1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: Our experience was whenever Dad came home, his entire attention 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: was devoted toward fulfilling us as his children. So it 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: was like, I gotta play with them. And this is 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: looking back thinking about it, because I'm gone all the 5 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: time and I don't have a large quantity of time, 6 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: but the quality of time I want to use to 7 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: fulfill my kids. So we wanted to play and he 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: was asleep, so somebody, it wasn't me, but somebody with 9 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: a smart idea, let's pour water in Dad's ear. And 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: then that was not a good experience. 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 2: This is my legacy. On this mlkday, we're reflecting not 12 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 2: just on doctor King as a leader, but the life 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 2: he lived in moments both ordinary and extraordinary. Hosted by 14 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 2: his son, Martin Luther King the Third with Andrea Waters King, 15 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger, this episode explores the man 16 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: behind the movement, the values he lived by, and why 17 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 2: his legas see still calls each of us forward with hope. 18 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 3: Let's jump in. 19 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: Sixty two years ago my father delivered Yeah, I have 20 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: a dream speech, and every year I ask myself, if 21 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: we're closer toward achieving his dream, are we getting further away. 22 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: What is the one thing, and this is actually to 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: both of you that would have the greatest impact on 24 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,839 Speaker 1: making my dad's dream a reality. 25 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 4: Your father's phrased the beloved community and what it means 26 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 4: to have love for one another and how that love 27 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 4: is translated into policy. And we can translate love into 28 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 4: fair housing policy and thinking about community building, but we 29 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 4: can also translate it into issues like war and peace, 30 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 4: whether or not we are sending bombs to destroy communities 31 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 4: that aren't part of our country but are part of 32 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:07,120 Speaker 4: a larger beloved community. When it comes to discrimination, doctor 33 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 4: Perry said, there's nothing wrong with black people that ending 34 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,239 Speaker 4: racism wouldn't fix. Part of what it means to love 35 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 4: one another is to not be racist. It sounds so simple, 36 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 4: but to not discriminate against people because of the color 37 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 4: of their skin, to not treat them worse, to not 38 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 4: deny them resources, to not praise their home at a 39 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 4: lower level because of the color of their skin. It 40 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 4: sounds so simple and maybe even pedantic. 41 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 5: But if we were to love one. 42 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 4: Another in that way, that we stopped being racist and 43 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 4: stop making black people pay for racism, we would be 44 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 4: a lot closer to Doctor King's dream. And then you 45 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 4: would see the impact when it comes to how we 46 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 4: treat our Latino brothers and sisters, when it comes to immigration, 47 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 4: and so many problems that we have in our country 48 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:16,399 Speaker 4: and in our world would be solved if we took 49 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 4: your father's advice and created a beloved community that included everybody, 50 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 4: and we treated all of our neighbors with love and 51 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 4: care and valued their lives. 52 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 6: Wow, you know, that's that's big. I tend to focus 53 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 6: on housing largely because it's it's connected to so many 54 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 6: other social systems. When you live in an area where 55 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 6: home ownership is higher, you literally live longer, you have 56 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 6: higher levels of well being, less likely to be incarcerated, 57 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 6: more likely to own a business. We know what equity 58 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 6: equity can can do. Home Ownership is such a critical 59 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 6: piece of excelling as a community. And I think doctor 60 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 6: King would would have wanted and he did want housing 61 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 6: equity making sure that people had an opportunity to own 62 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 6: a home, not just from the wealth building aspect of it, 63 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 6: that it really does build community. 64 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 7: And then related to that, and I mentioned it, I 65 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 7: do believe that we can build enough wealth where people 66 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 7: can have well being that every the kind of well 67 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 7: being that everyone deserves. 68 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 6: Closing wealth gaps. We talk about closing the wealth gap 69 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 6: that will that's going to take some time and some 70 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:52,039 Speaker 6: generations to do to do that. In the meantime, we 71 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 6: can expect people to have a certain quality of life 72 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 6: that that where they're fulfilled, that they're enriched, where they 73 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 6: can pass on something to their children. So this work 74 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 6: that John and I are doing, it's around well being 75 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 6: because as a metric, we don't have to wait for 76 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 6: generations for people to have the kind of well being 77 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 6: they can get tomorrow. We can implement housing policy, we 78 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 6: can implement education policy. We can do some things today 79 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 6: that will provide the kind of well being that's will 80 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 6: sustained families and entire communities. 81 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 8: Overall. 82 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 9: I don't want to be unsaid by either my father 83 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 9: or I. There is no legacy at all in America, 84 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 9: let alone Black America that does not have your father 85 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 9: in law, your father as an inspiration. There's not one. 86 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 9: There's not a single moment I think any of us 87 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 9: can reference where we don't go back and say, well, 88 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 9: I can, I must, and I will because of what 89 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 9: he endured. I mean, Daddy, you went to Atlanta and 90 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 9: I remember you time me to go visiting the center, 91 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 9: which I've now been to obviously, but and you said, 92 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 9: brought tears to your eyes, or. 93 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 10: Walk us through. 94 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 9: They remember that into the number time a number going 95 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 9: to jail because I mean just that, I mean he 96 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 9: called me emotional about that. We were at a conference 97 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 9: call together because he wanted to share it because at 98 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,359 Speaker 9: once all his children and his wife of course, about 99 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 9: what that was like to just see do you have 100 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 9: any idea what this man had been through and you 101 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 9: had lived through the era and just seeing it up there. 102 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 10: Twenty nine times arrested and some say thirty, but twenty 103 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 10: nine times arrested, sitting in a jail cell, one time 104 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 10: being sentenced to four months of hard labor while I'm 105 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 10: playing soccer on a field, you know. And he and 106 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 10: he was the he's like the domino, you know. He 107 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 10: could think of mcgonney and then the dominoes start to fall, 108 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 10: and then you've got Martin Luther King and and Nelson 109 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 10: Mandela and everyone else until we get to the CRA 110 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 10: in nineteen sixty four and then from you know, we 111 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 10: had Title six and we have fair housing, all of 112 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 10: which Martin Luther King was instrumental in making sure it 113 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 10: got passed. And uh, you know, outlawing redlining, real realty redlining, 114 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 10: as well as our neighborhood providence, you know, providences so 115 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 10: that people could live in certain areas that can be 116 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 10: traced back to m OK and even Title nine and 117 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 10: the ADA and gay rights just discriminating against people based 118 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 10: on their sexual orientation all go back to that cra 119 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 10: although they you know, they were different laws that would 120 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 10: pass because of them, but it still starts with the 121 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 10: argument that you cannot discriminate against people, no matter who 122 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 10: they are. And I think he said in his letter 123 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 10: from Burmiam him that injustice for one is in justice 124 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 10: for all, and that again part of the Martin Luther 125 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 10: King legacy. And even as far as the fact that 126 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 10: University of Alabama can call themselves a football powerhouse, still 127 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 10: goes back to MLK because you wouldn't have those athletes 128 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 10: in that school if he hadn't fought for the right 129 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 10: for them to be there. So I agree with Laura 130 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 10: that mlk's legacy is one that you should always be 131 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 10: proud of, that we should always bring up and we 132 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 10: should always remember, and. 133 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 11: That's why we also are very passionate about having everyone 134 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 11: see themselves as part of the king legacy and to 135 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:47,679 Speaker 11: see what our role is in creating that beloved community. 136 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 11: That's one of the reasons that collectively the four of 137 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,719 Speaker 11: us have the realized the Dream initiative of which we 138 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 11: want to have one hundred million hours of service completed 139 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 11: across this country by Martin Luther King's junior's one hundredth birthday. 140 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 11: We believe now is our turn, each of us, our 141 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 11: turn in that long walk towards freedom. 142 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 3: Well, I've heard you speak many times. The part of 143 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 3: the reason why this work Realized the Dream is so 144 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 3: important is because America is one of the great inflection 145 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 3: moments since the days of doctor King. 146 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 11: I think people are surprised to find out that, first 147 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 11: of all, that your father actually had a sense of 148 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 11: humor and bought a sense of laughter and lightness to 149 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 11: the house. And then even you know amongst you know, 150 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 11: people on the road with them, and like they would 151 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 11: find ways. 152 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: To laugh, and you know, Dad is seen as extraordinarily serious. 153 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: But as a as a minister, I guess you're always 154 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: bringing humor to the two life experiences. So while the 155 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: public didn't necessarily see that all of his colleagues, including 156 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: you know, others who happen to be around, would see that, 157 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: and I guess it's I mean, some of the things 158 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: they joke about would make one think are you joking 159 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: about this? But if they didn't, I'm not sure how 160 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: they would have made it through it. 161 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 12: It's interesting because I think it was last year I 162 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 12: was asked to be in a documentary about your father 163 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 12: that focused on his relationship with basketball and about how 164 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 12: he used basketball to connect with people, and I thought 165 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 12: it was a great perspective and a great entry point 166 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 12: into talking about his legacy because you know, it's sort 167 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 12: of hard for people to imagine, you know, doctor Martin. 168 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,280 Speaker 10: Luther King Junior playing basketball. 169 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 12: And I think I made the joke during the interview, like, 170 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 12: I mean, was he out there hooping in church? Who's 171 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 12: like what. 172 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 10: Did his jumper look? 173 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 8: Like? 174 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 12: I need to know this, you know, but it is, 175 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 12: you know, just what you said is that you have 176 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 12: to have some levity even in the seriousness stuff. And 177 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 12: we see this from black people like all the time, 178 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 12: you know, you see it on social media. It would 179 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 12: be the most serious situation, and the jokes that our 180 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 12: community will have is a way of us trying to 181 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 12: balance out something that might be terrifying with also saying like, hey, 182 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 12: we can't stay in a constant state of being paralyzed 183 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 12: in fear, so let's just get these jokes off right 184 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 12: now and try to diffuse the situation. 185 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 13: A little bit. 186 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 11: And one thing I would like to add as well, 187 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 11: because just like you, Jamelle, I love all of our 188 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 11: conversations on this podcast. I think we're incredibly blessed to 189 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 11: have such phenomenal guests. One of the things that I 190 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 11: love the most about this conversation is the celebration and 191 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 11: the look into black love. I think that a few 192 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 11: years ago in Boston there was a monument that was 193 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 11: dedicated to Martin's parents that here you had on the 194 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 11: oldest public park, the Boston com and you had this 195 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 11: monument to black love, and that conversation was missed. And 196 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 11: so it's wonderful to have this conversation and to celebrate 197 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 11: you all and to celebrate black love. 198 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 8: Yeah. 199 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 12: I would even take it a step further and say 200 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 12: I think that part of the story of doctor Martin 201 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 12: Luther King Jr. The love that he shared with KURTA. 202 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 12: Scott King, is like a major component that I think 203 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 12: often gets overlooked, and having done extensive reading, I read 204 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 12: Cretit Scott King's the biography she wrote. I read it 205 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 12: a like, maybe like five or six years ago, and 206 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 12: it was very eye opening. And I think generally the 207 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 12: appreciation for the woman that she was gets often overlooked. 208 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 12: But yeah, their story is a love story. 209 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: We're building something real here, one episode at a time. 210 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:55,319 Speaker 1: If you want to be part of it, subscribed, it's free, 211 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 1: it matters, and we're just getting started. 212 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 11: Now back to my legacy. 213 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: It reminds me really of something my father went through 214 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: in relationship to just non violence, because he immersed himself 215 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: in it and never deviated from it. Not sure what 216 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: would have happened if he chose a different path. What 217 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: we know is what he chose transformed this nation in 218 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:35,560 Speaker 1: the world. And you know, Dad was personally attacked. Everyone 219 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: knows he was assassinated, but people don't remember he also 220 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: was stabbed in nineteen fifty eight in Harlem with his 221 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: first book, Stried Toward Freedom. Now I share this story 222 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: because it was what he said after he was stabbed 223 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: that I think is prevalent, and that is that he 224 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: had not recovered it was just to day, and if 225 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: if the stabbing had been just a few inches lower, 226 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: he would have died that day. Well, he was able 227 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: to be salvage and the next day he'd said, it's 228 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: the climate of the rhetoric that and by the way, 229 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: this happened to be a black woman who stabbed him. 230 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: She was going to shoot him, but she didn't have 231 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: a chance to get her gun. She pulled a letter 232 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: open out of her purse and stabbed him. And so 233 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: he talked about the climate and saying, we've got to 234 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: change the climate. It's relevant today. Yeah, we've got to 235 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: change the climate and the rhetoric. 236 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 13: Since we're talking about your father and nonviolence, I wondered 237 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 13: if you could share, since I never got to ask 238 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 13: you this anything about what you learned from him personally 239 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 13: about nonviolence? How do we teach nonviolence and live nonviolence? 240 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,640 Speaker 13: And it seems to me sometimes your dad had it 241 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 13: in his dna to be gentle. For me, it's kind 242 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 13: of a struggle. I'm thinking of that time you were 243 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 13: marching with your father and you held his hand. I 244 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 13: read in a book and you you felt the peace 245 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 13: that he knew. Can you tell me what you learned 246 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 13: from your dad about nonviolence. 247 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: Well, I think first of all, what was learned was 248 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: this has to be a way of life, a commitment. 249 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: You can't practice it one day. Except for that one 250 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: time where he became angry with us because we poured 251 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: water in his ear, I mean kids' children, and so 252 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: he was That's the only time I really ever saw 253 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: him angry. He didn't get he didn't quite whip us, 254 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: but he was on the. 255 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 14: Way what you have to do. 256 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 3: I never heard that. 257 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 13: You have to tell us that because you're saying you 258 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 13: never saw him. 259 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: No otherwise, I never remember seeing him angry. I always 260 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: saw him. He was always very measured and disciplined. And 261 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: I think that's what in a relationship to nonviolence. It 262 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: has to be a discipline because we human beings, We're 263 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: going to be upset, we're going to be angry. And 264 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: as I said, now he was asleep and he was exhausted, 265 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: and because our experience, you were fine. Well, yeah, I 266 00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: guess that the way. We didn't see it that way 267 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: at the time, but our experience was whenever Dad came home, 268 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: his entire attention was devoted toward fulfilling us as his children. 269 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: So it was like I gotta play with them. And 270 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: this is looking back thinking about it, because I'm gone 271 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: all the time and I don't have a large quantity 272 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: of time, but the quality of time I want to 273 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: use to fulfill my kids. So we wanted to play 274 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: and he was asleep, so somebody, it wasn't me, but 275 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 1: somebody with a smart idea, let's pour water in dad's ear. 276 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 1: And then that was not a good experience. It was. 277 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: It was frightening because of course we did that and 278 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: ran and he ran after us. That he didn't whip, 279 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: he didn't catch us that day. I qualified that day. 280 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 13: But the rest of the time he was no he was. 281 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,960 Speaker 1: He was always measured and always the same kind of 282 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 1: love that he provided for us as a father, although 283 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 1: it was a father son for the daughter relationship he 284 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: provided to every sense. 285 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 13: That's the one time in your eleven years you saw 286 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:27,360 Speaker 13: him get even like upset. He was gentle, non violentce 287 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 13: he was practicing what he preached right, And I think 288 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 13: that's what the movement needs today. We all have to 289 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 13: reach doctor King's level of non violence. 290 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: I think, yes, ideally, but I also think there's a 291 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: practical and real side of human beings. And it doesn't 292 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: mean we can't get there. We have to always aspire. 293 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: Just like you know we talk about a perfect union, 294 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: Well we're never going to be perfect, but we can 295 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: always aspire to that. 296 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 3: Martin. We've had this, Martin, We've had this conversation that 297 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 3: one time you were arrested and you went to jail 298 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 3: right next to people who were cold hard killers. And 299 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 3: John you know, I know that for half a year 300 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 3: you had to stay in prison after one of those arrests. 301 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 3: Like this is like for our listeners, don't think you're 302 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 3: just walking in and walking out, Like there's real consequences 303 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,440 Speaker 3: of how you have put your lives on the line 304 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 3: in extraordinary ways. 305 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 8: If what we believe is not costly, we're left to 306 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 8: question its value. That's the bottom line. I think. So 307 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 8: that if we if we really has one more tame, 308 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 8: if what we believe is not costly, we're left to 309 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 8: question its value. And I think that that is the 310 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 8: core of nonviolence, that it's going to cost you something 311 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 8: the other side of that coin. And and and Martin King, 312 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 8: I wanted to just mention a very very important, UH 313 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 8: story that I learned about your father in incarcerated is 314 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 8: how much he cared for the other prisoners. There's I 315 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 8: don't remember where he was. He had so many and 316 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 8: he was in there for so long sometimes, but his 317 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 8: main concern was how is so and so and so 318 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 8: and so had needon this day, and so and so 319 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:10,880 Speaker 8: didn't have their pills, and is so and so being 320 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 8: looked after. That makes the point I think of, you 321 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 8: cannot and you should not do this alone. You prepare 322 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 8: yourself alone in the sense that you have to go 323 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 8: inside yourself in order to go out and carry what's inside, 324 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 8: and that is your humanity, your compassion, your joy, your 325 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 8: realization of a problem that needs to be made public. 326 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 8: But if you go alone, don't expect to change the world. 327 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 8: But I think you have to do it, and not 328 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:41,479 Speaker 8: expect to change the world. All of the issues that 329 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 8: I have been involved in about you, John, but all 330 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 8: the issues I've been involved with, and all the times 331 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 8: that I've made a public statement in protests, not one 332 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 8: of them has improved, not a single one. And so 333 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 8: it's a lesson to me that I'm not responsible for 334 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 8: making that change. I'm just for possible, for showing up 335 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 8: and joining the community that continually shows up. 336 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 7: Put your doctor hat on, take out your prescription pad, 337 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 7: take out a pen, and what's the prescription of solving 338 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 7: this connection? 339 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 14: Well, since you asked a prescription, it turns out the 340 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,919 Speaker 14: final document that I issued when I was search in 341 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 14: general was actually called a parting Prescription to America. It 342 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 14: was about what you're getting at, which is there was 343 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 14: this deeper question that had been bothering me for years 344 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:33,879 Speaker 14: when I was in office, meeting people talking to them, 345 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 14: which was this The question is why are so many 346 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 14: of the people that I meet struggling with a sense 347 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 14: of unhappiness and emptiness? Why do so many of them 348 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 14: feel like something is missing in their lives? And I 349 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 14: realized that many of the narratives that were told that 350 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 14: it's due to economic challenges, security challenges, These are real. Actually, 351 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 14: these really contribute to the unhappiness and anxiety and pain 352 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 14: that people feel. But even one of those needs were met, 353 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 14: I was finding there was something else that was missing, 354 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 14: that people were still feeling that sense of unhappiness, they 355 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 14: were still suffering. And what I came to understand through 356 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 14: many conversations and research and data, et cetera, was that 357 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 14: there is a story that we have told ourselves, and 358 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 14: young people in particular, a narrative that society has created 359 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 14: about what constitutes success, and young people would often say 360 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 14: this to me most eloquently and clearly, because when I 361 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 14: would travel, I would always ask the same question, how 362 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 14: do you define success? And they would say, well, society 363 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 14: is defining for it. Is it for us as money, power, 364 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 14: and fame, And if we can achieve those three things, 365 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 14: then we will really have made it. People make documentaries 366 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 14: about us or our books about us, it'll be great. 367 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 14: It's why I met so many people who were saying that. 368 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 14: What I would say, what are you focus on right now? 369 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 14: They would say, I'm focused on building my brand right 370 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 14: And there was a small part of me which died 371 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 14: every time like somebody said that, because it's I think 372 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 14: it's emblematic of a broader problem. But when you look 373 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 14: at what really leads to fulfillment, it's actually remarkably consistent 374 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 14: in research in life experience and history and in scripture 375 00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 14: across faiths, which is that it's a different triad that 376 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 14: try to modern day success maybe wealth, power and fame, 377 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:26,360 Speaker 14: but the triad of lifelong fulfillment is actually relationships, purpose, 378 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 14: and service. It's the people we love, the people we help, 379 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 14: and it's how we find purpose in our lives and 380 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 14: lifting each other up and being a part of something 381 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 14: bigger than ourselves. That's actually how we find fulfillment the 382 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 14: core though, the key about the try to fulfillment is 383 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 14: it has to be rooted in a core virtue, and 384 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 14: that virtue is love. Love and all its manifestations of generosity, kindness, 385 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 14: but also hope and courage those come from love as well. 386 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 14: And in writing this parting prescription, I was deeply inspired 387 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 14: by Reverend Martin Luther King, by your father and father 388 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 14: in law and he his call for the beloved community 389 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 14: because I saw the beloved community, and Alison I we'd 390 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 14: spend a lot of time talking about this, because we 391 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 14: talk about this in the context of what when you 392 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 14: become a parent, you start realizing that your child is 393 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 14: going to need a lot more than you can provide 394 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 14: to live a fulfilling life. They're going to depend on 395 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,399 Speaker 14: the world around them, and the question for us is 396 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 14: what can we do to help make sure that that 397 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 14: world is going to be there for our kids and 398 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 14: for all kids, that it's going to be a nurturing 399 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 14: world where if they fall down, somebody is going to 400 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 14: be there to help them up. If they make a mistake, 401 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 14: somebody is not going to judge them in the worst 402 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,359 Speaker 14: possible bay way, but give them the benefit of the 403 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 14: doubt and where they will do the same for others. 404 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 14: And to me, that beloved community is about belonging. It's 405 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 14: about making love the ethic and the compass through which 406 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 14: we are guided in our lives. It's about building a 407 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 14: life rooted in relationships, purpose and service. We want to 408 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 14: also build out this narrative and conversation around how to 409 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,680 Speaker 14: live better life right because people want to live a 410 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 14: better Many people in their gut are saying, right now, 411 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 14: is it is this all? 412 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 3: Like? 413 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 14: Isn't there something more? There is something more right, and 414 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 14: we can find it together, but only if we talk 415 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 14: about it, only if we are open about it, Only 416 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 14: if we come together and start creating opportunities for ourselves 417 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 14: and for our children to engage in a life that's 418 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 14: rooted in relationships, in service, and in a sense of purpose. 419 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 14: And when you keep in mind the fact that right now, 420 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 14: more than half of eighteen to twenty four year olds 421 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 14: say they have little to no sense of meaning or 422 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 14: purpose in our in their lives, that tells us that 423 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 14: we've got some work to do to make the future 424 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 14: brighter for current and future generations. 425 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 3: Scrolling won't change your life, but subscribing just might tap 426 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 3: that button and stay connected to conversations that can't. Now 427 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 3: back to my legacy, you being a philosopher and an 428 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 3: incredibly practical leader. 429 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 6: So putting those two hats. 430 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 3: On a practical philosopher that I love that you can 431 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,239 Speaker 3: coin that in your opinion based on your experience, how 432 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 3: does one live and lead a fulfilled life? 433 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 15: So I think fulfillment comes from knowing that your life 434 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 15: and or your work are contributing to something bigger than yourself, 435 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 15: and that is relative to one zones, ambitions, and goals. 436 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,200 Speaker 15: You know, somebody who's devoted themselves to parenthood and sees 437 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 15: a child flourish and going to be something bigger than 438 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 15: themselves will find that feeling. But coming to work simply 439 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 15: to make money, it's exciting at the beginning, but it 440 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 15: doesn't contribute to a feeling of lifelong contribution. And this 441 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 15: is where vision matters. 442 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 13: You know. 443 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 12: Vision is. 444 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 15: An idealized version of the world we want to live in. 445 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 15: And when your dad said I had a dream, he 446 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,120 Speaker 15: was articulating a world that did not exist. Still doesn't exist. 447 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 15: It's an ideal state that we strive towards. We'll never 448 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 15: get there, but we'll die trying. And that's sort of 449 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 15: the point. And all of the markers, all of the progress, 450 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,919 Speaker 15: all of the waypoints, you know, three steps forwards, two 451 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 15: steps back, three steps forwards, are proof that we're getting 452 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 15: closer and closer and closer to this idealized state. And 453 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 15: that's what leads to a fulfilled life. That I'm making 454 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 15: progress to a world that is better than the one 455 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:24,680 Speaker 15: we live in now. 456 00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 3: And how do you find fulfillment in your own hurt? 457 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 15: So I have a vision of the world that doesn't exist. 458 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 15: I imagine a world in which the vast majority of 459 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:37,479 Speaker 15: people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever 460 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 15: they are, and end the day fulfilled by the work 461 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 15: that they do. And I strive to build that world 462 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 15: in my work. You'll see it in my writing, You'll 463 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 15: see it in my speaking, you'll see it in the 464 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,199 Speaker 15: products that we sell on our website. They're all contributing 465 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 15: to advancing towards that vision. But it's how I work 466 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,240 Speaker 15: very hard to show up as a person. That's how 467 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 15: I am as a friend. You know, if you ask 468 00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 15: my friends. What do you love about Simon? You know, 469 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,399 Speaker 15: invariably they'll set something to the effect of I can 470 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 15: sit in a room with him, I don't even have 471 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 15: to talk to him, and I feel inspired. You know 472 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 15: my standard. When I come off a stage, I don't 473 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 15: want to be It's very nice when people say that 474 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 15: was interesting. It's very nice when you say you are entertaining. 475 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 15: You know, that's all lovely and I appreciate those those compliments. 476 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 15: But the one that but that that fills me is 477 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 15: when you when people tell me that was inspiring, and 478 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 15: so it's work. You know, it's work to do those things. 479 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 15: But when I'm advancing that and it's imperfect, and I'm imperfect, 480 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 15: and it sometimes doesn't work, and sometimes I'm grumpy and 481 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 15: sometimes I forget, but when it works, it is deeply 482 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 15: satisfying on a very very deep, deep, deep level. 483 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 11: Thank you, Simon. I don't know if you realize this, 484 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 11: but I used to monitor the klu Klux Klan and 485 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 11: Neil not seasoned skin hit. 486 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:46,280 Speaker 10: I tell you that. 487 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 11: You know, one of the things that we we play 488 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 11: a lot when things get very heavy in our home 489 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 11: is Doctor King's speeches and sermons. And I love the way, 490 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 11: there's one in particular that that I that charges me. 491 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 11: And he talks about the fact of liking and loving. 492 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 11: He says that you know, you that he's glad, he's 493 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 11: happy that in the Bible it says that you don't 494 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,640 Speaker 11: have to like your enemies. And he went on to say, 495 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 11: because there's some people that you just won't like. And 496 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 11: he said, you know, I won't like the man that 497 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 11: bombed my home and almost you know, killed my child. 498 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 5: You know, I won't like them. 499 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 11: I can't like the man who you know, bombed the 500 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 11: church and killed you know, four children. But then he 501 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,479 Speaker 11: went on to talk about love and I and I 502 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 11: think that it always is a misconception when we talk 503 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 11: about love because people automatically think about the sentimentality of love. 504 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 11: It's an acknowledgment. And when we start from number one, 505 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,080 Speaker 11: separating if we're talking not from our friends and those 506 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 11: who we have love for, but society at large, it 507 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 11: starts with separating the evil act from the individual. And 508 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 11: I also think it for me, it gives me great 509 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 11: relief to know that I don't have to like everybody, 510 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 11: you know, and that's okay to not have to like everybody. 511 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 11: It is the acknowledgment of our shared humanity and coming 512 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 11: I think from that place, which I think is another 513 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,280 Speaker 11: way of what you're saying, that's. 514 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 15: So good and it's so right, which is, you know, 515 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 15: we're supposed to love our fellow human being, but we 516 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 15: don't have to like everybody. I think we conflate and 517 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 15: confuse these words and these feelings because we add the sentimentality. 518 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 12: You know. 519 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 15: Is an interesting comparison. Have you ever watched the TV 520 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 15: show First forty eight. It's kind of an insane show. 521 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 15: It's reality TV where it's basically following homicide detectives. And 522 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 15: homicide detectives are not like regular beat cops. You know, 523 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 15: cops are some of the most cynical people you'll ever 524 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 15: meet because they generally see people at their worst on 525 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 15: a day to day basis, you know, But homicide cops 526 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 15: are completely different breed, and they have the sense that everyone, 527 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 15: no one deserves to have their life taken and like 528 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 15: they'll investigate the deaths of drug dealers. No one's gonna miss. 529 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 15: They've been a blight on society, they've done damage. They 530 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 15: may have caused harm themselves, but damn it, it's not 531 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 15: for another person to decide when they live or die, 532 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 15: and they seek justice, and I just I'm always fascinated 533 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 15: how they seem to have love, but they definitely don't have. 534 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,760 Speaker 3: Like you've actually used your character as to almost full 535 00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 3: a mirror to society, to challenge to question, Like I 536 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 3: look at the description that you have the very deep 537 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 3: divide in America right now between America and America and 538 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 3: America we're. 539 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 5: Okay, but we need that. 540 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 3: Can you can you explain though a little bit, but. 541 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 5: The difference America. I love the promise of America. I 542 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 5: think America is the light on the hill. Merca, on 543 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 5: the other hand, has a lot of issues, you know, 544 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,719 Speaker 5: because where division comes is where hatred comes. Where we're separated, 545 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 5: is where we don't come together, where people get in bubbles, 546 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 5: it's where they divide and all those things. But America 547 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 5: is the thing that we should always be shooting for, 548 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 5: that perfection of an idea that unites people that isn't tribal, 549 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 5: you know, it's it is freedom of expression, you know, 550 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 5: all these things, freedom of speech, you know, the you know, 551 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 5: the ability to be a unique person in the world 552 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 5: and not be threatened by government has never happened before. 553 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,440 Speaker 5: You know, but America tends to threaten those things in 554 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 5: different ways, you know. And so I did a show 555 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 5: early this year where I made that distincsion through a 556 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 5: show where I did both political commentary and magic tricks, 557 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 5: which a lot of people didn't know that I did magic. 558 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 3: So we all have been friends for years, the four 559 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 3: of us here, but we recently wrote a book. We 560 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 3: talked a lot about the disconnection. We talked about the 561 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 3: solution being the blood community, but the disconnection, frankly, in 562 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 3: America ran around the world. So when you look at 563 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 3: that division, do you have hope or what gives you hope? 564 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 5: Well, I'm a hopeful person, but I'm a realist too. Look, 565 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 5: I was very influenced by you know, doctor King. I mean, 566 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 5: here's a man that understood that division. He relied on 567 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 5: America to get us out of the worst in saincts 568 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 5: of America, you know, I mean it's very people don't realize, 569 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 5: they don't appreciate today how revolutionary not a non violent 570 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 5: approach actually is. You know, because we allow oppress people 571 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 5: to fight back everywhere in the world. Why was it 572 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 5: not allowed here? What's the difference? 573 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: You know? 574 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 8: What? 575 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 5: You know, we expected everywhere in the world. Why did 576 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 5: we not expect it here? 577 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 13: You know. 578 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 5: So there was a bigger idea that he was working at, 579 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 5: and that idea was the promise of something that people 580 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 5: actually had an agreement upon. It just hadn't been cashed 581 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 5: in yet. As your dad said, the promisory note is 582 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 5: the way that he put it, you know, and that 583 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,200 Speaker 5: is inspirational and it's asked. It's different. It's a different 584 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 5: thing when you're doing that, and that's how you that's 585 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 5: how you bring people into something as opposed to you 586 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 5: get something. You know, you want to bring people together. 587 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 5: You're not just trying to get something. When I whenever 588 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 5: I talk about when I'm talking to young people about 589 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 5: show biz, I say, look, let me give you here's 590 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,040 Speaker 5: the best advice I can give you when you're in 591 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 5: the business. But you can use this in any business. 592 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 5: Don't look at it as something you could get something 593 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 5: out of. Look at it as something you could put 594 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 5: something into. What's the contribution you can make that is 595 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 5: a unique contribution because you can't lose with that. You're 596 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 5: going to lose eventually. When you're trying to get something 597 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 5: out of something. You know, maybe I can get this 598 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 5: or maybe I can extract this, don't extract, make a deposit. 599 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 5: You know's the what's the thing of value that I'm 600 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 5: putting into this, the contribution? And that's what your dad did. 601 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 13: You know. 602 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 11: One of the things that is interesting that you talked 603 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 11: about oppressed people because one of the things that he 604 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 11: said was the greatness of America is the right to 605 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 11: promote for right for rights. You know, so that was 606 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 11: foundational to all of his work, and you know why 607 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 11: he did what he did. And you know, right now though, 608 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 11: we're seeing an all out attack really on diversity, equity 609 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,799 Speaker 11: and inclusion, and it's hard not to think about your 610 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 11: role as mister Brown, the diversity educator on the office, 611 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:25,479 Speaker 11: you know, a character he's trying to cut through both 612 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 11: the workplace absurdity and the uncomfortable, unspoken realities of the 613 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 11: racial bias. You did a brilliant job, I think, you know, 614 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 11: bringing that into the conversation. But looking at where we 615 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 11: are today twenty years from that role, are we any 616 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 11: father ahead or does it feel like we're falling father behind? 617 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 5: I mean, it's always a difficult question to ask. In 618 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 5: some aspects, you always are In some aspects you have 619 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 5: to keep your eye on it. You know, there's a 620 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,960 Speaker 5: you know, many times we have to separate something that 621 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 5: feels like a program or a prescription for something versus 622 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 5: what's happening in the culture and keeping your eye on 623 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 5: the culture. What's a political movement, but what's a cultural movement? 624 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:15,720 Speaker 5: What's a political change? What's a cultural change? 625 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 13: You know, the. 626 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,240 Speaker 5: Culture actually is moving forward, but there's been a political 627 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 5: change where it's trying to be a check on that 628 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 5: culture moving forward. And so we're at an inflection point 629 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 5: right now, you know, and that's why it feels very intense, 630 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,480 Speaker 5: you know. But it's rare that culture goes backwards. It's 631 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 5: very rare. Sometimes it goes forward in a way that 632 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:40,880 Speaker 5: isn't necessarily good, you know, but it's still kind of 633 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,279 Speaker 5: moving forward. So it's up to us to steer that 634 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 5: and be stewards and be mindful of the ways in 635 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 5: which it is tumbling forward, you know, because bad actors 636 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 5: are always all around for you know, things that are 637 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 5: self serving that you know, we have have to be 638 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:00,759 Speaker 5: a check on. 639 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us. If you enjoy today's conversation, subscribe, 640 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 2: share and follow us on at my Legacy movement on 641 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:14,399 Speaker 2: social media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday. At 642 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 2: its core, this podcast honors doctor King's vision of the 643 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 2: beloved community and the power of connection. A Legacy Plus 644 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,280 Speaker 2: studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and executive producer Suzanne 645 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 2: Hayward come executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen on the iHeartRadio 646 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,400 Speaker 2: app or wherever you get your podcasts.