WEBVTT - First Birthday!

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<v Speaker 1>Baby show. I don't have a rundown, so I had nothing. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you, well it wasn't on my side. People. Let's go.

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<v Speaker 2>Wind down with Jana Kramer and I'm Heart Radio Podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>One year and she's just Steve over here happy one

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<v Speaker 1>year Julee. Yes, I can't believe it's been a year

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<v Speaker 1>of doing this show.

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<v Speaker 3>I know, it actually seems like it went really fast.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems like one by really fast. But then also

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, are we still doing it? Like you guys

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<v Speaker 1>still want us?

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<v Speaker 3>Uh?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, please be sure sure do. That's where I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>my like, love me.

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<v Speaker 3>If I open an US magazine, we'll see why we

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<v Speaker 3>sure sure do. For Jenna and Michael, I mean get

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<v Speaker 3>no matter what they say now.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm honestly afraid to sometimes say things now because

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, well I don't want this to get picked up.

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<v Speaker 3>You e and thank you people, and thank you US

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<v Speaker 3>magazine for now listening. The last one when they talked

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<v Speaker 3>about Olivia col.

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<v Speaker 1>I died, I was like, oh my gosh, Michael, now

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<v Speaker 1>you're making the headline.

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<v Speaker 4>What I have to say about that?

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<v Speaker 1>Why apparently US and do care?

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<v Speaker 4>No one cares, No one else cares.

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<v Speaker 1>Well for it. I mean, people liked it, but no,

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<v Speaker 1>I just it's been a year. And thank you Amy,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you Mark, thank you Easton for for for dealing

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<v Speaker 1>with us for a year.

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<v Speaker 5>It's been our pleasure.

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<v Speaker 1>And thanks for Mike for for jumping on board with us.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that's why it definitely doesn't feel like a year,

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<v Speaker 4>because you know, I came on what September. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 4>it's like, you know, we've been doing this since September,

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<v Speaker 4>but you were doing it for several months before.

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<v Speaker 3>Now I've known you for so much longer. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>like I'm all mixed up in my time.

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<v Speaker 1>But I love it. This is our one year and

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to say thank you to everyone that

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<v Speaker 1>listens to the show, because we could not keep going

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<v Speaker 1>if we didn't have the downloads.

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<v Speaker 3>So and the emails they make me cry and laugh

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<v Speaker 3>and because I get them first and then I send

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<v Speaker 3>them to you guys, and it's like these people are

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<v Speaker 3>the coolest and they're so open and willing to share,

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<v Speaker 3>and it just even if you don't get a response,

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<v Speaker 3>we read them all and it means so much. I

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<v Speaker 3>try to respond to everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, our wind Down listeners are the best, so do

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<v Speaker 1>you want to thank you guys? What's the big announcement?

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<v Speaker 1>We have a big announcement.

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<v Speaker 5>Do you know that?

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<v Speaker 4>Do I need to make the big announcement?

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<v Speaker 3>Should Mark do the big announcement?

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<v Speaker 6>And everyone's like, okay, exciting, exciting, Well, wind Down with

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<v Speaker 6>Jana Kramer is getting a name change.

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<v Speaker 1>It is it's called basectomies with It's called sex talk

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<v Speaker 1>with Jana Huke. No, that's it. It's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>wind Down with Jana Kramer and my Cussinday.

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<v Speaker 3>A very big debate because I call you Michael and Mike,

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<v Speaker 3>like it just sort of switches off depending on kind

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<v Speaker 3>of like I don't know what what do you like?

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<v Speaker 1>He should be God?

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<v Speaker 4>Actually I actually go by John my middle name. What No.

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<v Speaker 4>I think it's because you know, you are affiliate affiliated

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<v Speaker 4>with Jenna and she always calls me Michael, right, So

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<v Speaker 4>that's how like you know me is specifically through Jena initially,

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<v Speaker 4>and she calls me Michael. No one else really calls

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<v Speaker 4>me Michael. I respond to whatever, what should we put

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<v Speaker 4>on the logo?

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<v Speaker 1>Because because we're changing the name.

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<v Speaker 4>Thing now, we have a dilemma, what do you want

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<v Speaker 4>to what do.

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<v Speaker 1>You want I don't know what I think, my think,

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<v Speaker 1>just it's your formal.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh no, I say gonna say.

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<v Speaker 5>Just Mike, the Mike cousin. It is hard to say

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<v Speaker 5>it should.

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<v Speaker 3>Be Michael, Okay, this is PTSD the visectomy, because nothing

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<v Speaker 3>was more uncomfortable than the fact that you'd have the

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<v Speaker 3>seck to me, and Jana was like, I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 3>we should have done it, and I'm.

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<v Speaker 4>Like, right, classic Janne.

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<v Speaker 3>I was in the room looking at Mark like this

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<v Speaker 3>is happening right now because he had it.

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<v Speaker 4>That's my wife. That is my wife. Everything she second

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<v Speaker 4>guests were every trip, every plane trip that we have,

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<v Speaker 4>we'll be sitting there waiting to get on the plane.

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<v Speaker 4>Jane's like, should we have done a different flight? Should

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<v Speaker 4>we have left like earlier? Should we have left later?

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<v Speaker 4>She can't. It's physically impossible for her not to make

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<v Speaker 4>her comment about should we have taken this?

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<v Speaker 3>Like it went wrong with your flight home from Scotland.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not gonna lie. Look, something looked bad when I

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<v Speaker 3>saw Janna on.

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<v Speaker 1>The floor of the airport. But I was on the floor.

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<v Speaker 3>I thought you were just sitting on the floor waiting.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I was. We were waiting and then the

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<v Speaker 1>entire time. I was like, we shouldn't have taken this flight,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm looking at other flights. He's like, you physically

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<v Speaker 1>cannot get like stay on the same flight.

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<v Speaker 4>She's like, should we just flown down straight out of

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<v Speaker 4>LA Because we didn't, because we went some Seattle then

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<v Speaker 4>went over.

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<v Speaker 1>We tried to save some money.

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<v Speaker 4>It was significantly cheaper. But then Jana is like, so

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<v Speaker 4>it's just I don't know, it's a pain.

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<v Speaker 1>It's hard, but I have a hard time sticking to

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<v Speaker 1>my TRAPA plants or Mike. What do you wanted to be? Ben?

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<v Speaker 4>I think Mark? I thought Mark. Bret brought up a

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<v Speaker 4>great point. Michael just flows better. And actually, when I

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<v Speaker 4>talk to people on the phone and asked me my name,

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<v Speaker 4>I say Michael Cosson. Because I've said Mike cost him

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<v Speaker 4>too much. People call me Mark, people call me Matt.

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<v Speaker 4>It's just because that back.

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<v Speaker 1>To back people call you Matt from Mike.

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<v Speaker 4>Don't ask me. I those people, it's their fault.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like the lady that yesterday the airport called me Juna.

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<v Speaker 1>I go, where in your right brain.

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<v Speaker 4>Does Jana wanted? This is the lady that takes our

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<v Speaker 4>ticket before we walk down the tarmac. Janda wanted to stop,

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<v Speaker 4>turn around and go ask her.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, just keep walking, you like it, says Jana,

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<v Speaker 1>So like, uh is a Juna. I didn't get that one.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll get I'll get Jana.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm with all the other back congratulations.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, So it's now officially wind down with Jana,

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<v Speaker 1>Kramer and Michael. I'd really stuck if we lost like

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of listeners.

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<v Speaker 3>So now if you two can just get into a

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<v Speaker 3>big fight and maybe jam fries, we're.

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<v Speaker 1>Off to a good start off to right. So you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I just feel like we you know, Mike's been on

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<v Speaker 1>since September obviously, because you know, Miss Jen is so

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<v Speaker 1>busy with Ryan and everything else, and you know, with

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<v Speaker 1>Michael and what we have and what we're doing and

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<v Speaker 1>wanting to do and helping people. And I'm like, it

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<v Speaker 1>shouldn't just be my name on there. So I do

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<v Speaker 1>love my.

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<v Speaker 4>Saying Diva Hatted saying I want my name on there too.

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<v Speaker 5>I actually.

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<v Speaker 3>He did not do that. I don't think.

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<v Speaker 1>I just I just care about him and I want him,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, to he he deserves to have his name

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<v Speaker 1>up there too.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Well, we're very grateful to you guys for being

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<v Speaker 3>so open with no filter, and please continue welcome.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll try, although I do get really scared.

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<v Speaker 4>Though we don't have to try, we just have to

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<v Speaker 4>try not to well.

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<v Speaker 1>Honestly, the funny thing is when you were talking about Olivia,

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<v Speaker 1>in my brain I was like, Okay, I know that

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<v Speaker 1>one of the writers from E listens to the show

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<v Speaker 1>because he's so sweet. And I was just like, I

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<v Speaker 1>have to be careful because if I say I don't

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<v Speaker 1>like her, that's going to be the like the headline

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<v Speaker 1>you said, but I don't not like her, though I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not saying I I'm just I have to be careful

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<v Speaker 1>with that, right politically correct her. I mean, you basically

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<v Speaker 1>called their a social climber, but that's fine. That was

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<v Speaker 1>your opinion. So anyways, let's get to what you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Like Michael says he wants to talk about the important stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>That was what you said. You were like, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>want to just talk about this celebrity. You wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>and this is you know again, since this is the

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<v Speaker 1>start of our show together, right, you really wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to this guy today and so Amy, our amazing producer,

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<v Speaker 1>made it happen. Do you want to kind of give

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<v Speaker 1>a backstory before we get them on the phone.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, And to Jana's point, it's it's, you know, we

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<v Speaker 4>want to talk about everything, but we realize what the

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<v Speaker 4>listeners want to hear and what they want us to

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<v Speaker 4>talk about. And so the guests that we're going to

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<v Speaker 4>have on the show today very important for me specifically

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<v Speaker 4>just because the names are Jason and Shelley Martinez. Jason

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<v Speaker 4>is an author. He wrote this book titled Worthy of

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<v Speaker 4>Her Trust.

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<v Speaker 1>Didn't Shelley write with him?

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<v Speaker 4>She did. Like Shelley's thoughts like throughout the book, she

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<v Speaker 4>like kind of put her thoughts, her true sense, her feelings,

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<v Speaker 4>and you know, wrote them down within the chapters. And

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<v Speaker 4>this was probably one of the first books in recent

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<v Speaker 4>memory that I've read like covered a cover multiple times.

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<v Speaker 4>And this book was given to me when I was

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<v Speaker 4>in rehab for sex addiction and really kind of sheeped

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<v Speaker 4>my whole mindset around recovery, around forgiveness, around trust, around

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<v Speaker 4>everything like this. This book impacted me the most out

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<v Speaker 4>of any book that I read when I was in treatment,

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<v Speaker 4>out of any workbook, out of any big book, out

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<v Speaker 4>of anything, this was the book that I always referred

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<v Speaker 4>back to. So personally, I'm very very excited and feel

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<v Speaker 4>very privileged to be able to talk to this guy

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<v Speaker 4>and his wife and express that to them and ask

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<v Speaker 4>them some questions.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm excited too, just from like this the wife's

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<v Speaker 1>standpoint with all of us too, and because there's been

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<v Speaker 1>so many people that email us and ask us how

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<v Speaker 1>we do it, and it's nice to see someone that's

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we've been doing it for what four years now, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>well three years in recovery, but you know, sixteen years

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<v Speaker 1>they've been married. So I'm I'm just super excited to

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<v Speaker 1>kind of pick their brain because there's I know a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of people that have questions as well on how

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<v Speaker 1>to get through things.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and some of the things that he talks about

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<v Speaker 4>this book that will ask them our art, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>are topics that, whether addiction or not, any relationship that

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<v Speaker 4>deals with any kind of infidelity you can definitely benefit

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<v Speaker 4>from for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>So are they in the phoner.

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<v Speaker 4>Eyah, they are.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll talk

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<v Speaker 5>to them.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, sounds good. All right, guys, it's a last week

0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.760
<v Speaker 1>to get your tickets. This week, the podcast tour Wind

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<v Speaker 1>Down is going on the road. We're going to be

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<v Speaker 1>in Alexandria, Virginia, May sixteenth. On the seventeenth, we're going

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<v Speaker 1>to be in New York, and on the eighteenth we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to be in Boston. So go to Janacramer dot

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<v Speaker 1>com to get your tickets. It's going to be an

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<v Speaker 1>awesome show. We're going to be talking winding down and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna sing a lot of new songs.

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<v Speaker 7>Hope to see you guys there.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe you've considered a Sleep Number bed but thought you

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't afford one, But can you really afford another restless night?

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<v Speaker 7>Sleep?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, there's never been a better time to save. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>proven quality sleep now during the Memorial Day sale, a

0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:47.360
<v Speaker 1>Queen three sixty smart bed starts at only nine ninety nine. Look,

0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:51.480
<v Speaker 1>so many couples disagree on mattress firmness, And honestly, I

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<v Speaker 1>laugh because Michael and I argued about the firmness of

0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:56.520
<v Speaker 1>our bed all the time.

0:10:56.600 --> 0:11:01.560
<v Speaker 7>I like softer, he likes harder. Wait, yes, let's just

0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:04.400
<v Speaker 7>keep it about the bed. But seriously, though, we like

0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:05.600
<v Speaker 7>different firmness.

0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so with a Sleep Number three sixty bed, we

0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.480
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0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.200
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0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:37.320
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0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:39.240
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0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:02.200
<v Speaker 7>It's time for spring cleaning.

0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.040
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0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.920
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0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:10.840
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0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:30.200
<v Speaker 4>You know.

0:12:30.240 --> 0:12:32.320
<v Speaker 1>For Jolie, it's great because she sees me brushing my

0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:34.360
<v Speaker 1>teeth and we kind of make it like a bedtime routine,

0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:36.520
<v Speaker 1>which is awesome. And there's that built in two minute

0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:38.599
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<v Speaker 7>And another thing is.

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<v Speaker 1>That you're actually supposed to change the toothbrush heads every

0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.480
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0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.000
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0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.040
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<v Speaker 1>the tooth bread So Quip is one of the first

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0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:06.599
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0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:12.240
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<v Speaker 1>Janna g e t qu ip dot com slash Jana. Okay,

0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.640
<v Speaker 1>so before we get them on the phone, though anything

0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:24.640
<v Speaker 1>from Scotland.

0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:27.840
<v Speaker 4>We want to talk about how unbelievably amazing it was.

0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:29.840
<v Speaker 1>That was the best trip ever. I will say this.

0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I'd put this on my Instagram. But

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.920
<v Speaker 1>we we live our lives for our kids, and I

0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.760
<v Speaker 1>sometimes think that we forget to kind of nourish our relationship.

0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:47.200
<v Speaker 1>And that was such a connecting trip without trying, without yeah,

0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 1>without forcing it.

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:49.800
<v Speaker 4>Without forcing it, without being like we have to do

0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.240
<v Speaker 4>this and we have to do that. And yeah, like

0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:54.760
<v Speaker 4>we just we didn't even end up having sex.

0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:59.400
<v Speaker 1>We didn't. You tried, Yeah, you tried. He came in

0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.040
<v Speaker 1>the room like because the time change was like really

0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:03.440
<v Speaker 1>throwing me off to you. I was super tired, but

0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:06.400
<v Speaker 1>you came in around like ten thirty. No, yeah, around

0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:07.960
<v Speaker 1>like ten thirty eleven and you're a try and I

0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:12.280
<v Speaker 1>was like, back off, Bola, Yeah, you're happening a pretty

0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.280
<v Speaker 1>But it didn't like we didn't need to wasn't even

0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.520
<v Speaker 1>about that. We went for the most oh by the

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.720
<v Speaker 1>way mark, we went for a walk in the woods,

0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:23.560
<v Speaker 1>in the forest and Michael fell in a waterfall. Oh

0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.480
<v Speaker 1>it was all for the picture and I was not falling. No, no,

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.240
<v Speaker 1>he wanted to go down in the middle of the waterfall.

0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:31.760
<v Speaker 4>Like step on this rock forgine to take a picture

0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:32.320
<v Speaker 4>from this bridge.

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Still get seriously injured doing this stuff for the selfies, I.

0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.600
<v Speaker 1>Know, yeah there, And all of a sudden he slips

0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.000
<v Speaker 1>on moss.

0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:41.480
<v Speaker 4>Which I knew. I was like, okay, this is wet moss,

0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:43.880
<v Speaker 4>It's going to be slippery. And I still slipped and

0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.240
<v Speaker 4>fell luckily car so he.

0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Gets like halfway. I'm screaming like Mia, Michael, oh no,

0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.280
<v Speaker 1>And I mean I thought for sure he was going

0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.120
<v Speaker 1>all the way down. But it was the most. It

0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.160
<v Speaker 1>was the most beautiful walk back to the castle. It

0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.960
<v Speaker 1>was just it was like out of Dress Park, how

0:15:01.000 --> 0:15:04.040
<v Speaker 1>beautiful and green and just I mean, Lord of the.

0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.960
<v Speaker 4>Rings meets Jurassic Park meets like a fairy tale.

0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 1>It was incredible. It was honestly the best and I

0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.040
<v Speaker 1>I want to go back there for our ten years

0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.280
<v Speaker 1>because you can rent out the castle. It's called the

0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.680
<v Speaker 1>Dunsk Estate and you can rent out the castle and

0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.160
<v Speaker 1>there's activities. It's a castle.

0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:22.200
<v Speaker 4>It's in the state.

0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:23.280
<v Speaker 1>You don't think it's a castle.

0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:24.360
<v Speaker 4>It's in a state.

0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.520
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I think it's a castle. They say it's a castle.

0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:28.560
<v Speaker 4>They say a state.

0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:31.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't want to show mark a picture. It's a castle.

0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm not sure what what determines that it looks like.

0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.240
<v Speaker 4>And analystairs called it. I mean they never claimed it

0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:40.440
<v Speaker 4>to be a castle. It's in the state. It's a

0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:41.000
<v Speaker 4>family state.

0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:42.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean it looks like a castle.

0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:43.880
<v Speaker 4>It's gorgeous.

0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you don't think it looks like a castle? Really?

0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:49.560
<v Speaker 4>No? This is what is it called?

0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:52.440
<v Speaker 1>Look it up Dunske Estate. It looks like a castle.

0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:56.880
<v Speaker 1>U n s k e y what's key? It's key?

0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.800
<v Speaker 1>Are you still in Scotland, wifey struggle city?

0:16:00.920 --> 0:16:04.120
<v Speaker 5>Okay, I think I think I think you agree with.

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Here's what it says. Dunsky Estate is an Edwardian castle

0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:13.080
<v Speaker 2>well self catering accommodations, holiday cottages, blah blah blah, interesting

0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:14.760
<v Speaker 2>Dunsky estate private castle.

0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it looks like a castle. It is a castle.

0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:17.560
<v Speaker 5>That's really awesome.

0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.200
<v Speaker 1>It was literally the most amazing. I will never forget

0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:21.640
<v Speaker 1>that wedding.

0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:23.800
<v Speaker 5>How long were you there for?

0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:24.560
<v Speaker 1>Three days?

0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.560
<v Speaker 4>Thursday? Really? I mean we were there Thursday, but that.

0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Was just that was We were delirious the entire time.

0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Michael's like driving two hours from the Glasgow airport and

0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:33.720
<v Speaker 1>he's like, I'm.

0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:35.240
<v Speaker 4>In a struggle city. Yeah, it was.

0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:36.360
<v Speaker 1>It was brutal Friday.

0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.440
<v Speaker 4>So really Friday Saturday was like two full awake.

0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:40.640
<v Speaker 5>And no sex the whole time.

0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:44.920
<v Speaker 4>Huh No, we just Janna went to bed earlier than

0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 4>really everybody every night, and I just I wasn't I

0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 4>didn't want to go to bed. I just wanted to.

0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:51.960
<v Speaker 4>Like one night she went to bed and everyone else

0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:53.600
<v Speaker 4>was doing like a whiskey tasting. I sat in this

0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.720
<v Speaker 4>it's like their bar room in the castle. You kind

0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.000
<v Speaker 4>of see it. It kind of felt like a uh

0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:03.720
<v Speaker 4>like an old timey like country club locker room type

0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.040
<v Speaker 4>of field, just you know, big beautiful chairs and couches

0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.960
<v Speaker 4>and a big, you know, wood burning fireplace with a

0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 4>bar behind you and just I just sat there. I

0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.639
<v Speaker 4>just sat there by myself, so relaxing, just drinking a

0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:16.680
<v Speaker 4>coffee and having a drink and looking out the over

0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.199
<v Speaker 4>like out the window over the estate. It was. It

0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:20.000
<v Speaker 4>was unbelievable.

0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.560
<v Speaker 1>I did have one panic attack the first night we

0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.760
<v Speaker 1>were there. We hadn't slept in thirty six hours, and

0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:31.080
<v Speaker 1>I woke up at eleven o'clock and everyone was still up,

0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:32.680
<v Speaker 1>and so then I started freaking out, like, oh my gosh,

0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:34.800
<v Speaker 1>the closest hospital is like two hours away, and oh

0:17:34.800 --> 0:17:37.000
<v Speaker 1>my gosh, what if I pass out? And this and that,

0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:38.639
<v Speaker 1>and then I was finally like, I looked out the

0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:42.320
<v Speaker 1>window and I just I got a cold compress, which

0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:44.639
<v Speaker 1>always helps me with my anxiety. And then I just

0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:47.159
<v Speaker 1>laid in bed did some deep breathing, and I was like,

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm in a beautiful place. I'm okay. And then I

0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:50.320
<v Speaker 1>went to bed and I was fine the rest of

0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:50.640
<v Speaker 1>the trip.

0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:52.240
<v Speaker 4>Thanks for not waking me up.

0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:52.880
<v Speaker 1>You're welcome.

0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:53.760
<v Speaker 4>I appreciate that.

0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Should we get them on the line, yeah them both like, okay,

0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.440
<v Speaker 1>right now, Jason Shelley, I'm here.

0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:04.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Hi, how are you great?

0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:05.199
<v Speaker 8>How are you?

0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 1>We're good. We are so excited to have you on

0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:12.240
<v Speaker 1>wind Down. We really appreciate it. Mike has been chatting

0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:13.760
<v Speaker 1>with the producer for a while to get you on

0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:15.840
<v Speaker 1>the show, so we're super excited that you both are on,

0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:18.440
<v Speaker 1>and we just we feel very fortunate.

0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:21.560
<v Speaker 4>Oh, thank you for having it, of course, and again

0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:23.600
<v Speaker 4>thank you for making the time. And we gave before

0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:24.920
<v Speaker 4>we got you guys on, I kind of gave the

0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:29.280
<v Speaker 4>listeners a little backstory of you know, the book where

0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.359
<v Speaker 4>they're worthy of her trust and the impact for me

0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:34.800
<v Speaker 4>with that book, and I just wanted to share that

0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:39.240
<v Speaker 4>with you guys too, because I admitted myself into rehab

0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:44.440
<v Speaker 4>for sex addiction back in twenty sixteen. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:51.520
<v Speaker 4>twenty sixteen, summer of twenty sixteen, and y'all's book was

0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:53.240
<v Speaker 4>with all the literature and all the stuff that I

0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:56.040
<v Speaker 4>read when I was in treatment, y'all's book was the

0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.560
<v Speaker 4>book that really shifted and was able to change my life,

0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:04.719
<v Speaker 4>change my mindset, and change just how I thought about things.

0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:06.760
<v Speaker 4>You know, it was one of it was the first

0:19:06.760 --> 0:19:08.720
<v Speaker 4>book and I don't even know how long that I

0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:12.959
<v Speaker 4>read cover to cover multiple times. And a buddy of

0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.560
<v Speaker 4>mine that were a guy that I became close with

0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:18.800
<v Speaker 4>in treatment that still talked to to this day. Him

0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:20.560
<v Speaker 4>and I when we got out of treatment, we always

0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.040
<v Speaker 4>referred back to y'all's book and remember what they said here,

0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.000
<v Speaker 4>remember what they said there? And it was it really was.

0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:29.480
<v Speaker 4>I just want to thank you guys for writing that,

0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.399
<v Speaker 4>for being willing to open up like that, because it

0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.680
<v Speaker 4>just for me, If it's just one person, y'all's book

0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:39.680
<v Speaker 4>changed my life for the better, which ultimately changed Jane

0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.560
<v Speaker 4>and I's life because I was able to think and

0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:44.400
<v Speaker 4>act a different way because of it.

0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:50.040
<v Speaker 9>Wow, man, thank you, Thank you guys. That's really cool.

0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:53.520
<v Speaker 1>So I guess I want to start with Shelley. Shelley,

0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:58.600
<v Speaker 1>so you you confronted Jason right about infidelity?

0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:00.840
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, so we did.

0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Was it just something where you just you kind of knew,

0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.680
<v Speaker 1>like you knew in your heart of hearts? Because a

0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:08.320
<v Speaker 1>lot of people asked me, They're like, how did you know?

0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:09.800
<v Speaker 1>How did you know? And for me, it was just

0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.040
<v Speaker 1>I just had that gut feeling. There was a lot

0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.240
<v Speaker 1>of things that were, you know, he was acting different

0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.560
<v Speaker 1>on and there was just something where in my gut

0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.240
<v Speaker 1>I just knew something was going on, and I don't know.

0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:22.360
<v Speaker 1>Was that kind of the same experience for you or

0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:24.000
<v Speaker 1>did you? Did you find things?

0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:28.920
<v Speaker 8>Or yeah, you know I I actually I really thought

0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:32.639
<v Speaker 8>Jason only had eyes for me. So in my gut,

0:20:32.720 --> 0:20:36.320
<v Speaker 8>I knew something was off. Even the day we got married,

0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:38.640
<v Speaker 8>as I was walking down the aisle, I knew deep

0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:43.040
<v Speaker 8>down something wasn't right. But I never ever thought it

0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:47.760
<v Speaker 8>would be betrayal. So, but a couple of things that happened,

0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:52.800
<v Speaker 8>and at one point Jason had confessed to inappropriate relationship at.

0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:53.199
<v Speaker 9>Work, And.

0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.840
<v Speaker 8>Again a couple of other things happened which led me

0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:04.080
<v Speaker 8>to confronting Jason and and so so yeah, it was

0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.240
<v Speaker 8>I really never thought this would be my story. I

0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:08.840
<v Speaker 8>thought it would be you know, the gal down the

0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:11.320
<v Speaker 8>street or Homer, but not my story.

0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:13.199
<v Speaker 1>No, I hear you on that. And Jason, did you

0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.760
<v Speaker 1>did you? You know how long was that recovery process

0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:18.520
<v Speaker 1>for you? I mean, I know with Michael it's you know,

0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:22.720
<v Speaker 1>obviously we've had our slips and stuff and it's been difficult.

0:21:22.720 --> 0:21:25.280
<v Speaker 1>But was it something where you were like, Okay, I

0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:27.639
<v Speaker 1>need to I have kids and I have a family,

0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:30.359
<v Speaker 1>and I'm going to you know, go through with us

0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:34.880
<v Speaker 1>and be straight this way.

0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:37.120
<v Speaker 9>You know, it was a little different for me in

0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:40.280
<v Speaker 9>that we were early in our marriage. We were only

0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:42.320
<v Speaker 9>a few years into our marriage. We had no kids.

0:21:42.520 --> 0:21:46.480
<v Speaker 9>Oh wow, we had no I mean Shelley Sully made

0:21:46.520 --> 0:21:49.240
<v Speaker 9>three times as much money as I did. We didn't

0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:51.000
<v Speaker 9>have a whole lot of accets to our name. Like,

0:21:51.080 --> 0:21:54.560
<v Speaker 9>it would have been really easy to just cut ties

0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:59.000
<v Speaker 9>and go separate ways, and I think it would have

0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:01.679
<v Speaker 9>been really easy for Shelley to do that. For me,

0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:06.040
<v Speaker 9>the beginning was really wonky, and that sometimes I was

0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.080
<v Speaker 9>trying to change and doing the work for me, and

0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:12.960
<v Speaker 9>sometimes it was just to save our marriage. And you know,

0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:16.159
<v Speaker 9>my motivation kind of it kind of it kind of

0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:18.840
<v Speaker 9>what would you call that, like shifted back and forth

0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:20.280
<v Speaker 9>between those Does that make sense?

0:22:20.320 --> 0:22:22.840
<v Speaker 4>Oh? Yeah, And I.

0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:24.800
<v Speaker 9>Don't think that's wrong or bad today. Some days it

0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:28.240
<v Speaker 9>was for good motivation. Sometimes it's for better motivation. But

0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:33.280
<v Speaker 9>ultimately it landed at I have to change because I've

0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:36.760
<v Speaker 9>got to be a different man, and if that results

0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:41.200
<v Speaker 9>in Shelley seeing something worth staying with me, then then

0:22:41.240 --> 0:22:44.399
<v Speaker 9>that's kind of like the megaphonus at that point. But

0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:46.879
<v Speaker 9>I ultimately realized I had to.

0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:53.000
<v Speaker 4>Change absolutely, And you know, I was actually rereading some

0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:55.919
<v Speaker 4>of the earlier chapters in the book this morning, just

0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:58.439
<v Speaker 4>to kind of refresh my memory, and just reading the

0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:01.119
<v Speaker 4>part of you know, Shelley, you justis covering and Jason

0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.000
<v Speaker 4>your feelings after that, it just reading that it just

0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:06.560
<v Speaker 4>brought up my own experience all over again. And it's

0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:10.560
<v Speaker 4>amazing just the insanity and the pain that goes along

0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:13.240
<v Speaker 4>with all of that. And I'm sure with you guys,

0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:15.800
<v Speaker 4>even being as far along as you are in this,

0:23:16.480 --> 0:23:21.119
<v Speaker 4>you know, you can still respect the pain from a

0:23:21.200 --> 0:23:23.680
<v Speaker 4>sense of you know, knowing where you guys are now

0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:27.600
<v Speaker 4>compared to them, you know, I mean, how impactful, how

0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 4>impactful it still is. And there's one thing, one of

0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:33.880
<v Speaker 4>the many things that I love about y'all's book is

0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:36.919
<v Speaker 4>the whole debunking the myths. The eight myths that you

0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:39.040
<v Speaker 4>debunk kind of early in the part one of the

0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:42.440
<v Speaker 4>book is something that you know, for our listeners, you know,

0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:45.359
<v Speaker 4>obviously not everyone out there is a sex addict. That

0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:48.000
<v Speaker 4>you know, any relationship that deals with infidelity doesn't mean

0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:51.080
<v Speaker 4>that there's addiction attached to it. And what I love

0:23:51.119 --> 0:23:56.000
<v Speaker 4>about those myths is that it's not really specified toward addiction. Obviously,

0:23:56.119 --> 0:23:58.560
<v Speaker 4>you know you stuffer from addiction. I suffer from addiction,

0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:02.760
<v Speaker 4>so we relate, but that aren't even in an addictive program,

0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:05.119
<v Speaker 4>can relate to those two and one of them for

0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:08.199
<v Speaker 4>me that I remember telling so many therapists into Jana,

0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:10.960
<v Speaker 4>which is the second one. Just for an example that

0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:13.719
<v Speaker 4>you talk about, is you know, for you is not

0:24:13.880 --> 0:24:16.200
<v Speaker 4>acting out again is all it takes to build trust

0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:20.280
<v Speaker 4>and that it's almost laughable to me when I say

0:24:20.320 --> 0:24:24.200
<v Speaker 4>that out loud, because that's how I viewed relationships, That's

0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:27.679
<v Speaker 4>how I viewed initially building back trust with Janna. I

0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:30.439
<v Speaker 4>always told myself it's like, if I didn't act out,

0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:32.359
<v Speaker 4>if I didn't do the things that I did, what

0:24:32.400 --> 0:24:34.280
<v Speaker 4>would I ever fight about with Janna, or what would

0:24:34.280 --> 0:24:36.600
<v Speaker 4>I ever fight about with any spouse or partner or

0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:39.240
<v Speaker 4>girlfriend if I didn't if I didn't get caught and

0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:41.680
<v Speaker 4>do those things. And then with you know, Jana and

0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:45.040
<v Speaker 4>I trying to reconcile and everything, I was saying the

0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:46.920
<v Speaker 4>same thing to myself in the back of my mind.

0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:49.199
<v Speaker 4>I even used this to you Huntingdon's as an excuse.

0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:51.359
<v Speaker 4>It's like, Okay, you're complaining about this, but I'm not

0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:53.040
<v Speaker 4>acting out totally.

0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:56.199
<v Speaker 9>And you know, to your point, all those myths that

0:24:56.240 --> 0:25:00.000
<v Speaker 9>I write about in there are those role the justifications

0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:03.280
<v Speaker 9>and rationalizations that I use, right, what other myths?

0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:06.879
<v Speaker 1>So for what other myths that our listeners are there

0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:08.000
<v Speaker 1>that you write about.

0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:13.600
<v Speaker 9>Things like, you know, time heals all wounds, We'll get

0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:17.280
<v Speaker 9>through this when she decides to forgive. You know, those

0:25:17.280 --> 0:25:19.160
<v Speaker 9>are just a couple where those are just the things

0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:23.600
<v Speaker 9>I was telling myself because I was in such a

0:25:23.680 --> 0:25:27.200
<v Speaker 9>shameful place and in such a defensive posture early on,

0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:31.040
<v Speaker 9>you know, I would say snarky things like that that really,

0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:35.439
<v Speaker 9>at large our culture believes and like that's like, you know,

0:25:35.480 --> 0:25:38.960
<v Speaker 9>those are common sayings in the context of marital relationships

0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:43.359
<v Speaker 9>that are experiencing difficulty, and I hung on those and

0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:45.919
<v Speaker 9>tried to use those as leverage to get Shully to

0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:48.480
<v Speaker 9>do things differently and treat me nicer and that kind

0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 9>of stuff, right, And in retrospect, what I realized now,

0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:54.439
<v Speaker 9>you know, fifteen and a half years later, is I

0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:56.439
<v Speaker 9>was just trying to make me feel better and I

0:25:56.560 --> 0:26:00.159
<v Speaker 9>was really disregarding her pain and her process.

0:25:59.640 --> 0:26:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Of green There's no question then, absolutely hundred percent. I

0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:06.200
<v Speaker 1>mean Mike did the same thing. It was honestly for us.

0:26:06.280 --> 0:26:09.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he would be there would be zero empathy

0:26:09.880 --> 0:26:11.840
<v Speaker 1>and defensive because in his brain he was just like, well,

0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:13.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm not acting out, so but I'm like and at

0:26:13.840 --> 0:26:15.080
<v Speaker 1>the end of it, I remember we went to a

0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:18.600
<v Speaker 1>therapist and I said, me, divorcing you now isn't going

0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:21.359
<v Speaker 1>to be because of the affairs. It's going to be

0:26:21.359 --> 0:26:23.320
<v Speaker 1>because of how you're treating me now, with the no

0:26:23.440 --> 0:26:28.280
<v Speaker 1>empathy and the defensiveness and just that that, you know,

0:26:28.640 --> 0:26:31.960
<v Speaker 1>the anger that it's you. You're not like feeling my pain,

0:26:32.000 --> 0:26:34.040
<v Speaker 1>You're not there with me, and it's like you're not

0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:36.159
<v Speaker 1>You're not sitting there with me and empathizing with me.

0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:39.000
<v Speaker 1>You're just saying, well, I'm not cheating. So and that

0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:41.520
<v Speaker 1>was that was I'm like this, I this is why

0:26:41.520 --> 0:26:43.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to divorce you. Michael, like, don't you see

0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:44.959
<v Speaker 1>that it's not because it's not because of the affairs.

0:26:44.960 --> 0:26:48.440
<v Speaker 1>It's because of how you're acting right now, which was which.

0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:50.960
<v Speaker 4>His zone was harder to accept because then it's it

0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:54.920
<v Speaker 4>feels even more personal because there's not a tangible thing

0:26:55.000 --> 0:26:58.480
<v Speaker 4>that I'm maybe a tangible event that happened, you know,

0:26:58.520 --> 0:27:00.480
<v Speaker 4>it's just a it's just a series of actions or

0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:03.160
<v Speaker 4>reactions over time. That's causing her to feel that way,

0:27:03.840 --> 0:27:06.240
<v Speaker 4>which is almost more personal. And Shelley, I have a

0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:07.959
<v Speaker 4>question for you. You know, one of the myths is,

0:27:08.400 --> 0:27:10.280
<v Speaker 4>you know, he wouldn't do this if he really loved me.

0:27:11.080 --> 0:27:13.560
<v Speaker 4>Just for you know, listeners and whether male or female

0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:15.520
<v Speaker 4>that are dealing with that, like, what's your advice to them,

0:27:15.560 --> 0:27:17.800
<v Speaker 4>Like what was your mindset like to coming to that

0:27:17.840 --> 0:27:21.000
<v Speaker 4>place of realizing, Okay, oh he does still love me.

0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:23.159
<v Speaker 4>Just because he did these things doesn't mean he doesn't

0:27:23.200 --> 0:27:23.879
<v Speaker 4>he didn't love me.

0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:28.240
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I mean that was that was really That's a

0:27:28.359 --> 0:27:33.040
<v Speaker 8>huge part of my process was because I really thought

0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:37.280
<v Speaker 8>and Jana, I don't know how this how this worked

0:27:37.320 --> 0:27:40.840
<v Speaker 8>out for you. It's and let me just kind of

0:27:40.840 --> 0:27:44.440
<v Speaker 8>seguey for a second, Jana, you are beautiful. I mean

0:27:44.480 --> 0:27:48.560
<v Speaker 8>you are so gorgeous. And so there's a part of

0:27:48.600 --> 0:27:51.800
<v Speaker 8>me like, whenever you know, we were invited to be

0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:55.880
<v Speaker 8>on your show, I'm like, oh my gosh, Like if

0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:59.879
<v Speaker 8>this could happen to you, this could happen to anyone,

0:28:00.840 --> 0:28:06.080
<v Speaker 8>Because for me, I felt like I wasn't enough for Jason,

0:28:06.640 --> 0:28:09.160
<v Speaker 8>and I felt like if I had been I mean

0:28:09.160 --> 0:28:11.159
<v Speaker 8>I kind of went through the list, you know, like

0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:14.080
<v Speaker 8>I'm not enough. If I were smarter, had bigger boot,

0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:15.760
<v Speaker 8>smaller boots, bigger butt, smaller.

0:28:15.440 --> 0:28:16.240
<v Speaker 9>Butt, whatever, you know.

0:28:16.960 --> 0:28:21.960
<v Speaker 8>But ultimately where I landed is if I had been sexier,

0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:25.439
<v Speaker 8>this would not be my story and this is my

0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:30.280
<v Speaker 8>fault because I'm not sexy enough. Fast forward when Jason

0:28:30.280 --> 0:28:33.239
<v Speaker 8>and I went to the first therapist when we you know,

0:28:33.320 --> 0:28:36.680
<v Speaker 8>after I confronted him and we shared, Hey, here's where

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:39.240
<v Speaker 8>we're at, here's what's going on, he turned and looked

0:28:39.240 --> 0:28:42.000
<v Speaker 8>at me and said, Okay, Shelly, why don't you share now?

0:28:42.080 --> 0:28:45.480
<v Speaker 8>What did you do to cause Jason to make these choices?

0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:48.840
<v Speaker 8>And so that was just the fuel to the fire

0:28:49.600 --> 0:28:53.600
<v Speaker 8>of me feeling like this is my fault and if

0:28:54.480 --> 0:28:58.040
<v Speaker 8>and I know what you asked Mike was more about like,

0:28:58.240 --> 0:29:02.120
<v Speaker 8>you know, clearly he doesn't love me or he wouldn't

0:29:02.160 --> 0:29:05.640
<v Speaker 8>have done this. And so again, this was a huge

0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:10.760
<v Speaker 8>part of my journey recognizing that these choices Jason made,

0:29:11.480 --> 0:29:14.600
<v Speaker 8>while they did affect me and caused a ton of pain,

0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:19.680
<v Speaker 8>they actually were not about me. These were about holes

0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:25.000
<v Speaker 8>in his heart that and coping mechanisms and ways that

0:29:25.040 --> 0:29:27.880
<v Speaker 8>he was trying to deal with the pain in his heart.

0:29:28.880 --> 0:29:33.480
<v Speaker 8>In an illegitimate way, and it started well before he

0:29:33.600 --> 0:29:37.080
<v Speaker 8>even met me, Yeah, and started in his childhood where

0:29:37.080 --> 0:29:44.800
<v Speaker 8>he started to use sex and sexuality to medicate. But again,

0:29:44.880 --> 0:29:49.680
<v Speaker 8>it really took me a long time to get to

0:29:49.800 --> 0:29:55.040
<v Speaker 8>a place of groundedness and oh, yes, this has hurt me,

0:29:55.240 --> 0:29:58.680
<v Speaker 8>but this is not about my inadequacies.

0:29:59.000 --> 0:30:01.240
<v Speaker 1>I think that har thing though for women, because I

0:30:01.240 --> 0:30:03.440
<v Speaker 1>mean I felt the same thing, you know the first time.

0:30:03.480 --> 0:30:05.080
<v Speaker 1>I was just like, it's because I didn't have big

0:30:05.160 --> 0:30:07.880
<v Speaker 1>enough boobs, or because I didn't dress sexy enough, or

0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:11.720
<v Speaker 1>because I didn't wear the sexy launderda bed and so

0:30:11.800 --> 0:30:14.240
<v Speaker 1>it was just I think that's where every woman goes

0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:17.960
<v Speaker 1>is because we don't we immediately go they were you know,

0:30:17.960 --> 0:30:20.400
<v Speaker 1>we weren't sexy enough, or we didn't have that sex appeal,

0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:24.959
<v Speaker 1>which is unfortunate that we go there. But it's about

0:30:25.680 --> 0:30:27.360
<v Speaker 1>going on the other side of it, you know, where

0:30:27.400 --> 0:30:29.320
<v Speaker 1>we're at now, knowing that it has nothing to do

0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:32.080
<v Speaker 1>with how we look or or anything like.

0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:37.160
<v Speaker 9>That, and that too. Can I say something else about that, creez.

0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:41.240
<v Speaker 9>You know, I perpetuated that too because some of the story.

0:30:42.080 --> 0:30:44.280
<v Speaker 9>So basically, when everything hit the fan for us and

0:30:44.720 --> 0:30:48.080
<v Speaker 9>Hulley confronted me. That was really the second time that

0:30:48.120 --> 0:30:51.800
<v Speaker 9>she had done that. She had done it nine months prior,

0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:55.720
<v Speaker 9>and I had lied and made excuses and then turned

0:30:55.760 --> 0:30:58.280
<v Speaker 9>it on her. And I had told her, hey, if

0:30:58.280 --> 0:31:00.200
<v Speaker 9>you would have more sex than have different sets, and

0:31:00.400 --> 0:31:04.240
<v Speaker 9>especially if you would initiate sex, then we'll be okay.

0:31:04.720 --> 0:31:07.600
<v Speaker 9>So she kind of bought all of that lie and

0:31:07.640 --> 0:31:12.040
<v Speaker 9>then and then over that nine month period, she you know,

0:31:12.160 --> 0:31:15.480
<v Speaker 9>she changed her wardrobe, changed her the way she talked,

0:31:15.520 --> 0:31:17.520
<v Speaker 9>the way she dressed, the way she did things where

0:31:17.560 --> 0:31:20.840
<v Speaker 9>we went on vacation. I mean that she went through

0:31:21.040 --> 0:31:24.000
<v Speaker 9>and jumping through all the hoops trying to make herself

0:31:24.120 --> 0:31:25.560
<v Speaker 9>different to fix me.

0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:26.400
<v Speaker 4>Yep.

0:31:27.040 --> 0:31:28.880
<v Speaker 9>And so I think for Scholey and Angel you can

0:31:28.880 --> 0:31:30.840
<v Speaker 9>speak to this. I think when we hit the fan

0:31:30.960 --> 0:31:34.760
<v Speaker 9>for real and we started into recovery, Sholey ultimately moved

0:31:34.760 --> 0:31:38.080
<v Speaker 9>to a place where she was like, I've already tried

0:31:38.120 --> 0:31:41.160
<v Speaker 9>to change me, and so that it almost like gave

0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:43.880
<v Speaker 9>her a handhold to say, I've already tried to change

0:31:43.880 --> 0:31:45.800
<v Speaker 9>me and it didn't work, so now you've got to

0:31:45.880 --> 0:31:49.680
<v Speaker 9>change you. That was really important for us.

0:31:51.120 --> 0:31:55.680
<v Speaker 4>I think, you know, that's just you saying that Jason

0:31:56.440 --> 0:31:59.080
<v Speaker 4>is a testament to how impactful just listening you talk

0:31:59.120 --> 0:32:01.880
<v Speaker 4>the way you talk, it sounds like the hook, you know.

0:32:02.000 --> 0:32:05.600
<v Speaker 4>And for me, what was great about like how you

0:32:05.760 --> 0:32:07.760
<v Speaker 4>how you deliver things and you talk about things, is

0:32:09.160 --> 0:32:11.040
<v Speaker 4>you have like a this this innate way to like

0:32:11.240 --> 0:32:15.160
<v Speaker 4>softly call out the mail, you know, the kind of

0:32:15.160 --> 0:32:18.200
<v Speaker 4>call call us out, but it almost in in like

0:32:18.240 --> 0:32:20.960
<v Speaker 4>an inviting or respectful way where it's not a shameful way.

0:32:22.000 --> 0:32:24.560
<v Speaker 4>And so you like you're just saying, you know, I

0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:27.040
<v Speaker 4>because I did the same thing to Janna. I tried

0:32:27.080 --> 0:32:29.040
<v Speaker 4>to put it on her, like well, why don't you

0:32:29.080 --> 0:32:30.400
<v Speaker 4>wear this? Or why don't you wear that?

0:32:30.640 --> 0:32:32.720
<v Speaker 1>I'll never forget that. That was the worst thing ever.

0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:33.040
<v Speaker 4>Yep.

0:32:33.280 --> 0:32:35.040
<v Speaker 1>We were sitting in a restaurant and I was like,

0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:36.840
<v Speaker 1>why don't why won't you sleep with me? And he's

0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:38.800
<v Speaker 1>just like, well, why don't you Why don't you come

0:32:38.840 --> 0:32:41.240
<v Speaker 1>to the bedroom with something on rather than just a

0:32:41.240 --> 0:32:43.520
<v Speaker 1>big old T shirt? And I just remember sitting in

0:32:43.520 --> 0:32:46.440
<v Speaker 1>the restaurant and bawling, and I left the restaurant because

0:32:46.440 --> 0:32:49.000
<v Speaker 1>I was just like I thought that that was like sorry,

0:32:49.000 --> 0:32:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Eve chegers me about like I thought that was you know, sexy.

0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:57.600
<v Speaker 4>I'm sorry yeah, but you know, I'm really sorry that,

0:32:57.880 --> 0:33:00.520
<v Speaker 4>you know, that's one of those things that I've appalled

0:33:01.240 --> 0:33:03.000
<v Speaker 4>tenfold to Jana, and I see the pain in it

0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:06.240
<v Speaker 4>right now, and I feel the pain because the unfortunate

0:33:06.240 --> 0:33:08.040
<v Speaker 4>thing is, and Jason, I know you can relate to

0:33:08.080 --> 0:33:09.760
<v Speaker 4>this is the stuff that we said, or the stuff

0:33:09.800 --> 0:33:12.040
<v Speaker 4>that I said to Jana, none of that was even

0:33:12.080 --> 0:33:15.400
<v Speaker 4>true when really the thing that I love the most,

0:33:15.440 --> 0:33:20.680
<v Speaker 4>And now what's unfortunate is I encourage like my favorite

0:33:20.680 --> 0:33:22.400
<v Speaker 4>thing that she wears is a big T shirt to bed.

0:33:22.760 --> 0:33:26.920
<v Speaker 4>That's literally my genuinely and completely true, like that's my

0:33:27.040 --> 0:33:32.640
<v Speaker 4>favorite thing she wears. But unfortunately, especially early on, because

0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:36.320
<v Speaker 4>of the damage that I did in that moment and

0:33:36.320 --> 0:33:39.040
<v Speaker 4>traumatize her from that, like it's hard for her, it's

0:33:39.080 --> 0:33:42.760
<v Speaker 4>hard for her to accept my act my truth now,

0:33:42.840 --> 0:33:45.760
<v Speaker 4>you know. And so we just put ourselves in the situation.

0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:48.480
<v Speaker 4>I put myself in the situation where now I'm I

0:33:48.520 --> 0:33:51.840
<v Speaker 4>have to like fight against my old self and what

0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:54.600
<v Speaker 4>I said and my habits and behaviors and convince her like, no,

0:33:54.720 --> 0:33:58.160
<v Speaker 4>this is actually genuine, this is actually true. Yeah.

0:33:58.560 --> 0:34:04.200
<v Speaker 8>One of the most healing things has been when I

0:34:04.280 --> 0:34:08.000
<v Speaker 8>am triggered or when something comes up and I remember

0:34:08.120 --> 0:34:13.120
<v Speaker 8>the pain from the past to be able to vulnerably

0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:16.319
<v Speaker 8>share that with Jason, Jana, just like you did with

0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:20.320
<v Speaker 8>the three of us and all your listeners, and it

0:34:20.480 --> 0:34:24.440
<v Speaker 8>was just so brave of you. And then for Jason

0:34:24.960 --> 0:34:29.200
<v Speaker 8>to sit with me in that and to I mean,

0:34:29.200 --> 0:34:31.760
<v Speaker 8>whatever it might be, whether it's to hold me or

0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:36.200
<v Speaker 8>to just sit next to me, and to experience that

0:34:36.360 --> 0:34:40.560
<v Speaker 8>pain with me is one of the biggest gifts that

0:34:40.680 --> 0:34:42.919
<v Speaker 8>he has been able to give me on the other

0:34:43.080 --> 0:34:47.080
<v Speaker 8>side of all of this. And so I just appreciate,

0:34:47.160 --> 0:34:50.040
<v Speaker 8>Like Jana, when you got Kiri and I could hear

0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:53.400
<v Speaker 8>the pain, I was like, Okay, Mike, come on right,

0:34:54.719 --> 0:34:58.839
<v Speaker 8>you know, because I really think that that we are

0:34:58.960 --> 0:35:03.680
<v Speaker 8>fifteen years in and these things still come up, and

0:35:03.760 --> 0:35:06.960
<v Speaker 8>it is so important that I am still heard in

0:35:07.040 --> 0:35:10.759
<v Speaker 8>that and it actually brings us closer together whenever we

0:35:10.880 --> 0:35:12.120
<v Speaker 8>experience something like that.

0:35:13.040 --> 0:35:15.319
<v Speaker 1>So, I mean, I know, you said you've been fifteen years,

0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:18.200
<v Speaker 1>So I mean, is that something where it's you know, Jason,

0:35:18.239 --> 0:35:21.799
<v Speaker 1>are you are you always consistently empathetic because I guess

0:35:21.800 --> 0:35:24.680
<v Speaker 1>that's my fear where I'm afraid, because you know, we're

0:35:24.719 --> 0:35:28.400
<v Speaker 1>three years into discovery. I'm afraid. Okay, let's say are

0:35:28.640 --> 0:35:30.799
<v Speaker 1>in ten years I have a trigger that comes up

0:35:31.120 --> 0:35:33.160
<v Speaker 1>and he's like, God, we're still dealing with this ten

0:35:33.200 --> 0:35:36.160
<v Speaker 1>years later, And that's like, that's my fear that that's

0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:39.399
<v Speaker 1>something that's going to come up, because it's it's not

0:35:39.440 --> 0:35:41.400
<v Speaker 1>gonna I wish it. I wish it. You know, we

0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:44.560
<v Speaker 1>can forget it about it. But I know that's that's

0:35:44.680 --> 0:35:46.960
<v Speaker 1>that's so naive thinking. I know we're going to I

0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:49.160
<v Speaker 1>know I'll have triggers, and you know, as long as

0:35:49.160 --> 0:35:52.360
<v Speaker 1>I communicate it in a healthy way. But I'm afraid

0:35:52.400 --> 0:35:55.640
<v Speaker 1>that he might get edgy about the fact that he

0:35:55.719 --> 0:35:57.640
<v Speaker 1>still has to you know, deal with it.

0:35:58.400 --> 0:36:01.640
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, well, so that, you know, one thing's important to note.

0:36:01.760 --> 0:36:04.040
<v Speaker 9>So we're fifteen and a half years in, but Shelley

0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:09.880
<v Speaker 9>not on the slow track, all right. We're like, I'm

0:36:09.920 --> 0:36:11.879
<v Speaker 9>sure for y'all and probably a lot of other people

0:36:12.080 --> 0:36:13.520
<v Speaker 9>like that, the process is going to be a whole

0:36:13.560 --> 0:36:16.239
<v Speaker 9>lot faster than for us. We just we're just on

0:36:16.320 --> 0:36:20.160
<v Speaker 9>slow track. So, you know, I've cycled. There have been

0:36:20.200 --> 0:36:23.440
<v Speaker 9>times when I'm Charlie says, hey, I'm triggered, and I

0:36:23.520 --> 0:36:25.040
<v Speaker 9>just kind of put my hand on my forehead, and

0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:30.320
<v Speaker 9>I'm like, really still right, but but today, by and large,

0:36:30.360 --> 0:36:32.880
<v Speaker 9>and Shelley, can you can score my report card on this?

0:36:33.760 --> 0:36:37.279
<v Speaker 9>By and large, you know, I've internalized that and embraced

0:36:37.280 --> 0:36:41.080
<v Speaker 9>that that that's part of our process, and it's important

0:36:41.120 --> 0:36:44.640
<v Speaker 9>for me, for my heart, for my soul to love

0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:49.640
<v Speaker 9>her well when she's triggered, whether it was justified or not,

0:36:49.680 --> 0:36:52.680
<v Speaker 9>whether it's rational or not, like for me to enter

0:36:52.719 --> 0:36:55.200
<v Speaker 9>into her pain with her when she feels that from

0:36:55.320 --> 0:36:58.560
<v Speaker 9>here on out, it's just me being a good husband,

0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:01.440
<v Speaker 9>regardless of whether I'm in a doghouse so to speak,

0:37:02.000 --> 0:37:05.040
<v Speaker 9>or we're paying for past sins, like, it's just good

0:37:05.040 --> 0:37:06.920
<v Speaker 9>for me to be a good husband that way by

0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:08.319
<v Speaker 9>entering into her pain with her.

0:37:08.640 --> 0:37:11.880
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, and I completely agree with that, And I think

0:37:12.760 --> 0:37:15.560
<v Speaker 4>you know, the way I've tried to, you know, interpret

0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:19.840
<v Speaker 4>that as well, is that's an opportunity, you know, instead

0:37:19.840 --> 0:37:22.560
<v Speaker 4>of early on it felt you know, which I understand

0:37:22.560 --> 0:37:25.080
<v Speaker 4>why Janna would still have that fear because of even

0:37:25.120 --> 0:37:28.840
<v Speaker 4>early in recovery, I would still have the audacity to say,

0:37:29.360 --> 0:37:31.160
<v Speaker 4>because I was still stuck in the hole, I'm not

0:37:31.239 --> 0:37:33.799
<v Speaker 4>acting out, so you should trust me. So I was

0:37:33.800 --> 0:37:36.440
<v Speaker 4>still stuck in that mindset where you know, I'm not

0:37:36.520 --> 0:37:39.520
<v Speaker 4>physically acting out, you know why, you know, why are

0:37:39.520 --> 0:37:41.360
<v Speaker 4>we why are we dealing with this? And you know,

0:37:41.400 --> 0:37:45.160
<v Speaker 4>let's move on. But now I try to and again,

0:37:45.400 --> 0:37:47.200
<v Speaker 4>like you said, Jason, I think Jana can attest to

0:37:47.200 --> 0:37:49.640
<v Speaker 4>the port card for majority of the time. I'm We're

0:37:49.640 --> 0:37:53.480
<v Speaker 4>able to treat it as an opportunity to show up,

0:37:53.560 --> 0:37:55.600
<v Speaker 4>and not just for me, but also for Jana to

0:37:55.800 --> 0:37:58.799
<v Speaker 4>an opportunity for her to try to express it or

0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:01.160
<v Speaker 4>articulate it in a healthy way, which doesn't always happen,

0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:04.719
<v Speaker 4>which is understandable. And that's my that's my job to

0:38:05.239 --> 0:38:08.960
<v Speaker 4>allow her the latitude to however she needs to express

0:38:08.960 --> 0:38:11.799
<v Speaker 4>it or you know, let it out, you know, give

0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:13.520
<v Speaker 4>her the grace to be able to do that.

0:38:14.440 --> 0:38:18.719
<v Speaker 9>Right, and you think about, you know, whys that go

0:38:18.760 --> 0:38:22.239
<v Speaker 9>through betrayal? Are are grieving? Right? You're on You're on

0:38:22.280 --> 0:38:23.879
<v Speaker 9>the other side of the trail, and what you're doing

0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:26.919
<v Speaker 9>is grieving. And if you think about this in any

0:38:26.920 --> 0:38:29.239
<v Speaker 9>other context, Let's say somebody lost the loved one in

0:38:29.280 --> 0:38:33.799
<v Speaker 9>a tragic accident, like, would we put a statute of

0:38:33.840 --> 0:38:38.680
<v Speaker 9>limitations on their grieving? No, No, we wouldn't say, hey,

0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:41.000
<v Speaker 9>in eleven years, you can't talk about the loss of

0:38:41.040 --> 0:38:43.800
<v Speaker 9>your son anymore or the loss of your mother anymore.

0:38:43.840 --> 0:38:45.440
<v Speaker 9>Like we would never say that.

0:38:45.440 --> 0:38:46.800
<v Speaker 4>That's a great point, but yet.

0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:50.080
<v Speaker 9>We want to do that to our wives in this process, like, hey,

0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:51.840
<v Speaker 9>there's a point where you can't talk about it anymore.

0:38:51.880 --> 0:38:53.759
<v Speaker 9>But if we see it as you know what, they're

0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:57.640
<v Speaker 9>still grieving, and grieving is making sense of your story.

0:38:57.719 --> 0:38:59.840
<v Speaker 9>And she's gonna be making sense of her story for

0:38:59.880 --> 0:39:02.439
<v Speaker 9>the rest of our lives. And that's a good thing.

0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Shelly, Why did you stay?

0:39:08.160 --> 0:39:14.360
<v Speaker 8>That's a great question. I resisted saying. It took me

0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:18.800
<v Speaker 8>like eighteen months. Maybe Jason might have a different account

0:39:18.920 --> 0:39:22.760
<v Speaker 8>of it, but at least okay, at least eighteen months

0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:27.800
<v Speaker 8>before I was able to say okay, I am saying.

0:39:28.080 --> 0:39:33.120
<v Speaker 8>And the reason I stayed was Jason made it really

0:39:33.200 --> 0:39:37.320
<v Speaker 8>really hard for me to step away from the marriage.

0:39:37.480 --> 0:39:42.680
<v Speaker 8>He literally turned, he changed from the inside out, and

0:39:42.800 --> 0:39:45.680
<v Speaker 8>I got to this place where I was like, well, dang,

0:39:45.760 --> 0:39:50.120
<v Speaker 8>I don't want some other guys you know all of this,

0:39:50.480 --> 0:39:53.520
<v Speaker 8>Like I liked who he was on the other side

0:39:53.560 --> 0:39:57.080
<v Speaker 8>of this, and it's like, I mean, I knew who

0:39:57.160 --> 0:39:59.200
<v Speaker 8>he could be and who God created him to be

0:40:00.040 --> 0:40:02.920
<v Speaker 8>and then he and not that it was I mean

0:40:02.960 --> 0:40:04.680
<v Speaker 8>we are on this flow track, and not that it

0:40:04.719 --> 0:40:09.360
<v Speaker 8>has been perfect by any means, but he, truly he

0:40:09.640 --> 0:40:13.680
<v Speaker 8>made it difficult for me to step away because I

0:40:15.400 --> 0:40:18.800
<v Speaker 8>fell in love with the man that he changed into.

0:40:19.440 --> 0:40:20.879
<v Speaker 8>So that's that's my faith.

0:40:21.800 --> 0:40:25.080
<v Speaker 4>I will say to say something I'm sure Jana's thinking,

0:40:25.200 --> 0:40:30.359
<v Speaker 4>is you know I've I've even since discovery almost four

0:40:30.400 --> 0:40:33.439
<v Speaker 4>years ago, I've still given Jannah plenty of reasons to leave,

0:40:34.680 --> 0:40:38.880
<v Speaker 4>whether it you know, still omission or any kind of

0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:44.440
<v Speaker 4>line or relapse or slips or still more justification and rationalization.

0:40:44.760 --> 0:40:48.480
<v Speaker 4>I've definitely give her, given her, you know, plenty of

0:40:48.480 --> 0:40:51.839
<v Speaker 4>ammunition to leave in the fact that she's still been

0:40:51.920 --> 0:40:56.480
<v Speaker 4>strong enough to see enough of a change at times

0:40:56.960 --> 0:40:59.960
<v Speaker 4>to you know, still, you know, want to keep trying

0:41:00.040 --> 0:41:00.440
<v Speaker 4>and staining.

0:41:00.600 --> 0:41:03.640
<v Speaker 1>Is I mean you're holding on by the skinny skin

0:41:03.760 --> 0:41:05.479
<v Speaker 1>skin that was.

0:41:05.560 --> 0:41:08.359
<v Speaker 4>I was for a long time. I was, Yeah, it

0:41:08.400 --> 0:41:11.560
<v Speaker 4>really wasn't since the last year that I I've really

0:41:11.600 --> 0:41:14.480
<v Speaker 4>gotten sober. You know, it was just was it a

0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:16.719
<v Speaker 4>few weeks ago, I'm about a month ago that it

0:41:16.840 --> 0:41:20.879
<v Speaker 4>was my you know, one year sobriety and it's really

0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:22.799
<v Speaker 4>been the last year that Janna and I have done

0:41:22.800 --> 0:41:23.879
<v Speaker 4>the most amount of work.

0:41:24.800 --> 0:41:27.600
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's when you tapped into your empathy though.

0:41:27.640 --> 0:41:29.680
<v Speaker 1>I think that's where it was able to switch.

0:41:29.520 --> 0:41:31.239
<v Speaker 4>Where I was able to, like you talk about a

0:41:31.239 --> 0:41:31.640
<v Speaker 4>lot full.

0:41:31.560 --> 0:41:33.640
<v Speaker 1>Of recovery too, where it's not just middle story. You know,

0:41:33.680 --> 0:41:35.520
<v Speaker 1>it's like you were really like, right, I.

0:41:35.480 --> 0:41:37.520
<v Speaker 4>Wasn't living in the middle circle. I wasn't you know,

0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:42.080
<v Speaker 4>white knuckling things. I was doing the work. And you know, Jason,

0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:45.359
<v Speaker 4>you talk a lot about shame in the book, and

0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:48.040
<v Speaker 4>which again, whether addiction or not, people can attest to.

0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:51.680
<v Speaker 4>And so I think I was finally able to let alleviate,

0:41:51.719 --> 0:41:52.920
<v Speaker 4>you know, let go of a little bit more of

0:41:52.960 --> 0:41:55.120
<v Speaker 4>my shame and tap into more of that empathy.

0:41:56.239 --> 0:41:59.279
<v Speaker 1>Who was whose decision was it to you know, do

0:41:59.360 --> 0:42:01.839
<v Speaker 1>the book. You guys have the Redemptive Living dot com,

0:42:01.880 --> 0:42:04.319
<v Speaker 1>which I want to you know, tell the listeners to

0:42:04.360 --> 0:42:07.640
<v Speaker 1>go to. But was it was it something that were

0:42:07.680 --> 0:42:09.799
<v Speaker 1>you scared about coming out with all of it, or

0:42:10.120 --> 0:42:13.760
<v Speaker 1>or you just kind of wanted to, you know, help people.

0:42:13.800 --> 0:42:15.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean, what was what was your kind of thought

0:42:15.200 --> 0:42:16.000
<v Speaker 1>process with all of that?

0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:19.480
<v Speaker 9>You want to speak to that you want me to

0:42:19.480 --> 0:42:22.000
<v Speaker 9>speak to that show, Well, we both can.

0:42:22.280 --> 0:42:25.480
<v Speaker 8>I'll just say for me, early on, Jason was like,

0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:28.919
<v Speaker 8>I want to help other men. I want to help

0:42:29.000 --> 0:42:32.400
<v Speaker 8>them experience the freedom that I have. And I was like,

0:42:32.480 --> 0:42:35.800
<v Speaker 8>good luck, honey, have fun. I'll I'll be over here

0:42:36.120 --> 0:42:36.759
<v Speaker 8>a great time.

0:42:37.760 --> 0:42:39.879
<v Speaker 9>I don't want anything.

0:42:40.040 --> 0:42:41.600
<v Speaker 8>I don't want anything of that.

0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:46.000
<v Speaker 9>No, No, it sounded more like this, I will not

0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:48.120
<v Speaker 9>be the poster child for being betrayed.

0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:58.080
<v Speaker 8>All right, that's right. Yeah. So initially I didn't want

0:42:58.120 --> 0:43:01.920
<v Speaker 8>any part in it, and I was happy in my

0:43:02.040 --> 0:43:04.920
<v Speaker 8>career and doing all sorts of other things. But there

0:43:05.000 --> 0:43:09.440
<v Speaker 8>was just that still small voice that kept wooing me

0:43:09.640 --> 0:43:13.120
<v Speaker 8>toward helping women. And so it's a bit about a

0:43:13.200 --> 0:43:17.800
<v Speaker 8>decade ago that I started helping women by facilitating support groups.

0:43:17.880 --> 0:43:20.839
<v Speaker 8>And so I don't know, I mean, Jason, I'll let

0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:24.239
<v Speaker 8>you speak towards your desire to write the book. But

0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:26.480
<v Speaker 8>for me, it was just I'll say, it was just

0:43:26.640 --> 0:43:29.560
<v Speaker 8>hard for me to step into this space of helping

0:43:29.560 --> 0:43:31.160
<v Speaker 8>others and putting our story out there.

0:43:32.080 --> 0:43:34.960
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, that's not what I wanted. Yeah, And I had

0:43:35.000 --> 0:43:38.560
<v Speaker 9>been telling our story more and more often, more and

0:43:38.640 --> 0:43:42.040
<v Speaker 9>more frequently, and you know, working as working as a

0:43:42.080 --> 0:43:45.839
<v Speaker 9>coaching counselor helping people in their journey. I always led

0:43:45.880 --> 0:43:50.880
<v Speaker 9>with my story. So the book really came about as like,

0:43:50.960 --> 0:43:55.120
<v Speaker 9>this question just comes up every time when somebody calls

0:43:55.160 --> 0:43:57.000
<v Speaker 9>our office and says we need help. One of the

0:43:57.080 --> 0:43:59.399
<v Speaker 9>questions that always comes up is how will she ever

0:43:59.400 --> 0:44:01.840
<v Speaker 9>trust me in? Or how can I ever trust them again?

0:44:02.120 --> 0:44:02.319
<v Speaker 4>Right?

0:44:03.120 --> 0:44:05.520
<v Speaker 9>And so what what I found this is, this is

0:44:05.560 --> 0:44:08.400
<v Speaker 9>my personal experience, is when I asked that question of

0:44:08.440 --> 0:44:12.959
<v Speaker 9>people myself, it was always nebulous, like, well, work hard

0:44:13.040 --> 0:44:15.560
<v Speaker 9>and one day she might then there'll be a miracle.

0:44:15.640 --> 0:44:16.799
<v Speaker 4>And there was no.

0:44:16.960 --> 0:44:18.520
<v Speaker 9>There were no there's no meat on the bone. Does

0:44:18.560 --> 0:44:21.800
<v Speaker 9>that make sense? And so I just kind of started

0:44:21.800 --> 0:44:24.040
<v Speaker 9>looking at what the heck have we been doing? What

0:44:24.120 --> 0:44:27.680
<v Speaker 9>tangible tactical things have we been doing? What what wrong

0:44:27.719 --> 0:44:30.760
<v Speaker 9>ways of thinking have I been operating in that haven't helped?

0:44:31.120 --> 0:44:33.480
<v Speaker 9>And which ones have been right thinking that have helped.

0:44:33.840 --> 0:44:35.880
<v Speaker 9>And so that was kind of what spawned writing the book,

0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:39.160
<v Speaker 9>like let's give people tactical stuff to actually work on

0:44:39.239 --> 0:44:40.359
<v Speaker 9>rebuilding trust.

0:44:41.080 --> 0:44:44.360
<v Speaker 4>Which again, me personally, I will forever be grateful for

0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:47.400
<v Speaker 4>that because it changed my life. And you know, it's fun.

0:44:47.280 --> 0:44:48.560
<v Speaker 1>To tell the listeners the book again.

0:44:49.040 --> 0:44:50.560
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, the title of the book is worthy of a

0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:53.759
<v Speaker 4>trust and if you deal with any kind of infidelity,

0:44:53.800 --> 0:44:56.320
<v Speaker 4>definitely go get it. And some along with that, it's

0:44:56.760 --> 0:44:59.080
<v Speaker 4>you know, Shelley. I commend you a lot too for

0:44:59.680 --> 0:45:01.520
<v Speaker 4>age up and on board with it and being willing

0:45:02.320 --> 0:45:05.239
<v Speaker 4>and to adding your you know, your Shelley's thoughts, you know,

0:45:05.800 --> 0:45:08.480
<v Speaker 4>throughout the book because again for me, even when I

0:45:08.520 --> 0:45:11.279
<v Speaker 4>was reading it in treatment, which this whole world of

0:45:11.280 --> 0:45:13.960
<v Speaker 4>addiction and all of my shame and all my pain

0:45:14.040 --> 0:45:16.319
<v Speaker 4>and where it comes from, just I'm just discovering all

0:45:16.360 --> 0:45:19.319
<v Speaker 4>of this, but being able to hear your thoughts and

0:45:19.360 --> 0:45:23.520
<v Speaker 4>read your thoughts along with this again help me kind

0:45:23.520 --> 0:45:27.040
<v Speaker 4>of decipher it and put myself allow me to feel

0:45:27.040 --> 0:45:28.920
<v Speaker 4>a little bit more empathy and put myself into Janis

0:45:28.920 --> 0:45:32.880
<v Speaker 4>shoes of what she might feeling. So I, again I

0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:36.200
<v Speaker 4>speak for myself, I personally appreciate you being willing to

0:45:36.360 --> 0:45:39.160
<v Speaker 4>step into that world and you know, give your two

0:45:39.200 --> 0:45:42.200
<v Speaker 4>cents and help Jason with the book, because I don't

0:45:42.200 --> 0:45:45.640
<v Speaker 4>think it would have been the same without you, honestly,

0:45:45.680 --> 0:45:48.800
<v Speaker 4>and I can totally relate with how you felt about,

0:45:49.200 --> 0:45:50.920
<v Speaker 4>you know, not wanting to be the poster child for

0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:52.200
<v Speaker 4>betrayal or whatever.

0:45:52.440 --> 0:45:55.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I wrote a book while I was starting to

0:45:55.440 --> 0:45:59.040
<v Speaker 1>write a proposal, and Mike basically ripped up the entire thing.

0:45:59.160 --> 0:46:01.319
<v Speaker 1>We got into a huge I mean, it was it was,

0:46:01.480 --> 0:46:02.040
<v Speaker 1>it was bad.

0:46:02.239 --> 0:46:04.759
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Janna was was writing a book, started to write

0:46:04.760 --> 0:46:07.279
<v Speaker 4>a book, and you know, wanted to tell like part

0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:08.560
<v Speaker 4>of it because I wanted to help.

0:46:08.600 --> 0:46:11.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, there's a reason why this happened, and you know,

0:46:11.120 --> 0:46:13.640
<v Speaker 1>it's already out there in a way that he had

0:46:13.680 --> 0:46:16.960
<v Speaker 1>an affair publicly. So I'm like, let's help people with this.

0:46:17.120 --> 0:46:20.440
<v Speaker 1>And that was my whole because I'm like, this happened,

0:46:20.480 --> 0:46:23.400
<v Speaker 1>people know about it, so let's show people how you

0:46:23.440 --> 0:46:26.120
<v Speaker 1>can rebuild trust, how you can make this work. Where's

0:46:26.160 --> 0:46:28.839
<v Speaker 1>the silver lining? And he looked at it as just

0:46:28.880 --> 0:46:30.239
<v Speaker 1>like I don't want anyone to know.

0:46:30.440 --> 0:46:33.600
<v Speaker 4>I looked at it as shameful, as just pointing the

0:46:33.600 --> 0:46:36.360
<v Speaker 4>finger as put you know, I just felt a blanket

0:46:36.440 --> 0:46:38.960
<v Speaker 4>of shame. That's all that I felt. I was like,

0:46:39.000 --> 0:46:41.080
<v Speaker 4>I don't want people to talk about this. I don't

0:46:41.120 --> 0:46:43.360
<v Speaker 4>want to put you know, gas on the fire. I

0:46:43.360 --> 0:46:44.680
<v Speaker 4>don't you know, I don't want any of that. I

0:46:44.680 --> 0:46:46.319
<v Speaker 4>wanted to just sweep it on the rug and let

0:46:46.320 --> 0:46:46.760
<v Speaker 4>it go away.

0:46:46.840 --> 0:46:49.440
<v Speaker 1>And I was like pleading, like please, like I need

0:46:49.440 --> 0:46:51.120
<v Speaker 1>someone to help relate to me because I feel so

0:46:51.200 --> 0:46:52.879
<v Speaker 1>alone and I know I'm not alone, and I need,

0:46:53.200 --> 0:46:55.120
<v Speaker 1>I want this for other women. And it was it

0:46:55.200 --> 0:46:55.680
<v Speaker 1>was battle.

0:46:55.800 --> 0:46:58.880
<v Speaker 4>It was this battle until I was able to It

0:46:58.960 --> 0:47:03.080
<v Speaker 4>was honestly when we doing the podcast that we started

0:47:03.080 --> 0:47:07.279
<v Speaker 4>getting emails. Jana started showing me like direction messages she

0:47:07.280 --> 0:47:10.560
<v Speaker 4>would get on her social media, and I slowly started

0:47:10.560 --> 0:47:15.040
<v Speaker 4>to kind of get this validation that, wait, we actually

0:47:15.040 --> 0:47:17.920
<v Speaker 4>can help people, Like maybe what we're doing is a

0:47:17.920 --> 0:47:20.400
<v Speaker 4>good thing. Maybe Janna knew what she was talking about,

0:47:20.440 --> 0:47:22.759
<v Speaker 4>and I can just get out of my shame and

0:47:22.840 --> 0:47:24.640
<v Speaker 4>address it. And so it wasn't It was just a

0:47:24.640 --> 0:47:27.879
<v Speaker 4>few episodes ago that you know, it was speculated for

0:47:28.480 --> 0:47:31.080
<v Speaker 4>a long time that I was in sex addiction. I

0:47:31.120 --> 0:47:32.719
<v Speaker 4>went to rehab and all of that, but it never

0:47:32.760 --> 0:47:36.160
<v Speaker 4>came from Jana or I. So just about a month

0:47:36.200 --> 0:47:39.480
<v Speaker 4>ago we decided on the show to address it and

0:47:39.840 --> 0:47:44.320
<v Speaker 4>control the narrative and own it. And it was because

0:47:44.320 --> 0:47:46.279
<v Speaker 4>on the show we were so open about our life.

0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:47.680
<v Speaker 4>We're so open about what we've been through in our

0:47:47.680 --> 0:47:50.040
<v Speaker 4>relationship that was like the one last skeleton we had

0:47:50.040 --> 0:47:52.920
<v Speaker 4>in the closet that we hadn't talked about. But obviously

0:47:52.920 --> 0:47:56.120
<v Speaker 4>it's a major part of our story, so it felt,

0:47:56.440 --> 0:48:00.279
<v Speaker 4>you know, inauthentic to not talk about it. It's just

0:48:00.280 --> 0:48:02.640
<v Speaker 4>another way to reach that much more people, that many

0:48:02.640 --> 0:48:05.320
<v Speaker 4>more people that may be suffering from the addictive aspect.

0:48:06.160 --> 0:48:08.399
<v Speaker 4>So we totally relate to that, and I totally relate

0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:08.600
<v Speaker 4>to that.

0:48:10.080 --> 0:48:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but seriously, thank you guys, Just thank you for

0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:16.800
<v Speaker 1>being a light for us too, because that's this is

0:48:16.920 --> 0:48:18.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, we want to help people and you know,

0:48:18.800 --> 0:48:22.640
<v Speaker 1>you guys are showing the way.

0:48:22.640 --> 0:48:26.879
<v Speaker 9>Thank you. It is definitely I was going to say,

0:48:26.880 --> 0:48:30.200
<v Speaker 9>it's definitely a privilege, like to hear you guys say that, like,

0:48:30.760 --> 0:48:34.279
<v Speaker 9>it's a huge privilege to know, and it's also, as

0:48:34.320 --> 0:48:38.680
<v Speaker 9>you guys are experiencing, it's also a huge motivator. Yes,

0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:41.200
<v Speaker 9>you know, to hear like that our story has impacted

0:48:41.280 --> 0:48:44.600
<v Speaker 9>y'all then just makes me want to keep doing the

0:48:44.680 --> 0:48:47.200
<v Speaker 9>work to get better and grow and make our marriage stronger.

0:48:47.239 --> 0:48:50.319
<v Speaker 9>And it's like everybody wins when we get honest and

0:48:50.360 --> 0:48:51.399
<v Speaker 9>authentic about that.

0:48:53.280 --> 0:48:55.880
<v Speaker 4>There's no question I'm.

0:48:55.719 --> 0:48:58.680
<v Speaker 8>Sitting here, you know, as we're talking. I'm looking at

0:48:58.680 --> 0:49:01.440
<v Speaker 8>this quote. I have just put it on my desk

0:49:01.560 --> 0:49:05.320
<v Speaker 8>earlier this morning, and it says, we suffer to get well,

0:49:05.440 --> 0:49:09.319
<v Speaker 8>we surrender to whin, we die to live, we give

0:49:09.360 --> 0:49:13.160
<v Speaker 8>it away to keep it. It's from Richard Rore, And

0:49:13.360 --> 0:49:15.040
<v Speaker 8>just as you guys are talking, I'm like, I feel

0:49:15.040 --> 0:49:17.360
<v Speaker 8>like this quote is you know, it's kind of speaking

0:49:17.400 --> 0:49:22.160
<v Speaker 8>to what we're talking about, and just the importance of

0:49:23.400 --> 0:49:29.120
<v Speaker 8>giving away sometimes when we when we share our pain,

0:49:29.360 --> 0:49:34.520
<v Speaker 8>when we share our insecurities, gosh, just the blessing for

0:49:34.719 --> 0:49:39.279
<v Speaker 8>others and and that's how we're able to Jason, what

0:49:39.320 --> 0:49:41.319
<v Speaker 8>you were just saying, like, it makes you want to

0:49:41.320 --> 0:49:43.360
<v Speaker 8>do a better job, It makes you want to be

0:49:43.400 --> 0:49:46.279
<v Speaker 8>a better husband, a better father, et cetera. So I

0:49:46.320 --> 0:49:48.439
<v Speaker 8>think it's cool how that giving back.

0:49:49.280 --> 0:49:49.440
<v Speaker 9>Mike.

0:49:49.520 --> 0:49:52.400
<v Speaker 8>I have a question for you though, because you've mentioned

0:49:52.440 --> 0:49:59.840
<v Speaker 8>a couple of times, so sorry I interview you. Okay,

0:50:01.600 --> 0:50:05.480
<v Speaker 8>So I'm curious because you said, and Janna you mentioned

0:50:05.520 --> 0:50:09.000
<v Speaker 8>just a bit ago, the empathy piece really being the

0:50:09.040 --> 0:50:13.439
<v Speaker 8>turning point for you guys in your healing process, and

0:50:13.480 --> 0:50:16.279
<v Speaker 8>with the women I work with, that seems to be

0:50:16.560 --> 0:50:20.279
<v Speaker 8>such the missing element and a lot of women, like

0:50:20.960 --> 0:50:26.520
<v Speaker 8>the affair is actually not what's going to cause the divorce.

0:50:26.600 --> 0:50:31.560
<v Speaker 8>It's the line. It's the defensiveness, like you guys were saying. So, Mike,

0:50:31.640 --> 0:50:38.359
<v Speaker 8>I'm just curious what helped you go from that defensive

0:50:38.520 --> 0:50:44.480
<v Speaker 8>posture to this posture of it sounds like humility and empathy?

0:50:44.560 --> 0:50:46.799
<v Speaker 8>What like what made it click for you?

0:50:47.320 --> 0:50:50.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, because that took a while. I mean

0:50:50.000 --> 0:50:51.920
<v Speaker 1>it's still not perfect.

0:50:52.360 --> 0:50:55.480
<v Speaker 4>I still have my moments because I've always been a defensive,

0:50:56.640 --> 0:51:00.319
<v Speaker 4>kind of short tempered human being. So it's still active

0:51:00.400 --> 0:51:02.080
<v Speaker 4>thing for me to do, and a lot of my

0:51:02.160 --> 0:51:07.600
<v Speaker 4>natural reactions are maybe defensive, you know, like just this morning, Yeah,

0:51:08.040 --> 0:51:10.719
<v Speaker 4>just this morning, just because I was Jana had been

0:51:10.800 --> 0:51:12.279
<v Speaker 4>up and was ready to start the day. I was

0:51:12.320 --> 0:51:14.600
<v Speaker 4>just waking up. We just traveled from a different country

0:51:14.680 --> 0:51:17.600
<v Speaker 4>last night, and so Jana was asking me about something.

0:51:17.640 --> 0:51:20.319
<v Speaker 4>I just got defensive about it and it was kind

0:51:20.320 --> 0:51:22.399
<v Speaker 4>of you know. And then a few minutes later, once

0:51:22.440 --> 0:51:24.880
<v Speaker 4>we were away from each other, I texted because I

0:51:24.920 --> 0:51:26.279
<v Speaker 4>was just like what am I doing? Like why was

0:51:26.280 --> 0:51:28.920
<v Speaker 4>I I didn't have to be that way, you know.

0:51:29.000 --> 0:51:30.880
<v Speaker 4>So it's still something I struggle with, but for me,

0:51:30.960 --> 0:51:33.600
<v Speaker 4>I mean, we Jana and I got to a place

0:51:33.600 --> 0:51:38.120
<v Speaker 4>where she truly gave me like an ultimatum where time

0:51:38.160 --> 0:51:43.120
<v Speaker 4>had passed since the actual infidelity, and so basically she

0:51:44.239 --> 0:51:47.400
<v Speaker 4>confirmed the myth that this is a myth, the whole

0:51:48.120 --> 0:51:50.080
<v Speaker 4>I'm not acting out, Why don't you trust me? She

0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:52.920
<v Speaker 4>confirmed that. She's like, I'm gonna leave you if you

0:51:52.960 --> 0:51:55.720
<v Speaker 4>do not stop being defensive, if you don't show me empathy,

0:51:56.160 --> 0:51:58.080
<v Speaker 4>you know, so on and so forth. But I'll still

0:51:58.080 --> 0:52:01.080
<v Speaker 4>stuck in that mindset of but I'm not acting out

0:52:01.360 --> 0:52:04.480
<v Speaker 4>or I'm not you know, whatever it is. So it

0:52:04.640 --> 0:52:07.719
<v Speaker 4>just she we got into a bad enough place where

0:52:07.760 --> 0:52:11.319
<v Speaker 4>she told that to me, and I realized, like, this

0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:13.920
<v Speaker 4>doesn't have really anything to do with me acting out.

0:52:13.920 --> 0:52:16.640
<v Speaker 4>This has to do with everything else too.

0:52:17.200 --> 0:52:18.799
<v Speaker 1>But why does it happen? Like I'm just trying to think,

0:52:18.840 --> 0:52:20.680
<v Speaker 1>like for the guy, like how why is it so

0:52:20.920 --> 0:52:23.520
<v Speaker 1>hard for the men to be because I mean, I

0:52:23.840 --> 0:52:25.719
<v Speaker 1>same thing with you, Shelly, Like I get DMS all

0:52:25.760 --> 0:52:28.120
<v Speaker 1>the time. Like the husband's like wants me to get

0:52:28.160 --> 0:52:30.680
<v Speaker 1>over it, and you know they don't feel the pain.

0:52:30.800 --> 0:52:34.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why you guys can't sit there with

0:52:34.200 --> 0:52:35.200
<v Speaker 1>Is it because of the shame?

0:52:35.360 --> 0:52:38.160
<v Speaker 4>I think yes, one hundred percent, and Jason can speak

0:52:38.160 --> 0:52:40.920
<v Speaker 4>on this too. I think for me it's definitely shame

0:52:41.640 --> 0:52:44.600
<v Speaker 4>and I think it's a biological thing too, where we

0:52:45.840 --> 0:52:50.360
<v Speaker 4>just naturally aren't as nurturing or empathetic as women. So

0:52:50.920 --> 0:52:53.040
<v Speaker 4>for us, the pride and the ego, that kind of

0:52:53.080 --> 0:52:56.400
<v Speaker 4>neanderthal mindset, we just allow that to get in the

0:52:56.400 --> 0:53:00.040
<v Speaker 4>way because of what society teaches us because maybe I

0:53:00.120 --> 0:53:00.680
<v Speaker 4>were raised.

0:53:01.440 --> 0:53:04.200
<v Speaker 1>I like the car accident one that you said, we

0:53:04.280 --> 0:53:07.080
<v Speaker 1>had a therapist or our therapist here in La make

0:53:07.160 --> 0:53:09.520
<v Speaker 1>you watch something, and I think that helped sometimes too

0:53:09.560 --> 0:53:10.640
<v Speaker 1>for you for empathy.

0:53:11.080 --> 0:53:11.799
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, what was that?

0:53:11.880 --> 0:53:13.960
<v Speaker 1>It was like, basically, I got into a car accident

0:53:14.000 --> 0:53:15.799
<v Speaker 1>and I need you to help me. You need to

0:53:15.840 --> 0:53:18.640
<v Speaker 1>carry me basically, Yeah, because you just you just took

0:53:18.640 --> 0:53:19.600
<v Speaker 1>off my two legs.

0:53:19.719 --> 0:53:20.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah exactly.

0:53:21.680 --> 0:53:25.960
<v Speaker 9>I think the other aspect of it is, you know,

0:53:26.040 --> 0:53:31.440
<v Speaker 9>kind of conceptually, uh, our emotional maturity as men, our

0:53:31.480 --> 0:53:37.239
<v Speaker 9>emotional maturity kind of stops where our addiction starts. So

0:53:37.360 --> 0:53:38.760
<v Speaker 9>for a lot of us, you know, we were eleven

0:53:38.840 --> 0:53:43.200
<v Speaker 9>twelve years old whenever we were starting into this sexual stop, right,

0:53:44.160 --> 0:53:47.200
<v Speaker 9>and it's at the point where that was really ramping

0:53:47.239 --> 0:53:51.360
<v Speaker 9>up that our emotional maturity got stunted, so like for

0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:53.680
<v Speaker 9>a lot of us guys. And this is not an excuse,

0:53:53.719 --> 0:53:58.080
<v Speaker 9>it's an explanation on excuse. It's like we didn't develop,

0:53:59.200 --> 0:54:02.279
<v Speaker 9>you know, mature and develop into what it means to

0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:06.920
<v Speaker 9>be an emphastic, tender person because of the stuff that's

0:54:06.960 --> 0:54:09.120
<v Speaker 9>been going on in our lives for usually a couple

0:54:09.080 --> 0:54:09.600
<v Speaker 9>of decades.

0:54:09.920 --> 0:54:10.160
<v Speaker 4>Yep.

0:54:10.920 --> 0:54:13.799
<v Speaker 9>So part of our recovery is not only stop acting

0:54:13.840 --> 0:54:15.520
<v Speaker 9>out and and all that stuff, but part of our

0:54:15.560 --> 0:54:19.520
<v Speaker 9>recovery is that emotional maturity and development and empathy is

0:54:19.560 --> 0:54:20.120
<v Speaker 9>a part of that.

0:54:22.160 --> 0:54:25.839
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's a great point. And because it just again

0:54:25.880 --> 0:54:29.520
<v Speaker 4>for me personally, it's every time I had feelings or whatever,

0:54:29.800 --> 0:54:32.200
<v Speaker 4>I didn't know how to handle them, so I acted

0:54:32.200 --> 0:54:35.520
<v Speaker 4>out sexually, right, so instead of confronting them and dealing

0:54:35.560 --> 0:54:38.080
<v Speaker 4>with that, that feeling or pain that you know, just

0:54:38.120 --> 0:54:40.720
<v Speaker 4>went elsewhere, just like anyone with any kind of an addiction.

0:54:41.000 --> 0:54:44.640
<v Speaker 9>Yeah. Well, I won't say one other thing about something

0:54:44.680 --> 0:54:49.120
<v Speaker 9>you mentioned there, Jenna. They so much. I hear this

0:54:49.200 --> 0:54:53.399
<v Speaker 9>a lot of people in the culture saying, well, this

0:54:53.480 --> 0:54:56.400
<v Speaker 9>is really about a weak woman. Have you as anybody

0:54:56.400 --> 0:55:00.840
<v Speaker 9>said that to you? You're a weak woman, for saying, oh, yeah.

0:55:00.680 --> 0:55:02.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean there's some been some mean people that have

0:55:02.760 --> 0:55:04.640
<v Speaker 1>said things, but yeah, I mean I've I've definitely heard

0:55:04.640 --> 0:55:09.640
<v Speaker 1>that before. But my I think I'm super strong for

0:55:09.680 --> 0:55:12.600
<v Speaker 1>saying I think the easiest thing could have been to

0:55:12.680 --> 0:55:13.400
<v Speaker 1>leave you.

0:55:13.680 --> 0:55:15.680
<v Speaker 9>Totally agree, Yeah, totally.

0:55:15.760 --> 0:55:17.600
<v Speaker 1>I think it takes a really strong woman to stay.

0:55:18.280 --> 0:55:21.160
<v Speaker 9>It takes more strength and more courage to work through

0:55:21.200 --> 0:55:25.319
<v Speaker 9>the pain. I mean, anytime you see a good man

0:55:25.520 --> 0:55:28.000
<v Speaker 9>in this recovery process, chances of those is a really

0:55:28.040 --> 0:55:29.120
<v Speaker 9>good woman next to him.

0:55:30.400 --> 0:55:33.680
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, I really want all of us to get together.

0:55:33.719 --> 0:55:36.120
<v Speaker 1>So can we make this happen? Because I love you guys.

0:55:36.800 --> 0:55:38.759
<v Speaker 8>Oh my gosh, you.

0:55:38.760 --> 0:55:39.840
<v Speaker 1>Guys live in the Denver area.

0:55:40.600 --> 0:55:42.000
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, we're in Denver, all right.

0:55:42.080 --> 0:55:44.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, anytime you guys are in LA or Nashville and

0:55:44.600 --> 0:55:46.920
<v Speaker 1>foreign Denver, you just let's just stay in contact. And

0:55:47.040 --> 0:55:48.600
<v Speaker 1>because we think you guys are great and we just

0:55:48.680 --> 0:55:51.960
<v Speaker 1>cannot thank you enough for this conversation. And I just

0:55:52.239 --> 0:55:53.120
<v Speaker 1>thank you for everything.

0:55:53.200 --> 0:55:54.680
<v Speaker 4>We can talk to you guys all day, so we

0:55:54.719 --> 0:55:57.719
<v Speaker 4>appreciate your time. And where else can our listeners like

0:55:57.840 --> 0:55:59.960
<v Speaker 4>you know, tell them real quick about Redemptive Living, nuck

0:56:00.440 --> 0:56:00.800
<v Speaker 4>and so on?

0:56:02.160 --> 0:56:04.240
<v Speaker 9>For Living dot Com that's our website for our minustry

0:56:04.320 --> 0:56:08.920
<v Speaker 9>where we do work helping men, marriages and whys that

0:56:09.000 --> 0:56:10.799
<v Speaker 9>are going through betrayal. And that's all we do, that's

0:56:10.840 --> 0:56:15.200
<v Speaker 9>all we specialize in. Shelley runs groups support groups for

0:56:15.320 --> 0:56:17.480
<v Speaker 9>wives going through it. You can check out her website

0:56:17.600 --> 0:56:21.360
<v Speaker 9>r l forwomen dot com. Uh and we've got resources

0:56:21.400 --> 0:56:25.480
<v Speaker 9>out there. There's books, video curriculum, courses as well as

0:56:25.560 --> 0:56:28.399
<v Speaker 9>obviously one on one help. So if there's a way

0:56:28.400 --> 0:56:30.360
<v Speaker 9>that we can we can help people through the process,

0:56:30.400 --> 0:56:31.080
<v Speaker 9>that's what we're.

0:56:30.960 --> 0:56:31.359
<v Speaker 4>Here to do.

0:56:31.800 --> 0:56:33.799
<v Speaker 1>I love it. Jason Shelley, thank you guys so much

0:56:33.800 --> 0:56:34.719
<v Speaker 1>for coming online down.

0:56:34.719 --> 0:56:35.759
<v Speaker 4>Thank you guys so much.

0:56:35.960 --> 0:56:38.640
<v Speaker 8>You guys, thank you, Honor, have.

0:56:38.640 --> 0:56:44.600
<v Speaker 4>A great one too. Before before we go on, before

0:56:44.640 --> 0:56:45.919
<v Speaker 4>we go on and take a break for a second,

0:56:45.920 --> 0:56:48.440
<v Speaker 4>there's one thing I want to read to and this

0:56:48.520 --> 0:56:51.279
<v Speaker 4>is this stuck with me. I remember I read it first.

0:56:51.280 --> 0:56:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Are you gonna read it?

0:56:52.000 --> 0:56:53.920
<v Speaker 4>No, we're gonna take a break on one second. I

0:56:53.960 --> 0:56:56.160
<v Speaker 4>just want to read this for food for thought for

0:56:56.200 --> 0:56:59.560
<v Speaker 4>the men or women out there that are the perpetrators,

0:56:59.560 --> 0:57:01.840
<v Speaker 4>the one in my shoes. Okay, and this is the

0:57:01.880 --> 0:57:04.600
<v Speaker 4>end of there forward and worthy of a trust. So

0:57:04.760 --> 0:57:06.479
<v Speaker 4>it took a better part of five years to feel

0:57:06.480 --> 0:57:09.080
<v Speaker 4>like we were stabilized. It took seven years for Shelley

0:57:09.120 --> 0:57:11.920
<v Speaker 4>to say she actually respected me. Took eight years for

0:57:11.960 --> 0:57:13.440
<v Speaker 4>her to say that if we had to go through

0:57:13.480 --> 0:57:16.000
<v Speaker 4>it all over again, she would still choose me. Took

0:57:16.120 --> 0:57:18.240
<v Speaker 4>nine years for her to say that my sexual addiction

0:57:18.360 --> 0:57:20.200
<v Speaker 4>was one of the best things that ever happened to her.

0:57:21.080 --> 0:57:23.040
<v Speaker 4>And today, as I write, this is a little over

0:57:23.080 --> 0:57:25.480
<v Speaker 4>ten years since everything hit the fan, and they're in

0:57:25.520 --> 0:57:29.880
<v Speaker 4>an amazing place. So that's just you know that I

0:57:29.880 --> 0:57:32.240
<v Speaker 4>always would reread that, and as much as I acted

0:57:32.280 --> 0:57:35.360
<v Speaker 4>against that in all of this kind of recovery process

0:57:35.480 --> 0:57:39.440
<v Speaker 4>is it's a good reminder that this isn't a quick fix.

0:57:40.360 --> 0:57:44.160
<v Speaker 4>It takes time, takes investment. But take a break.

0:57:45.680 --> 0:57:49.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, now that I am not pregnant anymore, I

0:57:49.440 --> 0:57:50.960
<v Speaker 1>have got to the dreaded period.

0:57:51.160 --> 0:57:53.880
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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's it's hard talking about Yeah, it's it's

1:00:23.320 --> 1:00:27.440
<v Speaker 1>like it's tough, but they're so sweet and I just,

1:00:27.640 --> 1:00:30.720
<v Speaker 1>I just I love that there's other people out there

1:00:30.760 --> 1:00:34.480
<v Speaker 1>too that are showing people that there is, if there's

1:00:34.480 --> 1:00:36.920
<v Speaker 1>a will, there's a way. I just I'm just the

1:00:36.920 --> 1:00:40.160
<v Speaker 1>empathy piece is very interesting that she you know, because

1:00:40.200 --> 1:00:42.400
<v Speaker 1>so many women, it's just there's so many times I

1:00:42.440 --> 1:00:44.000
<v Speaker 1>just want to like shake you and be like just

1:00:44.080 --> 1:00:47.080
<v Speaker 1>sit here with me and like cry and say you're sorry,

1:00:47.160 --> 1:00:51.360
<v Speaker 1>and you know, Yeah, it's an interesting piece. But yeah,

1:00:51.520 --> 1:00:53.960
<v Speaker 1>that was a They were really sweet. I'd love to

1:00:55.080 --> 1:00:56.439
<v Speaker 1>I'd love to get to know them more.

1:00:56.800 --> 1:00:59.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that was that was really really cool, I think

1:00:59.360 --> 1:01:00.000
<v Speaker 4>for both of us.

1:01:00.160 --> 1:01:02.600
<v Speaker 1>And it's got to be like full circle for.

1:01:02.560 --> 1:01:06.280
<v Speaker 4>You, it's super full circle and kind of surreal that

1:01:06.320 --> 1:01:09.440
<v Speaker 4>I was able to talk to again. You know me,

1:01:09.480 --> 1:01:11.480
<v Speaker 4>I'm not a huge reader. I'm trying to become more

1:01:11.520 --> 1:01:14.080
<v Speaker 4>of a reader. Yeah, you know, and so for this

1:01:14.160 --> 1:01:16.760
<v Speaker 4>to be the first book, and I again, like I

1:01:16.840 --> 1:01:19.480
<v Speaker 4>said numerous times now, I don't know the last time

1:01:19.520 --> 1:01:20.960
<v Speaker 4>I read a book cover to cover, and I read

1:01:20.960 --> 1:01:25.240
<v Speaker 4>it twice when I was in treatment. You know, it

1:01:25.280 --> 1:01:25.960
<v Speaker 4>did change my.

1:01:25.920 --> 1:01:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Life's kinda feel pretty good then, just that you just

1:01:29.560 --> 1:01:37.320
<v Speaker 1>talked to the author. Yeah, all rights.

1:01:34.960 --> 1:01:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Mark, we got some good ones. I am in a

1:01:37.520 --> 1:01:40.600
<v Speaker 2>similar situation to you and Mike. Six months before my wedding,

1:01:40.640 --> 1:01:43.200
<v Speaker 2>I had discovered that by now husband has a gambling problem.

1:01:43.800 --> 1:01:45.520
<v Speaker 2>He said he was just young and dumb and wasn't

1:01:45.520 --> 1:01:47.640
<v Speaker 2>doing it anymore. Well, it's almost two years into our

1:01:47.640 --> 1:01:50.720
<v Speaker 2>marriage and seven months pregnant. I stumbled across a credit

1:01:50.760 --> 1:01:52.920
<v Speaker 2>card statement saw the amount of money he had charged

1:01:52.920 --> 1:01:55.360
<v Speaker 2>to it, more than we could afford. He blamed it

1:01:55.400 --> 1:01:58.080
<v Speaker 2>on gambling, but this time it felt different. The names

1:01:58.080 --> 1:02:00.920
<v Speaker 2>he sent Amazon gift cards to see odd and were

1:02:00.960 --> 1:02:04.120
<v Speaker 2>women's names. Over the next two months, I found about

1:02:04.160 --> 1:02:06.480
<v Speaker 2>four more credit cards that were accumulating death that was

1:02:06.520 --> 1:02:08.600
<v Speaker 2>beyond what we could fix. He decided to go to

1:02:08.640 --> 1:02:11.280
<v Speaker 2>a few gamblers anonymous meetings and began seeing a therapist.

1:02:11.320 --> 1:02:13.560
<v Speaker 2>But I knew he was hiding something, so I went

1:02:13.600 --> 1:02:16.200
<v Speaker 2>into his email and discovered he was having girls send

1:02:16.280 --> 1:02:19.400
<v Speaker 2>him individualized videos. He said he felt like he never

1:02:19.440 --> 1:02:21.880
<v Speaker 2>got to experience that life, because we've been together since

1:02:21.880 --> 1:02:24.200
<v Speaker 2>we were fifteen, and he felt that this was a

1:02:24.200 --> 1:02:27.160
<v Speaker 2>better option than cheating because it wasn't physical. I can't

1:02:27.160 --> 1:02:31.040
<v Speaker 2>believe he spent thousands of dollars on these women. It's

1:02:31.080 --> 1:02:32.720
<v Speaker 2>been a little over a month now and we're both

1:02:32.760 --> 1:02:34.760
<v Speaker 2>doing counseling. I don't know how to move forward with

1:02:34.800 --> 1:02:37.600
<v Speaker 2>our relationship, Mike. I want to better understand the mind

1:02:37.600 --> 1:02:39.960
<v Speaker 2>of an addict. Why did he get so invested in

1:02:40.000 --> 1:02:42.440
<v Speaker 2>this lifestyle when I was here for him all along?

1:02:43.360 --> 1:02:51.680
<v Speaker 4>She is anonymous, I mean addictive behavior for sure. Is

1:02:52.440 --> 1:02:58.960
<v Speaker 4>his excuses are just rationalization, justification that they are excuses

1:02:59.200 --> 1:03:03.120
<v Speaker 4>the whole I didn't ex experience this or that. I mean,

1:03:03.960 --> 1:03:06.000
<v Speaker 4>you guys been get it that long. He made a choice,

1:03:06.680 --> 1:03:10.240
<v Speaker 4>so there's nothing to blame. You're not to blame for this.

1:03:11.560 --> 1:03:16.400
<v Speaker 4>It was him just choosing. He made the choices, and

1:03:17.920 --> 1:03:19.960
<v Speaker 4>you know, whatever is going on with him. I mean

1:03:19.960 --> 1:03:22.160
<v Speaker 4>again kind of Jane and I've been talking about, like

1:03:22.400 --> 1:03:24.680
<v Speaker 4>for men or for myself or whoever, to be able

1:03:24.680 --> 1:03:27.160
<v Speaker 4>to tap into empathy or to be able to go

1:03:27.200 --> 1:03:33.000
<v Speaker 4>and talk to somebody about internal feelings easier said than

1:03:33.040 --> 1:03:36.640
<v Speaker 4>done for for a male. I mean, I'm sure there's

1:03:36.680 --> 1:03:40.840
<v Speaker 4>females that have that problem too, but he just found

1:03:40.840 --> 1:03:46.000
<v Speaker 4>an outlet for whatever he's dealing with. It's not healthy.

1:03:46.160 --> 1:03:48.360
<v Speaker 1>No, and you didn't do anything wrong, like Mike said,

1:03:48.720 --> 1:03:51.160
<v Speaker 1>nothing wrong. Yeah, don't be like don't and don't put

1:03:51.160 --> 1:03:55.280
<v Speaker 1>blame on what he said, Well, we been together since

1:03:55.280 --> 1:03:58.520
<v Speaker 1>we're fifteen like that, don't put blame. Don't blame yourself

1:03:58.600 --> 1:04:00.680
<v Speaker 1>for that. That's not nothing wrong.

1:04:00.880 --> 1:04:02.240
<v Speaker 2>Right in the line, why did he do this when

1:04:02.240 --> 1:04:03.800
<v Speaker 2>I was here for him all along? I feel like

1:04:03.840 --> 1:04:05.920
<v Speaker 2>she is starting to put some on herself.

1:04:05.520 --> 1:04:07.560
<v Speaker 4>There, right or do that right? And I'm not even

1:04:07.600 --> 1:04:09.600
<v Speaker 4>going to sit here and say, well, how did he

1:04:09.680 --> 1:04:11.760
<v Speaker 4>know that you were there for him like you should?

1:04:11.800 --> 1:04:13.680
<v Speaker 4>Did you tell him? I'm not even gonna say that,

1:04:13.720 --> 1:04:16.520
<v Speaker 4>because that's not it. If you've been together for fifteen years,

1:04:16.560 --> 1:04:18.760
<v Speaker 4>like I don't know how long they've been together. I mean,

1:04:18.800 --> 1:04:21.040
<v Speaker 4>I mean since they're fifteen. I'm sorry, you've been together

1:04:21.040 --> 1:04:23.560
<v Speaker 4>since they're fifteen. I mean, they know they're there for

1:04:23.600 --> 1:04:24.000
<v Speaker 4>each other.

1:04:25.200 --> 1:04:28.360
<v Speaker 1>So I love that you guys are in counseling. And

1:04:28.920 --> 1:04:30.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't like the fact that I will say I

1:04:30.640 --> 1:04:32.400
<v Speaker 1>don't like the fact that he says it's not cheating

1:04:32.400 --> 1:04:34.920
<v Speaker 1>because that is still cheating. Oh yeah, even though you

1:04:34.960 --> 1:04:40.360
<v Speaker 1>didn't physically he wasn't physical with those women, that's still.

1:04:40.720 --> 1:04:42.920
<v Speaker 4>Outside, that's stepping out inside the marriage.

1:04:43.040 --> 1:04:46.760
<v Speaker 1>So I don't let him manipulate that, yeah, because that's

1:04:46.760 --> 1:04:48.880
<v Speaker 1>not go to counseling. Well, yeah, they're in.

1:04:49.400 --> 1:04:52.919
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, right, he should see a c SET certified sex

1:04:52.920 --> 1:04:57.640
<v Speaker 4>addiction therapists. Yeah, and he needs to not only a

1:04:57.720 --> 1:04:59.600
<v Speaker 4>couples counseling like you guys are doing, but he needs

1:04:59.600 --> 1:05:02.920
<v Speaker 4>to go to visual counseling and figure out and dig

1:05:03.040 --> 1:05:05.640
<v Speaker 4>to see where these feelings are coming from.

1:05:05.680 --> 1:05:07.600
<v Speaker 2>It's great that he's going to Gambles Anonymous, but I

1:05:07.600 --> 1:05:08.400
<v Speaker 2>feel like there's more.

1:05:08.680 --> 1:05:12.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah here, Yeah, there's a personal You know.

1:05:12.520 --> 1:05:15.800
<v Speaker 4>It's interesting because I've known plenty of guys that are

1:05:15.840 --> 1:05:18.360
<v Speaker 4>in the twelve set program I'm in that come from

1:05:19.040 --> 1:05:24.760
<v Speaker 4>AA or NA or whatever, and they realize, come to

1:05:24.840 --> 1:05:29.520
<v Speaker 4>realize that the sex aspect is the root of maybe

1:05:29.520 --> 1:05:30.240
<v Speaker 4>what drove.

1:05:30.040 --> 1:05:33.680
<v Speaker 1>Them to something love to For slaw, the root is

1:05:33.720 --> 1:05:38.000
<v Speaker 1>always love, you know, the most most roots are always

1:05:38.080 --> 1:05:40.920
<v Speaker 1>about love and the lack thereof and your family of origin.

1:05:41.520 --> 1:05:44.760
<v Speaker 4>So so yeah, so it's you know, great, they went

1:05:44.800 --> 1:05:47.880
<v Speaker 4>to gamblers anonymous, But that's just him believing his own

1:05:47.920 --> 1:05:49.960
<v Speaker 4>lies that it was gambling.

1:05:50.360 --> 1:05:52.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he needs it's deeper than that, needs to admit

1:05:52.120 --> 1:05:54.160
<v Speaker 2>that he has a real problem here. There's it's deeper

1:05:54.160 --> 1:05:55.720
<v Speaker 2>than that until he admits that. I think we got

1:05:55.720 --> 1:05:57.040
<v Speaker 2>a rough road right head.

1:05:56.920 --> 1:05:58.160
<v Speaker 4>Which he needs. That's why he needs to go to

1:05:58.200 --> 1:05:58.680
<v Speaker 4>a se set.

1:05:58.720 --> 1:05:59.960
<v Speaker 2>And that's by the way, I feel like that sayings

1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:04.080
<v Speaker 2>use a lot of cheaters use we've been together a

1:06:04.160 --> 1:06:06.960
<v Speaker 2>whole live and never got to experience other women that

1:06:07.080 --> 1:06:10.880
<v Speaker 2>sort of thing. Yeah, yeah, but it's no different than

1:06:10.880 --> 1:06:12.520
<v Speaker 2>any other in fidelity.

1:06:12.600 --> 1:06:14.960
<v Speaker 4>I'll say this, and I remember now you rereading that

1:06:15.000 --> 1:06:16.200
<v Speaker 4>part what I want to say when we got this

1:06:16.240 --> 1:06:19.680
<v Speaker 4>email last week. You didn't have time that whole I

1:06:19.680 --> 1:06:23.840
<v Speaker 4>didn't get to experience. Tell you relay this message your husband.

1:06:24.480 --> 1:06:29.280
<v Speaker 4>That experience is not worth any of it. That experience sucks.

1:06:29.600 --> 1:06:36.440
<v Speaker 4>It's empty, it's miserable, it's lonely, and it's depressing. Now

1:06:36.880 --> 1:06:39.080
<v Speaker 4>it's hard for people to hear that from somebody else,

1:06:39.120 --> 1:06:41.120
<v Speaker 4>be like, yeah, well, because you experience you say that nice,

1:06:41.120 --> 1:06:44.720
<v Speaker 4>so they think they want to experience it. Effing it sucks.

1:06:45.720 --> 1:06:47.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's not worth it. You've got a baby on

1:06:47.360 --> 1:06:49.120
<v Speaker 2>the way here. There's not a family here that you're

1:06:49.120 --> 1:06:50.160
<v Speaker 2>going to destroy.

1:06:50.480 --> 1:06:53.600
<v Speaker 4>And it's not worth that that life isn't going to

1:06:53.680 --> 1:06:56.280
<v Speaker 4>make you happier than your wife, than your kids, or

1:06:56.320 --> 1:06:56.960
<v Speaker 4>anything like that.

1:06:57.000 --> 1:06:59.240
<v Speaker 1>Again, that's where it's there's something so much deeper than

1:06:59.280 --> 1:07:02.400
<v Speaker 1>just going to a gamble, right, It falls deeper than that.

1:07:02.720 --> 1:07:03.960
<v Speaker 5>All right, This is from Brittany.

1:07:04.000 --> 1:07:06.520
<v Speaker 2>My fiance and I were actually at your live podcast

1:07:06.560 --> 1:07:09.840
<v Speaker 2>here in LA. I wanted to ask a question during

1:07:09.840 --> 1:07:12.520
<v Speaker 2>the show, but my fiance gets embarrassed, so I refrained.

1:07:12.600 --> 1:07:15.000
<v Speaker 2>After we left, he opened up and said, we have

1:07:15.000 --> 1:07:17.480
<v Speaker 2>a lot of issues. We just got engaged and have

1:07:17.480 --> 1:07:19.240
<v Speaker 2>started to plan the wedding. We are stuck in a

1:07:19.320 --> 1:07:22.280
<v Speaker 2>very difficult spot. My fiance is religious and I am not.

1:07:22.840 --> 1:07:24.760
<v Speaker 2>I want to get married outdoors, but it's important to

1:07:24.800 --> 1:07:26.920
<v Speaker 2>him and his family to get married in the Catholic Church.

1:07:27.240 --> 1:07:28.680
<v Speaker 5>Neither one of us is budgeting.

1:07:29.120 --> 1:07:31.360
<v Speaker 2>I've suggested we go see a therapist, not only for

1:07:31.400 --> 1:07:33.680
<v Speaker 2>our other issues, but for this particular subject.

1:07:33.840 --> 1:07:36.080
<v Speaker 5>He says, we can't afford to see a therapist. What

1:07:36.080 --> 1:07:36.520
<v Speaker 5>do we do?

1:07:37.280 --> 1:07:39.400
<v Speaker 1>Well? First of all, thanks for coming to our live podcast.

1:07:39.440 --> 1:07:44.600
<v Speaker 1>Brett Brett not affording to be able to go to

1:07:44.600 --> 1:07:48.360
<v Speaker 1>a therapist, I think is something where you need to

1:07:49.320 --> 1:07:53.720
<v Speaker 1>budget because there are therapists that do take insurance, so

1:07:53.880 --> 1:07:58.560
<v Speaker 1>I think, and also, okay, maybe we just budget out

1:07:58.600 --> 1:08:01.240
<v Speaker 1>the month where you kind of it because it's important

1:08:01.320 --> 1:08:04.840
<v Speaker 1>and being saying that, I understand it can be expensive.

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<v Speaker 4>I do.

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<v Speaker 1>I do have empathy for that. But at the same time,

1:08:09.520 --> 1:08:13.960
<v Speaker 1>it's your marriage, and you need to talk to somebody

1:08:14.040 --> 1:08:18.840
<v Speaker 1>and sit down because it's you know, it's important, it's

1:08:18.840 --> 1:08:21.439
<v Speaker 1>your marriage. Just because you know, saying that we candn't

1:08:21.479 --> 1:08:23.880
<v Speaker 1>afford it, your wedding's going to be expensive. So maybe

1:08:23.920 --> 1:08:25.840
<v Speaker 1>cut down on one thing so you can go see

1:08:25.840 --> 1:08:29.560
<v Speaker 1>a therapist, right instead of having a cake do cupcakes?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, and then to cut down on costs

1:08:31.439 --> 1:08:33.519
<v Speaker 1>so that way you can see a therapist, because you

1:08:33.560 --> 1:08:36.960
<v Speaker 1>won't have the successful marriage if you don't. If you

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<v Speaker 1>have if you have all these issues and the only

1:08:39.320 --> 1:08:41.040
<v Speaker 1>reason you're not going is because you don't have the money,

1:08:41.120 --> 1:08:44.479
<v Speaker 1>that's that's not a reason in my personal opinion.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean, again, we're empathetic to the fact that

1:08:47.240 --> 1:08:51.360
<v Speaker 4>it is expensive. We totally understand that. And but again,

1:08:51.400 --> 1:08:53.600
<v Speaker 4>like Janna said, break down your expenses for that, for

1:08:53.880 --> 1:08:55.679
<v Speaker 4>how they are monthly, be like, all right, we can

1:08:56.439 --> 1:08:59.280
<v Speaker 4>not eat out this many times because we want to

1:08:59.360 --> 1:09:01.519
<v Speaker 4>use that money too, see a therapist. Whatever it is.

1:09:04.040 --> 1:09:05.520
<v Speaker 4>It's tough that issue.

1:09:06.960 --> 1:09:08.320
<v Speaker 1>I feel like we kind of ran into this a

1:09:08.360 --> 1:09:14.200
<v Speaker 1>little bit because your your family's more religious, right.

1:09:14.040 --> 1:09:15.439
<v Speaker 4>But I didn't care about getting married in.

1:09:15.439 --> 1:09:20.840
<v Speaker 1>Church, right, but I know your family cared about it.

1:09:20.920 --> 1:09:24.080
<v Speaker 1>Maybe do an outdoor reception, Yeah, like an outdoor reception

1:09:24.160 --> 1:09:25.439
<v Speaker 1>and just kind of meet in the middle.

1:09:25.520 --> 1:09:28.960
<v Speaker 4>That's interesting, you know, because that is Unfortunately, it is

1:09:29.040 --> 1:09:33.479
<v Speaker 4>tough because and just look at it this way. A church,

1:09:33.560 --> 1:09:37.280
<v Speaker 4>depending on the venue, can still be very beautiful, gorgeous, gorgeous.

1:09:37.360 --> 1:09:39.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, maybe maybe it would rain the day that you

1:09:39.840 --> 1:09:40.960
<v Speaker 1>were going to be outside.

1:09:40.800 --> 1:09:44.760
<v Speaker 4>Right, you know, maybe so maybe because it just says

1:09:44.760 --> 1:09:47.160
<v Speaker 4>get married in the Catholic Church, not necessarily their church.

1:09:47.479 --> 1:09:51.439
<v Speaker 4>So find a beautiful Catholic cathedral near you or with

1:09:51.479 --> 1:09:54.679
<v Speaker 4>something like that. Find something that's gorgeous that will do weddings,

1:09:55.840 --> 1:09:56.960
<v Speaker 4>and do it there.

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<v Speaker 2>But this is gonna have to be compromising. Yeah, I'm

1:09:59.640 --> 1:10:01.200
<v Speaker 2>moving forward in all things.

1:10:01.240 --> 1:10:03.559
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's the thing. I'm like, there, maybe this is

1:10:03.560 --> 1:10:05.960
<v Speaker 1>something a little bit bigger than inside outside. Yes, it

1:10:06.000 --> 1:10:09.200
<v Speaker 1>seems like when you say other issues with issues and

1:10:09.400 --> 1:10:12.960
<v Speaker 1>quotations that seems to not be about the church. Let's

1:10:12.960 --> 1:10:13.360
<v Speaker 1>just say that.

1:10:13.280 --> 1:10:14.880
<v Speaker 2>You're gonna be raising kids. You don't want to be

1:10:14.880 --> 1:10:17.519
<v Speaker 2>fighting about that every Sunday morning. You don't want to battle.

1:10:17.800 --> 1:10:19.559
<v Speaker 1>Let me tell you save up the money for therapy,

1:10:19.600 --> 1:10:23.800
<v Speaker 1>because when you do get married, got to go to therapy, all.

1:10:23.840 --> 1:10:27.760
<v Speaker 2>Right, Taylor, And this one's last one. My boyfriend and

1:10:27.800 --> 1:10:29.240
<v Speaker 2>I have been together for two and a half years.

1:10:29.240 --> 1:10:31.320
<v Speaker 2>We lived together, and he bought a car six months

1:10:31.360 --> 1:10:34.360
<v Speaker 2>ago that we share. Last week, I got rear ended.

1:10:34.680 --> 1:10:37.400
<v Speaker 2>It was not my fault. The other person had insurance. However,

1:10:38.200 --> 1:10:41.080
<v Speaker 2>when I told my boyfriend, his first question was were

1:10:41.080 --> 1:10:44.840
<v Speaker 2>you on the phone? And his second question was is

1:10:44.880 --> 1:10:48.479
<v Speaker 2>the car okay? He didn't even ask me if I

1:10:48.560 --> 1:10:51.639
<v Speaker 2>was okay. He was extremely mad at me and hung

1:10:51.720 --> 1:10:55.200
<v Speaker 2>up on me. Oh, it was a pretty dramatic experience

1:10:55.200 --> 1:10:57.280
<v Speaker 2>that shook me up. And it's just a car. It's

1:10:57.280 --> 1:11:00.800
<v Speaker 2>a generic sedan, it's nothing fancy. When I told my

1:11:00.800 --> 1:11:03.639
<v Speaker 2>boyfriend how mad I was, his response was I've worked

1:11:03.640 --> 1:11:05.840
<v Speaker 2>my ass off for that car. My blood, sweat and

1:11:05.920 --> 1:11:08.439
<v Speaker 2>tears to earn that car. I feel like we're not

1:11:08.439 --> 1:11:09.920
<v Speaker 2>going to see eyed eye on this. Am I in

1:11:09.960 --> 1:11:10.280
<v Speaker 2>the wrong?

1:11:11.520 --> 1:11:13.519
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you're not in the wrong for asking that.

1:11:13.640 --> 1:11:15.680
<v Speaker 1>He should have asked if you were okay? I mean

1:11:15.720 --> 1:11:19.160
<v Speaker 1>you got to a car accident. I can understand a

1:11:19.200 --> 1:11:21.519
<v Speaker 1>man's passion for his car. I mean, like if I

1:11:21.600 --> 1:11:24.679
<v Speaker 1>leave a gum wrapper in Mike's car, like he loses

1:11:24.760 --> 1:11:28.320
<v Speaker 1>his mind. If I leave water bottles. I mean like

1:11:28.360 --> 1:11:33.280
<v Speaker 1>he's men men in their cars. It's like their prize possession.

1:11:33.400 --> 1:11:37.080
<v Speaker 1>But and we should be their prize possessions. But you know,

1:11:37.360 --> 1:11:41.360
<v Speaker 1>do you just that's a tough one because again, I

1:11:41.439 --> 1:11:43.280
<v Speaker 1>know how much you love your car. But at the

1:11:43.280 --> 1:11:45.040
<v Speaker 1>same time, I feel like you would still ask if

1:11:45.080 --> 1:11:50.160
<v Speaker 1>I was okay, if I if I hurt your truck. Yeah, oh,

1:11:50.640 --> 1:11:53.000
<v Speaker 1>clearly Mike doesn't believe this, Taylor.

1:11:53.400 --> 1:11:55.280
<v Speaker 4>No, I know I would. The first thing I'd ask

1:11:55.320 --> 1:11:56.200
<v Speaker 4>is are you okay?

1:11:56.640 --> 1:11:57.920
<v Speaker 1>And then also how bad's my car?

1:11:58.400 --> 1:12:02.360
<v Speaker 4>Yes, it would be it would be difficult to have

1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:05.120
<v Speaker 4>an appropriate length pause in between these two questions.

1:12:07.280 --> 1:12:07.840
<v Speaker 9>Jesus.

1:12:08.040 --> 1:12:10.360
<v Speaker 4>But I'm just I'm just being honest. I'm just you know,

1:12:10.439 --> 1:12:13.600
<v Speaker 4>I would, I would genuinely care because and that's the

1:12:13.600 --> 1:12:15.519
<v Speaker 4>thing he should realize. A car is just a car.

1:12:16.200 --> 1:12:19.040
<v Speaker 4>You can replace that. I understand, work hard for it,

1:12:19.280 --> 1:12:21.880
<v Speaker 4>worked your ass off to pay for it, get that,

1:12:23.080 --> 1:12:25.800
<v Speaker 4>but it's replaceable. Your girlfriend is.

1:12:25.720 --> 1:12:29.040
<v Speaker 1>Not, or well maybe in his mind it is you

1:12:29.120 --> 1:12:29.639
<v Speaker 1>are dealer.

1:12:29.800 --> 1:12:32.559
<v Speaker 4>No, that's he should have I mean.

1:12:32.640 --> 1:12:34.360
<v Speaker 1>You should have said if you're okay. That's not very nice,

1:12:34.360 --> 1:12:35.519
<v Speaker 1>and you know what, you should go to him and

1:12:35.520 --> 1:12:37.760
<v Speaker 1>from a very empathetic place and be like, hey, I

1:12:37.760 --> 1:12:39.559
<v Speaker 1>am really sorry about your car, but I want you

1:12:39.560 --> 1:12:41.960
<v Speaker 1>to hurt my feelings that you didn't even ask if

1:12:41.960 --> 1:12:43.599
<v Speaker 1>I was okay, So just come to him and talk

1:12:43.600 --> 1:12:44.599
<v Speaker 1>to him from a good place.

1:12:44.439 --> 1:12:46.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and validate. I understand that you work really.

1:12:46.760 --> 1:12:49.120
<v Speaker 1>Hard for his car, and I'm so sorry. I honestly,

1:12:49.240 --> 1:12:51.840
<v Speaker 1>it's not like she meant to freaking nothing wrong. It's

1:12:51.880 --> 1:12:53.320
<v Speaker 1>not like she meant to freaking do it.

1:12:53.640 --> 1:12:57.440
<v Speaker 4>And I will say she said she was rear ended. Yeah,

1:12:57.479 --> 1:13:01.040
<v Speaker 4>so that's her fault, right, so that I can understand

1:13:01.040 --> 1:13:02.920
<v Speaker 4>if she ran it in the back of somebody, Yeah,

1:13:03.160 --> 1:13:05.920
<v Speaker 4>I would. That's when I'll definitely be like, are you okay, okay,

1:13:05.920 --> 1:13:08.120
<v Speaker 4>you're fine? Were you on your phone? Like, what were

1:13:08.120 --> 1:13:10.160
<v Speaker 4>you doing right, because that pissed me off.

1:13:10.240 --> 1:13:10.360
<v Speaker 8>Right.

1:13:10.400 --> 1:13:14.240
<v Speaker 4>She's rerounded, right, So yeah, Taylor, you have every right

1:13:14.280 --> 1:13:16.439
<v Speaker 4>to be pissed off at him for being pissed off

1:13:16.439 --> 1:13:19.160
<v Speaker 4>of you. In case you guys didn't know, Dunkin Donuts

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1:14:06.640 --> 1:14:07.360
<v Speaker 1>That was a good show.

1:14:07.800 --> 1:14:08.599
<v Speaker 4>How are you feeling?

1:14:09.080 --> 1:14:10.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm so tired?

1:14:10.600 --> 1:14:11.280
<v Speaker 4>Is that what it is?

1:14:11.479 --> 1:14:12.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm pretty tired.

1:14:12.800 --> 1:14:15.240
<v Speaker 4>Okay, yeah, because I know, like you know, some of

1:14:15.280 --> 1:14:17.960
<v Speaker 4>the stuff talking to Jason and Shelley, you know, brings

1:14:18.040 --> 1:14:21.120
<v Speaker 4>up stuff. Yeah, but I felt some Well.

1:14:21.000 --> 1:14:23.719
<v Speaker 1>No, it's hard. I don't. Honestly, I think I'm I'm

1:14:23.760 --> 1:14:25.680
<v Speaker 1>so tired. I could like ball my eyes out right

1:14:25.720 --> 1:14:27.559
<v Speaker 1>now because I think there's a lot of emotions, but

1:14:27.600 --> 1:14:31.160
<v Speaker 1>I think the majority that is I'm just tired. So

1:14:31.280 --> 1:14:33.799
<v Speaker 1>when I'm tired, maybe I could eat more triggered easily,

1:14:33.920 --> 1:14:34.639
<v Speaker 1>because I can.

1:14:34.520 --> 1:14:36.559
<v Speaker 4>Tell you've held back some emotion.

1:14:36.960 --> 1:14:39.120
<v Speaker 1>It's because I yeah, it's because I think I'm just

1:14:39.120 --> 1:14:41.639
<v Speaker 1>like overtired, and I don't want to like cry fast

1:14:41.680 --> 1:14:45.360
<v Speaker 1>right now on wine down. So I'm good, overwhelmed because

1:14:45.600 --> 1:14:48.280
<v Speaker 1>everything's good. We're good. It's just you know, I think

1:14:48.280 --> 1:14:50.519
<v Speaker 1>when I'm tired, maybe more things come up for me.

1:14:51.360 --> 1:14:52.840
<v Speaker 1>But I am thanks.

1:14:52.600 --> 1:14:55.280
<v Speaker 4>Man, more things come up for you, And I'm here

1:14:55.280 --> 1:14:56.200
<v Speaker 4>for you. If you want to talk.

1:14:56.080 --> 1:14:57.720
<v Speaker 1>Later, yeah, I'll probably cry later.

1:14:58.400 --> 1:15:01.640
<v Speaker 4>Okay, We're gonna have a right later wind out. You

1:15:02.000 --> 1:15:02.800
<v Speaker 4>guys want to join us

1:15:12.040 --> 1:15:12.519
<v Speaker 6>M HMM,