1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: Because strength and black women have become synonymous, and that's 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: not necessarily a bad thing, but it can't be a 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: crippling thing in the sense that we assume that we 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: always have to wear this cape, and that if we're 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: not always the model of strength, then we're somehow being imperfect. 6 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:20,919 Speaker 1: We also don't want to fall into the trap of 7 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: always thinking that we have to be somebody else's savior, 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: because sometimes the person that needs the most saving is us. 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 2: That was Jamel Hill, Award winning sports journalist, sharing her 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 2: hard won lessons about redefining strength. In this Best of 11 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 2: My Legacy bonus drop, hosts Martin Luther King the Third, 12 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: Andrea Waters, King, Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger celebrate their 13 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 2: conversation with groundbreaking women who fought to find their voice 14 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,479 Speaker 2: and the people who help them hold on to it. 15 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 2: We'll hear Jamel Hill on finding a balance between strength 16 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 2: and vulnerability and how you know you have the right 17 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 2: person in your corner. Sarah Jakes Roberts and her mother 18 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: Serita Jake on breaking generational cycles, reclaiming your voice and 19 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: rising together. First up, Mel Robbins on how grit is built, 20 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: strength is learned, and why both are passed down in 21 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,199 Speaker 2: unexpected ways. 22 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 3: Well, let's get in. You know, Mel, we've all heard 23 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 3: through the books, the podcast, your incredible life journey so far, 24 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 3: and so much of your legacy that was shaped from 25 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 3: where you were raised, proud Midwestern through and through. Yes, 26 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 3: so can you take us back way back to those 27 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 3: early days and some of these stories and moments that 28 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 3: shaped your view of legacy and the impact you have 29 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 3: made on the world today. 30 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 4: What I have been reflecting upon is I've been thinking 31 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 4: about this topic of legacy and the extreme honor it 32 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 4: is to be here and talk to you all about 33 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 4: this and unpack this topic. Is that even as a 34 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 4: little girl, I remember my mom being very, very involved 35 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 4: in service ly and I remember how she would go 36 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 4: down to the farmer's market and it would take forever 37 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 4: because she would talk to every single far armor there, 38 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 4: didn't matter what they were growing or what they were selling. 39 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 4: She knew their names, she knew their grandchildren, she knew 40 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 4: the dog's name, she knew how to pick out a 41 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 4: peach versus how to I mean, it was just amazing. 42 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 4: And my father every Thursday would always go up to Shelby, 43 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 4: Michigan because they didn't have a hospital so he would 44 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 4: be in a clinic, so he could be the surgeon 45 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 4: on and so there's always just this service minded thing. 46 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 4: And the other thing that really struck me is I 47 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 4: remember my mom. My mom's got a lot of moxy, 48 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 4: and I just I really get a lot of my 49 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 4: gumption to just try things from her. And I remember 50 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 4: at one point she and her best friend Susie decided 51 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 4: they were going to open a store in downtown Muskegan, Michigan, 52 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 4: and they weren't going to do it in the mall 53 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 4: because she wanted to do it her way, which I 54 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 4: just love. And so she opened it, you know, a 55 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 4: block away from the mall, and it was a kitchen 56 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 4: gourmet store. Now I'm talking nineteen eighty two. This was 57 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 4: before the big stores, was before flavored coffee was a. 58 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 5: Thing, and it was showing the time of tublewhere parties. 59 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 4: That's right, that's right, that's right. And so she's like, 60 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 4: I just want to do this thing. I remember they 61 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 4: went to the bank that my parents banked, and my 62 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 4: mom and Susie walked in and they were just looking 63 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 4: for a small line of credit to start this little business, right, 64 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 4: and they were going to go to the Chicago Gift Show, 65 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 4: and they knew what they were going to like get 66 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 4: because they were both big cooks, and they're all excited 67 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 4: to sell the vanilla coffee because they didn't have that Muskegan, Michigan. 68 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 4: So they go to the bank where we have all 69 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 4: of our banking like everything, the mortgage, the bank, everything, 70 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 4: And so my mom and Susie walk in there, and 71 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 4: Susie is a customer too with her husband, and they 72 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 4: go to apply for a loan and they're filling out 73 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 4: the paperwork and the people are like, this should be 74 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 4: no problem, and then all of a sudden they say, well, 75 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 4: you're just going to have to have your husband's co signed. 76 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 5: Yes, oh yes, my mom. 77 00:03:56,080 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 6: My mom stood up, walked over to the teller and 78 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 6: proceeded to start to close the counts one by one. 79 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 4: Wow, because she was a co signer on every account. 80 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 4: I'll tell you what she got that loan. 81 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 6: And so it also just struck me that. 82 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 4: In just little ways you can make a difference in 83 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 4: your community that you know, you don't get what you 84 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 4: don't ask for, and you know, just kind of the 85 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 4: value of putting your head down and chipping away at 86 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 4: things over time, you know. 87 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 3: Sarah, you grew up in one of the most extraordinary, 88 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 3: influential faith families here in America. Can you share with 89 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 3: us a recollection or story from your childhood and help 90 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 3: us to understand what's it like growing up as a Jinx. 91 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 7: You know, I have this one photo of me. We're 92 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 7: at this conference and I was back to the Bible, 93 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 7: and it's my sister and I sitting on the front row. 94 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 7: My mother's mother, my granny is sitting beside us, and 95 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 7: we're standing and we're looking at this stage and my 96 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 7: sister looks so excited, and I look like a little confused, 97 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 7: a little amazed. And I think that that probably encapsulates 98 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 7: what it meant to be part of such a large family. 99 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 7: That there were these moments of pure just awe and 100 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 7: amazement and just wonder at what was taking place, And 101 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 7: then there were some moments of confusion where I wondered, 102 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,960 Speaker 7: how do I fit into that? Do I fit into that? 103 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 7: And I think balancing that tension of confusion and amazement 104 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 7: is ultimately what allowed me to discover my own identity. 105 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:46,599 Speaker 7: But it was both brilliant and challenging in many ways. 106 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 8: You know, I know a little something maybe about being 107 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 8: a preacher's. 108 00:05:53,680 --> 00:06:01,679 Speaker 9: Kidd but there obviously are additional dynamics when your parents 109 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 9: are larger than life. And so missus Jakes, how did 110 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 9: you help Sarah navigate through those potential challenges that would come. 111 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 10: Well, you know, when I think of a legacy, I 112 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 10: was thinking today, you're looking forward, but you're also looking backwards. 113 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 10: And when we got to this huge city, I did 114 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 10: not realize that I was going to have to move 115 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 10: to the forefront and that my children would be left 116 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 10: alone without me hedging them on either side. And my 117 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:39,720 Speaker 10: mother died shortly after we got here. So in hindsight, 118 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 10: I would have done what she does. She'd makes certain 119 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 10: that her children are wherever she is. I wish I 120 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 10: had done that more. And so seeing her overcome the 121 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 10: lack of my presence to try to do it differently 122 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 10: than I would have even thought to do, it's amazing 123 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 10: to me. 124 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 7: I will say, though, even though you guys had a 125 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 7: lot of responsibilities and a lot of things going on, 126 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 7: I think one of the things that my mother did 127 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 7: is that when she was present, she was completely present. 128 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 7: You would let us sleep in the bed with you. 129 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 7: We would always be doing dinner like you'd have us 130 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 7: running around doing errands with you, like I never felt 131 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 7: like a burden to you. And I think because I 132 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:26,000 Speaker 7: never felt like a burden, I always felt like I 133 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 7: could be seen and heard and valued. And we needed 134 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 7: those pockets of that in a moment where all attention 135 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 7: was like maybe on my dad or maybe on the 136 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 7: both of them. My mom was the space where we 137 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 7: could take the stage and she would be our audience 138 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 7: and we could put on whatever raggedy gift or cooking menu, 139 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 7: our little recipes or auditions and dance and plays like 140 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 7: she made us feel like stars in the moments that 141 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 7: she was able to look at us. And so I 142 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 7: think that you preserved our special even as you were balancing. 143 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 10: All those things. Oh where's the. 144 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 5: Had to be such a tremendous amount of weight on 145 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 5: you to, you know, to be balancing all of that 146 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 5: and to be a mom, and so to hear your 147 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 5: daughter giving you, I think that those much needed accolades 148 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 5: is beautiful. 149 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 10: It's so beautiful because you know how the enemy will 150 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 10: try to rob you with guilt and would have, should have, 151 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 10: could us And so I'm so I knew you felt 152 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 10: that way, but to have you articulated today I'm a 153 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 10: little weepy. 154 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 8: Yeah, missus Jakes. When you see who your daughter has become, 155 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 8: what are you most proud of? 156 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 10: I think the fact that she survived that I'm grateful 157 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 10: that she survived. There was so many the vicissitudes of 158 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 10: her life. A lot I didn't know until she wrote 159 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 10: about it. A lot of it I witnessed first time. 160 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 10: But to know that she survived at all, you know, 161 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 10: pearls are formed in irritation, and diamonds come from cold, 162 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 10: and people always want the end result, but they didn't 163 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 10: see the story along the way. So when I see 164 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 10: her ministering and her first woman evolved, this is her 165 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 10: generation that seeks hope. And so when I see her, 166 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 10: I feel like, you go girl, you go girl. But 167 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 10: at the same time, I'm the watchman on the wall, 168 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 10: and it's like, don't don't, don't disrespect her, don't try 169 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 10: to disrupt what God is doing at that moment, because 170 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 10: you know, some people will come and they want to 171 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 10: outspeak her without the MC. So I'm the one that says, 172 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 10: sh hush, stop it. It's not your turn. And so 173 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 10: I'm I'm most in awe of the gift of God 174 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 10: that's in her and flowing through her. I don't. I 175 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 10: don't see her as my daughter. I see her as 176 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 10: God's messenger of hope for me, for her daughter, for 177 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 10: my mother, and you doing what I was unable to do, 178 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 10: and and the stance that you've taken upon the centuries 179 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 10: of hard labor that our mothers are are the female 180 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 10: generation had to go through. But as uh. And so 181 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 10: when I see her, I see glory. When I hear her, 182 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 10: I hear glory. When I'm in the room with her, 183 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 10: I feel glory. And so that's that's I just Hollywood 184 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 10: oopscuse say Halleylujah. 185 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 5: You can say hallelujah on this podcast? 186 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 7: Can I say? Though, to the point of the podcast 187 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 7: being about legacy, this is my belief. So when people 188 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,800 Speaker 7: hear me speak, I think the low hanging fruit. The 189 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 7: easy thing to say is, oh, my God, she's stepping 190 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 7: into her father's footsteps and she's doing exactly what her 191 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 7: father did. And I honor my father, and I believe 192 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 7: so much about what I understand about God and people 193 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 7: is a part of what I have seen him demonstrate 194 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 7: through his ministry and what He's allowed me to be 195 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 7: exposed to. However, I will say that I believe wholeheartedly 196 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 7: that I am the woman in ministry that my mother 197 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 7: did not have permission to be. 198 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 10: That's deep. I'm glad I've got on boots. 199 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 7: When people talk about the things that they like about 200 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 7: me or love about me, they are all the things 201 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 7: that I attribute to my mother's presence in my life. 202 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 7: My mother was a woman at a different time, in 203 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 7: a different error, and women in ministry looked a lot 204 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 7: different when she was coming up, and my mother's ability 205 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 7: to give me permission to be who I was was 206 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 7: a seed that made me want to give other women 207 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,839 Speaker 7: permission to be who they are. And so as much 208 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 7: as I love that people see that connection between me 209 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 7: and my father, part of the reason why I even 210 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 7: wanted her on here is because she is the secret 211 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 7: sauce of who I am, and I feel like my 212 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:44,839 Speaker 7: legacy is to make sure that my mother is remembered. 213 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,559 Speaker 7: My legacy is to make sure that who she is 214 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 7: lives on in the earth. I've got her mother's obituary 215 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 7: in my office. My kids know about my granny. My 216 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 7: granny died when I was seven years old, and my 217 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 7: kids know about her smelling like cherry almond lotion and 218 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 7: making sure that we are all moisturized than fed, because 219 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 7: I just feel like she's too significant to be in 220 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 7: anyone's shadow. And I think every time the light is 221 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 7: on me, it's on us because I got to be 222 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 7: who she wasn't able to be at the time, and 223 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 7: I just I love that this is an opportunity for 224 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 7: me to share who she is with the world, because 225 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 7: I just who I am is just directly connected. 226 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 6: To who she is. 227 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: Directly coming up, Jamel Hill reminds us strength doesn't mean 228 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 2: carrying it all. Don't forget to subscribe and share so 229 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 2: you don't miss an episode. 230 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 11: Now back to my legacy. 231 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 5: One of the things you said in the past, Jamail, 232 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 5: is that Ian has allowed you to take your cape off. 233 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 5: And I love that. I think there's so many women 234 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 5: in general, and Black women in particular, I feel as 235 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 5: if we have to be so strong for everyone and 236 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 5: everything and to have a soft space. And it also 237 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 5: ties into when you introduce him, you use the word vulnerable, 238 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 5: that he allows you to be vulnerable. Can you just 239 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,959 Speaker 5: talk a little bit and share with our listeners and 240 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,599 Speaker 5: unfold what that means to you. 241 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I think you're exactly right that you know 242 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: because strength and black women have become synonymous, and that's 243 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: not necessarily a bad thing, but it can be a 244 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: crippling thing in the sense that we assume that we 245 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: always have to wear this cape, and that if we're 246 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: not always the model of strength, then we're somehow being imperfect. 247 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: And while it's true that we certainly have to have 248 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: our armor on, we certainly have to be ready for 249 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: all the things that are coming at us. We also 250 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: don't want to fall into the trap of always thinking 251 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: that we have to be somebody else's savior, because sometimes 252 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: the person that needs the most saving is us. And 253 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: probably the best thing that we can do for ourselves 254 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: is fine people a community places where we don't always 255 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: have to be the one that comes up with the solution, 256 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: always have to be the one who sacrifices always had 257 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: you know, we don't have to constantly put ourselves in 258 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: that mode. I mean, listen, we say what kind of 259 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: we save the democracy is like at some point, like 260 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: we have to really save ourselves. And what I loved 261 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: about our relationship is like, my husband's a great communicator, 262 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: and even though I might be in media, while I 263 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 1: can certainly communicate, I think it has always been difficult 264 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: for me to communicate vulnerability for me to be comfortable 265 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: in that soft place and just organically and naturally. It 266 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: was never a conversation that we had, but it was 267 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: through action and through communication that it was really easy 268 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: for me to see that this was some place that 269 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: I didn't have to always feel like I had to 270 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: be the strong one. But when you have trust in 271 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: your partner, it's easy to be vulnerable. And so because 272 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: I have such trust in him, it's easy for me 273 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: to do that. 274 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 5: So was it hard then for you to find that place? 275 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 5: Because I think for so many women and we love 276 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 5: being strong. It really is who we are. But to 277 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 5: have that dance of also being vulnerable, you know again 278 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:22,840 Speaker 5: like you know, we're out in the world, always say that, 279 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 5: you know, we've shown up for this country and now 280 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 5: it's also time for the country to show up for us. 281 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 5: And so for you to find that space also of 282 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 5: being vulnerable, to have a place to fall into. Was 283 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 5: that scary for you at first? 284 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 8: Oh, it's terrifying. 285 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: You know, nobody goes willingly like you know, I don't 286 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: want to make it seem like, you know, vulnerability knocked 287 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: on the door, and I was like Hi, I'm ready, 288 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: Like no, it was. It was a process, as it 289 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: is for a lot of women, especially if you, you know, independent, 290 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 1: been used to doing everything on your own and used 291 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: to being your own savior, like it's hard to sometimes 292 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: relinquish some of that. So then to me, the responsibility 293 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: was on me to start to open up and to 294 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:14,439 Speaker 1: share that and to be more vulnerable with him, because 295 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: he had shown me that he was more than capable 296 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: of being the soft place, the landing, the place where 297 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: I would feel that. 298 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 8: Sense of comfort and peace. 299 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,880 Speaker 1: It was then on me to take my armor off, 300 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: to take off, you know, my battle gear, and be 301 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: that person with him. 302 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 11: Well, Jamel, I love how you described the impact the 303 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 11: relationship has on you, and if I could shift it 304 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 11: back to you Ian, you know, if I could ask 305 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 11: what have you experienced being in that relationship with Jamel 306 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 11: and how has it changed how you show up in 307 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 11: a relationship. 308 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 12: Well, being with the woman who's strongest Jamail, I was 309 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 12: never intimidated by it. It was actually something that I cherish, 310 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,720 Speaker 12: you know, just having a strong woman and being therefore 311 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 12: and there was a wall that was up, you know, 312 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 12: initially when we met, but by trade I'm a salesperson, 313 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 12: so I ask a lot of questions and the questions 314 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 12: were genuine. It was organic, you know. I wanted to 315 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 12: know about her and you know, the different experiences that 316 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,879 Speaker 12: she had in her life and learning from her. And 317 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 12: it was funny because I remember asking questions to her 318 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 12: mom and she's like, why are you asking so many questions? 319 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 12: And it's like, I just want to know. I'm just curious, 320 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 12: you know, I want to know. Jamel. 321 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share, 322 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 2: and follow us on at my Legacy Movement on social 323 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 2: media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus 324 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,200 Speaker 2: content every Thursday. At its core. This podcast honors doctor 325 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 2: King's vision of the beloved community and the power of connection. 326 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 2: A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and 327 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 2: executive producer Suzanne Hayward co executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen 328 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.