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Speaker 1: Ridiculous crime. It's a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Dude that you Elizabeth Dutton.

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Speaker 3: Dude, it's me.

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Speaker 2: I got a question for you, Elizabeth Dutton.

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Speaker 3: Zaron Burnett lay it on me.

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Speaker 2: Do you know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 3: You know, I know it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: No, you do?

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Speaker 3: Okay, So you know how furries rubbed me the wrong way?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's a fun way of putting it.

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Speaker 3: And you know it's like that's a meat problem. That's

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Speaker 3: not them. Sure you know that's a meat problem. But

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Speaker 3: Marsberry on Instagram sent something that was forwarded to me,

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Speaker 3: and I feel like it was an active war, active war.

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Speaker 3: It was an aggressive thing to send.

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Speaker 2: This on mars Berry's part to pass it.

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Speaker 3: Along because this is worse than a furry.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, it's okay.

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Speaker 3: Since this story is from twenty twenty three, there's this

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Speaker 3: Japanese man who had a long haired collie suit made

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Speaker 3: for himself. Oh, which are there? It's called like a

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Speaker 3: rough colleiae, like the like lassie. So he spent more

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Speaker 3: than you know, like ten thousand euros, more than ten thousand.

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Speaker 2: Dollars lifelike collie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, because he wanted to realize his dream of

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Speaker 3: transforming into a rough collie. His name is Toco.

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Speaker 2: So he's out there looking like lassie.

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Speaker 3: Dude, I'm gonna show you these pictures. So Toko, he

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Speaker 3: like it took him two years. He went to this company,

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Speaker 3: zeppet zepp E.

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Speaker 2: T Let me get a pen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I write it down. They create realistic costumes and

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Speaker 3: models for films, and so he was like, hey, make

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Speaker 3: me a Collie costume.

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Speaker 2: You guys made the Predator. Can you get me a dog?

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Speaker 3: He said, he's always wanted to quote since I was

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Speaker 3: a kid, I've always wanted to make over. Well, you know, son,

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Speaker 3: there are other ways. I when I'm wearing my suit,

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Speaker 3: I feel happy because my dream turns into reality. So

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Speaker 3: that's that's quote in Toco.

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Speaker 2: There. I'm sure that sounds like far better.

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Speaker 3: And every now and then he goes out on the

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Speaker 3: street in this but he doesn't like to because.

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Speaker 2: Can gather out on the street, people.

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Speaker 3: Pull like there's this lady who pulls him around in

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Speaker 3: a cart, or he stands there like sits. People come

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Speaker 3: up and like take pictures and hug on him like postures.

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Speaker 2: He's sitting like on his knees, hands in front of him.

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Speaker 3: Oh my, I'm showing you the picture right now. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to have him put this on the Instagram story.

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Speaker 2: He's dragging him in the wagon.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he's lay on his back showing for the belly rubs. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So he he's got like a YouTube channel and you know,

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Speaker 3: the tiktoks and stuff. Everyone you know is fascinated by him. Me,

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Speaker 3: I'm repulsed. He doesn't tell about his.

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Speaker 2: Life or like, yeah, putting you in.

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Speaker 3: It is so looking at these pictures, it's so uncomfortable. Why,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, it's a me problem.

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Speaker 2: I didn't I'm I'm not suggesting that you're judging the man,

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Speaker 2: but I mean, why does it make you uncomfortable?

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Speaker 3: Also, it's not just that he loves collies. He loves

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Speaker 3: malamutes and huskies and Golden Retrievers. And he's like, you know,

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Speaker 3: we're not even going to entertain that Querry. And he

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Speaker 3: said he's open to getting other suits.

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Speaker 2: He's so he has other makeovers in mind, I guess.

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Speaker 2: But it's like, if you were to wear an outfit

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Speaker 2: that made you look like an animal, is there any

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Speaker 2: animal that you'd be like? That'd be kind of fun

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Speaker 2: if the suit was convinced none. So it's not about

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Speaker 2: the fur or the the scales or the feathers.

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Speaker 3: I run hot, I would get so sweaty.

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Speaker 2: We'll say it has absorbency on the inside and the cooling.

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Speaker 3: System, and I don't like things touching me.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let's say it also has like a lattice system,

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Speaker 2: so fairly it's floating.

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Speaker 3: And I would I would be so irritated with myself.

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Speaker 3: You look at you, Elizabeth, You're so precious, You're so quirky.

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Speaker 3: Get out of here. I mean, if I could transform

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Speaker 3: into an actual animal, Okay, well, you never to return

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Speaker 3: to human form, that's.

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Speaker 2: A different question. It's a totally different question.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: It is ridiculous. I'm written for Toco. No offense to

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Speaker 2: those who are only offenses to you. It's a problem, Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: The only one who should be offended is.

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Speaker 3: You, and that is what's happened you. That is what

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Speaker 3: is happening, right, Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: Yes, talking about smuggling drugs before we have I mean, naturally,

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Speaker 2: because some drug buster are just it's just strange fun Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And Okay, for instance, we've talked about when tough Guy

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Speaker 2: actor Robert Mitcham got busted because he was a jazz

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Speaker 2: loving reef for smoking. Havecat right? I remember that we

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Speaker 2: talked about Lord Buckley, the High Priest of Bebop, with

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Speaker 2: his free floating church of the High cosmic parties and

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Speaker 2: his misadventures with the law in LA in the forties

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Speaker 2: and fifties.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Then there was the Brothers of the Eternal Sunshine, the

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Speaker 2: former biker gang lost Sir for drug smugglers. Yep, There's

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Speaker 2: so many others we've covered. But because I know that

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Speaker 2: we both love a drug smuggling story, I got another

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Speaker 2: one for you. But today I wanted to pirouette on

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Speaker 2: this theme, tell you a story about it. Amateur drug

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Speaker 2: smuggling gone wrong. Oh no, Oh, that's kind of a

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Speaker 2: reach to call this a story of drug smuggling. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so but it is. That's exactly what happened. Drugs were smuggled,

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Speaker 2: busts were made, mistakes were made. What I'm saying is,

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Speaker 2: today I want to tell you a hep little tale

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Speaker 2: about some muggles smoking. Daddy Oho got caught flat footed

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Speaker 2: by the fuzz when the beat suddenly stopped. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a jazz and reefer story.

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Speaker 3: Baby, hell yeah.

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Speaker 2: How about the late great jazz drummer Jean Crouper.

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Speaker 5: No, this is ridiculous, cry my podcast about absurd and

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Speaker 5: how ragees, capers, heists and cons.

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Speaker 2: It's always ninety nine percent murder free and one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: Jazz hand jazz, listen jazz and over here.

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Speaker 2: What do you know about Reefer Madness?

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Speaker 3: Like the film?

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Speaker 2: Yea? Like the og film? Yeah, like I had to, like,

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Speaker 2: have you ever seen it?

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Speaker 3: No? I you know now what I think about it.

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Speaker 3: I don't think I've ever seen it. I've seen it

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Speaker 3: as like a novelty, you know, like the posters and

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Speaker 3: such where people have it like on a T shirt, Like.

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Speaker 2: Right, so you smoke put.

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Speaker 3: Huh yeah, I'm quirky.

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Speaker 2: So well, for purposes of research for this, I started

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Speaker 2: to watch it. But that film is unwatchable. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: so bad. It sucks. But the trailer is hilarious. So

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Speaker 2: I watched that a couple of times. Okay, and I

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Speaker 2: have some highlights from that for you. It opens with

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Speaker 2: this narrator soberly intoning these high school boys and girls

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Speaker 2: are having a hop at the local soda fountain. Innocently,

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Speaker 2: they dance innocent of a new and deadly menace lurking

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Speaker 2: behind closed doors. Now, then cut to a guy who

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Speaker 2: looks like he's tried to, like, I don't know, assassinate

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Speaker 2: frans Ferd Nuns. And this guy's like in the closet.

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Speaker 2: He looks like he's like Peter Laurie's connect right, and

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Speaker 2: he lights up a joint and then this gong strikes

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Speaker 2: that be foreign and then all of a sudden, like

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Speaker 2: the narrator comes back in marijuana, the burning weed with

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Speaker 2: its roots in hell right now, in case you're wondering

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Speaker 2: how bad the real danger might be in nineteen thirty eight,

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Speaker 2: the narrator warns viewers, in this film, you will see

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Speaker 2: the ease with which this vicious plant can be grown

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Speaker 2: in your neighbor's yard, rolled into harmless looking cigarettes hidden

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Speaker 2: in an innocent shoe or watchcase. Deserve That's not always,

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Speaker 2: because the music then shifts to violins and strings. Right

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Speaker 2: that passes like guy like tense? Oh no, not like

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Speaker 2: a kitchcock, like like he love yeah? Like oh, cut

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Speaker 2: to the lovers right exactly now, and then the narrator

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Speaker 2: comes back in with In this startling film, you will

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Speaker 2: see dopsters lore children to destruction. Now, later in the trailer,

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Speaker 2: the narrator warns mystery and Missus America and all the

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Speaker 2: ships at sea that smoking the soul destroying reefer, they

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Speaker 2: find a moment's pleasure. So he's talking about the couples

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Speaker 2: with the strings, right, So he cut to this thirties

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Speaker 2: couple like they're canoodling on the chesterfield and aka the sofa.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: And later as these main dopesters listen to the main dopeter,

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Speaker 2: I guess basically he's listening to this girl played jazz

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Speaker 2: piano and he's puffing on the demon weed. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: he's taking like real long polls on this like the

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Speaker 2: jazz cabbage, right, and he has this semi possessed look

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Speaker 2: on his face, like hey, like like a raving man,

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Speaker 2: like the way someone pictured madness in the nineteenth century

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Speaker 2: or I guess the early twentieth century. Right, So anyway

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Speaker 2: back to the narrator, Oh, he's talking over this raving

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Speaker 2: guy and the ultimate end of the marijuana addict hopeless insanity.

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Speaker 2: And then we see the same dopester repeating the stoned

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Speaker 2: out mantra to himself. Play faster, play faster, play play.

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Speaker 3: Faster, Yeah, that's exactly what happens when people smoke.

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Speaker 2: We exactly, they can turn into little Peter Lourie's. Now

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Speaker 2: what I love is that the woman on the piano

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Speaker 2: puffing away also on like a giant hooter of her own. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: she isn't playing boogie woogie or like stride piano like

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Speaker 2: Fats Waller Jelly Roll Morgan, which would have been more appropriate. No,

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Speaker 2: she's playing and he's not playing like a Count Basie

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Speaker 2: or Benny Goodman, which would been really the music of

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Speaker 2: the time. She's playing like bar talk, like bella bar talk,

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Speaker 2: classical music, just really fast. She's jamming through this classical piece. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: this is the attitude around marijuana among the Straits in

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Speaker 2: nineteen thirties.

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Speaker 3: They'd be like, now, witness the wine mom exactly, the

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Speaker 3: gummy after the tennis tournament.

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Speaker 2: Turn Grandpa onto pop for the first time, look at him,

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Speaker 2: giggle and smile. Now, let's just say the war did

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Speaker 2: not change how America's view of the demon marijuana was going. Right,

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Speaker 2: So as we started turning from isolationist America before World

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Speaker 2: War Two to like, oh, let's look at the international stage.

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Speaker 2: It's the country, we were like, oh, we're still afraid

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Speaker 2: of like all these foreign people. So they started demonizing

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Speaker 2: pot with all the same aspects. Before it was like,

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Speaker 2: oh it's blame Asia, let's blame Mexico. So that's the idea. No,

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Speaker 2: who terrified America of weed? Who was it? Two names, Elizabeth?

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Speaker 2: Two names names? Very good? Good guess though. No Hurst,

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Speaker 2: Harry j Anslinger we've talked about. Yeah, we talked about

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Speaker 2: Harry j Anslinger before. But first William Randolph Hurst.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Doing research for this, I wanted to see what the

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Speaker 2: contemporary commentary was, Like, what were William Randolph Hurst, like

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Speaker 2: peers saying about him instead of people looking back? Now,

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Speaker 2: what were they saying then? So, Elizabeth, I found some

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Speaker 2: old newspapers because I know you love that. I found

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Speaker 2: this political cartoon because I love that, and it kind

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Speaker 2: of said it all right. It's a critique of Hurst

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Speaker 2: yellow journalism. It's this lampoon of the scare campaigns that

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Speaker 2: he was like always trying to sell. In this case,

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Speaker 2: it was about reefer madness. So if you notice there's

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Speaker 2: his cartoon, there's an illustration of William Randolph first standing

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Speaker 2: hunched over a sales counter at like a drug store,

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Speaker 2: like he's the pharmacist, but more like a patent medicine man. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: So what is he offering? Great question to you. There's

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Speaker 2: a sign behind him and it reads dope journalism, Escape

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Speaker 2: truth and reality. Ask for my latest mixtures hypocrisy and

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Speaker 2: sophistry for every occasion thirty years experience editorials to produce

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Speaker 2: paralysis of thought. And then there's my favorite line. Right,

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Speaker 2: they're just hitting them, but below the sales line is

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Speaker 2: added this little added sign, like you know they'd hook

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Speaker 2: on signs like back in the day. So it's like

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Speaker 2: venom and hatred to kill labor unions endorsed by big industries. Right.

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Speaker 2: The cartoon is called The Man who Opposes the Sale

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Speaker 2: of Dope and by artist Art Young. Right yeah, right,

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Speaker 2: I thought so, Elizabeth. Here's what it looks like. Here's

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Speaker 2: the cartoon. Okay, yeah, yeah, right, So you see it's

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Speaker 2: like it's very early twentieth century illustration style but effective.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they did nail them with all the stuff. Well, anyway,

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Speaker 2: the cartoon was critical of two key threads in Hearst's

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Speaker 2: attack against cannabis. Right, because first it's the racist fear mongering, right,

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Speaker 2: the unquenchable capitalist degree. These are his two big right,

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Speaker 2: He's a fact at Elizabeth in your words, he was

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Speaker 2: violently wealthy, Yes he was, and he used his wealth

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Speaker 2: to do violence to the causes that he despised and

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Speaker 2: personally opposed, for instance, marijuana aka cannabis. Now keep in mind,

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Speaker 2: William Randolph Hurst is why we call it marijuana. Oh really, Yes,

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Speaker 2: he was a newspaper publisher, right, so he was able

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Speaker 2: to shape narratives and craft with the American minds were

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Speaker 2: like feeding on and so well, let me put it

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Speaker 2: this way. What does the newspaper publisher require to make

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Speaker 2: his money ad sales? Well, yes, but at the most

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Speaker 2: basic level paper, Yeah, like being an industrialist, Hirst owned

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Speaker 2: paper companies. He was big in the lumber business, which

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Speaker 2: also meant he saw industrial hemp as a threat. He's

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Speaker 2: a cheap fiber and if it reached industrial scales, which

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Speaker 2: it looked like it was about to do, he saw

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Speaker 2: that as a threat to him as a lumber bearer.

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Speaker 2: So what does a newspaper man need to make his money? Also? Well,

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Speaker 2: obviously news and sometimes if there isn't a sort of

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Speaker 2: news that would sell papers, a cunning newspaperman like him,

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Speaker 2: he invents it. Yeah, he makes it up. He's like, eh,

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Speaker 2: this is happening. Maybe I don't know what's happening. So

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Speaker 2: he pushes it, and he events whole serieses of news

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Speaker 2: stories see the Spanish American War. But then in this

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Speaker 2: case he does like the starting nineteen fourteen, he starts

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Speaker 2: going against pot. Takes about twenty years to get it

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Speaker 2: to where it's illegal in the country, but he just

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Speaker 2: keeps beating this drum and creates a moral panic, just

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Speaker 2: a one man moral panic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Now, well, I don't want to like, I don't want

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Speaker 2: to mislead you. Marijuana was an accurate word that was

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Speaker 2: used in Mexico. It's in Spanish speaking places in the Southwest,

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Speaker 2: but most Americans called it cannabis at the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and then he introduced it as marijuana, so it would

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Speaker 2: become sound foreign and exotic and scary.

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Speaker 3: Wells, Peter Talk said, some call it marijuana.

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Speaker 2: But also he was, I mean, we think of it.

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Speaker 2: This is like, you know, in reggae terms, right, they

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Speaker 2: think of Rastafari as he had him where Hurst had

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Speaker 2: most Americans. Well, here's a quote from one of his

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Speaker 2: newspapers in nineteen twenty three, in a Hearst newspaper reported, quote,

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Speaker 2: marijuana is a short cut to the insane asylum. Smoke

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Speaker 2: marijuana cigarettes for a month, and what was once your

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Speaker 2: brain will be nothing but a storehouse for horrid specters.

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Speaker 3: That's in the newspaper, right, This is your brain on drugs.

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Speaker 4: Total.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. So with this level of fear mongering didn't

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Speaker 2: suffice to scare America. Hearst Newspapers then upped the foreign

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Speaker 2: exotic angle. So in nineteen twenty eight he comes back

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Speaker 2: with his papers have another story. Marijuana was known in

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Speaker 2: India as the murder drug. It was common for a

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Speaker 2: man to quote, catch up a knife and run through

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Speaker 2: the streets, hacking and killing everyone he encountered.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, but none of their descriptions match up with

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Speaker 3: what I know of what people who are high on

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Speaker 3: we behave, Like.

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Speaker 2: Anyone saw anyone ever smoked pop. They're like, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: this discussion accord. No. So then we have the second

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Speaker 2: man on the scene who worked just as hard to

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Speaker 2: transform cannabis into marijuana and birth a full blown nationwide

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Speaker 2: moral panic. His name was Harry j Ensling. Yeah right now,

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Speaker 2: his wife's uncle gets him a job at the Treasury

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Speaker 2: Department right now. You see, he could do that because

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Speaker 2: his wife's uncle was Andrew Mellon, the Secretary of the Treasury. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: So anyway, once he hopscotched off some old fashioned nepotism

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Speaker 2: and landed himself a cushy spot in federal employment, unqualified

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Speaker 2: as he was, an slinger, eventually was named the first

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Speaker 2: director of the Federal Bureau of the Narcotics. We got

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Speaker 2: a new department. We're gonna start.

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Speaker 3: How about this guy. You know what, it's the more

303
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Speaker 3: things change, the more they stay the same.

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Speaker 2: So at this point he's like, he's the man who

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Speaker 2: said to himself, you know what, mister Hurst, I don't

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Speaker 2: think you're racist enough. I'm not kidding. He didn't actually

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Speaker 2: say that, but he could have. Yeah, So he saw

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Speaker 2: what Hurst is trying to do, and he decided I

309
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Speaker 2: can do that from the federal law enforcement level. So

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Speaker 2: he pushes to rebrand cannabis as marijuana, and he very

311
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Speaker 2: specifically does this to associate cannabis now. But the farmers

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Speaker 2: in the Pacific Northwest are pushing to make it industrial.

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Speaker 2: But the Mexican dope smokers at the border that the

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Speaker 2: police are like writing stories about in the early twenties.

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Speaker 2: So we know this is the case because Hinsluinger once said,

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Speaker 2: and I quote, there are one hundred thousand total marijuana

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Speaker 2: smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos,

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Speaker 2: and entertainers. Their satanic music, jazz and swing results from

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Speaker 2: marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual

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Speaker 2: relations with Negroes, entertainers, and others. Entertainers. I think that's

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Speaker 2: code for Jewish. I think that's what that is. Oh

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Speaker 2: you think, yeah, I think that's what that is. I

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Speaker 2: don't know. But also for actors, you know, just musicians

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Speaker 2: is generally like oh yeah, like you know, if you're

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Speaker 2: a Polish saxophone, you get thrown in there. So it's

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Speaker 2: all right there, So the seeds of a moral panic

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Speaker 2: are taking root. Right, And then I read through the

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Speaker 2: transcripts of Harry j Anslinger's congressional testimony when he was

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Speaker 2: waging his war to make cannabis illegal. And it took

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Speaker 2: that because it took him a while, took him until

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Speaker 2: nineteen thirty seven, and then they passed the marijuana taxac boom.

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Speaker 2: It's illegal. But you'll see that. Well, let's have some

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Speaker 2: fun with this, Elizabeth, I prepared some selections for us

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Speaker 2: to ready. You'll be Harry j Annslinger, and I will

335
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Speaker 2: be every other Congressman on the House in Ways and

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Speaker 2: Means to this little Yeah no, Elizabeth, you're down to

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Speaker 2: do some dramatic recreations. I am producer d if you'd

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Speaker 2: be so kind.

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Speaker 3: Mister Chairman. My name is Harry j Ann Slinger. I

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Speaker 3: am a Commissioner of Narcotics in the Bureau of Narcotics

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Speaker 3: in the Treasury Department, Mister Chairman, and distinguished members of

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Speaker 3: the Ways and Means Committee. It is known as cannabis,

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Speaker 3: cannabis americana, or cannabis sativa. Marijuana is the Mexican term

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Speaker 3: for cannabis indica. He's good, he knows. We seem to

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Speaker 3: have adopted the Mexican terminology. We call it marijuana, which

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Speaker 3: means good feeling. In the underworld, it is referred to

347
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Speaker 3: by such colorful colloquial names as reefer, muggles, Indian, hey,

348
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Speaker 3: hot hay, and weed.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, I gotta stop out our drama for a second.

350
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Speaker 2: Those who love the names for pot, like there are

351
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Speaker 2: so many silly names for pot, but the pot Yeah, hot, Hey,

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Speaker 2: I have never ever heard.

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Speaker 3: I heard that, But I'm gonna go down to the

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Speaker 3: harbor side dispensary and ask for some hot Hey.

355
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Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys got the good Indian Hey, I don't

356
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Speaker 2: want that Indian head. I mean, like dormay, I'm always

357
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,439
Speaker 2: asking for like, you guys got any acapucu gold? How

358
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,440
Speaker 2: about the Mawi? They're like starts, not the nineteen seventies.

359
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,760
Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, man, you guys got me that.

360
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 3: I'm really really impressed with myself for reading this without

361
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:04,879
Speaker 3: my glasses on.

362
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,399
Speaker 2: Doing really well. All right, I got one more for

363
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Speaker 2: you here you go.

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Speaker 3: Okay, mister Anslinger.

365
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Speaker 2: I want to be certain what this is. Is this

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Speaker 2: the same weed that grows wild in some of our

367
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Speaker 2: western states, which is sometimes called the loco weed.

368
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,680
Speaker 3: No, sir, that is another family.

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Speaker 2: That is also a harriful drug producing weed.

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Speaker 3: Is it not? Not? To my knowledge, it is not

371
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Speaker 3: used by humans.

372
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,639
Speaker 2: In what particular sections? Does this weed grow wild.

373
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Speaker 3: In almost every state in the Union today?

374
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 2: Why are you describing as a plant which has is

375
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Speaker 2: a rather large flower, No.

376
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Speaker 3: Sir, a very small flower.

377
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Speaker 2: It is not Indian help.

378
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,680
Speaker 3: It is Indian help. We have some specimens here when.

379
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Speaker 2: Was this brought to your attention as being a menace among.

380
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Speaker 3: Our own people about ten years ago?

381
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,719
Speaker 2: Why did you wait until on nineteen thirty seven to

382
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 2: bring in a recommendation of this.

383
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,639
Speaker 3: Con Ten years ago, we only heard about it throughout

384
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,639
Speaker 3: the Southwest. It's only in the last few years that

385
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 3: it's become a national menace. It has grown like wildfire,

386
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,520
Speaker 3: but it has only become a national menace in the

387
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 3: last three years.

388
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 2: So you can kind of hear the tones, right, He's

389
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,480
Speaker 2: having to sell it to these guys. They want to

390
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 2: believe them, but they're like, I'm not hearing it.

391
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,440
Speaker 3: Sir, I'm just a simple coak.

392
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're talking about flowers in Mexico.

393
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, Mexican fly And I love that. That one's not

394
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 3: for human like news. But he what the cows are

395
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:34,560
Speaker 3: out there?

396
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,679
Speaker 2: Well, there's actually not it. It's interesting you bring that

397
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 2: up because this is about there's a whole thing about

398
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,680
Speaker 2: hemp seeds being fed to birds, and Harry j Anslinger

399
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 2: was really doubtful that he was super dubious about feeding

400
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,120
Speaker 2: hempseeds to bird because this is what I'm talking about

401
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,879
Speaker 2: industrial hemp. There was a bunch of regulatory logistics that

402
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,159
Speaker 2: had to be worked out if they were going to

403
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,120
Speaker 2: prohibit pot because they had industrial hemp, and all these

404
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,760
Speaker 2: farmers in Midwest and Pasific Northwest were like, wait, I

405
00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 2: grow that for fibers and for seed oil, and we

406
00:20:58,760 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 2: send it to China.

407
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Omega three, yes exactly.

408
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 2: So that just getting into that and he's like, no, no,

409
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,399
Speaker 2: kill all that right, So then they're like, well, what

410
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 2: about can we still sell it as bird feed? And

411
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,880
Speaker 2: they're like well. Here in the Conference on Cannabis Atiba

412
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 2: and the Treasury Building on January fourteenth, nineteen thirty seven,

413
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 2: Harry ja Anslinger gets called in to testify about all

414
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,120
Speaker 2: this new marijuana prohibition laws that they're drafting would pass

415
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 2: later in the year. So let's do some more drama.

416
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,919
Speaker 2: Elizabe Okay, yeah, you're Harry ja Anslinger again. Great, and

417
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 2: I will be the various commissioners producer d if you will.

418
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 2: But that doesn't satisfy commission Anslinger because potentially every seed

419
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:33,640
Speaker 2: is horrifle.

420
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 3: Our experience has been that in almost every large seizure made,

421
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 3: we've got a large quantity of seed from the defendant

422
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 3: for growing purposes.

423
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 2: What would happen if we proscribed the use of seed

424
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Speaker 2: for bird seed.

425
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Speaker 3: Doctor Munch told me it would stop the birds from singing.

426
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 2: Is help seed indispensable from birds sea? If Commission Anslinger

427
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 2: would agree to cut out bird seed, it would certainly

428
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 2: up the bill and enforcement.

429
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,399
Speaker 3: Uh can they prove the the birds need this food?

430
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 2: I just love that He's like, I don't even.

431
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 3: Want to feed these birds will stop singing they got worms?

432
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 3: But then how why aren't the birds getting jazzy?

433
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: Exactly right? He doesn't connect, Elizabeth, And you know this

434
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 2: guy does not care about bird song or anyway enough

435
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 2: about Harry j Anslinger and the irrational hatred of bird

436
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 2: seed and his racist war against pot. Because let's take

437
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 2: a little break. Okay, after this break, we're gonna get

438
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 2: into the crime with the bust of the jazz legend.

439
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:51,879
Speaker 2: My man friend of the show, Jean Crouper. Elizabeth, we're back. Hey,

440
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 2: sorry to have to lay all that drama in your

441
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 2: lap after cold read right, Spontaneous Theater is one of

442
00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 2: America's great biggots.

443
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 3: It was really great. I didn't really get a chance

444
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 3: to like workshop a void.

445
00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. Well, for the rest of this episode, you

446
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 2: will not have to embody any of America's great bigots.

447
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 3: Oh thank you.

448
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, next stop the swing era, right, and we get

449
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 2: to know my man, Jean Krupa. What do you know

450
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,320
Speaker 2: about Jen Crippy? You know you are you familiar with him?

451
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 2: Great drummer, right, yeah, Bennie Goodman's drummer. He was the

452
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,040
Speaker 2: man who played the drums on the big nineteen thirty

453
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 2: seven thirty eight hit, the biggest hit, Benny Goodman's biggest hit,

454
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 2: sing Sing Sing, yeah, right, and that's when it starts

455
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,639
Speaker 2: with the drums all going crazy exactly. Krupa was like

456
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 2: the first true celebrity drummers. I mean, there was Chick

457
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 2: Web before him. There were drummers who were known in

458
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 2: jazz and in music, but he was like inter like

459
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 2: nationally and internationally known.

460
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that man could swing.

461
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, yes, Elizabeth. Now, Krupa came right along

462
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,679
Speaker 2: right when the culture catches up to jazz, right when

463
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 2: jazz becomes like it's more. You know, it starts in

464
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 2: New Orleans and Storyville, but now by the thirties it's

465
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 2: it's gonna be in Carnegie Hall. Yeah, right, So he

466
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: basically invents what we can also think of his modern

467
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 2: rock drumming I mean like Keith Moon from The Who,

468
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,879
Speaker 2: John bonifinm led Zeppelin, Dave Grohl from Nirvana. None of

469
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: these guys would be who they are without like a

470
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:10,000
Speaker 2: Charlie Watts, the late Charlie Watts, thank you very much. Right.

471
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 2: So like although really hard playing and tight playing drummers,

472
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 2: the jazzy drummers, they all sing his praises right because

473
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 2: the guy looks single handedly his playing on sing sing

474
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 2: sing made the drum solo a serious thing of music,

475
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 2: right right.

476
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 3: There's there's a direct line to John Bonham in all

477
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 3: that way.

478
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly with the drum solo now, but man. Gene

479
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 2: Krupa was born Eugene Bertram Krupa on January fifteenth, nineteen

480
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: oh nine. Baby boy and a family of nine kids.

481
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 2: Raised in Chicago, proud Polish family in the classic move

482
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 2: from back in the day. Since he was the youngest

483
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 2: boy in a Catholic family, what did that mean? He

484
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 2: went off to college to become a priest. Yeah, so

485
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: after a year he decided he didn't want to be

486
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 2: a priest, he said. He became a professional musician. Sure,

487
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: his family loved that. Yeah, So specifically he became a

488
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 2: jazz drummer so that.

489
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 3: You see the battery even.

490
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 2: No one can see. Well, maybe that's good, honey. But

491
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 2: the guy, I mean Krupa, he had the rhythm in

492
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 2: him and he gotta let it out right. So he

493
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,360
Speaker 2: gigged around Chicago the nineteen twenties playing for like this

494
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 2: is the al Capone era Chicago gangsters or his audience

495
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: as well as it, you know, the hip and the

496
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 2: wealthy of Prohibition and then the working class out to

497
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 2: have a good time. So his early jazz influences were

498
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 2: men like Big Spider Beck. Also, he's like a perfect

499
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 2: example of the Chicago jazz sound at the time. Then

500
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: there's also other local guys like Tubby Hall and Zuddy Singleton.

501
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 2: Also not to mention Jimmy Condon and Baby Dots. Like,

502
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 2: what are up with these names?

503
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 3: I will your word for it.

504
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 2: I love jazz names like I love pot names. Right,

505
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: they're all the gress like brother Jack McDuff, that's one

506
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 2: of my favorite Groove Hall.

507
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 3: That's a guy name.

508
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, these are all jazz guys, like Illinois Jack Kat

509
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: cannonball Adderly Dizzy Gillespie is my favorite though, was Rossan

510
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,360
Speaker 2: Roland Kirk. You know, he had a dream. His name

511
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: is Roland Kirk, right, and he has this dream that

512
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 2: he's playing before a crowd a huge stadium and they're

513
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: all chanuting Rassan Raissan Raissan. After he is like triumphant

514
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 2: solo and he's like, oh man, this is awesome. I

515
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,719
Speaker 2: love this. I love these people. He wakes up. He

516
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,439
Speaker 2: calls his manager and he goes, all right, how do

517
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: I legally change my name? And he tries to legally

518
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: change his name to Raissan and he does. He changes

519
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 2: his name to Rassan.

520
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't know that that's how he got his name, O.

521
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 2: Totally, he just had a dream decided I got to

522
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 2: change my name. So he does it. But then legally

523
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 2: he can't change his name and get his old royalties

524
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 2: in his name, so he then has to change his

525
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 2: name back, but he doesn't want to change it back,

526
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: so he changes his name to Roland Raissan Kirk or

527
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 2: Rassan Roland Kirk.

528
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 3: Interesting.

529
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that he has a dream, like it's

530
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 2: such a jazz story. So anyway back to the jazz.

531
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 2: Nineteen thirty four, Jean Croupa joins Benny Goodman's band. Right

532
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 2: the next year, in thirty five, he walks into a

533
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 2: recording studio, lays down his first tracks on Wax and

534
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,880
Speaker 2: first time with the band. Almost instantly, gen Krupa becomes

535
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 2: a star of the show. Yeah, first time people hear him, like,

536
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 2: who is that? His drums are just that differ.

537
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 3: It's not like anything else. Yeah, exactly that.

538
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 2: You love that. I mean, you're better with music than

539
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 2: I am. The sound of his drums were also something

540
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,199
Speaker 2: he did. As you said, nobody like him before he

541
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 2: played melodies on the drum skins.

542
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 3: Yeah.

543
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 2: They actually started making tunable drumskins because of him, right,

544
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 2: so you could make play more melodies. Yeah, that's how

545
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 2: good he was. He turned. Also, he was the guy

546
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: who made the standard drum kit after him. Everybody's like, oh,

547
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 2: that's the drum kit I want.

548
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 3: Like you look at like Fred Astaire. He was like

549
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: a Fred Astaire, Yes, percussionist, like you could see it

550
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 3: dancing like you think about like the hard driving drumming

551
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 3: of John bonham Er. I always think about Keith Moon

552
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 3: sounds like someone kind of falling tumbling down the stairs,

553
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 3: totally tripping around, but they getting up me I'm okay.

554
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 3: And so it's the the the animation, the life that

555
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 3: he brought into percussion is incredible because.

556
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 2: You're spot on. He was. He was wild. I mean,

557
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 2: that's really the word for it. H New York Times

558
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 2: quoted him in their obituary for him saying quote, I've

559
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 2: succeeded in doing two things. I made the drummer the

560
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 2: high priced guy, and I was able to project enough

561
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 2: so that people were drawn to jazz. He was just loud. Yeah, yeah,

562
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 2: So gene Gruppa wasn't just a phenomenal drummer. He was

563
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 2: also incredible once in a generation showman. I mean, the

564
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: guy like as you kind of pointed out, but he

565
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: would like sit hunched over his drums. He'd curl around them.

566
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 2: Right then as he starts playing, his hair comes loose,

567
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 2: and he was like a handsome guy, and the girls

568
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 2: would love, how do you have like a lock of

569
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 2: hair dangling over his eye and he's just dancing there, yea,

570
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 2: And more hair gets comes loose of like his like

571
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 2: real cream or whatever he's wearing. And then as he

572
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 2: continues playing his solo, his body would like unfurl like

573
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 2: a blossom. Right then all of a sudden, he's just

574
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: like stretching into taking like the sunlight, and he turns

575
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 2: in like kind of like how a flowers like in

576
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 2: this explosion of beauty, that'd be him, but with sound, right,

577
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 2: So then all of a sudden you got these arms

578
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 2: going everywhere and he just it was insane. It's just

579
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 2: like this visually and musically the same thing. They're both

580
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 2: going wild. Yeah, nobody had seen this exactly totally. So

581
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: by thineteen thirty eight, Benny Goodman's band is now the

582
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: biggest band in jazz. Everybody, they're the coolest. This is

583
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 2: bad the way jazz is the coolest music in America,

584
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 2: which makes it the coolest music going in the world.

585
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: So they're now the best band in the coolest music

586
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: in the world. That same year, in January nineteen thirty eight,

587
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 2: the band plays this epically famous show at Carnegie Hall. Right,

588
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 2: it's the peak of jazz's climb into the culture. And

589
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 2: like you know, I said, it starts in Storyville, New Orleans,

590
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 2: and then boom, they're in Carnegie Hall. Because the longest

591
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 2: time it was disparaged, it wasn't called real music. All

592
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 2: this stuff. Now it's on Carnegie Hall. Boom. From Noline

593
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: to Carnegiall. Now, after this incredible show, their version of

594
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: Sing Sing Sing, which if you can go to YouTube

595
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 2: and just watch Sing Sing Sing Live nineteen thirty eight.

596
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 2: Benny Goodman. Yeah, Carnegie Hall. It's incredible. But Benny Goodman

597
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: as a bandleader not exactly a warm and friendly guy. No, yeah,

598
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: not known to be uh what you call like not chunny? Yes, no,

599
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: not at all. So Krupo was like, you know what,

600
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: I'm a star, I'm out of here. He got tired

601
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 2: of button heads with him. Yeah, so he starts his

602
00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 2: own big band. He gets some good players, he gets

603
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: like Roy Eldrie, He gets a talented singer named Anita O'Day.

604
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 2: He starts touring. The people love it. They're like, oh,

605
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: this is great. They got rid of that dead way

606
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 2: Benny Goodman. No, not really. But the jazz hebcats and

607
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,160
Speaker 2: the swing kids they're still going kookie for his new band, right,

608
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,239
Speaker 2: because of course they did. He's Kroupa, right. It's like

609
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: so basically now as the thirties giveaway to the forties

610
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 2: and swing is still like the thing. Jane Croupa is

611
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: up there at the mountaintop Elizabeth and well you know

612
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 2: what that means. There's nowhere else to.

613
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 3: Go but where down, down, down.

614
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: Nineteen forty two, rolls around gravity, grabs hold of Jane Croupa,

615
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: gives a good, hard yank. Interestingly, he has a lot happened.

616
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 2: He gets divorced, he gets busted. It's a bad Actually

617
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 2: it's more than one calendar year, yeah, but it's one

618
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: year of time anyway. Interestingly, he gets busted in where

619
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: San Francisco. Oh you don't see that coming, he len

620
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: me brust it. He was like, oh, so in nineteen

621
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 2: forty two, it's the war years. So World War two

622
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: is kicking right. That means for a professional band leader

623
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: who's nowhere near the front, the war is still touching

624
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 2: him directly. Because for Krupa, he keeps losing musicians when

625
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 2: they get drafted, right, and he's also got it's really

626
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 2: hard to you know, keep people on the road. And

627
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: then the people show up and they're like desperate, and

628
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 2: people a little tense. There's fights, it's a lot, and

629
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 2: then like they're having to pay cabaret taxes and cabaret

630
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 2: card fees. It's like a whole deal. So he's constantly

631
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 2: having to replace band members as his primary challenge though,

632
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 2: but he's making it work. Nineteen forty two he's still

633
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: king a swing. Everybody is like excited to see him,

634
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 2: and like I'm trying to say, these kids, they would

635
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 2: stand hard for their jazz heroes, Like I just imagine

636
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: how they did for the Beatles. They do that for Krupa,

637
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 2: just a little bit less because they're wearing all wool.

638
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

639
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: So at this point, well, his manager, lose Zito, he

640
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,239
Speaker 2: tells this one story. He says, and I quote, no

641
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 2: one goes near Gene for at least half an hour

642
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: after stage show. He's completely exhausted and soaked to the skin.

643
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: So you make sure that nobody bothers the star. That's

644
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 2: how hard he plays. I mean, he's like playing like

645
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 2: like a like a hockey player sweats in a game, right,

646
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 2: But as a jazz drummer.

647
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 3: It's like us when it's hot and we don't have

648
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 3: any here in the studio.

649
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 2: And oh yeah because the noise, Yeah.

650
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 3: And then we're just wiped out. We're like, don't talk

651
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 3: to me.

652
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, give me my towel, my robe.

653
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just roll away down the hill.

654
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: Ye're just so so the manager, Louzito. He also had

655
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 2: another little story explaining like what Genekoper would do when

656
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: he came off the stage, just dripping exhausted, he said,

657
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 2: and I quote, as he comes off the stage, he's

658
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 2: wrapped in a heavy bathroom. In the dressing room, he undresses,

659
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: is wrapped in heavy bath towels, and he rests until

660
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 2: completely dry. Then he showers and gets a rub down,

661
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: nice routine everything. Typically, his wife Ethel would have traveled

662
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 2: with him. She liked to be near Gene. He liked

663
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 2: her to be near him, but but she didn't like

664
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 2: how his fans would go so crazy over him and

665
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 2: scream and at Cray Wild and so forth. She was

666
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 2: a more of a demure, quiet lady. And she also

667
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: liked to, you know, be there to keep the fans

668
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: from slipping into his hotel room. Yeah, right, well that anyway,

669
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 2: on that leg of the West Coast tour, she wasn't

670
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 2: there in San Francisco for the show. The couple was

671
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: separated at the time. Technically they had divorced the year earlier,

672
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 2: but they were still in contact and they're trying to

673
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 2: make it work. It was like, does this gotta take

674
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 2: Maybe we could like undo this, like they were like, anyway.

675
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 3: It's like the life of a jazz musician.

676
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 2: Who's blown up. Nobody sees the jazz drummer becoming world

677
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 2: famous stars. She's I married the drummer. I thought I

678
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 2: was good. So it basically also didn't help though, Like

679
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: when they were trying to get back together, when the

680
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: tabloids and fan magazines would catch him like out with

681
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 2: like the hottest starlet at the time, Lana Turner, snap

682
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 2: a photo put on the magazine. His wife's like, how

683
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: hard are you trying? Right?

684
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:49,120
Speaker 3: Exactly?

685
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,479
Speaker 2: So also, life on the road is not easy. I mean,

686
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to excuse any infidelities. I'm not talking

687
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: about that. That's between the married couple. I just been

688
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 2: life on the road, like eating, are you?

689
00:33:58,760 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 4: Yeah?

690
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: Exactly. Just Kroupa put it that life was so full

691
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 2: of greasy spoons and bad food you yearned for a

692
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 2: night off, and when you got it off, you get

693
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: so drunk you wouldn't know what was going on anyway.

694
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 2: I used to look at the lighted windows of the

695
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 2: houses and yearn for that same kind of life.

696
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

697
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,839
Speaker 2: Right, So this is not a guy who's going He's

698
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 2: crazy on stage but not crazy off stage, right, So

699
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,879
Speaker 2: KINDI he drinks hard, but he's like the guy who

700
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 2: contemplated becoming a priest, but he couldn't say no to

701
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: the siren calls, the jazz music. Right, So this is

702
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: not to say he wasn't living the good life, Elizabeth.

703
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 2: Krupa most certainly was when he rolled into the Saint

704
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 2: Francis Hotel in San Francisco. He brought with him three

705
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: full trunks of custom clothing. Oh wow, he had fifteen

706
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 2: different camel hair coats.

707
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 3: God, could you imagine this? I'd love to see them.

708
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 2: He had a vallet, you know, personal valet or vallet

709
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 2: to just to handle his clothing, dressing him and doing

710
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 2: the maintenance of his clothing. More on that personal vallette later,

711
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 2: but anyways, January twenty at nineteen forty three, this headline

712
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 2: breaks out dateline, San Francisco, January twentieth, nineteen forty three.

713
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 2: Jean Krupa is arrested. He denies he sent boy to

714
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: get marijuana cigarettes. Oh boy, yeah, so let's back out.

715
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: Let's not get ahead of ourselves in order to truly

716
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 2: dive into this scene. Elizabeth, I'd like you to close

717
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 2: your eyes, Lazic, like you to picture it. It's January eighteenth,

718
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: nineteen forty three. The world is at war headline scream

719
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 2: about German tank advances in Europe and the bloody trail

720
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: of the island topping marines in the Pacific. At the moment,

721
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 2: you don't want to think about all those horrors. Instead,

722
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 2: you just want to hear some hot, hot jazz from

723
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: the wildest band leader in the land, mister Jean Crouper.

724
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 2: At the moment, he's in San Francisco, which coincidentally is

725
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 2: where you work as a hat check girl at the

726
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 2: Golden Gate Theater, and you are beside yourself that right now,

727
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 2: Jean Crupa and his swing band are playing a week

728
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,560
Speaker 2: of shows at the Golden Gate Theater. You've watched breathlessly

729
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: night after night as the crowd rises to thunderous applause

730
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 2: when the show concludes with his climactic drum solo, and

731
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 2: tonight it was no different. As soon as the show

732
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 2: is over, the crowd erupts in tremendous applause, and you

733
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 2: watch the band leaders. He bounds off stage. He's so

734
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 2: wet with sweat, he looks like he just took a

735
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 2: shower in his clothes. He brushes past you where you

736
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 2: lurk backstage, and he wets your shoulder as he passes.

737
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 2: What a show he puts on, you think to yourself.

738
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 2: As Krupa brushes by, he gives you a friendly smile,

739
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 2: even though he looks exhausted. You turn and watch him go,

740
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 2: and that's when you spot the same suspicious men also

741
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,919
Speaker 2: lurking around backstage you saw earlier. There's now three of them.

742
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 2: They follow Krupa to his dressing room. The door opens,

743
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 2: he goes in, The three men go in, and his

744
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 2: personal valet follows them. All the door shuts. A moment passes,

745
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 2: then the door opens. You see the personal valet step out.

746
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 2: He looks around. He seems worried, but also a little confused.

747
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 2: He's young, perhaps out of his depth. He sees you

748
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: watching him, but you quickly look away, and then you

749
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 2: look back. When the dressing room door opens again, you

750
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,799
Speaker 2: spot Gene Krupa. He's now wearing a robe, but he's

751
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: passion faced. He looks like someone just told him he

752
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 2: has just days to live. He speaks with his personal

753
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: valet in whispered tones. You can't hear what they say,

754
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 2: but you do see the personal valet nod and then

755
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 2: turn to go in a rush. You watch as he

756
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: tries to slyly walk off backstage, pass the passers by.

757
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: You also spot the third suspicious man as he turns

758
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 2: and follows the kid out the stage door. That's when

759
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: you turn back, not wanting any trouble because with the

760
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: war on and all the reports of enemy saboteurs, you

761
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,280
Speaker 2: decide to mind your own business. These guys seem like Feds.

762
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 2: You go back to the hat check stand. Now the

763
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 2: show's o where people will want their hats and coats.

764
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 2: But you're still super curious what made Gene Crouple look

765
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 2: like his life just ended? Well, Elizabeth, Boom, there you go.

766
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 2: You just witnessed the first act of the bust of

767
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 2: Gene Krupa. After these messages, we will get back to

768
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:26,880
Speaker 2: see how justice plays out for the jazz man. Elizabeth,

769
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 2: how we swinging the jam on this one's sister, Claude?

770
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, I am digging it, daddy O.

771
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 2: Let's get back to it as we covered thanks to

772
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 2: William Randolph Hurst causing a nationwide moral panic about buddy cannabis,

773
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 2: which his paper's renamed marijuana to make it sound foreign

774
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 2: and scary in order for him to make profits selling

775
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 2: papers covering the moral panic while also protecting his profits

776
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 2: as a lumber baron.

777
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 3: In the transcript she had me read, I like, how

778
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 3: it's spelled of.

779
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, marijuana, so people would say it the j being

780
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 2: that's new to them, so they're like, just spell it

781
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 2: English style. Spell how you want people to say it.

782
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 2: So well, also I forgot that. Obviously there's Harry ja Anslinger.

783
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: We cannot forget about him, the nepotism higher who becomes

784
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 2: the first director of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, who

785
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,919
Speaker 2: then joins hers for the fight against pot and also

786
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,799
Speaker 2: adds in his flavor of racism. Right, So back to

787
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 2: the jazz age craziness. Now, obviously most of this is

788
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 2: aimed at the black jazz men, right, that's where they

789
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 2: really would like to bust, and they're having some success.

790
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: They've been the harassing. They're about to really drive Billie

791
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 2: Holiday absolutely into a hospital. So there's they're not just

792
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 2: focusing on him. But if they could get a cautionary

793
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 2: tale to show these white kids where the demon weed

794
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 2: will lead you, that would be ideal. Enter gene Krupa.

795
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 2: So the Federal narks basically they wanted to bust the

796
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 2: coolest men in the world. That's who the white jazz

797
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 2: men were, the jazz kids that they were trying to

798
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,240
Speaker 2: communicate with through the bust. So they're like, well, who's

799
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 2: the coolest him. So this author, David Solomon, he framed

800
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: in his book The Marijuana Papers, that the Bureau of Narcotics,

801
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,080
Speaker 2: the director Harry Janslinger, he used his position in government

802
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 2: and his authority as an expert in the field to

803
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 2: spread all sorts of wildly incorrect propaganda. But the American

804
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,279
Speaker 2: press were like, well, he's an expert, so they would

805
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 2: just eagerly and uncritically report his quotes, and so it

806
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 2: becomes the record. Then when you go to Congress, you

807
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,720
Speaker 2: can then quote yourself in the paper. Right, it's a cycle,

808
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 2: it's ridiculous. So they're reasonably repeating whatever he says about

809
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 2: satanically destructive drug right that I put that in the

810
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 2: paper should be capitalized satan. So anyway, basically the press

811
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 2: functioned at his megaphone. So that's how jazz music and

812
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 2: the craze, swing kids and musicians, they all get a

813
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 2: target on their backs because especially the man they revere

814
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 2: Gene Krupa, it's the antipop paranoia. Right, So as Solomon

815
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 2: puts it in his book, and I quote the American public,

816
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 2: fed by this steady stream of anti marijuana propaganda, had

817
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 2: reason to believe much of what it read. The evidence

818
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 2: was right before them. Swing music and its culture appeared

819
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 2: to embody all of the dangers of the drug published

820
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 2: in the press. One only had to listen to the

821
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 2: hot tom tom rhythms of Benny Goodman's sing, sing, sing,

822
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 2: or watch the uncontrolled antics of a jitterbug trucking on

823
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 2: the dance floor as proof that something had taken hold

824
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 2: of American youth. It was easy to blame the marijuana menace.

825
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 2: So there you go, that's the tone the marijuana menas.

826
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

827
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 2: Now, comically, the jazz guys are putting out songs that

828
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 2: they are like the Chant of the Weed, or there's

829
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 2: Texas Tea Party. There's another song called reefer Man. I mean,

830
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 2: so they're able to quote from these songs in the

831
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 2: newspaper and then use that to scare people with like

832
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 2: jazz is clearly the devil's own music.

833
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:40,959
Speaker 3: Yeah.

834
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 2: So, Elizabeth, the whispers were in the wind right those

835
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 2: who were listening, they knew the FEDS would eventually find

836
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 2: the perfect person to frame as their cautionary tale. In fact,

837
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 2: Downbeat magazine tried to warn the community in nineteen thirty eight.

838
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,800
Speaker 2: The magazine wrote, and I quote one of these days,

839
00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 2: say those close to the situation, the Federal Bureau of

840
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 2: Investigation will investigate the claim that the marijuana weed is

841
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 2: promiscuously used and smoked by players of swing music. The

842
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 2: idea that weed, which is supposed to have first been

843
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 2: taken hold of by low down musicians and Harlem dives,

844
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 2: is now spreading to the bigger bands, where instrumentalists now

845
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,320
Speaker 2: use it to emit the wild abandoned rhythms which comprise

846
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 2: swing music, is said to be arousing interest at Ja

847
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 2: Eggar Hoover's headquarters. Whether it is true or not, the

848
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 2: FBI is convinced that there is a good deal to

849
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 2: the rumors which they have heard, and they are planning

850
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 2: an investigation allegedly which may one day treat the US

851
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 2: to an expose which will rock the music world. It's

852
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 2: all over the place, all right, but it was kind

853
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 2: of a war, you do hear, though subtly always like

854
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 2: the Harlem Dives. Yeah, the abandoned rhythms of like jungle

855
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 2: rhythms from the dark part of Africa, you know, right. Anyway,

856
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: finally they can get their target. The Fateful Day comes

857
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 2: five years later, nineteen forty three, in the Golden Gate

858
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 2: Theater in San Francisco. What's interesting to me is how

859
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 2: when Jan Croupa gets popped for pot possession, he's arrested

860
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 2: by federal agents. Yeah, and then he's not brought up

861
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 2: on federal charges. Instead, he's handed over to the San

862
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: Francisco police like they're here. Really, you make a show

863
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 2: of him. We know, you guys rough people up. Yeah.

864
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 2: San Franisco police at the time were known for being

865
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 2: head beaters.

866
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 3: That's at the same time that they were busting a

867
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 3: little bit later where they busted William Biwalda for shaking

868
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 3: the Big Gold's hand exactly.

869
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 2: The San Francisco police were known as like some tough

870
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 2: Irish cops at this point. Yeah, so they didn't go

871
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 2: for this nonsense. Well you're smoking the pot, hey, you

872
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 2: know so.

873
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

874
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 2: The San Francisco press was only also happy to help so,

875
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: because make no mistake, Jean Crupa getting busted for pot

876
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 2: was big news in nineteen forty three.

877
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 3: He got a Hurst paper up in there.

878
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: Yes you do, thank you very much. San Francisco Examiner

879
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 2: reported on the arrival of Jean Croupa in town on

880
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,319
Speaker 2: January fourteenth. There's plenty of excitement going on at the

881
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 2: Golden Gate. Jean Crupa's band is hitting the deck and

882
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 2: it hits like lightning. That's nineteen forty three, January fourteenth.

883
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 2: They also wanted to like hype this rare showman, so

884
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 2: the Hearst newspaper puts in glowing terms, telsol headed drummer Krupa,

885
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 2: who sits like an affable spider in his web of drums,

886
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 2: making his two arms act like six, is an authentic

887
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 2: jazz artist, which is a rare thing for a white musician.

888
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 2: Oh it's little tail in that one. Now. The smash

889
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 2: cut to one week later, January twenty first, the same

890
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 2: Hurst newspaper, San Franciso Examiner gleefully reports on the front

891
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 2: page with a quote Gene Krupa linked to dope case.

892
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 2: So they're making the profits on the way up and

893
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: the way it. Don't really care exactly. The opening sentence

894
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 2: gets right to it quote idol of countless young jitterbugs

895
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 2: throughout the nation. Gene Krupa noted swing drummer and bandleader

896
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 2: was arrested here last night by federal narcotics agents on

897
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 2: charges of contributing to the delinquency of a minor by

898
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 2: permitting a seventeen year old boy to transport narcotic Yeah,

899
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 2: so they really have. They got a story that's going

900
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 2: to sell some papers at this point. Right. So the

901
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,520
Speaker 2: other new paper of this city, the major paper of

902
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 2: the city, San Francisco Chronicle, the one you like, I

903
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 2: went with a slightly more prosaic headline. They went with

904
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 2: Gene Kruppa arrested here in juvenile dope case. You don't

905
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 2: even quite know what's going on in that headline is

906
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,959
Speaker 2: the dope case? Young? Are we waiting for the dope

907
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 2: case to mature? So, Elizabeth, back then there was no

908
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,240
Speaker 2: different than today. The ugly allegations of drugs and kids

909
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,400
Speaker 2: and the devil's own music made this small time bust

910
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 2: into a big time national news story. Everyone got to

911
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 2: speculate what's Gene Grupa doing with kids in San Francisco

912
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:42,439
Speaker 2: and drugs? So most of the stories are like dope

913
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 2: and delinquency, right, That's what they really pushed. So what

914
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,240
Speaker 2: doesn't get widely reported is that there are no charges

915
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 2: against gen Krupa, for possession of narcotics or for drug use,

916
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 2: any of that. It's just delinquency of a minor, which

917
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 2: is a much uglier term in the press. So rather

918
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,439
Speaker 2: than read some more moral panic news stories, Elizabeth, let's

919
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: hear Gene Croupa's version of It's much better than the

920
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: other nonsense. Here's a Croupa tells the story of his

921
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 2: potbust and how his young valete got him pinched. And

922
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 2: I quote, by then, I was a glamour boy, fifteen

923
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,919
Speaker 2: camel hair coats, three trunks around me all the time.

924
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,280
Speaker 2: He couldn't think what to get me. Finally he thought, gee,

925
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 2: I'll get Jean some grass. At that time, California was

926
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 2: hot as a pistol. You could park your car for

927
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: a bottle of beerry get arrested. So we had a

928
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 2: rough time getting the stuff. He probably shot his mouth

929
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,399
Speaker 2: off a little. I'm getting this for the greatest guy

930
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 2: in the world, Gene Croupa. So the kid was going

931
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 2: around La the city they were, and before they went

932
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 2: to San Francisco, and he was trying to get pot

933
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 2: for Jean Crupa, because that's where the kid got hired,

934
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 2: was in La just before they came to San Francisco

935
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 2: because it is like basically his first day on the job.

936
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 2: So I'll tell you more about him in a second.

937
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 2: The rest of the story from Croupa we will get

938
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 2: from his lawyer. And this is how the lawyer wrote

939
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 2: in his memoir years later. He says, this is Krupa's talk,

940
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 2: and I quote, I wouldn't call you master. I don't

941
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: know a damn thing about this caper. First time I

942
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 2: pick up on the fact it's marijuana that's got them

943
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,480
Speaker 2: bugged is when the fuzz laid the story on me

944
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 2: after they dropped the net on Johnny. They tell me

945
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 2: he picked up the muggles in my suite, and I

946
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 2: come all un zipped. That's a scene. I don't dig.

947
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 2: Jake te goofballs, Benny all that kind of funny quick energy.

948
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 2: I don't need it. I got me. That's plenty. If

949
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 2: the kid had muggles, I sure don't know where he

950
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 2: got it.

951
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's like, excuse me, Stewardess, I speak jazz, right,

952
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 3: So goofballs.

953
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 2: What's the real story here? Like, just who was his

954
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 2: personal valet? Was he legit? Was he a fed plant

955
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 2: there to get.

956
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 3: Crippa stitched out a hapless intern.

957
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: Was he a hapless intern? Good read kid? So Kripa,

958
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 2: as I said, barely knew him. His name was John Patiochos.

959
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 2: He was twenty years old. He was one of those

960
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,240
Speaker 2: jitterbug kids. He lived for swing music. Yeah, he played

961
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 2: drums himself. He idolized Krupa. Wait, he was twenty twenty

962
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 2: years old, sad at the seventeen. Yes, so he was

963
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: not a minor. There was no delinquency of a minor.

964
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 2: So he graduated high school back in New Bedford, Massachusetts.

965
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 2: And then he like he was all about that jazz, right,

966
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 2: So he jitterbugged his way over to New York. And

967
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 2: then he was like, oh, I gotta go high tail

968
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 2: on my way over to Chicago. And then he kept,

969
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: you know, like swing bop dancing over to La working

970
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 2: as an usher at the Palladium Theater in La. This

971
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,760
Speaker 2: excitable kid strikes up a friendship with Krupa's personal valet,

972
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: who's also a young man. And while the band is

973
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: playing a series of shows there like two weeks of shows, right,

974
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 2: So at this point World War two is kicking right,

975
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 2: It's in full bloody flourished.

976
00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 3: The whole show in LA at this time at.

977
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 2: The Palladium Theater. It's a crazy right be amazing swing.

978
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 2: So Krupa's personal vallet. He also said, young man, he

979
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 2: gets drafted, and he gets his drafted, he's like oh,

980
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 2: so he's like hits. He's buddied up with this kid,

981
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 2: John patiocause he's like, hey, kid, you want to be

982
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: the valet. So the kid gets hired in LA and

983
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 2: he takes the trip north with them to San Francisco.

984
00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 2: After his first thing is trying to get this pot

985
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: for and then he gets it in an envelope and

986
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 2: he like shoves it in his jacket and then when

987
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:05,840
Speaker 2: the bus happens, he's like, oh, by the way, remember

988
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 2: that pot I put in your jacket. And that's what

989
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,080
Speaker 2: they were whispering about when you saw them. He was

990
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 2: giving them. They like, hey, there's pot in your sad

991
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 2: the Feds should probably not see that. He gets really

992
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,720
Speaker 2: stitched up by so yeah. Anyway, so what's this kid's

993
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 2: story in all this?

994
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 4: Right?

995
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 2: As the personal like the gopher for the band leader,

996
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 2: he's just hanging around waiting for Krupa to have some

997
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 2: need for him. That's his job, so doing that he's

998
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 2: hanging around. He sees these suspicious men also there at

999
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: the Golden Gate Theater, and it turns out they are

1000
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 2: Federal narks and they're the ones who ended up busting

1001
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 2: him because they're also watching this kid, so he's watching

1002
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,200
Speaker 2: them there watching him. The way the kid tells it,

1003
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 2: the story goes as Jane came off the stage soaking

1004
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 2: wet as usual, these three men walked over to him

1005
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 2: and they said they wanted to talk to him. They

1006
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 2: walked Gene into his dressing room and I walked right

1007
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 2: after them. I felt something was wrong. They told me

1008
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,760
Speaker 2: to leave the room. I looked at Gene, who nodded approval,

1009
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,440
Speaker 2: but he had a very particular expression on his face.

1010
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: I felt then that something was gonna happen. I waited

1011
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 2: outside the dressing room for quite a while. Jane finally

1012
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 2: came out, pale as a ghost and still soaking wet,

1013
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 2: although he still had his robe on. He was all

1014
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 2: shaken up and excited. He motioned to me to go

1015
00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: with him, and now I was all excited myself. So

1016
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 2: we started to walk toward the washroom, and Jeane seemed

1017
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,720
Speaker 2: unable to talk at first, but finally he said to me, Johnny,

1018
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 2: I want you to do something for me, and before

1019
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 2: he could say another word, they broke up the conversation.

1020
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 2: And then they walked Jane back to his dressing room

1021
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 2: and they left me standing there alone. So what does

1022
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:38,280
Speaker 2: the kid do. He knows he needs to do something

1023
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 2: for his drum hero, right, and may remember he's an excitable,

1024
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 2: jitterbug kid he is. So he's got these g men

1025
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 2: threatening his heroes. He's gonna save his hero. So he decides,

1026
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go save him from the FED. So back

1027
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 2: to Patioko's right then and there, I thought, I know

1028
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 2: what Gene wanted me to do. He was a nice

1029
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 2: guy and I wanted to help him. So I ran

1030
00:50:56,239 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 2: as fast as I could back to the hotel, and

1031
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 2: I tried to get Frank Vinier, groups manager on the phone,

1032
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,560
Speaker 2: but it was busy. I finally got a bell hop

1033
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 2: to let me in, and I took an envelope of

1034
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 2: cigarettes out of the pocket of his coat in the

1035
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 2: closet and left the room. Then I remembered that there

1036
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:12,840
Speaker 2: were also a few cigarettes in a drawer on the

1037
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 2: writing desk, so I returned to the room and I

1038
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 2: took those cigarettes out of the drawer and I put

1039
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 2: them in the envelope and I left the room. And

1040
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 2: then that's where he walked out of Jean Croupa's hotel

1041
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 2: room and right into the arms of the waiting FED

1042
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:26,799
Speaker 2: who had followed him out of the Golden Gate theater.

1043
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 2: Because this kid was so jitter batic excitable, he didn't

1044
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 2: even think that the FED might fight out.

1045
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, just watch him. It's a little suspicious that, like

1046
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 3: they whisper to each other, and then he runs off exactly, so.

1047
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 2: One of the Feds. They take him back now and

1048
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,280
Speaker 2: to the other FEDS, and this kid, the kid will cooperate,

1049
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 2: He will not talk to them, right, So back to Patioko's.

1050
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 2: After quite a while trying to make me say something,

1051
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 2: the agents took me over to their office alone. There

1052
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 2: they really gave me the works. They pushed me around

1053
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,919
Speaker 2: and threatened to hit me with a blackjack and beat

1054
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,440
Speaker 2: me up if I still refused to talk, and furthermore,

1055
00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 2: would put me in jail for prize of the cigarettes.

1056
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:03,879
Speaker 2: So when the kid won't betray as jazz Man hero,

1057
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 2: the Caps then trick him by saying it wouldn't make

1058
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 2: any difference to Jane because he would be in exactly

1059
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 2: the same trouble anyway if I didn't say anything. So

1060
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,600
Speaker 2: the kid signs a confession that Jeane Crupa asked him

1061
00:52:14,640 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 2: to go to his hotel room and grab his pot

1062
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,839
Speaker 2: and bring it back to him, and that's that that

1063
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 2: the Krupa then had made the kid his drug mule. Yeah,

1064
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 2: the charges are flimsy as hell, right, but they sound

1065
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: terrible in the press. So the trial start. San Francisco

1066
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 2: DA decides to make it a show trial and get

1067
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 2: a little fame for himself. He throws the law book

1068
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 2: at Krupa, right, but he has one problem. Star witness

1069
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 2: is missing. Pattiocos disappears. He does he won't testify against Crupa.

1070
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,280
Speaker 3: We ran the ran the risk.

1071
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 2: Of snitch and signing a confession. So is what they do?

1072
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 2: They go in and just read the confession. Yeah, exactly

1073
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 2: so anyway, So both sides, though alleged that the other

1074
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,919
Speaker 2: side is hiding him and have bribed him to leave town.

1075
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 2: Everyone's like, you you got rid of him. So because

1076
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 2: they both I don't know things, somehow he's gonna help

1077
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 2: them make their case. So you know what, Elizabeth, I

1078
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 2: got a little more fun for you because here, I

1079
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 2: would like you to be a federal agent on the

1080
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 2: witness stand. I'll be Leslie Gillen, the assistant DA who's

1081
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 2: prosecuting Gene Krupa. Okay, so are you ready? Is it

1082
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:20,240
Speaker 2: common knowledge that marijuana is frequently used because of its

1083
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 2: definite propensity for distorting time by so called hot musicians

1084
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 2: Jazz musicians is, and that is so they can beat

1085
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 2: the drums or play a cornett or trombone without feeling

1086
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 2: the effect of doing it right. I'm sorry, but I

1087
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 2: just love asking a narc who's barely knowledgeable at the

1088
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:45,439
Speaker 2: interiority of jazz drummers and coronet players, Like when Big

1089
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 2: Spiderbeck is on the jazz stand, what does he think?

1090
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 2: I mean?

1091
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 4: Like?

1092
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 5: What is this kind?

1093
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 2: So Krupa takes the witness stand and the ADA grills

1094
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: the pot fueled drummer right and asking him how he

1095
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 2: makes his rhythms hit and sing and Crupa then says

1096
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 2: from the witness stand, a man's ab to beat his

1097
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 2: drums faster than someone else's because he has developed his

1098
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 2: technique to a higher point, and it is easier to

1099
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 2: play fast than it is for someone to play slow.

1100
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,239
Speaker 2: If I'm able to play faster than someone else. It

1101
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 2: is because I have studied it and developed my technique.

1102
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 2: I mean, it's very very obvious. Right, That's the same

1103
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 2: way I can paint houses faster. But then he added,

1104
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 2: in his opinion, the only whack drummers are the ones

1105
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 2: who did rely on drugs and to get loose. As

1106
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: Croup would put it, it might be true of hot

1107
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 2: bands playing in dives, but that would be impossible for

1108
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 2: members of a prominent band to habitually use marijuana in

1109
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 2: view of the split second timing on radio and the

1110
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 2: need for self possession on the stage. Yeah. So he's

1111
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 2: basically saying like, I gotta be too cool for school

1112
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 2: for that kind of Yeah.

1113
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 3: I gotta have my wits about me.

1114
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Croup also emphasized that, in his opinion, only

1115
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 2: drummers in small numbers the failures, all of them used

1116
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:55,719
Speaker 2: the weed. Right, But then he admitted that he was

1117
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 2: somebody who used the later in its test, somebody's like that,

1118
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,320
Speaker 2: I also who was the weed? I did smoke the pot,

1119
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 2: and so they got him, the trial concludes, despite the

1120
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 2: star witness never appearing in court. Elizabeth, what do you

1121
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,800
Speaker 2: think the trial verdict was guilty? Yes. On June thirtieth,

1122
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,280
Speaker 2: nineteen forty three, a jury of his peers find Krupa

1123
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 2: guilty of the delinquency of a minor. He's sentenced to

1124
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 2: one to six years in San Quentin State Prison. What yes,

1125
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 2: I told you morel panic, you're gonna You're not gonna,

1126
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 2: You're not gonna scare people with the one to six.

1127
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 3: Years twenty year old miner.

1128
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So because the kid's gone, they can't confirm

1129
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,640
Speaker 2: the age. So at this point he thought, man, my

1130
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:35,320
Speaker 2: career is over, Dunzo daddy.

1131
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:35,879
Speaker 3: Oh yeah.

1132
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 2: But his lawyer is like, I can feel the sentence.

1133
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 2: So headlines are a meanwhile announcing that there's been a

1134
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 2: development in the case. Like a month later, the missing

1135
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,959
Speaker 2: star witness the Jitterbug Kid, the personal valet John Patiokos

1136
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 2: is found alive and well. Oh in Los Angeles. FBI

1137
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 2: found the kid because why he was on the lamb

1138
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 2: from selective service. He'd gotten his draft car and cut.

1139
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,799
Speaker 2: That's what he didn't want to get drafted off to war.

1140
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 2: So it seemed like this would help Crooper's appeal because

1141
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:05,320
Speaker 2: now they can confirm he is not a minor, because

1142
00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 2: if he's old enough to go to war. He's not

1143
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,760
Speaker 2: a miner. So in the meantime, Cruper works with his lawyer,

1144
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 2: who he thinks he's in good hands because it's Howard

1145
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 2: Hughes's lawyer, it's Errol Flynn's lawyer. He's like, I want

1146
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 2: to Flynn right, So Nope, doesn't happen. He appeals his case.

1147
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 2: All in all, Kroupa spends eighty four days in San

1148
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 2: Francisco County jail. What but he never gets sent to

1149
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,520
Speaker 2: San Quentin because after enough time passes, people feel like, Okay,

1150
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,320
Speaker 2: we got what we wanted. We scared everybody. He doesn't

1151
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 2: really matter. We got the headlines we got. So as

1152
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 2: he waited to hear his fate on the state charges,

1153
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 2: his fellow jazz men all rallied around Krupa. In fact,

1154
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,840
Speaker 2: even though he'd split from Benny Goodman and because of

1155
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 2: all the personal tensions, Goodman reaches out to Krupa while

1156
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 2: he's down and the two get back together and they

1157
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,400
Speaker 2: play their first show together in six years. Yeah. So,

1158
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 2: in the end, the pot Buss was a good thing

1159
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 2: for jazz music. It brought Crouper and Benny go back together,

1160
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 2: and it eventually helped Crooper rebuild his career, and then

1161
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,239
Speaker 2: the FEDS they couldn't stop the jazz bab. So now

1162
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 2: if you're wondering the unlucky jitterbug personal valet John Patios,

1163
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 2: he wasn't able to continue dodging the draft. Once the

1164
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 2: FBI caught him, they threw him in the service, They

1165
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 2: sent him off to war, and he survived as a

1166
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 2: medical coreman. He was basically like a like a CEO.

1167
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 2: I was like, I'll heal people. I ain't shooting now,

1168
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 2: So what's a ridiculous rug? Take away?

1169
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 3: My takeaway is every time we talk about like the

1170
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 3: how villainized marijuana is, it's so frustrating, you know, because

1171
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 3: it's like, I know, nothing is completely harmless, but when

1172
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 3: I look at like the damage that like alcohol does

1173
00:57:43,320 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 3: versus which is just you know, go for it according

1174
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 3: to everybody, versus weed. And this this misnomber of how

1175
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 3: people are, you know that they act like it's this stimulant,

1176
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 3: like it's a PCP.

1177
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 2: Or like you don't know what it is. It's whatever

1178
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 2: they imagine people what they imagine. They have no experience

1179
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 2: of the reality, so they're like, oh, it turns people

1180
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 2: into these sex crazed lunatics who want to sleep all

1181
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 2: the time, Like, which is it, which is you're doing everything?

1182
00:58:08,840 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 2: You have them doing everything.

1183
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 3: And then I don't know. I just kind of feel

1184
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 3: like if you can't really overdose on something and like,

1185
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 3: you know, just let people do what they want.

1186
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 2: Everything's a poison. The dose makes the poison exactly thing.

1187
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 2: You can kill someone with water, So there's no such

1188
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 2: thing as a real true poison. It's how you use something,

1189
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 2: how much you use. So with this I have the

1190
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 2: same thing, which is I don't like to legislate morality.

1191
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 2: I'm like, if a person wants to smoke pot, let

1192
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 2: them and then if it doesn't work out for them,

1193
00:58:34,920 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 2: we can figure that part out. But like, if it's

1194
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,920
Speaker 2: not impairing their decisions where they're out there like slaughtering

1195
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 2: people because they're on the drugs, then I don't have

1196
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 2: a problem with it. Then I wish people could be

1197
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,880
Speaker 2: more grown up. And we still see the need the

1198
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 2: desire to do prohibition, like, no, stop it, I'm gonna

1199
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 2: tell you what to do because that ever worked. No,

1200
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 2: it hasn't. So we have tons of centuries of history,

1201
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 2: yet we still go this time it's gonna work well

1202
00:58:57,120 --> 00:58:57,479
Speaker 2: and we.

1203
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 3: Think about like the dangers of stuff is like you know,

1204
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 3: under the influence of things. But if we had like

1205
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 3: walkable cities with lots of third places, it would be

1206
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 3: a non issue totally.

1207
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 2: But also, how about this, it's the responsibility of the driver. Yeah,

1208
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 2: it's just saying like if they took too much cold

1209
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 2: medicine and tell you it's the dose. So it's not

1210
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 2: the pot that's the problem. It's the person making bad

1211
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 2: choices and then driving, because they can make a bad

1212
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 2: choice with anything. The pot isn't the problem. It's the

1213
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 2: person making the.

1214
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 3: Choice about the choices, the choices exactly.

1215
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,760
Speaker 2: Anyway I'm doing that. I'm getting off this damn soap

1216
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 2: box because it's not ridiculous. Elizabe, are you the mood

1217
00:59:32,360 --> 00:59:32,919
Speaker 2: for a talk back?

1218
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,240
Speaker 3: I am always in the mood for a talkback?

1219
00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:45,480
Speaker 2: Can you favor us one? Oh my god, I went.

1220
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 4: Jee Elizabeth and Zaren. I want you to close your

1221
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 4: eyes and picture it. You are eighteen years old. You

1222
00:59:56,760 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 4: were raised in a conservative Christian household. You weren't shel

1223
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 4: third from the media or anything, but you've certainly not

1224
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 4: had a lot of personal, tangible life experiences, and you

1225
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 4: are traveling abroad for the first time with your mom

1226
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 4: in Paris, and you're looking for the SoC de Cour

1227
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 4: and you get off at the wrong metro station, which

1228
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 4: is fine. You're in a little bit of a sketchy neighborhood,

1229
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 4: actually a very sketchy neighborhood, but you just figure.

1230
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 2: I'll just walk up the hill.

1231
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:24,880
Speaker 4: Fine eventually, and you leave the station and you run

1232
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 4: into a very handsome man right outside of the fence

1233
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 4: who is talking at you, yelling kind of but smiling friendly,

1234
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 4: yelling rapid French, and you have no idea what he's

1235
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:37,280
Speaker 4: saying because you're a product of the American education system

1236
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 4: and you know a little Spanish and basically just the

1237
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 4: numbers and no French at all. So you say I'm sorry,

1238
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:46,600
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, and he says, oh English. You say yes,

1239
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 4: and he says, uh, officer, police officers, a police officer,

1240
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 4: and he points to the train and you say what, no,

1241
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 4: I don't think so, and he says, thank you, messi,

1242
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 4: and then he scales the fence behind you, jumps off

1243
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 4: the turnstile, and jumps onto the train and you are

1244
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:07,040
Speaker 4: completely bewildered while your mom stands next to you, laughing hysterically.

1245
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 4: Saying that you've just ate it and about someone running

1246
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 4: from the police.

1247
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 3: But hey, you were very helpful.

1248
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 2: Of your little I don't think so.

1249
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 4: And then you proceed to get roasted about that for

1250
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 4: the next decade of your life. That's it, Hope, that

1251
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 4: was a vivid for you.

1252
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 3: I was there that eating in a bedding. That's like

1253
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 3: the best kind of vacation activity.

1254
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 2: Totally. You're in Paris and you can get in a

1255
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 2: little area to come on.

1256
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's people pay a lot of money to be

1257
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 3: able to do that.

1258
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:43,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, forget an escape room, help someone escape. Well. As always,

1259
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 2: you can find us online a Ridiculous Crime on social media.

1260
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 2: Got a look around and we have the account Ridiculous

1261
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:53,440
Speaker 2: Crime Pod on YouTube. Go check it out. They're awesome,

1262
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:57,280
Speaker 2: and we have our website, ridiculous Crime dot com. I

1263
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 2: believe we just won What was it? E Magazine's most

1264
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 2: excited What was it? I forget the wording, the new

1265
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 2: the book they were most excited to read this summer.

1266
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:12,800
Speaker 3: E Entertainment Television's Hey, have you read this book? It's amazing,

1267
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 3: you should read it.

1268
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 2: Thank you. It was such a long award going to

1269
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 2: be people are never going to remember this yeah, well, anyway,

1270
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 2: check out the website and if emails if you like

1271
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 2: a Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com. As always, we

1272
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 2: will catch you next crime. Thanks for listening. Ridiculous Crime

1273
01:02:36,120 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 2: is hosted by Elizabeth Dutton That's her and Zarah Burnette

1274
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Speaker 2: that's him. That's produced and edited by Mose Allison's piano teacher,

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Speaker 2: Dave Cusi and starring Annaly's Rucker As who did research

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Speaker 2: is by Betty Carter fan club president Marissa Brown. Our

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Speaker 2: theme song is by Jack t Garden's main man, Thomas

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Speaker 2: Lee and Travis They called him Jango Dutton. The host

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Speaker 2: wardrobe provided by Botany five hundred, guest tarn maker by

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Speaker 2: Sparkleshow and We Stood on Videos. Executive producers are Ben

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Speaker 2: One Day, Sunra woke up and went hold In and

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Speaker 2: Nol Please don't call me Downtown, Julie grow.

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Speaker 1: We g.

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Speaker 4: Cry, say it one more time We cry.

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts.

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Speaker 1: My heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.