Speaker 1: Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
Speaker 1: partnership with Iheartradiots. As Katie, I feel like we say
Speaker 1: this every single time we do a podcast, but it's
Speaker 1: it's true, Like sincerely this episode, Like I was sobbing
Speaker 1: last night watching you were. Yeah, Like I watched it
Speaker 1: twice and real times I was sobbing.
Speaker 2: Wait, I'm trying to remember. I watched it last night too,
Speaker 2: and now I'm like, guys, when you're old and you
Speaker 2: fall asleep, I can't remember what I did last night,
Speaker 2: and I was sober. I watched it completely sober. We
Speaker 2: always had a TV in our train at Scandals, right,
Speaker 2: mm hm? I never turned mine on, Gimi Camber never,
Speaker 2: and you are such a like you need to have
Speaker 2: something in the background. I feel like, so you had
Speaker 2: always I Love Lucy one or maybe like twilight Zone?
Speaker 2: Am I making that up?
Speaker 1: No, you're right, that's exactly right. I would watch Twilight Zone,
Speaker 1: I would watch I Love Lucy, I would watch horror films.
Speaker 1: I'd bring DVDs, remember DVDs and CDs.
Speaker 2: The other thing that must be noted about your trailer,
Speaker 2: which was so cool. Not only did you always have
Speaker 2: twilight Zone or I love Lucy On. But you always
Speaker 2: had like a fucking cool ass lamp with like a
Speaker 2: blanket over it or something, so it was very lighty.
Speaker 1: Didn't you remember that? Yes?
Speaker 2: So your trailer always had like amazing sort of mood lighting, Like,
Speaker 2: regardless of the day, it was very Giermo, are you
Speaker 2: affected by light? Are you like a light person? Are
Speaker 2: you like it needs to be dim?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it needs to be dim. It needs to be
Speaker 1: like a sort of an amber tone, like a reddish tone.
Speaker 2: God, you must have walked into them, because the makeup
Speaker 2: trailer couldn't be Oh god, you're polar opposite of that.
Speaker 2: I mean, when you walk into a fucking hair and
Speaker 2: makeup trailer, it is like landing on the sun at
Speaker 2: an airport.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean it's supposed to be all this great mirror
Speaker 2: lighting so that they can really do a good job
Speaker 2: doing your makeup. But I always felt like the lighting
Speaker 2: was so aggressive.
Speaker 1: It's so aggressive, so hostile. So wait, what did you
Speaker 1: do last night?
Speaker 2: Okay? Last night was one of these insanely stupid and
Speaker 2: annoying but also kind of fun mom situations where we
Speaker 2: had a four pm birthday party at Skyzone trampoline part shit,
Speaker 2: And I took both my kids by myself to an
Speaker 2: indoor trampoline park where you're just bouncing and peeing everywhere
Speaker 2: because I've had two children.
Speaker 1: Wait, did you get in the trampoline as well? Oh?
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I fucking jump all over that shit. I'm like,
Speaker 2: let's go. I put on an extra special bra for
Speaker 2: it so that I wasn't scaring the peoples, and then
Speaker 2: I only pete a little bit, which was a huge
Speaker 2: win because I used to do once you've had two children,
Speaker 2: all of you mommy gladiators who are out there listening
Speaker 2: two vaginal birds means that.
Speaker 1: They're like it's hard to control.
Speaker 2: Yes, that there's there's been some blowouts that have happened
Speaker 2: down there, and you better be working them keygels and
Speaker 2: all that to hold in the pps. But it was
Speaker 2: lovely and the kids had the best time ever. And
Speaker 2: you know what was cute. The girl whose birthday it
Speaker 2: was is seven, and she's a tough little cookie, like
Speaker 2: she likes to battle and fight and she does Pokemon
Speaker 2: battles with my son. They're like Archie is v Star
Speaker 2: blast in your face like and they're just like crazy
Speaker 2: battling and Albi said to me on the way home, Mommy,
Speaker 2: I think I know who I want to marry, which, like,
Speaker 2: where does he get this shit? Like, I don't talk
Speaker 2: to him about marriage. This must be in fucking Disney
Speaker 2: movies or some shit. But he's just like, I want
Speaker 2: to marry Charlie. She's so cute and so beautiful and
Speaker 2: she's seven and she's tough as fucking nails. But I'm
Speaker 2: not so convinced that Charlie will like boys. I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we've already discovered that my son he likes the ladies. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And it's funny when women are running by in sports bras.
Speaker 1: Is he like, uh do his eyes pop out like
Speaker 1: in the cartoons? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, He's like, Mommy, mommy, what's that?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Why don't they have clothes on? Like, mommy, what are
Speaker 2: they wearing?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: What is that?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: He's into it, and I'm like one time we were
Speaker 2: at a wine tasting and there was like a very
Speaker 2: like a woman there wearing a very risque thing. She
Speaker 2: was hot a shit, and she had long blonde hair.
Speaker 2: And my son was like, I'd like to go play
Speaker 2: with her.
Speaker 1: Oh no, he didn't.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, And I'm like, fucking shit, he's totally straight.
Speaker 1: I love him.
Speaker 2: I mean, did you know that you loved the little
Speaker 2: I mean when did you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Katie Will that's I was going to say earlier
Speaker 1: I was in kindergarten. I remember being in kindergarten even
Speaker 1: before that and being like attracted to other little boys,
Speaker 1: like you know, like whatever age a straight person knew,
Speaker 1: like whatever age you were, if it was, you know,
Speaker 1: five or seven, that's the same thing for a gay person.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And you can see it, like I mean, obviously he's
Speaker 2: already making comments like I want to marry this girl,
Speaker 2: so he doesn't understand like, oh, I'm having like feelings feeling,
Speaker 2: but he one hundred percent is this episode, we may
Speaker 2: or may not have an incredible guest and this person
Speaker 2: little tidbit fun fact I've worked with twice.
Speaker 1: Oh, I was going to ask you about that because
Speaker 1: I found that when I did my research.
Speaker 2: She's fucking unbelievable and she may or may not be
Speaker 2: part of our scandal body count unfortunately. Rip. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: she's got one of the fucking coolest voices I have
Speaker 2: ever heard.
Speaker 1: Yes, it just rumbles. Yeah, I love it. It's so good,
Speaker 1: it's so powerful.
Speaker 2: We're gonna have to ask this person. Is it because
Speaker 2: they smoked a lot as.
Speaker 1: A young man or is that just the way it's
Speaker 1: always been? Yeah, I don't know, who knows. I've always
Speaker 1: been jealous of raspy voices like that, me too, Like
Speaker 1: special voices like Daphanie Rubin Vega has a very specific,
Speaker 1: like special.
Speaker 2: Voice ability to just really grumble. Well, this actress has
Speaker 2: it ten millionfold. She is so like but she's like
Speaker 2: I boughta and I this episode she absolutely kills And
Speaker 2: she was part of the Scandal family. Was she in
Speaker 2: season one too?
Speaker 1: Whenever we see the like Mellie and Olivia, the Goons,
Speaker 1: the Goons, Yeah, plant doing the whole cytron hardly.
Speaker 2: Wing rigging, but we're talking about the one, the only Yeah,
Speaker 2: we got her in the toolbox.
Speaker 1: Deborah Mooney has been in a lot of iconic shows
Speaker 1: and movies like yes, I mean, you can't even imagine.
Speaker 1: She was in a movie, one of my favorite movies
Speaker 1: called Tutsie. Do you remember the Tootsie with Dustin Hoffman?
Speaker 2: Hoffman a fucking classic? Who did she play in Tutsi?
Speaker 3: Is?
Speaker 1: She played a character named missus Mallory. You have to
Speaker 1: go back and watch it. It's it's Dustin Hoffman is
Speaker 1: brilliant in that film. I mean, Terry Garr. Deborah Mooney
Speaker 1: is in it. And she was also in Dead Poet
Speaker 1: Society with Robin williamses.
Speaker 2: No, and we need to ask her about it. Also,
Speaker 2: Deborah Mooney so fucking pretty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's beautiful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't even when she dies ri ip Verna,
Speaker 2: she is laying back in her casket.
Speaker 1: I was like, my gorgeous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this woman is fucking gorgeous, her hair, her eye color.
Speaker 2: And then she's got that rumbly ass voice. Deborah Mooney.
Speaker 1: You guys, I Verna.
Speaker 2: That voice, that face, our one and only.
Speaker 3: Verna Thornton, Verna Thornton.
Speaker 2: And we have just gotten to the episode where Verna,
Speaker 2: so sadly and so horrifically is murdered by the hands
Speaker 2: of the president himself.
Speaker 3: Oh with a thought.
Speaker 1: I mean really, yes.
Speaker 2: Verna, can you take us through? Do you remember how
Speaker 2: you got the part?
Speaker 3: No? I think they just called me and that's me by.
Speaker 2: So it was just a straight offer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe so well. I mean, Deborah, you've done
Speaker 1: like a million and ten things. You were in Seinfeld,
Speaker 1: you were in you did an episode of Ellen, you
Speaker 1: were in Domestic disturb Vince Will and Grace, Anastasia Touched
Speaker 1: by an Angel? Like, I could go on and on
Speaker 1: and on.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: Did you always want to be an actor?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think so. Isn't it funny? I mean I
Speaker 3: grew up in a teen ninety town in North Dakota.
Speaker 3: I am the only one that became an actor.
Speaker 2: How did you get the idea?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: Were you acting as a little kid?
Speaker 3: That's what I wonder sometimes because as a little kid,
Speaker 3: I mean I used to perform for the neighbors. They
Speaker 3: had an entrance to their living room was a double door,
Speaker 3: you know, so that was my stage and they all
Speaker 3: sat on the couch and I held the dog and
Speaker 3: saying how much is that doggie in the window?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Funny?
Speaker 3: And they loved it.
Speaker 1: Did your parents always encourage you to continue like performing?
Speaker 3: No? No, I don't think they thought I was going
Speaker 3: to be an actress at all. Really, No, that was
Speaker 3: just something you know, Oh my god, sounds like you've
Speaker 3: got a air ball. Sorry, wouldn't you know?
Speaker 2: Oh, we'll take the cat with the hairball. We love
Speaker 2: real life stuff. Deborah Moody, How did you find yourself
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles? Or did you?
Speaker 3: I came out here to see my daughter. I was
Speaker 3: acting in New York. I went to the University of
Speaker 3: Minnesota and got an MFA in acting. And my mentor
Speaker 3: there was Charles Nolty. He directed a production of Streetcar,
Speaker 3: and Tennessee came to see it.
Speaker 1: What were you in this production, Debora? You were in
Speaker 1: the production?
Speaker 3: I was Blanche. Oh my god, I've been playing Blanche.
Speaker 3: Tennessee came to see it and decided I was his
Speaker 3: favorite Blanche to walk?
Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? Oh my god?
Speaker 3: I am Did you never hear that story? I never
Speaker 3: told you even No.
Speaker 1: I am obsessed with street Car name desire, and so he.
Speaker 3: Wrote about me in the New York Times. You can
Speaker 3: look up Wow. I think if you google Deborah Mooney
Speaker 3: Tennessee Williams in New York Times, it will come up.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that.
Speaker 2: Oh, Michael, I have the article right now. We're going
Speaker 2: to need to link to it when this episode comes out.
Speaker 2: March fourth, nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 3: Well, we don't need to say that, do we.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is unbelievable.
Speaker 1: This is so what an iconic role.
Speaker 2: Stella a star like.
Speaker 1: Star god.
Speaker 2: I can't what I would have paid to see you
Speaker 2: do that part, I'm sure. I'm just so impressed at
Speaker 2: the longevity of the life of an actor, you know,
Speaker 2: when you when we get to be around somebody who
Speaker 2: has worked in theater, television, film for decades, and a
Speaker 2: lot of people don't get that, like a lot of you.
Speaker 2: I know, it does, sadly for whatever reason, either dry
Speaker 2: up or they make a different choice or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: But it's so impressive. How did you come into the
Speaker 2: Shondaland family? Was your first Well?
Speaker 3: I think Shonda must have liked ever would because so
Speaker 3: many of us have been called.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's Tom Amandy's right, Tom Amandy's who plays Governor
Speaker 2: rest in April. Sarah Drew was a lead doctor on
Speaker 2: his An Enemy for years.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think if Shonda says that's what I want.
Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, that's what I think.
Speaker 3: They just call you. I don't think, yeah, you audition.
Speaker 1: You are just a marvel in this role. And it's
Speaker 1: such a you know, we've been watching all these episodes
Speaker 1: back Katie and I to do this podcast, and it's
Speaker 1: just it's such a pleasure watching you work. It is
Speaker 1: so entertaining and so satisfying. You're so remarkable in this role.
Speaker 1: You're just so so good, Deborah so good. Oh did
Speaker 1: you know when you got the role that it was
Speaker 1: going to be an arc?
Speaker 3: No, I did not know that. I didn't have any
Speaker 3: idea what it was going to be.
Speaker 1: You know, we'll be right back. Guys.
Speaker 2: How do you have the most I want to know,
Speaker 2: iconic voice? Were you always raspy or is it from
Speaker 2: just years of theater and smoking at the equity breaks?
Speaker 3: I was saying tenor in high school?
Speaker 2: So you've always had a low voice.
Speaker 3: I've always had a low voice. Yeah. In the choir,
Speaker 3: it was I was in the tenor section, you know,
Speaker 3: I got to be with the boys.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I've been lucky enough to work with you twice
Speaker 2: because you also played the judge in Inventing Anna correct
Speaker 2: And I was so grateful to you because in Rachel
Speaker 2: Deloche Williams scenes that we got to do, which was
Speaker 2: the week before shutdown in twenty twenty, that's right, I
Speaker 2: had to be on the stand on crying and crying
Speaker 2: and crying and crying, and I just had, like Deborah
Speaker 2: Mooney right to my left with her gavel and her
Speaker 2: judge's gown, just holding down the court. But my god, Shonda,
Speaker 2: and rightfully so. I mean, she loves you. You are
Speaker 2: a staple in the Shondaland family.
Speaker 3: Well, I love working for her and with her. I
Speaker 3: think she is so remarkable. I think of her all
Speaker 3: the time, and I think how many people she gives
Speaker 3: work to A lot. She's amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And she's super loyal to the people that she's
Speaker 1: worked with, and she you know, respects their work and
Speaker 1: their work ethic, and she brings them back, she keeps
Speaker 1: them in her in her world, in her circle.
Speaker 3: My late husband was a producer of theater of the
Speaker 3: spoken word, and what he loved was companies, building a company.
Speaker 3: And so to me, Shonda was a perfect, perfect follow
Speaker 3: up what I'd been in with circle rep and having
Speaker 3: a company.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, did it feel so like theater to
Speaker 2: you when you came on the set of Scandal you
Speaker 2: knew the scandal pace and having to be word perfect
Speaker 2: and say things very fast? Did it feel like all
Speaker 2: of your theater training you called upon that a lot.
Speaker 3: I guess, I mean it just seemed that's that's the
Speaker 3: style of this show. That's what we do. You know, Yeah,
Speaker 3: you have to be careful you're not playing the style
Speaker 3: rather than the show. Do you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: If you're doing a farce, you're still that character and
Speaker 3: you still want to play the role, not the farce.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I'm saying? Right right? The character
Speaker 3: is what's important totally.
Speaker 2: How did it feel when you found out as scripts
Speaker 2: kept coming, were you so like, oh my god, this
Speaker 2: is what I'm doing, Like we rigged an election, I'm
Speaker 2: nominated to the Supreme Court? Were you just flabbergasted at
Speaker 2: your storyline?
Speaker 3: There was an episode in her office, in her boardroom.
Speaker 3: I kind of thought, whoa, I think maybe I have
Speaker 3: something to do with all this, you know, maybe I'm
Speaker 3: maybe I'm the one.
Speaker 2: You know, you started to think, oh shit, is Verna
Speaker 2: the person who who is responsible for hiring Becky to
Speaker 2: assassinate the president?
Speaker 3: Yes? Yes, Verna really so juicy?
Speaker 2: How did they fit your glorious hair underneath the bald
Speaker 2: cap and get it to look so good.
Speaker 3: The first time? It took six hours?
Speaker 1: What? Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Went there at like three years in the morning. What
Speaker 3: they got it down to like four?
Speaker 1: Did that help you get into character even more Debora
Speaker 1: being having that bald head and just everything that she
Speaker 1: was going through and having your you had your oxygen
Speaker 1: mask and the tubes, like I'm sure all of that
Speaker 1: sort of helped.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it certainly made me feel kind of frail. Do
Speaker 3: you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Mm hm, I mean watching you take breaths from that
Speaker 1: oxygen mask. It's just it's heartbreaking. In this particular episode
Speaker 1: that we're talking about.
Speaker 2: Today, vice versa. The other side of Verna Thornton too,
Speaker 2: I mean, I love that we're watching a woman who
Speaker 2: is deteriorating in front of our very eyes. You have
Speaker 2: a very terminal illness that is taking over quick you know.
Speaker 2: We see the flashbacks to the scenes where you tell
Speaker 2: your doctor, I I'm being put on the bench tomorrow
Speaker 2: and how long do I have and he says a year,
Speaker 2: maybe two, And we watch this all happen so quickly.
Speaker 2: But the other side of it is how amazing Verna
Speaker 2: Thornton looked in all of her suits and your hair
Speaker 2: all blown out, when you're like sitting at the table
Speaker 2: in Air Force one and you all are making the
Speaker 2: decision to rig the election, You and Hollis and Mellie
Speaker 2: and Olivia, how powerful she was and how like strong,
Speaker 2: I'm ready to do a deal with the devil to
Speaker 2: get my seat. You know that that was the most
Speaker 2: important thing for your career to culminate into a Supreme
Speaker 2: Court justice.
Speaker 3: I just loved playing Erna Thornton, I really did. I
Speaker 3: was so sorry when she got when she was gonna
Speaker 3: get killed off because that, Yeah, I just hated the loser.
Speaker 3: But it was quite spectacular depth too, so.
Speaker 2: It was a great death and a great run.
Speaker 1: Do you remember all of us hanging out at Jeff
Speaker 1: Perry and Linda Lowe's house watched.
Speaker 3: I went to one of them and then I thought,
Speaker 3: I don't think I can watch that with other people.
Speaker 3: I think I better watch it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember the one that you were. We
Speaker 1: had such a great time, but I remember you and
Speaker 1: all of us being so sad and so emotional that
Speaker 1: you were going to be you know that your character
Speaker 1: was being killed off in the in the next episode.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that? And we were all like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it was such a wonderful like gathering. We all
Speaker 1: got to spend time together and it was just.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, it wasn't it wasn't it?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh, it was just it was such a pleasant group
Speaker 3: of people to be with, wasn't it.
Speaker 2: It was a great troop. It was a great real
Speaker 2: lot of theater actors.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, and it was a kind of special time. I
Speaker 3: thought it was a special time in the second season
Speaker 3: because I was new to it the second season, but
Speaker 3: the other people that had been working together were beginning
Speaker 3: to know each other, and there were those of us
Speaker 3: that were coming in for the first time in this season,
Speaker 3: and so it was still biting its way, and yet
Speaker 3: there was enough of having known each other that there
Speaker 3: was this solidity about it.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: I just think it's a real special time when you
Speaker 3: get to do not the first maybe, but early on
Speaker 3: in the theory.
Speaker 2: Yes, and the show was getting successful like the second Yeah,
Speaker 2: like you.
Speaker 3: Said, it was, it was a very exciting time.
Speaker 1: I thought it was.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it totally was.
Speaker 1: Had you watched the show before you were casting it?
Speaker 3: No, I hadn't seen it. I don't watch a lot
Speaker 3: of television. I was busy doing it, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly working.
Speaker 3: Because that was a real busy time.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes when I've done TV shows that I
Speaker 1: haven't watched my work is better because if I've seen
Speaker 1: the show, then I get sort of, you know.
Speaker 2: An idea of what it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially if I like the If I end up
Speaker 1: loving the show, then I have this I put this
Speaker 1: pressure on myself, so I like when I haven't seen it,
Speaker 1: and then I, you know, jump in and do my
Speaker 1: work and do my best.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. And like part of a response to your
Speaker 3: question about getting into the speed and everything like that,
Speaker 3: I wasn't worried about intimidated or anything because I didn't
Speaker 3: know that that's what happened.
Speaker 1: Right right, you were just paced up already.
Speaker 3: Oh I'm gonna have to be real FASTO. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: didn't know.
Speaker 2: We are so lucky to have Verna Thornton, the one
Speaker 2: and only Deberny. On today's episode, we are talking about
Speaker 2: episode two thirteen, which was called Nobody Likes Babies, and
Speaker 2: it aired on February seventh of twenty thirteen, and.
Speaker 1: It was written by Mark Wilding and directed by the
Speaker 1: Tom Verica.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, I had no idea Tom Verica directed
Speaker 2: this episode. It is guest starring Deborah Mooney as Verna Thornton,
Speaker 2: Susan poorfar as Becky Flynn. Dan Mugatinski is James Novak,
Speaker 2: George Newburn is Charlie, Greg Henry is Hollis Doyle.
Speaker 1: Norm Lewis is Senator Edison Davis, Brenda Song as Alyssa,
Speaker 1: Sam McMurray as a US attorney, Pat Wexler Samantha Sloy
Speaker 1: and his Janie, and Colin Douglas as Steve Dougherty.
Speaker 2: And just to jog you all about what happens. And
Speaker 2: then we got to talk to our very own Verna
Speaker 2: Thornton before she leaves the show about her epic epic
Speaker 2: death and destruction and how she does gone crazy on
Speaker 2: this plot line. Synopsis for this episode. When the truth
Speaker 2: comes out that Verna was the one who hired Becky, Olivia,
Speaker 2: still reeling from the betrayal, rallies the team to steal
Speaker 2: David Rosen's evidence in the looming defiance case.
Speaker 1: The pressures on is Verna dies suddenly and James is
Speaker 1: subpoena to appear in court. In two last ditch efforts,
Speaker 1: Abby professes her love to David, and Cyrus considers having
Speaker 1: James murdered before he can testify. Fortunately, James lies on
Speaker 1: the stand and Abby manages to steal the defiance evidence,
Speaker 1: even if it costs her the relationship with David.
Speaker 2: Then, during Verna's funeral, Fits ices out Olivia as we
Speaker 2: learn what really happened in the hospital, Verna confessed about
Speaker 2: defiance and Fitz killed her to prevent her from going public.
Speaker 2: This episode is so freaking epic.
Speaker 1: It's beyond the fact that the that we see fits
Speaker 1: the president kill another character on the show was just
Speaker 1: mind blowing. It's one of the first times that I thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: this show, it's a whole thing on its own, Like
Speaker 1: it's it takes risk, and Seana is not afraid to
Speaker 1: go there. Like I was completely floored when this happened,
Speaker 1: Like when I read this.
Speaker 2: Right, Deborah, do you remember shooting the scenes in this
Speaker 2: episode that you had when you are your character has
Speaker 2: called in David Rosen to tell him that the election
Speaker 2: was rigged, But first your character calls in the president
Speaker 2: because you said you wanted him to hear it from
Speaker 2: Verna first, Right, What the hell was that like?
Speaker 1: To shoot?
Speaker 3: Well, it was pretty incredible. I mean it all felt
Speaker 3: very real that she would have the ancience way on
Speaker 3: her and would decide to come clean, and that she
Speaker 3: would let him. Know first, it makes sense to me.
Speaker 1: How is it working with Tony Goldwyn? Was that a thrill?
Speaker 3: I loved it? I just loved Tony. I mean, oh,
Speaker 3: can you believe me? Up and kills me?
Speaker 2: I mean, and he holds your arms down. It's so awful.
Speaker 3: I helpe get him elected.
Speaker 2: I mean, come, yes, yes, ingrate, ingrate, Yeah, but then
Speaker 2: you did try to get him assassinated?
Speaker 3: Is that? Well? You know?
Speaker 2: This episode is so full. I mean, besides the incredible
Speaker 2: Verna stuff, this episode also has in it this huge epic.
Speaker 2: One of my favorite all time scandal scenes of all
Speaker 2: time is a scene between Dan Bugatinski and Jeff Perry
Speaker 2: and they both have this huge argument where James is
Speaker 2: asking Cyrus, did you rig the election? I've been subpoena
Speaker 2: and I'm supposed to testify and I need to know
Speaker 2: did you or didn't you? And Cyrus says, take off
Speaker 2: all your clothes? How am I supposed to know? If
Speaker 2: you don't, if you're not bugged, if you don't have
Speaker 2: a MIC on you.
Speaker 1: Which Katie you noticed. He says, take off your clothes,
Speaker 1: which is a throwback to when Fitz says to Olivia,
Speaker 1: take off your clothes, but obviously this is a completely
Speaker 1: different context, and.
Speaker 2: So James takes off all of his clothes and then
Speaker 2: he says, you take off your clothes like I don't
Speaker 2: know if you're miked, And so they have this epically long,
Speaker 2: five minute, twelve page one act that they're both naked,
Speaker 2: where Cyrus admits and says, I was never going to
Speaker 2: be president. I'm not pretty enough, I like boys, I'm sure,
Speaker 2: and I don't have the right things to make up
Speaker 2: of a president. But this is the closest I was
Speaker 2: ever going to get that I could be the second best,
Speaker 2: that I would be able to sway some things in
Speaker 2: the White House, that I would be the chief of staff.
Speaker 2: And so I did. I stole the election. It's an
Speaker 2: amazing scene and so beautifully acted by both actors and
Speaker 2: one of my all time favorite favorite favorite acting scenes.
Speaker 1: Oh same, another super super like epic scenes was a
Speaker 1: scene where that you have with Olivia with Kerrie Washington, Deborah,
Speaker 1: how was it? How was it working with Carrie? Had
Speaker 1: you met Carrie before?
Speaker 3: No? I just loved her.
Speaker 1: Oh, you two had a chemistry and the relationship between Olivia.
Speaker 3: Did did I did? I really just adored her? From
Speaker 3: the time I met her. She's some the beautiful woman
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Yes, but the history, you too, created this incredible history.
Speaker 1: It was effortless.
Speaker 2: It seemed like you two had been in each other's
Speaker 2: corners for a long time. Yeah, the hell out of
Speaker 2: each other for a long time. Like even in the
Speaker 2: beginning of this season, no one else knows that Vernon
Speaker 2: Thornton's sick, and Pope is the only one that comes
Speaker 2: and like sits with you in the hospital while you're
Speaker 2: getting your chemo treatment, and she turns off her phone,
Speaker 2: which she never does. And there are so many times
Speaker 2: where Verna gives Olivia Pope advice about like that she
Speaker 2: listened to you, Olivia listened to you.
Speaker 1: But this scene, in this scene in particular, when she
Speaker 1: goes to confront you about because she figures out with
Speaker 1: Opa that you have paid Becky to assassinate the president,
Speaker 1: that scene is just so powerful. But then we also
Speaker 1: learned that Verna was doing it ultimately for the good
Speaker 1: of the country, do you know what I mean? She's like, well,
Speaker 1: if I killed him, then the country will then re
Speaker 1: elect a president that will will be rightly you know, elected,
Speaker 1: just exactly. So of course she decided to kill the president,
Speaker 1: but she was doing it for the good of the country.
Speaker 1: Such a powerful scene. And when Olivia's hearing you say
Speaker 1: those things, and at the end you say something to her,
Speaker 1: you say, chin up, Olivia. It's not like I'm getting
Speaker 1: away with it, you know. Obviously she's on her way
Speaker 1: out of this world. Oh it was just heartbreaking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, Deborah Mooney, you had us in the palm
Speaker 2: of your hands. The other part of this episode, I
Speaker 2: have to mention there's a few. There's the huge Cyrus
Speaker 2: James naked fight, there's the presidential murder of Verna Thornton,
Speaker 2: and then the third for me is that Abby played
Speaker 2: by Darby Stansfield, goes and even though she's in love
Speaker 2: with David Rosen, she says, I love you, has sex
Speaker 2: with him, and when he leaves to go to the
Speaker 2: court for the day, she does end up breaking into
Speaker 2: his safe and stealing the only evidence he has that
Speaker 2: the election was rigged. He has the Cytron card, and
Speaker 2: he comes back to Opa at the end and says,
Speaker 2: Abby Wheelin, you took the card. You took the card.
Speaker 2: She's like, I did it, I did it, and he's like,
Speaker 2: you tricked me. You said I loved you, and she
Speaker 2: says I do. I do love you, David, and he
Speaker 2: basically like, I'm never speaking to you again. I hate you.
Speaker 2: He storms out, and Abby just starts breaking down and says, like,
Speaker 2: I did it. I did get the card. And you
Speaker 2: see that Abby chose to be a gladiator at Opa
Speaker 2: versus being with the love of her life. She makes
Speaker 2: a massive sacrifice to Olivia.
Speaker 3: They were good, strong stories, weren't they.
Speaker 2: Deborah. It's in like all the stuff we're talking about
Speaker 2: happened in one.
Speaker 1: Episodes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, we will be back with more after the break.
Speaker 1: Do you remember, Deborah in previous episodes where you give
Speaker 1: Kate Burton's character Sally Langston Huck's name, saying that Huck
Speaker 1: is the one that is responsible for killing the president.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that? And then Huck gets waterboarded. I
Speaker 1: was always so bummed that I didn't get to act
Speaker 1: with you in I mean, we you know, our characters interacted.
Speaker 3: But I am too, I am too. I would have
Speaker 3: loved that.
Speaker 2: When you shot your last take as Erna, what were
Speaker 2: the feelings, what was the emotion?
Speaker 3: Well, there's certainly a sadness about the character, but there's
Speaker 3: also I think I felt like it had been a
Speaker 3: story well told. I enjoyed doing it. The scripts were good,
Speaker 3: and there's such a satisfaction in getting to do something.
Speaker 1: Like that, and that it's gonna live on, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's gonna live on forever.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. People are rewatching the show now on Hulu and
Speaker 1: just sort of getting reintroduced, and some people are watching
Speaker 1: it for the first time. So Verna's gonna live on forever. Verna.
Speaker 1: How was it shooting that scene where you had to
Speaker 1: be in the coffin? That was so unsettling.
Speaker 2: Because at the end of this episode, the very end
Speaker 2: of the episode, Carrie comes in and says, I did it.
Speaker 2: I've given Edison back the ring, I've called off the engage.
Speaker 2: I don't want to be with him, and I will
Speaker 2: wait for you. Fits. In the beginning of the episode,
Speaker 2: Fitz says to Olivia, I'm leaving, Mellie. It might take
Speaker 2: a minute, it might be dirty, but I'm done. Will
Speaker 2: you wait for me? Will you wait for me? And
Speaker 2: at the end of the episode, at your funeral, she
Speaker 2: goes up to him and she says, I did it, Fits,
Speaker 2: and I will I've decided like I will wait for you,
Speaker 2: And Fitz says, now that he knows that you all
Speaker 2: ring to the election, he says, never mind. No, It's
Speaker 2: one thing to sleep with your mistress, is another thing
Speaker 2: to marry her. He gives like a really low, horrible,
Speaker 2: fucked up blow and Olivia's just devastated because she feels
Speaker 2: so vulnerable and she finally made a choice. And then
Speaker 2: he gets up and gives your eulogy. Oh, I know
Speaker 2: which is over you in this casket, and you look
Speaker 2: fierce as hell, like I was.
Speaker 1: Saying before you so beautiful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, your hair had the most glorious blowout. Your makeup
Speaker 2: looked amazing. I don't know what glorious suit land Polo
Speaker 2: put you in, but you looked incredible.
Speaker 3: I loved that suit that I wore, gorgeous.
Speaker 1: Did you get to keep anything from set?
Speaker 3: No, I didn't really. There was a black skirt that
Speaker 3: I wore that I loved. I did go and find.
Speaker 1: It good good, good good. And so that scene where
Speaker 1: we see Verna in the coffin is sort of we're
Speaker 1: jumping from that scene to the president and then we
Speaker 1: finally see that fits Fitz kills Verna, and we're going
Speaker 1: back and forth from him talking to you and you
Speaker 1: telling him that you guys read the election. And it's
Speaker 1: so powerful because there he is giving your eulogy and
Speaker 1: at the same time we're seeing him like murder you.
Speaker 2: He's just lying. He's saying like all these loving, funny,
Speaker 2: no amazing things about verna.
Speaker 3: Oh. I thought that was a brilliant writing, really, because
Speaker 3: his usualgy is so when you know the truth is
Speaker 3: just so incredible that you could say those things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you ever fall asleep in the casket?
Speaker 3: No? I said, Now, it'll be half closed and half open.
Speaker 3: Is that right, I asked before I went up there,
Speaker 3: and they said yes, And I said, which half? Hey,
Speaker 3: she's got great legs. No, So I knew I was
Speaker 3: going to have some room, and I knew nobody's going
Speaker 3: to be coming up and talking to me because they're
Speaker 3: all out there and the casket was up on a thing,
Speaker 3: so I'm not going to have any visitors. So I
Speaker 3: took my crossword puzzle, my New York Times crossword puzzle
Speaker 3: I took.
Speaker 4: I took all kinds of activities. I have an activity
Speaker 4: bag that I take with me when I got work,
Speaker 4: and I had lots of activities that I could choose from.
Speaker 3: In fact, the camera mat at one boy it said
Speaker 3: something about have you had a hamburger in there? I said, yeah,
Speaker 3: you want bus.
Speaker 2: That's so funny, Debora. So you could just hide it
Speaker 2: in the casket, and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had also because I didn't want to, like
Speaker 3: you said, I'm in a casket.
Speaker 1: No, yeah, you didn't want to think about it too much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Burnon isn't thinking about it.
Speaker 1: Right, Deborah. I do this thing on the podcast where
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with horror movies, and when I looked your
Speaker 1: your work up, I saw that you did an episode
Speaker 1: of Tales from the Crypt.
Speaker 3: Eh. Yes, I had a hatchet in my head.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. You played a character named Ellen and
Speaker 1: Tails from the Crypt. It was one of my favorite shows.
Speaker 1: It was like an anthology show.
Speaker 3: Do you remember that? Do you remember that show? Yes?
Speaker 1: Of course, do you remember that experience? What that was like?
Speaker 3: Oh gosh, yes. First of all, I'm a bit cluster phobe,
Speaker 3: quite cluster phobic, and I had to go out to
Speaker 3: this place I forget where it was a ways away,
Speaker 3: and they cover you totally.
Speaker 1: To make a cast of your face, right.
Speaker 3: A cast of your face, so that they can bury
Speaker 3: the hatchet as.
Speaker 1: It were exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah. That really was terrifying. And so there was that
Speaker 3: to deal with it. And then the day of my
Speaker 3: parents were in town and they came with me and
Speaker 3: they got me all into costume and and they got
Speaker 3: the whole thing on with the hatchet, which was heavy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right in your forehead. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then they called lunch.
Speaker 1: No, Oh my god, I.
Speaker 3: Had to go across the street and eat at a
Speaker 3: Chinese restaurant with a hatchet in my head and I
Speaker 3: had to hold it like this because it was a heavy,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: I had to sit at the table and hold it
Speaker 3: with my parents.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I love that story.
Speaker 2: By Deborah. Okay, so a couple things. One, we got
Speaker 2: a BodyCount edition Verna Thornton. We've had Gideon Wallace got
Speaker 2: stabbed in the neck with scissors, Amanda Tanner was killed
Speaker 2: via injection and then dropped in the Potomac, and now
Speaker 2: Deborah Mooney was murdered by the President himself through I
Speaker 2: guess asphyxiation. Yeah, so we are adding Verna Thornton as
Speaker 2: our third member of the Scandal podcast body Count. And
Speaker 2: another fun fact, this is why this episode is so incredible.
Speaker 2: When Scandal was renewed for a second season, the network
Speaker 2: ABC only ordered thirteen episodes. This episode was originally meant
Speaker 2: to be the season finale, but after receiving high ratings
Speaker 2: within the first few episodes of the season, ABC quickly
Speaker 2: ordered a full twenty two episode season. Oh but this
Speaker 2: episode feels like like anally.
Speaker 3: It does feels like I didn't know that.
Speaker 2: It feels like cliffhangers and wrapping up of intense things
Speaker 2: and and it's jam packed and it's just amazing now
Speaker 2: tweets at the time, tweets with the one I know
Speaker 2: the demoney, Oh, we have a whole like thing going
Speaker 2: on now, we're doing like picture me, like pictures of
Speaker 2: Beyonce just saying Olivia girl, I need help. They saying
Speaker 2: I lip synced. Oh, somebody at the time must have
Speaker 2: been accusing Beyonce of lip singing, which I don't remember
Speaker 2: what was happening either. There was a lot of obvious
Speaker 2: problems at the time of this episode coming out that
Speaker 2: Beyonce was being accused of lip singings. Oh, I think
Speaker 2: the national anthem. If I heard.
Speaker 3: That, I was wondering. I think it might have been
Speaker 3: the national anthem.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, And then a lot of people are tweeting
Speaker 2: pictures in response that Olivia Pope is saying it's handled by.
Speaker 1: All to Beyonce and then thanks girl.
Speaker 2: At Maya La Shawn tweeted, am I the only woman
Speaker 2: who does not watch scandal? Hashtag it won't be hashtag
Speaker 2: guard your heart? Hashtag Olivia Pope is nothing like Judy Smith.
Speaker 1: But you're tweeting with us? Why are you tweeting with us?
Speaker 1: Then listen? Can I just say real quick? If I
Speaker 1: was tweeting right now during this time, I would have
Speaker 1: tweeted that Deborah Mooney was in a production of Street
Speaker 1: Carname Desires Blanche Dubois and Tennessee Williams was there in
Speaker 1: person like my mind it.
Speaker 2: Said she was the greatest Blanche of all the bland.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm going to go to bed with such a
Speaker 1: huge smile on my face and just that makes me
Speaker 1: so so happy. What an incredible experience it certainly was.
Speaker 2: We are so lucky to have you on Unpacking the Toolbox,
Speaker 2: and the Gladiators were so lucky that you were Thornton.
Speaker 2: Because the second season is really when the show took
Speaker 2: off and when the ratings came and Scandal became what
Speaker 2: it is, and I am convinced wholeheartedly that is so
Speaker 2: much in part because of you and your performance and
Speaker 2: your portrail.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with you.
Speaker 2: Well, come on over, have some brunch, right, I would
Speaker 2: love that Deborah Mooney brunch.
Speaker 1: But wait, bring the champagne.
Speaker 2: But also gladiators. I just want to let you know
Speaker 2: real quick. Next up, episode two fourteen, which is called
Speaker 2: Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. We don't remember what it's about, but
Speaker 2: don't worry. We'll be watching it to make sure we
Speaker 2: do remember and can talk to you all about all
Speaker 2: the behind the scenes goings on. Thank you for listening,
Speaker 2: and one more massive, massive round of applause for the
Speaker 2: one and only Deborah Mooneyah, gentlemen, the greatest of the great.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys for joining us on Unpacking the Toolbox.
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate,
Speaker 1: or leave us a review.
Speaker 2: Scandal is executive produced by Sandy Bailey, alex Alcea, Lauren Homan,
Speaker 2: Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Speaker 2: Vince de Johnny, with music by Chad Fisher.
Speaker 1: Scandal is a production of ABC Signature, and you can
Speaker 1: follow along by rewatching Scandal on Hulu.
Speaker 2: Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in
Speaker 2: partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you subscribe to your favorite shows.