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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane

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Speaker 1: Never Told You production of I Heeart Radio. Today we

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Speaker 1: have a real throwback. We have a real throwback because

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Speaker 1: this was before you came on Samantha before me, before

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Speaker 1: Times of Samantha. But our good friend and frequent contributor

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Speaker 1: Eves of the Female First Series and many other things

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Speaker 1: came on and she talked to me about in visible

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Speaker 1: illness and it was a very good conversation and it

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Speaker 1: was a very thought provoking conversation. It was also one

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Speaker 1: in which I learned a lot that I did not know. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And because it is Disability Pride Month, we thought we

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Speaker 1: would bring this one back. Yes, so please enjoy. We

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Speaker 1: should like pluster that on our walls. Yes, everything, everyone's

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Speaker 1: got something. Hello, and welcome to stuff I've Never told You.

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Speaker 1: I'm Annie Reese and today I am joined by guest

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Speaker 1: co host Eves Jeff Coke. You might have heard Eves

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Speaker 1: on Afro Punk, which is a great podcast. If you

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Speaker 1: haven't checked it out already, you totally should. Or on

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Speaker 1: Stuff of Life, also an amazing podcast that is not

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Speaker 1: doing new episodes anymore, but you can go and find

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Speaker 1: the old archive and check that out. And Eves and

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Speaker 1: I we have worked together for a while, and we've

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Speaker 1: been trying to make this happen for a while, trying

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Speaker 1: to get on the same get on the same podcast. Hi, Eves,

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Speaker 1: are so excited to have you. We've been trying to

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Speaker 1: have you on the show for a long time. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited to finally be here. Yes, Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been. I've been hanging around, creeping and lurking around

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Speaker 1: for a while, just looking at the podcast, looking in

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Speaker 1: the window, just like, Hey, when you gonna let me in?

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Speaker 1: When you going in your head rise ups. Yeah, We've

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Speaker 1: We've been trying for a while, and scheduling is always

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Speaker 1: an interesting thing with so many busy people in our office.

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Speaker 1: But we are thrilled to have you here today. And um,

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Speaker 1: you pitched me a topic that I honestly didn't know

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Speaker 1: much about. What we're talking about today? Do you want

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Speaker 1: to talk about what we're talking about and why you

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Speaker 1: want to talk about it? Yeah? So what I want

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Speaker 1: you to talk about today. What we are going to

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Speaker 1: talk about today is working women and invisible illnesses, which

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Speaker 1: is a long and very specific thing because it comes

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Speaker 1: at the intersection of many different issues, I think. But

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Speaker 1: I guess the reason that I'll wanted to talk about

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Speaker 1: it is because we really touch on a lot of

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Speaker 1: these issues, Like we talk about people with disabilities, we

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Speaker 1: talk about women's issues, we talk about illness, chronic illness, um.

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Speaker 1: But I think framing it through a feminist lens and

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Speaker 1: really amplifying the fact that there are specific issues that

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Speaker 1: women with chronic illnesses and invisible disabilities face, um when

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Speaker 1: they're in the workplace. And also there are just a

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Speaker 1: ton of people who who have chronic illnesses that you

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Speaker 1: don't know about and you would never know about. And

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Speaker 1: I think people think about disability and a really in

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Speaker 1: a way where they there's a default person that they

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Speaker 1: think about when they think about disability, and that's just

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Speaker 1: not the case. So I think it's just great too

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Speaker 1: to really bring that to light. Yeah, I'm I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad that you pitched this because, like I said, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know too much about it, and it it is

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Speaker 1: something that I don't think we talked about at all

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Speaker 1: when we did the episode with Annie Cigara on our

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Speaker 1: episode about overcoming disability and kind of the problematic phrase

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Speaker 1: that that is, we got a lot of response back

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Speaker 1: to it a lot of stories and personal anecdotes, and

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Speaker 1: I was telling you I learned a lot from that

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Speaker 1: episode as well, and it shocked me how people feel

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Speaker 1: comfortable coming up two people with disabilities and pointing out

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Speaker 1: although you were using that wheelchairs a moment ago, right,

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Speaker 1: So I guess you're you're faking or just always questioning ridiculous. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the thing about it too is that you

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Speaker 1: know and thinking about not being educated on it, Like

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Speaker 1: that's really easy because people have such a range of disabilities.

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Speaker 1: There are so many different things that people are dealing

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Speaker 1: with when it comes to conditions, so you can't really

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Speaker 1: know everything. Like we're going to be continually learning about

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Speaker 1: how people deal with their issue use and how they

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Speaker 1: face their own issues and how they want to talk

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Speaker 1: about it themselves, which is you know, the most important

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Speaker 1: thing um to listen to the people who are actually

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Speaker 1: going these things. But I think also we're in a

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Speaker 1: really you and I are in a really interesting position

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Speaker 1: because we we're in the workplace right now, so this

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Speaker 1: is kind of meta, Like, you know, we're able to

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Speaker 1: be in our workplace and talk about this kind of thing,

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Speaker 1: and at the same time we're saying these things are

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Speaker 1: not talked about in the workplace enough. I think that

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Speaker 1: applies in our case as well, Like we don't talk

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Speaker 1: about it enough here, yet we're here right now talking

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Speaker 1: about it, which I think is a good thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I completely agree. And it does tie into a lot

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Speaker 1: of topics that we've discussed before. UM, emotional labor is

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Speaker 1: a big one, and you turned me on to this. Um,

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Speaker 1: these badges. Please offer me a seat badges. I've never

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Speaker 1: heard of that or seen that before, but it's it's

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Speaker 1: a badge that you would wear it. I would say,

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Speaker 1: probably really helpful on public transportation, and it's just a

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Speaker 1: way of indicating that maybe you can't see what I'm

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Speaker 1: dealing with, but I could really use a seat, right.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's just a really good example

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Speaker 1: of how people deal with their illnesses and a very

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Speaker 1: everyday thing, because I think these badges were in London

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Speaker 1: is where they were instituted, And you don't have to

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Speaker 1: pronounce your illness when you sign up to get the

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Speaker 1: badge or anything like that, so there's nothing like that

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Speaker 1: that's required of a person to get it. And they

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Speaker 1: have these guidelines on how other people should be treated

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Speaker 1: when they're on public transportation. But um, yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: really good example of how people face these things like

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Speaker 1: every day in moments where it may be very comfortable

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Speaker 1: for you if you're a person who's not affected by

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Speaker 1: your disabilities, or you don't have any disabilities that would

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Speaker 1: disrupt the way that you take public transportation. It's it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a moment where you can say, oh, like,

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Speaker 1: there are people who have different lives than I do, um,

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Speaker 1: and maybe they're not in a wheelchair and they don't

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Speaker 1: need to say or maybe they're not elderly um and

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Speaker 1: need to sit. But there may be another reason that

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Speaker 1: a person should really have a seat to make the

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Speaker 1: experience of commuting from one place to another, which is

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Speaker 1: such a thing that you should find comfort in, Like

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Speaker 1: you can't. We're in Atlanta, so can be oh yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I guess the thing about this topic is that

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Speaker 1: there are so many there's like it's like a nesting dolly.

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Speaker 1: So there's this large category of like people with disabilities,

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Speaker 1: and then there's women with disabilities, and then there's women

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Speaker 1: with disabilities in the workplace, and it is this like

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Speaker 1: intersection of identity. So there's like this multiple discrimination that's

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Speaker 1: going on there. So in thinking about women with disabilities

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Speaker 1: in the workplace, you can break it down even further

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Speaker 1: than that to women of color with disabilities in the

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Speaker 1: workplace and queer woman with disabilities in the workplace, And

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Speaker 1: so beyond the sexism and the misogyny and the able

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Speaker 1: ism that may happen in the workplace because of those identities,

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Speaker 1: you can also have a racism that happens as a

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Speaker 1: part of it. Um. So, yeah, there are a ton

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Speaker 1: of challenges, and I know that we won't be able

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Speaker 1: to touch all of them. That would be exhaustive. So yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: I guess the first thing I think of when I

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Speaker 1: think of invisible illness, um is the term itself. So obviously,

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Speaker 1: like words, should be something that we're thinking of all

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Speaker 1: the time when it comes to issues like this, and

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Speaker 1: it's something that changes all the time. So an invisible

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Speaker 1: illness or disability specifically, it's something that's a physical, a mental,

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Speaker 1: or neurological condition that limits a person's movement, senses, or activities.

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Speaker 1: And it's one that's invisible, which means that can't see

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Speaker 1: it right off the bat, and and like clearly that's

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Speaker 1: not something that a person with an invisible quote unquote

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Speaker 1: illness or disability would feel themselves because they're the ones

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Speaker 1: who are going through it. So it's something that is

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a power dynamic because it's really from

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Speaker 1: the perspective of the person who doesn't have the disability

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Speaker 1: or illness. Yeah, I'm glad you you brought that up,

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Speaker 1: because it is important that we think about words. I've

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Speaker 1: I love words. I just had a conversation about this,

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Speaker 1: like literally an hour ago about we should really re

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Speaker 1: examine a lot of words in our language and where

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Speaker 1: they come from because the past can be offensive. So

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate that you you brought that up. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I am guilty. You know, I have to check

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Speaker 1: myself sometimes because you and I talked about yesterday, how

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Speaker 1: something that I realized I say, it's like, oh, there's

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Speaker 1: a blind spot. Yeah, we're just like okay, there whereas

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Speaker 1: are important and there's just arrange when it comes to

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Speaker 1: like how much a disability affects a person and how

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Speaker 1: it affects their performance and their day to day activities.

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Speaker 1: So I think the most important thing is not to assume.

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Speaker 1: But I would say not to assume in the direction

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Speaker 1: where it's like don't assume that they are not disabled.

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Speaker 1: But I think it's more so okay to assume that

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Speaker 1: a person does have a disability, because just the sheer numbers,

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Speaker 1: like a large percentage of people in the world have disabilities. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: According to the CDC, twenty seven million women in the

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Speaker 1: US have disabilities, and among women Native Americans and African Americans,

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Speaker 1: they have the highest percentage of those of those disabilities. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, obviously a lot of those people also

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Speaker 1: are in the workplace. So we're going when we're in

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Speaker 1: the workplace, we're going to need to address these issues

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Speaker 1: to make a more equitable workplace, in a workplace that's

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Speaker 1: safer for everybody. Yeah, because isn't that ideal? Isn't that

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Speaker 1: what we want? Yeah? And I'll also add that the

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Speaker 1: notion itself of invisible disability can be a little problematic

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Speaker 1: because it operates like under this assumption that the disabled

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Speaker 1: body has to be like hyper visible, like you have

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Speaker 1: to be you have to have disabled on your forehead

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Speaker 1: and read letters or something like that. And it's the

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Speaker 1: responsibility of people with disabilities to declare themselves as such,

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Speaker 1: which is not the case. Um that burden shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: on people with disabilities, and it's kind of like this

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Speaker 1: thing where people with invisible disabilities are like twice removed

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Speaker 1: because they're outside of this norm that is already outside

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Speaker 1: of a norm, like people's disabilities are already mothered. I

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Speaker 1: will say, using the term invisible illness is still important

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Speaker 1: because it's still something that's not addressed enough and it's

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Speaker 1: not talked about enough, So it's kind of necessary to

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Speaker 1: still use it so we remember and recognize and acknowledge

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Speaker 1: the fact that there are people who have disabilities that

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Speaker 1: we necessarily wouldn't assume based on our perceived notions of

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Speaker 1: what a yeah, personal disabilities should look like. Yeah, and um,

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Speaker 1: like you're saying, don't assume. And I remember when I

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Speaker 1: first went to when I went to college, and I

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Speaker 1: had all these new friends and we were learning about

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Speaker 1: each other, and I just it was constantly falling into

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Speaker 1: that trap of comparing myself to my friends, right, and

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Speaker 1: they're what I saw is perfect life, and I in

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Speaker 1: every instance it was one of the best life lessons

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Speaker 1: I ever got. I would learn that they were dealing

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Speaker 1: with all of this stuff that I didn't know about.

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Speaker 1: And everyone's got something, right, Oh, I I think that's

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Speaker 1: a great thing to keep in mind. Yeah, we should

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Speaker 1: like plaster that on our walls. Yes, everything everyone's got

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Speaker 1: something and then underneath is my other thing. Something always

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Speaker 1: comes up because it does, it's true, right, Um. And

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Speaker 1: if we're talking about invisible disabilities, some some examples are

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Speaker 1: things like chronic pain or fatigue, HIV, endometriosis, epilepsy, narcolepsy, PTSD,

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Speaker 1: irritable bowel syndrome, being deaf, are hard of hearing, and

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Speaker 1: lyme disease. And fifty four million women have multiple chronic conditions,

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Speaker 1: many of which would not be considered disabilities because they

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Speaker 1: don't impair day to day activities. But that's a lot

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Speaker 1: of women dealing with in illnesses and chronic conditions every day.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of those women, yes, are in the workplace. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And even though we are super familiar with all of

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Speaker 1: those things you just name, and we can name a

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Speaker 1: ton more illnesses to that really affect people and you

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Speaker 1: might not necessarily see it. Um, there's not much data

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Speaker 1: on how women in the workplace who have disabilities are affected.

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Speaker 1: And it's like that intersection is it just doesn't exist.

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Speaker 1: It's even when you break it down further like trans women.

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Speaker 1: It's just it's not a ton of it out there.

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Speaker 1: And to add to that, it's like women are left

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Speaker 1: out of the policies and legislation that have to do

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Speaker 1: with disabilities. Like there maybe there's it on women that

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Speaker 1: are included in these in laws, and there's also data

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Speaker 1: on disabilities and it's included in laws. But just kind

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Speaker 1: of thinking about the two together is it's not super common.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, women with disabilities are all so

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Speaker 1: often left out of the mainstream disability and women's movements.

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Speaker 1: So it's just this a challenge, um to dig up stuff. One. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: women with invisible illnesses in the workplace. Yeah, I found

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Speaker 1: some estimates up to of illnesses are invisible. And I've

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Speaker 1: talked before on this show about, um, some of the

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Speaker 1: things I'm dealing with, I actually didn't know that they

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Speaker 1: qualified until I started doing the research. Yep, that's the point. Yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: I've been told by one more than one person that

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Speaker 1: my greatest skill is acting like everything's okay. I'm very

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Speaker 1: ill about that. Where you were you upset that they

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Speaker 1: said that to you? Or are you like, you're probably right?

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Speaker 1: I was kind of It was one of those weird

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Speaker 1: things where it almost felt like a loss, like I

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Speaker 1: had been pretending so well and for them to realize like,

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Speaker 1: oh no, you are dealing with these other things. And

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Speaker 1: that's something we're going to talk about too, is the

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Speaker 1: feeling that we've set up and shown time and time

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Speaker 1: again in our media, in our society of failure. I

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Speaker 1: think are being weak, which I have definitely felt. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I have a few and one I've talked about

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Speaker 1: um chronic PTSD on here. I have migraines UM, which

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Speaker 1: I again I didn't know, chronic fatigue one super bad ear,

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Speaker 1: and an eating disorder that comes it like comes and goes.

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Speaker 1: But I feel ashamed when I tell someone I have them, honestly,

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Speaker 1: and I feel like, um, they won't believe me that,

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Speaker 1: They'll think I'm weaker, a faker. And I've more than

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Speaker 1: once wished I had some kind of card I could

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Speaker 1: just show someone from a doctor that says, yes, right,

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Speaker 1: she's she needs to legitimize what you're saying, right, And um,

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Speaker 1: I've had on the other side of that, I've had

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Speaker 1: a doctor tell me, well, you can't be in that

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Speaker 1: much pain because your face is totally fine, or once

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Speaker 1: you're laughing, but I feel like I've been socialized not

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Speaker 1: to show weakness. Also, I laughed generally, and it's like

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Speaker 1: my response to pain. It's a weird thing, but some

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Speaker 1: people do that. I want to say, that's weird. It's

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Speaker 1: probably more common than you're making it to be, right now,

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Speaker 1: I think so, I think that's pretty Like it's like

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Speaker 1: when you're scared and you laugh after just a reaction.

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Speaker 1: And then on the other other side of the coin,

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Speaker 1: I've had a doctor tell me to quit being such

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Speaker 1: a baby when I did display sense of distress. What's

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Speaker 1: wrong with being a baby? First of all, I like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you don't like babies. I should have turned it around

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Speaker 1: on it. I like that. I'm going to remember that

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Speaker 1: um in my house I've talked about before tears very much,

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Speaker 1: one where you did not complain or wine. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that story that we see that we talked about

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Speaker 1: in our other episode around disability the failure of not

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Speaker 1: getting better, because that scene is like success, right, but

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Speaker 1: that is a problematic, very problematic arc in a way

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Speaker 1: to look at things. But it's also just damaging and incorrect,

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Speaker 1: like you're not going to it better and better or

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Speaker 1: like get through it. Like I feel like, that's something

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Speaker 1: a lot of people say when you tell people that

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Speaker 1: you have a condition, like, oh, you'll get through it,

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Speaker 1: you'll get better, And I can get that, Like how

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Speaker 1: that's reassuring, But also the reality is stuff is chronic

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Speaker 1: a lot of the times, and you just have to

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Speaker 1: live your life as you see fit while dealing with

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Speaker 1: the issue. Yeah. And I've definitely seen when I've told

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Speaker 1: people before in the workplace that immediately like what does

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Speaker 1: this mean for me? Look? And then the sort of

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Speaker 1: implication like aren't you gonna get past it? When is

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Speaker 1: the end date for this? How long am I going

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Speaker 1: to have to put up with him? And they're always

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Speaker 1: so worried about time. I like how you said that.

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Speaker 1: That makes it sound like you're you're like a goddess.

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Speaker 1: Oh you mortals, You're foolish time constructs. I think I've

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Speaker 1: revealed too much about myself. Yeah, I'm very es um. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And to be clear, having a disability is an obstacle

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Speaker 1: to getting work in the first place, right, Yeah, about

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Speaker 1: eight and tim people with disabilities in US don't have jobs,

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Speaker 1: even though if they desire to have jobs. And even then,

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Speaker 1: men with disabilities are more likely to have a job

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Speaker 1: than women with disabilities, which likely contributes to higher poverty

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Speaker 1: rights and women with disabilities and disability and poverty are like,

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Speaker 1: there's correlation there. In general and globally, unemployment rights have

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Speaker 1: the highest among women with disabilities. The un even estimates

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Speaker 1: that seventy of women with disabilities are unemployed, and women

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Speaker 1: with disabilities who are employed often earned less than men

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Speaker 1: and women without disabilities. And once women with disabilities do

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Speaker 1: have jobs, they face stuff like pay gaps, unequal hiring

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Speaker 1: and promotion standards, and you know all the systemic issues

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Speaker 1: that go along with having more than one marginal identity. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all of those things. According to HILDA, which is the

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Speaker 1: Household Income and Labor Dynamics Australia Data UM, nearly half

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Speaker 1: of women dealing with chronic illness do not have access

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Speaker 1: to paid holiday leave, compared to thirty seven percent of men.

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Speaker 1: About one third of women with chronic illness SURVEID indicated

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Speaker 1: they wanted to work more hours, which seems to suggest

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Speaker 1: that flexible schedules around their illness are hard to come by.

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Speaker 1: The article also talked about the socially acceptable role of

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Speaker 1: a sick person and the manager's desire to do the

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Speaker 1: quote right thing by offering only a lighter so annoying, yes,

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Speaker 1: heavy sci in d assumptions, assumptions, quit doing it. Women

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Speaker 1: with chronic illness also expressed dissatisfaction with advancement opportunities and

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Speaker 1: reported feelings that they were not taken seriously when it

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Speaker 1: came to promotions. They were also more likely to be

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Speaker 1: underpaid a ton of crappy stuff, yeah right, um, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of services for people with disabilities, like we

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Speaker 1: have to remember we're made with white men in mind,

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Speaker 1: like thinking about the term disability in the first place.

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Speaker 1: That's something that's really centered around law. Um. And they

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Speaker 1: only accommodate those with physical invisible disabilities, not as if

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Speaker 1: people with visible disabilities aren't also important to including, but

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Speaker 1: really focusing on that, whereas illnesses and disabilities associated with

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Speaker 1: women have a lot of the time been written off

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Speaker 1: as trivial and self inflicted. Yeah right, hysterics, yes, you know,

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Speaker 1: the hysterics. And then so the need is to raise

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Speaker 1: the voices of those who are affective about illnesses and

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Speaker 1: disabilities that we can't see, and for more equitable and

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Speaker 1: safe workplaces that recognize and adjust the needs of women

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Speaker 1: with invisible conditions. Um, there's this book called Women with

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Speaker 1: Visible and Invisible Disabilities that really um centers the experience

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Speaker 1: of women that have disabilities. Several years old at this point,

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Speaker 1: but there was a for is that. I really like

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Speaker 1: the way they put which is that in a healthy,

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Speaker 1: supportive society, barriers are removed and opportunities for all people

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Speaker 1: are provided without question, and like that's that's obvious, but

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Speaker 1: it's just like that's really important to highlight because it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: people have experiences that you don't know about and you've

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Speaker 1: never had, and they also deserve to work in an

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Speaker 1: environment that is supportive to them. So the barriers that

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Speaker 1: are created against women with invisible illnesses when it comes

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Speaker 1: to employment only served to maintain this cast system we

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Speaker 1: have set up. Yeah, and I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: it has to do with a and we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: about this a little later, um, A lack of empathy

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Speaker 1: and an unwillingness to think about any experience outside of

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Speaker 1: your own. Yeah. Um, we need to talk about empathy more,

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Speaker 1: and we need to talk about it more and not

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Speaker 1: framing it as this thing that's like you should keep

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Speaker 1: the hush hush, like it's okay that for us to

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Speaker 1: talk about things like that, you know what I mean. Um,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to call out a couple of anecdotes

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Speaker 1: that people have had because I feel like it's really

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Speaker 1: important to know that people are dealing, especially since there's

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Speaker 1: not that much data out there on the subject, that

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Speaker 1: people deal with this in real life, and we should

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Speaker 1: listen to people. It's not always about data, the experiences

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Speaker 1: that people themselves have. It's very important as well. So

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Speaker 1: there was one MPR article from that told the story

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Speaker 1: of a woman named Carly Matosh Are Carly Meadosh I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure how to pronounce that one. Hey, Carly Um

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Speaker 1: who's had Crohn's disease since she was thirteen and had

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Speaker 1: recently been diagnosed with fabri on milegia. And that's something

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Speaker 1: that could be considered a visible illness. And we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about fabri miles a little bit later too, because it

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Speaker 1: is a women's illness, but there it has a lot

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Speaker 1: of symptoms like fatigue, um and chronic pain that go

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Speaker 1: along with it, and a lot of people debate over

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Speaker 1: whether it's legitis, medical legitimacy essentially right, um, So, she

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Speaker 1: said she would sometimes lay on the bathroom for thinking,

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Speaker 1: am I going to die? Should I jump out in

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Speaker 1: front of traffic so that I can die? And she

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Speaker 1: said that everyday task are difficult for her, even though

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Speaker 1: nobody would be able to tell from the outside looking

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Speaker 1: in um She's had people judge her first off, like

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Speaker 1: using a handicapped parking tag, and has had trouble getting

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Speaker 1: accommodations from a potential employer of the story set. Another

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Speaker 1: example is from the book Invisible, when Michelle lent her

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Speaker 1: She talks about how she told her boss at a

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Speaker 1: publication she was diagnosed with cancer, and her boss had

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Speaker 1: confronted her, demanding to know why she missed her second

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Speaker 1: day of work, because yes, she found this out on

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Speaker 1: her first day of work. She disguised as she felt

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Speaker 1: like she was stammering in the face of zero empathy,

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Speaker 1: and apologized for the timing of the disclosure. In response,

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Speaker 1: her boss told her that she needed to be there

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Speaker 1: working in the more and to quote, leave her cancer

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Speaker 1: at the door, and there was no HR department or

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Speaker 1: person at that magazine for hersh to turn to, which

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Speaker 1: is a thing for a lot of people. Unlike us,

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Speaker 1: we have a HR department that we can turn to,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of people have HR, don't have HR

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Speaker 1: departments at all, or the ones that they do are

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Speaker 1: ineffective or are problem They're the ones who say things

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Speaker 1: like leave your cancer at the door. Yeah, yeah, I

415
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,439
Speaker 1: know personally, um so from people it's not trying to

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Speaker 1: make this yeah, um so. I feel like there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of people who have been in situations like

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Speaker 1: the author, like Michelle and Hirsch have been in as well. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And one thing before we move on to the next example,

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Speaker 1: I wanted to include that she touched on in her

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Speaker 1: book a little bit is the strain it puts on relationships.

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Speaker 1: Um From her book quote, the woman gets a certain

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Speaker 1: type of health issue, the marriage maybe six to ten

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Speaker 1: times more likely to end divorce. And she uses the

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Speaker 1: example of new Gingrich who has left two wives with illness,

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Speaker 1: one with cancer, one with him mess And I in

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Speaker 1: my personal experience, I've only reached the point of telling

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Speaker 1: someone in a relationship once about what I was dealing with,

429
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: and I remember distinctly feeling like I was giving him

430
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,680
Speaker 1: a weapon to hurt me with. It was a very

431
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: scary feeling, and I suppose that's what vulnerability is in general.

432
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: And I felt like I was giving up a card,

433
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: and if we ever broke up or even like state

434
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: in the relationship that it could be weaponized against me.

435
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: And the the work of hiding it from someone you

436
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: spent so much of your time with it was exhausting

437
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 1: and it hurt our relationship, and it was definitely one

438
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: of the reasons our relationship ended. So I think that's

439
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 1: another thing to talk about too, is I remember, I've

440
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: gotten very in my dating life. I've become very um

441
00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:00,959
Speaker 1: first date, Look, I'm not looking for this. And I

442
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 1: remember when I first started dating this person, I told

443
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: him in the beginning, there are things that that you

444
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: don't know and that I really struggle with, and they're

445
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: going to impact our relationship. And he was so optimistic

446
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: about it. And I don't blame him for it, but

447
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: there was that sense of we'll get past it, we'll

448
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: get over it, and I was just in the back

449
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 1: of my head thinking kind of cynically, no, we won't. Yeah,

450
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 1: I don't know why. When you said you you tell

451
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: a person that this is how it is, I just

452
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 1: imagine you, like smoking a cigarette, like listening here, like

453
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: I kind of love it. Honestly, this one guy, a

454
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, he definitely was not expecting that. Um,

455
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 1: But I think it's good to get it out here.

456
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 1: Not that I am in any rush for any kind

457
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: of thing, but I find that people around my age are,

458
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 1: and I just don't want to waste any one's time.

459
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: You know, I fail you. But moving on from my

460
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: own personal terrible dating skill, you have another example, yeah,

461
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: I do so. In the book Women and Disabilities that

462
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, there is an example of a woman

463
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: named Caroline Humphrey, and they said she was a really

464
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 1: great employee, but that she had a history of tardiness

465
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: and absentee is um because she had grooming and dressing

466
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: rituals that took a really long time, sometimes all day,

467
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: and she was a medic culture transcriber, and she suited

468
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: the hospital that fired her, claiming that the obsessive trade

469
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: that drove her to have these really long preparation tims,

470
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: she wasn't accommodated for it as was required and is

471
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: required under the A d A, which is the Americans

472
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,240
Speaker 1: with Disabilities Act, which will get into a little bit

473
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: more later, And a federal judge threw that out of court,

474
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 1: but then a three judge panel of the nine US

475
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: Circuit Courts of Appeals decided in two thousand one that

476
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: she had a good point, and they sent our case

477
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: back to trial. It kind of reminds me of I

478
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 1: can't believe I'm bringing this up in Scrubs for some reason.

479
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: I've been making a lot of references to Scrubs lately,

480
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: and I'm kind of surprised by it. There's an episode

481
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,479
Speaker 1: where one of the doctors I think he's a guest

482
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: rotating doctor played by Michael J. Fox, had obsessive compulsive disorder,

483
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: and it just I think at the end, it was

484
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: a very poignant moment where it showed how all of

485
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: these hoops he was going through and all the time

486
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: he was having to a lot to kind of he

487
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 1: wasn't hiding it, but he was trying to make it

488
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: not impact anyone else. You trying to manage it, yeah,

489
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: based on other people's expectations, yes, yes, and just seeing

490
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: his frustration and paint around that. Um it stuck with

491
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: me clearly because that show has not been on the

492
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: air from that time. I imagine you have a treasure

493
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: trove of like random moments and TV and film in

494
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 1: your head. I do. I do that. That is what

495
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: my brain definitely hung on too, of all the things

496
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: that could have and we have some some stats about

497
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: how workplaces are so terrible at addressing invisible conditions, especially

498
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: for women. At first, we're going to pause for a

499
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back,

500
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. So there was this survey that the

501
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: Working Mother Research Institute did that show their employees are

502
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 1: pretty crappy when it comes to addressing disabilities that they

503
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: can't see as opposed to visible ones. And the study

504
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: was one that broke things down into, oh, this is

505
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: what happens to women with disabilities, and one then with

506
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: invisible illnesses a little bit like there was more that

507
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: you know could have been done when specifically thinking about

508
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: the intersection between women and invisible illnesses. But I found

509
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: that crappiness starts even before someone is highed, like during

510
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 1: the recruiting process. Generally, people with invisibility said they were

511
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: less likely to have accommodations in place when they started

512
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 1: their jobs, and we're more likely to have their requests

513
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: for accommodations rejected than people with visible disabilities, and obviously

514
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: people need accommodations. Um and thirty one of women with

515
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: disabilities reported being told their accommodations weren't necessary versus just

516
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: of men. Yeah, so that's a pretty significant difference. Yeah.

517
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 1: And the survey also found that people with invisible disabilities

518
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: are most frequently turned down on their request for flexible

519
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: work schedules, which you brought up earlier, um, and schedule

520
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: modifications and workspace modifications, things that are in a lot

521
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: of workplaces easy to work with with a person on

522
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: and as compared to people with visible disabilities, people with

523
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: invisible disabilities report being less satisfied on the job, having

524
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: greater difficulty balancing work and personal life demands, and being

525
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: less optimistic about their ability to advance on work, which

526
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: you also brought up earlier. Yeah, and we are focusing

527
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: a lot on the US here, but I do like

528
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: bringing in data from other countries where we can, so

529
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: I think it just captures more of the story. And

530
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: the study I was mentioning earlier showed the same thing

531
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: in Australia. Um. And I want to bring up the

532
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: media because again this whole brain we have started to

533
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: see more honest betrayals of women with invisible illness in

534
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: our media, but for a long time, sick young attractive

535
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: women were treated as a narrative device and a story

536
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: about men learning to really live life, get out there

537
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: and appreciate it, because obviously all things are in service

538
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: to men, right. And I haven't seen most of those movies,

539
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: but I knew exactly what particular genre they were talking

540
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: about when I read read about that. Um And according

541
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: to a report, only two point four of films featured

542
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: a character with disabilities across the board, which is very

543
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: low and unrepresentative. Yeah, yeah, and I would I would

544
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: hazard to guess that a lot of them are inaccurate

545
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: and possibly offensive. Yeah, and I would guess to that

546
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: a lot, Well, a lot has changed when it comes

547
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: to mental illness, Yeah, specifically right, Like that's huge category.

548
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: Obviously there are a lot of things under that umbrella.

549
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: But oh, you can't see it all the time, you know,

550
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: So a lot has changed about the way people per

551
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: tribe mental illness positively, Like, obviously we have a long

552
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: way to go. Yeah, but yeah, so the law do

553
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: you want to get into it? Yeah? The law? Okay,

554
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna um Like, as you were saying, these

555
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: things applied globally, but um, workplaces are very different all

556
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: over the world, and regulation in workplaces are very different

557
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: all over the world and even in the United States.

558
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: So long different industries have different policies. Um, thank god,

559
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 1: we're no longer employing children legally, we've come aways in

560
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: the way that we've we've done things when it comes

561
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: to employment in in the United States. And obviously there's

562
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: stuff like five seven the minimum wage. But one of

563
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: the things that has been good over the past, you know,

564
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 1: a few days case is that is the Americans with

565
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: Disabilities Act. So in two thousand and eight, amendments to

566
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: the a d A brought in the definition of what

567
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: a disability is. So the point of the a d

568
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: A is to prohibit discrimination against people with disabilities and

569
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: ensure that people with disabilities have the same employment opportunities

570
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: as those without disabilities. So it requires employers to provide

571
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: quote reasonable accommodations two people with disabilities. And I know,

572
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 1: like it gets really darkeny sometimes, like you're probably asking

573
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 1: what are reasonable accommodation It sounds like a lot of syllables. Um,

574
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: but then include things like allowing for a self paced workload,

575
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: flexible work hours, modifying job responsibilities, and allowing for leave

576
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: paid and unpaid during periods of hospitalization, assigning and understanding supervisor,

577
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 1: getting to empathy. There a little bit um modifying work

578
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: hours to attend appointments like once with a psychiatrist, providing

579
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 1: easy access to supervision and support in the workplace, and

580
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 1: providing frequent guidance about job performance. So the A D

581
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: A doesn't explicitly use the words invisible conditions, but it

582
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: does still provide protections for people with invisible conditions, as

583
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,240
Speaker 1: it protects people with a quote physical or mental impairment

584
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: that substantially limits one are more major life activities of

585
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: such individual. And I think and thinking about that, and

586
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: like you said, you didn't even know until like you

587
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: read a list that you could be considered into something

588
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: like this. So I think a lot of people don't

589
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: recognize and don't know when they're in the workplace when

590
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: they can be protected because they don't know that they're

591
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: under the protections of the the A D. And there

592
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: are a lot of caveats and different situations, like it

593
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: comes on a case by case basis a lot of

594
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: the time. And but yeah, it's important to know first

595
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: of all, yes I can be protected, and I I

596
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 1: might be protected under the AD. Yeah, it's important. Step one.

597
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: Knowledge is power. I I will also say that, um,

598
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: we are really lucky in our office that we have

599
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: a lot of those things. We have flexible work hours,

600
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,399
Speaker 1: and we have a pretty good work from home policy,

601
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: and that is one of the things I am most

602
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: thankful for at this job. Yeah, and because that's been

603
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: the policy. I don't know what it was like before

604
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: I was here, imagine it was a lot of the same,

605
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: but that's been a policy since I've been here. So

606
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 1: I feel like that's definitely a privilege because a lot

607
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: of the people that's not there, so they have to

608
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: be the one to create that change. Yeah, so the

609
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,280
Speaker 1: burden kind of becomes on the person who the burdens

610
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:42,320
Speaker 1: are already on to to create change within a workplace.

611
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: So yeah, we're definitely lucky. Yeah. I if I went

612
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: to a job after this, I feel like I'm spoiled now.

613
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know what to do. Yeah, I have to

614
00:36:51,680 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: be here from what hours? What it is blocking in exactly. Yeah.

615
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: So the ADA has created a lot of meaningful change

616
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: in society. But just because it exists improvised protections for

617
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people doesn't mean that people with disabilities

618
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: still don't face discrimination. In practice, it's still hard for

619
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: people with invisible disabilities to receive protection from discrimination and

620
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: really feel comfortable disclosing. Um, they are conditioned to their employer.

621
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: So legislation, like you know, things like the ADA is important,

622
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 1: but so is changing the culture around how we treat

623
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,879
Speaker 1: and think about people who have chronic illnesses and disabilities

624
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: in the workplace. Yeah, and that's something that's come up

625
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: several times on the show. Is our conversation around mental

626
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: health is a great example has been. It's been so

627
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: stigmatizing and we just haven't talked about it, and it's

628
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: something at work. You you just kept to yourself. And

629
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 1: I think that is changing. I think it's changing very slowly,

630
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:03,160
Speaker 1: but it is aging. You know, some typic want a revolution.

631
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 1: We can't always get a revolution, right, not always a

632
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:13,480
Speaker 1: good example migraines, which is one again, I've had migraines

633
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 1: since forever and I didn't know that they would fall

634
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 1: under this, and um, they are very painful. And I

635
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: remember the kid when I would get them, people wouldn't

636
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: believe me and they thought he was a kid just

637
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: trying to get out of school. And then you would

638
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: have a kid who is on the floor and vomiting,

639
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: And I would always kind of laugh later because I

640
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: told you he did not believe me. But it is

641
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: a lot more women suffer from migraines than men, at

642
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: least I spoth. The numbers show out of the thirty

643
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: eight million Americans estimated to suffer from migraines, seventy three

644
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: are women. What that is a lot. I have a

645
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: lot of friends, a lot of female friends that suffer

646
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: from migraines, and they can cause visual issues, dizziness, vomiting,

647
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: intense pain, and other serious symptoms when untreated. Migraines can

648
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 1: can make people miss work, oh for sure. And women

649
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 1: may experience migraines more frequently because of hormonal changes. Because

650
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 1: of misperceptions about the severity of migraines and their conflation

651
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: with common headaches, many women face discrimination in the workplace

652
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,240
Speaker 1: when they get migraines. If a woman has to miss

653
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: work or a meeting because of a migraine, and employer

654
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,919
Speaker 1: may assume she is irresponsible, inconsiderate, and unable to plan effectively.

655
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 1: But I'm just telling you straight up, as someone who

656
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,959
Speaker 1: has them, You're you're lucky to be able to move

657
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: like you're you're probably in a dark room, just counting down.

658
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,880
Speaker 1: I always try to fall asleep first. That's my fall asleep.

659
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: What do you mean about fall asleep first? Because I

660
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: get I get like a warning. I know it's coming,

661
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: and so if I can fall asleep before it hits,

662
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: sometime times I'll miss it, okay, but not always. I'm

663
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: horrible at falling asleep anyway. But when I was a kid,

664
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: every now and then that would work. I'd beat asleepover.

665
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: Probably I was seen as so weird, but I'd be like,

666
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: I've got to go bed now. I gotta go to

667
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: bed now. Now nobody knows, right, nobody, nobody knows what

668
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: you do. Um. So, depending on the situation, migraines can

669
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: qualify woman for protection under the A d A. So

670
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 1: for your migraines to qualify as a disability under the ADA,

671
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: you need to show that they're serious enough to limit

672
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: your ability to perform your job or specific job tests

673
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: giving your work environment. And you also have to demonstrate

674
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: to your employer that you're a quote unquote qualified individual

675
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: with the disability. And if you're applying for a job,

676
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: or even if you're an existing employee, you have to

677
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 1: is your responsibility to tell your employer if you need

678
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: an accommodation. So you have to disclose it to your

679
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: employer if you need, in a commendation, and then you

680
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: can follow up with a request in writing that documents

681
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 1: the limitations that you have. That said, like we said earlier,

682
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: like just because the ADA exist doesn't mean things will

683
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: happen in practice. Your employer can still let you go.

684
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 1: They can still fire you even when you're protected under

685
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: the ADA for different reasons um and they can refuse

686
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,880
Speaker 1: your requests for an accommodation as well under certain circumstances.

687
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: So if your request to deny for reasons that weren't

688
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 1: explaining for unknown reasons, you can file what they call

689
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: a discrimination charge with the US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission

690
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: or the e o C, or with their state's enforcement agency.

691
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: So if they dismissed the charge, you can continue on

692
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 1: that process and file a lawsuit. So, like I said earlier,

693
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: like a lot of people don't even know they're protected

694
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: under the ad A in the first place, or don't

695
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: think about it. So that's step one in like trying

696
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 1: to fight any sort of discrimination against women that comes

697
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 1: that has to do with invisible illness UM in the workplace.

698
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 1: And you know that also probably means that a lot

699
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: of people don't know the steps to take. Yeah, you know,

700
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: we're to start, especially they don't have an HR department. Yeah,

701
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: so yeah, I think it's kind of important to just

702
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,720
Speaker 1: get that out there. I agree, And I know that

703
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: this sounds daunting and stressful, but it is something that

704
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: I think it's worth pursuing. It's really we've touched before

705
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 1: on how when you're not believed and you see your

706
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: story like delegitimized and invalidated on on a public stage

707
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,280
Speaker 1: or just with people that you know, how that can

708
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 1: be damaging for you. So I know that it's scary

709
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 1: to get your request approved to pursue the process, but

710
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:58,800
Speaker 1: I do think it's worth at least knowing about Yeah. Yeah,

711
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: And a lot of people who have filed discrimination charges

712
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: with the eo C between two thousand and five and

713
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: two tho did have invisible disabilities UM. So the most

714
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 1: commonly sided conditions and those charges that were filed were

715
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: invisible disabilities, according to the analysis that recharchers did at

716
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 1: Cornell University's Employment and Disability Institute. So there is hope

717
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 1: there's hope. I mean we can call it that. Yeah,

718
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't mean to be cynical. Um, yeah,

719
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: there's there are protections for us are a lot of

720
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: people are using them already, So I hope that gives

721
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:39,319
Speaker 1: people who feel unprotected at work a little bit of

722
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: hope too. Yeah. So on what you were saying just

723
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 1: now about it being daunting. Um, A huge conversation and

724
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: thinking about women invisible illness in the workplace is disclosure. So,

725
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: as I said, you have to disclose, um, your illness

726
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 1: or your disability if you want to be if you

727
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:02,359
Speaker 1: want to receive accommodations in the workplace, and that's not

728
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: an easy task all the time, especially as a woman. Yeah. Um,

729
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: so if they don't, if people don't disclose their disabilities

730
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: at work, it could affect their performance. This is based

731
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: on data, and their colleagues may assume it's a matter

732
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: of that person's competence. So that burden of concealing a

733
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: disability really creates strain and social in work situations that

734
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 1: might negatively affect the health and well being of a person.

735
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 1: And in contrast, that have shown that disclosure relieves the

736
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 1: strain of hiding the condition which we talked about earlier,

737
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: like how much labor that is, and increases the likelihood

738
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 1: that the person will find and develop a social support

739
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:51,240
Speaker 1: network with others who might have similar conditions or experiences. Yeah,

740
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: and I talked about in our episode on on CPTSD

741
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: how having that conversation. I didn't have to strength to

742
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,319
Speaker 1: have that conversation. And I think I'm almost positive that

743
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,720
Speaker 1: my boss at the time would have totally been on board.

744
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 1: She would have been a really great, helpful supportive system

745
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: for me. She would have worked to make things easier

746
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: for me. And looking back, I wish I had had

747
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 1: the strength to do it. I didn't, but I wish

748
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 1: that I had. But that's okay though, you know, like

749
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: a lot of people aren't there yet too people would

750
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,719
Speaker 1: connect with you on that level. Yeah, And I think

751
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: that is something to to keep in mind, is it's

752
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: not easy, and don't be too hard on yourself. If right.

753
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 1: It's kind of like women already have to maintain a

754
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 1: certain image in the workplace of being twice as strong

755
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: and yeah, twice as productive and and having to disclose

756
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: something that makes you quote unquote look weaker in other

757
00:45:55,000 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 1: people's eyes. Um, it's not an easy task because the

758
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: thing is, people with invisible disabilities still don't disclose their conditions,

759
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,800
Speaker 1: especially if they're young and have recently acquired the disability.

760
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: So that's because disclosure still comes with risks and disclosing

761
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: could harm your competitiveness and workplace relationships. So in that

762
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: survey that we talked about earlier, the Working Mother survey

763
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 1: of people with invisible illnesses, said they were comfortable discussing

764
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: their disability with HR or coworkers. So that's a lot

765
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: of people who still don't feel comfortable with it, and

766
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 1: to have that conversation, you know, you have to be

767
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: at a certain point. That's because they still may face

768
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: prejudice or negative judgment for others. Like if you think

769
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: about something like mental illness, Like there's still a lot

770
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: of stigma around mental illness, just thinking about the way

771
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:51,920
Speaker 1: we speak about it, just our lacks language and saying

772
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 1: you know, things terms that really you know, using them

773
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,799
Speaker 1: willy nilly essentially, just we know that general culture around

774
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 1: mental illness isn't accepting. So also disclosure can raise questions

775
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: about whether a disability is quote unquote legitimate. So in

776
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 1: addition to dealing with the stigma that's associated with having

777
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: a disability. People with invisible disabilities risk being viewed as

778
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,400
Speaker 1: someone who's falsely seeking like some sort of like gain

779
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: out of telling people that they have an issue, like

780
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: we want to be pitied or have special treatment. Yeah,

781
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: so other people in the workplace can call them complainers, hypochondriacts,

782
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 1: attention seekers, and which can cause even more distress on

783
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,280
Speaker 1: a person who's already dealing with some sort of condition

784
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 1: or illness in the first place. And even employees with

785
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: disabilities maybe monitored more closely than others or harassed, which

786
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:58,760
Speaker 1: is ridiculous. Absolutely, I I don't understand that urge people

787
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: feel to have you proved to them that you're not

788
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,919
Speaker 1: trying to fake and I don't know, get some kind

789
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,879
Speaker 1: of special treatment that to me doesn't make any sense.

790
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,239
Speaker 1: I feel like in general, people, I really think you

791
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 1: should do a lot of work to to live your life.

792
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 1: Like why I go through it? Why would I go

793
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: through all the trouble of pretending to have a disability

794
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: like I have, I have issues, I already have issues

795
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,640
Speaker 1: I have to deal with. Why would I make this up? Right?

796
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense? And like you were saying, uh,

797
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: something that I found a common thread I found in

798
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: this research is when people disclose, they do feel that

799
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: they have to work harder to show like, see I

800
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,800
Speaker 1: can still do do my work. And and to your point,

801
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: women already have that, so it's like compound double indemnited.

802
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's the right word, yes, but

803
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: I think we all understand you're coming from. So when

804
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: women specifically deal with the symptoms of invisible illnesses at work,

805
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,360
Speaker 1: like frequently being like to work because your O C

806
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: D mean took you longer time to prepare, like we

807
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 1: talked about earlier, or maybe going to the bathroom often,

808
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,319
Speaker 1: or maybe needing something like a text reader, they face

809
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: these gender stereotypes of women being lazy, or being incompetent,

810
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: or being unprofessional, so they may turn to like bias avoidance,

811
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: which is trying to avoid all of those stigmas, so

812
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,160
Speaker 1: they'll just grin and bear it because they're afraid their

813
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: needs will be perceived as weaknesses and they may lose

814
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 1: their jobs. So that's one thing that in the research,

815
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,000
Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of women are afraid of

816
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 1: is losing their jobs, and a lot of job markets

817
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: are precarious, so it makes a lot of sense. Um,

818
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: and the job is probably the thing in the first

819
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,360
Speaker 1: place as able to help them afford treatment for the

820
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 1: condition they get. So just think of all the pressure,

821
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: like just closing puts on a woman because of that,

822
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 1: it feels like this is double ledged work, like you're

823
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: damned if you do when you're damned if you don't. Yeah,

824
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:15,959
Speaker 1: it's it's like a weird never ending the snake eating

825
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 1: the tail. Yes, thank you, thank you, because like you're saying,

826
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 1: when it was all met at the beginning of not

827
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: talking about it in the workplace, but we're talking about

828
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 1: the workplace. It it's we need to have these conversations more.

829
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,319
Speaker 1: But you can't blame people for not having the conversations

830
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: where yeah, it's not the job of the people to

831
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: institute these types of changes in the workplace. Um. So,

832
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: there are a ton of conditions that disproportionately affect young women,

833
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: specifically like autoimmune diseases and millennials, which is like eighteen

834
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: to thirty six at the of this survey. I know

835
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: it changes all the time and different people say different things,

836
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: but I think, specifically and this research are the largest

837
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: generation in the U S workforce. So a lot of

838
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: working women are bound to have disabilities. Yet people still

839
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 1: disbelieve young women who have health issues based on assumptions

840
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:22,200
Speaker 1: that young women should be healthy. So that can really

841
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 1: make disclosure feel kind of like pointless. So even doctors

842
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 1: like you were you brought up earlier, Even doctors disbelieve

843
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: women who say they're sick when they can't see or

844
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: explain issue. So there's a bitch Media article in which

845
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:42,240
Speaker 1: the author, Kate Horowitz, describes going to the doctor after

846
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 1: she felt weak, fatigued, and dizzy and hot with headaches

847
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 1: for a while, and her doctor, a guy, a dude,

848
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: told her she had conversion disorder and that she had

849
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 1: a traumatic event in her childhood that she converred it

850
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: into performing the illness like she was making it up.

851
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:01,280
Speaker 1: So she didn't find out that she had hypermobile Eller's

852
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: downlow syndrome until six years later when she was in

853
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,640
Speaker 1: grad school. And this story, I know a lot of

854
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 1: women have it, but I can totally relate to it

855
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: because I've been through that same situation where a doctor

856
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 1: really discounted something that was real that was going in

857
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: my life. So when I was in college, I went

858
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 1: to the emergency room when I had a panic attack,

859
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: but it was like it happened at the same time

860
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 1: that I really felt like I couldn't breathe, and so

861
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,720
Speaker 1: I was telling the doctor, I feel like I can't breathe,

862
00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: like there's something going on. And after waiting a really

863
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: long time in the e er, which I will break

864
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: from this a bit to say that women spend more

865
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,879
Speaker 1: time than men. They wait more time than men when

866
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: they go to the e r um, which goes for

867
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:54,319
Speaker 1: this goes back to this idea of thinking women's pain

868
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,719
Speaker 1: isn't as serious. But so, yeah, I saw the doctor

869
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: and my mom was are with me, I think, and

870
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 1: the doctor said he after notice, essentially, is anything going

871
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: on in your life right now? It's probably just anxiety.

872
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: Gave me an anti anxiety pill that made me feel

873
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 1: like a marshmallow and just kind of like sent me

874
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: on my way, and I was like, I still feel

875
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: like I can't breathe. Yeah, I was like, maybe that

876
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,040
Speaker 1: was a panic attack, but I still feel like I

877
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: can't breathe. And so it took me going to a

878
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,160
Speaker 1: couple of places and finally coming to this black woman

879
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: doctor who I can't even remember what she gave me,

880
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,439
Speaker 1: but found out that I had some sort of like

881
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:51,239
Speaker 1: swelling or inflammation of the esophagus. So it's like this

882
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 1: is like right online, like with the data, so that

883
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 1: can be treated. Right. So Yeah, it's just it happens

884
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: all the time. Like I'm not the only person that

885
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,759
Speaker 1: this happens to. No. Uh, it's one of the most

886
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: frustrating things to me. We did an episode on doctors

887
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,319
Speaker 1: not believing women, and I think on average it takes

888
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: nine years longer for a woman to get diagnosed. I

889
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: think it was indometrios is specifically, but diagnosis takes longer,

890
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: getting treated in the emergency room takes longer, and women die. Uh,

891
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: the heart diseases the example specifically, they gave um it

892
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: leads to death. The fact that doctors are not taking

893
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: their their pain and their symptoms seriously, right but right, Oh, yeah,

894
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 1: that's a big point. Yeah, it's irreversible. You know, the

895
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 1: damage that a person didn't do by not diagnosing someone earlier. Yeah,

896
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 1: I think of all the years that you've spent needlessly

897
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: in pain or struggling with something in this case. I lately,

898
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:03,800
Speaker 1: I've been struggling with anger outlets for anger, and I

899
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:08,279
Speaker 1: just can't stop thinking about how much we prioritize male

900
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: pleasure success at the expense of female pain, and we

901
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: legitimize one and we lawed one and the other is

902
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: like just shut up right, just go away. Anyway, we're

903
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:26,879
Speaker 1: going off on a slight tangent, but it has been

904
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: something I've been thinking about a lot lately, and it's

905
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 1: it's one of the things that it makes me angry,

906
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: like immediately how quickly we just don't believe or even

907
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: if we like say, oh yeah, I remember once I

908
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: think I've told this story on the show before too.

909
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,480
Speaker 1: I had like these severe headaches where I was passing

910
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,160
Speaker 1: out and they sent me to to a neurologists and

911
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:50,800
Speaker 1: I remember him saying, well, you're just gonna have to

912
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 1: find a way to live with it. So it was like,

913
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: it's acceptable for women to be in pain. I think

914
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,239
Speaker 1: this is sort of like okay, Well, that goes to

915
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 1: the idea that women are supposed to be strong, like

916
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,920
Speaker 1: we have babies, we have a high pain tolerance, and

917
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:12,359
Speaker 1: obviously we can deal with this like we're superhuman. And

918
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 1: that's specifically for about black women. That's the stereotype that

919
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:19,960
Speaker 1: we face, like we're supposed to be superwomen. Were supposed

920
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: to be superheroes. There's myth around us being this magical

921
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 1: and all powerful and able to take on all of

922
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:37,360
Speaker 1: this pain and bear the burden of pain for everyone else. Yeah.

923
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:39,839
Speaker 1: So when we think about far By Mile, just specifically,

924
00:56:40,239 --> 00:56:43,439
Speaker 1: a lot of women really end up what is called

925
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 1: catastrophizing about the condition to really emphasize how serious it is,

926
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: and people with invisible illnesses in general really need to

927
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 1: repeatedly remind others about their impairments because not every day

928
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 1: is the same. Yeah, I I know exactly what that is,

929
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: because again, going back to my migraines, sometimes I wanted

930
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: I wanted it to get worse just so people would

931
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:12,879
Speaker 1: believe me, Like if I vomited then of course, Yeah, yep,

932
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 1: clearly she's not making it up then, But that the

933
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 1: headache part, the invisible part, People very ready to dismiss that.

934
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: So I understand this catastrophe catastrophizing. Yeah, that's an interesting

935
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 1: I've never seen that before. It is it's a mouthful.

936
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 1: And going back to our Painful Sex Women in Pain episode,

937
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: this has come up time and time again the issue

938
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: of not believing women when they're in pain, um, when

939
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: they say they have a disability. It comes down to

940
00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: how women look and how they present or don't present,

941
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 1: and of how the other person is taking that in.

942
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 1: And there's the added emotional labor cost and pressure for folks,

943
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 1: especially women who are often perceived as weaker, to hide

944
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: it or yeah again, to prove that they deserve the job,

945
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: that they're working hard through this there. Yeah, they're real

946
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: go getters. And but don't go too far because then

947
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:12,880
Speaker 1: you're a bitch. Yes, And often women who disclose are

948
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: told to take time off to get well. I saw

949
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: that come up a lot, which isn't gonna happen if

950
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: you have a chronic illness. It's in the name um or.

951
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: They might be accused of, yeah, exaggerating, being a hypochondriac, lazy,

952
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: complain too much and yet and yeah, at the same time,

953
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 1: also are accused of not being a better advocate for themselves.

954
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: People want their cake and to eat it too. Ah

955
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's it's kind of a paradox. If you

956
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 1: don't display emotion, you aren't believed. If you do, your

957
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 1: hysterical So again, there's a lot of tight ropes were

958
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: bringing up here where you can't there's no winning, right,

959
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: and there's this study that really put it used word

960
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 1: that I thought was really appropriate is that disclosure can

961
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,919
Speaker 1: be a sort of dance um for women with fib

962
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 1: A mile just specifically in the workplace, because in reality,

963
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: disclosures like a lot more complicated than just a planned

964
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 1: action that's done to get accommodations. Oftentimes, disclosure is like

965
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:23,080
Speaker 1: improvised and it happens in everyday conversations when somebody needs

966
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 1: something in that moment and risks are taking into consideration

967
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 1: and risk avoidance and risk reduction. So that happened when

968
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 1: women in that study needed to explain, like there there

969
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: are a few instances in which that happened in the

970
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 1: study for the women, and that's when they needed to

971
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: explain their fluctuating workability, when others need it reminding about

972
00:59:45,440 --> 00:59:50,320
Speaker 1: their invisible impairments and when their work relationship changed. So

973
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 1: because they can't control how people respond it to their disclosure,

974
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 1: they controlled whether they divulge the stigma and how much

975
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 1: impairment they revealed and how much they expose themselves to scrutiny.

976
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So there is hoping this as well, um

977
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: that more companies are encouraging people to disclose their disability

978
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 1: we have a little more for all of you listeners,

979
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:20,040
Speaker 1: but first we have one more quick break for word

980
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 1: from our sponsor M and we're back. Thank you sponsor.

981
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 1: So something that really comes up and thinking about this

982
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 1: conversation of invisible illnesses and disabilities in the workplace is

983
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:46,120
Speaker 1: this idea of privilege or passing that like, having an

984
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:52,200
Speaker 1: invisible illness can sometimes function as passing as someone without disabilities.

985
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 1: So some ways of passing can include not disclosing certain

986
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 1: information about yourself, for like avoiding having adaptive and assistive

987
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 1: aids like canes, are walkers, or wheelchairs, or like only

988
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 1: telling a few people about your illness or disability so

989
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 1: no one can immediately tell that you have a disability

990
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: or illness if it's invisible, so you don't often have

991
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 1: to face the same stigma or judgment and problematic actions

992
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 1: that people with readily visible disabilities too. So that's that

993
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 1: functions that as a sort of privilege. But on the

994
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: other hand, no one can tell immediately that you have

995
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 1: a disability or illness, so they may think that the

996
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 1: condition can't be that bad if it even exists at all,

997
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: So it can kind of feel like people with invisible

998
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 1: disabilities fit in with neither people with disabilities nor people

999
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 1: without disabilities, which can feel kind of alienating sometimes and

1000
01:01:56,120 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 1: passing quote unquote, passing can enforce structures that say a

1001
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: person must be able body to be treated well. Yeah,

1002
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 1: and it's not always a choice though, And when it

1003
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: is a choice, it's just that because a lot of

1004
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: the time, passing can be a protective strategy. In other

1005
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: times people are passed or I'm like it's other people

1006
01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:22,800
Speaker 1: who assume that a person doesn't have the disability right.

1007
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 1: In an article on the Feminist with Disabilities for a

1008
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:29,960
Speaker 1: Way Forward blog, and author describes the guilt of passing.

1009
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 1: But sometimes I don't feel quite real, or as though

1010
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,920
Speaker 1: I'm cheating, an intruder in someone else's identity with regard

1011
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:40,720
Speaker 1: to being disabled. That says some nasty consequences. In the past,

1012
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 1: I've gotten needs met, either because I can't bear to

1013
01:02:43,640 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: out myself or because someone doesn't quite think I'm truthful.

1014
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 1: Passing doesn't mean I'm not struggling to remain standing while

1015
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: we're talking. I struggle with passing and being passed. Sometimes

1016
01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:55,800
Speaker 1: I try and do it to feel safer, never safe,

1017
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: and lose my integrity. Sometimes I am passed, and it's

1018
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 1: a mix of delight and a loss and a damage.

1019
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:05,640
Speaker 1: Whatever I do, it's never enough. I'm never enough. I

1020
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 1: just found that quote so impactful just because it's really complicated,

1021
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 1: Like it's complex, and that struggle is a struggle in

1022
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:18,080
Speaker 1: everyday life for people with invisible disabilities, and it's a

1023
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:20,439
Speaker 1: struggle in the workplace as well as an extension of that.

1024
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 1: So it goes back to the idea of disclosure, Like

1025
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: you're already facing these issues that you just spoke about,

1026
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 1: and on top of that, you're a woman, you know,

1027
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 1: so you just have to deal with a lot of things.

1028
01:03:35,160 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: And this is something that I feel guilty about all

1029
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 1: the time too, because I have a mess or multiple scurossis,

1030
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 1: and it doesn't always present itself and everybody it's It

1031
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,760
Speaker 1: really varies wildly from person to person how it presents.

1032
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 1: And it's also like a progressive disease. So you can

1033
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: be a certain way at one point in your life

1034
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 1: and invisible and be visible because you're using an assistive

1035
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 1: aid at an other point in your life. And I

1036
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 1: feel because I'm at a place where you can't tell

1037
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:09,560
Speaker 1: at all in certain situations, you can only it sometimes

1038
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 1: has flare ups, so in that case it can become visible.

1039
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: But because you can't really see my illness, I often

1040
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 1: feel so guilty and don't feel like I fit into

1041
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:24,480
Speaker 1: one group or another. I'm not quite like like the

1042
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 1: Arthur says, whatever I do, it's never enough, I'm never

1043
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:32,520
Speaker 1: enough because I don't feel I have this privilege to

1044
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 1: where people can't tell. So I'm not necessarily a person

1045
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 1: with disabilities, but in the moments where I am more

1046
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: affected by it in the smaller ways, in the everyday ways,

1047
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:44,360
Speaker 1: and in the more noticeable ways, and I feel like

1048
01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: I should say something about this, like I should be

1049
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 1: louder about this, for all the people who have these

1050
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 1: illnesses that they deal with that nobody can see. So

1051
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 1: I just thought, you know, this idea of having privilege

1052
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 1: and not having a privilege at the same on because nobody,

1053
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:03,680
Speaker 1: when nobody knows, how are they going to address it?

1054
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 1: So it goes back to that idea of empathy and

1055
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 1: not assuming. Yeah, absolutely, and it is. It is complicated,

1056
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:18,439
Speaker 1: and I have often felt that way to where I'm

1057
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:22,800
Speaker 1: almost embarrassed to include myself. I don't feel like I'm

1058
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:30,080
Speaker 1: suffering enough. Yeah, that's a perpetual problem for women. Right. Yeah, Yeah,

1059
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 1: we're touching on a lot of things in this episode. Um,

1060
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 1: but we do have some some hopeful notes to end on,

1061
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:43,960
Speaker 1: some ways to hopefully create change. One. I mean to

1062
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: start off with it, it is a feminist issue and

1063
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: we should treat it as such. Yes, yes, and share

1064
01:05:48,800 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: people with disabilities in general are not invisible, right because

1065
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 1: we're speaking specifically about invisible illnesses today, but in general,

1066
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 1: people disabilities are invisible in a lot of conversations, including

1067
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 1: the feminist one, so that should be said. Um. And

1068
01:06:08,720 --> 01:06:11,880
Speaker 1: also we need to educate people on and raise awareness

1069
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:16,600
Speaker 1: of invisible illnesses. The Invisible Disability Project says there quote

1070
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: social cultural movement and an educational media project that consciously

1071
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:25,560
Speaker 1: disrupts invisibility imposed upon unseen disabilities at the intersections of race, class, gender,

1072
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 1: and sexuality. So they're just one organization that's bringing visibility

1073
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:35,640
Speaker 1: to people with invisible illnesses. And then employers can take

1074
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:38,880
Speaker 1: steps to address the needs of people with invisible disabilities,

1075
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 1: like providing flexibility and centralizing accommodation funding. Right. And the

1076
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 1: thing about that too is that a lot of people

1077
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:52,000
Speaker 1: may think that it's expensive to accommodate Uh, person with

1078
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,640
Speaker 1: disabilities needs in the office, and that's not the case

1079
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 1: um at all a lot of the time. So that's

1080
01:06:58,080 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 1: not an excuse. And another thing that we can think

1081
01:07:02,520 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 1: about is disclosure, which we talked about earlier. Removes that

1082
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 1: emotional labor of bearing the burden of like really juggling

1083
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:12,760
Speaker 1: that illness without having the combinations that you need to

1084
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 1: get your work done, and changing that workplace culture so

1085
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 1: women feel comfortable disclosing as they feel fit. And I

1086
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 1: know make it sound easy by squeezing it into one line,

1087
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 1: and it's not that easy, um, But it's something we

1088
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 1: can continue to work on. And when making recommendations, professionals

1089
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 1: shouldn't imply that disclosure is something that only has positive consequences.

1090
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 1: They should really think about weighing the risks and learn

1091
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:46,240
Speaker 1: from their clients about how their workplace environment is and

1092
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 1: the relationships in their workplace as well as what they

1093
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 1: think about their risk of disclosure. Yeah, it kind of

1094
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 1: reminds me of, um, the conversation around sexual harassment and

1095
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: reporting to h ARE and how that can have negative

1096
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:07,520
Speaker 1: impacts on whoever was reporting that. It's not always a

1097
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 1: positive thing, and we need to look at why that

1098
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:12,680
Speaker 1: is and try to improve that. And another thing that

1099
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:17,000
Speaker 1: we've been talking about a lot lately is destigmatizing mental

1100
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 1: health and all the conversations around that too. And I've

1101
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 1: just been thinking about how in this conversation and this

1102
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:31,280
Speaker 1: whole thing, we're penalizing people for being sick for something

1103
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:33,360
Speaker 1: that's out of their control and then telling them they're

1104
01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 1: lucky to have a job, which is terrible. Um, so

1105
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 1: that needs to change and talking about this and hopefully

1106
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,479
Speaker 1: bringing it up. I I learned a lot doing the

1107
01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 1: research for this episode, and I I think that a

1108
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:53,719
Speaker 1: lot of listeners will learn I have learned something hopefully

1109
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 1: if we've done our job, and I think that is

1110
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:00,680
Speaker 1: that is an important step that is up one is

1111
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:05,160
Speaker 1: to start talking about this and to realize how many

1112
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 1: people are impacted for these things. I agree with you, Annie, Yeah,

1113
01:09:13,360 --> 01:09:18,839
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. Yeah. Creating a better workspace for everyone,

1114
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:24,240
Speaker 1: or workplace and workspace for women with disabilities creates a

1115
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: better workplace in general. It does. It's important to remember

1116
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:35,719
Speaker 1: that this isn't some isolated issue that only revolves around

1117
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:38,840
Speaker 1: certain sets of people. Like the work that we need

1118
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:41,160
Speaker 1: to do and creating a better workplace for women with

1119
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:47,400
Speaker 1: disabilities is work that improves industries and workplaces in general.

1120
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:52,800
Speaker 1: H And I would imagine if I was running a company,

1121
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:56,479
Speaker 1: I would want I would be a good boss, and

1122
01:09:56,560 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: I would want people to be happy. But also I

1123
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 1: would imagine you would want people to be the most

1124
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,559
Speaker 1: productive and best they can be. Right in the irony

1125
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:07,200
Speaker 1: of that is that people think when they I'm generalizing,

1126
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 1: but a lot of employers think that when they hire

1127
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 1: people who have disabilities, are when a person with disabilities

1128
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:17,640
Speaker 1: discloses their condition, that that means they're going to be

1129
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 1: less productive. And that perspective needs to switch to to

1130
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:24,800
Speaker 1: what can I do as an employer to make sure

1131
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,760
Speaker 1: that all of my employees are the most productive that

1132
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 1: they can be m And it really it's not difficult.

1133
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be right, really doesn't, It really doesn't.

1134
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:40,360
Speaker 1: That brings us to the end of this episode. Thank

1135
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 1: you so much Eaves for being a co host with

1136
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:48,160
Speaker 1: me this week. Thank you for inviting me onto this warm,

1137
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 1: lovely I don't know what I'm trying to say. Thank

1138
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: you for inviting me onto Sminty. It's been it's been

1139
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:00,800
Speaker 1: really enlightening to talk about this and it feels like

1140
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 1: a privilege to be able to talk about this in

1141
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 1: the workplace, and I'm happy that we got to do

1142
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:11,759
Speaker 1: it today. I am too, and please come back any time,

1143
01:11:12,120 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 1: pitch me any of your ideas. We'd love to have

1144
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 1: you again, and we would also love to hear from you. Listeners.

1145
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,679
Speaker 1: You can email us at mom Stuff at how stuff

1146
01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 1: works dot com. You can find us on social media

1147
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 1: on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast and on Instagram at

1148
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:34,120
Speaker 1: stuff mom Never Told You. Thanks to you for listening,

1149
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:36,839
Speaker 1: and thanks as always to reproducer Andrew Howard.