Speaker 1: What's good. Family. I'm your girl, Tamika D. Mallory's your
Speaker 1: and we are your hosts of Street Politicians, the place
Speaker 1: where the streets and politics meet. We are in person
Speaker 1: today office. Ye were back in style, back inside inside.
Speaker 1: We do actually put pants on now right in my boxes,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, put my my shirt over
Speaker 1: my night Gale. Sometimes and I go to work and
Speaker 1: that's that. But now now it's it's good to be
Speaker 1: in Studio two and to see the entire Street Politicians team,
Speaker 1: folks that have been working to make this show the greatest,
Speaker 1: and it's a good feeling to be at work. Our
Speaker 1: panel today is probably going to be a deep, long discussion.
Speaker 1: I'm excited about it. I want to see what you did.
Speaker 1: You know what You put this together all by your loan,
Speaker 1: so and I wanna I'm excited to get to that. So.
Speaker 1: I don't want us to sit and be labored. It's
Speaker 1: so much happening in this country, so much happening. There
Speaker 1: is the debate that's happening over the Philip Bus to
Speaker 1: being changed so that they could get voting rights past
Speaker 1: and Washington that's actually started yesterday. There's developments there Um,
Speaker 1: there's things happening with uh COVID nineteen and and the vaccinations.
Speaker 1: Looks like nike UM has laid off or fired several
Speaker 1: of their employees who were not vaccinated. So over this
Speaker 1: past weekend, several people who were not vaccinated have been
Speaker 1: terminated because the policy went into effect in October that
Speaker 1: they would have to be vaccinated in the deadline was January.
Speaker 1: So you have that happening. You've got kids walking the
Speaker 1: schools because they feel unsafe. You've got mayors like our
Speaker 1: mayor in New York, um Eric Adams, saying that this
Speaker 1: this city, the world has to open up. And I
Speaker 1: actually agree, Um, you know, and I don't agree with
Speaker 1: Eric on all the things, but I do agree with
Speaker 1: him that the city has to open. The country has
Speaker 1: to open. Too many people don't have jobs. And by
Speaker 1: the way, the federal government is not sending all of
Speaker 1: this money for that it was sending in the past.
Speaker 1: So we got to get people back to work. Yeah,
Speaker 1: people got to get back to work. Somehow. We're not
Speaker 1: getting rid of COVID, the CDC and others within the
Speaker 1: federal system. Whatever health experts say. We've got to live
Speaker 1: with COVID. The same way we do the flu, the
Speaker 1: same way we do all these other things that we
Speaker 1: deal with, and we gotta we have to figure out
Speaker 1: how to work it out. And that doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: I don't understand students who in their schools aren't getting
Speaker 1: the proper testing equipment, the proper mask, the proper sanitizing,
Speaker 1: you know, things that they need in support so that
Speaker 1: they can be well. And they're saying hell no, because
Speaker 1: when you say the city has to open up, there's
Speaker 1: there also should be mechanisms for dealing with people who
Speaker 1: have health concerns and challenges. So there's a lot of
Speaker 1: stuff going on. Even with that. I mean, they're shootings happening. Still.
Speaker 1: I think I saw something which I don't watch. I
Speaker 1: don't even your page. I can't it's too traumatic. Um,
Speaker 1: sometimes you have funny stuff on their Well, you have
Speaker 1: something on there that I appreciate the other day, which
Speaker 1: I'll go to that next. But um, but you had
Speaker 1: something on there about a woman being stabbed or yeah,
Speaker 1: in the bronx the of the day. Um, five in
Speaker 1: the morning, two men beat and stabbed the women, just her.
Speaker 1: It didn't seem like they asked us some questions and
Speaker 1: just start stabbing on the back and a torso and beating,
Speaker 1: a kicking. It was just I just don't like, I said,
Speaker 1: co coaches at an old time, huh. And it seems
Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. I've been seeing a
Speaker 1: lot of this in the Bronx where um men are
Speaker 1: just really assaulting, stabbing, cutting, beating, trying to rob women.
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, as men, we have to
Speaker 1: do a lot. We have to do a lot of
Speaker 1: work to take back our communities. Man. People can't feel
Speaker 1: comfortable like we have to make those types of people
Speaker 1: feel like, yo, we can't even be seen out here.
Speaker 1: You know. We have we got to protect our communities, man.
Speaker 1: I think it's time that we definitely got to step
Speaker 1: up and just be those star warks in our community
Speaker 1: that protect our women and children. But it's not just
Speaker 1: um in the Bronx, although the Bronx has really been
Speaker 1: wildent like and it's crazy because I tell people I
Speaker 1: live in the Bronx and they look at me like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, and I mean poverty to you know, poverty.
Speaker 1: We have the highest poverty rate in the in the
Speaker 1: state of New York. I don't know, because upstate it's
Speaker 1: pretty bad. I'm just saying, what that's what they said.
Speaker 1: I just read what they said that it's the poorer. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean maybe, but I'm just saying maybe they're talking
Speaker 1: about in the city, because in the state of New York, upstate,
Speaker 1: there's some places that are it's really really bad. So
Speaker 1: I guess maybe in the city. But nonetheless, it's not
Speaker 1: just there, because we just went to a vigil last
Speaker 1: week for a young girl who was working at Burger
Speaker 1: King and the man went in there and asked her
Speaker 1: to give the money. She gave everything that was in
Speaker 1: the register, and he still shot her to death. So
Speaker 1: it's like it just it never it's never ending. It's
Speaker 1: all across not just the city, it's all across the nation.
Speaker 1: We have to travel this weekend to Las Vegas, where
Speaker 1: there's violence happening. We're hearing that. I was I was saying, well,
Speaker 1: you know, the the organizers were working with. I said, well,
Speaker 1: can we um, you know, go to the hood and
Speaker 1: have our event there, you know, And I was trying
Speaker 1: to work it up and she was like, oh no,
Speaker 1: the shootings are not just happening in the hood. It's
Speaker 1: on the strip, it's in just the regular mall anywhere,
Speaker 1: it's anywhere, and it doesn't make sense. It's not all
Speaker 1: gang related, it's just violence. It's just it's breaking out everywhere.
Speaker 1: And so you know, um, it's a lot happening, and
Speaker 1: I think you know, And we spend a lot of
Speaker 1: time focused on Soldier Boys. Pictures were released and you know,
Speaker 1: we won't talk about that on the show, but honey,
Speaker 1: but anyway, that happens. And then Kodak Black gets a
Speaker 1: lap dance or whatever, turk dance and the thing and
Speaker 1: this happened to happen. And when we're really focused on that,
Speaker 1: you see the comments section light up, and I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying we shouldn't. I'm saying there still needs
Speaker 1: to be joy. There still needs to be things to
Speaker 1: take your mind off the trauma. But when somebody's talking
Speaker 1: about voting rights or talking about other things that matter,
Speaker 1: they are less people engaged. I'm again not trying to
Speaker 1: take away folks ability to enjoy and to take their
Speaker 1: mind off all these other crises. But we have to
Speaker 1: be equally engaged because guess what our opponents, the people
Speaker 1: who work against us, they are They are methodical, strategic,
Speaker 1: they are relentless, they are patient, they spend their money together.
Speaker 1: I mean, these folks are very very much so invested
Speaker 1: in their lives, their world and the world that they
Speaker 1: want to see. They're building it, they're building it, they're
Speaker 1: fighting for it now. And then that brings me to
Speaker 1: the money conversation and what was on your page that
Speaker 1: I did appreciate this Kyrie irving peace. Now all of
Speaker 1: a sudden, well maybe he can play in New York
Speaker 1: if we are willing to pay a find. But that's
Speaker 1: always the thing about it is that that's always been
Speaker 1: It's always been the demandates were but funds because if
Speaker 1: you didn't, if you didn't um follow mandate, then there
Speaker 1: was a fun you had to pay a thousand knowledge,
Speaker 1: then another thousand and two thousands, then ultimately it was
Speaker 1: five five thousand dollars every time. So for me, it's like,
Speaker 1: why wouldn't he just why wouldn't they let him do that? Anyway?
Speaker 1: Because if he's testing and he doesn't have COVID and
Speaker 1: he's playing their games anyway, they are different teams that
Speaker 1: every and it's not the mandate of the NBA anyway,
Speaker 1: you know, the whole NBA doesn't have a mandate it's
Speaker 1: just certain states exactly. Certain states have mandates. So they're
Speaker 1: NBA players who just not vaccinated anyway, and they all
Speaker 1: have to go through the same protocol. Anyway, whether you've
Speaker 1: vaccinated or not, you still have to take the test,
Speaker 1: you still have to clear if you if you catch COVID,
Speaker 1: you're going to COVID protocol. So if if he's still
Speaker 1: doing that and he's willing to play the finds and
Speaker 1: he's not coming to the game of COVID, Like, I
Speaker 1: don't understand the whole big thing, But for me, it's
Speaker 1: like it goes along with everything else in a capitalist
Speaker 1: society that we will sit and say, this is being
Speaker 1: forced on some folks. But these people, long as they
Speaker 1: got the money, they can pay their way out of
Speaker 1: whatever is being forced on the rest of society. I
Speaker 1: was watching, um, you know, I watched several shows. Uh,
Speaker 1: Sandford and Sons one of my big shows. I watched
Speaker 1: it all the time, love it. UM. I also watched
Speaker 1: The Golden Girls, UM, and I watched Andy Griffith Show
Speaker 1: and a few a few others Good Times and the
Speaker 1: jeffer and was it was it the Jeffersons because there
Speaker 1: was the Jefferson's cartoon, and then the Jeffersons the show, right,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm talking about. On man, we're
Speaker 1: moving on us. Okay, the jet But there was the Jeffersons.
Speaker 1: It was the Jetsons. So the Jeffersons. No, so I
Speaker 1: watched I watched those shows. But I watched the and
Speaker 1: the Griffith Show. It's one of my favorites. And in
Speaker 1: the show, Barney gave um uh not opious. It's it's
Speaker 1: one of the guys. I can't remember his name, but
Speaker 1: he works in the car. He's he's fixes the car anyway,
Speaker 1: gave him a ticket for um making a U turn
Speaker 1: in illegal you turn. So he gave him a ticket
Speaker 1: and it was a whole thing, and Barney said, I'll
Speaker 1: give it to my child and give it to my mother.
Speaker 1: You know Barney, He's like anybody could get it. So
Speaker 1: they said okay, and he Barney goes on about his business.
Speaker 1: So one day Barney's pulling out of the station and
Speaker 1: he makes an illegal you turn, and the whole town
Speaker 1: runs up to Barney, led by this guy saying, citizens arrest,
Speaker 1: citizens arrest, citizens arrest. You gotta right yourself and ticket
Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta pay because you were not going
Speaker 1: to an emergency and you made an illegal U turn
Speaker 1: and you the rules don't change for you. So while
Speaker 1: these shows were funny, but it does represent a particular
Speaker 1: point because of course Barney quit his job. He sat
Speaker 1: in the cell, locked himself in the jail. You know,
Speaker 1: he was super super dramatic, right, But it did make
Speaker 1: the point and Andy told him. You told folks that
Speaker 1: this was the rule. So how do the rules all
Speaker 1: of a sudden change when it comes to you. Of
Speaker 1: course it changes because Kyrie is helping them win games.
Speaker 1: So now all of a sudden, But I think, I think,
Speaker 1: I think it's it's a plethora of things, right, it's
Speaker 1: it's Kyrie is helping to win games. As we move
Speaker 1: along in our knowledge of what COVID is and the
Speaker 1: possibility of eliminating it, how it spreads people who actually
Speaker 1: still have the vaccine getting it or and and realizing
Speaker 1: that it's still the same protocol. So when you start realizing,
Speaker 1: and that's why Kyrie came back. Because now if you're
Speaker 1: looking at the NBA, you have a bunch of people
Speaker 1: who have ten day contracts because everybody's on the COVID protocol.
Speaker 1: This person got COVID, so he got to sit out.
Speaker 1: So now they don't even have players, So everybody's still
Speaker 1: dealing with the same thing. It's not like you're eliminating anything.
Speaker 1: So when they when they realize it as well, whether
Speaker 1: you're vaccinated or not, if you don't have COVID and
Speaker 1: you test it, you know what it is going to
Speaker 1: be the difference between the people who do have who
Speaker 1: do have a vaccine or not, because they're still coming
Speaker 1: up with the you know, with COVID and they still
Speaker 1: got to go through the same protocol. So when you
Speaker 1: really think about it, doesn't really make sense that you're
Speaker 1: stopping from playing, especially if he's still going through the
Speaker 1: same protocol. He's still taking the test, he's going through
Speaker 1: all the things. If he doesn't have it, he's already
Speaker 1: had it. He went through the COVID protocol came back.
Speaker 1: I think the biggest point that you made um on
Speaker 1: this is that the NBA does not have an an
Speaker 1: official vaccination policy. So so regardless of whether you agree
Speaker 1: or not, because you're gonna have some people say well, unvaccinated,
Speaker 1: that people create mutations, this, and that you're gonna have
Speaker 1: all of these different discussions and arguments, but the bottom
Speaker 1: line is there is no official mandate that the NBA has.
Speaker 1: A lot of it has to do with the fact
Speaker 1: that you have states with governors and probably owners who
Speaker 1: are not vaccinated themselves, and and even if they are,
Speaker 1: they don't believe in it, they are blocking vaccinations or whatever.
Speaker 1: So it's very political. And at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: the NBA wants to make money and they want to win.
Speaker 1: People want to win games. So that's it. That's what
Speaker 1: it comes down to. And you know, just like Barney,
Speaker 1: the rules got to be the rules, right, So but
Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. The rules have to be the rules.
Speaker 1: If there is no vaccination policy, then you can't go
Speaker 1: say this. One man has to be forced to do it.
Speaker 1: And if he doesn't, and if you do force him
Speaker 1: to do it, he has the right to say I'm
Speaker 1: walking away, right, So there's that. So look, I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna go real quick through this particular point because i
Speaker 1: know what we're talking about, and we've been preparing all weekend, um,
Speaker 1: you know, for this discussion today with these great these
Speaker 1: incredible incredible men leaders um and just you know, thought
Speaker 1: leaders and everything just incredible men. And so you know,
Speaker 1: as we're preparing and thinking through what we will talk about,
Speaker 1: I happen to be in a conversation, you know, Sundays
Speaker 1: and then at my mom and dad's house, my family members,
Speaker 1: a few of them come and uncle on my brother
Speaker 1: UM every Sunday, and so we're sitting just talking and
Speaker 1: talking about life and you know, different things, and casually
Speaker 1: my brother says, yeah, I did UM five years, sixty months,
Speaker 1: he says, in solitary confinement. And I'm like, what, Like,
Speaker 1: first of all, I did my brother's bid. He'll tell
Speaker 1: you I did all his bids since I think you know,
Speaker 1: I don't remember when it first started, but even at
Speaker 1: five and six years old, I knew he was going
Speaker 1: to call on the phone. So I was because you know,
Speaker 1: the phone was busy, there was no core waiting, right,
Speaker 1: So I was the one like, hey, six o'clock, six o'clock,
Speaker 1: you know, Derek. So that's doing a bid with somebody
Speaker 1: when you concerned about when they call. I was concerned
Speaker 1: about his box being. By the time I got to
Speaker 1: ten and twelve, I was going in the grocery store
Speaker 1: with my parents, like he needs these little shrimps. He
Speaker 1: needs this can of this in the tuna and whatever
Speaker 1: whatever it was. I have been involved in every part.
Speaker 1: But then I became a teenager and I started hanging
Speaker 1: in the street. So I must have missed five years
Speaker 1: of when he was in solitary confinement. I can't believe
Speaker 1: that happened to him. And my thought of the day
Speaker 1: today because there I see things about my brother. While
Speaker 1: he's wonderful, he's calmed down, he's getting to be an
Speaker 1: old man now. But I see things about him that
Speaker 1: and not and I don't mean it, you know, because
Speaker 1: he's younger than some of these young cats physically and
Speaker 1: all of that. But he's getting to be an old
Speaker 1: man now, which is a is a good thing, right.
Speaker 1: I wonder what kind of world we would be in
Speaker 1: if there was mental health support, like mandatory therapy for
Speaker 1: people who are coming out of prison, especially if they
Speaker 1: were in solitary confinement, just the same way that it
Speaker 1: should be for our veterans and others who gone through
Speaker 1: traumatic experiences. If we want to live in a world
Speaker 1: where people um do, whether recidivism rate is reduced, right,
Speaker 1: what if everybody had to go to ment get mental
Speaker 1: health support? What if we lived like if America was that,
Speaker 1: how much better would our world be? It would be
Speaker 1: way better. Man, A lot of us are dealing with,
Speaker 1: especially coming from prison. When you talk about that, being
Speaker 1: incarcerated and being in solitary confinement is one of the worst.
Speaker 1: It's it's complete detachment, right. It desensitizes you to so
Speaker 1: many things. It makes you crave seclusion. It makes you
Speaker 1: not want to you know, have um trust issues, It
Speaker 1: makes you have interaction issues. It makes you calculate. It
Speaker 1: makes you really sit and think about things and calculate
Speaker 1: them in a manner that the average person don't. So
Speaker 1: when I sit here and think about what you're saying about,
Speaker 1: because you don't ship Derek being it, and I could
Speaker 1: look at Derek and I could tell that because I
Speaker 1: understand he's a good dude, you know, and he's vibrating
Speaker 1: all these things. But you could see how it affected him.
Speaker 1: You know, you can really see how it affected him.
Speaker 1: And I tell people all the time, you've done more
Speaker 1: than sixty days inside tory confinement. There is a level
Speaker 1: of trauma and mental health that you're dealing with that
Speaker 1: you don't even realize because you start to normalize things
Speaker 1: they're not even normal anymore, you know, so we definitely
Speaker 1: need mental health. I think that should be a requirement.
Speaker 1: I think, I think because we we don't even like
Speaker 1: I find myself talking to certain people and it becomes therapeutic.
Speaker 1: It's only two or three people that I could talk
Speaker 1: to that I feel identify what it is that I've
Speaker 1: been through. I've been through similar things. And I call
Speaker 1: these two or three people and and I and every
Speaker 1: time we talked, I find out something more about myself,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying just listening to them, and
Speaker 1: I'm giving me their perspective, even if we don't agree,
Speaker 1: and we debating back and forth, but it's always therapeutic
Speaker 1: for me. It's always like wow, And I find therapeutic
Speaker 1: just my own solitude. And I think, I don't know
Speaker 1: if that's normal, right. I'm most creative when I'm by myself.
Speaker 1: I'm most creative when I'm just walking alone. I find
Speaker 1: myself in a different space, like I create that, you know,
Speaker 1: and I don't. And sometimes I don't know if it's
Speaker 1: good or bad. You know, it's challenging when you have
Speaker 1: a family and there and and everybody wants engagement or
Speaker 1: you're a part of a project, and people want you
Speaker 1: to be engaged, but I even I have to get
Speaker 1: by myself in order to hear and to and to
Speaker 1: be in tune with my leadership. Um, and you know,
Speaker 1: to read and stay focused. And so I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's a bad thing, but I do know that
Speaker 1: there's some just some some fundamental issues about this country
Speaker 1: that really need to be shifted in order for us
Speaker 1: to be a healthy society. All year we are really
Speaker 1: working to bring in more black male owned businesses. We
Speaker 1: need to hear from black men who have products, services,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, particularly um black men, but everybody anybody,
Speaker 1: but we're looking specifically for black men. And so if
Speaker 1: you have a business, a real business, we tell you
Speaker 1: all the time's got to have like a tax idea
Speaker 1: bank account, real business, please hit us up in the
Speaker 1: d M s at Street Politicians Pod at Street Politicians
Speaker 1: Pod and our team they're in there. They're looking for
Speaker 1: the dopest businesses out there, and we want to be
Speaker 1: able to elevate your platform and to to really bring
Speaker 1: some awareness to your products and services. So, as usual,
Speaker 1: you know, on Street Politicians we have a lot of friends.
Speaker 1: We usually bring our friends to the table and back.
Speaker 1: These three brothers are brothers that I consider friends who
Speaker 1: are very UM, inspirational, motivational, from different walks of life
Speaker 1: and um they've inspired me in different ways. First, I
Speaker 1: would like to introduce my brother, Shakas and Gore, a writer, entrepreneur, speaker,
Speaker 1: inspiring speaker, leading voice in criminal justice reform, and president
Speaker 1: of Shakas and Incorporated. Shaka Um was locked up for
Speaker 1: a homicide ended up doing nineteen years in prison. He
Speaker 1: was released in two thousand and ten after spending seven
Speaker 1: years of his prison sent inside of solitary confinement. He
Speaker 1: wrote a memoir which is a dope memoire. He's recipient
Speaker 1: of numerous awards. I can't even name all awards he got.
Speaker 1: We'll be sitting here doing the whole episode on that.
Speaker 1: But UM, welcome Shakas and Gore to the to the
Speaker 1: panel today. What's going on? Shaka Um, blessed man. Thank
Speaker 1: you all so much for having me. It's good to
Speaker 1: see all faces. I know it's been a while since
Speaker 1: we all been in person, and UH just inspired to
Speaker 1: be here and honored to be here, So thank you
Speaker 1: all for having definitely man, thanks for being here. UM. Next,
Speaker 1: We have another one, a brother that I respect. You know,
Speaker 1: he's the different. He took a different route. He grew
Speaker 1: up where I'm from, my hometown, the Bronx. He's attorney
Speaker 1: Royce Russell Um. He went to Hopstra University where he
Speaker 1: got his lawyer degree, became a criminal defense and civil
Speaker 1: rights lawyer in New York City. He's my lawyer. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. He calls, he does, He's got
Speaker 1: us out of a lot of stuff and got us
Speaker 1: into some more stuff. You know what I'm saying. He
Speaker 1: specialized in criminal defense, false arrest, police brutality, civil rights violations, immigration,
Speaker 1: contract employment, all types of things. He's he's one of
Speaker 1: the dopest lawyers that I know. He also now has
Speaker 1: a book called um Cardiac book is called Cardiac Arrest.
Speaker 1: It's a tactical guy on how to handle unlawful police stops.
Speaker 1: So welcome my brother and friend, Royce Russell to the table.
Speaker 1: Attorney Royce Russell, how you doing, king? Alright? Alright? As
Speaker 1: Shoka said, I'm always I'm very happy to see her
Speaker 1: face with the voice. You know, I always hear the
Speaker 1: voice because we're communicating all the time. But it's nice
Speaker 1: to see the face. And you know, I just try
Speaker 1: to do the right thing by right people when you're
Speaker 1: out here in the streets. So thank you. Well. I
Speaker 1: appreciate that man, because think you said Shocker's book what
Speaker 1: you said? He has a memoir, but it's actually called
Speaker 1: Righting My Wrongs. Right in My Wrongs, Life, Death and
Speaker 1: Redemption in the American Prison. It was released in two
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen and it was a New York Times bestseller.
Speaker 1: I mean, I told you we'll be sitting here talking
Speaker 1: about all the stuff that Sho got forever. I could
Speaker 1: do a lot of stuff. Man Like listen, Shaka always
Speaker 1: calls me with a new idea, got movies plays like Shakers.
Speaker 1: He's definitely he's what He's what you should think about
Speaker 1: when you when you talk about, you know, rehabilitation and
Speaker 1: redemption and coming home from prison. He's a mottel for
Speaker 1: what does should look like, you know, when you come
Speaker 1: home and you evolved to the next level. And this
Speaker 1: brother is also one of those brothers. This is Mr
Speaker 1: Kevin Child's, CEO, co founder of Don Deva magazine. Kevin
Speaker 1: Child's is a previous street pharmacist, turn business person and creator.
Speaker 1: He is most popular for running a medication racket in
Speaker 1: the rows of Harlem during the nineteen eighties. He was
Speaker 1: charged with tax evasion, Opio's trafficking, racketeering, racketeering following the
Speaker 1: supplication bargain. He also served ten years in government prison.
Speaker 1: He opened apparel and boutiques using proceeds from the narcotic
Speaker 1: transactions boss Sneakers and Bossing Porium with two of his
Speaker 1: investments in the nineteen eighties. Child He's also found it
Speaker 1: Big Big Boss Records, his own record label. Um He's
Speaker 1: done so much and now he is the writer of
Speaker 1: a book called The Crack Error, The Rise, Fall in
Speaker 1: the Redemption of Kevin Child's. Welcome Kevin Childs to the
Speaker 1: show today. What's going on? Kevin hey man, Good afternoon,
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen. I'm just on a to be a
Speaker 1: part of the panel. I appreciate the invite, Yes, man, right,
Speaker 1: Black men write books. You know when we thought about
Speaker 1: this show, well, I was just thinking about, you know,
Speaker 1: how different ways that we've evolved. You know, being formally
Speaker 1: incarcerated after spending seven years in prison. You know, we
Speaker 1: get such a bad rap, you know about coming home
Speaker 1: and or being in prisoned. People don't believe that you
Speaker 1: can evolve from that. They have this stigma that you're
Speaker 1: criminal and it's just crime, you know. And what I realized,
Speaker 1: like I told people all the time, when you're a
Speaker 1: drug dealer, you just sell drugs. When you're a hustler,
Speaker 1: you can sell anything, you know, and a lot of
Speaker 1: us were, but naturally hustlers. When we went to jail,
Speaker 1: we just had the wrong product that we were selling,
Speaker 1: you know. So when I when I see brothers like
Speaker 1: Kevin Childs, and I see brothers like Shockers and Goal
Speaker 1: and just the brilliant minds that they are. Like when
Speaker 1: you sit and talk to these brothers, they're brilliant, literally brilliant,
Speaker 1: you know, and they don't and a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't understand the level of brilliance that they've have and
Speaker 1: just seeing the evolution. So I want to utilize my
Speaker 1: platform to be able to elevate these brothers and then
Speaker 1: also bring someone like Royce Russell in the conversation who
Speaker 1: came from the same beginnings that we come from the
Speaker 1: same areas, but he utilized his mentality to do a
Speaker 1: different He took a different route, you know. But it's
Speaker 1: when you I'm telling you. These brothers are all similar.
Speaker 1: I speak to them and have conversations, and they all
Speaker 1: have the similar mindframe and they're all about the same thing.
Speaker 1: So I just wanted to talk about their books, talk
Speaker 1: about their evolution, talk about their processes, you know, and
Speaker 1: just give them some praise, man, and utilize our platform.
Speaker 1: Now all about the praise for black men. So let's
Speaker 1: jump right into it. So why don't we talk about
Speaker 1: the books? UM? You know what what encouraged you Shotgun,
Speaker 1: Kevin Um and Royce to write your books? Um? You
Speaker 1: know the first of all the titles of each book
Speaker 1: are It's very powerful, um. And so maybe we should
Speaker 1: start their you know what encouraged you to to um
Speaker 1: to to write a book and then title it what
Speaker 1: you did? So let's start with Shaka, thank you so
Speaker 1: much and so good to seat to make. Uh. So,
Speaker 1: my first book, which is my first main stream release,
Speaker 1: not the first book that I wrote. UM. Writing My
Speaker 1: Wrongs was inspired by a couple of things. One, I
Speaker 1: was really fortunate when I was in prison and have
Speaker 1: incredible mentors who guided me the books. And I used
Speaker 1: to tell this story that the most important book I
Speaker 1: read was Malcolm X's autobiography, and I realized that wasn't true.
Speaker 1: The most important book I read was Donald Gorn's Dope
Speaker 1: Pin because he was writing about the inner city and
Speaker 1: writing about the reality that I had actually came from.
Speaker 1: And that book led me to read Malcolm X's autobiography.
Speaker 1: So I have a deep passionate love for writers in general.
Speaker 1: You know, the legacy of brilliant writers, the James Baldwin's
Speaker 1: and Alex Hadez of the world and Manya Angelo, who
Speaker 1: you know is the Queen's you know to me when
Speaker 1: it comes to a personal narrative of So that energy
Speaker 1: of writing as a way of healing was something that
Speaker 1: was deeply embedded. And then it was a Kanye song.
Speaker 1: I was listening to this verse when he was like,
Speaker 1: it's funny how these songs helped me write my wrongs
Speaker 1: and some iteration of that, and I was like, man,
Speaker 1: it's a brilliant title for a book, because I started
Speaker 1: off journaling first before I even wrote a book, because
Speaker 1: I had to heal from the traumatic experience of being
Speaker 1: incarcerated at a young age. You know, the traumatic experience
Speaker 1: of actually taking someone's life, something that we don't talk about,
Speaker 1: you know, we often talk about the trauma of being,
Speaker 1: you know, the victim of gun violence, but we don't
Speaker 1: talk about the long enduring trauma when you take somebody's
Speaker 1: life and how that continues to stay and endure no
Speaker 1: matter what. You know, if I robbed somebody, I could
Speaker 1: get him back what I took, but you can never
Speaker 1: you know, restore life in that way. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: I thought it was really important to share that. And
Speaker 1: you know, as you may know, I have a new
Speaker 1: book coming out, let Us to the Sons of Society. Uh,
Speaker 1: And that title came from being inspired by the letters
Speaker 1: my dad wrote me while I was in prison. Um,
Speaker 1: we wrote, you know for nineteen years. We often don't
Speaker 1: hear the story of black fathers or fathers in general,
Speaker 1: who stand by the children's side through adversity. And my dad,
Speaker 1: you know, wrote me for nineteen years. We exchanged letters,
Speaker 1: we argued, we debated, we joked, UM, and I wanted
Speaker 1: to you know, really memorialize the world that we live
Speaker 1: in for my two sons, one who's thirty years old
Speaker 1: and one who's ten years old. M So, what was so,
Speaker 1: I know, you have a new book that you're you're releasing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you just said, it's a new book. What is it
Speaker 1: called again? Call Letters to the Sons of Society? The Honesty,
Speaker 1: Freedom and Love. So where are you? So you're in
Speaker 1: the writing process now or you finished? Now it's done?
Speaker 1: It actually comes out Tuesday. How many how many books
Speaker 1: you would you say that you've written that you haven't released?
Speaker 1: So originally I started off self publishing our self publish
Speaker 1: for then went to mainstream publishing. But I got a
Speaker 1: total of about eight catalogs. My goal is to d
Speaker 1: ten um and I'll be re releasing some of my
Speaker 1: earlier work at a future dates. That's dope. So, Kevin Kevi,
Speaker 1: what what was your inspiration behind your book? The title?
Speaker 1: You know, just give us a little peep into your
Speaker 1: brain about what you're thinking about. Um, well, let me
Speaker 1: back up a little bit. You know, Uh, Don Diva
Speaker 1: I created when I was incos redd and the reason
Speaker 1: for me doing that was that I realized that how
Speaker 1: our communities weren't aware of certain information that you know,
Speaker 1: that caused me to make some bad decisions in my life.
Speaker 1: So the creation of that started while I was incose reading.
Speaker 1: So for almost twenty years now, we've been publishing Don
Speaker 1: Diva and Our motto was like, you know, we are
Speaker 1: educated and entertained, you know, and it encompasses away creatively
Speaker 1: that we provide information that wouldn't ordinarily be read readily available,
Speaker 1: you know, some of the pitfalls that happened our communities,
Speaker 1: from everything from uh, repairing your credit to some of
Speaker 1: the laws that we often find about we found out
Speaker 1: about after we inconcerated, you know. Having said that fast forward, UH,
Speaker 1: to be quite honest with you, you you had a lot
Speaker 1: to doo with me write in this book to be
Speaker 1: honest with you, like so, um, that's the situation that
Speaker 1: you're quite away when you went up to ninety seven,
Speaker 1: which caused me that they have to go up there
Speaker 1: to to to expound on what you what you have
Speaker 1: been talking about. Um. I realized after that interview that
Speaker 1: it seemed like people was interested in and what I
Speaker 1: had to say and me more personally. So I think
Speaker 1: probably days after that, I was encouraged to start writing.
Speaker 1: So from the time that I was up there, which
Speaker 1: was like in twenty sixteen, I think maybe the next
Speaker 1: two years I spent um, you know, just writing more
Speaker 1: specifically about the time period and myself. UM. But that
Speaker 1: derived from my invitation to come up to High ninety
Speaker 1: seven after you had came, can tell us the story,
Speaker 1: like we all want to know it happened. Well, so
Speaker 1: basically what he's talking about and I and I never
Speaker 1: knew this, you know what I'm saying, so that I'm
Speaker 1: honored to even be able to inspire something like that. Um,
Speaker 1: when I did my freestyle on High ninety seven, I
Speaker 1: talked about a lot of the intricates of the streets
Speaker 1: and I'm talking about the freestyle that everybody the whole
Speaker 1: world was and just broke down certain principles, you know,
Speaker 1: about snitching and certain people that were glorified in the culture.
Speaker 1: And um, Kevi being from that era and that culture
Speaker 1: was one of the people that that when I talked
Speaker 1: about certain situations that happened, flex has said something about it.
Speaker 1: And then UM, it went into what we need to
Speaker 1: get Kevin Child's up here so he can have and
Speaker 1: listen to what he talks about. So Kevin somebody that's
Speaker 1: been respected in the streets and just in the culture
Speaker 1: in general, you know. And um, we set up the
Speaker 1: interview to where he went up to High ninety seven
Speaker 1: and he asked him about principle in the streets and
Speaker 1: what makes this snitching? And what are these certain rules
Speaker 1: and codes? And he just broke it down so eloquently,
Speaker 1: you know, a way that even I couldn't do it,
Speaker 1: because he just has a different understanding the way that
Speaker 1: he he just you just hear him speak and where
Speaker 1: he put like a street farmer says, most people don't
Speaker 1: say street farm us. But this is just how keV
Speaker 1: you know, he presents things. So when he went up there,
Speaker 1: he broke it down. And UM, I guess, like he said,
Speaker 1: just having that conversation and seeing how people were interested
Speaker 1: and just understanding how he thought and how he perceived things,
Speaker 1: and he just put it into books. So that Wow,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. I'm honored to have had anything to do
Speaker 1: with that. Man. I appreciate that. Well. I'm happy that
Speaker 1: it occurred that way, because I would have never did it.
Speaker 1: Like I said, we have been publishing this magazine for
Speaker 1: over twenty years and and we have been um interview
Speaker 1: on certain individuals that you know, I felt that the
Speaker 1: community have found very interesting to help to deliver our message.
Speaker 1: And at no point in time that I ever put
Speaker 1: much of the emphasis on myself for the most part,
Speaker 1: So like I said, coming coming from that interview and
Speaker 1: seeing how well it was received and they're going viral.
Speaker 1: I was encouraged thereafter, like with Kevi, you you probably
Speaker 1: need to do something like that, and I put pen
Speaker 1: to paper and that's really how that came about. Wow. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's very very encouraging to hear that story and how
Speaker 1: everything connected, you know, And it's crazy that that your
Speaker 1: freestyle was in two thousand and sixteen. That's been it
Speaker 1: seems time just flying by. But that's a whole different day,
Speaker 1: a whole different conversation about the universe. So Royce, tell
Speaker 1: us about your book. I mean, I know a lot
Speaker 1: about about cardiac the rest, and just so happy you
Speaker 1: took the time to sit down and really in your
Speaker 1: own way, right the letters to our sons, right, So
Speaker 1: talk about your experience with writing the book. But one
Speaker 1: of the things that you guys mentioned earlier, the song
Speaker 1: my song, you're talking about, you know, being a hustler
Speaker 1: and being an entrepreneur. I think all those things is
Speaker 1: something that we have in common, but also the cultural tie. Right,
Speaker 1: you could be an entrepreneur have no cultural tie, and
Speaker 1: although you might be financially successful, you really meaningless in
Speaker 1: your soul. So when I looked at cardiac arrest, I
Speaker 1: did look at one, the cultural tie between me and
Speaker 1: the community. And number two, you know, as a business person,
Speaker 1: what does my community need is the void? Right? What
Speaker 1: do we need to learn? Right? And so in doing that,
Speaker 1: I'm saying, but we're marching, We're talking what is going
Speaker 1: to be the long lasting document or documents that folks
Speaker 1: can have over a period of time to read, to,
Speaker 1: to go to. We had the Green Book, we have
Speaker 1: the Bible. We have a bunch of books out there
Speaker 1: and guides out there to help us through life. So
Speaker 1: looking at it from a cultural and the academic and
Speaker 1: and an awareness perspective, when you know you have larrrangitis,
Speaker 1: Tamika has laryerrangized, and you're not out there in the
Speaker 1: in the forefront speaking where we're getting the information from?
Speaker 1: Right when you're time is divided and you're doing other things.
Speaker 1: Where are we getting this information from? How could we
Speaker 1: make this information with us? Take take up with us
Speaker 1: all day every day. And that's how I came to
Speaker 1: cardiac arrest. I mean you mentioned the title. The title
Speaker 1: is is really just an example of our life as
Speaker 1: people of brown and black color skin out here in America,
Speaker 1: when police stop you, whether you're driving or whether you're walking,
Speaker 1: you do have the same symptoms that you have. And
Speaker 1: when you think you're having a heart attack, your hands
Speaker 1: get sweaty, your blood your your your blood pressure goes up.
Speaker 1: You know, you start thinking about, well, at least for me,
Speaker 1: what I did in the past, what my future is
Speaker 1: gonna look like, what's going on with the present. So
Speaker 1: it is, if not a death experience, it's definitely a
Speaker 1: near death experience, right, and your heart stopped. And so
Speaker 1: that's where I got cardiac from. The arrest came from,
Speaker 1: because really, is the situation resolved where you're not arrested,
Speaker 1: Something's gonna happen. The cuffs are coming somewhere. And we
Speaker 1: can define what arrest means, whether that means process down
Speaker 1: at the precinct, or whether that means standing in handcuffs
Speaker 1: in front of your car or in front of your
Speaker 1: loved ones on the street or on the alley. It
Speaker 1: still is what it is. So how do we perpetuate that?
Speaker 1: You know? And so I went and wrote the book
Speaker 1: based upon my experiences growing up in the Bronx, growing
Speaker 1: up in an area that is not serviced growing up
Speaker 1: in the in the projects, as they say, and kind
Speaker 1: of extrapolate on that and my experience as being in
Speaker 1: a civil rights attorney. We translate that book into Spanish,
Speaker 1: and now we have a workbook where brothers and sisters
Speaker 1: can sit down and they can look at questions, look
Speaker 1: at answers, multiple choice A, B and C. Pick an answer.
Speaker 1: We can have a discussion why the answer is right
Speaker 1: or wrong? Or are there two answers that are the same.
Speaker 1: You just happen to pick one and I just happen
Speaker 1: to pick another. And then have a process where they
Speaker 1: can do critical thinking. They can write down their thoughts
Speaker 1: of what they see, how they vision their community, how
Speaker 1: can they become a leader, you know, using analytical skills,
Speaker 1: you know, understanding how the constitution works with you actually
Speaker 1: being arrested. So although we're having changed for those here
Speaker 1: who may or may not know in New York City,
Speaker 1: from an educational standpoint, we see how far, we will
Speaker 1: see how far change comes, because this should be part
Speaker 1: of our education system, because it combines the reality of
Speaker 1: what's happening to most people that didn't live in America,
Speaker 1: and it gives you an education of civics and critical thinking.
Speaker 1: So that's how I got to where I am. That's dope.
Speaker 1: And when I'm listening to you, it correlates and connects
Speaker 1: to what was saying. What he was doing with Dan Dieva,
Speaker 1: like giving knowledge about laws, insist things in the system
Speaker 1: that he didn't he wasn't privy to until he actually
Speaker 1: went to prison. So he utilized the magazine to give
Speaker 1: information and entertained at the same time. And just you're
Speaker 1: doing the same thing, utilize in this book to you know,
Speaker 1: inform people about how the system works and certain things
Speaker 1: to do with the system. So I told you that
Speaker 1: you have so much connection and have so many similarities.
Speaker 1: That's dope. But um Shoka and keV and and the
Speaker 1: titles of your books, there's the word redemption, you know,
Speaker 1: and I just want to know y'all expand what does
Speaker 1: redemption look like to you? How do you feel like
Speaker 1: you redeemed? You are redeemed, or do you feel like
Speaker 1: it's gonna take loan You're never gonna be redeemed. And
Speaker 1: if if you do feel like you're not redeemed, that
Speaker 1: you can be redeemed, what what will it look like?
Speaker 1: What would you have to do to be redeemed. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna start Kevin, you wanna go, um feel free? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I think my redemption took place far before
Speaker 1: I got out of prison, because it really had to
Speaker 1: come from within my community, and they had to come
Speaker 1: from our people. I never thought that the system itself
Speaker 1: would give me a second chance, and even at this
Speaker 1: point in my career. Uh, there's tons of obstacles that
Speaker 1: stand in a way of just living a normal life, right. Um.
Speaker 1: And that's kind of part for the course when you
Speaker 1: think about being black in America. But just for an example,
Speaker 1: you know, people don't know that if you have a felony,
Speaker 1: it's hard to get life insurance, it's hard to get
Speaker 1: home insurance. Uh. It as a homeowner and as someone
Speaker 1: who wants to ensure that I protect my my son. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, and even in my demise, those things are
Speaker 1: are obstacles there, you know, things that we have to navigate.
Speaker 1: So I never have thought that the system itself will
Speaker 1: be open to allowing us to to, you know, redeem ourselves.
Speaker 1: But for me, it was really about community. And a
Speaker 1: lot of my work started while I was in prison.
Speaker 1: You know, Um, I had you know, these older brothers
Speaker 1: who challenged me, you know, and they challenged me to
Speaker 1: grow when I was the hothead on the yard and
Speaker 1: eventually became like one of the main shot callers on
Speaker 1: the yard, and I was operating out of those broken
Speaker 1: motions of anger and violence and getting them more troubles
Speaker 1: while I ended up, you know, serving seven years of
Speaker 1: salitary confinement. But those brothers always saw something redeemable in it,
Speaker 1: and they poured into me, and they fared me books
Speaker 1: and they challenged my ideas. You know, I tell people,
Speaker 1: I used to go to the to the librarian, um,
Speaker 1: you know, every week, and I would battle with these
Speaker 1: older brothers. You know, we would have these intense debates
Speaker 1: around books that they had selected, in books that I
Speaker 1: had selected, and because I read relatively fast, they would
Speaker 1: often think that I didn't read the books, and so
Speaker 1: they would grill me, like, yo, okay, what was Malcolm
Speaker 1: talking about on this phase? What did Marcus Garvey mean
Speaker 1: about that? You know what I'm saying. And then they
Speaker 1: were swinging to philosophy. You know what is Tyler, you
Speaker 1: know Zoo talking about over here? And so that just
Speaker 1: sharpened me. But it also grew me. And even though
Speaker 1: I was rebellious. You know, I caught thirty six misconducts
Speaker 1: when I was in prison. Um when I needed that wisdom,
Speaker 1: when I was ready to transform my life, all of
Speaker 1: that they had poured into me came rushing back to me.
Speaker 1: And so that's where redemption started. I was an organizer
Speaker 1: in prison. I actually talked about it, uh in my
Speaker 1: new book and one of the chapters about resistance, and
Speaker 1: I remember us organizing three hundred men on the yard
Speaker 1: because we was tat of these two officers who was
Speaker 1: just running rough shot over people. And I was smart
Speaker 1: enough to know that if we just vitally attacked them,
Speaker 1: we're definitely getting shot down. So what I did is
Speaker 1: I figured out a way to bend the rules and
Speaker 1: basically organized in groups of six and we all did exercise,
Speaker 1: but they were all different exercises, but we all did
Speaker 1: one cadence and that wasn't technically illegal, but the voice
Speaker 1: of three hundred men speaking in cadence at one time
Speaker 1: in the prison yard completely shook the prison up, and
Speaker 1: they knew that they had to dress that. So, to me,
Speaker 1: redemption started well before I walked out of prison. You know,
Speaker 1: I started writing before I walked out of prison, and
Speaker 1: then I came home as a servant in my community,
Speaker 1: in which I still serve our mentor all across the country. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, I've helped build organized as I'm a supporter
Speaker 1: and a resource for many organizations. And so to me,
Speaker 1: it's really just about what my people think, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Uh, Because the system, you know, they
Speaker 1: don't really care, you know, to the degree in which
Speaker 1: you know we would identify as redemptive. Well, keV, So
Speaker 1: what does redemption look like to you? Um? For me,
Speaker 1: redemption is as as a personal perspective. For me, I
Speaker 1: don't ever think that, um, I was a bad person.
Speaker 1: You know, I feel as though I made certain choices
Speaker 1: that egregiously affected people in my community. But for me,
Speaker 1: I've always considered myself to be a decent person, and
Speaker 1: I think they had a lot to do with how
Speaker 1: my outcome because I've always treated people more than fair.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, what when I started thinking about it
Speaker 1: in the term more specific redemption, you know, it was,
Speaker 1: like I said, it was a personal It was a
Speaker 1: personal endeavor for me and my family. You know, I
Speaker 1: wanted my family to forgive me from not for for
Speaker 1: for my absence in their lives and not being able
Speaker 1: to raise my kids for a certain amount of time.
Speaker 1: You know, I sat with that for a long time
Speaker 1: in prison, because my intention was always to take care
Speaker 1: of my family. Then the exact opposite end up ultimately
Speaker 1: happened when I wasn't there to protect them or to
Speaker 1: take care of them, you know. So I wanted first
Speaker 1: and foremost my family to forgive me, you know, because
Speaker 1: my my decisions and choice caused me not to be
Speaker 1: there to be a father to my children and to
Speaker 1: raise them and to provide the things that I always
Speaker 1: wanted to have. I always wanted them to have a
Speaker 1: better life than I had. I knew some of the
Speaker 1: choices that I made and life was just due to
Speaker 1: circumstances and my reality of what they was. And it
Speaker 1: was all with good intentions, you know. Um, So I
Speaker 1: was on a personal crusade to do that. So from
Speaker 1: the day that I walked out of prison, there's no
Speaker 1: way to make it for time, but I spent every
Speaker 1: moment trying to get my life back together, and and
Speaker 1: and and and provide the right example for my my
Speaker 1: sons and of course my daughter. So I spent every
Speaker 1: moment just trying to do the right thing, and you know,
Speaker 1: and and actually begged them for forgiveness ultimately, you know,
Speaker 1: because like stated just presently, redemption has has a different
Speaker 1: look for certain people, like society may never may never
Speaker 1: consider me redeemable. You know. Um, I made a way
Speaker 1: when I came home to to move my family to
Speaker 1: the fluent neighborhood, to create the opportunity for my kids
Speaker 1: to go to the fluent schools to get a better education.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, these opportunities wasn't provided to me for
Speaker 1: society because I don't think society will ever forgive me
Speaker 1: or give me the opportunity that I feel I deserve.
Speaker 1: So I had to sort of take what I wanted.
Speaker 1: But more importantly, like I said, I think my celsade
Speaker 1: was to get my family to understand that the choices
Speaker 1: that I made wasn't because I didn't want to be
Speaker 1: absent in the household. And children, especially young and presentable children,
Speaker 1: they don't sort of understand it. All they understand is
Speaker 1: that you're you wasn't present, You wasn't there, you know.
Speaker 1: So I think I spent every week and moment trying
Speaker 1: to get uh to be forgiven by my media family
Speaker 1: and my children more specifically, you know, and ultimately, UM,
Speaker 1: I think I think it's showing up that way, you know,
Speaker 1: so resumption that's sort of like what it means to me,
Speaker 1: you know, primarily more focused. It's so interesting that in
Speaker 1: both um stories, in both statements, you hold both of
Speaker 1: you hold redemption so close to the heart because there
Speaker 1: are so many people who live every day for the world.
Speaker 1: They live for society, live for what the people gonna say,
Speaker 1: what they the days, and we talk all the time
Speaker 1: about who is they, UM, and to hear you make
Speaker 1: it really personal that redemption is about the people around you,
Speaker 1: your own community, you know, those folks who have poured
Speaker 1: so much into you and your development, and then for
Speaker 1: there to be something that happens that harms those individuals
Speaker 1: that you see redemption as working on that first UM.
Speaker 1: And I think that's something that so many of our
Speaker 1: young men can learn from. And in fact, my son
Speaker 1: is twenty two, UM, and I often have conversations with him,
Speaker 1: looking Royce is his lawyer to let's we won't get
Speaker 1: into why Royce is his lawyer, but he is definitely
Speaker 1: also my son's you know, protector in terms of trying
Speaker 1: to keep his mind straight, Um, And there's been so
Speaker 1: many times that I have told him about carrying our
Speaker 1: last name as a family. You know that the way
Speaker 1: in which he operates in the world, that when he
Speaker 1: shows up, people need to know that a Mallory child.
Speaker 1: Although he shares his father's last name, which is Ryan's,
Speaker 1: but nonetheless people know that he's my child, and he
Speaker 1: is the grandson of Stanley and von Still, who are
Speaker 1: stellar leaders in the community, and that rather than trying
Speaker 1: to please the world, you have to first work on
Speaker 1: securing and and helping to Um. You know, really put
Speaker 1: respect on the name that you come from. So I
Speaker 1: think for us, Um, that's a message that young black
Speaker 1: men have to hear constantly from us so that they
Speaker 1: focus more on the inner rather than Instagram and what
Speaker 1: the world is telling them. It's definitely true, man Um.
Speaker 1: Just listening to all of you and the perspectives that
Speaker 1: you have is just enlightening. I just want to know,
Speaker 1: Um Shoka. You know, I know that you do a
Speaker 1: lot of work and we do similar work with mentoring.
Speaker 1: How how do you approach because a lot of people
Speaker 1: approach mentoring different. When you have conversations with young men
Speaker 1: that probably are in similar situations or similar mind states
Speaker 1: that you had when you were young, and you see
Speaker 1: them going down this path, Like, what's the mind state
Speaker 1: that you approach them? How do you deal with that?
Speaker 1: Because we talked as we're talking about to make a
Speaker 1: soun like we need a little strategy to try to
Speaker 1: just like, what what is your strategy? Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I think I approach everything from trauma informed care. You know,
Speaker 1: I was an honor roll scholarship student with all the
Speaker 1: potential in the world and a series of traumatic events
Speaker 1: after in my life being abused in the household to
Speaker 1: being shot at a young age. And so when I'm
Speaker 1: working with young people, for one, I learned to listen
Speaker 1: more than I talk. I think our instinct is to
Speaker 1: try to correct and try to I and I've just
Speaker 1: started to listen because typically when you listen, you can
Speaker 1: start to unravel the mystery behind young people, right. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then it's also detached ego. I don't have my
Speaker 1: ego attached to any outcomes. At the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I had to serve a sentence, and so I'm very
Speaker 1: cleativeve you if a young person is intent on making
Speaker 1: poor decisions, like you can't attach your ego to that,
Speaker 1: otherwise you'll drive yourself crazy. And so it's ego list mentoring,
Speaker 1: it's intentional listening, but it's really through the lens of
Speaker 1: trauma informed care, really understanding what has happened to our children,
Speaker 1: what they've been exposed to, where there are points of
Speaker 1: pain are at uh, you know, especially with family. You know,
Speaker 1: I I'm parenting you know, my ten year old um,
Speaker 1: his mom and I haven't been together for seven years.
Speaker 1: So I understanding that that was a fracture early on
Speaker 1: that I had to be intentional about how do I
Speaker 1: co parent in a way that's healing, healthy, and that's
Speaker 1: rooted in the love for him, and thinking about the
Speaker 1: young men that I mentored, a young women. I mentored
Speaker 1: a lot of young ladies as well. It's understanding what
Speaker 1: is what is that trauma story, what is that origin story? Uh,
Speaker 1: and what is their aspirational story? And so a lot
Speaker 1: of times just listening and really hearing where they're coming from,
Speaker 1: but also being willing to be vulnerable and be honest
Speaker 1: and to not glorify past decisions. Like you know, I
Speaker 1: was convicted of second to degree murder when I was
Speaker 1: nineteen years old, and you know, I understand the culture,
Speaker 1: you know, the the whole. You know, how we celebrate
Speaker 1: the psychotic behaviors that exists in our community, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, and how we elevate that right. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I was put on a pedestal in the
Speaker 1: hood as as a as a shooter. Um. And so
Speaker 1: for me really getting them to understand, there was the
Speaker 1: prison sentence, but then there's the reality of you know,
Speaker 1: this is something I live with every day. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. My brother was murdered last summer, and
Speaker 1: I couldn't properly agree because I'm know I made a
Speaker 1: family feel the way that that that our family was feeling,
Speaker 1: and so trying to unravel you know, that reality for
Speaker 1: them in a way that's honest, that's transparent, is not
Speaker 1: about glorifying, you know, like, yes, I got shot. In
Speaker 1: the story, we hear what'sbody get shot? It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know I did this and I had to get back.
Speaker 1: What we don't here is that when I was sitting
Speaker 1: in the hospital bed that I was afraid because I
Speaker 1: was really a kid. You know, seventeen years old, you're
Speaker 1: a kid. But when the stories are retold, oftentimes they're
Speaker 1: glorified as if we are void of emotions, as if
Speaker 1: we're a void of fear, or as if we don't
Speaker 1: experience sadness. And so that listening you started to tune
Speaker 1: in and then language is so important. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: when I talked to the young brothers, I intentionally call
Speaker 1: them brothers. I don't call them you know what up
Speaker 1: my little nigga because that that that word as much
Speaker 1: as we used in our culture, and it's not to
Speaker 1: be you know, it is what it is, but it
Speaker 1: also creates uh a barrier between emotional honesty. And I
Speaker 1: think when when I when I've talked to these young brothers,
Speaker 1: they can't wait to be hugged by a man, like
Speaker 1: a man that stands in the authenticity of his manhood
Speaker 1: with love and an emotional growth and maturity like these
Speaker 1: younger brothers crave that and they're afraid to seek it out.
Speaker 1: So we have to be seeking out how to give
Speaker 1: it to him. But we have to listen. First. Let
Speaker 1: me ask you, Royce, just thinking of you know me
Speaker 1: saying that you have worked with Tarke and I have
Speaker 1: called you many times late night, like can you talk
Speaker 1: to him? You know, can you help to translate things
Speaker 1: that I have not been able to articulate well, um,
Speaker 1: and you know, and also just to help him see
Speaker 1: what the end result of, you know, not not coming
Speaker 1: home on time. Nobody knows where you are these types
Speaker 1: of things like what can happen. I'm assuming that you
Speaker 1: have so many clients that you are, you know, that
Speaker 1: you're defending and working with professionally, that you take you
Speaker 1: have to stop and take time to also mentor and
Speaker 1: try to work them through some of them the mental
Speaker 1: and emotional challenges that they're facing. So tell us what
Speaker 1: that looks like for you and your work and how
Speaker 1: exhausting is it as a black man. Do you feel
Speaker 1: like it's your responsibility to do that with the young
Speaker 1: with you know, people that you are working with your clients? Well,
Speaker 1: first of all, you do a great job with giving
Speaker 1: your son advice. It's just that where he's hearing it from, right,
Speaker 1: It's not the advice in and of itself that is
Speaker 1: not good advice. It's who I'm hearing it from and
Speaker 1: whether or not I want to give credence to that
Speaker 1: because I'm a male and she's a female. Despite what
Speaker 1: you do in the world, right, and then it takes
Speaker 1: a little bit of yeah, I heard that before. I
Speaker 1: remember when my mom said that, you mean like this
Speaker 1: has been going on for generations. Yeah, this has been
Speaker 1: going on for generations, and this is how you're going
Speaker 1: to have to deal with it. And I think once
Speaker 1: those who are younger see someone that is older saying yeah,
Speaker 1: I had that experience and this is how I went
Speaker 1: through that experience, then it shows a different light. But
Speaker 1: I can never be as eloquent to reflect what Shaka
Speaker 1: just said in reference to how you go about being
Speaker 1: this mentor, because what you're speaking to is as an attorney,
Speaker 1: that's exactly what I am. Because most of the people
Speaker 1: that I represent young, old, in between people of color,
Speaker 1: I'm probably maybe the first or second time they've had
Speaker 1: an attorney as an African American. They've had leaguay, they've
Speaker 1: had neighborhood defenders, they had the attorney at their family
Speaker 1: thought was gonna do the right thing, and usually that's
Speaker 1: not a person of color. So then here I come
Speaker 1: walking through the door right intentionally, unintentionally referral you name it,
Speaker 1: and now they're seeing, maybe for the first time, someone
Speaker 1: of color that is talking about the things that they did.
Speaker 1: Then you add on top of that once I get
Speaker 1: to let them know me, because that's what comes first, right,
Speaker 1: They're not gonna, you know, tear down their guard. That
Speaker 1: that the defenses there has always been there. You gotta
Speaker 1: be there every day, twenty four hours, seven days a week.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be there when I get finished talking to
Speaker 1: them they go upstairs. It is then when they come
Speaker 1: down and the elevator to have their legal consultation, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be there. So somebody has a chair down the wall,
Speaker 1: and so as we have in the conversation. Then they realized, oh,
Speaker 1: you grew up in the bronx, but they realized he
Speaker 1: was shot at or you did go to press school. Oh,
Speaker 1: but you're all sat together, all of the five blacks
Speaker 1: that you had in your class out of thirty five
Speaker 1: or sixty white you're sat together. You're eight lunths together.
Speaker 1: It's a different type of incarceration, but all the attributes
Speaker 1: that look quite similar, the congregation, the isolation, the and
Speaker 1: at the age fourteen, when you don't really understand racism
Speaker 1: and you really understand classism and how that works together,
Speaker 1: and somebody comes with you and say the wrong thing,
Speaker 1: and next thing you know they're on the floor and
Speaker 1: they're almost dead because they hit their head on the
Speaker 1: marble table because you did something. And the isolation that
Speaker 1: comes after that when you start to relay those stories
Speaker 1: and you start to talk about people that they may
Speaker 1: have heard of, that you hung out with or that
Speaker 1: you were in in the presence of but just for
Speaker 1: whatever reason you left a little bit earlier, right, you know,
Speaker 1: those things start to resonate. So what I do in
Speaker 1: my practice and what I do every day, whether it's
Speaker 1: mentoring or whether it's advising, is that we're gonna walk
Speaker 1: to walk together. That's just what we gotta do. We're
Speaker 1: gonna walk to walk together. And I'm gonna call you
Speaker 1: on things that it just flat out what are you
Speaker 1: talking about? Like what are you saying? Like what what
Speaker 1: are you really saying? This is what you're saying, because
Speaker 1: now that's not what's really right. And then there's gonna
Speaker 1: be some things, and it's gonna be a lot of
Speaker 1: things that as we talk about trauma, like I never
Speaker 1: really saw it that way because I don't see myself
Speaker 1: being traumatized, right, but I us right to a certain degree,
Speaker 1: and I don't blame anybody for it. You got seven
Speaker 1: people in a three bedroom apartment, one bathroom, and when
Speaker 1: you can study is in the bathroom. You can't study
Speaker 1: anywhere else. TVs Two loud music too on, you can't stay.
Speaker 1: You would confine in that bathroom. That's probably five five five.
Speaker 1: And if someone goes to the bathroom and does something,
Speaker 1: you can't go back into the bathroom and study. You're
Speaker 1: sitting on the edge of a tub, reading on a hamper.
Speaker 1: It sounds pretty isolation to me. It sounds like you
Speaker 1: isolated to me, different once again, never the same, but
Speaker 1: kind of the the but and then and then, and
Speaker 1: then you're sitting inside of an apartment that is located
Speaker 1: inside of a housing projects where everything is going on,
Speaker 1: and there's trauma that exists just from being in proximity
Speaker 1: to our communities, and you know what's had no matter
Speaker 1: what you're doing. I was a kid who grew up
Speaker 1: in a household that was very different from my neighbors. Right,
Speaker 1: we didn't have um, it wasn't well, you know, and
Speaker 1: and that's relative. I was gonna say, we didn't have
Speaker 1: drug addicts like in in our home, like my parents
Speaker 1: weren't drug addicts. But the truth is Uncle Jimmy, who
Speaker 1: came every Sunday, was a crack addict and they had aids.
Speaker 1: He had to sit in one space in the house
Speaker 1: where he was he had He was also homeless. He
Speaker 1: was bleeding my mother, you know, but she was still
Speaker 1: gonna let him in. So he was being taken care of.
Speaker 1: My brother was in and out of the system. Shot
Speaker 1: this one, This happened, that happened. He's in jail, back
Speaker 1: and forth. And while they were my parents, my father
Speaker 1: was a correction officer, my mother was working for taxi
Speaker 1: and limousine commissioned. They were good people. We were the
Speaker 1: best of the best in the building. But we still
Speaker 1: lived in Manhattanville projects. So the trauma is still there. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and then so and so then when you leave that restroom,
Speaker 1: that bathroom, everybody is talking about how they want you
Speaker 1: to be a success, but nobody is giving you the
Speaker 1: means to be successful. You're old in my way, like
Speaker 1: like wait, so you translate that to people that you
Speaker 1: come across, at least in my practice, right, and we
Speaker 1: you know, we kind of focus on the young folks,
Speaker 1: but really I'm talking to men at fifty six, thirty five,
Speaker 1: thirty four and and no matter what the decade is.
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, that happened, and and you know, sixty
Speaker 1: five and like you're still doing this at sixty five,
Speaker 1: And I'm amazed sometime at myself and shockuld probably can
Speaker 1: speak this and that stually be coming to speak to
Speaker 1: how I'm speaking to some people in some type of
Speaker 1: way that I know if they wanted to do something
Speaker 1: in a minute, it could be over, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like like if they really wanted to do something,
Speaker 1: they really want to like you know what you're talking
Speaker 1: to me some type of way. I know where your
Speaker 1: office is. This can be a situation. The reason why
Speaker 1: you can do that is because your authenticity, your sincerity,
Speaker 1: your culturalism. They even though they don't know what to
Speaker 1: call it, they see it as a mentorship, you know,
Speaker 1: even though they don't know what to say it, they
Speaker 1: see it as love, even though they don't know what
Speaker 1: to say. You you there people, and you never have
Speaker 1: to worry about anybody following any appeal. You ain't got
Speaker 1: worried about the way said you sold me down the river.
Speaker 1: It's because of that relationship, you know. I was just
Speaker 1: sitting here just thinking about all the traumas that we
Speaker 1: deal with, right, and just listening to it and knowing
Speaker 1: a little bit of everybody's story here, you know, um,
Speaker 1: just thinking I was thinking about this. It's kind of
Speaker 1: a deep question. And I don't know if you ever
Speaker 1: thought about it, but Shaka, have you ever liked, um
Speaker 1: the family members of the person whose life you've taken?
Speaker 1: Have you ever had any conversation with them, had some
Speaker 1: like express some level or sorry or or was that
Speaker 1: ever something that you wanted to do? Was it an
Speaker 1: opportunity did that ever happen some type of reconciliation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's a great question, my son. I think it's
Speaker 1: you know, it really speaks to what I was talking
Speaker 1: about earlier, how you carry this for the rest of
Speaker 1: your life. So, about five or six years and my
Speaker 1: prison sentence, I got this letter from a woman am Nancy.
Speaker 1: And initially, I mean, you know, for those of us
Speaker 1: who being in prison, you know how pen pals randomly, right,
Speaker 1: is you know, your your mom's friend from the church,
Speaker 1: or aunt's friend or neighbors. So I didn't know who
Speaker 1: this woman was, and I remember opening the letter and
Speaker 1: I started to read it, and what she said to
Speaker 1: me was I want to tell you a story about David,
Speaker 1: the man who's life irresponsible for taking. This is who
Speaker 1: he is as a father, This is who he is
Speaker 1: as a son, this is who he is as a friend.
Speaker 1: And so she tells me this story. She raised him
Speaker 1: as his guy moother and I remember wanting to bawl
Speaker 1: that letter up, like I was so shaken, like I
Speaker 1: didn't even know what to do at the time, I
Speaker 1: was probably about twenty two or twenty three, but I
Speaker 1: kept reading that letter, and in that letter she said,
Speaker 1: you know, despite these things, I forgive you because that's
Speaker 1: what God would want me to do. And her and
Speaker 1: I started corresponding, and I remember she would ask me,
Speaker 1: like what happened that night? And I would give her
Speaker 1: the very just practical things, you know, but she was like,
Speaker 1: what happened to you? Like what happened to you at
Speaker 1: nineteen years old? That made you take a man's life?
Speaker 1: I can tell from your letters that you're very intelligent,
Speaker 1: very insightful. And so we went on this journey where
Speaker 1: I was avoiding for a long time, even telling her
Speaker 1: all the elements of what happened was a drug transaction
Speaker 1: that went wrong that he shouldn't have been part of.
Speaker 1: Somebody else brought them. So I avoided all that for
Speaker 1: for a while, and eventually we got to that truth.
Speaker 1: Fast forward, I get out of prison myself originally self published,
Speaker 1: but a lot of people don't know I originally self
Speaker 1: published Righting My Wrongs. I hustled that book out of
Speaker 1: the trunk two thousand thirteen. That book that I hustled
Speaker 1: out the Trump eventually reached Oprah wants to reach Oprah.
Speaker 1: I was able to, you know, problay that into a
Speaker 1: mainstream deal. Right when I went mainstream, I go on
Speaker 1: the local news station just to you know, public the book,
Speaker 1: all the stuff we do. I get an email from
Speaker 1: the you know, the journalists and she said, David's wife
Speaker 1: reached out to you and she wants to connect. And
Speaker 1: so she sent her email and said, he's serious about
Speaker 1: his redemption, he will call me. I was in the
Speaker 1: middle of a program the rapper Big Sean. He's from
Speaker 1: Detroit and he does this mentoring program. I was a speaker.
Speaker 1: I had to stop step out call David's white caller
Speaker 1: and we you know, this call and she was like,
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of the men you'd be bought into
Speaker 1: and you know, I've really been wanting to speak to
Speaker 1: you for a while. Now. What a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't understand is when you're incarcerated for an a sort
Speaker 1: of crime, you can't reach out to the family. You
Speaker 1: can't reach out to anybody that you victimize unless they
Speaker 1: reach out to you first. And so I have been
Speaker 1: wanting to have that conversation with, you know, specifically his wife.
Speaker 1: And so we ended up having this conversation and we
Speaker 1: talked and you know, we explained some text um and
Speaker 1: then sadly and unfortunately, they decided to sue me once
Speaker 1: they saw all the Oprah thing right. And now, I
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you this. You know, at the at
Speaker 1: the most human level, I understood their anger here and
Speaker 1: I understood their frustration, but I also understood that they
Speaker 1: were wrong and their efforts to extract money for me
Speaker 1: sharing my life story. Um. But because of the empathy
Speaker 1: and the understand I have for their family, I didn't
Speaker 1: show up with any anger, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I showed up. I showed up with empathy and compassion,
Speaker 1: and all exchanges befin between our lawyers were compassionate and
Speaker 1: you know, empathetic, and so what I realized in that
Speaker 1: moment is that they were in the midst of a deep,
Speaker 1: deep hurt and deep sorrow um as many families are
Speaker 1: who has lost the loved one, and that pain manifested
Speaker 1: with outsiders telling them this is how they should get justice,
Speaker 1: even though I had already served my time and did
Speaker 1: all the things that I needed to do to to
Speaker 1: to deal with the legal part. And so what I
Speaker 1: what I would say my son is that you know,
Speaker 1: these things that we find, these moments that we found
Speaker 1: ourselves in. You know, that was a thirty second decision
Speaker 1: that ended the life and it completely changed my life
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. Uh. You know, my
Speaker 1: young son has had to deal with the fallout from
Speaker 1: you know, my experience. You know, going to school and
Speaker 1: you know a kid can say, hey, your dad's a murderer.
Speaker 1: You know. Um, you know, there's a business, there's people
Speaker 1: I've dealt with, there were job opportunities, and so everything
Speaker 1: that I've been able to do, I had to kind
Speaker 1: of created very grassroots, very you know, guerrilla style, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. Hustle, hustle until you break through,
Speaker 1: and once you break through, it's no going back, but
Speaker 1: it endures you know, and so for me, I think
Speaker 1: it's important, uh for us to atone when we can
Speaker 1: and where we can. It may not always be directly
Speaker 1: to the people that you've hearned, but there's other people
Speaker 1: in proximity. Like I've worked with mothers and murdered children
Speaker 1: back when I was in Detroit, and I was able
Speaker 1: to sit as a proxy for, you know, the men
Speaker 1: who had killed these mothers kids, And I was able
Speaker 1: to sitting and allow these sisters to say, I don't
Speaker 1: like you, I hate you, I'm hurt by you, I'm
Speaker 1: devastated by you. And I was also able to apologize
Speaker 1: on behalf of those men and facilitate healing. And like
Speaker 1: that's the work that is a lot of that's behind
Speaker 1: the scenes, but restore the practices are popping up all
Speaker 1: over and I think it's one of the lynch pins
Speaker 1: to actually hit in our community because as we know,
Speaker 1: violence is clickical. You kill my brother, I kill your brother,
Speaker 1: you know, and I just you know, spared the whole family.
Speaker 1: When my brother was murdered. I went home, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm in a d I'm fishing in the street.
Speaker 1: The brothers they loved me. My brother got killed the
Speaker 1: whole block was there, and they're like, we know where
Speaker 1: his mom at, we know where his brothers at. Right now,
Speaker 1: we're about to go around. And I was like, no,
Speaker 1: we're not. That's not what's happening here. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, because sometimes some of us, sometimes we have
Speaker 1: to step up and say, you know what, it got
Speaker 1: to end here. You know, my family is hurting. You know,
Speaker 1: this is our baby brother. He wasn't in the streets,
Speaker 1: he wasn't doing anything wrong. And all of us, most
Speaker 1: of my brothers, were all from the streets. So it's
Speaker 1: easy to justify that kind of reaction, but the responsible
Speaker 1: and healing thing to do is to disrupt that. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so we were. I was fortunate that you know,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm the o G, I'm o G enough
Speaker 1: for them to actually listen. Um. But that's all. That's
Speaker 1: part of the restore the practices. What's your brother's name,
Speaker 1: Sharad name Sharad Red. And I was fortunate before the
Speaker 1: book came the new book came out to be able
Speaker 1: to you know, dedicate this book to him and other
Speaker 1: young brothers and sisters and families who have lost the
Speaker 1: loved one and you know, it's uh, it's hard though,
Speaker 1: you know, because it's like it ain't even been a
Speaker 1: full year, you know, but you know, it's it's the
Speaker 1: nature of our community that we got to talk more about,
Speaker 1: you know, this reckless gun violence. And you know, his
Speaker 1: circumstances was different, like I was in the streets, street stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, there there's you know, under standing in that
Speaker 1: world of these are the potential outcomes. Um, So when
Speaker 1: it happens differently, it hurts differently. But you know, I
Speaker 1: just look at these moments man as opportunities to further
Speaker 1: hill our community and really advise um. You know, young
Speaker 1: people were like how to think about these things differently?
Speaker 1: That's right, So we got we gotta wrap this up.
Speaker 1: But I really want to ask Kevin question just based
Speaker 1: on this what you said, right and knowing some of
Speaker 1: the Kevin's story. keV. You know, I've read or I
Speaker 1: think I've seen an interview where you were talking about
Speaker 1: how your mother was killed and and I just just
Speaker 1: was listening to it and just just trying to process it.
Speaker 1: And I believe it was just based on someone trying
Speaker 1: to get do something to you or trying to extort
Speaker 1: you as something or some get back. Did you when
Speaker 1: when that happened, did you blame yourself? Do you still
Speaker 1: blame yourself for the situation? How did you come to
Speaker 1: terms with that whole situation? Well, clarity, it actually didn't
Speaker 1: have anything to do with me. It was actually brought
Speaker 1: to my daughter step a very good friend of mine
Speaker 1: at the time his girlfriend who at the time was
Speaker 1: maybe eighteen years old, and she had got kidnapped. And
Speaker 1: it just so happens that the kidnapping happened in the Bronx,
Speaker 1: probably minutes from where my mother lives. You know, my
Speaker 1: mother lived in the Forham Hill section uh University, you know,
Speaker 1: in that vicinity, And this happened like in a section
Speaker 1: like in like the Fordham Hill section of the Bronx,
Speaker 1: which this young lady was visiting a girlfriend of hers,
Speaker 1: and then when she left the apartment, they abducted her.
Speaker 1: And they had asked her for money, and me and her,
Speaker 1: me and her boyfriend, you know, we were like intertwined
Speaker 1: and and and and and our illegal dealings. So um,
Speaker 1: I guess when they had when they had her, they
Speaker 1: had asked her to to take them to my house
Speaker 1: to get some money of some kind of way. My
Speaker 1: my name came up in a conversation. In any event,
Speaker 1: she brought them to my mother's house and they manipulated
Speaker 1: themselves to get into the apartment, maybe saying something that
Speaker 1: happened with me. My mother knew who this young lady was,
Speaker 1: but she wasn't She wasn't, you know, directly associated with her,
Speaker 1: But she happened to know who this young lady was.
Speaker 1: So some kind of way they gained access to the
Speaker 1: apartment in search of money and drugs and those kind
Speaker 1: of things, which none of that was was there um.
Speaker 1: But to answer your question indirectly or directly, it still
Speaker 1: was because of the life choices that I had made.
Speaker 1: Of course, you know, had I I chose that as
Speaker 1: a as an occupation, then it would never ended up
Speaker 1: my mother's daughter. So to answer your question frankly, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not a day that went by, and that's been
Speaker 1: over thirty years that that that I've been able to
Speaker 1: forgive myself. And that's one of the reasons why I
Speaker 1: go so hard for my family, you know, to to
Speaker 1: to to to make it make sense, because you know,
Speaker 1: especially around holidays and and and certain things. Even with
Speaker 1: the the birth of my grandkids, and my grandfather now
Speaker 1: to know that she wasn't here to see that, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And I did all of these
Speaker 1: things for that reason. I mean, I actually got into
Speaker 1: the drug game because of the poverty that we was in,
Speaker 1: and I was trying to pick up some of the
Speaker 1: slack around the household, you know, to make to take
Speaker 1: the burden off of her and make the load a
Speaker 1: lot lighter, you know. So ironically that's been in results.
Speaker 1: I felt like my efforts was in vain because that
Speaker 1: was really what motivated me in the first place. So, um,
Speaker 1: I feel responsible for you know what I'm saying. And
Speaker 1: that's not something you wake up and you can never shake,
Speaker 1: you know, you can you can never you can never
Speaker 1: rid yourself of that guilt. And I walk around with
Speaker 1: it all the time, you know what I'm saying. But again,
Speaker 1: I'm to do so much to the right to offset
Speaker 1: what went to the left, you know, in every waking moment,
Speaker 1: trying to um, just you know, make it all makes
Speaker 1: sense when it's said and done, you know what I'm saying. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel that regular responsible for and it's not nothing
Speaker 1: I've ever been able to, like side step. What's the
Speaker 1: therapeutic process. First of all, thank you, thank you to
Speaker 1: the three of you for being so vulnerable. UM. This
Speaker 1: is probably one of the most moving shows that we've done.
Speaker 1: The first one, UM, for me was watching the experience
Speaker 1: between my son and Hill Harper, where they both became
Speaker 1: teary eyed on the show talking about some of the
Speaker 1: same issues, the trauma that black men specifically faced. UM.
Speaker 1: And that show for me was probably the first, you know,
Speaker 1: the one that moved me the most, but this would
Speaker 1: certainly be the second. Just listening to you all talk
Speaker 1: about your lives and talk about your story. My son's
Speaker 1: father was murdered. UM. Now it's been twenty years twenty
Speaker 1: years ago. He was shot twice and left in a
Speaker 1: ditch for two weeks before his body was discovered, completely
Speaker 1: decomposed obviously by the time he was found, UM, and
Speaker 1: you know, we were never able to give him a
Speaker 1: proper burial. And I had for a long time believe
Speaker 1: that just because my son had me, you know, my mom,
Speaker 1: my dad, my sister and so many people are round,
Speaker 1: that he didn't have all of this trauma when he
Speaker 1: you know, I would think I was always thinking, well,
Speaker 1: you've been well taken care of you didn't want for anything.
Speaker 1: But it took my son and other men around me
Speaker 1: to say that that experience, even though he was only two,
Speaker 1: he's still dealing with the trauma of his father being
Speaker 1: murdered and the way that he was murdered. And um,
Speaker 1: you know, I realized that black men have a real story.
Speaker 1: And so again, thank you so much for for telling it.
Speaker 1: And then and the last thing I think as we
Speaker 1: close out is what is the therapeutic process? Because Kevin,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure whether you're in therapy, but I know
Speaker 1: that what you just said requires it, right, um Shaka,
Speaker 1: I think I'm pretty sure you have had some therapeutic experience,
Speaker 1: and even Royce, while you know, while yes, you are
Speaker 1: helping other people, but it there's definitely a need to
Speaker 1: work through what you see black men who look like
Speaker 1: you going through every day because sometimes I think there
Speaker 1: can be a little bit of survivor's remorse for those
Speaker 1: of us who have made it. So to speak. Um, so,
Speaker 1: are you all, as anybody you know here, receiving therapy
Speaker 1: or is this something you're looking to do? Can we
Speaker 1: you know, whoever wants to take that question can just
Speaker 1: jump in. Well, I want to answer that. I'll answer
Speaker 1: that first. Um, I love therapists. I mean, like I
Speaker 1: can't even imagine life without it. And for a couple
Speaker 1: of reasons that you mentioned. One, I know I'm jaded,
Speaker 1: Like like, I know I'm jaded. I was. I was
Speaker 1: fortunate enough to go to a prep school where you know,
Speaker 1: I'm less than one percent, didn't me. I knew why
Speaker 1: I was there. I was there to play basketball, didn't
Speaker 1: understand racism, didn't I understood classes because I was still
Speaker 1: on food stamps and stuff. For that nature family was
Speaker 1: able to work through it, struggling with what you want
Speaker 1: me to be a success, but it shore don't seem
Speaker 1: like it, you know what I mean, and going to
Speaker 1: school and being stressed out with like don't worry about tuition,
Speaker 1: don't worry about this, your study. So and I love
Speaker 1: my family for that, I mean like that was nothing
Speaker 1: wrong with that. That was the situation we were in.
Speaker 1: But who does that make you? Right? Who does that
Speaker 1: make you when you look in the mirror and you're like, yo, look,
Speaker 1: I can't count on nobody but me, and people are
Speaker 1: reaching out, but you're like, nah, I ain't gonna take
Speaker 1: that because I know it's gonna be disappointment at it.
Speaker 1: You don't know it's gonna be there. You don't see
Speaker 1: it as disappointment, but you're like, you know what, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do my own thing. I got it. It's something
Speaker 1: not right about that when you're only cheer leader is you,
Speaker 1: and you can't let anybody be a cheerleader for you,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, You can't let any or
Speaker 1: your whole life you're looking for a partner to be
Speaker 1: a cheer leader for you or because people will you know,
Speaker 1: people may not see what you see. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: I got I gotta get on that phone called Dr
Speaker 1: Gray up. Let's have this conversation. It goes professional, it
Speaker 1: goes personal, it goes perspective. Right, how much success is success?
Speaker 1: Can you like bow down? Now? You know? Is it
Speaker 1: the right thing to try to becoming? Just how limited
Speaker 1: is that? Is a lot of things that go on
Speaker 1: with carrying a torch of trying to make sure that
Speaker 1: culturally and legally we all right because it's not. Once again,
Speaker 1: it's not a lot of us doing it. You know,
Speaker 1: New York City is a big place, but you could
Speaker 1: probably ten ten lawyers. You could probably think of that
Speaker 1: practice in this area, whether it's civil rights, a criminal
Speaker 1: defenses of color that give a damn anyone else. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I could identify what everything that Royce just said. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I'm very thankful for you being an attorney, my
Speaker 1: attorney who actually saved my life as a black attorney
Speaker 1: as well. His name is Mr Anthony Rico. Oh, yes,
Speaker 1: I love him, love him. It wasn't just an attorney.
Speaker 1: I learned a lot of life lessons with him, you know.
Speaker 1: And I had a lot of Italian high profile lawyers,
Speaker 1: Jewish lawyers that came to me that um I thought
Speaker 1: aesthetically probably fit the bill better than he did. But
Speaker 1: it was something that he said when we spoke that
Speaker 1: I knew he was. It was relatable and I identified
Speaker 1: with him, you know. So, um and I chose him
Speaker 1: for a lawyer, and my life has ever been different
Speaker 1: because he shared some life lessons with me that to
Speaker 1: this day I lived by. So I identified relate to
Speaker 1: everything that you're saying. And like you said, it's just
Speaker 1: not enough for you guys in this field, because it
Speaker 1: would change the lives of a lot of us. But
Speaker 1: to get back to the point of um therapy and
Speaker 1: and and and that, um My whole family looks towards
Speaker 1: me to make the right choices and decisions, you know,
Speaker 1: and to propel my family from poverty into the middle
Speaker 1: class and toto ultimately um generational wealth. Like you know,
Speaker 1: and like I said, I've been on a mission since
Speaker 1: I've came home, and I single handedly have moved them
Speaker 1: and put them in a position that you know, I
Speaker 1: know that if I wasn't um doing what I was doing,
Speaker 1: I don't know what that would look like. Um So,
Speaker 1: with my accomplishments and my success as I think what
Speaker 1: soothes my soul and and and keeps me a little
Speaker 1: bit at peace. But I'm sure that I could probably sit,
Speaker 1: you know, and unpack some of this trauma that that
Speaker 1: I've dealt with my whole life, because I know I'm
Speaker 1: very desensitized to a lot of things that I've just
Speaker 1: made comment like, you know, it's a commonality. I've just
Speaker 1: I've normalized it, you know, to get by, you know,
Speaker 1: because even when I wrote the book was very therapeutic.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of things that I reflected
Speaker 1: on and I was like, I don't even really believe
Speaker 1: that I endored that I went through that or I
Speaker 1: even was a part of that because it was such
Speaker 1: a heinous, vicious time, you know, So to even be
Speaker 1: president today I consider a blessing. You know. Um, seeing
Speaker 1: being a grandfather was nothing I have envisioned, you know, Um,
Speaker 1: coming back putting my daughter to college and seeing her graduate,
Speaker 1: and then not having a child. You know, I didn't
Speaker 1: even think I would ever be even a part of
Speaker 1: their lives. I didn't think I was gonna live long
Speaker 1: enough to to see this day. But the fact that
Speaker 1: I have done, it's a testimony to to to me
Speaker 1: just enduring and getting by and then, like I said,
Speaker 1: I live in the memory of my mother. So everything
Speaker 1: I do is I'm doing, you know, for her more specifically,
Speaker 1: and I honestly think that she would be proud of me.
Speaker 1: But the man that I turned into present day and
Speaker 1: all the things that I've done so Um, do I
Speaker 1: think I could use therapy. I think all black men
Speaker 1: could use some therapy. I think because coming from our environments,
Speaker 1: that's a fact. But I still feel blessed to be here.
Speaker 1: The thing, like I said, I'm honored to have been
Speaker 1: a part of this panel. That they's very insightful for me.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm glad that I was a part of it.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having Yeah, And I'll just ad I
Speaker 1: don't know. We're wrapping up before you answer the question,
Speaker 1: and I know they're gonna kill me. The whole production
Speaker 1: team is looking at me like I'm crazy. But the
Speaker 1: the we talked about this earlier in the show. Um,
Speaker 1: my brother told me, uh this this past weekend that
Speaker 1: he did sixty months in solitary confinement. I don't know
Speaker 1: why I didn't know. I mean, I was I thought
Speaker 1: I did his bid with him, but clearly maybe as
Speaker 1: I became a teenager, I missed some time. I had
Speaker 1: no idea that he sat in solitary confinement for five years,
Speaker 1: but he told me he grew up in solitary. And
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to I just want to know, Like
Speaker 1: when we talked about therapy, like, what has it been
Speaker 1: like for you to deal with, you know, returning to
Speaker 1: life after having sat in solitary? What would you say
Speaker 1: for seven years? Because my son always tells me after
Speaker 1: how many days something. I think after nineties to sixty days,
Speaker 1: it changes you. It does something mentally to you. You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: more time than that, you know, it's it's it's one
Speaker 1: of the most horrendous things that we can do to
Speaker 1: another human being. And I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: experience just a minor glimpse of what that's like with
Speaker 1: the pandemic um. You know, that feeling of being alone,
Speaker 1: that feeling of not knowing when things are going to change,
Speaker 1: the hardest thing for me about being a solitary it's
Speaker 1: my senses was and definite, which means it's not like, hey,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be there for thirty days or sixty days
Speaker 1: or ninety days or a year. You're just gonna be there,
Speaker 1: and today decided to let you out, And so you
Speaker 1: can never really put your feet on solid ground. And
Speaker 1: it's the it's the most barbaric stripping of a human being.
Speaker 1: People often ask why do I write from such a
Speaker 1: space of vulnerability. It's because I've already been stripped of
Speaker 1: everything um And so for me, regaining ownership over my life,
Speaker 1: you know, requires me to confront the things that have
Speaker 1: made me uncomfortable in life. And you know, when I
Speaker 1: think about my therapeutic processes since I've been out, and
Speaker 1: I promised, I can't wait for y'all to read this book.
Speaker 1: And it's not even just on the sales pitch, but
Speaker 1: I get into like the molecular level of what it
Speaker 1: was like coming out because those that know, when you know,
Speaker 1: the public, the public facing side, right, the accomplishments, the accolades.
Speaker 1: But I talked about in a new book, the Dark
Speaker 1: Side of It, what happens when the lights go off,
Speaker 1: you know, when the cameras are not there. I'm alone
Speaker 1: in the hotel room, um, processing all the trauma that
Speaker 1: I've just vomited up. And you know, so I started
Speaker 1: seeking out counseling, and I started seeking out therapy, and sally, Um,
Speaker 1: it's really hard to find a black therapist. It's hard
Speaker 1: to find a black male therapist that doesn't have a
Speaker 1: back case load of people that can't afford to give
Speaker 1: you the attention. And the last therapist I have cool do.
Speaker 1: But the same thing continues to happen over They get
Speaker 1: so enrapture in the reality that I survived what I survived,
Speaker 1: that I almost become their therapist. And they can't even
Speaker 1: believe that I thrive at this level and that I've
Speaker 1: been able to do the things that I do and
Speaker 1: still show up as a full human being. Where they're like, damn, well,
Speaker 1: what do I need to do, you know what I'm saying, um,
Speaker 1: And so it's made it very difficult, you know, but
Speaker 1: I'm really I can tell you, I'm really fortunate. I
Speaker 1: read a lot of books, I write, you know, writ
Speaker 1: and writing this my therapy, you know. And I just
Speaker 1: have incredibly beautiful people in my life, people who I
Speaker 1: can talk to about all the things, you know, and
Speaker 1: and you know, having having you know, being a dad
Speaker 1: where a lot of my fatherhood has been as a
Speaker 1: single dad. You know, it's really watching my son's processes,
Speaker 1: watching who he is and how he's become without all
Speaker 1: the trauma, has helped me even understand the depths of
Speaker 1: the trauma, because a lot of the trauma we talked
Speaker 1: about right now is like prison and and and gun violence.
Speaker 1: But it's deep. It goes back to our childhood, you know.
Speaker 1: It goes back to what happens in our household, and
Speaker 1: whether it's out of survival, whether it's out of a
Speaker 1: repeated cycle. A lot of that trauma that comes from
Speaker 1: there it bleeds over into how we show up in
Speaker 1: the rest of the world. So I'm just a big
Speaker 1: advocate of people really taking care of their mental health,
Speaker 1: emotional health, cutting off the things and the people that
Speaker 1: don't serve where you're trying to get in life. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't have no problem setting down shop at this point.
Speaker 1: You know, I've matured and grown to a space, a
Speaker 1: really uderstanding that we as black men specifically, we deserve joy.
Speaker 1: You know, we deserve to be able to receive love,
Speaker 1: not just show love. We deserve to be a provided
Speaker 1: for and not just be providers. And that is holistic
Speaker 1: living and experience that we've been robbed of and deprived of,
Speaker 1: and oftentimes we've deprived ourselves of it. And so you know,
Speaker 1: for me, therapy is that, as you know, it's really important.
Speaker 1: And last ye I'll say this. I ran into a
Speaker 1: Yalla what did minor work with before? And we were
Speaker 1: we were we were just talking briefly, I mean like
Speaker 1: a five minute talk, and what she said to me
Speaker 1: has left for imprint on me that I know what
Speaker 1: I need to do is she said, Shockra, no matter
Speaker 1: how you show up in the world, no matter how brilliant,
Speaker 1: how talented, how successful you are, what happened to you
Speaker 1: is embedded in you physically, and you have to move
Speaker 1: that energy out of your body. And I was like, damn,
Speaker 1: she was like, as a human being, you can not
Speaker 1: be confined to solitary for seven years without that impact
Speaker 1: in your sales, like the cellular nature of your being,
Speaker 1: you know. And so it's just like it started showing
Speaker 1: me like all these little things, these nuanced things, you know,
Speaker 1: the emotional disconnect that comes so easily, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: emotional distance from anything that's inconvenient, not even just hard
Speaker 1: that's inconvenient. I don't have time for that, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Who got time for those feelings? Right?
Speaker 1: Not not even liking being touched, Like it took years
Speaker 1: for me to be comfortable with like just a hub,
Speaker 1: you know how I have conversations to be able to
Speaker 1: enjoy and express myself without skepticism, you know. And so
Speaker 1: you know, there's long term implications of incarceration, and it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter the length of time I promised you, um,
Speaker 1: you know. And and this is something that I think
Speaker 1: we can all appreciate. I'm a big fan of hip hop,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I think I'm one of the biggest
Speaker 1: fans of hip hop. Pay attention to every artist was
Speaker 1: ever been arrested for any amount of time, The indignity
Speaker 1: of being strict searched of the indignity of being, you know,
Speaker 1: having officers look in your most intimate of spaces, the
Speaker 1: indignity of being shoring up all agency over anything that
Speaker 1: you would normally do as an adult like that psychologically
Speaker 1: damage you. And none of them have ever been the same.
Speaker 1: After that, you see a heightened aggressiveness. You see a
Speaker 1: heightened defensiveness because these are real consequences of what prison
Speaker 1: does far beyond you know, so car protecting the community,
Speaker 1: so a big advocate for mental health. Happy y'all are
Speaker 1: talking about it, and you know, such a pleasure to
Speaker 1: meet you brothers Kevin. You know don Diva saved my
Speaker 1: life many times in prison, you know, renos articles and
Speaker 1: just keeping us connected to what was going on in community. Um,
Speaker 1: and it's so dope to just see, you know, a
Speaker 1: brother who was actually not just a legal counsel but
Speaker 1: also blessing us with the Jews, so that you know,
Speaker 1: any event we need to understand what's happening legally, we
Speaker 1: had it at our disposal. So I can't wait to
Speaker 1: grab your brother's books. Definitely, I'll make sure make sure
Speaker 1: that you're connecting. You'll change exchange information that y'all stay
Speaker 1: connected because these are type of brothers that y'all need
Speaker 1: to read. And I can just see y'all creating and
Speaker 1: building together something that would be, you know, phenomenal. So
Speaker 1: that's that was my process when I put this whole
Speaker 1: thing together. So we gotta go. Job. You know, I
Speaker 1: have to give you a little bit of props. I
Speaker 1: usually beat you up, but you know a little something
Speaker 1: made me look good. I appreciate. So listen. So listen, man,
Speaker 1: we gotta go because we can just have this whole conversation.
Speaker 1: You probably can do this for four or five hours.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just I'm an old old of you
Speaker 1: guys man, So make sure you get your book, Royce,
Speaker 1: what's the name of your book? Cardiac Arrest Tactical Guide
Speaker 1: on how to handle unlawful police stops. You're also having
Speaker 1: a work footfall, and I'm gonna do Shocker, dude. I'll
Speaker 1: show you the work books and then you go all right,
Speaker 1: all right, shock? What's the name of your book? Said?
Speaker 1: One more time? New one the New Books Letter to
Speaker 1: the Size of the Society of Father's invitation to love,
Speaker 1: honesty and freedom. I understand freedom. Make sure you go
Speaker 1: get that book and Kevin let him know the name
Speaker 1: of your book. Crack Ever the Rods Fall and redemption
Speaker 1: of Kevin Charles and went in the country we built.
Speaker 1: That's right, and all this black excellence in these black books, Man,
Speaker 1: make sure you go out and get everybody. And my
Speaker 1: book is I Know My Rights. It's the first ten
Speaker 1: amendments of the Constitution, just broken down for our youth
Speaker 1: to understand their rights when they're actually engaged by law
Speaker 1: enforcement and have to deal with the law in any
Speaker 1: you know, um capacity. So thank you guys. I appreciate you, man.
Speaker 1: I look forward to continue to build with you, brothers.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that I got all y'all speed down, man,
Speaker 1: so I shate your nothing, beloved man, continue to be great.
Speaker 1: Make sure you go get all of these books. These
Speaker 1: books are things that are going to elevate you and
Speaker 1: give you understanding of what we go through in this
Speaker 1: culture and how us as black men have to adapt
Speaker 1: and continue to evolve and go through so many things,
Speaker 1: but still we rise. Man. I appreciate you brothers. I
Speaker 1: love you all. Thank you you did good because that
Speaker 1: was that was powerful. Chill man. Shout out to those brothers.
Speaker 1: Royce Russell, Shokus and Gore and Kevin, three people that
Speaker 1: I respect, you know, I call them for different jewels
Speaker 1: and they there. I mean, it was powerful. There was
Speaker 1: so much, you know, also being around you. And let
Speaker 1: me just give a shout out to my brother del Song,
Speaker 1: who is the person that actually connected me with Kevin.
Speaker 1: He's another dude that is another real insightful brother that
Speaker 1: I to give me a lot of insight and jews
Speaker 1: from shut up to I gotta get in my d
Speaker 1: m s and debate with Delson because he loves to
Speaker 1: debate me on on things or give me a little
Speaker 1: bit of information about stuff I may not be paying
Speaker 1: attention to. But I'm gonna tell you when I listened
Speaker 1: to them and what they were saying, I think about
Speaker 1: just over time and specifically since I'm with you and
Speaker 1: Angelo Attorney, Angelo pintol Our other co found that until
Speaker 1: freedom and since I'm with y'all so much, and I
Speaker 1: listened to the things y'all say. You may not think so,
Speaker 1: because Lynda and I argued back and forth from Joab
Speaker 1: all the time, but I do listen. And even in
Speaker 1: my book where you wrote your part, your your piece,
Speaker 1: where you talk about your experience. You say starting out
Speaker 1: that you have always felt like there was no one
Speaker 1: that you could depend on, and then hearing Royce also
Speaker 1: say that, like you know, he had to be his
Speaker 1: own cheerleader. It's just it resonates so much the stories
Speaker 1: that no matter what the bad ground maybe or where
Speaker 1: you all have come gone and how you've evolved, there
Speaker 1: are still these fundamental challenges about black men not feeling supported, love, respected,
Speaker 1: um and and that's painful to hear, especially being the
Speaker 1: mother of a black son, because I don't want him
Speaker 1: to feel that way. But there's something about society that
Speaker 1: just does that to our men. It is man and
Speaker 1: it's a common threat. When you listen to roy say
Speaker 1: that I was, I shook my head, like wow, you
Speaker 1: feel like you're your own cheerleader. You don't want to
Speaker 1: be disappointed, so you just figure it out. Cared was
Speaker 1: talking about how he just became he normalt Like I said,
Speaker 1: a lot of times, we've normalized ab normality. He normalized disappointment.
Speaker 1: He's emostly detached. When you listen to Shocker, he could
Speaker 1: just walk away. He don't even want to deal with
Speaker 1: anything that inconveniences him. Right when you when you go
Speaker 1: through so many things in life and you deal with
Speaker 1: certain levels of trauma, imprisonment, you know, violence and all
Speaker 1: those things, you become numb to certain things. You become
Speaker 1: so detached, like I feel like I need levels of
Speaker 1: seclusion in my life. I just need to be by myself.
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I can't share space. It's so
Speaker 1: many different things that we deal with as black men
Speaker 1: going through we we've been through, man, and just hearing
Speaker 1: them just say it right, and and and just being
Speaker 1: able to say word. You know, I know what that is, man.
Speaker 1: So it's therapeutic just listening to other people who have
Speaker 1: shared experiences, who have shared emotions and things that you
Speaker 1: dealt with that you never even been able to express
Speaker 1: or tell to anybody else, and is to hear them freely,
Speaker 1: Like you said, be transparent and vulnerable on this space
Speaker 1: was just something that was very enlighten. It is, isn't
Speaker 1: it crazy? Maybe maybe this is the wrong perspective, but
Speaker 1: how the things that cause us trauma also can teach
Speaker 1: us such powerful lessons, Like the things that we see
Speaker 1: that might not be good for us on one hand,
Speaker 1: actually teach us humility and other things. So I talked
Speaker 1: about my my cousin Jimmy. You know, we call all
Speaker 1: older people uncle, so his uncle Jimmy to me, but
Speaker 1: he was actually my cousin and he used to come
Speaker 1: to our house every Sunday when we lived in the projects.
Speaker 1: He was on drugs, homeless, and he had aids. He
Speaker 1: was bleeding at times, he had all kinds of issues.
Speaker 1: I probably, as a young kid, shouldn't have been seeing
Speaker 1: that right at the dinner table in our house. They
Speaker 1: cleaned the area, but they fed him. That trauma also
Speaker 1: taught me humility. It was important for me to see
Speaker 1: my family not think that they were so uppity that
Speaker 1: they would not still take care of and love up
Speaker 1: on a family member who was, you know, going through
Speaker 1: He was at the end of his life, and it's
Speaker 1: like we black folks just have to We always have
Speaker 1: to juggle with so many different realities and then be
Speaker 1: able to get the best from the worst. So watching
Speaker 1: him in his situation wasn't because I I remember it
Speaker 1: and it traumatizes me at times. His smell, his all
Speaker 1: of these things that he was going through, but he
Speaker 1: also was so he loved us so much and he
Speaker 1: was able to come that to a home despite whatever
Speaker 1: his situation is. I know that did something good for me,
Speaker 1: even though the images are are things I'll never get
Speaker 1: out of my mind. That's real when you know, we
Speaker 1: we learned, like you said, we learned from our trauma
Speaker 1: and it teaches us certain things. Man, so dope episode,
Speaker 1: you know, shout out to those brothers, and that brings
Speaker 1: me to my I don't get it. What don't you
Speaker 1: get this? So we talked about all of these real things,
Speaker 1: like this is a really real deep episode and reality,
Speaker 1: you know, this is like real realities, the things tangible,
Speaker 1: things you see, you touch, you smell, you actually engage in.
Speaker 1: And as we moved towards you know, the future, the future,
Speaker 1: the future, and we talk about n f T S
Speaker 1: and crypto right and and those being the next biggest things.
Speaker 1: And I get why, you know, I get what's going
Speaker 1: on because you know, I got kids that play PS
Speaker 1: four and all these things, PS five and ps FO.
Speaker 1: They really listen to me. They play PS five, But
Speaker 1: these kids love that PS four. They don't even my
Speaker 1: kids don't even I brought the PS five from them
Speaker 1: last Christmas that they ain't open and they're playing, still
Speaker 1: playing the PS four. I don't know what it is,
Speaker 1: but that's just the thing. But when you look and
Speaker 1: see how day on this game and every day Keston,
Speaker 1: my youngest son, comes to me like that I need
Speaker 1: twenty dollars I set for what for v Bucks? I'm like,
Speaker 1: what is v Bucks? I want to buy the new skin.
Speaker 1: I want to buy this. And he's paying for virtual outfits,
Speaker 1: literally paying for clothes, and even he's paying for clothes.
Speaker 1: So I realized that this is the future because all
Speaker 1: the kids are doing it. They want v Bucks, they
Speaker 1: want v Bucks. So n f t S actually makes
Speaker 1: in that regard. But the reality is people are going
Speaker 1: to be investing in owning virtual stuff like it's a
Speaker 1: real life. Like people are going to be buying things
Speaker 1: on the internet like it's a real place that they're
Speaker 1: actually visiting, like clothing and shoes and shopping for food.
Speaker 1: Like they had a whole program where you go in
Speaker 1: Walmart and you're shopping like you and you're spending real money,
Speaker 1: like you have some kind of tangible something from that.
Speaker 1: But in their mind, it is because they've created a
Speaker 1: whole universe that you live inside this universe and you
Speaker 1: you tune in and it's like a real life, and
Speaker 1: that's what the future is going to look like. And
Speaker 1: I just don't get how we've normalized some shing like that,
Speaker 1: like how have we it just has It's not I
Speaker 1: don't think that's progression. I know what I'm saying, Well, progress,
Speaker 1: I don't mean progress and a positive or negative. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying it's, um, it's developed into uh more expensive,
Speaker 1: more whatever. Right, I don't even know the proper words
Speaker 1: I'm looking for. But when i'm because I bought stuff too,
Speaker 1: I want first of all, if you think about a
Speaker 1: doll baby, we had to buy all the extra little
Speaker 1: clothes the top, but your own doll baby the world.
Speaker 1: So you're in the computer, so somebody has so listen
Speaker 1: to me. They're gonna have Louisa tone stories, They're gonna
Speaker 1: have all of this in the metaverse. Will you actually
Speaker 1: spend money for those clothes as pretty much the same
Speaker 1: prices that you spit out here, and you're gonna own
Speaker 1: them inside the metaverse? It's it's it's it's what's happening.
Speaker 1: Almost two thousand dollar? You know? The cell phone is
Speaker 1: almost two thousand dollars? Get it? But I own my
Speaker 1: phone though, see I can touch this it stores of things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like a metavert. It's not even it's virtual reality. Like
Speaker 1: we're really gonna be paying to own things in virtual
Speaker 1: reality with a lot of real money and people invest.
Speaker 1: And that's what the future is going to party, what
Speaker 1: it's going to do with your friends, your friends being
Speaker 1: the party virtual and the thing is, what that's gonna
Speaker 1: do is just eliminate people from really this is what
Speaker 1: the pandemic. It's a problem, like people are going to
Speaker 1: live so much in virtual reality that they're not even
Speaker 1: gonna be living in real reality. That's gonna be their
Speaker 1: real reality. Let me tell you right now. Right now,
Speaker 1: people think Instagram and whatever else, these different online things,
Speaker 1: that's the Instagram. But at least Instagram is pictures of
Speaker 1: your real life. Right, It's going to be living in
Speaker 1: your that's not in the metaverse. Is not your real life. No,
Speaker 1: it is, because it's gonna be your picture. Right, It's
Speaker 1: gonna be you like you, like you inside that you're
Speaker 1: moving around inside this place. The thing. Your friends will
Speaker 1: be on the headphones and you'll see and hear them
Speaker 1: speaking to you, and y'alla be together. So instead of
Speaker 1: writing on Instagram a message back and forth you will
Speaker 1: be acting out whatever it is that you're saying to
Speaker 1: your friend or having the conversation with them in person. Anyway,
Speaker 1: no way. Our show has been long, but it was
Speaker 1: a dope show. Shout out to the brothers who came
Speaker 1: up here, and make sure you get all of these
Speaker 1: books Cardiac Arrest, The Crack Error by Kevin Child's, Cardiac
Speaker 1: Arrest by Royce Russell, and Society. Go out and get
Speaker 1: those books into me because it's still one of the
Speaker 1: best sellers out here. Make sure you go get that.
Speaker 1: And with that said, into the show. We appreciate you.
Speaker 1: Make sure that you continue to make us number one
Speaker 1: she Politicians, number one podcast in the world. I'm not
Speaker 1: number one in our hearts. We need people number one existence.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that that we don't. But if the
Speaker 1: thing is, if people believe that it's already there, not
Speaker 1: pushing I'm telling you no, no, you listen. People want
Speaker 1: to watch me, get me the best number. And y'all,
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna always do right to me. It's not
Speaker 1: gonna always be wrong. We will both always mean, always,
Speaker 1: always always always be authentic.