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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Boohoo, an OnlyFans model, sobs and then brings a pig

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Speaker 2: carcass knife throwing video to her murder.

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Speaker 3: Trial hearing in court. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us. Did a beautiful only

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Speaker 3: fans model turned killer accused of stabbing her boyfriend to

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Speaker 3: death in their shared luxury high rise condo?

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Speaker 1: Why is everything about clinny?

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Speaker 3: Whenever you hear about this case, you never hear about

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Speaker 3: the dead person, the murder victim, according to the state,

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Speaker 3: stabbed dead. All I see wherever this case is covered

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Speaker 3: are shots of her, usually scantily clothed. Of course, she's

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Speaker 3: an OnlyFans model, But I'm talking about murder.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Let's get a little reality check. Listen,

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Speaker 1: ma'am looking to me. You need to stop stimming on

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Speaker 1: the iron. Give me the.

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Speaker 4: One taking my arm?

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Speaker 1: What is the address?

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Speaker 5: What come?

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Speaker 3: Do you hear the victim, Christian saying I can't feel

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Speaker 3: my arm. I'm going to die. I can't feel my arm.

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Speaker 3: I can't feel my arm. Those are some of the

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Speaker 3: last words he ever utters. And now his mother and father,

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Speaker 3: his family has to hear that nine to one one

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Speaker 3: call over and over again. And let me advise you,

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Speaker 3: this is not the first time the only Fans model

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Speaker 3: has attacked her living boyfriend, a cryptocurrency trader. With me

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Speaker 3: an all star panel to make sense of what we

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Speaker 3: know right now? And yes, I know that in domestic

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Speaker 3: homicide very rarely is the woman the aggressor.

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Speaker 1: Well, this turns that on its ear straight.

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Speaker 3: Out to special guests joining us today, Robert Crispin, private

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Speaker 3: investigator with Crispin Special Investigations, specifically former Federal Task Force

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Speaker 3: officer for the US Department of Justice DEA in Miami,

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Speaker 3: this jurisdiction, Robert, thank you for being with us. You

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Speaker 3: are outside the scene of the murder. Tell me about

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Speaker 3: that building. I mean I was told it's a luxury

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Speaker 3: high rise that charges thousands of dollars a month that

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Speaker 3: has never had to say, a domestic violence case, much

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Speaker 3: less a domestic.

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Speaker 1: Murder in it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean it's known as the one Paricio Building.

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Speaker 6: As fifty three stories tall, it's got two hundred and

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Speaker 6: fifty seven units on it. It's very secure, it has

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Speaker 6: sprawling views of all of Miami.

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Speaker 7: It's the in place to be on the.

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Speaker 6: Who's Who If you want to be seen and you

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Speaker 6: want to you want to come to a luxury place.

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Speaker 7: This is it.

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Speaker 6: It's about twelve grand to run a place here. You

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Speaker 6: go a little bit higher, it's a little.

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Speaker 7: Bit more money.

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Speaker 6: But you're not getting in this place. If you're going

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Speaker 6: to get hurt, you're going to get killed. It's somebody,

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Speaker 6: you know. They've got security at the front, they've got

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Speaker 6: a front bellman. You get into an elevator, you have

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Speaker 6: to have a code, a keyfob. It's just not happening.

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Speaker 6: But this is the end place.

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Speaker 1: Here, guys.

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Speaker 3: It may be the in place where who's who lives

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Speaker 3: at twelve grand a month, but this is what went

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Speaker 3: down in the luxury high rise.

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Speaker 1: You think the neighbors knew what was going on along?

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Speaker 3: What did they hear? What did they know? And they

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Speaker 3: did nothing? And now Christian is dead.

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Speaker 8: Listen, no no, no, no, no, no no, no, maybe come here.

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Speaker 3: Just what's so extremely upsetting to me is this could

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Speaker 3: have been avoided. You've got this only fans model with

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Speaker 3: up to two million followers, and then you have her boyfriend,

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Speaker 3: cryptocurrency trader Christian.

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Speaker 1: Now he's dead.

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Speaker 3: There's no way this was not foreseeable as a matter

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Speaker 3: of fact, I want you to look and listen to

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Speaker 3: as painful as it is. And a Joey's gonna see

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Speaker 3: this too. I guarantee you this occurred before the murder,

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Speaker 3: all right, And you got to ask yourself how many

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Speaker 3: times does the victim get beaten before they set up

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Speaker 3: a camera?

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Speaker 1: Now watch this sober for two weeks.

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Speaker 9: I mean, let leggo, let them come on.

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Speaker 3: I'll shew, he's look.

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Speaker 1: They fed up. We're gonna listening more. Okay, there's so

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Speaker 1: much more of that.

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Speaker 3: Never once do we see him lay hand on her.

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Speaker 3: And this is what I don't get. Let me go

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Speaker 3: back to you, Robert Crispin joining us in front of

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Speaker 3: this luxury high rise where the murder went down. Robert Crispin,

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Speaker 3: there is no way these tony neighbors did not know

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Speaker 3: what was going on. They had to hear something in

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Speaker 3: the weeks the months preceding the murder, but.

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Speaker 1: They did nothing.

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Speaker 3: I mean is see no evil, hear no evil, speak

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Speaker 3: no evil. And now this young man twenty seven. You know, Crispin,

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Speaker 3: my children have just turned seventeen. When they get out

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Speaker 3: of college or grad school, God willing, whatever they do,

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Speaker 3: and they find a girlfriend or a boyfriend, and then

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, I get the call they're dead,

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Speaker 3: and everybody knew what was happening, and nobody did anything.

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Speaker 6: I don't get it, so I will tell you and

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Speaker 6: answer you that there were other complaints of them fighting

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Speaker 6: from two floors above the twenty second floor to two

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Speaker 6: floors below the twenty second floor, which were reported prior

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Speaker 6: to all of this happening. And one resident was even

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Speaker 6: the recipient of a tiger panther frame picture that was

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Speaker 6: tossed out of the window, off the balcony out of

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Speaker 6: their apartment and landed a couple floors down on another

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Speaker 6: resident's balcony. He ended up being the recipient of that Soccuy.

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Speaker 3: Did I wonder where that came from? Look at the

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Speaker 3: video right now? Gee, a tiger print frame. I wonder

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Speaker 3: who that belonged to. Okay, how did a tiger print

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Speaker 3: frame crispin land on somebody's balcony?

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Speaker 6: Well, I could only assume that it was thrown out

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Speaker 6: the window and the wind grabbed it and brought it

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Speaker 6: to somebody else's balcony down below. I'm told by residents

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Speaker 6: that it came from their apartment.

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Speaker 3: So let me understands you're saying that neighbors two floors

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Speaker 3: up and two floors down could hear, yes, her beating

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Speaker 3: on him and the wild arguments.

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Speaker 7: Absolutely, and it was even reported to security.

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Speaker 6: There's a matter of fact, Security also called law enforcement

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Speaker 6: on other occasions about the domestics and.

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Speaker 1: What became of that. Robert Crispin.

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Speaker 6: So, if you watch the bodycam footage from the Miami

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Speaker 6: Police Department, she meets them in the lobby and all

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Speaker 6: she wants to do is take a restrain order against him.

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Speaker 6: She wants them out, but she leaves it right there,

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Speaker 6: and they said.

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Speaker 1: That no, no, no, that is not exactly what happened. Crispin.

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Speaker 3: Yes, an occasion, a prior occasion, she Clinty, the only

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Speaker 3: fans model, did.

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Speaker 1: Meet police in the lobby.

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Speaker 3: You're correct, she did speak to them about a tro

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Speaker 3: temporary restraining order.

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Speaker 1: But isn't it true she said as she was.

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Speaker 3: Speaking to them, Yeah, I want to get one before

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Speaker 3: he does.

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Speaker 1: She wanted to get the TRO first. It was all

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Speaker 1: a ploy. It was her.

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Speaker 3: Maneuvering and playing everybody.

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Speaker 7: She did.

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Speaker 6: She even asked law enforcement, is he on his way

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Speaker 6: down there? And the road guys said we shouldn't even

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Speaker 6: know what he looks like. So how do we even

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Speaker 6: know if he's on his way down there? So she

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Speaker 6: wanted to beat him to the courthouse to get that

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Speaker 6: restraining order.

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Speaker 1: Robert Crispin.

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Speaker 3: As a matter of fact, I've got the video of

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Speaker 3: what you're talking about.

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Speaker 7: Now.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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Speaker 3: This is from a prior event before the murder, where

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Speaker 3: she was beating on him again and police came, what's this?

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Speaker 1: I want a restraining order against? Can I do that?

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Speaker 1: Means myself first? Because I know him and he would

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Speaker 1: do it.

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Speaker 9: How can I make myself first?

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Speaker 7: We don't even know how it looks like.

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Speaker 10: Who is How do we know that?

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Speaker 1: Does she ever wear a shirt? Just curious?

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Speaker 3: That's said straight out to Alexis Terescha joining me Crime

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Speaker 3: Online dot Com investigative reporter Alexis, So, did you see

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Speaker 3: the video I just played where she is perfectly done.

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Speaker 3: She has not been in any sort of a physical altercation.

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Speaker 3: Let me rephrase that correction, she has not been attacked.

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Speaker 3: Let's see that video control room if you don't mind

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Speaker 3: real quick, don't need to hear the sound again. Look

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Speaker 3: at her, every extension is perfectly on her head.

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Speaker 1: She's wearing a necklace.

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Speaker 3: Her nails are perfect, she's not bleeding, no scratches, no bruises,

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Speaker 3: Her top is on a miracle her everything's fine. She's

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Speaker 3: even wearing makeup with false eyelashes Emma Scara. And she's

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Speaker 3: asking for a tro and quizzing the cops, who apparently

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Speaker 3: are fans, about how she can quote, make myself first

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Speaker 3: and take a tro.

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Speaker 1: Out on him before he can do it on her.

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Speaker 3: He's the victim, and she's trying to out smart the

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Speaker 3: cops and the system.

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Speaker 1: Alexis and this is a pattern with her.

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Speaker 11: They were constantly involved in problems with the police. Every

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Speaker 11: place that they lived, the police were called, they were fighting,

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Speaker 11: and she appeared drunk at all times, is what neighbors

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Speaker 11: would say. They said, we would see her in the

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Speaker 11: middle of the day walking her dogs drunk. He said

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Speaker 11: that she was incoherent. They couldn't understand what she was saying.

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Speaker 11: They were like, it's the middle of the day, what's

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Speaker 11: going on, Why are you like this? Every time they

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Speaker 11: saw her, she was drunk, And they said they would

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Speaker 11: see him with her, and he would if somebody she

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Speaker 11: was screaming, yelling, and they would approach and say, hey,

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Speaker 11: what's going on? And he was never reacting, he was

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Speaker 11: never hitting her. He would just say, I'm so sorry,

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Speaker 11: I'm just trying to get her inside the house.

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Speaker 1: So sorry.

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Speaker 3: It was never That's interesting, as Chuck, because that's exactly

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Speaker 3: what we're seeing in this prior bodycam video, the one.

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Speaker 1: If I could get the control room to show the video,

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Speaker 1: let's hear some more of it.

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Speaker 3: This preceded the murder, and I guarantee you the jury

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Speaker 3: is going to see it. It will be a called

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Speaker 3: it will be what it's called a similar transaction. Why

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Speaker 3: are they allowed Greg Morris joining me high profile lawyer

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Speaker 3: partner at King Morse. In the Florida jurisdiction, a similar

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Speaker 3: transaction is used.

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Speaker 1: It is not the case in chief.

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Speaker 3: It's a prior incident, typically brought on by the state

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Speaker 3: to show motive, mo modus operandi, method of operation, course

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Speaker 3: of conduct, frame of mind, and many other points to

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Speaker 3: bring a similar transaction. A judge, here's a motion in leimony,

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Speaker 3: which is a motion prior to it coming into evidence,

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Speaker 3: so the jury won't be tainted if it's disallowed, and

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Speaker 3: determines is it similar enough and within the time period.

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Speaker 1: That is relevant?

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Speaker 3: And what does it prove this video, this prior video

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Speaker 3: is worth a million words.

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Speaker 1: Mores.

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Speaker 10: It's coming in and it is in Florida's William's rule.

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Speaker 9: It's a federal rule of evidence four or four B.

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Speaker 9: Basically the information of modus operendi to show intent lack

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Speaker 9: of mistake. It just can't be used to show bad character,

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Speaker 9: meaning because you got into a fight before you did

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Speaker 9: it again the second time. But I think these videos

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Speaker 9: actually helped the defense of Clenny from.

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Speaker 1: Oh Dear Little Well, how does the video help the defense?

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Speaker 9: Well, because what you see is one It looks like

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Speaker 9: the video you just showed was set up, meaning a camera.

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Speaker 10: Was placial aboutout it.

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Speaker 9: And what I noticed from all the videos, especially the

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Speaker 9: elevator video, differently than he was in the elevator he

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Speaker 9: hit her in the elevator video, he laughed at her,

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Speaker 9: the classic signs of an abuser. So we see a

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Speaker 9: divergence in how Christian acts when he sets up a camera.

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Speaker 1: I'm watching the elevator video right now. He's not hitting her,

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Speaker 1: She's hitting him. She is I agree more to have

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Speaker 1: the sky is blue.

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Speaker 3: You'll tell me it's red, and you think I'm gonna

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Speaker 3: believe it? Let's just watch what Greg wrs is talking about.

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Speaker 1: Please. I want to just I want to drink it

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Speaker 1: all in morse. You the veteran defense attorney, have said

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Speaker 1: he hit her in the elevator. That's not what happened.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at it. Her off.

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Speaker 10: Watch him smile like his face out.

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Speaker 3: Let's start it at the beginning, control room. Please start

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Speaker 3: it over.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, he's not acting like a Please talk about it.

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Speaker 10: People acting like a victim. He is not.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, so he's not acting the way you want him.

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Speaker 6: Tell it.

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Speaker 1: Him beating her? Watch yes, yes, I don't care she's

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Speaker 1: attacking her.

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Speaker 10: Now Okay, his smile on his face, Watch his smile.

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Speaker 10: Watch him smile in the.

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Speaker 1: Video in her house that I don't care if he's smiling.

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Speaker 3: Agreed, He obviously doesn't feel like he's about to be

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Speaker 3: stabbed dead.

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Speaker 9: But also remember battered spouse and or battered if she's

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Speaker 9: claiming self defense, and she was for a long time,

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Speaker 9: you know, two years in the relationship.

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Speaker 10: That has an effect.

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Speaker 9: And Christian is acting like someone who's not scared of her,

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Speaker 9: not afraid of her. He's smiling at her, and that

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Speaker 9: tells me there may be some information like the police

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Speaker 9: Affidavid says. For the arrest warrant, it says he was

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Speaker 9: also abusive. It says that it was not a one

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Speaker 9: sided situation, the domestic abuse. So my point is, there

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Speaker 9: is evidence that has been presented in what we've seen

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Speaker 9: so far by the police that at least supports that

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Speaker 9: he is not.

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Speaker 10: This is all one sided, that's all. He doesn't leave

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Speaker 10: the house, that's herd.

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Speaker 3: The only evidence that he, the dead victim, was abusive.

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Speaker 1: Is from her. What she no that said, that's not true.

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Speaker 9: The Affidavid from the police, the Effidavid that was filled

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Speaker 9: out by a first time homicide detective. According to the

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Speaker 9: Affidavid says that it was a toxic relationship and they were.

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Speaker 9: It was not only one sided. Although yes, the arrest

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Speaker 9: Affidavid does lean towards Clinnie being the aggressor or obviously

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Speaker 9: she was arrested for second degree murder. But you know,

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Speaker 9: you were a prosecutor. Defense lawyers look for anything to

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Speaker 9: be able to tell this show.

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Speaker 1: You put him up places.

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Speaker 3: You know what, greg, I wanted to hear you out,

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Speaker 3: to hear what you could possibly say to make him

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Speaker 3: the aggressor. And I said everything in that fidavit is

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Speaker 3: based on what she said, her allegations. I waited for

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Speaker 3: you to give me one shred, one scrap, once sentilla

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Speaker 3: of evidence that he had been the aggressor other than

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Speaker 3: her whining, and you gave me nothing as to talksic relationship.

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Speaker 3: That doesn't mean she's the aggressor. None of what you

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Speaker 3: just said says she's the aggressor. And you know what, well,

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Speaker 3: let's see that video a lot more time. The video

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Speaker 3: in the elevator that Greg Moore so kindly brought up

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Speaker 3: for me. Let's just watch it. Let's just watch it.

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Speaker 3: Where is he starting a fight?

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Speaker 1: Nowhere?

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Speaker 10: I didn't say it was starting a fight?

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Speaker 1: What am I supposed to do? Believe you are my

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Speaker 1: lying eyes, Morse.

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Speaker 12: And only fans. Model is heard screaming in a frantic

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Speaker 12: nine to one one call while her boyfriend lies dying

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Speaker 12: from a stab wound. When police arrived, the social media

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Speaker 12: star is covered in blood, and so is the condo

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Speaker 12: they share.

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Speaker 3: I remember investigating and prosecuting murder cases and so many

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Speaker 3: other types of felonies, and I would pour pour over.

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Speaker 1: A single mugshot.

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Speaker 3: What if anything could I learn from that one photo?

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Speaker 3: And you know what I just learned she doesn't have

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Speaker 3: a scratch on her yet she's claiming self defense. What

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Speaker 3: happened in that luxury condo? Listen to this nine one

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Speaker 3: one call man?

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Speaker 1: What do you mean?

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Speaker 11: Hear that?

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Speaker 1: One on her hilder? Now you call it man? One man?

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Speaker 13: Call you want birth?

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Speaker 1: Seven?

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Speaker 10: Avenue her breath?

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Speaker 11: One?

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Speaker 3: Why is it so hard to believe that she the

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Speaker 3: only fans model, is the aggressor the killer. Now you

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Speaker 3: saw the mugshot I showed you earlier. She doesn't have

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Speaker 3: a scratch on her. That is a stark contrast to

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Speaker 3: what cops found at the scene. Take a look at

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Speaker 3: bodycam video that we have obtained from the scene. Now important,

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Speaker 3: look at her. They finally got a shirt on her.

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Speaker 3: She's covered in blood. Covered in blood.

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Speaker 1: You can't tell is she a victim? Is she the killer?

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Speaker 1: Keep looking good? Gravy? There place is a pigsty. How

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Speaker 1: do I live like that? Anyway? Look at her?

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Speaker 3: There she is without a shirt on where you'll you'll

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Speaker 3: have to pay at OnlyFans to see that.

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Speaker 1: There she is. They've got a shirt on her.

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Speaker 3: Her breasts are exposed. She's obviously making no move to

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Speaker 3: fix that. Not judging don't care. I only care about

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Speaker 3: the murder. But look, if you look at her there,

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Speaker 3: you might think she's the victim. But then once they

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Speaker 3: get the blood off her, they realize all of that

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Speaker 3: is his blood, not her blood. Let's see take a

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Speaker 3: closer look. Look at her carefully, no bruises, no cuts,

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Speaker 3: keep it going, please control room. She even still has

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Speaker 3: her false eyelashes intact. Okay Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 3: joining me in all star panel. To make sense of

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Speaker 3: what we are learning, I want to go straight out

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Speaker 3: to doctor Michelle dupre Re, noow forensic pathologists, medical examiner,

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Speaker 3: also former detective with Lexington County Sheriffs and author of

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Speaker 3: multiple books, the most recent Money, Mischief and Murder The

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Speaker 3: Murdoch Dynasty. The rest of the story, she lived through

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Speaker 3: the Alex Murdog investigation and trial, but for my purposes today,

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Speaker 3: she's the author of the Homicide Investigation field Guide, Doctor Duprex,

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Speaker 3: I want to show you a video. Embrace yourself. You're

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Speaker 3: used to dealing with human bodies. This involves a pig carcass. Repeat,

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Speaker 3: a pig carcass that the defense brought into court.

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Speaker 1: Could I see the video? Please? What they did?

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Speaker 7: Wait?

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Speaker 3: I'll just they've got an expert knife thrower throwing knives

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Speaker 3: at a pig carcass. Why because in the nine one

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Speaker 3: one call excuse me, a police interrogation, she Clinny says

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Speaker 3: she threw the knife at about ten feet. Okay, they

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Speaker 3: actually showed the pig carcass knife throwing demo in court.

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Speaker 3: I picked a particular segment of the nine one one

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Speaker 3: call to play for you, doctor Dupree, where you hear

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Speaker 3: Clinny insisting the victim, Christian was stabbed in the shoulder.

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Speaker 3: Could he Christian have received a mortal stab by Clinny

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Speaker 3: throwing the knife at ten feet even the expert didn't

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Speaker 3: hit the carcass every time?

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Speaker 13: Explain when Nancy pickcarcas, first of all, because it is

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Speaker 13: very much like the human body, and so that's why

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Speaker 13: we choose that animal. It's very unlikely that she would

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Speaker 13: have that type of aim that would cause a lethal

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Speaker 13: injury from that distance, and for the knife to stay

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Speaker 13: in I don't know what kind of knife it was,

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Speaker 13: but a kitchen knife or something of that nature. It's

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Speaker 13: probably not going to work. And the expert here is

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Speaker 13: actually demonstrating that. I think that's very very unlikely. The

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Speaker 13: knife apparently did hit a major artery, which is why

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Speaker 13: it caused so much damage. Yeah, this is like a

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Speaker 13: state knife. That's very unlikely in my opinion, that had

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Speaker 13: happened the way she said it did.

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Speaker 3: Don'tor j pray, what about the depth the knife went

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Speaker 3: deep into Christian's body.

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Speaker 1: Hey, listen to this.

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Speaker 3: I want you to hear what she told police during

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Speaker 3: interrogation around the ball atom Mom.

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Speaker 4: And he's coming at me like you're going to grab

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Speaker 4: either the floor, like the knife or something. And so

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Speaker 4: I was just like, I was like, don't.

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Speaker 14: Get any closer.

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Speaker 4: Coming, I'm going to do it. And I met praise

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Speaker 4: ago before away.

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Speaker 3: Was she.

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Speaker 4: So well I would buy my praise And he was

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Speaker 4: like by the edge of one of his years.

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Speaker 14: So I turned to what I mean, I'm trying to

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Speaker 14: think in my head.

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Speaker 3: No, No, that did not happen. She volunteered that to police.

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Speaker 3: Doctor dupree that she threw it at about ten feet.

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Speaker 13: Nancy highly unlikely, and I'd be very very interested to

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Speaker 13: know if there was some bruising around that knife entrance wound,

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Speaker 13: because that would also indicate that she probably did that

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Speaker 13: with her hand with force. Again, I haven't in the autopsy,

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Speaker 13: so I don't know. But this is very unlikely that

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Speaker 13: she threw this at a distance of that that.

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Speaker 3: It was three inches deep. Doctor Dupree. Now, I'm certainly

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Speaker 3: no medical examiner. I don't have a medical degree like

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Speaker 3: you do. But it will be a cold day in

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Speaker 3: ht double l that she Clinny can throw a knife

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Speaker 3: at ten feet and.

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Speaker 1: Affect a wound.

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Speaker 3: They goes three inches into his body with likely bruising

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Speaker 3: around the entrance wound and severs an artery.

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Speaker 1: What is that the brachial artery in the.

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Speaker 13: Arm, probably the bracularr Yes, how.

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Speaker 1: Can you do that?

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Speaker 3: Throw a knife at ten feet and sever and artery

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Speaker 3: three inches into the arm?

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Speaker 13: Again, Nancy, that's very unlikely. That is that's a stake

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Speaker 13: knife from the kitchen. I don't think it's possible. The

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Speaker 13: expert couldn't even do it. I think that story is lousy.

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Speaker 1: If I don't been looking at a ste Okay, are

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Speaker 1: you married?

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Speaker 7: You stay right there? You stay right there.

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Speaker 14: I'm covering his b I understand that.

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Speaker 1: Will I do it?

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Speaker 3: I wait a minute, that was only fans model Courtney Cliney.

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Speaker 3: This is just after she stabs her living boyfriend of

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Speaker 3: two years dead, a cryptocurrency trader, and she repeatedly asks

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Speaker 3: the cop, are you married?

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Speaker 1: Are you married? Are you married? What do you look at?

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Speaker 3: Something else that I find very interesting. Let's see the

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Speaker 3: video of her in the lobby a few days prior

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Speaker 3: to the murder. She's claiming self defense, by the way,

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Speaker 3: and she looks pretty blood until she gets cleaned off.

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Speaker 3: Hey Crispin, Robert Crispin joining me outside that luxury high rise.

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Speaker 1: What are these cops? Fans? Look at them?

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Speaker 3: They're actually telling her how to get to the courthouse

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Speaker 3: first so she can file a tro before he does.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, listen her scantily, I mean listen, the way she's dressed.

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Speaker 6: Any man's going to look at him, even a cop.

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Speaker 6: But that's completely unprofessional for law enforcement to start giving

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Speaker 6: her any more benefit than anybody else, including a victim.

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Speaker 7: I think where she's going with the are you married?

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Speaker 7: Are you married?

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Speaker 6: Is she's trying to set the stage to let the

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Speaker 6: cops not think that she intentionally killed this guy today.

445
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 7: This was an accident.

446
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 6: Are you married? He's my life partner. I can't live

447
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,120
Speaker 6: if you listen more into the body cabs. I can't

448
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 6: live without him. He's my world, he's my partner. I

449
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 6: think she's trying to lay everything out.

450
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: Hold on, I'm bringing in a shrink. Joining me now.

451
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 3: Renounced psychologist, TV radio trauma expert consultant Karen Start joining

452
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 3: us from Manhattan at Karenstark dot com.

453
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: Watch the video, Karen.

454
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 3: Stark, I've saved the best for a last that's you, Karen.

455
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 3: I wanted you to hear everything before you rendered an opinion.

456
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: Look, you saw this.

457
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 3: You saw the elevator video that defense attorney Greg Moore

458
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 3: so kindly brought to my attention.

459
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: You've seen her covered.

460
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 3: In his blood, and then when they hose her off,

461
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 3: she doesn't have a scratch on her.

462
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: All that blood is his.

463
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 3: When you look at the dynamic, we're calling it the

464
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 3: Leopard video because of her skin tight leopard leggings. Not judging,

465
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 3: I don't care. I only care about the cod What

466
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 3: is your opinion?

467
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: What's happening? Karen Stark?

468
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 5: Nancy, this is so typical of a female abuser, a

469
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 5: violent one where you see her over and over again

470
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 5: attacking him. I also want to add that she did

471
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 5: attack him in the past. She kniped him in his

472
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 5: leg and they make reference to that. She's constantly telling

473
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 5: herself not to be that way, to try and calm down,

474
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 5: she writes in her diary, But she can't control herself.

475
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 7: A rat it She's.

476
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 5: Silent, and it doesn't take a lot to get her

477
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 5: to be this impulsive where she can't stop herself. So

478
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 5: when you look at how it escalates, you can clearly

479
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 5: see that this is going to lead to something that's

480
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 5: fatal to me anyway, because female abuses also tend to

481
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,679
Speaker 5: use a weapon, they don't have that physical strength, And

482
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 5: here you go with her using a weapon, possibly even

483
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 5: throwing a frame at him which goes off of the balcony,

484
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 5: clearly cutting him.

485
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 10: In the past.

486
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 3: You know, I'm very curious about something you just said

487
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 3: about a prior knife attack where the only fans model

488
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 3: aka stripper not judging, don't care. I only care if

489
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 3: it's got crime scene tape around it.

490
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: Okay, I care about that. Take that down. Months before.

491
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 3: The stabbing death, she Courtney Cliney apparently stabbed her living

492
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 3: Christian in the leg. Joining me is Kimeoline dot Com

493
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 3: investigative reporter Dave matt Is this true.

494
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 15: Yes, Nancy, It's absolutely true that they had a relationship

495
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 15: that was branded with violence, and even though people try

496
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 15: to make it seem as though Christian Obemseli was also

497
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 15: handing it out every time we hear and see anything.

498
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 15: In this case, it's Courtney Clinny as the aggressor from

499
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 15: her earliest days on planet Earth. She was the aggressor

500
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 15: when they first met. She was the aggressor all the

501
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 15: way up to the point where she claims to have

502
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 15: thrown a ninth ten feet but stabbing him. Prior to that, yat,

503
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 15: hitting him with the picture Frank's gas, anything that was close.

504
00:29:50,040 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 14: To her, she'd throw at him or hit him.

505
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

506
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 3: You know, it's heartbreaking. I've looked at some of the

507
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 3: boyfriend's texts and one says, is love.

508
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: Going to kill me?

509
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 3: And so many of these cases, Karen Stark I've had,

510
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 3: and it's almost all of mine, have been where the

511
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 3: woman dies as after a beating by the husband, a shooting,

512
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,080
Speaker 3: a stabbing, and in those cases, Kieren, very often they

513
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 3: say that the victim says things like if anything happens

514
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: to me, he did it. Or if you can't find me,

515
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 3: ask my husband, or I've got an emergency key in

516
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 3: case you can't find me, and it's under the flower pot.

517
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 3: It's an eerie premonition, Karen Stark. And here you've got

518
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: the boyfriend stating is love going to kill me?

519
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 5: And Nancy speaking to what you said about usually being

520
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 5: the female who's the victim. That's why it's so hard

521
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 5: for people to accept that this female is an abuser,

522
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 5: which she is. But look, she's gone along and claiming

523
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 5: each time that she's defending herself, which doesn't We don't see.

524
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 8: That in any of it.

525
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 5: In addition, she drinks. She clearly is in some kind

526
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 5: of altered state. And she went and threatened a young

527
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 5: man who was eighteen years old after she killed this

528
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 5: boy who lived with her, this fabulous man who I

529
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 5: think was just stuck in this relationship and didn't know

530
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 5: how to get out. But the public has take sympathy

531
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 5: on her because they think, oh, she's a woman, she's weak.

532
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 5: She's not weak, she's very strong.

533
00:31:58,800 --> 00:31:59,440
Speaker 10: We see it.

534
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 4: Have to inform me.

535
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 10: The Christian did not make it.

536
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 14: Unfortunately, though doctors did.

537
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 6: Would be good.

538
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 4: She is dead. Oh my god, this is not real, right,

539
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:23,880
Speaker 4: This is.

540
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 12: Not a who stabbed Christian case?

541
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 15: This is you know, we know what happened, Well.

542
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 4: We know part of what happened, so so, so much

543
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 4: better Wednesday, just say it's stable. Yeah, And I've been asking,

544
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 4: I've been asked, you know, but that's what we're waiting for.

545
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 4: I mean, I feel like the timing. You think you

546
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 4: think he's not. That's a lot worse for me. But

547
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 4: I think he's not.

548
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 15: Says a lot worse for everybody.

549
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: My stars, this woman. Did you hear what she said?

550
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 3: If he dies, that's a lot worse for me, it's

551
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 3: a lot worse for him. Okay, now wait a minute,

552
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 3: Wait a minute. I want you to hear more of

553
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 3: what she says when she finds out she stabbed her

554
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 3: lover dead.

555
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: Listen.

556
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 4: I cannot be left alone in like a room by myself.

557
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 13: No, I'm true.

558
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 4: I didn't know. That's not real, right, But who's Christian

559
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 4: and trition and dead? I know. I can't believe it.

560
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 3: It's all about her. I can't be left alone. Don't

561
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 3: leave me alone. Don't do this to me. He's dead.

562
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 3: Woman joining me. Alexis Tereschuk and Dave mac both reporting

563
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 3: on the case. Alexis Tereschuk, the defendant, the only fans

564
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,640
Speaker 3: model wrote notes to herself about her abusive behavior.

565
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: What do they say?

566
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 11: In one note, she writes, he hates me for hitting him,

567
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 11: He thinks my alcohol abuse is pathetic and I don't

568
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 11: have as.

569
00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 8: Many friends as he does.

570
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 11: And then in another note, she says, stop putting your

571
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 11: hands on him out of anger. It releases tension, but

572
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 11: has long lasting effects on a self esteem looking in

573
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 11: the mirror, and is not acceptable in any relationship in general.

574
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 11: She also wrote, but now I'm just effing abusive. Why

575
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,240
Speaker 11: is that I'm turning into an ugly person?

576
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 1: And so is he?

577
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 11: Maybe it's because of me, or maybe I'm finally seeing

578
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 11: as true colors. He only said he had anger issues.

579
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 7: You know that really matters.

580
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 3: All of this is about me, me, me, me. As

581
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 3: she's talking about her physically abusing him, that ends in murder.

582
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 3: And now, to Dave Matt, crimeonline dot Com investigative reporter

583
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,399
Speaker 3: also joining us along with Alexis Tereschuk, David Mack, this

584
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 3: woman is so entitled that she can get away with

585
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 3: all of this and then con everybody, including police and

586
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 3: a judge.

587
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: But what about her parents?

588
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: How does she suck them into her vortex of carnage?

589
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: What does she call them into doing.

590
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 15: Dave mack Well, the police did not grab Christian elb

591
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 15: Mouncelli's laptop after he was killed and knowing it was

592
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 15: left behind, and knowing that there was private information on there,

593
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 15: including information on their iCloud of messages between Courtney, her parents,

594
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 15: and her attorney. All of this is swirling around. They

595
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,839
Speaker 15: wanted access open Selly's laptop so they could take out

596
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 15: or delete whatever they didn't want on their They knew

597
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 15: police wanted that, They knew police needed it for evidence,

598
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 15: and the family was all involved in getting access to it,

599
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,600
Speaker 15: and they did. They actually were able to crack his

600
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 15: password and access that laptop. That's why they were charged.

601
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 15: They got in a mess with that computer when they

602
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,040
Speaker 15: knew it was evidence and knew they were not entitled

603
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 15: to do it, knowing it was not their property, it

604
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 15: was the victim's property.

605
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 3: Oh man, to drag your parents into your murder case,

606
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 3: getting them to go and get the victim's hard drive. Now,

607
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 3: Greg Morse, lucky for the parents, the hacking case I

608
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 3: believe has been dropped. Why they because they found a

609
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 3: lot of attorney client communications, So I think the whole

610
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 3: thing was essentially thrown out rather than violate the attorney

611
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 3: client privilege.

612
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: Is that your understanding.

613
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,240
Speaker 9: That is so the prosecution decided to drop the charges

614
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 9: because the court did find and excluded a lot of

615
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 9: the statements that included her attorney. I believe it was

616
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 9: Clennie's attorney when she was speaking with the parents. So

617
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 9: the state attorney decided to drop that charge. And it

618
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 9: really wasn't necessary anyway. That's the example of probably the

619
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 9: state doing too much that can cause.

620
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 3: Look at her knuckles, Morse, did you see her knuckles

621
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 3: where she's.

622
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:41,720
Speaker 1: Been baiting him like a street fighter. No, no, no, no, no, no, no no,

623
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't.

624
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 8: Maybe come here, I just sit o.

625
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 3: It took how many police two or three officers to

626
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 3: control her and get her to sit down?

627
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 1: Okay, control him.

628
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 3: I would like to see the crime scene photos, and

629
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 3: as you play them, I'm going to read to you

630
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 3: a text from the victim, Christian to the murder defendant Clinny.

631
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: Now listen to this. This is what he writes.

632
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 3: The crazy thing about all this is that yesterday when

633
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 3: you stabbed me in the leg and you saw how

634
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 3: bad it was hurting me, and I couldn't walk, I

635
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 3: couldn't do anything, and you were telling me I wish

636
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 3: I could take your pain away, and I wish.

637
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: It was me and not you.

638
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 3: It reveals how torment and he is over their relationship.

639
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 3: He goes on to state, I sacrifice my pride and ego,

640
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 3: telling myself how I don't need to win, just let

641
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 3: her have her way.

642
00:37:58,880 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: And after he got.

643
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 3: Stick she beat him on the stitches and he says,

644
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 3: I've let go of my pride, my ego, I sacrificed,

645
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 3: and now he's dead Moose.

646
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 9: And that's you look at that as complete evidence against Clinny.

647
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 9: But what I see is someone who is not acting

648
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 9: like someone who is fearful, someone who he could have

649
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 9: easily left. There is a lot of information. Although he

650
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 9: is dead, he was stabbed. She stabbed him in the leg. Again,

651
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 9: you're you're having someone of all to a relationship.

652
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: He's really amazing to me.

653
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 3: To Robert Crispin joining us outside that luxury high rise,

654
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 3: as it's described, how you can have it, Crispin, if

655
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 3: these roles were reversed, you believe Morse or anybody else

656
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,760
Speaker 3: would say, Hey, she did look scared.

657
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: She never right is scared in front of the people.

658
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 3: She could have left if the victim right woman in

659
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 3: this case, nobody would be saying that, would.

660
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 7: They Not at all? Not at all.

661
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 6: It'd be the big man killed the little woman, a big,

662
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:11,720
Speaker 6: bad monster.

663
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 3: In the last days, the defense brings a pig carcass

664
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 3: knife throwing demo into court, trying to convince a judge it.

665
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 1: Couldn't have happened that way, Well it did.

666
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: We wait as justice unfolds, and let me advise everyone.

667
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,399
Speaker 1: Clinnie and her parents, whose charges have been dropped.

668
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 3: Are innocent tonight until they are proven guilty in the

669
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 3: court of law. But if I were a betting person,

670
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 3: I would bet she will be convicted.

671
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: How can you turn away from all of this?

672
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 3: The only person I know that can do that is

673
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 3: high profile lawyer Greg Morse. We remember now an American hero,

674
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 3: Sergeant Well Guzman Ponce, Municipal Police, Puerto Rico, just twenty three,

675
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 3: shot dead in a line of duty, survived by his

676
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 3: wife who is pregnant, and a five year old child.

677
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 3: American hero I Sergeant Noel Guzman Nancy Gray signing off

678
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 3: goodbye friend.