WEBVTT - Reclaiming Our Future 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:08.160 What's good. Family. I'm your girl, Tamika D. Mallory's your 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:12.440 and we are your hosts of Street Politicians, the place 0:00:12.480 --> 0:00:16.479 where the streets and politics meet. We are in person 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:25.599 today office. Ye were back in style, back inside inside. 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:32.320 We do actually put pants on now right in my boxes, 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.880 you know what I'm saying, put my my shirt over 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:39.080 my night Gale. Sometimes and I go to work and 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.279 that's that. But now now it's it's good to be 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.920 in Studio two and to see the entire Street Politicians team, 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:50.599 folks that have been working to make this show the greatest, 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.240 and it's a good feeling to be at work. Our 0:00:53.280 --> 0:00:57.240 panel today is probably going to be a deep, long discussion. 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.760 I'm excited about it. I want to see what you did. 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:03.760 You know what You put this together all by your loan, 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:08.200 so and I wanna I'm excited to get to that. So. 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:10.920 I don't want us to sit and be labored. It's 0:01:11.120 --> 0:01:17.119 so much happening in this country, so much happening. There 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:21.000 is the debate that's happening over the Philip Bus to 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:23.920 being changed so that they could get voting rights past 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:29.800 and Washington that's actually started yesterday. There's developments there Um, 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:35.120 there's things happening with uh COVID nineteen and and the vaccinations. 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:40.120 Looks like nike UM has laid off or fired several 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:44.240 of their employees who were not vaccinated. So over this 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:48.280 past weekend, several people who were not vaccinated have been 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:52.200 terminated because the policy went into effect in October that 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.320 they would have to be vaccinated in the deadline was January. 0:01:56.200 --> 0:02:00.160 So you have that happening. You've got kids walking the 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:04.600 schools because they feel unsafe. You've got mayors like our 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:08.400 mayor in New York, um Eric Adams, saying that this 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:11.280 this city, the world has to open up. And I 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.160 actually agree, Um, you know, and I don't agree with 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.160 Eric on all the things, but I do agree with 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:21.119 him that the city has to open. The country has 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.160 to open. Too many people don't have jobs. And by 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:26.800 the way, the federal government is not sending all of 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:29.760 this money for that it was sending in the past. 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:32.440 So we got to get people back to work. Yeah, 0:02:32.680 --> 0:02:35.440 people got to get back to work. Somehow. We're not 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.800 getting rid of COVID, the CDC and others within the 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:44.520 federal system. Whatever health experts say. We've got to live 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.000 with COVID. The same way we do the flu, the 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.560 same way we do all these other things that we 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.280 deal with, and we gotta we have to figure out 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:55.160 how to work it out. And that doesn't mean that 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:59.440 I don't understand students who in their schools aren't getting 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:04.320 the proper testing equipment, the proper mask, the proper sanitizing, 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.919 you know, things that they need in support so that 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.040 they can be well. And they're saying hell no, because 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.320 when you say the city has to open up, there's 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.679 there also should be mechanisms for dealing with people who 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.880 have health concerns and challenges. So there's a lot of 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:24.320 stuff going on. Even with that. I mean, they're shootings happening. Still. 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:26.360 I think I saw something which I don't watch. I 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:31.440 don't even your page. I can't it's too traumatic. Um, 0:03:31.480 --> 0:03:33.440 sometimes you have funny stuff on their Well, you have 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.160 something on there that I appreciate the other day, which 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:40.119 I'll go to that next. But um, but you had 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.120 something on there about a woman being stabbed or yeah, 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.400 in the bronx the of the day. Um, five in 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:49.600 the morning, two men beat and stabbed the women, just her. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:52.320 It didn't seem like they asked us some questions and 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.520 just start stabbing on the back and a torso and beating, 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:58.080 a kicking. It was just I just don't like, I said, 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.360 co coaches at an old time, huh. And it seems 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.000 I don't know what it is. I've been seeing a 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.040 lot of this in the Bronx where um men are 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:11.320 just really assaulting, stabbing, cutting, beating, trying to rob women. 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:13.280 And I think, you know, as men, we have to 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.560 do a lot. We have to do a lot of 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:19.000 work to take back our communities. Man. People can't feel 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.839 comfortable like we have to make those types of people 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:25.320 feel like, yo, we can't even be seen out here. 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:27.640 You know. We have we got to protect our communities, man. 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:29.359 I think it's time that we definitely got to step 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.840 up and just be those star warks in our community 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.200 that protect our women and children. But it's not just 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.440 um in the Bronx, although the Bronx has really been 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.200 wildent like and it's crazy because I tell people I 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.120 live in the Bronx and they look at me like, oh, 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:49.280 you know, and I mean poverty to you know, poverty. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:52.440 We have the highest poverty rate in the in the 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:55.280 state of New York. I don't know, because upstate it's 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.800 pretty bad. I'm just saying, what that's what they said. 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.920 I just read what they said that it's the poorer. Yeah, 0:05:02.000 --> 0:05:05.360 I mean maybe, but I'm just saying maybe they're talking 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.520 about in the city, because in the state of New York, upstate, 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:14.640 there's some places that are it's really really bad. So 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:18.080 I guess maybe in the city. But nonetheless, it's not 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.919 just there, because we just went to a vigil last 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:25.000 week for a young girl who was working at Burger 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:27.720 King and the man went in there and asked her 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:29.839 to give the money. She gave everything that was in 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.440 the register, and he still shot her to death. So 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:36.479 it's like it just it never it's never ending. It's 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:40.440 all across not just the city, it's all across the nation. 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:44.159 We have to travel this weekend to Las Vegas, where 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:48.240 there's violence happening. We're hearing that. I was I was saying, well, 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.479 you know, the the organizers were working with. I said, well, 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:55.600 can we um, you know, go to the hood and 0:05:55.680 --> 0:05:58.560 have our event there, you know, And I was trying 0:05:58.560 --> 0:05:59.920 to work it up and she was like, oh no, 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.200 the shootings are not just happening in the hood. It's 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:06.680 on the strip, it's in just the regular mall anywhere, 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:09.920 it's anywhere, and it doesn't make sense. It's not all 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:14.440 gang related, it's just violence. It's just it's breaking out everywhere. 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.680 And so you know, um, it's a lot happening, and 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:20.680 I think you know, And we spend a lot of 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:26.160 time focused on Soldier Boys. Pictures were released and you know, 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.400 we won't talk about that on the show, but honey, 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:33.680 but anyway, that happens. And then Kodak Black gets a 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.159 lap dance or whatever, turk dance and the thing and 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.080 this happened to happen. And when we're really focused on that, 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:43.080 you see the comments section light up, and I don't. 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:46.200 I'm not saying we shouldn't. I'm saying there still needs 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.000 to be joy. There still needs to be things to 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.719 take your mind off the trauma. But when somebody's talking 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.400 about voting rights or talking about other things that matter, 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:58.039 they are less people engaged. I'm again not trying to 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.880 take away folks ability to enjoy and to take their 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.960 mind off all these other crises. But we have to 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:09.559 be equally engaged because guess what our opponents, the people 0:07:09.560 --> 0:07:15.240 who work against us, they are They are methodical, strategic, 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:20.680 they are relentless, they are patient, they spend their money together. 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:24.360 I mean, these folks are very very much so invested 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.760 in their lives, their world and the world that they 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.440 want to see. They're building it, they're building it, they're 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:35.000 fighting for it now. And then that brings me to 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.520 the money conversation and what was on your page that 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:42.120 I did appreciate this Kyrie irving peace. Now all of 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:45.119 a sudden, well maybe he can play in New York 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:47.840 if we are willing to pay a find. But that's 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:50.280 always the thing about it is that that's always been 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.200 It's always been the demandates were but funds because if 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:58.560 you didn't, if you didn't um follow mandate, then there 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:00.520 was a fun you had to pay a thousand knowledge, 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.640 then another thousand and two thousands, then ultimately it was 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:08.920 five five thousand dollars every time. So for me, it's like, 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.480 why wouldn't he just why wouldn't they let him do that? Anyway? 0:08:11.520 --> 0:08:15.120 Because if he's testing and he doesn't have COVID and 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.720 he's playing their games anyway, they are different teams that 0:08:18.880 --> 0:08:21.560 every and it's not the mandate of the NBA anyway, 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:24.640 you know, the whole NBA doesn't have a mandate it's 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:28.720 just certain states exactly. Certain states have mandates. So they're 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.800 NBA players who just not vaccinated anyway, and they all 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.240 have to go through the same protocol. Anyway, whether you've 0:08:34.280 --> 0:08:36.440 vaccinated or not, you still have to take the test, 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.000 you still have to clear if you if you catch COVID, 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:42.160 you're going to COVID protocol. So if if he's still 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.280 doing that and he's willing to play the finds and 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.360 he's not coming to the game of COVID, Like, I 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.920 don't understand the whole big thing, But for me, it's 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:53.160 like it goes along with everything else in a capitalist 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:57.559 society that we will sit and say, this is being 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:01.960 forced on some folks. But these people, long as they 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:04.520 got the money, they can pay their way out of 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.400 whatever is being forced on the rest of society. I 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:12.920 was watching, um, you know, I watched several shows. Uh, 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.520 Sandford and Sons one of my big shows. I watched 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.480 it all the time, love it. UM. I also watched 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:22.800 The Golden Girls, UM, and I watched Andy Griffith Show 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:25.880 and a few a few others Good Times and the 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:29.040 jeffer and was it was it the Jeffersons because there 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.080 was the Jefferson's cartoon, and then the Jeffersons the show, right, 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.600 I don't know what I'm talking about. On man, we're 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.520 moving on us. Okay, the jet But there was the Jeffersons. 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:44.080 It was the Jetsons. So the Jeffersons. No, so I 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.199 watched I watched those shows. But I watched the and 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.360 the Griffith Show. It's one of my favorites. And in 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:56.199 the show, Barney gave um uh not opious. It's it's 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:57.720 one of the guys. I can't remember his name, but 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.000 he works in the car. He's he's fixes the car anyway, 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:05.520 gave him a ticket for um making a U turn 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:09.040 in illegal you turn. So he gave him a ticket 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:11.400 and it was a whole thing, and Barney said, I'll 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:13.240 give it to my child and give it to my mother. 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.800 You know Barney, He's like anybody could get it. So 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:19.160 they said okay, and he Barney goes on about his business. 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:24.480 So one day Barney's pulling out of the station and 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:27.880 he makes an illegal you turn, and the whole town 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:31.880 runs up to Barney, led by this guy saying, citizens arrest, 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:35.280 citizens arrest, citizens arrest. You gotta right yourself and ticket 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.520 you gotta you gotta pay because you were not going 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:42.240 to an emergency and you made an illegal U turn 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:45.560 and you the rules don't change for you. So while 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:49.280 these shows were funny, but it does represent a particular 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.160 point because of course Barney quit his job. He sat 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.800 in the cell, locked himself in the jail. You know, 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:58.360 he was super super dramatic, right, But it did make 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:01.640 the point and Andy told him. You told folks that 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:03.960 this was the rule. So how do the rules all 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:06.319 of a sudden change when it comes to you. Of 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.960 course it changes because Kyrie is helping them win games. 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:14.640 So now all of a sudden, But I think, I think, 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.199 I think it's it's a plethora of things, right, it's 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.400 it's Kyrie is helping to win games. As we move 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:25.160 along in our knowledge of what COVID is and the 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:29.600 possibility of eliminating it, how it spreads people who actually 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:33.240 still have the vaccine getting it or and and realizing 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.000 that it's still the same protocol. So when you start realizing, 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.920 and that's why Kyrie came back. Because now if you're 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:40.959 looking at the NBA, you have a bunch of people 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:44.360 who have ten day contracts because everybody's on the COVID protocol. 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:46.400 This person got COVID, so he got to sit out. 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:49.679 So now they don't even have players, So everybody's still 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:52.440 dealing with the same thing. It's not like you're eliminating anything. 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:54.640 So when they when they realize it as well, whether 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.560 you're vaccinated or not, if you don't have COVID and 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.400 you test it, you know what it is going to 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:02.840 be the difference between the people who do have who 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.920 do have a vaccine or not, because they're still coming 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.960 up with the you know, with COVID and they still 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:10.600 got to go through the same protocol. So when you 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:12.959 really think about it, doesn't really make sense that you're 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.520 stopping from playing, especially if he's still going through the 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.240 same protocol. He's still taking the test, he's going through 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:21.160 all the things. If he doesn't have it, he's already 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:23.880 had it. He went through the COVID protocol came back. 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.920 I think the biggest point that you made um on 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.439 this is that the NBA does not have an an 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:36.880 official vaccination policy. So so regardless of whether you agree 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:39.200 or not, because you're gonna have some people say well, unvaccinated, 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.840 that people create mutations, this, and that you're gonna have 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.520 all of these different discussions and arguments, but the bottom 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:49.360 line is there is no official mandate that the NBA has. 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.000 A lot of it has to do with the fact 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:56.000 that you have states with governors and probably owners who 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:59.000 are not vaccinated themselves, and and even if they are, 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:02.400 they don't believe in it, they are blocking vaccinations or whatever. 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:05.040 So it's very political. And at the end of the day, 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.199 the NBA wants to make money and they want to win. 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.800 People want to win games. So that's it. That's what 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:14.120 it comes down to. And you know, just like Barney, 0:13:14.360 --> 0:13:18.560 the rules got to be the rules, right, So but 0:13:18.559 --> 0:13:20.800 that's what I'm saying. The rules have to be the rules. 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:24.600 If there is no vaccination policy, then you can't go 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.640 say this. One man has to be forced to do it. 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:30.000 And if he doesn't, and if you do force him 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:31.679 to do it, he has the right to say I'm 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.800 walking away, right, So there's that. So look, I'm just 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.480 gonna go real quick through this particular point because i 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:41.080 know what we're talking about, and we've been preparing all weekend, um, 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:45.160 you know, for this discussion today with these great these 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:50.440 incredible incredible men leaders um and just you know, thought 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.640 leaders and everything just incredible men. And so you know, 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.320 as we're preparing and thinking through what we will talk about, 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:59.840 I happen to be in a conversation, you know, Sundays 0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:02.880 and then at my mom and dad's house, my family members, 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:05.840 a few of them come and uncle on my brother 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.280 UM every Sunday, and so we're sitting just talking and 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.360 talking about life and you know, different things, and casually 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:19.440 my brother says, yeah, I did UM five years, sixty months, 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.760 he says, in solitary confinement. And I'm like, what, Like, 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.320 first of all, I did my brother's bid. He'll tell 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:30.120 you I did all his bids since I think you know, 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.920 I don't remember when it first started, but even at 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.440 five and six years old, I knew he was going 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.600 to call on the phone. So I was because you know, 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.200 the phone was busy, there was no core waiting, right, 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.520 So I was the one like, hey, six o'clock, six o'clock, 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:46.960 you know, Derek. So that's doing a bid with somebody 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.600 when you concerned about when they call. I was concerned 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:52.600 about his box being. By the time I got to 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:54.680 ten and twelve, I was going in the grocery store 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.120 with my parents, like he needs these little shrimps. He 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.560 needs this can of this in the tuna and whatever 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.360 whatever it was. I have been involved in every part. 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:05.680 But then I became a teenager and I started hanging 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:08.000 in the street. So I must have missed five years 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:12.680 of when he was in solitary confinement. I can't believe 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:15.240 that happened to him. And my thought of the day 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:23.960 today because there I see things about my brother. While 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.120 he's wonderful, he's calmed down, he's getting to be an 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:32.240 old man now. But I see things about him that 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:34.040 and not and I don't mean it, you know, because 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.520 he's younger than some of these young cats physically and 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.560 all of that. But he's getting to be an old 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.680 man now, which is a is a good thing, right. 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:43.840 I wonder what kind of world we would be in 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:52.000 if there was mental health support, like mandatory therapy for 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.840 people who are coming out of prison, especially if they 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:57.720 were in solitary confinement, just the same way that it 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.440 should be for our veterans and others who gone through 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.760 traumatic experiences. If we want to live in a world 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:08.680 where people um do, whether recidivism rate is reduced, right, 0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.840 what if everybody had to go to ment get mental 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:15.640 health support? What if we lived like if America was that, 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:20.240 how much better would our world be? It would be 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.640 way better. Man, A lot of us are dealing with, 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.000 especially coming from prison. When you talk about that, being 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:30.200 incarcerated and being in solitary confinement is one of the worst. 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:35.640 It's it's complete detachment, right. It desensitizes you to so 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:40.360 many things. It makes you crave seclusion. It makes you 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:44.400 not want to you know, have um trust issues, It 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:49.160 makes you have interaction issues. It makes you calculate. It 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:53.800 makes you really sit and think about things and calculate 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.560 them in a manner that the average person don't. So 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.760 when I sit here and think about what you're saying about, 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.160 because you don't ship Derek being it, and I could 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.520 look at Derek and I could tell that because I 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.200 understand he's a good dude, you know, and he's vibrating 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.520 all these things. But you could see how it affected him. 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:13.159 You know, you can really see how it affected him. 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:14.879 And I tell people all the time, you've done more 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:19.639 than sixty days inside tory confinement. There is a level 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:24.000 of trauma and mental health that you're dealing with that 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.240 you don't even realize because you start to normalize things 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:30.920 they're not even normal anymore, you know, so we definitely 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.160 need mental health. I think that should be a requirement. 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:35.919 I think, I think because we we don't even like 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.440 I find myself talking to certain people and it becomes therapeutic. 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.520 It's only two or three people that I could talk 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:45.200 to that I feel identify what it is that I've 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.440 been through. I've been through similar things. And I call 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.160 these two or three people and and I and every 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.800 time we talked, I find out something more about myself, 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.080 you know what I'm saying just listening to them, and 0:17:57.080 --> 0:17:59.320 I'm giving me their perspective, even if we don't agree, 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:03.199 and we debating back and forth, but it's always therapeutic 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:06.200 for me. It's always like wow, And I find therapeutic 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:09.639 just my own solitude. And I think, I don't know 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:13.080 if that's normal, right. I'm most creative when I'm by myself. 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.640 I'm most creative when I'm just walking alone. I find 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.480 myself in a different space, like I create that, you know, 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.680 and I don't. And sometimes I don't know if it's 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:27.040 good or bad. You know, it's challenging when you have 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.480 a family and there and and everybody wants engagement or 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.560 you're a part of a project, and people want you 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.440 to be engaged, but I even I have to get 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:37.960 by myself in order to hear and to and to 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.080 be in tune with my leadership. Um, and you know, 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.240 to read and stay focused. And so I don't know 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:46.200 if it's a bad thing, but I do know that 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:50.200 there's some just some some fundamental issues about this country 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:53.040 that really need to be shifted in order for us 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:59.560 to be a healthy society. All year we are really 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:03.679 working to bring in more black male owned businesses. We 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.240 need to hear from black men who have products, services, 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:12.200 and um, you know, particularly um black men, but everybody anybody, 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.440 but we're looking specifically for black men. And so if 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.639 you have a business, a real business, we tell you 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:19.679 all the time's got to have like a tax idea 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:23.080 bank account, real business, please hit us up in the 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:27.120 d M s at Street Politicians Pod at Street Politicians 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:29.720 Pod and our team they're in there. They're looking for 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.080 the dopest businesses out there, and we want to be 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.240 able to elevate your platform and to to really bring 0:19:36.280 --> 0:19:40.840 some awareness to your products and services. So, as usual, 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:43.840 you know, on Street Politicians we have a lot of friends. 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.040 We usually bring our friends to the table and back. 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.120 These three brothers are brothers that I consider friends who 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:56.800 are very UM, inspirational, motivational, from different walks of life 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.480 and um they've inspired me in different ways. First, I 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:05.760 would like to introduce my brother, Shakas and Gore, a writer, entrepreneur, speaker, 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:09.920 inspiring speaker, leading voice in criminal justice reform, and president 0:20:09.960 --> 0:20:14.080 of Shakas and Incorporated. Shaka Um was locked up for 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:17.960 a homicide ended up doing nineteen years in prison. He 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:21.280 was released in two thousand and ten after spending seven 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:25.280 years of his prison sent inside of solitary confinement. He 0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:28.960 wrote a memoir which is a dope memoire. He's recipient 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:33.680 of numerous awards. I can't even name all awards he got. 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.560 We'll be sitting here doing the whole episode on that. 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.239 But UM, welcome Shakas and Gore to the to the 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:42.600 panel today. What's going on? Shaka Um, blessed man. Thank 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:44.040 you all so much for having me. It's good to 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:46.600 see all faces. I know it's been a while since 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.359 we all been in person, and UH just inspired to 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:51.679 be here and honored to be here, So thank you 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:55.680 all for having definitely man, thanks for being here. UM. Next, 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.760 We have another one, a brother that I respect. You know, 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.840 he's the different. He took a different route. He grew 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:05.399 up where I'm from, my hometown, the Bronx. He's attorney 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:09.520 Royce Russell Um. He went to Hopstra University where he 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.520 got his lawyer degree, became a criminal defense and civil 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.800 rights lawyer in New York City. He's my lawyer. You 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:17.920 know what I'm saying. He calls, he does, He's got 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:19.680 us out of a lot of stuff and got us 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:22.280 into some more stuff. You know what I'm saying. He 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:28.680 specialized in criminal defense, false arrest, police brutality, civil rights violations, immigration, 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.560 contract employment, all types of things. He's he's one of 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:34.720 the dopest lawyers that I know. He also now has 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:39.879 a book called um Cardiac book is called Cardiac Arrest. 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:45.040 It's a tactical guy on how to handle unlawful police stops. 0:21:45.080 --> 0:21:49.359 So welcome my brother and friend, Royce Russell to the table. 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:52.840 Attorney Royce Russell, how you doing, king? Alright? Alright? As 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:55.520 Shoka said, I'm always I'm very happy to see her 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.320 face with the voice. You know, I always hear the 0:21:58.400 --> 0:22:01.000 voice because we're communicating all the time. But it's nice 0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:03.720 to see the face. And you know, I just try 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.360 to do the right thing by right people when you're 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.080 out here in the streets. So thank you. Well. I 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:13.120 appreciate that man, because think you said Shocker's book what 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:15.919 you said? He has a memoir, but it's actually called 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:20.399 Righting My Wrongs. Right in My Wrongs, Life, Death and 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:24.360 Redemption in the American Prison. It was released in two 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.680 thousand sixteen and it was a New York Times bestseller. 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:31.240 I mean, I told you we'll be sitting here talking 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:35.760 about all the stuff that Sho got forever. I could 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:38.719 do a lot of stuff. Man Like listen, Shaka always 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:44.040 calls me with a new idea, got movies plays like Shakers. 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:47.840 He's definitely he's what He's what you should think about 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:51.240 when you when you talk about, you know, rehabilitation and 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:54.600 redemption and coming home from prison. He's a mottel for 0:22:54.800 --> 0:22:56.480 what does should look like, you know, when you come 0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:59.000 home and you evolved to the next level. And this 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:02.400 brother is also one of those brothers. This is Mr 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:06.480 Kevin Child's, CEO, co founder of Don Deva magazine. Kevin 0:23:06.560 --> 0:23:11.760 Child's is a previous street pharmacist, turn business person and creator. 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:15.159 He is most popular for running a medication racket in 0:23:15.200 --> 0:23:18.199 the rows of Harlem during the nineteen eighties. He was 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:25.000 charged with tax evasion, Opio's trafficking, racketeering, racketeering following the 0:23:25.160 --> 0:23:28.840 supplication bargain. He also served ten years in government prison. 0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:33.920 He opened apparel and boutiques using proceeds from the narcotic 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:37.639 transactions boss Sneakers and Bossing Porium with two of his 0:23:37.680 --> 0:23:41.119 investments in the nineteen eighties. Child He's also found it 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:45.200 Big Big Boss Records, his own record label. Um He's 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:47.040 done so much and now he is the writer of 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:49.800 a book called The Crack Error, The Rise, Fall in 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:53.000 the Redemption of Kevin Child's. Welcome Kevin Childs to the 0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:58.480 show today. What's going on? Kevin hey man, Good afternoon, 0:23:58.560 --> 0:24:00.280 ladies and gentlemen. I'm just on a to be a 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:05.359 part of the panel. I appreciate the invite, Yes, man, right, 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:07.639 Black men write books. You know when we thought about 0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:10.479 this show, well, I was just thinking about, you know, 0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:13.399 how different ways that we've evolved. You know, being formally 0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:16.480 incarcerated after spending seven years in prison. You know, we 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:20.680 get such a bad rap, you know about coming home 0:24:20.840 --> 0:24:23.439 and or being in prisoned. People don't believe that you 0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:26.360 can evolve from that. They have this stigma that you're 0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:30.280 criminal and it's just crime, you know. And what I realized, 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:32.280 like I told people all the time, when you're a 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:34.240 drug dealer, you just sell drugs. When you're a hustler, 0:24:34.280 --> 0:24:36.879 you can sell anything, you know, and a lot of 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:40.080 us were, but naturally hustlers. When we went to jail, 0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:42.399 we just had the wrong product that we were selling, 0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:44.679 you know. So when I when I see brothers like 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:47.480 Kevin Childs, and I see brothers like Shockers and Goal 0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:49.760 and just the brilliant minds that they are. Like when 0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:53.000 you sit and talk to these brothers, they're brilliant, literally brilliant, 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:54.920 you know, and they don't and a lot of people 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:58.480 don't understand the level of brilliance that they've have and 0:24:58.560 --> 0:25:01.119 just seeing the evolution. So I want to utilize my 0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:04.040 platform to be able to elevate these brothers and then 0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:08.240 also bring someone like Royce Russell in the conversation who 0:25:08.280 --> 0:25:11.000 came from the same beginnings that we come from the 0:25:11.040 --> 0:25:15.040 same areas, but he utilized his mentality to do a 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:17.439 different He took a different route, you know. But it's 0:25:17.560 --> 0:25:20.240 when you I'm telling you. These brothers are all similar. 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:22.480 I speak to them and have conversations, and they all 0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:25.520 have the similar mindframe and they're all about the same thing. 0:25:25.600 --> 0:25:28.160 So I just wanted to talk about their books, talk 0:25:28.200 --> 0:25:31.320 about their evolution, talk about their processes, you know, and 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:34.280 just give them some praise, man, and utilize our platform. 0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:37.680 Now all about the praise for black men. So let's 0:25:37.760 --> 0:25:40.520 jump right into it. So why don't we talk about 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:43.680 the books? UM? You know what what encouraged you Shotgun, 0:25:43.960 --> 0:25:48.359 Kevin Um and Royce to write your books? Um? You 0:25:48.400 --> 0:25:51.879 know the first of all the titles of each book 0:25:51.960 --> 0:25:55.280 are It's very powerful, um. And so maybe we should 0:25:55.280 --> 0:25:58.880 start their you know what encouraged you to to um 0:25:59.440 --> 0:26:02.000 to to write a book and then title it what 0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:05.199 you did? So let's start with Shaka, thank you so 0:26:05.280 --> 0:26:07.800 much and so good to seat to make. Uh. So, 0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:11.200 my first book, which is my first main stream release, 0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:13.959 not the first book that I wrote. UM. Writing My 0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:17.000 Wrongs was inspired by a couple of things. One, I 0:26:17.040 --> 0:26:18.960 was really fortunate when I was in prison and have 0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:23.280 incredible mentors who guided me the books. And I used 0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:25.359 to tell this story that the most important book I 0:26:25.400 --> 0:26:29.320 read was Malcolm X's autobiography, and I realized that wasn't true. 0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:32.480 The most important book I read was Donald Gorn's Dope 0:26:32.520 --> 0:26:35.320 Pin because he was writing about the inner city and 0:26:35.359 --> 0:26:39.000 writing about the reality that I had actually came from. 0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:42.640 And that book led me to read Malcolm X's autobiography. 0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:47.440 So I have a deep passionate love for writers in general. 0:26:47.520 --> 0:26:51.560 You know, the legacy of brilliant writers, the James Baldwin's 0:26:51.640 --> 0:26:55.200 and Alex Hadez of the world and Manya Angelo, who 0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:57.680 you know is the Queen's you know to me when 0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:02.159 it comes to a personal narrative of So that energy 0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:05.359 of writing as a way of healing was something that 0:27:05.480 --> 0:27:08.280 was deeply embedded. And then it was a Kanye song. 0:27:08.320 --> 0:27:10.679 I was listening to this verse when he was like, 0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:12.880 it's funny how these songs helped me write my wrongs 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:16.840 and some iteration of that, and I was like, man, 0:27:16.840 --> 0:27:19.840 it's a brilliant title for a book, because I started 0:27:19.840 --> 0:27:22.960 off journaling first before I even wrote a book, because 0:27:22.960 --> 0:27:26.240 I had to heal from the traumatic experience of being 0:27:26.240 --> 0:27:29.760 incarcerated at a young age. You know, the traumatic experience 0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:33.320 of actually taking someone's life, something that we don't talk about, 0:27:33.680 --> 0:27:36.639 you know, we often talk about the trauma of being, 0:27:36.880 --> 0:27:39.040 you know, the victim of gun violence, but we don't 0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:41.680 talk about the long enduring trauma when you take somebody's 0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:45.360 life and how that continues to stay and endure no 0:27:45.400 --> 0:27:47.360 matter what. You know, if I robbed somebody, I could 0:27:47.359 --> 0:27:49.520 get him back what I took, but you can never 0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:52.720 you know, restore life in that way. And so, you know, 0:27:52.760 --> 0:27:55.480 I thought it was really important to share that. And 0:27:55.520 --> 0:27:57.239 you know, as you may know, I have a new 0:27:57.280 --> 0:28:00.000 book coming out, let Us to the Sons of Society. Uh, 0:28:00.160 --> 0:28:03.679 And that title came from being inspired by the letters 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:06.640 my dad wrote me while I was in prison. Um, 0:28:06.680 --> 0:28:09.160 we wrote, you know for nineteen years. We often don't 0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:12.680 hear the story of black fathers or fathers in general, 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:16.600 who stand by the children's side through adversity. And my dad, 0:28:16.800 --> 0:28:19.480 you know, wrote me for nineteen years. We exchanged letters, 0:28:19.480 --> 0:28:23.439 we argued, we debated, we joked, UM, and I wanted 0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:26.440 to you know, really memorialize the world that we live 0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:29.560 in for my two sons, one who's thirty years old 0:28:29.960 --> 0:28:34.119 and one who's ten years old. M So, what was so, 0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:38.040 I know, you have a new book that you're you're releasing. Yeah, 0:28:38.480 --> 0:28:40.440 you just said, it's a new book. What is it 0:28:40.480 --> 0:28:45.600 called again? Call Letters to the Sons of Society? The Honesty, 0:28:45.760 --> 0:28:50.040 Freedom and Love. So where are you? So you're in 0:28:50.080 --> 0:28:54.160 the writing process now or you finished? Now it's done? 0:28:54.200 --> 0:28:59.360 It actually comes out Tuesday. How many how many books 0:28:59.440 --> 0:29:01.600 you would you say that you've written that you haven't released? 0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:05.800 So originally I started off self publishing our self publish 0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:09.200 for then went to mainstream publishing. But I got a 0:29:09.240 --> 0:29:11.760 total of about eight catalogs. My goal is to d 0:29:11.840 --> 0:29:14.680 ten um and I'll be re releasing some of my 0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:21.400 earlier work at a future dates. That's dope. So, Kevin Kevi, 0:29:21.480 --> 0:29:24.840 what what was your inspiration behind your book? The title? 0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:27.880 You know, just give us a little peep into your 0:29:27.880 --> 0:29:31.880 brain about what you're thinking about. Um, well, let me 0:29:31.880 --> 0:29:34.840 back up a little bit. You know, Uh, Don Diva 0:29:35.680 --> 0:29:38.280 I created when I was incos redd and the reason 0:29:38.320 --> 0:29:41.720 for me doing that was that I realized that how 0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:45.120 our communities weren't aware of certain information that you know, 0:29:45.200 --> 0:29:47.800 that caused me to make some bad decisions in my life. 0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:50.120 So the creation of that started while I was incose reading. 0:29:50.480 --> 0:29:52.640 So for almost twenty years now, we've been publishing Don 0:29:52.680 --> 0:29:54.720 Diva and Our motto was like, you know, we are 0:29:54.840 --> 0:29:59.200 educated and entertained, you know, and it encompasses away creatively 0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:04.280 that we provide information that wouldn't ordinarily be read readily available, 0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:06.560 you know, some of the pitfalls that happened our communities, 0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:10.680 from everything from uh, repairing your credit to some of 0:30:10.680 --> 0:30:13.040 the laws that we often find about we found out 0:30:13.040 --> 0:30:17.040 about after we inconcerated, you know. Having said that fast forward, UH, 0:30:17.080 --> 0:30:18.560 to be quite honest with you, you you had a lot 0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:19.800 to doo with me write in this book to be 0:30:19.840 --> 0:30:22.600 honest with you, like so, um, that's the situation that 0:30:22.680 --> 0:30:25.080 you're quite away when you went up to ninety seven, 0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:27.040 which caused me that they have to go up there 0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:29.960 to to to expound on what you what you have 0:30:30.040 --> 0:30:33.200 been talking about. Um. I realized after that interview that 0:30:33.240 --> 0:30:35.400 it seemed like people was interested in and what I 0:30:35.400 --> 0:30:38.120 had to say and me more personally. So I think 0:30:38.440 --> 0:30:41.080 probably days after that, I was encouraged to start writing. 0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:42.800 So from the time that I was up there, which 0:30:42.840 --> 0:30:45.240 was like in twenty sixteen, I think maybe the next 0:30:45.240 --> 0:30:49.280 two years I spent um, you know, just writing more 0:30:49.320 --> 0:30:52.480 specifically about the time period and myself. UM. But that 0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:55.360 derived from my invitation to come up to High ninety 0:30:55.360 --> 0:30:58.360 seven after you had came, can tell us the story, 0:30:58.760 --> 0:31:02.400 like we all want to know it happened. Well, so 0:31:02.480 --> 0:31:04.800 basically what he's talking about and I and I never 0:31:04.880 --> 0:31:06.880 knew this, you know what I'm saying, so that I'm 0:31:06.960 --> 0:31:09.960 honored to even be able to inspire something like that. Um, 0:31:10.000 --> 0:31:12.239 when I did my freestyle on High ninety seven, I 0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:15.960 talked about a lot of the intricates of the streets 0:31:16.760 --> 0:31:20.280 and I'm talking about the freestyle that everybody the whole 0:31:20.480 --> 0:31:25.320 world was and just broke down certain principles, you know, 0:31:25.400 --> 0:31:29.320 about snitching and certain people that were glorified in the culture. 0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:32.520 And um, Kevi being from that era and that culture 0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:36.160 was one of the people that that when I talked 0:31:36.200 --> 0:31:40.200 about certain situations that happened, flex has said something about it. 0:31:40.720 --> 0:31:43.800 And then UM, it went into what we need to 0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:45.800 get Kevin Child's up here so he can have and 0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:48.400 listen to what he talks about. So Kevin somebody that's 0:31:48.440 --> 0:31:50.560 been respected in the streets and just in the culture 0:31:50.600 --> 0:31:53.120 in general, you know. And um, we set up the 0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:55.200 interview to where he went up to High ninety seven 0:31:55.560 --> 0:31:58.320 and he asked him about principle in the streets and 0:31:58.360 --> 0:32:02.280 what makes this snitching? And what are these certain rules 0:32:02.320 --> 0:32:04.880 and codes? And he just broke it down so eloquently, 0:32:05.320 --> 0:32:07.520 you know, a way that even I couldn't do it, 0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:10.400 because he just has a different understanding the way that 0:32:10.440 --> 0:32:12.720 he he just you just hear him speak and where 0:32:12.720 --> 0:32:14.640 he put like a street farmer says, most people don't 0:32:14.640 --> 0:32:17.080 say street farm us. But this is just how keV 0:32:17.560 --> 0:32:19.840 you know, he presents things. So when he went up there, 0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:22.760 he broke it down. And UM, I guess, like he said, 0:32:22.840 --> 0:32:25.640 just having that conversation and seeing how people were interested 0:32:26.080 --> 0:32:29.040 and just understanding how he thought and how he perceived things, 0:32:29.480 --> 0:32:31.360 and he just put it into books. So that Wow, 0:32:31.440 --> 0:32:34.600 that's amazing. I'm honored to have had anything to do 0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:38.280 with that. Man. I appreciate that. Well. I'm happy that 0:32:38.320 --> 0:32:40.280 it occurred that way, because I would have never did it. 0:32:40.320 --> 0:32:42.400 Like I said, we have been publishing this magazine for 0:32:42.440 --> 0:32:46.800 over twenty years and and we have been um interview 0:32:46.840 --> 0:32:49.440 on certain individuals that you know, I felt that the 0:32:49.440 --> 0:32:52.479 community have found very interesting to help to deliver our message. 0:32:52.480 --> 0:32:53.840 And at no point in time that I ever put 0:32:53.880 --> 0:32:55.880 much of the emphasis on myself for the most part, 0:32:56.400 --> 0:33:00.120 So like I said, coming coming from that interview and 0:33:00.160 --> 0:33:02.640 seeing how well it was received and they're going viral. 0:33:03.200 --> 0:33:06.000 I was encouraged thereafter, like with Kevi, you you probably 0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:08.160 need to do something like that, and I put pen 0:33:08.240 --> 0:33:12.840 to paper and that's really how that came about. Wow. Wow, 0:33:12.920 --> 0:33:16.480 that's very very encouraging to hear that story and how 0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:21.000 everything connected, you know, And it's crazy that that your 0:33:21.080 --> 0:33:24.880 freestyle was in two thousand and sixteen. That's been it 0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:28.040 seems time just flying by. But that's a whole different day, 0:33:28.080 --> 0:33:31.360 a whole different conversation about the universe. So Royce, tell 0:33:31.440 --> 0:33:33.280 us about your book. I mean, I know a lot 0:33:33.320 --> 0:33:36.560 about about cardiac the rest, and just so happy you 0:33:36.600 --> 0:33:39.080 took the time to sit down and really in your 0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:42.040 own way, right the letters to our sons, right, So 0:33:42.200 --> 0:33:45.959 talk about your experience with writing the book. But one 0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:49.200 of the things that you guys mentioned earlier, the song 0:33:49.360 --> 0:33:52.680 my song, you're talking about, you know, being a hustler 0:33:53.160 --> 0:33:57.000 and being an entrepreneur. I think all those things is 0:33:57.040 --> 0:34:01.440 something that we have in common, but also the cultural tie. Right, 0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:04.680 you could be an entrepreneur have no cultural tie, and 0:34:04.720 --> 0:34:09.239 although you might be financially successful, you really meaningless in 0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:13.560 your soul. So when I looked at cardiac arrest, I 0:34:13.600 --> 0:34:16.440 did look at one, the cultural tie between me and 0:34:16.480 --> 0:34:20.480 the community. And number two, you know, as a business person, 0:34:21.120 --> 0:34:25.279 what does my community need is the void? Right? What 0:34:25.360 --> 0:34:28.799 do we need to learn? Right? And so in doing that, 0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:32.239 I'm saying, but we're marching, We're talking what is going 0:34:32.280 --> 0:34:36.480 to be the long lasting document or documents that folks 0:34:36.560 --> 0:34:39.000 can have over a period of time to read, to, 0:34:39.000 --> 0:34:41.719 to go to. We had the Green Book, we have 0:34:41.880 --> 0:34:45.759 the Bible. We have a bunch of books out there 0:34:45.840 --> 0:34:48.719 and guides out there to help us through life. So 0:34:48.920 --> 0:34:51.279 looking at it from a cultural and the academic and 0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:56.680 and an awareness perspective, when you know you have larrrangitis, 0:34:57.440 --> 0:35:00.400 Tamika has laryerrangized, and you're not out there in the 0:35:00.440 --> 0:35:04.160 in the forefront speaking where we're getting the information from? 0:35:04.360 --> 0:35:07.000 Right when you're time is divided and you're doing other things. 0:35:07.320 --> 0:35:09.520 Where are we getting this information from? How could we 0:35:09.600 --> 0:35:12.000 make this information with us? Take take up with us 0:35:12.120 --> 0:35:14.520 all day every day. And that's how I came to 0:35:14.600 --> 0:35:17.560 cardiac arrest. I mean you mentioned the title. The title 0:35:17.719 --> 0:35:22.239 is is really just an example of our life as 0:35:22.520 --> 0:35:25.880 people of brown and black color skin out here in America, 0:35:25.960 --> 0:35:30.680 when police stop you, whether you're driving or whether you're walking, 0:35:31.560 --> 0:35:33.920 you do have the same symptoms that you have. And 0:35:33.960 --> 0:35:37.000 when you think you're having a heart attack, your hands 0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:41.520 get sweaty, your blood your your your blood pressure goes up. 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:45.200 You know, you start thinking about, well, at least for me, 0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:48.200 what I did in the past, what my future is 0:35:48.239 --> 0:35:50.680 gonna look like, what's going on with the present. So 0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:54.080 it is, if not a death experience, it's definitely a 0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:57.759 near death experience, right, and your heart stopped. And so 0:35:57.880 --> 0:36:01.160 that's where I got cardiac from. The arrest came from, 0:36:01.200 --> 0:36:04.520 because really, is the situation resolved where you're not arrested, 0:36:05.080 --> 0:36:07.799 Something's gonna happen. The cuffs are coming somewhere. And we 0:36:07.840 --> 0:36:10.680 can define what arrest means, whether that means process down 0:36:10.680 --> 0:36:13.360 at the precinct, or whether that means standing in handcuffs 0:36:13.360 --> 0:36:15.319 in front of your car or in front of your 0:36:15.320 --> 0:36:18.960 loved ones on the street or on the alley. It 0:36:19.080 --> 0:36:22.080 still is what it is. So how do we perpetuate that? 0:36:22.560 --> 0:36:25.080 You know? And so I went and wrote the book 0:36:25.160 --> 0:36:28.640 based upon my experiences growing up in the Bronx, growing 0:36:28.719 --> 0:36:31.839 up in an area that is not serviced growing up 0:36:31.840 --> 0:36:34.520 in the in the projects, as they say, and kind 0:36:34.560 --> 0:36:37.239 of extrapolate on that and my experience as being in 0:36:37.280 --> 0:36:40.759 a civil rights attorney. We translate that book into Spanish, 0:36:41.160 --> 0:36:43.760 and now we have a workbook where brothers and sisters 0:36:43.800 --> 0:36:48.600 can sit down and they can look at questions, look 0:36:48.600 --> 0:36:52.400 at answers, multiple choice A, B and C. Pick an answer. 0:36:52.480 --> 0:36:54.480 We can have a discussion why the answer is right 0:36:54.560 --> 0:36:57.360 or wrong? Or are there two answers that are the same. 0:36:57.719 --> 0:37:00.200 You just happen to pick one and I just happen 0:37:00.239 --> 0:37:02.640 to pick another. And then have a process where they 0:37:02.680 --> 0:37:05.720 can do critical thinking. They can write down their thoughts 0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:08.759 of what they see, how they vision their community, how 0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:12.360 can they become a leader, you know, using analytical skills, 0:37:12.880 --> 0:37:17.000 you know, understanding how the constitution works with you actually 0:37:17.000 --> 0:37:21.000 being arrested. So although we're having changed for those here 0:37:21.200 --> 0:37:22.879 who may or may not know in New York City, 0:37:22.880 --> 0:37:25.759 from an educational standpoint, we see how far, we will 0:37:25.800 --> 0:37:28.280 see how far change comes, because this should be part 0:37:28.920 --> 0:37:32.560 of our education system, because it combines the reality of 0:37:32.640 --> 0:37:35.480 what's happening to most people that didn't live in America, 0:37:35.600 --> 0:37:38.920 and it gives you an education of civics and critical thinking. 0:37:39.000 --> 0:37:41.880 So that's how I got to where I am. That's dope. 0:37:42.080 --> 0:37:45.560 And when I'm listening to you, it correlates and connects 0:37:45.560 --> 0:37:47.840 to what was saying. What he was doing with Dan Dieva, 0:37:47.960 --> 0:37:52.560 like giving knowledge about laws, insist things in the system 0:37:52.640 --> 0:37:55.920 that he didn't he wasn't privy to until he actually 0:37:55.960 --> 0:37:59.359 went to prison. So he utilized the magazine to give 0:37:59.400 --> 0:38:02.719 information and entertained at the same time. And just you're 0:38:02.719 --> 0:38:05.640 doing the same thing, utilize in this book to you know, 0:38:05.719 --> 0:38:09.160 inform people about how the system works and certain things 0:38:09.160 --> 0:38:10.759 to do with the system. So I told you that 0:38:10.880 --> 0:38:14.640 you have so much connection and have so many similarities. 0:38:15.080 --> 0:38:19.200 That's dope. But um Shoka and keV and and the 0:38:19.200 --> 0:38:23.160 titles of your books, there's the word redemption, you know, 0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:25.279 and I just want to know y'all expand what does 0:38:25.400 --> 0:38:27.799 redemption look like to you? How do you feel like 0:38:27.840 --> 0:38:30.759 you redeemed? You are redeemed, or do you feel like 0:38:30.760 --> 0:38:33.520 it's gonna take loan You're never gonna be redeemed. And 0:38:33.560 --> 0:38:36.279 if if you do feel like you're not redeemed, that 0:38:36.400 --> 0:38:38.960 you can be redeemed, what what will it look like? 0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:43.640 What would you have to do to be redeemed. I'm 0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:48.839 gonna start Kevin, you wanna go, um feel free? Yeah, 0:38:48.960 --> 0:38:51.919 you know, I think my redemption took place far before 0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:54.480 I got out of prison, because it really had to 0:38:54.520 --> 0:38:56.680 come from within my community, and they had to come 0:38:56.680 --> 0:39:00.920 from our people. I never thought that the system itself 0:39:01.520 --> 0:39:03.480 would give me a second chance, and even at this 0:39:03.520 --> 0:39:06.600 point in my career. Uh, there's tons of obstacles that 0:39:06.719 --> 0:39:11.439 stand in a way of just living a normal life, right. Um. 0:39:11.880 --> 0:39:13.640 And that's kind of part for the course when you 0:39:13.640 --> 0:39:16.560 think about being black in America. But just for an example, 0:39:16.600 --> 0:39:19.759 you know, people don't know that if you have a felony, 0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:22.440 it's hard to get life insurance, it's hard to get 0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:25.560 home insurance. Uh. It as a homeowner and as someone 0:39:25.560 --> 0:39:30.239 who wants to ensure that I protect my my son. Uh, 0:39:30.360 --> 0:39:32.560 you know, and even in my demise, those things are 0:39:32.719 --> 0:39:35.560 are obstacles there, you know, things that we have to navigate. 0:39:35.840 --> 0:39:38.319 So I never have thought that the system itself will 0:39:38.400 --> 0:39:42.400 be open to allowing us to to, you know, redeem ourselves. 0:39:42.480 --> 0:39:44.799 But for me, it was really about community. And a 0:39:44.800 --> 0:39:47.560 lot of my work started while I was in prison. 0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:50.760 You know, Um, I had you know, these older brothers 0:39:51.239 --> 0:39:53.120 who challenged me, you know, and they challenged me to 0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:55.640 grow when I was the hothead on the yard and 0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:58.080 eventually became like one of the main shot callers on 0:39:58.120 --> 0:40:00.760 the yard, and I was operating out of those broken 0:40:00.960 --> 0:40:03.800 motions of anger and violence and getting them more troubles 0:40:03.800 --> 0:40:06.040 while I ended up, you know, serving seven years of 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:09.960 salitary confinement. But those brothers always saw something redeemable in it, 0:40:10.440 --> 0:40:12.440 and they poured into me, and they fared me books 0:40:12.440 --> 0:40:14.960 and they challenged my ideas. You know, I tell people, 0:40:14.960 --> 0:40:18.400 I used to go to the to the librarian, um, 0:40:18.440 --> 0:40:20.359 you know, every week, and I would battle with these 0:40:20.400 --> 0:40:22.960 older brothers. You know, we would have these intense debates 0:40:23.000 --> 0:40:25.880 around books that they had selected, in books that I 0:40:25.880 --> 0:40:29.680 had selected, and because I read relatively fast, they would 0:40:29.719 --> 0:40:32.000 often think that I didn't read the books, and so 0:40:32.080 --> 0:40:34.440 they would grill me, like, yo, okay, what was Malcolm 0:40:34.520 --> 0:40:37.000 talking about on this phase? What did Marcus Garvey mean 0:40:37.040 --> 0:40:38.759 about that? You know what I'm saying. And then they 0:40:38.760 --> 0:40:41.000 were swinging to philosophy. You know what is Tyler, you 0:40:41.000 --> 0:40:43.719 know Zoo talking about over here? And so that just 0:40:43.840 --> 0:40:47.200 sharpened me. But it also grew me. And even though 0:40:47.320 --> 0:40:50.680 I was rebellious. You know, I caught thirty six misconducts 0:40:50.719 --> 0:40:53.920 when I was in prison. Um when I needed that wisdom, 0:40:53.920 --> 0:40:56.600 when I was ready to transform my life, all of 0:40:56.640 --> 0:40:59.080 that they had poured into me came rushing back to me. 0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:02.279 And so that's where redemption started. I was an organizer 0:41:02.280 --> 0:41:04.920 in prison. I actually talked about it, uh in my 0:41:05.000 --> 0:41:08.280 new book and one of the chapters about resistance, and 0:41:08.680 --> 0:41:11.680 I remember us organizing three hundred men on the yard 0:41:12.160 --> 0:41:14.239 because we was tat of these two officers who was 0:41:14.280 --> 0:41:17.520 just running rough shot over people. And I was smart 0:41:17.640 --> 0:41:20.000 enough to know that if we just vitally attacked them, 0:41:20.160 --> 0:41:22.840 we're definitely getting shot down. So what I did is 0:41:22.880 --> 0:41:25.880 I figured out a way to bend the rules and 0:41:25.960 --> 0:41:30.000 basically organized in groups of six and we all did exercise, 0:41:30.080 --> 0:41:33.200 but they were all different exercises, but we all did 0:41:33.239 --> 0:41:36.920 one cadence and that wasn't technically illegal, but the voice 0:41:36.960 --> 0:41:40.879 of three hundred men speaking in cadence at one time 0:41:40.880 --> 0:41:43.600 in the prison yard completely shook the prison up, and 0:41:43.600 --> 0:41:45.960 they knew that they had to dress that. So, to me, 0:41:46.120 --> 0:41:50.000 redemption started well before I walked out of prison. You know, 0:41:50.040 --> 0:41:51.920 I started writing before I walked out of prison, and 0:41:51.920 --> 0:41:54.640 then I came home as a servant in my community, 0:41:54.960 --> 0:41:58.520 in which I still serve our mentor all across the country. Um. 0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:01.840 You know, I've helped build organized as I'm a supporter 0:42:02.000 --> 0:42:05.799 and a resource for many organizations. And so to me, 0:42:05.840 --> 0:42:07.640 it's really just about what my people think, you know 0:42:07.680 --> 0:42:10.279 what I'm saying, Uh, Because the system, you know, they 0:42:10.320 --> 0:42:13.280 don't really care, you know, to the degree in which 0:42:13.440 --> 0:42:20.440 you know we would identify as redemptive. Well, keV, So 0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:24.000 what does redemption look like to you? Um? For me, 0:42:24.080 --> 0:42:27.640 redemption is as as a personal perspective. For me, I 0:42:27.640 --> 0:42:30.640 don't ever think that, um, I was a bad person. 0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:33.880 You know, I feel as though I made certain choices 0:42:34.280 --> 0:42:39.279 that egregiously affected people in my community. But for me, 0:42:40.000 --> 0:42:42.960 I've always considered myself to be a decent person, and 0:42:43.000 --> 0:42:44.279 I think they had a lot to do with how 0:42:44.480 --> 0:42:46.799 my outcome because I've always treated people more than fair. 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:52.400 You know. Um, what when I started thinking about it 0:42:52.400 --> 0:42:55.680 in the term more specific redemption, you know, it was, 0:42:55.920 --> 0:42:57.239 like I said, it was a personal It was a 0:42:57.280 --> 0:42:59.440 personal endeavor for me and my family. You know, I 0:43:00.040 --> 0:43:02.359 wanted my family to forgive me from not for for 0:43:02.360 --> 0:43:04.439 for my absence in their lives and not being able 0:43:04.480 --> 0:43:06.359 to raise my kids for a certain amount of time. 0:43:06.840 --> 0:43:08.399 You know, I sat with that for a long time 0:43:08.440 --> 0:43:10.839 in prison, because my intention was always to take care 0:43:10.840 --> 0:43:14.040 of my family. Then the exact opposite end up ultimately 0:43:14.040 --> 0:43:15.799 happened when I wasn't there to protect them or to 0:43:15.840 --> 0:43:18.239 take care of them, you know. So I wanted first 0:43:18.280 --> 0:43:21.040 and foremost my family to forgive me, you know, because 0:43:21.239 --> 0:43:23.200 my my decisions and choice caused me not to be 0:43:23.239 --> 0:43:24.719 there to be a father to my children and to 0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:26.960 raise them and to provide the things that I always 0:43:26.960 --> 0:43:28.759 wanted to have. I always wanted them to have a 0:43:28.760 --> 0:43:30.600 better life than I had. I knew some of the 0:43:30.680 --> 0:43:32.600 choices that I made and life was just due to 0:43:32.640 --> 0:43:34.840 circumstances and my reality of what they was. And it 0:43:34.960 --> 0:43:39.160 was all with good intentions, you know. Um, So I 0:43:39.200 --> 0:43:41.880 was on a personal crusade to do that. So from 0:43:41.920 --> 0:43:44.239 the day that I walked out of prison, there's no 0:43:44.239 --> 0:43:45.959 way to make it for time, but I spent every 0:43:46.000 --> 0:43:48.279 moment trying to get my life back together, and and 0:43:48.280 --> 0:43:50.840 and and and provide the right example for my my 0:43:50.920 --> 0:43:53.560 sons and of course my daughter. So I spent every 0:43:53.600 --> 0:43:55.920 moment just trying to do the right thing, and you know, 0:43:55.960 --> 0:43:59.200 and and actually begged them for forgiveness ultimately, you know, 0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:05.120 because like stated just presently, redemption has has a different 0:44:05.160 --> 0:44:07.800 look for certain people, like society may never may never 0:44:08.840 --> 0:44:12.080 consider me redeemable. You know. Um, I made a way 0:44:12.120 --> 0:44:14.880 when I came home to to move my family to 0:44:14.960 --> 0:44:18.680 the fluent neighborhood, to create the opportunity for my kids 0:44:18.680 --> 0:44:21.520 to go to the fluent schools to get a better education. 0:44:21.600 --> 0:44:24.560 You know. Um, these opportunities wasn't provided to me for 0:44:24.680 --> 0:44:26.920 society because I don't think society will ever forgive me 0:44:27.000 --> 0:44:28.760 or give me the opportunity that I feel I deserve. 0:44:28.840 --> 0:44:30.800 So I had to sort of take what I wanted. 0:44:31.160 --> 0:44:33.480 But more importantly, like I said, I think my celsade 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:36.080 was to get my family to understand that the choices 0:44:36.080 --> 0:44:38.160 that I made wasn't because I didn't want to be 0:44:38.200 --> 0:44:41.800 absent in the household. And children, especially young and presentable children, 0:44:42.040 --> 0:44:44.040 they don't sort of understand it. All they understand is 0:44:44.040 --> 0:44:46.640 that you're you wasn't present, You wasn't there, you know. 0:44:46.880 --> 0:44:48.960 So I think I spent every week and moment trying 0:44:48.960 --> 0:44:51.760 to get uh to be forgiven by my media family 0:44:51.719 --> 0:44:54.880 and my children more specifically, you know, and ultimately, UM, 0:44:54.920 --> 0:44:57.120 I think I think it's showing up that way, you know, 0:44:57.200 --> 0:44:59.520 so resumption that's sort of like what it means to me, 0:44:59.719 --> 0:45:03.160 you know, primarily more focused. It's so interesting that in 0:45:03.320 --> 0:45:08.200 both um stories, in both statements, you hold both of 0:45:08.239 --> 0:45:11.560 you hold redemption so close to the heart because there 0:45:11.560 --> 0:45:14.280 are so many people who live every day for the world. 0:45:14.360 --> 0:45:17.160 They live for society, live for what the people gonna say, 0:45:17.239 --> 0:45:19.919 what they the days, and we talk all the time 0:45:19.960 --> 0:45:24.080 about who is they, UM, and to hear you make 0:45:24.120 --> 0:45:27.920 it really personal that redemption is about the people around you, 0:45:27.920 --> 0:45:32.800 your own community, you know, those folks who have poured 0:45:32.880 --> 0:45:36.440 so much into you and your development, and then for 0:45:36.680 --> 0:45:41.080 there to be something that happens that harms those individuals 0:45:41.120 --> 0:45:44.719 that you see redemption as working on that first UM. 0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:47.040 And I think that's something that so many of our 0:45:47.080 --> 0:45:50.399 young men can learn from. And in fact, my son 0:45:50.640 --> 0:45:54.680 is twenty two, UM, and I often have conversations with him, 0:45:54.719 --> 0:45:57.520 looking Royce is his lawyer to let's we won't get 0:45:57.560 --> 0:46:00.680 into why Royce is his lawyer, but he is definitely 0:46:01.920 --> 0:46:05.120 also my son's you know, protector in terms of trying 0:46:05.160 --> 0:46:08.160 to keep his mind straight, Um, And there's been so 0:46:08.200 --> 0:46:11.319 many times that I have told him about carrying our 0:46:11.440 --> 0:46:14.879 last name as a family. You know that the way 0:46:14.920 --> 0:46:17.719 in which he operates in the world, that when he 0:46:17.800 --> 0:46:21.960 shows up, people need to know that a Mallory child. 0:46:22.160 --> 0:46:25.720 Although he shares his father's last name, which is Ryan's, 0:46:25.880 --> 0:46:28.560 but nonetheless people know that he's my child, and he 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:31.759 is the grandson of Stanley and von Still, who are 0:46:31.840 --> 0:46:35.280 stellar leaders in the community, and that rather than trying 0:46:35.280 --> 0:46:37.719 to please the world, you have to first work on 0:46:38.239 --> 0:46:42.000 securing and and helping to Um. You know, really put 0:46:42.080 --> 0:46:45.120 respect on the name that you come from. So I 0:46:45.160 --> 0:46:47.760 think for us, Um, that's a message that young black 0:46:47.800 --> 0:46:50.759 men have to hear constantly from us so that they 0:46:50.840 --> 0:46:53.920 focus more on the inner rather than Instagram and what 0:46:54.000 --> 0:46:58.920 the world is telling them. It's definitely true, man Um. 0:46:58.960 --> 0:47:01.600 Just listening to all of you and the perspectives that 0:47:01.680 --> 0:47:04.560 you have is just enlightening. I just want to know, 0:47:05.760 --> 0:47:07.440 Um Shoka. You know, I know that you do a 0:47:07.440 --> 0:47:09.680 lot of work and we do similar work with mentoring. 0:47:10.280 --> 0:47:12.319 How how do you approach because a lot of people 0:47:12.360 --> 0:47:16.439 approach mentoring different. When you have conversations with young men 0:47:16.520 --> 0:47:20.680 that probably are in similar situations or similar mind states 0:47:20.719 --> 0:47:22.960 that you had when you were young, and you see 0:47:23.000 --> 0:47:25.520 them going down this path, Like, what's the mind state 0:47:25.600 --> 0:47:27.399 that you approach them? How do you deal with that? 0:47:27.840 --> 0:47:29.640 Because we talked as we're talking about to make a 0:47:29.719 --> 0:47:31.640 soun like we need a little strategy to try to 0:47:33.040 --> 0:47:35.799 just like, what what is your strategy? Yeah, you know, 0:47:35.880 --> 0:47:39.719 I think I approach everything from trauma informed care. You know, 0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:42.280 I was an honor roll scholarship student with all the 0:47:42.280 --> 0:47:45.800 potential in the world and a series of traumatic events 0:47:45.800 --> 0:47:48.920 after in my life being abused in the household to 0:47:49.040 --> 0:47:51.759 being shot at a young age. And so when I'm 0:47:51.800 --> 0:47:54.600 working with young people, for one, I learned to listen 0:47:54.640 --> 0:47:58.160 more than I talk. I think our instinct is to 0:47:58.360 --> 0:48:01.160 try to correct and try to I and I've just 0:48:01.200 --> 0:48:04.759 started to listen because typically when you listen, you can 0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:09.319 start to unravel the mystery behind young people, right. Uh. 0:48:09.360 --> 0:48:12.320 And then it's also detached ego. I don't have my 0:48:12.400 --> 0:48:14.600 ego attached to any outcomes. At the end of the day, 0:48:14.600 --> 0:48:17.439 I had to serve a sentence, and so I'm very 0:48:17.480 --> 0:48:20.600 cleativeve you if a young person is intent on making 0:48:20.600 --> 0:48:23.360 poor decisions, like you can't attach your ego to that, 0:48:23.400 --> 0:48:27.120 otherwise you'll drive yourself crazy. And so it's ego list mentoring, 0:48:27.760 --> 0:48:31.160 it's intentional listening, but it's really through the lens of 0:48:31.200 --> 0:48:35.480 trauma informed care, really understanding what has happened to our children, 0:48:35.480 --> 0:48:38.319 what they've been exposed to, where there are points of 0:48:38.360 --> 0:48:41.719 pain are at uh, you know, especially with family. You know, 0:48:41.840 --> 0:48:45.000 I I'm parenting you know, my ten year old um, 0:48:45.320 --> 0:48:48.360 his mom and I haven't been together for seven years. 0:48:48.400 --> 0:48:51.359 So I understanding that that was a fracture early on 0:48:51.840 --> 0:48:54.800 that I had to be intentional about how do I 0:48:55.000 --> 0:48:58.359 co parent in a way that's healing, healthy, and that's 0:48:58.400 --> 0:49:01.319 rooted in the love for him, and thinking about the 0:49:01.400 --> 0:49:03.760 young men that I mentored, a young women. I mentored 0:49:03.760 --> 0:49:06.320 a lot of young ladies as well. It's understanding what 0:49:06.440 --> 0:49:09.759 is what is that trauma story, what is that origin story? Uh, 0:49:09.800 --> 0:49:12.279 and what is their aspirational story? And so a lot 0:49:12.360 --> 0:49:16.280 of times just listening and really hearing where they're coming from, 0:49:16.520 --> 0:49:19.040 but also being willing to be vulnerable and be honest 0:49:19.440 --> 0:49:23.200 and to not glorify past decisions. Like you know, I 0:49:23.280 --> 0:49:25.120 was convicted of second to degree murder when I was 0:49:25.160 --> 0:49:29.480 nineteen years old, and you know, I understand the culture, 0:49:29.520 --> 0:49:33.319 you know, the the whole. You know, how we celebrate 0:49:33.880 --> 0:49:36.640 the psychotic behaviors that exists in our community, you know 0:49:36.640 --> 0:49:39.319 what I'm saying, and how we elevate that right. Um, 0:49:39.360 --> 0:49:40.680 you know, I was put on a pedestal in the 0:49:40.719 --> 0:49:43.640 hood as as a as a shooter. Um. And so 0:49:43.840 --> 0:49:47.719 for me really getting them to understand, there was the 0:49:47.800 --> 0:49:52.719 prison sentence, but then there's the reality of you know, 0:49:53.080 --> 0:49:54.960 this is something I live with every day. You know 0:49:54.960 --> 0:49:58.239 what I'm saying. My brother was murdered last summer, and 0:49:58.280 --> 0:50:00.480 I couldn't properly agree because I'm know I made a 0:50:00.520 --> 0:50:02.760 family feel the way that that that our family was feeling, 0:50:03.360 --> 0:50:07.600 and so trying to unravel you know, that reality for 0:50:07.800 --> 0:50:10.239 them in a way that's honest, that's transparent, is not 0:50:10.320 --> 0:50:13.680 about glorifying, you know, like, yes, I got shot. In 0:50:13.760 --> 0:50:16.280 the story, we hear what'sbody get shot? It's like, oh, 0:50:16.360 --> 0:50:18.080 you know I did this and I had to get back. 0:50:18.400 --> 0:50:20.319 What we don't here is that when I was sitting 0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:23.120 in the hospital bed that I was afraid because I 0:50:23.160 --> 0:50:25.799 was really a kid. You know, seventeen years old, you're 0:50:25.800 --> 0:50:29.319 a kid. But when the stories are retold, oftentimes they're 0:50:29.360 --> 0:50:32.640 glorified as if we are void of emotions, as if 0:50:32.680 --> 0:50:35.480 we're a void of fear, or as if we don't 0:50:35.520 --> 0:50:39.160 experience sadness. And so that listening you started to tune 0:50:39.160 --> 0:50:42.719 in and then language is so important. Um. You know, 0:50:42.920 --> 0:50:45.239 when I talked to the young brothers, I intentionally call 0:50:45.320 --> 0:50:47.759 them brothers. I don't call them you know what up 0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:50.879 my little nigga because that that that word as much 0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:53.759 as we used in our culture, and it's not to 0:50:53.880 --> 0:50:57.200 be you know, it is what it is, but it 0:50:57.320 --> 0:51:04.120 also creates uh a barrier between emotional honesty. And I 0:51:04.160 --> 0:51:06.279 think when when I when I've talked to these young brothers, 0:51:06.280 --> 0:51:08.640 they can't wait to be hugged by a man, like 0:51:08.719 --> 0:51:12.040 a man that stands in the authenticity of his manhood 0:51:12.400 --> 0:51:15.919 with love and an emotional growth and maturity like these 0:51:15.960 --> 0:51:19.120 younger brothers crave that and they're afraid to seek it out. 0:51:19.160 --> 0:51:21.719 So we have to be seeking out how to give 0:51:21.719 --> 0:51:24.239 it to him. But we have to listen. First. Let 0:51:24.320 --> 0:51:28.000 me ask you, Royce, just thinking of you know me 0:51:28.120 --> 0:51:31.319 saying that you have worked with Tarke and I have 0:51:31.440 --> 0:51:34.640 called you many times late night, like can you talk 0:51:34.719 --> 0:51:39.240 to him? You know, can you help to translate things 0:51:39.280 --> 0:51:43.239 that I have not been able to articulate well, um, 0:51:43.480 --> 0:51:45.680 and you know, and also just to help him see 0:51:45.719 --> 0:51:49.319 what the end result of, you know, not not coming 0:51:49.360 --> 0:51:52.720 home on time. Nobody knows where you are these types 0:51:52.760 --> 0:51:56.080 of things like what can happen. I'm assuming that you 0:51:56.160 --> 0:51:59.480 have so many clients that you are, you know, that 0:51:59.560 --> 0:52:04.160 you're defending and working with professionally, that you take you 0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:07.560 have to stop and take time to also mentor and 0:52:07.600 --> 0:52:11.000 try to work them through some of them the mental 0:52:11.200 --> 0:52:14.520 and emotional challenges that they're facing. So tell us what 0:52:14.600 --> 0:52:16.880 that looks like for you and your work and how 0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:20.600 exhausting is it as a black man. Do you feel 0:52:20.600 --> 0:52:23.359 like it's your responsibility to do that with the young 0:52:23.440 --> 0:52:27.600 with you know, people that you are working with your clients? Well, 0:52:27.640 --> 0:52:30.240 first of all, you do a great job with giving 0:52:30.800 --> 0:52:35.279 your son advice. It's just that where he's hearing it from, right, 0:52:35.320 --> 0:52:38.080 It's not the advice in and of itself that is 0:52:38.120 --> 0:52:41.719 not good advice. It's who I'm hearing it from and 0:52:41.719 --> 0:52:43.879 whether or not I want to give credence to that 0:52:44.160 --> 0:52:46.960 because I'm a male and she's a female. Despite what 0:52:47.000 --> 0:52:49.759 you do in the world, right, and then it takes 0:52:49.800 --> 0:52:52.600 a little bit of yeah, I heard that before. I 0:52:52.600 --> 0:52:54.560 remember when my mom said that, you mean like this 0:52:54.640 --> 0:52:56.920 has been going on for generations. Yeah, this has been 0:52:56.920 --> 0:52:59.160 going on for generations, and this is how you're going 0:52:59.239 --> 0:53:01.600 to have to deal with it. And I think once 0:53:02.000 --> 0:53:04.600 those who are younger see someone that is older saying yeah, 0:53:04.600 --> 0:53:08.439 I had that experience and this is how I went 0:53:08.520 --> 0:53:11.840 through that experience, then it shows a different light. But 0:53:11.880 --> 0:53:15.320 I can never be as eloquent to reflect what Shaka 0:53:15.400 --> 0:53:18.720 just said in reference to how you go about being 0:53:18.760 --> 0:53:22.360 this mentor, because what you're speaking to is as an attorney, 0:53:22.600 --> 0:53:26.240 that's exactly what I am. Because most of the people 0:53:26.760 --> 0:53:29.840 that I represent young, old, in between people of color, 0:53:30.920 --> 0:53:33.840 I'm probably maybe the first or second time they've had 0:53:33.960 --> 0:53:38.239 an attorney as an African American. They've had leaguay, they've 0:53:38.280 --> 0:53:42.720 had neighborhood defenders, they had the attorney at their family 0:53:42.719 --> 0:53:45.520 thought was gonna do the right thing, and usually that's 0:53:45.560 --> 0:53:47.759 not a person of color. So then here I come 0:53:47.760 --> 0:53:52.160 walking through the door right intentionally, unintentionally referral you name it, 0:53:52.840 --> 0:53:56.160 and now they're seeing, maybe for the first time, someone 0:53:56.200 --> 0:53:58.719 of color that is talking about the things that they did. 0:53:59.560 --> 0:54:03.279 Then you add on top of that once I get 0:54:03.320 --> 0:54:06.080 to let them know me, because that's what comes first, right, 0:54:06.120 --> 0:54:10.120 They're not gonna, you know, tear down their guard. That 0:54:10.320 --> 0:54:12.680 that the defenses there has always been there. You gotta 0:54:12.719 --> 0:54:15.040 be there every day, twenty four hours, seven days a week. 0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:16.640 It's gonna be there when I get finished talking to 0:54:16.680 --> 0:54:18.680 them they go upstairs. It is then when they come 0:54:18.719 --> 0:54:21.480 down and the elevator to have their legal consultation, it's 0:54:21.480 --> 0:54:23.719 gonna be there. So somebody has a chair down the wall, 0:54:24.000 --> 0:54:26.640 and so as we have in the conversation. Then they realized, oh, 0:54:26.680 --> 0:54:28.560 you grew up in the bronx, but they realized he 0:54:28.680 --> 0:54:31.080 was shot at or you did go to press school. Oh, 0:54:31.120 --> 0:54:33.800 but you're all sat together, all of the five blacks 0:54:33.800 --> 0:54:36.760 that you had in your class out of thirty five 0:54:37.040 --> 0:54:40.160 or sixty white you're sat together. You're eight lunths together. 0:54:40.400 --> 0:54:43.879 It's a different type of incarceration, but all the attributes 0:54:44.360 --> 0:54:49.040 that look quite similar, the congregation, the isolation, the and 0:54:49.160 --> 0:54:53.880 at the age fourteen, when you don't really understand racism 0:54:53.920 --> 0:54:57.120 and you really understand classism and how that works together, 0:54:57.560 --> 0:54:59.440 and somebody comes with you and say the wrong thing, 0:54:59.480 --> 0:55:01.440 and next thing you know they're on the floor and 0:55:01.480 --> 0:55:03.279 they're almost dead because they hit their head on the 0:55:03.320 --> 0:55:08.000 marble table because you did something. And the isolation that 0:55:08.040 --> 0:55:12.560 comes after that when you start to relay those stories 0:55:12.920 --> 0:55:14.839 and you start to talk about people that they may 0:55:14.880 --> 0:55:17.560 have heard of, that you hung out with or that 0:55:17.600 --> 0:55:20.480 you were in in the presence of but just for 0:55:20.520 --> 0:55:23.640 whatever reason you left a little bit earlier, right, you know, 0:55:23.880 --> 0:55:26.960 those things start to resonate. So what I do in 0:55:27.000 --> 0:55:29.080 my practice and what I do every day, whether it's 0:55:29.080 --> 0:55:31.759 mentoring or whether it's advising, is that we're gonna walk 0:55:31.800 --> 0:55:34.759 to walk together. That's just what we gotta do. We're 0:55:34.800 --> 0:55:37.879 gonna walk to walk together. And I'm gonna call you 0:55:38.360 --> 0:55:41.440 on things that it just flat out what are you 0:55:41.480 --> 0:55:43.800 talking about? Like what are you saying? Like what what 0:55:44.080 --> 0:55:46.280 are you really saying? This is what you're saying, because 0:55:46.320 --> 0:55:49.279 now that's not what's really right. And then there's gonna 0:55:49.280 --> 0:55:51.000 be some things, and it's gonna be a lot of 0:55:51.040 --> 0:55:54.080 things that as we talk about trauma, like I never 0:55:54.080 --> 0:55:57.920 really saw it that way because I don't see myself 0:55:57.960 --> 0:56:01.440 being traumatized, right, but I us right to a certain degree, 0:56:01.480 --> 0:56:04.280 and I don't blame anybody for it. You got seven 0:56:04.280 --> 0:56:08.319 people in a three bedroom apartment, one bathroom, and when 0:56:08.360 --> 0:56:11.560 you can study is in the bathroom. You can't study 0:56:11.600 --> 0:56:15.400 anywhere else. TVs Two loud music too on, you can't stay. 0:56:15.480 --> 0:56:19.320 You would confine in that bathroom. That's probably five five five. 0:56:20.000 --> 0:56:23.080 And if someone goes to the bathroom and does something, 0:56:23.120 --> 0:56:25.279 you can't go back into the bathroom and study. You're 0:56:25.280 --> 0:56:28.760 sitting on the edge of a tub, reading on a hamper. 0:56:29.560 --> 0:56:31.880 It sounds pretty isolation to me. It sounds like you 0:56:32.000 --> 0:56:35.759 isolated to me, different once again, never the same, but 0:56:36.080 --> 0:56:39.560 kind of the the but and then and then, and 0:56:39.600 --> 0:56:43.360 then you're sitting inside of an apartment that is located 0:56:43.400 --> 0:56:46.400 inside of a housing projects where everything is going on, 0:56:46.480 --> 0:56:49.560 and there's trauma that exists just from being in proximity 0:56:49.719 --> 0:56:52.759 to our communities, and you know what's had no matter 0:56:52.840 --> 0:56:55.080 what you're doing. I was a kid who grew up 0:56:55.080 --> 0:56:59.200 in a household that was very different from my neighbors. Right, 0:56:59.239 --> 0:57:02.640 we didn't have um, it wasn't well, you know, and 0:57:02.640 --> 0:57:04.640 and that's relative. I was gonna say, we didn't have 0:57:04.960 --> 0:57:08.080 drug addicts like in in our home, like my parents 0:57:08.080 --> 0:57:10.880 weren't drug addicts. But the truth is Uncle Jimmy, who 0:57:10.960 --> 0:57:14.720 came every Sunday, was a crack addict and they had aids. 0:57:15.040 --> 0:57:17.480 He had to sit in one space in the house 0:57:17.600 --> 0:57:19.960 where he was he had He was also homeless. He 0:57:20.040 --> 0:57:22.560 was bleeding my mother, you know, but she was still 0:57:22.600 --> 0:57:25.280 gonna let him in. So he was being taken care of. 0:57:25.440 --> 0:57:28.280 My brother was in and out of the system. Shot 0:57:28.360 --> 0:57:31.439 this one, This happened, that happened. He's in jail, back 0:57:31.480 --> 0:57:34.120 and forth. And while they were my parents, my father 0:57:34.200 --> 0:57:36.960 was a correction officer, my mother was working for taxi 0:57:36.960 --> 0:57:39.480 and limousine commissioned. They were good people. We were the 0:57:39.520 --> 0:57:42.560 best of the best in the building. But we still 0:57:42.600 --> 0:57:48.560 lived in Manhattanville projects. So the trauma is still there. Yeah, yeah, 0:57:48.640 --> 0:57:51.040 and then so and so then when you leave that restroom, 0:57:51.120 --> 0:57:55.320 that bathroom, everybody is talking about how they want you 0:57:55.320 --> 0:57:57.880 to be a success, but nobody is giving you the 0:57:57.960 --> 0:58:00.960 means to be successful. You're old in my way, like 0:58:00.960 --> 0:58:04.200 like wait, so you translate that to people that you 0:58:04.320 --> 0:58:06.960 come across, at least in my practice, right, and we 0:58:07.120 --> 0:58:08.920 you know, we kind of focus on the young folks, 0:58:09.240 --> 0:58:13.200 but really I'm talking to men at fifty six, thirty five, 0:58:13.280 --> 0:58:16.360 thirty four and and no matter what the decade is. 0:58:16.680 --> 0:58:19.560 They're like, yeah, that happened, and and you know, sixty 0:58:19.560 --> 0:58:21.840 five and like you're still doing this at sixty five, 0:58:22.480 --> 0:58:25.360 And I'm amazed sometime at myself and shockuld probably can 0:58:25.360 --> 0:58:26.920 speak this and that stually be coming to speak to 0:58:27.160 --> 0:58:29.720 how I'm speaking to some people in some type of 0:58:29.720 --> 0:58:31.880 way that I know if they wanted to do something 0:58:32.880 --> 0:58:34.880 in a minute, it could be over, you know what 0:58:34.880 --> 0:58:36.880 I mean, Like like if they really wanted to do something, 0:58:36.880 --> 0:58:38.400 they really want to like you know what you're talking 0:58:38.440 --> 0:58:40.280 to me some type of way. I know where your 0:58:40.320 --> 0:58:43.960 office is. This can be a situation. The reason why 0:58:44.000 --> 0:58:47.919 you can do that is because your authenticity, your sincerity, 0:58:48.240 --> 0:58:51.440 your culturalism. They even though they don't know what to 0:58:51.520 --> 0:58:53.920 call it, they see it as a mentorship, you know, 0:58:54.000 --> 0:58:55.960 even though they don't know what to say it, they 0:58:56.040 --> 0:58:57.760 see it as love, even though they don't know what 0:58:57.840 --> 0:59:01.360 to say. You you there people, and you never have 0:59:01.400 --> 0:59:03.920 to worry about anybody following any appeal. You ain't got 0:59:04.040 --> 0:59:06.000 worried about the way said you sold me down the river. 0:59:06.400 --> 0:59:09.880 It's because of that relationship, you know. I was just 0:59:09.880 --> 0:59:12.560 sitting here just thinking about all the traumas that we 0:59:12.600 --> 0:59:15.480 deal with, right, and just listening to it and knowing 0:59:15.520 --> 0:59:18.920 a little bit of everybody's story here, you know, um, 0:59:18.960 --> 0:59:21.200 just thinking I was thinking about this. It's kind of 0:59:21.240 --> 0:59:23.360 a deep question. And I don't know if you ever 0:59:24.040 --> 0:59:28.160 thought about it, but Shaka, have you ever liked, um 0:59:28.200 --> 0:59:31.000 the family members of the person whose life you've taken? 0:59:31.040 --> 0:59:34.960 Have you ever had any conversation with them, had some 0:59:35.800 --> 0:59:39.760 like express some level or sorry or or was that 0:59:39.840 --> 0:59:41.760 ever something that you wanted to do? Was it an 0:59:41.800 --> 0:59:46.960 opportunity did that ever happen some type of reconciliation. Yeah, 0:59:47.040 --> 0:59:49.400 that's that's a great question, my son. I think it's 0:59:49.520 --> 0:59:51.439 you know, it really speaks to what I was talking 0:59:51.440 --> 0:59:53.760 about earlier, how you carry this for the rest of 0:59:53.800 --> 0:59:56.680 your life. So, about five or six years and my 0:59:56.800 --> 1:00:01.120 prison sentence, I got this letter from a woman am Nancy. 1:00:01.360 --> 1:00:03.960 And initially, I mean, you know, for those of us 1:00:04.000 --> 1:00:07.120 who being in prison, you know how pen pals randomly, right, 1:00:07.280 --> 1:00:09.400 is you know, your your mom's friend from the church, 1:00:09.520 --> 1:00:12.000 or aunt's friend or neighbors. So I didn't know who 1:00:12.000 --> 1:00:15.240 this woman was, and I remember opening the letter and 1:00:15.280 --> 1:00:18.480 I started to read it, and what she said to 1:00:18.520 --> 1:00:21.640 me was I want to tell you a story about David, 1:00:21.880 --> 1:00:25.160 the man who's life irresponsible for taking. This is who 1:00:25.200 --> 1:00:27.360 he is as a father, This is who he is 1:00:27.400 --> 1:00:29.840 as a son, this is who he is as a friend. 1:00:30.440 --> 1:00:32.480 And so she tells me this story. She raised him 1:00:32.480 --> 1:00:35.280 as his guy moother and I remember wanting to bawl 1:00:35.360 --> 1:00:38.000 that letter up, like I was so shaken, like I 1:00:38.000 --> 1:00:39.520 didn't even know what to do at the time, I 1:00:39.560 --> 1:00:42.600 was probably about twenty two or twenty three, but I 1:00:42.680 --> 1:00:44.560 kept reading that letter, and in that letter she said, 1:00:44.680 --> 1:00:47.000 you know, despite these things, I forgive you because that's 1:00:47.040 --> 1:00:49.360 what God would want me to do. And her and 1:00:49.360 --> 1:00:52.680 I started corresponding, and I remember she would ask me, 1:00:52.760 --> 1:00:55.200 like what happened that night? And I would give her 1:00:55.240 --> 1:00:59.200 the very just practical things, you know, but she was like, 1:00:59.240 --> 1:01:01.640 what happened to you? Like what happened to you at 1:01:01.720 --> 1:01:04.640 nineteen years old? That made you take a man's life? 1:01:04.640 --> 1:01:07.480 I can tell from your letters that you're very intelligent, 1:01:07.600 --> 1:01:10.560 very insightful. And so we went on this journey where 1:01:10.640 --> 1:01:13.720 I was avoiding for a long time, even telling her 1:01:13.840 --> 1:01:16.960 all the elements of what happened was a drug transaction 1:01:17.440 --> 1:01:19.439 that went wrong that he shouldn't have been part of. 1:01:19.480 --> 1:01:21.560 Somebody else brought them. So I avoided all that for 1:01:21.560 --> 1:01:24.360 for a while, and eventually we got to that truth. 1:01:25.280 --> 1:01:29.280 Fast forward, I get out of prison myself originally self published, 1:01:29.280 --> 1:01:30.760 but a lot of people don't know I originally self 1:01:30.760 --> 1:01:33.240 published Righting My Wrongs. I hustled that book out of 1:01:33.240 --> 1:01:37.080 the trunk two thousand thirteen. That book that I hustled 1:01:37.120 --> 1:01:40.160 out the Trump eventually reached Oprah wants to reach Oprah. 1:01:40.200 --> 1:01:42.600 I was able to, you know, problay that into a 1:01:42.680 --> 1:01:46.960 mainstream deal. Right when I went mainstream, I go on 1:01:47.000 --> 1:01:49.240 the local news station just to you know, public the book, 1:01:49.280 --> 1:01:51.640 all the stuff we do. I get an email from 1:01:51.720 --> 1:01:55.240 the you know, the journalists and she said, David's wife 1:01:55.240 --> 1:01:57.920 reached out to you and she wants to connect. And 1:01:58.000 --> 1:02:00.600 so she sent her email and said, he's serious about 1:02:00.640 --> 1:02:03.520 his redemption, he will call me. I was in the 1:02:03.520 --> 1:02:06.800 middle of a program the rapper Big Sean. He's from 1:02:06.840 --> 1:02:10.360 Detroit and he does this mentoring program. I was a speaker. 1:02:10.400 --> 1:02:14.200 I had to stop step out call David's white caller 1:02:15.160 --> 1:02:17.360 and we you know, this call and she was like, 1:02:17.400 --> 1:02:19.840 I'm so proud of the men you'd be bought into 1:02:20.400 --> 1:02:22.080 and you know, I've really been wanting to speak to 1:02:22.200 --> 1:02:23.760 you for a while. Now. What a lot of people 1:02:23.760 --> 1:02:26.840 don't understand is when you're incarcerated for an a sort 1:02:26.880 --> 1:02:29.400 of crime, you can't reach out to the family. You 1:02:29.440 --> 1:02:33.080 can't reach out to anybody that you victimize unless they 1:02:33.080 --> 1:02:35.880 reach out to you first. And so I have been 1:02:35.960 --> 1:02:39.760 wanting to have that conversation with, you know, specifically his wife. 1:02:40.400 --> 1:02:42.480 And so we ended up having this conversation and we 1:02:42.560 --> 1:02:45.880 talked and you know, we explained some text um and 1:02:45.920 --> 1:02:48.880 then sadly and unfortunately, they decided to sue me once 1:02:48.920 --> 1:02:53.640 they saw all the Oprah thing right. And now, I 1:02:53.800 --> 1:02:55.720 and I'll tell you this. You know, at the at 1:02:55.760 --> 1:03:01.200 the most human level, I understood their anger here and 1:03:01.200 --> 1:03:04.560 I understood their frustration, but I also understood that they 1:03:04.600 --> 1:03:08.440 were wrong and their efforts to extract money for me 1:03:08.560 --> 1:03:14.240 sharing my life story. Um. But because of the empathy 1:03:14.280 --> 1:03:17.240 and the understand I have for their family, I didn't 1:03:17.240 --> 1:03:19.960 show up with any anger, you know what I'm saying. 1:03:19.960 --> 1:03:22.160 I showed up. I showed up with empathy and compassion, 1:03:22.160 --> 1:03:26.600 and all exchanges befin between our lawyers were compassionate and 1:03:26.680 --> 1:03:30.480 you know, empathetic, and so what I realized in that 1:03:30.560 --> 1:03:33.919 moment is that they were in the midst of a deep, 1:03:34.000 --> 1:03:37.720 deep hurt and deep sorrow um as many families are 1:03:37.720 --> 1:03:42.320 who has lost the loved one, and that pain manifested 1:03:42.800 --> 1:03:45.560 with outsiders telling them this is how they should get justice, 1:03:45.880 --> 1:03:48.240 even though I had already served my time and did 1:03:48.280 --> 1:03:50.160 all the things that I needed to do to to 1:03:50.160 --> 1:03:53.360 to deal with the legal part. And so what I 1:03:53.440 --> 1:03:56.240 what I would say my son is that you know, 1:03:56.320 --> 1:03:58.720 these things that we find, these moments that we found 1:03:58.800 --> 1:04:01.440 ourselves in. You know, that was a thirty second decision 1:04:02.040 --> 1:04:04.880 that ended the life and it completely changed my life 1:04:04.880 --> 1:04:07.080 for the rest of my life. Uh. You know, my 1:04:07.360 --> 1:04:11.280 young son has had to deal with the fallout from 1:04:11.360 --> 1:04:14.800 you know, my experience. You know, going to school and 1:04:15.360 --> 1:04:17.720 you know a kid can say, hey, your dad's a murderer. 1:04:18.160 --> 1:04:20.880 You know. Um, you know, there's a business, there's people 1:04:20.920 --> 1:04:23.720 I've dealt with, there were job opportunities, and so everything 1:04:23.720 --> 1:04:25.320 that I've been able to do, I had to kind 1:04:25.320 --> 1:04:29.760 of created very grassroots, very you know, guerrilla style, you 1:04:29.760 --> 1:04:32.280 know what I'm saying. Hustle, hustle until you break through, 1:04:32.320 --> 1:04:35.120 and once you break through, it's no going back, but 1:04:35.400 --> 1:04:38.240 it endures you know, and so for me, I think 1:04:38.240 --> 1:04:41.440 it's important, uh for us to atone when we can 1:04:41.520 --> 1:04:44.520 and where we can. It may not always be directly 1:04:44.560 --> 1:04:47.440 to the people that you've hearned, but there's other people 1:04:47.440 --> 1:04:50.280 in proximity. Like I've worked with mothers and murdered children 1:04:50.840 --> 1:04:52.680 back when I was in Detroit, and I was able 1:04:52.720 --> 1:04:56.600 to sit as a proxy for, you know, the men 1:04:56.720 --> 1:04:59.840 who had killed these mothers kids, And I was able 1:04:59.840 --> 1:05:02.760 to sitting and allow these sisters to say, I don't 1:05:02.800 --> 1:05:05.640 like you, I hate you, I'm hurt by you, I'm 1:05:05.720 --> 1:05:09.080 devastated by you. And I was also able to apologize 1:05:09.120 --> 1:05:12.760 on behalf of those men and facilitate healing. And like 1:05:12.840 --> 1:05:15.200 that's the work that is a lot of that's behind 1:05:15.240 --> 1:05:18.400 the scenes, but restore the practices are popping up all 1:05:18.400 --> 1:05:20.520 over and I think it's one of the lynch pins 1:05:20.560 --> 1:05:23.040 to actually hit in our community because as we know, 1:05:23.240 --> 1:05:26.919 violence is clickical. You kill my brother, I kill your brother, 1:05:27.000 --> 1:05:30.400 you know, and I just you know, spared the whole family. 1:05:30.440 --> 1:05:32.880 When my brother was murdered. I went home, you know, 1:05:32.880 --> 1:05:34.919 I'm I'm in a d I'm fishing in the street. 1:05:35.000 --> 1:05:38.440 The brothers they loved me. My brother got killed the 1:05:38.480 --> 1:05:41.200 whole block was there, and they're like, we know where 1:05:41.240 --> 1:05:43.360 his mom at, we know where his brothers at. Right now, 1:05:43.760 --> 1:05:45.400 we're about to go around. And I was like, no, 1:05:45.480 --> 1:05:47.560 we're not. That's not what's happening here. You know what 1:05:47.560 --> 1:05:49.800 I'm saying, because sometimes some of us, sometimes we have 1:05:49.920 --> 1:05:52.080 to step up and say, you know what, it got 1:05:52.200 --> 1:05:55.560 to end here. You know, my family is hurting. You know, 1:05:55.640 --> 1:05:58.040 this is our baby brother. He wasn't in the streets, 1:05:58.080 --> 1:06:02.760 he wasn't doing anything wrong. And all of us, most 1:06:02.800 --> 1:06:04.480 of my brothers, were all from the streets. So it's 1:06:04.520 --> 1:06:08.760 easy to justify that kind of reaction, but the responsible 1:06:08.960 --> 1:06:12.200 and healing thing to do is to disrupt that. Uh. 1:06:12.240 --> 1:06:14.480 And so we were. I was fortunate that you know, 1:06:14.840 --> 1:06:17.240 I'm I'm I'm the o G, I'm o G enough 1:06:17.280 --> 1:06:20.240 for them to actually listen. Um. But that's all. That's 1:06:20.240 --> 1:06:23.120 part of the restore the practices. What's your brother's name, 1:06:24.360 --> 1:06:29.560 Sharad name Sharad Red. And I was fortunate before the 1:06:29.600 --> 1:06:32.400 book came the new book came out to be able 1:06:32.440 --> 1:06:35.640 to you know, dedicate this book to him and other 1:06:35.720 --> 1:06:38.080 young brothers and sisters and families who have lost the 1:06:38.120 --> 1:06:42.200 loved one and you know, it's uh, it's hard though, 1:06:42.200 --> 1:06:43.720 you know, because it's like it ain't even been a 1:06:43.720 --> 1:06:48.560 full year, you know, but you know, it's it's the 1:06:48.640 --> 1:06:51.080 nature of our community that we got to talk more about, 1:06:51.480 --> 1:06:54.440 you know, this reckless gun violence. And you know, his 1:06:54.520 --> 1:06:58.120 circumstances was different, like I was in the streets, street stuff. 1:06:58.160 --> 1:07:00.600 You know, there there's you know, under standing in that 1:07:00.640 --> 1:07:03.840 world of these are the potential outcomes. Um, So when 1:07:03.880 --> 1:07:07.480 it happens differently, it hurts differently. But you know, I 1:07:07.600 --> 1:07:10.240 just look at these moments man as opportunities to further 1:07:10.720 --> 1:07:14.840 hill our community and really advise um. You know, young 1:07:14.880 --> 1:07:17.120 people were like how to think about these things differently? 1:07:17.360 --> 1:07:20.120 That's right, So we got we gotta wrap this up. 1:07:20.160 --> 1:07:22.400 But I really want to ask Kevin question just based 1:07:22.400 --> 1:07:25.200 on this what you said, right and knowing some of 1:07:25.240 --> 1:07:29.560 the Kevin's story. keV. You know, I've read or I 1:07:29.560 --> 1:07:31.840 think I've seen an interview where you were talking about 1:07:31.840 --> 1:07:36.200 how your mother was killed and and I just just 1:07:36.360 --> 1:07:39.520 was listening to it and just just trying to process it. 1:07:39.960 --> 1:07:42.840 And I believe it was just based on someone trying 1:07:42.840 --> 1:07:46.080 to get do something to you or trying to extort 1:07:46.120 --> 1:07:49.439 you as something or some get back. Did you when 1:07:49.480 --> 1:07:53.000 when that happened, did you blame yourself? Do you still 1:07:53.040 --> 1:07:56.120 blame yourself for the situation? How did you come to 1:07:56.320 --> 1:08:02.760 terms with that whole situation? Well, clarity, it actually didn't 1:08:02.800 --> 1:08:07.240 have anything to do with me. It was actually brought 1:08:07.240 --> 1:08:09.520 to my daughter step a very good friend of mine 1:08:09.520 --> 1:08:11.360 at the time his girlfriend who at the time was 1:08:11.400 --> 1:08:14.680 maybe eighteen years old, and she had got kidnapped. And 1:08:14.720 --> 1:08:17.360 it just so happens that the kidnapping happened in the Bronx, 1:08:18.280 --> 1:08:21.040 probably minutes from where my mother lives. You know, my 1:08:21.120 --> 1:08:26.840 mother lived in the Forham Hill section uh University, you know, 1:08:26.840 --> 1:08:28.960 in that vicinity, And this happened like in a section 1:08:28.960 --> 1:08:31.200 like in like the Fordham Hill section of the Bronx, 1:08:31.280 --> 1:08:34.880 which this young lady was visiting a girlfriend of hers, 1:08:35.479 --> 1:08:38.080 and then when she left the apartment, they abducted her. 1:08:38.960 --> 1:08:41.920 And they had asked her for money, and me and her, 1:08:42.120 --> 1:08:45.320 me and her boyfriend, you know, we were like intertwined 1:08:45.520 --> 1:08:50.400 and and and and and our illegal dealings. So um, 1:08:50.439 --> 1:08:52.880 I guess when they had when they had her, they 1:08:52.960 --> 1:08:55.679 had asked her to to take them to my house 1:08:55.720 --> 1:08:57.679 to get some money of some kind of way. My 1:08:57.680 --> 1:08:59.759 my name came up in a conversation. In any event, 1:09:00.400 --> 1:09:05.080 she brought them to my mother's house and they manipulated 1:09:05.320 --> 1:09:07.600 themselves to get into the apartment, maybe saying something that 1:09:07.640 --> 1:09:09.600 happened with me. My mother knew who this young lady was, 1:09:09.640 --> 1:09:12.680 but she wasn't She wasn't, you know, directly associated with her, 1:09:12.720 --> 1:09:14.320 But she happened to know who this young lady was. 1:09:14.800 --> 1:09:16.559 So some kind of way they gained access to the 1:09:16.560 --> 1:09:19.040 apartment in search of money and drugs and those kind 1:09:19.080 --> 1:09:22.479 of things, which none of that was was there um. 1:09:22.520 --> 1:09:26.719 But to answer your question indirectly or directly, it still 1:09:26.760 --> 1:09:28.920 was because of the life choices that I had made. 1:09:29.080 --> 1:09:31.880 Of course, you know, had I I chose that as 1:09:31.920 --> 1:09:34.920 a as an occupation, then it would never ended up 1:09:35.200 --> 1:09:38.640 my mother's daughter. So to answer your question frankly, you know, 1:09:38.680 --> 1:09:40.200 it's not a day that went by, and that's been 1:09:40.200 --> 1:09:42.880 over thirty years that that that I've been able to 1:09:42.880 --> 1:09:46.040 forgive myself. And that's one of the reasons why I 1:09:46.080 --> 1:09:48.080 go so hard for my family, you know, to to 1:09:48.080 --> 1:09:50.760 to to to make it make sense, because you know, 1:09:51.000 --> 1:09:53.920 especially around holidays and and and certain things. Even with 1:09:53.960 --> 1:09:56.639 the the birth of my grandkids, and my grandfather now 1:09:56.960 --> 1:09:58.600 to know that she wasn't here to see that, you 1:09:58.600 --> 1:10:00.000 know what I mean. And I did all of these 1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:02.160 things for that reason. I mean, I actually got into 1:10:02.439 --> 1:10:04.960 the drug game because of the poverty that we was in, 1:10:05.040 --> 1:10:06.519 and I was trying to pick up some of the 1:10:06.560 --> 1:10:08.360 slack around the household, you know, to make to take 1:10:08.400 --> 1:10:09.840 the burden off of her and make the load a 1:10:09.880 --> 1:10:14.120 lot lighter, you know. So ironically that's been in results. 1:10:14.200 --> 1:10:16.760 I felt like my efforts was in vain because that 1:10:16.880 --> 1:10:21.839 was really what motivated me in the first place. So, um, 1:10:21.880 --> 1:10:25.320 I feel responsible for you know what I'm saying. And 1:10:25.360 --> 1:10:27.320 that's not something you wake up and you can never shake, 1:10:27.479 --> 1:10:29.760 you know, you can you can never you can never 1:10:29.880 --> 1:10:32.760 rid yourself of that guilt. And I walk around with 1:10:32.840 --> 1:10:34.960 it all the time, you know what I'm saying. But again, 1:10:35.040 --> 1:10:37.679 I'm to do so much to the right to offset 1:10:37.720 --> 1:10:40.519 what went to the left, you know, in every waking moment, 1:10:40.680 --> 1:10:43.639 trying to um, just you know, make it all makes 1:10:43.640 --> 1:10:46.479 sense when it's said and done, you know what I'm saying. Well, yeah, 1:10:46.520 --> 1:10:49.240 I feel that regular responsible for and it's not nothing 1:10:49.240 --> 1:10:53.200 I've ever been able to, like side step. What's the 1:10:53.200 --> 1:10:56.080 therapeutic process. First of all, thank you, thank you to 1:10:56.160 --> 1:10:59.320 the three of you for being so vulnerable. UM. This 1:10:59.400 --> 1:11:03.240 is probably one of the most moving shows that we've done. 1:11:04.080 --> 1:11:08.240 The first one, UM, for me was watching the experience 1:11:08.320 --> 1:11:12.080 between my son and Hill Harper, where they both became 1:11:12.160 --> 1:11:15.080 teary eyed on the show talking about some of the 1:11:15.160 --> 1:11:19.280 same issues, the trauma that black men specifically faced. UM. 1:11:19.360 --> 1:11:22.360 And that show for me was probably the first, you know, 1:11:22.439 --> 1:11:24.599 the one that moved me the most, but this would 1:11:24.640 --> 1:11:28.559 certainly be the second. Just listening to you all talk 1:11:28.640 --> 1:11:32.000 about your lives and talk about your story. My son's 1:11:32.040 --> 1:11:36.400 father was murdered. UM. Now it's been twenty years twenty 1:11:36.439 --> 1:11:38.680 years ago. He was shot twice and left in a 1:11:38.760 --> 1:11:42.720 ditch for two weeks before his body was discovered, completely 1:11:42.800 --> 1:11:47.120 decomposed obviously by the time he was found, UM, and 1:11:47.280 --> 1:11:48.960 you know, we were never able to give him a 1:11:49.000 --> 1:11:53.200 proper burial. And I had for a long time believe 1:11:53.720 --> 1:11:57.519 that just because my son had me, you know, my mom, 1:11:57.640 --> 1:12:00.640 my dad, my sister and so many people are round, 1:12:00.680 --> 1:12:02.720 that he didn't have all of this trauma when he 1:12:02.800 --> 1:12:04.880 you know, I would think I was always thinking, well, 1:12:05.120 --> 1:12:07.639 you've been well taken care of you didn't want for anything. 1:12:07.920 --> 1:12:11.200 But it took my son and other men around me 1:12:11.280 --> 1:12:14.200 to say that that experience, even though he was only two, 1:12:14.479 --> 1:12:17.760 he's still dealing with the trauma of his father being 1:12:17.840 --> 1:12:20.760 murdered and the way that he was murdered. And um, 1:12:21.240 --> 1:12:24.479 you know, I realized that black men have a real story. 1:12:24.760 --> 1:12:27.680 And so again, thank you so much for for telling it. 1:12:27.760 --> 1:12:29.600 And then and the last thing I think as we 1:12:29.720 --> 1:12:35.200 close out is what is the therapeutic process? Because Kevin, 1:12:35.680 --> 1:12:37.880 I'm not sure whether you're in therapy, but I know 1:12:38.000 --> 1:12:41.919 that what you just said requires it, right, um Shaka, 1:12:42.080 --> 1:12:45.520 I think I'm pretty sure you have had some therapeutic experience, 1:12:45.760 --> 1:12:48.599 and even Royce, while you know, while yes, you are 1:12:48.640 --> 1:12:52.120 helping other people, but it there's definitely a need to 1:12:52.320 --> 1:12:56.040 work through what you see black men who look like 1:12:56.160 --> 1:12:59.000 you going through every day because sometimes I think there 1:12:59.040 --> 1:13:02.240 can be a little bit of survivor's remorse for those 1:13:02.280 --> 1:13:05.640 of us who have made it. So to speak. Um, so, 1:13:05.760 --> 1:13:09.360 are you all, as anybody you know here, receiving therapy 1:13:09.520 --> 1:13:11.640 or is this something you're looking to do? Can we 1:13:11.720 --> 1:13:13.720 you know, whoever wants to take that question can just 1:13:13.800 --> 1:13:16.759 jump in. Well, I want to answer that. I'll answer 1:13:16.840 --> 1:13:21.400 that first. Um, I love therapists. I mean, like I 1:13:21.439 --> 1:13:24.719 can't even imagine life without it. And for a couple 1:13:24.720 --> 1:13:28.320 of reasons that you mentioned. One, I know I'm jaded, 1:13:28.640 --> 1:13:31.960 Like like, I know I'm jaded. I was. I was 1:13:32.080 --> 1:13:37.880 fortunate enough to go to a prep school where you know, 1:13:38.000 --> 1:13:40.920 I'm less than one percent, didn't me. I knew why 1:13:40.960 --> 1:13:43.360 I was there. I was there to play basketball, didn't 1:13:43.439 --> 1:13:47.200 understand racism, didn't I understood classes because I was still 1:13:47.240 --> 1:13:50.200 on food stamps and stuff. For that nature family was 1:13:50.240 --> 1:13:52.280 able to work through it, struggling with what you want 1:13:52.320 --> 1:13:54.719 me to be a success, but it shore don't seem 1:13:54.800 --> 1:13:57.080 like it, you know what I mean, and going to 1:13:57.120 --> 1:13:59.960 school and being stressed out with like don't worry about tuition, 1:14:00.000 --> 1:14:03.320 don't worry about this, your study. So and I love 1:14:03.400 --> 1:14:05.719 my family for that, I mean like that was nothing 1:14:05.720 --> 1:14:07.519 wrong with that. That was the situation we were in. 1:14:08.400 --> 1:14:12.800 But who does that make you? Right? Who does that 1:14:12.840 --> 1:14:14.800 make you when you look in the mirror and you're like, yo, look, 1:14:14.880 --> 1:14:18.559 I can't count on nobody but me, and people are 1:14:18.600 --> 1:14:21.200 reaching out, but you're like, nah, I ain't gonna take 1:14:21.240 --> 1:14:24.000 that because I know it's gonna be disappointment at it. 1:14:24.080 --> 1:14:26.000 You don't know it's gonna be there. You don't see 1:14:26.040 --> 1:14:27.559 it as disappointment, but you're like, you know what, I'm 1:14:27.600 --> 1:14:30.200 gonna do my own thing. I got it. It's something 1:14:30.240 --> 1:14:33.200 not right about that when you're only cheer leader is you, 1:14:34.080 --> 1:14:37.200 and you can't let anybody be a cheerleader for you, 1:14:37.200 --> 1:14:39.439 you know what I mean, You can't let any or 1:14:39.800 --> 1:14:42.160 your whole life you're looking for a partner to be 1:14:42.200 --> 1:14:46.080 a cheer leader for you or because people will you know, 1:14:46.280 --> 1:14:49.639 people may not see what you see. And so yeah, 1:14:50.120 --> 1:14:53.000 I got I gotta get on that phone called Dr 1:14:53.080 --> 1:14:57.960 Gray up. Let's have this conversation. It goes professional, it 1:14:58.000 --> 1:15:02.960 goes personal, it goes perspective. Right, how much success is success? 1:15:03.000 --> 1:15:06.000 Can you like bow down? Now? You know? Is it 1:15:06.040 --> 1:15:08.120 the right thing to try to becoming? Just how limited 1:15:08.240 --> 1:15:09.960 is that? Is a lot of things that go on 1:15:10.120 --> 1:15:13.920 with carrying a torch of trying to make sure that 1:15:14.040 --> 1:15:18.639 culturally and legally we all right because it's not. Once again, 1:15:18.680 --> 1:15:21.160 it's not a lot of us doing it. You know, 1:15:21.240 --> 1:15:23.320 New York City is a big place, but you could 1:15:23.360 --> 1:15:26.160 probably ten ten lawyers. You could probably think of that 1:15:26.280 --> 1:15:29.000 practice in this area, whether it's civil rights, a criminal 1:15:29.040 --> 1:15:37.040 defenses of color that give a damn anyone else. Yeah, 1:15:36.880 --> 1:15:41.400 I could identify what everything that Royce just said. Uh. 1:15:41.400 --> 1:15:43.880 And I'm very thankful for you being an attorney, my 1:15:43.960 --> 1:15:46.400 attorney who actually saved my life as a black attorney 1:15:46.439 --> 1:15:49.040 as well. His name is Mr Anthony Rico. Oh, yes, 1:15:49.120 --> 1:15:51.679 I love him, love him. It wasn't just an attorney. 1:15:51.720 --> 1:15:53.720 I learned a lot of life lessons with him, you know. 1:15:53.840 --> 1:15:56.920 And I had a lot of Italian high profile lawyers, 1:15:56.960 --> 1:16:00.880 Jewish lawyers that came to me that um I thought 1:16:01.920 --> 1:16:04.920 aesthetically probably fit the bill better than he did. But 1:16:04.960 --> 1:16:07.479 it was something that he said when we spoke that 1:16:07.920 --> 1:16:10.920 I knew he was. It was relatable and I identified 1:16:11.000 --> 1:16:13.640 with him, you know. So, um and I chose him 1:16:13.680 --> 1:16:16.080 for a lawyer, and my life has ever been different 1:16:16.080 --> 1:16:18.280 because he shared some life lessons with me that to 1:16:18.320 --> 1:16:20.720 this day I lived by. So I identified relate to 1:16:20.760 --> 1:16:22.360 everything that you're saying. And like you said, it's just 1:16:22.400 --> 1:16:24.559 not enough for you guys in this field, because it 1:16:24.560 --> 1:16:26.760 would change the lives of a lot of us. But 1:16:26.880 --> 1:16:31.639 to get back to the point of um therapy and 1:16:31.640 --> 1:16:35.920 and and and that, um My whole family looks towards 1:16:35.920 --> 1:16:37.880 me to make the right choices and decisions, you know, 1:16:37.960 --> 1:16:41.000 and to propel my family from poverty into the middle 1:16:41.040 --> 1:16:46.600 class and toto ultimately um generational wealth. Like you know, 1:16:46.720 --> 1:16:48.200 and like I said, I've been on a mission since 1:16:48.240 --> 1:16:53.479 I've came home, and I single handedly have moved them 1:16:53.600 --> 1:16:55.680 and put them in a position that you know, I 1:16:55.800 --> 1:16:58.720 know that if I wasn't um doing what I was doing, 1:16:58.720 --> 1:17:00.960 I don't know what that would look like. Um So, 1:17:01.800 --> 1:17:05.680 with my accomplishments and my success as I think what 1:17:05.840 --> 1:17:08.639 soothes my soul and and and keeps me a little 1:17:08.640 --> 1:17:11.840 bit at peace. But I'm sure that I could probably sit, 1:17:12.439 --> 1:17:15.920 you know, and unpack some of this trauma that that 1:17:15.960 --> 1:17:17.479 I've dealt with my whole life, because I know I'm 1:17:17.560 --> 1:17:21.360 very desensitized to a lot of things that I've just 1:17:21.439 --> 1:17:24.280 made comment like, you know, it's a commonality. I've just 1:17:24.439 --> 1:17:27.360 I've normalized it, you know, to get by, you know, 1:17:27.479 --> 1:17:29.640 because even when I wrote the book was very therapeutic. 1:17:29.680 --> 1:17:31.240 You know, there's a lot of things that I reflected 1:17:31.280 --> 1:17:32.840 on and I was like, I don't even really believe 1:17:32.880 --> 1:17:34.400 that I endored that I went through that or I 1:17:34.439 --> 1:17:36.519 even was a part of that because it was such 1:17:36.520 --> 1:17:38.880 a heinous, vicious time, you know, So to even be 1:17:38.920 --> 1:17:43.320 president today I consider a blessing. You know. Um, seeing 1:17:43.439 --> 1:17:47.280 being a grandfather was nothing I have envisioned, you know, Um, 1:17:47.280 --> 1:17:51.160 coming back putting my daughter to college and seeing her graduate, 1:17:51.280 --> 1:17:53.760 and then not having a child. You know, I didn't 1:17:53.760 --> 1:17:55.720 even think I would ever be even a part of 1:17:55.720 --> 1:17:57.000 their lives. I didn't think I was gonna live long 1:17:57.120 --> 1:17:59.240 enough to to see this day. But the fact that 1:17:59.280 --> 1:18:03.960 I have done, it's a testimony to to to me 1:18:04.040 --> 1:18:05.880 just enduring and getting by and then, like I said, 1:18:06.080 --> 1:18:08.160 I live in the memory of my mother. So everything 1:18:08.200 --> 1:18:12.520 I do is I'm doing, you know, for her more specifically, 1:18:12.520 --> 1:18:15.280 and I honestly think that she would be proud of me. 1:18:15.360 --> 1:18:17.280 But the man that I turned into present day and 1:18:17.320 --> 1:18:20.200 all the things that I've done so Um, do I 1:18:20.240 --> 1:18:22.360 think I could use therapy. I think all black men 1:18:22.439 --> 1:18:25.360 could use some therapy. I think because coming from our environments, 1:18:25.400 --> 1:18:27.800 that's a fact. But I still feel blessed to be here. 1:18:27.840 --> 1:18:29.200 The thing, like I said, I'm honored to have been 1:18:29.240 --> 1:18:31.400 a part of this panel. That they's very insightful for me. 1:18:31.439 --> 1:18:32.760 You know, I'm glad that I was a part of it. 1:18:32.800 --> 1:18:35.840 Thank you for having Yeah, And I'll just ad I 1:18:35.840 --> 1:18:39.639 don't know. We're wrapping up before you answer the question, 1:18:40.439 --> 1:18:42.360 and I know they're gonna kill me. The whole production 1:18:42.439 --> 1:18:45.160 team is looking at me like I'm crazy. But the 1:18:45.360 --> 1:18:48.960 the we talked about this earlier in the show. Um, 1:18:49.120 --> 1:18:52.640 my brother told me, uh this this past weekend that 1:18:52.720 --> 1:18:55.760 he did sixty months in solitary confinement. I don't know 1:18:55.800 --> 1:18:57.519 why I didn't know. I mean, I was I thought 1:18:57.520 --> 1:19:00.120 I did his bid with him, but clearly maybe as 1:19:00.160 --> 1:19:02.960 I became a teenager, I missed some time. I had 1:19:03.000 --> 1:19:07.360 no idea that he sat in solitary confinement for five years, 1:19:07.720 --> 1:19:11.120 but he told me he grew up in solitary. And 1:19:12.200 --> 1:19:14.080 I'm just trying to I just want to know, Like 1:19:14.120 --> 1:19:17.400 when we talked about therapy, like, what has it been 1:19:17.439 --> 1:19:21.200 like for you to deal with, you know, returning to 1:19:21.320 --> 1:19:24.880 life after having sat in solitary? What would you say 1:19:24.880 --> 1:19:28.000 for seven years? Because my son always tells me after 1:19:28.040 --> 1:19:31.559 how many days something. I think after nineties to sixty days, 1:19:31.840 --> 1:19:36.479 it changes you. It does something mentally to you. You know, yeah, 1:19:36.840 --> 1:19:40.439 more time than that, you know, it's it's it's one 1:19:40.439 --> 1:19:42.920 of the most horrendous things that we can do to 1:19:42.960 --> 1:19:45.040 another human being. And I think a lot of people 1:19:45.080 --> 1:19:49.200 experience just a minor glimpse of what that's like with 1:19:49.280 --> 1:19:52.479 the pandemic um. You know, that feeling of being alone, 1:19:52.560 --> 1:19:55.599 that feeling of not knowing when things are going to change, 1:19:56.280 --> 1:19:59.000 the hardest thing for me about being a solitary it's 1:19:59.080 --> 1:20:02.519 my senses was and definite, which means it's not like, hey, 1:20:02.520 --> 1:20:04.599 you're gonna be there for thirty days or sixty days 1:20:04.680 --> 1:20:06.920 or ninety days or a year. You're just gonna be there, 1:20:06.960 --> 1:20:08.920 and today decided to let you out, And so you 1:20:08.960 --> 1:20:12.719 can never really put your feet on solid ground. And 1:20:13.080 --> 1:20:16.280 it's the it's the most barbaric stripping of a human being. 1:20:17.080 --> 1:20:19.320 People often ask why do I write from such a 1:20:19.439 --> 1:20:22.559 space of vulnerability. It's because I've already been stripped of 1:20:22.600 --> 1:20:27.799 everything um And so for me, regaining ownership over my life, 1:20:28.320 --> 1:20:30.720 you know, requires me to confront the things that have 1:20:30.800 --> 1:20:34.280 made me uncomfortable in life. And you know, when I 1:20:34.320 --> 1:20:38.280 think about my therapeutic processes since I've been out, and 1:20:38.280 --> 1:20:40.160 I promised, I can't wait for y'all to read this book. 1:20:40.160 --> 1:20:42.400 And it's not even just on the sales pitch, but 1:20:42.520 --> 1:20:45.479 I get into like the molecular level of what it 1:20:45.560 --> 1:20:48.000 was like coming out because those that know, when you know, 1:20:48.080 --> 1:20:51.680 the public, the public facing side, right, the accomplishments, the accolades. 1:20:52.360 --> 1:20:54.280 But I talked about in a new book, the Dark 1:20:54.320 --> 1:20:57.519 Side of It, what happens when the lights go off, 1:20:58.160 --> 1:21:00.479 you know, when the cameras are not there. I'm alone 1:21:00.520 --> 1:21:04.360 in the hotel room, um, processing all the trauma that 1:21:04.400 --> 1:21:08.000 I've just vomited up. And you know, so I started 1:21:08.000 --> 1:21:12.320 seeking out counseling, and I started seeking out therapy, and sally, Um, 1:21:12.360 --> 1:21:15.760 it's really hard to find a black therapist. It's hard 1:21:15.800 --> 1:21:18.160 to find a black male therapist that doesn't have a 1:21:18.400 --> 1:21:21.800 back case load of people that can't afford to give 1:21:21.840 --> 1:21:26.640 you the attention. And the last therapist I have cool do. 1:21:27.479 --> 1:21:29.960 But the same thing continues to happen over They get 1:21:30.080 --> 1:21:35.240 so enrapture in the reality that I survived what I survived, 1:21:35.280 --> 1:21:38.679 that I almost become their therapist. And they can't even 1:21:38.720 --> 1:21:41.840 believe that I thrive at this level and that I've 1:21:41.840 --> 1:21:43.320 been able to do the things that I do and 1:21:43.360 --> 1:21:46.960 still show up as a full human being. Where they're like, damn, well, 1:21:47.000 --> 1:21:49.719 what do I need to do, you know what I'm saying, um, 1:21:49.760 --> 1:21:51.680 And so it's made it very difficult, you know, but 1:21:51.720 --> 1:21:53.640 I'm really I can tell you, I'm really fortunate. I 1:21:53.720 --> 1:21:56.639 read a lot of books, I write, you know, writ 1:21:56.840 --> 1:21:58.519 and writing this my therapy, you know. And I just 1:21:58.560 --> 1:22:02.920 have incredibly beautiful people in my life, people who I 1:22:02.960 --> 1:22:06.240 can talk to about all the things, you know, and 1:22:06.240 --> 1:22:09.080 and you know, having having you know, being a dad 1:22:09.160 --> 1:22:11.360 where a lot of my fatherhood has been as a 1:22:11.400 --> 1:22:16.320 single dad. You know, it's really watching my son's processes, 1:22:16.439 --> 1:22:19.400 watching who he is and how he's become without all 1:22:19.439 --> 1:22:22.559 the trauma, has helped me even understand the depths of 1:22:22.600 --> 1:22:24.960 the trauma, because a lot of the trauma we talked 1:22:24.960 --> 1:22:28.599 about right now is like prison and and and gun violence. 1:22:29.080 --> 1:22:31.439 But it's deep. It goes back to our childhood, you know. 1:22:31.520 --> 1:22:34.000 It goes back to what happens in our household, and 1:22:34.040 --> 1:22:36.760 whether it's out of survival, whether it's out of a 1:22:36.840 --> 1:22:39.960 repeated cycle. A lot of that trauma that comes from 1:22:40.000 --> 1:22:42.400 there it bleeds over into how we show up in 1:22:42.400 --> 1:22:44.639 the rest of the world. So I'm just a big 1:22:44.680 --> 1:22:48.080 advocate of people really taking care of their mental health, 1:22:48.240 --> 1:22:51.080 emotional health, cutting off the things and the people that 1:22:51.120 --> 1:22:54.160 don't serve where you're trying to get in life. Um, 1:22:54.200 --> 1:22:56.639 I don't have no problem setting down shop at this point. 1:22:56.680 --> 1:22:59.200 You know, I've matured and grown to a space, a 1:22:59.320 --> 1:23:04.519 really uderstanding that we as black men specifically, we deserve joy. 1:23:05.200 --> 1:23:08.400 You know, we deserve to be able to receive love, 1:23:08.479 --> 1:23:12.320 not just show love. We deserve to be a provided 1:23:12.400 --> 1:23:16.440 for and not just be providers. And that is holistic 1:23:16.520 --> 1:23:20.280 living and experience that we've been robbed of and deprived of, 1:23:20.360 --> 1:23:23.920 and oftentimes we've deprived ourselves of it. And so you know, 1:23:24.000 --> 1:23:27.480 for me, therapy is that, as you know, it's really important. 1:23:27.840 --> 1:23:29.760 And last ye I'll say this. I ran into a 1:23:29.840 --> 1:23:33.840 Yalla what did minor work with before? And we were 1:23:33.960 --> 1:23:35.760 we were we were just talking briefly, I mean like 1:23:35.760 --> 1:23:38.360 a five minute talk, and what she said to me 1:23:38.880 --> 1:23:41.680 has left for imprint on me that I know what 1:23:41.800 --> 1:23:44.800 I need to do is she said, Shockra, no matter 1:23:44.840 --> 1:23:47.080 how you show up in the world, no matter how brilliant, 1:23:47.080 --> 1:23:51.320 how talented, how successful you are, what happened to you 1:23:51.479 --> 1:23:54.759 is embedded in you physically, and you have to move 1:23:54.840 --> 1:23:58.280 that energy out of your body. And I was like, damn, 1:23:58.320 --> 1:24:00.160 she was like, as a human being, you can not 1:24:00.240 --> 1:24:04.080 be confined to solitary for seven years without that impact 1:24:04.080 --> 1:24:07.679 in your sales, like the cellular nature of your being, 1:24:08.320 --> 1:24:10.439 you know. And so it's just like it started showing 1:24:10.479 --> 1:24:13.680 me like all these little things, these nuanced things, you know, 1:24:13.760 --> 1:24:17.479 the emotional disconnect that comes so easily, uh, you know, 1:24:17.720 --> 1:24:21.639 emotional distance from anything that's inconvenient, not even just hard 1:24:21.680 --> 1:24:24.360 that's inconvenient. I don't have time for that, you know 1:24:24.400 --> 1:24:26.880 what I'm saying. Who got time for those feelings? Right? 1:24:26.920 --> 1:24:30.280 Not not even liking being touched, Like it took years 1:24:30.280 --> 1:24:32.920 for me to be comfortable with like just a hub, 1:24:33.640 --> 1:24:36.439 you know how I have conversations to be able to 1:24:37.400 --> 1:24:42.360 enjoy and express myself without skepticism, you know. And so 1:24:42.920 --> 1:24:46.320 you know, there's long term implications of incarceration, and it 1:24:46.360 --> 1:24:49.519 doesn't matter the length of time I promised you, um, 1:24:49.640 --> 1:24:51.400 you know. And and this is something that I think 1:24:51.439 --> 1:24:54.360 we can all appreciate. I'm a big fan of hip hop, 1:24:54.479 --> 1:24:56.479 you know, I'm I think I'm one of the biggest 1:24:56.479 --> 1:25:00.160 fans of hip hop. Pay attention to every artist was 1:25:00.280 --> 1:25:04.960 ever been arrested for any amount of time, The indignity 1:25:05.040 --> 1:25:09.160 of being strict searched of the indignity of being, you know, 1:25:09.280 --> 1:25:13.120 having officers look in your most intimate of spaces, the 1:25:13.280 --> 1:25:17.280 indignity of being shoring up all agency over anything that 1:25:17.920 --> 1:25:21.040 you would normally do as an adult like that psychologically 1:25:21.120 --> 1:25:23.160 damage you. And none of them have ever been the same. 1:25:23.240 --> 1:25:26.400 After that, you see a heightened aggressiveness. You see a 1:25:26.400 --> 1:25:30.679 heightened defensiveness because these are real consequences of what prison 1:25:30.760 --> 1:25:34.120 does far beyond you know, so car protecting the community, 1:25:34.160 --> 1:25:37.000 so a big advocate for mental health. Happy y'all are 1:25:37.120 --> 1:25:39.720 talking about it, and you know, such a pleasure to 1:25:39.760 --> 1:25:43.040 meet you brothers Kevin. You know don Diva saved my 1:25:43.080 --> 1:25:46.080 life many times in prison, you know, renos articles and 1:25:46.160 --> 1:25:50.000 just keeping us connected to what was going on in community. Um, 1:25:50.080 --> 1:25:52.439 and it's so dope to just see, you know, a 1:25:52.560 --> 1:25:56.160 brother who was actually not just a legal counsel but 1:25:56.240 --> 1:25:59.240 also blessing us with the Jews, so that you know, 1:25:59.680 --> 1:26:03.760 any event we need to understand what's happening legally, we 1:26:03.800 --> 1:26:06.840 had it at our disposal. So I can't wait to 1:26:06.880 --> 1:26:10.720 grab your brother's books. Definitely, I'll make sure make sure 1:26:10.760 --> 1:26:13.920 that you're connecting. You'll change exchange information that y'all stay 1:26:14.000 --> 1:26:16.680 connected because these are type of brothers that y'all need 1:26:16.720 --> 1:26:19.080 to read. And I can just see y'all creating and 1:26:19.160 --> 1:26:22.439 building together something that would be, you know, phenomenal. So 1:26:22.479 --> 1:26:25.200 that's that was my process when I put this whole 1:26:25.280 --> 1:26:31.160 thing together. So we gotta go. Job. You know, I 1:26:31.160 --> 1:26:32.880 have to give you a little bit of props. I 1:26:32.960 --> 1:26:35.759 usually beat you up, but you know a little something 1:26:35.760 --> 1:26:42.960 made me look good. I appreciate. So listen. So listen, man, 1:26:42.960 --> 1:26:45.480 we gotta go because we can just have this whole conversation. 1:26:45.479 --> 1:26:47.360 You probably can do this for four or five hours. 1:26:47.760 --> 1:26:49.800 You know, I'm just I'm an old old of you 1:26:49.840 --> 1:26:52.000 guys man, So make sure you get your book, Royce, 1:26:52.040 --> 1:26:55.479 what's the name of your book? Cardiac Arrest Tactical Guide 1:26:55.479 --> 1:26:58.200 on how to handle unlawful police stops. You're also having 1:26:58.240 --> 1:27:00.800 a work footfall, and I'm gonna do Shocker, dude. I'll 1:27:00.800 --> 1:27:03.439 show you the work books and then you go all right, 1:27:04.200 --> 1:27:06.360 all right, shock? What's the name of your book? Said? 1:27:06.400 --> 1:27:09.560 One more time? New one the New Books Letter to 1:27:09.600 --> 1:27:12.120 the Size of the Society of Father's invitation to love, 1:27:12.280 --> 1:27:15.240 honesty and freedom. I understand freedom. Make sure you go 1:27:15.360 --> 1:27:17.479 get that book and Kevin let him know the name 1:27:17.520 --> 1:27:21.280 of your book. Crack Ever the Rods Fall and redemption 1:27:21.320 --> 1:27:30.240 of Kevin Charles and went in the country we built. 1:27:30.400 --> 1:27:33.800 That's right, and all this black excellence in these black books, Man, 1:27:33.840 --> 1:27:36.360 make sure you go out and get everybody. And my 1:27:36.479 --> 1:27:39.400 book is I Know My Rights. It's the first ten 1:27:39.439 --> 1:27:42.479 amendments of the Constitution, just broken down for our youth 1:27:42.800 --> 1:27:46.280 to understand their rights when they're actually engaged by law 1:27:46.400 --> 1:27:48.320 enforcement and have to deal with the law in any 1:27:48.880 --> 1:27:54.400 you know, um capacity. So thank you guys. I appreciate you, man. 1:27:54.840 --> 1:27:56.799 I look forward to continue to build with you, brothers. 1:27:56.800 --> 1:27:58.960 I'm glad that I got all y'all speed down, man, 1:27:59.439 --> 1:28:02.479 so I shate your nothing, beloved man, continue to be great. 1:28:02.760 --> 1:28:04.880 Make sure you go get all of these books. These 1:28:04.960 --> 1:28:07.800 books are things that are going to elevate you and 1:28:07.880 --> 1:28:10.439 give you understanding of what we go through in this 1:28:10.640 --> 1:28:13.400 culture and how us as black men have to adapt 1:28:13.479 --> 1:28:15.920 and continue to evolve and go through so many things, 1:28:16.280 --> 1:28:20.360 but still we rise. Man. I appreciate you brothers. I 1:28:20.439 --> 1:28:29.160 love you all. Thank you you did good because that 1:28:29.439 --> 1:28:32.519 was that was powerful. Chill man. Shout out to those brothers. 1:28:32.640 --> 1:28:36.479 Royce Russell, Shokus and Gore and Kevin, three people that 1:28:36.600 --> 1:28:39.719 I respect, you know, I call them for different jewels 1:28:40.479 --> 1:28:45.000 and they there. I mean, it was powerful. There was 1:28:45.080 --> 1:28:49.439 so much, you know, also being around you. And let 1:28:49.479 --> 1:28:51.680 me just give a shout out to my brother del Song, 1:28:52.120 --> 1:28:55.120 who is the person that actually connected me with Kevin. 1:28:56.080 --> 1:28:59.720 He's another dude that is another real insightful brother that 1:28:59.760 --> 1:29:02.400 I to give me a lot of insight and jews 1:29:02.439 --> 1:29:04.040 from shut up to I gotta get in my d 1:29:04.240 --> 1:29:06.439 m s and debate with Delson because he loves to 1:29:06.560 --> 1:29:09.519 debate me on on things or give me a little 1:29:09.560 --> 1:29:11.599 bit of information about stuff I may not be paying 1:29:11.640 --> 1:29:15.320 attention to. But I'm gonna tell you when I listened 1:29:15.360 --> 1:29:18.519 to them and what they were saying, I think about 1:29:19.360 --> 1:29:21.960 just over time and specifically since I'm with you and 1:29:22.080 --> 1:29:27.080 Angelo Attorney, Angelo pintol Our other co found that until 1:29:27.120 --> 1:29:29.280 freedom and since I'm with y'all so much, and I 1:29:29.720 --> 1:29:31.640 listened to the things y'all say. You may not think so, 1:29:31.720 --> 1:29:33.800 because Lynda and I argued back and forth from Joab 1:29:33.840 --> 1:29:36.720 all the time, but I do listen. And even in 1:29:37.280 --> 1:29:41.800 my book where you wrote your part, your your piece, 1:29:41.880 --> 1:29:45.479 where you talk about your experience. You say starting out 1:29:45.680 --> 1:29:48.080 that you have always felt like there was no one 1:29:48.160 --> 1:29:52.200 that you could depend on, and then hearing Royce also 1:29:52.439 --> 1:29:54.240 say that, like you know, he had to be his 1:29:54.360 --> 1:29:58.480 own cheerleader. It's just it resonates so much the stories 1:29:58.640 --> 1:30:01.320 that no matter what the bad ground maybe or where 1:30:01.400 --> 1:30:05.040 you all have come gone and how you've evolved, there 1:30:05.080 --> 1:30:11.120 are still these fundamental challenges about black men not feeling supported, love, respected, 1:30:11.680 --> 1:30:14.840 um and and that's painful to hear, especially being the 1:30:15.000 --> 1:30:17.599 mother of a black son, because I don't want him 1:30:17.640 --> 1:30:20.320 to feel that way. But there's something about society that 1:30:20.520 --> 1:30:23.680 just does that to our men. It is man and 1:30:23.800 --> 1:30:26.320 it's a common threat. When you listen to roy say 1:30:26.360 --> 1:30:28.800 that I was, I shook my head, like wow, you 1:30:28.880 --> 1:30:30.880 feel like you're your own cheerleader. You don't want to 1:30:31.280 --> 1:30:33.720 be disappointed, so you just figure it out. Cared was 1:30:33.760 --> 1:30:37.439 talking about how he just became he normalt Like I said, 1:30:37.479 --> 1:30:41.640 a lot of times, we've normalized ab normality. He normalized disappointment. 1:30:41.720 --> 1:30:44.519 He's emostly detached. When you listen to Shocker, he could 1:30:44.560 --> 1:30:46.360 just walk away. He don't even want to deal with 1:30:46.400 --> 1:30:49.400 anything that inconveniences him. Right when you when you go 1:30:49.560 --> 1:30:51.400 through so many things in life and you deal with 1:30:51.560 --> 1:30:55.040 certain levels of trauma, imprisonment, you know, violence and all 1:30:55.120 --> 1:30:58.160 those things, you become numb to certain things. You become 1:30:58.320 --> 1:31:01.600 so detached, like I feel like I need levels of 1:31:01.640 --> 1:31:04.080 seclusion in my life. I just need to be by myself. 1:31:04.160 --> 1:31:06.720 I don't you know, I can't share space. It's so 1:31:06.800 --> 1:31:09.120 many different things that we deal with as black men 1:31:09.479 --> 1:31:12.160 going through we we've been through, man, and just hearing 1:31:12.240 --> 1:31:15.599 them just say it right, and and and just being 1:31:15.680 --> 1:31:18.200 able to say word. You know, I know what that is, man. 1:31:18.280 --> 1:31:21.640 So it's therapeutic just listening to other people who have 1:31:21.800 --> 1:31:25.080 shared experiences, who have shared emotions and things that you 1:31:25.200 --> 1:31:28.120 dealt with that you never even been able to express 1:31:28.240 --> 1:31:31.040 or tell to anybody else, and is to hear them freely, 1:31:31.520 --> 1:31:34.559 Like you said, be transparent and vulnerable on this space 1:31:34.720 --> 1:31:37.160 was just something that was very enlighten. It is, isn't 1:31:37.200 --> 1:31:41.600 it crazy? Maybe maybe this is the wrong perspective, but 1:31:42.400 --> 1:31:45.679 how the things that cause us trauma also can teach 1:31:45.760 --> 1:31:50.080 us such powerful lessons, Like the things that we see 1:31:50.200 --> 1:31:52.599 that might not be good for us on one hand, 1:31:53.120 --> 1:31:56.679 actually teach us humility and other things. So I talked 1:31:56.680 --> 1:31:59.880 about my my cousin Jimmy. You know, we call all 1:32:00.040 --> 1:32:02.320 older people uncle, so his uncle Jimmy to me, but 1:32:02.360 --> 1:32:04.639 he was actually my cousin and he used to come 1:32:04.680 --> 1:32:06.959 to our house every Sunday when we lived in the projects. 1:32:07.360 --> 1:32:11.840 He was on drugs, homeless, and he had aids. He 1:32:12.000 --> 1:32:15.280 was bleeding at times, he had all kinds of issues. 1:32:15.680 --> 1:32:18.200 I probably, as a young kid, shouldn't have been seeing 1:32:18.280 --> 1:32:20.640 that right at the dinner table in our house. They 1:32:20.720 --> 1:32:24.880 cleaned the area, but they fed him. That trauma also 1:32:25.120 --> 1:32:28.800 taught me humility. It was important for me to see 1:32:28.960 --> 1:32:32.840 my family not think that they were so uppity that 1:32:32.960 --> 1:32:36.479 they would not still take care of and love up 1:32:36.600 --> 1:32:39.960 on a family member who was, you know, going through 1:32:40.080 --> 1:32:42.040 He was at the end of his life, and it's 1:32:42.120 --> 1:32:45.240 like we black folks just have to We always have 1:32:45.439 --> 1:32:49.840 to juggle with so many different realities and then be 1:32:50.000 --> 1:32:54.280 able to get the best from the worst. So watching 1:32:54.360 --> 1:32:57.840 him in his situation wasn't because I I remember it 1:32:58.000 --> 1:33:02.160 and it traumatizes me at times. His smell, his all 1:33:02.240 --> 1:33:04.200 of these things that he was going through, but he 1:33:04.400 --> 1:33:07.680 also was so he loved us so much and he 1:33:07.840 --> 1:33:12.719 was able to come that to a home despite whatever 1:33:12.880 --> 1:33:16.439 his situation is. I know that did something good for me, 1:33:17.040 --> 1:33:19.920 even though the images are are things I'll never get 1:33:19.960 --> 1:33:22.840 out of my mind. That's real when you know, we 1:33:22.960 --> 1:33:25.120 we learned, like you said, we learned from our trauma 1:33:25.520 --> 1:33:29.479 and it teaches us certain things. Man, so dope episode, 1:33:30.200 --> 1:33:32.719 you know, shout out to those brothers, and that brings 1:33:32.800 --> 1:33:40.760 me to my I don't get it. What don't you 1:33:40.840 --> 1:33:43.400 get this? So we talked about all of these real things, 1:33:43.520 --> 1:33:47.839 like this is a really real deep episode and reality, 1:33:48.240 --> 1:33:51.920 you know, this is like real realities, the things tangible, 1:33:52.040 --> 1:33:55.080 things you see, you touch, you smell, you actually engage in. 1:33:56.120 --> 1:33:59.880 And as we moved towards you know, the future, the future, 1:34:00.000 --> 1:34:02.920 the future, and we talk about n f T S 1:34:03.200 --> 1:34:06.800 and crypto right and and those being the next biggest things. 1:34:06.840 --> 1:34:09.800 And I get why, you know, I get what's going 1:34:09.880 --> 1:34:12.479 on because you know, I got kids that play PS 1:34:12.560 --> 1:34:16.559 four and all these things, PS five and ps FO. 1:34:16.600 --> 1:34:18.720 They really listen to me. They play PS five, But 1:34:18.840 --> 1:34:20.640 these kids love that PS four. They don't even my 1:34:20.760 --> 1:34:22.840 kids don't even I brought the PS five from them 1:34:22.920 --> 1:34:25.719 last Christmas that they ain't open and they're playing, still 1:34:25.760 --> 1:34:27.320 playing the PS four. I don't know what it is, 1:34:27.439 --> 1:34:30.680 but that's just the thing. But when you look and 1:34:30.800 --> 1:34:35.400 see how day on this game and every day Keston, 1:34:35.560 --> 1:34:37.800 my youngest son, comes to me like that I need 1:34:37.880 --> 1:34:41.560 twenty dollars I set for what for v Bucks? I'm like, 1:34:41.680 --> 1:34:44.040 what is v Bucks? I want to buy the new skin. 1:34:44.320 --> 1:34:48.240 I want to buy this. And he's paying for virtual outfits, 1:34:49.040 --> 1:34:53.120 literally paying for clothes, and even he's paying for clothes. 1:34:53.439 --> 1:34:55.639 So I realized that this is the future because all 1:34:55.680 --> 1:34:57.479 the kids are doing it. They want v Bucks, they 1:34:57.520 --> 1:34:59.760 want v Bucks. So n f t S actually makes 1:35:00.560 --> 1:35:05.960 in that regard. But the reality is people are going 1:35:06.080 --> 1:35:11.160 to be investing in owning virtual stuff like it's a 1:35:11.240 --> 1:35:14.280 real life. Like people are going to be buying things 1:35:14.600 --> 1:35:18.280 on the internet like it's a real place that they're 1:35:18.320 --> 1:35:22.880 actually visiting, like clothing and shoes and shopping for food. 1:35:23.200 --> 1:35:25.320 Like they had a whole program where you go in 1:35:25.479 --> 1:35:29.559 Walmart and you're shopping like you and you're spending real money, 1:35:30.360 --> 1:35:33.960 like you have some kind of tangible something from that. 1:35:34.320 --> 1:35:36.920 But in their mind, it is because they've created a 1:35:37.040 --> 1:35:40.680 whole universe that you live inside this universe and you 1:35:40.880 --> 1:35:43.840 you tune in and it's like a real life, and 1:35:43.960 --> 1:35:45.920 that's what the future is going to look like. And 1:35:46.000 --> 1:35:50.000 I just don't get how we've normalized some shing like that, 1:35:50.160 --> 1:35:56.000 like how have we it just has It's not I 1:35:56.040 --> 1:35:59.000 don't think that's progression. I know what I'm saying, Well, progress, 1:35:59.080 --> 1:36:01.519 I don't mean progress and a positive or negative. I'm 1:36:01.560 --> 1:36:07.000 just saying it's, um, it's developed into uh more expensive, 1:36:07.760 --> 1:36:11.000 more whatever. Right, I don't even know the proper words 1:36:11.000 --> 1:36:15.000 I'm looking for. But when i'm because I bought stuff too, 1:36:15.560 --> 1:36:17.920 I want first of all, if you think about a 1:36:18.080 --> 1:36:21.120 doll baby, we had to buy all the extra little 1:36:21.240 --> 1:36:29.719 clothes the top, but your own doll baby the world. 1:36:30.760 --> 1:36:33.720 So you're in the computer, so somebody has so listen 1:36:33.760 --> 1:36:35.960 to me. They're gonna have Louisa tone stories, They're gonna 1:36:35.960 --> 1:36:38.360 have all of this in the metaverse. Will you actually 1:36:38.479 --> 1:36:42.360 spend money for those clothes as pretty much the same 1:36:42.479 --> 1:36:45.200 prices that you spit out here, and you're gonna own 1:36:45.240 --> 1:36:49.320 them inside the metaverse? It's it's it's it's what's happening. 1:36:51.680 --> 1:36:54.000 Almost two thousand dollar? You know? The cell phone is 1:36:54.040 --> 1:36:57.160 almost two thousand dollars? Get it? But I own my 1:36:57.280 --> 1:37:01.120 phone though, see I can touch this it stores of things. Yeah, 1:37:01.320 --> 1:37:04.519 like a metavert. It's not even it's virtual reality. Like 1:37:04.640 --> 1:37:07.719 we're really gonna be paying to own things in virtual 1:37:07.760 --> 1:37:11.559 reality with a lot of real money and people invest. 1:37:11.640 --> 1:37:14.360 And that's what the future is going to party, what 1:37:14.439 --> 1:37:16.400 it's going to do with your friends, your friends being 1:37:17.040 --> 1:37:19.960 the party virtual and the thing is, what that's gonna 1:37:20.000 --> 1:37:22.439 do is just eliminate people from really this is what 1:37:22.600 --> 1:37:26.519 the pandemic. It's a problem, like people are going to 1:37:26.800 --> 1:37:29.200 live so much in virtual reality that they're not even 1:37:29.240 --> 1:37:31.920 gonna be living in real reality. That's gonna be their 1:37:32.000 --> 1:37:35.439 real reality. Let me tell you right now. Right now, 1:37:35.640 --> 1:37:41.200 people think Instagram and whatever else, these different online things, 1:37:41.640 --> 1:37:45.160 that's the Instagram. But at least Instagram is pictures of 1:37:45.280 --> 1:37:47.840 your real life. Right, It's going to be living in 1:37:47.920 --> 1:37:51.040 your that's not in the metaverse. Is not your real life. No, 1:37:51.280 --> 1:37:54.400 it is, because it's gonna be your picture. Right, It's 1:37:54.400 --> 1:37:57.720 gonna be you like you, like you inside that you're 1:37:57.720 --> 1:38:05.040 moving around inside this place. The thing. Your friends will 1:38:05.080 --> 1:38:08.880 be on the headphones and you'll see and hear them 1:38:09.000 --> 1:38:12.640 speaking to you, and y'alla be together. So instead of 1:38:12.760 --> 1:38:16.479 writing on Instagram a message back and forth you will 1:38:16.520 --> 1:38:19.200 be acting out whatever it is that you're saying to 1:38:19.320 --> 1:38:23.320 your friend or having the conversation with them in person. Anyway, 1:38:24.160 --> 1:38:28.880 no way. Our show has been long, but it was 1:38:28.920 --> 1:38:31.479 a dope show. Shout out to the brothers who came 1:38:31.560 --> 1:38:32.840 up here, and make sure you get all of these 1:38:32.880 --> 1:38:37.679 books Cardiac Arrest, The Crack Error by Kevin Child's, Cardiac 1:38:37.760 --> 1:38:45.160 Arrest by Royce Russell, and Society. Go out and get 1:38:45.200 --> 1:38:48.400 those books into me because it's still one of the 1:38:48.479 --> 1:38:50.360 best sellers out here. Make sure you go get that. 1:38:51.040 --> 1:38:53.920 And with that said, into the show. We appreciate you. 1:38:54.040 --> 1:38:55.960 Make sure that you continue to make us number one 1:38:56.840 --> 1:39:00.640 she Politicians, number one podcast in the world. I'm not 1:39:01.320 --> 1:39:08.040 number one in our hearts. We need people number one existence. 1:39:08.120 --> 1:39:10.200 I'm not saying that that we don't. But if the 1:39:10.320 --> 1:39:13.560 thing is, if people believe that it's already there, not 1:39:13.720 --> 1:39:17.760 pushing I'm telling you no, no, you listen. People want 1:39:17.760 --> 1:39:21.559 to watch me, get me the best number. And y'all, 1:39:21.760 --> 1:39:23.439 I'm not gonna always do right to me. It's not 1:39:23.479 --> 1:39:25.960 gonna always be wrong. We will both always mean, always, 1:39:26.000 --> 1:39:27.799 always always always be authentic.