1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: me Ben, and we're joined as always with our super 7 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, you are you. 8 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this the stuff they 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Follow us on Twitter. I 10 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:48,599 Speaker 1: guess we should say. Yeah, um, let's see. So we 11 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: have a Twitter account for the show, and I think too. 12 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: Two of our hosts here are on Twitter and varying degrees. Matt, 13 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: you're not on Twitter. Maybe I was at some point. 14 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: I don't remember the account if I do have one. Yeah, 15 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 1: I have an account, but I barely touch it. Um. 16 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: I don't even lurk. Really, I just see tweets three 17 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: posted on Instagram and other parts of the internet. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 18 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: I'm I'm probably out of um. Out of the four 19 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: of us, maybe not the five of us, fellow conspiracy 20 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: realists listening today, you may be much more active, but 21 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: out of our host production team, I'm probably the most 22 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 1: active on Twitter. Uh, it's just an e. It has 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: some advantages that work despite the fact that it is 24 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: a dumpster fire very often. Uh, you might love Twitter, 25 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: you might hate it. You probably hate it, but you've 26 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: definitely heard about it. But there's lovely people in there. 27 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: Ben The only way I interact with Twitter, as I 28 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: go to I'm signed in, I guess as our company, 29 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: and I go to the notifications thing and I just 30 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: look at the usually awesome, wonderful things, cool people are saying. Right, Yeah, 31 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: we have a very we have some great leads, we 32 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: have some great listeners on Twitter, and we're you know, 33 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: knock on wood as they say, I hope this is 34 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: what I don't know, but knock on wood, as they say. 35 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: We we have carved out with your help, folks, we 36 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:23,920 Speaker 1: have carved out actually relatively nice, cordial and informative place 37 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: in our our little corner of Twitter. But a lot 38 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: of Twitter is not like that. You know. It's a 39 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: lot of Twitter is hot, takes maybe some shrill over reactions, 40 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: but then every so often really meaningful news that some 41 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:47,920 Speaker 1: mainstream outlets would ignore otherwise. You know, like Twitter was 42 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 1: instrumental to the Arab Spring Twitter has become a way 43 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: of circumventing oppression by the state at certain times. It's 44 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: been a way of communicating during disasters and am agencies, 45 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: but also it has some dangerous stuff going on right now. 46 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: If you think about it, Twitter has more than four 47 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:14,799 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million active users, and those numbers get 48 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: kind of kind of loosey goosey, right, They changed day 49 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: to day. But that means if Twitter was a country, 50 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: it would be the third largest in the world, just 51 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: after China and India. And with that many people evolved. 52 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: Is no otter. Twitter has become the subject of multiple conspiracies, No, Matt, 53 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: I feel like at this point, before we lose people, 54 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: we should say we're going somewhere with this, right like 55 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: we have we have a reason we're talking about Twitter, 56 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: and even if you're not on like on Twitter, this 57 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: will still be interesting in some surprising ways. So here 58 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: are the facts. And it's not all about Elon Musk. 59 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: There's a little bit of that in here, but it's 60 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: not all about him. This is a this is a 61 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: bigger issue with Twitter for sure. I mean, Twitter began, 62 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: like many startups, as an idea, uh in the mind 63 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: of an undergrad. Uh. This one in particular at n 64 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: y U. A guy you've probably heard of, though he's 65 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: been less part of the story as of late, Jack Dorsey. Uh. 66 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: In two thousand six, he shared the idea of online 67 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: communication with his co workers at a place. It was 68 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: actually an early podcasting company called Odio, which just to 69 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: me sounds like odious audio. It doesn't It sounds like 70 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: bad hot takes in audio farm. Yeah. And and think 71 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: about that too. A podcasting company in two thousand and six, 72 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,120 Speaker 1: that's the term hadn't even coined, had it or it 73 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: was maybe right around that time. Yeah, it's it's right after. 74 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 1: It's like two years after the term is coined. There's 75 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: already a company if you look into it. Journalist named 76 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: Ben Hammersley apparently coined the term in The Guardian in 77 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: February of two thousand four. But a podcasting company in 78 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: two thousand and six, that's so nuts to me. Uh, 79 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: this is not this is before you and I were 80 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: working at How Stuff Works. This like, I don't think 81 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: I was in the US at this time. I was. 82 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,159 Speaker 1: I was working at That Works in two thousand and six, 83 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 1: all right, but we weren't really doing podcasts yet I 84 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: think until around two thousand eight, right, yeah, because I 85 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: joined up in two thousand seven, I think, so, yeah, 86 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: this is nuts. So Jack Dorsey is in a very 87 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: pioneering forward facing company and he comes up with this idea. 88 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: He basically says, what if we had a social media 89 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: platform where people couldn't say as much at once? What if? 90 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: What if the world was one big group text? Yeah, 91 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: And of course you know, it was the era, not 92 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: that we're out still in it. Now we're more in 93 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: the era of making up words that don't exist. But 94 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: back then it was more about leaving out vowels. Um, 95 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: so it was deep. Probably you'd still say it Twitter, 96 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: but if you look at it now, be more like 97 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: Twitter Twitter double T for d W T T r um. 98 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: I gotta say, I know I've said this before, but 99 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: a good friend of the show, uh Matt Riddle Um. 100 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: He he was always kind of my shirp for new 101 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: tech and you know, culture stuff and turn me onto 102 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: records and movies and all kinds of neat stuff. But 103 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: he's the first one that told me what Twitter was. 104 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 1: And I was beyond skeptical. I was like, that sounds ridiculous. 105 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: Who is going to use that. Why wouldn't you want 106 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 1: to say as much as you can say. But the 107 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: the what seems like a bug on the onset actually 108 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:00,160 Speaker 1: becomes the feature that editing that's built in is part 109 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: of it. It's about pithy, quick responses. But the thing 110 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:04,920 Speaker 1: that he pointed out which I didn't get and which 111 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: really required that adoption, was that it's going to be 112 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: a bird's eye no pun intended, view into the lives 113 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 1: of famous people that's gonna be unfiltered. And that's really 114 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: kind of what made it take off was that it 115 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: was this, you know, getting rid of the pr person Um, 116 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 1: it's it's this these direct takes, you know, from people 117 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: that you would not otherwise really understand what their life 118 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: was about. Well, yeah, and that's a great business idea, 119 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: right if you could sell enough people on it, which 120 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: Jack did. But just imagining Twitter in the beginning as 121 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: a base camp, campfire, I'm trying to think about Monday 122 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: dot com or one of these like slack channels, Like 123 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: that's kind of kind of how it began, right, an 124 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: internal company talking to themselves. But like, right, but that 125 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: was it, right, just how Facebook started as like college campus. Yeah, yeah, 126 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: so like the uh. Friend of the showcase e Pegram 127 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: and I had extensive conversations about this, talking about the 128 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: recursive loop of discourse on the Internet, on social platforms, 129 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: Twitter and most social media. The best way to think 130 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: of it is two mirrors facing one another, right, creating 131 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: endless reflections, and its that that purport to be that 132 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: purport to be original, and the I have this in 133 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: the not it's the primary the primary advantage of Twitter 134 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: is is yes, the idea of unfiltered access, but I 135 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: would go a bit further. We'll we'll talk about this 136 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: in today's episode. I'll go a bit further and say 137 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: it's not the access really, if you think about it, 138 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: it's a Faustian bargain. And what you're saying is I 139 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: will get this insight, get this possible look past the 140 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: filters of spin and past the marketing and the pr 141 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: and the agents and the managers, and in return I 142 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 1: run the risk that one day I will be exposed 143 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: in a similar manner. It's kind of like the stone 144 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: chair in Black Monday Murders, which we keep I keep 145 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 1: bringing up anyway, but now everybody's got one, and everybody 146 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: everybody's in the stone chair. Everybody's a micro celebrity, you know, 147 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: like the micro system, because that's what Twitter was called, right, 148 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: micro blogging in the beginning, And like you know, I 149 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: was intensely skeptical. I was thinking, this is so limiting. 150 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 1: Surely people wants more nuanced consideration of ideas, and I 151 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: was very wrong. Do you think it predicted the decaying 152 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: attention span of of human beings or maybe caused it 153 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: to some degree? I don't know. Yeah, it's a bit 154 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: chicken and egg back when eggs were cheaper. It's it's 155 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: tough because we we know that there's still very um 156 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: there's still very nuanced, very intelligent conversation on Twitter. But 157 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: like a lot of social media, it is what you 158 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: make it, and you're kind of fighting this fight where 159 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,959 Speaker 1: you you attempt to curate what you want to see, 160 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 1: what you want to think about, versus what this private 161 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: entity wants you to see, what it wants you to 162 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: think about. And that's where the story kind of that 163 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: that's where we get to write. I just want to say, 164 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 1: there's a really interesting example, like a perfect illustration of 165 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: this that we're going to talk about. When it comes 166 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 1: to a certain reporters reporting via Twitter, on the Twitter 167 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: files that you see both of those things happening at 168 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: the same time. Ben, It's really interesting. Yeah, it's a 169 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: it's a dangerous symphony. Right. So so back to our 170 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: buddy Jack right. Jack is right now is kind of 171 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: like a pre MySpace Tom, you know. And like we said, 172 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: he's making this as a pet project for his colleagues 173 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 1: at odio. Right, you can send your l A L 174 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: O L S L m aos to each other anyway, 175 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 1: that guy Isaiah and marketing is hilarious and so on 176 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: and so on. And then in July fifteen, two thousand six, 177 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 1: this gets introduced to the public. And this is kind 178 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: of like when Facebook no longer required you to be 179 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: at you know, attending a certain institution or any academic 180 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: institution at all. And during the first few months the 181 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: website gets something like tweets every twenty four hours. This 182 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 1: would be the Matt Riddle age. We love Matt Riddle 183 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: on this show. So Matt, if you're listening, shout out. 184 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,600 Speaker 1: This is when the early adopters, like the Jonathan Strickland's 185 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: of the world are getting into Twitter. And in just 186 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: a year that number trebles. It grows to six deep thousand, tweets. Uh. 187 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: And then Twitter goes to south By Southwest just like 188 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know, that's right, folks. 189 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: They were thinking, yeah, yeah, we're they were they were 190 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: thinking of a show that didn't exist, and they said, 191 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,439 Speaker 1: we've got to be like this show. But south By 192 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: Southwest was a game changer for Twitter, right, Yeah, just 193 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: two years on, the service just absolutely exploded, you know, 194 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: from sixty tweets a day to three hundred thousand tweets 195 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: a day. Uh. And then two years after that and 196 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: we're talking fifty million tweets a day. How Yah, That's 197 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: what I'm saying, like, how do you you know? And 198 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: I guess this is also you know, Twitter really is 199 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,239 Speaker 1: what kind of popularized or maybe even you know, mainstream 200 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: the hashtag because that was the only way you could 201 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: kind of um filter all of that insane amount of 202 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,320 Speaker 1: information you know, around categories or you know, trending topics 203 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: or whatever it might be with a simple tag that 204 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: was just you know, uh number sign and a word. 205 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: And it was at first, like I remember not understanding 206 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: the you know, computer science e part of it, but 207 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: it really was a way of categorizing all those things 208 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: and you could search for things by hashtag. Maybe the 209 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: search features weren't quite as robust at first, but that 210 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: ultimately became very important, especially when we start talking about, 211 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: you know, some of those game changing, very important uses 212 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,520 Speaker 1: of Twitter that actually had ramifications in a global, you know, 213 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: political way. Yeah, I think it's important to remember that 214 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: these aren't I don't like a lot of social media 215 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: posts on other platforms, a post becomes like a piece 216 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,839 Speaker 1: of content that is used, and then a bunch of 217 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: people comment on it, and maybe that original user comments 218 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: a couple of times. It's in my mind, Twitter is 219 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: one ongoing conversation that like begins that usually with one 220 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,959 Speaker 1: tweet or one picture or something like that, and then 221 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: it it sprawls. Like the Twitter conversations become conversations, not 222 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: just comments. Right, there's a there's a very big difference 223 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: between the comments section in a place and then a 224 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: Twitter conversation where people are adding each other and then 225 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: having splinter conversations. You see the best and the worst 226 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,240 Speaker 1: of people and of robots. But but also I think 227 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: inherent in what you're describing, Matt, is that limited uh 228 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: length of the individual communications because it allows other people 229 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: to fill in those gaps. And either continue the conversation 230 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: add their bit in a way that the original poster 231 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: couldn't have possibly just by the very fact of the 232 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: limited number of characters. And that's where you get the spiciness. Yeah, 233 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: to Internet characters, you could start threading things, right, You'll see, 234 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: I've read there's one amazing, uh, one amazing story that 235 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: always stays with me from this lady who goes on 236 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: an ill faded journey with uh sex worker and the 237 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: sex workers boyfriend and the sex workers pimp, who are 238 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: two different dudes, and this thing this goes viral and 239 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: it's a very long story. It's well written, it's well told, 240 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: but it's a ton of tweets at only two characters 241 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: at a time. And over the past almost twenty years now, 242 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: seventeen years, Twitter has in a very real, very weird way, 243 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: change the world, or at least it's had some hot 244 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: takes about the world changing. This is where you see 245 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: people pre TikTok arguing that Earth is flat, or the 246 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: moon is fake, or you're hallucinating your ring finger or whatever. 247 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: Right that just yeah, but it fits right. Everybody looked 248 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: at their hand do that. So yeah, so that gives 249 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: us that unfiltered access the public figures celebrities and celebrity 250 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: worship is gross, but it's a big part of why 251 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: it's Twitter works. And this also gives a lot of 252 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: wholesome interaction and a lot of stuff the old Internet 253 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: would call cringe, like the President of the United States 254 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: talking trash right, no filters, lots of typos misspelled, gets 255 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: typos pointed out, doubles down and says no, I'm meant 256 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: to say co fefe, and people who understand what I'm 257 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: saying get what I mean because God's coming. Yeah, God 258 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: forbid I make a typo. Um. And also, I admit 259 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: I loved cafefe. I loved it. I was I was 260 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: walking around like I was bugging Matt going by and 261 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: just like whispering the same way that Marvel characters say 262 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: hell hell, Hydra still have nightmares spent. But that's fine. 263 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: But but it's interesting because we've also watched the previous 264 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: administration for the first time use Twitter as a platform 265 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: to get messaging out while the while they were in office. Right, 266 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: so interesting, there's so many different uses of a platform 267 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: like this. Well, you know, with the celebrity unfiltered stuff, 268 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: that's all fun. And games. Right, But when you start 269 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 1: having a head of state communicate in such an unfiltered 270 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: direct way, that can have real ramifications that even members 271 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,120 Speaker 1: of that administration are not crazy about a hundred percent, right. 272 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: And remember the president before the Twitter president uh had 273 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: there was a huge controversy about whether or not that 274 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 1: guy could keep his BlackBerry, right because people were worried 275 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: about security. Yeah, Pepperdge farm remembers, and so this, uh, 276 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: this is nuts because just picture it. Now, someone who 277 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: literally works at the United Nations doing important stuff is 278 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: still there. They're experiencing that Matt level co f F 279 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: a PTSD. They're like, I'm in charge of trying to 280 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: save millions of lives, and now I have to go 281 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: check in Twitter to see whether or not the president 282 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: of the US is going to launch a nuke, right, 283 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: I have to. Let's let's hope he's in a good 284 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: mood today. And I mean, you know, those ramifications they 285 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: were talking about could result in somebody else launching a 286 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,679 Speaker 1: nuke because of a typo or because you know what 287 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: I mean. Like, it just really removes the rains entirely 288 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: from the geopolitical stallion, if you will, I'm reminded of 289 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: our conversation with Dan Harmon when he was talking about 290 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: how one of the only things that made him feel 291 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: better in the time of the Trump presidency was if 292 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: if the president was having a bad day visually on Twitter, Right, 293 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: So if there was a visual representation of a bad day, 294 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: which you know, confounded me at the time, but it 295 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: makes I guess it makes sense. It's just it's so 296 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: strange to me to think how much power this this 297 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: thing had us. Yeah, and this again, uh, probably the 298 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:08,879 Speaker 1: best comparison for Twitter is, uh, that's comparison for a 299 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: lot of things. Is the Sorcerer's apprentice in Fantasia, right 300 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: to build a better mop, uh, and the mops get 301 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: out of control. The mops are the tweets, you know, 302 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,320 Speaker 1: And it's it's not even like the tech behind a 303 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: platform like Twitter as somehow next level or anything. It's 304 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: it's text. It's the simplest. I mean, would maybe remember 305 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: when you couldn't even put a picture on Twitter. It 306 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: had to be like a link to a picture. So 307 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: it really is just the highest you know, end of 308 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: the tech is all of that organizing stuff that I'm 309 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: talking about earlier, but in general, compared to like say 310 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: Instagram or Facebook that has all kinds of different channels 311 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: and images and things like that. Twitter is dirt simple. 312 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: It was really just a matter of Dorsey being the 313 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: first to market with a thing that caught on and 314 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: then became those uh, those brooms or mops or whatever 315 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: that from the source or as apprentice m Yeah, and 316 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: you know, with this, this episode has probably given me 317 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: a long one. It might end up being a two parter. 318 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: But we're we're laying the land here, right. We want 319 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: you to know the background. Uh, and let's before we 320 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: go to the break, let's talk a little bit about 321 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: the recent changes. The big, big recent change in Twitter 322 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: happened in October of twenty two. Through a various series 323 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: of negotiations, misadventures, and poison pills, a now fifty one 324 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: year old Emerald mine Air uh named Elon Musk, finalized 325 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: a deal to buy Twitter for forty four billion US dollars. 326 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: You can find him there now. Uh. He is very active. 327 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:54,479 Speaker 1: He's tweeting everything from memes to political stances, ideological stuff 328 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: updates on the Twitter platform. He responds to critics and 329 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:04,240 Speaker 1: fans alike. Let's go ahead and read latest tweet because 330 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: you know, we want him to get his money's worth here. Uh. 331 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:12,120 Speaker 1: Elon Musk also, of course CEO famously of Tesla and 332 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: very involved with PayPal and so on. Um he just 333 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: an hour ago he said, gig of Berlin is the 334 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: machine that builds the machine. Cool. I have to do 335 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 1: some digging on that. Hold on, guys, I've got a 336 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: uh someone here that says Elon Musk, Yes, totally me, 337 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: totally Elon. Is that is that Elon Musk? Is that 338 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,439 Speaker 1: the one sounds like him? Yeah, it's kind a picture 339 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: of him. He used to see it used to say 340 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: King Twitch or something like that was what he changed 341 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: his little about me too. Can I just add really 342 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: quickly when you say he finalized that forty four billion 343 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: dollar deal, he essentially was forced to put his money 344 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,880 Speaker 1: where his mouth was because he you know, made all 345 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: this you know, fuss about how he's gonna buy twere 346 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: and essentially ended up getting forced to buy it for 347 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: a pretty inflated rate. Uh. And we're gonna get to, 348 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: obviously what happened when he started taking charge, some of 349 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: which was his fault and some of which is just 350 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: the nature of a platform that maybe is no longer 351 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: the newest kid on the block. Yeah, Twitter has had 352 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: historically a very difficult time with monetization, which is, you know, 353 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 1: the fancy capitalist word for how do we make this 354 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: thing that people like also make money for us. Twitter 355 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: has been very valuable to a lot of people, activist, journalists, 356 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: so on, but it is not been really delivering money 357 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: for the the investors and the capitalists involved. A lot 358 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: of Musk sought to change that. Very forward looking investor 359 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: and champion of various kinds of technology SpaceX would be 360 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: one of the most exciting things there. But as soon 361 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 1: as he acquired Twitter in you are right now, it's 362 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: it's kind of a poison pill that was given to him. 363 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: Um check out check out poison pill if you want 364 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: to understand more about how those deals get sneaky and snarky. 365 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: Shortly after he gets Twitter, he becomes embroiled in a conspiracy. 366 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,639 Speaker 1: And that is our episode today. What the heck are 367 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 1: the Twitter files? We're gonna pause for word from our 368 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: sponsors and we'll be back. Here's where it gets crazy. 369 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 1: December twenty twenty two, not too long ago, just a 370 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: few months after Ony taking ownership of Twitter. Like we said, 371 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: he got ahold of it in October and Elon Musk 372 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: starts sending things to journalists because now he has the 373 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 1: keys to the car, right he has he he has 374 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: bought the tesla that is Twitter, and he's in the 375 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: driver's seat and he is able to go through a 376 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: out of stuff that you could only access if you 377 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: own the company. And so he reaches out to these 378 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: journalists and he says, I got behind the curtain, I'm 379 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: in the nuts and bolts, I'm in the weeds. I've 380 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: got the I am the inside source now right, And 381 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: I want you journalists, veterans that I respect. I want 382 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: you to look at all this stuff. I'm gonna give you. 383 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: I'm gonna give it to you for free, exclusive access, 384 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: and all I ask is that you publish it on 385 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: Twitter first. Very meta, right and not a bad coffee, 386 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: not a deal breaker. It's if you're a journalist, that's 387 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: a hard thing to say no to, right. Yeah. And 388 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: he reached out. I mean he respected these journalists because 389 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: there they were each excellent in their field, like just 390 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: each one is made of excellence, and uh man, when 391 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: they did it, it wouldn't be cool to be made 392 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: of excellence. Um well, I like it. It's a motto 393 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,959 Speaker 1: for something, and I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think, 394 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: give the funniest product. Yeah, this is good. Oh yeah, 395 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: Miller like made of excellence. The beer is so good 396 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,360 Speaker 1: you can drink it with your mouth. Okay, Sorry, Well 397 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,880 Speaker 1: I don't know what my point was. He reached out 398 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: to legitimate people who would legitimize UH the things that 399 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: he was fighting, right, who would lend credibility to the 400 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: story that Ellen wanted to tell through these documents. Yeah, 401 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 1: and I mean he was, in theory, delivering on a 402 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: promise that he made before finishing that acquisition. He has 403 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 1: always been an advocate of free speech except where it 404 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: concerns him. UM and he believed that censorship on the 405 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: platform had been motivated politically or the very least ideologically, 406 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: UM and he assisted in releasing this treasure trove information 407 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: including internal Slack messages and emails from officials top top 408 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: folks of the company that confirmed UH some key decisions 409 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: decisions to suppress certain new stories, for example one on 410 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: the eve of the U. S presidential election UM that 411 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: concerned Joe Biden, concerned damaging information about Joe Biden. These 412 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: files were also showing certain inner workings that discussed banning 413 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: former US President Donald Trump from the platform entirely after 414 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: the followers of that president attacked the capital um of 415 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: the United States on January six one. And you know, 416 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,359 Speaker 1: we know that it was ultimately argued that he used 417 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:37,360 Speaker 1: that platform to encourage that to a degree, and that 418 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: could be seen as violation of the terms and services 419 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: of Twitter. But we'll get into that a bit more 420 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: down the road. Yeah, yeah, I'm not defending it. But again, 421 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: is just is like yolo, you know, it's just just 422 00:26:53,960 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: go for it. The memes alone. I should, I I should, 423 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: and be so tickled by that. I think I've lost 424 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 1: touch with reality, to be honest with you. Uh, And 425 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: that's what Twitter is all about. So isn't that funny? 426 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: It's simultaneously about being hyper in touch with reality, but 427 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,240 Speaker 1: depending on the echo chamber that you tune into, it 428 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: can make you completely detached from reality. Again, it as 429 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: a tool in your arsenal can be very useful, but 430 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: if you're just fully down the Twitter rabbit hole in 431 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: a particular direction, can isolate you from everything else completely. 432 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: One brilliant thing about Twitter is that it weaponizes and 433 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: exacerbates some of the cultic indoctrination practices we've talked about 434 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 1: for years. One of the big ones being uh. And 435 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: this is just a very specific example. As we're moving 436 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: through this, one of the big ones being the use 437 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: of jargon, the character limit that existed for so long, 438 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: not like required you to use abbreviations, to use acronyms, 439 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: right to use shortened slang. And this kind of jargon 440 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: gives people an inclusive feeling of them versus us feeling, 441 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: which further pushes them toward extreme beliefs. And I'm not 442 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: necessarily talking about terrorism or like the Black Hand or 443 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,439 Speaker 1: any any kind of stuff like that. What I'm talking 444 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: about it like it could be. It could be people 445 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: talking about teken, it could be people talking about philosophy. 446 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: It just encourages the rabbit holing, the nicheness of it all. 447 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: And that's why, that's why the black box is so 448 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: important and so scary. Twitter is very much a black box. 449 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: That's what Elam Musk love him or had Um wanted 450 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: to try to fix. At least that's what he said. 451 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: So he releases eight loose installments of what we call 452 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: the Twitter Files. So the first is something a lot 453 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: of people have asked us about on the show in 454 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: the past, which is the Hunter Biden laptop controversy. This 455 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 1: is called an October surprise. Right right before an election, 456 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: you want to release a story that puts your um, 457 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: your opponent in the race in a bad light, right 458 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: at the very least on the defensive, you know, big time, 459 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: because it sucks tell the air out of their particular 460 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: room and forces them to address that instead of doing 461 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: the important bits that you should be doing on the 462 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: eve of an election. Are very close to an election, right, 463 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: If you're responding, you're not progressing exactly exactly. That's a 464 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: really good way to think about it. Ben, Like on 465 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: a timeline moving forward, you can't talk about the new 466 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: thing that is going to get you to the next place. 467 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: You gotta keep addressing this day gum thing about my 468 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: son and a laptop and Ukraine and access to the president. 469 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: Which but at the same time, guys, I gotta tell you, 470 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: looking more into this um, it doesn't um. It doesn't 471 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: feel credible at all at first when you start diving 472 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: into it, because like, wait, that happened. Wait then that happened, 473 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: and then you start to go wait a second, hold 474 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: one smoke crack. Yeah, and you know what, there do 475 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: they make the best decisions. I'm not saying they're bad people. 476 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: I'm just saying sometimes they don't make the best decisions. 477 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: And maybe we do an episode on that, right, I 478 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: think I think we should. I think it's due diligence 479 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: and it's time because at the beginning, you know, it 480 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: was so politicized that people were being very tribal about 481 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: it and we didn't have the ability to look objectively 482 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: at the facts and the allegations of conspiracy, which is 483 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,080 Speaker 1: what this show is all about. So now we can, 484 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: and we want to thank everybody listening for your patients. 485 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: Everyone has written to us about this. We wanted to 486 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 1: make sure that we had the facts right and we 487 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: weren't falling for smoke and mirrors, which is a huge 488 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: part of this. But hey, shout out to anyone of 489 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: those journalists who did work on the Twitter files if 490 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: you want to, we'd love to discuss it with you 491 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: in a full episode. And so the idea the laptop controversy, 492 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: just in the headline, like the log line of this 493 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: as a film, is that a guy named Hunter Biden, 494 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: the son of Joe Biden, who is the U S President, 495 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: as we record, uh had a laptop and it was 496 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: found abandoned at a computer shop in the state of Delaware. 497 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: It was taken there by somebody. It was taken there 498 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: by somebody, and according to according to Rudy Giuliani, former 499 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: mayor of New York and lawyer for Donald Trump for 500 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:54,800 Speaker 1: a time, this laptop contained evidence that the Biden dynasty 501 00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 1: was crooked and in bed with the government of Ukraine. Interesting, 502 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: this is very helpful for Vladimir Putin, right, and the 503 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: rationale for the invasion of Ukraine, Well, the second invasion 504 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: of Ukraine. The first one was taking Crimea and the 505 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: world didn't do dick about it. But well, let's talk 506 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: about what what the allegation was there. And the concept 507 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: is that Hunter Biden was attempting to sell access to 508 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: his father, right, so like, to the highest echelons of 509 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: US government for generally business interests in Ukraine. Yeah, and 510 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: this is something that has the the idea of influence 511 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: and lobbying. As we know, it's it's a very murky space, right, 512 00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: So again we're gonna do an episode on this. What 513 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,320 Speaker 1: you need to know now, if you've ever heard of 514 00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: this controversy, is that the laptop was late are verified 515 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: as belonging to this guy Hunter Biden, and some of 516 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,720 Speaker 1: the emails found on the laptop were authenticated. So the 517 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: first Twitter files installment focuses on the fallout from this. 518 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: There's a story that runs in the New York Post, 519 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: which is a legit source of news, and this story 520 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: is based on files from that laptop. And the journalist 521 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: at the Post say, we got this information from Rudy 522 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 1: Giuliani and from a guy who works with Trump named 523 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: Steve Bannon. Now this is before Steve Bannon became radioactive 524 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: and got provably, provably included in attempting to orchestrate the 525 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: overthrow of democracy in the United States. That was his conspiracy. 526 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: It's not a theory. He tried it. It didn't work. 527 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:03,719 Speaker 1: I'm sure he has a podcast, a Twitter and Facebook. 528 00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,880 Speaker 1: This is the truth thing though, right, every everybody get 529 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: Nobody comes out looking good on this one. Twitter and 530 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: Facebook both limited the ability for users to share the 531 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: laptop story. They purposely because they control the FAWCET, right, 532 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,719 Speaker 1: so they purposely turned the FAWCET down and all the 533 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: sudden people were getting shadow banned and they couldn't they 534 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: couldn't share this story. Twitter even this is true. Twitter 535 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 1: even suspended the New York Post account. It just really quickly. 536 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: Shadow banning is where you're not kicked off the platform, 537 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: but your reach is severely limited, isn't that right? Yeah, 538 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,680 Speaker 1: and you're not really made aware of it, but you 539 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: just kind of can tell, because I don't know, how 540 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: can you tell? I guess I guess you can look 541 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,240 Speaker 1: at your your analytics and to see that your posts 542 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: are not reaching as many people as they used to, 543 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: and if it gets to a certain level that that 544 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 1: would fall under being shadow bands or you could use 545 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: a second account. There are a couple of different ways. Yeah. Uh, 546 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: and that's the that's the second installment of the Twitter Files, 547 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,560 Speaker 1: all about shadow banning. But soap this uh this first 548 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: one right Uh? The platforms themselves say, hey, we kind 549 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: of made mistakes, right we We just had editorial concerns 550 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: because we didn't know whether or not this story was true, 551 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: whether it was like propaganda due to the election. But 552 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 1: the real sticky part, and I'm just gonna refer Matt 553 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 1: Tybee's Twitter feed, is how I learned about this. I'm 554 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: sure you guys did too originally, but in those like 555 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:46,280 Speaker 1: short messages, right, they were just cascading. And in there 556 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: he talks about how and shows images from the Twitter 557 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: fives files, the emails about how internally Twitter gets requests 558 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: from political parties. Both parties are the two major ones 559 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,440 Speaker 1: in in the US to suppress a story or to 560 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 1: like prevent a story from getting big, and they take 561 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: they take requests from both sides. But I think one 562 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: of the major things that it pointed out with regards 563 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: to especially this story, is that the Democratic Party was 564 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: way more effective for one reason or another, whether it 565 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: was personal beliefs of the you know, individual employees working 566 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: at Twitter or Twitter itself and their policies, was they 567 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: were tending to allow those actions to be taken. The 568 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 1: suppressing of a story in this one in particular, and 569 00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 1: with owning the doorway, with owning the platform, that becomes 570 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: very close to pushing the election right to fixing fixing 571 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: the match. And they're the tech company side of this 572 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: is they will say, look, we got we got burned 573 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: because we fell for the Russian hack. We we fell 574 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: for these d n C email leak things. We didn't 575 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,760 Speaker 1: want to we didn't want to make the same mistake 576 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: getting but as any long time conspiracy realist knows, when 577 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:08,760 Speaker 1: you attempt to ban something in this way, you create 578 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 1: the Streisand effect, uh, and that that's named after Barbra 579 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 1: Streisand who tried to get people to stop sharing a picture. 580 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,280 Speaker 1: And of course, at being the Internet, everybody went nuts 581 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: and way more people shared the picture or something right, yeah, 582 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: or the or the Cobra effect that we talked about 583 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 1: in ridiculous history. Things get out of hand. So if 584 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 1: you were on the fence about whether or not there 585 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 1: was a conspiracy, then you see Twitter shutting down any 586 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,319 Speaker 1: conversation about it that can prove to you that there 587 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,720 Speaker 1: is a conspiracy afoot. And just within a few days, 588 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 1: Twitter reversed to that block and changed its policies internally 589 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: unhacked materials. So this would be a tweak I imagine 590 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: to the terms of service, but they were still blocking it. Essentially, 591 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: it's just now there's a pop up with that states 592 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,280 Speaker 1: you know their policy on hacked materials. But the question 593 00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: becomes was the laptop hack? Like did that constitute hacked materials? 594 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: There's a lot it's it gets so complicated, but like 595 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 1: it was basically Twitter justifying their actions because to answer 596 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: the question that you just asked, Matt would require knowledge 597 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: of how that laptop was obtained, whether it was had 598 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: to be decrypted or broken into in order to get 599 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: that information. Is that the Is that the deal? Yeah? 600 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 1: I mean that, Tom, in my mind, that's what's happening here. 601 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,759 Speaker 1: At least if you read through the the emails that 602 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: are out there and exist, it feels like they were 603 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: trying to come up with a reason to keep the 604 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: materials either difficult to access or impossible to access. Right, 605 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:57,919 Speaker 1: So again, what's what's the motivation? Is ideological? Right? And 606 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,319 Speaker 1: if Twitter were in deed a public square and not 607 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,799 Speaker 1: a private entity, the answer would be clear. One must 608 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: be transparent. But that's that's the sticky wicket will get 609 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: to in a second. But also just there whether they 610 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: did anything about it, uh, to you know, you're liking Matt, 611 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:20,760 Speaker 1: or to anyone's liking or in a really effective way. 612 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: There was a public apology at the very least, So 613 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: doesn't something CEO is typically do. Right. Jack Dorsey Uh, 614 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 1: still CEO at the time, said, essentially mistakes were made, uh, 615 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,880 Speaker 1: and they reversed the they reversed the decision, but the 616 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 1: damage was done, right. That's why retractions are never printed 617 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,719 Speaker 1: on the front page. Yeah, and so we mentioned the 618 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: second installment, which was the or we kind of prefaced this. 619 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 1: That's the shadow banning, So details about shadow banning come out. 620 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 1: Shadow banning basically is like, imagine you've got a chorus 621 00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:59,560 Speaker 1: of people singing and they each have a microphone, right, 622 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,240 Speaker 1: and you cut one person's mike, so they still feel 623 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 1: like they're singing. They're hearing other people sing and they 624 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,319 Speaker 1: think they're singing along, but they don't know their mike 625 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: has been cut. This happened to um. Remember the Band, 626 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 1: the documentary about the band? I think, uh, Robbie Robertson 627 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,080 Speaker 1: the kind of the the guy who like which one 628 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: for the drummer talking about the last Waltz or last 629 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 1: last Waltz. Yeah, uh so his his mike is cut 630 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 1: in a lot of those songs, and it looks like 631 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: he's singing, but but you yeah, if you pay attention, 632 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: you're not hearing them. Well, that's so interesting because I 633 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: actually watched that recently. I think it's one of the 634 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: great concert documentaries. And one thing that's noteworthy about it 635 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:50,239 Speaker 1: is those guys they all sing together. Typically. Um, I 636 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,640 Speaker 1: did not know about this but they have really great 637 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: Mike um technique. They are all backed away from the 638 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: mics and singing quite loud, so one could argue it 639 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,440 Speaker 1: created becomes this like singular voice as opposed to an 640 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,399 Speaker 1: individual voice popping out here and there anyway, So yeah, 641 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm just being being a nerd about that film. 642 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: I'm quite a fan, So yeah, I'm mentioning. I'm mentioning 643 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: the band because I I love them and I think 644 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:22,319 Speaker 1: that's a good example of shadow banning. So you still 645 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: haven't said which band you're talking about the one I'm 646 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: just I'm sorry. Lavon helm Is uh is the guy 647 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:35,320 Speaker 1: who I think got really short changed in the nominal 648 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: drums and sing sing h Yeah, and he does it 649 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: with a plumb. So the third installment of the Twitter Files, 650 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: again we're on three of eight centers entirely on banning 651 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 1: the president of the United States or the politician and 652 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 1: then the president, Right, Donald Trump? Should we ban this guy? Uh? Is? 653 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 1: Is he a does he qualify as a private user? 654 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: Has he violated Twitter's terms of service? Right? Being a 655 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 1: private entity, Twitter has the ability to codify their own laws. Right, 656 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,839 Speaker 1: those are the terms you agree to when you use 657 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:19,399 Speaker 1: the private service and they ultimately do decide to ban them. 658 00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,200 Speaker 1: And then there's the fourth installment. These all kind of 659 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,840 Speaker 1: build on each other, right, UM it talks about the 660 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:31,720 Speaker 1: attack on the United States January six and you get 661 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: this you see inside or under the hood of Twitter, 662 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,839 Speaker 1: where you see the employees reacting to what's happening at 663 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,359 Speaker 1: the Capitol. The fifth installment then went back to the 664 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:47,320 Speaker 1: Trump ban and all of the machinations behind that explored 665 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 1: how Twitter employees decided to ban the former president. Um. 666 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,359 Speaker 1: Then the sixth installments described how the FBI got in 667 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,920 Speaker 1: touch with Twitter to suggest that some action be taken 668 00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:06,239 Speaker 1: against several accounts for what they saw as the spreading 669 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:10,200 Speaker 1: of election disinformation. Which is kind of a weird thing 670 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 1: in the time when you can say whatever you want, 671 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,440 Speaker 1: and you know, even if it's wrong or purposefully wrong, 672 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:24,800 Speaker 1: are you allowed to have the FBI investigate you? H 673 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,360 Speaker 1: Like a lot I know, right, Like a lot of 674 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:33,200 Speaker 1: people don't know the extent to which intelligence agencies have 675 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:38,879 Speaker 1: influenced editorial boards of so called independent journalist outfits. Right. 676 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:44,879 Speaker 1: New York Times UH historically has has played ball with 677 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:50,120 Speaker 1: state intelligence services. What was that operations? What was it called? 678 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:56,560 Speaker 1: Band is where intelligence agencies put specialists inside media companies. 679 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 1: Mockingbird Operation mocking Bird Yeah, uh yeah, real thing, real conspiracy, 680 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: uh the and it's spooky, right, it's scary. So the 681 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,400 Speaker 1: seventh installment goes back to the Hunter Biden story and 682 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:14,480 Speaker 1: it shows how Twitter works with the U. S intelligence 683 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 1: community to game plan how to handle the info. And 684 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,240 Speaker 1: then the eighth installment, right, the last one shows Twitter 685 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: one percent agreeing to shill propaganda for Uncle Sam by 686 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,920 Speaker 1: white listing accounts from Sentcom United States Central Command for 687 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:40,320 Speaker 1: the purposes of propaganda in other countries. So maybe white 688 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: listing maybe we define that real quick? Is that just? 689 00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: What is it? It's like an inclusion list essentially, as 690 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,880 Speaker 1: opposed to you know, it's always when you allow certain 691 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:56,000 Speaker 1: things to come through, right, like an improved list um 692 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,320 Speaker 1: of with permissions. Wise, I reckon, like you can you 693 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,040 Speaker 1: can do that with applications on your computer, you can 694 00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: exclude certain things or white list certain things. You can 695 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,919 Speaker 1: do that with websites as well. Does that mean increasing 696 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 1: reach somehow within the Twitter like cars of Twitter? That's 697 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,200 Speaker 1: a good question. I just know white listing in general 698 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 1: means something gets through and things that are blacklisted the 699 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: opposite there they don't get through, so maybe they got 700 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:28,919 Speaker 1: some special love, right yeah, but ultimately we're talking about propaganda, right, 701 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,640 Speaker 1: like that's some Voice of America stuff. Oh yeah, oh yeah. 702 00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,279 Speaker 1: And maybe hey, maybe if this show doesn't work out, 703 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: we can all, uh the three of us can just 704 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 1: go work for a Voice of America. Hush your mouth 705 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:51,920 Speaker 1: that says no and talk about so. Uh we are 706 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: going to pause for work from our sponsors as we 707 00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 1: fill out our Voice of America applications. Uh Mats, Matt, Okay, 708 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 1: Well we'll see how you feel at the end of 709 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:14,440 Speaker 1: the at the end of this break and we're back. 710 00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:17,720 Speaker 1: All right, Matt, are you uh are you on board 711 00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:22,160 Speaker 1: with Noel? Lolany I'll do it. I'll do it too. 712 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:24,879 Speaker 1: I just have to have some kind of name that's 713 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,920 Speaker 1: like really sticking it to him, Like, uh, my name 714 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:36,560 Speaker 1: will be hog Dahmer scold beautiful love it. So before 715 00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 1: we get before we get Shadow band with prejudice for 716 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,719 Speaker 1: for a beautiful bit of word play. Man. Uh. We 717 00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,920 Speaker 1: have to admit this was huge. Those Twitter files released 718 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,399 Speaker 1: were huge. They were very niche in some ways, right, 719 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,000 Speaker 1: they were talking to an audience that had already been 720 00:46:56,040 --> 00:47:01,000 Speaker 1: converted to a certain degree of tribalism, and they were 721 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:06,759 Speaker 1: easy for some people to ignore, right, but this inspired 722 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,839 Speaker 1: a lot of people. The folks who were targeted with 723 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:14,400 Speaker 1: these releases were very highly motivated by them. Some politicians 724 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:19,080 Speaker 1: vowed to hold congressional investigations, but people still don't agree 725 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:24,760 Speaker 1: about how huge or meaningful these files actually were. Musk 726 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,200 Speaker 1: saw this as a smoking gun, a confirmation of a 727 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:35,320 Speaker 1: long running right wing conspiracy theory. And you may remember this, folks, Um, 728 00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:40,279 Speaker 1: there's this idea is very popular in past years, this 729 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:44,480 Speaker 1: idea that social media is somehow inherently very left wing 730 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:49,439 Speaker 1: and that if you are a right wing politician, you 731 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:55,719 Speaker 1: are going to be unfairly censored because these commies in 732 00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:04,200 Speaker 1: charge of social media hate what you stand for. Maybe, uh, 733 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,880 Speaker 1: that's the theory is they were Also we've seen, you know, 734 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: with that that does seem to be there seems to 735 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,400 Speaker 1: be a little bit of sand behind that when it 736 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,600 Speaker 1: comes to the way Twitter addressed certain issues, especially when 737 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,560 Speaker 1: it came to left leaning politicians. But we also know 738 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,359 Speaker 1: that social media at large has gone the other way 739 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,759 Speaker 1: in a big way as well, in terms of you know, 740 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,840 Speaker 1: infiltration of potentially you know, allegedly infiltration of Russian influence 741 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,080 Speaker 1: and UH and disinformation. Uh that is more right leaning. 742 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,840 Speaker 1: So is it inherent in the platform? Maybe some of 743 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:45,319 Speaker 1: these decisions highlight instances where it was, but overall, I 744 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,680 Speaker 1: would say no, not inherent to social media at large. 745 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:53,440 Speaker 1: Like it's some cabal you know of of left leaning 746 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,839 Speaker 1: individuals that are trying to just wreck things for the right. 747 00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:01,000 Speaker 1: I just I don't buy that. Yeah, I mean, it's 748 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,560 Speaker 1: like a lot of claims. It feels a little reductive, 749 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,719 Speaker 1: and the idea of a persecution complex is a very 750 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:13,320 Speaker 1: powerful tool, especially if you want to push authoritarian beliefs. 751 00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,880 Speaker 1: You know, Benito Mussolini was able to accrue a great 752 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:23,000 Speaker 1: deal of power and influence by weaponizing persecution complexes. It's 753 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:25,960 Speaker 1: it's quite common in fascism. And just remember that four 754 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:30,280 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty million active users on Twitter alone, uh, 755 00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,160 Speaker 1: comparing it to the third largest country in the world. 756 00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,000 Speaker 1: With a number like that, there has to be some nuance, 757 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,080 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, it's it doesn't make 758 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,680 Speaker 1: sense that it would be all one way or the other. 759 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,480 Speaker 1: You know, we're just seeing a couple of instances in 760 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,239 Speaker 1: a grand scheme of things. Imagine all the stuff we 761 00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,120 Speaker 1: don't know. Again, this isn't like everything. This is just 762 00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,720 Speaker 1: the Twitter files, just some documents that were released about 763 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,840 Speaker 1: a specific instance. It's very true, but they're in there. 764 00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,600 Speaker 1: Just something that Matt Tybee points out in reporting was 765 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,799 Speaker 1: the balance, right, and should there be a or a 766 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,520 Speaker 1: fifty fifty balance if you've only got two political parties 767 00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:15,200 Speaker 1: in any country for a thing like theoretically there should 768 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:18,680 Speaker 1: be right, everybody gets treated equally, all the opinions get 769 00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,880 Speaker 1: treated equally, all the stuff being said, But just the 770 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:26,920 Speaker 1: point that the individual staff members. If you're looking at 771 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:32,719 Speaker 1: a pie chart, are you know above well above like 772 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,560 Speaker 1: democrat leaning or I guess what, you know what whatever, 773 00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:39,080 Speaker 1: you would be considered democrat leaning. And that fact mixed 774 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,680 Speaker 1: with the way some of these tools are used in 775 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,760 Speaker 1: the communication lines that are open right, because you would 776 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,680 Speaker 1: a lot of times just reach out to someone on 777 00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 1: Twitter and say, hey, we've got some stuff to review. 778 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,160 Speaker 1: Here's a list of list of tweets and status is 779 00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:00,000 Speaker 1: we need you to review, and then Twitter would respe 780 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:05,080 Speaker 1: on back, okay, handled those right? Yeah, And and then 781 00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,280 Speaker 1: also the people at the top are are humans, which 782 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,360 Speaker 1: means they may feel an emotional or moral imperative to 783 00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,080 Speaker 1: do certain things right, and ultimately it's up to them. 784 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:20,520 Speaker 1: There's no law against them doing this on a private platform. 785 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,960 Speaker 1: That's that's the issue. Also with the idea of the 786 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,680 Speaker 1: persecution theory, there are you know, there is some sand 787 00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 1: to it. As we said, if you look at some 788 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,799 Speaker 1: modern studies, like recent statistics, what you see is that 789 00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 1: misinformation and propaganda on social media overall, it spreads much 790 00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 1: more successfully if it's on the if it's right right wing, 791 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,720 Speaker 1: right the and to a certain extent, the more extreme 792 00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,520 Speaker 1: the better. There's a goldilocks zone of it. Not to 793 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:56,320 Speaker 1: say there isn't left wing misinformation, it just doesn't spread 794 00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: as well. So so the persecution thing, and it's it's 795 00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,080 Speaker 1: a powerful narrative, but be be careful with an exercise 796 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:08,000 Speaker 1: skepticism when you hear it, because sometimes people are trying 797 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:11,160 Speaker 1: to portray themselves as a victim as a way of 798 00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,480 Speaker 1: tricking you into agreeing with them, even if it is 799 00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:19,719 Speaker 1: against your better interest just objectively. Uh. But the big 800 00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:25,800 Speaker 1: point is two people who bought into this again with validity. 801 00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:30,560 Speaker 1: This confirmed that people were being silenced for not following 802 00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,640 Speaker 1: the official line. And folks are saying, hey, that's the 803 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,560 Speaker 1: opposite of what Twitter is supposed to be about, and 804 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,959 Speaker 1: there was an equal and opposite reaction because of course 805 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,520 Speaker 1: it's Twitter. So there were a lot of journalists in 806 00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:46,760 Speaker 1: the tech space and even former Twitter employees who are saying, ah, 807 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,839 Speaker 1: Elon Musk is over hyping this. We already know that 808 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,080 Speaker 1: it's messy. To your point, Matt, to try to to 809 00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,640 Speaker 1: your point and old to try to get everybody to agree, like, 810 00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:03,520 Speaker 1: we know they're tough decisions. We're kind of pioneers. We're 811 00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,120 Speaker 1: the ones writing the rule book. We're building. As the 812 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,560 Speaker 1: corporate types like to say, we're building the airplane while 813 00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:14,839 Speaker 1: we're flying, right, So it's we're not yeah right, it's 814 00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:19,319 Speaker 1: terrible way to build an airplane. So they're saying like 815 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:24,080 Speaker 1: these are innocent mistakes rather than some grand conspiracy. And 816 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:28,160 Speaker 1: that's our question. Has Elon Musk exposed a conspiracy? Did 817 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,960 Speaker 1: he over hype things? Was he on the money? I 818 00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,919 Speaker 1: mean maybe a little bit of both? Do you think so? Yeah? 819 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:36,480 Speaker 1: I do. I I do think it's a little bit 820 00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:40,080 Speaker 1: of both. Because again, Elon Musk, I guess he's more 821 00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,960 Speaker 1: of a libertarian than a hard right leaning individual. But 822 00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 1: even that's debatable. Uh, he does seem to be a 823 00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,839 Speaker 1: free speech first, no matter what the implications. Again, though 824 00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,440 Speaker 1: this is not an episode entirely about Elon Musk, we've 825 00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:58,439 Speaker 1: also seen him uh contradict that ideology when it comes 826 00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:03,840 Speaker 1: to him himself and uh and and people doing things 827 00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,439 Speaker 1: that make him look bad. You know, he will then 828 00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,719 Speaker 1: h take action to prevent that from happening, like with 829 00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,640 Speaker 1: the Elon plane tracker and all of that stuff, and 830 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,319 Speaker 1: and things that are that are vexing to him but 831 00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,680 Speaker 1: are technically, you know, public information that is just being 832 00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,560 Speaker 1: put out there under the tenets of free speech. So 833 00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:25,000 Speaker 1: it's hard to take a guy like that seriously when 834 00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:28,840 Speaker 1: he's constantly do as I say, not as I do. Um, 835 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,279 Speaker 1: that's my biggest beef with with Elon. I can't tell 836 00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,080 Speaker 1: you guys. I did something very uncharacteristic and I ended 837 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:40,600 Speaker 1: up watching roughly a quarter of the Super Bowl last night, 838 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,800 Speaker 1: just some sort of sports game. It is a sports 839 00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:50,160 Speaker 1: ball game. Um, the the Birds lost, but the case's one. 840 00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,880 Speaker 1: So the red and white team won and the greenish 841 00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:58,640 Speaker 1: black team lost because their cleats apparently were not sufficient 842 00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,279 Speaker 1: for the type of crown. That's that's what I kept. 843 00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:09,000 Speaker 1: That's what And someone has the ball. That's the cleats again, 844 00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:16,520 Speaker 1: change those out. So during the broadcast, it was somewhere 845 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:18,799 Speaker 1: in the third quarter when I turned it on just 846 00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:20,319 Speaker 1: to see if I could even get it on my 847 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,879 Speaker 1: system here and the first one of the first things 848 00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:28,200 Speaker 1: I saw on the screen guys, and they cut up to, uh, well, 849 00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:32,200 Speaker 1: I saw our our friend brad Cooper, Bradley Cooper up 850 00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:37,080 Speaker 1: there with a mirror. He was hanging out with a mirror, 851 00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:40,799 Speaker 1: Quest Love, Quest Love and the And there was a 852 00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:45,520 Speaker 1: shot of Rupert Murdoch sitting down just housing some food 853 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:49,200 Speaker 1: from the stadium, sitting next to Elon Musk, and they 854 00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,200 Speaker 1: were commenting about, oh, look at the look at the 855 00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:57,760 Speaker 1: power of those two seats. Wow. A well, Rupert signs 856 00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:02,760 Speaker 1: our check. So anyway, also there Ellen likes to uh 857 00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,880 Speaker 1: kind of cast himself as a different type of gazillionaire 858 00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:11,359 Speaker 1: than Rupert Murdoch. Uh. And you know, while sitting next 859 00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,040 Speaker 1: to each other in a sports ball game doesn't necessarily 860 00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:17,440 Speaker 1: mean that you share all of the same you know, ideas. 861 00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,840 Speaker 1: It's not a great look either, you know. Yeah, yeah, 862 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:26,000 Speaker 1: And also it's we have to assume that that is 863 00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:31,240 Speaker 1: packaged publicity too, right, So this is where it gets 864 00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:35,560 Speaker 1: very very tricky, you know. Uh, we have to realize 865 00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,800 Speaker 1: that the controversy here ultimately if we're talking about Twitter 866 00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,800 Speaker 1: and not the not necessarily the Biden stuff, which we 867 00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:45,200 Speaker 1: will do in a future episode. If we're talking about 868 00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:48,359 Speaker 1: just Twitter, then we have to realize this is a 869 00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:54,919 Speaker 1: privately owned, for profit entity that simultaneously gets treated as 870 00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:59,160 Speaker 1: though it is a public town square. It's a hybrid, 871 00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,680 Speaker 1: and a lot of times you will hear people treat 872 00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:07,000 Speaker 1: it as public or private according to the convenience of 873 00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:11,080 Speaker 1: whatever helps them the most in what they're saying. So 874 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,640 Speaker 1: it's like it changes on how I feel it will 875 00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,240 Speaker 1: work for me. Is what public figures are saying. They 876 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,919 Speaker 1: have a problem. It's a public space, free speech, they 877 00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,600 Speaker 1: want something shut down, it's a private space. And that 878 00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,120 Speaker 1: applies to Musk himself. He's always used on the town 879 00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,680 Speaker 1: square argument, and that's why he claims that he bought 880 00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,240 Speaker 1: the thing because it's so important and it needs to 881 00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,040 Speaker 1: be you know, handled by someone that understands it, you know, 882 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:39,480 Speaker 1: because it was being you know, poorly managed, which the 883 00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,920 Speaker 1: proof is definitely in the pudding. As soon as you know, 884 00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,920 Speaker 1: Musk came on, it really created problems and it seems 885 00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,480 Speaker 1: so transparent that all of the moves he's making are 886 00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:52,560 Speaker 1: to protect his ludicrous investment, uh in a platform that 887 00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,040 Speaker 1: had no way to make anywhere near that kind of money, 888 00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,640 Speaker 1: and by you know, adding the for pay blue checkmark. 889 00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:02,040 Speaker 1: And now they're even doing things that were like a 890 00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:05,160 Speaker 1: joke a year ago, like oh, I bet you I'll 891 00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,439 Speaker 1: that it'll be like New York Times, where once I've 892 00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,880 Speaker 1: read a certain number of articles, it's gonna like, you know, 893 00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,760 Speaker 1: limit me. And they're talking about literally doing that on Twitter, 894 00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,360 Speaker 1: where like unless you a premium account, you can only 895 00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:19,080 Speaker 1: read x number of tweets per day or t tweet 896 00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:21,480 Speaker 1: x number of times per day. Maybe I'm getting those 897 00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,320 Speaker 1: mixed up, but it's something along those lines. All of 898 00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:28,120 Speaker 1: this stuff so clearly is not too better and further 899 00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:31,240 Speaker 1: the town square model, but it's to make sure that 900 00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:36,120 Speaker 1: Ellen makes his money back. Uh yeah, yeah, because again 901 00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:39,880 Speaker 1: for profit entity, even though it has become a sort 902 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,760 Speaker 1: of public square and very important one, whether you love 903 00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:46,920 Speaker 1: it or hate it. And if you look at the 904 00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:50,480 Speaker 1: heart of the argument about the Twitter files social media 905 00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,800 Speaker 1: in general, you see that is the issue that is 906 00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:58,400 Speaker 1: the great dilemma. Intelligence companies are super deep in bed 907 00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,160 Speaker 1: with social media, look at look at c I a 908 00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:04,240 Speaker 1: stuff like in Q tell and ask yourself some hard 909 00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:10,080 Speaker 1: questions about transparency. But still, social media is a private enterprise. 910 00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,960 Speaker 1: That means ultimately the folks who own the door or 911 00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:17,560 Speaker 1: keep the gates decide what goes through. And that's why 912 00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:22,400 Speaker 1: those algorithms are proprietary black boxes. As we're recording now, 913 00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:27,920 Speaker 1: millions of people are trying to figure out our cane algorithms, 914 00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:31,680 Speaker 1: not just in social media, but also in things like 915 00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,320 Speaker 1: Apple or Spotify. How do we know what gets to 916 00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,760 Speaker 1: the top? How do we make our stuff get to 917 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:44,080 Speaker 1: the top? And those companies, including Twitter or under absolutely 918 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:48,600 Speaker 1: no legal compulsion to show their work or indeed explain themselves. 919 00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:53,760 Speaker 1: That's why countless tragedies occur across the planet every single day, 920 00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:56,120 Speaker 1: and all you might see in your feed is a 921 00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:59,360 Speaker 1: bunch of Yahoo's arguing about the color of address. Remember 922 00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:04,240 Speaker 1: that one? Remember what was? It was like? I never 923 01:00:04,280 --> 01:00:07,280 Speaker 1: saw the blue, I only saw the beige or the 924 01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,760 Speaker 1: gold whatever. Talking about arguing you guys, I just had 925 01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,960 Speaker 1: to say before we end this episode. So through through 926 01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,960 Speaker 1: this I ended up looking at a lot more of 927 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,360 Speaker 1: the Hunter Biden laptop stuff than I even expected. And 928 01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:24,880 Speaker 1: I found another New York Post article where it's a 929 01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,600 Speaker 1: short video from December twenty nineteen. Is that true? Yeah, 930 01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,160 Speaker 1: December twenty nineteen of Joe Biden talking at a town 931 01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:37,080 Speaker 1: hall in Iowa, and somebody, just somebody in the audience 932 01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,560 Speaker 1: just asks Joe Biden just right to his face, like 933 01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,720 Speaker 1: standing pretty close to him, about the laptop and his 934 01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,760 Speaker 1: son and selling access you know in Ukraine and in 935 01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:52,880 Speaker 1: Europe and y'all. Joe Biden's reaction to this guy who's 936 01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:56,000 Speaker 1: just asking a question. He wasn't the guy wasn't like 937 01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,040 Speaker 1: being mean about it, you know what I mean, or 938 01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:01,560 Speaker 1: like super accused, or he asked him a question about it. 939 01:01:02,120 --> 01:01:05,520 Speaker 1: Joe Biden's really like like, oh, you're a liar man. 940 01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,040 Speaker 1: Do you want to do push ups? Come on, I'll 941 01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:12,360 Speaker 1: do more push ups and you let's go overweight. Yes. 942 01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,000 Speaker 1: He he challenges the dude to do push ups. He 943 01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:20,320 Speaker 1: calls him overweight. He's like basically goes in on this guy, like, um, 944 01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,240 Speaker 1: somebody who's you know. He he didn't actually want to 945 01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,720 Speaker 1: talk about the thing. He just was like, bro, let's fight. 946 01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,520 Speaker 1: It was one of the strangest things. It was one 947 01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,720 Speaker 1: of the strangest things. Yeah, I don't know how to. 948 01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:37,080 Speaker 1: I feel like if you ask somebody a question and 949 01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:41,000 Speaker 1: they respond with a push up challenge, unless your question 950 01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,920 Speaker 1: is about push ups, it's yeah, it's kind of an 951 01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:50,320 Speaker 1: attempt at matrix dodge. That's nuts. That's nuts. So okay, 952 01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:53,760 Speaker 1: But we have to ask did Elon Musk do the 953 01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:57,480 Speaker 1: right thing by releasing the Twitter files? I would say yes, 954 01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:02,920 Speaker 1: I would say it jibes vibes with the idea of transparency. 955 01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:09,120 Speaker 1: But what we have to also remember is the Twitter 956 01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:13,160 Speaker 1: files didn't go directly to you the public. The Twitter 957 01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:19,680 Speaker 1: files went to reporters, and those reporters pick and choose 958 01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:23,880 Speaker 1: what they release, so it goes through several filters. We 959 01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:28,280 Speaker 1: have no idea what was left out. That's true. I mean, Paul, 960 01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:33,000 Speaker 1: we can leave that pause there because because what what 961 01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:35,560 Speaker 1: was the stuff that they didn't want you to know? 962 01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:38,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know. This is this conversation has 963 01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,160 Speaker 1: gone a lot of places, and you we got we 964 01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,040 Speaker 1: went a little long, but I feel like we we 965 01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,600 Speaker 1: brought up a lot of questions that are very difficult 966 01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:50,000 Speaker 1: to answer. I mean, what do you guys think, should 967 01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:54,600 Speaker 1: no old match? Should we just try to get Paul 968 01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:59,320 Speaker 1: to buy Twitter. Yeah, we get do some fundraising. Who 969 01:02:59,320 --> 01:03:04,240 Speaker 1: can help with that? Yeah, I trust you in charge, Paul. 970 01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,080 Speaker 1: Let's do that, I think Yeah, I think Paul is 971 01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,320 Speaker 1: the right guy for the job. But we want to 972 01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:14,000 Speaker 1: hear what you think, folks about the Twitter files, about 973 01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,480 Speaker 1: the nature of a public versus a private platform. Was 974 01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:21,400 Speaker 1: La Musk right to release this? Was this overhyped? Was 975 01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,800 Speaker 1: this the smoking gun of the conspiracy that a lot 976 01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:30,280 Speaker 1: of media ignores? Send us your thoughts. Oh gosh, you 977 01:03:30,320 --> 01:03:34,640 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter and all sorts of internet places. Yeah, 978 01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:38,920 Speaker 1: hit us up on Twitter. We are at conspiracy stuff. 979 01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:43,320 Speaker 1: Ben has one too, He's got one. You can find 980 01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:51,920 Speaker 1: him directly. You can also find us. Yeah, like you 981 01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,360 Speaker 1: guys should see how whimsical Matt is about this. You 982 01:03:55,400 --> 01:04:00,640 Speaker 1: can also find us on Instagram, TikTok YouTube, here's where 983 01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:03,480 Speaker 1: it gets crazy on Facebook. And if none of that 984 01:04:03,560 --> 01:04:06,200 Speaker 1: quite bags your badgers, fear not. You can also give 985 01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:10,120 Speaker 1: us a telephone call. That's all right. One s T 986 01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,280 Speaker 1: D W y T K is the number to call. 987 01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:16,240 Speaker 1: Leave a message at the sound of Ben's dulcet towns. 988 01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:19,000 Speaker 1: Three minutes is the time you shall have to deliver 989 01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:21,600 Speaker 1: your missive if you need more time than that, there's 990 01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:23,160 Speaker 1: another way to get in touch with us. It's the 991 01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:27,000 Speaker 1: good old fashioned way with an email. We are conspiracy 992 01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:48,640 Speaker 1: at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you 993 01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:51,320 Speaker 1: to know. Is a production of I heart Radio. For 994 01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,400 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart radio app, 995 01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,320 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.