Speaker 1: The wustaria ramos como familia or familiar city alien mazarandi.
Speaker 1: What would you like us as your family to know
Speaker 1: or families that have an elder to know?
Speaker 2: Comosa. I said that.
Speaker 3: That they treat them with all the love in their hearts. Yes,
Speaker 3: we may be old, but we feel and not that
Speaker 3: just because we are at this age in life, we
Speaker 3: don't have feelings.
Speaker 1: Welcome to when You're Invisible. My name is Maria Fernanda. Yes,
Speaker 1: but I know not everyone can roll there are, so
Speaker 1: it's fine to call me Maria. When You're Invisible is
Speaker 1: mind love letter to the working class and others who
Speaker 1: are seemingly invisible in our society. I hope to build
Speaker 1: a community here that will inspire you to have generous
Speaker 1: conversations with others that are different from you, conversations that
Speaker 1: might help you see life in an entirely different way.
Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Claudia Boso de Diez. I am Maria's mother.
Speaker 1: You might remember my mom from our first season of
Speaker 1: When You're Invisible. She came on with my dad to
Speaker 1: talk about their immigration journey and their thoughts on Latini.
Speaker 3: Dads and hello to everybody again today.
Speaker 1: Though she's actually not here to be interviewed. She's here
Speaker 1: to help translate for her mom, Ma Avuela. She only
Speaker 1: speaks Spanish, but I really wanted all our listeners to
Speaker 1: be able to hear her story.
Speaker 2: So you Rosena my Coats.
Speaker 3: So I am Rosina my Coat. I am eighty eight
Speaker 3: years old, and I am the grandmother of these girl.
Speaker 1: You're getting three generations of women today. So it's definitely
Speaker 1: going to be intimate and silly and heartfelt, and I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to share it with you. My mom is
Speaker 1: going to do some direct translation, and at other times
Speaker 1: she'll summarize what mya boy lies saying. Will also reflect
Speaker 1: together and Rosa Aina's experiences and how her beliefs about
Speaker 1: the world have impacted our own. How do you feel
Speaker 1: about translating for your mom?
Speaker 3: It will be interesting And I don't know how accurate
Speaker 3: times and hs and things like that are coming out
Speaker 3: on her interview, because as we all know, as we
Speaker 3: get old remembering, things could be a little bit different
Speaker 3: or change. But the most important thing for me is
Speaker 3: that you heard her voice and her own story as
Speaker 3: it is in her own mind.
Speaker 1: Right now, me and my grandmother have a great relationship
Speaker 1: We're very different from each other, but we've always been close.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I think bonds us is
Speaker 1: our playfulness. We are both always willing to laugh, and
Speaker 1: I grew up alongside her. She lived with my family
Speaker 1: for three to six months every year, and you'll hear
Speaker 1: how close we are in our conversation. We may not
Speaker 1: translate every time she calls me mirrena.
Speaker 3: H.
Speaker 1: The list goes on. She's always using terms of endearment
Speaker 1: to talk to me, and these phrases mean my queen, divinity, beauty, basically,
Speaker 1: all the beautiful things that you would say to someone
Speaker 1: you love, we say in Spanish. I always feel her
Speaker 1: love that way. But as close and loving of a
Speaker 1: relationship as we have, there are many things we haven't
Speaker 1: talked about before. Sometimes she can seem like this silly,
Speaker 1: sweet old woman, and maybe her full humanity goes and
Speaker 1: see there's more to unpack. I assume a lot of
Speaker 1: grandmother granddaughter relationships are like this. Your grandmother probably isn't
Speaker 1: the first person you can finde in about dating or sex,
Speaker 1: or how you should dress or wear your makeup. If
Speaker 1: she is, that's awesome. My grandmother, however, does have very
Speaker 1: traditional ideas and sometimes that's been a source of conflict
Speaker 1: between us. But I wanted to use this interview as
Speaker 1: a chance to push our relationship, to ask her questions
Speaker 1: I've never asked before. So let's get into this intergenerational
Speaker 1: episode camera. What memory do you have of me?
Speaker 3: Of you? Uh? Huh, any man?
Speaker 1: But which ones stand out?
Speaker 3: I think she's remembering if you experienced with you like
Speaker 3: the corner apartment of Cornell. Yeah, they had here right
Speaker 3: next to it, and you coming down the tricycles, your
Speaker 3: hair blow back by the way, yes allah, Or when
Speaker 3: we took you to the fair and you made her
Speaker 3: ride all the rides see, or even when several times
Speaker 3: during the summer will take you to Cornell ice cream
Speaker 3: and how meticulous you were eating your cone, comparably with
Speaker 3: your brother that will have stains of chocolate all over
Speaker 3: his face.
Speaker 1: I love the fact that some of her fondest memory
Speaker 1: is involved dessert. No matter her age, or her health
Speaker 1: or what's happening in life, her sweet teeth always helps
Speaker 1: her find a bright spot. Rosana Francisco and me, we
Speaker 1: were like the three Musketeers growing up. A short Mexican
Speaker 1: woman with no English and her two tiny grandchildren. We'd
Speaker 1: go exploring with her when my parents were working, whether
Speaker 1: it would be to the library or sledding, or she'd
Speaker 1: also go on bigger adventures like road trips with the
Speaker 1: whole family, whether we were living in student housing in
Speaker 1: waterfall filled Ehica, New York, or in an apartment or
Speaker 1: a duplex, or later a house in freezing but beautiful Minnesota,
Speaker 1: or in rural Georgia with its breath taking sunsets through
Speaker 1: it all. Maya Buela has been a long for the ride.
Speaker 1: Having her stay with us has been for as long
Speaker 1: as I can remember. I believe my grandmother was in
Speaker 1: her fifties when that started, right, Mom.
Speaker 3: Yes, she was fifty six when she came towards the
Speaker 3: first time.
Speaker 1: Not all the apartments we lived in had two rooms
Speaker 1: for me and my brother, so sometimes my grandmother would
Speaker 1: stay in the living room or the basement, or when
Speaker 1: we did have to either she'd have one of our
Speaker 1: rooms or she'd share with me.
Speaker 3: That before I was in a little house that belonged
Speaker 3: to my brother, and when I went to Rekaia the
Speaker 3: four of my kids, Mom, what do you want to
Speaker 3: do in the house you have? You will have to
Speaker 3: pay rent, electricity, water, telephone, everything, all the services. With
Speaker 3: those you can spend a season with each of us
Speaker 3: and that's it. You won't have to worry. And that's
Speaker 3: how it's started. So I knew all of your grandchildren as.
Speaker 2: Newborns presents.
Speaker 1: And did you want to do that or no?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Actor, well, I mean yes, I agree because it
Speaker 3: was a realistic and a good agreement. You understand me.
Speaker 3: But I would have wanted to have my small.
Speaker 2: House nor those cases aficat right now.
Speaker 1: It was the right decision, but of course it was
Speaker 1: a big adjustment, especially because she'd be going between three
Speaker 1: different cities in a year, not to mention two different countries.
Speaker 1: When do you feel invisible.
Speaker 3: When everyone here is s tucking in English?
Speaker 1: Mayauila never really learned English. There were times when we
Speaker 1: would encourage it or try to teach her. Mostly though
Speaker 1: my family would communicate in Spanish, but of course sometimes
Speaker 1: we'd host people who spoke English. And now my brother
Speaker 1: is Maryton, American who only speaks English. On these occasions
Speaker 1: I try to translate, but she feels bad that we
Speaker 1: even have to. When do you feel most visible.
Speaker 3: On birthdays in Mexico and Pristmas New Year's Eves. Really
Speaker 3: everyone's birthdays here too, but only when they speak to me.
Speaker 1: Fast for Maya Boila Spanish is her comfort zone. This
Speaker 1: is where she feels seen. It's a little weird to
Speaker 1: hear that she feels most visible when she's not at
Speaker 1: my family home, but that's her truth. Personally, I've been
Speaker 1: in situations where I'm communicating across a language barrier, and
Speaker 1: I do think it's possible to have real moments of
Speaker 1: connection even if you don't share a language. But visibility
Speaker 1: is complex, and sometimes it truly is in the eye
Speaker 1: of the beholder or the beheld. After the break, we're
Speaker 1: going to dive deeper into Roseana's belief system, including ideas
Speaker 1: we may not agree on.
Speaker 4: Will be right back, Welcome back.
Speaker 1: To when You're invisible. When I think about Rosayana, there
Speaker 1: are two more obvious sides to her. There's the one
Speaker 1: side of my boy lad that is joyful and silly
Speaker 1: and love sell librating, and then there's another side, the
Speaker 1: one that's very conforming, risk adverse, and more judgmental. One
Speaker 1: way I see this side come out is how she
Speaker 1: views appearance, no matter where my aila is, how many
Speaker 1: people she knows or what she's going through. She always
Speaker 1: looks beyond put together. It's different than our standard in
Speaker 1: the US. People think my grandmother is dressed for a
Speaker 1: wedding or a formal event. That's the Mexican standard we're
Speaker 1: talking about here. My grandma always needs to be made
Speaker 1: up before anyone comes over to visit or she leaves
Speaker 1: the house, even if it's just to the grocery store.
Speaker 1: She curls her short hair and dons one of her
Speaker 1: signature lip colors, pink or orange. We don't see Eida
Speaker 1: eye on these things. If it were up to my Aboila,
Speaker 1: I would be in a dress with heels and makeup
Speaker 1: every day and spoiler.
Speaker 4: Alone, listeners, that's not me.
Speaker 1: Some of the greatest pressure from her I faced growing
Speaker 1: up was to look nice, meaning ladylike and hyper feminine.
Speaker 1: It's something that I've really had to figure out, and
Speaker 1: it's one of the reasons I'm grateful to have two
Speaker 1: cultures and be a part of a younger generation because
Speaker 1: it's created space to question what I want for myself,
Speaker 1: space that I'm not sure Mayaboila ever had, and that's
Speaker 1: something I wanted to make room for in our conversation Sempres,
Speaker 1: You've always been like this, always put together, you know,
Speaker 1: made up. You've always painted your lips, your eyes, have
Speaker 1: your hair done, the works, made up, same flaty coming.
Speaker 3: Yes. Around sixteen lighteen, I went to work when I
Speaker 3: had to go very well groove together.
Speaker 1: But even now, for example, with age, that hasn't changed.
Speaker 3: I know, am I going to go without makeup? Well?
Speaker 1: There are people who stop as they get older.
Speaker 3: I would die without looking put together.
Speaker 1: I'm just curious. Do you feel confident in your own skin?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 1: To me, it's interesting because for me, you should be
Speaker 1: able to not wear it and feel good.
Speaker 3: But I like it in this way.
Speaker 1: It's so interesting to hear this concept that Mauilla says that, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm confident in my own skin, but I would never
Speaker 1: go outside without makeup. I worked really hard to unpack
Speaker 1: and understand why I dress and look the way I do.
Speaker 1: Over the years, I found that I need the freedom
Speaker 1: to express who I am, however I am in any
Speaker 1: given day or moment in my life, and I've had
Speaker 1: to break out of these rigid expectations of womanhood and
Speaker 1: femininity in more ways than one. What are the differences
Speaker 1: you noticed between your generation and mine.
Speaker 2: Or a hemp your quest answer? Okay.
Speaker 1: Through all this laughter, my Auila is basically saying that
Speaker 1: she would never established relations aka have sex. That's what
Speaker 1: she's hinting at right now, that she would never have
Speaker 1: dreamed of having sex with my grandfather outside of marriage.
Speaker 1: And yet me now in this generation, I'm experiencing something
Speaker 1: very different. I know it's hard for her to be
Speaker 1: straightforward about this, especially because we don't normally talk about
Speaker 1: this together. It's just too awkward and taboo. But I
Speaker 1: figured this is my one chance to find out what
Speaker 1: she really thought. Would you have liked to have had relations?
Speaker 3: No? I mean it wasn't the norm in my culture
Speaker 3: because of my religion, part of society that I belong to.
Speaker 3: Do you understand me today?
Speaker 1: Of course, cultural feelings have shifted, and she knows that, but.
Speaker 3: But I don't love that about my granddaughters.
Speaker 4: Oh wait, what do you mean?
Speaker 3: You have one person and then you experiment have another
Speaker 3: and then more an experiment. I don't know if you
Speaker 3: have done it.
Speaker 1: At this point in the interview, Mayo Boila started just
Speaker 1: naming my cousins and guessing who's had sex. So we're
Speaker 1: not playing that tape for the sake of their privacy,
Speaker 1: but my jaw was on the floor. I told her
Speaker 1: that I sure would hope that by thirty I would
Speaker 1: have already have had sex. I say things like this
Speaker 1: at times to challenge her.
Speaker 3: You know, you know, it's a perfect What I do
Speaker 3: not like is having so many? Why so many?
Speaker 1: Why not so many?
Speaker 3: I know?
Speaker 1: But literally the question is why why do you think.
Speaker 3: That because I would like it to be for one,
Speaker 3: not for three, four or five?
Speaker 1: But why Because my Wela speculates that it's because of
Speaker 1: the religious ideals or concerns about safety that leads to
Speaker 1: some of her perspectives. There were times when I felt
Speaker 1: like this conversation was really pushing her, and then I
Speaker 1: would come up against this wall. I couldn't totally get
Speaker 1: her to explore this question of why these expectations exist
Speaker 1: and whether they're unfair to me. It speaks to how
Speaker 1: rigid the norms were for women when she was growing up,
Speaker 1: and even how it still is in Mexico. I think
Speaker 1: my family has held this way of thinking for a
Speaker 1: long time, and I wasn't sure how she would judge
Speaker 1: me if I didn't conform to her. Her standards, But
Speaker 1: does your opinion of me change knowing that I've had
Speaker 1: sex with more than one person?
Speaker 2: Hey, no, no, it hated to be that.
Speaker 1: It's your life and you know what you do, and
Speaker 1: I'm happy to perfect then perfect and I know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm very happy.
Speaker 3: Yeah me, Moore, I wouldn't change my love for you
Speaker 3: depending on that.
Speaker 1: This is the first time I've heard this sentiment and
Speaker 1: ideas from her. I feel like I thought this was
Speaker 1: going to be a toss up on how she'd respond,
Speaker 1: so it was refreshing to hear her say that. My
Speaker 1: mom also shared her thoughts on the progress that Rosanna
Speaker 1: has made.
Speaker 3: I think also for her having experience of living with
Speaker 3: all sung with you guys that you have grown up,
Speaker 3: you have helped her in many ways change the wage
Speaker 3: she thought. Right, you have opened her eyes and even
Speaker 3: our eyes, to a different way of thinking, to a
Speaker 3: different way of accepting, to a different way of openness.
Speaker 1: Sex and sexuality are complex subjects in many families. Mexico
Speaker 1: has just within the past decade developed support for gay
Speaker 1: pride and pride parades and the like. I remember witnessing
Speaker 1: a change and how sexuality was discussed within my extended family,
Speaker 1: even within the last few years. And if any of
Speaker 1: us were gay, would you mind?
Speaker 3: I don't know if I know what to answer.
Speaker 4: Why not?
Speaker 3: Well, maybe I wouldn't care because I know it's something
Speaker 3: from birth.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's where we agree.
Speaker 1: This is as far as I would personally go. My
Speaker 1: grandmother is very kind and accepting, but I've never personally
Speaker 1: talked openly about my sexuality with most people, let alone
Speaker 1: most people in my family. Identifying as by would be
Speaker 1: orgn territory. Being gay feels simpler to most people in
Speaker 1: my family than seeing sexuality as a spectrum. Do you
Speaker 1: think that women should be a specific way?
Speaker 3: Everyone is different? You are different from different from your mother,
Speaker 3: even though you are her daughters.
Speaker 1: And if I don't get married, but if I don't
Speaker 1: have a partner, what do you worry about me?
Speaker 3: No? No, because you are already fool You are yourself
Speaker 3: and completely ground since that's why I don't worry. If
Speaker 3: I have a little worry, I will let you know.
Speaker 1: I think she normally worries about me, But hearing this
Speaker 1: conversation means a lot that even for a moment, she
Speaker 1: could hold space for deeper exploration and trust me in
Speaker 1: my own happiness. We'll be right back. Welcome back to
Speaker 1: when you're invisible. After talking about our generational differences, I
Speaker 1: wanted to hear more about the world Maabela grew up in.
Speaker 1: What were the conditions that shaped this woman who helped
Speaker 1: trace me.
Speaker 3: My mother was born in Mexico City, but when she
Speaker 3: was very young, they moved to Monterey. My grandfather had
Speaker 3: a transportation business, and what I understood is that they
Speaker 3: were going to open another branch in Monterey, so they
Speaker 3: moved there. And because she was so young when she
Speaker 3: moved there, now she considered herself from Monterey Regia Resia.
Speaker 3: People from Monterey are called Rechia Montanos.
Speaker 1: So Regia for sure. And way for those who don't know,
Speaker 1: it's a big city that's in a valley of mountains.
Speaker 1: It's super commercial and it's I think a city where
Speaker 1: the rich have a rep for being too bougie. Fressa
Speaker 1: up in this tape, I call her fressa. Fresa literally
Speaker 1: means strawberry, mom. Can you explain what fressa means?
Speaker 3: For one reason of another, the women from that part
Speaker 3: of the north are called fressas. We are the bougie
Speaker 3: of society.
Speaker 1: Especially like wealthy women. Yep, Fressa, and then she responds
Speaker 1: with that she's not really, she's.
Speaker 3: Half and half because she was born Fressa but went
Speaker 3: down the hill. My grandparents lost their fortune.
Speaker 1: Okay, so it was growing up that Mayaboila was considered Fresa.
Speaker 1: It's super interesting how her wealth changed a lot over
Speaker 1: her lifetime, but starting with when she was young, she
Speaker 1: had two siblings, lived in a nice house with her
Speaker 1: two parents. Her mother was a housewife who was given
Speaker 1: enough money by her husband to not only take care
Speaker 1: of the house and kids, but to buy jewelry, nice clothes,
Speaker 1: and even plots of land. Rosina went to a private
Speaker 1: Catholic school called the Sacred.
Speaker 4: Heart in.
Speaker 1: Her school was very traditional. It was all girls then
Speaker 1: and they wore uniforms every day.
Speaker 3: And we will walk uphill to get to the school
Speaker 3: because it was at the top of a mountain. It
Speaker 3: was a very old school and we will walk there
Speaker 3: to the top or take the car there. I remember
Speaker 3: back then that there was an ice cream car which
Speaker 3: will come and we will buy popsicles from the man
Speaker 3: that brought the ice cream. While we were at school,
Speaker 3: we will hear the ice cream bells and everyone will
Speaker 3: look out, and he had to throw the popsicles up
Speaker 3: to us.
Speaker 1: Here is another cour dessert memory, of course, one of
Speaker 1: her most cherished recollections from childhood. It would be about popsicles. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: what did you do for fun?
Speaker 3: No, we had a very wholesome fun. We had fun
Speaker 3: with roller skaters and bicycles. We all went to the movies.
Speaker 3: We will hang out on my house. We were friends
Speaker 3: from the same neighborhood. Okay, the girls formed a clue,
Speaker 3: the Club twenty one because they were twenty one girls.
Speaker 1: This club of twenty one girls started at Catholic school
Speaker 1: when they were ten years old and it lasted until
Speaker 1: until now.
Speaker 3: Yes, I am eighty eight right now, and we still
Speaker 3: get together, sometimes not as frequent because some have lost
Speaker 3: their memory or they cannot move very well.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I've heard about this group of friends before.
Speaker 1: It's part of the myth and the zegeist of the
Speaker 1: life of my grandmother because all of these women, as
Speaker 1: they got married, became an even bigger group. Actually didn't
Speaker 1: know the origin stories of Club twenty one, and it's
Speaker 1: really impressive and beautiful to me. They've been friends for
Speaker 1: seventy eight plus years. This is rare, but honestly, I
Speaker 1: hope I get that where I have friends who have
Speaker 1: had for most of my life and care deeply about.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you know, Maria, but that club
Speaker 3: may possy our wedding reception, your dad's and that really yes,
Speaker 3: without them, we had not had a wedding reception. Wow.
Speaker 1: So these women really were like almost like twenty twenty
Speaker 1: one fairy godmothers to each other's families.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, the wedding was held in one of
Speaker 3: their houses, in that beautiful garden they decorated. They did
Speaker 3: amazing work through friendship. Yeah, looking after each other and
Speaker 3: each other's family if it was necessary.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful because I think we as a family carry
Speaker 1: that legacy on. I think of my cousin Daniels Kintana.
Speaker 1: We decorated and baked everything for her party. It's almost
Speaker 1: like we continued this beautiful tradition that these women created.
Speaker 1: So how were you raised?
Speaker 3: They raised me a little strictly in that everything had
Speaker 3: to be done the right way. Nothing about arriving at
Speaker 3: midnight from a date or gathering no way.
Speaker 2: A long day.
Speaker 1: My Willa says. The good thing is they would hang
Speaker 1: out at her friend's houses or a lot of the
Speaker 1: time at her house. It wasn't about going out out.
Speaker 1: They never went to clubs. My Willa was surrounded by
Speaker 1: strict rules and a deep concern for what was proper.
Speaker 1: And you can see how all this translates back to
Speaker 1: the beliefs about women and femininity that she raised me with.
Speaker 1: Wealth wasn't necessarily freedom, and even though appearance mattered so
Speaker 1: much in the world she came up in, by the
Speaker 1: time she was a young woman, a lot had changed
Speaker 1: for her and her family.
Speaker 3: I think my mom was around nineteen years old when
Speaker 3: they lost their fortune. What I understand is that my
Speaker 3: grandfather had a business partner and made him, or not
Speaker 3: make him, but he allow himself to sign some paper
Speaker 3: for a very bad business did made him be the
Speaker 3: only one responsible for that deal, so he lost everything.
Speaker 1: Things changed virtually overnight. Rosana's mother had to sell the
Speaker 1: plts of landa she bought and many of her possessions
Speaker 1: to help her husband. And of course, my grandmother had
Speaker 1: a certain vision of her life before this, and it
Speaker 1: didn't involve having a job.
Speaker 3: When she had to start looking for jobs, cousins of
Speaker 3: her said, you know what, Rosita, I will take you
Speaker 3: to an engineer that I know that have jobs that right,
Speaker 3: So I thought was that she could work with the
Speaker 3: engineer at her as his secretary, and she head out
Speaker 3: to meet him. He was the owner of a large
Speaker 3: construction company. I guess it was the first construction company
Speaker 3: in Monterey.
Speaker 1: Was terrified to start this job though she had no
Speaker 1: idea what to expect. She had to take a test
Speaker 1: first and really didn't know what to do. But she
Speaker 1: got the job and she succeeded. She started from the bottom,
Speaker 1: but because she was really good at math, she worked
Speaker 1: her way up and became the secretary of the head engineer,
Speaker 1: the owner of the company. And how long did you
Speaker 1: work there?
Speaker 3: For? Seven years? Yes?
Speaker 1: Yes, you made your own money.
Speaker 2: Cci.
Speaker 1: Actually, though my grandmother was never paid directly, the money
Speaker 1: she earned went to her parents because women couldn't even
Speaker 1: have their own accounts at this point, which is crazy
Speaker 1: to think about. Women were just expected to be at
Speaker 1: home under their father's roofs until they got married.
Speaker 3: I got married at twenty five, and it was when
Speaker 3: I left and stopped working.
Speaker 1: Yes, did you know that when you got married you
Speaker 1: were going to stop working?
Speaker 3: Passing because Fernando, my husband, told me I will no longer.
Speaker 1: Work And how did you feel about that?
Speaker 3: Well, I didn't feel liberated because I was very comfortable.
Speaker 3: I was already the lead engineer secretary, and it made
Speaker 3: me sad because I got along very well with all
Speaker 3: of the engineers and the staff maintains.
Speaker 1: Again, here's the point where my grandmother's lifestyle and class
Speaker 1: status is changing dramatically, and all of a sudden, I
Speaker 1: am sad that she had to give up one good
Speaker 1: thing for another. But this is what marriage meant at
Speaker 1: the time, and luckily there was a happy one. Tell
Speaker 1: us the story of how you met.
Speaker 3: A friend of mine was hosting a party at her
Speaker 3: house and another friend of mine tells me, fro Sienna,
Speaker 3: let's go. But I had to invite someone, so I
Speaker 3: told her, No.
Speaker 1: You needed to write someone. You cann't go along.
Speaker 3: No, we all required to go with someone.
Speaker 1: So that's another difference between my time and yours. I
Speaker 1: don't need a plus one to attend an event.
Speaker 3: I did. Oh yes. Then she tells me, look, my boyfriend.
Speaker 3: He lives in a boarding house, and at the boarding
Speaker 3: house is a boy who is from Mexico City. I
Speaker 3: can invite him for you. I say, well, but with
Speaker 3: one condition. I will look through the window and if
Speaker 3: I like him, I will go out. But if I don't,
Speaker 3: you will tell him that I got sick. Okay, Well,
Speaker 3: then the time comes for the dance and Fernando gets
Speaker 3: out of the car, goes up the two steps to
Speaker 3: the front door. He stops at the window and I
Speaker 3: see him.
Speaker 2: Maria's a.
Speaker 3: Fernande. I shot up weekly and decided immediately he was
Speaker 3: very handsome, very handsome, very handsome.
Speaker 1: What Mayauilla literally says is that she shot out like
Speaker 1: a cork of a champagne bottle, which is so beautiful
Speaker 1: and accurate for this moment of immediate love and celebration.
Speaker 1: They got married and had four kids, including my mom
Speaker 1: of course the eldest, and after five years of living
Speaker 1: together in Monterrey, they moved to Mexico City. But just
Speaker 1: a few months after moving to embark on a new
Speaker 1: chapter of their lives, as she was still unpacking boxes,
Speaker 1: her husband Fernando passed away.
Speaker 3: I was thirty one and your grandfather was thirty three.
Speaker 1: So at my age you were already a widow.
Speaker 3: Thirty one years old and with four children.
Speaker 1: How did he die.
Speaker 2: Das senamo Mndrico de Yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: Tragically. Fernando died in the middle of the night on
Speaker 1: New Year's Eve. My grandmother says she went running into
Speaker 1: the street for help, you know, barefoot and wearing only
Speaker 1: a nightgown. People thought she was crazy. By the time
Speaker 1: she came back with help, though, it was too late,
Speaker 1: and it was.
Speaker 3: Very, very painful. Even up until now, there are many
Speaker 3: things that I do not remember. After your grandfather's death.
Speaker 1: And it's shortly after his death, her parents convinced her
Speaker 1: to move back to montetheree.
Speaker 3: Oh, yes, they went to the funeral, and yes, immediately
Speaker 3: after he passed, we pack everything and we moved back
Speaker 3: to their home.
Speaker 1: So Senna and the kids returned to Monterey to be
Speaker 1: with her family and friends. They moved into my great grandparents' apartment.
Speaker 1: They lived all together in a small home above a shop.
Speaker 3: Can you imagine how many we were seven people in
Speaker 3: two bedroom a very large bedroom apartment, but just two Yeah,
Speaker 3: so it was just the four girls in one bedroom
Speaker 3: and my grandfather, grandmother and my brother in the other one.
Speaker 1: Through the darkness, my grandmother still thought to provide the
Speaker 1: best for her kids. Then yes, I suspect that did
Speaker 1: you have expectations for your children?
Speaker 2: See?
Speaker 3: Okay, like what well? I want them to grow up
Speaker 3: with ambition.
Speaker 2: To causuon brote, moral and intel education.
Speaker 1: Even though she had no money, she allowed herself to
Speaker 1: be vulnerable and asked her community for help. They came through.
Speaker 3: So I tried by all means to get them educated
Speaker 3: in good schools, which scholarship. One of my friends from
Speaker 3: the club twenty one, she's just a beautiful woman. She
Speaker 3: paid for all of Fernando's my son in primari and
Speaker 3: secondary school. Wow.
Speaker 1: I didn't know that public schools in Mexico are not
Speaker 1: really an option and the way that they are here.
Speaker 1: Her son received a donation for his education. For her daughters,
Speaker 1: she found support in getting them scholarships. As a single
Speaker 1: mother of four, she also joined the workforce.
Speaker 3: A friend of the family had a junior store and said, Rosita,
Speaker 3: why don't you come and work with me? Loness, I
Speaker 3: had to work from Monday through Sara from nine am
Speaker 3: until seven point thirty at night, with one hour lunch break.
Speaker 3: So when I got home, I will just tell the kids,
Speaker 3: let me just rest for fifteen minutes and I will
Speaker 3: be with you. I rested for fifteen minutes and I
Speaker 3: was with us.
Speaker 1: Do you remember what your mam was like during this time?
Speaker 3: You know she had to work right. So Sundays will
Speaker 3: be the joyful locations for us as a family. We
Speaker 3: will take the Boss, the city Boss, the four of
Speaker 3: us and we'll meet her at the jewelry store from
Speaker 3: where she asked permission, and we will all go to
Speaker 3: our coffee shop and ask for the chocolate cake. So
Speaker 3: chocolate cake has a sweet memory for the five Boss.
Speaker 1: Do you remember her as happy during this time or
Speaker 1: do you feel like she was more solemn? What was
Speaker 1: she like comparatively?
Speaker 3: Definitely, sometimes she will lose herself in another place and
Speaker 3: like become solemn, as you say, But I have good
Speaker 3: memories of her. Something that characterized your grandmother, and you
Speaker 3: know that is a woman with a big smile. Everybody
Speaker 3: that missed her said that it's like a walking heart, really,
Speaker 3: you know, with a huge heart.
Speaker 1: Taking the time to look back at my grandmother's life.
Speaker 1: She really has been through so much hardship, and yeah,
Speaker 1: it's amazing to hear aunt witness her warmth and kindness.
Speaker 1: For that, I'm so grateful. We'll be right back, and
Speaker 1: we're back. This episode has become so many things, but
Speaker 1: one of the first reasons I wanted to sit down
Speaker 1: with an elder was because I wanted to address that caretaking,
Speaker 1: which we don't often deal with and at times it
Speaker 1: makes people feel invisible. It's something I've actually heard my
Speaker 1: will say that as you lose faculties, people start disregarding you.
Speaker 1: What has it been like getting older?
Speaker 3: I guess I am happy. I am happy because I
Speaker 3: see what I have had a hand in building all
Speaker 3: around me. Do you do you understand me? And I
Speaker 3: feel blessed?
Speaker 1: What are the biggest changes and.
Speaker 3: The wrinkles that I see in the mirror? Since I
Speaker 3: am a little bit bay and I see myself with
Speaker 3: more and more and more. You don't like that, well,
Speaker 3: I guess they come from lots of experiences, good experiences too,
Speaker 3: so that's why it's okay.
Speaker 1: Since Mexican culture is one that takes care of its
Speaker 1: elders at home, this is a particularly beautiful moment to
Speaker 1: me to hear what it's like from the inside, because
Speaker 1: with aging and relationships and family, it's a complicated dance
Speaker 1: of respect, love and yet the stress that comes with it.
Speaker 1: It was a little jarring to recognize how pervasive nursing
Speaker 1: homes are in the US, and strange for me to
Speaker 1: hear that young people don't see their grandparents very often
Speaker 1: any either, situation, responsibility, finances, and bandwidth are huge considerations.
Speaker 1: It's not easy to talk directly about these things, or
Speaker 1: about dignity, loneliness, or the fear of being a burden.
Speaker 1: Do you like that you're still with your family or
Speaker 1: would you prefer retirement home?
Speaker 3: No? No, no, no, no no. I am happy to
Speaker 3: be with family because I see them every time. I
Speaker 3: can't how they have evolved, how they feel, their marriage,
Speaker 3: their partners, their thinking, their jobs.
Speaker 1: What do you think of nursing homes?
Speaker 3: I don't like them. I mean it depends on the
Speaker 3: nursing home, Like if you know people who are there,
Speaker 3: then maybe it will be okay. But also I have
Speaker 3: always gotten along with everyone, so there's such chance that
Speaker 3: I will have been okay with being at one. But
Speaker 3: thinking about it, I wouldn't like to be in one
Speaker 3: of them.
Speaker 1: Don't you like about them?
Speaker 3: They seem cold to me.
Speaker 1: For my mom, taking care of a parent who is
Speaker 1: a good parent is something she feels is a natural
Speaker 1: responsibility and part of life when.
Speaker 3: You have had a parent like my When I asked
Speaker 3: her at one time, why do you get married again,
Speaker 3: she said, because I lost the love of my life
Speaker 3: and after losing him, I became a mother first. Yeah,
Speaker 3: no longer a woman. That why for me is an
Speaker 3: honor to be able to take care of her.
Speaker 1: This responsibility has intensified over time as my grandmother has
Speaker 1: gotten older, and in the last few years she's needed
Speaker 1: more medical care and even been hospitalized more than once.
Speaker 1: Her children have all chipped in to pay for the
Speaker 1: care she needs and to provide it themselves. Yet even
Speaker 1: when she's healthy, Rosaina talks about life as if it's ended.
Speaker 4: For the past ten.
Speaker 1: Years, my grandmother has been so aware of her aging
Speaker 1: that she's been assuming that she would die every single year.
Speaker 1: She literally cries about it every time we say goodbye.
Speaker 4: It's pretty much.
Speaker 1: Become a running joke. And what do you think about
Speaker 1: your life? Like, for example, for the last ten years,
Speaker 1: you've been saying that, like, this is the end, that
Speaker 1: you're going to die this year, I always say that, yeah,
Speaker 1: that this is the last time you're going to see me.
Speaker 3: Because who knows. I thought that maybe the girl who
Speaker 3: was going to take me, but no, from what I see,
Speaker 3: he already put in a peacemaker for another ten years.
Speaker 2: So here I am is he story.
Speaker 1: The peacemaker that she mentions was put in this past
Speaker 1: year and when this happened, the doctor literally told her
Speaker 1: you have another ten to fifteen years to live. And
Speaker 1: the shock on this woman's face. She literally did not
Speaker 1: say anything for a full minute, and I was like,
Speaker 1: are you okay? And she was like, I need one
Speaker 1: more second to process. It was amazing and hilarious moment.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's a shock. You're in the sunset of
Speaker 1: your life and then you're like, I have fifteen more
Speaker 1: miles ago.
Speaker 4: What are you happy about that?
Speaker 3: I'm very happy, but I want a great grandchild. You
Speaker 3: hurry up or you fuck.
Speaker 1: I love how she talks to me. Sometimes this is
Speaker 1: the Mexican SaaS coming in, and I love that she
Speaker 1: feels free to be straight up with these feelings and listeners.
Speaker 1: By the time this airs, she will have a great grandchild,
Speaker 1: so her wish will be completed. Congratulations to my brother
Speaker 1: and his wife on their baby girl. What is your
Speaker 1: relationship to death?
Speaker 3: Is my companion? Since when? Since I had emergency her. Yes,
Speaker 3: I said to her, you take me whenever you want to.
Speaker 1: It doesn't scare you.
Speaker 3: I am at peace with God and I am at
Speaker 3: peace with everyone. Everyone loves me. Bless God. My grandchildress
Speaker 3: adore me, my children too, my sons in law too,
Speaker 3: my daughter in law? How much could I ask for?
Speaker 1: Is it hard to lose your friends?
Speaker 2: See?
Speaker 1: What is the most difficult.
Speaker 3: The junion that we have with them, the drawth that
Speaker 3: you have having grown since you were little back then,
Speaker 3: and growing up together because we were all always together.
Speaker 3: It hurts, It really hurts, and.
Speaker 2: Says see.
Speaker 3: Maya.
Speaker 1: Willa's closest friends have always been the women of club.
Speaker 1: Twenty one are in nursing homes now, and six of
Speaker 1: them have passed away. One of them was the Patricia,
Speaker 1: who was the anonymous owner from my uncle's scholarship which
Speaker 1: covered his entire schooling. That one hurt a lot because
Speaker 1: Patricia died while Rosa and I was abroad and she
Speaker 1: couldn't be there. It broke her heart.
Speaker 5: Common how do you carry the pains.
Speaker 3: With humility? I have to be humble and at ease
Speaker 3: because I know that they are in heaven.
Speaker 1: Jose, And what was it like to lose your brother
Speaker 1: and to watch him have Alzheimer's.
Speaker 3: Tremendous, tremendously difficult. I mean I went to see him
Speaker 3: every night because in the last few months of his
Speaker 3: illness I already saw it was very bad seeing him
Speaker 3: with the aggressiveness only sometimes being the man who was
Speaker 3: so novel and so beautiful affected me deeply. You don't
Speaker 3: know how much I admire Selvia and thank her. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Selvia is my uncle's Memo's wife.
Speaker 1: The pain and grief of losing someone is one of
Speaker 1: the hardest things we carry in our lives. But sometimes,
Speaker 1: if you're lucky, going through this with another person can
Speaker 1: bring you closer together. Maiauela and her brother's wife Selvia
Speaker 1: forged a beautiful friendship in the wake of their loss,
Speaker 1: and his wife, Selvia has always been way more reserved
Speaker 1: than Memmo. And now it's really sweet. It's like Selvia
Speaker 1: and my grandmother have become the best of friends.
Speaker 3: They are like sisters.
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, they are like sisters, and it's so cute
Speaker 1: because they'll play cards together, they'll watch TV together, and to.
Speaker 3: Kia, Alejandra found tas Selvia standing by the door of
Speaker 3: the bedroom the guest bedroom, and he's Tia, what are
Speaker 3: you doing? And she said, I'm waiting for Rosianna. Dis
Speaker 3: Selba is Roseaienna's legs, and Rosienna is t s Selba's mind.
Speaker 1: As they've aged, different parts of them have been going
Speaker 1: my grandma her legs, my aunt her mind. Together they
Speaker 1: work as a unit to help guide each other. It's
Speaker 1: a precious understanding of vulnerability and care. Actually have a
Speaker 1: video of the two of them. I recorded it a
Speaker 1: couple of years ago after one of my grandmother's emergency surgeries.
Speaker 1: She and Selvia hadn't seen each other, and the video
Speaker 1: captures their reunion. They press their foreheads together and hold
Speaker 1: each other tight, almost steadying one another. They cry and
Speaker 1: tell each other how grateful they are to see the other.
Speaker 1: Sylvia understands Marbuela in a way that I never will,
Speaker 1: because they share a stage of life and are truly
Speaker 1: going through it as a team, deeply interconnected. How does
Speaker 1: it feel to go from a caretaker to being cared for?
Speaker 3: Well, I feel all right because I am old enough.
Speaker 4: She used to be.
Speaker 3: If I were stronger, more inclined to do things myself,
Speaker 3: more independent, I will feel bad.
Speaker 1: Independent I remember one thing you say sometimes is that
Speaker 1: you don't want to be a burden.
Speaker 3: Yes, and I mean it. I don't want to be
Speaker 3: a burden, especially a very long illness. That's why I
Speaker 3: pray God for not to be in bed for months
Speaker 3: and months like my o. Their memo was.
Speaker 2: No care.
Speaker 1: It's hard to hear her say that because she's old
Speaker 1: or fragile, it's okay to be taken care of, as
Speaker 1: if under any other circumstances it wouldn't be. I know
Speaker 1: it has more to do with her wanting her independence,
Speaker 1: but it's still tough. We can't control when or how
Speaker 1: we need care, and hopefully, if we're lucky, there are
Speaker 1: people who are willing and able to help us. But
Speaker 1: it's scary to think of the pain emotional or physical
Speaker 1: that we might go through or cause others to go through.
Speaker 1: It's not easy, and I want to acknowledge that whether
Speaker 1: you're being taken care of or a caretaker, all the
Speaker 1: fears and feelings are valid. But I also wish that
Speaker 1: we could ease up on the guilt over something that
Speaker 1: is so out of our control and so deeply human.
Speaker 1: What would you say to someone my age.
Speaker 2: Gavi ra romasque fell more. He can respect me.
Speaker 3: To leave as long as you can with happiness, We
Speaker 3: love and we respect.
Speaker 1: These values happiness, love, respect are so basic, and yet
Speaker 1: they require daily practice, and sometimes we fail. But if
Speaker 1: I've learned anything from my grandmother, it's to get up
Speaker 1: every time you fall again and again and trust that
Speaker 1: these tenants will help keep her moving forward. It's been
Speaker 1: an honor for me and my mom to hear and
Speaker 1: share her story with all of you.
Speaker 3: It's beautiful to listen and translating some of the stories
Speaker 3: that I already know. The only thing that I can
Speaker 3: tell you is that I am honored to be her
Speaker 3: doing because she has lived her life with all the
Speaker 3: strength that she could, the best the way she could,
Speaker 3: and always with kindness and a smile.
Speaker 2: On her face.
Speaker 1: I've always known that my grandmother is courageous, and she's
Speaker 1: been able to adapt to so many challenges, even at
Speaker 1: times when she's lost everything, including the love of her life.
Speaker 1: In this conversation, though, I saw that adaptability in a
Speaker 1: new light. I noticed truly how much she has grown,
Speaker 1: even if it's been baby steps. She's not the same
Speaker 1: person she was when I was a kid, pushing myself
Speaker 1: to ask her new questions showed me that she's been
Speaker 1: listening to me and actually letting me and my ideas
Speaker 1: in all these years. It's huge that she was willing
Speaker 1: to have this honest conversation publicly too. Even if we
Speaker 1: still don't agree on everything, and we definitely don't, this
Speaker 1: conversation allowed us to witness each other in new ways.
Speaker 1: After the interview, in fact, we went and had lunch
Speaker 1: together and Maya Weila decided to ask me some point
Speaker 1: blank questions that she's never worked up the courage to
Speaker 1: ask before. There's this new layer that's now become added
Speaker 1: to our relationship. Asking hard questions and making space for
Speaker 1: honest answers is something that I've had to learn and
Speaker 1: I still practice. It doesn't always happen easy. This season,
Speaker 1: talking to West Virginia coal miners, a blackmail teacher in Baltimore,
Speaker 1: an artist with an invisible disability, a teen mom in
Speaker 1: New York, an indigenous leader, a LATINX trans teen, I
Speaker 1: was reminded again and again how much people can surprise you.
Speaker 1: That is, if you're able to set aside assumptions and
Speaker 1: biases that we all have and actually hold space for
Speaker 1: a person's owl humanity. Trying to do this, you will
Speaker 1: make mistakes. I make so many mistakes. Building bridges can
Speaker 1: sound like such a cliche, and sometimes it is hard
Speaker 1: to know what that really means. But I think admitting
Speaker 1: that you don't know is kind of actually the key.
Speaker 1: It's not just I'm here to build a bridge to you,
Speaker 1: it's something we actually have to figure out with another person.
Speaker 1: Let's build a bridge together for us. It's hard work,
Speaker 1: but I hope listening to these conversations provides a rough
Speaker 1: roadmap for you to try too. I hope that this
Speaker 1: podcast shows that the effort can really pay off. If
Speaker 1: you feel inspired, connected, or curious the season, I hope
Speaker 1: you'll pass on one of these stories. That's what makes
Speaker 1: my work worthwhile and what allows me to continue doing it.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to When You're Invisible.
Speaker 1: Please leave us a rating and a review to let
Speaker 1: us know what you think. You can find this episode
Speaker 1: and future ones on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. When You're Invisible is a
Speaker 1: production of iHeart Podcasts and my Podura podcast Network. I'm
Speaker 1: your creator and host, Maria Fernanda Viees. Our story editor
Speaker 1: is Dylan Hoyer. This season was produced by Me with
Speaker 1: additional production from Dylan Hoyer. Sound designed by Me Maria
Speaker 1: Fernandadiez with additional support from Dylan Hoyer. Mixing and mastering
Speaker 1: by Laurence Stump. Original theme music by Tony Bruno. Our
Speaker 1: executive producers are Anna Stump and Gistel Bantes. Special thanks
Speaker 1: to Pablo Cabrera and Arlene Santana.