WEBVTT - Understanding Mules with Lloyd Hawley 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.200 You're listening to the Sportsman's Nation podcast network, brought to 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:06.560 you by Savage Arms. In the new one ten Ultra 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:10.080 light at about six pounds, The one tent ultra Light 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:13.800 is designed to combat elevation and the elements while maintaining 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:17.840 the performance of a factory blueprinted Savage one tent action. 0:00:18.560 --> 0:00:22.320 The carbon fiber wraps, stainless steil barrel makes it durable 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:26.880 and lightweight. The rifle comes equipped with the Savage ACUEFETE technology, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:28.880 so that means it's adjustable, and it comes in a 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.920 variety of calibers, the three O eight, the two seventy 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:36.599 twenty eight nozzler, the eight actually improved, the thirty at 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.440 six and much more. If you want to find out 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:43.639 more information about the one ten Ultra Light, visit Savage 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:52.320 arms dot com. My name is Clay Nukeleman. I'm the 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.280 host of the Bear Hunting Magazine podcast. I'll also be 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:59.760 your host into the world of hunting the icon of 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:05.520 the North American Wilderness Fair. We'll talk about tactics, gear conservation, 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:08.320 but will also bring you into some of the wildest 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:18.200 country on the planet chasing back. As many of you 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.280 would know, I love using mules to get into the 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.440 back country. We've had a lot of We do a 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:26.920 lot of our hunting no mules, and I get a 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:30.200 ton of questions about mules, like how do you get started, 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:32.679 what makes a good mule, where do you buy mule? 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.400 How much does a mule cost? What makes a mule 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:39.119 better than a horse? Or or or why would why 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.639 would people use them over a horse? It's a better question. 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:48.160 Lloyd Holly is a national expert on mules. He's been raising, training, 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:53.480 selling riding mules for over thirty years, and he is 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:57.960 uh he is an expert. We have a really good 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:02.160 conversation that gets into the nut and bolts of mules. 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:04.200 And if you listen to this the whole whole thing, 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.560 through its entirety, you'll know more about mules than than 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:12.840 most people do. And uh So this can be used 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:14.919 as a resource for you if you're interested in getting 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:19.720 in mules, or or just want to know some good 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:27.119 intel on an iconic equine animal. Be sure to check 0:02:27.160 --> 0:02:32.560 out W Hunting Supply for all of your hound hunting 0:02:32.880 --> 0:02:37.560 dog hunting needs, whether it's garment products, whether it's callers 0:02:37.560 --> 0:02:43.000 and leashes, whether it's UH customer apparel. W Hunting Supply 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:45.720 is known for their customer service. They're known for their 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:49.800 dedication to the hound sports and they're a family owned 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.800 and operated business. My friend Buddy Woodberry and his family 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:58.040 run the business and they are experts in their field. 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:03.280 Check out w Hunting Supply for anything you need has 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:13.840 to do with dogs. So we're at the Hollywood Mule Farm. Um, 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:18.560 I'm here with Mr Lloyd Holly and I got Colby 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.360 the bar Tech Morehead with me. But it's a beautiful 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:26.200 June morning, isn't it, Mr Lloyd? Yes it is. We 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.760 we've been fortunate in some ways. She had a lot 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:31.679 of rain this year. In other ways it's rainoys delaysia 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:36.520 couldn't hay first cuttn't Yeah, but it pulps you out 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:40.480 later on in hot summer. Yes, yes, well it's kind 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:44.120 of turned summertime on us. Uh. It's it's been pretty hot, 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:47.040 but I guess that's what it's supposed to do in 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:51.120 late June and Arkansas. Well, I'm no old timer, but 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:57.800 this way to spring I can remember. Really. Yeah. Yeah, Well, 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:03.640 Mr Lloyd, I've got a ton of questions for you. Um, 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.920 So you have been in the mule business for how long? 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:13.800 Thirty three? Years thirty three years and tell me this 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:17.760 kind of give me an overview of of what you 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.320 do with Hollywood mule farms. Well, I could say I 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.080 started from the beginning. I grew up on horses, you know, 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.760 and I've lived I was born and graced here in 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.640 bray Grove, Arkansas, except in three years when we moved 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.920 to Idaho when I was in the first second third 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:43.120 grade and my dad and uncle caught wild mustangs out 0:04:43.160 --> 0:04:47.039 of while he mountains and near the Snake River, and 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.799 we broke them and so sold him for extra money. 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:56.239 You know. That's where I learned to ride mustangs. And 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:59.000 uh we do. We put about thirty days training on 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.920 him and then sell them. Really, so that's what you 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:04.640 your family did for the three years there in Idaho. 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:06.159 Or did y'all go up there and catch them and 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:08.880 bring him back here? Oh? No, we were. We lived there, okay, 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.839 but we're just on them. On that note, we found 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.280 out in our experience and then we trained a bunch 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:20.120 of them, was that if they got to be four 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.240 years old, you they were, it wasn't too late to 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.720 train them, but it was a lot harder. You can 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:29.240 train them when they were two and three year olds. Well, 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:31.440 we tried several of the four and five six year 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.440 olds and and in time he might have come around, 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.440 but they weren't quick learners. And but I got thrown 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:42.880 up without his saggurating puppy five hundred times. Wow. But 0:05:43.440 --> 0:05:45.200 we rode a lot of barback. We had a railroad 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:51.200 track riding, and uh, it's all me and my first cousin, 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:54.640 same age, and that's all we did summers after and 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:59.520 before school. And he's ride those mustangs and my dad 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:06.200 uncle not a three hundred, three hundred hundred fifty arena, 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.360 if you will, a big d and and then it 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.480 took a couple of smaller ones and that's where we're 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:16.280 starting them all. And of course we weren't. I did 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:21.440 not know about horse whisper, yeah, that stuff, you know. 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:24.320 But when we learned a few things, and we did 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.320 a lot of the same things, and I just didn't 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.840 call them mad. But our our theory west to give 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:31.760 him started and said, we stubbed him up to a 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:38.279 pony horse. And the way we went, yeah, and so 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:42.640 you would you would, you'd put them with a broke 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:47.719 course and then times of the broke course, and now 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:51.920 you just lead them around to desensitize them, or you'd 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:55.200 ride them. We rode them, you'd have somebody on the Yeah, 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:57.560 they didn't buck theer as hard, but they take sure 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:00.120 fight at they They had to have a pretty have 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.599 rider on the pony horse because they must thing would 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.960 be up in the saddle a lot of times and 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:10.480 so but so you learn to not be afraid of 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:15.720 a bucking equine animal at that point. That was had 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:17.600 a long time ago. But we just get back up 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:21.200 and go again, you know, and pretty soon it's like 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.040 round in training now. We we would take my cousin, 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:26.680 I would get on one. It was just thirty days 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.040 broken and good new loading, and and we just run 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.000 them round and round and round around rich and pat 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:36.040 him round and around around, and we're soon just let 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:40.720 you pat him, you know. Yeah. And so take me 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.720 from there to how you got in the mules. Well, 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.400 we moved back to Arkansas and have been here ever since. 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:55.040 But um we we we we always had horses and 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:59.920 for some reason, well one reason was I'd always wanted 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.600 a pair of mules for driving working team, and I 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.440 didn't really think about riding them at that point. But 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:10.360 they're pulling a wagon or pulling, pulling logs or something 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:14.560 a card or anything. And but my one grandfather used 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:18.200 mules a lot, and I liked them, and and I 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:21.120 always want so after I got married and got we 0:08:21.240 --> 0:08:24.680 botched horses, and the whole family went trail riding. But 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:28.880 I found this pair of mules and about fourteen two, 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.120 and I bought them and in the bot that's their height, yes, 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.760 sort team too, yeah, and about a whole bunch of 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:41.040 horse drawn equipment to work them with. Of course there 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:42.960 was a lot of trouble, but it was what I 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:46.560 wanted to do. And and but being riders and the 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:49.000 oldest son being about twelve years old at that time, 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:53.000 we hadn't broke the ride no time. And then we 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:57.079 found out just from personal experience that on a trail 0:08:57.200 --> 0:09:01.400 riding that they were superior to the horse, just on average. 0:09:01.880 --> 0:09:04.040 You can't say a blanket everyone goes better than ever 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:08.040 horse or vice versa. But but anyway, they were much 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:12.520 more sure footed and much more of a self preservationist 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:16.439 type of animal. And whereas a horse will painting lots 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.360 quicker than the mule and rare up or fall over. 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:24.040 And yeah, I remember one time I got off the 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:28.560 trail and it was about thirty riders of the Devil's 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.199 nand and there's pretty rocky trails and they're looking nothing 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:36.480 but the feet and horse pretty much knew where his 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.640 front feet was, but basically the back feet just fall 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:43.200 wherever they were. And here comes to move mu along, 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:47.560 and he's picking between rocks and just staying nothing. There's 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:50.320 much chance to loosen his balance, you know. And the 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.120 rougher and steeper got, the better the mule shines over 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:56.640 the horse. I see. You know, that's a good That's 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:00.280 the best description of the sure footedness of am old 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:05.600 that I've heard, because I've experienced what you're saying. But 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:09.160 you're saying that horse knows where his front feet are, 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.080 but his back feet just going wherever. Where a mule 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.839 is just he's picking up all his feet and putting 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:17.560 them right where he wants him. Well, one thing, and 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:21.040 I can't prove it scientifically, but I've been told, and 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.320 I think so from my experiences, that mule can seize 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:28.480 back feet and the horse canned, okay, because of positioning 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.040 of his eyes. I just tell you a lot on 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:38.160 an animal, how what they're set on the head. And see, uh, 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:42.480 of course we're predators and are fishing comes together pretty 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:47.160 quickly and pray animals. Sur vision doesn't not there. They're 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:51.320 focused on half mile away or quarter mile or whatever. 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.679 And if you get closer to an object and it's 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:57.360 done a good point. A lot of people can don't 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.560 figure out why a mule spooks set a stump, rock 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.480 or holding the ground or something wonder student's not moving 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:09.559 or anything. Well, can't focus on it. There's this reason. Okay, 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:12.880 where do you where you right eye vision makes your 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:15.720 left eye vision, that's your focal point. And on a 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:18.840 horse or munich the different. But six or eight or 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:22.480 ten ft before the crosses. Yeah, of course, being a 0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:29.120 bray animal um having you we do you want something 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.920 to run and get away their visions further out? I see, 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:37.640 I see. So you by owning these mules, having grown 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:40.720 up your whole life with horses, and then you got 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:45.480 these mules and you saw for yourself that they were 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.280 in the woods, on a trail ride, in a lot 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:52.720 of functional ways. As a saddle animal they were. You 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.520 felt like they were superior to a horse, and so 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.520 that fueled your desire to get more into him. I guess, 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:06.760 well partly, and there another thing the mule does. Of course, 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:09.800 there's any in the stuff you say. It just has exceptions. 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:14.120 But basically, a mule does not wear up, does not 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.840 get off the front end, does not to their head. 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.160 If you notice the horse starts getting nervous about something, 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:23.240 he starts fidgeting and jumping off his front feeding and 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:25.240 throwing his head up and then maybe rear up and 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:29.079 maybe fall over. Okay, And you just rarely see a 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.240 mule do that. So okay, that's another reason it makes 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:36.720 me more surefooted. And another reason that it makes the 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:40.840 rider more confident. Yeah, you know you you can get 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.320 a little nervous if you were to real good experience 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.240 rider and your horse starts doing all that messing up 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.319 down And is that? Is that the way a lot 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.840 of horse rex happen is a horse rearing up on 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:53.599 its front end. I mean that's kind of like the 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:57.959 classic Western scene, you know, as this horse rearing up 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.560 on its on its front end. I mean, is that 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:05.920 how I guess? Well, there's more just a par part 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:10.000 of it, but it's more to the pointed, in a 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:14.200 moment of crashes, a horse doesn't care if it hurts 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.120 you or him or if he goes over the cliff 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.640 or while he's going somewhere. Yeah, and the mule being 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.520 a more self pasuration is not that they can't can't 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:26.040 run away also, but they said, oh, it's always down there, 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.720 I want to stay on a trail. Yeah, you know 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:33.200 that kind of a situation. And why do you think 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.280 that is? It's it's you know, I guess to even 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.520 take it back to the very basics. A mule and 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:41.240 most people would know this, but a mule is the 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:45.240 cross between a male donkey and a female horse, so 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:51.400 jack donkey and a mayor horse. So why would uh, 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:55.080 why do you think a mule is naturally more self 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.920 preserving than a horse because he's half donkey or more 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:03.120 and a donkey's avery self protecting. Is that correct? Well said, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.319 you have self preservations. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you take it. 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:09.199 I tell people all the time they want to learn 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.360 how to ride a mule, is I'm a donkey and 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:17.560 try to train the donkey and then nicking more clearly, 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:24.000 better to evaluate the mule and understand it because people 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.280 are more just relate to the horse side of the mule, 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.400 not being a criticize him, but because many people have 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.280 a tend a donkey or anything to do with them, 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:36.720 so they don't have a clue. They think there he 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.400 just having an awful day. But if you if you 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.200 can understand the donkey side O what you said, No, 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:45.000 that's the donkey coming down anyway, So you can deal 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:46.560 with them and train and retain them a lot better 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:50.800 if you understand. In my opinion, I think the donkey 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:54.760 m hmm yeah. So what would be the what would 0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.800 be those characteristics? How would you describe those? Because you know, 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.160 what I kind of want to do is describe why 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.280 would somebody want a mule? That's the question I get, 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:07.400 Mr Lloyd with people that are considering, you know, in 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.080 for our context, these guys are considering how to get 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.480 into the back country, how to pack in, how to 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:17.520 stay longer in there, so they're not just joy riding. 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.480 They're trying to use these animals. And they asked me 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:24.840 why would I get a mule over a horse? You know? 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.680 And I think you've described in one way, you know, 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:33.320 like the the surefootedness and the safety, the potential safety 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.000 of a a good mule, and not like you said, 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:38.520 there's gonna be some mules that are dangerous as they 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.240 can be, just because they're not trained, they're not broke, 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.880 they're not good animals. Forever ever horse story, you can 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:48.680 tell me the mule said, I could tell you ten 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:52.000 more for horses said, you know, okay, because you hear 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.360 a lot of people say, oh, don't ride a mule 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.200 showing on and so fell off of them in brokish 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.240 neck into what I'm bucked around well shoulder horses, you know, 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:04.480 but that's minor part. But you take it like a 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.680 long and self persuasion and steal. If you're doing a 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.880 round pain work with your dog, with your mule, and 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:14.760 you know, if you put a horse in a round 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:18.160 pain I worked last year. I worked a three year 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:20.880 old horse for a friend of mine around Ben and 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:24.120 I took a halter and the leader let him in 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.760 the round pan and turned the blues and I just 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.600 shook my halter and he must have galloped twenty rounds 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:35.560 around the round pion. Four year stopped and I shake 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:42.080 it again. And typical, especially you've done broke one. But 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:46.200 you take a mule, you can earn you most of them. 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.680 Whn go for shake your halter, you know, to get 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.280 after him, make him walking. You really got to get 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.440 after him to make him canter. And round pain because 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.720 it's kind of like I tell people after the second 0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:01.840 trip around the around pen, they've seen everything out there, 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:03.720 you know what, what what more reason could you want 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:08.520 me to be out here? Yeah? Yeah, so the reaction 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.439 of that horse was more extreme than the reaction of 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.240 the mule. Yes, is that a way to describe what 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:19.520 you're saying? Well, that's part of it. There. They're more 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.640 of a fast twitch muscle animal and donkeys are slow 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.840 twitch mussel animal, kind of like a hunder charge sprinter 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.520 and a mile distance runner. You know, Yeah, you see 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.399 there with some guys on track running a mile or 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.080 eights or whatever. Yeah, there's a little skinny dudes. You 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.239 don't have any extra way, no muscle mash on him 0:17:38.480 --> 0:17:42.240 to build up heat came with the horses taking an 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.120 air brunched a long way. She's not got a big 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:54.240 quarter horse hip on him. And yeah yeah, So so 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:59.480 take me into every time, Well, take me into how 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:04.240 you got into training them and selling them, and and 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:09.159 and he made this lifestyle or a career. But I 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.200 could say, well, after I bought the team, my son 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:13.840 and I started riding them trail rides. And one day 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.679 we were on a trail ride and somebody says, were 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.760 you going to the meal show at such a such 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.040 a town? You know what massour? We said, a meal show? 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.639 What's that? M hm? And they told us, well, it's 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.719 just like a horse show, and you do it with mules, 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:33.359 same things, tending to have more fun events than the 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:38.880 horse shows to average horse show. So we we my son, 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:40.480 I told her mules up and we went up there 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.199 and we said where do you go to Richard? So 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:50.280 they had to class list there, just sectaries desk and 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.240 we looked down through there and we didn't hard to 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.520 know want any of those things were. They were running 0:18:56.520 --> 0:19:00.440 the classes, but we hited everyone of them. And of 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.640 course our meals were untrained, and they got a little 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.280 bit unruly with us because we kept pushing them for 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:10.159 speed different events and we did Western Western pleasure in 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:13.720 bar Ratio and everything in between. You but we had 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:16.440 more fun than you can imagine, and then the first 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:20.520 question we had was worse the next show. And in 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:25.000 the meantime we started training our meals at home to 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.520 get ready for the show. So we did that for 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:32.120 a while. I didn't realized and it's not going to work. 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.679 These mules are plowed mules draft on drafted with horners 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.560 type mules, not speed mules, and so and so forth. 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.000 So I've always been one to try to have the 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:48.639 best I could and whatever it is. And um so 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:54.880 I bought two back in early eighties. I bought two 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:58.679 meals and give five thousand dollars piece for him. But 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:01.520 they were we started winning. They were because I recognized 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:05.040 that the ability, but they didn't the writer did not 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:08.480 have the ability to complete, to finish my fine tune 0:20:08.520 --> 0:20:13.960 them for training. But then we started winning, and then 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:18.920 people wanted to buy our mules. Okay. So I've always 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:21.480 been one if the price is right, it's for sale, 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:27.040 and so I'd sell. I sold the wife's mule all 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:35.520 the time. Yeah, the kids mules. Yeah, my daughter she 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:40.679 had this good mual and I lift it up to 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:46.040 her when she wanted to sell it, and he won. 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:48.840 She won all kinds of stuff with him the shows 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:53.000 for years. Was shot righting when she was nine, and 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.639 then she picked out this that at this point was 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:59.320 a little boy was trying to compete at the mule shows. 0:20:59.400 --> 0:21:01.960 This meal wasn't you're good enough? And he was crying 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:06.360 and and so but Arner said, Dad, when I could 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.359 read set little blue. I want that little boy to 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:15.040 having mm hmm. So we've become good friends with him. 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:18.119 And it was John Higgins and his son, John Jr. 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:26.199 That they're doing really quite well. That anyway, then that 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:28.280 blossomed out to work. At one point there we were 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:33.920 doing twenty five shows a year. Okay, you were competing, yes, yeah, 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:38.159 but you were also selling mules, so you were you 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:42.720 were gathering up mules and trying to find the best ones. Yeah. 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:46.480 I didn't get purposely in what you might call the 0:21:46.640 --> 0:21:50.280 quote trading business. It just kind of chucked me and 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:52.919 just kind of happened on its own. I just And 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:54.880 then your last name was Holly, and so you had 0:21:54.880 --> 0:22:01.840 the perfect marketing Hollywood. Yes, Hollywood's hollywoods. Yeah. A lot 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.600 of people think I took that after Hollywood, California, but 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:08.719 I didn't. Okay, Okay, maybe I missed it. My sister 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:14.160 married the last name of Woods, Okay. And we at 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:16.480 one point we bought some Richard cattle together, and we 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:18.360 had to have a prefix to put on their name, 0:22:19.560 --> 0:22:23.879 so we should wretch Hollywood's letter for letter. You know, 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:26.919 you know, I drove out this place for years and 0:22:27.080 --> 0:22:30.680 years before I had met you, and I was just like, 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:36.960 this guy's a marketing genius. Hollywood's well, let's just worked 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:41.679 our advantage certainly. Yeah, but anyway, I kept training mules 0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:44.359 and I'm trained. I just trained one. So I had 0:22:44.400 --> 0:22:46.640 one ride, didn't get a certain points, somebody by get 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.720 another one and pursuon. I was in the mule business. Yeah. 0:22:50.720 --> 0:22:54.560 At one point we for what to speak of my operations, 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:56.959 we had for three or four years, we had over 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:04.080 hundred head wow, horses, mules, donkeys, and we stood three 0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:09.239 Jackson read around two hundred marriage here. Wow. So you 0:23:09.280 --> 0:23:13.000 were so then you became you weren't selling well you 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:15.240 would have been selling finished mules, but you were also 0:23:15.400 --> 0:23:20.480 selling colts. Yeah. At that point, I don't I don't 0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:23.040 consider myself ever being in trading business, but I was 0:23:23.359 --> 0:23:27.440 in the marketing and Richelle been a totally integrated program, 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:30.760 you know what, Yeah, having a marriage ration, the coach standing, 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:35.520 Jack breaking, the coach ride, we're going outside, mules train. 0:23:36.840 --> 0:23:41.440 We shipped out of semen and equitainers all over the country. Really, 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:44.320 so you had jacks that were that in demand that 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:48.520 you were selling semen across the country. Now, what what 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:52.960 makes uh man that's what I remember from twenty years ago. 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:55.919 We we lived in pray Grow for a time, so 0:23:56.000 --> 0:24:00.879 I just around man this big old mammoth jacks or something. 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:03.080 And for people that are listening, if you've never seen 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:06.359 a picture of a mammoth jack, go type that in 0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:11.080 the internet. Pretty incredible animals. Did you You had some 0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:14.800 good ones, didn't you? Yeah? Well, I bought what I 0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:18.040 thought was good When he was good Jack. Colonel Bean 0:24:18.200 --> 0:24:23.359 called him, he uh was gating Jack, about fifty four inches, 0:24:23.640 --> 0:24:27.560 real clean bond why tween hawks and good head? Good 0:24:27.560 --> 0:24:30.280 head and I mean without a smaller head near and 0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:34.879 not too small. But I realized for trail riding he 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:37.760 was great. Every one of his coach moved out, I 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:40.080 mean bubils had some type of gate to him or 0:24:40.200 --> 0:24:43.760 easy mood. But then I realized I had all those 0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:46.480 good marriage. I read him too, and it just wasn't 0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:49.280 quite getting all the second third places. But it wasn't 0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:53.679 getting an outstanding mule had haled her to win with. 0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:56.280 So that's when I started looking for Donner Jack. I 0:24:56.400 --> 0:24:59.080 bought in a whole lot better Jack, and I started 0:24:59.080 --> 0:25:02.440 having world champions a halter, tell me what that means. 0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:06.320 World champion halter. Well, that's certain. Just like a court 0:25:06.359 --> 0:25:08.639 horse says their world show every year, it's it's a 0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:11.920 peak of the shows, supposed to be the best show 0:25:11.960 --> 0:25:14.959 in the nation, you know, okay, West Inter's national levels 0:25:15.040 --> 0:25:18.720 level show. What what events are these animals competing in? 0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:23.320