1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning. 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 1: episode is going to be a longer one part of 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: the series where I interview fascinating people about how they 5 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: take their days from great to awesome and any advice 6 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,279 Speaker 1: they have for the rest of us. So today I 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: am delighted to welcome Cassie Holmes to the show. Cassie's 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: a professor at UCLA's Anderson School of Management. She is 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: also the author of the book Happier Hour. So, Cassie, 10 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: welcome to the show. 11 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Laura. I' it's a treat to join you. 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: Well, I am so excited to have you as well. 13 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:43,919 Speaker 1: Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit more 14 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: about yourself. 15 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, I am currently a professor at UCLA in 16 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: the Business School, and I stay currently because I started 17 00:00:54,600 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 2: my career as a professor back in Philly where to 18 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 2: you geographically, But throughout my career I've been studying happiness 19 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 2: and looking at what's the role of time and how 20 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 2: does that play into things? And the last no offense 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: to us academics, but nobody reads their academic papers and 22 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 2: so about six years ago I was like, well, gosh, 23 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 2: there's actually a lot of insight from the research, not 24 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 2: just my own, but from across the field. So I 25 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 2: decided to pull it together and develop a course that 26 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 2: I've been teaching to our MBAs and executive MBAs at 27 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: UCLA called Applying the Science of Happiness to Life Design. 28 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,559 Speaker 2: And when I saw the impact on my students, both 29 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: how they you know, their happiness and satisfaction and fulfillment 30 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: during the course, but also hearing from them years following 31 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: the course, I was like, oh, my gosh, this is 32 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 2: really exciting. And then when I was approached to write 33 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: a book, I was like, yes, because then more people 34 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 2: who gets it in my done week course can gain 35 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:10,919 Speaker 2: from the learnings. And so I wrote Happier Hour, which 36 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 2: came out a couple of years ago, which is sort 37 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 2: of captures both the research as well as the assignments 38 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 2: that I give my students, some of which are very 39 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 2: much like those that you encourage in your work, Laura, 40 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: and so folks can sort of have some tools to 41 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 2: beat distraction, expand their time, and focus on what matters most. 42 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: I love it. 43 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: Those are all things we are very excited about here. 44 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: On this show, and I will confess that I've actually 45 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: read some of your papers, Cassie, so you and like 46 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: three others exactly exactly. 47 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: But I want to. 48 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about some of your research because 49 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: I think a lot of it is very fascinating and 50 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,799 Speaker 1: does have practical implications for people. So a couple of them. 51 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: Just I pulled out a of happier hour that I 52 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: think would be really helpful for people. One of my 53 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: favorite ones is about treating our weekends like a vacation, 54 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: So talk about that. What does that mean and why 55 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: is that a new mindset that people might want to adopt. 56 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I love this work because it is so 57 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,359 Speaker 2: easy to implement and I continue to and it sounds 58 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 2: like others do as well. And so it was actually 59 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: sort of spurred out of the research that shows that 60 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: taking vacation is so important for creativity and even satisfaction 61 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 2: and engagement at work. But so often people don't take 62 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 2: vacation because they don't feel like they have the time, 63 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 2: more the money, while they absolutely should and it is 64 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: something to devote time to. And even in the Gallup data, 65 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: the people's responses to whether they prioritize time for vacation. 66 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: It is a has a very strong relationship with satisfaction 67 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 2: in life and enjoyment. But given that we don't always 68 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 2: feel like we can take the time, we were actually like, well, 69 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: what if we actually made more of the time off 70 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 2: from work that we do have? Like every week most 71 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 2: Americans get the weekends quote unquote off from work, but 72 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 2: it doesn't feel like the break that it maybe should. 73 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 2: And so we ran experiments that showed this effect. So 74 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: in the experiment, we randomly assigned and it was among 75 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: full time American workers on a regular Friday leading into 76 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 2: a regular weekend. We gave some these set of instructions 77 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 2: treat this weekend like a vacation, and then we told 78 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: others treat this weekend like a regular weekend. That is it, 79 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 2: that is like as simple as it is. And then 80 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: on Monday morning, when they were back at work, we 81 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 2: followed up and we measured their happiness again. And what 82 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 2: we found that those who were instructed simply to treat 83 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: their weekends like a vacation and were significantly happier when 84 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: they were back at work on Monday, not only that 85 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: they enjoyed the weekends more. And then we're like, well, 86 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 2: why like, why is it that just telling someone to 87 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 2: treat the weekend like a vacation or individuals telling themselves 88 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,359 Speaker 2: to treat the weekend like a vacation versus regular weekend. 89 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: And what we found was that there were some shifts 90 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 2: in how people spent their time. So people did do 91 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 2: a little bit less work or housework, they spent more 92 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 2: time in bed and eating, like you know, is reflective 93 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: vacation as well, right, But what was really interesting was 94 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 2: that it wasn't those changes in the activities people spent 95 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 2: their time on that actually predicted their enjoyment or even 96 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 2: their happiness on Monday. What did was their mindset. Those 97 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 2: who were treating the weekend like a vacation were more 98 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: focused on the present moment. They were more mentally engaged 99 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: in the activities they were doing. And what I think 100 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 2: is dry is that that sort of doing mode that 101 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 2: propels us through the week of like getting tasks done, 102 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 2: checking them off the list, then carries over into the weekend. 103 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: So then even if we're doing like social activities or 104 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: going to your kids' soccer game, it's still a task 105 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 2: that you're moving through and checking it off the list. 106 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: But when you're treating it like a vacation. What that 107 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: does is it shifts you out of that doing mode 108 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: and allows you just to be. You know, it gives 109 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 2: you that sense of like, you know what, Yes, you 110 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 2: might be at the soccer field for your kids game, 111 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 2: but it's not about a task that you're getting done. 112 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 2: You're like, oh my god, here I am sitting outside, 113 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: Folks are around me cheering from my kid. Like just 114 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 2: that vacation mindset licenses you to just take a break 115 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 2: and chill out and be in the moment. And it's 116 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 2: interesting because even like digging into the data we saw, 117 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 2: we ask people to in one of this studies to 118 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: like reconstruct tell us what they did sort of at 119 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: each part of the weekend. And in both conditions, the 120 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:14,239 Speaker 2: vacation condition and the regular weekend condition, there were moms 121 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: that were had cooked pancakes for their family on Saturday morning, 122 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 2: but the way they described it was so different that 123 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 2: in the regular weekend was like, and I made pancakes 124 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: for my family, it was like absolutely a task. The 125 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 2: other mom and the one who is treating it like 126 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 2: a vacation, she's like, and we have pancakes for breakfast, 127 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: and we all sat down and it was just like 128 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: just like we're on vacation, which again that same activity 129 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 2: is experienced very differently when you're treating it like a vacation. 130 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, fascinating stuff, in a very practical thing for 131 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: people to try this weekend. In fact, we're going to 132 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: take a quick ad break and then I will be 133 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: back with more from Cassie homes. 134 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 2: Well. 135 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: I am back with Cassie Holmes, who is a professor 136 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: at UCLA's Anderson's School of Management, which she's taught a 137 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: very popular class on happiness. She is also the author 138 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: of the book Happier Hour. So we're going through some 139 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 1: of you know, the greatest hits on the research here, Cassie. 140 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: Another one of my favorite ones that you talk about 141 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: in Happier Hour. You had a study where you had 142 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: some people help students edit essays, and you had other 143 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: people get a windfall of free time, like they were 144 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: just allowed to leave without doing whatever experiment they had 145 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,199 Speaker 1: come in to do. Right, And I believe you found 146 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: some counterintuitive result about how busy or how much time 147 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: people felt they had with these two separate conditions. So 148 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: maybe you could talk a little bit about that. 149 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's so important particularly for your 150 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 2: listeners who I'm sure feel very time poor, like they 151 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 2: don't have enough hours in the day to get at 152 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: all done. And when we feel that way, one of 153 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: the consequences is that we don't spend the time to 154 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 2: help others out right there is when we feel like 155 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: we're busy and in such a hurry, we don't take 156 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 2: the time to help others. But in this work, we 157 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: found that actually giving time can give us a sense 158 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 2: of having more time, which is counterintuitive. Why does it happen? Well, then, 159 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: the study that you example showed for example, or talked about, 160 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 2: is that we had some people give their time to 161 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 2: help someone by editing their essay. Others got a windfall 162 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: of time. And in other studies we had them not 163 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: only get a windfall of time, but also compared it 164 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: to like spending time on themselves, so spending time on 165 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: someone else spending time on yourself. And we found that 166 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: those who spend time on someone else felt like they 167 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 2: had more time. And the reason is because it increased 168 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 2: their sense of self efficacy. That is, like when we 169 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 2: help someone out, like oh my gosh, I accomplished a lot, 170 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,680 Speaker 2: it was only five minutes or fifteen minutes and in 171 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 2: some cases thirty minutes, but like, I accomplished a lot 172 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 2: with that time, and then it increases your sense of 173 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 2: how much you can accomplish with your time, more generally, 174 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 2: giving you a sense that you have sufficient time to 175 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 2: accomplish what you set out to do. Because time poverty 176 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 2: is a subjective feeling. It is how confident you feel 177 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 2: like you are able to complete those tasks that you 178 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 2: set out to do. And by increasing your sense of 179 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 2: accomplishment and efficacy and confidence that you can complete your task, 180 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: it lessens that sense of constraint from time. Now, I 181 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 2: will say a couple of caveats is if you give 182 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 2: away so much of your time that you really have 183 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 2: like none left, then I don't think it's going to 184 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 2: have this effect. Like in there is research that shows 185 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 2: that you know, long term caregivers feel very depleted and 186 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 2: lower sense of satisfaction because their time is not their own, 187 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 2: or if that time is taken from you, not that 188 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 2: it's given. I also don't think you'll have this effect. 189 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 2: It's really the sense of spending your time on something 190 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: that makes you feel like you've accomplished a lot, and 191 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 2: that translates into feeling like I have more time more recently. 192 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 2: Exactly along with that mechanism, my uh I ran a 193 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 2: study where we showed that the same thing happened with exercise. 194 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: So exercise is one of those things that we are 195 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 2: very quick to neglect when we don't feel like we 196 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 2: have a lot of time. But in a study that 197 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 2: we ran among my MBAs, we had them as one 198 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 2: of the class assignments. One week was to exercise because 199 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 2: that is a significant mood booster, and sother to carve 200 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 2: out time to exercise. And then what we did it 201 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 2: was we measured their sense of time poverty, or how 202 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 2: much time they felt like they had either before the 203 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 2: exercise or after the exercise. And what we found was 204 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 2: that after exercising, people felt like they had significantly more 205 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 2: time than before exercising because what the exercise did is 206 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 2: it was like, oh my gosh. It gave them the 207 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 2: sense like I have accomplished something and gives the greater 208 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 2: confidence in how you much you can accomplish with your 209 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 2: subsequent day. So I think these are both helpful sort 210 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 2: of things to keep in mind that when we feel 211 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: time poor, we do neglect these activities that really fuel us, right, 212 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 2: fuel us give us that energy exercise really sort of 213 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 2: being kind to and doing something for another person. And 214 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 2: yet even though we are tend to sort of neglect them, 215 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 2: if we go ahead and spend time on these particular 216 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 2: activities that really increase our sense of confidence and accomplishment, 217 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 2: that can lessen our sense of time stream. Absolutely. 218 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say that, you know, people who do 219 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: a lot with their time often feel like they can 220 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: do a lot with their done. I mean, because the 221 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: evidence is there they have, you know, So it's really 222 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: a self reinforcing cycle. And just one more because I 223 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: think this was also a good one too. It's about 224 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: making time feel more more precious by calculating how much 225 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: is left and that often we can have a different 226 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: mindset on it everyday activity by realizing how close to 227 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: the end of it we might be. 228 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think this is really important coming out 229 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 2: of my research where we found that there's extraordinary happiness 230 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 2: available to us in ordinary moments, but so often we 231 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 2: sort of miss those moments that are right there in 232 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: our days and how we're spending our time already because 233 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 2: of headonic adaptation, right, that is our propensity to get 234 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 2: used to things over time. So when you are doing 235 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 2: the same thing again and again you're with the same person, 236 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 2: they stop having as intensive an emotional effect on us. 237 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: And so it's good that we're adaptive in the face 238 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 2: of negative circumstances, but recognizing that we also adapt and 239 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,600 Speaker 2: don't notice those the good stuff, we have to figure 240 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: out ways to offset that tendency so we can continue 241 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 2: to feel joy from life's choice. So one way to 242 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: do that is to count your time's left. Because just 243 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 2: because it's an everyday type experience now, it doesn't mean 244 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 2: that it's going to continue to happen every day, and 245 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 2: certainly not like it does now. And so an example 246 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 2: that I have shared is my coffee dates with my daughter. 247 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 2: So this is a weekly we've been going on our 248 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 2: weekly coffee dates since whatever I want coffee on the 249 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 2: way of dropping out or preschool. And now it's like 250 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 2: a half hour where the two of us spend together. 251 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 2: You know, she has her hot chocolate, I have my 252 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: flat white croissants and it's just the two of us 253 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 2: chatting for a half hour. Now, she's nine, while we'd 254 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 2: have our weekly coffee dates. Now, when she turns twelve, 255 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: I suspect she'll probably want to go to the coffee 256 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 2: shop with her friends instead of me, So it's not 257 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 2: going to happen every week, you know. And then she's 258 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 2: going to go off to college and then she's gonna 259 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 2: move to New York or whatever it is. And so 260 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 2: I did this calculation of calculating of our total times 261 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: of going on coffee dates what percentage is left, realizing 262 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 2: that we have about thirty six percent of our coffee 263 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 2: dates left and that's much less than half. What that 264 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 2: does recog and she's only nine years old, right. What 265 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 2: that does is it motivates me to make the time 266 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 2: to in those busy weeks, to make sure I make 267 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 2: the time. But as importantly is it makes me pay 268 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 2: attention because knowing that these times are limited makes me 269 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 2: put my phone away. So that's source of distraction or 270 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 2: also what you know, my constant to do list that's 271 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 2: running in my head, Like I was like, oh, what's next, 272 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: what do I need to But like, since I know 273 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 2: that there's so few left, or that they are in 274 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 2: fact limited, it totally makes me pay attention because this 275 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 2: is the time that matters. And so I have, like 276 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 2: in I've had by students calculate times left and some 277 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 2: of the things they've calculated, like dinner with their parents, 278 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 2: or taking their dog for a walk, or you know, 279 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 2: having dinner with their family, their kids, you know, around 280 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 2: the table, and recognizing that these things that are just 281 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:09,160 Speaker 2: the fabric of our lives are precious. It makes us 282 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 2: show up fully and fully, and it totally makes us 283 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:19,160 Speaker 2: pay attention and get experience the joy that is available 284 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 2: to us in that time already. 285 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: Absolutely, so much of life is just about paying attention 286 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: to what is there, to the good things that are 287 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: already surrounding us. We're going to take one more quick 288 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: ad break and then I will be back with more 289 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: from Cassie Homes. Well, I am back with Cassie Holmes. 290 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: We've been talking about research on ways to be happier 291 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: in our everyday lives. So you know, this is a 292 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: time management and productivity podcast, Cassie, so I'm very curious 293 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: if you have any routines in your day that help 294 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: you be more effective. 295 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, we've already talked about mindset and actually the 296 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 2: of exercise. So one of the things that I and 297 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: I keep having to turn bind myself and experience the 298 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 2: benefits of it is starting the day instead of picking 299 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 2: up my phone and sort of responding to emails is like, 300 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 2: you know, getting my sneakers on and going out for 301 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 2: my morning run, because that time that I dedicate to 302 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 2: myself I have is the thinking. It sort of absolutely 303 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: shifts my approach to the rest of the day. Even 304 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 2: though I'm like, oh my god, do I have time? Well, 305 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 2: when I do it at the first thing in the day, 306 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 2: it absolutely makes me feel like I have more time 307 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 2: and it sets my mode for the rest of the week. 308 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 2: And another thing is so protecting that time for exercise 309 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 2: and for me early morning is key. Another thing is 310 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 2: carving out the time and putting my fun away, closing 311 00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 2: out of email for that those work chunks where I 312 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: really need want to dig into the part of my 313 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 2: work that is so important to me, that's in line 314 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,199 Speaker 2: with my purpose, that requires deep thinking. It's not just 315 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: reacting to emails. It is like where I actually need 316 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 2: to think, and I protect the time in my calendar 317 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 2: and I protect my physical space to not have the 318 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 2: interruptions so that I can get into those flow states. 319 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,959 Speaker 2: And that is when we are in those flow states 320 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 2: where most creative, most productive, and when we come out 321 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 2: of it, we feel so great. And what's really sort 322 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,360 Speaker 2: of a theme around all of my work is that 323 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 2: you know, it's not about how much time, it's really 324 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 2: about the quality of the time, and so making the 325 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 2: quality of that time for that important work, protecting it 326 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 2: so that I can I can sort of enjoy it 327 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,320 Speaker 2: and make the most of it, because the rest of 328 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 2: the work day is filled with stuff, right like the 329 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 2: email that's warning the meetings. But this at least make 330 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: sure that I feel like I have been productive, that 331 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 2: I am sort of making a progress towards the things 332 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 2: that really matter to me. 333 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: Do you tend to do that first thing when you 334 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: come into the officers at a particular time of day 335 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: that you protect I'm curious how you do Yeah. 336 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 2: For me, it is in the morning, so it is 337 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 2: my exercise and then I get ready, you know, like, 338 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 2: and then I go dressed, and then I start off 339 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,199 Speaker 2: the day and I have that first three hours. And 340 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 2: I can't do this every day because there are other 341 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,239 Speaker 2: days where I do have actually meetings. But I know 342 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 2: that I'm a morning person. I know that that is 343 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 2: when my mind is working at its best. But the 344 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 2: research shows that some people are actually night owls. So 345 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 2: I think the thing that's most important is for folks 346 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 2: to identify when within their schedule can they actually protect 347 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: the time and not getting those distractions, but also hopeful 348 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 2: aligning it when your brain is most on and it's 349 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 2: sort of fitting with the energy that you have for 350 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 2: that particular task. I mean, you know, my other times 351 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 2: that I want to be super engaged, like my date 352 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 2: you know with my daughter Alita, I don't want it 353 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 2: on Monday morning because I'm in the sort of go 354 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 2: mode and productivity mode. And so it's actually for those 355 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,879 Speaker 2: it's more important to me, I like sort of particularly 356 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 2: place it in a morning and a time that I 357 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,239 Speaker 2: actually do feel like I will be more likely to 358 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 2: settle in and down. And so it's now it's on 359 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 2: a weekend morning. I used to be on Thursday mornings. 360 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's all about knowing your schedule and knowing 361 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,400 Speaker 1: yourself and making proactive choices about where you put these 362 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:46,520 Speaker 1: things totally. 363 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like we don't have control over all 364 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 2: of our time, but just for those things that are 365 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 2: really important is being very thoughtful and intentional and protecting 366 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,400 Speaker 2: that time because other stuff will still in right. It's 367 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 2: like for me, the afternoons are. 368 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: Like Beanil is always there and I'm sure there's always 369 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 1: students who have something that they want, so yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well. 370 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: One thing I always ask guests on this show is what, 371 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: what's something you've done recently to take a day from 372 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: great to awesome. 373 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 2: I'm like embarrassed to share this. 374 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: But it's probably beans it's gonna be good. 375 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 2: I have started doing tennis lessons on There's day warning, 376 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 2: and I literally like start my work day an hour later. 377 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 2: But it is so fun. It makes me like it 378 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 2: is so fun and it is an activity that is 379 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 2: the only reason I'm doing it is because it's fun. 380 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: And then it forces me into the flow day. I'm 381 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 2: like learning a skill, I'm moving that exercise, Like all 382 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 2: of these outside all of these components make it like 383 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 2: I feel guilty because I'm like embarrassed to share it 384 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 2: because I'm like, oh no, it's something that is just 385 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,000 Speaker 2: for fun and just for me, but it has made 386 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,359 Speaker 2: me so joyful. And then when I show up to work, 387 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,840 Speaker 2: I'm like I'm ready, you know, and I'm much nicer 388 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 2: and kinder and more proactive to my colleagues so they benefit. 389 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,359 Speaker 2: And then when I'm like home at the end of 390 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 2: the day, the kids, I'm like, oh, my gosh. You know, 391 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 2: here we are investing in their skill development and all 392 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 2: these fun enriching activities. I'm like, you know what, I'm 393 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 2: gonna invest in my time exactly. Yeah. 394 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: What are the things we often talk about on the 395 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: show about a you know, it take one night for you, 396 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 1: but it could be one early morning for you as well. 397 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: But to do something that's not work, it's not taking 398 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: care of family, it's something that's uniquely for you and 399 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: that you find intrinsically enjoyable, and it changes your whole life, 400 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,639 Speaker 1: Like totally, what's a week? That's all it has to be. 401 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: It just it changes everything about it. So, Cassie, what's 402 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: something you are looking forward to right now? 403 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 2: I am looking forward to. Uh, well, I have mixed emotions. 404 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 2: I think I was mentioning to you. My son is 405 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: graduating from his elementary school, and I am looking forward 406 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 2: to the opportunity to sort of celebrate him with these 407 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 2: kids that he's been in school with since they were 408 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 2: like four, you know. So it's this it's a it's 409 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 2: an occasion around time of how much they've grown and 410 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 2: a celebration of the time we've had together and also 411 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 2: a sort of reminder of The Bitter Sweet is like, 412 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 2: you know, when he starts middle school, he will wave 413 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,719 Speaker 2: at me goodbye and I will be less involved in 414 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:50,479 Speaker 2: the campus. But it's it's the sort of transition of 415 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,480 Speaker 2: growth as well as celebration of the time that we've had. 416 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 1: Absolutely well, I'm sure it'll be amazing. So Cassie, where 417 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: can people find you? 418 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 2: Well? My web site, cassiem Holmes. I am on LinkedIn. 419 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 2: I am not on other social media because I don't 420 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 2: enjoy it, so I don't spend my time there to 421 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 2: make sure. 422 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:16,679 Speaker 1: We have happier hours by not doing them. Absolutely absolutely well, Cassie, 423 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. Thank you to 424 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: everyone for listening. If you have feedback about this or 425 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: any other episode, you can always reach me at Laura 426 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: at Laura vandercam dot com. In the meantime, this is Laura. 427 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and here's to making the most of 428 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: our time. Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast. If you've 429 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach me at 430 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. Before Breakfast is a 431 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: production of iHeartMedia. For more podcasts from iHeartMedia, please visit 432 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to 433 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.