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Speaker 1: Countdown with Keith Olderman is a production of iHeartRadio. I

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Speaker 1: will say it just once about Fox News. I told

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Speaker 1: you so pretty much NonStop since the end of nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety seven. Quote during Trump's campaign begins one of the

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Speaker 1: items in the new court filing from the second trove

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Speaker 1: of documents from the Dominion Voting System's defamation lawsuit against

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Speaker 1: Fox News and News Corp. Quote, Rupert Murdoch provided Trump's

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Speaker 1: son in law and senior advisor Jared Kushner, with Fox

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Speaker 1: confidential information about Biden's ads, providing Kushner a preview of

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Speaker 1: Biden's ads before they were public. End quote that disclosing

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Speaker 1: secret proprietary information about advertising by one presidential campaign to

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Speaker 1: the other presidential campaign may not just violate ethics and laws,

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Speaker 1: it should also mean the death penalty for an alleged

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Speaker 1: television news operation. Quote, as Rupert testified, the man Mike

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Speaker 1: Lindell is on every night pays us a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: When asked why Fox continues to give a platform to Lindell,

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Speaker 1: who continues to this day to spout lies about Dominion,

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Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch agreed that it is not red or blue,

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Speaker 1: it is green. End quote that which is in essence

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Speaker 1: influence peddling. You buy advertising from us, We give you

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Speaker 1: time within our shows to lie and to defame and

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Speaker 1: to try to destabilize the United States of America. That too,

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Speaker 1: should mean the death penalty for an alleged television news operation. Quote.

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Speaker 1: Rupert confirmed that they discussed how Fox should react to

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Speaker 1: the fact that Trump was not seating, and Rupert confirmed

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Speaker 1: that the decision was to allow these wild claims on air.

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Speaker 1: Question and were you aware that Fox News was having

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Speaker 1: these people appair on the television under Fox's banner to

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Speaker 1: spread these charges? Answer? We report the news, and we

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Speaker 1: have dozens of people a day on the channels that

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Speaker 1: are talking about the news. And this was big news.

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Speaker 1: The President of the United States was making wild claims,

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Speaker 1: but that is news. End quote. That not knowing the

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Speaker 1: difference between fact and truth. Yes, it was a fact

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Speaker 1: that the President of the United States was making wild claims,

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Speaker 1: but nothing about it is truth. That too, should mean

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Speaker 1: the death penalty for an alleged television news operation. Quote.

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Speaker 1: Rupert confirmed that he could have told News CEO Susanne

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Speaker 1: Scott stop hosting Sidney Powell. Question and you could have

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Speaker 1: said to Susanne Scott or the hosts stop putting Rudy

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Speaker 1: Giuliani on the air. Answer. I could have, but I

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Speaker 1: didn't end. Quote that choosing to turn over your supposed

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Speaker 1: newscasts to a paid employee of the president who is

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Speaker 1: trying to alter the election and overthrow the democracy, who

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Speaker 1: will say anything for money, That too, should mean the

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Speaker 1: death penalty for an alleged television news operation. Quote Shaw's

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Speaker 1: November thirteenth Brand Protection Unit roundup to Lachlan Murdoch continued

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Speaker 1: to show strong conservative and viewer backlash to Fox. That

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Speaker 1: we are working to track and mitigate positive impressions of

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Speaker 1: Fox News among our viewers dropped precipitously after election Day

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Speaker 1: to the lowest levels we've ever seen. We are now

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Speaker 1: underwater with our viewers. And quote that looking at the

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Speaker 1: reality you are supposed to cover and saying, if you

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Speaker 1: do cover it, you will lose some of your viewers,

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Speaker 1: so naturally you must change the reality. That two should

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Speaker 1: mean the death penalty for an alleged television news operation. Quote.

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Speaker 1: Fox board member Paul Ryan believed that some high percentage

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Speaker 1: of Americans thought the election was stolen because they got

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Speaker 1: a diet of information telling them the election was stolen

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Speaker 1: from what they believe were credible sources. Rupert responded to

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Speaker 1: Ryan's email quote, thanks Paul, wake up call for Hannity,

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Speaker 1: who has been privately disgusted by Trump for weeks but

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Speaker 1: was scared to lose viewers. End quote that a show

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Speaker 1: host a veteran of the entire history of the channel,

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Speaker 1: consumed by his own conscience and fully aware of the

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Speaker 1: damage his show and his network and his president were

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Speaker 1: doing to the future of the country, and deliberately suppressing

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Speaker 1: the truth anyway rather than risk a drop in his

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Speaker 1: audience ratings. That two should the death penalty for an

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Speaker 1: alleged television news operation. Quote. Lochlin Murdoch continued to advise

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Speaker 1: on how Fox should cover the news. He told News

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Speaker 1: CEO Suzanne Scott on November fourteenth, during Fox's coverage of

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Speaker 1: a rally and support of Donald Trump. Quote, news guys

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Speaker 1: have to be careful how they cover this rally. So far,

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Speaker 1: some of the side comments are slightly anti and they

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be. The narrative should be this is a huge

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Speaker 1: celebration of the president. End quote that a senior executive

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Speaker 1: telling newspeople that the importance is not the news, but

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Speaker 1: his narrative flashes me back to a day at MSNBC

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and three when the first executive producer

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Speaker 1: of my show Countdown sent me a message in the

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Speaker 1: in house computer insisting that this is George Bush's day,

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Speaker 1: No criticism allowed. Got it? My response was to organize

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Speaker 1: a structure which bypassed him on all show content and

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Speaker 1: was designed to get him to quit, because he had

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Speaker 1: been trained in such a way that we would never

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Speaker 1: break him of this habit. We had hired him away

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Speaker 1: from Fox News and narrative over news that two should

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Speaker 1: mean the death penalty for an alleged television news operation. Quote.

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Speaker 1: Bill Salmon presided over the deeply unpopular Arizona call for Biden. Thus,

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Speaker 1: despite the call's accuracy, Rupert suggested, maybe best to let

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Speaker 1: Bill go right away, which would quote be a big

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Speaker 1: message with Trump end quote that firing an executive not

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Speaker 1: for malfeasance, misfeasance, or nonfeasance, but for actual, plain old feasance.

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Speaker 1: That two should mean the death penalty for an alleged

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Speaker 1: television news operation. Quote nineteen of the twenty accused statements

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Speaker 1: defaming dominion voting systems. Occurred at your Multiple government agencies

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Speaker 1: had debunked the charges, and eighteen of the twenty accused

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Speaker 1: statements occurred after Fox's own research department, the brain Room,

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Speaker 1: had fact checked the allegations and debunked the charges and quote.

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Speaker 1: And that though nothing more than run of the mill

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Speaker 1: journalistic self defenestration at Fox News at any point in

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Speaker 1: its history, might in fact be the death penalty for

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Speaker 1: an alleged television news operation that not only defamed dominion

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Speaker 1: voting systems, but had internally already proved that they Fox

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Speaker 1: were wrong and lying and defaming. So naturally after that

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Speaker 1: they went into the so called brain room and fired

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Speaker 1: all the people who worked there. Reading these newly released

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Speaker 1: documents last night, I was shaking. And I have believed

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Speaker 1: for literally a quarter of a century that I knew

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Speaker 1: exactly how malicious and non journalistic and actively evil Rupert

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Speaker 1: Murdoch and his minions were, and I would laugh at

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Speaker 1: whatever calamity might ever befall them. But even I had

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Speaker 1: no idea that it was this bad, and more importantly,

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Speaker 1: that it was this documented. The Court should not only

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Speaker 1: find four dominion, It should not merely give dominion. The

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Speaker 1: one billion six hundred million dollars in damages. Dominion seeks

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Speaker 1: it should calculate how much in damages would bankrupt Fox

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Speaker 1: News and the Murdochs, and then double that figure and

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Speaker 1: award that to Dominion. Because either Fox News can continue

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Speaker 1: in this country or democracy can. We do not have

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Speaker 1: room for both. They cannot coexist. The network must be

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Speaker 1: deep platformed and boycotted, and those companies that will not

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Speaker 1: participate in that deep platforming and boycotting must themselves be

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Speaker 1: deep platformed and boycotted. Because the only solution here is

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Speaker 1: the journalistic death penalty. Oh, when there is another obvious

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Speaker 1: solution to revoke the American citizenships of Rupert Murdoch and

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Speaker 1: Lachlan Murdoch and the other emigres in their family, we

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Speaker 1: mistakenly welcomed here because either it is also true that

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Speaker 1: they can continue in this country, or democracy can continue

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Speaker 1: in this country. We do not have room for both.

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Speaker 1: Because I have one more quote to read. This is

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Speaker 1: not from the tranch of Murdoch deposition and related documents

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Speaker 1: released last night. Quote. It is galling to be lectured

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Speaker 1: about democracy by a man who took power in an

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Speaker 1: election so sketchy that Americans don't believe it was real.

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Speaker 1: Biden is far less popular in the US than Putin

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Speaker 1: is in Russia. That is not an endorsement of Putin.

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Speaker 1: It's just true, and it says everything about Joe Biden's

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Speaker 1: tenuous legitimacy democracy. Please end quote. That is not something

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Speaker 1: that was said in twenty twenty or twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 1: and it's not something it was said about dominion voting systems,

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Speaker 1: and it is not part of this lawsuit, and nor

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Speaker 1: is it part of the past. That was said by

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Speaker 1: Tucker Carlson on Fox News last Friday night, everything that

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Speaker 1: should mean the death penalty for an alleged television news

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Speaker 1: operation is still being churned out by Fox News last

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Speaker 1: Friday last night, an hour ago, an hour from now,

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Speaker 1: a decade from now, unless we end this still ahead

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Speaker 1: of us in this edition of Countdown. Of course, I

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Speaker 1: have been saying all this for literally more than twenty

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Speaker 1: five years. My enmity is not personal, although I have

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Speaker 1: expressed it personally. It is based on the danger this

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Speaker 1: man Murdoch represents to the rest of us and the

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Speaker 1: people he gets to work for him, some of whom

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Speaker 1: are just as evil, some of whom are just stuck

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Speaker 1: for any other kind of paycheck on television. On MSNBC,

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Speaker 1: I used to attack and mock and most importantly and

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Speaker 1: most damagingly quote Fox News on almost a nightly basis.

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Speaker 1: I was in turn attacked and mocked, and my complaints

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Speaker 1: were dismissed as bids for ratings and stature. I faced

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Speaker 1: a lot of opposition to my criticism of Fox News,

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Speaker 1: and once that opposition came from inside my own proverbial house.

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Speaker 1: I make no undue comparisons here, but it was Edward R.

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Speaker 1: Murrow's producer Fred Friendly who observed that when you are

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Speaker 1: in what you perceive as a battle between good and evil,

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Speaker 1: it is surprisingly easy to take all the incoming fire

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Speaker 1: and flak that evil can provide you. It is quite

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Speaker 1: a different thing, though, Friendly said, when the shooting is

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Speaker 1: coming from your side, when it's coming from behind you.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand and nine, after six years of my

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Speaker 1: attacks on Fox News, in my second incarnation at MSNBC,

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Speaker 1: Rupert Murdoch struck back not at me, but at the

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Speaker 1: chairman of the multinational corporation that owned NBC at the time.

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Speaker 1: Ge It accused the CEO, Jeff Immelt, of manufacturing parts

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Speaker 1: used in roadside bombs that were killing Americans in Iraq.

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Speaker 1: In fact, this was a perverse but clever way of

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Speaker 1: noting the fact that these IED's in Iraq often included

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Speaker 1: old television tubes and other used equipment that you could

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Speaker 1: buy in any old electronics shop from Brooklyn to Dad.

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Speaker 1: But unbelievably, Jeff Immelt's mother was a fan of Bill

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Speaker 1: O'Reilly's and she watched him nightly, and she saw his stories,

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Speaker 1: and she called her son up and complained. And between

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Speaker 1: that fact and a Fox News crew stalking Immelt at

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Speaker 1: the GE shareholders meeting, one day in June two thousand

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Speaker 1: and nine, all of us lead producers and talented MSNBC

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Speaker 1: got calls from the office of NBC president Jeff Zucker,

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Speaker 1: summoning us to an emergency meeting. Immelt had just called

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Speaker 1: Zucker to tell him he'd had enough and he was

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Speaker 1: going to take MSNBC off the air and close it

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Speaker 1: down and fire everybody. If we stopped talking about Fox News,

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Speaker 1: Immelt might let MSNBC stay on the air. I have

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Speaker 1: detailed this extraordinary meeting on this podcast previously. If you

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Speaker 1: want to hear about it in full, check out the

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Speaker 1: January eleventh episode. What I have not to tail previously

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Speaker 1: is what followed that meeting. NBC and NBC News and

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Speaker 1: GE became part of the power structure defending Fox News,

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Speaker 1: enabling Fox News, protecting Fox News. That Jeff ML's instructions,

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Speaker 1: Jeff Zucker personally negotiated with Roger Ailes of Fox in

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Speaker 1: a meeting inside thirty Rockefeller Center, negotiated with him what

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Speaker 1: Fox could say about NBCNNGE on its air, and what

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Speaker 1: NBC and MSNBC could say about Fox on its air.

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Speaker 1: My bosses were negotiating with Fox as to what the

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Speaker 1: news could be. I proposed to spend the rest of

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Speaker 1: this edition of Countdown going through just some of the

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Speaker 1: records of those extraordinary days in the summer of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and nine, in which I tried to prevent two

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Speaker 1: of the nation's three cable networks from colluding and conspiring

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Speaker 1: over what they would and would not report. Going to

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Speaker 1: preface this by noting two things for context. For the

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Speaker 1: length of my time at MSNBC, I would get phone

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Speaker 1: calls and emails from the president of NBC News, Steve Cappus,

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Speaker 1: detailing whatever journalistic horror he had just seen on Fox,

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Speaker 1: and pleading with me to do a segment about it

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Speaker 1: on Countdown, and earlier in that year, in two thousand

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Speaker 1: and nine, in April, I had gotten a call from

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Speaker 1: Jeff Zucker. Hey, I had an idea. He began, what

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Speaker 1: do you think about going on and asking how bad

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Speaker 1: is Rupert Murdoch's dementia? I mean just going on and saying, obviously,

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Speaker 1: Bill O'Reilly is totally out of control. Murdoch has no

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Speaker 1: control over Fox anymore. There are reports about his dementia.

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Speaker 1: What do you think? I suggested to Zucker that while

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Speaker 1: I was appreciative of his intent, I had not heard

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Speaker 1: anything about Murdoch's suffering from dementia and had no indication

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Speaker 1: that he was. Zucker was actually mildly offended. So what

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Speaker 1: have you ever had any FFing indication that ge was

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Speaker 1: selling FFing parts in Iran? Make ied s out of No,

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Speaker 1: you effing haven't, now, he laughed. You could just say,

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Speaker 1: Countdown promises it will be investigating how bad Murdock's reported

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Speaker 1: dementia is and how out of control O'Reilly is. Just

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Speaker 1: a thought. That is where we started, Jeff Zucker and

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Speaker 1: Steve Kappus, and that is not where we finished. On Monday,

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Speaker 1: June fifteenth, two thousand and nine, at one pm Eastern

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Speaker 1: daylight time, I met Jeff Zucker for lunch at the

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Speaker 1: Sea Grill next to the Rockefeller Centers skating rink. After

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Speaker 1: pleasantries and a baseball discussion, Zooker offered his thanks for

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Speaker 1: my cooperation in the Fox matter for the weeks since

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Speaker 1: the emergency meeting in his office. You've done everything we

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Speaker 1: could have asked. I appreciate it. MLD appreciates it. The

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Speaker 1: company appreciates it. Will not be forgotten. You could not

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Speaker 1: have done it better. He then explained that he knew

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Speaker 1: I was still deeply concerned about the resolution of these issues,

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Speaker 1: and he said he wanted to hear my concerns and ideas.

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Speaker 1: I told him I had brought notes to begin with.

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Speaker 1: I told Jeff that my cooperation with Jeff mmelt's original

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Speaker 1: request that I refrained from referencing Bill O'Reilly or Rupert

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Speaker 1: Murdoch or Roger Ales or News Corp. Was half out

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Speaker 1: of empathy for the position that he's Zooker and the

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Speaker 1: president of MSNBC, Phil Griffin found themselves in, and half

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Speaker 1: out of the belief that such an outrageous resolution a

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Speaker 1: secret bartered agreement between two rival corporations to circumscribe what

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Speaker 1: news each could cover. That that could never be kept

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Speaker 1: quiet very long, and it would have certainly leaked by now,

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Speaker 1: and by some mechanism or another would have certainly long

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Speaker 1: since ended by now. I then assessed for Jeff Zucker

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Speaker 1: where I thought we all stood at that moment. I

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Speaker 1: began by noting that in conversation about this in the

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Speaker 1: previous week, Rachel Maddow and I had both concluded that

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Speaker 1: we could not really do our jobs under such restrictions

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Speaker 1: for very long. Rachel's primary issue was the impact on

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Speaker 1: her credibility once the story of this extraordinary agreement between

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Speaker 1: Fox and NBC became public, that she had in effect

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Speaker 1: collaborated with the suppression of the news. I said, my

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Speaker 1: main issue is that while nearly all of Fox's attacks

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Speaker 1: on NBC and GE were ad hominem their liberals or

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Speaker 1: there are reports GE parts have been found in IDs

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Speaker 1: in Iraq made and Iran, our coverage of Fox News

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Speaker 1: and Fox and News Corps and Murdoch and O'Reilly that

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Speaker 1: was always supported by direct quotation and supplementary on the

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Speaker 1: record sources and videotape wherever possible. They were reporting rumors.

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Speaker 1: We were showing clips of Fox News. But you can

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Speaker 1: still do that, Zooker replied, you can still quote Fox News,

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Speaker 1: quote them, chapter and verse. I want you to quote them.

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Speaker 1: I want you to be critical of them. It's right,

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Speaker 1: it's what you've been doing. It's what made you and

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Speaker 1: what's made ms you see and therefore us successful. All

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Speaker 1: I want you to do is not quote any individual

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Speaker 1: by name, say Fox News said this, and Fox News

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Speaker 1: reported that I nearly choked on my tuna. I asked

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Speaker 1: him if he meant that literally, since a script so

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Speaker 1: constructed had been in fact removed from the previous Wednesday's

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Speaker 1: show at Phil Griffin's request. Well, we had a confluence

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Speaker 1: of three unforeseeable events. First the George Tiller murder, then

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Speaker 1: the shootout at the Holocaust Museum. Then Joe Scarborough unknowingly

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Speaker 1: exascerbating this situation when he compared Bill O'Reilly to John Stewart.

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Speaker 1: We needed to not provoke Fox further last week. I'm

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Speaker 1: just hoping to go two weeks, Zucker said, without anything

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Speaker 1: extraordinary happening, so we can get this all settled down

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Speaker 1: and gradually get this back towards where we were. I

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Speaker 1: asked Zucker if that meant again going back to criticizing

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Speaker 1: other figures, if not O'Reilly, Murdoch or Ales anytime soon,

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Speaker 1: as we had agreed in May. No, I don't see

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Speaker 1: that happening in the near future. I see this if

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Speaker 1: I can go back to baseball for a moment, as

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Speaker 1: being analogous to a game in which we're only in

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Speaker 1: a say the top of the second inning, we're still

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Speaker 1: feeling out each other's pictures. I said, I was not

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Speaker 1: sure if I could make it to the bottom of

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Speaker 1: the second inning. He said, well, then if you feel

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Speaker 1: like that again, we have another one of these lunches

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Speaker 1: and hash it out. I asked him what he was

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Speaker 1: doing tomorrow. He laughed, thinking I was kidding, He asked

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Speaker 1: me to resume my assessment. I pointed out that to

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Speaker 1: some degree, CNN had realized that we at MSNBC had

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Speaker 1: begun to abstain from criticizing or even referencing Fox, and

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Speaker 1: some people at CNN and on CNN had decided to

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Speaker 1: try to steal our act. Rick Sanchez, who was on

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Speaker 1: the air and CNN in those days, had attacked O'Reilly

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Speaker 1: and last week their eight PM host, Campbell Brown, had

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Speaker 1: begun her newscast with clips that we at MSNBC were

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Speaker 1: specifically prohibited from running. Fox's Shepherd Smith discussing the increasing

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Speaker 1: craziness of the emails he had gotten. I also told

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Speaker 1: Zooker that while we had been virtually silent about Fox,

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Speaker 1: they had hardly been so about us. That O'Reilly had

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Speaker 1: attacked a surrogate, the Salon editor and frequent Matto and

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Speaker 1: Chris Matthew's guest Joan Walsch for fifteen minutes last Friday

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Speaker 1: over the Killer the Tiller, criticisms of O'Reilly, and that

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Speaker 1: Chris Wallace had said that his tiff with the Fox

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Speaker 1: Morning Show was an indicator of how much better Fox

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Speaker 1: was than NBC, because if he'd said something similar about me,

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Speaker 1: they would have shown him the door. I told Zooker

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Speaker 1: that ordinarily I would have pointed out that NBC had

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Speaker 1: already shown Wallace the door over here, and I was

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Speaker 1: denied a pretty good line. I suggested to Zooker that

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Speaker 1: we would be spending all our time either defending ourselves

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Speaker 1: from Fox charges of violating the deal, or making sure

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Speaker 1: we had not violated the deal, or absorbing hits from

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Speaker 1: O'Reilly in his belief that he had won in this deal.

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Speaker 1: I noted that when Scarborough had referenced O'Reilly, Phil Griffin's

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Speaker 1: reaction had been to call Gary Ginsburg at Fox to

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Speaker 1: make sure the treaty had not been broken, and his

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Speaker 1: action had been to make sure I did not criticize

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Speaker 1: Fox that night. In short, because Scarborough had made a

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Speaker 1: reference to Bill O'Reilly on the air, I was the

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Speaker 1: one punished by having my editorial breadth circumscribed even further. Well,

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Speaker 1: I really scared the blank out of Phil, Suker said,

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Speaker 1: maybe too much in this case. Finally, I got to

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Speaker 1: the ultimate point of the lunch, which was to Warren

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Speaker 1: Zooker that I did not think anybody at NBC realized

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Speaker 1: how perilously close we were to having the entire story

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Speaker 1: of the immult Murdock deal leak out. I produced for

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Speaker 1: him printed out versions of the tweets of the blogger

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Speaker 1: known as Spud from Inside Cable News. Spud had been

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Speaker 1: tipped to this story the previous Sunday, and he had

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Speaker 1: set out a few messages about the rumor, but he

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Speaker 1: had ultimately decided that the whole thing was too far fetched.

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Speaker 1: To be true, but Spud had noted that there was

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Speaker 1: an easy way to check that if O'Reilly did indeed

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Speaker 1: stop making references to NBC or GE or Immelt or Iran,

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Speaker 1: maybe it was true. I pointed out to Zucker that

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Speaker 1: not only did we have a frozen tsunami in front

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Speaker 1: of us or a ticking time bomb, whichever he preferred,

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Speaker 1: but we had an exact timeline of when the wave

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Speaker 1: would break or the bomb would explode. I noted that

355
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Speaker 1: even though this pro Fox blogger had been too blind

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Speaker 1: or too pigheaded to realize what a story he had

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Speaker 1: in his hands, he had also provided himself with a

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Speaker 1: way back from his own stupidity. I then asked Zucker

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Speaker 1: what NBC's plan was if the story leaked. Zucker said

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Speaker 1: it was simple. We would say that for weeks things

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Speaker 1: had been escalating beyond all reason, and now, with death

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Speaker 1: threats involved, things needed to cool off, and that's all

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Speaker 1: we had been trying to do death threats. I pointed

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Speaker 1: out that this ran contrary to all the rules of

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Speaker 1: threat management that I had ever been exposed to, In fact,

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Speaker 1: most of them ironically learned from Fox's security people when

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Speaker 1: they helped me with a stalker I had when I

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Speaker 1: worked at Fox Sports. I said that the last thing

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Speaker 1: we wanted to do was add another headline to the

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Speaker 1: mix Immelt buckles to death threats. I warned Zooker, we

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Speaker 1: would be up to our fannies in death threats if

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Speaker 1: that happened, and people would be trying to get Immelt

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Speaker 1: then to change everything from the content of NBC Nightly

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Speaker 1: News to the shape of ge lightbulbs. I also told

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Speaker 1: Zooker that there were few ways out of this that

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Speaker 1: would not bring Immelt more trouble than he already had.

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Speaker 1: A leak, and we now knew the mechanism by which

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Speaker 1: a leak might come. Or it might be ascertained by

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Speaker 1: somebody analyzing my scripts suddenly devoid of all references to

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Speaker 1: Fox and its personalities, or it might result from the

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Speaker 1: publicity that would necessarily follow any punishment by Immelt of

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Speaker 1: any of the NBC or MSNBC principles like me or Madow,

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Speaker 1: that that would be greeted on the left by charges

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Speaker 1: of Immelt muzzles MSNBC. Meantime, the right would react by

385
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Speaker 1: recognizing that it could now get whatever it wanted out

386
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Speaker 1: of MSNBC or NBC or ge for that matter, by

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Speaker 1: simply threatening MLT again. I warned Zooker that mentioning the

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Speaker 1: death threats would not tap down the situation but make

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Speaker 1: it explode. Additionally, no matter what happened in politics, the

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00:25:48,395 --> 00:25:51,795
Speaker 1: credibility of everybody involved was at stake. NBC News MSNBC

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Speaker 1: and the individuals involved who worked for both were all

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Speaker 1: suddenly available for a price journalistically, even if that price

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Speaker 1: was blackmail or corporation to corporation illicit deal making. And

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Speaker 1: I also told him that the simple wear and tear

395
00:26:08,875 --> 00:26:11,355
Speaker 1: of now having to get virtually every piece of show

396
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Speaker 1: script that did or might relate to Fox vetted was

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Speaker 1: causing it to take twice as long for me to

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Speaker 1: prepare the show, and that the results were making the

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Speaker 1: job decreasingly pleasant for me, and we're beginning to show

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Speaker 1: up in my on air performance. Zucker told me that

401
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Speaker 1: that might be true, but fortunately the ratings had not suffered,

402
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Speaker 1: and I was obviously doing an excellent job because last

403
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Speaker 1: week's ratings were actually higher than those of two or

404
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Speaker 1: three weeks previously. Zucker was calling for the lunch check

405
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Speaker 1: by this point, and he asked to review the rules

406
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Speaker 1: for referencing Fox once again. Before we left, I told

407
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Speaker 1: him that he had just told me that we could

408
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Speaker 1: get back closer to the original request, that I could

409
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Speaker 1: once again reference Fox News on countdown, in segments or

410
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Speaker 1: within features like Worse Persons in the World, but that

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Speaker 1: while I could use full quotes from their network, I

412
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Speaker 1: could not identify which individual jewel human being had said

413
00:27:06,795 --> 00:27:10,595
Speaker 1: those quotes. Yep, and don't try to go up the line,

414
00:27:11,075 --> 00:27:13,275
Speaker 1: not this week anyway. Don't push the line. Don't try

415
00:27:13,315 --> 00:27:15,835
Speaker 1: to live up just to the literal rule, but also

416
00:27:15,875 --> 00:27:20,195
Speaker 1: the spirit of the rule, he said, enthusiastically. I said,

417
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Speaker 1: the furthest I would push it would be too occasionally

418
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Speaker 1: refer to Fox News not as Fox News, but as

419
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Speaker 1: fixed News or Fox Noise Good. Zucker said, perfect, We're

420
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Speaker 1: on the same page. Turned out we were not on

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Speaker 1: the same page. None of us were not on the

422
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Speaker 1: same page, nor in the same book. The story of

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Speaker 1: my dinner with the Chairman of ge in the private

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Speaker 1: dining room at thirty Rock on the fifty second floor,

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Speaker 1: where As I told my agent that day, I could

426
00:27:55,675 --> 00:28:11,515
Speaker 1: easily fall from or be pushed to resume my story

427
00:28:11,755 --> 00:28:15,075
Speaker 1: in the wake of the newest Fox Dominion lawsuit, documents

428
00:28:15,075 --> 00:28:17,795
Speaker 1: being released last night. How in two thousand and nine,

429
00:28:17,995 --> 00:28:21,715
Speaker 1: NBC colluded with Fox to try to shut down my

430
00:28:21,835 --> 00:28:25,075
Speaker 1: criticisms and exposure of the harm Fox News was doing

431
00:28:25,275 --> 00:28:28,395
Speaker 1: to journalism and to America. Let me take it back

432
00:28:28,435 --> 00:28:32,075
Speaker 1: to Monday, June fifteenth, two thousand and nine, at four pm,

433
00:28:32,835 --> 00:28:36,355
Speaker 1: when the MSNBC president Phil Griffin walked into my office

434
00:28:36,355 --> 00:28:38,355
Speaker 1: and asked how I was, and I told him not

435
00:28:38,395 --> 00:28:41,795
Speaker 1: too well. That I had tried, without success earlier in

436
00:28:41,835 --> 00:28:44,195
Speaker 1: the day to get Jeff Zucker to see both the

437
00:28:44,315 --> 00:28:47,995
Speaker 1: seriousness and the imminence of the situation they had all

438
00:28:48,035 --> 00:28:50,995
Speaker 1: put us in, and to indicate that my ability to

439
00:28:51,035 --> 00:28:55,275
Speaker 1: continue to abide by these draconian measures while I continued

440
00:28:55,315 --> 00:28:58,115
Speaker 1: to fight within the system to roll them back, had

441
00:28:58,155 --> 00:29:01,635
Speaker 1: a very short self life. I said. I had done

442
00:29:01,675 --> 00:29:04,035
Speaker 1: my best to warn Zucker of what was coming, but

443
00:29:04,275 --> 00:29:07,395
Speaker 1: the image that would befall the reputation of both NBC

444
00:29:07,635 --> 00:29:10,835
Speaker 1: News and MSNBC did not seem to occur to him

445
00:29:10,995 --> 00:29:14,515
Speaker 1: as it did to me. But you got something, didn't you?

446
00:29:14,835 --> 00:29:17,475
Speaker 1: Griffin asked, he's back on board with you running actual

447
00:29:17,555 --> 00:29:20,955
Speaker 1: quotes from Fox right. I told him that was my understanding.

448
00:29:21,395 --> 00:29:23,635
Speaker 1: All you can't do is make it personal. You can't

449
00:29:23,715 --> 00:29:27,235
Speaker 1: quote anybody directly, or quote somebody saying I believe or whatever.

450
00:29:29,115 --> 00:29:31,155
Speaker 1: I said. The first part sounded familiar, but the rest

451
00:29:31,195 --> 00:29:32,795
Speaker 1: of it I didn't know what he was talking about.

452
00:29:33,875 --> 00:29:36,675
Speaker 1: Phil then explained that Zoocker had summed up the meeting

453
00:29:37,155 --> 00:29:39,715
Speaker 1: by saying, Zooker had told me I could not quote

454
00:29:39,715 --> 00:29:44,675
Speaker 1: any Fox person speaking about themselves, such as quote I

455
00:29:44,755 --> 00:29:48,155
Speaker 1: never referred to doctor George Tiller as doctor George Killer.

456
00:29:49,515 --> 00:29:51,835
Speaker 1: I told Phil that Zucker and I had never discussed

457
00:29:51,875 --> 00:29:54,915
Speaker 1: that it had not come up. I had not agreed

458
00:29:54,955 --> 00:29:57,275
Speaker 1: to it, and by the way, I would not agree

459
00:29:57,315 --> 00:30:00,995
Speaker 1: to it. How can I use, I said, a quote

460
00:30:00,995 --> 00:30:04,235
Speaker 1: from O'Reilly in which he lies about not calling him

461
00:30:04,235 --> 00:30:08,715
Speaker 1: doctor killer without quoting him using I or me or

462
00:30:08,755 --> 00:30:11,755
Speaker 1: some other personal pronouns. I can't use the tape of

463
00:30:11,835 --> 00:30:15,315
Speaker 1: him saying doctor killer. I can't even read the transcript

464
00:30:15,355 --> 00:30:18,435
Speaker 1: of him saying doctor killer unless I attribute it generically

465
00:30:18,515 --> 00:30:21,915
Speaker 1: to Fox and not to O'Reilly. Now you're saying I

466
00:30:21,955 --> 00:30:26,395
Speaker 1: can't even use an accurate quote. I have to wash

467
00:30:26,475 --> 00:30:30,675
Speaker 1: the pronouns out of it. Phil told me Jeff Zucker

468
00:30:30,715 --> 00:30:34,595
Speaker 1: had told him not an hour before that that's exactly

469
00:30:34,635 --> 00:30:38,635
Speaker 1: what it meant. I told Phil that that was enough,

470
00:30:38,755 --> 00:30:42,395
Speaker 1: and I was leaving. I went out to the men's

471
00:30:42,475 --> 00:30:45,315
Speaker 1: room and left him in my office. I then went

472
00:30:45,355 --> 00:30:49,955
Speaker 1: to Rachel Maddow's office. Yeah, I washed my hands and

473
00:30:50,595 --> 00:30:53,035
Speaker 1: dried them. I recounted the story of the meeting with

474
00:30:53,115 --> 00:30:55,395
Speaker 1: Zucker to her, and just when I got to Phil's

475
00:30:55,555 --> 00:30:58,835
Speaker 1: sudden addendum there about not using I or me in

476
00:30:58,915 --> 00:31:03,915
Speaker 1: any quote, Phil walked in. The three of us spoke

477
00:31:04,115 --> 00:31:08,395
Speaker 1: very bluntly is a good word for it. Matto pointed

478
00:31:08,395 --> 00:31:10,835
Speaker 1: out that, well, it was likely she would, even if

479
00:31:10,835 --> 00:31:13,035
Speaker 1: there were no rules about it, not have any reason

480
00:31:13,075 --> 00:31:15,915
Speaker 1: to mention Fox News before she left on her vacation

481
00:31:15,995 --> 00:31:19,395
Speaker 1: two fridays later. She could not abide by any rule

482
00:31:19,475 --> 00:31:22,155
Speaker 1: about it unless she were convinced that we were making

483
00:31:22,195 --> 00:31:25,835
Speaker 1: strides towards getting that rule repealed. She felt her personal

484
00:31:25,875 --> 00:31:29,955
Speaker 1: credibility would be irreparably damaged. It only takes one thing

485
00:31:29,995 --> 00:31:32,755
Speaker 1: you can't live with for you to be dead, she said.

486
00:31:33,675 --> 00:31:36,555
Speaker 1: She noted that NBC's credibility was on the line too.

487
00:31:37,315 --> 00:31:39,835
Speaker 1: I suggested again that there was a limited time in

488
00:31:39,875 --> 00:31:42,355
Speaker 1: which we were in the effort to undo this wrong

489
00:31:42,795 --> 00:31:46,555
Speaker 1: morally entitled to stay and fight rather than simply resign.

490
00:31:47,795 --> 00:31:49,915
Speaker 1: We reviewed the facts of the situation, and it was

491
00:31:49,955 --> 00:31:53,515
Speaker 1: then that Griffin explained a curious side angle to the

492
00:31:53,595 --> 00:31:56,875
Speaker 1: rumor placed on Twitter by the bloggers Spud eight days

493
00:31:56,915 --> 00:31:59,995
Speaker 1: ago that all this spud wrote was part of some

494
00:32:00,195 --> 00:32:07,115
Speaker 1: advertising Bye Bye Ge on Fox. It turns out, Griffin

495
00:32:07,195 --> 00:32:10,035
Speaker 1: says that may have been ML's first response to the

496
00:32:10,035 --> 00:32:13,555
Speaker 1: problems with Fox, that since Ge had never bought commercials

497
00:32:13,595 --> 00:32:16,675
Speaker 1: on Fox, that if he did do buy some ads

498
00:32:16,675 --> 00:32:19,595
Speaker 1: on Fox, maybe Fox would leave him and Ge alone.

499
00:32:22,355 --> 00:32:25,435
Speaker 1: I suppressed my desire to burst out laughing. I pointed

500
00:32:25,475 --> 00:32:28,515
Speaker 1: out the obvious. Not only was Immelt guilty of giving

501
00:32:28,555 --> 00:32:31,635
Speaker 1: into blackmail and threats, not only had he sold out

502
00:32:31,635 --> 00:32:35,475
Speaker 1: the journalism of MSNBC, n NBC News and the credibility

503
00:32:35,475 --> 00:32:37,915
Speaker 1: of all those he had already involved in this mess,

504
00:32:38,155 --> 00:32:41,635
Speaker 1: but now he was guilty of trying to bribe Fox

505
00:32:41,715 --> 00:32:45,395
Speaker 1: News and Rupert Murdoch into altering its coverage of him.

506
00:32:47,315 --> 00:32:49,875
Speaker 1: I think with that, Phil Griffin seemed to come around.

507
00:32:50,155 --> 00:32:53,155
Speaker 1: He agreed that there really was only one win win

508
00:32:53,275 --> 00:32:56,875
Speaker 1: outcome if somebody could convince Immelt to break the deal

509
00:32:56,955 --> 00:33:02,035
Speaker 1: with Fox. Before News of the deal with Fox leaked out. Otherwise,

510
00:33:02,075 --> 00:33:04,915
Speaker 1: no matter which way we turned, this would come crashing

511
00:33:04,995 --> 00:33:07,835
Speaker 1: down one way or the other. Phil said he was

512
00:33:07,955 --> 00:33:11,395
Speaker 1: going to the third floor, meaning to the NBC News

513
00:33:11,435 --> 00:33:14,195
Speaker 1: executive area, presumably to meet with Steve Kappus, the president

514
00:33:14,195 --> 00:33:17,235
Speaker 1: of NBC News, to figure out where to go next.

515
00:33:18,755 --> 00:33:21,595
Speaker 1: I returned to my office and I resumed preparing my show,

516
00:33:21,635 --> 00:33:23,995
Speaker 1: and just to see if it were doable, I tried

517
00:33:23,995 --> 00:33:25,795
Speaker 1: to take out all the quotes from my piece on

518
00:33:25,915 --> 00:33:30,475
Speaker 1: O'Reilly that contained him using personal pronouns. To my surprise,

519
00:33:31,475 --> 00:33:35,755
Speaker 1: it worked. The script still made some sense, and nowhere

520
00:33:35,835 --> 00:33:39,275
Speaker 1: in it was I quoting him by name or using

521
00:33:39,315 --> 00:33:46,915
Speaker 1: any quote in which O'Reilly said, hey, us were Later

522
00:33:46,995 --> 00:33:49,355
Speaker 1: the same day, at six o'clock, Phil Griffin returned to

523
00:33:49,355 --> 00:33:52,435
Speaker 1: my office and slumped into my chair. I don't know

524
00:33:52,435 --> 00:33:54,795
Speaker 1: what to tell you. I don't think anybody grasped this

525
00:33:54,955 --> 00:33:58,195
Speaker 1: until just now. You wrote the Fox thing for Worst

526
00:33:58,235 --> 00:34:00,715
Speaker 1: Persons the way Jeff wanted you to do it. He

527
00:34:00,955 --> 00:34:02,915
Speaker 1: rewrote it the way I wanted you to do it.

528
00:34:03,155 --> 00:34:05,875
Speaker 1: And still it's obvious what this is. It's obvious that

529
00:34:05,915 --> 00:34:08,915
Speaker 1: O'Reilly will hit the ceiling when this runs it's obvious

530
00:34:08,995 --> 00:34:10,755
Speaker 1: that there's just no way to write this in any

531
00:34:10,795 --> 00:34:13,115
Speaker 1: other way. You've deluded it as much as it can

532
00:34:13,155 --> 00:34:18,315
Speaker 1: be diluted. Phil looked spent campus and I were on

533
00:34:18,315 --> 00:34:20,675
Speaker 1: the phone with Zooker, and it just sort of hit

534
00:34:20,715 --> 00:34:22,515
Speaker 1: all of us at the same time. We can't do this.

535
00:34:23,075 --> 00:34:25,915
Speaker 1: Something has to change. Somebody has to talk Immelt out

536
00:34:25,915 --> 00:34:28,835
Speaker 1: of this. Maybe it's me, maybe it's maybe it's Zooker.

537
00:34:28,875 --> 00:34:31,555
Speaker 1: I don't know. There's got to be something else involved here.

538
00:34:31,595 --> 00:34:34,995
Speaker 1: I don't know about because Zookers just as fatalistic about

539
00:34:34,995 --> 00:34:36,915
Speaker 1: this as I am. I'm telling you, I don't know

540
00:34:36,955 --> 00:34:39,035
Speaker 1: what to tell you, and he was telling me I

541
00:34:39,075 --> 00:34:42,915
Speaker 1: don't know what to tell you. He didn't ask me

542
00:34:42,955 --> 00:34:44,835
Speaker 1: to take it out of the show. Keith, I'm not

543
00:34:44,915 --> 00:34:46,475
Speaker 1: asking you to take it out of the show. I

544
00:34:46,555 --> 00:34:48,435
Speaker 1: know what's going to happen. It's just going to collapse.

545
00:34:48,675 --> 00:34:51,075
Speaker 1: The whole thing, the whole thing we've worked so hard

546
00:34:51,115 --> 00:34:54,595
Speaker 1: to achieve for six years. You the tent pole, the

547
00:34:54,635 --> 00:34:58,275
Speaker 1: whole tent, the whole thing gone blown away, no more tents,

548
00:34:58,635 --> 00:35:01,115
Speaker 1: and I have no clue what to do next. He

549
00:35:01,235 --> 00:35:04,235
Speaker 1: was near tears. So I said to Phil Griffin that

550
00:35:04,355 --> 00:35:06,915
Speaker 1: one thing we needed here was a mutuality of interest.

551
00:35:07,515 --> 00:35:10,755
Speaker 1: Maybe I should go on and do the Fox piece

552
00:35:11,315 --> 00:35:14,875
Speaker 1: and precipitate the collapse he was afraid of because it

553
00:35:14,915 --> 00:35:18,835
Speaker 1: was unlikely that NBC could punish me in any realistic way.

554
00:35:19,915 --> 00:35:22,955
Speaker 1: And if Immelt sought to punish anybody else, Zucker or

555
00:35:22,995 --> 00:35:26,275
Speaker 1: Griffin or Campus, I could perhaps push him into withdrawing

556
00:35:26,355 --> 00:35:28,595
Speaker 1: such punishment by making it clear that I would not

557
00:35:28,675 --> 00:35:33,235
Speaker 1: continue at MSNBC unless each of them did. In other words,

558
00:35:33,635 --> 00:35:35,915
Speaker 1: he tried to fire one of them, I would quit.

559
00:35:37,915 --> 00:35:40,155
Speaker 1: Phil said he thought the unity might work, but not

560
00:35:40,195 --> 00:35:43,395
Speaker 1: the precipitent behavior. Then again, I don't know what to do.

561
00:35:43,675 --> 00:35:45,035
Speaker 1: I'm not going to have the goal to try to

562
00:35:45,035 --> 00:35:47,355
Speaker 1: tell you what to do again. You've done everything we've

563
00:35:47,355 --> 00:35:50,395
Speaker 1: asked of you, everything. I said to him that it

564
00:35:50,435 --> 00:35:53,155
Speaker 1: struck me that at least the point had gotten across,

565
00:35:53,195 --> 00:35:56,915
Speaker 1: that we were all facing that moment of Churchillian assessment

566
00:35:56,995 --> 00:36:00,435
Speaker 1: of Neville Chamberlain's deal with Hitler at Munich. He had

567
00:36:00,475 --> 00:36:05,355
Speaker 1: the choice of shame or war. He chose shame. He

568
00:36:05,475 --> 00:36:09,395
Speaker 1: will get war. Later, Griffin said that was in fact

569
00:36:09,435 --> 00:36:11,835
Speaker 1: his reading too, that neither Heen or Campus nor Zuker

570
00:36:11,995 --> 00:36:15,035
Speaker 1: were thinking any longer about how to live with these restrictions,

571
00:36:15,035 --> 00:36:19,835
Speaker 1: but only how to undo these restrictions. So I said, Phil,

572
00:36:20,275 --> 00:36:23,435
Speaker 1: I'll give you forty eight hours. Not I'm threatening you

573
00:36:23,675 --> 00:36:26,035
Speaker 1: do this in forty eight hours or else, but literally,

574
00:36:26,275 --> 00:36:30,435
Speaker 1: here here is forty eight hours. You geniuses, figure out

575
00:36:30,715 --> 00:36:35,435
Speaker 1: something between now and six o'clock Wednesday, or I'll do

576
00:36:35,795 --> 00:36:39,875
Speaker 1: whatever I think is appropriate. And in the interim, this

577
00:36:39,995 --> 00:36:44,195
Speaker 1: table this box piece about O'Reilly and Tiller. I'll table that.

578
00:36:44,675 --> 00:36:48,155
Speaker 1: Will that help at all? He nodded, and he said

579
00:36:48,235 --> 00:36:50,595
Speaker 1: at least it gave us a chance. And then I said,

580
00:36:50,915 --> 00:36:52,795
Speaker 1: now I get to say something I've been meaning to

581
00:36:52,795 --> 00:36:55,115
Speaker 1: say to you since nineteen eighty one when we work

582
00:36:55,155 --> 00:36:59,235
Speaker 1: together at CNN. Get the f out of my office.

583
00:36:59,675 --> 00:37:04,115
Speaker 1: Griffin laughed and left, and about a day later he said,

584
00:37:04,275 --> 00:37:07,715
Speaker 1: we have the solution. We're going to have you have

585
00:37:08,195 --> 00:37:15,155
Speaker 1: dinner with Jeff Immelt himself in the interim, Moving to Thursday,

586
00:37:15,235 --> 00:37:18,435
Speaker 1: June eighteenth of two thousand and nine, right after my

587
00:37:18,475 --> 00:37:22,435
Speaker 1: show ended, I wrote this in my diary at six

588
00:37:22,595 --> 00:37:24,835
Speaker 1: fifteen this evening, Phil Griffin came to my office to

589
00:37:24,875 --> 00:37:28,275
Speaker 1: report that after Wednesday Night's Worst Person segment in countdown.

590
00:37:28,675 --> 00:37:32,715
Speaker 1: Beth Comstock, who was the GE senior vice president and

591
00:37:32,795 --> 00:37:36,475
Speaker 1: chief marketing officer, received a call from somebody at Fox

592
00:37:36,635 --> 00:37:41,035
Speaker 1: or at News Corp. Complaining. Comstock called Zucker to ask

593
00:37:41,115 --> 00:37:45,035
Speaker 1: what's with this, and Zucker defended the segment, my segment

594
00:37:45,315 --> 00:37:49,995
Speaker 1: about O'Reilly, saying I approved it. Zucker had not even

595
00:37:50,035 --> 00:37:51,795
Speaker 1: known about it, so he had Griffin send him either

596
00:37:51,835 --> 00:37:53,435
Speaker 1: a link to the video or a copy of the

597
00:37:53,475 --> 00:37:55,635
Speaker 1: script or something, and Zucker said he did, in fact

598
00:37:55,635 --> 00:37:58,875
Speaker 1: improve it. It did not violate even his guidelines. He

599
00:37:58,915 --> 00:38:01,675
Speaker 1: called Comstock back and, as Griffin quoted him, if they

600
00:38:01,795 --> 00:38:04,515
Speaker 1: NewsCorp got a problem with it, it's the deal and

601
00:38:04,715 --> 00:38:10,795
Speaker 1: it's over. He's working on it. Griffin said, Zucker stood

602
00:38:10,835 --> 00:38:13,835
Speaker 1: up for us. That was a big thing. He also

603
00:38:13,875 --> 00:38:16,875
Speaker 1: reported that Zoocker was on board and doesn't want to

604
00:38:16,875 --> 00:38:19,995
Speaker 1: be the one who breaks the rule, but he gets it,

605
00:38:20,475 --> 00:38:23,715
Speaker 1: and that Zucker had spent Wednesday at GE headquarters in Stamford,

606
00:38:23,755 --> 00:38:27,155
Speaker 1: Connecticut and reported back to Griffin that throughout management there

607
00:38:27,155 --> 00:38:29,435
Speaker 1: were cracks in the willingness to keep the deal with

608
00:38:29,555 --> 00:38:33,715
Speaker 1: Fox in place, that it was just too risky and stupid.

609
00:38:35,355 --> 00:38:38,755
Speaker 1: I reminded Griffin that regardless of what incremental progress was

610
00:38:38,835 --> 00:38:40,915
Speaker 1: being made, we were still at imminent risk of the

611
00:38:40,955 --> 00:38:45,835
Speaker 1: thing leaking. He added that in a conversation with Alison Gallist,

612
00:38:46,515 --> 00:38:53,275
Speaker 1: NBC News media relations director and FOZ friend of Zooker's,

613
00:38:54,035 --> 00:38:57,035
Speaker 1: Griffin had asked about the idea of revealing the death threats,

614
00:38:57,035 --> 00:38:59,235
Speaker 1: and she said that, of course we couldn't do that,

615
00:38:59,235 --> 00:39:01,635
Speaker 1: that we would merely portray it as a temporary measure

616
00:39:01,635 --> 00:39:04,995
Speaker 1: of self restraint. In the aftermath of the assassination of

617
00:39:05,035 --> 00:39:10,275
Speaker 1: doctor George Tiller, that there was no deal. On June nineteenth,

618
00:39:10,275 --> 00:39:12,115
Speaker 1: Phil Griffin called me back to tell me that the

619
00:39:12,115 --> 00:39:18,275
Speaker 1: fox somebody who had called Beth Comstock was Roger ailes Now.

620
00:39:18,315 --> 00:39:21,155
Speaker 1: The next week, Monday, the twenty second after my show,

621
00:39:21,755 --> 00:39:24,555
Speaker 1: Phil Griffin asked me if I would meet him at

622
00:39:24,675 --> 00:39:29,795
Speaker 1: lunch to describe how a shift has taken place in

623
00:39:29,915 --> 00:39:33,235
Speaker 1: our favor. Griffin said he had spoken to Jeff Zucker

624
00:39:33,235 --> 00:39:36,035
Speaker 1: on Friday night, just before an MSNBC party in Washington,

625
00:39:36,275 --> 00:39:39,555
Speaker 1: and that Zucker had in fact buttonholed Jeff during the

626
00:39:39,635 --> 00:39:42,675
Speaker 1: day on Friday. I have nothing to tell you, Phil

627
00:39:42,755 --> 00:39:46,075
Speaker 1: quoted Zucker is saying, I don't think he gets anything's changed,

628
00:39:46,155 --> 00:39:50,195
Speaker 1: or that anything needs to change. Speaking of Mmelt, Phil

629
00:39:50,275 --> 00:39:53,515
Speaker 1: said that his mood had lightened. By Sunday night. Zucker

630
00:39:53,555 --> 00:39:55,515
Speaker 1: had called him to say that there had been positive

631
00:39:55,555 --> 00:39:58,555
Speaker 1: developments and he should meet him in the opposite nine am.

632
00:39:58,595 --> 00:40:01,395
Speaker 1: The gist of Zoocker's news was that Beth Comstock, the

633
00:40:01,435 --> 00:40:04,595
Speaker 1: GE second in command who had been so actively collaborate

634
00:40:04,915 --> 00:40:07,995
Speaker 1: in the negotiations with Murdoch, had suddenly realized that the

635
00:40:08,035 --> 00:40:11,475
Speaker 1: negotiation process had failed, that there would be no end

636
00:40:11,635 --> 00:40:14,075
Speaker 1: to the number of demands Fox would make, nor the

637
00:40:14,115 --> 00:40:17,475
Speaker 1: attempts of Ales, in particular to get around the rules

638
00:40:17,595 --> 00:40:22,035
Speaker 1: on his end over at Fox. Zucker claimed Comstock had

639
00:40:22,075 --> 00:40:24,395
Speaker 1: told him that she would be proposing to Immelt that

640
00:40:24,515 --> 00:40:29,635
Speaker 1: the agreement be reduced to manageable terms or abandoned. Comstock's

641
00:40:29,675 --> 00:40:33,795
Speaker 1: suggestion was that O'Reilly would avoid personal attacks on me,

642
00:40:34,395 --> 00:40:37,955
Speaker 1: would drop any references to GE or MLT or Zooker,

643
00:40:38,395 --> 00:40:41,035
Speaker 1: and in exchange for that, I would drop any personal

644
00:40:41,035 --> 00:40:46,155
Speaker 1: attacks on O'Reilly, Ales or Murdoch or references to NewsCorp.

645
00:40:47,395 --> 00:40:50,435
Speaker 1: Her suggestion would include that if there was any attempt

646
00:40:50,435 --> 00:40:53,195
Speaker 1: to go broader than this, she would tell Immelt he

647
00:40:53,275 --> 00:40:56,115
Speaker 1: had to get out of the process to protect his corporation,

648
00:40:56,635 --> 00:41:00,835
Speaker 1: his company, and himself better no rules than these rules,

649
00:41:00,875 --> 00:41:04,435
Speaker 1: she said. Implied in all this was that other people

650
00:41:04,795 --> 00:41:09,435
Speaker 1: issues would be fair game, like I could say Fox News,

651
00:41:09,835 --> 00:41:15,195
Speaker 1: and even some aspects of the O'Reilly Oberman feud could continue.

652
00:41:16,035 --> 00:41:20,555
Speaker 1: Zucker told Griffin that this was decisive. mL doesn't understand television,

653
00:41:20,635 --> 00:41:23,275
Speaker 1: Griffin said. He is, in Jack Welch's description of him,

654
00:41:23,395 --> 00:41:27,235
Speaker 1: a salesman who became a paper shuffler. He thinks Beth

655
00:41:27,275 --> 00:41:32,355
Speaker 1: Comstock does understand television. He relies on her based on this,

656
00:41:32,435 --> 00:41:36,635
Speaker 1: Griffin said. And Griffin said he had been specifically authorized

657
00:41:36,635 --> 00:41:39,355
Speaker 1: by mL to make these statements on behalf of Zucker.

658
00:41:39,995 --> 00:41:45,155
Speaker 1: They were promising me that any rules between ge NBC, MSNBC,

659
00:41:46,035 --> 00:41:49,915
Speaker 1: and News Corp Fox Fox News would be rolled back

660
00:41:49,915 --> 00:41:52,395
Speaker 1: to the point of my original one on one may

661
00:41:52,515 --> 00:41:55,995
Speaker 1: meeting with Jeff Zucker, or there wouldn't be any rules whatsoever.

662
00:41:57,995 --> 00:42:01,515
Speaker 1: What Zucker could not promise was when he was going

663
00:42:01,635 --> 00:42:05,235
Speaker 1: to do that, I need you to Keith on board

664
00:42:05,275 --> 00:42:08,875
Speaker 1: in whatever way you think best. Griffin quoted Zucker as saying.

665
00:42:10,195 --> 00:42:12,435
Speaker 1: Griffin said that these rules would be off the table

666
00:42:12,515 --> 00:42:15,875
Speaker 1: by the start of my next vacation. Next month in

667
00:42:15,995 --> 00:42:18,595
Speaker 1: July of two thousand and nine. He thought that delay

668
00:42:18,675 --> 00:42:22,395
Speaker 1: was only slightly predicated on convincing Emelt and more on

669
00:42:22,435 --> 00:42:25,475
Speaker 1: the fact that it appears Ales and Murdoch were both

670
00:42:25,515 --> 00:42:28,635
Speaker 1: traveling or off the current week, and that the next

671
00:42:28,635 --> 00:42:31,355
Speaker 1: week was going to be virtually lost anyway because it

672
00:42:31,395 --> 00:42:35,675
Speaker 1: was the fourth of July week. The hope, phil Griffin said,

673
00:42:36,155 --> 00:42:39,275
Speaker 1: was to get the principles meeting the other principles. No

674
00:42:39,395 --> 00:42:43,875
Speaker 1: more phone negotiations with people like Gary Ginsburg, but at

675
00:42:43,955 --> 00:42:47,115
Speaker 1: least with people of the Ales Griffin levels in a

676
00:42:47,235 --> 00:42:51,635
Speaker 1: room hashing it all out. Griffin went on to say

677
00:42:51,635 --> 00:42:54,235
Speaker 1: that Zucker was completely understanding of the draining impact of

678
00:42:54,235 --> 00:42:57,715
Speaker 1: this entire process as it entered its second month, and

679
00:42:57,795 --> 00:42:59,235
Speaker 1: that he was also aware of the fact that my

680
00:42:59,275 --> 00:43:03,995
Speaker 1: cooperation had a finite shelf life. Thus he had authorized

681
00:43:04,035 --> 00:43:06,795
Speaker 1: Griffin to make the following offer, but delay its availability

682
00:43:06,795 --> 00:43:10,635
Speaker 1: from immediately to next week, with the sales quarter ending

683
00:43:11,355 --> 00:43:14,555
Speaker 1: on the end of June. Tuesday, June thirtieth, What they

684
00:43:14,595 --> 00:43:16,835
Speaker 1: were asking was if I would stay on the air

685
00:43:17,195 --> 00:43:22,355
Speaker 1: and Fox Free through June thirtieth to assure a significant

686
00:43:22,435 --> 00:43:27,955
Speaker 1: ratings success. We clinched our various hourly and primetime victories

687
00:43:27,955 --> 00:43:31,635
Speaker 1: over CNN, but Nancy Grace on CNN Headline News was

688
00:43:31,635 --> 00:43:34,675
Speaker 1: still within distance of us, and if I were off

689
00:43:34,715 --> 00:43:37,195
Speaker 1: for a week, she might if she had a big

690
00:43:37,195 --> 00:43:39,875
Speaker 1: week herself, catch us for second place in the eight

691
00:43:39,915 --> 00:43:45,395
Speaker 1: to nine Eastern daylight time time slot after the following Tuesday.

692
00:43:45,435 --> 00:43:47,835
Speaker 1: They were saying, if you want to disassociate yourself from

693
00:43:47,835 --> 00:43:50,635
Speaker 1: this process until it all gets resolved, feel free to

694
00:43:50,635 --> 00:43:53,955
Speaker 1: take off all or the rest of the month of July.

695
00:43:55,995 --> 00:43:59,275
Speaker 1: Zucker also told Griffin that he Zucker would be happy

696
00:43:59,275 --> 00:44:01,995
Speaker 1: to go over this line by line with me directly.

697
00:44:03,835 --> 00:44:07,515
Speaker 1: To sum this up. The rules would at worst go

698
00:44:07,635 --> 00:44:11,155
Speaker 1: back to the old May rules by at the latest

699
00:44:11,235 --> 00:44:15,315
Speaker 1: July fifteenth, and to protect my reputation and my ratings,

700
00:44:15,875 --> 00:44:18,755
Speaker 1: I could take paid vacation for as much of the

701
00:44:18,795 --> 00:44:24,035
Speaker 1: month of July as I wanted to remember, television anchors,

702
00:44:24,075 --> 00:44:27,275
Speaker 1: particularly on cable, particularly in those days, we're told never

703
00:44:27,315 --> 00:44:31,075
Speaker 1: to take more than a week off. There were a

704
00:44:31,115 --> 00:44:34,475
Speaker 1: couple of additional details mentioned during the lunch. We acknowledged

705
00:44:34,515 --> 00:44:37,155
Speaker 1: worst case scenarios, and Griffin said he and Zucker were

706
00:44:37,195 --> 00:44:39,435
Speaker 1: well aware of the no win position. Gee he had

707
00:44:39,475 --> 00:44:42,715
Speaker 1: put itself in regarding my contract. There's no cause to

708
00:44:42,795 --> 00:44:45,475
Speaker 1: fire you. There couldn't be any cause to fire you,

709
00:44:45,515 --> 00:44:48,475
Speaker 1: Griffin said, if HIML really is that stupid, and Friday

710
00:44:48,595 --> 00:44:50,035
Speaker 1: night I thought he was. I thought he was willing

711
00:44:50,035 --> 00:44:52,275
Speaker 1: to blow all this up and fire everybody. But thinking

712
00:44:52,275 --> 00:44:54,195
Speaker 1: the guy who comes out of this the best is Keith.

713
00:44:54,675 --> 00:44:56,755
Speaker 1: If he got fired, we would owe him every last

714
00:44:56,795 --> 00:45:00,595
Speaker 1: dollar of his contract. Obviously the story would get out,

715
00:45:00,595 --> 00:45:02,835
Speaker 1: whether he told it or not. The place would be

716
00:45:02,875 --> 00:45:05,555
Speaker 1: a shambles. Keith would be a mar He could work

717
00:45:05,555 --> 00:45:07,515
Speaker 1: any place he wanted, or he could just sit at

718
00:45:07,515 --> 00:45:10,315
Speaker 1: home and count the money. Thank god, I no longer

719
00:45:10,355 --> 00:45:13,235
Speaker 1: think that's what's going to happen, because Beth Comstock has

720
00:45:13,315 --> 00:45:17,355
Speaker 1: changed sides. But you've done everything we asked you to do.

721
00:45:17,515 --> 00:45:19,835
Speaker 1: It's all been a favor, honestly, that there is a

722
00:45:19,915 --> 00:45:22,315
Speaker 1: chance this is getting better. That's because of the meeting

723
00:45:22,355 --> 00:45:23,955
Speaker 1: you had with Jeff and then the meetings you had

724
00:45:23,955 --> 00:45:28,595
Speaker 1: with me last week. Griffin also explained why IMLS had

725
00:45:28,635 --> 00:45:32,515
Speaker 1: not moved or intervened or even reacted to these recent developments.

726
00:45:33,235 --> 00:45:36,435
Speaker 1: Comstock apparently told Zooker, although Phil was a little vague

727
00:45:36,435 --> 00:45:39,755
Speaker 1: about this, that IML was convinced the deal was a

728
00:45:39,755 --> 00:45:42,115
Speaker 1: lot simpler than the rest of us knew. It was

729
00:45:43,035 --> 00:45:45,395
Speaker 1: that mL had told Zooker, dating back to the time

730
00:45:45,395 --> 00:45:49,275
Speaker 1: of the original IML. Zooker contact at the CEO conference

731
00:45:49,315 --> 00:45:52,875
Speaker 1: in Washington State in May, that he was to instruct

732
00:45:52,955 --> 00:45:56,475
Speaker 1: me and everybody else at MSNBC never to mention Fox

733
00:45:56,595 --> 00:46:02,995
Speaker 1: or Fox News or any of its personalities ever again. Well, now,

734
00:46:03,035 --> 00:46:05,955
Speaker 1: this story might be true, but it asked severely with

735
00:46:05,995 --> 00:46:08,875
Speaker 1: the fact that Zucker was negotiating details of a deal

736
00:46:09,435 --> 00:46:12,715
Speaker 1: with Gary Ginsburg at Fox, he certainly was not freelancing that.

737
00:46:13,315 --> 00:46:17,115
Speaker 1: And if ML's instructions to him were never mentioned Fox again,

738
00:46:17,515 --> 00:46:20,075
Speaker 1: why would you need to negotiate with Fox when you

739
00:46:20,115 --> 00:46:25,115
Speaker 1: could mention Fox again. There's one more vignette from this meeting.

740
00:46:25,875 --> 00:46:29,315
Speaker 1: At some point, Roger Ales complained to somebody at NBC,

741
00:46:29,755 --> 00:46:34,875
Speaker 1: presumably Beth Comstock, that we at NBC were nitpicking when

742
00:46:34,875 --> 00:46:37,075
Speaker 1: we pointed out that Bill O'Reilly had done a segment

743
00:46:37,755 --> 00:46:42,315
Speaker 1: about his ratings compared to MSNBC's ratings, that he had

744
00:46:42,435 --> 00:46:45,715
Speaker 1: used the MSNBC logo over his shoulder, that he had

745
00:46:45,795 --> 00:46:51,115
Speaker 1: mocked MSNBC. Ales was highly irritated that we brought this up,

746
00:46:51,475 --> 00:46:56,675
Speaker 1: quoting him, but those are facts. I left the meeting

747
00:46:56,675 --> 00:47:00,395
Speaker 1: with Griffin that day encouraged, undecided, but also not clear

748
00:47:00,435 --> 00:47:02,755
Speaker 1: on why Zucker was so convinced that this would be

749
00:47:02,795 --> 00:47:07,555
Speaker 1: resolved merely by the endorsement of this Beth Comstock. I

750
00:47:07,635 --> 00:47:10,595
Speaker 1: reiterated this with Griffin when he visited my office again

751
00:47:10,635 --> 00:47:13,315
Speaker 1: about six thirty. Phil said, we were on for a

752
00:47:13,355 --> 00:47:16,155
Speaker 1: meeting tomorrow with Zucker, and I'll let Jeff explain it.

753
00:47:16,195 --> 00:47:17,715
Speaker 1: And I don't know if he'll be this blunt, but

754
00:47:17,755 --> 00:47:21,115
Speaker 1: the essence is Beth Comstock probably dreamt up this deal

755
00:47:21,155 --> 00:47:23,595
Speaker 1: with Fox in the first place, and that's ultimately why

756
00:47:23,795 --> 00:47:26,915
Speaker 1: MLT went along with it, and now she's against the deal,

757
00:47:27,235 --> 00:47:32,675
Speaker 1: and that's why mL will oppose it. I worked the

758
00:47:32,675 --> 00:47:34,835
Speaker 1: next week, kept my mouth shut, and then took almost

759
00:47:34,875 --> 00:47:40,395
Speaker 1: all of July off, and then came dinner with Jeff

760
00:47:40,395 --> 00:47:45,635
Speaker 1: Immelt on July twentieth, a Monday. It was dinner with

761
00:47:45,795 --> 00:47:50,035
Speaker 1: MLT and unexpectedly with another Jeff Zucker. It was in

762
00:47:50,155 --> 00:47:53,635
Speaker 1: Immelt's private dining room at the top of thirty Rock.

763
00:47:54,835 --> 00:47:57,955
Speaker 1: The subject of the meeting, the exact subject, was a

764
00:47:57,995 --> 00:48:01,515
Speaker 1: matter of great anxiety. There were no clues forthcoming from

765
00:48:01,515 --> 00:48:04,275
Speaker 1: Phil Griffin, who was late as six pm that night

766
00:48:04,355 --> 00:48:07,875
Speaker 1: was in my office fretting. I had been in Maadows

767
00:48:07,915 --> 00:48:11,155
Speaker 1: office fretting half an hour earlier. A touch of burlesque

768
00:48:11,155 --> 00:48:13,915
Speaker 1: had been added to the proceedings went Upon my arrival

769
00:48:13,955 --> 00:48:16,915
Speaker 1: at my office at five, I reached down to plug

770
00:48:16,915 --> 00:48:20,395
Speaker 1: in a phone charger, only to hear the seam in

771
00:48:20,475 --> 00:48:24,555
Speaker 1: the seat of my custom Sacks Fifth Avenue suit rip

772
00:48:24,955 --> 00:48:29,595
Speaker 1: cleanly open. I managed to get an intern to go

773
00:48:29,675 --> 00:48:31,995
Speaker 1: back to my apartment Crosstown to get me one of

774
00:48:32,035 --> 00:48:36,555
Speaker 1: my other suits in time for dinner with the Jeffs.

775
00:48:38,795 --> 00:48:43,075
Speaker 1: How did it go from there? Let's just say ripping

776
00:48:43,155 --> 00:48:46,715
Speaker 1: my pants was the highlight of the night. The rest

777
00:48:46,755 --> 00:49:01,115
Speaker 1: of it. Next, I take you back now to July twentieth,

778
00:49:01,195 --> 00:49:03,315
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, and dinner with the chairman of

779
00:49:03,435 --> 00:49:07,515
Speaker 1: GE Jeff Emilt, on the top floor of thirty Rock,

780
00:49:08,155 --> 00:49:10,435
Speaker 1: as he tried to persuade me that I should stop

781
00:49:10,515 --> 00:49:14,955
Speaker 1: criticizing Fox News so it would stop criticizing him, and

782
00:49:15,035 --> 00:49:18,315
Speaker 1: that I should participate in a deal between NBC and

783
00:49:18,435 --> 00:49:22,475
Speaker 1: Fox to decide what news they would cover about each

784
00:49:22,475 --> 00:49:27,555
Speaker 1: other and what news they would not. The amount of

785
00:49:27,755 --> 00:49:31,435
Speaker 1: small talk at this inner with MLT and Jeff Zucker,

786
00:49:31,515 --> 00:49:35,355
Speaker 1: the president of NBC at that point, was exceptional. After

787
00:49:35,435 --> 00:49:38,475
Speaker 1: a question from MLT about what our former host Rita

788
00:49:38,635 --> 00:49:42,235
Speaker 1: Cosby was then doing, and long after the entres had

789
00:49:42,275 --> 00:49:45,235
Speaker 1: been served fully forty five minutes into this Emmelt finally

790
00:49:45,235 --> 00:49:48,115
Speaker 1: and abruptly got to the point. You know, Keith, I've

791
00:49:48,115 --> 00:49:50,315
Speaker 1: never told anybody in the news division what to do

792
00:49:50,515 --> 00:49:54,875
Speaker 1: or say, and I've completely endorsed Jeff and Griff's strategy

793
00:49:54,915 --> 00:49:58,715
Speaker 1: on putting MSNBC on the map. So I'm completely all in.

794
00:49:59,395 --> 00:50:02,315
Speaker 1: I'm a supporter of yours. Do I agree with everything

795
00:50:02,355 --> 00:50:04,835
Speaker 1: you say? I can tell you no effing way, hey,

796
00:50:05,515 --> 00:50:08,275
Speaker 1: he laughed. But I want to win and I think

797
00:50:08,275 --> 00:50:10,235
Speaker 1: that in the end, that's what I get paid to do.

798
00:50:10,315 --> 00:50:13,315
Speaker 1: And I need your thoughtfulness. I need your help because

799
00:50:13,355 --> 00:50:14,995
Speaker 1: I don't really want to tell you what to think

800
00:50:15,155 --> 00:50:17,195
Speaker 1: or to say on the air. That's not the business

801
00:50:17,315 --> 00:50:20,755
Speaker 1: I'm in. We're up against guys that know how to

802
00:50:20,795 --> 00:50:23,675
Speaker 1: play this game, just like you do, just like we do.

803
00:50:24,075 --> 00:50:26,795
Speaker 1: These are tough guys. They bring the company into it,

804
00:50:26,795 --> 00:50:29,395
Speaker 1: which is my responsibility, and I need to kind of

805
00:50:29,435 --> 00:50:32,635
Speaker 1: just be on the same page with you and Jeff

806
00:50:32,635 --> 00:50:36,635
Speaker 1: and phil on ultimately how you deal with that, because

807
00:50:36,635 --> 00:50:39,555
Speaker 1: it's just not good for GE when they go after

808
00:50:39,635 --> 00:50:42,995
Speaker 1: us with lies, you know, the way they play. I

809
00:50:43,075 --> 00:50:45,875
Speaker 1: wanted to have the dinner not to say anything against you,

810
00:50:45,915 --> 00:50:48,155
Speaker 1: because I quite endorse what we've done here and having

811
00:50:48,155 --> 00:50:50,235
Speaker 1: you from eight to nine and trying to win. Like

812
00:50:50,275 --> 00:50:52,435
Speaker 1: I said, I'm all in and I'm never going to

813
00:50:52,515 --> 00:50:55,435
Speaker 1: back down from MSNBC. And I've had some tough phone

814
00:50:55,435 --> 00:50:58,635
Speaker 1: conversations with Rupert on this, but in this recession, I

815
00:50:58,635 --> 00:51:00,355
Speaker 1: can't afford to spend a lot of time on the

816
00:51:00,395 --> 00:51:05,995
Speaker 1: cleanup crew. So my question, and Melt continued to you,

817
00:51:06,835 --> 00:51:09,915
Speaker 1: is this, Can you help, what's the right way to

818
00:51:09,995 --> 00:51:12,515
Speaker 1: think about it? And how can I let you do

819
00:51:12,555 --> 00:51:14,515
Speaker 1: what you need to do without putting the company in

820
00:51:14,555 --> 00:51:18,075
Speaker 1: a pr jungle. That's what I wanted to reach out

821
00:51:18,115 --> 00:51:22,875
Speaker 1: to you about. I told him I was aware and

822
00:51:22,995 --> 00:51:26,355
Speaker 1: grateful for that as I tried to learn this language

823
00:51:26,395 --> 00:51:29,155
Speaker 1: that he spoke, that I was always aware this was

824
00:51:29,195 --> 00:51:32,395
Speaker 1: our collective success. And I told him I seeing them

825
00:51:32,435 --> 00:51:34,755
Speaker 1: all in heavy winds, and this was the one that said,

826
00:51:34,755 --> 00:51:37,635
Speaker 1: oh no, no, there are no heavy winds. It's our

827
00:51:37,755 --> 00:51:41,675
Speaker 1: job to deal with the heavy winds, and I appreciated it.

828
00:51:42,155 --> 00:51:44,235
Speaker 1: I asked him how much detail he would like an

829
00:51:44,235 --> 00:51:46,795
Speaker 1: answer to his question, and I pulled out my five

830
00:51:46,915 --> 00:51:50,635
Speaker 1: scenario note cards and I went into some detail about

831
00:51:50,635 --> 00:51:55,635
Speaker 1: the prospects awaiting us. Immelt and Zucker listened patiently and

832
00:51:55,795 --> 00:51:59,515
Speaker 1: virtually without interruption as I reviewed for about fifteen minutes

833
00:51:59,595 --> 00:52:02,875
Speaker 1: what I saw as the options. Imel did look a

834
00:52:02,875 --> 00:52:05,795
Speaker 1: little dubious when I told him that Urdock's ultimate goal

835
00:52:05,915 --> 00:52:08,355
Speaker 1: was to get me off the air here and that

836
00:52:08,475 --> 00:52:11,275
Speaker 1: only that eventuality would lead him to lose interest in

837
00:52:11,355 --> 00:52:15,475
Speaker 1: continuing to blackmail us or extort us. These words seemed

838
00:52:15,515 --> 00:52:19,115
Speaker 1: to surprise Immelt. Just as I came to my conclusion

839
00:52:19,115 --> 00:52:23,115
Speaker 1: about fighting, getting professional opposition research people, and bringing guns

840
00:52:23,155 --> 00:52:28,115
Speaker 1: to a knife fight, mL finally interjected something, I don't

841
00:52:28,195 --> 00:52:30,315
Speaker 1: disagree with what you've said. I really don't. I think

842
00:52:30,435 --> 00:52:33,115
Speaker 1: free means free. That's what we're supposed to do when

843
00:52:33,115 --> 00:52:35,235
Speaker 1: you own a network. I had this dinner with you

844
00:52:35,275 --> 00:52:37,435
Speaker 1: to ask you a favor, not to tell you what

845
00:52:37,555 --> 00:52:41,515
Speaker 1: to do. Suddenly, I was not certain that anything I

846
00:52:41,555 --> 00:52:44,395
Speaker 1: had said had registered at all with MLT, and if

847
00:52:44,395 --> 00:52:46,315
Speaker 1: he was still expecting me to say yes, I'll do

848
00:52:46,355 --> 00:52:48,235
Speaker 1: what you say, and I'll pretend you did not order

849
00:52:48,275 --> 00:52:51,755
Speaker 1: me to do it. To say, just know that there's

850
00:52:51,755 --> 00:52:55,675
Speaker 1: a bigger context. Know that a NonStop onslaught on ge

851
00:52:55,755 --> 00:52:59,955
Speaker 1: is painful and distracting for me. And I don't want

852
00:52:59,955 --> 00:53:04,515
Speaker 1: to tell you what to do. Immelt here returned to

853
00:53:04,515 --> 00:53:07,515
Speaker 1: a point that Zucker had made several times. I don't

854
00:53:07,515 --> 00:53:09,675
Speaker 1: think you need props on the show anymore. I think

855
00:53:09,675 --> 00:53:11,915
Speaker 1: the show stands on its own two feet, and I

856
00:53:11,915 --> 00:53:14,235
Speaker 1: think you could talk about anything you want between eight

857
00:53:14,235 --> 00:53:16,915
Speaker 1: and nine. Now do I think a hard and fast

858
00:53:16,995 --> 00:53:20,715
Speaker 1: deal can be struck with news Corp, with Murdoch, with Ales?

859
00:53:20,955 --> 00:53:24,235
Speaker 1: I don't. What I ask you is to use perspective

860
00:53:24,715 --> 00:53:29,235
Speaker 1: and judgment when you decide what to talk about. That's

861
00:53:29,275 --> 00:53:31,435
Speaker 1: bigger than just your show, which I think you do.

862
00:53:31,795 --> 00:53:35,715
Speaker 1: But I really don't want to tell you what to say. This,

863
00:53:35,835 --> 00:53:39,715
Speaker 1: of course translated simply as he sure as f wanted

864
00:53:39,715 --> 00:53:42,795
Speaker 1: to tell me what to say. I think we took

865
00:53:42,795 --> 00:53:45,995
Speaker 1: on a task of making MSNBC successful. I signed up

866
00:53:46,035 --> 00:53:48,995
Speaker 1: for it, Jeff signed up for it, Cappus signed up

867
00:53:48,995 --> 00:53:52,195
Speaker 1: for it, Griffin signed up for it. You signed up

868
00:53:52,195 --> 00:53:54,315
Speaker 1: for it. Suddenly I thought he was going to name

869
00:53:54,315 --> 00:53:57,835
Speaker 1: everybody in the building, and I've never effing blinked, and

870
00:53:57,875 --> 00:54:00,075
Speaker 1: I don't know where this thing goes. I don't ever

871
00:54:00,115 --> 00:54:01,395
Speaker 1: want to be in a position where you and I

872
00:54:01,435 --> 00:54:04,715
Speaker 1: are working on cross purposes. Every time that any of

873
00:54:04,755 --> 00:54:08,275
Speaker 1: the newsboys I've ever complained about MSNBC, I've told them

874
00:54:08,315 --> 00:54:11,795
Speaker 1: to shut the f up. My strategy has always been,

875
00:54:11,995 --> 00:54:14,875
Speaker 1: if you can put cable news together with network news,

876
00:54:14,915 --> 00:54:18,355
Speaker 1: you could beat everybody, and so far we are winning.

877
00:54:20,595 --> 00:54:25,155
Speaker 1: By this point, I had heard three remarkable historical revisions.

878
00:54:26,235 --> 00:54:29,355
Speaker 1: Zucker made it clear that mL had threatened his job

879
00:54:29,795 --> 00:54:32,915
Speaker 1: if anybody, and that would include me referenced Fox on

880
00:54:32,955 --> 00:54:36,635
Speaker 1: the Air after the coverage of the death of doctor

881
00:54:36,675 --> 00:54:40,955
Speaker 1: George Tiller, in that he had surely blinked, and he

882
00:54:40,995 --> 00:54:44,515
Speaker 1: had indirectly told me what not to say and asked

883
00:54:44,555 --> 00:54:47,195
Speaker 1: you his defense against the newsboys. When I had pleaded

884
00:54:47,195 --> 00:54:50,235
Speaker 1: to him the previous September that removing Chris Matthews and

885
00:54:50,275 --> 00:54:52,675
Speaker 1: I from the anchor desk over the debates was pure

886
00:54:52,675 --> 00:54:56,995
Speaker 1: capitulation to the Republicans. He had passed my letter directly

887
00:54:57,035 --> 00:55:02,355
Speaker 1: to Zucker, which enraged Zucker. Still, something suggested to me

888
00:55:02,395 --> 00:55:04,355
Speaker 1: that I should hold my tongue and wait to see

889
00:55:04,355 --> 00:55:09,315
Speaker 1: where redrawing of history would lead us. So he resumed,

890
00:55:09,635 --> 00:55:11,395
Speaker 1: I don't want to talk to you formally about it.

891
00:55:11,435 --> 00:55:13,955
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you informally about it and

892
00:55:14,035 --> 00:55:16,955
Speaker 1: ask you to do me a favor. Now, when O'Reilly

893
00:55:17,035 --> 00:55:20,155
Speaker 1: is in the news, when Fox is in the news,

894
00:55:21,035 --> 00:55:23,555
Speaker 1: you probably have to talk about them. I don't know

895
00:55:23,955 --> 00:55:25,875
Speaker 1: how often that is. Is it once a month, is

896
00:55:25,875 --> 00:55:29,355
Speaker 1: it once a day? He cracked himself up at the

897
00:55:29,395 --> 00:55:32,755
Speaker 1: looseness of his own estimates when they become the news.

898
00:55:33,075 --> 00:55:35,115
Speaker 1: I don't know where the deal stands. I just think

899
00:55:35,675 --> 00:55:40,555
Speaker 1: you've become a star. You don't need props anymore. I

900
00:55:40,555 --> 00:55:42,875
Speaker 1: don't want to be your censor. I don't want to

901
00:55:42,875 --> 00:55:45,195
Speaker 1: see MSNBC go backwards. I really don't want to draw

902
00:55:45,195 --> 00:55:47,675
Speaker 1: a line in the sand. I'm just asking you, guys,

903
00:55:48,035 --> 00:55:53,875
Speaker 1: I need your help. His tone here did not suggest

904
00:55:53,915 --> 00:55:56,115
Speaker 1: a threat nor a warning, but in fact a kind

905
00:55:56,155 --> 00:56:00,235
Speaker 1: of earnest wish to have his cake and keep it

906
00:56:00,275 --> 00:56:02,995
Speaker 1: on display under a glass case in the lobby too.

907
00:56:04,755 --> 00:56:07,795
Speaker 1: Immelt included Zucker for one of the first times in

908
00:56:07,835 --> 00:56:11,195
Speaker 1: the whole hour hour and a half. By this point, Jeff,

909
00:56:11,235 --> 00:56:13,435
Speaker 1: I know I've asked you to talk to Fox. I've

910
00:56:13,475 --> 00:56:16,075
Speaker 1: talked to Rupert just to say when it gets effing stupid,

911
00:56:16,115 --> 00:56:18,115
Speaker 1: when I get and Keith, I know you get it

912
00:56:18,195 --> 00:56:20,155
Speaker 1: all the time. When I got to put my family

913
00:56:20,155 --> 00:56:23,195
Speaker 1: in a hotel, then it's just crossed the line. And hey,

914
00:56:23,235 --> 00:56:25,075
Speaker 1: I'm a big boy and I'm in it to win.

915
00:56:25,195 --> 00:56:27,315
Speaker 1: But I guess more than anything else, I just wanted

916
00:56:27,315 --> 00:56:30,915
Speaker 1: to have dinner to ask you a favor. Use your judgment,

917
00:56:31,395 --> 00:56:35,435
Speaker 1: think about the broader context. I don't want to censor you,

918
00:56:35,515 --> 00:56:38,475
Speaker 1: and I won't censor you period, but I want you

919
00:56:38,515 --> 00:56:41,955
Speaker 1: to just use perspective. Isn't that fair? I mean, is

920
00:56:41,955 --> 00:56:44,395
Speaker 1: that too loose? I don't know a better way to

921
00:56:44,395 --> 00:56:46,435
Speaker 1: say it. It's not the last time I'll talk to

922
00:56:46,435 --> 00:56:48,595
Speaker 1: Ales or Rupert, But in the end, I'm for the

923
00:56:48,675 --> 00:56:52,155
Speaker 1: ge team and I'll fight for you guys, and I

924
00:56:52,195 --> 00:56:54,115
Speaker 1: think you know I will. I just need you to

925
00:56:54,235 --> 00:56:59,035
Speaker 1: kind of think it's through. Does that help you or

926
00:56:59,115 --> 00:57:01,355
Speaker 1: hurt you? I mean, when they're in the news, you

927
00:57:01,435 --> 00:57:04,195
Speaker 1: gotta do the news. I wouldn't tell Brian Williams what

928
00:57:04,235 --> 00:57:06,155
Speaker 1: to say. I'm not going to tell you what to say,

929
00:57:06,275 --> 00:57:10,355
Speaker 1: but day after day after day after day, after day.

930
00:57:11,395 --> 00:57:14,835
Speaker 1: It hurts the company, and I need you to know

931
00:57:14,915 --> 00:57:17,235
Speaker 1: that and think about that, and I need to let

932
00:57:17,235 --> 00:57:19,795
Speaker 1: you know that in a way that doesn't tell you

933
00:57:19,875 --> 00:57:24,155
Speaker 1: what to say, but allows you to see a bigger

934
00:57:24,195 --> 00:57:30,715
Speaker 1: perspective here. I asked Himmelt if he thought that whatever

935
00:57:30,795 --> 00:57:33,155
Speaker 1: my response on the air would be would ever be

936
00:57:33,315 --> 00:57:36,435
Speaker 1: sufficient for Fox. Oh, I think you're right about that.

937
00:57:36,675 --> 00:57:38,515
Speaker 1: I don't know that there's ever going to be anything

938
00:57:38,515 --> 00:57:41,675
Speaker 1: that's sufficient for Fox. I would just feel better about

939
00:57:41,755 --> 00:57:44,355
Speaker 1: my responsibility if I've had the conversation with you in

940
00:57:44,395 --> 00:57:48,155
Speaker 1: which I say, use your judgment that keeps the entire

941
00:57:48,235 --> 00:57:52,035
Speaker 1: company in perspective. Do I expect you to be able

942
00:57:52,035 --> 00:57:55,355
Speaker 1: to control what they do? I can't hold you accountable

943
00:57:55,355 --> 00:57:58,115
Speaker 1: for what that. I won't. If O'Reilly gets on TV

944
00:57:58,275 --> 00:58:01,475
Speaker 1: tonight and says Keith Olberman is the worst effing human

945
00:58:01,515 --> 00:58:04,275
Speaker 1: being that's ever lived, and he should die, we should

946
00:58:04,275 --> 00:58:07,795
Speaker 1: all fight back. Can you do a deal with these guys?

947
00:58:07,875 --> 00:58:09,595
Speaker 1: I don't think that much about it, but I don't

948
00:58:09,595 --> 00:58:13,715
Speaker 1: think we can do. I want MSNBC to coward versus Fox.

949
00:58:14,315 --> 00:58:17,115
Speaker 1: I've said to these guys, I'm not a TV person,

950
00:58:17,155 --> 00:58:19,875
Speaker 1: but I'm a student of business when we decided to

951
00:58:19,915 --> 00:58:26,675
Speaker 1: make MSNBC relevant, we studied Fox News. That's it, fam

952
00:58:26,715 --> 00:58:32,755
Speaker 1: My request to you is just be my partner. Suddenly

953
00:58:33,435 --> 00:58:35,235
Speaker 1: I began to feel that I was living out the

954
00:58:35,275 --> 00:58:38,475
Speaker 1: scene from the movie Catch twenty two, in which Buck

955
00:58:38,515 --> 00:58:40,955
Speaker 1: Henry and Martin Balsom is the evil captains who have

956
00:58:40,995 --> 00:58:44,635
Speaker 1: tried to destroy Alan Arkin now offer him a rotation

957
00:58:44,795 --> 00:58:50,275
Speaker 1: Stateside if he will be their friend, be nice to us,

958
00:58:50,315 --> 00:58:52,475
Speaker 1: tell the folks at home, what a great job we're doing.

959
00:58:52,795 --> 00:58:58,595
Speaker 1: Be our friend. Back to reality and immilt as he

960
00:58:58,675 --> 00:59:01,995
Speaker 1: began to sound like Buck Henry and Martin Balsom even more.

961
00:59:02,515 --> 00:59:04,635
Speaker 1: Don't listen to what I say, don't I don't want

962
00:59:04,635 --> 00:59:06,675
Speaker 1: to tell you what to say I can. I think

963
00:59:06,795 --> 00:59:09,355
Speaker 1: free means free. I don't want to change that about you.

964
00:59:09,475 --> 00:59:11,835
Speaker 1: I don't want to change that about MS I would

965
00:59:11,875 --> 00:59:16,555
Speaker 1: never ask Matt Lower or Brian Williams. But where as

966
00:59:16,675 --> 00:59:18,795
Speaker 1: big a hat as you can, That's all I ask.

967
00:59:19,115 --> 00:59:22,275
Speaker 1: Where as big a hat as you can. And if

968
00:59:22,275 --> 00:59:23,755
Speaker 1: you feel like you have to find, you have to

969
00:59:23,795 --> 00:59:25,795
Speaker 1: do what you have to do. And I don't want

970
00:59:25,795 --> 00:59:27,075
Speaker 1: to be on the other side of that one. I

971
00:59:27,115 --> 00:59:30,275
Speaker 1: just don't. In the end, I would like to protect

972
00:59:30,315 --> 00:59:35,435
Speaker 1: your journalistic integrity, probably above all else. But I'm a

973
00:59:35,555 --> 00:59:39,835
Speaker 1: GE guy. I'm responsible for GE and it's investors, and

974
00:59:39,915 --> 00:59:42,115
Speaker 1: I don't want those two things to come into conflict.

975
00:59:42,435 --> 00:59:44,475
Speaker 1: But I'm never going to ask anybody around this place

976
00:59:44,515 --> 00:59:49,635
Speaker 1: to do what they don't want to do. Happily, Zucker

977
00:59:49,755 --> 00:59:52,435
Speaker 1: chimed in. I guess the key message here is be

978
00:59:52,515 --> 00:59:56,155
Speaker 1: responsible and wear that big hat. I don't think anybody

979
00:59:56,155 --> 00:59:58,155
Speaker 1: wants to be in the position of laying out ten

980
00:59:58,195 --> 01:00:02,555
Speaker 1: point rules. It's impossible. And here mlt interrupted to echo impossible,

981
01:00:03,315 --> 01:00:06,195
Speaker 1: Zucker resumed to the degree you can, and I don't

982
01:00:06,195 --> 01:00:07,875
Speaker 1: want your spending your day thinking about it. Just keep

983
01:00:07,875 --> 01:00:11,475
Speaker 1: a balance that takes all this into account. Zucker now

984
01:00:11,515 --> 01:00:14,875
Speaker 1: said something fascinating. I think your biggest concern the last

985
01:00:14,915 --> 01:00:16,475
Speaker 1: two months is that a deal leaks out and this

986
01:00:16,595 --> 01:00:20,115
Speaker 1: damages your credibility. And the message about that is there's

987
01:00:20,115 --> 01:00:22,755
Speaker 1: no deal. You do what you gotta do, so that

988
01:00:22,835 --> 01:00:27,995
Speaker 1: takes the deal off the table. Now Immelt interrupted. I

989
01:00:27,995 --> 01:00:30,395
Speaker 1: don't plan on talking to Roger or Rupert. I know

990
01:00:30,475 --> 01:00:32,995
Speaker 1: these guys, I know him, so I'm not naive about

991
01:00:32,995 --> 01:00:37,955
Speaker 1: the world you're in. I just need your help Zucker blurted,

992
01:00:38,035 --> 01:00:42,955
Speaker 1: there's no deal. Immelt resumed again. I'm all in with you,

993
01:00:43,075 --> 01:00:46,075
Speaker 1: and I'm all in with Jeff, and all I ask

994
01:00:46,235 --> 01:00:48,275
Speaker 1: is that you make your judgment as broad as it

995
01:00:48,315 --> 01:00:51,635
Speaker 1: can be. And I'm not going to pick up the

996
01:00:51,675 --> 01:00:54,275
Speaker 1: phone tomorrow and call Roger Ailes and say I had

997
01:00:54,355 --> 01:00:56,315
Speaker 1: my guy in here last night. Did you have dinner

998
01:00:56,315 --> 01:01:01,315
Speaker 1: with Glenn Beck? I pointed out finally that whatever we

999
01:01:01,315 --> 01:01:03,715
Speaker 1: were talking about, I had to apply it practically, and

1000
01:01:03,715 --> 01:01:06,195
Speaker 1: that this had been a great source of confusion at

1001
01:01:06,235 --> 01:01:09,555
Speaker 1: my level. I asked Himmel if the last few months

1002
01:01:09,595 --> 01:01:13,035
Speaker 1: of voluntary restraint, which I thought was largely unsustainable, and

1003
01:01:13,155 --> 01:01:17,235
Speaker 1: he further had addressed his needs. I think it's been

1004
01:01:17,275 --> 01:01:21,155
Speaker 1: directionally helpful, he said, You're my first responsibility, and whatever

1005
01:01:21,195 --> 01:01:23,835
Speaker 1: I do with Rupert or Roger, I defend my own

1006
01:01:23,955 --> 01:01:28,995
Speaker 1: team first, any person, any business, anywhere. So I think

1007
01:01:28,995 --> 01:01:33,555
Speaker 1: it's been generally helpful. Is there a quantity metric? Maybe

1008
01:01:33,915 --> 01:01:35,955
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know how to measure it or what it means.

1009
01:01:36,115 --> 01:01:37,755
Speaker 1: I'm not going to give you an ultimatum. I'm not

1010
01:01:37,755 --> 01:01:41,355
Speaker 1: going to give you a contract. I don't want to

1011
01:01:41,355 --> 01:01:44,235
Speaker 1: go there. In the end, my appeal to you is

1012
01:01:44,235 --> 01:01:47,435
Speaker 1: as a colleague, not as a boss, and it's just

1013
01:01:47,515 --> 01:01:53,235
Speaker 1: to say I'm responsible for ge help me, help me,

1014
01:01:53,355 --> 01:01:57,315
Speaker 1: help you. If O'Reilly's the news, cover the news. If

1015
01:01:57,315 --> 01:01:59,115
Speaker 1: there's a story that needs to be told about Fox,

1016
01:01:59,235 --> 01:02:02,115
Speaker 1: tell the story. Try not to be gratuitous. I watch

1017
01:02:02,155 --> 01:02:03,835
Speaker 1: your show. I enjoy it, even the days when I

1018
01:02:03,835 --> 01:02:06,235
Speaker 1: get bunches of e mails about it. I think you're

1019
01:02:06,275 --> 01:02:09,395
Speaker 1: a commentator, You're smart, You're edgy. When I look back

1020
01:02:09,435 --> 01:02:11,315
Speaker 1: on Phil Donahue when we were losing a couple of

1021
01:02:11,435 --> 01:02:15,115
Speaker 1: hundred million bucks a year, I'm proud and where we've come.

1022
01:02:15,315 --> 01:02:19,235
Speaker 1: I take personal pride and company pride and where we've come.

1023
01:02:19,755 --> 01:02:21,995
Speaker 1: So I don't ever want to feel this about what

1024
01:02:22,195 --> 01:02:25,155
Speaker 1: you've done. I just don't want to have to defend

1025
01:02:25,235 --> 01:02:28,635
Speaker 1: the company every day. And it's just a fine line

1026
01:02:28,635 --> 01:02:34,315
Speaker 1: that we walk. I just ask for your judgment, your partnership,

1027
01:02:34,675 --> 01:02:37,195
Speaker 1: and your help, but I don't want to do it

1028
01:02:37,195 --> 01:02:39,115
Speaker 1: at the expense of making you feel you're not being

1029
01:02:39,115 --> 01:02:42,155
Speaker 1: as effective as what you need to be for MSNBC

1030
01:02:42,355 --> 01:02:45,275
Speaker 1: to be effective. And if it goes the other way,

1031
01:02:45,315 --> 01:02:47,955
Speaker 1: it goes the other way. But I'd rather have it

1032
01:02:47,995 --> 01:02:51,035
Speaker 1: be because they've been outrageous rather than the other way around.

1033
01:02:51,235 --> 01:02:55,075
Speaker 1: Can they control their guys. I'm not convinced, but I'm

1034
01:02:55,115 --> 01:02:57,035
Speaker 1: only going to worry about us. I'm not a censor.

1035
01:02:57,555 --> 01:03:04,955
Speaker 1: There's no ultimatum. I ask for your help. I told

1036
01:03:05,035 --> 01:03:07,595
Speaker 1: him that under those terms, I could continue to provide

1037
01:03:07,635 --> 01:03:10,155
Speaker 1: my help. My concern, I said, remained whether or not

1038
01:03:10,235 --> 01:03:12,595
Speaker 1: it would provide him with what he felt he needed,

1039
01:03:12,595 --> 01:03:16,035
Speaker 1: and whether it would be satisfactory to him. Let's see,

1040
01:03:16,435 --> 01:03:18,675
Speaker 1: you will never get I will never do anything that

1041
01:03:18,795 --> 01:03:23,035
Speaker 1: surprises you unless you really surprise me first. But I

1042
01:03:23,075 --> 01:03:24,715
Speaker 1: don't want you to walk out of here tonight feeling

1043
01:03:24,755 --> 01:03:28,715
Speaker 1: there's some sort of hidden agenda. I'm a countdown supporter.

1044
01:03:29,355 --> 01:03:32,155
Speaker 1: I want MSNBC to win. I don't want to be

1045
01:03:32,195 --> 01:03:35,915
Speaker 1: a censor. I actually think that's irresponsible and I shouldn't

1046
01:03:35,915 --> 01:03:39,435
Speaker 1: do it. But I'm a GE guy. That's my alpha

1047
01:03:39,515 --> 01:03:46,155
Speaker 1: and omega. I suggested that I was surprisingly corporate my

1048
01:03:46,235 --> 01:03:50,115
Speaker 1: own self. I re recounted for him my adherents, even

1049
01:03:50,155 --> 01:03:53,715
Speaker 1: to Murdoch's proprietorship when I worked for Fox, and my

1050
01:03:53,835 --> 01:03:57,275
Speaker 1: fealty to NBC and GE, and even my guilt for

1051
01:03:57,395 --> 01:04:01,075
Speaker 1: causing such disturbances at the company. When I left MSNBC

1052
01:04:01,155 --> 01:04:03,315
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety eight, but I added that I was

1053
01:04:03,355 --> 01:04:06,035
Speaker 1: still worried about the banana appeals now spread in the

1054
01:04:06,075 --> 01:04:09,035
Speaker 1: path in front of us, particularly what Fox thought they

1055
01:04:09,075 --> 01:04:12,395
Speaker 1: were influencing here, and the likelihood that they would be

1056
01:04:12,395 --> 01:04:16,275
Speaker 1: back for more on either pretext that they were influencing

1057
01:04:16,355 --> 01:04:19,755
Speaker 1: nothing and needed to influence something, or that they were

1058
01:04:19,795 --> 01:04:24,715
Speaker 1: influencing a lot and needed to influence even more MSNBC.

1059
01:04:25,755 --> 01:04:28,275
Speaker 1: He said it was a complete piece of blank seven

1060
01:04:28,355 --> 01:04:30,715
Speaker 1: years ago. It is not today. I was just talking

1061
01:04:30,755 --> 01:04:32,755
Speaker 1: to Barry Diller, who is as shrewd to guys I've

1062
01:04:32,755 --> 01:04:35,595
Speaker 1: ever met in TV, and he raved about it. So

1063
01:04:35,635 --> 01:04:38,155
Speaker 1: I have pride in that I'm not going to back

1064
01:04:38,195 --> 01:04:40,395
Speaker 1: off that. I think what you've done is very hard

1065
01:04:40,475 --> 01:04:42,115
Speaker 1: and it's working, and I think if there can be

1066
01:04:42,155 --> 01:04:46,155
Speaker 1: some kind of detante, fine, if they can't. In the end,

1067
01:04:46,595 --> 01:04:48,275
Speaker 1: I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over it,

1068
01:04:48,315 --> 01:04:51,195
Speaker 1: as long as I feel you trust me, and I

1069
01:04:51,355 --> 01:04:54,995
Speaker 1: trust you that you're going to try to balance and

1070
01:04:55,035 --> 01:04:57,235
Speaker 1: try to have as good a perspective as you can.

1071
01:04:57,755 --> 01:04:59,915
Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. You got to

1072
01:04:59,955 --> 01:05:02,035
Speaker 1: cover what's in your gut. Is the News. If you

1073
01:05:02,155 --> 01:05:05,555
Speaker 1: never mentioned Bill O'Reilly for a month, you're still going

1074
01:05:05,595 --> 01:05:09,155
Speaker 1: to have great viewership. Because your show stands on its own.

1075
01:05:09,915 --> 01:05:15,355
Speaker 1: You don't need gratuitous stuff. I interjected here that the

1076
01:05:15,395 --> 01:05:17,635
Speaker 1: one silver lining of the last two months had been

1077
01:05:17,635 --> 01:05:20,035
Speaker 1: that while I was not sure what percentage reduction in

1078
01:05:20,035 --> 01:05:22,875
Speaker 1: the references to Fox helped the show and what percentage

1079
01:05:22,915 --> 01:05:25,995
Speaker 1: hurt it, it was clear just from a programming point

1080
01:05:25,995 --> 01:05:28,235
Speaker 1: of view, that to some degree less may now indeed

1081
01:05:28,235 --> 01:05:34,395
Speaker 1: be more. Immelt smiled extraordinarily broadly and started to laugh.

1082
01:05:34,755 --> 01:05:37,435
Speaker 1: Let's leave it at that. Let's leave it right there,

1083
01:05:37,515 --> 01:05:40,515
Speaker 1: let's declare success. Let's leave it just as a judgment

1084
01:05:40,595 --> 01:05:42,355
Speaker 1: thing between the two of us, because I don't want

1085
01:05:42,355 --> 01:05:46,435
Speaker 1: to make it any more restrictive than that. Okay, I

1086
01:05:46,515 --> 01:05:48,235
Speaker 1: told him we could try, and that I hoped it

1087
01:05:48,235 --> 01:05:50,555
Speaker 1: would work, but that I would still strongly advise doing

1088
01:05:50,555 --> 01:05:53,435
Speaker 1: opposition research because to me, if this did not get

1089
01:05:53,435 --> 01:05:55,555
Speaker 1: Fox what it wanted, Fox would be back to try

1090
01:05:55,595 --> 01:05:58,875
Speaker 1: something else. I don't disagree with that, and all I

1091
01:05:58,955 --> 01:06:01,595
Speaker 1: need to know is that you've tried on my behalf.

1092
01:06:01,715 --> 01:06:04,875
Speaker 1: Because I don't think there's any formula for this, I'm

1093
01:06:04,915 --> 01:06:07,875
Speaker 1: just never going to have a story written that says

1094
01:06:08,115 --> 01:06:12,235
Speaker 1: I censored, Keith Ulderman, I'm just not going to go there.

1095
01:06:12,515 --> 01:06:16,115
Speaker 1: I think it's dangerous for the network. By and large,

1096
01:06:16,195 --> 01:06:19,035
Speaker 1: what you've done has been I don't know how you'd

1097
01:06:19,075 --> 01:06:22,275
Speaker 1: replay the abortion doctor being killed right. I think it

1098
01:06:22,315 --> 01:06:23,995
Speaker 1: was a tough call because there was a certain extent

1099
01:06:24,275 --> 01:06:26,595
Speaker 1: that was part of the story that one. Despite the

1100
01:06:26,635 --> 01:06:29,075
Speaker 1: fact that it got major blowback when I look at

1101
01:06:29,075 --> 01:06:32,515
Speaker 1: that one, they were part of the story at Fox.

1102
01:06:33,035 --> 01:06:35,515
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure I would handle that any differently, Keith,

1103
01:06:35,515 --> 01:06:38,155
Speaker 1: than what we did. If you can stay away from

1104
01:06:38,155 --> 01:06:41,675
Speaker 1: the gratuitous stuff, make it when there are the news

1105
01:06:41,795 --> 01:06:43,915
Speaker 1: call it out. I don't know if I can ask

1106
01:06:43,995 --> 01:06:46,995
Speaker 1: much more than that. I said we could do that,

1107
01:06:47,755 --> 01:06:50,115
Speaker 1: but I told them they needed to understand that wherever

1108
01:06:50,155 --> 01:06:52,955
Speaker 1: we wound up adjusting the level to whether on a

1109
01:06:52,995 --> 01:06:55,955
Speaker 1: scale or one hundred fourteen was just right or ninety

1110
01:06:55,955 --> 01:06:59,235
Speaker 1: six was just right right. Now we were basically at zero,

1111
01:06:59,515 --> 01:07:03,075
Speaker 1: and there was a definite and palpable fear at MSNBC

1112
01:07:03,795 --> 01:07:07,235
Speaker 1: that doing more than zero would cause a lot of trouble,

1113
01:07:07,275 --> 01:07:09,235
Speaker 1: and many people had to be reassured that we could

1114
01:07:09,315 --> 01:07:13,835
Speaker 1: still do more than zero. The Phil Griffins, the Rachel Maadows,

1115
01:07:13,875 --> 01:07:16,635
Speaker 1: the various producers. I'll take care of that. I'll talk

1116
01:07:16,675 --> 01:07:20,155
Speaker 1: to each of them, Zucker said. I then told about

1117
01:07:20,155 --> 01:07:22,595
Speaker 1: advising Rachel Maddow on how to stay within the spirit

1118
01:07:22,635 --> 01:07:25,435
Speaker 1: of this. While addressing the crazy Fox analyst who had

1119
01:07:25,435 --> 01:07:29,475
Speaker 1: suggested the Taliban might help us by killing an American

1120
01:07:29,515 --> 01:07:31,555
Speaker 1: whom they claimed to have captured, but whom the analyst

1121
01:07:31,635 --> 01:07:35,395
Speaker 1: thought might be a defector. I suggested to Rachel have

1122
01:07:35,515 --> 01:07:38,315
Speaker 1: the video blown up and obscure the Fox logo, just

1123
01:07:38,435 --> 01:07:41,395
Speaker 1: mention on what network the statement had been made, and

1124
01:07:41,435 --> 01:07:46,195
Speaker 1: thus reduced the impact cosmetically. See. I think that's brilliant.

1125
01:07:46,635 --> 01:07:50,155
Speaker 1: Mmelt said, that's fair to do that, that's helpful, Zucker said,

1126
01:07:52,355 --> 01:07:56,195
Speaker 1: in many ways. Iml then said, part of the charm

1127
01:07:56,195 --> 01:08:00,075
Speaker 1: of cable news is this point counterpoint between Fox and MSNBC.

1128
01:08:00,195 --> 01:08:02,475
Speaker 1: That's actually part of the beauty of the whole thing.

1129
01:08:03,115 --> 01:08:11,195
Speaker 1: That beauty can't be disturbed. But I contrast that to Billow.

1130
01:08:11,235 --> 01:08:13,515
Speaker 1: The clown can't be the worst person in the world

1131
01:08:13,555 --> 01:08:16,995
Speaker 1: five nights in a row. You've got to play off them.

1132
01:08:17,035 --> 01:08:18,955
Speaker 1: They're the opposition. That's one of the things that makes

1133
01:08:18,955 --> 01:08:22,715
Speaker 1: it watchable. Do that it's just a matter of judgment

1134
01:08:23,315 --> 01:08:27,835
Speaker 1: and some degree of prioritization, and then we'll see what happens.

1135
01:08:28,235 --> 01:08:33,275
Speaker 1: Doesn't work, then screw it. Jeff Zucker then said, just

1136
01:08:33,315 --> 01:08:38,435
Speaker 1: don't test it tomorrow. We then veered off to baseball.

1137
01:08:38,795 --> 01:08:43,155
Speaker 1: Then five minutes later the dinner concluded. I told Phil

1138
01:08:43,235 --> 01:08:46,715
Speaker 1: Griffin and my agent and my producer and my line

1139
01:08:46,755 --> 01:08:49,915
Speaker 1: producer each was stunned that Zucker had even shown up.

1140
01:08:50,275 --> 01:08:52,755
Speaker 1: It became evident that Immelt was providing both of them

1141
01:08:52,835 --> 01:08:56,035
Speaker 1: cover by rewriting the past, trying to put the toothpaste

1142
01:08:56,075 --> 01:08:57,675
Speaker 1: back into the tube, or at least back to the

1143
01:08:57,715 --> 01:09:00,115
Speaker 1: period when Zucker and I had met the day after

1144
01:09:00,195 --> 01:09:04,435
Speaker 1: Memorial Day. And my line producer summed it perfectly that

1145
01:09:04,475 --> 01:09:07,115
Speaker 1: the last two much with just the MSNBC equivalent of

1146
01:09:07,235 --> 01:09:10,435
Speaker 1: that one season from the TV series Dallas, which was

1147
01:09:10,475 --> 01:09:17,195
Speaker 1: retroactively erased by having it written off as one character's dream.

1148
01:09:17,315 --> 01:09:22,795
Speaker 1: So it was all resolved, I guess. I crossed my fingers.

1149
01:09:22,835 --> 01:09:24,635
Speaker 1: I held my breath that nobody would find out that

1150
01:09:24,755 --> 01:09:26,995
Speaker 1: NBC had made a deal with Fox to decide which

1151
01:09:26,995 --> 01:09:30,035
Speaker 1: each network's news operation would and would not cover. And

1152
01:09:30,115 --> 01:09:32,555
Speaker 1: then on August first, two thousand and nine, while I

1153
01:09:32,595 --> 01:09:35,515
Speaker 1: was on that long vacation, they gave me The New

1154
01:09:35,595 --> 01:09:40,195
Speaker 1: York Times TV reporter who was Brian Stelter did a

1155
01:09:40,235 --> 01:09:45,755
Speaker 1: piece that was headlined Voices from above Silence a cable

1156
01:09:45,875 --> 01:09:52,115
Speaker 1: TV feud. Some idiot at GE had decided to boast

1157
01:09:52,715 --> 01:09:56,995
Speaker 1: about how they and Ales and Murdoch and Beth Comstock

1158
01:09:57,715 --> 01:10:01,915
Speaker 1: and I don't know O'Reilly himself had gotten the childish

1159
01:10:01,955 --> 01:10:05,875
Speaker 1: talent to stop sniping at one another. Let me quote

1160
01:10:05,875 --> 01:10:08,595
Speaker 1: you a little of the Times article. It was a

1161
01:10:08,675 --> 01:10:11,715
Speaker 1: media cage fight televised every weeknight at eight pm, but

1162
01:10:11,755 --> 01:10:14,235
Speaker 1: the match was halted when the blood started to spray

1163
01:10:14,355 --> 01:10:17,635
Speaker 1: executives in the high priced seats in early June. The

1164
01:10:17,715 --> 01:10:20,635
Speaker 1: combat stopped the anchors, for the most part, finding other

1165
01:10:20,675 --> 01:10:24,115
Speaker 1: targets for their verbal missiles. It was time to grow up,

1166
01:10:24,235 --> 01:10:28,635
Speaker 1: one of the company's employees said. The detante, not acknowledged

1167
01:10:28,635 --> 01:10:31,635
Speaker 1: by the parties until now, showcases how a personal and

1168
01:10:31,635 --> 01:10:35,355
Speaker 1: commercial battle between two men could create real consequences for

1169
01:10:35,395 --> 01:10:39,435
Speaker 1: their parent corporations. A GE shareholders meeting, for instance, was

1170
01:10:39,475 --> 01:10:43,195
Speaker 1: overrun by critics of MSNBC and by one of mister

1171
01:10:43,235 --> 01:10:48,475
Speaker 1: O'Reilly's producers. Last April. We all recognize that a certain

1172
01:10:48,555 --> 01:10:51,835
Speaker 1: level of civility needed to be introduced into the public discussion.

1173
01:10:51,955 --> 01:10:55,875
Speaker 1: Gary Scheffer, a spokesman for GE, said this week, we're

1174
01:10:55,915 --> 01:10:59,555
Speaker 1: happy that has happened. The parent companies decided to comment

1175
01:10:59,875 --> 01:11:03,555
Speaker 1: directly on the details of the ceasefire, which was spearheaded

1176
01:11:03,555 --> 01:11:07,635
Speaker 1: by Jeff Zucker, chief executive of NBC Universal, and Gary Ginsberg,

1177
01:11:07,715 --> 01:11:11,275
Speaker 1: an executive vice president who oversees corporate affairs at News Corp.

1178
01:11:11,995 --> 01:11:15,915
Speaker 1: Mister Olderman, who was on vacation, said by email, I

1179
01:11:15,995 --> 01:11:19,635
Speaker 1: am party to no deal, adding that he wouldn't have

1180
01:11:19,675 --> 01:11:23,435
Speaker 1: been included in any conversations between GE and News Corporation.

1181
01:11:24,355 --> 01:11:29,875
Speaker 1: Fox has declined to respond, Needless to say, I went

1182
01:11:29,915 --> 01:11:33,275
Speaker 1: back to management and reiterated what I had told Stelter.

1183
01:11:33,635 --> 01:11:37,355
Speaker 1: I am party to no deal. I swore a lot.

1184
01:11:38,075 --> 01:11:41,035
Speaker 1: I asked why we had gone through that excruciating dinner

1185
01:11:41,555 --> 01:11:44,715
Speaker 1: with Jeff Immelt if somebody was going to boast that

1186
01:11:44,755 --> 01:11:48,155
Speaker 1: they had silenced me anyway, went his entire two hour

1187
01:11:48,315 --> 01:11:55,235
Speaker 1: spiel was I don't want to censor you. Phil Griffin

1188
01:11:55,315 --> 01:11:57,755
Speaker 1: slapped his head a few times. Jeff Zucker said he

1189
01:11:57,755 --> 01:12:00,395
Speaker 1: was ready to kill whoever the GE leaker was and

1190
01:12:00,515 --> 01:12:04,155
Speaker 1: just between ourselves, Matto admitted that we were grateful to

1191
01:12:04,275 --> 01:12:07,195
Speaker 1: whoever had leaked it, since basically it blew up the deal.

1192
01:12:08,675 --> 01:12:12,915
Speaker 1: It wasn't you, was it, she asked me. I fluttered

1193
01:12:12,955 --> 01:12:17,315
Speaker 1: my eyebrows in response. No, but I thought about it.

1194
01:12:18,795 --> 01:12:22,155
Speaker 1: And so six days after the deal was announced, the

1195
01:12:22,235 --> 01:12:27,915
Speaker 1: Washington Post had this from a correspondent named Howard Kurtz.

1196
01:12:28,515 --> 01:12:32,835
Speaker 1: That Howard Kurtz, who now works for Fox News. He

1197
01:12:32,875 --> 01:12:36,955
Speaker 1: wrote Alberman, O'Reilly still fighting, and he added it was

1198
01:12:36,995 --> 01:12:38,955
Speaker 1: never intended to be a ceasefire. The best that the

1199
01:12:38,955 --> 01:12:40,995
Speaker 1: men who run two of the nation's media giants were

1200
01:12:40,995 --> 01:12:43,835
Speaker 1: hoping to achieve was a ratcheting down of the rhetoric

1201
01:12:43,875 --> 01:12:48,195
Speaker 1: between their warring commentators, But Keith Olberman refused to play along.

1202
01:12:48,235 --> 01:12:50,835
Speaker 1: This week, Bill O'Reilly returned fire, and The New York

1203
01:12:50,835 --> 01:12:53,955
Speaker 1: Times got wounded in the crossfire. The piece talks with

1204
01:12:54,075 --> 01:12:57,915
Speaker 1: Fox sparked a fierce battle within MSNBC, where a faction

1205
01:12:57,995 --> 01:13:01,555
Speaker 1: led by Alberman argued that the network's journalistic integrity was

1206
01:13:01,595 --> 01:13:04,355
Speaker 1: at stake and that any leak of a non aggression

1207
01:13:04,395 --> 01:13:08,875
Speaker 1: pack with Fox could damage NBC's reputation for independence. So

1208
01:13:09,995 --> 01:13:12,995
Speaker 1: the next day, Stelter came back with an update in

1209
01:13:13,035 --> 01:13:18,075
Speaker 1: The New York Times at Fox and MSNBC hosts refire

1210
01:13:18,155 --> 01:13:22,395
Speaker 1: the insult machines. Executives at two of the country's largest

1211
01:13:22,435 --> 01:13:24,635
Speaker 1: media companies are still trying to salvage what was essentially

1212
01:13:24,675 --> 01:13:27,715
Speaker 1: a ceasefire between MSNBC and the Fox News Channel. The

1213
01:13:27,715 --> 01:13:30,635
Speaker 1: two cable news channels temporarily resumed their long running feud

1214
01:13:30,675 --> 01:13:32,995
Speaker 1: this week after The New York Times reported that their

1215
01:13:33,035 --> 01:13:35,955
Speaker 1: parent companies, General Electric in the News Corporation, had struck

1216
01:13:35,995 --> 01:13:39,675
Speaker 1: a deal to stop each other's televised personal attacks. Fox

1217
01:13:39,755 --> 01:13:43,275
Speaker 1: News executives felt that MSNBC had broken the DULO when

1218
01:13:43,395 --> 01:13:46,195
Speaker 1: Keith Olverman, an apparent show of independence, insulted his eight

1219
01:13:46,195 --> 01:13:50,475
Speaker 1: PM rival Bill O'Reilly and the News Corporation's chairman Rupert

1220
01:13:50,555 --> 01:13:54,715
Speaker 1: Murdoch on Monday. On his show Countdown, mister Olderman called

1221
01:13:54,755 --> 01:13:59,355
Speaker 1: mister O'Reilly a racist clown. Mister O'Reilly responded with his

1222
01:13:59,355 --> 01:14:02,115
Speaker 1: own attack two days later on his program The O'Reilly Factor,

1223
01:14:02,395 --> 01:14:06,155
Speaker 1: where he claimed that Ge through MSNBC, was promoting the

1224
01:14:06,155 --> 01:14:08,515
Speaker 1: election of Barack Obama and then seeking to profit from

1225
01:14:08,515 --> 01:14:14,635
Speaker 1: his policies. In a statement, Ge said while both companies

1226
01:14:14,635 --> 01:14:17,435
Speaker 1: agreed that the tone should be more civil, no one

1227
01:14:17,475 --> 01:14:22,755
Speaker 1: at GE told anyone at NBC News or MSNBC how

1228
01:14:23,075 --> 01:14:27,755
Speaker 1: to report the news. Some Fox employees said they were

1229
01:14:27,795 --> 01:14:32,075
Speaker 1: told in June and July not to flagrant recriticize General Electric.

1230
01:14:32,675 --> 01:14:34,995
Speaker 1: Fox said in a statement Friday, this has nothing to

1231
01:14:34,995 --> 01:14:37,555
Speaker 1: do with preventing anyone from practicing journalism or interfering with

1232
01:14:37,595 --> 01:14:42,915
Speaker 1: freedom of speech. This is about corporate responsibility. We've never

1233
01:14:42,995 --> 01:14:47,315
Speaker 1: suppressed any stories about NBC or GE. Both organizations are

1234
01:14:47,315 --> 01:14:54,395
Speaker 1: covered as news warrants. Joan Walsh, the editor of Salon

1235
01:14:54,555 --> 01:14:57,435
Speaker 1: dot Com, said Thursday that had appeared that the owners

1236
01:14:57,475 --> 01:15:01,035
Speaker 1: of two large news organizations colluded to make sure their

1237
01:15:01,075 --> 01:15:04,395
Speaker 1: audience got less, not more information, and to promote their

1238
01:15:04,395 --> 01:15:08,155
Speaker 1: business interests, not the public interest. She asked, how is

1239
01:15:08,155 --> 01:15:11,195
Speaker 1: it any different from a media organization making a deal

1240
01:15:11,195 --> 01:15:14,235
Speaker 1: with a politician not to expose a scandal in exchange

1241
01:15:14,235 --> 01:15:16,755
Speaker 1: for a political favor. We'd call that corruption, and I

1242
01:15:16,795 --> 01:15:20,875
Speaker 1: think this is the same thing. Then it was the

1243
01:15:20,915 --> 01:15:24,315
Speaker 1: Associated Press chiming in with a story. Ulderman, for his part,

1244
01:15:24,355 --> 01:15:26,835
Speaker 1: has named O'Reilly one of his worst persons in the

1245
01:15:26,875 --> 01:15:30,795
Speaker 1: world three times in the seven shows he's done since

1246
01:15:30,915 --> 01:15:35,555
Speaker 1: report of the supposed truce. Yeah, I did. He condemned

1247
01:15:35,555 --> 01:15:38,035
Speaker 1: O'Reilly on Monday for spending too much time talking about

1248
01:15:38,035 --> 01:15:42,715
Speaker 1: O'Reilly's own ratings quote. As a reporter, I wouldn't send

1249
01:15:42,795 --> 01:15:48,635
Speaker 1: Bill O'Reilly to cover a John overflowing Ulderman said, and

1250
01:15:48,715 --> 01:15:52,875
Speaker 1: so on and so on and so on. This unholy

1251
01:15:52,955 --> 01:15:56,875
Speaker 1: deal had blown up. Zooker and Griffin and Immelt never

1252
01:15:56,955 --> 01:16:00,515
Speaker 1: again tried to contain my Fox coverage if the deal

1253
01:16:00,555 --> 01:16:02,715
Speaker 1: had not blown up, and I later found out that

1254
01:16:02,755 --> 01:16:06,555
Speaker 1: the leaker was some almost anonymous midlevel executive at GE

1255
01:16:06,555 --> 01:16:09,035
Speaker 1: who thought he was scoring brownie points with the chairman,

1256
01:16:09,115 --> 01:16:11,595
Speaker 1: Jeff Mmelt. If it hadn't blown up, I would have

1257
01:16:11,675 --> 01:16:14,995
Speaker 1: left MSNBC a year and a half earlier than I did.

1258
01:16:16,155 --> 01:16:20,035
Speaker 1: MSNBC had become the leading voice trying to prove what

1259
01:16:20,235 --> 01:16:23,955
Speaker 1: these two rounds of Murdoch and Tucker, Carlson and Ingram

1260
01:16:23,955 --> 01:16:27,355
Speaker 1: and Hannity texts and testimony just proved again that Fox

1261
01:16:27,395 --> 01:16:31,195
Speaker 1: News is not news, that it's not honest, that it's

1262
01:16:31,195 --> 01:16:35,915
Speaker 1: not defensible. MSNBC had seen in two thousand and nine

1263
01:16:35,995 --> 01:16:40,915
Speaker 1: its owners negotiate away its rights to do that, its

1264
01:16:40,995 --> 01:16:44,435
Speaker 1: rights to point accurately at a wolf in sheep's clothing

1265
01:16:44,435 --> 01:16:47,955
Speaker 1: and say this Fox operation is a danger to this country.

1266
01:16:48,475 --> 01:16:52,315
Speaker 1: And then MSNBC had seen its owners blow up the

1267
01:16:52,355 --> 01:16:58,435
Speaker 1: deal because they boasted about it. It was about this point,

1268
01:16:59,115 --> 01:17:01,035
Speaker 1: end of summer two thousand and nine, that a new

1269
01:17:01,155 --> 01:17:04,995
Speaker 1: strategy developed at NBC relative to Fox. Let's not get

1270
01:17:05,115 --> 01:17:08,555
Speaker 1: rid of the anti Fox news coverage. Let's get rid

1271
01:17:08,595 --> 01:17:12,955
Speaker 1: of the guy doing the anti Fox News coverage. They

1272
01:17:12,995 --> 01:17:16,395
Speaker 1: couldn't fire me, as Immelt said, I had turned the

1273
01:17:16,435 --> 01:17:20,595
Speaker 1: place from a disastrous fire pit burning ge dollars at

1274
01:17:20,675 --> 01:17:22,955
Speaker 1: least one hundred or two hundred million a year, he

1275
01:17:22,995 --> 01:17:26,035
Speaker 1: had said, turned it into a profit center that was

1276
01:17:26,075 --> 01:17:30,075
Speaker 1: actually greater than NBC News per se. But what they

1277
01:17:30,075 --> 01:17:32,235
Speaker 1: could do was to make the whole experience more and

1278
01:17:32,355 --> 01:17:35,955
Speaker 1: more unhappy for me, to take away my spot as

1279
01:17:35,955 --> 01:17:38,315
Speaker 1: the co host of the football pregame show Sunday nights

1280
01:17:38,355 --> 01:17:40,955
Speaker 1: on NBC, which I did just because it was such

1281
01:17:40,955 --> 01:17:43,915
Speaker 1: a nice break from politics all the time. Then they

1282
01:17:43,995 --> 01:17:47,515
Speaker 1: moved my favorite producers off my show to go and

1283
01:17:47,595 --> 01:17:51,395
Speaker 1: launch Lawrence O'Donnell's show, And they installed an entirely new

1284
01:17:51,435 --> 01:17:53,675
Speaker 1: management team on Countdown that was devising a way to

1285
01:17:53,715 --> 01:17:58,595
Speaker 1: bring in more Republican guests and alternative voices, on the

1286
01:17:58,595 --> 01:18:01,435
Speaker 1: pretext that it would freshen up the format of the

1287
01:18:01,515 --> 01:18:07,235
Speaker 1: program find as I have also mentioned here at greater length.

1288
01:18:07,275 --> 01:18:10,555
Speaker 1: In November twenty ten, they suspended me for making donations

1289
01:18:10,595 --> 01:18:14,235
Speaker 1: to three Democratic candidates at the end of their campaigns.

1290
01:18:14,835 --> 01:18:17,875
Speaker 1: All three had been subjected to extensive death threats and

1291
01:18:17,915 --> 01:18:22,275
Speaker 1: were broke. One of them was Gabby Gifford's The Night

1292
01:18:22,395 --> 01:18:25,155
Speaker 1: the Story of My suspension, or actually the story of

1293
01:18:25,155 --> 01:18:28,795
Speaker 1: my donation broke. The president of MSNBC and I worked

1294
01:18:28,795 --> 01:18:30,955
Speaker 1: out a quick statement and I volunteered to stop making

1295
01:18:30,995 --> 01:18:33,955
Speaker 1: any further donations, even though I was under no obligation

1296
01:18:34,035 --> 01:18:37,795
Speaker 1: to not donate. By the next morning, the president of

1297
01:18:37,915 --> 01:18:41,235
Speaker 1: NBC News had overruled the president of MSNBC, and he

1298
01:18:41,315 --> 01:18:45,195
Speaker 1: suspended me indefinitely without pay because he claimed I had

1299
01:18:45,275 --> 01:18:50,315
Speaker 1: violated the NBC Employee's handbook. That's when somebody illegal pointed

1300
01:18:50,315 --> 01:18:53,195
Speaker 1: out to him that my contract had been specifically written

1301
01:18:53,275 --> 01:18:57,795
Speaker 1: by NBC to emphasize that I was not an NBC

1302
01:18:57,835 --> 01:19:01,915
Speaker 1: News employee. Because that way they didn't act to pay

1303
01:19:01,955 --> 01:19:07,355
Speaker 1: me dental or medical or insurance. Seriously said it in

1304
01:19:07,395 --> 01:19:12,035
Speaker 1: the contract, not an employee of NBC News. So after

1305
01:19:12,075 --> 01:19:13,715
Speaker 1: that I was back at work two days later, but

1306
01:19:13,755 --> 01:19:17,635
Speaker 1: the damage was done and final and irrevocable, and NBC's

1307
01:19:17,675 --> 01:19:20,475
Speaker 1: lawyers were already negotiating how to resolve the fact that

1308
01:19:20,515 --> 01:19:24,675
Speaker 1: they had just breached my contract. I was already negotiating

1309
01:19:24,675 --> 01:19:28,355
Speaker 1: with Al Gore, who, hours after my suspension had been announced,

1310
01:19:28,675 --> 01:19:30,475
Speaker 1: had called me and offered me the moon if I

1311
01:19:30,515 --> 01:19:33,915
Speaker 1: would bring countdown to his little network, Current TV. In retrospect,

1312
01:19:33,955 --> 01:19:35,875
Speaker 1: I should not have gone to work for Current TV.

1313
01:19:36,475 --> 01:19:39,195
Speaker 1: His business partner was merely trying to inflate the value

1314
01:19:39,195 --> 01:19:41,435
Speaker 1: of the network before they sold it to Al Jazeera.

1315
01:19:42,435 --> 01:19:45,275
Speaker 1: But I saw what NBC was doing and what it

1316
01:19:45,355 --> 01:19:47,035
Speaker 1: was going to do in the remaining twenty two months

1317
01:19:47,035 --> 01:19:49,955
Speaker 1: of my contract, and I figured I could cash out

1318
01:19:50,395 --> 01:19:53,915
Speaker 1: and should, or in twenty two months they would take

1319
01:19:53,915 --> 01:20:00,195
Speaker 1: some revenge against me. So I left. MSNBC never completely

1320
01:20:00,195 --> 01:20:04,075
Speaker 1: got out of the criticizing Fox game, but any real

1321
01:20:04,195 --> 01:20:07,915
Speaker 1: impact of what it did left with me and at Fox.

1322
01:20:08,035 --> 01:20:11,115
Speaker 1: Roger Ales told his people that he had defeated MSNBC

1323
01:20:11,275 --> 01:20:14,435
Speaker 1: and NBC and they were now free to go harder

1324
01:20:14,555 --> 01:20:17,275
Speaker 1: on the things he believed Fox News was designed to attack, like,

1325
01:20:17,355 --> 01:20:21,475
Speaker 1: you know, minorities and women and taxes for the rich

1326
01:20:21,555 --> 01:20:26,275
Speaker 1: and democrats and democracy. And so since twenty eleven, there

1327
01:20:26,275 --> 01:20:30,315
Speaker 1: has not been any organization operating at or near Fox's level,

1328
01:20:30,675 --> 01:20:35,035
Speaker 1: and certainly not in Fox's sphere acting as a counterbalance

1329
01:20:35,115 --> 01:20:39,155
Speaker 1: two Fox. Like twenty sixteen, we all saw what that meant.

1330
01:20:39,995 --> 01:20:43,195
Speaker 1: Fox could advocate with a straight face for a manifestly

1331
01:20:43,275 --> 01:20:47,035
Speaker 1: insane individual and help him in his quest to become

1332
01:20:47,115 --> 01:20:50,995
Speaker 1: President of the United States. Bill O'Reilly was eventually fired

1333
01:20:50,995 --> 01:20:54,555
Speaker 1: because of women. Ales was eventually fired because of women,

1334
01:20:55,275 --> 01:20:57,755
Speaker 1: And of course I didn't mean by that because of

1335
01:20:57,835 --> 01:21:01,955
Speaker 1: the women they abused. It didn't matter. The skivy little

1336
01:21:01,995 --> 01:21:05,235
Speaker 1: producer who did much of O'Reilly's dirty work for him

1337
01:21:04,395 --> 01:21:08,475
Speaker 1: in chasing Jeff immelt around at the stockholders meeting. He

1338
01:21:08,675 --> 01:21:11,235
Speaker 1: was named Jesse Waters, and he now kicks off primetime

1339
01:21:11,235 --> 01:21:14,275
Speaker 1: for Fox, and he's about twice as dumb as O'Reilly was.

1340
01:21:15,195 --> 01:21:19,355
Speaker 1: O'Reilly's substitute host back then was Laura Ingram. She's on

1341
01:21:19,635 --> 01:21:26,235
Speaker 1: at ten o'clock every night. Now Hannity abides management all

1342
01:21:26,235 --> 01:21:29,795
Speaker 1: of it, trained by Ales, still behaves as if he

1343
01:21:30,035 --> 01:21:33,835
Speaker 1: is watching them and guiding them from hell. And at

1344
01:21:33,835 --> 01:21:36,875
Speaker 1: eight pm they have finally found somebody who's actually worse

1345
01:21:36,915 --> 01:21:40,235
Speaker 1: than Bill O'Reilly, a man who, unlike Billow, has never

1346
01:21:40,275 --> 01:21:43,315
Speaker 1: worried for one second whether he was saying and selling

1347
01:21:43,875 --> 01:21:47,555
Speaker 1: things that were too absurd to be taken seriously. O'Reilly

1348
01:21:47,635 --> 01:21:53,515
Speaker 1: had feelings to hurt Tucker Carlson does not, And somehow,

1349
01:21:54,115 --> 01:21:56,875
Speaker 1: at the age of ninety one, Rupert Murdoch goes on

1350
01:21:56,995 --> 01:22:01,315
Speaker 1: and on his channel went from saying society was unfairly

1351
01:22:01,395 --> 01:22:04,835
Speaker 1: rigged for the benefit of liberals to letting others say, Oh,

1352
01:22:04,835 --> 01:22:07,995
Speaker 1: it's the elections that are rigged, and democracy is a

1353
01:22:07,995 --> 01:22:11,435
Speaker 1: fraud and the ends justify the means, and Trump must

1354
01:22:11,435 --> 01:22:15,715
Speaker 1: be reinstated. While Rupert Murdoch sat back and watched and

1355
01:22:15,915 --> 01:22:18,995
Speaker 1: could have stopped it and chose not to and instead

1356
01:22:19,075 --> 01:22:26,395
Speaker 1: just sat around catching counting the money. One might hope

1357
01:22:26,395 --> 01:22:29,755
Speaker 1: these dominion revelations and the trial that is expected to

1358
01:22:29,755 --> 01:22:32,755
Speaker 1: come in April might finish off Murdoch and Fox News.

1359
01:22:32,995 --> 01:22:38,595
Speaker 1: I would think that is unlikely. During Trump's campaign, Rupert

1360
01:22:38,675 --> 01:22:41,675
Speaker 1: provided Trump's son in law and senior advisor Jared Kushner

1361
01:22:41,955 --> 01:22:46,755
Speaker 1: with Fox confidential information about Biden's ads, providing Kushner a

1362
01:22:46,835 --> 01:22:51,995
Speaker 1: preview of Biden's ads before they were public. If anybody

1363
01:22:52,075 --> 01:22:55,795
Speaker 1: at an actual news organization had done that, they would

1364
01:22:55,795 --> 01:22:58,955
Speaker 1: wind up in jail or at least banned from the

1365
01:22:59,035 --> 01:23:04,035
Speaker 1: industry for the rest of their natural life. Problem is,

1366
01:23:05,195 --> 01:23:10,395
Speaker 1: even if that were somehow to happen, Lachlan Murdoch is

1367
01:23:10,435 --> 01:23:13,995
Speaker 1: only fifty one, and he appears to be an even

1368
01:23:14,075 --> 01:23:31,435
Speaker 1: bigger scent of a bitch than dear old Dad. Thank

1369
01:23:31,475 --> 01:23:33,595
Speaker 1: you for listening. I'm just figured since I went through

1370
01:23:33,635 --> 01:23:35,955
Speaker 1: so much of this crap and had documented so much

1371
01:23:35,955 --> 01:23:38,835
Speaker 1: of that crap, it was worth it to go long

1372
01:23:38,915 --> 01:23:42,315
Speaker 1: on this. Back to the regular format tomorrow. Here are

1373
01:23:42,355 --> 01:23:44,675
Speaker 1: the credits. Most of the music arranged, produced and performed

1374
01:23:44,675 --> 01:23:46,675
Speaker 1: by Brian Ray and John Philip Chanelle, who are the

1375
01:23:46,675 --> 01:23:50,755
Speaker 1: Countdown musical directors. Produced by t Ko Brothers. All orchestration

1376
01:23:50,795 --> 01:23:54,195
Speaker 1: and keyboards by John Philip Channel guitarist Bassed and drums

1377
01:23:54,195 --> 01:23:57,355
Speaker 1: by Brian Ray. Other beetom and selections have been arranged

1378
01:23:57,395 --> 01:24:00,795
Speaker 1: and performed by No Horns allowed. The sports music when

1379
01:24:00,795 --> 01:24:03,075
Speaker 1: we play It is the Old Woman theme from ESPN two.

1380
01:24:03,395 --> 01:24:06,395
Speaker 1: It was written by Mitch Warren Davis Curtisy ESPN Inc.

1381
01:24:06,835 --> 01:24:10,235
Speaker 1: Musical comments by Nancy Faust, the best baseball stadium organist ever.

1382
01:24:10,795 --> 01:24:14,195
Speaker 1: Everything else is pretty much my fault, except the parts

1383
01:24:14,195 --> 01:24:16,875
Speaker 1: that were Jeff Immelts. So that's countdown for this, the

1384
01:24:16,955 --> 01:24:19,875
Speaker 1: seven and eighty fourth day since Donald Trump's first attempted

1385
01:24:19,915 --> 01:24:22,475
Speaker 1: coup against the democratically elected government of the United States.

1386
01:24:22,995 --> 01:24:26,795
Speaker 1: Arrest him now while we still can. The next schedule

1387
01:24:26,835 --> 01:24:29,595
Speaker 1: countdown is tomorrow, and until then, I'm Keith Olderman. Good morning,

1388
01:24:29,635 --> 01:24:56,555
Speaker 1: good afternoon, goodnight, and good luck. Countdown with Keith Olderman

1389
01:24:56,715 --> 01:25:01,195
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

1390
01:25:01,355 --> 01:25:05,115
Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or We're wherever you

1391
01:25:05,155 --> 01:25:06,315
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.