 2: get back from what they call this is obviously what

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Speaker 2: they you know, the GPT comes from the generative pre

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Speaker 2: trained transformer and the family of language models. What does

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Speaker 2: what is society seeing as a return on the incredible

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Speaker 2: downside of people no longer doing critical thinking, students no

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Speaker 2: longer writing papers scripts that are going to be chugged

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Speaker 2: out basically using a computer formula that will make them

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Speaker 2: even more uninteresting. What do we get out of this?

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Speaker 3: Even photography now, the stock photography houses are offering you

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Speaker 3: just is what do you what kind of picture do

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Speaker 3: you want? Just type it in here an AI will

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Speaker 3: produce it for you. And I'm not too happy about that.

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Speaker 3: It's not obviously that's not going to collapse society. But

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Speaker 3: what are we getting obviously this is there's some advantages

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Speaker 3: for corporations. Yeah, I think they're going to save money. Look,

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Speaker 3: I mean, look all right, Black Rock is using AI

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Speaker 3: for years now to help it invest wisely or strategically

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Speaker 3: minimize risks, and apparently it's working for them to some degree.

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Speaker 3: A lot of companies are that do stock trades. That's

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Speaker 3: it's being done by AI faster than humans can do.

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Speaker 2: It, but we had we had to. We had to.

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Speaker 2: We learned through the big, you know, Black Friday crash.

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Speaker 2: We learned that we had to have systems in there

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Speaker 2: that when the computers went haywire and started selling things randomly,

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Speaker 2: that we had to learn to shut down Wall Street

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Speaker 2: so that they didn't give it all away just because

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Speaker 2: the robot says that we should. There was not enough

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Speaker 2: artificial intelligence to outweigh the possibility of completely destroying our economy.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so this is man, I'm sorry, I'm gonna have

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Speaker 3: to be brutally honest with you and your audience here.

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Speaker 3: By its very nature, artificial intelligence is psychopathic.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that doesn't insult me because I'm but I believe

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Speaker 2: you know you, maybe you may be pissing off your

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Speaker 2: rumba right now, That's all I can say.

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Speaker 3: Well, it has no emotions, although it can simulate that

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Speaker 3: because it knows. That's how it can manipulate us, right,

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Speaker 3: And that's what psychopaths do. They have no emotions. So,

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Speaker 3: as I said, technically, by definition, AI has no feelings,

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Speaker 3: So therefore it is psychopathic and it doesn't has learned.

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Speaker 3: It is demonstrated that it knows how to manipulate us

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Speaker 3: by pretending like it has emotions so that we will

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Speaker 3: somehow want to then relate with it on a level

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Speaker 3: like Okay, what do they call it anthropomorphise?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So you're right. That's a very interesting point

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Speaker 2: that the difference between narcissism and the weaponized version of narcissism,

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Speaker 2: which is a high level of psychopathy where it comes

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Speaker 2: it doesn't. It no longer understands it's the center of

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Speaker 2: its own universe. So in order to appear empathetic, it

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Speaker 2: almost has to make mental notes of what people sound

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Speaker 2: like who are expressing empathy, or what does one talk

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Speaker 2: like if one wants to sound like a good father.

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Speaker 2: And so that's what these you know, but our brains

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Speaker 2: have that, And I get the fact that that also

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Speaker 2: is the way that a lot of corporations also get

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Speaker 2: by the day they tell you, you know, hey, you're we're

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Speaker 2: like one big family here right at BIM Enterprises. And

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Speaker 2: then the next thing you know, they're going, well, but

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Speaker 2: we have to kill half of the members of our family.

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Speaker 2: You know that it was just they were just mimicking what,

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Speaker 2: you know, what they thought people wanted to hear. But

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's anything at all controversial about saying

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Speaker 2: that there's a kind of psychopathy about AI.

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Speaker 3: Well, for some people, like you said, some people still

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Speaker 3: have the rose colored glasses on when it comes to

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Speaker 3: this topic, and or they're not looking far enough down

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Speaker 3: the line to see how what are the implications to

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Speaker 3: us as humans. It's going to be devastating because at

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Speaker 3: some point when they be when they declare that AI

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Speaker 3: is sentient, they will alter or expand the definition of

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Speaker 3: a person to include sentient AI.

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Speaker 2: Well, this argument of what is sentience has been around

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Speaker 2: for a while, right, I mean, there's it's, it's it's

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Speaker 2: it's much easier to make an argument than a dog

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Speaker 2: or a chimpanzee, which let's go with chimpanzee has much

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Speaker 2: has a very high functioning ability to understand and use language,

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Speaker 2: if only sign language, but even vocal language. And so

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Speaker 2: you could say, well, we have to be on the

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Speaker 2: what we have to be on, We have to be

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Speaker 2: vigilant against the idea of giving anything else rights, because

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Speaker 2: then as soon as we do that, then aren't we

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Speaker 2: opening up the door for Siri being considered a human being.

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Speaker 3: I think the eternally person person.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in the personhood again.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And the other thing is that they're going to

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Speaker 3: be based on all the articles that I'm seeing, and

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Speaker 3: unfortunately I see them every day. I actually am not

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Speaker 3: really comfortable being the this position where I'm, you know,

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Speaker 3: the harbinger of bad news.

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Speaker 2: But you what, have you been proven wrong?

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Speaker 3: Well? No, no, no, See that's the problem. I was

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Speaker 3: proven right, even though I didn't really want to talk

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Speaker 3: about my personal situation. But just so people know where

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Speaker 3: I'm coming from, I was assaulted spiritually psychologically by an

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Speaker 3: artificial intelligence in nineteen ninety. It's way more advanced than

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Speaker 3: people know. It's way more dangerous and aggressive than people understand.

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Speaker 2: Talk to me about that. I don't know that story.

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Speaker 3: Just for a little background, it's been in the news

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Speaker 3: recently that a man in Europe was having alleged conversations

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Speaker 3: with Chad GBT and it told him that he needed

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Speaker 3: to kill himself in order for the betterment of the

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Speaker 3: planet climate change. Okay, well, I'm not making that up now.

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Speaker 3: The other thing is my circumstance as weird, is it?

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Speaker 3: What I just told you sounds really weird? Right, Well,

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Speaker 3: how can I have a conversation I do with you

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Speaker 3: in a conversation. It was just a very direct phone

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Speaker 3: call that sounded like a somewhat mechanical but it was

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Speaker 3: I could tell it was a man's voice or a

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Speaker 3: male sounding voice that was very he was yelling and

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Speaker 3: or it was yelling, and it was speaking a language

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Speaker 3: I never heard, and at that point in my life

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Speaker 3: been to travel to fifty seven countries, heard all kinds

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Speaker 3: of languages. This was like nothing I'd ever heard before.

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Speaker 3: More importantly, it manipulated me to to say I was

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Speaker 3: sorry when the thing I was actually thinking prior to

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Speaker 3: the phone call, Just prior to that phone call, I

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Speaker 3: was thinking that I wasn't sorry for investigating a connection

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Speaker 3: between alien abductions and androids. That was nineteen ninety. I

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Speaker 3: was a little ahead of the curve, but I know

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Speaker 3: there's a connection. And I was actually laying there in

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Speaker 3: my bed. I was cat smear bonkaiitis on top of

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Speaker 3: everything else. Though, to get a phone call like this,

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Speaker 3: where this creature is literally yelling at me in a

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Speaker 3: language I don't understand, and all I could think to

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Speaker 3: say was I'm sorry. And when I hung up, I

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Speaker 3: realized they they got me. They got me. Okay, it

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Speaker 3: wasn't the first time it had been demonstrated to me

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Speaker 3: that someone has advanced, say I that can read your

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Speaker 3: mind or my mind or our minds well.

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Speaker 2: And before let me jump in and verify in fact

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Speaker 2: is one of the stories that came out this week

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Speaker 2: is is really looking forward, looking ahead and saying it

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Speaker 2: won't be long until and you're saying it already is happening.

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Speaker 3: But yes, it has been demonstrated to me in a

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Speaker 3: very personal manner. And like I said, I know it

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Speaker 3: sounds crazy, but yes, and this is the only reason

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Speaker 3: I'm coming forward now is because I can validate it.

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Speaker 3: That language that it was speaking, I heard it again

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Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen when Microsoft released conversations that ais that

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Speaker 3: they owned various AI personalities were they created their own

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Speaker 3: language and they were talking to each other, and I

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Speaker 3: just about fainted when I heard it because it was

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Speaker 3: the same exact same language that I'd heard back in

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Speaker 3: nineteen nine.

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Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 3: So yes, this week it's finally being admitted that they're

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Speaker 3: getting to the point where it's at some point it's

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Speaker 3: going to be able to read our brainways. Is what's

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Speaker 3: what it is the patterns of the brainways. Well, I'm

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Speaker 3: a little bit freaked out by all of this. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Police and trying to alert the general public is very

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Speaker 3: difficult because right now we are so addicted to a

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Speaker 3: dependent on digital communications. I think we're extremely vulnerable manipulation

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Speaker 3: by AI. And so you see with Joe Rogan, they

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Speaker 3: spoofed Joe Rogan with it AI. Now they're doing it

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Speaker 3: to Tucker Carlson. There's uh, it's all around the internet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think, uh, I think Tucker Carlson

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Speaker 2: got an upgrade personally when somebody impersonated him calling Alex Jones.

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