WEBVTT - How to Build the Ultimate Theme Park 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:04.840 Guess what, Mango, what's that Will? I'm going to Dollywood? 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.600 You're what? I'm going to Dollywood. Our family was at 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:11.079 this event last week, and we want a trip to 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:14.960 freaking Dollywood. I feel like that Powerball winner from last week. 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:17.160 And I do need to warrny about this. I may 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:19.239 never come back to work again, so you've got to 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:21.959 tell me what happens to Dollywood. I actually have no idea. 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:24.800 That's part of why I'm so excited. I mean, of 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:26.480 course I've heard of it. I grew up a few 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:28.880 hours away from it, but you know, other than knowing 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:30.960 that one of the co owners is Dolly Parton and 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:33.320 she's great, and and then it's in this really pretty 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:36.760 area of Tennessee, I know nothing about it. And I'm 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:39.840 actually intentionally avoiding any information about it because I wanted 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.479 to show up and be completely surprised. Well, I do 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.760 have one spoiler for you, and this is something I 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:47.519 remember from reading about it a a long time ago. And 0:00:47.560 --> 0:00:51.120 in the Chasing Rainbow section, Uh, they have this autograph 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:54.920 picture from Jonathan Taylor Thomas, and I think you read 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.880 something like you are so very special, how sweet? I know. 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.080 I love that he gave her that affirmation, but I 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:02.959 definitely want you to report back. I want to hear 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.360 what your kids think about it. I definitely will. But 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:07.399 winning this trip felt like a sign to me, you 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:09.240 know that it was time to do this episode on 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.680 the history and philosophy of theme parks. And we've been 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:14.000 talking about doing this for a while now, so let's 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:35.640 get started. Hey there, podcast listeners, Welcome to Part Time Genius. 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:37.920 I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.639 good friend Man Guesh Ticketer and the man making funny 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.120 faces at us through the soundproof glasses, our friend and 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:47.200 producer Tristan McNeil. And today we're talking theme parks, all 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.200 the science and imagination and you know, even the philosophy 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:53.440 that goes into designing and building and running theme parks. 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:55.240 So we thought it'd be fun to dig into some 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.720 of the deep thinking behind one of the world's favorite 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.760 forms of escapism. We've also got some great guests on 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:02.720 the line to to help us talk about that. Now, 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.160 who's joining us today, Meg, Yeah, to Today we'll be 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.640 talking to David Younger, author of the new book Theme 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.280 Park Design and the Art of them Entertainment. David's guide 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.160 covers every aspect of the theme park industry, including interviews 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.200 with theme park legends and Disney Imagine. Years will also 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.280 be talking with a couple of theme park enthsists who've 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:21.440 made it their life's work to chronicle all the going 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:23.880 on at their favorite parks. Very cool. Alright, so we're 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:25.840 gonna dive in in just a minute. But before we 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:27.959 do that, we've heard from so many of you by 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:30.960 email or on Facebook or Twitter, and even on our 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.240 seven Fact hotline, and many of you have asked if 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.160 you can play one of our ridiculous quizzes. So here's 0:02:37.160 --> 0:02:39.280 what we want you to do. Email us at Part 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:42.040 Time Genius at how Stuff Works dot com or call 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.399 us on the Fact hot line one eight four four 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.079 pt Genius and tell us why we should have you 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.320 on to play a quiz. Now, be sure to tell 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.960 us something interesting, of course, a true interesting fact about yourself, 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:55.560 and maybe, just maybe we'll have you on the show 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.400 to play sometime. Alright, so before we get into the 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.360 exhilarating rides and names of designs and all that good stuff, 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:07.320 we probably need to start out by talking a little semantics. Semantics, 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.160 you want to take this to the least fun place possible, yeah, 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:12.440 I know, I know, but there is an important distinction 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.640 we should make about today's topic. So if you were 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.080 to ask somebody the difference between an amusement park and 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.120 a theme park, yeah, they might think it's a trick questions. 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:22.720 I mean, you know, both kinds of parks are high energy, 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:26.040 their family friendly. You've got all the mechanical rides, the 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:29.200 colorful designs, the tasty junk food, which is probably my 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.240 favorite part, you know, But there's a very real difference 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.600 between say, a seaside amusement park like a Coney Island, 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.120 and a full blown theme park like Universal Studios or 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.120 Lego Land. Sure, and I guess by the same token. 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.160 Amusement parks can contain individual rides or areas that are 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:47.720 themed to something. So if you think about something like 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:49.960 Six Flags and their parks, they all have a bunch 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.360 of unthmed roller coasters and carnival type rides, But then 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.280 there are all those attractions from like Looney Tunes or 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.440 d C Comics, So there's some crossover here and there. Yeah, 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:01.680 that's that's that's true. But you know, for the most part, 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:03.760 it's enough to know that the goal of an amusement 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.200 park is to you know, give people a thrill more 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.800 or less through random assortments of exciting rides. And you know, 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:11.640 the aim of a theme park, on the other hand, 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.480 is to really immerse people in this elaborate storytelling experience, 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.159 and that just happens to use exciting rides as a 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.960 way of telling these stories. So it was interesting to 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.600 me in doing research for this episode that every aspect 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.000 of a theme park, or at least a really good one, 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:30.440 is meticulously crafted to support the parks theme. So not 0:04:30.600 --> 0:04:33.479 just like the architecture, but things like the smells in 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.560 the air, the music being played, the characters of course, 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:41.120 and employees uniforms, but landscaping, the color of the paint, 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:43.920 the style of the benches, even the trash cans. Like 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:46.520 everything you see or hear or smell or touch like 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:49.799 it's carefully selected, all for the story that's being told, 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:52.599 which just seems like such a lofty goal for for 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.720 someplace where kids are like throwing tantrums and parents are 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.280 angry that they're spending nine dollars for a soda. Now, 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.040 I can't wait to be angry at Dollywood. A lot 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:03.279 of us tend to associate these with, you know, crass 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:06.080 commercialism or think of them as a low brow, more 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:09.120 mindless form of entertainment. But that's something we'll see a 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:11.479 lot today, is that there's more substance at the core 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:13.400 of these theme parks than most of us give them 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:15.520 credit for. And speaking of credit, I do want to 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.520 take a minute upfront to recognize Frederick Thompson, the inventor 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:21.279 of the world's first them detraction and a true theme 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:24.080 park pioneer. Alright, so just to be sure we're we're 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.520 not talking the same Fred Thompson who was the politician 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:28.839 and the actor right now, but that would have been awesome, 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:31.479 like talking about politician Fred Thompson and then dropping the 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.599 line like, oh yeah, and he was a theme park pioneer. 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.760 All right, all right, we'll have a separate episode on 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.760 that Fred Thompson one day, but for this episode, this 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:41.320 seems like a good place to start, all right, tell 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:43.760 us more about him. Yeah, Thompson designed the first of 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:46.400 what we've categorized today as a dark ride, but he 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.440 hasn't gotten nearly as much attention as some of the 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.839 other theme park titans we'll talk about today. And for 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.239 any listeners who aren't up on their theme park lingo 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.400 we should note that a dark ride is basically just 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:58.919 an indoor ride where a vehicle has guided along this 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.919 track and you know, you go from one set to another. 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.160 So you know, think Mr Toad's Wild Ride at Disneyland, 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.080 or Haunted Mansion, or you know, even the generic kind 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:09.719 of haunted house that you would go through if you 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.840 were at an amusement park exactly. And Thompson really helped 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:15.920 develop this genre of rides. He was an architecture designed 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.559 buildings for county fairs and public exhibitions, and he really 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:21.799 wanted to create a ride that could dazzle the audience's 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:24.599 senses and help them forget about their everyday worries. So 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:28.320 in nineteen o one, using copious amounts of plaster and 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:32.479 modern advances like electric machinery and light bulbs, Thompson premiered 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.120 his masterpiece, which he dubbed a Trip to the Moon. 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.040 And you were saying, you know, this was nineteen o one, 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:40.280 so you know, if you think about the timing there, 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:42.440 not only have we not made it to the moon yet, 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:44.920 but even the Right brothers, you know, their first man 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.000 flight was still a couple of years off, so that 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.000 this whole premise, this whole thing would have been complete 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.640 science fiction at that point totally. And Thompson chose his 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.440 theme wisely, which is why he was fine forking over 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:59.000 eight tho dollars to build the attraction, which by the way, 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:02.080 is more than two million dollars in today's money. Wow, God, 0:07:02.160 --> 0:07:04.200 that is so pricey, all right, So what exactly did 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:06.159 you get for that kind of cash? Well, the main 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:08.440 part of the ride was a thirty passenger airship that 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:11.080 was suspended from the ceiling by steel cables, and you 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.560 can find pictures of it online. It basically looks like 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.320 a huge canoe with these wide or like wings, and 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.400 the wings were controlled by this pulley system that let 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.119 the ship rock back and forth. And they're also these 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.920 like small fans that provide the sensation of wind rushing by. 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:27.960 Like it was great, the feeling of soaring in this 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.120 flying machine. And it's all enhanced by sound effects and 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:35.840 hundreds of tiny lights, and there's like a painted canvas backdrop. 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.960 It's amazing, especially for the time. And and uh, and 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.760 it wasn't just that, Like the people rise beyond the 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.760 Earth's atmosphere all the way to the moon, and and 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.080 then when the ship reaches its destination, passengers disembark and 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.040 entered this lunar cavern and it's made of plaster, where, 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:53.280 of course they meet a race of moon people called 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.400 the sell a Knife. And of course, so it's pretty 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:59.360 much the world's first flight simulator, right, and it had 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:02.000 to of course this added dose of sci fi whimsey. 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:04.360 I kind of wish I could go back and ride 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.040 this kind of thing and see how people would have 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:08.320 responded to it initially. Yeah, and more than that, he 0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:10.360 was a visionary, so he included a gift shop where 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:14.240 visitors could eat green moon cheese. Of course, all all right, 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:16.960 So Frederick Thompson certainly played a part in the evolution 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.320 of amusement parks and that transition into the theme parks. 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:22.640 And you know, but while we're on the subject of credit, 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:24.680 we do have to get this one out of the way. 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.800 It would it would definitely be impossible to talk about 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.000 theme parks without referencing their patron saint, and that's Walter 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.360 Elias Disney, or Uncle Walt, as he's known to those 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:35.640 who have drunk the kool aid. You know. But no 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.360 matter what you think of Disney Parks or the behemoth 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.680 parent company, that they belonged to. There's really no denying 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:45.240 that the man behind the mouse revolutionized the entertainment industry 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.520 and and of course paved the way for modern theme 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.640 parks as we know them. Absolutely, Disney was responsible for 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:54.160 so many technical innovations that became staples of of the industry. 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.520 I mean the biggest is the audio animatronics, those life 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.880 like robot characters that you see at So the Caribbean 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.760 and the Enchanted Tiki Room. But you know, if we 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.319 really want to give proper credit, we should also mention 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.120 the creator of the world's first theme park, which you know, 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:12.160 a contrary to popular belief, was not Walt Disney. Yeah, 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.720 I was reading about that too. So this honor actually 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.560 belongs to a guy named Louis Coke. He was this 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.480 industrialist and he had made it his retirement project to 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.679 create the first ever theme park. Now, he lived near 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.760 a tiny town called Santa Claus, Indiana. I know we've 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.000 talked about Santa Claus, Indiana before, but as you can imagine, 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.360 children from all of the world would visit the town 0:09:32.360 --> 0:09:35.520 in hopes of meeting Santa. Of course, they then only 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.080 leave disappointed when they discovered old Saint Nick did not, 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.760 in fact, spend his offseason in the rural Midwest. For 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.920 some reason, does in vacation in the midst which is 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.000 you know, that's funny, Like I had heard of Santa 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.439 claus Land and heard of Santa Claus, Indiana, but I 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.440 never knew the two were connected. But I'm curious, Like, 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:54.199 I don't understand why parents would make that track. It 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:57.880 seems crazy. Well either way, Louis Coke was the father 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.800 of nine, so the thought of all those disappointed kids 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:03.680 coming to town it really got to him. He'd always 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.160 wanted to build an amusement park, and so in nineteen 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:09.360 forty six, this was nine years before Disneyland would open 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:13.439 to the public, Coke introduced the world to Santa Claus. 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:15.840 I love that the first theme park has like the 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:19.080 narrowest theme imaginable. I'd say it was pretty on the 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:21.920 nose as a theme, but still groundbreaking as a concept. 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:24.320 I mean, there had been tons of amusement parks before, 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.120 but nothing quite like Santa claus Lands, which also seems 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.720 a little crazy because the concept of like public amusement 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:32.960 like that goes back all the way to the Renaissance. 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.880 That's when a pleasure gardens started popping up on the 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.000 grounds of English inns and taverns. Yeah, but you know, 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.080 somehow an amusement park with a dedicated theme had it 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:45.320 really had never been done before, and thankfully the idea 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:47.720 proved a huge hit with the public, and the Coke 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:49.959 family was able to expand the park's theme in the 0:10:50.040 --> 0:10:53.480 nineteen eighties, and this allowed them to include areas themed 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:57.199 around other holidays, so not just Christmas, but Thanksgiving, Halloween, 0:10:57.320 --> 0:10:59.400 fourth of July. It seems like such a strange place, 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.160 to be honest with you, But seventy one years later 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.040 the park is still open for business. Then now it 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.320 goes by the more inclusive name Holiday World. I like 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.640 the Holiday World. It's so more smarter than like just 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:13.560 hanging out with Santa, which you can do at any 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:16.720 local mall. By the way, speaking of holidays, do you 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:19.240 know that John D. Rockefeller used to celebrate a personal 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:23.360 holiday every year called Job Day. It was the anniversary 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:25.240 of the day he got his first job at sixteen, 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:27.880 and he considered it way more important than any other 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.120 day in his calendar. How well, I don't think I've 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.840 seen any job Day land theme parks, but I agree 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:34.600 with you it's it's better to have a broad and 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.839 more universal concept. And you know, and thinking about all 0:11:37.840 --> 0:11:40.640 of this, I'm really curious about the decision making that 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:42.960 goes into planning a theme park, Like, you know, how 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:44.920 do you settle on a theme or decide what kind 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:48.199 of attraction to use for for any of these given concepts. Well, 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:49.880 how about we got David Younger on the line and 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:58.280 see if he can walk us through that. Okay, Bengo. So, 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:02.120 a few weeks ago we did an episode on World Records, 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:05.320 and I'm not sure if Guinness keeps up with a 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.480 world record on the person who has interviewed the most 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:11.440 theme park designers in the world, but if they did, 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:13.679 I'm pretty sure we may be talking to the person 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:17.200 who would take that crown. He's the author of really 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:21.000 the the Ultimate Guide on designing Theme Parks. He spoke 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:24.800 to thousands of designers, engineers, creatives and others during the 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.560 project and the book is called Theme Park Design and 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.959 the Art of Themed Entertainment. So, David Younger, welcome to 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.760 part Time Genius. Thank you very much for having me. So, David, 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.040 I've read this was a massive project and it took 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:39.960 four years to complete. How did theme park design become 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.559 a passion of yours, well, Rudy. For me, it's been 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:44.960 something that I've been interested in ever since I was 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:46.600 a kid. And it's like I was the kid that 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:50.800 was playing roller coaster Tycoon NonStop, designing all all the 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:52.800 different things. And so I knew I wanted to go 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:55.760 into team time design. The only trouble was that there 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.640 aren't design courses or the worms of the time. And 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.800 so I went into film and said, and I realized 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:05.000 that you can get hundreds of books on screenwriting and 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.320 directing and editing for films, but nothing existed for for 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.720 theme parks. So I kind of realized if I wanted 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.559 to learn this myself and I wanted to buy this book, 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.319 you didn't exist. I thought I'd have to write it myself. 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:18.920 Well that's terrific. Now in the book, you talk about 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.840 three types of theme park guests and describe them as 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:26.760 world travelers, character huggers, and thrill seekers. And I was 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.280 curious to talk first about that that first group. These 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.280 world travelers. Now, these are the ones that you describe 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:35.360 as is liking to be, you know, transported to another world. 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.400 That that feels so convincing that you almost believe you're 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.080 really there, and and I'm curious for you. You know 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.040 what parks stand out as the best in the world 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.840 are doing exactly that well. If you look at the 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:48.679 different theme parks around the world, there are actually a 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:52.040 number of different styles of design that the theme parks use. 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:54.680 The best way of thinking about this is to compare Epic, 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.560 for example, to The Magic Kingdom, where the Magic Kingdom, 0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:02.000 you're asked Tom kind of buy into this idea that 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.360 you really are in the American West, or you really 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:06.720 are in a fairy tale village. Whereas you compare that 0:14:06.760 --> 0:14:10.000 to Epcot, where you'll go on something alike, uh, the 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.920 Universe of Energy, which is where you're not really in 0:14:12.960 --> 0:14:15.160 any time or place. You've just been kind of talked 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.920 about a talt about energy and these parks like The 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.840 Magic Kingdom that that try to convince you that you're 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.200 really in another time, another time and place. It's all 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.960 new traditional style parks, and really the best of that 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.160 is definitely going to be Disney. I mean value of 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.480 the people that invented it back in the nineteen fifties 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.640 and they're still doing absolutely brilliantly today. But as well 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:40.200 as a universal studios um it was kind of going 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:45.160 for a postmodern type park in but ever Harry Potter opened, 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.600 They're going for this place you in the world, convince 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.240 you you're really their approach. I'm curious to hear you 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.600 know where you see this this industry going. Obviously, there's 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:57.480 been incredible evolution over the past couple of decades. What 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.840 do you see changing or what do you see emerging 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.960 in the world of theme parks and theme park design 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:06.000 in the next couple of decades. Well, the main thing 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.120 is how much theme parks are willing to commit to 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.800 fully immersing you within, particularly intellectual properties like Star Wars 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.880 and an Avatar and Harry Potter. So, for example, whereas 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.040 twenty years ago Disney might get the licensed to build 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:23.080 a Star Wars to put Star Wars into their theme parks, 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.840 and they'll build one ride, now twenty years later they'll 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.840 build an entire land and four attractions all Star Wars 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:34.000 themes into it, as well as Star Wars themes, restaurants 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.720 and Star Wars themes hotels and Stellars them shops. It's 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:42.920 also becoming more personal, particularly with video games kind of 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.560 threatening wity to step into a world. Theme parks have 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.120 been trying to found ways of immersing yourself more and 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.200 more um and one of the best ways of doing 0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.720 that is using new technology like the ones at the 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.560 Whisping World of Harry potter Um where you actually get 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:02.120 to cast your and spell within the environment. And that's 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.120 something that hasn't been done before. So we didn't episode 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:07.040 on IKEA a few weeks ago and talked about the 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.160 thought that goes into the flow of the store, and 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:10.680 I was curious if you could talk a little bit 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.240 about like how that works for theme parks. So we've 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.040 theme parks before. The theme parks are invented their where's 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:20.520 kind of the state fairs and amusement parks like Coney Island. 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:23.200 Their typical layout was just a grid layout, so you 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.120 have intersections with the rides in the middle, and it 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.160 was a really an interesting layout to walk around. It 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.560 wasn't the most efficient way of laying things out, and 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:36.120 so when dissee Land was designed in they decided, well, 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.280 Disney decided to try something different and that's what invented 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.040 the hubband spoke layout. So in the hubband spoke layout, 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.960 you have a plaza at the middle with the castle 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.800 and then you have radial walkways spanning out into the 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.200 different them lands, and by doing that you kind of 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.200 contain the theme lands into their particular areas, so you 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:58.480 can create immersion and everything like that. And also it's 0:16:58.480 --> 0:17:01.280 a much easier way of finding your your way around 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.760 around the park. But then within that you also have 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.000 you've got to get the guests to move around within 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.760 the park, so you you have the engines of movements 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:12.840 that Team park Design is used. And there are two 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.240 main ones. Okay, the first one is the weenie, which 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:19.119 is an odd term, but basically a weenie is a 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.560 visual magnet. It's something that you see in the descent 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:23.600 and you go, wow, that looks interesting. I want to 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:26.359 learn more about that, and so you walk towards it. 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.760 And the best example of that is obviously the Castle 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:31.760 on Main Street USA. You go through the gates at Disneyland, 0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:33.960 you see the castle and you immediately want to walk 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:36.400 up to and and and and see what's see what's 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:39.080 down there. And similarly at Digital and Paris Dislam Paris 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:40.919 is the first part where not only did they use 0:17:40.920 --> 0:17:42.359 a weenie at the end of the Main Street USA, 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:44.959 but they put we need into every single laps, so 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.160 when you're in the hub, you could look towards Discovery 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:49.920 Land and see space mountains, you can look towards Frontier 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.680 Land and see Biggs under Mantain, and every which everywhere 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.239 you look, you have this this visual icon pulling you 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:57.639 towards it. But then the second term, which is the 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.159 one that's used in shopping walls, is the anchor h 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:02.800 So in shopping malls, you'll kind of typically find that 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:05.640 the biggest store to pay at the extremities of the mall, 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:08.160 and then all of the smaller shops and the boutiques 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.800 shops and the independent shops place in between at the 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:13.680 anchor stores. So that guests we'll go to an anchor store, 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.720 then they'll go to the next anchor store, and on 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:17.720 the way they'll see these other shops along the way 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:19.720 and go, oh, I'll have a look in here. David, 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:21.760 this has been fascinating. I don't know about bangsh but 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:23.840 I can't wait to get to another theme park. I'm 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:25.639 pretty sure we'll have this on our minds when we 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.720 are walking around the next theme park that we're in. 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.000 But thanks so much for joining us on part time, genius. 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:44.879 You're very welcome. You're listening to part time genius, and 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.080 today we're talking about the big ideas behind theme parks. 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.160 All right, Samga, what would you say if I told 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.600 you that Disneyland was actually more real than the world 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.920 outside it's gates. I mean, I'd probably say, you've gotten 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.720 into that Uncle walk cool aid you mentioned earlier. Well, 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:01.720 I know it's a pretty wild claim, but it's one 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.680 that kept coming up and doing the research for this episode, 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.239 so I started wondering if there was something to the 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.200 idea of theme parks being you know, this heightened form 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:12.800 of reality. And from what I can tell, the first 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.920 person to suggest this might have actually been Walt Disney himself. Yeah, 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.760 and I'm guessing Walt Disney was not biased at all. No, 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:21.800 not at all, no way, no way was he biased. Well, 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:24.000 but there is an interesting story here. And then the 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.000 story goes that in the early days of the park, 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.200 Walt once gave a private tour to the famous evangelist 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.359 Billy Graham, and Graham walked around, thought it was nice, 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.199