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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: Does the name Preston Lord ring a bell? Well, it's

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Speaker 2: the name I will never forget. This handsome young boy,

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Speaker 2: Preston Lord, just sixteen, was beaten dead at a Halloween party.

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Speaker 2: As it turns out, a group of teens terrorizing a

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Speaker 2: sleepy little Arizona town called Gilbert Goons seemingly were behind

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Speaker 2: the attack on this young boy. Well, in the last Days,

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Speaker 2: a bombshell development in the case. I'm Nancy Grace, this

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Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us in

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Speaker 2: the last days, A so called Gilbert Goon suspect, Jacob Pennington,

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Speaker 2: arrested again just hours after he was sentenced to just

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Speaker 2: three year's probation for assault linked to the gang terrorizing

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Speaker 2: the little town including the Phoenix suburbs. That's right, a

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Speaker 2: suspected member of the Gilbert Goons gang arrested again just

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Speaker 2: after being sentenced to straight probation, which is a crime

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Speaker 2: in itself. Jacob Pennington, twenty arrested on suspicion of underage

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Speaker 2: drinking the very same day he gets straight probation. The

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Speaker 2: reign of terror these teens have enjoyed has gone on

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Speaker 2: for two years at least It includes armed robberies, dozens

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Speaker 2: of assaults at parties and in parking lots, several of

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Speaker 2: those assaults with brass knuckles, and it all culminated in

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Speaker 2: the deadly beating of teen boy Preston Lord. What happened

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Speaker 2: the night of that fateful party? A group of tea's

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Speaker 2: getting together at Halloween party?

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Speaker 1: How can it go so wrong?

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna I'm at a party and a bunch of

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Speaker 3: people are with a gun and jump my friend and

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Speaker 3: he's knocked out on the ground. He's been unconscious for

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Speaker 3: like two minutes.

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Speaker 1: We need people over here.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I'm and then started, okay, don't hang up to

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Speaker 4: stand the line with me.

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Speaker 2: You are hearing the nine to one one call from

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Speaker 2: the night this young boy was beaten and kicked brutally

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Speaker 2: until he dies. We've got an all star panel. But

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Speaker 2: first I want to go out to veteran criminal defense attorney,

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Speaker 2: high profile lawyer in inter city Atlanta, Raymond Judice at

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Speaker 2: rayglaw dot com. Ray, as you know you as a

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Speaker 2: defense attorney, me as a prosecutor. The first thing I

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Speaker 2: would like to do when I struck a jury is

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Speaker 2: play the nine to one one call, because witnesses can

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Speaker 2: tell their version on the stand, but there's nothing like

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Speaker 2: what happened at the moment. Agree, disagree, totally agree.

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Speaker 5: It's how you're going to open up your opening statement

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Speaker 5: to a jury. It also sets your timeline for the

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Speaker 5: events that will occur both at the scene and post investigation.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're right, and the first thing you want to

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Speaker 2: do is set up the timeline. Speaking of the nine

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Speaker 2: to one one call in front of a jury, I

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Speaker 2: would play it straight out all the way through. Now

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Speaker 2: listen to more of that nine to one one call.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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Speaker 4: Do you know the people that did this? Are they

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Speaker 4: still there or have they left?

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Speaker 3: I don't know if they left, they're still here. I

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Speaker 3: got out of there as quick responsibles, so.

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Speaker 2: I need to get hurt.

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Speaker 3: I don't know the people that are there. We don't

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Speaker 3: have any beef with them or anything.

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Speaker 4: Do you know did you see the people that assaulted them?

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Speaker 4: Did you see them well enough to get any description

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Speaker 4: or did you not see it?

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Speaker 6: Actually?

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Speaker 4: How they all had They all had mask on and

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Speaker 4: it was how many? Was it a lot? It's like

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Speaker 4: four or five or more like fifteen?

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Speaker 2: Okay, this is every parent's worst nightmare, group or gang mentality.

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Speaker 1: The first case I ever had like this.

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Speaker 2: At that time, we called it wilding when young people

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Speaker 2: or people in general do things as part of a

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Speaker 2: pack that they would never do on their own.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to more of that nine one one call.

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Speaker 4: There's not always enough. Well, I know, I know, I know,

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Speaker 4: we're getting on you.

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Speaker 7: You did all the stuff.

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Speaker 3: Are you still there?

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Speaker 4: I'm still here? Okay. Did he say your friend has

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Speaker 4: a cool snow?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Okay, that's good.

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Speaker 3: My god, dude, I'm so dead.

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Speaker 8: Okay.

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Speaker 2: From here, yeah, you can hear the police arriving in

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Speaker 2: the background, and you hear the callers and the teams

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Speaker 2: gathered around what would soon be a dead body saying

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Speaker 2: I Am so dead. They're worried about themselves being in trouble,

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Speaker 2: and it's amazing to me. I'm about to go to

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Speaker 2: Alexis Tereschuk, Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. It's amazing

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Speaker 2: to me that within hours, literally hours of this teen

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Speaker 2: boy just sixteen years old, and you know, Alexis, this

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Speaker 2: is the age of my John, David and Lucy. Within

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Speaker 2: hours of him being pronounced dead, people were already trying

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Speaker 2: to get money.

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Speaker 9: Listen to Nicole parton Crime online. As Preston Lord lays

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Speaker 9: unconscious on the pavement, friends determine his heart has stopped.

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Speaker 9: Other partygoers perform CPR until police arrive and take over.

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Speaker 9: Lord is taken by ambulance to Chandler Regional Hospital, then

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Speaker 9: transferred to Phoenix Children's in extremely critical condition with a

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Speaker 9: severe brain injury. Preston Lord succumbs to his injuries. For

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Speaker 9: those involved, Lord's death is fodder for social media, some

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Speaker 9: trying to figure out how to cash in on the

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Speaker 9: reward money offered for information about what happened. The suspects

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Speaker 9: discuss the fight over Snapchat, with one of the messages

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Speaker 9: reading my mom once in on the ten thousand dollars.

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Speaker 9: These messages are some of the first real clues police

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Speaker 9: begin to follow.

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Speaker 2: I don't understand, Alexis Treschuk. Within hours after this boy

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Speaker 2: is pronounced dead, people are trying to get thousands of dollars.

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Speaker 1: How is that so?

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Speaker 6: The police offered a reward, a ten thousand dollars reward

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Speaker 6: for any information about this case, because, as the kids

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Speaker 6: said on the nine to one one called, they were

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Speaker 6: in a mask. So at first people were thinking, oh,

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Speaker 6: we don't know the identity of who these people are

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Speaker 6: that beat this little boy to death because they had

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Speaker 6: masks on. So there was a ten thousand dollars reward

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Speaker 6: offered for information leading to unrest. However, these kids that

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Speaker 6: are all talking are the ones that were involved in

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Speaker 6: the beating, and they're so callous. They're saying, oh, my

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Speaker 6: mom wants it on the money because they were involved

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Speaker 6: in it, so if the mom turns in another kid,

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Speaker 6: they'll get the money. But all of these kids were involved,

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Speaker 6: and they were on top of him, punching him, hitting

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Speaker 6: him in fact, so he goes knock to the ground

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Speaker 6: and these guys were on top of him, dry humping him,

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Speaker 6: so simulating like sex or raping this body that was

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Speaker 6: on the ground. Now, which all these other kids, you know,

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Speaker 6: there were hundreds of kids at this party were watching

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Speaker 6: this happen. They're desperately calling nine one one. They're trying

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Speaker 6: to get it stuff. They're scared because they'd seen guns.

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Speaker 6: And it really started because apparently one of the guys

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Speaker 6: grabbed a gold necklace off a girl there, just ripped

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Speaker 6: it off her and stole it. So Preston tried to

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Speaker 6: get it back. He wasn't fighting with these guys he

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Speaker 6: wasn't saying bad things then, wasn't He just tried to

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Speaker 6: get his friend's necklace back, like being a stand up

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Speaker 6: gentleman for his friend, and that's when they unleashed on him.

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Speaker 1: Guys.

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Speaker 2: The day Preston the Lord, this teen boy dies. Apparently

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Speaker 2: another kid, a rich brat, a silver.

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Speaker 1: Spoon in his mouth.

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Speaker 2: Dad is multimillionaire Dad Travis Renner goes to work. According

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Speaker 2: to sources, I'd love to hear from mister Renner if

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Speaker 2: he would join us, trying to cover up his son's involvement.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to Crime Onlines Dave Mack.

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Speaker 10: The day Preston Lord passes away, Talent Render's millionaire father,

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Speaker 10: Travis Renner goes to work trying to cover up the

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Speaker 10: teen's involvement. Renner and his business partner allegedly hand out

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Speaker 10: NDA's and push story that despite Talent Renner having thrown

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Speaker 10: the first punch, Talan Vigil was truly to blame for

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Speaker 10: Lord's death. Renner tells the school his son is being

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Speaker 10: bullied and whisks Talent away to his eight hundred thousand

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Speaker 10: dollars golf club cabin in show Low, Arizona for a

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Speaker 10: week while Talon's hands healed from the fight. Meanwhile, Talon

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Speaker 10: Renter brags to friends on Snapchat, I got in a fight,

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Speaker 10: a big group fight, and I accidentally killed a kid.

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Speaker 10: I guess I'm just too strong.

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Speaker 1: Joining me right now.

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Speaker 2: Board certified forensic pathologists, former medical examiner in Vegas. Never

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Speaker 2: lack a business there, doctor Gan Gorniac. Doctor Gorniac, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to circle back to you about the injury sustained

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Speaker 2: by the boy, the dead boy. But what do you

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Speaker 2: believe they're talking about? After seeing so many dead bodies

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Speaker 2: in the morgue, when we say that we have been

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Speaker 2: told and formed, the father kept his son away for

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Speaker 2: about ho week till his quote injuries healed.

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Speaker 1: What are they talking about?

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Speaker 11: So obviously, when you have any blunt injuries, that means

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Speaker 11: your body hits something or something hit your body. So

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Speaker 11: in this case of this young thug, he actually has

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Speaker 11: injuries on his hands because his hands hit something. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 11: this young man's head, So he's going to have contusions

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Speaker 11: or bruises on his hands. So he's going to probably

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Speaker 11: take depending if he has any other cuts on his hand,

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Speaker 11: it's going to take some time for them to heal.

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Speaker 2: And under Gorniat, you have studied the case, what can

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Speaker 2: you tell us about the victim's injuries. I understand he

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Speaker 2: was beaten and kicked dead. He laid there on the

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Speaker 2: ground while all of these I guess friends frenemies beat

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Speaker 2: him dead. But what is the actual cause of death

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Speaker 2: in a case like this.

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Speaker 11: In a case like this, it sounds like his injuries

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Speaker 11: are blunt first injuries of the head. He got hit

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Speaker 11: so hard with obviously fists. I'm not sure. When they're

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Speaker 11: beating him while he's down, does that mean also and

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Speaker 11: he kicks I'm not sure, but he has extensive head trauma,

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Speaker 11: so therefore he also has some bleeding within his brain.

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Speaker 11: So blood on your brain causes some swelling of your

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Speaker 11: brain and which is incompatible with life. And we heard

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Speaker 11: that he was unconscious at the scene, you know, right

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Speaker 11: after the injuries occurred. So it sounds like.

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Speaker 1: He was hit so hard.

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Speaker 11: Plus his head probably hit concrete, so that in combination

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Speaker 11: really caused some devastating injuries.

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Speaker 2: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace, the Gilbert Goons gang suspect

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Speaker 2: Jacob Pennington arrested again and this is just hours after

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Speaker 2: he gets straight probation for an assault linked to the

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Speaker 2: gang that terrorizes a sleepy little Arizona town the suburbs.

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Speaker 2: Now remember, he was not charged in relation to Preston's death.

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Speaker 2: The gang is suspected in Preston's death. This month alone,

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Speaker 2: Pennington shows up in court on two different occasions for

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Speaker 2: two different alleged crimes. One on June ten for an assault.

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Speaker 2: Three days later, he shows up in court June thirteen,

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Speaker 2: and that's when he sent us to three years probation

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Speaker 2: for an assault. Then later that day he'spused again for

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Speaker 2: underage drinking. He was in a car that was pulled

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Speaker 2: over for a traffic violation. Ten forty five pm after

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Speaker 2: this last arrest, Maricopa County Attorney's Office files a petition

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Speaker 2: to revoke his probation sentence final He's going to jail

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Speaker 2: is just really happening.

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Speaker 1: But what about Preston. Lord read you to cha. I'd

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Speaker 1: like you to address this. It's reminding me a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I know that you followed very closely the case of

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Speaker 2: high profile logout of South Carolina, Alexan Murdaga. He was

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Speaker 2: ultimately convicted in the double murder of his wife, Maggie

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Speaker 2: AND's son Paul. Immediately he tried to change the narrative.

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Speaker 2: What does that mean? That's the now talk of getting

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Speaker 2: someone to change their story, because right at the get go,

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Speaker 2: we've been told and again I welcome the multimillionaire dad

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Speaker 2: to come on and clear all this up.

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Speaker 1: But apparently Renner's a millionaire dad.

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Speaker 2: Tristan Renner goes to work trying to cover up his

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Speaker 2: son's alleged involvement Renner and his business partner.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead and rope in your buddy.

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Speaker 2: In this allegedly hand out NDA's that's a non disclosure agreement,

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Speaker 2: and push a story that the son, the millionaire son

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Speaker 2: Talon Renner, having thrown the first punch, that the victim

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Speaker 2: is truly to blame. Okay, I don't understand that now

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Speaker 2: claiming that his millionaire son has been bullied, well, when

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Speaker 2: it's just that's completely bast awkwards.

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Speaker 1: I mean, can't you go to jail for witness tampering?

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Speaker 5: Ray Well, Phoenix, Arizona's a big town, nancy, but they're

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Speaker 5: going to have to import lawyers from all over the

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Speaker 5: country for all the extra defendants, including parents and business associations,

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Speaker 5: potentially for the quote unquote changing the narrative slash cover up.

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Speaker 5: But what you're clearly trying to set up is a

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Speaker 5: self defense accident case that perhaps a fight broke out

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Speaker 5: between two young men over a disagreement and a young

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Speaker 5: man fell and as a doctor said, get his head

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Speaker 5: on the back of the back of the head on

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Speaker 5: the concrete and I my son may have struck welcome,

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Speaker 5: But there's a causation issue as to which blows cause

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Speaker 5: the fatality, again shaping the narrative, shaping their opening statement

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Speaker 5: for trial.

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Speaker 7: But again there's going to be a lot.

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Speaker 5: Of This is a Lawyer Employment Act of twenty twenty

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Speaker 5: four for Metro Phoenix.

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Speaker 2: The Lawyer Employment Act of twenty twenty four. Hold On,

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Speaker 2: is that Gorniac? Yes, it is Gordia, doctor gordieat hold

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Speaker 2: on before I lose my train of thought here, of course,

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Speaker 2: because I'm scared right now. Did you hear what Raymonds

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Speaker 2: you to Chay just said and he completely said it

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Speaker 2: with a straight face.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this kid was beaten.

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Speaker 2: He was down on the ground, still being beaten, still

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Speaker 2: being punched until.

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Speaker 1: He dies, he dies. Why am I angry?

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Speaker 2: Because my son and my daughter are the same age

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Speaker 2: as this boy.

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Speaker 1: They go to parties and you heard you to Chay,

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Speaker 1: just spin it. He's spinning it. You don't like what

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Speaker 1: he says.

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Speaker 2: I don't, But that's what's gonna happen in court, and

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Speaker 2: District Attorney, you darn well better be ready. Did you

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Speaker 2: hear what he says? Changing the narrative? What does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Lying?

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Speaker 2: That's what changing the narrative means that now the victim fell.

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Speaker 2: The victim did not fall. He was punched, and we know,

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Speaker 2: according to witnesses, suit through the front first.

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Speaker 1: Punch he fell. And now we're going to have.

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Speaker 2: A causation issue, my rear end. Gornia, you started this

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Speaker 2: all right now, Judy Sha picked it up and ran

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Speaker 2: with it. That he fell and just died. He fell

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Speaker 2: and died. You know, I've fallen a lot, a lot, running,

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Speaker 2: chasing the children, being a cheerleader. This that I never

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Speaker 2: just died because I fell. But this is the spin out.

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Speaker 1: This is a new.

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Speaker 2: Recitation. History is being rewritten by Gornia. And you know,

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Speaker 2: Gorniac I always agree with you and ju to Shay,

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Speaker 2: that's what's gonna happen at trial.

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Speaker 1: Ray, that's what's gonna happen at trial. What you just did.

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Speaker 12: A tipster notifies police that Talon. Renner admitted to a

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Speaker 12: friend that he threw the first punch. Owen Hines told

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Speaker 12: a friend he only kicked him in the stomach. Nearly

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Speaker 12: all the witnesses point out trust and Billy and Dominic

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Speaker 12: Turner as aggressors due to their distinct costumes that night.

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Speaker 12: Turner wore all black while Billy donned a white suit.

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Speaker 12: Using the suspects, digital media investigators find Taylor Sherman, who

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Speaker 12: admits to taking a video of Preston as he is

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Speaker 12: unconscious on the ground and sending it out on Snapchat.

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Speaker 12: Talan Vigil also sent a message reading I hit a

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Speaker 12: kid and this kid fell hit his head, then they

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Speaker 12: kicked his head in the ground. Then I got word

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Speaker 12: he died.

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Speaker 2: So idy k you were hearing Sidney Sumner from crime

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Speaker 2: online dot com And what stands out to me is

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Speaker 2: that a tipster notifies police that the millionaire juvenile tailor

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Speaker 2: Renter admits he throws the first punch and then it's

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Speaker 2: a free for all with this little boy.

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Speaker 1: Being kicked and beaten dead.

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Speaker 2: Seven young men, including the high school football star talent Renter,

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Speaker 2: aged seventeen, which is important why is he in juvenile court,

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Speaker 2: have been charged in the brutal murder of teen boy

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Speaker 2: Preston Lord. We are also learning that group violence by

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Speaker 2: teens in the Phoenix area is growing, and now there's

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Speaker 2: a huge wave of public of citizens demanding justice that

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Speaker 2: there is not two tier justice.

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Speaker 1: One for the rich man and one for the poor man.

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Speaker 2: But that's what it seems to be shaping up as

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Speaker 2: after local law enforce spent give Talon Renner's parents special

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Speaker 2: valet parking for their tesla at the courthouse, then they

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Speaker 2: had to backtrack and apologize out that's embarrassing. But right now,

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Speaker 2: instead of discussing the dad's tesla, let me bring backhand

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Speaker 2: doctor Jan Gorniac, a renowned medical examiner and high profile

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Speaker 2: lawyer in the Atlanta jurisdiction Raymond Judaica. Doctor Gorniac, you

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Speaker 2: were clarifying your analysis.

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Speaker 11: What were you saying, well, listening to mister Raymond about

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Speaker 11: possibly saying that it was the fall and not the

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Speaker 11: punch that caused his death. In our forensic world, we

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Speaker 11: use a butt for the butt for the punch, he

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Speaker 11: wouldn't have fallen and hit his head. I've had cases

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Speaker 11: where someone swung and missed and fell and ended up dying.

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Speaker 1: And that's still ruled a homicide.

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Speaker 11: So I understand what the defense and might come in

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Speaker 11: and tried to say, but from where I sit, that's

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Speaker 11: still a homicide just because I mean, but for a punch,

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Speaker 11: he wouldn't have just fallen and hit his head.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like he tripped and fell down the stairs.

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Speaker 11: Something contacted his head to cause him to fall. So

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Speaker 11: that's why, no matter what they come in and say,

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Speaker 11: this would still be ruled a homicide from the medical

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Speaker 11: examiner's standpoint.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you're right, doctor Gorniac.

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Speaker 2: But somebody like Raymond Jiudice is gonna take that thread

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Speaker 2: and run with it till your whole sweater is nothing

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Speaker 2: but a pile of yarn. It's gonna be all over

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Speaker 2: It's like a pack of cats for it up. Because

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Speaker 2: you're absolutely correct, this boy would not be on the

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Speaker 2: ground dying if that first punch had not been thrown.

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Speaker 1: There's your butt four.

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Speaker 2: He's gonna argue at trial, Yeah, he threw the first punch,

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Speaker 2: but he didn't kill him.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is what I would say, is a prosecutor.

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Speaker 2: They're all going in the same pot to stew. Nobody's

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Speaker 2: getting a plea. Everybody is going to trial for murder

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Speaker 2: because I want you, Jerry, to think what it would

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Speaker 2: be like lying on the floor, the ground, the pavement,

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Speaker 2: looking up at all these faces.

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Speaker 1: And halloween masks.

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Speaker 2: This bizarre scenario when you're taking a blow to the head,

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Speaker 2: a kick to the kidney so vicious you end up

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Speaker 2: dying and the last thing you see is this gang

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Speaker 2: of animals over you, dressed in these Halloween outfits, kicking

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Speaker 2: and beating you dead. Oh hell no, nobody is getting

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Speaker 2: a plea.

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Speaker 1: All right, go ahead.

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Speaker 7: Ray, Well, I agree with the doctor. She's an expert.

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Speaker 5: But the argument that I made, which I believe we

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Speaker 5: will have expert testimony to, will at least allow number one,

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Speaker 5: a lesser included charge of involuntary manslaughter to a jury. Okay,

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Speaker 5: that's number one. And you know how critical that is.

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Speaker 5: It allows a jury to find for a lesser included charge.

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Speaker 5: It allows a defense to argue that in closing. And

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Speaker 5: I'll bet you dimes to dollars, Nancy, one of these

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Speaker 5: young men's going to take a plea, and now you

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Speaker 5: know how it works.

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Speaker 2: They're not taking a play unless I offer a pla.

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Speaker 2: You can't take a plea. That has to have been offered.

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Speaker 7: They'll take a plea. You wait and see someone's going

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Speaker 7: to offer it. Now.

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Speaker 5: I know you might not offer it, and I agree,

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Speaker 5: I understand how you would play it. But I guarantee

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Speaker 5: you close to trial, somebody's going to roll. Someone's gonna

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Speaker 5: come up and be a state's witness so they can

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Speaker 5: get that murder conviction that you want.

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Speaker 2: Preston Lord died a horrible death deadly beating at a

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Speaker 2: teen Halloween party. In the last days, an alleged member

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Speaker 2: of the so called Gilbert Goon's gang arrested again just

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Speaker 2: after getting a straight probation sentence on another incident. He

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Speaker 2: has never been named as the killer in Preston Lord's case.

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Speaker 2: I would not be happy with just one, and I

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Speaker 2: don't want the rich kid to be the scapegoat. They're

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Speaker 2: all part of this, and you know it's so great

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Speaker 2: about it. They were taking videos, these jackasses technical legal phrase,

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Speaker 2: they're taking videos, bringing in Julie Lewis, digital forensic expert,

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Speaker 2: President CEO of Digital Mountain, Inc. Julie, if anything can

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Speaker 2: make me happy about this scenario, it's the advent of

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Speaker 2: a cell phone.

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Speaker 1: They're all taking videos.

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Speaker 2: Now, how do you think a jury is going to

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Speaker 2: react to a gang attack on a single victim already down, unarmed.

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Speaker 1: Not good, Not good.

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Speaker 13: Those smartphones have a ton of digital evidence. In this case,

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Speaker 13: they're using Snapchat as their messaging app for pictures and messages,

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Speaker 13: and there's a lot of other things like Instagram, social

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Speaker 13: media online that could be looked at. We do that

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Speaker 13: all the time, we do open source intelligence investigations with kids.

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Speaker 13: They have no filter these messages. Also, you have to

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Speaker 13: get them quickly because a lot of these are ephemeral

400
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Speaker 13: applications like Snapchat. If you do a snap it'll disappear

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Speaker 13: by default immediately unless the user changes it to holding

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Speaker 13: a message for twenty four hours or not at all.

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Speaker 2: Julie, Yes, that was my next question because all the

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Speaker 2: time my twins are went, well, I got so's so Snapchat.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, show me, you know what's gone.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if they're just telling me that yeah,

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Speaker 2: or if it really is gone. Can they retrieve a Snapchat?

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00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 2: Can it be retrieved by LA law enforcement?

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Speaker 13: So law enforcement has access to be able to see

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Speaker 13: more on the phones than we can on the commercial side.

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Speaker 13: It's called a physical image, and in that they may

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Speaker 13: be those databases could be decrypted.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you've already lost me. Is that a yes or

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Speaker 2: a no? Can you're saying yes, I can retrieve a snapchat.

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Speaker 13: I'm going to give you a lawyer answer.

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Speaker 1: It depends.

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Speaker 2: Listen, I'm a lawyer. I can try a murder case

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Speaker 2: doing what you're doing. They didn't teach me that in

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Speaker 2: criminal law. So I just need a black and white.

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Speaker 2: Is there a chance I can get those snaps back?

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Speaker 1: It's possible.

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Speaker 13: So it's similar to having a camera in your office

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00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 13: that's randomly taking screenshots. There are parts of the phone

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Speaker 13: that store things in something called memory, and so it depends.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you know what.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to have to work with you, as I've

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Speaker 2: told many a witness, because you're not helping me.

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Speaker 1: Right now, all right, I gotta narrow.

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Speaker 2: This thing down and get an answer that when I

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Speaker 2: say a jury will understand, I mean that I will understand.

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Speaker 2: And quick question, Alexis terest and I want Julie Lewis

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Speaker 2: to hear this. It's not just the snaps, Alexis. These

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Speaker 2: jackasses bragged they sent texts back and forth. There are

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Speaker 2: not just snaps which can disappear, but there are texts.

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Speaker 6: Yes, text messages where the kids are saying, I hit

436
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Speaker 6: the kid. He hit his head. The other kids jumped

437
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Speaker 6: on the ground. I think he died. Another one, Talon Renner, says,

438
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Speaker 6: I got in a fight with a kid. I hit him.

439
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 6: I think he died. I didn't even know my own strength.

440
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 6: Another kid writes, bro that kid died. They know it,

441
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 6: and they're saying also, one of them said, do not

442
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 6: delete the video because you can use that and you

443
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 6: can get ten thousand dollars. This the ten thousand dollars

444
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 6: the FBI announced as a reward, so you can use

445
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 6: that and you can get the money. So they're all

446
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 6: admitting they knew that there was video of this murder.

447
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: Bragging.

448
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 2: Did I just hear Alexis Tereschuk say bragging and deleting evidence?

449
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 2: Did I hear that was somebody bragging? And did someone

450
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 2: ask for everyone to delete or not delete evidence?

451
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 6: They were bragging to each other. They were messaging each other,

452
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 6: not just pictures on Snapchat, messaging each other. They and

453
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 6: then another kid wrote to the kid that had the

454
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 6: video who had taken video at the fight, and said, dude,

455
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 6: don't delete that video because you can get ten thousand

456
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 6: dollars because the police had offered a reward for it.

457
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 6: So they're saying, your video could be given as evidence

458
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 6: and then you could win, not win, you can get

459
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 6: the reward of money. So they are clearly stating there

460
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 6: is video of the murder and that they should not

461
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 6: delete it because as it can be used to help

462
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 6: them get money. No, oh, this is going to help

463
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,040
Speaker 6: our friend go to jail. This is going to take

464
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 6: the bad guys out. But you're going to get money.

465
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 6: You're going to cash in on this.

466
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: You know what.

467
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 2: The jury is going to have a bad taste in

468
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 2: their mouth about all of these guys. That is why

469
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 2: defendants very often will seek a severance. In other words,

470
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 2: they want to be tried separately from each other. But

471
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: if it's not a death penalty case, and there are

472
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 2: no interlocking statements where one defendant bring blames the other defendant,

473
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,479
Speaker 2: if the state doesn't use those, these guys are going

474
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: to be tried together. Why is that significant, Because let's

475
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 2: just pretend Alexis and I rob a bank and I

476
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 2: blame Alexis.

477
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 1: Because of course it's going to be her fault.

478
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: If we're tried together, she won't be able to cross

479
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,959
Speaker 2: examine me on me blaming her, because I'm certainly not

480
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 2: going to take the stand. No way that denies her

481
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: under the sixth Amendment of her right to confront the

482
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: state's witnesses. Even though I'm a defendant and a bank robbery,

483
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 2: I'm still a state's witness. So if the state chooses

484
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 2: not to use those interlocking confessions, then they can be

485
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: tried together. And what I advise to the state not

486
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 2: there they care what I think, but don't use the statements.

487
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: You don't need them. You've got video people. Try them

488
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: all together again. Stu in the same pot, I want

489
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: to address to Julie Lewis, digital forensics expert CEO Digital Mountain.

490
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 2: What about what Alexis just told us that a lot

491
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: of these communications were not a picture, which is normally

492
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: what snapchat is.

493
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 1: But a written message. How about those?

494
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 2: Please give me a yes note, do not go into

495
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 2: digital land.

496
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 1: Just tell me. Can I get those messages back? Okay? Well,

497
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: oh here she goes, go ahead.

498
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 13: Well, I just want to educate a little bit. So

499
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 13: snaps can be video and pictures, and then there's chats

500
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 13: which are also on Snapchat, and it's Snapchat is meant

501
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 13: to delete things fairly quickly, so snaps are usually a

502
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 13: media fault in the chats are within twenty four hours.

503
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 13: But don't forget about the need of message on the

504
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 13: phone as well. So there's all these different messaging apps

505
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 13: that teenagers use, and you got to look at them

506
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 13: all because there could be more evidence there in the

507
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 13: photos and pictures and all sorts of stuff that are

508
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,560
Speaker 13: your treasure trove. What is a native message, that's what's

509
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 13: the messaging app on the phone that comes pre installed.

510
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 13: That's not a third party out.

511
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: Okay, so you mean like it's not snap, so the

512
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: phone itself may contain evidence. Okay, let's see our defense

513
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 2: attorney expert Raymond's udica. So you know all that stuff

514
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: you were saying, let me get in my notes. I

515
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: think I threw them away. All your theory about oh,

516
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 2: he just fell and just died because he.

517
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: Fell, and what did you say?

518
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 2: Oh, I've got to find there's going to be a

519
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 2: quote causation issue. A causation issue translation, the defense is

520
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 2: going to claim that the beating inflicted by these seven

521
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 2: people is not why the guy died. This little boy

522
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: died because he fell, all right, that's where he's going.

523
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: But what about the videos? What about the text messages?

524
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 2: What about the messages via Snap And as Julie said,

525
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 2: the message is native to the phone. That don't just

526
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 2: disappear on a third party app. You think you might

527
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: be in a little hot water.

528
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 7: Now it's the timeline.

529
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 5: You're going to start with those nine to one one

530
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 5: recordings and you're going to move. As our legal technical

531
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 5: out and expert just stated, all of these emails and

532
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 5: text messages and photos will have a time stamp, and

533
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 5: a good prosecutor is going to surgically one after another

534
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 5: set out the time frame. Quite frankly, the prosecutor and

535
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 5: the team's biggest problem maybe having too many texts and

536
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 5: statements coming from who knows who. But again, sometimes Nancy,

537
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 5: when there's not a severance and you've got seven co

538
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 5: defendants with high priced legal counsel, confusion. I hate to

539
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 5: use it, but that's part of the tense strategy. It

540
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 5: wasn't me who punched him that caused the death causation.

541
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 5: It's co defendant Johnson who kicked him in the stomach

542
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 5: that caused the death. And that's what you're going to

543
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 5: see at trial. One quick thing one quick thing. I

544
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 5: think they're all going to be treated as adults and

545
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,400
Speaker 5: tried and as you call it, big boycourt. However, the

546
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 5: option of taking a defendant a co defendant and treating

547
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 5: him as a juvenile is a very enticing situation for

548
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 5: a plea bargain.

549
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 7: Keep that in mind.

550
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: That's interesting because I've never been enticed ever to allow

551
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: a killer to play it out in guy. I'm not

552
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 2: happy about the situation, but I did try a thirteen

553
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 2: year old for murder in adult court.

554
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 1: Did I like it?

555
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 8: No?

556
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: Was in my duty? Yes?

557
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 2: Did he get convicted, Yes, because he jumped into a pawnshop,

558
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: stole a handful of dolt ropes gold chain, shot three people,

559
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 2: killing one and leaving the other one in a wheelchair

560
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: in a colostomy back for the rest of his life.

561
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 2: Hell no, he's not being treated as a juvenile. That said,

562
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 2: I've never heard of too much evidence for the state,

563
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: but thank you for floating another defense theory.

564
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

565
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 2: It's called one of America's best places to raise children,

566
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 2: but the brutal, deadly beating of a sixteen year old

567
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 2: boy Preston Lord, highlights a disturbing issue teen violence in

568
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 2: araz Zona suburbs. These kids have been given everything, fed

569
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 2: with a silver spoon, and this is what happens this perp.

570
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 2: Twenty year old Jacob Pennington confessed to police he was

571
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 2: part of the Gilbert Goons, claiming the name originated from

572
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 2: a Snapchat group. Now this is according to police documents.

573
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 2: The group has been officially designated as a gang.

574
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 1: What took so long? Now?

575
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 2: The police chief explains, the Gilbert Goons are a quote

576
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 2: hybrid gang because they rely on social media and there

577
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 2: is no real code of conduct that you find in

578
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 2: a lot of gangs.

579
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: But I do know this.

580
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 2: The Gilbert Goons have been involved in at least ninety

581
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: five assaults in eighteen separate attacks, most in Gilbert. Now

582
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 2: that's what I learned. According to the Arizona Republic, Gilbert, Arizona,

583
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 2: it's a very wealthy Phoenix suburb and it was once

584
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: touted as the second safest city in the whole country.

585
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 2: But it's been all over the news because of these

586
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 2: teen delinquents allegedly terrorizing the community.

587
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 1: As far back as twenty twenty two.

588
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 2: Videos of teen attacks and claims made by victims about

589
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 2: this gang's reign of terror now in the hands of police.

590
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: The woman who made the initial nine to one one

591
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,240
Speaker 2: call tried to get help for the teen boy victim.

592
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: Listen to her nine to one one call.

593
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 9: Can we please get an officer at the corner of

594
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 9: one hundred and ninety.

595
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,480
Speaker 4: Seventh Place in Beda Palmers. There is got to be

596
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 4: at least two hundred and fifty kiss here. They're walking

597
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 4: the streets. We're not used to this. I'm not used

598
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 4: to this in my neighborhood for.

599
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:54,720
Speaker 2: Being here twenty five years.

600
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 3: There's too many cars. These kids are going to hit

601
00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 3: each other.

602
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 8: Someone's gonna get her.

603
00:35:58,920 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 4: Someone's gonna get real.

604
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 2: Gina Pinatello, the neighbor who called nine one one, Jina,

605
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 2: tell me what happened.

606
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 8: We live at the entrance of the subdivision, and there

607
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 8: were dozens of dozens upon dozens of cars parked back

608
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 8: to back every side of the street coming in and

609
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 8: out of the subdivision. Teenagers, large groups of teenagers walking everywhere.

610
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,399
Speaker 8: You know, in a normally quiet neighborhood. It was kind

611
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 8: of shocking to walk out and see it's kind of

612
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 8: mass crowd forming and coming in and out of the subdivision.

613
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 8: So my husband and I immediately said we might want

614
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 8: to call the police. And as soon as we're saying that,

615
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,959
Speaker 8: we see the police actually come into the subdivision. Within

616
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 8: another five to ten minutes, we watched the police circle

617
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,440
Speaker 8: the block and leave, and you immediately started teams just

618
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 8: continued to fill the neighborhood. You could clearly see students

619
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 8: or children walking with bottles cans, appear to be intoxicated somewhere, yeah,

620
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 8: you know. And then we started to.

621
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: See accidents yelling what ga.

622
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 8: You know they were they were yelling things like, h

623
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 8: don't get drunk kids, you know, just appearing intoxicated and

624
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 8: holding what looked like hands up in the air, you know.

625
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 8: So you could see this was starting to get rowdy

626
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 8: as in the streets. And then within a few minutes

627
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,879
Speaker 8: of that, you started we started seeing accidents. So now

628
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 8: they're jam packed in this neighborhood. Some are trying to

629
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 8: get in and out of the subdivision. You can't even

630
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 8: turn off the main road, and they start rear ending

631
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 8: one another. They might hop out quickly look and then

632
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 8: they're driving away from these accidents. We hear another accident

633
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 8: down the road, and then within seconds we start seeing

634
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,479
Speaker 8: groups of teens jumping over our back fence, so coming

635
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 8: out of our backyard, jumping into our front yard, running

636
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 8: into cars, and I said, this is getting out of control.

637
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 8: H We've got to call nine to one to one,

638
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 8: and that's and we need the police back here. And

639
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 8: that's when I made my call. And when I made

640
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,840
Speaker 8: that Calligue didn't know at the same time the attack

641
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 8: on Preston and the other young boys was taking place.

642
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 6: At that scene exact.

643
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 2: Time with me is Gina Pignitello who was speaking out, a.

644
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:19,760
Speaker 1: Boy is dead.

645
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: Instead of graduating from high school and going on all

646
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 2: these college tours, it's over for him. And it's not

647
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: just him that's gone, his parents' hopes, their dreams, all

648
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 2: their energy, all their love, all their money and to

649
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 2: their boy, Preston. Lord, when did you learn, Gina Pignitello,

650
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: that a boy had been essentially stopped dead in your neighborhood.

651
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 8: Yeah, my neighbors and I actually didn't learn the details

652
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 8: until Monday. So this occurred Saturday evening and we didn't

653
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 8: learn the details until Monday. You know, we began kind

654
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 8: of neighbor sharing text and the gofund me, Oh my goodness,

655
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 8: this poor young man is fighting for his life. And

656
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 8: then within a few hours we learned that that he

657
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:22,880
Speaker 8: had died. Yeah, just we could have never you know, imagined.

658
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 2: The parents were in it was their super Bowl, their

659
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 2: son was coming into his own all those years of

660
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: love and nurturing and now this when you learned about

661
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 2: what happened to Gana, What were you told? Did everybody

662
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 2: know who did it?

663
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 8: Pretty immediately I like to call them the kind of

664
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:52,879
Speaker 8: parents of the East Valley began sharing and setting up

665
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 8: We've heard these names, We've seen these snapchat messages. Groups

666
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 8: started forming because we were getting no answer. But I

667
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 8: can tell you within those first few days, that first week,

668
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 8: the names we saw that were arrested were the same

669
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 8: names we saw within those first few days we heard

670
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 8: about the families like the Renters taking their son to

671
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 8: hide him up in the mountains, hide injuries. These parents

672
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 8: that began gathering all this information, much of what was

673
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 8: in the police report, we were learning and had and

674
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 8: we're getting videos within that first week of this incident

675
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 8: happening and.

676
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 2: Joining me now esteemed forensic psychologists doctor Sherry Schwartz. She

677
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 2: specializes in capital mitigation and victim advocacy. You can find

678
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 2: her at panthermitigation dot com and she's the author. She

679
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 2: literally wrote the book on criminal behavior and another book

680
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 2: where law and psychology intersect. Doctor Sherry Schwartz, thank you

681
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: for being with us, I was saying at the beginning,

682
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 2: doctor Sherry, And I'm sure you can say much more

683
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 2: eloquently than I can. People do things in a group

684
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 2: they wouldn't normally do on their own.

685
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:06,879
Speaker 1: Do I care?

686
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 2: No, I care that this boy is dead and as millionaire,

687
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 2: the millionaire at defendant's father has been hiding him out

688
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: and a million dollar golf cabin. There's such a thing

689
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 2: as flight after a crime, where you hide from law enforcement.

690
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 2: That never looks good. I want to talk to you

691
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 2: about the group mentality here and whether it actually relieves

692
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: anyone of responsibility.

693
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:31,760
Speaker 1: Well.

694
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 14: I work, also, Nancy, on a lot of juvenile direct

695
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 14: file cases. When I say direct file, basically what I

696
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 14: mean is they're charged as an adult, and in my experience, no,

697
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 14: it doesn't absolve them of legal responsibility. I think people

698
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:50,080
Speaker 14: can argue it doesn't absolve them of moral responsibility. I

699
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 14: expect that super some super lawyers like Ray Judice will

700
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 14: come forth with arguments about juvenile brain and how their

701
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 14: brain isn't fully developed and this can account for some

702
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 14: of the behavior. And there's group dynamics at work as well,

703
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 14: such as mob mentality. There's always at least one or

704
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 14: two leaders. The larger the group, the less informed the

705
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 14: fringe members are. But they go along, they conform with

706
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 14: the behavior. But still at the end of the day,

707
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 14: under the legal system, in my experience, this doesn't really

708
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,400
Speaker 14: much matter. They're going to be held accountable just the

709
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 14: same as the person that started the brawl.

710
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 2: Teens and young men, including goon suspects now charged with

711
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 2: the murder of Preston Lord. Members of the community up

712
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 2: in arms, claiming these perps should have been taken off

713
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 2: the streets a long time ago.

714
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend,